Springfield .22 Rimfire 1911 Pistol Conversions
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- Опубликовано: 9 апр 2017
- Almost immediately after adopting the Colt/Browning Model 1911 pistol, the US military requested a .22LR conversion for training purposes. In 1913 Springfield Arsenal developed a conversion, but it was woefully inadequate. A better solution was submitted by a man named J.H. Carl, whose system matched the weigh and balance of the .45 caliber 1911 and also duplicated its functions, including locking open on empty magazines. Carl submitted his design to Springfield, which began to make a small batch for testing in 1915.
World War One interrupted the process, and it was put on hold until late 1918, at which point a series of trials found ongoing nagging reliability issues. Ultimately the project was put on indefinite hold in 1924 when Colt's plan to market a commercial .22 conversion of the 1911 were discovered, as that was deemed a more cost-effective solution than having the Arsenal perfect Carl's system.
Only a few dozen of these .22 Gallery Practice Pistols were made and only a small handful remain today, as they were officially scrapped in 1938.
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"This... thing in Europe..." Best description of World War One I have ever heard :-)
Funny, in the Netherlands the expression "Walked out the door" translates as "fell off the truck" for stolen goods
In Australia we tend to say something "fell off the back of a truck"
When your father said you must have fallen off of a turnip truck he didn't mean you were stolen.
I've heard that one in America too. Or it got 'lost' in air quotations lol
I hear "It grew legs" said a lot in southwest us
@stechus kaktus: Not really :D
forgotten weapons but everytime its a pistol .22 Rimfire comes in
I'm sure Gun Jesus akimbo'd them off camera.
I always very much enjoy the technical depth and disassembly of the guns you do. It is interesting to see how many parts a gun has, how they work and how they are put together. A lot of people just know that you stick bullets in and that they somehow get fired out.
Over the last several months, there has not been a day that has gone by without me watching a Forgotten Weapons video. Thank you Ian for all the work you do, not just on camera, but off as well. I would assume that most of these videos would require hours of research.
Your research is always fantastic, keep up the good work!
Of all the channel I am subscribed to , this is by far my favourite !!!
The Colt ACE came in 1931. In 1978 I bought a COLT new model ACE. I later traded it and two other guns for the then very popular S&W model 29 6 inch blue with the presentation case which I still have, my favorite to this day.
I love the 22LR, it's a great training round for the fundamentals, and even though it's stupidly expensive anymore it's still cheaper per round than anything else. Also the weird Malfs that .22's have can be looked at as a training aid on clearing a gun.
I love 22LR, I own about 10 guns, and still love shooting my 22s
@@stefanmolnapor910 boo, only 10 guns.
@@gregdaweson4657 😅😂😅😂 I agree! I wish I had more 😟😤😢
"sir, the uh pistols are uh almost ready to go, just need your signature."
"hmmm..."
"hey guys, colt's making a .22lr conversion for these pistols, isn't that neat?"
So amazing I think I'm in love with them
Very clever conversion!
I like that little epilogue at the beginning. Nice polish for the video
I suspect that 'lost' really means 'walked out the door'. I'm unsure how you lose an experimental firearm.
Geez. Been watching for days. Hours and hours of guns
Ian u da best
J.H. Carl had a pretty simple solution that no one in the gun market seemed to figure out.
That slide is so cool! Cutting the rifling must have been a nightmare, though...
You've got the best job ever...
That is a brilliant design with many features which should make an accurate .22 pistol. Barrel set low to minimize the already low recoil. The control rod housing below which would keep everything stiff. Sights attached straight to the slide/ barrel assembly which is not actually a slide because it doesn't move which is also a benefit. That design of breechbolt removal is also ingenious.
As for as I can see it was probably the dodgy converted magazine setup that led to feeding problems.
If someone was to commercialize and sell this as a conversion with a properly designed magazine I think they would do well.
A video on the tokagypt 58 would be interesting.
Thats dope yo.
Could you do a video on the Colt pistol mentioned here? I'd like to see how the Colts compared to these
You know with the big auctions coming up a lot of the guns have amazing stories , any of them in this batch worth doing a video on. like last sale there was that gold engraved walther for a occupying US officer , would have loved to see a video just talking about that one (i understand you prob could not have access too those guns tho)
The "4" in serial number 24 isn't backwards, although it appears that way. The number die was placed incorrectly into the die holder and it has been rotated 90 degrees clockwise.
cz does a cadet slide for the 75 that works the same just about. training with the same frame in 22 does help as trigger and all the other functions are the same
I wonder if the "4" was added to the "24" after the ejection port was modified? since the bolt is number "2", and the "4" looks vertical stamped... just an observation.
1911 Junior
interesting pistol.
I can't imagine a .22 short working at all.
I have a Springfield semi-auto rifle that will shoot .22 short, long, and long rifle just fine. Even says this on the side of the barrel.
Donald Weber Springfield 67a? I have the same rifle! Great gun. That being said there is a lot more mass in a handgun slide than a rifle bolt.
Springfield 87A. Nothing says the entire slide of a handgun has to move. Look at Ruger Mark IV, Smith & Wesson 22A, Browning Buckmark. All just have small bolts that reciprocate.
looks like it can switch ejection side with a simpe ejector replacement, is this the case?
a couple of years ago when 22 ammo was impossible to get, and i wanted to shoot my new 45 in the back yard (wife nixed that) I bought a CO2 powered BB gun. and shot to my hearts content.
It worked just like my Range officer, all controls the same, except for the slide which had a very weak spring and moved only about 1/2 inch.
tons of fun.
I love Ians beautiful cleft! Do you know the one I'm referring to?
Looks like the 4 in the SN is rotated 90 degrees, which makes it look backwards. Not hard for someone to do while hand-stamping.
Did you ever had a chance to look at Blum training machine gun?
that barrel, its so tight.
Brad Willey like ur mum
How did they rifle this? I can't imagine that it's cut rifling, and I can't imagine that it's cut rifling. Maybe they broached it. But it's still surprising considering the rest shape of the part
Did the military ever buy any Colt Ace pistols? Its floating chamber seems like an ingenious solution.
There was an ad before this video.. monetization woes straightened out?
For me, at least, they were never shut off, just reduced dramatically in quantity.
Jesus, something came out of gilroy other than garlic?? Wow..
About the serial number, maybe the stamper just had accidentally misaligned number 4 by 90 degrees? 8:24
I'm way too early, damn It!
That 4 in "24" looks like someone turned the punch at 90 degrees and thought "Screw it, you can tell that's a 4."
Is the 4 backwards or is it turned 90° clockwise?
From a man from Gilroy, fascinating; is it the same place known as "The Garlic Capitol of the World?
It looks more like the 4 was rotated 90 degrees clockwise, rather than being backwards.
At least you're still getting ad revenue on this channel.... I had an ad for Magic: The Gathering.
Having fired a lot of 22 pistols, I would say that the bolt looks too small and light, so it probably had a very fast action, which was simply too fast for the magazine spring.
I fired another 1911 22 conversion, I can't remember who made it but it was European, and that didn't work either.
Do 1903 hamerless
That is what I shot in boot-camp in 1986.
How about pistol type 86 from thailand also clone m1911
praise gun Jesus
K.T.C. Chirpythunder Ow lawd!
That's capital g Gun Jesus. I'll give you the small jay out of respect to the nonexistent small el lord formerly known as the BBIIGG el LORD.
I wish someone would make an all metal 1911 like the colt ace again I'm not into those composite (plastic) German made ones that colt and others pass off now
This is making me feel really dumb but... how does the bolt spring back forwards if the guide rod moves with the bolt?
JC captive recoil spring.. don't sweat it, no question is a dumb one
I had to think about it for a bit, too. There must be a ledge in the slide close to the bolt that holds the spring, so the bolt pulls that whole rod back to compress the spring.
Why did he vent to the military instead of trying to sell it to Colt?
Firstly, thank you, Ian, for your work on this great video on these firearms and the many like them - you are always appreciated.
However, I always have the same question for firearms like this:
In what way does providing a system like this (a .22 rimfire version of the M1911 .45ACP pistol) to troops over a standard M1911 pistol, for training, provide?
In the end you do get lessened cost in providing troops with a similar pistol to train with, as well as an easier manner to practice.
However, shooting an M1911 pistol and shooting a pistol in the style of the M1911, chambered in .22(LR) caliber are completely different affairs. Just because you're able to shoot a pistol shaped like an M1911 does not mean that you would be capable of shooting an actual M1911 pistol
At what point does lowering the level of skill in order to be proficient with a pistol mean that a shooter is proficient with a pistol?
As a 1911 fanboy, I will readily admit that the 1911 is the easiest pistol to learn to shoot on. However, if it is made to be a recoiless pussycat, it is an affront to both the shooter and the teacher.
How much can be gained by shooting a replicant of the standard pistol that has been chambered in what is essentially a child's caliber? What happens to proper grip, stance, and most importantly, recoil management?
So what if you can mag-dump a .22LR pistol into a target 25 yards away, when the pistol in use moves less than a Frenchman living next to a brothel.
Any sort of training ought to be done on the firearm in question, with the full caliber said firearm is chambered in - be it a .45 ACP M1911 or a 40mm RPG-7.
It just seems that any other training is worthless.
Giving a .45 to a novice shooter is a recipe for lifelong flinching and bad habits. The point of a .22 is to allow people to learn proper fundamentals without the recoil, so that they can later move up to a more powerful cartridge with a basic skillset already in place. It also reduces ammunition costs.
You're correct, and I conceded that in my original post, it just seems like it'd be unnecessary in a military application. Maybe I just have a warped sense of reality, my first handgun was (and still is!) chambered in .455 Webley.
Sure it sucked to learn to shoot on and the learning was hard, but I made it work.
.22LR is much cheaper and more available than .455 Webley, though.
Forgotten Weapons can agree. First pistol is a 1911. Shot a glock today and I was flinching left and right.
did you guys demonetize the forgotten weapons videos too? I want to know if I should turn adblock on or off for you guys.
you tube is screwing around with gun channels adverts cos "reasons" from what ive heard on IV8888
Quentin Tubb it's not just gun channels, it is literally everyone. Even educational science channels with nothing remotely controversial are getting impacted by this.
If you're enjoying people's content for free on RUclips, then you should turn Adblock off for all of it. Or are you the only person who deserves to be paid for their work?
I haven't noticed a down tick on the science and educational videos yet, but it doesn't. surprise me.
I did not, but I may in a couple months, depending on how the experiment with InRange goes.
The Springfield Armory Museum still has one or two of these in their inventory, a least on display, iirc.
Huh, I forgot the Model H-D didn't enter service until the 1940s.
Ian, Being a new Pateron supporter to InRange, I just wanted to let you know that this video has been monetized.
Kind of an early 22/45, maybe not great for military but I'd say they were on to something if they were looking to make money.
someone should remake these slides and sell them with a clip.
every couple of mags it doesn't quite feed right or doesn't quite extract right ....
so it's a perfect 1911 ^^
I mean a 45 converted to 22, probably nothing like these.
I have a 22 converted 1911 but not made this way .
too bad they didn't try something like 32 or equivalent. of course those caliber ranges would have led to other issues. I guess
damn, thats one simple gun conversion. too bad it was not made "perfect"
No "Hey Guys"? My PTSD, OCD, and Schizophrenia is going off
That gun looks like it needs to be cleaned
Daym ,im early !
Hmpf - how can using .22 train you to use the real thing (other than basic marksmanship a full caliber gun is different and shoots different)...still, interesting!
DreamingFlurry Exactly that. For new recruits that have never fired a pistol, shooting a .22 is just as effective at practicing basic pistol skills. Save on a bigger more capable range and ammo costs, plus get people familiarized without the recoil and noise of a larger cartridge.
Why didn't they asked colt to make them some .22 1911 in the first place :v ?
Was was was then then was was
Ok, Sig has made a 1911-22, why couldn't people do that back in the day?
Because this was being done 2 years after the 1911 was actually invented? Companies today have over a hundred years of other peoples' experience to work from.
early
The idea around this seemed pretty stupid. Not much of a point training in .22lr considering a .45 ACP is extremely different with recoil.
The recoil may be different, but literally everything else is the same or close enough to not be noticeably different - that's literally the whole point to guns like this. Training on something that looks, feels, and functions identically to your EDC or standard-issue firearm while not breaking the bank if you decide to burn through 500 rounds in a single outing.
train = start with
It doesn't mean you are never then trained on the .45. Is it really so hard for people to grasp this concept?
You learn to drive a car by starting in an empty parking lot, not by getting on the nearest freeway.
1. Besides cost, many National Guard armories had indoor ranges so marksmanship training could be conducted during the "other eleven months of the year" as well as at Annual Training aka "Summer Camp" 2. Beyond the absolute basics, which could have been taught on a conventional target pistol, I have to question the logic behind these pistols. The flash, blast and recoil of a .22LR round is nothing like that of a .45 ACP round - so going to great lengths to simulate the weight and feel of a M1911 seems like wasted effort.
ROBERT NABORNEY Why shouldn’t the absolute basics be taught on this pistol, though? If you’re buying enough pistols to equip an entire training establishment it shouldn’t be far different from buying a different commercial target pistol.
These guns are blasphemy against the gospel of Browning.
1911 in .22 ? That's just dumb
.22 LR conversions are quit popular. There are even 1911's designed from the ground up to shoot .22 LR. Just about every army prior to WWII had .22LR versions of their standard service rifle for training purposes. It is actually a pretty smart idea for training.
Maybe it's for self defense in neighborhoods with strict noise ordinances.
You mean I can't pop a few 50 BMG rounds into some tin cans in the backyard of my quiet suburban neighborhood? Dang. :p
my point is that there are good pistols specifically designed for .22
its so you can just teach everyone to use one gun then it doesn't matter what they get in the end.