@@karlzhu6112 If you mean some sort of official romanization, sure, that didn't happen until Hanyu Pinyin in the 1950s. But indigenous Chinese romanization systems go back at least to1892 by Lu Zhuangzhang. Foreign romanization goes back even further, as early as 1583, and the first to be widely used, Wade-Giles, was in 1859 (giving us the awful Peking instead of Beijng and kungfu instead of gongfu). And even if this is just a coincidence, what a fun coincidence!
I like to imagine that coming up as the murder weapon in, like, a Poirot mystery, and just listening to David Suchet saying 'BELGIQUE' over and over again for half a minute while describing it.
HAO means “good” so I guess it means “Alright, you’re good to put this gun away” and “105” means “You can fire 105 rounds before this thing explodes and removes your hand”
As a mechanical engineering student in college who has just spent the two past semesters in the machine shop, I can say that these guns look incredible for being made by people who don't know much about guns and in some cases made by people with very little in the realm of professional education. I would be super proud of myself if I succeeded in manufacturing something of that quality level at this point in my education.
***** Education is very useful in terms of quality. I could make a working handgun in our machine shop, easy. But it wouldn't look nearly as good as these.
RiflemanOfTheNorth i think they look amazing for what they are as well (2 year graduate from MCCTC for precision machining, soon entering 3rd year in mechanical engineering at YSU)
Have you considered, that the warlord who ordered the third gun may actually have wanted a bayonet mounted on a pistol? Certainly would look badass. I thought it looked a bit used.
Imagine you dual-wielding the gun against bunch of knives-using thugs, and when the ammo runs out, you jam in a bayonet from the waist holster and dual-wield a bayonet gun-kata. Sounds like something chinese martial arts film will have tbh
Commander: FIX BAYONETS Soldier: Sir, all I have is a pistol Commander: I DON’T CARE, FIX BAYONETS Soldier: *presents to charge with a bayonet on his pistol*
Just look at Type 56 Automatic Rifles and Type 56 Semiautomatic Rifles, which are copied from AK and SKS respectively with proper factories and tools and blueprints from USSR.
"There's virtually nothing in the way of written resources about these guns." Because people who attempted to write something down near a warlord's firearms factory got shot.
You're right about the tattoos. My girlfriend is Japanese and she often points out that tattoos we see are incorrect or completely nonsensical. We don't tell the blokes, because, well, they're pretty big blokes and I don't want to waste their time...
7:30 to 8:18. Full respect to you Ian. Thank you for handling, reviewing and treating all these firearms with a level of respect and consideration of historical reasons that most people don't have. These guns might not be safe to shoot for very long, but hey they were the best someone could get their hands on at the time. Definitely better than walking around bare hand when there were warlords, bandits, and other chaotic things happening around.
I love it! I would have LOVED to be one of the Chinese salesmen selling these to other Chinese people. "And of course you see, the notched protrusion that you see on all of the authentic German Mauser rifles is included for FREE on your pistol." Ahh, I see sir, and what is the function? "Rifle-like accuracy of course! The Germans didn't put anything on the rifle that didn't contribute to it's accuracy."
I think you dont get one think: they were clearly unable to read word "German" or "Mauser" so is highly unlikely that they knowed anything about German guns quality or accuracy. They trying to mimik look of good guns thats all.
Years ago in Taiwan, I often saw an embroidered Harley-Davidson style eagle on the back of a jacket with random letters instead of words. I guess they didn't care because few locals could could have read the English words.
I had a collection of shirts that I purchased in Taiwan with various gibberish printed on them. The most coherent one says "Televised Executions", another one is a sweater with the alphabet on it like some kind of pre-school classroom poster, except Cyrillic letters are randomly mixed into the Latin ones. I lost them after they stopped fitting me so I can't remember what the rest of them said, all I remember is that they were amusing and *extremely* inexpensive, like 30-50 TWD IIRC which is around 1 USD.
too bad they didn't focus on revolvers, a much easier concept to explain to a person who has never used a gun so the resulting product would probably have better function.
They seem to have made these to market them to fool the customer that they are legitimate european pistols. If they made revolvers, the whole cool factor would go away and they would get much less for their work I suppose.
@Perry Martel China was a mess at the time. From early 1900 to 1947 China was in a perpetual state of civil war. The warlords Ian mention would rule over entiere regions of China. At this point in history only a few parts of China were industrialized, and (as it still is today) many parts of China were very rural and have little to no heavy industry. It's more than likely that in this context, the makers of those guns would be given only one gun to work with, possibly a jammed or broken one since for a warlord it was too precious to leave even one handgun unused for too long. Or more likely, the better skilled artisans were given "real" guns, copied them, and the less skilled ones received only the copies, therefore degrading the quality of the gun on the way down.
@@ferwiner2 They likely were not intended to fool the customer, but rather to present as authentic enough to an untrained observer who isn't directly handling the gun. Knock-offs in Asia are for projecting status far more often than they are an attempt to cheat customers.
@@kongsinchi1976 I would disagree that a revolver is easier to build than a simple blowback pistol. The only fidgety parts on a blowback operated guns are the extractor and the magazine feed lips, both of which is can be hand adjusted with a little patience (that is to say you don't need precision machines, you need moderate manual metalworking skills). The combined barrel/chamber is far easier to machine to acceptable specs than the cylinder of a revolver on simple equipment. Even a single action revolver does not reduce moving parts because of the mechanisms needed to advance and lock the cylinder. The precision needed in the cylinder and advancing mechanism needed to keep the cylinder in time is not trivial, and not easy to hand adjust.
Imagine being at a gun range or something, training to use a gun for the first time, and by some inexplicable twist of fate you've been landed with one of these instead of a Beretta. Instructor: "Okay, so here's the safety selector. It has two positions marked on the gun, 'fire' and 'safe.' Now-" Unlucky Guy: "Uh, I don't think my gun has those..." Instructor: "Sure it does, it should be marked right next to that switch near your thumb." Guy: "Yeah, but mine doesn't have 'fire' and 'safe' on it." Instructor: "Well, what's it say on yours?" Guy: "Uhhh.... right now, mine's on 'Hao.' Should I switch it to 105 instead?" Instructor: "....What?" Guy: "That's what it says on mine, see?" Instructor: "..what the fuck kinda gun is that?" Guy: "Dunno, instead of a model or company name, it just has BELGIQUE stamped two dozen times instead." Instructor: "I don't think you should fire that thing." Guy: "Funny, I was thinking the same thing."
I'm thinking of some poor toolsmith doing his damnedest to reproduce this crazy tech he'd never seen before with a warlord over his shoulder threatening to cut off his fingers.
Ian, I love your videos. They're the most informational firearm videos on RUclips, and you're very knowledgeable on the subject, as well as have an incredible passion for what you do.
I like these videos too, Ian seems like a very knowledgeable but soft spoken kind of guy. I've learned alot since I started watching, I hope this channel stays up for a good long time. Keep up the good work Dude
Arthur Williams I remember reading something about how you can write certain hanzi with numbers, so maybe it actually does mean something. Who knows I stopped studying chinese many years ago.
Well good for fucking us. It's a good thing the world revolves around what you do and don't know so the rest of civilization knows what they should and should not know.
What kind of protective gear would you wear when you know the slide is going to shoot back in your face? Wouldn't it be better to clamp it in a vice and pull the trigger remotely?
Riot armor. Either way i´m thinking they would probably survive a magazine or two. People definitely fire them occasionally, probably not very much but if you have a gun for self defense you´ll want to practice with them at least once.
As an asian guy, I have to appreciate how you managed to show the markings under the light of sheer ignorance. It's rare to see someone actually appreciating the thought process of a guy in the middle of a war, trying to replicate something they have never quite understood.
7:14 Everybody knows safe is 105 and Hao is fire DUUUUUUUHHHH..........or is it the other way around...whatever. I give credit to the makers of these pistols. I don't think I could even make a pistol that even has movable parts. I could make a musket, I could probably make a musket.
greg Bilotta you could make a matchlock pretty easy, it's not hard. Even a wheellock isn't too tricky if you're mechanically minded... Semi-auto handgun? quite a bit trickier.
***** True, if you count the Luty in there. I.... don't really care for full auto or open bolt personally, so the extra work to make it Semi would be worth it for me (it's not a huge amount of extra work, but it is some), as would making it gas or recoil and not straight blowback. That being said, you can get extremely simple if you aren't so picky.
@@gregbilotta2472 Sorry for being 7 years late, but I think auction houses auction off many similar articles (firearms included) in the same auction because of an heir auctioning off some deceased collector's collection.
The word “Hao” exists in Chinese Pinyin, but this system was introduced in 1957. The spelling system that Chinese use back in 1920s was the Wade-Giles system, but the word “Hao” did not exist in that system. Also before 1949 the literacy rate in China was only about 5%-20%, so I would guess this gunsmith clearly didn’t know any of the European letters but put it on anyway just for fun/ decoration/ thought it was a rune that give the gun +1 attack damage
Some of them are clearly gun design by Cargo Cult. In the second of Robert Ludlum's Jason Bourne novels, Bourne buys a modern iteration of a high-quality Chinese Mystery Pistol in Hong Kong; basically a Chinese Mystery Wonder Nine. He uses it for most of the book IIRC. Regarding the ones that shoot 7.62 Tokarev, all I can think of is to wonder how many people got hold of a combination of such a pistol and some of the especially hot ammo meant for Soviet machine pistols, and then proceeded to have a particularly terrible day.
I've got a crazy theory on the decorative marks in the shallow rectangular pockets on the last pistol shown. Could it be that they were trying to reproduce the tooling marks you usually see in the pockets on broom handle Mausers?
this is one of my favorite videos on the channel because i absolutely love learning about all the weird and wild weapons, and this is an genuine grab bag of fun little misfits
My experience is the Chinese are excellent at reverse engineering and completely unaware of actual metallurgy including heat treating and steel properties.
Good, because the lack of heat treating and advanced chemistries is less likely to produce brittle steel that blow up in your face. If this is low carbon steel used in cleavers and hammers, it is actually close to shock steel used in firearms than say higher carbon stuff quenched or heat treated.
Well they had to have known a bit about heat treating and metallurgy because they used to make excellent swords and such, I just don't think they knew what metallurgy and heat treatment processes were good for firearms at this time...
This is probably my favorite video on this channel; Mostly because these guns are interesting pieces of early 20th century, amateur gunmaking in China, but also because they are the prime example that gunsmithing is a difficult thing to do and so many things can go wrong when inexperienced people try to do it.
Those last two "pistols" honestly look like something from Star Wars. Not surprising, considering most Star Wars guns are just WWII-era blank-firing guns with "sci-fi" stuff glued on.
I like Ian's all videos a lot, but these dealing with mystery guns and those presenting unique antique firearms are my favourites! Informative & intriguing.
Ian is such a cool guy. Even when reviewing some frankly rather shoddy pistols, he remains respectful & empathizes with the people that made these weapon a century ago
Cool pistols! Can't believe I missed this video the first time around. On the second pistol, at about the 6:59 mark or so, if you squint and stretch your imagination, it looks like the bottom line of text on the frame says, "SHOOTEMS" !!! LOL Great video, thanks, Ian!
The saddest part, to me, is that these people making these guns by hand, not knowing what they were doing but doing the best they could anyway, still had to pretend that the guns came from somewhere else. They obviously weren't worried about copyright laws, why not just put your own markings on it and show some national pride?
+DaaaahWhoosh Because marketing. If you're trying to sell them or pass them off as X brand, why not mark them as that? Not like anything would happen. Back then, the potential customers probably didn't know enough to say otherwise.
These pistols were built during the war when the Chinese armed forces were not only fighting against the invading Japanese, but also the Chinese Red Army (as it was then); they're certainly not made with the luxury of gun manufacturers elsewhere, but made under very trying conditions by anyone who could do a bit of machining to supply the burning demand of the armed forces.
Because us Chinese always believe that foreign made is better than chinese made. So, if you put your own markings on it the worst case scenario is nobody gonna buy it or it just worth half price or 1/3 of it's original foreign made guns...... But China during 1920s to 1940s were at war so as well as it function, people will buy it just for killing
You try to pass them off as imports because the Chinese knew as well as anyone else that they were not up to date on gun technology at this point. The same soldier who did not know enough about guns to tell that these were not genuine would still probably reject the gun if they knew that they were Chinese made. Add to that there was no national pride during this time period Chinese central government had completely collapsed and was basically in the middle of a civil war with at least 6 major and hundreds of minor factions.
Thanks a lot! I would never thought I can get so much information of Chinese made pistol in 20 mins! what a great channel, objective while interesting.
How's it ironic? They made something, someone else made it better, and they rushed to make knock offs because they couldn't make their own for whatever reason.
@@skycrater5726 The Chinese were very warlike and imperialistic, it's just that after a while - around the time of the Ming - a philosophical doctrine came to dominate their industry which basically said "we've already made everything that matters, nothing on the outside can hope to match the splendor of the interior", so they just stopped interacting with the world or innovating because they believed it would disrupt what they saw as their perfect, harmonious society. It's a lot like what happened with Japan
@@GeorgeMonet They did invent the firearm, it was called the "fire lance" and was a bamboo stick that would be filled with some gun powder and some hard objects such as porcelain shards - or lead pellets like in a modern shotgun. Also, they made grenades, explosive arrows (small grenades fired from a bow), and later rockets for military use. The rockets could deliver an explosive or incendiary charge, or a tear inducing powder (medieval crowd control? 😁). They also made cannons, hard evidence exists for the 13th century. All of this was extremely primitive by today's standards, of course, had a very limited range, and was quite unsafe to use, but for the time period, when the enemy most likely had bows and melee weapons, it would have been scary to go up against such an arsenal. When the Portuguese came to China in the 16th century, who by then had arquebuses, early muskets and Western cannons, they were unimpressed by the Chinese designs, though. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huolongjing
Awesome video as always, Ian. I was wondering if you ever get information as to what the "street price" is on these handmade knock-offs as compared to what the real factory pistol that it's patterned after would go for in the same area? I, for one would find that kind of bonus info. very interesting! Keep up the awesome work and I'll be looking forward to your next uploads.
I personally find the first pistol very appealing. The profile of the gun seems so sleek and I think that if it was altered by a high end manufacturer that it would have the potential to be a great gun.
I hope a cinema prop shop bought these. They'd really appreciate them, probably put them to better use than anyone, and they'd never, ever, ever let someone try to fire one, even with blanks
Its an interesting picture into the human mind. When we dream about things we dont fully comprehend, we tend to fill in the blanks. Something visible but not understood has been called a "black box", I think for the ones that were producing these weapons, firearms were somewhat of a "black box" . Very interesting stuff. Thanks for the video.
It's very interesting to compare these to the modern Chinese car industry. They share a lot of traits, including non-functional styling features borrowed from foreign cars, nonsensical badging that sounds kinda like European car stuff, features that don't really work as they should, and a general combination of experienced manufacturing but a lack of understanding of how things are actually supposed to work. When it comes down to it, a pseudo-Mauser with simple blowback operation and a fake rear sight and gibberish proof marks isn't all that different from a car with the front end of a Porsche and back end of a Lexus, has an alphanumeric name with no relation to sequence or engine size, and is actually an underpowered 3-cylinder front wheel drive car.
Things are changing fast. I wouldn't be surprised if China's car exports surpass America's in a few years. Their e-cars are already way ahead than anything we have... and for a fraction of the cost.
Ian, you make a very valid point about how crude these are but still require a good knowledge of hand tools to make them. I am an apprenticed toolmaker and I would have to think twice before I started making a pistol. This was a very interesting video, and very informative. Thank you
It's been a culture of around several thousand years in their history of five thousand years. Not because they couldn't build something, they just enjoy making knockoffs :-)
huong not several thousand years in any way. 1.) Almost whole Japanese culture is copy of Chinese one. Weapons and technology included. That later started to change due to Japan closing it's border completely. 2.) Almost all possible firearm mechanisms and general concepts were invited 1890-1920. That are now just copied infinitely. 3.) They don't rly do knockoffs. As they are ones that stand behind almost every single non eatable product at least partially. Both in production as well engineering.
Ever since seeing the Browning 1900 for the first time, I always dreamed of a gun just like it but in a larger size. Now the Chinese have made that dream a reality c:
Okay, that 'FN Tokarev 1900' he looked at second is pretty neat, I just wish it had the slot for the shoulder stock like the first one, as well as the bayonet lug like the 'Mauser'. "HAO" is 'hello' in Cantonese, so I'm hoping that's the firing position of the safety: "Say hao to my little friend!" This video was a blast; can't believe it took me 5 years to get to it!
The third one is interesting looking to me. I actually want a 'copy of the looks' of it in .22 caliber for plinking soda cans. Heck, I wouldn't care if it was a single shot as long as it was able to hit a can across a dirt road in Kentucky.
I wouldn't mind firing the first and last examples at the range. Ian has a point. Some of these weapons were probably more for show, but others actually look like they were reasonably functional.
@7:14, "HAO" might be copied from other devices. Electrical switch boxes are sometimes marked Hand, Auto and Off for manual on, automatic operation, and power off, although in the last 30 years, I've mostly seen it in the order H-O-A to keep manual and automatic operation more distinct and separated. On a big panel it will labelled Hand-Off-Auto(matic) but on smaller switches, just H-O-A are used. So a non-English speaker could assume that HOA/HAO was a label for a switch's setting.
just imagine a monthly subscription where you get a gift bag full of chinese mystery pistols
would be pretty fun
:}
Sadly life doesn't allow for amazing things
Ey, don't make me drool man, some of us are European : (
Ikr
I've had dreams like that and I can never Identify the Guns. Lol
Man, this video went from HAO to 105 really quick.
"hao" can mean "good" in Mandarin Chinese
Username Consider the date when these guns were made, mandarin alphabet didnt exist, so it's still gibberish.
@@karlzhu6112 If you mean some sort of official romanization, sure, that didn't happen until Hanyu Pinyin in the 1950s. But indigenous Chinese romanization systems go back at least to1892 by Lu Zhuangzhang. Foreign romanization goes back even further, as early as 1583, and the first to be widely used, Wade-Giles, was in 1859 (giving us the awful Peking instead of Beijng and kungfu instead of gongfu). And even if this is just a coincidence, what a fun coincidence!
Username that’s fascinating.
Do you happen to know if “Hao” would have been a common romanization during the early 20th Century?
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Yes, I carry a 1944 Mauser BELGIQUE BELGIQUE BELGIQUE BELGIQUE
I like to imagine that coming up as the murder weapon in, like, a Poirot mystery, and just listening to David Suchet saying 'BELGIQUE' over and over again for half a minute while describing it.
I like that ferry mutch
I youse to carry a randum vis 70 years old
Polish gun made for nazi officers
Garrett Bell lol I laughed out loud at this
PENIS MUNCHER Hotel: BELGIQUE
"A Colt's a Colt but the mystery pistol cold be anything. It could even be a Colt"
Petarded
@@Bulgeofpersuasion u mean mystarded
It would be a mystery if it was a Winchester...ba-dum-tisssh
It could be you, it could be YOU, it could be ME!
It could be any one of us!
I'm really tempted to have an 80% AR lower engraved with 'HAO' and '105' as the fire/safe markings.
That would make for an excellent story to tell lol
+noob5000000 just get "zero" "100" real quick
That would be beautiful. If you ever ran into someone who got the joke without being told, it would be a magical day.
HAO means “good” so I guess it means “Alright, you’re good to put this gun away” and “105” means “You can fire 105 rounds before this thing explodes and removes your hand”
You can buy converted norinco QBZ bullpup in 5.56/.223 then do that lol
"This in theory would be our safety"
Always a comforting phrase to hear.
@@falloutghoul1 In theory.
And it's almost certainly chambered for 32 auto!
i like the safety marked "Hao" or "105"
'Mom, can we get a pistol?'
'We have a pistol at home.'
The pistol at home: BREVET BREVET BREVET BREVET
123456789011
@@kirahviofficial5761 How dare you.
Rdrvyctvybubibubrzwzrvrd
BELGIOU3BELGIOUEBELGIQI3 105 HAO
MAusER
"Where would you like Belgique stamped sir?"
"Yes"
For an extra we also have pistols fresh in from HerstaL look it says so here
“Can you figure out a way to stamp belgique *inside* the barrel?”
HAO.
As a mechanical engineering student in college who has just spent the two past semesters in the machine shop, I can say that these guns look incredible for being made by people who don't know much about guns and in some cases made by people with very little in the realm of professional education. I would be super proud of myself if I succeeded in manufacturing something of that quality level at this point in my education.
That would be because education does little good when compared to experience.
RiflemanOfTheNorth This is a modest comment, made by a personwith fine character
***** Education is very useful in terms of quality. I could make a working handgun in our machine shop, easy. But it wouldn't look nearly as good as these.
My point being, these pieces are beautiful for what they are.
RiflemanOfTheNorth i think they look amazing for what they are as well (2 year graduate from MCCTC for precision machining, soon entering 3rd year in mechanical engineering at YSU)
"A gun's a gun, but the Chinese Mystery Pistol could be anything! It could even be a gun!"
You know how much we've always wanted one of those!
105 hao likes
I rate this comment 5 BELGICUE out of twin engine airplane logo
Have you considered, that the warlord who ordered the third gun may actually have wanted a bayonet mounted on a pistol? Certainly would look badass. I thought it looked a bit used.
I rather doubt it.
Fuck I'm out of ammo to shoot the cowardly time for re...
Ha...
Good thing I have this bayonets postol
Imagine you dual-wielding the gun against bunch of knives-using thugs, and when the ammo runs out, you jam in a bayonet from the waist holster and dual-wield a bayonet gun-kata.
Sounds like something chinese martial arts film will have tbh
A stocked pistol with a bayonet would kinda-sorta almost make sense in the context those were made, so...
Commissar: "Fix Bayonets!"
*happy gas mask noises*
It's good to know that the Brownings Brownings Brownings Firearms Manufacturing Company finally learned to spell a new word at some point.
Six years later, Ian's love bloomed into a book.
Commander: FIX BAYONETS
Soldier: Sir, all I have is a pistol
Commander: I DON’T CARE, FIX BAYONETS
Soldier: *presents to charge with a bayonet on his pistol*
Because he didn't want to fire that Chinese homemade Belgique and have it blow up in his hand. He only used it to knife people.
I'm sure the person who made that pistol was influenced by the Japanese
Took a year to get any comments lol
@@johnmatthesen1186 you took 3 to get a reply
Just imagine what these smiths could do if they had some training and understanding of the weapons.
They could make a pistol that didn't explode when you tried to fire it?
Just look at Type 56 Automatic Rifles and Type 56 Semiautomatic Rifles, which are copied from AK and SKS respectively with proper factories and tools and blueprints from USSR.
@@kongsinchi1976 Exactly. Ill argue that the T56 was as good, if not better than the typically desirable AKs (Romanian, Hungarian and Russian)
Wed see some Star Wars level gun designs
*LEGO KNOCKOFF'S*
"There's virtually nothing in the way of written resources about these guns."
Because people who attempted to write something down near a warlord's firearms factory got shot.
or stabbed.
by a bayonette.
mounted on a pistol.
Free testing range
And 6 years later...
It's incredible how superior this channel is to most gun channels on youtube, insightful, interesting, unbiased, knowledgeable and all.
Great work!
You're right about the tattoos. My girlfriend is Japanese and she often points out that tattoos we see are incorrect or completely nonsensical. We don't tell the blokes, because, well, they're pretty big blokes and I don't want to waste their time...
My sister once saw a person with the Hanzi characters Stupid/crazy cucumber tattooed on them.
+DoctorWeeTodd In fairness, I would totally take Crazy Cucumber as my ninja codename.
Yeah they'll be like it says dragon! But it really says douchebag.
Yeah right "girlfriend" hahah "japanese"
@@stevethediver1142 I know, right? Everyone knows that girlfriends and Japanese people don't exist.
"certainly this never actually used a bayonet", he said confidently
7:30 to 8:18. Full respect to you Ian. Thank you for handling, reviewing and treating all these firearms with a level of respect and consideration of historical reasons that most people don't have. These guns might not be safe to shoot for very long, but hey they were the best someone could get their hands on at the time. Definitely better than walking around bare hand when there were warlords, bandits, and other chaotic things happening around.
I am working on a book on these pistols, to be announced soon - they are really interesting!
Cool! Hi-Point is bringing in a new line of handguns!
hahahaah
I suppose there's not going to be much left, those plastics turn into dust after a few years.
To qualify as a Hi Point it has to become a blunt weapon when it runs out of ammo.
phantomspaceman Hi-points don’t run out of ammo, because they explode before you get the chance to empty it.
You sure your not talking about Tediore guns?
I love it! I would have LOVED to be one of the Chinese salesmen selling these to other Chinese people. "And of course you see, the notched protrusion that you see on all of the authentic German Mauser rifles is included for FREE on your pistol." Ahh, I see sir, and what is the function? "Rifle-like accuracy of course! The Germans didn't put anything on the rifle that didn't contribute to it's accuracy."
I think you dont get one think: they were clearly unable to read word "German" or "Mauser" so is highly unlikely that they knowed anything about German guns quality or accuracy. They trying to mimik look of good guns thats all.
+Biały The craftsman maybe not, but the ones who ordered them would.
"as you can clearly see, these markings prove that this is in fact an authentic BELGIOUE MAUSER handgun": ASKHBNHJDHJKSJS BELGIOUEBELGIOUE
Unfortunately, it is quite close to truth.
"I'll take 40!"
By far this is the most educational and therefore relevant firearms channel on youtube. Thanks Ian for you devotion.
15:51 "How did they make functional rifling?"
Yeah I'm curious about that as well.
"And the answer is in most case they did not."
Oh......
They probably just scratched lines in the barrel, but probably didn't work.
Years ago in Taiwan, I often saw an embroidered Harley-Davidson style eagle on the back of a jacket with random letters instead of words. I guess they didn't care because few locals could could have read the English words.
Basically a flip of someone getting Chinese characters tattooed on his arm because they look cool, not knowing what they say.
The other day, I saw a guy with something tattooed on him in Hindi. Sadly, it was just an English word in the Hindi script. Lol.
I had a collection of shirts that I purchased in Taiwan with various gibberish printed on them. The most coherent one says "Televised Executions", another one is a sweater with the alphabet on it like some kind of pre-school classroom poster, except Cyrillic letters are randomly mixed into the Latin ones. I lost them after they stopped fitting me so I can't remember what the rest of them said, all I remember is that they were amusing and *extremely* inexpensive, like 30-50 TWD IIRC which is around 1 USD.
Lol. i lost it when he was like: 1,2 3,4 5,6....9,0 and i guess they just didnt know where to go from there....
+鶴見翔 And the little twin engine airplaneXD
too bad they didn't focus on revolvers, a much easier concept to explain to a person who has never used a gun so the resulting product would probably have better function.
They seem to have made these to market them to fool the customer that they are legitimate european pistols. If they made revolvers, the whole cool factor would go away and they would get much less for their work I suppose.
Are you sure that revolvers are simpler to build right when compare to semiautomatic pistols?
@Perry Martel China was a mess at the time. From early 1900 to 1947 China was in a perpetual state of civil war. The warlords Ian mention would rule over entiere regions of China. At this point in history only a few parts of China were industrialized, and (as it still is today) many parts of China were very rural and have little to no heavy industry.
It's more than likely that in this context, the makers of those guns would be given only one gun to work with, possibly a jammed or broken one since for a warlord it was too precious to leave even one handgun unused for too long. Or more likely, the better skilled artisans were given "real" guns, copied them, and the less skilled ones received only the copies, therefore degrading the quality of the gun on the way down.
@@ferwiner2 They likely were not intended to fool the customer, but rather to present as authentic enough to an untrained observer who isn't directly handling the gun. Knock-offs in Asia are for projecting status far more often than they are an attempt to cheat customers.
@@kongsinchi1976 I would disagree that a revolver is easier to build than a simple blowback pistol. The only fidgety parts on a blowback operated guns are the extractor and the magazine feed lips, both of which is can be hand adjusted with a little patience (that is to say you don't need precision machines, you need moderate manual metalworking skills). The combined barrel/chamber is far easier to machine to acceptable specs than the cylinder of a revolver on simple equipment.
Even a single action revolver does not reduce moving parts because of the mechanisms needed to advance and lock the cylinder. The precision needed in the cylinder and advancing mechanism needed to keep the cylinder in time is not trivial, and not easy to hand adjust.
If you get to London check out the genuine Chinese "Thampsan" sub-machine gun at the military museum.
(Yes, those are letter A's!)
Imagine being at a gun range or something, training to use a gun for the first time, and by some inexplicable twist of fate you've been landed with one of these instead of a Beretta.
Instructor: "Okay, so here's the safety selector. It has two positions marked on the gun, 'fire' and 'safe.' Now-"
Unlucky Guy: "Uh, I don't think my gun has those..."
Instructor: "Sure it does, it should be marked right next to that switch near your thumb."
Guy: "Yeah, but mine doesn't have 'fire' and 'safe' on it."
Instructor: "Well, what's it say on yours?"
Guy: "Uhhh.... right now, mine's on 'Hao.' Should I switch it to 105 instead?"
Instructor: "....What?"
Guy: "That's what it says on mine, see?"
Instructor: "..what the fuck kinda gun is that?"
Guy: "Dunno, instead of a model or company name, it just has BELGIQUE stamped two dozen times instead."
Instructor: "I don't think you should fire that thing."
Guy: "Funny, I was thinking the same thing."
This deserves many more likes but you didn't post it 5 years ago lol
@@erikjimenez5851 this is metacommenting
damn, I would like, but I don't want to upset the 420 likes man.
is it possible its not 105 but 10S instead, as in 10 shots? and "hao"means safe?
*fires it anyway..
This is one of my favorite of your videos. I come back at least once ever couple months and watch it once more for the entertainment value
Then you will like my next book... ;)
I'm thinking of some poor toolsmith doing his damnedest to reproduce this crazy tech he'd never seen before with a warlord over his shoulder threatening to cut off his fingers.
No u mean our dear leader and friend Mao's dong
@@James-ir7om Mao probably wasn't even born when most of these guns were made
@@RayTsou He was around, just not nearly as influential during this time as he would later become.
@@James-ir7om CCP was supported because they don't do that sort of thing.
@@lolasdm6959 but then they became the very thing they swore to destroy
I love that the concept of the “Chinese knock off” was a thing even back then.
Ian, I love your videos. They're the most informational firearm videos on RUclips, and you're very knowledgeable on the subject, as well as have an incredible passion for what you do.
Adam Thanks!
+Forgotten Weapons I'm curious as to what the age is of the FN 1900. I imagine it was made about World War 1 but I'm not entirely sure.
+Thomas Forster not to sound like an arse, but surely 116?
N Martindale I don't get what you mean.
I like these videos too, Ian seems like a very knowledgeable but soft spoken kind of guy. I've learned alot since I started watching, I hope this channel stays up for a good long time. Keep up the good work Dude
These are some of the most interesting guns you've presented. I love how their characteristics always seem to generate more questions than answers.
“An artifact of someone who doesn’t really know what guns are, manufacturing guns”
Damn dude don’t roast Springfield like that
If Springfield could understand what he was saying, they would be very upset.
Hao, or 105. I don't get why you think that's gibberish, makes perfect sense to me.
hao does mean "good" in chinese though (好）
The 105 is for, "I have 105 problems, but my pistol going off ain't one."
Arthur Williams I remember reading something about how you can write certain hanzi with numbers, so maybe it actually does mean something. Who knows I stopped studying chinese many years ago.
No no no, hao means Hot ass ordinance, and 105 is actually 1o5, that's means 1 out of 5 times the safety will fail. See simple.
Well good for fucking us. It's a good thing the world revolves around what you do and don't know so the rest of civilization knows what they should and should not know.
I wish somebody in ballistic gear would fire some chinese mystery pistols and film it.
Where are the Mythbusters when you need them?
What kind of protective gear would you wear when you know the slide is going to shoot back in your face? Wouldn't it be better to clamp it in a vice and pull the trigger remotely?
Riot armor.
Either way i´m thinking they would probably survive a magazine or two. People definitely fire them occasionally, probably not very much but if you have a gun for self defense you´ll want to practice with them at least once.
Naw get EOD armor
Roland Deschain just make a rig that you put the pistol in and fire it remotely.
As an asian guy, I have to appreciate how you managed to show the markings under the light of sheer ignorance. It's rare to see someone actually appreciating the thought process of a guy in the middle of a war, trying to replicate something they have never quite understood.
15:30
Looks like a Beretta
Would buy for three chickens
VicariousReality7 I feel like the one before that one looked like a beretta too hmmm weird
I thought that toooo
Ehhhh, I'd say it is worth for about 2-and-a-half chickens
Beretta 1915
My next personalized car tag: HAO 105
7:14 Everybody knows safe is 105 and Hao is fire DUUUUUUUHHHH..........or is it the other way around...whatever.
I give credit to the makers of these pistols. I don't think I could even make a pistol that even has movable parts. I could make a musket, I could probably make a musket.
That's..........good.....so like fire or like safety?
Oh goood is good........okay........
greg Bilotta you could make a matchlock pretty easy, it's not hard. Even a wheellock isn't too tricky if you're mechanically minded...
Semi-auto handgun? quite a bit trickier.
*****
True, if you count the Luty in there. I.... don't really care for full auto or open bolt personally, so the extra work to make it Semi would be worth it for me (it's not a huge amount of extra work, but it is some), as would making it gas or recoil and not straight blowback.
That being said, you can get extremely simple if you aren't so picky.
***** You could made your own China with that knowledge and that army with easy to make smg's
Must have been mentioned before, but the "sunburst" symbol is the Chinese nationalist emblem.
Hail Taiwan
@@asdasd-ty9se Free Hong Kong
Lv2089 better idea annex it
TAIWAN NUMBA WAN
@@asdasd-ty9se Republic of China in Taiwan
This video is pretty good, he should write a book about this.
noice
That sounds like a good plan Dutch. Once he makes enough on it then he can go to Tahiti.
"the internals haven't been peened up" that's what she said, in disappointment.
bruh what were you waiting for? lmfao
I really like these videos where you show a spread of weapons.
Ghilliedude3 Its almost like collections, like with the Pedersen designs that were available for bidding
@@gregbilotta2472 Sorry for being 7 years late, but I think auction houses auction off many similar articles (firearms included) in the same auction because of an heir auctioning off some deceased collector's collection.
“I challenge the average suburban man to build one of these with some files and drills”
P. A. Luty: say no more
The most dangerous combination in the world: a British man and his toolshed.
I'd take a luty over these honestly. A luty is quite functional, especially if you used a real threaded barrel you basically have a true smg.
@@LisaAnn777 it would probably even be safe to fire if appropriate metals were used :D
More Chinese Mystery Pistols please! Incredible stuff, show us more when there's a chance.
"Hao", sounds like "good" in Mandarin. so, maybe that meant you were "good" to shoot? lol
tenaxxband or good as in safe? 🤷♂️
REALLY doubtful the people making these knew what the roman characters were.
The word “Hao” exists in Chinese Pinyin, but this system was introduced in 1957. The spelling system that Chinese use back in 1920s was the Wade-Giles system, but the word “Hao” did not exist in that system.
Also before 1949 the literacy rate in China was only about 5%-20%, so I would guess this gunsmith clearly didn’t know any of the European letters but put it on anyway just for fun/ decoration/ thought it was a rune that give the gun +1 attack damage
and the 105 meant 105 rounds per second
@@bonk2910 Damn
Some of them are clearly gun design by Cargo Cult.
In the second of Robert Ludlum's Jason Bourne novels, Bourne buys a modern iteration of a high-quality Chinese Mystery Pistol in Hong Kong; basically a Chinese Mystery Wonder Nine. He uses it for most of the book IIRC.
Regarding the ones that shoot 7.62 Tokarev, all I can think of is to wonder how many people got hold of a combination of such a pistol and some of the especially hot ammo meant for Soviet machine pistols, and then proceeded to have a particularly terrible day.
I really appreciate the point you make at 8:00 about not judging the craftsmen for the stylistic choices they made with stampings on the guns.
I've got a crazy theory on the decorative marks in the shallow rectangular pockets on the last pistol shown. Could it be that they were trying to reproduce the tooling marks you usually see in the pockets on broom handle Mausers?
this is one of my favorite videos on the channel because i absolutely love learning about all the weird and wild weapons, and this is an genuine grab bag of fun little misfits
It is really fascinating that the first two pistols are both modeled after the browning 1900, but still they look vastly different.
Man I love the respect you show for the people who were creating these.
" i need a gun that can shoot someone 5 feet in front of me" "coming right up"
"We have mausers at home."
Mausers at home.
My experience is the Chinese are excellent at reverse engineering and completely unaware of actual metallurgy including heat treating and steel properties.
onmilo Same idea applies to their car industry as well I think LOL
onmilo Smart but broke people.
Good, because the lack of heat treating and advanced chemistries is less likely to produce brittle steel that blow up in your face. If this is low carbon steel used in cleavers and hammers, it is actually close to shock steel used in firearms than say higher carbon stuff quenched or heat treated.
Well they had to have known a bit about heat treating and metallurgy because they used to make excellent swords and such, I just don't think they knew what metallurgy and heat treatment processes were good for firearms at this time...
Perhaps some were intentional scams, people making something that looked and sorta operated good enough to convince the rubes.
The one that says "U.S.A." Also has what looks to be an attempt at writing "Australia"
This is probably my favorite video on this channel; Mostly because these guns are interesting pieces of early 20th century, amateur gunmaking in China, but also because they are the prime example that gunsmithing is a difficult thing to do and so many things can go wrong when inexperienced people try to do it.
Those last two "pistols" honestly look like something from Star Wars. Not surprising, considering most Star Wars guns are just WWII-era blank-firing guns with "sci-fi" stuff glued on.
Girls today:
If you can't handle me at HOA you don't deserve me at 105.
I like Ian's all videos a lot, but these dealing with mystery guns and those presenting unique antique firearms are my favourites! Informative & intriguing.
Sooooo, where can one download ammunition?
He meant down loading the ammo by decreasing the powder load in the casing.
From Hillary's email server. (I'll see myself out)
made my day : D
Yes, you should try to download some ammunition from "Moms Demand Action" or someone similar to them.
Personally I torrent my ammunition.
I think that I've watched this oh, half a dozen times over the years, It's always good for a smile.
10:04 Belgioub, yes, it must be somewhere in Eulope, lol.
Ian is such a cool guy. Even when reviewing some frankly rather shoddy pistols, he remains respectful & empathizes with the people that made these weapon a century ago
That last one was really interesting.
I like the first one and the one with the yellow grips.
Cool pistols! Can't believe I missed this video the first time around. On the second pistol, at about the 6:59 mark or so, if you squint and stretch your imagination, it looks like the bottom line of text on the frame says, "SHOOTEMS" !!! LOL Great video, thanks, Ian!
The saddest part, to me, is that these people making these guns by hand, not knowing what they were doing but doing the best they could anyway, still had to pretend that the guns came from somewhere else. They obviously weren't worried about copyright laws, why not just put your own markings on it and show some national pride?
+DaaaahWhoosh Because marketing. If you're trying to sell them or pass them off as X brand, why not mark them as that? Not like anything would happen. Back then, the potential customers probably didn't know enough to say otherwise.
again marketing would you rather buy a mauser well named brand or some brand you never heard of
These pistols were built during the war when the Chinese armed forces were not only fighting against the invading Japanese, but also the Chinese Red Army (as it was then); they're certainly not made with the luxury of gun manufacturers elsewhere, but made under very trying conditions by anyone who could do a bit of machining to supply the burning demand of the armed forces.
Because us Chinese always believe that foreign made is better than chinese made. So, if you put your own markings on it the worst case scenario is nobody gonna buy it or it just worth half price or 1/3 of it's original foreign made guns...... But China during 1920s to 1940s were at war so as well as it function, people will buy it just for killing
You try to pass them off as imports because the Chinese knew as well as anyone else that they were not up to date on gun technology at this point. The same soldier who did not know enough about guns to tell that these were not genuine would still probably reject the gun if they knew that they were Chinese made. Add to that there was no national pride during this time period Chinese central government had completely collapsed and was basically in the middle of a civil war with at least 6 major and hundreds of minor factions.
Thanks a lot! I would never thought I can get so much information of Chinese made pistol in 20 mins! what a great channel, objective while interesting.
I find it very ironic that the Chinese invented the firearm, it was cutting edge weaponry, yet by 1920 they were banging out awful weapons.
How's it ironic? They made something, someone else made it better, and they rushed to make knock offs because they couldn't make their own for whatever reason.
The Chinese didn't invesnt the firearm. They invented the gunpowder but then failed to invent a firearm to make proper use of it.
@@skycrater5726 The Chinese were very warlike and imperialistic, it's just that after a while - around the time of the Ming - a philosophical doctrine came to dominate their industry which basically said "we've already made everything that matters, nothing on the outside can hope to match the splendor of the interior", so they just stopped interacting with the world or innovating because they believed it would disrupt what they saw as their perfect, harmonious society.
It's a lot like what happened with Japan
@@GeorgeMonet They did invent the firearm, it was called the "fire lance" and was a bamboo stick that would be filled with some gun powder and some hard objects such as porcelain shards - or lead pellets like in a modern shotgun.
Also, they made grenades, explosive arrows (small grenades fired from a bow), and later rockets for military use. The rockets could deliver an explosive or incendiary charge, or a tear inducing powder (medieval crowd control? 😁).
They also made cannons, hard evidence exists for the 13th century.
All of this was extremely primitive by today's standards, of course, had a very limited range, and was quite unsafe to use, but for the time period, when the enemy most likely had bows and melee weapons, it would have been scary to go up against such an arsenal. When the Portuguese came to China in the 16th century, who by then had arquebuses, early muskets and Western cannons, they were unimpressed by the Chinese designs, though.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huolongjing
@@skycrater5726 lmao good joke
Awesome video as always, Ian. I was wondering if you ever get information as to what the "street price" is on these handmade knock-offs as compared to what the real factory pistol that it's patterned after would go for in the same area? I, for one would find that kind of bonus info. very interesting! Keep up the awesome work and I'll be looking forward to your next uploads.
All these straight blowback pistols, I was waiting for him to say
"Arthritis was very popular in China at the time..."
The guys conscripted into these warlord's armies probably didn't live long enough for that to concern them.
This is my favorite video from Ian McCollum.
The sight numbers is me when I don’t know what to put on my math homework
Damn. That was cold blooded. Lol.
I personally find the first pistol very appealing. The profile of the gun seems so sleek and I think that if it was altered by a high end manufacturer that it would have the potential to be a great gun.
I hope a cinema prop shop bought these. They'd really appreciate them, probably put them to better use than anyone, and they'd never, ever, ever let someone try to fire one, even with blanks
Its an interesting picture into the human mind. When we dream about things we dont fully comprehend, we tend to fill in the blanks. Something visible but not understood has been called a "black box", I think for the ones that were producing these weapons, firearms were somewhat of a "black box" . Very interesting stuff. Thanks for the video.
It's very interesting to compare these to the modern Chinese car industry. They share a lot of traits, including non-functional styling features borrowed from foreign cars, nonsensical badging that sounds kinda like European car stuff, features that don't really work as they should, and a general combination of experienced manufacturing but a lack of understanding of how things are actually supposed to work.
When it comes down to it, a pseudo-Mauser with simple blowback operation and a fake rear sight and gibberish proof marks isn't all that different from a car with the front end of a Porsche and back end of a Lexus, has an alphanumeric name with no relation to sequence or engine size, and is actually an underpowered 3-cylinder front wheel drive car.
Things are changing fast. I wouldn't be surprised if China's car exports surpass America's in a few years. Their e-cars are already way ahead than anything we have... and for a fraction of the cost.
Ian, you make a very valid point about how crude these are but still require a good knowledge of hand tools to make them.
I am an apprenticed toolmaker and I would have to think twice before I started making a pistol.
This was a very interesting video, and very informative.
Thank you
They did knock-offs then, they do knock-offs now.
It's been a culture of around several thousand years in their history of five thousand years. Not because they couldn't build something, they just enjoy making knockoffs :-)
Still can't get them to make or use toothbrushes.
huong
not several thousand years in any way.
1.) Almost whole Japanese culture is copy of Chinese one. Weapons and technology included. That later started to change due to Japan closing it's border completely.
2.) Almost all possible firearm mechanisms and general concepts were invited 1890-1920. That are now just copied infinitely.
3.) They don't rly do knockoffs. As they are ones that stand behind almost every single non eatable product at least partially. Both in production as well engineering.
Booty-booty-boot, We-have-boot-leeeeegs. Bwwwooooong
The amount of ignorance in these comments is appalling...
You are hilarious....for a serious gun historian!!! Love your videos!
You should make a kickstarter funded book on this topic, I bet it would do pretty well
I love episodes like this. We get to see Ian the Archaeologist as well as Ian the Historian.
"you'll see the safety is... *how* in one position, and *one hundred and five* ."
I have learned so much from you and to think I stumbled upon your videos late one night. Keep it up!
Ever since seeing the Browning 1900 for the first time, I always dreamed of a gun just like it but in a larger size. Now the Chinese have made that dream a reality c:
I think they have done a good job creating something without knowledge what that piece suppose to do.
Good video as always, Ian, good work.
Okay, that 'FN Tokarev 1900' he looked at second is pretty neat, I just wish it had the slot for the shoulder stock like the first one, as well as the bayonet lug like the 'Mauser'. "HAO" is 'hello' in Cantonese, so I'm hoping that's the firing position of the safety: "Say hao to my little friend!" This video was a blast; can't believe it took me 5 years to get to it!
Ok but these actually look kinda badass
From our history book I see a picture of the first gun which says it was manufactured by Da Gu Shipyard in Tianjin.
Wait, why would a german colony produce an american arm?
The first gun EVER?
7:12 i have no idea how you said that with a strait face XD I cracked up just listening to you say it!
Ian, I love you and your childlike enthusiasm for these wretched creations of an uncaring god. Bless you.
these aren't wretched! they're pretty great for something joe schmoe put together in his workshop
PoonBot5K I know, I was just having a little banter towards the Chinese.
Every time this video pops up I have to watch it. I think these are fascinating firearms.
Can we get a Mauser pistol, momma?
- We have one in the garage.
Ian knows soooo much about almost every firearm ever made. So i can see why he is so intrested in these chinese guns
The third one is interesting looking to me. I actually want a 'copy of the looks' of it in .22 caliber for plinking soda cans. Heck, I wouldn't care if it was a single shot as long as it was able to hit a can across a dirt road in Kentucky.
I wouldn't mind firing the first and last examples at the range. Ian has a point. Some of these weapons were probably more for show, but others actually look like they were reasonably functional.
@7:14, "HAO" might be copied from other devices. Electrical switch boxes are sometimes marked Hand, Auto and Off for manual on, automatic operation, and power off, although in the last 30 years, I've mostly seen it in the order H-O-A to keep manual and automatic operation more distinct and separated. On a big panel it will labelled Hand-Off-Auto(matic) but on smaller switches, just H-O-A are used. So a non-English speaker could assume that HOA/HAO was a label for a switch's setting.
wow I think you might be on to something there
They look like they’d fit in perfectly in a Star Wars movie.