"If you want to know about religion just ask an atheist." Sadly that quote is quite true. I enjoy your show quite a bit and hope you'll continue for a long time.
"He just wanted a discussion." No, he just wanted to waffle. If he wanted a discussion he would have come armed with knowledge, not half remembered conjecture from an argument we know has already been refuted.
In a study that was conducted by the University of Chicago, a link was found between non-religious upbringing and kindness. In fact, children who were raised without religion were not only kinder but also showed more empathy towards others. While most would believe that religion and a higher power breeds a better upbringing, this study seems to indicate otherwise. Led by Professor Jean Decety looked into the perceptions and behavior of various children located in six different countries. They looked into the children’s likeliness to share, as well as their habits regarding judging others or punishing them for bad behavior. “Overall, our findings … contradict the commonsense and popular assumption that children from religious households are more altruistic and kind towards others,” “More generally, they call into question whether religion is vital for moral development, supporting the idea that secularization of moral discourse will not reduce human kindness - in fact, it will do just the opposite
I was kicked out of sunday school when I was about 10 years old because I said some things didn't make sense that they were teaching us. Nothing proves that they are wrong more than their willingness to kick out anyone who questions anything.
i see christmas as a holiday in which you can enjoy your family and buy friends and family presents to show how much you appreciate them. that is it =]
Caller Don has a spaghetti bowl of various religious dogmas running around his brain. Only the Flying Spaghetti Monster (Pasta be upon Him) can save him.
To anyone who is curious, The reason the first cause must necessarily be a 'being' ( at least according to the kalam cosmological argument) is because a non-being first cause would be subject to infinite regression where as a being could "choose" to create. But this just shows one of the many flaws in the argument as a being "choosing" to create contradicts it's changeless/timeless nature, which it must necessarily have to exist before space-time.
Kurt Cameron was preaching to hit cohosts when he was on tv as a kid, he was never a "devout" atheist at anytime that he had the ability to make his own decisions about things.
@Erholts Could someone explain to me the logic of this reasoning because I can't see it. The whole argument is actually just a stepping stones of jumping to conclusions that has no relevance at all and making the argument ass complicated as possible so that no one actually understands it. I really would like to know where I can find this argument and who claims that this proves anything?
On the issue of personal experience, I would suggest a video by the RUclips user KnownNoMore called "Against Religious Experience (Why Religious Apologists Cannot Possibly Win- part 3)." It is an excellent discussion of the topic. 祝你們生活順心.
@theatheistexperience Not all science journals are public, or necessarily readily available. When I was looking for some papers on the physiology of dreaming, some of the journals required some kind of membership. The Lancet, for example, requires membership, which in their case was free. I would often find just the abstracts were public, and the rest only available to students or teachers.
There is more pressure put on the women to do birth control there is less pressure on men to force them into taking responsibility too. Merely using a condom is not sufficient they can break or leak. What I propose if the men should have a vasectomy until such time as the couple really wants to have children. Then when you are ready to have children have a reversal of the vasectomy and in turn have the number of children you want then have another vasectomy and do your part to keep from getting a women pregnant. A lot of unnecessary births can be avoided and yes this is what I did. We have two children, one girl, one boy.
I am an Atheist all the way. I was talking to a co-worker the other day and I had to admit that I would rather allow my Daughter (all things equal) to date a devout Christian rather than an Atheist. I was raised Catholic, then a Baptist then a Southern Baptist, but Atheist for 6 years. I have a problem wrapping my head around this idea. If anyone could comment with credible thoughts on this, I would like to know why...
What are the reasons behind people "speaking in tongue" and passing out after one "feels the spirit of god" in them.?????I haven't really been able to find information about it
Dear Don (and others), Please don't call in to the show in hopes of getting a pat on the back for being an atheist. Thank you. Signed... Just another listener
@BeekersSqueakers In order for this being to be both a creator and timeless/changeless one must conclude that said being is and always has been creating which means that whatever is being created (the universe) must have always been created making it eternal along side the creator, and thus defeating the entire premise of the argument. That doesn't even begin to delve into how non-physical beings can, not only exist, but manipulate physical reality.
@AtheistOnTheEdge , Hm that's an interesting take. (a) I think Matt and Martin were the ones pushing for an actual argument instead of talking about manners; (b) Matt and Martin said clearly, several different ways, that the points and conclusions of the Kalam argument (and the arguments of the caller) were unfounded. ("how do you get a conscious being?", etc).
Don't get me wrong, I respect Martin, but he interrupts callers (and his co-hosts) quite often with unnecessary and sometimes inaudible comments that add nothing to the conversation. Don Baker and Tracie Harris are guilty of doing the same thing. Matt is the star of this show for good reason. Not only does Matt make the most articulate arguments, he's also good at listening and his interruptions are perfectly timed.
I was walking to work in San Francisco and I swear i saw Matt Dillahunty arguing with one of those crazy people who hold a giant sign and a megaphone telling people they are going to hell while he was waiting in line for the trolley. I wanted to hug him but I wasn't sure it was him. In retrospect I should have done it anyways.
Don from Houston, he really sounds like Mark from Austin Stone, could be wrong but he has called in under an alias before, and he sounds exactly like him. Am I the only one?
11:32 ish I was in the Military. To this day instead of saying the Pledge of Alligence I recite my Oath as a Soldier...an Oath many of my fellow soldiers signed on thier contracts and moved on without thinking about to hard I think. Personaly, I beleive it should replace teh Pldge all together... "I swear to protect the Constitution against all threats both foreign and domestic"
Re the Kalam, and Martins point about "beginning to exist". I think WLC craig says that anything purely mechanical (as opposed to something conscious, which he thinks is not mechanical) can not have been the cause of the universe as anything mechanical could not have acted after an infinite amount of time. So therefore the cause was conscious. This assumes some kind of time before the big bang, and that our universe has not happened an infinite number of times already. So maybe I misunderstood.
My understanding is that the word 'devout' shares the same root as the word 'devotion', and describes a commitment to a proposition or an assertion. As atheists, we're not making an assertion of our own, we're simply dismissing an assertion on the basis of lack of evidence. You can be a devout nihilist (someone who makes the assertion that there is no god).
Dan Patrick doesn't actually care about the "potential people" that are dying due to abortion because he does not work on a way to provide for them before they die, or help prevent unwanted pregnancy in the first place. That's a fact.
Saying : "the universe is finite" is a statement of belief. We have a perception of a finite part of the universe (because regarding to our models, for instance, we can't observe beyond the constant of Planck, but we don't know about the universe as "everything that exists". We don't know if there is a time 0. We don't know if there was or not, a singularity beyond witch our universe contracted before expanding in what we call the big bang. We simply don't know.
P1 Finite things need an infinite cause P2 Infinite regress is infinite C Infinite regress is the cause of finite things. Wow look at the awesome validity of that argument
they gave the 1st caller 10minutes of airtime. his question should have been answered in 30 seconds. a half of his call was spent glorifying matt and his son
@JuzBecause I watch every episode every week that it is actually on, but the fun is the responses to the characters that call in...they have some pretty funny people calling in every week.
Hm. I'm a bit surprised Matt hadn't heard of WLC's extrapolations from the conclusion that the universe had a cause to his identification of what that cause would be. Considering that they've done episodes on Kalam, I would expect them to be familiar with those extrapolations to identifying the cause as a changeless disembodied mind of immense power. The process Craig takes to get there is just incredibly stupid, but he wraps it up in such verbosity that it gives the appearance of soundness.
@dave4shmups "Correcting" someone by saying that their statement doesn't match an ancient document is not peer review. It's not even fact-checking. It's just ensuring a kind of consistency.
As an ex Jehovah's Witness, they won't kick you out for asking questions, but you can be labeled spiritually weak and then avoided as "bad association" --though, that doesn't exactly happen to 8 yr-olds. However, I was one of those labeled and avoided for my questionings. I was in my early 20's.
My own view, I am opposed to Abortion, but I don't believe we have the right to make that decision for everyone. But I am also for education on prevention as we know abstinence does not work.
13:33 They kicked a kid out of church for asking questions? Luke 2:46-47 "After three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers." Jesus at 12 O.o
Did you read that back before you posted? If I watch a TV program about a political belief, am I necessarily agreeing with all the arguments or beliefs presented? Would I be worshipping that party/politician/political creed? Your justification of religion boils down to an argument that not all religious people are bad - which almost every atheist would agree with. The fact that some good is done by religious people, or that religion's aren't all bad, is not the same as religion is not bad.
"A finite thing cannot bring about a finite thing." So what can a finite thing create? Is not your favorite movie finite? Are movie producers infinite beings?
If a god is changeless and "outside of time" it cannot create anything for two reasons: 1) Without time, no decisions are possible. Decision making is necessarily a function of time. There has to be a time/space event point "A" which the being chooses to do something at a point "B". Without duration (time) this is not possible. 2) Making a decision is a change in mental state, thus a "changeless" thing cannot make this change in it's mental state.
Saying : "everything that has a begining has a cause" is Right, but the question is "Does the universe has a beginning". Then if we define "the universe" as "everything that exists" we can question the validity of the concept of "begining" concerning this universe. Because the concept of begining we experience is only the begining of thing within the universe. Does this concept makes sense vis a vis the universe defined as "everything that exists" ? Obviously not.
Too all you people noticing Martin's beard, NO NEED TO comment, it's already said 500 times, you're not having an original comment. Talk about something relevant.
If it is conscious it can't be changeless, because a changeless mind doesn't work... Also a mind with desires that exists forever does not work either. Minds only work within time since information has to pass, and thus time only allows information to pass through the mind. So it can't be timeless, it can't be changeless, and it has desires (creating the universe). That means If it is at least infinite - creating requires a point in time and why this and not any time before or after...
@xebek LOL. I kind of like this idea of the Devil trying to torture Hitchens, who just responds by intellectually and boldy debating his way out of it. Who could fear the Devil over Hitchens...
@Scarletpooky Scary thing is he wouldn't be the only guy I've heard of that that's happened to. I've heard of other churches throwing people out because they're not supposed to question anything. It's "blasphemy". That is so stupid.
"If you want to know about religion just ask an atheist." Sadly that quote is quite true. I enjoy your show quite a bit and hope you'll continue for a long time.
'Before the big bang' is a bit like saying 'Walk to the North Pole, and when you get there walk another couple of miles north'.
"He just wanted a discussion."
No, he just wanted to waffle. If he wanted a discussion he would have come armed with knowledge, not half remembered conjecture from an argument we know has already been refuted.
In a study that was conducted by the University of Chicago, a link was found between non-religious upbringing and kindness. In fact, children who were raised without religion were not only kinder but also showed more empathy towards others. While most would believe that religion and a higher power breeds a better upbringing, this study seems to indicate otherwise. Led by Professor Jean Decety looked into the perceptions and behavior of various children located in six different countries. They looked into the children’s likeliness to share, as well as their habits regarding judging others or punishing them for bad behavior. “Overall, our findings … contradict the commonsense and popular assumption that children from religious households are more altruistic and kind towards others,” “More generally, they call into question whether religion is vital for moral development, supporting the idea that secularization of moral discourse will not reduce human kindness - in fact, it will do just the opposite
I just love that you guys know your opponent's arguments better than they do.
Cheers!
I was kicked out of sunday school when I was about 10 years old because I said some things didn't make sense that they were teaching us. Nothing proves that they are wrong more than their willingness to kick out anyone who questions anything.
nice summary for the last caller there, ha.
so depressed about hitchens, my favorite debater. still happy to know harris dawkins fry, and atheist experience are still going strong
i see christmas as a holiday in which you can enjoy your family and buy friends and family presents to show how much you appreciate them. that is it =]
To Don from Houston: A god that can not change is inert and can not create. It can not reason. It can not think.
this definitely should get more views !
Matt with a Star Trek costume and his Ewok friend.
😂
Thanks for this and thanks for allowing comments !!!
Thanks for the upload guys. Long live atheist experience tv show!
Caller Don has a spaghetti bowl of various religious dogmas running around his brain. Only the Flying Spaghetti Monster (Pasta be upon Him) can save him.
Wow, what a great episode... Matt as always but this is the first show I've seen with Mark...he's fantastic!
Happy Nonspecific Winter Celebration Time Period, to everyone at the Atheist Experience!
hey. ty for uploading this show. i live in maine and im addicted lol. go go freedom to think.
"He's really good at lying to his dad" lmao matt.
Thanks for the great show, it's sometimes entertaining but also educative to listen to. These guys have done their research! :)
Either all days are holy or none are.
"That scary, tingling feeling between [your] ears. That's called 'Thinking'"-Martin Wagner
Um, not the most relevant comment, but I didn't even recognize Martin with his beard. Looks good!
I was actually thinking that Martin was rocking the beard.
Looks like he lost a little weight too.
To anyone who is curious,
The reason the first cause must necessarily be a 'being' ( at least according to the kalam cosmological argument) is because a non-being first cause would be subject to infinite regression where as a being could "choose" to create. But this just shows one of the many flaws in the argument as a being "choosing" to create contradicts it's changeless/timeless nature, which it must necessarily have to exist before space-time.
Penn Jilett(mid in his teens) got uninvited from Sunday school too.
7:50
de·vout/diˈvout/
Adjective:
1 Having or showing deep religious feeling or commitment.
2 Totally committed to a cause or belief.
Kurt Cameron was preaching to hit cohosts when he was on tv as a kid, he was never a "devout" atheist at anytime that he had the ability to make his own decisions about things.
They didn't address the equivocation fallacy and intuition of the kalam argument
@Erholts Could someone explain to me the logic of this reasoning because I can't see it. The whole argument is actually just a stepping stones of jumping to conclusions that has no relevance at all and making the argument ass complicated as possible so that no one actually understands it. I really would like to know where I can find this argument and who claims that this proves anything?
"You ready, Martin? We're gonna shotgun these calls!" LOL!
I'm going to have to quote you from now on Matt :-)
"Faith is a divide by zero error!"
XMass doesn't mean a secular version of the holiday. It's amazing how many people don't know this.
On the issue of personal experience, I would suggest a video by the RUclips user KnownNoMore called "Against Religious Experience (Why Religious Apologists Cannot Possibly Win- part 3)." It is an excellent discussion of the topic. 祝你們生活順心.
@theatheistexperience Not all science journals are public, or necessarily readily available. When I was looking for some papers on the physiology of dreaming, some of the journals required some kind of membership. The Lancet, for example, requires membership, which in their case was free. I would often find just the abstracts were public, and the rest only available to students or teachers.
@48:10 did martin say "dumbass" under his breath?
Woah... dat Martin. I didn't recognise him until I read the name displayed under him.
@TFR2087 Actually starts at 1:20 if you want to hear the good discussion of christmas/holidays..
There is more pressure put on the women to do birth control there is less pressure on men to force them into taking responsibility too. Merely using a condom is not sufficient they can break or leak. What I propose if the men should have a vasectomy until such time as the couple really wants to have children. Then when you are ready to have children have a reversal of the vasectomy and in turn have the number of children you want then have another vasectomy and do your part to keep from getting a women pregnant. A lot of unnecessary births can be avoided and yes this is what I did. We have two children, one girl, one boy.
I am an Atheist all the way. I was talking to a co-worker the other day and I had to admit that I would rather allow my Daughter (all things equal) to date a devout Christian rather than an Atheist. I was raised Catholic, then a Baptist then a Southern Baptist, but Atheist for 6 years. I have a problem wrapping my head around this idea. If anyone could comment with credible thoughts on this, I would like to know why...
Hey Matt, how did you get Varg Vikernes as your co-host?
What are the reasons behind people "speaking in tongue" and passing out after one "feels the spirit of god" in them.?????I haven't really been able to find information about it
Dear Don (and others),
Please don't call in to the show in hopes of getting a pat on the back for being an atheist.
Thank you.
Signed... Just another listener
@BeekersSqueakers In order for this being to be both a creator and timeless/changeless one must conclude that said being is and always has been creating which means that whatever is being created (the universe) must have always been created making it eternal along side the creator, and thus defeating the entire premise of the argument. That doesn't even begin to delve into how non-physical beings can, not only exist, but manipulate physical reality.
@AtheistOnTheEdge ,
Hm that's an interesting take. (a) I think Matt and Martin were the ones pushing for an actual argument instead of talking about manners; (b) Matt and Martin said clearly, several different ways, that the points and conclusions of the Kalam argument (and the arguments of the caller) were unfounded. ("how do you get a conscious being?", etc).
Don't get me wrong, I respect Martin, but he interrupts callers (and his co-hosts) quite often with unnecessary and sometimes inaudible comments that add nothing to the conversation. Don Baker and Tracie Harris are guilty of doing the same thing. Matt is the star of this show for good reason. Not only does Matt make the most articulate arguments, he's also good at listening and his interruptions are perfectly timed.
Awesome first caller
I did not recognize Wagner here. Great improvement, sir!
I was walking to work in San Francisco and I swear i saw Matt Dillahunty arguing with one of those crazy people who hold a giant sign and a megaphone telling people they are going to hell while he was waiting in line for the trolley. I wanted to hug him but I wasn't sure it was him. In retrospect I should have done it anyways.
Same story as first caller. Great caller
The one thing all my army buddies tell me is that "in the army, we defend freedom and liberty, not practice it."
Don from Houston, he really sounds like Mark from Austin Stone, could be wrong but he has called in under an alias before, and he sounds exactly like him. Am I the only one?
11:32 ish
I was in the Military.
To this day instead of saying the Pledge of Alligence I recite my Oath as a Soldier...an Oath many of my fellow soldiers signed on thier contracts and moved on without thinking about to hard I think. Personaly, I beleive it should replace teh Pldge all together...
"I swear to protect the Constitution against all threats both foreign and domestic"
First caller sounds remarkebly like myself, good on him!
Re the Kalam, and Martins point about "beginning to exist". I think WLC craig says that anything purely mechanical (as opposed to something conscious, which he thinks is not mechanical) can not have been the cause of the universe as anything mechanical could not have acted after an infinite amount of time. So therefore the cause was conscious. This assumes some kind of time before the big bang, and that our universe has not happened an infinite number of times already. So maybe I misunderstood.
My understanding is that the word 'devout' shares the same root as the word 'devotion', and describes a commitment to a proposition or an assertion. As atheists, we're not making an assertion of our own, we're simply dismissing an assertion on the basis of lack of evidence. You can be a devout nihilist (someone who makes the assertion that there is no god).
Dan Patrick doesn't actually care about the "potential people" that are dying due to abortion because he does not work on a way to provide for them before they die, or help prevent unwanted pregnancy in the first place. That's a fact.
Brining Philosophy to questions of Scientific Fact is even less effective than bringing a toothpick to a Tank Battle.
@Rationalific you could fit another 10 calls into the show if people would get to the point quicker like matt does with the last calls.
Saying : "the universe is finite" is a statement of belief. We have a perception of a finite part of the universe (because regarding to our models, for instance, we can't observe beyond the constant of Planck, but we don't know about the universe as "everything that exists". We don't know if there is a time 0. We don't know if there was or not, a singularity beyond witch our universe contracted before expanding in what we call the big bang. We simply don't know.
Great look Martin!
P1 Finite things need an infinite cause
P2 Infinite regress is infinite
C Infinite regress is the cause of finite things.
Wow look at the awesome validity of that argument
i had a talking to after reciting the sermon backwards
Martin Wagner and Dennis Loubet sound exactly the same!
they gave the 1st caller 10minutes of airtime. his question should have been answered in 30 seconds. a half of his call was spent glorifying matt and his son
@JuzBecause I watch every episode every week that it is actually on, but the fun is the responses to the characters that call in...they have some pretty funny people calling in every week.
Holy Shit, I thought there was a new addition to TAE at first, then I realized it was Martin LOL
guys, does anyone know what Martin whispered at 48:10 ?
If there is no such thing as trolls, then how do you explain all the dead unicorns?
Hm. I'm a bit surprised Matt hadn't heard of WLC's extrapolations from the conclusion that the universe had a cause to his identification of what that cause would be. Considering that they've done episodes on Kalam, I would expect them to be familiar with those extrapolations to identifying the cause as a changeless disembodied mind of immense power.
The process Craig takes to get there is just incredibly stupid, but he wraps it up in such verbosity that it gives the appearance of soundness.
What's wrong with just saying "I'm an Atheist"?
is that Paul Giamotti?
Calls begin at 6:23
Hard to answer a question if you don't have a lig anwser, especially if you can't simply say "Gee, I don't know.
@dave4shmups "Correcting" someone by saying that their statement doesn't match an ancient document is not peer review. It's not even fact-checking. It's just ensuring a kind of consistency.
Does church of flying spaghetti monster exist in US and are they rax exempt?
As an ex Jehovah's Witness, they won't kick you out for asking questions, but you can be labeled spiritually weak and then avoided as "bad association" --though, that doesn't exactly happen to 8 yr-olds. However, I was one of those labeled and avoided for my questionings. I was in my early 20's.
My own view, I am opposed to Abortion, but I don't believe we have the right to make that decision for everyone. But I am also for education on prevention as we know abstinence does not work.
@Rebelbutthole
You think there won't be any big questions after that? That's called moving the goal post/ god of the gaps.
@t4705mb6 It was a serious question. "Matt has a very very difficult time handling being wrong." Can you point to examples of this?
Listened to the podcast first. Mike from CO really either misrepresented Don or just didn't bother paying attention to what he was saying. Wow.
13:33 They kicked a kid out of church for asking questions?
Luke 2:46-47 "After three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers."
Jesus at 12
O.o
Lot's of callers! Awesome makes me more likely to actually give a call-in! Thanks again for an awesome show and good to see Martin again!
@rhyfelur Oh, sorry, were you asking the reason they do it or the origins of it?
How about this one? "I'm a card carrying Atheist" instead of the word devout.
Did you read that back before you posted? If I watch a TV program about a political belief, am I necessarily agreeing with all the arguments or beliefs presented? Would I be worshipping that party/politician/political creed?
Your justification of religion boils down to an argument that not all religious people are bad - which almost every atheist would agree with. The fact that some good is done by religious people, or that religion's aren't all bad, is not the same as religion is not bad.
For me the Yule is not religious, just a nice time with family, to relax and have a good time.
@finalcloud13
Martin look really different. Did he loose weight too?
"A finite thing cannot bring about a finite thing."
So what can a finite thing create? Is not your favorite movie finite? Are movie producers infinite beings?
If a god is changeless and "outside of time" it cannot create anything for two reasons:
1) Without time, no decisions are possible. Decision making is necessarily a function of time. There has to be a time/space event point "A" which the being chooses to do something at a point "B". Without duration (time) this is not possible.
2) Making a decision is a change in mental state, thus a "changeless" thing cannot make this change in it's mental state.
Saying : "everything that has a begining has a cause" is Right, but the question is "Does the universe has a beginning".
Then if we define "the universe" as "everything that exists" we can question the validity of the concept of "begining" concerning this universe. Because the concept of begining we experience is only the begining of thing within the universe. Does this concept makes sense vis a vis the universe defined as "everything that exists" ? Obviously not.
Too all you people noticing Martin's beard, NO NEED TO comment, it's already said 500 times, you're not having an original comment. Talk about something relevant.
Is that Martin or Arn Anderson?
If it is conscious it can't be changeless, because a changeless mind doesn't work... Also a mind with desires that exists forever does not work either. Minds only work within time since information has to pass, and thus time only allows information to pass through the mind. So it can't be timeless, it can't be changeless, and it has desires (creating the universe). That means If it is at least infinite - creating requires a point in time and why this and not any time before or after...
Wow, that was frustrating.
It was my birthday as well on that day; on December 11.
6:25 for callers
56:35 best line ever: "Ah! Suddenly reason has occupied my brain."
@southmcl Thank you! =D
@xebek LOL. I kind of like this idea of the Devil trying to torture Hitchens, who just responds by intellectually and boldy debating his way out of it. Who could fear the Devil over Hitchens...
@Scarletpooky Scary thing is he wouldn't be the only guy I've heard of that that's happened to. I've heard of other churches throwing people out because they're not supposed to question anything. It's "blasphemy". That is so stupid.