The Atheist Experience 751 with Matt Dillahunty and Jen Peeples
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- Опубликовано: 6 окт 2024
- The Atheist Experience 751 for March 4, 2012 with Matt Dillahunty and Jen Peeples.
SHOW TIME-STAMPS
00:44- Intro & Announcements - Matt Dillahunty
05:30- Matt Dillahunty on emails about contraception
13:44- Clint: religious authorities attacking human rights and trying to make laws, putting your faith in anything, matter is energy, identifying tension in relationships is possibly a sign of the supernatural
31:11- Jonathan (theist from episode 728 and 745): believes in an “unfalsifiable” god because it makes him happy and won't hurt anyone, belief is a choice, what would he gain from atheism
56:46- Kevin: references Eric from the previous episode, something coming from something
You can read more about this episode on the Atheist Experience blog:
► freethoughtblog...
This episode of The Atheist Experience (topic: "Viewer Calls") is archived on Ustream.tv:
► www.ustream.tv/...
WHAT IS THE ATHEIST EXPERIENCE?
The Atheist Experience is a weekly cable access television show in Austin, Texas geared at a non-atheist audience. The Atheist Experience is produced by the Atheist Community of Austin.
The Atheist Community of Austin is organized as a nonprofit educational corporation to develop and support the atheist community, to provide opportunities for socializing and friendship, to promote secular viewpoints, to encourage positive atheist culture, to defend the first amendment principle of state-church separation, to oppose discrimination against atheists and to work with other organizations in pursuit of common goals.
We define atheism as the lack of belief in gods. This definition also encompasses what most people call agnosticism.
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MUSIC CREDITS
Theme song: "Listen to Reason," written and performed by Bryan Steeksma.
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NOTES
TheAtheistExperience is a fan appreciation channel on RUclips.
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Creative Commons license: BY, NC, SA
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"There is no bigger fool than the fool who discovers a lie, yet still believes it." - Doug Parmenter
I sincerely hope that this is the last time the AE will accept a call from Jonathan. That thread is exhausted.
"If you say unfalsifiable one more time I'm hanging up. Stop wasting my time." - Dillahunty
Yeah. Relig-tards get carried away with the idea of unfalsifiability.
If I claim the TOOTH FAIRY exists... try falsifying THAT.
@imation879 "Josephus Flavius, the Jewish historian, lived as the earliest non-Christian who mentions a Jesus. Although many scholars think that Josephus' short accounts of Jesus (in Antiquities) came from interpolations perpetrated by a later Church father (most likely, Eusebius), Josephus' birth in 37 C.E., puts him out of range of an eyewitness account. Moreover, he wrote Antiquities in 93 C.E., after the first gospels got written! Therefore his information could only serve as hearsay."
and could easily be based on the gospels rather than hearsay
To be a Christian who also believed he had a vision that was true, Clint is very open minded, I think. Because someone in his position would very often be a hardcore believer, but he didn't let what appeared to be true outweigh tons of physical evidence. So bravo to Clint for being a logical thinker.
"I am no longer willing to believe something because it simply feels right, or feels good because I understand that I can be fooled, and I can be wrong.
I need to take the steps to find out what the actual answer is, and if I am unable to find the answer I am in a position of "I don't know".
I am NOT justified in my claiming my lack of understanding, or my inability to find a better answer justifies any kind of supernatural explanation, or one that just seems to "fit"." Matt Dillahunty
Christopher Harper Ah. Plussed you. Thought it was your statement. Then got to the point in the vid where Matt said it. But you may keep the plus for your transcription. Well, 80% of it. I'm docking you two tenths for not using quotation marks and leaving the attribution at just "MD". But, rounding up: still 1.0 thumbs.
Christopher Harper Hi Chris. Thanks for taking that well. I too love language and playing with it. Words...those that exist and others I make up.
Not sure what you meant by the cross reference. Or "lifting" language.
Bruce Baker Ok, I edited it for clarity.
Thanks.
Christopher Harper Hi again Chris.
Don't sweat this. Just mentioning it cuz I'm getting odd input.
I don't note any substantive change in the OP. And, though I see your second reply (and all my comments), your first comment has vanished.
As I said, don't sweat it. Just go forth and be awesome. Ciao
Yeah, that is because I thought you were still commenting on my other comment about "Fire".
lol
I had just woke up and it took me a bit to sort that this was a completely different comment.
Hopefully Matt and Jen's sacrifice by withstanding the "waste of time" harm of Jonathan will help other people realize that rational thought is imperative for a peaceful sane world.
Thanks a lot for putting the time Stamps in the description. Much appreciated.
You did finally answer his question about "what difference does my belief actually make". The biggest problem with believing in a religion is the loss of self. The next biggest problem is the justification for evil deeds that can be done without good reason.
I honestly can't believe the patience Matt and Jen demonstrated with the second guy... I mean he wasn't being disrespectful in any way, but surely they didn't need to waste half the show on him when it was painfully obvious that he clearly wasn't able to see the pointlessness in trying to justify a belief in something unfalsifiable...
But good on them for being really good sports and incredibly respectful.
It's like a deja-vu experience. I hear arguments and discussions we had here in Europe 50 years ago.
Fantasy is good in small doses, being lost in fantasy seems dangerous.
Everyone should be held to a 10 minute time limit.
Especially when the argument continues in circles.
Hmmmmm....
thank you!:D wish we had a show like this in sweden^^
Jen and Matt. This is my fav combo of Atheist Experience.
Don and Matt are great as well
Also, thanks for putting in the times when the calls start and such, it's very helpful!
Matt always makes these episodes great.
I appreciate that you guys spent the time to discuss with the one caller who is questioning his own beliefs.
I feel like a lot of people start to see pain points in where they were raised and begin to have their own questions and reactions and it's often good to just try to understand where they are coming from. I hope the gentleman caller continues to search for answers wherever they might be.
y'know you know you know you know like you know its like yeah you know
oh dear... I've gone through most of my life believing Im not particularly intellegent but frankly I don't think I've given myself enough credit... thanks for the show
My sentiments entirely.
you can't prove bigfoot doesn't exist. therefore, can I assert its existence.
cool, bro... have at it.
Jeff Connors Bigfoot his for your sins. Praise Wendigo! In Yeti’s name!
First caller. Good point. "Blessing" food (saying grace) made no sense to him.
"People...maybe Christian, maybe atheist or Hindu...developed the seeds.
"People...maybe Jewish, maybe Sikh...grew those seeds into plants.
"People...maybe Mormon, maybe Scientologist...raised the cattle, etc.
"...packaged and butchered...
"...transported...stored...sold...cooked...
"...and I traded some of the money I earned through my own effort & expertise to buy it...
"so thank you God, for "providing" this food for our use"
I see a lot of people in that process. And I see God nowhere in it.
"God helps those who help themselves". So...eliminate the middleman.
+Bruce Baker it's about humility before nature and realizing how fragile is civilization. your words are those of a fat westerner who has never lived through war, siege or famine. what's worse he has no intrinsic connection to his ancestors' experience, who have.
also, Jewish farmers, yeah right.
My son was ten he said to me, ''How did Adam and Eve learn to walk and eat and stuff like that?''. ''It's sad they was never children and never played too'', so you learn that stuff when we are little that's weird''. I don't think my Son ever truly believed in the fairytale God.
There is SO much ground that needs to be covered in each call, each theistic caller demanding their own 'reasoning' to understand an atheist mindset. I'm enthralled by what gets discussed on this show and only wish that it were longer / more regular.
Good job guys +1 for reason and oranges alike.
The guy was kind of right. He chose what he wanted to believe, and didn't care if it was wrong.
Thank you guys for the responses, I respect science & am very fascinated by all new discoveries, progressions made, & how anatomy works as well. To ME, with all due respect, Atheism is another type of belief system. From observations, I can see that any belief system consists of truth finding & ultimately boils down to the conditioning of what that person interjects & retains in their metal aspect & in turn will disavows any outside conjectures. "we are never wrong" in our own mind set.
haha religion go home your drunk!
Matt: "Congratulations, you've defined a tautology and wasted an hour." Great stuff.
topic times at the description, is an excellent idea :D
I was recently asked by a believer whether I prefer to either be happy or to be right. I actually wanted to face palm. What an asinine question!
One of the biggest indicators as to how empathetic we are as a species, IMO, is our eyes. If you compare our eyes to the eyes of almost every other animal, what stands out? The whites of our eyes. Those things really draw your attention. In most animals, having dark eyes allows them to hide better. The fact that humans have white eyes is a huge indicator that social selection has overcome any predatory selection. It is vastly important to our genetic reproduction that we are able to spot other humans instantly, see where they are looking, read their emotions, and so on. This carries beyond eyes to facial expressions and body language as well, but is less obvious than the eye. We are very attuned to each other. We read each other for intent and emotions so much that we don't even think about it. This knowledge just forms in our brains with hardly any effort. Since it all happens without (much) conscious effort, people attribute this ability to supernatural sources, but it really is just human nature.
Timothy Edgar
Good read
I love Jen, she is so smart! Seriously, Matt should give more space to co-hosts!
The first time a company tries to discriminate against their employees due to their religious beliefs, the law will be overturned. One thing about America is that your medical records are NO ONE'S BUSINESS but yours, your doctor's, and your insurance company. In fact, the only way I believe you can gain access to someone's medical records is through a subpoena, and I doubt any judge would actually sign a subpoena so a company can see if their employee is using birth control.
I've been watching the last couple of AEs to see if they were going to touch on some of the religious/political craziness (esp the contraception issue) ongoing in the current election season. I'd like to hear an open atheist discuss these issues on the MSM but they seem to be in short supply. Glad to see Matt and Jen decided to cover it.
@thenakedatheist hey. You mentioned about believing in afterlife might make one value this life less - I am severely disabled and have brain damage. I am newly atheist, but when I was Christian I was told I would have a fully working body in heaven, and I neglected the body I have now, even in its disabled state. I had been told I was stupid and didn't have much to look forward to. Now I am studying at open university, and every moment is precious despite the pain. Christianity diminished me, a
I am god because you can't disprove it. Please form a queue and bring a $100 "seed" offering.
Yours Sincerely, God
What is the evidence that you are god?
@@agimasoschandir You don't need evidence, you have faith.
@@insanetester1015 OK. So,, its OK to believe in fairies? I ask, because I know at least one person who does, or did, have not seen them in awhile. You see, you can believe anything without evidence. As for faith, what do you mean?
Belief without evidence is what faith is
I would add the comedy bits by Patton Oswald about religion. Funny but also very insightful too.
And Eddie Izzard and Ricky Gervais. Also try Tim Minchin, such as Thank You God song
I used to not like the theme song but more and more it's growing on me.
Jonathan... that is gullibility in a nutshell
Matt:"I swear to your god..."
Now one of my favorite quotes.
The simplest and most logical solution to the objections some businesses have toward paying health care insurance is to replace health insurance with a national health service. The U.S. is the only industrial nation that has no national health service.
I was having hard time to grasp the concept that Matt has been saying: "Do you care whether the things you believe are true?" So when the answer is "Yes" I think that the second question should be something like "How do you know that your beliefs are true?" - at least this way it will lead to a meaningful conversation.
A lovely fart occurs at 42:52
Yes, there was a fart
Don't imprison yourself with labels. Remember, just because something is true does not make it more valued or better, those are subjective labels. It is as it is, absolutes have nothing to do with positive or negative, unless perceived through social, cultural, scientific, religious, humanistic or any other anthropomorphic scope. Condescension is a turbulent tightrope.
Jonathan: “It’s given me hope and happiness.”
Then he should stop lying about caring about the truth.🤡
@robinvan1983 Yes, I've purchased individual health insurance. Look up the definition. "Insurance" is meant to protect the insured against the UNexpected. Unless there is an unexpected medical need for contraception, such a provision can not be construed as insurance. Socialized medical care is merely another program to forcibly distribute wealth. Insurance is rational. Socialized medical care is irrational.
-- But it's unfalsifiable! *sound of shotgun blast in a face*
I fucking love you guys and this show.
The government DOES direct how I do my job. There are specifications I need to follow, there are legal standards for the materials I work with, and there are a bunch of OSEH guidelines I need to legally obey for safety reasons.
Contraception is a prescription medication that treats medical conditions on top of preventing pregnancy. What if an employee had lupus and the employer decided for some arbitrary reason not to cover that particular treatment?
@TheAtheistExperience
The moment Clint said he was studying chiropracty, I expected the woo that followed - and I wasn't disappointed: Matter isn't matter but is really energy, vibes, etc. Woo, woo,WOO.
I'm surprised Matt didn't catch on to that but let him go on preaching for so long.
Beliefs are choices to conscious individuals.
Idea for a commercial. A kid goes to high school for the first time. He's walking down the hall and he's passing by a group of other kids huddled in the corner. One of the kids from the group says "Hey, hey you" and motions for him to come over. The kid, wanting to make friends joins the group. The kid who called him over says "Hey dude, you want one?" and the camera pans in, and they've all got a bible in their hands. The original kid just smiles, says no and walks away. "Religion. Just say no"
i like matts way of thinking
jonathan has created a "god" he can keep safe in a vault, forever protected against investigation by pesky skeptics, all because he also wants to believe in life after death, which he keeps in the same vault. all because jonathan cannot tolerate doubt.
@thenakedatheist .. Atheism freed me. I use what I have got and I appreciate everything much more. Take care
Absolutely, forgive me.
Jen at the end asking "What's hopeful about that?" - this is just hypnotic but so true. I hate when the caller lost and never replied to that question.
Theories hold an exalted place within science. In science, for an idea to reach the status of theory (not just hypothesis), it must go through a prohibitively rigorous examination by a whole community of scientists whose job it is to DISPROVE the idea. If an idea has gone through this lengthy process and still holds up, it reaches the exalted status of "scientific theory." Scientific theories make predictions that can be shown to be true through observation and evidence.
The point is where did the wind come from. The 'world' for that matter
Joy, there are people like me! Love this show!
When it comes to the contraception issue... he is right. It is not a matter of religious liberty. But it is a matter of the government over stepping their bounds.
Is The Atheist Experience a great show, or the GREATEST SHOW??!!!
Love yo faces!
The caller reminded me of a documentary called Jesus Camp
It seems like Jonathan's definition for what he called "active belief" is closer to the definition of "self delusion".
I think even without knowing the details of Jonathan's life, it wouldn't be unfair to suggest that his belief in an afterlife will likely cause him to value this life less. Of course he'd probably say "you don't know my life" if this were pointed out to him, but I think we know enough about human nature to make that assertion without having to know the details of his life specifically.
I have no time for people who don't care about the truth. And neither does society.
Early man could only imagine a superbeing being able to create something. They had nothing to guide them, and plumped for the easiest solution. Especially following a disaster/famine/disease. They probably tied those kinds of things to being some kind of punishment, and then the fear grew along with superstition.
Never heard the saying "on the first day, man created god"?
Why didn’t Jonathon just eat a make-believe orange?
It should have given him equal pleasure.
thats true. some dont know that the truth wont change if you believe otherwise.
Just for clarification, scientific theories are not assumptions or hypotheses. Scientists create scientific theories with the scientific method, when they are originally proposed as hypotheses and tested for accuracy through observations and experiments. Once a hypothesis is verified, it becomes a theory.
Usually Matt is a lot quicker to the disconnect button. I can't believe he didn't hang up on the guy after just a few minutes. That guy was all over the place, and took a long time to say a whole bunch of nothing.
Logic is a method for evaluating the POSITIVE existential claims (the assertion that something DOES exist). The burden of proof is upon those who MAKE claims to offer sufficient evidence as to WHY those claims are reasonable, and thus WHY others should accept them as true.
The caller Johnathan I feel sorry for him. He seems to really believe in God based on his emotions, but based on reason, he is coming to the realization that he can't justify that believe and desperately wants to find a solution quickly but can't.
if a pharmacist from a local privately owned pharmacy sells condoms/contraceptives but one of the employers finds it insults their religious sensibilities, can they simply say they are not going to sell it?
In regards to Jonathan, why is Matt using logic and reason to what is obviously an emotional appeal? Logic and reason do not work because emotions are inherently illogical.
best reference ever
Matt's opinion of compelling employers to cover medical products and services is proof that merely being an atheist is no assurance that that person is rational in all aspects of their life.
It's harmful to believe that something is true just because it makes you feel good, because that belief could make potentially harmful actions more likely to occur.
If someone believes that on their next birthday, they are going to find a treasure chest with a million dollars inside, then it may cause them to not save their money throughout the year, and cause them to experience a crushing feeling of disappointment when their birthday arrives.
Everything you believe has an effect on your life, and a belief that is not based on a foundation of evidence, will make actions based on foundation without evidence more likely.
Jonathan's belief could result in him not trying to have the best life he can on Earth, because he believes that a better one is waiting for him.
I understand that, matter is not energy (because of massless particles), you misread what I wrote, BUT MASS and ENERGY are a different manifestation of the same thing.
You said :"This does not mean that there is more matter when the mass increases due to velocity, just more mass". I totally AGREE with that, I know that, it's easy to understand.
So far we agree on the same things you just misunderstood me. My question is: do you know why massless particles are not consider matter.
May we all have good reasons to keep smiling
@willzyx1980
That issue is an issue of fairness. If a business offers a healthcare plan that covers Viagra, then by rights they also have to offer contraception. Otherwise it is discrimination in favor of men and against women. But more importantly, it's the topic on which the decision is made. A religious organization cannot discriminate against potential employees because they don't believe in their religion. By that same token, they cannot force their belief on others.
They really should have a boom mike as a backup to the Lavalier microphones.
Correctrix mic
What if it was against someone's religion to pay people more than $4/hour?
I'm so tired of callers like Jonathan who want to justify their beliefs in wonky, sideways talk.
Matt must have been in a good mood to keep him on the line for so long. I mean, he claims that he'd hang up if he said "unfalsifiable" one more time, only for Jon to say it not five seconds later and is allowed to prattle on some more.
Johnathan is unfalsifiably Harry Connick Jr..
Sorry for the exceptionally long delay in response, don't really check mail as often..lol
you know, your response is very interesting and entertaining (sincerely speaking) . It almost sounds like a religious view. I can respect that as well, I don't hate.
@abamguy I don't understand the skeptic's thing against chiropractors. I go to one regularly, and it always makes me feel better. It re-aligns your spine and stuff.
in laymen's terms, they guess and presume a possible solution by conducting test with the end results being left in assumption till more information is discovered. Even though my statement may not be 100% on point, it still hold's relevant to Atheist belief systems, I can respect their beliefs.
That difference between subjective value beliefs and a NONOBJECTIVE belief in God, is that the subjective value beliefs attach to OBJECTIVE things. Therefore, the logical basis of that subjective value preference can be evaluated in terms of the consequences of its objective attachment, unlike a purely subjective preference to believe in, say, God.
The contraception issue is a big thing. A lot of people who aren't specifically religious actually support this measure as they think it's a freedom of religion thing. It isn't however because, as Matt stated, these are secular businesses. This would be EXACTLY as insane as if a Jehovah's Witness owned hospital refused to perform blood transfusions or transplants. The rationale and REASONS are exactly the same.
Yes, it's true in any scientific analysis, but it if you take away the complexity of those tests, it still boils down to presumptions which stem back to what transpired at the big bang "theory". It's still interesting, considering that everything had a beginning and how things progressed/evolved to where there is gravity, thought process, laws of physics, so on so forth. Yet, nothing can be left as is, someone eager enough will try to find new facts & theories. Endless cycle of "truth finding"
@willzyx1980 This has nothing to do with "right to private property". He said if your religion stops you from providing your employees healthcare, then you shouldn't be running a business. If your religion interferes with providing your employees benefits, that is bad.
It is most definitely ILLEGAL for a business to CHOOSE the people they want to work with on religious grounds. It is religious discrimination.
Right on, thanks. I suppose I should have known that as I'm in pharmacology :s
I could make the decision to believe I can fly and go test it, even if I just plummeted to the earth, the belief in flight would still be there.
my fave two hosts :)
That's great, made me smile. :D
I think anyone who believes in an after life hasn't analyzed the consequences of how that life would work or what it would be like. For example many assume that the soul can exist seperate from a body, but I ask, what fuels it? Where does the soul get it's energy to do or act? Everything we know in this universe requires energy to function. How could something function without energy input? You can't just make something up or claim it doesn't require fuel. That would add more uncertainty.
The argument Johnathan is making is that in unfalsifiable situation it is preferable (at least for him) to believe in a deity. It's kind of pointless to try and argue against this since it is purely based on preference. Obviously the logical reaction is to reserve judgement, but some people won't accept that and will believe anyway and you can't change their mind. I just don't understand how someone can believe in something that can't be determined.
Lots of people are talking to me about that show, it sounds awesome.
I will definitely use both "I swear to your god" and "oh your god" nice way to transform those old reflexes. I guess between atheists we can also use "I swear to there god"
Oops, sorry, sloppy reading on my part!! Sorry. I guess that I always have so much push back on this that I've developed a knee jerk reaction. I personally do not claim to know if objects such as photons are composed of matter. I'm not certain that anyone knows.