You can prove the falsehood of anything that is demonstrably falsifiable. Its nonexistence - i.e. being false - doesn't make it unfalsifiable. Any claim which is untestable, particularly that which by definition cannot be tested, is unfalsifiable.
What a good discussion. I like when the hosts talk to better understand each other and this call is especially good because the caller is smart, articulate, and sincere.
At 38:14 "I believe it because I hope for it to be true" This reminds me of (the) Wizard's First Rule, one of my favorite quotes (slightly paraphrased): "People will believe almost anything because they want to believe it's true, or because they are afraid it might be true."
devin as queen isabella: "i'm sorry captain columbus, but i won't finance your expedition because if you sail off the edge of the earth, i might as well hand my crown and scepter to the pope ..."
I think they were missing the point of attack on the second caller. They should have continued asking "Why do you think God's existence is unfalsifiable?", "Why do you believe in a soul?" and just kept asking questions until he was forced to accept that he didn't have any evidence for any of his beliefs, upon which his belief in God is based.
"When somebody asserts a god exists, they are supporting the foundation of something that is a religion that bombs buildings." - Tracie Harris Matt has an amazing mind...BUT TRACIE FOR THE WIN!!!!
The main problem is faith: belief without evidence. If you're willing to accept something with no evidence (or something there couldn't possibly be evidence for) then what aren't you willing to accept and believe?
Jonathan is an atheist in the making...that conversation should be the poster child argument for helping the majority of theists see past their wishful thinking and look at the world the way it is... Awesome show y'all...the best one this year by far
Contrary to what the last caller said , IGNORANCE is what religious fundamentalists thrive on. Understanding the origins of the Universe (which is not inherently unknowable I've no idea how she can say that) gives us infinite power in the form of knowledge, that's where fundamentalism will die.
"You could say that angels hold us to the ground as an explanation for gravity" That would be an interesting one because it would imply that angels have a real burning hatred for people who walk off of tall objects....
Bruce Baker Haha indeed it is. Purity, or grace, or power, or fire, like souls on fire...No let downs, no back offs, no rests, just blazing. Great callers, great conversations, great answers. It is recent jargon indeed. =)
Christopher Harper Thanks. I'm in my fifties. Not exactly "trying to stay current". But I enjoy words. Using them. Understanding how others use them. Observing the ebb & flow. Cheers, mate.
That Devin guy doesn't seem to realize that if the big bang thery was found to be not true in the scientific community, it would probably be because there was a much better and more proveable explanation.
I've been watching these videos for days and days almost nonstop now, and this is probably the episode that makes me most uncomfortable. The reason is that although I agree with the notion that evidence is important when it comes to accepting assertions, having a supernatural belief in the interim is not inherently harmful. It's harmful when that belief leaks out and is used as an excuse to harm others, and it is harmful when, in the face of evidence against the belief, the person refuses to let go of it, but I just don't see how, say, believing that fairies live in your garden can be at all harmful. Sure, it's eccentric. It's a bit weird. But it isn't like the person is trying to convince others that it's true, or forcing their neighbours to leave out dishes of cream for them or something. Just because we skeptics cannot believe things without evidence, doesn't mean that everyone is even *capable* of believing only proven things. There are people out there, as evidenced in a lot of the callers to this show, that can't seem to even comprehend the skeptical mindset. That doesn't mean that we should stop trying to get them to understand it, but it also doesn't mean that we should assume that they have the cranial ability to be 100% evidence-driven.
Natalie, its a great point and a relevant question but .... and there is a "but"- the caller should have been asked how his beliefs affect his day-to-day conduct and interaction with others - and how that conduct might change if his beliefs were taken away. For example, If his beliefs were typically Christian , he would have to believe that Matt and Tracie deserved to burn in hell, forever - that kind of thinking creates an irreparable rift between individuals, regardless of whether he "tries" to impose his beliefs or not - also, Hazydawn's point, above, is irrefutable - if a person makes decisions in life which are not based on reason, their every decision and interaction with others is dangerous, on a daily basis - Abraham's willingness to sacrifice his son to God , at a moment's notice is an example of such a danger of unthinking devotion to a dogma , without reason - just a thought :))
i concur , the first part of deprograming someone is to show them they are programed. i also believe that mind control techniques are useless when you become aware of them and realize when they are being used .boghossians new book making atheist talks about how to take apart the faith by attacking faith not religion.
The way Tracie describes god and soul at 7:23 was precicely how I felt before I started questioning. I just thought God is Love because it was a nice thing to think or say, and our church had it on the wall on a plaque :) Nobody was arguing about anything or getting worked up it was just a place we met and it was very relaxing. I will miss that part, but I cant today justify the overall claims.
I love what Matt said about religion and politics because I totally agree. I don't have a problem with a religious president. Where it becomes a problem for me is when their religion is going to affect every decision they make even if it would have a really bad outcome. That I would have a problem with. A president that's religious, but understands they're running a free country and not a church I have no problem with.
Great show - my 2 favorite hosts! Tracie is so awesome. Since Tracy & Matt both come from a theist background, can sure understand and empathize with the struggle one can go thru on their journey from theism to atheism.
I have the same story as Tracie has I was indoctrinated into it. I was baptized at the point to when I questioned religion, then I questioned others beliefs on the sabbath and other things. It just really put me in a spot to where I would not like people based on their belief. After taking anthropology in highschool and my understanding of evolution really drove me out. Fortunately it didn't take me 10 years.
Little point to Devin... Georges Lemaitre...the Priest that Devine mentioned, was also a trained Physicist, and he formulated his theory based on Scientific Evidence, not the Genesis account, and he actually rejected the idea that there was any connection between the Big Bang Theory and the Biblical account of Genesis...and he even tried to get the Pope to STOP trying to link the two.
I find it funny that Matt sometimes glances down at his two favourite buttons on that control panel of theirs, the hold and the hang-up button, whenever the caller wont shut up : D
My experience was similar to Tracies... My exit from 'fundyism' was early, but my exit from 'god' was a long hard struggle. I was repulsed from fundyism towards mysticism and sprituality. I was convinced that the 'mystics' of all times and climes..had the true picture of god. I even had my own 'spiritual' experiences for self confirmation. But in the end the neuralogical explanations made more sense than the mystical. Ironically, it was the unceasing search for truth that freed me.
great episode. my two favourite hosts, and my favourite type of calls - the ones where they disagree with the callers are more fun. delighted ruben's still around - matt's exasperation with him is a treat. the last caller's attitude was bizarre, but it was an interesting call because hers is a position i haven't heard expressed on the show before - and one weakeness in TAE is that it goes over the same ground a bit too much. id like that caller to ring back and flesh out her thoughts a bit more
This was the best episode in a long time! I feel for the caller who just believes in life after death and meeting god then. He has moved away from religion, but can't seem to let go of that last lingering belief. Perhaps he is afraid. I was afraid because I wondered where my dead family members were, and it brought comfort to think I would see them again, but I realised I had no good reason to believe that. Also, no-one can disprove that me electric wheelchair isn't actually powered by invisibl
indeed but the points you made were a rebuttal to the sentence ' evolution requires fossils' not 'fossils require evolution'. the sentence means: to ensure that the fossil progression becomes a coherent part of the understanding of life you need the theory of evolution, not to notice the change, but give a sense to the change. i'm saying that you need the bigger picture to understand the role of the pieces, almoust a tautology. this was my point, not the other way around
Black holes actually evaporates via two opposite gamma ray streams perpendicular to the seemingly inside disc shape, so yes, it's a speculation to say that it's density is infinite. A black hole will eventually disappear.
Has anyone been converted to Atheism on this show? I would love to be linked directly to the part where the caller called in, and the subsequent conversation. I soooooooo want to listen to the possible conversation taking place. Thanks =)
i tryed, but it says 'the video is not available'. i don't know why, if you could just tell me the title, please. i'm interested. but it seems so strange that i said something wrong, i wonder where is the mistake
I feel bad for Jonathan's baby. "Now, son/daughter, here's something that will make you happy. Believe it, whether it's true or not, evidence or no, just because it will make you happy! YAY!!" Fuck....and he can vote...and reproduce.
I like that lady's comments late in the show. I get her reasoning. She is saying that the "religious" need for an understanding of "the beginning" is driving the conflict, and that is an urge rooted in religion. I get it. It's just not that important a point, bit interesting to consider, as is the "reason why" we explore any area of inquiry.
If Jonathan believes that he will only know if the deity is real after death, how did the belief start when only people who are dead would have known.. How did it get from the dead to the living? Who or what thing that was dead or in the realm after human death told the living about the god that you will experience after death? Confuses me so much.
![SahBabii - Viking [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/D37cL92JX0I/mqdefault.jpg)
Caller: "My beliefs dont harm anyone"
Matt: "Its making me sad that you're irrational, you are harming me"
Classic!
“Why shouldn’t I believe it when it makes me happy?”. Because you’re not 3 anymore. Grow up, Jonathan.
if you think happiness is more important than truth then you are not acting with integrity.
Hopefully that’s true and it’s not just something that makes you happy.
I think that’s true, which makes me happy. I’m not sure how much integrity I have.
Ķķķkkk@@oggyoggy1299
First time I watched this show, my reaction was: "There are atheists in Texas?"
crazy huh!
I thought brockback mountain was the entire state.
Don't get out much dewwwwya
You cannot prove the nonexistence of something that does not exist. This is why God cannot be demonstrably falsified.
You can prove the falsehood of anything that is demonstrably falsifiable. Its nonexistence - i.e. being false - doesn't make it unfalsifiable. Any claim which is untestable, particularly that which by definition cannot be tested, is unfalsifiable.
Anybody else think Tracie looks like Ripley from Alien? xD
Yes kinda, or the villain in Poltergeist 2. :P
no
no
Craig Johnson yes
Craig Johnson not so much that she looks like her but she definitely reminds me of her and resembles her in a way.. I've noticed that for sure
Thanks for this show guys. You helped me make the last step from Deism to Atheism.
You're doing an amazing job.
What a good discussion. I like when the hosts talk to better understand each other and this call is especially good because the caller is smart, articulate, and sincere.
At 38:14
"I believe it because I hope for it to be true"
This reminds me of (the) Wizard's First Rule, one of my favorite quotes (slightly paraphrased):
"People will believe almost anything because they want to believe it's true, or because they are afraid it might be true."
Huh? Being afraid something is true would make one WANT to believe it?
How does that work?
devin as queen isabella: "i'm sorry captain columbus, but i won't finance your expedition because if you sail off the edge of the earth, i might as well hand my crown and scepter to the pope ..."
Tracy as a great way of displaying tolerance and understanding while asserting reason and logic.
Poor Jonathan of Arlington can only be described as living in cloud cuckoo land. He cannot differentiate between hope and reality.
Jonathan: “Even non-belief is a form of belief.”
A new low for religious apologists.🤤
He must think a fake Rolex is a type of Rolex.
Yeah, and not having a disease is a type of disease. (a non-disease) 🤣
I think they were missing the point of attack on the second caller. They should have continued asking "Why do you think God's existence is unfalsifiable?", "Why do you believe in a soul?" and just kept asking questions until he was forced to accept that he didn't have any evidence for any of his beliefs, upon which his belief in God is based.
"When somebody asserts a god exists, they are supporting the foundation of something that is a religion that bombs buildings." - Tracie Harris
Matt has an amazing mind...BUT TRACIE FOR THE WIN!!!!
The main problem is faith: belief without evidence. If you're willing to accept something with no evidence (or something there couldn't possibly be evidence for) then what aren't you willing to accept and believe?
How on earth can anyone believe something that they have no evidence for its fucking crazy
Jonathan is an atheist in the making...that conversation should be the poster child argument for helping the majority of theists see past their wishful thinking and look at the world the way it is...
Awesome show y'all...the best one this year by far
these two have great chemistry... its obvious that they are really good friends
*sigh* About that...
Contrary to what the last caller said , IGNORANCE is what religious fundamentalists thrive on. Understanding the origins of the Universe (which is not inherently unknowable I've no idea how she can say that) gives us infinite power in the form of knowledge, that's where fundamentalism will die.
"You could say that angels hold us to the ground as an explanation for gravity" That would be an interesting one because it would imply that angels have a real burning hatred for people who walk off of tall objects....
That last caller was all over the place. Nothing is worse than someone who just wants to argue but doesn't hold an actual position on anything.
"I choose to hang up on your ass" Ha ha ha that one had me rolling :D
Fear of death is strong with this one, nothing to be ashamed about, but not a reason to be irrational
This episode is fire!
Christopher Harper Just curious. Is "fire" the new "money" or "sweet" or "phat"? ie jargon for "superlative compliment".
Bruce Baker
Haha indeed it is.
Purity, or grace, or power, or fire, like souls on fire...No let downs, no back offs, no rests, just blazing. Great callers, great conversations, great answers.
It is recent jargon indeed.
=)
Christopher Harper Thanks. I'm in my fifties. Not exactly "trying to stay current". But I enjoy words. Using them. Understanding how others use them. Observing the ebb & flow.
Cheers, mate.
That Devin guy doesn't seem to realize that if the big bang thery was found to be not true in the scientific community, it would probably be because there was a much better and more proveable explanation.
My 2 favorite hosts =)
Lt Ripley and Captain Dallas at their stations 😅
Nice one and I would very much like to see Ripley's Jones.....
I believe that skeletons roam the world hiding in shadows.. It makes me feel good
The look on Tracie's face at 44:03 is priceless. She's a mom listening to her four year old's run-on story of what happened during their day.
I've been watching these videos for days and days almost nonstop now, and this is probably the episode that makes me most uncomfortable. The reason is that although I agree with the notion that evidence is important when it comes to accepting assertions, having a supernatural belief in the interim is not inherently harmful. It's harmful when that belief leaks out and is used as an excuse to harm others, and it is harmful when, in the face of evidence against the belief, the person refuses to let go of it, but I just don't see how, say, believing that fairies live in your garden can be at all harmful. Sure, it's eccentric. It's a bit weird. But it isn't like the person is trying to convince others that it's true, or forcing their neighbours to leave out dishes of cream for them or something.
Just because we skeptics cannot believe things without evidence, doesn't mean that everyone is even *capable* of believing only proven things. There are people out there, as evidenced in a lot of the callers to this show, that can't seem to even comprehend the skeptical mindset. That doesn't mean that we should stop trying to get them to understand it, but it also doesn't mean that we should assume that they have the cranial ability to be 100% evidence-driven.
Whoa, surrounding things with asterisks makes things bold now. *AWESOME*
Natalie, its a great point and a relevant question but .... and there is a "but"- the caller should have been asked how his beliefs affect his day-to-day conduct and interaction with others - and how that conduct might change if his beliefs were taken away. For example, If his beliefs were typically Christian , he would have to believe that Matt and Tracie deserved to burn in hell, forever - that kind of thinking creates an irreparable rift between individuals, regardless of whether he "tries" to impose his beliefs or not - also, Hazydawn's point, above, is irrefutable - if a person makes decisions in life which are not based on reason, their every decision and interaction with others is dangerous, on a daily basis - Abraham's willingness to sacrifice his son to God , at a moment's notice is an example of such a danger of unthinking devotion to a dogma , without reason - just a thought :))
Natalie Kirk learning something new is *awsome* thanks *SWEETIE*
i concur , the first part of deprograming someone is to show them they are programed. i also believe that mind control techniques are useless when you become aware of them and realize when they are being used .boghossians new book making atheist talks about how to take apart the faith by attacking faith not religion.
When you resort to name calling you kill any argument you may have had.
rubens been on the crack pipe!!! lol
He is a prankcaller.
Awesome to catch the show again.
The way Tracie describes god and soul at 7:23 was precicely how I felt before I started questioning. I just thought God is Love because it was a nice thing to think or say, and our church had it on the wall on a plaque :) Nobody was arguing about anything or getting worked up it was just a place we met and it was very relaxing. I will miss that part, but I cant today justify the overall claims.
"as long as it doesn't harm others"
I wished they'd have asked him if he is teaching his children to believe.
I love what Matt said about religion and politics because I totally agree. I don't have a problem with a religious president. Where it becomes a problem for me is when their religion is going to affect every decision they make even if it would have a really bad outcome. That I would have a problem with. A president that's religious, but understands they're running a free country and not a church I have no problem with.
Everything is unknowable if you’re determined to not try to know.
I like this new youtube feature to resume a long video after I've closed it once and come back to the page.
I always love the awkwardness at the beginning and the end of these vids... lol You guys rock! thank you so much!!!
Great show - my 2 favorite hosts! Tracie is so awesome. Since Tracy & Matt both come from a theist background, can sure understand and empathize with the struggle one can go thru on their journey from theism to atheism.
I vote Tracie and Matt the best combination of hosts...thumb up if you agree.
I have the same story as Tracie has I was indoctrinated into it. I was baptized at the point to when I questioned religion, then I questioned others beliefs on the sabbath and other things. It just really put me in a spot to where I would not like people based on their belief. After taking anthropology in highschool and my understanding of evolution really drove me out. Fortunately it didn't take me 10 years.
Wow, this was a great show, and Ruben was the funniest caller EVER! I hope he calls back next week :)
Good show guys.
I think we got somewhere with these calls. But this episode was amazing.
Little point to Devin...
Georges Lemaitre...the Priest that Devine mentioned, was also a trained Physicist, and he formulated his theory based on Scientific Evidence, not the Genesis account, and he actually rejected the idea that there was any connection between the Big Bang Theory and the Biblical account of Genesis...and he even tried to get the Pope to STOP trying to link the two.
Lol maybe they should try to freeze still at the end the end credits, like on Police Squad tv show
I find it funny that Matt sometimes glances down at his two favourite buttons on that control panel of theirs, the hold and the hang-up button, whenever the caller wont shut up : D
@Donal111 You sound like a deep thinker. I ponder these words of wisdom. Thanks for your contribution to this topic.
My experience was similar to Tracies... My exit from 'fundyism' was early, but my exit from 'god' was a long hard struggle. I was repulsed from fundyism towards mysticism and sprituality. I was convinced that the 'mystics' of all times and climes..had the true picture of god. I even had my own 'spiritual' experiences for self confirmation. But in the end the neuralogical explanations made more sense than the mystical. Ironically, it was the unceasing search for truth that freed me.
OMG! Ruben is back!!! I was expecting him to say "How many creatures are on the earth? 10 billion."
Please someone put Rubens call up as a clip!!!! That was the funniest call ever!!
Only half way through and already love this episode a whole lot.
I wish that Tracie and Matt would host every episode of The Atheist Experience. They do the best job across the board.
one of the best shows that I've seen in a longtime.
So glad matt became an atheist rather than a preacher. He would have been very very good at preaching religion and collecting sheep
Love the work guys =)
great episode. my two favourite hosts, and my favourite type of calls - the ones where they disagree with the callers are more fun. delighted ruben's still around - matt's exasperation with him is a treat. the last caller's attitude was bizarre, but it was an interesting call because hers is a position i haven't heard expressed on the show before - and one weakeness in TAE is that it goes over the same ground a bit too much. id like that caller to ring back and flesh out her thoughts a bit more
44:39 - 44:45 is the best part of this show
You guys really need some music or something while the credits roll... Looks kinda odd with you just sitting there staring at the camera ;p
This was the best episode in a long time! I feel for the caller who just believes in life after death and meeting god then. He has moved away from religion, but can't seem to let go of that last lingering belief. Perhaps he is afraid. I was afraid because I wondered where my dead family members were, and it brought comfort to think I would see them again, but I realised I had no good reason to believe that. Also, no-one can disprove that me electric wheelchair isn't actually powered by invisibl
@JustAnotherHumanist I thought I recognized the voice too. For a second there it looked like Matt thought he sounded familiar.
indeed but the points you made were a rebuttal to the sentence ' evolution requires fossils' not 'fossils require evolution'. the sentence means: to ensure that the fossil progression becomes a coherent part of the understanding of life you need the theory of evolution, not to notice the change, but give a sense to the change. i'm saying that you need the bigger picture to understand the role of the pieces, almoust a tautology. this was my point, not the other way around
Black holes actually evaporates via two opposite gamma ray streams perpendicular to the seemingly inside disc shape, so yes, it's a speculation to say that it's density is infinite. A black hole will eventually disappear.
One of the better episodes. Matt completely destroyed Jonathan's "arguments".
Good show, Matt and Tracie!
@SmallGreenPlanetoid Maybe? I might have to go back to earlier episodes and see. Maybe I'm just distracted today...
Daaam after the first call it just keeps getting dumber..
this was a great episode. Really good calls and good discussions.
Last one doesn't really work, as I've seen people get their hair "Cut bald" others are sound though.
@horbergus On point is a figure of speech. In this usage it likely means that he was quick witted, intelligent, and handled the callers really well.
Jonathan watches nascar for 2 hours and says this has the possibility of going round in circles.
You could hear ruben lugh at his own discussion... didn't he do that on other episode as well? why bring him back on?
Fossil evidence showing change does not entail dependanices for all evidence.
I don't know how I can make that any clearer.
Has anyone been converted to Atheism on this show? I would love to be linked directly to the part where the caller called in, and the subsequent conversation. I soooooooo want to listen to the possible conversation taking place. Thanks =)
i tryed, but it says 'the video is not available'. i don't know why, if you could just tell me the title, please. i'm interested. but it seems so strange that i said something wrong, i wonder where is the mistake
GR8 Episode 👍
I'm so happy every time these guys pop up in my subscription box n_n
Jonathan from Arlington just doesn't get it lol
I wonder if Matt, from the Stone church, calls still.
i very much enjoyed this episode
I love Tracie. Matt and Tracie are my favorite hosts.
Unfalsifiable is a statement about potential for future knowledge. I think the main caller meant "unfalsified".
i was watching them too.. all the the way through last 15 seconds.. silently...
@hgryphon I think he's regrown his beard since his last appearance? Maybe he trimmed it differently.
Great show thx for the upload.
they really need outro music to make it less awkward
@OkamsRazer Ah, it's all good. I just wasn't sure if you were proposing that argument or just using it as an example. :)
I feel bad for Jonathan's baby. "Now, son/daughter, here's something that will make you happy. Believe it, whether it's true or not, evidence or no, just because it will make you happy! YAY!!"
Fuck....and he can vote...and reproduce.
The second caller demonstrates a textbook example of "picking and chossing"
I like that lady's comments late in the show. I get her reasoning. She is saying that the "religious" need for an understanding of "the beginning" is driving the conflict, and that is an urge rooted in religion. I get it. It's just not that important a point, bit interesting to consider, as is the "reason why" we explore any area of inquiry.
@EarlRegent yes, I completely understand and agree with that, well put sir.
It's exhausting! The mental gymnastics that these religionauts go through, when they call in, are just painful!
You guys rock!
@TheTexanCanadian Indeed, he is just one 'leap of reason' away from being an atheist. Most of the calls were good this week.
If Jonathan believes that he will only know if the deity is real after death, how did the belief start when only people who are dead would have known.. How did it get from the dead to the living? Who or what thing that was dead or in the realm after human death told the living about the god that you will experience after death? Confuses me so much.
@Domzdream i think what they were saying was why follow something if u have no idea if it is true or not and believe it like it was truth.
That was the most circular argument I've ever heard
calls at 11:09,
although Tracie gives some of her own background in the beginning, worth watching.