Good idea. In addition, in future if you find that the column is not straight, you might be able to correct it by appropriately shimming that plate to bend or twist the column in the direction you need. One thing I would do differently is to put epoxy in between (with release agent on 1 of the 2) and finger tight the screws in place until it cures, then tighten. That would cancel out any variations of flatness between the column and the plate for a zero stress mount.
That epoxy trick is a really good idea! Steel isn't ideal of course, it's rigid sure but does not have good damping characteristics, if you wanted to really overbuild you could use a thinner plate to increase the column depth and then do an epoxy granite fill.
@@cda32 One downside with the steel is the difference in expansion with temperature. Its small but might have an effect. I think you might be able to help the damping characteristics of steel if it was layers of steel epoxied together in a sandwich, I think that would be hard to make that "ring".
AU is known for high prices on certain things but Chinese machines seem to be cheaper and generally higher quality models then what's available in the US. Of course we have precision Matthew and Tormach but IMO Tormach has priced their way out of reality on their 1100s and used they go for almost what they were new. The G0704 which was popular for a long time has become overpriced and is honestly underwhelming still using gears and brushed motor.
Forgot to mention that the ways on the G0704 are awful even compared to a Chinese mill I just picked up for $800 as a damaged unit that normally sold for just under $1200 which is a slightly scaled down G0704 design with similar Y travel and a bit less X. I have an older KX3 CNC I am rebuilding using the manual mill to aid in the upgrades.
I had a RF45 mill which was bought brand new as I didnt want the bother of inspecting second hand stuff with my at the time limited knowledge. It was an upsetting day when I first started to make test cuts with mildsteel at 1mm and hearing chatter if only I had found this great guide to adding some rigidity. My story still has a happy ending as I got a used BridgePort from a very nice chap that was retiring for a good price only downside is that moving something that is 1000Kg is a much harder task. Great video I liked the small lathe upgrade also.
I did almost the same thing to my LMS5500 SX2.7 I used a 4x6x0.25 steel tube hoping to get a huge improvement in both torsional and flexural rigidity. I mounted it roughly the same way and moved all the electronics into a new enclosure. I never did go back and measure the results but I am happy with it
You could also add some epoxy granite for more mass and vibration dampening. It’s small enough that you probably wouldn’t be able to add a lot, but you could probably add enough to make a difference. We used to add it to our Bridgeport’s back in the day and it really helped.
Definitely worthwhile in these smaller mills. I have the X2 with the tilting column and the column may as well have been a wet noodle out of the box. I ended up building a base from 3x3 square steel tubing from some old bench uprights. Before welding the two L shaped sections I filled them with epoxy granite. I added it so I would have a better way to mount my dro scale and give a better mounting point to tie the stiffening plate from the column to the base. I also filled the actual base and column with EG. It added somewhere in the neighborhood of 150lbs to the machine between the steel base, stiffening plate, the struts I added to help with deflection and EG fill. That doesn't sound like much in the world of machine tools but with machines this size adding that much dampening with the rigidity of the heavy steel base and column plate is a massive improvement I wouldn't have seen without flat out just buying a much larger mill.
@@stxrynn add which part? And yeah I filled the column. The X2 has a different column and electronics mounting set up but it should be similar to do on any mill. I used a piece of PVC epoxied inside to allow the giant pivot bolt to pass through and I modified the air shock mount so it no longer is inside the column.
@@jkalash762 I was asking Faker what they filled on the B-port. My old clone had an open bottom and a door in the side. I was kinda lost how you'd be able to fill that. On these smaller bench tops, I can see the EG as a boon for rigidity. I very nearly bought a new one, but found the BP clone for the same money. Thanks for the reply!!
For sure something like that is on the cards, especially in the big void underneath the base of the mill. I haven't done too much research into epoxy granite, I am aware there are various mixes, but once I figure it out I might end up doing it to the mill and lathe in some capacity
For check the improvement will be nice bend the column in all the direction BEFORE the upgrade and by dial indicator control how much bend. Repeat the same operation AFTER the improvement, only in this system it's possible check how much the improve it's really good.
Great improvement. As a structural engineer, I will make a comment to the stiffeners shown on 8:46. They will not really contribute to much stiffness. What is important is the plate, as it changes the cross-section of the column from an open channel to a closed box which greatly increases the torsion stiffness. ..as well as bending stiffness. A 5mm plate would probably be sufficient.
What a good idea and a great result. I used to have an Optimum BF20L which is very similar to the little mill you have, and it too could have done with a thick stiffening plate just as you show. I reckon if I couldn't get hold of 20-25mm thick plate, I'd get some wide, 8mm flat bar, which is readily available at places like nubco, and bolt or weld 2-3 layers of it together in a sandwich. It should perform very similarly to the single thick plate. Cheers, Craig
Welding like that will probably have a lot of warpage as the metal ages. I think the best way was what he shows at the very end of the video where the other guy added ribs. Lay that flat and fill it with epoxy-granite. You get additional mass and probably have even better damping than the solid 20mm+ plate. I have my base bolted down to a 300x400x25mm steel plate with a 600 mm T-shaped strong back made out of 50x10mm flat bar welded to the base. The column (and every other cavity) was then filled with a mixture of epoxy, sand and granite pebbles before being tapped for 2x12mm bolts. The strong back has two 12 mm bolts threaded into the column and pinned to the strong back with nuts. I believe I added about 40 kg of additional mass and the epoxy-granite has completely negated any/all vibration. Also, I filled the head with epoxy-granite-lead so it weighs about 20 kg on its own. After converting it to CNC with NEMA 34 steppers, upgrading to tapered-roller bearings, and adding a 3 HP belt-drive treadmill motor it is easily pushing 150 kg. You can see videos of it in my library but it really deserves a thorough review.
Im glad that you kept original sound, people often dont realize how LOUD machines are i remember when i was an intern in CNC company ( NSK to be exact ) and was struck by that loud constant noise even in earplugs.
I'm just a country youtube watcher... I'm betting if you got a bunch of 1/4" plate and made strips out of it... squared them up on the mill... and built a box, you could get similar performance... as for the mass, you might be able to fill up that box with concrete... or even just cement, or mortar... and that might take care of it. You won't even need to do any welding, I'm betting screws would be good enough to hold the box together. Then just mount the mill to the side of the box... The box could be anchored to a workbench... or you could build the box and workbench all in one go. Anyways... just a dream for now. Happy Sunday.
It's amazing how flexible thick metal is. I learned this years ago when a shop teacher demonstrated how easily a beefy cast iron engine block was to flex by hand. He placed a bore micrometer in a cylinder tight enough to hold itself in. Then he asked a skinny kid to press the cylinder bore. The bore mic quickly dropped to the table below.
Yeah for sure, a flat bar is not the greatest at resisting bending, but in this application it is still doing a good job. Not perfect but I am still very pleased. Cheers
@@artisanmakes I was just stating how counterintuitive it is that a beefy cast iron engine block flexes by hand. Even a machine 10X beefier and heavier than yours flexes some. I'm not surprised at all a 20mm plate helps a lot!
Have the slightly larger brother you your mill, the SX3. One of the best stiffening mods I read about for the mill that worked for me. Bolted it to a wall behind it.
I was thinking about using epoxy granite to fill the castings as it can be made basically with 80% - 90% sand, pea gravel and the rest epoxy.. my bridge port clone mill has large empty castings..its around 2,300 lbs but could use more mass for deeper cuts and better surface finish..I was also thinking about my 1440 lathe as its only 1,700 lbs and would benefit greatly with another 1,000 lbs in the castings and base legs..
I took an old tool box cabinet and filled it with quick Crete and put all thread all the way to the bottom so they stuck up to bolt my mill to. Wow did that help!! Bit where I put it, it's there to stay! Lol. Not sure they total weight but it doesn't move.
I like your videos, and I have picked up a lot of ideas from them, thanks a lot. Also, I am so happy that you have upgraded the hacksaw for an angle grinder. Every time I saw you pull out the hacksaw in those other videos I hoped that someone would donate you a metal cutting bandsaw...
I got material to do something similar to my mini mill a couple of weeks ago. It will be a little different than yours but similar concept. I have a 1/2" thick plate that is going to be sandwiched between the mill and the bench and then a channel iron will get bolted to the column and then welded to the plate.
Great idea and implementation. I have one of those cheap chinese mills and it has the same problem. It does have a solid column but the cast iron is thin hence a lack of mass. So now you got me thinking, must scourer the scrap yards for chunky metal 😁.
There's a diy vmc cnc mill project called rig cnc. The creator of that used a small granite surface plate and a ground upright (about 200 bucks total cost) to make his machine rigid and square. I'm not sure if the same idea could be adapted to a mini mill but it could if one had the extra depth on their bench to fit it all.
Doing more or less the same thing. It seems like the X2D tilting column machines, which are worse in almost every way, are more common in the US. LMS usually wants $1k for their version with the fixed column whereas I got my harbor freight turd for about $500 during a sale. I'm thinking I'll use the tilting column bolt to start, then do 3 M6 bolts on each side with a tension bracket towards the bottom. Luckily the power box and electrical stuff is isolated towards the top instead of inside the column, which is largely just empty space.
Have you replaced the spindle bearings? I have a 45 type mill and replacing the spindle bearing was another upgrade that made a significant improvement
Yeah, I couldn't really tell a difference audio-wise with his upgrade. I'm sure it would have helped - but it's not going to help nearly as much as a quality set of spindle bearings. Good god that thing sounds atrocious.
I can tell that they are sounding a lot worse than they did a year ago. A year to wear out these bearings is about the same amount of time that it took to wear the mini lathe spindle bearings too. I'll probably swap them out around Christmas time, when I get the time to do it.
Great upgrade! Thanks for sharing your progress! I was worried about your parallels in the “after” clip -😅 Did the new rigidity allow the end mill to pull the stock out of the vise?
Mate, that is some good work. I'm enjoying binging your mill videos (just found your channel). Got a couple of suggestions: 1) Mill scale is horrible. I gave up grinding it. That sucks the pus! I have used hydrochloric acid (for swimming pools) and it dissolves it nicely. Be VERY CAREFUL, it generates LOTS of chlorine gas. So if you don't want to try that, use vinegar... 2) You could pilot drill all your holes, in the one go, to get the spacing right. And then use the vice. 3) Don't use a straight tap in a drill, unless you like removing broken taps (that's even more pus sucking!). Get a spiral fluted tap if you're going to use a drill. 4) If you wanted to make it even stiffer, you can weld stiffening ribs on the back. But you will have to machine the mating surfaces flat. That steel will warp no matter what you do, so you'll have a really stiff mill but it will be banana straight... 5) Weight is good. Try going to a tyre shop and asking for their used wheel weights. They usually have a bucket by the wheel balancer... You should be able to cast that into usable blocks. And lastly, I can't count... Keep up the good work bloke! I enjoy the inspiration. PS - is there a list, link, website or something where you get your gear? I find it hard to get good stuff in Aus, and you seem to be doing a reasonable job... 😁
Consider epoxy with lead shot in an assortment of sizes. It’s a fast easy way to add a lot of mass. Of course, your plate is a great way to add rigidity, and both solutions can be used at the same time.
Well thought out project--your improvements are very good---your next job will be perhaps making a power hacksaw---these armstrong hacksaws have knobs on them..Blow that..
All the mini mills I have seen, including expensive ones from Europe, suffer similar deficiencies: weakness of the column in bending and torsion. A home-built machine ought to have a column of 12" x 12 " Hollow Structural Section, or at least 8" x 8" in the smaller size mill. The wall thickness ought to be the maximum available, 1/2". (Note that in the structural steel business this steel section is referred to as HSS, not to be confused with High Speed Steel.) The base of the machine may be a piece of the same material, and the two pieces bolted together with 4 or 6 5/8" bolts. For vibration resistance the empty spaces may be filled with sand, concrete, etc. I doubt if any of those machines have ever been subjected to a rigorous stress analysis. If I am wrong, then the permissible deflections under load were set as too large. To add insult to injury, the back of the columns are open, weakening their borderline strength further.
I have an older Grizzly G0516(2001) 3 in 1 Mill/ Lathe. At the time that was in my budget. The mistake was thinking the mill would be usable. Its a HORRIBLE Method to attach in its current state and I can't really use it at all. Seen some nice conversions since I started looking and so far the best thing I have seen is just remove the dam Mill off the lathe and go with a separate unit from the lathe. So far all the stuff I turn up still talks about the Rigidity of whatever base is used. Nice upgrade to your mill.
I think you’d see incredible results strengthening it with an L shaped piece of steel bolted under and against the column. A knee mill is shaped the way it is the brace effectively against the cutting forces. The piece of steel just bolted to the back I would think is solely adding weight to the arrangement
I’m glad it is! I tend to overthink and complicate things. My small bench top mill in the process of design and build will end up costing more than buying a knee mill lol
You need to upgrade to the bench the mill is mounted to. As it looks quite flimsy. Maybe a large metal plate bolted to the table and then the mill mounted to that? (use M10 bolts). As this will help with vibrations even more.
Something else you can do to improve rigidity and mass damping, fill hollow sections with hydraulic cement as it doesn't shrink like Portland cement would. If you need voids, PVC pipe seems to work well. I did my mini mill column ? years ago
This is a good idea. Regular cement really doesn't shrink all that much if you don't over do the water. Less than 0.5%. I have mixed hundreds of tons of cement and poured even more. A cement filled column is the best way to gain rigidity with the least expense. There are great studies available on this using expanding grout and secondary layers of interior metal to permit the pre-stressing. But a solid column is a big step up.
One thing you can do with that mill vice to hold larger pieces like that plate, instead of removing the fixed jaw plate, is to remove the movable jaw plate and screw it to the other end of the movable block. You'll see that there are threaded holes for that on both sides of the movable block.
@@artisanmakes if you want a budget straight edge find an old clapped out wood lathe or wood planer, hack up the cast iron bed from the lathe or table from the planer to get the material for a straight edge. rough it out on your mill then go to town with the scraper.
Question: Couldn't you use any piece of steel/iron/whatever heavy enough to get the effect as long as it's rigid enough? And also, does it need to be rigid in its entirety or could you weld many junk pieces on a thinner (hopefully cheaper plate)? BTW great videos! I've been binge watching all day xD
I would have did concrete with rebar and that back plate I know you have to screw in the middle but you would make way for the electric screw like puting a pipe in the middle of it PVC pipe or something like and that would reallying make it rigid and dampens noise and rigidity and then the bottom of the mill too I'm sure it's hollow I would fill that with concrete too and rebar not like a little rebar like 1 in or half inch and I would have put a lot more sock ahead cap screws in it with loctite to and JB weld on the plate too right before I put it on to tighten it you should put a plate on the bottom of the Mill too it's crazy The rigidity of that machine you were the first one to have that machine on RUclips that I've ever seen the bigger one I looked up the price of that machine when you first got it it is not cheap at all it's not over the top in price but not cheap I am looking to build a CNC mill soon but now why bother they got the MR1 by lamere system if I'm spelling it right something like that base price is $4,500 I would get that machine put put clearpath servos on it and a centroid controller and it's like having a real CNC machine you can even upgrade the rigidity of that machine too and it comes stock pretty damn rigid cut steel no problem 30 lb an hour
The mill scale is a great corrosion resistor. By grinding it off you are loosing a significant corrosion protective layer - that was provided free of work and cost. You'd have been better leaving it on and painting over. My opinion.
@@artisanmakes No, you don't understand. DOC is the distance you advance a tool into the work in one cut, it's irrespective of the step-over, which as you say, can be called the WOC. You weren't taking a 10mm DOC, I'd be mightily impressed if you managed that on your mill!👀
Well this might come down to a regional thing, my machining book states "width of cut, also called stepover". In all fairness these things have multiple names, my CATIA cam software would also call it radial depth of cut but fusion calls the same thing the stepover.
Well you compare how the mill performs before and after using the same depth of cuts and speeds and how well the mill handles it. Before it would start to chatter at lighter cuts
Chatter is resonance, by increasing the mass of the column you've managed to absorb a lot of it. Place a sandbag on top of the mill head and see how much chatter is reduced, doesn't look pretty though... 🤣
We asked our last gaffer for a band saw or chop saw, the reply was "ive got two, you pair" Especially hacksaw blades last 20 years, all gone down the pan including Eclipse. Luckily still got pre 2002 stock.
Rigidity is the penultimate factor, NOT mass. In fact, given that you have acceptable rigidity, mass is a detriment, since it lowers the natural frequencies of vibrational modes.
He addressed the rigidity more than the mass though. Increasing the torsional stiffness of the iron channel that makes up his column - by turning it into a closed box - has done a great deal more than the 14kg of added mass.
For sure this is a rigidity upgrade but you would be surprised at how much dampening the metal plate was able to achieve simply by resting it on the table. It's not 100% the same thing but it does offer some insight that the mass is doing something
Cast iron is self lubricating due to all that extra carbon which acts like a dry graphite lubricant, such as locksmiths use. So, unlike most metals, you can drill, tap and do other machining operations on cast iron completely dry - no problem 👍
Where's the hacksaw? 😮🤪
Hacksawing a 20 mm plate would be quite cruel endeavor.
@@hauuau job for an apprentice
I was shocked, angle grinder!!
We all thought he was going to do that plate with a hacksaw
@@hauuau he has a very big hacksaw
Good idea. In addition, in future if you find that the column is not straight, you might be able to correct it by appropriately shimming that plate to bend or twist the column in the direction you need.
One thing I would do differently is to put epoxy in between (with release agent on 1 of the 2) and finger tight the screws in place until it cures, then tighten. That would cancel out any variations of flatness between the column and the plate for a zero stress mount.
That epoxy trick is a really good idea!
Steel isn't ideal of course, it's rigid sure but does not have good damping characteristics, if you wanted to really overbuild you could use a thinner plate to increase the column depth and then do an epoxy granite fill.
@@cda32 One downside with the steel is the difference in expansion with temperature. Its small but might have an effect. I think you might be able to help the damping characteristics of steel if it was layers of steel epoxied together in a sandwich, I think that would be hard to make that "ring".
@@cda32 Stefan Gotteswinter did the epoxy thing for tramming his mini-mill and if Stefan does it then its a good way to do things.
@@billshiff2060 If you really want to chase dampening mass the best way is epoxy & granite chips as a few of the CNC project guys have shown.
That's a fantastically cheap and simple upgrade for such a massive improvement
AU is known for high prices on certain things but Chinese machines seem to be cheaper and generally higher quality models then what's available in the US. Of course we have precision Matthew and Tormach but IMO Tormach has priced their way out of reality on their 1100s and used they go for almost what they were new. The G0704 which was popular for a long time has become overpriced and is honestly underwhelming still using gears and brushed motor.
Forgot to mention that the ways on the G0704 are awful even compared to a Chinese mill I just picked up for $800 as a damaged unit that normally sold for just under $1200 which is a slightly scaled down G0704 design with similar Y travel and a bit less X. I have an older KX3 CNC I am rebuilding using the manual mill to aid in the upgrades.
@@ChrisHarmon1 fuck tormach -- junk
I had a RF45 mill which was bought brand new as I didnt want the bother of inspecting second hand stuff with my at the time limited knowledge. It was an upsetting day when I first started to make test cuts with mildsteel at 1mm and hearing chatter if only I had found this great guide to adding some rigidity. My story still has a happy ending as I got a used BridgePort from a very nice chap that was retiring for a good price only downside is that moving something that is 1000Kg is a much harder task. Great video I liked the small lathe upgrade also.
I did almost the same thing to my LMS5500 SX2.7 I used a 4x6x0.25 steel tube hoping to get a huge improvement in both torsional and flexural rigidity. I mounted it roughly the same way and moved all the electronics into a new enclosure. I never did go back and measure the results but I am happy with it
You could also add some epoxy granite for more mass and vibration dampening. It’s small enough that you probably wouldn’t be able to add a lot, but you could probably add enough to make a difference. We used to add it to our Bridgeport’s back in the day and it really helped.
Definitely worthwhile in these smaller mills. I have the X2 with the tilting column and the column may as well have been a wet noodle out of the box. I ended up building a base from 3x3 square steel tubing from some old bench uprights. Before welding the two L shaped sections I filled them with epoxy granite. I added it so I would have a better way to mount my dro scale and give a better mounting point to tie the stiffening plate from the column to the base. I also filled the actual base and column with EG. It added somewhere in the neighborhood of 150lbs to the machine between the steel base, stiffening plate, the struts I added to help with deflection and EG fill. That doesn't sound like much in the world of machine tools but with machines this size adding that much dampening with the rigidity of the heavy steel base and column plate is a massive improvement I wouldn't have seen without flat out just buying a much larger mill.
Where did you add this? Did you fill the back?
@@stxrynn add which part? And yeah I filled the column. The X2 has a different column and electronics mounting set up but it should be similar to do on any mill. I used a piece of PVC epoxied inside to allow the giant pivot bolt to pass through and I modified the air shock mount so it no longer is inside the column.
@@jkalash762 I was asking Faker what they filled on the B-port. My old clone had an open bottom and a door in the side. I was kinda lost how you'd be able to fill that. On these smaller bench tops, I can see the EG as a boon for rigidity. I very nearly bought a new one, but found the BP clone for the same money. Thanks for the reply!!
For sure something like that is on the cards, especially in the big void underneath the base of the mill. I haven't done too much research into epoxy granite, I am aware there are various mixes, but once I figure it out I might end up doing it to the mill and lathe in some capacity
For check the improvement will be nice bend the column in all the direction BEFORE the upgrade and by dial indicator control how much bend. Repeat the same operation AFTER the improvement, only in this system it's possible check how much the improve it's really good.
Agreed! Especially the connection between the base and the column, I'm sure that is the weakest link.
Cheers
Gday, definitely a massive improvement and not an expensive one, great job mate, Cheers
Great improvement. As a structural engineer, I will make a comment to the stiffeners shown on 8:46. They will not really contribute to much stiffness.
What is important is the plate, as it changes the cross-section of the column from an open channel to a closed box which greatly increases the torsion stiffness. ..as well as bending stiffness.
A 5mm plate would probably be sufficient.
do you think the epoxy granite+fill he did in another video benefits the rigidty of the column as well?
What a good idea and a great result. I used to have an Optimum BF20L which is very similar to the little mill you have, and it too could have done with a thick stiffening plate just as you show. I reckon if I couldn't get hold of 20-25mm thick plate, I'd get some wide, 8mm flat bar, which is readily available at places like nubco, and bolt or weld 2-3 layers of it together in a sandwich. It should perform very similarly to the single thick plate. Cheers, Craig
Welding like that will probably have a lot of warpage as the metal ages. I think the best way was what he shows at the very end of the video where the other guy added ribs. Lay that flat and fill it with epoxy-granite. You get additional mass and probably have even better damping than the solid 20mm+ plate.
I have my base bolted down to a 300x400x25mm steel plate with a 600 mm T-shaped strong back made out of 50x10mm flat bar welded to the base. The column (and every other cavity) was then filled with a mixture of epoxy, sand and granite pebbles before being tapped for 2x12mm bolts. The strong back has two 12 mm bolts threaded into the column and pinned to the strong back with nuts. I believe I added about 40 kg of additional mass and the epoxy-granite has completely negated any/all vibration. Also, I filled the head with epoxy-granite-lead so it weighs about 20 kg on its own. After converting it to CNC with NEMA 34 steppers, upgrading to tapered-roller bearings, and adding a 3 HP belt-drive treadmill motor it is easily pushing 150 kg. You can see videos of it in my library but it really deserves a thorough review.
@@JaredBrewerAerospace Can you tell me more about welds that warp as they age?
Im glad that you kept original sound, people often dont realize how LOUD machines are i remember when i was an intern in CNC company ( NSK to be exact ) and was struck by that loud constant noise even in earplugs.
I'm just a country youtube watcher... I'm betting if you got a bunch of 1/4" plate and made strips out of it... squared them up on the mill... and built a box, you could get similar performance... as for the mass, you might be able to fill up that box with concrete... or even just cement, or mortar... and that might take care of it. You won't even need to do any welding, I'm betting screws would be good enough to hold the box together. Then just mount the mill to the side of the box... The box could be anchored to a workbench... or you could build the box and workbench all in one go. Anyways... just a dream for now. Happy Sunday.
This is very impressive. I'll have to get it in gear and give this a try. You do some great videos!
Thankyou
It's amazing how flexible thick metal is. I learned this years ago when a shop teacher demonstrated how easily a beefy cast iron engine block was to flex by hand. He placed a bore micrometer in a cylinder tight enough to hold itself in. Then he asked a skinny kid to press the cylinder bore. The bore mic quickly dropped to the table below.
Yeah for sure, a flat bar is not the greatest at resisting bending, but in this application it is still doing a good job. Not perfect but I am still very pleased. Cheers
@@artisanmakes I was just stating how counterintuitive it is that a beefy cast iron engine block flexes by hand. Even a machine 10X beefier and heavier than yours flexes some. I'm not surprised at all a 20mm plate helps a lot!
Really nice upgrade. A little more mass really adds rigidity to these mini-mills.
Great idea! I went to my milling machine (325kg) and will do something similiar. Thank you for sharing!
Have the slightly larger brother you your mill, the SX3. One of the best stiffening mods I read about for the mill that worked for me. Bolted it to a wall behind it.
I guess if it’s a solid wall it could work. I only have gyprock in this shop
Your videos are so entertaining to watch. Keep it up.
Good job there. Those small machines, by their very nature, are prone to vibration.
I was thinking about using epoxy granite to fill the castings as it can be made basically with 80% - 90% sand, pea gravel and the rest epoxy.. my bridge port clone mill has large empty castings..its around 2,300 lbs but could use more mass for deeper cuts and better surface finish..I was also thinking about my 1440 lathe as its only 1,700 lbs and would benefit greatly with another 1,000 lbs in the castings and base legs..
I took an old tool box cabinet and filled it with quick Crete and put all thread all the way to the bottom so they stuck up to bolt my mill to.
Wow did that help!! Bit where I put it, it's there to stay! Lol. Not sure they total weight but it doesn't move.
I like your videos, and I have picked up a lot of ideas from them, thanks a lot. Also, I am so happy that you have upgraded the hacksaw for an angle grinder. Every time I saw you pull out the hacksaw in those other videos I hoped that someone would donate you a metal cutting bandsaw...
I got material to do something similar to my mini mill a couple of weeks ago. It will be a little different than yours but similar concept. I have a 1/2" thick plate that is going to be sandwiched between the mill and the bench and then a channel iron will get bolted to the column and then welded to the plate.
Excellent! Because this is my very next project :)
I am definitely doing that ....fantastic idea.
awesome, thanks man! unfortunately I got a pipe head mill, but I got new ideas from your vid! 100% would recommend, thanks m8
Great idea and implementation. I have one of those cheap chinese mills and it has the same problem. It does have a solid column but the cast iron is thin hence a lack of mass. So now you got me thinking, must scourer the scrap yards for chunky metal 😁.
This is a lot more rigid than some mills! (I have one of the less-rigid ones.)
Please add some sort of grommet to the wire pass-through hole. Not a problem today or even this year, but...
Or tapper the holes on both sides.
There's a diy vmc cnc mill project called rig cnc. The creator of that used a small granite surface plate and a ground upright (about 200 bucks total cost) to make his machine rigid and square. I'm not sure if the same idea could be adapted to a mini mill but it could if one had the extra depth on their bench to fit it all.
Interesting idea, cheers
Doing more or less the same thing. It seems like the X2D tilting column machines, which are worse in almost every way, are more common in the US. LMS usually wants $1k for their version with the fixed column whereas I got my harbor freight turd for about $500 during a sale. I'm thinking I'll use the tilting column bolt to start, then do 3 M6 bolts on each side with a tension bracket towards the bottom. Luckily the power box and electrical stuff is isolated towards the top instead of inside the column, which is largely just empty space.
Have you replaced the spindle bearings? I have a 45 type mill and replacing the spindle bearing was another upgrade that made a significant improvement
Yeah, I couldn't really tell a difference audio-wise with his upgrade. I'm sure it would have helped - but it's not going to help nearly as much as a quality set of spindle bearings. Good god that thing sounds atrocious.
I can tell that they are sounding a lot worse than they did a year ago. A year to wear out these bearings is about the same amount of time that it took to wear the mini lathe spindle bearings too. I'll probably swap them out around Christmas time, when I get the time to do it.
😢 2:36, i was so exited to see you hacksaw that beast 🤣
This!!! I was gonna complain about not hacksawing it as well 😂
Great upgrade! Thanks for sharing your progress! I was worried about your parallels in the “after” clip -😅 Did the new rigidity allow the end mill to pull the stock out of the vise?
Nah, the hot rolled steel is just bowed out on the side, so clamping it properly is quite difficult unless I face off the end to make it flat
Wow, that has to be a first in you using an angle grinder to cut steel I'm impressed way to go man.
Mate, that is some good work. I'm enjoying binging your mill videos (just found your channel).
Got a couple of suggestions:
1) Mill scale is horrible. I gave up grinding it. That sucks the pus! I have used hydrochloric acid (for swimming pools) and it dissolves it nicely. Be VERY CAREFUL, it generates LOTS of chlorine gas. So if you don't want to try that, use vinegar...
2) You could pilot drill all your holes, in the one go, to get the spacing right. And then use the vice.
3) Don't use a straight tap in a drill, unless you like removing broken taps (that's even more pus sucking!). Get a spiral fluted tap if you're going to use a drill.
4) If you wanted to make it even stiffer, you can weld stiffening ribs on the back. But you will have to machine the mating surfaces flat. That steel will warp no matter what you do, so you'll have a really stiff mill but it will be banana straight...
5) Weight is good. Try going to a tyre shop and asking for their used wheel weights. They usually have a bucket by the wheel balancer... You should be able to cast that into usable blocks.
And lastly, I can't count...
Keep up the good work bloke! I enjoy the inspiration.
PS - is there a list, link, website or something where you get your gear? I find it hard to get good stuff in Aus, and you seem to be doing a reasonable job... 😁
Consider epoxy with lead shot in an assortment of sizes. It’s a fast easy way to add a lot of mass. Of course, your plate is a great way to add rigidity, and both solutions can be used at the same time.
Well thought out project--your improvements are very good---your next job will be perhaps making a power hacksaw---these armstrong hacksaws have knobs on them..Blow that..
All the mini mills I have seen, including expensive ones from Europe, suffer similar deficiencies: weakness of the column in bending and torsion.
A home-built machine ought to have a column of 12" x 12 " Hollow Structural Section, or at least 8" x 8" in the smaller size mill. The wall thickness ought to be the maximum available, 1/2". (Note that in the structural steel business this steel section is referred to as HSS, not to be confused with High Speed Steel.)
The base of the machine may be a piece of the same material, and the two pieces bolted together with 4 or 6 5/8" bolts.
For vibration resistance the empty spaces may be filled with sand, concrete, etc.
I doubt if any of those machines have ever been subjected to a rigorous stress analysis. If I am wrong, then the permissible deflections under load were set as too large.
To add insult to injury, the back of the columns are open, weakening their borderline strength further.
I have an older Grizzly G0516(2001) 3 in 1 Mill/ Lathe. At the time that was in my budget. The mistake was thinking the mill would be usable. Its a HORRIBLE Method to attach in its current state and I can't really use it at all. Seen some nice conversions since I started looking and so far the best thing I have seen is just remove the dam Mill off the lathe and go with a separate unit from the lathe. So far all the stuff I turn up still talks about the Rigidity of whatever base is used. Nice upgrade to your mill.
Nice solution! Excellent bang for the buck! 👍
8:58 - nope. this is bad arrangement for torsional strength. better one will be like XXXXX (with Xes based on bolt pattern of course)
maybe, but I was very impressed with the results that he got from it, perfect or not.
I think you’d see incredible results strengthening it with an L shaped piece of steel bolted under and against the column. A knee mill is shaped the way it is the brace effectively against the cutting forces. The piece of steel just bolted to the back I would think is solely adding weight to the arrangement
A back plate like that adds tortional rigidity as well as mass.
Yeah definitely, couldnt find any at the places I get my metal at, and in any event this is doing a fantastic job
I’m glad it is! I tend to overthink and complicate things. My small bench top mill in the process of design and build will end up costing more than buying a knee mill lol
Kool ,
Thought of something similar for my seig super x2.
Would have to do without tilting head though ...... no great loss.
Good video bloke.
Nice upgrade.
If you can't find a thick piece of steel, a few T-profiles welded or bolted together could work too.
You need to upgrade to the bench the mill is mounted to. As it looks quite flimsy. Maybe a large metal plate bolted to the table and then the mill mounted to that? (use M10 bolts). As this will help with vibrations even more.
For sure one day. Definitely more rigid than the stand that they sell for these machines but I am looking at beefing it up one day
Good idea and it totally worked!
Nice job :)
Something else you can do to improve rigidity and mass damping, fill hollow sections with hydraulic cement as it doesn't shrink like Portland cement would.
If you need voids, PVC pipe seems to work well. I did my mini mill column ? years ago
This is a good idea. Regular cement really doesn't shrink all that much if you don't over do the water. Less than 0.5%. I have mixed hundreds of tons of cement and poured even more. A cement filled column is the best way to gain rigidity with the least expense. There are great studies available on this using expanding grout and secondary layers of interior metal to permit the pre-stressing. But a solid column is a big step up.
One thing you can do with that mill vice to hold larger pieces like that plate, instead of removing the fixed jaw plate, is to remove the movable jaw plate and screw it to the other end of the movable block. You'll see that there are threaded holes for that on both sides of the movable block.
Have you thought about switching to ball screws? It would probably be a bit more expensive than this, but I can imagine it would be a great upgrade.
Always thinking outside of the square. The 20 mm plate will adsorb a lot of the harmonics. It dose not take a lot to instill some extra stability.
No hacksaw??
Not this time, it makes an absolute mess of the workshop and camera and studio gear though :)
What the hack
I wish you would make a video on making a power hacksaw!
you should scrape in the ways so you can tighten them up... will make a big difference. and you can probably get better bearings for the spindle.
I am planning of doing that sometime in the future but I still need to practise scraping, and I'll need to get a straight edge made
@@artisanmakes if you want a budget straight edge find an old clapped out wood lathe or wood planer, hack up the cast iron bed from the lathe or table from the planer to get the material for a straight edge. rough it out on your mill then go to town with the scraper.
Instead of removing the fixed jaw, you can swap the moveable jaw to the rear face. It's already drilled and tapped for that
For sure, but you only get like 4mm of clamping on the jaw. Cheers
What's happen to the hacksaw ?
I hope you solderd the cables more then just shown in the video because these joints looked like cold solder joints
Yes :)
Epoxy and rock fill on the base and column. Fairly cheap and much greater results usually.
I was shocked to my core as soon as I saw that grinder!
Great Idea for my Seig
Whaaaat. No Hacksaw for cutting the plate?
Question: Couldn't you use any piece of steel/iron/whatever heavy enough to get the effect as long as it's rigid enough? And also, does it need to be rigid in its entirety or could you weld many junk pieces on a thinner (hopefully cheaper plate)?
BTW great videos! I've been binge watching all day xD
I would assume that to be the case as long as its rigid and straight enough that won’t bend or distort the column
Why is it difficult to find a piece of flat stock like that? Is there no metal supplier near you?
im surprised you didnt flycut the entire contact face :) you are usually so meticulous! :)
I would have did concrete with rebar and that back plate I know you have to screw in the middle but you would make way for the electric screw like puting a pipe in the middle of it PVC pipe or something like and that would reallying make it rigid and dampens noise and rigidity and then the bottom of the mill too I'm sure it's hollow I would fill that with concrete too and rebar not like a little rebar like 1 in or half inch and I would have put a lot more sock ahead cap screws in it with loctite to and JB weld on the plate too right before I put it on to tighten it you should put a plate on the bottom of the Mill too it's crazy The rigidity of that machine you were the first one to have that machine on RUclips that I've ever seen the bigger one I looked up the price of that machine when you first got it it is not cheap at all it's not over the top in price but not cheap I am looking to build a CNC mill soon but now why bother they got the MR1 by lamere system if I'm spelling it right something like that base price is $4,500 I would get that machine put put clearpath servos on it and a centroid controller and it's like having a real CNC machine you can even upgrade the rigidity of that machine too and it comes stock pretty damn rigid cut steel no problem 30 lb an hour
Well done.
Glad to see that the hacksaw is gone 🤓
2:23 Where is your faithful hacksaw? 😉
you should scrape matching surfaces.
One day, once I get a straight edge made
Is width of cut a UK/AUS thing? We call it Depth of Cut in Americaland
I think you might call it step over, rather than width of cut
Vise to watched your parallel walking around one towards the fixed jaw
Yeah it’ll do that if I didn’t properly seat the part :)
No hacksaw?
Very cool! What kind of mill is this?
it is a sieg x2.7l
Good idea, good vid.
Glad you enjoyed it
The mill scale is a great corrosion resistor. By grinding it off you are loosing a significant corrosion protective layer - that was provided free of work and cost. You'd have been better leaving it on and painting over. My opinion.
For sure it does provide some protection, but id rate paint as better protection. Cheers
Greta work.
WOC? Usually called DOC - Depth Of Cut.
Those are two different things, I was taking a full depth of cut in the stock which was 10mm. Some people might call width of cut the step over
@@artisanmakes No, you don't understand. DOC is the distance you advance a tool into the work in one cut, it's irrespective of the step-over, which as you say, can be called the WOC. You weren't taking a 10mm DOC, I'd be mightily impressed if you managed that on your mill!👀
Well this might come down to a regional thing, my machining book states "width of cut, also called stepover". In all fairness these things have multiple names, my CATIA cam software would also call it radial depth of cut but fusion calls the same thing the stepover.
I was waiting for the hacksaw lol
I full on thought he was going to cut the stiffener plate with a hacksaw :)
appahman he surprised me as well.
thanks again
here i thought it was gonna be the sand/epoxy into the collem ( to add daming mass) but oh well maybe thats the next mill upgrade video ;)
How can you tell? You need to explain 😮
Well you compare how the mill performs before and after using the same depth of cuts and speeds and how well the mill handles it. Before it would start to chatter at lighter cuts
Wait! You didn't use a hacksaw for that steel! I feel ripped off XD
came here to complain about that too! :p
Chatter is resonance, by increasing the mass of the column you've managed to absorb a lot of it. Place a sandbag on top of the mill head and see how much chatter is reduced, doesn't look pretty though... 🤣
I once saw someone use a bag of cast iron dust and lead shot to get similar results
I'm so disappointed you didn't use your hacksaw
I’ve always said China stuff is cheaper because it’s a “kit”. You’re supposed to finish it to your tastes.
ахренеть ты паяльщик от бога!!! явный непропай! провода надо дольше греть
Nice.
👍
Gday..
What, you didn't hacksaw 20x130... gone soft lad.🤣🤣😂😂
We asked our last gaffer for a band saw or chop saw, the reply was "ive got two, you pair"
Especially hacksaw blades last 20 years, all gone down the pan including Eclipse. Luckily still got pre 2002 stock.
No steel? Cast epoxy granite.
Seriously??! Angle-Grinder???!
What happened to good old manual work?🤔 Where's the hacksaw?!!
Maybe time for a video on a "master's hacksaw"!!!😆😈😎
Now fill it up with foa... Sorry concrete🤦
Rigidity is the penultimate factor, NOT mass. In fact, given that you have acceptable rigidity, mass is a detriment, since it lowers the natural frequencies of vibrational modes.
He addressed the rigidity more than the mass though. Increasing the torsional stiffness of the iron channel that makes up his column - by turning it into a closed box - has done a great deal more than the 14kg of added mass.
For sure this is a rigidity upgrade but you would be surprised at how much dampening the metal plate was able to achieve simply by resting it on the table. It's not 100% the same thing but it does offer some insight that the mass is doing something
@@artisanmakes Adding mass would lower the resonant frequency for sure. It looks to have done a great job. 👍
Dry tapping :/ lucky you did not break it.
Cast iron is self lubricating due to all that extra carbon which acts like a dry graphite lubricant, such as locksmiths use. So, unlike most metals, you can drill, tap and do other machining operations on cast iron completely dry - no problem 👍
Great mod,, mini mills need it
I bought the same dial indicator arm, and i saw it is literally destroying it self, the ball against the steel wire wich keeps it in place