It is possible to activate retrigger mode in model d. 1: by activating in the synthtribe app or 2:if you turning on the synth, (first 5 seconds), turn the a440 switch on and off. This activates the multitrigger mode See user manual page 13, 4.9
Could it be, have I just found my new favorite synth-related youtube channel? I love how you dare to take a clear stand/opinion even if it's possibly a "controversial" one. Because you also back it up with very understandable arguments. Unlike so many others, you're not trying to make yourself popular by telling aspiring synth-players what they might want to hear, you tell them what (you think) they need to hear. And I don't know your background story but you clearly know what you're talking about. Keep up the good work! (and please take your time to maintain that level of quality)
That’s a very kind thing to say. Maintaining the quality is why the videos take so long to get out. In an ideal world I would be putting out one or two a week. But it’s just impossible because I’m trying to make content that is not only instructive to musicians and producers but also entertaining to non-musician fans. Even small things like referring to a ‘bass guitar’ rather than a ‘bass’ makes a difference. So I *really appreciate* comments like yours :)
His mind reading is a bit off, but that's ok. I'm not musician or producer, just a big fan of synth sounds (DM, E, PSB variety). :) Anyway, a great channel for all of us. Oh my, haven't heard the term WYSIWYG since the 80's. heh
I studied subtractive synthesis in college back in the 80s and have played tons of analog synths, and in my opinion, the advice in this video is 100% spot on. Great advice!
I’m so glad you said that! You’d be surprised how controversial this was. Or maybe you wouldn’t 😂 For example somebody suggested that subtractive synthesis was old fashioned and we should all learn FM. Whilst I totally respect anyone who comments, I definitely find myself very politely disagreeing. I programme FM from scratch and it is not the first thing to learn 😂
The workaround to the limited Volca feature set is to buy 5 Volcas…but then you feel silly for not buying 2 very good $300 synths or one fantastic $600 synth!
I had this conversation with myself two nights ago on this very subject and you helped me clarify my "First Synth" speech. Thank you. FYI my first synth was the "day one" Minibrute and I learned so much and I fell in love with Arturia. Now I have too much gear. One last Honorable Mention; I took an online synthesis course with Ear Training that propulsed my understanding stratospherically - Syntorial. I learned to dissects sounds from recorded music so I could understand and reproduce patches. I gifted a Syntorial subscription to a few of my friends. I do not work for Syntorial. Cheers m8.
Random comment: Thanks for your videos. They are definitely in my wheelhouse: I'm 55 yr old, just getting into synths, big fan of the 80s music I grew up with, and a deep diver (maybe ADHD?). You are traveling down the right road, friend. Are you going to get 5 million subs? Probably not, but for the people who have subscribed so far, you're preaching and teaching. Keep it up!!! (Oh, and you've most definitely pushed me into adding a Poly D to my small group of synths with my Uno Synth Pro and Yamaha TG-33!)
OMG you have a Yamaha TG-33? You know that a certain famous synthpop duo used that for strings over the Emulator and their programmer was sworn to secrecy, right? I've been meaning to get one for ages! Really appreciate you watching and your comments, as ever :) Watch this space for more 80s programming builds and stories. Apologies in advance if not all videos are about synthpop but I promise they'll all be entertaining!
60 here, adult ADHD (in a good way - but it causes too much GAS!). Wanted to go back to the fundamentals of leaning subtractive synthesis from the ground up and I think I’ve found my new home. ;-)
Great video mate! Looks like i chose well - ive been making music as a hobby for around 25 years, but after hearing great things about Behringer analogue synths, looked at my options, took the plunge and bought a Pro one and a Neutron about 2 years ago. Boy! I can get lost for hours just patching and twisting knobs! - Amazing sounds for the price. Theres no way i'm ever buying a Moog or a Buchla, as i dont have that kind of money, but these behringer machines are incredible. I have all the analogue i need with these two and i can learn and slowly incorporate things into my productions. The Neutron is a bit more challenging, but i'll get there!
Thank you so much! I’ve been debating this for so long now and finally started narrowing the options down a couple days ago to actually these two. I saw ur video on how to make soft arps with both and couldn’t decide. But i’m glad i have one more video as my deciding factor. Awesome channel!
Oh amazing! Honestly whichever you get I would be surprised if you had buyer’s remorse - they’re both pretty amazing. Plus, assuming you buy second hand having researched the right price, you could always sell it if it doesn’t work out. Goes without saying that you can’t do that with plugins.
I totally agree. These two synths are outstanding for the price. Easy to learn, easy to use, and 100% authentic. The best is is, both behringers are usable in a modern and classic context.
You're the absolute best. I am primarily a bass / guitar player and I've been asking myself pretty much exactly all the questions you've been answering in this video. I know I said it before, but man, I love your channel!
That’s so great! Since you’re a bass player you will hopefully appreciate the next video which, although it’s Part 2 of a series about synth bass, features an analysis of a famous real bass player… :)
Just wanted to leave a quick "Thank you for making this video". At the end you expressed your fear that you might have lost your viewers, but at least me you did not. I actually never thought about buying a hardware synth at all until 30 minutes ago, but this has now changed, thanks to your way of explaining it.
Oh that’s such a fantastic thing to say! And I can also say that, now that a few people have bought the Pro-1 based in this video, I don’t regret the conclusion. Hardware synths aren’t necessary, but they are a lot of fun.
@@DistortThePreamp I am now intrigued by hardware synths because of the insight that only with a comparably simple, yet powerful and good sounding hardware device I would be able to learn something. "No presets!" - Surprising argument at first, but then, after I thought about it, quite convincing. I can absolutely confirm that the thousands of presets plugins usually offer actually prevented me to dive deeper into learning features of at least one plugin, and as a consequence, I did not learn how to create own sounds.
Yes. This is kind of counterintuitive, but it’s really true. The most important thing with any piece of gear but especially a synth is to learn it thoroughly. Once you’re a master than obviously presets are fantastic. But while one is a novice I think they impede learning…
I took your word for it and bought a used Pro-1. It’s fantastic. My last synth I didn’t get on with so well (DSI Mopho) because I couldn’t see the whole patch at once and I didn’t know what to do with all the presets. This knob per function, no preset Pro-1 sounds great and is inspiring. Thank you 👍
That’s so amazing! I know it sounds crazy to avoid a synth with presets, but the advantage you get by seeing the whole patch at once is profound! Feel free to hit me up with any questions :) I’ve spent the whole day editing the next video (which is about forgotten synth bass production techniques from the 80s) and I think I’m gonna have to do it all again tomorrow. Oh well. Turns out making videos is a lot like making records - if the take isn’t good enough you can’t fix it in post. Really appreciate you watching, and the massive vote of confidence in getting the Pro-1, and of course the comment.
@@DistortThePreamp okay I do have a question. If you made some music and wanted to perform it live, would you leave you Pro-1 etc. in its studio rack and perform with phrase sampling / Ableton Live etc. Or would you bring synths and sequencer with you to the gig? So basically how would you perform live?
That’s a very interesting question. It rather depends on the situation, but here are some general rules. - Expected to re-work everything for live. At the minimum you’ll want to re-mix into four basic stereo stems, but it’s not uncommon to entirely re-programme everything just to make it work live. - in a live set I would typically consider standardising some of the fundamental elements like kick. It’s hard enough to get a good front of house sound, without the engineer finding that the kick’s change again afiter they’d got it sounding good - you need to think about what playing live means for you. Does it mean playing a part in a keyboard? Or does it mean twisting knobs while the sequencer plays the part? This question is going to be very important when you re-build as a live set. - hardware is terrible in the road. If you take a real analog synth out, you will need a plan B in case something goes wrong. Very few of the big bands use genuine hardware live any more - they just break down all the time. Speaking personally, I would use Ableton, with a carefully built live set and controller keyboards running Apple Main Stage to control synths, keyboard splits, etc etc etc. Apple Main Stage is absolutely excellent, especially its ability to manage set lists, etc. I’m not playing live at the moment, but I would no longer take racks of gear out. That’s what I used to do, and it was a huge headache. It means you have to do a lot of work in preparing a live show, but something like Ableton and Main Stage are, IMO, the way to go.
My live electronica is hardware based but quite simple . Run from an mpc, and a boss 880 drum machine alternating songs; where all drums and most basslines are sequenced and running a synth each via midi. All pads and top lines are played live on a ms2000 and a blofeld, an odyssey and a kaosalator pro. Everything has its own mutable channel on an analog desk, just a behringer, and sends go to analog delay and an eventide eclipse. I haven't toured this setup but it wouldn't be hard to make resilient. Nothing is ever the same twice but its fun making live acid by the seat of yr pants. I sometimes fail.
That's hilarious! I bought a couple of the Korg volcas I really enjoyed them and I still do for their portability. There's really nothing like having something in my hand and just playing it outside where I feel more inspired. And not to say that I've learned everything that I can from them. I do feel like I want to move on. Then I bought the behringer pro 1 on eBay. After everything said and done I spent about $225 for it. I've been watching your videos for the past few days. I can't wait to get this in my hands and start learning. It's been quite a rabbit hole for me trying to figure out which One to buy for my first true synth. Thank you very much for all your hard work and your videos liked and subscribed! Can't wait for more videos thank you
Oh that is hilarious! I think you’ll really like the Pro-1. It does a lot and when you’ve mastered all of its secrets you’ve pretty much mastered subtractive synthesis. The very first video I ever posted to this channel was pretty terrible in terms of quality but showed how to get Daft Punk sync sounds on it. At some stage I’ll remake that video but in the meantime the content is okay even if it leaves pretty much everything else to be desired. Let me know how you get on!
@DistortThePreamp it was the longest week ever! But it finally came yesterday! Yes, I'm hooked as I knew I would be hahaha. I don't have a proper MIDI controller so I'm just using the Korg volca fm2 as a controller it's pretty sweet so far
That’s really great! Have you rigged it up to a DAW for sequencing? One nice thing to do is to set a sequence running and the tweak the knobs on the Pro-1 to change the sound in real time, while recording the audio. All very difference to recording automation data.
@@DistortThePreamp I haven't done that yet. I've just been playing around with it without my daw for right now. The first thing I need to get is an audio interface. But right now it sounds really cool and it's a lot of fun to play with! My daughter is going crazy with it hahah. She loves pressing all the buttons and turning all the knobs, which is actually why I started getting involved with synthesizers in the first place 😂
I guessed correctly from the first 20 seconds which one it would be. I will be getting my Behringer Pro One tomorrow at a cost including VAT & Delivery in the UK for £159.00. I looked for used but at that price it is a no brainer. I agree with you 100% about the reasons to buy. The fact that the mono synth can be poly chained to other Behringers like the Neutron, Model D or more Pro Ones makes this a great way to build a super synth when budget permits. Great channel by the way. Subbed.
Oh brilliant! FWIW I have three of the monos - the Pro-1, the Model D, and the Neutron - and although I was really interested in the idea of polychaining before I had them it turns out I’m far more interested in inter-patching. Routinely I patch between them on the front. For example, I might ‘borrow’ and LFO from the Model D and patch it into the Neutron etc. it’s completely cured me of any modular interest too ;)
@ Yes! I made a demo of a video a few months ago about how to make the famous Vox Humana patch using exactly those techniques. You need two oscillators but three LFOs, so I rigged it up on the Neutron borrowing the extra LFOs from the Model D and the Pro-1. It sounded amazing but while I was making it Alex Ball and Starsky made their Vox Humana videos and I ended up concluding the idea had been done, and maybe it was too niche anyway. But I might revisit it.
Model D and pro 1 was in a store basket for a long time, seeing your ambient arp, the model d sounded heavenly, so it's my next synth purchase. Thanks for the videos, very educational, I bet people watch your videos without being into synths...
thanks so much for making this video, i have the model d and pro one,. model d always sounds great to me the filter is amazing...... the pro one is more flexable but the filter resonance is not as pleasing to my ears. its harder to dial the pro one into sweet spots for my taste. Runing the pro one mix out into the audio input on moog filter is epic . sounds soo phat.
That’s a really good trick. I was literally doing this today for a weird reason - I’m making a video about bandpassed noise (all will be explained) and I wanted to see if I could use low passes noise on the Pro-1 and then run into the Model D with the filter in high pass mode. It all worked but it was pretty tricky to rig up key tracking on the cutoffs. I was using CV with stacking cables and it didn’t really work 😂I’m so glad you liked this video - it doesn’t get as much love as the others but it’s definitely an authentic presentation of how I feel. So thanks for watching. amd for commenting!
@@DistortThePreamp i love the moog mix out into the filter in 303 (if your select half way betten square and saw osc it turns off the interal 303 osc sound) i find it too hard to program the 303 so i play it on keys . only issue is theres no filter pitch trach) your noise experment sounds like its getting into eurorack land hehe I cant handle any thing more complex than an ms 20 im scare off all those patch cables . what ever your doing keep doing it . more people will come to watch and relax
Hahaha! Actually the noise solo is just noise through a band pass with keyboard tracking and a four note sequence to change the filter every bar on a four bar loop! There’s honestly zero complicated routing! All of the ‘game’ is playing the Drawmer gate controls like an instrument - so throwing it in and out of bypass, changing the hold, range etc. Super easy, but a very cool sound!
It would be nice to have a video where you show starting point to make the basic sounds you mention: utility sounds, crystal leads (?), pluck, Italian bass (?), PWM bass, drone, theramin (?)...
@@DistortThePreamp This video is actually fine and I decided to complement my Neutron with a Pro-1. ;-) However, it would be nice to have another overview video of basic/classic presets as starting points for these hardware synths.
The limited edition boutique version of the Jupiter? Oh that’s such an interesting module. I always meant to get one but never for round to it and I wasn’t sure where I’d put it in my setup. So you got it with the mini keyboard? That sounds so awesome. Did you find the small sliders a problem? I’m guessing not…
@@DistortThePreamp Yes the boutique edition 😉. The small sliders are ok, but you sometimes have to adjust very little and carefully to find the sweet spot 🙈. The mod ribbons on the left side are the parts of the module that react poorly and hardly allow fine controlled modulations. 😊
My first synth was a JU-06a and I love it. It's an affordable Juno in a tiny box with usb! The JX-08 beats it in almost every category, but the JU-06A visual design is amazing. Have to give a shoutout for the Neutron too. It's a great way to learn synthesis with the semi-modular architecture.
That’s a fabulous synth. As many people have commented, although it’s technically limited the sweet spot is very wide. Is the form factor okay? I’ve tried one once and I reckon I could throw up sounds on it despite the tiny sliders… they’re 20mm right? I actually really love all those boutiques. The only thing that I would find a little annoying is the stereo mini-jack output. I would have preferred full size jacks that are less likely to break. But I understand why they had to keep the sockets small. Also I guess I would just fit a permanent adaptor and tape it to the box so the minijack would never come under strain. And I *really* approve of the full size midi ports. Incidentally, I don’t know how much experience you’ve got of playing the ‘real thing’ but ignore people who go on about how the boutiques don’t sound exactly the same. It doesn’t matter. Playing matters.
As you started to enumerate all the features a first synth should have, the Arturia Minibrute was at the forefront of my suggestions. Then you dropped the two oscillator bombshell :-D The other downside to the Minibrute is the horrible rubber coating they used on the controls and side panels, as it turns to a sticky goo after a few years exposure to sunlight. My solution was to replace all the knobs with aluminium ones, all the slider caps with uncoated ones and the side panels with wooden ones. Downside to that is I probably spent the same again on those parts as I did for the second hand Minibrute itself, but then again I love the little beastie so much that I doubt I'll ever sell it.
One trick that I use a lot with model D is to patch over 2.5volts DC current to lc gate to make it drone (it stays in the sustain phase). When you input a midi note the filter envelope is still triggered to adjust the sound timbre. To me that makes playing solos much more comfortable as I dont have to keep keys pressed to sustain a sound
"But can it do pulse width modulation?" (C) A reasonable advice, however I think learning synths by using a classic "2+ detuned oscillators into a filter" architecture is a bit outdated. Therefore I think the best learning synth is a Microfreak. For exactly that approach that I totally agree with - "take your existing project and make the synth one of the parts". But what one should learn is oscillator(s)-filter dynamic. The oscillators detuning is a much lower level detail. You don't have that detuned pair in some wavetable synths but they are still capable. Zebralette has only one oscillator but it's a monster. And if money isn't an issue the ideal learning synth is Korg Opsix.
I think this is quite an interesting idea. I think I’m still inclined to teach subtractive first, but that’s not to say I’m correct - waveyable synths are very interesting and, of course, *all over* iconic 80s recordings in the form of the PPG. You also make an interesting point about the Opsix. I love programming FM but, again, in my experience, people struggle to get their heads around the concepts. Having said that one of the wonderful things about FM is that it’s easy to get sounds that don’t particularly sound like anything you’ve heard before. Really appreciate you watching and taking the time to comment :)
@@DistortThePreamp well, Opsix isn't necessarily about FM, it's just one of its capabilities. I recently started to make a patch of synthetic percussion on it for one of my projects, made some nice sounds using noise into resonant filter but didn't use FM because I just didn't need it so far (but probably will use it for some hihat-like sounds). It's what I like about Opsix - it's a set of simple tools - filter, oscillator, FM, ring mod, filter FM - that are put into some structure making a more complex whole but it's up to you to decide what that structure is. You can just have 6 oscillators sounding in parallel, or three pairs of oscillator + filter, or filter output modulating another filter's frequency, some very classic architectures or some experimental ones. I think it's good for learning because it makes one pay attention to the architecture of audio signal path. Maybe a perfect hardware for learning would be a modular setup with small amount of very simple modules... but I guess that wouldn't be very affordable.
I’ve always thought that the ARP 2600 is the perfect learning synth. Probably in its original large scale format. I think it might even have been used as a teaching synth…
@@DistortThePreamp the 2600 is the best learning synth fitting your constraints. Except the price, about 500 € in the Behringer version. As far as I recall, it was designed with teaching in mind, but I have to look it up to confirm my statement.
It really is the best mono in my opinion and I’m sure (again, without looking it up which as we all know is cheating) that it was conceived as a teaching synth. If somebody has (a) the budget, (b) the desk space, and (c) was prepared to put in proper time, then this is surely the perfect synth to learn on. I’m still trying to figure out what the best synth to learn additive would be… it’s a much harder thing to teach I think because the timbres are less intuitive…
Great video - lots of great information from experience. Very much appreciated. The logical question, then, is: when are you going to make videos on learning subtractive synthesis using the Behringer Pro-1? I, for one, would be more than happy to follow along.
i currently have 7 synths, ive bought and sold about the same previously as either they didnt sit right with me or UI wasnt what i wanted. I always buy second hand to avoid taking a hit, you rarely get chance to get "hands on" with a synth before you buy so this has worked for me.
Yeah, I totally agree. I never buy new, and I re-sell about half within a few months. Over the last year I’ve stopped buying at all because for some reason my rig seems to have ‘settled down’. I’m not sure how long this will last, but this happened with guitar pedals too - I went through about twenty years of constantly trying and eventually converged on what for me seems to be a perfect setup. I suppose what I’ve done is created a bit of friction in that buying a new pedal or synth would pretty much mean getting rid of an existing one because I have a fixed size for my racking and pedalboard. So as I’m writing this I’m realising that that might actually be a key thing - get to the stage where you can operate a ‘one in one out’ policy with gear and mysteriously you eventually stop buying gear. It’s a total GAS cure.
@@DistortThePreamp i may have reached that stage also. Im tempted by Erica Synth DRM but im hoping the anthology library on Uno Drum will keep me occupied for a while.
real interesting video, I wish I had found a guide like this a few years ago. I'm new to learning music in general, but I'm always interested in learning new things. A couple of years back, not knowing what to buy, what to do, who to ask, or what the hell I was doing, I just purchased a couple of items and hoped for the best. The items I bought were the MS-1 and a Deepmind 12. However the Deepmind almost put me off learning! I decided to box it back up, to solely concentrated ton the Monosynth MS-1, which was probably the best thing I could have done, as it was a way simpler way of learning, I simply love its ease of use and transparency. This year I decided to delve back in with something new, still afraid of the Deeepmind 12 but still wanting to learn, I purchased the Pro-800, and between this and theMS-1, I feel like I'm starting to learn! these two together seem great. (The Deepmind will stay in the cupboard until I feel ready, great as I'm sure it is, Its a scary monster compared to those others)
This is a really interesting story. I absolutely agree that a mono synth is the best way to learn. And also that the DeepMind is very uninspiring until you crack it. I love mine now, but I sent mine back before I bought it again. All the presets are horrific, but that’s true of all modern preset synths because nobody pays sound designers like they did in the old days when the presets sold the synth. Until recently I used to detest the effects on the DeepMind too. But when I started making videos for RUclips I had to figure them out because, as a matter of policy, I wasn’t using any DAW effects. And it turns out they’re really good! I would still never track (record) with the effects in, but they can be very useful when working up sketches. I would also never use them live as they would play havoc with the mix - pedals are a much better option. But, honestly, I think the DeepMind is probably the best value for money poly out there, sounds great, and is very underrated. Having said all of that, the Pro-800 is extraordinary. You obv need the firmware update that makes the envelopes faster (and, ironically, less authentic) but it’s an absolute beast of a poly.
@@DistortThePreamp certainly, interesting you bought the Deepmind again, I can see how good it is, but it’s to good and wasted on someone like me, I certainly prefer the simpler synths like the ms-1 and pro-800. I was really torn wether to get the pro-1 or the 800, wasn’t sure how different the learning curve would be, but since I already had one mono synth I thought I’d take the plunge (still not sure if that was the correct choice, but time will tell, and it wouldn’t be difficult to trade it or sell it and purchase a pro-). The trickiest part with learning the pro-800 is not knowing/seeing where the perimeters are set (without software), which is probably the reason the ms-1 has been incredibly easy to learn, is you can always visually see the settings.
Haha, yeah. I’ve never tried the crave but I always wondered if you could use it like a more flexible 303? In other words for mid-range repeating bass parts. The Poly D is, of course, fantastic.
@@DistortThePreampThe crave is great with a 2 osc modular paired with it. I pair it with my Wasp (2 osc outputs) so both synths run on 3 oscillators each on the same Midi channel. I also found a single osc was easier for me to manage. I also wanted to learn a vintage sequencer with a nightmare interface 😂
A Superb delivery of points very well made. Brilliant- and yes, for me the B pro 1 would have been the exact recommendation based on your initial criteria. It worked for me when I purchased one a few years ago bereft of knowledge beyond pre sets and 1000 gtr pedals! That said, I would love to see a desk top version of the BS 2. As you touched upon (no pun) the keys were a waste of space etc, rather like me but the pro 1 has given me so much. Thanks- top content.
I got my firsth synth in 2002. A Korg MS 2000, used, for 300 €. 49 knobs, everything is on the surface and you hear what knob does what straight away. A fantastic machine to learn subtractive snthesis and have looooots of fun doing it.
I hate Behringer as a company but hard to deny that your list is spot on. That Behringer itself was spot on when they made these. I personally really like the k2 as well, where while the sound itself is a bit niche, it's an excellent synth to program. And the Neutron of course. But yeah, model D and Pro One really are just no brainers.
Oh Amazing! Obviously it’s a great synth but make sure you don’t overlook things like oscillator sync! The very first video I uploaded to this channel was shockingly bad - I had made it to remind myself how to make a sound and I just posted it to get over fear of upload. But it does, just about, show you how to make a hard sync sound. I *really apologise* for it not being at the standard, but it will at least show you the basics :)
@DistortThePreamp I got a basic bass patch going, a la Dare, and then checked and realised the firmware was well out of date. I patched it up and without changing any knobs, the sound changed but also improved, luckily 😆
@@DistortThePreamp I bought my first synth in 2012. It was a Korg Monotribe. I learnt the basics, but work got in the way and didn't use it for 9 or 10 years. Then, sold it and bought the Volca Bass and Keys, which I sold a few months later. And then started making music with soft synths.
Soft synths sound so good nowadays. The reason I don’t use them (at the moment) has absolutely nothing to do with the sound quality - it’s purely a workflow thing in that I like playing physical keyboards and turning controls with both hands. Although the Arturia Lab system is pretty interesting. And I can’t imagine ever totally giving up Serum. I still use that for the kind of sound design stuff that requires a wave table synth
@@DistortThePreamp I totally understand you. Inspired by your video I'm contemplating to buy the Behringer Model 15 (As I love Moog's Model 15 app) or the Pro-1 : )
For the little story, I still remember sitting on the college stairs with the guy who now owns Arturia and saying to me "my friend made a cool music software and I think we are going to sell it". He was really obsessed into setting up a business at the time. Cool guy (i attended his wedding) who helped me make a company later on. So yeah, buy Arturia ;) ...
Great channel, subbed straightaway. Got myself a minibrute 2 some years ago. A bit higher priced and with keyboard (which is btw much better than the one on the original minibrute). WYSIWYG, and the patch bay is great once you get the basics. I would add a decent budget fx unit/pedal, something like a zoom ms70cdr, it really ups the experience.
I actually found you while I had already decided on Behringer Model D as my first synth, I definitely like the Pro-1 too though. I will probably get both at some point anyway and if I'm honest I already have two VSTs that emulate the Moog... Damn, I might go for the Pro-1 as my first one instead... You made a great case for it and since I mainly make HipHop it will for sure also have a place in my production
My ‘confession’ is that I actually bought the Model D first lol. They’re both fantastic and there is *no substitute* for dialing in a sound using your hands with knobs - you just can’t do that with a plugin. Also the Model D is always hilariously out of tune when you fire it up, and even when it’s been on drifts a little but. Plugins don’t emulate that, or the way that you tune the oscillators by ear. The Pro-1 is more of a workhorse though. Obviously you need both, plus the Wasp, Cat, Neutron, and all of them. And a barn to put them in along with a huge patchbay.
@@DistortThePreamp so much to think about lol, and yeah I already feel I NEED alot of Behringer synths lol, but I have to start somewhere... Heck... Probably the Model D and later the Pro-800 before going haywire for all :D like - I wish the Behringer DS-80 was out lol
Haha! Although, with regard to your comment about the Behringer CS-80 clone, I’ve been incredibly impressed with their UB-Xa because of its poly-aftertouch. In my view the main thing that the CS-80 had that no other synths had was its ability to control the expression of a note _after_ it had already been played through, mainly, poly aftertouch. Sure the oscillators sounded fantastic and it had lots of other features, but really it was the poly aftertouch. This is why, again IMO, I would take the Behringer UB-Xa over any genuine Oberheim at any price. I think Vangelis would love the Behringer UB-Xa…
@@DistortThePreamp actually landed on a used Behringer Pro-800 in the end, for only €380 - together with the Keystep 37 wich i already have it's a analogue 8 polyphonic synthesizer with aftertouch... Insane...
Oh that’s totally insane! And what an amazing synth the Pro-800 is! Have you installed the firmware update that makes the envelopes faster? It’s so funny that Behringer faithfully imitated the slow envelopes of the original only to have the users complain! Really the updated faster envelopes make it much more like a Prophet V in terms of its sound capabilities. I’ve banned myself from buying new gear, but the Pro-800 would be very high on my list. Possibly at the top. I always run out of polys when I’m working stuff up live, and it would be so useful. Also, they’re VCOs not DCOs but you can run a *tuning routine*, right?! And the parameters are midi addressable over cc? Just amazing. I have a rack DeepMind (which is a very underrated synth) and one of the things I do all the time is setup a long sequence playing notes and another short looping sequence sending parameter changes to, say, the VCA decay. Uli deserves some kind of medal.
i bought the Behringer Model D, because it is quite simple and sounds good with little effort. i am still waiting on it, hope it turns out as i want it to be :)
Old Arturia Microbrute, hands on the best synth! Even has a keyboard and a sequencer/arpeggiator. If you gonna go down the behringer route then the Crave.
Sharing my experience: got into hardware synths waaaay late in life (soft synths where just too easy) but forcing myself to learn synthesis has been a 200% valuable. My first hardware synth was the Arturia MicroBrute. Sure, only one oscillator, but it was perfect to learn everything. That allowed me to graduate to getting the Pro-1, the K2 and the WASP (BTW, the WASP is ridiculously cool and unique and I recommend it any day.) I literally have ALL the big soft synths but there is nothing like doing things yourself and creating your own sounds. Priceless. Next stop for me: a hardware poly synth. :) GREAT video.
Amusingly my nickname is Wasp and I’ve never actually owned a Wasp! It’s on my list though, especially for the filter. Such a cool synth. In terms of a hardware poly, don’t rule out the DeepMind. The worst thing about it is that the keyboard doesn’t have enough octaves and all the patches are gross. However if you spend time figuring it out it’s ridiculously powerful and costs like £380. It’s essentially a souped up Juno clone (which is how it started life) but with three envelopes, a tuneable sub, two LFOs, hard sync, unison detune, a very good arpeggiator, a control sequencer (to sequence control parameters), an extensive mod matrix etc etc etc. There are also a load of digital effects which I always used to bypass but tbh nowadays I’m actually starting to use. Especially in RUclips videos where I want some delay and reverb (although I never track with the FX). Separately, if you have a higher budget the Behringer UB-Xa is a mental synth. I mean it has poly aftertouch!!?!?!?!? I must sound like I’m on commission - I’m really not! But the value is astonishing…
@@DistortThePreamp WASPs are super affordable on Reverb right now. Everything about that synth is unique. The filters, the envelopes, the oscillators, you name it. Thank you Behringer for bringing it to the masses. In terms of the poly search, I'm in need of a desktop model (no room for a keybed version). Waiting on the UBXaD and also have been eyeing the Hydrasynth. I guess there is always the Pro800...
Yeah the Pro-800 is possible. But a desktop version of the UB-Xa might be more fun. Although the (low) price of the Pro-800 is nothing short of insane.
Appreciate the video, already have a Pro 1 and I really like using it. What would you recommend to go with it? I was looking at the Solina string ensemble 🤔
That’s such a hard question. I think it should definitely be a poly, and the String Ensemble is definitely a possibility. Assuming you like the small form factor of the Pro-1, have you considered the Pro-800?
My first synth is a Roland TB-303. I bought it when I was 14, it was bloody expensive. But I really wanted THAT sound. For about two years, I could not afford anything else, but I happily synced it to vinyl. Manually, just as I did with two records on my Technics 1210s. So... I am already done with my first synth. Can you please tell me what my LAST synth could be? Great channel btw ❤
This is such an interesting and hard question! I’ve been thinking about it - perhaps one way to consider the question is to ask what synth would completely satisfy your needs? There are certainly a few things I would want. For example, I would want at least five octaves if not six (if not eight), proper bi-timbrailty so I could split the keyboard and play different patches with each hand, proper controls with no menu-diving, and so the list goes on. If it were the mid 80s I would have said that the Jupiter 8 was the best (ignoring specialist synths like the CS-80) mainly because of the keyboard split. Today it’s quite hard. I would be *extrenely* happy with the Behringer UB-Xa which has five octaves, is properly bi-timbral, has 16 note polyphony, polyphonic aftertouch, and extensive midi. Beyond that I’d be tempted so start talking about eight octave weighted controller keyboards which sort of misses the point. I feel very at sea with this question…
I fell in love with the Access Virus B and bought it back in 1999. It sounds incredible but was (and still is) overwhelming because menu navigation to the routing was beyond my skills 25 years ago. VCV Rack has taught me heaps and I really like your production tips and techniques.
Oh thank you so much! I’m forever saying that good gear isn’t so critical and cheap gear will do, but the Access Virus B is a *fantastic* sounding instrument.
@@DistortThePreamp there are two soft versions of the Virus - Adam Szabo has made a glorious interpretation which will load the libraries for the Virus, and another group has made a full DSP emulation so it is the actual instrument in code. I am very much enjoying your videos and seeing if I can convince Reason 13's sidechain to sound as good as your gates (you considerably more experience with this than me) and I can hear that there is much to be achieved by finessing the hold and release parameters. Cheers!
I’m watching this video atm. Do you mention what daw you use is it Logic Pro X and do you Quantise automate time sync layers ? Cheers and a great video would be on this and Quantise layers time sync and how to lip sync your song to a video clip so the lips are perfect time to the music. Is there even a software that time syncs this nowadays? Cheers 🥂
Hi. I don’t mention what DAW I use deliberate because (a) I don’t want to start a war, and (b) my choice is very specific to some unusual setup requirements I have. I was an Ableton user since version 5, and still use it for processing midi and some of things only it can do, but a few years ago I switched to Pro Tools. There are a lot of things that Pro Tools can do that pretty much only Pro Tools can do. I’ve also got Logic but I almost never use that. Having said all of that I wouldn’t recommend any DAW without knowing the circumstances, and the DAW I recommend most of the time is Logic because it’s pretty much fully featured and very affordable. And for electronic in the box musicians I tend to recommend Ableton.
In my case it was not difficult to pick my first synth because my wife bought it as a present for me.😊 A friend was selling it used. It was the Korg MS2000B.
Yep, go watch the studio tour with the synth guy from portushead he has a notebook with his settings for each song that he took with him on tour to setup the patches for each song for every song, yep had to set all the parameters by hand for every synth for every song through the whole live performance.
This takes me back to 1982 when I bought my first synth a Moog Prodigy - a cut down Minimoog on a tight budget. At the time the Prodigy MkII (has interface jacks on the back) was £219 for 2 oscillators and 2 envelopes over the £249 Roland SH-09 single oscillator with Sub and single envelope. Sound wise, there was nothing between this little Moog and the Sequential Circuits Pro one at £449. The Pro One has a very comprehensive modulation section and full ADSR envelopes over the Moog. I also like how your main choices actually compliment each other sonically and there is no wrong answer as to which one to choose first.
Yes. Those the Model D and the Pro-1 were the first two Behringer clones I bought and they are very different in ways which are not obvious from the front panel. I'm probably guilty of not reaching enough for the Model D for non-bass sounds. Must try harder.
Around the same time (1983) I bought my first real synth, a Moog Rogue, on sale for $99 (new!) at Sam Ash. I think it checks all of these boxes, and I still have it.
@@edgeof60 Very nearly got the Rogue when it came out to compliment the Prodigy but ended up saving for an ARP Omni instead as I'd played a friend's and liked the Jean Michel Jarre Oxygene/Equinoxe sound and those 'icy' strings. The Rogue was so tempting because it has V-Triggers so can interface with Roland and ARP gear.
My first synth (apart from a Casio VL-Tone) was a Moog Rogue in 1982. Pretty basic but it’s how I learned about synths along with using a friend’s Roland SH101. Sad to say that I don’t have it anymore…
Oh that would have been a good starting point. I had a VL-Tone too. It turns out it was a little more programmable than I understood at the time, and I still miss that Fantasy patch. Apparently Behringer is considering a clone. I kid you not 😂
Just a wonder. Those of us with a software model d and several midi controllers, will assigning all the dials on the software to a midi controller dial effectively achieve the same result. Sure we won’t have the same analog flux or de tune, but from a pure learning perspective will it give me the same learning experience? I would love to buy a whole room of synths and gates, step sequencers, drum machines and the works, but realistically the lack of cash flow as an aspiring musician sort of rules it all out. As you said a but too late for some of us, owning a plug-in has just about zero resale value so trying to make a sandwich out of the dog’s breakfast is about all some of us can hope for. Any practical advice is appreciated. (Btw: love the channel and learning so much so thank you immensely)
This is a really interesting question. I think it could, and to be honest you wouldn’t really have to assign ALL the dials. The Arturia V collection imitations are pretty good (though I would bypass the effects section) and their MiniMoog for example is easily good enough for a production. I’ve never used their custom pre-mapped keyboard but I hear great things about it. The premise of the video assumed that the viewer wanted to buy a first analog synth. But if you don’t, then I think mapping software controllers to an analog classic soft synth might be a good thing to try. Do you have a midi controller and keyboard?
@@DistortThePreamp I know the original premise was for purchasing a first hardware synthesizer at a reasonable low cost. Sadly for me being in Canada, though I am originally from England, is availability of used synths are pretty slim and can cost almost as much as new when factoring in P&H. I did grab the Moog Model D app from MoogMusic when it initially launched for the iPad that works on Mac with M2 chip very well for sub $20. Now I am not likely to try using this for live performances, it will hopefully work well enough as a learning tool. I have got a Novation Launchkey49 and Control XL (that were bought used for a reasonable cost) so ample pots, sliders and buttons along with 4 octaves of note keys. As you’re said, if the goal is to learn before spending the money on a larger synthesizer, then hopefully this model D is a reasonable starting point. If I get back to London to visit family, I will have to look you up and buy you a pint.. cheers mate.
what a twist of luck and fate. Found a Behringer Pro 1 about 20km from my home for sale. Will see if I can get it down sub $250. Will get to see if I can make that sweet pluck sound too. The software model D does work with midi assigned controllers but still can’t seem to dial in the sweet spot sound. Thanks again for the great videos you are making.
Oh wow! I really do love that synth so much! Someone asked me to make the Kraftwerk Zap sound. Took literally a minute. There’s a trick though because you need to use a sine wave and on the face of it the Pro-1 doesn’t have a sine wave… except that it does… you get A LOT OF POINTS if you know how to get a sine wave out of a Pro-1… any ideas?
I remember reading somewhere that many of the Analog Synths don't come with a sine wave so you make one up with a saw tooth running through the filter set to 25-50%. Now I haven't had a chance to test this out as my Pro-1 got held up with the seller taking a business trip. On the plus side I did get my sub $250 so I will happily wait for my toy.
Kobol Expander was my first proper synth. Does that count ? I think that I like using patch cables... But I miss not having a sequencer. So I returned it and am thinking of a Korg Monologue.
First off, love your channel! My first h/w synth was a Neutron, which I really enjoy, and it has taught me a lot. I’d love to know how well (or not) it compares to a Pro-1 - I’ve always been impressed with the sound of the Pro-1 on various RUclips videos. I also have a Model D 👍 which I get on well with, and a Modal Skulpt 👎 which I don’t. Regarding USB MIDI, I have an issue with the Model D where it does some weird kind of buffering thing where triggers get missed, but when you play the next note it plays what should have been the note before. Other times there’s a good 1-second delay in notes coming through. So… MIDI cables FTW!
Ah, I live my Neutron but it does sound different. Originally I always used to patch around the overdrive and delay circuits to get a ‘purer’ sound. But your question is very interesting because it goes to the heart of why synths sound different. Sure it could be the oscillators or the filter, but it’s also the programming interface. I think I should be able to replicate Pro-1 sounds on the Neutron but blending and mixing oscillators isn’t quite the same as just turning them up. And fast switching from square to saw like you can on the Pro-1 isn’t the same on the Neutron. So the reality is that I *never* us the Neutron for bass or plucks simply because I can dial up the sounds easier on the Pro-1. What I *do* use the Neutron for is very sharp percussive sequenced sound, drones, and stuff that’s more suited to it. Also, these days, I prefer to keep the OD and delay circuits in. Couple more points: have you seen my video on Noise? That’s obv done with the Neutron because it has a resonant band pass filter. And finally, I made a fantastic Vox Humana patch using the Neutron but ‘borrowing’ LFOs from the Model D and Pro-1. I was going to make a video but became convinced it would be boring and Vox Humana ‘had been done’. Really appreciate you watching, and your comments.
Forgot to reply to your USB midi comment. Yup - Midi din all the way. I keep USB plugged up for the editor so that I can do things like change the waveform selector from continuous to stepped (because I am never gonna learn those crazy panel combinations) but I find USB midi to be very weird and unpredictable. So I only use Midi din. I’m running about 20 channels of Midi over two circuits, and one of them gets distributed through a Yamaha midi box from the 80s. I get congestion, and sometimes one of my old drum machines can’t cope and drops snares and kicks. But it’s still better. And when it comes time to track, I stop all the musical synths and just play the rhythm track into the daw. I get midi drift, nothings perfectly on the grid, and it all sounds amazing. In fact when I moved everything onto a grid it sounded like computer music. So yeah, Midi cables FTW.
I enjoy my Neutron very much. But I would say that the Neutron is a fantastic synth for people who already understand subtractive and want to learn modular, but not as good a learning synth as either the Model D or Pro-1 (or Arturia Minibrute if you want something with keys). It's a bit too complicated even without the patchbay, and I wouldn't want people to learn on a synth that has an osciallator mixer rather than a volume control for each. But, as I say, if you know how to programme mono synths and you're thinking of getting into modular than the Neutron would be a fantastic choice. I also credit it with preventing me from falling down a modular trap as it turned out to be all I need. Incidentally, I started out bypassing the built in overdrive and delay, but now routinely use them in -- the delay has a real character and the overdrive serves as a sort of tone control! I also often patch my Neutron between my Model D and Pro-1.
It's a shame the original Minibrute only has one oscillator, as it's such a great synth to learn on. The layout of the controls that follow the signal path, the logical use of faders for ADSR envelopes, and the ability to set the filter as highpass, lowpass, notch, really make it ideal for learning. If you could get that, then trade it in later for a Behringer Model D, I think that would be a good logical progression before you get into advanced signal patching.
I absolutely agree. I have the original MiniBrute and, exactly as you say, I think it’s the best learning synth. The form factor isn’t quite as small as the Model D or Pro-1 and I’m not sure that it will hold its resale value as well. But it should as it’s an amazing synth. Also the complaint that most people have about it sounding too driven is absolutely bogus and simply means they’re driving the oscillators too hard into the filter. Back then off to about 50% and the synth sounds very different. Not better, just different.
Just found your channel and loving it having just started out making music. I bought the Behringer Kobol expander as a first synth (before I saw this vid)..any thoughts on this one?
Oh I think they’re both incredible! I would still be inclined to recommend the Pro-1 for learning simply because it’s WYSIWYG but obviously the Pro-800 is far more powerful!
Great question! Once upon a time we would have filled in patch sheets, but now I mostly just take photos and file them in the session folder. This is the main reason why I’ve swapped my knobs - to make them easier to read on photos. I do still sometimes use patch sheets but only if there are extra notes I want to make about the sound. Thanks for watching, and for taking the time to comment :)
If an agree to all of your points, the one I don’t agree with is the subtractive mono synth. I’d like to learn FM Synthesis in your prescribed way.. So the interface should be like the megaFM synth. But it should have the waveforms of the Korg Opsix And the algorithms should operated like the matrix of the EMS VCS 3. And the envelopes of Yamaha dx7 So essentially what the Opsix is, just with some improvements. Although from a philosophical point filters are not necessary, but add the beloved Low pass filter*. And a comb filter just to please me.** If the waveforms are there I’d be content with 4 operators. If a comb filter is an effect, why is a low pass filter not also an effect? If filters is such an essential ingredient, why is often only a low pass filter there? There are high pass, band pass, low shelf, notch, formant and other filters.** And size? A synth should have knobs that are adequate for men so microfreak is the bare minimum. ** = we’re living in the year 2024, we don’t have to chastise us down to the level of the 1980ties.
You make interesting points. The reason why low pass is the traditional filter is because the way people typically think about subtractive synthesis is to start with a sound that's rich in harmonics and then take them away, and obviously harmonics are above the fundamental. So filter's are really about harmonics control, although of course they could also be about tone shaping. FM is a fascinating type of synthesis but very hard for people to understand, unless they just want to turn knobs and see what happens. So I tend to think that people should start by learning what the waveforms sound like, and once they can distinguish a saw from a square easily and understand why those waveforms sound different then they can move into why hard syncing one oscillator to another can change the shape of a sine wave and add harmonics, and clipping a sine turns it into a square, and so on. I think people that understand subtractive well should be able to look at a mono synth panel and known what sound it would make by reading the controls. Whereas a lot of people couldn't necessarily explain from scratch how to use FM to make a cymbal or bell, and why that sound is produced. This is not to disagree with you -- I absolutely think your point of view is legitimate! -- but personally I'm still inclined to 'teach' subtractive before FM :-) Really appreciate your comment though!
@@DistortThePreamp FM, I think, isn’t that complicated. It lacks A. people who teach it in a non-complicated way B.FM synthesisers that support that fully. For B: I’d like to have an oscilloscope, a spectrum analyser, many outputs that can be routed into those displays, showing you the waveforms you start with and you end up with(meaning show separately the frequencies of the each operator , the resulting FM output of each stack and the final result. Make it show lissajous figures, chladni figures. An XY- controller 10by10 cm to change 2 parameters at once. The subtractive synth that would support that would be Modular synths but every synth learner of any type would profit from that. At least that’s my opinion. For A. FM is believed to be complicated because the first FMsynth had an unfriendly user interface. Show what an LFO does but use a full frequency oscillator. That’s all what’s behind FM. Algorithms are just layering things in different ways and if you look with that in mind they’re easy to understand. At first just use integer ratios 1:1, 1:3, 2:1 experiment. The Opsix is a step in the right direction, but it leaves room for improvement (at least on the education side) If a subtractive user is allowed to use delay and reverb, so are you.
@@hermask815 I think you're right on both points. For B, like you say, something that would give you a visual representation would be helpful, as would having a seriously basic FM synth. Limit operators e.g. allow only 2 operators to be carriers, 2 to be modulators, and maybe re-name some of the parameters to sound less mathematical - have a knob that alters ratios without calling them that for example. FM came well after subtractive so I think to make FM understandable to more people it really needs to be explained and represented in a way that's as similar as possible to what people already know, while still somehow explaining the principles. Which are simple in nature - it's sine waves interfering with sine waves - but complex to visualise and anticipate.
The Pro-800 is *such* a great synth! The only reason I didn’t recommend it for beginners is that, because of the presets, you can’t visually match the knob positions to the sound you’re hearing which I don’t think is great when you’re learning. I suppose, ironically, I would prefer it *not* to have presets for beginners because, for me, a beginner’s synth should be a tutorial tool rather than the most features for the lowest price. However, I’m aware that a lot of people would disagree with that point of view and, certainly, it’s a more flexible synth. And it’s also a little more expensive. Really appreciate you watching and taking the time to comment :)
@@DistortThePreamp There is the perf button, which causes the synth to take all of its instructions from the panel rather than any preset data, effectively making it 'preset-less'. Beginners might not pick up on this distinction, however, and just get confused. Seems like presetless, knob per function is the way to go for a first synth. I like the idea of 'earning your patches'
‘Earning your patches’ is a great way of summing it up 😂 I was starting to feel a little silly when, in my earlier reply, I realised that I was effectively saying that patches weren’t a good idea for beginners! But I do think it’s true…
I remember it was quite easy for me to buy "my 1st synth" in 1985. The choice was simple, it was the one I can afford. An alpha Juno 1 (didn't have the money for the "2") 😁
Ah, so many people have asked me this and I can’t remember! I think it must have been eBay. Though it might have been a specialist knobs website. What I can tell you is that they were quite easy to source because it’s a standard D fitting. They look great on video, but the reason I got them was entirely practical. First, I needed to be able to read the settings at a distance which is impossible on, say, the Model D stock knobs. And I needed the settings to be clear in photos too which is how I store most of my patches (unless they need explanation). But the second reason was that I used to have them racked up low and in terrible light so I also needed the colours so I could distinguish between the envelopes 😂
I think the Kobol is an excellent synth. I think it’s a little more complicated than either of the Model D or the Pro-1, plus because it’s not based on such a well known classic I’m not sure that it will be quite as easy to buy or sell at the right price. However, if anybody decided to choose that for their first synth then it’s a fantastic instrument!
@@thestonedrummer6147 The Pro-1 is mono which means it can only play one note at a time, and for pads you really need to be able to play chords. However the Pro-800 is excellent for pads (as are many others).
It's all very true about getting first a mono with no keyboard and no presets and not spending that much. For people learning Model D is a bit weird interface wise. Now that Behringer is making a clone of the Grandmother that could be on your list too in that budget. I have the Grandmother which sounds amazing I'm gonna assume the clone does too and the interface is a total improvement over the Minimoog/Model D interface which is gonna make the beginner scratch their head a bit. For sure the Pro-One is great like all Sequential synths for both sounds and that feeling of looking at the panel and understanding everything. The Neutron is also interesting from Behringer. I had Minibrute when I got into synths and then Minibrute 2 and 2S which all had great interfaces but even without overdriving the oscillators in the mixer neither of these sounds anywhere as good as Grandmother or Pro-One or even Cat or... wait for it... Akai Timbre Wolf, which is totally limited but sounded better than any of the Arturia analog monos. Way better. No comparison. I don't why that is but it's true.
I know there’s supposed to be no dumb questions, but I think I might… you have talked about using midi to trigger a Monday synth and gave an example with what seemed to be multi layered sounds. can you show the process. i am a guitar player with a Moog Grandmother that i love. But, so far, I've not worked out how to send midi triggers made in my DAW (logic) back to it. further, how did you get the layers? By running and bouncing multiple times?
Not a stupid question at all! But just to check, when you wrote ‘…midi to trigger a Monday synth…’ that was autocorrect, right? You meant to write ‘Moog’? Could you also, possibly, give me the time code of the video so I’ve got context? Appreciate you watching and your comments :)
@@DistortThePreamp thanks for the reply. Well, my question has multiple errors when I think and look back sorry. Yes, Moog Grandmother is my synth. So it has USB and midi in/out. When I look back, it was actually your Ambient Arps video that I had in mind where you say (or I understood) you created (with a live performance) and midi sequence which was then used to trigger the Model D and Pro synths to get a good comparison. So…., I guess my questions are (a) I cam make a midi sequence in Logic, but how practically do I get that to “trigger” (maybe the wrong word) the Grandmother. So far I’ve no succeeded, and (b) is the track you produced the outcome of one play through a single midi sequence, or were there multiple sequences you ran one after another to get the final audio? My question came about as I thought I was hearing layers and multiple notes from a mono synth. On reflection, maybe that was partly your point. Maybe that’s the delay cascades? Just FyI, I’m a guitar player in my 60s who is proving out the cliche as I buy my first synth and peak my head down that rabbit hole. Help me, I’m afraid I might be falling…….
No problem at all! Let me start by telling you about how I made the ambient arps music. First I created the arps by playing them live into my sequencer which recorded the midi. I was playing chords with an eight note arpeggiator running but so that I could hear an approximation of the finished effect I was playing against a kick drum and also monitoring the sound of the synth through the dotted eight delay. I needed both hands for the arps as well as a foot for the sustain pedal so I couldn't manipulated the controls on the synth as well! However, to be clear, it was a genuine single live take with no editing. From memory I set the track record length to something huge like 128 bars and just kept improvising until I could tell it was looping back Then, once the arps were recorded (note: actually only the chords were recorded since the arp is a midi effect in the sequencer) I played it back out only this time I was standing at the synth manipulating the sound. This also mean that the arp music for both synths was exactly the same notes. There's only one part and no layers, but as you guessed the combination of the cascading delays and reverb make for a very full sound. Second, let me talk about you controlling your synth from Logic. Unfortunately I'm not a Logic expert, but the principal (regardless of daw) will be this: - you create a midi track, sometimes called an instrument track - you drag the midi clip onto that track - you set the output of the midi to be your synth which should appear in a drop down list. You may have to pick the output midi channel and then make sure your Moog matches, but that's won't be hard. - it's possible that you might have to go through some pain with the Apple Midi Setup (or whatever it's called these days). My strong guess, however, is that you won't and everything will be plug and play. I'm so sorry that I don't know enough about Logic to give you step by step instructions, but I imagine that you should be able to find a clear guide on RUclips because your use case is very common. I'm assuming you downloaded the midi clip from the ambient arps video right?
Your remark about chords confused me quite a lot but it also made me wonder. Because when I play around on my synth (with the idea of improving) I seem to keep jumping back and forth between "sound synthesis" and "music composition" to the point that it almost becomes a "fight" between the two skills. It feels so hard to focus on one without getting dragged into the other, if you get what I mean. What would you recommend? Try to develop both skills separately, for example by sticking to piano / guitar when composing vs an arpeggio on hold when focusing on synthesis? Is that why you adviced against poly-synths?
That’s such an interesting question. This was my slightly jokey statement that “chords were cheating” or that they gave me “self-esteem issues” right? It’s a deeper topic than it sounds. Without spoiling a future video, although we nowadays think in chords, that has only been the case for a few hundred years. Originally music was thought of as being horizontal with different melodic lines intertwining. It was only later when the idea of ‘vertical chords’ was introduced. I’m obviously not opposed to polyphony - that would be a bit ridiculous! However, I do think that from a compositional point of view it can be very beneficial to work out ‘horizontal’ intertwining melodies. Let me give you an example. Suppose you have a chord progression. Start by making sure all chords have the same number of notes, let’s say four. Now map each of those four notes to a different sound - for example, have the lowest note played by a bass, the top note played by a string, maybe a bell for the second highest, maybe an organ for the second lowest (whatever, those are just examples). Probably pitch the lowest note down an octave. Now listen to each of the individual parts and try to hear it as its own melody. Now re-record it as though it really is its own melody, so you’re sustaining repeating notes, perhaps adding extra rhythm, and so on. This is a very useful compositional exercise. Make sense?
Your two oscillators should also have both of their L's. 😉 My first hardware synth was, in fact, the Minibrute 2S. Yes! The one without the keyboard. 😁 My second was a Novation Bass Station II and I totally love that thing.
Oh good grief - so embarrassing! Those are both fantastic synths. The Novation is of course great, but I also love pretty much all Arturia synths and the MiniBrute 2s is just amazing! I don’t think it’s for beginners (maybe I’m wrong?) but once people have figured out what they’re doing it’s a wonderful playground! Thanks for your comment. I really appreciate it…
This is absolutely on my list! I seem to be spending all my time making RUclips videos at the moment, but when I get back to, y’know, working and producing… 😂
@@DistortThePreamp It does incredible harmonically rich bass , the filter is the incredible and capable of outstandingly fast switching for Techno. The Bespoke chip design was also overseen by the guy Rob Keeble (AMS Synths).
You could say that this is a magical time to get into synths, because there are so many good options at amazing prices. I get what you are saying about a keyboard, but that does introduce the necessity to have other things around, and that's going to create some friction with regards to just making sounds. The Odyssey synths for this reason make an obvious option that fulfill many of your other objectives. Uli's new Roland SH-5 copy does as well. Oh I would also say that none of these synths have even decent midi. Most of them don't even implement the mod wheel. Proper midi would include significant CC support at the very least. I do get your cost factor, and resellability, but I wouldn't make such a big deal about these. Spending sub $1500 isn't a big deal for a musical instrument. A good student clarinet is going to cost you that much. This would open people up to things like the Sequential Take Five, TEO, Behringer's Uliheim, etc. These would all make great first synths. And it is really nice to be able to have patch memory, photos are a silly way to store patches. Tom gave us this ability back it 1978. We don't use a dial phones, and for the same reason modern synths should implement patch memory. It is truly unfortunate that the industry has moved away from multi-timbral synths. For plugins sure it makes sense, because routing is weird with a multi-timbral plugin for many DAWs, but in hardware it's just another midi channel. The early multi T synths (Sequential Six Trak) would let you have six mono synths, and this was a fantastic way to learn about orchestration. Nice video, thanks for your effort!!!
Thanks for this very thoughtful comment. Really I agree with everything you’ve said. I’m aware that for some people budget is a huge issue and so I feel a little uncomfortable recommending people spend more than the minimum, especially because I’m such a huge fan of ‘value’ instruments. But if people have the money and the space then (a) I would always get a keyboard, and (b) there are som many amazing synths to choose from. Not to keep banging on about Behringer but their UB-Xa is astonishing. I mean it has *poly aftertouch!!!!* Thank you so much for watching and for taking the time to comment. Very much appreciated :)
through a series of moderate trades and a little bargaining I ended up getting a full Deepmind 12 for about $100 out of my pocket, I feel like it covers a lot of basses but something still feels missing and I can't quite put my finger on it. Next i'm onto my first drum machine to go with it.
Right! I honestly cannot recommend that synth highly enough. I almost sent mine back when I got it and it took me a while, but it’s well worth the time. You probably know the story - how Behringer’s Manchester synths team were working in a Juno clone but kept adding more features. So the first thing I would suggest is to ‘hobble’ your deep mind into a Juno: call up the default patch, reset the sliders, set the VCA and VCF velocity controls to zero, make sure the fx are bypassed (which btw bypasses that digital converters so it’s now a true analog signal path), and click all three envelope buttons so you, effectively only have one envelope. Then learn to make the utility synth patches. However, my experience is that not only do you learn to *love* the extra functionality, but I now even love some of the fx! But, just to emphasise, the extra functionality includes oscillator sync, pitch control etc over the second ‘oscillator’, a mental mod matrix, full midi cc over every parameter… it’s an amazing synth that just wasn’t terribly commercially successful. Also, don’t worry about the inbuilt patches being a bit ‘dreadful’ - that’s an occupational hazard of pretty much all synths. House patches are meant to show off the synth and sound as gaudy as possible. They rarely work well in a mix. Final tip: to get the Juno chorus sound, use the ‘Chorus’ effect (not Dim D or whatever they call it), put it in Send mode, and change the mod speed to 0.4. That sounds pretty close to me, and easily close enough for a mix. I could go on, but I fear my gushing would bore you 😂 If anything I’ve said above doesn’t make sense, let me know and I’ll make 3 min private video.
@@DistortThePreamp normally when I get a synth the first thing I do is blank out all the patches, but the cat I bought it from had a really cool aftermarket pack loaded. There's a way to get it to more in-line with the juno-60 over the 106 as well, but I absolutely understand what you mean. But yeah it can sound absolutely amazing for ambient type music and some other genres For my own sound design so far I feel like I get more prophet-5 sounding patches then Juno patches though that just might be me. I also found a great video on converting it to a sort of pseudo additive synth with using the well done filter calibration and the KBD tracking. I would say where i've been least impressed has been with low-end bassy type sounds, I've been able to get it to "servicable" but nothing great so I'm considering something to fill in that end. Hence how I ended up here :D
Ah - well this video is really about ‘performing ratter than programming’ synth bass, so it’s a production technique rather than sound selection. To get the biggest bass out of the DM12 I would definitely use the Bass Boost button (which mimics one of the Juno’s sonic characteristics) but if at the end of the day it’s Prophet bass you’re looking for, you could of course consider selling the DM12 and buying the Pro-800, unless you need a keybed? You could probably do that trade at a profit. I don’t generally use the DM for bass, although to be fair I didn’t use the Juno for bass either back in the day, or even the Prophet. Apart from some FM bass I’ve always used mono synths. I’m not sure there’s a sonic reason - probably just that I didn’t want to tie up a poly with a mono bass line (even though sometimes you want the bass notes to ring slightly).
@@DistortThePreamp yeah that's what im saying, i'm trying to figure out a good mono to pair with it. I have a microfreak i've had for about a year now and it just doesn't do it either haha. I'll find the right one eventually though :D
For mono synths I would suggest either the Model D or Pro-1. They’re both amazing, but maybe the Model D? Have you seen my Ambient Arps video? That showcases both pretty well (as does the Plucks video)…
As a B hater (i dont hate the owners and just feel sorry for the lovers) for ethical reasons but i have to say, this channel is really well made and interesting imo, and primarily because it's about techniques ratrher than gear; no snobbism here and i like that.... My first hw synth was in 2006 and i got me a brand new lately released Roland SH_201 witch was great for leaning (the users manual is a must have if you are learning substractive synth, okay, in that case you'd go for the model d 's um...), it was 600 euros when released witch is over your price range but i got it brand new from the shop. this was not analog but not mono, it had layers, a great synth for learning...
That's really kind, and an interesting comment. I'm absolutely trying to make this channel about actual production techniques used live in the wild, rather than sweeping filters on the latest synth. The Roland SH-201 must have been fun. For me controls are pretty critical, and I don't care so much about whether the oscillators are analog or modelled. The reason I don't use soft synths at the moment is only that I like dedicated controllers with zero latency. I wouldn't have a problem with using, for example, the Roland JX-08 Boutique in a production (despite what Espen Kraft says). Having said all of that, for space reasons I need everything to be racked up so no large synths for me unless/until I get a bigger studio. Really appreciate you watching, and taking the time to comment.
@@DistortThePreamp yup! i'm in, and as for now your channel isnt big yet, it's cool to have you responding and to be able to chat. in 2006, getting an analog synth, even va was still pretty expensive. I thing there are greart digital generator and great analog ones aswell, they participate intoo having a broader palett of sounds, so imo the debate about analog vs digital is not that intersting, that being said, i started with computers (amigas lol, in 98, great breakbeat live sessions in the free party scene of the south of france, so it worked, and that why i'm not a big fan of snobbism in audio), but when i was able, i got my me an mpc and then forgot about virtual computer stuff... I design and build audio gear for a (modest) living (lately worked a lot for the dub sound system scene for fx and processors). I have mooved in a bigger place lately and i will be working on a new channel ("voodoo'in audio" i think i'll name, it) and now i'm gonna have more time for making nice vids aswell, i'm planning a series on delay techniques (based on craig anderton's tremendous book on the topic). What i find inspiring in your way of doing this is it soesnt get boaring like often they get when guys share theyre techniques, it stays intertaining, i'm not a big fan of those 3 hour vids on an ableton screen, and i'm a hardware gueezer myself. All the best man, maybe later if i get that channel going we could try some cool things and experiments, i, as an electronician am planning to make easy and afordable tools for studio, mounted or in diy mode (like the tape head tranceiver to put in an echoes feedback or to give a tape style treatment), and i'm hoping i'll be able to find a few youtubers i could send some things to for them to experiment.... So please, just in case, remember that channel name, my next comment might be in that name.... and just in case you have a minute you can check myt channel to see what kind of gear i have been working on these last years....
I’ve looked at your channel and the stuff you’re building looks very interesting. I also looked up Craig Anderton’s book which I wasn’t aware of - I found a PDF and it’s sooo interesting. It’s very hard work making these videos not boring, so I’m very thankful that people like you enjoy them…
@@DistortThePreamp yeah that book is tremendous... thanks man. i was shure you'de love that book, the way you talk about your topics exploring tecniques with synths, it's the same type of approach.
26m38s: I had no idea just how important those little white lines are to synth programming....I feel like I understand eighties music so much better now!
Haha. I know it sounds like a joke, but I guess the point is that back then we all filled out patch sheets by hand whereas now we all take photos. So the little white lines are important 😂 God only knows how anyone would call up a Minimoog patch on a dimly lit stage though - i find the original buttons hard to read in a studio!
Do you mean that you want a 303 or should you get a Behringer clone? Is that’s what you’re asking, then the answer is get the clone! Not only does it sound the same, it’s got midi ;)
Ah, that is the rack version of the Behringer DeepMind 12 which different knobs so I can read it more easily. It doesn’t get a lot of love, but I think it’s amazing. It took me a while to fall in love with it and I even sent it back once, but once you’ve figured it out it’s amazing. Like a Juno with *a lot* of extra features.
Thank you for watching! I really do like the DeepMind 12. And because almost nobody else does they’re ridiculously cheap. Like you can pick one up for £389 which is bonkers. You do have to spend time with it though, but it’s one of my favourite synths to programme. I was doing some mental stuff this afternoon preparing for a video about synth pads, and I set the third envelope to loop so it was like an LFO, and then made the ADSR curved.
Not looking at the control is the way to go in many fields. You should drive a car without looking at the pedals and gear shifter. You should enter text in your computer without looking at the keyboard. You should play guitar without looking at your guitar neck or fingers. You should play piano/synth without looking at your fingers. You should know how to get a specific sound on your synth without relying on presets. Yeah, shoulda, I only can do it with cars if you covered everything with a cloth, so I can’t see any below the neck.
You said "with a very heavy heart" - Does this mean that despite the fact that you are recommending the pro-1, you just love the model-d a little more?
Well almost. If not more then at least as much. The Pro-1 is definitely a better utility synth. But sometimes when I need that ‘weight’ only the Model D will do. And I do often find myself reaching for it just because I enjoy playing it so much.
@@DistortThePreampThanks for the input. That makes sense. After weighing the features you mentioned, the pro 1 is next on my wishlist now! I really appreciate the time and effort you are putting into your videos. This has quickly become my favorite music production channel!
That’s incredibly kind and amazing to hear. Do you mind if I ask whether you have any other synths? The reason is that I wouldn’t necessarily recommend the Pro-1 as a follow-up synth. I mean I might, but it would depend what (if anything) you had already.
I am a guitarist and so I have only just recently become interested in synths.. I currently only have a volca drum and a volca fm2. I am looking for an analog synth for bass lines and leads.. and want to expand my horizons beyond the volcas (even though I do love the ones I currently own)
Oh then def the Pro-1! You wouldn’t know it from this channel, but I’m primarily a guitarist too. I didn’t want to start ‘yet another guitar channel’ but I will definitely be branching out into guitar with an emphasis on production tricks and sound design rather than playing. Orr that’s what I’m planning anyway :)
Will do! I use the Neutron a lot and it’s a bit difficult to know where to start! It’s really quite deep, especially when you wire it in to other systems. I was going to do a video where I showed how to make the Vox Humana patch using the Neutron but borrowing two LFOs and attenuators from other synths. The patch sounded *amazing*! However I sort of concluded that vox humana had ‘been done’ on RUclips and people wouldn’t find it interesting. Do you agree? Let me know if you have any topics you’d particularly like me to cover on the Neutron! Really appreciate you watching, and the comment :)
@@DistortThePreamp Awesome. For me the most confusing part nowadays is the internal ("invisible") routing that I just keep forgetting after a month or two of not touching my Neutron..lol, its like a constant source of wonder for me. (like: ASSIGN->ATT1 CV and both attenuators when unpatched..). That being said, I plan to keep it as a cheap but feature packed Eurorack utility module (LFOs, ATTs, slew, sum, etc. - thats unbeatable).. :)
I completely agree. I can never remember which envelope is which! I got one of those overlays but then never got round to putting it on. The thing that surprises me most about the Neutron is how much I like its overdrive and delay. When I first got it I rolled my eyes and patched around them. Now I see the overdrive as a critical piece of tone shaping, and the delay sounds very nice without being overly prominent. And I totally agree that it’s an unbeatable feature set at the price!
@@CB-ul2np I think the Pro-800 is amazing. But my recommendation is still to learn on a mono with no ability to save patches, and then once you’ve completely learned everything then trade up to the Pro-800. I know that sounds crazy, but I honestly think that the ability to save patches makes it harder to learn because the knob positions don’t reflect the sound you’re hearing.
Yup. Don’t get me started. It’s horrific. One of the things that really made me hate plugins was when I upgraded my computer and about $1,000 of plugins from a specific manufacturer stopped working unless I did a paid upgrade or took a subscription. This really upset me.
I thought the "Bored Yet?" sign on your mic was a joke at first, but it turned out to be very helpful. As soon as I could answer "yes", I turned off the video. Thanks for the warning.
@@DistortThePreamp I remember when the Behringer model D came out, many people were returning it because of „tuning issues“. Your video about layering basses was such a revelation in that regard! I would love it if you also talked about drums in the future, especially gated snare and the influence of compression in 80s music in general! I sometimes think a lot of production techniques were lost over the years. I absolutely love the way you present things and that you’re so „hands on“ with affordable synths and drum machines! Please keep doing what you do!!!
@@ARP_2600 I didn’t know that people were returning the Model D because of tuning issues. That’s hilarious! It definitely takes at least 10 minutes to warm up, and even then it drifts! I will 100% be covering drums and drum compression in the future. There is such a long production list… thanks for watching and for commenting :)
I don't like to complain but I would like to inform you that I simply can not listen to your probably interesting advise because of the constant popping noise when you speak. It generates an unpleasant pressure feeling inside my ears.
I am so sorry about this! The channel is very new and I did not have the audio sorted out on these early videos. I believe the problem has now been fixed. Would you mind checking the latest video -- is the audio okay there? I really appreciate this comment btw.
If you were to buy one and only one synth, and had the space, I would consider the Behringer UB-Xa (currently £999). On the face of it it’s a very good clone of the Oberheim classic with some very nice twists. It’s a genuine analog poly with 16 voices, it’s bi-timbral so you can use it to play two different sounds at the same time (for example, you could split the keyboard), but here’s the truly amazing thing: it’s has polyphonic aftertouch. This means that you can play a chord and then just choose to bring out one of the notes by pressing. This alone makes it an extraordinary piece of equipment. Poly aftertouch is absolutely critical to get close to the kind of moody atmospheric music that, say, Vangelis made for Bladrunner and although he used a CS-80, the reason he chose that synth was not really the sound of the oscillators (although they’re great) it was the way he could isolate and manipulate the sound of a single note from within a chord. I really rave about this synth. I would take it any day over the original Oberheim even if the Oberheim were cheaper (and it’s nowhere near cheaper). So if you get that you’ve still got a grand left over to get a lava lamp and a load of chocolate.
I like the Oberheim. I *love* the Polybrute, but I find it has a bit of a 'sound' so it isn't quite as flexible. Also, unfortunately, it might be a bit harder to sell (if you ever need to). All great choices though :)
It is possible to activate retrigger mode in model d.
1: by activating in the synthtribe app or
2:if you turning on the synth, (first 5 seconds), turn the a440 switch on and off. This activates the multitrigger mode
See user manual page 13, 4.9
Oh wow! That’s a great tip and I had no idea! That would probably have saved me a lot of time…
thank you!!
I as a linux-user could set this by using the system-exclusive-command (Manual page 40/41). The thing with the A440-switch did not work on my Model-D.
Could it be, have I just found my new favorite synth-related youtube channel?
I love how you dare to take a clear stand/opinion even if it's possibly a "controversial" one. Because you also back it up with very understandable arguments. Unlike so many others, you're not trying to make yourself popular by telling aspiring synth-players what they might want to hear, you tell them what (you think) they need to hear. And I don't know your background story but you clearly know what you're talking about. Keep up the good work! (and please take your time to maintain that level of quality)
That’s a very kind thing to say. Maintaining the quality is why the videos take so long to get out. In an ideal world I would be putting out one or two a week. But it’s just impossible because I’m trying to make content that is not only instructive to musicians and producers but also entertaining to non-musician fans. Even small things like referring to a ‘bass guitar’ rather than a ‘bass’ makes a difference. So I *really appreciate* comments like yours :)
His mind reading is a bit off, but that's ok. I'm not musician or producer, just a big fan of synth sounds (DM, E, PSB variety). :) Anyway, a great channel for all of us. Oh my, haven't heard the term WYSIWYG since the 80's. heh
I studied subtractive synthesis in college back in the 80s and have played tons of analog synths, and in my opinion, the advice in this video is 100% spot on. Great advice!
I’m so glad you said that! You’d be surprised how controversial this was. Or maybe you wouldn’t 😂 For example somebody suggested that subtractive synthesis was old fashioned and we should all learn FM. Whilst I totally respect anyone who comments, I definitely find myself very politely disagreeing. I programme FM from scratch and it is not the first thing to learn 😂
The workaround to the limited Volca feature set is to buy 5 Volcas…but then you feel silly for not buying 2 very good $300 synths or one fantastic $600 synth!
I had this conversation with myself two nights ago on this very subject and you helped me clarify my "First Synth" speech. Thank you. FYI my first synth was the "day one" Minibrute and I learned so much and I fell in love with Arturia. Now I have too much gear. One last Honorable Mention; I took an online synthesis course with Ear Training that propulsed my understanding stratospherically - Syntorial. I learned to dissects sounds from recorded music so I could understand and reproduce patches. I gifted a Syntorial subscription to a few of my friends. I do not work for Syntorial. Cheers m8.
I know that Syntorial course and it’s great. I also love the Minibrute! It’s a really great synth and a lot of fun to play and programme.
Random comment: Thanks for your videos. They are definitely in my wheelhouse: I'm 55 yr old, just getting into synths, big fan of the 80s music I grew up with, and a deep diver (maybe ADHD?). You are traveling down the right road, friend. Are you going to get 5 million subs? Probably not, but for the people who have subscribed so far, you're preaching and teaching. Keep it up!!! (Oh, and you've most definitely pushed me into adding a Poly D to my small group of synths with my Uno Synth Pro and Yamaha TG-33!)
OMG you have a Yamaha TG-33? You know that a certain famous synthpop duo used that for strings over the Emulator and their programmer was sworn to secrecy, right? I've been meaning to get one for ages! Really appreciate you watching and your comments, as ever :) Watch this space for more 80s programming builds and stories. Apologies in advance if not all videos are about synthpop but I promise they'll all be entertaining!
"I'm 55 yr old, just getting into synths, big fan of the 80s music I grew up with, and a deep diver (maybe ADHD?)”
You just described me.
Seems like this is becoming THE go to channel for synth loving grandpas... yours truly. :D
@@abandonedbrain I guess that us 50+ year olds with ADHD all heard the calling of the 80s and bought into the synth culture of the best musical era.
60 here, adult ADHD (in a good way - but it causes too much GAS!). Wanted to go back to the fundamentals of leaning subtractive synthesis from the ground up and I think I’ve found my new home. ;-)
Great video mate! Looks like i chose well - ive been making music as a hobby for around 25 years, but after hearing great things about Behringer analogue synths, looked at my options, took the plunge and bought a Pro one and a Neutron about 2 years ago. Boy! I can get lost for hours just patching and twisting knobs! - Amazing sounds for the price. Theres no way i'm ever buying a Moog or a Buchla, as i dont have that kind of money, but these behringer machines are incredible. I have all the analogue i need with these two and i can learn and slowly incorporate things into my productions. The Neutron is a bit more challenging, but i'll get there!
Absolutely. Incredible value. Stick with it!
Thank you so much! I’ve been debating this for so long now and finally started narrowing the options down a couple days ago to actually these two. I saw ur video on how to make soft arps with both and couldn’t decide. But i’m glad i have one more video as my deciding factor. Awesome channel!
Oh amazing! Honestly whichever you get I would be surprised if you had buyer’s remorse - they’re both pretty amazing. Plus, assuming you buy second hand having researched the right price, you could always sell it if it doesn’t work out. Goes without saying that you can’t do that with plugins.
I totally agree. These two synths are outstanding for the price. Easy to learn, easy to use, and 100% authentic. The best is is, both behringers are usable in a modern and classic context.
That’s how I feel too! They do everything from 70s electronics to ultra modern. So great…
You're the absolute best.
I am primarily a bass / guitar player and I've been asking myself pretty much exactly all the questions you've been answering in this video.
I know I said it before, but man, I love your channel!
That’s so great! Since you’re a bass player you will hopefully appreciate the next video which, although it’s Part 2 of a series about synth bass, features an analysis of a famous real bass player… :)
@@DistortThePreamp I already absolutely loved the first part!
@@DistortThePreamp can’t wait 😁🤩
Just wanted to leave a quick "Thank you for making this video". At the end you expressed your fear that you might have lost your viewers, but at least me you did not. I actually never thought about buying a hardware synth at all until 30 minutes ago, but this has now changed, thanks to your way of explaining it.
Oh that’s such a fantastic thing to say! And I can also say that, now that a few people have bought the Pro-1 based in this video, I don’t regret the conclusion. Hardware synths aren’t necessary, but they are a lot of fun.
@@DistortThePreamp I am now intrigued by hardware synths because of the insight that only with a comparably simple, yet powerful and good sounding hardware device I would be able to learn something. "No presets!" - Surprising argument at first, but then, after I thought about it, quite convincing. I can absolutely confirm that the thousands of presets plugins usually offer actually prevented me to dive deeper into learning features of at least one plugin, and as a consequence, I did not learn how to create own sounds.
Yes. This is kind of counterintuitive, but it’s really true. The most important thing with any piece of gear but especially a synth is to learn it thoroughly. Once you’re a master than obviously presets are fantastic. But while one is a novice I think they impede learning…
I took your word for it and bought a used Pro-1. It’s fantastic. My last synth I didn’t get on with so well (DSI Mopho) because I couldn’t see the whole patch at once and I didn’t know what to do with all the presets. This knob per function, no preset Pro-1 sounds great and is inspiring. Thank you 👍
That’s so amazing! I know it sounds crazy to avoid a synth with presets, but the advantage you get by seeing the whole patch at once is profound! Feel free to hit me up with any questions :) I’ve spent the whole day editing the next video (which is about forgotten synth bass production techniques from the 80s) and I think I’m gonna have to do it all again tomorrow. Oh well. Turns out making videos is a lot like making records - if the take isn’t good enough you can’t fix it in post. Really appreciate you watching, and the massive vote of confidence in getting the Pro-1, and of course the comment.
@@DistortThePreamp okay I do have a question. If you made some music and wanted to perform it live, would you leave you Pro-1 etc. in its studio rack and perform with phrase sampling / Ableton Live etc. Or would you bring synths and sequencer with you to the gig? So basically how would you perform live?
That’s a very interesting question. It rather depends on the situation, but here are some general rules.
- Expected to re-work everything for live. At the minimum you’ll want to re-mix into four basic stereo stems, but it’s not uncommon to entirely re-programme everything just to make it work live.
- in a live set I would typically consider standardising some of the fundamental elements like kick. It’s hard enough to get a good front of house sound, without the engineer finding that the kick’s change again afiter they’d got it sounding good
- you need to think about what playing live means for you. Does it mean playing a part in a keyboard? Or does it mean twisting knobs while the sequencer plays the part? This question is going to be very important when you re-build as a live set.
- hardware is terrible in the road. If you take a real analog synth out, you will need a plan B in case something goes wrong. Very few of the big bands use genuine hardware live any more - they just break down all the time.
Speaking personally, I would use Ableton, with a carefully built live set and controller keyboards running Apple Main Stage to control synths, keyboard splits, etc etc etc. Apple Main Stage is absolutely excellent, especially its ability to manage set lists, etc.
I’m not playing live at the moment, but I would no longer take racks of gear out. That’s what I used to do, and it was a huge headache. It means you have to do a lot of work in preparing a live show, but something like Ableton and Main Stage are, IMO, the way to go.
My live electronica is hardware based but quite simple . Run from an mpc, and a boss 880 drum machine alternating songs; where all drums and most basslines are sequenced and running a synth each via midi. All pads and top lines are played live on a ms2000 and a blofeld, an odyssey and a kaosalator pro. Everything has its own mutable channel on an analog desk, just a behringer, and sends go to analog delay and an eventide eclipse.
I haven't toured this setup but it wouldn't be hard to make resilient.
Nothing is ever the same twice but its fun making live acid by the seat of yr pants. I sometimes fail.
That's hilarious! I bought a couple of the Korg volcas I really enjoyed them and I still do for their portability. There's really nothing like having something in my hand and just playing it outside where I feel more inspired. And not to say that I've learned everything that I can from them. I do feel like I want to move on. Then I bought the behringer pro 1 on eBay. After everything said and done I spent about $225 for it. I've been watching your videos for the past few days. I can't wait to get this in my hands and start learning. It's been quite a rabbit hole for me trying to figure out which One to buy for my first true synth. Thank you very much for all your hard work and your videos liked and subscribed! Can't wait for more videos thank you
Oh that is hilarious! I think you’ll really like the Pro-1. It does a lot and when you’ve mastered all of its secrets you’ve pretty much mastered subtractive synthesis. The very first video I ever posted to this channel was pretty terrible in terms of quality but showed how to get Daft Punk sync sounds on it. At some stage I’ll remake that video but in the meantime the content is okay even if it leaves pretty much everything else to be desired. Let me know how you get on!
@DistortThePreamp it was the longest week ever! But it finally came yesterday! Yes, I'm hooked as I knew I would be hahaha. I don't have a proper MIDI controller so I'm just using the Korg volca fm2 as a controller it's pretty sweet so far
That’s really great! Have you rigged it up to a DAW for sequencing? One nice thing to do is to set a sequence running and the tweak the knobs on the Pro-1 to change the sound in real time, while recording the audio. All very difference to recording automation data.
@@DistortThePreamp I haven't done that yet. I've just been playing around with it without my daw for right now. The first thing I need to get is an audio interface. But right now it sounds really cool and it's a lot of fun to play with! My daughter is going crazy with it hahah. She loves pressing all the buttons and turning all the knobs, which is actually why I started getting involved with synthesizers in the first place 😂
I guessed correctly from the first 20 seconds which one it would be. I will be getting my Behringer Pro One tomorrow at a cost including VAT & Delivery in the UK for £159.00. I looked for used but at that price it is a no brainer. I agree with you 100% about the reasons to buy. The fact that the mono synth can be poly chained to other Behringers like the Neutron, Model D or more Pro Ones makes this a great way to build a super synth when budget permits. Great channel by the way. Subbed.
Oh brilliant! FWIW I have three of the monos - the Pro-1, the Model D, and the Neutron - and although I was really interested in the idea of polychaining before I had them it turns out I’m
far more interested in inter-patching. Routinely I patch between them on the front. For example, I might ‘borrow’ and LFO from the Model D and patch it into the Neutron etc. it’s completely cured me of any modular interest too ;)
@@DistortThePreamp That would make a great video.
@ Yes! I made a demo of a video a few months ago about how to make the famous Vox Humana patch using exactly those techniques. You need two oscillators but three LFOs, so I rigged it up on the Neutron borrowing the extra LFOs from the Model D and the Pro-1. It sounded amazing but while I was making it Alex Ball and Starsky made their Vox Humana videos and I ended up concluding the idea had been done, and maybe it was too niche anyway. But I might revisit it.
Model D and pro 1 was in a store basket for a long time, seeing your ambient arp, the model d sounded heavenly, so it's my next synth purchase. Thanks for the videos, very educational, I bet people watch your videos without being into synths...
That’s very kind! And I really hope so! My goal is to make stuff that’s entertaining rather than just for musicians. It’s tricky, but that’s the goal…
@DistortThePreamp I ordered the new proton for now, since discovering new things it's in our human nature...
thanks so much for making this video, i have the model d and pro one,. model d always sounds great to me the filter is amazing...... the pro one is more flexable but the filter resonance is not as pleasing to my ears. its harder to dial the pro one into sweet spots for my taste. Runing the pro one mix out into the audio input on moog filter is epic . sounds soo phat.
That’s a really good trick. I was literally doing this today for a weird reason - I’m making a video about bandpassed noise (all will be explained) and I wanted to see if I could use low passes noise on the Pro-1 and then run into the Model D with the filter in high pass mode. It all worked but it was pretty tricky to rig up key tracking on the cutoffs. I was using CV with stacking cables and it didn’t really work 😂I’m so glad you liked this video - it doesn’t get as much love as the others but it’s definitely an authentic presentation of how I feel. So thanks for watching. amd for commenting!
@@DistortThePreamp i love the moog mix out into the filter in 303 (if your select half way betten square and saw osc it turns off the interal 303 osc sound) i find it too hard to program the 303 so i play it on keys . only issue is theres no filter pitch trach)
your noise experment sounds like its getting into eurorack land hehe I cant handle any thing more complex than an ms 20 im scare off all those patch cables
. what ever your doing keep doing it . more people will come to watch and relax
Hahaha! Actually the noise solo is just noise through a band pass with keyboard tracking and a four note sequence to change the filter every bar on a four bar loop! There’s honestly zero complicated routing! All of the ‘game’ is playing the Drawmer gate controls like an instrument - so throwing it in and out of bypass, changing the hold, range etc. Super easy, but a very cool sound!
It would be nice to have a video where you show starting point to make the basic sounds you mention: utility sounds, crystal leads (?), pluck, Italian bass (?), PWM bass, drone, theramin (?)...
Yes - totally agree. This was my intention. Really trying to sort out my video making process…
@@DistortThePreamp This video is actually fine and I decided to complement my Neutron with a Pro-1. ;-) However, it would be nice to have another overview video of basic/classic presets as starting points for these hardware synths.
My first synth with a keyboard was the Roland JP-08. After learning synthesis, I was able to get sounds I sesrched for really quickly.
The limited edition boutique version of the Jupiter? Oh that’s such an interesting module. I always meant to get one but never for round to it and I wasn’t sure where I’d put it in my setup. So you got it with the mini keyboard? That sounds so awesome. Did you find the small sliders a problem? I’m guessing not…
@@DistortThePreamp Yes the boutique edition 😉. The small sliders are ok, but you sometimes have to adjust very little and carefully to find the sweet spot 🙈. The mod ribbons on the left side are the parts of the module that react poorly and hardly allow fine controlled modulations. 😊
Well, try not to laugh, but my first and last one was a Casio CZ-101 which I still have an bang on once in while. lol
My first synth was a JU-06a and I love it. It's an affordable Juno in a tiny box with usb! The JX-08 beats it in almost every category, but the JU-06A visual design is amazing.
Have to give a shoutout for the Neutron too. It's a great way to learn synthesis with the semi-modular architecture.
That’s a fabulous synth. As many people have commented, although it’s technically limited the sweet spot is very wide. Is the form factor okay? I’ve tried one once and I reckon I could throw up sounds on it despite the tiny sliders… they’re 20mm right? I actually really love all those boutiques. The only thing that I would find a little annoying is the stereo mini-jack output. I would have preferred full size jacks that are less likely to break. But I understand why they had to keep the sockets small. Also I guess I would just fit a permanent adaptor and tape it to the box so the minijack would never come under strain. And I *really* approve of the full size midi ports. Incidentally, I don’t know how much experience you’ve got of playing the ‘real thing’ but ignore people who go on about how the boutiques don’t sound exactly the same. It doesn’t matter. Playing matters.
As you started to enumerate all the features a first synth should have, the Arturia Minibrute was at the forefront of my suggestions. Then you dropped the two oscillator bombshell :-D The other downside to the Minibrute is the horrible rubber coating they used on the controls and side panels, as it turns to a sticky goo after a few years exposure to sunlight. My solution was to replace all the knobs with aluminium ones, all the slider caps with uncoated ones and the side panels with wooden ones. Downside to that is I probably spent the same again on those parts as I did for the second hand Minibrute itself, but then again I love the little beastie so much that I doubt I'll ever sell it.
One trick that I use a lot with model D is to patch over 2.5volts DC current to lc gate to make it drone (it stays in the sustain phase). When you input a midi note the filter envelope is still triggered to adjust the sound timbre. To me that makes playing solos much more comfortable as I dont have to keep keys pressed to sustain a sound
Oh, that's a really interesting trick!
"But can it do pulse width modulation?" (C)
A reasonable advice, however I think learning synths by using a classic "2+ detuned oscillators into a filter" architecture is a bit outdated. Therefore I think the best learning synth is a Microfreak. For exactly that approach that I totally agree with - "take your existing project and make the synth one of the parts". But what one should learn is oscillator(s)-filter dynamic. The oscillators detuning is a much lower level detail. You don't have that detuned pair in some wavetable synths but they are still capable. Zebralette has only one oscillator but it's a monster.
And if money isn't an issue the ideal learning synth is Korg Opsix.
I think this is quite an interesting idea. I think I’m still inclined to teach subtractive first, but that’s not to say I’m correct - waveyable synths are very interesting and, of course, *all over* iconic 80s recordings in the form of the PPG. You also make an interesting point about the Opsix. I love programming FM but, again, in my experience, people struggle to get their heads around the concepts. Having said that one of the wonderful things about FM is that it’s easy to get sounds that don’t particularly sound like anything you’ve heard before. Really appreciate you watching and taking the time to comment :)
@@DistortThePreamp well, Opsix isn't necessarily about FM, it's just one of its capabilities. I recently started to make a patch of synthetic percussion on it for one of my projects, made some nice sounds using noise into resonant filter but didn't use FM because I just didn't need it so far (but probably will use it for some hihat-like sounds). It's what I like about Opsix - it's a set of simple tools - filter, oscillator, FM, ring mod, filter FM - that are put into some structure making a more complex whole but it's up to you to decide what that structure is. You can just have 6 oscillators sounding in parallel, or three pairs of oscillator + filter, or filter output modulating another filter's frequency, some very classic architectures or some experimental ones. I think it's good for learning because it makes one pay attention to the architecture of audio signal path. Maybe a perfect hardware for learning would be a modular setup with small amount of very simple modules... but I guess that wouldn't be very affordable.
I’ve always thought that the ARP 2600 is the perfect learning synth. Probably in its original large scale format. I think it might even have been used as a teaching synth…
@@DistortThePreamp the 2600 is the best learning synth fitting your constraints. Except the price, about 500 € in the Behringer version.
As far as I recall, it was designed with teaching in mind, but I have to look it up to confirm my statement.
It really is the best mono in my opinion and I’m sure (again, without looking it up which as we all know is cheating) that it was conceived as a teaching synth. If somebody has (a) the budget, (b) the desk space, and (c) was prepared to put in proper time, then this is surely the perfect synth to learn on. I’m still trying to figure out what the best synth to learn additive would be… it’s a much harder thing to teach I think because the timbres are less intuitive…
fun video and yeh behringer range of synths sound great, affordable and well knobbed!
So true about Behringer synths. We're living in a golden age of affordable instruments.
Great video - lots of great information from experience. Very much appreciated. The logical question, then, is: when are you going to make videos on learning subtractive synthesis using the Behringer Pro-1? I, for one, would be more than happy to follow along.
Enjoying your videos 🙏🏼 appreciate you putting this together for us, super helpful, gonna take your advice and get one.
i currently have 7 synths, ive bought and sold about the same previously as either they didnt sit right with me or UI wasnt what i wanted. I always buy second hand to avoid taking a hit, you rarely get chance to get "hands on" with a synth before you buy so this has worked for me.
Yeah, I totally agree. I never buy new, and I re-sell about half within a few months. Over the last year I’ve stopped buying at all because for some reason my rig seems to have ‘settled down’. I’m not sure how long this will last, but this happened with guitar pedals too - I went through about twenty years of constantly trying and eventually converged on what for me seems to be a perfect setup. I suppose what I’ve done is created a bit of friction in that buying a new pedal or synth would pretty much mean getting rid of an existing one because I have a fixed size for my racking and pedalboard. So as I’m writing this I’m realising that that might actually be a key thing - get to the stage where you can operate a ‘one in one out’ policy with gear and mysteriously you eventually stop buying gear. It’s a total GAS cure.
@@DistortThePreamp i may have reached that stage also. Im tempted by Erica Synth DRM but im hoping the anthology library on Uno Drum will keep me occupied for a while.
real interesting video, I wish I had found a guide like this a few years ago. I'm new to learning music in general, but I'm always interested in learning new things.
A couple of years back, not knowing what to buy, what to do, who to ask, or what the hell I was doing, I just purchased a couple of items and hoped for the best. The items I bought were the MS-1 and a Deepmind 12. However the Deepmind almost put me off learning! I decided to box it back up, to solely concentrated ton the Monosynth MS-1, which was probably the best thing I could have done, as it was a way simpler way of learning, I simply love its ease of use and transparency. This year I decided to delve back in with something new, still afraid of the Deeepmind 12 but still wanting to learn, I purchased the Pro-800, and between this and theMS-1, I feel like I'm starting to learn! these two together seem great. (The Deepmind will stay in the cupboard until I feel ready, great as I'm sure it is, Its a scary monster compared to those others)
This is a really interesting story. I absolutely agree that a mono synth is the best way to learn. And also that the DeepMind is very uninspiring until you crack it. I love mine now, but I sent mine back before I bought it again. All the presets are horrific, but that’s true of all modern preset synths because nobody pays sound designers like they did in the old days when the presets sold the synth. Until recently I used to detest the effects on the DeepMind too. But when I started making videos for RUclips I had to figure them out because, as a matter of policy, I wasn’t using any DAW effects. And it turns out they’re really good! I would still never track (record) with the effects in, but they can be very useful when working up sketches. I would also never use them live as they would play havoc with the mix - pedals are a much better option. But, honestly, I think the DeepMind is probably the best value for money poly out there, sounds great, and is very underrated. Having said all of that, the Pro-800 is extraordinary. You obv need the firmware update that makes the envelopes faster (and, ironically, less authentic) but it’s an absolute beast of a poly.
@@DistortThePreamp certainly, interesting you bought the Deepmind again, I can see how good it is, but it’s to good and wasted on someone like me, I certainly prefer the simpler synths like the ms-1 and pro-800. I was really torn wether to get the pro-1 or the 800, wasn’t sure how different the learning curve would be, but since I already had one mono synth I thought I’d take the plunge (still not sure if that was the correct choice, but time will tell, and it wouldn’t be difficult to trade it or sell it and purchase a pro-).
The trickiest part with learning the pro-800 is not knowing/seeing where the perimeters are set (without software), which is probably the reason the ms-1 has been incredibly easy to learn, is you can always visually see the settings.
You are right with at least 2 oscillators. I hate my crave with only one. Love my poly D with 4!
Haha, yeah. I’ve never tried the crave but I always wondered if you could use it like a more flexible 303? In other words for mid-range repeating bass parts. The Poly D is, of course, fantastic.
@@DistortThePreampThe crave is great with a 2 osc modular paired with it. I pair it with my Wasp (2 osc outputs) so both synths run on 3 oscillators each on the same Midi channel. I also found a single osc was easier for me to manage. I also wanted to learn a vintage sequencer with a nightmare interface 😂
A Superb delivery of points very well made. Brilliant- and yes, for me the B pro 1 would have been the exact recommendation based on your initial criteria. It worked for me when I purchased one a few years ago bereft of knowledge beyond pre sets and 1000 gtr pedals! That said, I would love to see a desk top version of the BS 2. As you touched upon (no pun) the keys were a waste of space etc, rather like me but the pro 1 has given me so much. Thanks- top content.
I got my firsth synth in 2002. A Korg MS 2000, used, for 300 €. 49 knobs, everything is on the surface and you hear what knob does what straight away. A fantastic machine to learn subtractive snthesis and have looooots of fun doing it.
This is so informative! I learned so much. Thanks for posting this.
Oh fantastic!
Could you share a pointer to the replacement knobs you use?
I hate Behringer as a company but hard to deny that your list is spot on. That Behringer itself was spot on when they made these. I personally really like the k2 as well, where while the sound itself is a bit niche, it's an excellent synth to program. And the Neutron of course. But yeah, model D and Pro One really are just no brainers.
Behringer- the bully in the synth world.
I got the Behringer PRO-1 off of the back of this video (damaged box at reduced price from Amazon) and I'm glad I did, thanks
Oh Amazing! Obviously it’s a great synth but make sure you don’t overlook things like oscillator sync! The very first video I uploaded to this channel was shockingly bad - I had made it to remind myself how to make a sound and I just posted it to get over fear of upload. But it does, just about, show you how to make a hard sync sound. I *really apologise* for it not being at the standard, but it will at least show you the basics :)
@DistortThePreamp I got a basic bass patch going, a la Dare, and then checked and realised the firmware was well out of date. I patched it up and without changing any knobs, the sound changed but also improved, luckily 😆
Excellent video! I wish I had watched a video like this before buying my first synth...
That's very kind! What was the first synth you bought?
@@DistortThePreamp I bought my first synth in 2012. It was a Korg Monotribe. I learnt the basics, but work got in the way and didn't use it for 9 or 10 years. Then, sold it and bought the Volca Bass and Keys, which I sold a few months later. And then started making music with soft synths.
Soft synths sound so good nowadays. The reason I don’t use them (at the moment) has absolutely nothing to do with the sound quality - it’s purely a workflow thing in that I like playing physical keyboards and turning controls with both hands. Although the Arturia Lab system is pretty interesting.
And I can’t imagine ever totally giving up Serum. I still use that for the kind of sound design stuff that requires a wave table synth
@@DistortThePreamp I totally understand you. Inspired by your video I'm contemplating to buy the Behringer Model 15 (As I love Moog's Model 15 app) or the Pro-1 : )
For the little story, I still remember sitting on the college stairs with the guy who now owns Arturia and saying to me "my friend made a cool music software and I think we are going to sell it". He was really obsessed into setting up a business at the time. Cool guy (i attended his wedding) who helped me make a company later on. So yeah, buy Arturia ;) ...
Great channel, subbed straightaway. Got myself a minibrute 2 some years ago. A bit higher priced and with keyboard (which is btw much better than the one on the original minibrute). WYSIWYG, and the patch bay is great once you get the basics.
I would add a decent budget fx unit/pedal, something like a zoom ms70cdr, it really ups the experience.
I completely agree! Pedals play extremely well with synths! And all the Arturia stuff sounds fantastic!
I actually found you while I had already decided on Behringer Model D as my first synth, I definitely like the Pro-1 too though. I will probably get both at some point anyway and if I'm honest I already have two VSTs that emulate the Moog... Damn, I might go for the Pro-1 as my first one instead... You made a great case for it and since I mainly make HipHop it will for sure also have a place in my production
My ‘confession’ is that I actually bought the Model D first lol. They’re both fantastic and there is *no substitute* for dialing in a sound using your hands with knobs - you just can’t do that with a plugin. Also the Model D is always hilariously out of tune when you fire it up, and even when it’s been on drifts a little but. Plugins don’t emulate that, or the way that you tune the oscillators by ear. The Pro-1 is more of a workhorse though. Obviously you need both, plus the Wasp, Cat, Neutron, and all of them. And a barn to put them in along with a huge patchbay.
@@DistortThePreamp so much to think about lol, and yeah I already feel I NEED alot of Behringer synths lol, but I have to start somewhere... Heck... Probably the Model D and later the Pro-800 before going haywire for all :D like - I wish the Behringer DS-80 was out lol
Haha! Although, with regard to your comment about the Behringer CS-80 clone, I’ve been incredibly impressed with their UB-Xa because of its poly-aftertouch. In my view the main thing that the CS-80 had that no other synths had was its ability to control the expression of a note _after_ it had already been played through, mainly, poly aftertouch. Sure the oscillators sounded fantastic and it had lots of other features, but really it was the poly aftertouch. This is why, again IMO, I would take the Behringer UB-Xa over any genuine Oberheim at any price. I think Vangelis would love the Behringer UB-Xa…
@@DistortThePreamp actually landed on a used Behringer Pro-800 in the end, for only €380 - together with the Keystep 37 wich i already have it's a analogue 8 polyphonic synthesizer with aftertouch... Insane...
Oh that’s totally insane! And what an amazing synth the Pro-800 is! Have you installed the firmware update that makes the envelopes faster? It’s so funny that Behringer faithfully imitated the slow envelopes of the original only to have the users complain! Really the updated faster envelopes make it much more like a Prophet V in terms of its sound capabilities. I’ve banned myself from buying new gear, but the Pro-800 would be very high on my list. Possibly at the top. I always run out of polys when I’m working stuff up live, and it would be so useful. Also, they’re VCOs not DCOs but you can run a *tuning routine*, right?! And the parameters are midi addressable over cc? Just amazing. I have a rack DeepMind (which is a very underrated synth) and one of the things I do all the time is setup a long sequence playing notes and another short looping sequence sending parameter changes to, say, the VCA decay. Uli deserves some kind of medal.
i bought the Behringer Model D, because it is quite simple and sounds good with little effort. i am still waiting on it, hope it turns out as i want it to be :)
Oh fantastic! It sounds very good indeed!
Old Arturia Microbrute, hands on the best synth! Even has a keyboard and a sequencer/arpeggiator. If you gonna go down the behringer route then the Crave.
I learned on the Roland Juno-6. 😎
Sharing my experience: got into hardware synths waaaay late in life (soft synths where just too easy) but forcing myself to learn synthesis has been a 200% valuable. My first hardware synth was the Arturia MicroBrute. Sure, only one oscillator, but it was perfect to learn everything. That allowed me to graduate to getting the Pro-1, the K2 and the WASP (BTW, the WASP is ridiculously cool and unique and I recommend it any day.) I literally have ALL the big soft synths but there is nothing like doing things yourself and creating your own sounds. Priceless. Next stop for me: a hardware poly synth. :) GREAT video.
Amusingly my nickname is Wasp and I’ve never actually owned a Wasp! It’s on my list though, especially for the filter. Such a cool synth. In terms of a hardware poly, don’t rule out the DeepMind. The worst thing about it is that the keyboard doesn’t have enough octaves and all the patches are gross. However if you spend time figuring it out it’s ridiculously powerful and costs like £380. It’s essentially a souped up Juno clone (which is how it started life) but with three envelopes, a tuneable sub, two LFOs, hard sync, unison detune, a very good arpeggiator, a control sequencer (to sequence control parameters), an extensive mod matrix etc etc etc. There are also a load of digital effects which I always used to bypass but tbh nowadays I’m actually starting to use. Especially in RUclips videos where I want some delay and reverb (although I never track with the FX). Separately, if you have a higher budget the Behringer UB-Xa is a mental synth. I mean it has poly aftertouch!!?!?!?!? I must sound like I’m on commission - I’m really not! But the value is astonishing…
@@DistortThePreamp WASPs are super affordable on Reverb right now. Everything about that synth is unique. The filters, the envelopes, the oscillators, you name it. Thank you Behringer for bringing it to the masses. In terms of the poly search, I'm in need of a desktop model (no room for a keybed version). Waiting on the UBXaD and also have been eyeing the Hydrasynth. I guess there is always the Pro800...
Yeah the Pro-800 is possible. But a desktop version of the UB-Xa might be more fun. Although the (low) price of the Pro-800 is nothing short of insane.
Appreciate the video, already have a Pro 1 and I really like using it. What would you recommend to go with it?
I was looking at the Solina string ensemble 🤔
That’s such a hard question. I think it should definitely be a poly, and the String Ensemble is definitely a possibility. Assuming you like the small form factor of the Pro-1, have you considered the Pro-800?
My first synth is a Roland TB-303. I bought it when I was 14, it was bloody expensive. But I really wanted THAT sound. For about two years, I could not afford anything else, but I happily synced it to vinyl. Manually, just as I did with two records on my Technics 1210s.
So... I am already done with my first synth. Can you please tell me what my LAST synth could be?
Great channel btw ❤
This is such an interesting and hard question! I’ve been thinking about it - perhaps one way to consider the question is to ask what synth would completely satisfy your needs? There are certainly a few things I would want. For example, I would want at least five octaves if not six (if not eight), proper bi-timbrailty so I could split the keyboard and play different patches with each hand, proper controls with no menu-diving, and so the list goes on. If it were the mid 80s I would have said that the Jupiter 8 was the best (ignoring specialist synths like the CS-80) mainly because of the keyboard split. Today it’s quite hard. I would be *extrenely* happy with the Behringer UB-Xa which has five octaves, is properly bi-timbral, has 16 note polyphony, polyphonic aftertouch, and extensive midi. Beyond that I’d be tempted so start talking about eight octave weighted controller keyboards which sort of misses the point. I feel very at sea with this question…
I fell in love with the Access Virus B and bought it back in 1999. It sounds incredible but was (and still is) overwhelming because menu navigation to the routing was beyond my skills 25 years ago. VCV Rack has taught me heaps and I really like your production tips and techniques.
Oh thank you so much! I’m forever saying that good gear isn’t so critical and cheap gear will do, but the Access Virus B is a *fantastic* sounding instrument.
@@DistortThePreamp there are two soft versions of the Virus - Adam Szabo has made a glorious interpretation which will load the libraries for the Virus, and another group has made a full DSP emulation so it is the actual instrument in code.
I am very much enjoying your videos and seeing if I can convince Reason 13's sidechain to sound as good as your gates (you considerably more experience with this than me) and I can hear that there is much to be achieved by finessing the hold and release parameters. Cheers!
I’m watching this video atm. Do you mention what daw you use is it Logic Pro X and do you Quantise automate time sync layers ? Cheers and a great video would be on this and Quantise layers time sync and how to lip sync your song to a video clip so the lips are perfect time to the music. Is there even a software that time syncs this nowadays? Cheers 🥂
Hi. I don’t mention what DAW I use deliberate because (a) I don’t want to start a war, and (b) my choice is very specific to some unusual setup requirements I have. I was an Ableton user since version 5, and still use it for processing midi and some of things only it can do, but a few years ago I switched to Pro Tools. There are a lot of things that Pro Tools can do that pretty much only Pro Tools can do. I’ve also got Logic but I almost never use that. Having said all of that I wouldn’t recommend any DAW without knowing the circumstances, and the DAW I recommend most of the time is Logic because it’s pretty much fully featured and very affordable. And for electronic in the box musicians I tend to recommend Ableton.
In my case it was not difficult to pick my first synth because my wife bought it as a present for me.😊
A friend was selling it used.
It was the Korg MS2000B.
Best present ever! Was it a total surprise or did you request it?
@@DistortThePreamp it was a surprise 😋
@@kostisv that’s a very nice synth, and a very nice present :)
Yep, go watch the studio tour with the synth guy from portushead he has a notebook with his settings for each song that he took with him on tour to setup the patches for each song for every song, yep had to set all the parameters by hand for every synth for every song through the whole live performance.
PRO ONE , any day of the week !!
The choice of champions ;)
This takes me back to 1982 when I bought my first synth a Moog Prodigy - a cut down Minimoog on a tight budget. At the time the Prodigy MkII (has interface jacks on the back) was £219 for 2 oscillators and 2 envelopes over the £249 Roland SH-09 single oscillator with Sub and single envelope. Sound wise, there was nothing between this little Moog and the Sequential Circuits Pro one at £449. The Pro One has a very comprehensive modulation section and full ADSR envelopes over the Moog. I also like how your main choices actually compliment each other sonically and there is no wrong answer as to which one to choose first.
Yes. Those the Model D and the Pro-1 were the first two Behringer clones I bought and they are very different in ways which are not obvious from the front panel. I'm probably guilty of not reaching enough for the Model D for non-bass sounds. Must try harder.
Around the same time (1983) I bought my first real synth, a Moog Rogue, on sale for $99 (new!) at Sam Ash. I think it checks all of these boxes, and I still have it.
@@edgeof60 Very nearly got the Rogue when it came out to compliment the Prodigy but ended up saving for an ARP Omni instead as I'd played a friend's and liked the Jean Michel Jarre Oxygene/Equinoxe sound and those 'icy' strings. The Rogue was so tempting because it has V-Triggers so can interface with Roland and ARP gear.
Great recommandations - tx
My first synth (apart from a Casio VL-Tone) was a Moog Rogue in 1982. Pretty basic but it’s how I learned about synths along with using a friend’s Roland SH101. Sad to say that I don’t have it anymore…
Oh that would have been a good starting point. I had a VL-Tone too. It turns out it was a little more programmable than I understood at the time, and I still miss that Fantasy patch. Apparently Behringer is considering a clone. I kid you not 😂
@@DistortThePreamp A Behringer VL- Tone!! That’s interesting 🤔
Just a wonder. Those of us with a software model d and several midi controllers, will assigning all the dials on the software to a midi controller dial effectively achieve the same result. Sure we won’t have the same analog flux or de tune, but from a pure learning perspective will it give me the same learning experience? I would love to buy a whole room of synths and gates, step sequencers, drum machines and the works, but realistically the lack of cash flow as an aspiring musician sort of rules it all out. As you said a but too late for some of us, owning a plug-in has just about zero resale value so trying to make a sandwich out of the dog’s breakfast is about all some of us can hope for. Any practical advice is appreciated. (Btw: love the channel and learning so much so thank you immensely)
This is a really interesting question. I think it could, and to be honest you wouldn’t really have to assign ALL the dials. The Arturia V collection imitations are pretty good (though I would bypass the effects section) and their MiniMoog for example is easily good enough for a production. I’ve never used their custom pre-mapped keyboard but I hear great things about it. The premise of the video assumed that the viewer wanted to buy a first analog synth. But if you don’t, then I think mapping software controllers to an analog classic soft synth might be a good thing to try. Do you have a midi controller and keyboard?
@@DistortThePreamp I know the original premise was for purchasing a first hardware synthesizer at a reasonable low cost. Sadly for me being in Canada, though I am originally from England, is availability of used synths are pretty slim and can cost almost as much as new when factoring in P&H. I did grab the Moog Model D app from MoogMusic when it initially launched for the iPad that works on Mac with M2 chip very well for sub $20. Now I am not likely to try using this for live performances, it will hopefully work well enough as a learning tool. I have got a Novation Launchkey49 and Control XL (that were bought used for a reasonable cost) so ample pots, sliders and buttons along with 4 octaves of note keys. As you’re said, if the goal is to learn before spending the money on a larger synthesizer, then hopefully this model D is a reasonable starting point. If I get back to London to visit family, I will have to look you up and buy you a pint.. cheers mate.
what a twist of luck and fate. Found a Behringer Pro 1 about 20km from my home for sale. Will see if I can get it down sub $250. Will get to see if I can make that sweet pluck sound too. The software model D does work with midi assigned controllers but still can’t seem to dial in the sweet spot sound. Thanks again for the great videos you are making.
Oh wow! I really do love that synth so much! Someone asked me to make the Kraftwerk Zap sound. Took literally a minute. There’s a trick though because you need to use a sine wave and on the face of it the Pro-1 doesn’t have a sine wave… except that it does… you get A LOT OF POINTS if you know how to get a sine wave out of a Pro-1… any ideas?
I remember reading somewhere that many of the Analog Synths don't come with a sine wave so you make one up with a saw tooth running through the filter set to 25-50%. Now I haven't had a chance to test this out as my Pro-1 got held up with the seller taking a business trip. On the plus side I did get my sub $250 so I will happily wait for my toy.
Kobol Expander was my first proper synth. Does that count ? I think that I like using patch cables...
But I miss not having a sequencer. So I returned it and am thinking of a Korg Monologue.
First off, love your channel!
My first h/w synth was a Neutron, which I really enjoy, and it has taught me a lot. I’d love to know how well (or not) it compares to a Pro-1 - I’ve always been impressed with the sound of the Pro-1 on various RUclips videos.
I also have a Model D 👍 which I get on well with, and a Modal Skulpt 👎 which I don’t.
Regarding USB MIDI, I have an issue with the Model D where it does some weird kind of buffering thing where triggers get missed, but when you play the next note it plays what should have been the note before. Other times there’s a good 1-second delay in notes coming through. So… MIDI cables FTW!
Ah, I live my Neutron but it does sound different. Originally I always used to patch around the overdrive and delay circuits to get a ‘purer’ sound. But your question is very interesting because it goes to the heart of why synths sound different. Sure it could be the oscillators or the filter, but it’s also the programming interface. I think I should be able to replicate Pro-1 sounds on the Neutron but blending and mixing oscillators isn’t quite the same as just turning them up. And fast switching from square to saw like you can on the Pro-1 isn’t the same on the Neutron. So the reality is that I *never* us the Neutron for bass or plucks simply because I can dial up the sounds easier on the Pro-1. What I *do* use the Neutron for is very sharp percussive sequenced sound, drones, and stuff that’s more suited to it. Also, these days, I prefer to keep the OD and delay circuits in. Couple more points: have you seen my video on Noise? That’s obv done with the Neutron because it has a resonant band pass filter. And finally, I made a fantastic Vox Humana patch using the Neutron but ‘borrowing’ LFOs from the Model D and Pro-1. I was going to make a video but became convinced it would be boring and Vox Humana ‘had been done’. Really appreciate you watching, and your comments.
Forgot to reply to your USB midi comment. Yup - Midi din all the way. I keep USB plugged up for the editor so that I can do things like change the waveform selector from continuous to stepped (because I am never gonna learn those crazy panel combinations) but I find USB midi to be very weird and unpredictable. So I only use Midi din. I’m running about 20 channels of Midi over two circuits, and one of them gets distributed through a Yamaha midi box from the 80s. I get congestion, and sometimes one of my old drum machines can’t cope and drops snares and kicks. But it’s still better. And when it comes time to track, I stop all the musical synths and just play the rhythm track into the daw. I get midi drift, nothings perfectly on the grid, and it all sounds amazing. In fact when I moved everything onto a grid it sounded like computer music. So yeah, Midi cables FTW.
How do you think the Neutron stacks up in comparison, if one can be found for a good price?
I enjoy my Neutron very much. But I would say that the Neutron is a fantastic synth for people who already understand subtractive and want to learn modular, but not as good a learning synth as either the Model D or Pro-1 (or Arturia Minibrute if you want something with keys). It's a bit too complicated even without the patchbay, and I wouldn't want people to learn on a synth that has an osciallator mixer rather than a volume control for each. But, as I say, if you know how to programme mono synths and you're thinking of getting into modular than the Neutron would be a fantastic choice. I also credit it with preventing me from falling down a modular trap as it turned out to be all I need. Incidentally, I started out bypassing the built in overdrive and delay, but now routinely use them in -- the delay has a real character and the overdrive serves as a sort of tone control! I also often patch my Neutron between my Model D and Pro-1.
It's a shame the original Minibrute only has one oscillator, as it's such a great synth to learn on. The layout of the controls that follow the signal path, the logical use of faders for ADSR envelopes, and the ability to set the filter as highpass, lowpass, notch, really make it ideal for learning. If you could get that, then trade it in later for a Behringer Model D, I think that would be a good logical progression before you get into advanced signal patching.
I absolutely agree. I have the original MiniBrute and, exactly as you say, I think it’s the best learning synth. The form factor isn’t quite as small as the Model D or Pro-1 and I’m not sure that it will hold its resale value as well. But it should as it’s an amazing synth. Also the complaint that most people have about it sounding too driven is absolutely bogus and simply means they’re driving the oscillators too hard into the filter. Back then off to about 50% and the synth sounds very different. Not better, just different.
thx
🙏
Just found your channel and loving it having just started out making music. I bought the Behringer Kobol expander as a first synth (before I saw this vid)..any thoughts on this one?
what do you think Behringer pro-1 vs pro-800?
Oh I think they’re both incredible! I would still be inclined to recommend the Pro-1 for learning simply because it’s WYSIWYG but obviously the Pro-800 is far more powerful!
How do we save the sounds we make using these two synths?
Great question! Once upon a time we would have filled in patch sheets, but now I mostly just take photos and file them in the session folder. This is the main reason why I’ve swapped my knobs - to make them easier to read on photos. I do still sometimes use patch sheets but only if there are extra notes I want to make about the sound. Thanks for watching, and for taking the time to comment :)
So how can we listen to your band?
Ah - for the 80s band you would need a Time Machine!
If an agree to all of your points, the one I don’t agree with is the subtractive mono synth.
I’d like to learn FM Synthesis in your prescribed way..
So the interface should be like the megaFM synth.
But it should have the waveforms of the Korg Opsix
And the algorithms should operated like the matrix of the EMS VCS 3.
And the envelopes of Yamaha dx7
So essentially what the Opsix is, just with some improvements.
Although from a philosophical point filters are not necessary, but add the beloved Low pass filter*. And a comb filter just to please me.**
If the waveforms are there I’d be content with 4 operators.
If a comb filter is an effect, why is a low pass filter not also an effect?
If filters is such an essential ingredient, why is often only a low pass filter there? There are high pass, band pass, low shelf, notch, formant and other filters.**
And size? A synth should have knobs that are adequate for men so microfreak is the bare minimum.
** = we’re living in the year 2024, we don’t have to chastise us down to the level of the 1980ties.
You make interesting points. The reason why low pass is the traditional filter is because the way people typically think about subtractive synthesis is to start with a sound that's rich in harmonics and then take them away, and obviously harmonics are above the fundamental. So filter's are really about harmonics control, although of course they could also be about tone shaping. FM is a fascinating type of synthesis but very hard for people to understand, unless they just want to turn knobs and see what happens. So I tend to think that people should start by learning what the waveforms sound like, and once they can distinguish a saw from a square easily and understand why those waveforms sound different then they can move into why hard syncing one oscillator to another can change the shape of a sine wave and add harmonics, and clipping a sine turns it into a square, and so on. I think people that understand subtractive well should be able to look at a mono synth panel and known what sound it would make by reading the controls. Whereas a lot of people couldn't necessarily explain from scratch how to use FM to make a cymbal or bell, and why that sound is produced. This is not to disagree with you -- I absolutely think your point of view is legitimate! -- but personally I'm still inclined to 'teach' subtractive before FM :-) Really appreciate your comment though!
@@DistortThePreamp
FM, I think, isn’t that complicated. It lacks
A. people who teach it in a non-complicated way
B.FM synthesisers that support that fully.
For B: I’d like to have an oscilloscope, a spectrum analyser, many outputs that can be routed into those displays, showing you the waveforms you start with and you end up with(meaning show separately the frequencies of the each operator , the resulting FM output of each stack and the final result. Make it show lissajous figures, chladni figures. An XY- controller 10by10 cm to change 2 parameters at once.
The subtractive synth that would support that would be Modular synths but every synth learner of any type would profit from that. At least that’s my opinion.
For A. FM is believed to be complicated because the first FMsynth had an unfriendly user interface.
Show what an LFO does but use a full frequency oscillator. That’s all what’s behind FM.
Algorithms are just layering things in different ways and if you look with that in mind they’re easy to understand.
At first just use integer ratios 1:1, 1:3, 2:1 experiment.
The Opsix is a step in the right direction, but it leaves room for improvement (at least on the education side)
If a subtractive user is allowed to use delay and reverb, so are you.
@@hermask815 I think you're right on both points. For B, like you say, something that would give you a visual representation would be helpful, as would having a seriously basic FM synth. Limit operators e.g. allow only 2 operators to be carriers, 2 to be modulators, and maybe re-name some of the parameters to sound less mathematical - have a knob that alters ratios without calling them that for example.
FM came well after subtractive so I think to make FM understandable to more people it really needs to be explained and represented in a way that's as similar as possible to what people already know, while still somehow explaining the principles. Which are simple in nature - it's sine waves interfering with sine waves - but complex to visualise and anticipate.
Why not the pro-800? 8 note polyphony & very similar to pro-1 in terms of features & knob per function.
The Pro-800 is *such* a great synth! The only reason I didn’t recommend it for beginners is that, because of the presets, you can’t visually match the knob positions to the sound you’re hearing which I don’t think is great when you’re learning. I suppose, ironically, I would prefer it *not* to have presets for beginners because, for me, a beginner’s synth should be a tutorial tool rather than the most features for the lowest price. However, I’m aware that a lot of people would disagree with that point of view and, certainly, it’s a more flexible synth. And it’s also a little more expensive. Really appreciate you watching and taking the time to comment :)
@@DistortThePreamp There is the perf button, which causes the synth to take all of its instructions from the panel rather than any preset data, effectively making it 'preset-less'. Beginners might not pick up on this distinction, however, and just get confused. Seems like presetless, knob per function is the way to go for a first synth. I like the idea of 'earning your patches'
‘Earning your patches’ is a great way of summing it up 😂 I was starting to feel a little silly when, in my earlier reply, I realised that I was effectively saying that patches weren’t a good idea for beginners! But I do think it’s true…
I remember it was quite easy for me to buy "my 1st synth" in 1985. The choice was simple, it was the one I can afford. An alpha Juno 1 (didn't have the money for the "2") 😁
Where do you buy these knobs?
Ah, so many people have asked me this and I can’t remember! I think it must have been eBay. Though it might have been a specialist knobs website. What I can tell you is that they were quite easy to source because it’s a standard D fitting. They look great on video, but the reason I got them was entirely practical. First, I needed to be able to read the settings at a distance which is impossible on, say, the Model D stock knobs. And I needed the settings to be clear in photos too which is how I store most of my patches (unless they need explanation). But the second reason was that I used to have them racked up low and in terrible light so I also needed the colours so I could distinguish between the envelopes 😂
What about the kobol from behringer ?
I think the Kobol is an excellent synth. I think it’s a little more complicated than either of the Model D or the Pro-1, plus because it’s not based on such a well known classic I’m not sure that it will be quite as easy to buy or sell at the right price. However, if anybody decided to choose that for their first synth then it’s a fantastic instrument!
Is it possible to create pad sounds with the pro-1 ? Sorry if this is a silly question but a bit clueless when it comes to synth sound design
@@thestonedrummer6147 The Pro-1 is mono which means it can only play one note at a time, and for pads you really need to be able to play chords. However the Pro-800 is excellent for pads (as are many others).
It's all very true about getting first a mono with no keyboard and no presets and not spending that much. For people learning Model D is a bit weird interface wise. Now that Behringer is making a clone of the Grandmother that could be on your list too in that budget. I have the Grandmother which sounds amazing I'm gonna assume the clone does too and the interface is a total improvement over the Minimoog/Model D interface which is gonna make the beginner scratch their head a bit. For sure the Pro-One is great like all Sequential synths for both sounds and that feeling of looking at the panel and understanding everything. The Neutron is also interesting from Behringer. I had Minibrute when I got into synths and then Minibrute 2 and 2S which all had great interfaces but even without overdriving the oscillators in the mixer neither of these sounds anywhere as good as Grandmother or Pro-One or even Cat or... wait for it... Akai Timbre Wolf, which is totally limited but sounded better than any of the Arturia analog monos. Way better. No comparison. I don't why that is but it's true.
I know there’s supposed to be no dumb questions, but I think I might… you have talked about using midi to trigger a Monday synth and gave an example with what seemed to be multi layered sounds. can you show the process. i am a guitar player with a Moog Grandmother that i love. But, so far, I've not worked out how to send midi triggers made in my DAW (logic) back to it. further, how did you get the layers? By running and bouncing multiple times?
Not a stupid question at all! But just to check, when you wrote ‘…midi to trigger a Monday synth…’ that was autocorrect, right? You meant to write ‘Moog’? Could you also, possibly, give me the time code of the video so I’ve got context? Appreciate you watching and your comments :)
@@DistortThePreamp thanks for the reply. Well, my question has multiple errors when I think and look back sorry. Yes, Moog Grandmother is my synth. So it has USB and midi in/out. When I look back, it was actually your Ambient Arps video that I had in mind where you say (or I understood) you created (with a live performance) and midi sequence which was then used to trigger the Model D and Pro synths to get a good comparison. So…., I guess my questions are (a) I cam make a midi sequence in Logic, but how practically do I get that to “trigger” (maybe the wrong word) the Grandmother. So far I’ve no succeeded, and (b) is the track you produced the outcome of one play through a single midi sequence, or were there multiple sequences you ran one after another to get the final audio? My question came about as I thought I was hearing layers and multiple notes from a mono synth. On reflection, maybe that was partly your point. Maybe that’s the delay cascades? Just FyI, I’m a guitar player in my 60s who is proving out the cliche as I buy my first synth and peak my head down that rabbit hole. Help me, I’m afraid I might be falling…….
No problem at all!
Let me start by telling you about how I made the ambient arps music. First I created the arps by playing them live into my sequencer which recorded the midi. I was playing chords with an eight note arpeggiator running but so that I could hear an approximation of the finished effect I was playing against a kick drum and also monitoring the sound of the synth through the dotted eight delay. I needed both hands for the arps as well as a foot for the sustain pedal so I couldn't manipulated the controls on the synth as well! However, to be clear, it was a genuine single live take with no editing. From memory I set the track record length to something huge like 128 bars and just kept improvising until I could tell it was looping back Then, once the arps were recorded (note: actually only the chords were recorded since the arp is a midi effect in the sequencer) I played it back out only this time I was standing at the synth manipulating the sound. This also mean that the arp music for both synths was exactly the same notes. There's only one part and no layers, but as you guessed the combination of the cascading delays and reverb make for a very full sound.
Second, let me talk about you controlling your synth from Logic. Unfortunately I'm not a Logic expert, but the principal (regardless of daw) will be this:
- you create a midi track, sometimes called an instrument track
- you drag the midi clip onto that track
- you set the output of the midi to be your synth which should appear in a drop down list. You may have to pick the output midi channel and then make sure your Moog matches, but that's won't be hard.
- it's possible that you might have to go through some pain with the Apple Midi Setup (or whatever it's called these days). My strong guess, however, is that you won't and everything will be plug and play.
I'm so sorry that I don't know enough about Logic to give you step by step instructions, but I imagine that you should be able to find a clear guide on RUclips because your use case is very common.
I'm assuming you downloaded the midi clip from the ambient arps video right?
Your remark about chords confused me quite a lot but it also made me wonder. Because when I play around on my synth (with the idea of improving) I seem to keep jumping back and forth between "sound synthesis" and "music composition" to the point that it almost becomes a "fight" between the two skills. It feels so hard to focus on one without getting dragged into the other, if you get what I mean.
What would you recommend? Try to develop both skills separately, for example by sticking to piano / guitar when composing vs an arpeggio on hold when focusing on synthesis? Is that why you adviced against poly-synths?
That’s such an interesting question. This was my slightly jokey statement that “chords were cheating” or that they gave me “self-esteem issues” right? It’s a deeper topic than it sounds. Without spoiling a future video, although we nowadays think in chords, that has only been the case for a few hundred years. Originally music was thought of as being horizontal with different melodic lines intertwining. It was only later when the idea of ‘vertical chords’ was introduced. I’m obviously not opposed to polyphony - that would be a bit ridiculous! However, I do think that from a compositional point of view it can be very beneficial to work out ‘horizontal’ intertwining melodies. Let me give you an example. Suppose you have a chord progression. Start by making sure all chords have the same number of notes, let’s say four. Now map each of those four notes to a different sound - for example, have the lowest note played by a bass, the top note played by a string, maybe a bell for the second highest, maybe an organ for the second lowest (whatever, those are just examples). Probably pitch the lowest note down an octave. Now listen to each of the individual parts and try to hear it as its own melody. Now re-record it as though it really is its own melody, so you’re sustaining repeating notes, perhaps adding extra rhythm, and so on. This is a very useful compositional exercise. Make sense?
Just bought a 2nd hand B’pro 1 off the back of this video. My fave is actually is the Sollina but I’d really like to learn synthesis. 🎹👍
Oh brilliant! Yes the Solina is great fun but I would def recommend an actual synth :)
Your two oscillators should also have both of their L's. 😉
My first hardware synth was, in fact, the Minibrute 2S. Yes! The one without the keyboard. 😁
My second was a Novation Bass Station II and I totally love that thing.
Oh good grief - so embarrassing! Those are both fantastic synths. The Novation is of course great, but I also love pretty much all Arturia synths and the MiniBrute 2s is just amazing! I don’t think it’s for beginners (maybe I’m wrong?) but once people have figured out what they’re doing it’s a wonderful playground! Thanks for your comment. I really appreciate it…
You should try the Behringer Kobal , it will blow your shorts off. £165.
This is absolutely on my list! I seem to be spending all my time making RUclips videos at the moment, but when I get back to, y’know, working and producing… 😂
@@DistortThePreamp It does incredible harmonically rich bass , the filter is the incredible and capable of outstandingly fast switching for Techno. The Bespoke chip design was also overseen by the guy Rob Keeble (AMS Synths).
You could say that this is a magical time to get into synths, because there are so many good options at amazing prices.
I get what you are saying about a keyboard, but that does introduce the necessity to have other things around, and that's going to create some friction with regards to just making sounds. The Odyssey synths for this reason make an obvious option that fulfill many of your other objectives. Uli's new Roland SH-5 copy does as well. Oh I would also say that none of these synths have even decent midi. Most of them don't even implement the mod wheel. Proper midi would include significant CC support at the very least.
I do get your cost factor, and resellability, but I wouldn't make such a big deal about these. Spending sub $1500 isn't a big deal for a musical instrument. A good student clarinet is going to cost you that much. This would open people up to things like the Sequential Take Five, TEO, Behringer's Uliheim, etc. These would all make great first synths. And it is really nice to be able to have patch memory, photos are a silly way to store patches. Tom gave us this ability back it 1978. We don't use a dial phones, and for the same reason modern synths should implement patch memory.
It is truly unfortunate that the industry has moved away from multi-timbral synths. For plugins sure it makes sense, because routing is weird with a multi-timbral plugin for many DAWs, but in hardware it's just another midi channel. The early multi T synths (Sequential Six Trak) would let you have six mono synths, and this was a fantastic way to learn about orchestration.
Nice video, thanks for your effort!!!
Thanks for this very thoughtful comment. Really I agree with everything you’ve said. I’m aware that for some people budget is a huge issue and so I feel a little uncomfortable recommending people spend more than the minimum, especially because I’m such a huge fan of ‘value’ instruments. But if people have the money and the space then (a) I would always get a keyboard, and (b) there are som many amazing synths to choose from. Not to keep banging on about Behringer but their UB-Xa is astonishing. I mean it has *poly aftertouch!!!!* Thank you so much for watching and for taking the time to comment. Very much appreciated :)
@@DistortThePreamp I also really enjoyed your Duran Duran arp secrets. Thanks for these videos!
through a series of moderate trades and a little bargaining I ended up getting a full Deepmind 12 for about $100 out of my pocket,
I feel like it covers a lot of basses but something still feels missing and I can't quite put my finger on it.
Next i'm onto my first drum machine to go with it.
Right! I honestly cannot recommend that synth highly enough. I almost sent mine back when I got it and it took me a while, but it’s well worth the time. You probably know the story - how Behringer’s Manchester synths team were working in a Juno clone but kept adding more features. So the first thing I would suggest is to ‘hobble’ your deep mind into a Juno: call up the default patch, reset the sliders, set the VCA and VCF velocity controls to zero, make sure the fx are bypassed (which btw bypasses that digital converters so it’s now a true analog signal path), and click all three envelope buttons so you, effectively only have one envelope. Then learn to make the utility synth patches. However, my experience is that not only do you learn to *love* the extra functionality, but I now even love some of the fx! But, just to emphasise, the extra functionality includes oscillator sync, pitch control etc over the second ‘oscillator’, a mental mod matrix, full midi cc over every parameter… it’s an amazing synth that just wasn’t terribly commercially successful. Also, don’t worry about the inbuilt patches being a bit ‘dreadful’ - that’s an occupational hazard of pretty much all synths. House patches are meant to show off the synth and sound as gaudy as possible. They rarely work well in a mix. Final tip: to get the Juno chorus sound, use the ‘Chorus’ effect (not Dim D or whatever they call it), put it in Send mode, and change the mod speed to 0.4. That sounds pretty close to me, and easily close enough for a mix. I could go on, but I fear my gushing would bore you 😂 If anything I’ve said above doesn’t make sense, let me know and I’ll make 3 min private video.
@@DistortThePreamp normally when I get a synth the first thing I do is blank out all the patches, but the cat I bought it from had a really cool aftermarket pack loaded. There's a way to get it to more in-line with the juno-60 over the 106 as well, but I absolutely understand what you mean. But yeah it can sound absolutely amazing for ambient type music and some other genres
For my own sound design so far I feel like I get more prophet-5 sounding patches then Juno patches though that just might be me.
I also found a great video on converting it to a sort of pseudo additive synth with using the well done filter calibration and the KBD tracking.
I would say where i've been least impressed has been with low-end bassy type sounds, I've been able to get it to "servicable" but nothing great so I'm considering something to fill in that end. Hence how I ended up here :D
Ah - well this video is really about ‘performing ratter than programming’ synth bass, so it’s a production technique rather than sound selection. To get the biggest bass out of the DM12 I would definitely use the Bass Boost button (which mimics one of the Juno’s sonic characteristics) but if at the end of the day it’s Prophet bass you’re looking for, you could of course consider selling the DM12 and buying the Pro-800, unless you need a keybed? You could probably do that trade at a profit. I don’t generally use the DM for bass, although to be fair I didn’t use the Juno for bass either back in the day, or even the Prophet. Apart from some FM bass I’ve always used mono synths. I’m not sure there’s a sonic reason - probably just that I didn’t want to tie up a poly with a mono bass line (even though sometimes you want the bass notes to ring slightly).
@@DistortThePreamp yeah that's what im saying, i'm trying to figure out a good mono to pair with it. I have a microfreak i've had for about a year now and it just doesn't do it either haha. I'll find the right one eventually though :D
For mono synths I would suggest either the Model D or Pro-1. They’re both amazing, but maybe the Model D? Have you seen my Ambient Arps video? That showcases both pretty well (as does the Plucks video)…
As a B hater (i dont hate the owners and just feel sorry for the lovers) for ethical reasons but i have to say, this channel is really well made and interesting imo, and primarily because it's about techniques ratrher than gear; no snobbism here and i like that.... My first hw synth was in 2006 and i got me a brand new lately released Roland SH_201 witch was great for leaning (the users manual is a must have if you are learning substractive synth, okay, in that case you'd go for the model d 's um...), it was 600 euros when released witch is over your price range but i got it brand new from the shop. this was not analog but not mono, it had layers, a great synth for learning...
That's really kind, and an interesting comment. I'm absolutely trying to make this channel about actual production techniques used live in the wild, rather than sweeping filters on the latest synth. The Roland SH-201 must have been fun. For me controls are pretty critical, and I don't care so much about whether the oscillators are analog or modelled. The reason I don't use soft synths at the moment is only that I like dedicated controllers with zero latency. I wouldn't have a problem with using, for example, the Roland JX-08 Boutique in a production (despite what Espen Kraft says). Having said all of that, for space reasons I need everything to be racked up so no large synths for me unless/until I get a bigger studio. Really appreciate you watching, and taking the time to comment.
@@DistortThePreamp yup! i'm in, and as for now your channel isnt big yet, it's cool to have you responding and to be able to chat. in 2006, getting an analog synth, even va was still pretty expensive. I thing there are greart digital generator and great analog ones aswell, they participate intoo having a broader palett of sounds, so imo the debate about analog vs digital is not that intersting, that being said, i started with computers (amigas lol, in 98, great breakbeat live sessions in the free party scene of the south of france, so it worked, and that why i'm not a big fan of snobbism in audio), but when i was able, i got my me an mpc and then forgot about virtual computer stuff... I design and build audio gear for a (modest) living (lately worked a lot for the dub sound system scene for fx and processors). I have mooved in a bigger place lately and i will be working on a new channel ("voodoo'in audio" i think i'll name, it) and now i'm gonna have more time for making nice vids aswell, i'm planning a series on delay techniques (based on craig anderton's tremendous book on the topic). What i find inspiring in your way of doing this is it soesnt get boaring like often they get when guys share theyre techniques, it stays intertaining, i'm not a big fan of those 3 hour vids on an ableton screen, and i'm a hardware gueezer myself. All the best man, maybe later if i get that channel going we could try some cool things and experiments, i, as an electronician am planning to make easy and afordable tools for studio, mounted or in diy mode (like the tape head tranceiver to put in an echoes feedback or to give a tape style treatment), and i'm hoping i'll be able to find a few youtubers i could send some things to for them to experiment.... So please, just in case, remember that channel name, my next comment might be in that name.... and just in case you have a minute you can check myt channel to see what kind of gear i have been working on these last years....
I’ve looked at your channel and the stuff you’re building looks very interesting. I also looked up Craig Anderton’s book which I wasn’t aware of - I found a PDF and it’s sooo interesting. It’s very hard work making these videos not boring, so I’m very thankful that people like you enjoy them…
@@DistortThePreamp yeah that book is tremendous... thanks man. i was shure you'de love that book, the way you talk about your topics exploring tecniques with synths, it's the same type of approach.
Thank you!
26m38s: I had no idea just how important those little white lines are to synth programming....I feel like I understand eighties music so much better now!
Haha. I know it sounds like a joke, but I guess the point is that back then we all filled out patch sheets by hand whereas now we all take photos. So the little white lines are important 😂 God only knows how anyone would call up a Minimoog patch on a dimly lit stage though - i find the original buttons hard to read in a studio!
My like is the 303rd, should I go for a Roland? ;-)
Do you mean that you want a 303 or should you get a Behringer clone? Is that’s what you’re asking, then the answer is get the clone! Not only does it sound the same, it’s got midi ;)
@@DistortThePreamp I was just playing, but yes I get your point, and I really enjoyed your talk that led to the Pro 1.
What's the synth above the Neutron in your rack?
Ah, that is the rack version of the Behringer DeepMind 12 which different knobs so I can read it more easily. It doesn’t get a lot of love, but I think it’s amazing. It took me a while to fall in love with it and I even sent it back once, but once you’ve figured it out it’s amazing. Like a Juno with *a lot* of extra features.
@@DistortThePreamp I see, good to know, maybe a piece of gear to check - Thank you for your answer and your videos!
Thank you for watching! I really do like the DeepMind 12. And because almost nobody else does they’re ridiculously cheap. Like you can pick one up for £389 which is bonkers. You do have to spend time with it though, but it’s one of my favourite synths to programme. I was doing some mental stuff this afternoon preparing for a video about synth pads, and I set the third envelope to loop so it was like an LFO, and then made the ADSR curved.
Not looking at the control is the way to go in many fields.
You should drive a car without looking at the pedals and gear shifter.
You should enter text in your computer without looking at the keyboard.
You should play guitar without looking at your guitar neck or fingers.
You should play piano/synth without looking at your fingers.
You should know how to get a specific sound on your synth without relying on presets.
Yeah, shoulda,
I only can do it with cars if you covered everything with a cloth, so I can’t see any below the neck.
I don't drive, but of course I totally agree! :)
You said "with a very heavy heart" - Does this mean that despite the fact that you are recommending the pro-1, you just love the model-d a little more?
Well almost. If not more then at least as much. The Pro-1 is definitely a better utility synth. But sometimes when I need that ‘weight’ only the Model D will do. And I do often find myself reaching for it just because I enjoy playing it so much.
@@DistortThePreampThanks for the input. That makes sense. After weighing the features you mentioned, the pro 1 is next on my wishlist now! I really appreciate the time and effort you are putting into your videos. This has quickly become my favorite music production channel!
That’s incredibly kind and amazing to hear. Do you mind if I ask whether you have any other synths? The reason is that I wouldn’t necessarily recommend the Pro-1 as a follow-up synth. I mean I might, but it would depend what (if anything) you had already.
I am a guitarist and so I have only just recently become interested in synths.. I currently only have a volca drum and a volca fm2. I am looking for an analog synth for bass lines and leads.. and want to expand my horizons beyond the volcas (even though I do love the ones I currently own)
Oh then def the Pro-1! You wouldn’t know it from this channel, but I’m primarily a guitarist too. I didn’t want to start ‘yet another guitar channel’ but I will definitely be branching out into guitar with an emphasis on production tricks and sound design rather than playing. Orr that’s what I’m planning anyway :)
…nearly!
great content, pls consider doing one on the Neutron, cheers =)
Will do! I use the Neutron a lot and it’s a bit difficult to know where to start! It’s really quite deep, especially when you wire it in to other systems. I was going to do a video where I showed how to make the Vox Humana patch using the Neutron but borrowing two LFOs and attenuators from other synths. The patch sounded *amazing*! However I sort of concluded that vox humana had ‘been done’ on RUclips and people wouldn’t find it interesting. Do you agree? Let me know if you have any topics you’d particularly like me to cover on the Neutron! Really appreciate you watching, and the comment :)
@@DistortThePreamp Awesome. For me the most confusing part nowadays is the internal ("invisible") routing that I just keep forgetting after a month or two of not touching my Neutron..lol, its like a constant source of wonder for me. (like: ASSIGN->ATT1 CV and both attenuators when unpatched..). That being said, I plan to keep it as a cheap but feature packed Eurorack utility module (LFOs, ATTs, slew, sum, etc. - thats unbeatable).. :)
I completely agree. I can never remember which envelope is which! I got one of those overlays but then never got round to putting it on. The thing that surprises me most about the Neutron is how much I like its overdrive and delay. When I first got it I rolled my eyes and patched around them. Now I see the overdrive as a critical piece of tone shaping, and the delay sounds very nice without being overly prominent. And I totally agree that it’s an unbeatable feature set at the price!
Yeah, the Neutron is great and it is original as the Deepmind (to calm Beringer hate), why did it not win your vote?
My recommendation would be under 250=Model D, under 350=PRO800. These two will last you a lifetime of great music if you never bought anything else.
@@CB-ul2np I think the Pro-800 is amazing. But my recommendation is still to learn on a mono with no ability to save patches, and then once you’ve completely learned everything then trade up to the Pro-800. I know that sounds crazy, but I honestly think that the ability to save patches makes it harder to learn because the knob positions don’t reflect the sound you’re hearing.
❤❤❤
Thanks Kurt!
What's really annoying with software synths is when they're no longer supported and when you update the OS on your computer they no longer F-ing work!
Yup. Don’t get me started. It’s horrific. One of the things that really made me hate plugins was when I upgraded my computer and about $1,000 of plugins from a specific manufacturer stopped working unless I did a paid upgrade or took a subscription. This really upset me.
I thought the "Bored Yet?" sign on your mic was a joke at first, but it turned out to be very helpful. As soon as I could answer "yes", I turned off the video. Thanks for the warning.
Quality heckling!
Knob per function. There are knob per function polysynths, but not for under $250.
Gentlemen take Polaroids, indeed.
Well that’s a fantastic album, obv. Did I mention it? I can’t remember 😂
Embrace the sounds of your vcos going out of tune and learn to love it! 😂
Exactly! Although definitely let them warm up a bit 😂
@@DistortThePreamp I remember when the Behringer model D came out, many people were returning it because of „tuning issues“. Your video about layering basses was such a revelation in that regard! I would love it if you also talked about drums in the future, especially gated snare and the influence of compression in 80s music in general! I sometimes think a lot of production techniques were lost over the years. I absolutely love the way you present things and that you’re so „hands on“ with affordable synths and drum machines! Please keep doing what you do!!!
@@ARP_2600 I didn’t know that people were returning the Model D because of tuning issues. That’s hilarious! It definitely takes at least 10 minutes to warm up, and even then it drifts! I will 100% be covering drums and drum compression in the future. There is such a long production list… thanks for watching and for commenting :)
I should buy a behringer!? Wouldn't touch the thing.
The kids don't know what WYSIWYG means anymore
This is true 😳
Who you see is where you go.
Why you speaking in American?
Well spotted. Complicated family.
I don't like to complain but I would like to inform you that I simply can not listen to your probably interesting advise because of the constant popping noise when you speak. It generates an unpleasant pressure feeling inside my ears.
I am so sorry about this! The channel is very new and I did not have the audio sorted out on these early videos. I believe the problem has now been fixed. Would you mind checking the latest video -- is the audio okay there? I really appreciate this comment btw.
Thank you for the video however it really didn’t need to be 28 minutes long.
Tell me what’s my 1st and last/only synth, under £2000
If you were to buy one and only one synth, and had the space, I would consider the Behringer UB-Xa (currently £999). On the face of it it’s a very good clone of the Oberheim classic with some very nice twists. It’s a genuine analog poly with 16 voices, it’s bi-timbral so you can use it to play two different sounds at the same time (for example, you could split the keyboard), but here’s the truly amazing thing: it’s has polyphonic aftertouch. This means that you can play a chord and then just choose to bring out one of the notes by pressing. This alone makes it an extraordinary piece of equipment. Poly aftertouch is absolutely critical to get close to the kind of moody atmospheric music that, say, Vangelis made for Bladrunner and although he used a CS-80, the reason he chose that synth was not really the sound of the oscillators (although they’re great) it was the way he could isolate and manipulate the sound of a single note from within a chord. I really rave about this synth. I would take it any day over the original Oberheim even if the Oberheim were cheaper (and it’s nowhere near cheaper). So if you get that you’ve still got a grand left over to get a lava lamp and a load of chocolate.
@@DistortThePreamp personally, I’d go for one of these.. GS Music E7, Arturia Polybrute, Novation Summit, Oberheim TEO5
I like the Oberheim. I *love* the Polybrute, but I find it has a bit of a 'sound' so it isn't quite as flexible. Also, unfortunately, it might be a bit harder to sell (if you ever need to). All great choices though :)