Rhythmic Pad Secrets: Recreating 1986 Synth Pop
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- Опубликовано: 8 июл 2024
- I’ve always loved the sound of gated pads but for a long time I couldn’t get the sound right. This is my story of how I eventually found and fell in love with the Drawmer DS201 Dual Channel Gate. I then use my dawless setup to programme a synthpop track on my Squarp Pyramid (heavily inspired by New Order’s ‘Bizarre Love Triangle’) under time pressure and do the whole thing in less than 20 minutes. Then I do a live performance where I improvise gated pads in real time over the backing.
00:00 Intro
MY STORY
02:03 My ‘gated pads’ story
DAWLESS PROGRAMMING AND GATE SETUP
13:17 Timer starts
13:34 Basic drums
14:15 Setting up the trigger key for the gates
15:04 Gated pads and classic Drawmer DS201 setup
16:15 Moog bass
16:55 Strings
19:34 Fantasy
20:10 Slap bass
20:49 FM bass
21:18 Snare fill
22:30 Orch stab
PERFORMANCE
23:50 Dawless performance with live gated pads
• How to do Sidechain Co... 
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The main takeaway from this video for those that dont have half an hour is:
a good gating effect needs an attack&release which are super fast and the side-chain path has a filter.
thats it!
which makes it weird that he says the Ableton gate won't do it. It totally will.
@@aradderunfortunately it won’t because it won’t make the gating distortion effect that the drawmer did, it created extra clicks and bumps to the signal that it was gating due to rise time of the gate opening and a sort of door closing sound when the gate closed again, this I believe came as side effect of the electronics special to the drawmer gates, this is why it had to be a drawmer, possibly by not being the most expensive piece of equipment it was actually a limitation , but as it was back then you took „mistakes“ or „limitations“ and made them a part of the sound, I have worked with many other manufacturers of gates and they are in effect very transparent, and therefore do not give you the drawmer clicks and bumps, it was for example put, you would think unnecessarily, on drum machine kicks to give them that edge and lift to the initial impulse and by manipulating hold and release completely change the character, I suppose it’s that famous analog non linearity and distortion that are possibly technical limitations but very useful ones…
Saw this comment just as I was hearing him say “So let me tell you a little bit about myself…” hahaha 😂 Thanks for the tl;dw!
Yeah, I'm not sure what the big secret was or how it took him so long to 'discover' it.
One’s trash, another one’s gold! Go out to play kiddies
I don't know why I'm watching this. I once spent thousands of dollars and thousands of hours making synth music in my 20s in the 2000s. I married, have family and I feel like that life has long passed me by. I guess I can live vicariously through you guys who kept at it.
Never too late to pick up a few Behringer synths for not a lot and go back to it. Start with a second hand Model D, a TD3, an RD8 and a Keystep pro and you’re up and running!
And a second hand little mixing desk with a couple of sends, a reverb and a delay…it’s crazy how inexpensive this gear is nowadays.
@Sharkpuss I bought a Juno 106 (among about 15 other 80s and analog synths) in 2008 for $300, sold it for $600 to Jay Z two years later. I just looked at the price and a tear almost came to my eye. Lol. I'm thinking about it. The passion is there. It's just the time...50 hour work week inspecting welds with two young kids at home makes it very hard. This was all my choice of course and don't regret kids at all but the love for the art is still there.
@Sharkpuss It's not so much the price, I just have so little time for anything. Also, the idea I could ever make a living at it picking it up again in my 40s is so ridiculous it's depressing. I guess it's a bit of a nostalgic midlife crisis getting to me, Lol. I'm thoroughly enjoying seeing other people doing so much with the art though, I just feel left out or left behind. I may pick up a fee pieces of gear though and just make some music for myself. My kids might get into it when they're older.
I wouldn’t worry - not many people are making a living making music anymore…
I just enjoy the process nowadays :)
Great video. Really pleased that you've unlocked more of the magic of this unit :) Still in production, but as you say, there are a LOT out there on ebay. We're still able to service and repair any tired units too. We also make a few other products that might be of interest... :)
Hi, I see there are both xlr and jack versions of this unit. Are the jack ones TRS balanced? Or does it not matter? Cheers
Try this out = Get your favourite Electric Guitar and an
Ebow and play a long drawn-out part on the Guitar
using the Ebow and record two takes. Then pan each
take hard left & right then reverse the recordings of
the two parts and then insert the Drawmer Gate over
the stereo pair. When you hear the result you will feel
like the choir of Angles that speak for God are speaking
to you.
Haha - you’ve foreshadowed one of the things I’m going to show in another video I’m prepping for later in the year all about gating guitars! I’m currently trying to get my Ebow fixed - the blue light has stopped turning on - but what you’re describing is a wonderful effect.
And now I am fascinated.
Great! You’ve talked about the pet shop boys, new order, Duran Duran Vince Clarke and the smiths, now I just need the cure and OMD. Absolutely love your thorough videos on my favorite bands
Awesome! There’s a video coming that’s about a very interesting (and forgotten) production technique, and the example is indeed a well-known OMD track. I’ve even talked to the producer to double-check the technique. Videos featuring techniques used by bands like The Cure will probably come when the channel enters ‘Phase 2’ and I start to talk about sounds that aren’t made by synths ;) I promise you, this is all coming. Remember this channel is only just past being three months old! (I can hardly believe it myself)
This video made my day! The 80s was a special time. Now understanding this technique on a song I have forever loved- it is much appreciated. Thank you.
It really was a special time. I’m planning to make a lot of videos which try to unpack why the pop songs from that era are lasting so well. There are so many factors which aren’t even specifically to do with music - limited studio time, producers going independent, financial pressure to have a hit - so hopefully this is going to be a fun ride! Thanks for watching. It’s very much appreciated.
Another superb video that explains something I’ve always been wondering about! And another fantastic mic decoration 😂
One of my favorite tutorial videos to date
That’s very kind! There’s amother Drawmer gate video I’m due to make about special tricks, but my production schedule is very backed up… 🙈
Thank you for sharing this great story
Cubase has a midigate.
Secret tip : I also use it to trigger gated sends to a delay or reverb
That’s a great idea! You *would not believe* how sloppy midi can get even with modern equipment made a few years ago, but using it for sends is perfect! Really appreciate your watching the video and commenting :-)
Oh my goodness! You found out what I asked myself for ages! Whot ay naaise video!
Thank you so, so much!!!
This makes me very, very happy! Thank you so much for watching, and for the comment!
I really love hearing you ramble on about the past and about the production techniques. It's so absorbing and your experience is very well received.
Thank you so much!
Lucky to randomly find this. Great video
Oh wow -- is that the famous RUclips algorithm at work, or were you searching for something? Really great that you found it! Thanks for watching, and really appreciate the comment!
Great video, story and impressive live demo!
Thank you! I really appreciate this. Don’t think this is a canned response - I’m still quite overwhelmed by the positive responses. The whole channel was started in mid March. It’s all very new.
As a child of the 80s (79 born) this sound is ingrained in my consciousness. Really love it. Great video. Thanks. We also seem to have started at the same time with the same version of Ableton. Crikey not far off twenty years now and I'm still no " Power User. " Best regards. PK
So glad you like the video! I pretty much became a power user and even ended up writing my own Max4Live devices but then went over to the dark side with another DAW that’s pretty much the opposite of Ableton. So now I track in that, process midi in Ableton, but do all my production in a hardware sequencer. I find the latter so refreshing and extremely fast, which you probably saw in the video. It’s also not that expensive when you consider that, unlike plugins, the gear probably retains its value. But you def need a lot more space and, sometimes, a bit more patience - nothing like staring at a rack wondering why you can’t hear anything to get you to question your choices ;) Thank you so much for watching, and for the comment.
@@DistortThePreamp The Dark Side of DAWS hmm? I won't ask. Are you familiar with the band Ozric Tentacles? I've been a major fan for about 30 years although sadly their last few efforts have been underwhelming. I mention them because they make great use of ethereal, mesmerising gated pads, and swirling synth lines. I've been trying to get close to the sound for yonks but it's beyond my capabilities I think. If you don't know them please have a listen to any of their pre-2000s work. I think you'd enjoy it.
Oh yes, I (obv) know Ozric Tentacles! Very interesting sound. Once this channel settles down I’ll be expanding beyond synths into guitar textures so watch this space :)
Bro...that is LEGIT 80's sound. 🔥🔥🔥
Yes. Love the 80s synth pop sound.
It's such a great sound, right!
Amazing video! Youre super entertaining!
That’s very kind, thank you! This is a very new channel so I’m still finding my feet, and I really appreciate comments like this 🙏
Oh man, I would have listened to this in 1986-87 in the US and been enamored with your band! This is amazing work your doing mate, thank you! Also, +100 for your watch!
Thank you! That’s so kind! And I’m really glad you appreciate the watch 😂
man this is epic ,this gate is class, so snappy
Now that is the truth! So fast! Crazy to think that they’ve been making them since the 80s without any changes - it’s a very classy product.
@@DistortThePreamp I could have 3 of these i used for drums im really looking forward to trying them on synths, thanks so much for sharing, love the relaxed vibe of your videos. 10/10
Thanks! I’ve got three and I wish I had another three 😂
been chasing this sound for a minute. happy to have found your video.
Oh that’s amazing! It’s such an emotional sound - precise and organic at the same time. So happy that you enjoyed the video!
Thanks for making this video. I own 2 Drawmer Ds201 and 1 Drawmer mx40 gates. They are fantastic. Not as useful as they used to be at one time but there's a reason they are racked up by my synths. Panning effects are also a very cool using 2 Drawmer Ds201's and alternating key sources. The MX40 does something special to any percussive element. It adds something to the transients and makes drums more punchy. Love Drawmer products.
So pleased you like the video! Have you seen my previous video about using the DS201 for dawless kick ducking? There’s a third video coming too which is all about using the DS201 for various ‘special effects’ - I won’t spoil it, but they all come from producers I know who were active in the 80s. Your panning effect is one of them (you can also at a pinch set one side to duck, though I tend to prefer the method you mention of unlinking the channels and using two triggers). You can also obv run one trigger through a delay etc etc etc. I really am soooo pleased you like the video, especially being a Drawmer fan :)
Great video! New Order! I just picked up a Drawmer Ds201 because of your videos.
Oh that’s amazing! Pretty sure it will hold its value too. Let me know if the pots are scratchy (ie if you get a scratchy sound when you turn them) as that is a very easy fix. I’m going to do at least one more video on the DS201 about special studio effects, but I might also do a fourth specifically about gating guitars! Thank you so much for watching…
@@DistortThePreamp Congrats on a successful video!!! Can't wait for your next one. Just got my Drawmer today. Haven't set it up yet but if it makes a scratchy sound I'll let you know.
This is so great! Sorry my videos are coming out a bit slowly. I’ve literally got a list of the next twenty and I want to be doing about 2 or 3 a week but I’m slightly struggling to do 1 a week at the moment! That’s for the supportive words though.
When I saw 1986, I knew Bizarre Love Triangle would be mentioned!
Oh my gosh, I was taken back to my youth😮. I saved up months, from my meagre earnings, for a Korg ms20 synth. (I went on to update much later with a Juno and a few others), I’ll have to dust of the ms20 for old times sake, my husband will be over the moon with that 😂.Thanks for this slice of wonderful nostalgia🎉
This is amazing! I have always wanted to capture the emotion of gated chords and failed because of it sounding too clinical. Thanks so much for this video!
So pleased you like it! Your experience is exactly the same as mine - there’s probably more magic in the Drawmers that the points I mention in the bideo( for example the preamps, some slight distortion on the waveforms when the attack kicks in, and the fact the two sides of the stereo are set slightly differently) but they really do sound amazing! Thank you for watching and commenting - I really appreciate it.
You should make sure there’s movement in the chords too or a phaser/flanger can be good
That’s absolutely true. I would probably do that at the mix stage because I’ve run into trouble before when I tracked sounds with slow sweeps and then had to either do a drop in or dupe the part. But slow sweeps are lovely on this sort of thing…
getting a drawmer immediately thanks
The intro synth to Visage’s “The Damned Don’t Cry” uses this effect.
Very cool, I'll be cringing a bit now every time I use an LFO for my gated pads! :)
Hahah! Don’t cringe too much - that’s what a lot of people do ;) If I had to make gated pads in the box I would probably use an envelope tool to, rather than a gate plugin. Either that or find a way of drawing in some kind of volume automation. LFO Tool and Shaper Box are pretty good and both let you trigger off a key. Although they don’t sound quite the same as the real thing…
Cool stuff!! Thanks for sharing
Thanks Brian! Appreciate you watching, and the comment :)
Thanks for sharing this knowledge.
That’s such a nice thing to say! Really appreciate you watching :)
The drawmer made a „Click“ Impulse when opening and sometimes closing which gave the sound an impulse that you couldn’t get from instruments, while new sound
That’s exactly correct - it affects the transient and it’s particularly noticeable on softer sounds :) Reallt appreciate you watching and taking the time to comment. Thanks Murray :)
Man that demo sounds cool!
This is such an unexpected response! A few people have said the same thing and it wasn’t what I was expecting at all. All I can say is that record companies didn’t agree in 1989 😂 Thanks for watching - really appreciate it :)
Cracking job
Very much appreciated!
Thank you for sharing.
You are very welcome!
Using a special device as in the Blade Runner movie I was able to zoom in the secret bass screen and I can see it says:
PLAY SINGLE
I21 Lately Bass
OT: If you like Drawmers, grab a DL221. I guarantee you will love it!!
Hahahaha! Actually ‘C15 LatelyBass’ but I have no idea how you did that! It’s the Yamaha TX81Z which is a vintage FM synth, a bit like the DX7 only much worse. It’s one redeeming feature is that on bank C patch 15 is one of the most amazing bass sounds ‘LatelyBass’ or simply ‘Lately’. It’s been used by everybody and is all over Pet Shop Boys records, New Order, etc. There are a few RUclips videos about it but none goes into the difference playing rather than programming it makes, so I’m probably going to make one.
Also, 100% in the DL221. Such an amazing company!
@@DistortThePreamp It was my lame attempt making a joke. :)))) I own TX81Z and really like it. There is another bass that can be imported into it, originates from DX100 and is absolutely all over Detroit techno and UK house. It's called Solid Bass, similar to Lately but harder. Factory SYX bank will have it: Group 2 Preset 01
Oh sorry! It’s been a long day and I’m feeling really frazzled. Yeah, I know Solid Bass and it’s great. As you say, its a little ‘hardier’ but still really good. However the thing I’ve grown to love about Latelt is what happens when you play it softly - you get sooo much bass. It’s a really good patch to play wirh your hands and get loads of articulation in terms of the hardness of the sound. If I’m lazy I’ll play in a 4 bar phrase and repeat it, but if possibly I always try to track in (to the sequencer) as long as take as possible.
@@DistortThePreamp Agreed! BTW there is another cool "gate" out there. Waldorf Pulse+ (Plus), though mono input. But gives full envelope shaping for some creative gating. It gates from the MIDI which saves a few cables and has LFO controlled stereo panner. As a synth it is VERY beefy. A true sleeper, IMO.
Very interesting… will check out…
all I can say it’s brilliant!
That's *really* kind! I've been slightly overwhelmed by all the comments, but I'm working hard to produce more content... :-)
Bought 2x DS201 (XLR versions) back in 89, they're so useful, even today. The Butterworth key filters are superb for mixing, they can bracket sounds within the mix like nothing else,
- also, I've never had an issue with either unit.
Same can be said for all the Drawmer DL compressors I still have too, and their dynamic noise filter, the DF320. If I want punch I use my dbx units, and I then process the dbx units through a DL241, or 251, to bring back the meat and weight that the dbx process always tends to eat up a little bit.
Those Crimson equalisers are also very underrated, I have a couple of the fully parametric versions, the 3012 ones.
Such an interesting comment! I spoke to Drawmer (the company) before making this video and they confirmed that there were only ever a couple of revisions to the DS201 back in the day which were to do with the unbalanced/balanced connectors, and essentially the unit has been in continuous production since it was introduced with no changes (apart from when components had to be changed because old components were no longer available). I find it hilarious that the only differences between my units are the logo alignment :) As a matter of interest, which dbx compressor(s) do you have? And it’s amazing that you have the 3012 EQ. A producer friend has the Indigo which is like mine only tube instead of solid state and he likes to drive it. As you say, it’s underrated, like a lot of the TLA stuff. I use mine pretty much exclusively for adding 1-2dB of 8k (shelf) when tracking vocals. It’s nothing special, but it does the job fine. Thank you so much for watching, and for commenting!
@@DistortThePreamp Hey there, - regarding the dbx units, my current favourite is the 166A,- I have one earlier model, with the external metal XLR fixing plates, and one second gen, - the second generation sounds slightly cleaner, but that's probably just age more than anything else. I know many knock the lower cost dbx units, but I'm really into heavy Electronica, and for that purpose they are perfect, especially drums, individual or buss. One of my favourite artists/producers is Jack Dangers of *Meat Beat Manifesto,* and I learned in the early 90s that he used an old dbx118 to get a particular drum sound, and it was a sound I really liked, so over the 90s I picked up 2x 118 units myself, - they're essentially the poor mans dbx160vu.
I later heard he had used 166A units on his album *Subliminal Sandwich,* so I had to get a couple. I use all my dbx processors as, essentially, transient shapers, I just really like the process, - but I know many hate it, they find the way they "slam the drums" too much.
I also bought a 1066, probably early 2000s, which I didn't gel with for years, but over the last 10 years or so I've found them quite useful, the trick with the 1066 is to barely let the gain reduction meter show any action, one or two red LEDs showing is all one wants, - the threshold and ratio controls on the dbx1066 really don't appear to follow the markings around each control, so keeping a low Ratio and high Threshold is the only way I've found, personally, to make good use of them, - but set up just right, they can sound very much like the 166A, just a little clearer, - so I now have 2 of them also.
I bought a 166xl, just to see, - absolute rubbish really, - to get the classic dbx action, the compressor needs to work fluidly in *Auto* mode, - the 166xl really craps out in this regard.
so out of what I've got,
1. 166A
2. 118
3. 1066
4. 166xl - avoid at all costs
- but like I mentioned previously, they do suck some of the weight out of the sound, apart from the 118 units, which do, but nowhere near as bad. So, to get the sound I really want out of the 166A and the 1066 units, - I will either follow them with a Drawmer DL compressor, which really thickens the sound back up, or, what is more common, for me, as I tend to work from a top down approach, - I just strap a Drawmer DL251 over the main buss inserts, after an equaliser, and mix into that, while having a 166A, etc set up on a stereo buss drum group, - that way what ever I'm doing with the dbx units within the desk, they're already hitting some of that Drawmer meat, iykwim.
And, as I always say when posting on forums,
- I ain't no professional, just another idiot with enough money to spend on toys that feed my autistic need for sonic manipulation.
love to ALL
Very interesting. I had a 166XL too and it sounded terrible. The only use I ever found for it was to add punch to organ transients and, well, that’s not much of a reason to keep it. I love the dbx sound which as you might know is mainly to do with the fact that the detection circuit works on RMS rather than peak. It surprises me how few people in RUclipsLand understand the difference this makes, but it’s really critical to the way they slam drums and pin a vocal. The 1176 is obviously peak, and don’t get me started on the LA-2A. I think I’m going to make an entire video about how the latter is literally destroying vocals because it’s release time of 15s means that the compressor doesn’t reset between lines. So your drop ins are compressed differently. Blah blah blah. ;)
Sick video, man.
Thanks! Really appreciate the comment :)
Ohhh, New Order, Bizarre love triangle, lovely!😍😍
Yes! I actually still haven’t checked my version against the original, so apologies if some of the parts aren’t quite right. And I think I’m specifically remembering the Stephen Hague mix from a Factory sampler tape - that’s the version that’s burned into my memory, mainly because of the gated arps. It was so fun to remake that I’m thinking I might do live streams whereby people suggest synthpop songs and I program them up on the fly… what do you think?
@@DistortThePreamp Definitely my friend. Great fun idea.
Appreciate this feedback. I’m getting a lot of really nice comments, but I’m definitely going to be looking for a steer from viewers!
Masterclass, cheers!
Thanks Allan! That’s a very kind thing to say! So glad you liked the video :)
Rad, thanks for sharing!
Thanks! Appreciate your and for the comment :)
I really appreciate that you do things by feel and spirit. Like a recreation or homage maybe should be an expression of one's own unique ear and individuality. The Fantasy string's part for example, so exhilarating to hear.
You are such a talented story teller 👍
That’s a very kind thing to say! Thank you :)
Was just about to mention the Shamen, glad you included them too! Big users of the gated sound and guitar-driven synths.
I knew a whole load of engineers who used to refer to using key triggers on the Drawmer as 'Shamen mode'! Did I already make this comment? My brain is addled -- I'm having RUclips upload problems 😣. So the Shamen records I have use the Drawmers on guitars which makes them sound like a synth -- Move and Mountain is a really good example of this. Is that what you mean by guitar-driven synths? Or were they routing guitars through synth filters? Such huge talent.
@@DistortThePreamp I think in live shows they made use of the Roland GR707 as well. But yeah, as soon as I heard your demos of the drawmers my mind went straight to some of their classic tracks.
Oh that’s interesting. I actually saw them when they were still a band called Alone Again Or support The Associates. Even then they were pretty great.
mate you nailed your point, the backing track the colour relevation wow,now i know why i loved synthpop in the 80s . thanks so much .and people think its easy!
Thanks a lot! I’m hoping to do not only more videos like this where I reveal tricks, but some stuff about ‘How 80s Pop Works’. Do you mind if I ask if you’re a music producer? The reason is that I had thought that my content would only appeal to small nice of hardcore musicians and engineers, but I’m getting the impression that it might also appeal simply to fans of 80s music… Whatever your response, I really appreciate you watching. This is a new channel and I’m still finding my feet…
@@DistortThePreamp im a keen amateur lol,i was impressed how you explained an aspect of synthpop, which i never even realised was a thing.i mean i recognise the sound but didnt appreciate the techniques required.ive been playing with synths around 5 years and quickly realised its one thing to have them but quite another to make a whole recording sound good.hope that helps and good luck with the channel.
You’ve got real hardware synths? That’s fantastic! Synth pop is one of the genres that seems impossible until you understand how it’s put together at which point it all becomes very straightforward :) I would be fascinated to know what synths you’ve got :)
@@DistortThePreamp first was a microfreak and td3,various volcas,crave,then a basstation 2 (bet youve already guessed i like acid/techno now lol) then i picked up a vintage jv80 from an opshop for 15 bux,my latest is a behringer edge and am now considering my first contemporary polysynth but am putting it off till im a bit more confident on my other stuff lol.oh and a blackbox sampler.becauuse microfreak has no effects iv got the gas with pedals too hahahaa! oh and drumbrute impact,sr16,but prefer to sample my roland td 17 drumkit.which i bought long time before any synths,wish i knew about midi back then because it doesnt have midi out which i could maybe sequence with my beatstep pro lol.ii clock everything with my blackbox sampling and recording as i go, its very hit and miss but composition is slowly coming together but i find it very satisfying and a great interest.
That sounds like an interesting setup. I particularly like the Edge! Don’t feel you _have_ to get a poly - there’s lots of amazing music that was made on only mono synths. In some ways using chords is an easy way out…
That was really interesting. Subscribed. 👍👍
So pleased! Thank you :)
It's a bobby dazzler of a sound. The first time I heard gated sounds like that was on Strawberry Switchblade's Another Day (1985 incidently) and it blew my mind. So glad I subbed.
Oh amazing! Do you know ‘Since Yesterday’ also by Strawberry Switcgbkade? The whole track is gated at the end of the middle section. Such a cool sound!
@@DistortThePreamp Yes, It does sound gorgeous and it's on the same album produces by David Motion & Phil Thornally. You're doing a fantastic job keep up the brilliant work.
omg! im so happy to see someone who is also obsessed with that new order intro sound. when i was a kid, i used to ask my dad, who was also a musician, “what is that sound?”. he said that it was probably an arpeggiator. i wasn’t able to play with an arp til i was in my late teens. tho i loved it, i knew that wasn’t it. it wasn’t until recently i figured it was a gate. thanks for sharing this! although i think the sound being gated isn’t a continuous pad. to me it sounds like a patch that has a bit of sustain and release, coz if you listen to the record, the last bits of the gated sound sort of dies down, sounding a bit like a delay. so i think it’s probably not a continuous pad. just my opinion. 🙂 cheers!
That’s an interesting observation - I’m going to listen forensically. I actually haven’t put this on for years and did it from memory so, although I’m pretty sure the parts or approximately right, I may also have got the rhythm wrong. Before I listen I’m going to double down on my guess that it’s a continuous sound being gated, partly down to Hague’s production methods. Then again, I’m hearing gates everywhere now - when I was playing the background music against my commentary I was turning the blend (range) knob up and down and suddenly heard the Chariots of Fire intro which I’m now convinced was Vangelis playing his CS-80 through a rhythmic gate with a low blend. I can’t be sure, but the sound is very convincing. Really appreciate you watching and your comment very much!
Just listened to it and I’m pretty sure it’s a gate over chords that change every bar, but with a faint quarter note delay. The reason I think it’s a gate is that I think I can hear that the first stab of every bar has a slightly different attack, and the delay is obvious once you listen to it :) Having said that, it sounds quite different to my version and the version in my head. Amusingly I prefer the sound of my gated pads, at least compared to the version on Brotherhood. I will now wash my mouth out with soap and water 🤣
Fantastic video. I'm only halfway through so far but I'm loving the way you explain this - which resonates immensely with me as also a lifelong (more like off/on) maker of electronic / synthy pop music, having been enthralled emotionally by those wondrous 80s synth-pop gems. For me, growing up in the early 00s, the first thing like this I had was the "Slicer" effect on my Yamaha DJXII Keyboard - it basically did the slicing right (symmetrical patterns only), but with obnoxious clicks at the start/stop. And then my Roland D2 (MC-505 knock-off) Groovebox also had slicer DSP, and the Korg MicroKorg had the arpeggio with the 8 buttons (representing steps you can turn on/off)....in 2015 ish I returned to trying to make this effect with Logic Pro 9's Sculpture software instrument, it had a "groove delay".
When I recently got the Behringer K2 (Korg MS-20), I started using the drum signal as a CV input controlling the LPF (or alternatively, as the gate trigger) and that got me 90% there, I was loving it. Now, seeing your video, I want to do your method which may be a smidge better.
omg you're right, these Drawmer gates are totally available cheaply online! Not for long...
That music sounded new and alive, and it still works now.
I know, right! I It still sounds so fresh 40 years later. Appreciate you watching and the comment.
86 is 38 years ago, thank you very much :P
Hahaha. Quite ;)
Oh l. ok! Math capability!
Bro, what is going on with this channel?
IT'S FRICKING GREAT!
Wow, we live in the best time for information and learning. I'm so glad I came across this. This is gold for anyone getting into synths and hardware. Heck, it's gold for anyone who is in love with understanding how music is/was made.
I'm 50 years old and I absolutely love trying to produce music. Spent more than half of my life playing multiple instruments in bands. Not the best musician but not the worst - I know a few chords. For the last couple years I have been consumed with learning how to mixing music and produce with affordable analog synths. I bought a Soundcraft Signature 22 MTK mixing board... It is slowly changing my life. I also have that Arturia Keystep Pro connected to a bunch of stuff. It's a lot of fun. I could go on and on..... Ha!
Also, I see that Behringer TR3. I have the MonoPoly, RD-8 and the VC340. If I would have never bought that first Behringer synth I would not be on this video right now.
Glad I found this channel! Its really great!
MUSICIANS UNITE, and CREATE!!!!!!!!!!
LETS GO!
Thank you so much for this awesome comment! My main problem is that the videos are taking too long, but hopefully I will be able to solve that soon :) The Soundcraft boards have always been great. You just need the space for it 😂 I often wish I had an RD-8 and will definitely get one. Even when I’m using my Roland R8 I rely on my RD-9 hats but I often really want 808 hats or snare. And samples are *not the same*. Really appreciate you watching and your very, very kind comment which is inspiring :)
Your 80s band was 110% legit! Nice!
I love rhythmic synth patches.
I know, right! Totally hypnotic!
Oh my god, i want a copy of your 80s demo!!! 😍 Your gated sound was its own thing, and the problem about the 80s vs now is that there's a wider range of appreciation of sounds that aren't 100% what they set out to be. I heard emotions in your demo. It was coming from a different direction. It almost trailblazing in that there was a hint of later indie rock
That’s extremely kind! I think the rights to the recordings were owned by somebody else but I’ve considered doing a remake ever since I found the demo tape a couple of years ago. There’s a funny story about a house that I used to own in a famous university town, a bass player in a world famous rock band, and a carrier bag that eventually showed up 20 years later with this demo tape. I literally had to buy a cassette deck and use Izotope RX to recover the audio. At the time I think we made the gated guitar sound using a Yamaha FX500 multi-effects unit and triggering the gate via midi. It wasn’t perfect, and it wasn’t quite the sound we were going for, but it was definitely a mood. Ah, if only we’d had the internet… Really appreciate your kind words, and thank you for watching!
You're so welcome..I have done the exact same process with my cassette demos. And what a wonderful story you shared. I was in the Bay area at the same time, but everything you said there brought me back to that era having musical adventures as such. Only yours sounded more larger scale..but still..man. what a time to have been alive in
So true, so true
Great video. Back in the 90s I had a couple of different Tascam mixers (at different times) which had MIDI mutes on the channels that I used for gating. Although with MIDI being a bit slow, you'd had have to move the trigger sound forward a 1/96th note as to not lose the attack. The Yamaha digital mixers did it really well too with their built in gates. That all said, I'll take your word for it that the Drawmer's the best!
This has been ever so slightly controversial, but I stand by it :) MIDI gates are such a great idea in theory - and I used to use them - but they’re not fast or consistent enough to keep strict time. That’s not necessarily a problem, but it usually is. A few people have been noting that there are “other gates” and of course there are. But those Drawmers are built like tanks, haven’t changed design for 40 years, and are still in production. It’s also the only gate I used to see racked up in ‘proper’ studios. Really appreciate you watching, and for the comment :)
I just wish I could give another thumbs up every time I watch this.
Oh wow, that’s an awesome thing to say! Thank you so much!
I want that watch man! 🤩
Hahaha! It was a present but I think it was a street price of about £30 😂
God i miss that decade.
You and me both. Unquestionably the best decade for music.
Liking the style of your videos - can't think of any other channels out there that gives the background, or a back story that explains why a sound was searched for. Keep it up, think you've got a niche here. Quality over quantity - the views will follow.
That’s really kind and a huge vote of confidence, and that’s exactly what I’m trying to do. Really appreciate you watching and the comment :)
For those who might be a bit impatient the process links are in the description which you can click directly to. Then you can return to the introduction and back story at your leisure.
DAWLESS PROGRAMMING AND GATE SETUP
13:17 Timer starts
13:34 Basic drums
14:15 Setting up the trigger key for the gates
15:04 Gated pads and classic Drawmer DS201 setup
16:15 Moog bass
16:55 Strings
19:34 Fantasy
20:10 Slap bass
20:49 FM bass
21:18 Snare fill
22:30 Orch stab
Seems like this video really took off! There's not enough new wave/post punk synth and production content on RUclips. Thanks for being here and making videos!
That's a very kind thing to say! I've got a very long production list of videos to make but hopefully I'll be able to get on a regular schedule... Thanks for watching, caring, and commenting :-)
Yeah I’m enjoying the different focus of this channel…trying to see the glass half full and all, but it would be so much more inspiring and useful for my personal taste if more synth geek vids weren’t geared to techno bangers and “atmospheric” stuff! I like those things too, just nice to find some variety 😊
Your Dawless setup is fascinating but I'm not sure if I would ever have the patience for it. :) Incidentally, I keep stumbling on videos talking about gating sounds based on percussion. I recently saw the same technique about the Prince song 'Kiss". Hats off for using the NO song as inspiration. No complaints there.
Yes, I know that video and it *really* surprises me as it would have been much easier to gate off a trigger sound that copied the hi-hat rhythm. After all, the hats were programmed on a Linn, right? In my experience although hats have enough attack for a gate trigger the unpredictable decay doesn’t give you enough control when gating. Having said that the Linn hat sound is actually itself a continuous loop with a VCA that opens and closes so now I’m writing this it’s probably fine 😂 You make an interesting point about dawless setups. I’m not recommending them but I certainly work *a lot * faster than I used to when I was programming in the daw. I also like the way that it keeps me in a ‘right brain’ state of mind - I came to believe that working in a daw made me more on an engineer and less of a player/produver. Though who knows 😂 Really appreciate you watching, and the comment…
Back in around 1998 I had great success achieving this effect using the built-in gates on the Yamaha ProMix 01.
Oh that's a great bit of kit. One of my theories about analog gear versus plugins is that all the preamps in the chain make a significant difference in aggregate. The ProMix 01 would have sounded great I suspect.
@@DistortThePreamp Well the gates did an awesome job. It was super easy to assign a gate to a channel and assign a different channel as sidechain, then all the controls were there for attack, release, depth. I was too inexperienced to realize how crappy its EQ was though.
Oh brilliant! Lol about the EQ
“Secret bass” is YamahaTX81Z with the Lately bass patch.
Haha! You win all of the prizes! 🏆 I don’t think it’s left that patch for years 😂 What not so many people know about that patch (unless they’ve got the unit themselves) is how well it responds to velocity. It’s an incredibly articulate sound - soft velocities are full with loads of low end, and harder velocity make it sort of ‘twang’. This is why I never programm it and always play it (albeit into a sequencer). When you see me fiddling about before I take the part I’m not only working out the notes, I’m also testing the right velocity for the song. Really appreciate you watching, and doing the inevitable reveal :)
...or a DX100 playing "Solid Bass"
@@leolovetopartySolid Bass is subtly different from Lately Bass.
@@infindebula interesting. I’ll have to research that. Most people who acquire a DX100, do so 99% for this patch…
Yes it is :)
The gated organ effect in the 70s song 'Won't get fooled again' by the Who was done by running the output of the organ through a synth.
When you started talking about you history in music, i was waiting for a daft punk song to come on at any moment, but it mever did... it never did...😂
Hahaha! That should be in a video I’ve got planned about oscillator sync sounds and aggressive buss compression 🤣 Hopefully the New Order track wasn’t too much of a let down ;)
Two things spring out at me here. First is the first time I heard the gated synth sound was on Visage's The Damned Don't Cry from 1982 (I was 14).
Second is when I started my career in the electronics industry a couple of years later, it was in printed circuit board manufacture and assembly. One of our regular customers was Drawmer electronics. So I probably made and/or assembled some of the electronics and the circuit boards in those 201s in 1985/86 to 1990. If I'd have known then what I was making (I was a huge synth music fan) I would have probably bought one. All hand assembled and soldered together by hand too.
I absolutely love that record and still play it all the time. I considered using it as the example but it’s not as well known. I didn’t know the Drawmers were assembled by hand but it makes perfect sense - I’ve opened all mine up and the build quality is outstanding! Really appreciate you watching and commenting.
Oh I should have mentioned - don’t know if you’ve watched the latest video about synth bass but that’s (obviously) a photograph of the whole of Visage outside Blitz Club right at the top of the video. So not only Steve Strange but John McGeoch, Rusty Egan, a very young looking Midge Ure, the whole gang…
@@DistortThePreamp Yes, I have watched it. That is what led me on to this video. 🙂
Amazing!
It's amazing that thing you described where you can try 1000 different ways to do something, every one of them exactly the same on paper, but its just NEVER right! Then when you find the thing you're looking for and you can't describe why it's right, it just is🤦♂️🤣
So I looked at the manual of the Drawmer Ds201 and it looked like the gate signal is an audio signal that controls the gating and not a gate signal... my Quadraverb also does gating but it gets sent midi signal. But now i'm fascinated by the possibility of drone/noise gated rhythms cheers!! And now i'm looking for a Drawmer DS201.
Yes :) I’ve used all sorts of audio triggers. Very short square waves, but also squares out of a synth so that I can control the gate length. It’s a lot of fun!
Software: Logic x - Step FX - just use the Gate - adjust gate shape to taste - use on any instrument
Yea, I feel like it would sound the same honestly.
To be honest it might sound exactly the same once you've dialled it in. But check out the 'noise solo' at 34:35 on the recent 'The Power of Noise' video. This kind of thing isn't for everyone, but it's a little hard to do with plugins. Not that I'm hating on DAWs or plugins -- I'm 100% in the box for mixing and editing. Really appreciate you watching and taking the time to comment :)
any suggestions on similar devices when a dawmer isn't available?
Absolutely. Depends if you want hardware or plugins. For hardware which is best for real time playing (because there’s no latency) you could have a look at the Boss Slicer Pedal. It’s a slightly different effect but a great vibe. Plus, remember that most hardware including pedals keep their value more than plugins. In terms of plugins for in the box work, of course you can rig up a stock gate and send a trigger to it, but for more fun I’m a fan of the Gatekeeper Plugin which was done by the Infected Mushroom guys. Other plugins like LFO Tool and ShaperBox (both of which I own) do an excellent job of gating from a trigger, but Gatekeeper is a lot of fun and you can pretty much page through presets till you find something you like and then build a track around that rhythm. It’s not like the 80s thing, but it’s pretty creative and inspiration is probably more important than authenticity!
Oh, the good old Fostex Monitors. 😃
Very well spotted, especially since the logo is covered up with black tape! Had them for years and they sound totally fine. I’ve never ever had a problem with my mixes not being balanced and that, I think, is the ultimate test. I think it’s important that producers don’t listen to arguments that imply that better monitors or room correction are some kind of silver bullet that will fix their tracks. I believe the trick is to get real good source recordings at which point everything really takes care of itself and you need minimal processing. Just like the bad old days. Thanks for watching - really appreciate it!
This sounds like a crossover between New Order and OMD❤
Such a huge compliment Colette! I'm a massive OMD fan and will definitely be doing some programming based on early OMD soon... Thanks for watching, and for the awesome comment!
i like your approach! i've been using a boss slicer pedal but all the presets can be really overwhelming and easy to forget which one does what if i don't write it down or take a pic on my phone
That’s interesting to hear. A lot of people think that the Boss Slicer is easier - it’s certainly easier to carry! - but I can believe that it’s a bit overwhelming…
Sounds great! Though having not had hands on one of these myself I do wonder why you can't do it with the built in gate (in Ableton, in my case - it's pretty good in my experience). Mostly just a "I don't have room for more rack gear right now" sort of thought, rather than trying to say anyone is doing things wrong (whatever way gives you the most joy is the right way!).
Edit: I've just tried it, and it does indeed work how I was expecting. I'll give you it doesn't quite have the immediacy of hardware, especially with a patch bay, as I had to: 1. configure my drum machine to send the rimshot channel to a separate output, removing it from the mix output; 2. set up a separate input channel in Ableton from my mixer, with the rimshot channel on it; 3. configure the default gate device for sidechain input set to the channel I just added; 4. play with the settings to make it sound good. Since it's sidechained audio straight from the drum machine which is my master clock, it is perfectly in sync as you might expect.
But once I was done, it did work. Does it sound as good as that hardware? I don't know, your video is my only experience with them. But I can't really tell the difference by my ears...
This is an excellent question and an excellent point. In truth, once you've got the sound it really doesn't sound much different, or maybe not different at all. The same is true for mid-range soft synths that mimic vintage synths with DCOs -- I can't really tell the difference between, say, a Tal-U-No soft synth and the Juno 60. What _is_ different however, as you allude to, is the workflow and the immediacy. I very much enjoy being able to 'throw up sounds' quickly on physical hardware, and that can make a difference in the kind of sounds you get. So with a physical gate like the Drawmer, for example, it's very easy for me to try the hold, try the decay, balance the two, then tune in the range. With plugins this process is a little tricker, but not impossible at all. BTW if you want to experiment, try using an Ableton rack to split the stereo into left and right, rig up a gate on each channel, map the gate controls to macros, but then have an extra macor which changes some of the parameters ever so slightly on one of the channels. I would start with the range, but the hold would be another one. A tiny amount of thise can make a mono sound much wider. So in conclusion, there's really nothing wrong soundwise with processing in the box, and it's a sensible choice. Just FWIW I do all of my editing and mixing 100% in the box. One final note: watch the 'noise solo' at 34:35 on my latest 'The Power of Noise' video where I play the Drawmer like an instrument. The head on shot is live but the side shot is from another take. This is tricky to do with plugins not because plugins don't sound good, but just because of the physicality of throwing knobs and switches around. Really appreciate you watching and taking the time to comment!
@@DistortThePreamp I'm with you! I'm currently watching the noise video...
MIDI mapping parameters to a hardware controller is my usual way around what you say, but yes - while you can get somewhere eventually, just having the knobs in front of you ready to go makes a big difference (one reason I try to have my little studio set up with a default live set with everything mapped, my MIDI router pre-configured, etc).
Oh that’s perfect!
I think I learned about the technique from Mixmaster Morris talking about his 1992 album Flying High which is extensively based on rhthmic gating of samples. Maybe he got it from The Shamen.
Great album - and yes its all over it! Also tons on the Orbs stuff from that period
That’s entirely possibly. Apparently after Move any Mountain engineers used to talk about putting the Drawmer ‘in Shaman mode’ 😂
Absolutely - Adventures Beyond the Ultraworld etc
Super Video ☺♥☺♪ BRO
Thank you! Really appreciate you watching, and taking the time to comment!
You can do this using the stock gate in ableton. All the controls you need are there including the few extras the drawmer doesn't have. The hardware is fun though and at £75 I might grab one. Some further experiments you should consider for a part 2 of this video is adding delay and reverb. Try adding reveb before the gate. After the gate. And before and after the gate. use delay after the gate. I learned a lot of these tricks when I coincidentally covered BLT as well. It's on my soundcloud if you want to have a listen.
That’s a great point about reverb before the gate and delay after - that’s exactly what I do (when I do it). Reverb after the gate just gets too mushy and detracts from the rhythm. The only reverb I add to gated pads in the mix is a very short ‘ambience’ (like the old 480L patch) though even that is often too much for my taste. And bouncing dotted 8s delays can sound lovely on the gated sound. One way to have a bit more fun in the box if you’re not using hardware is to split the channel into left and right (in Ableton you’d use a rack), gate each side from the same key trigger, but have ever so slightly different parameters on the gates. You could even rig up a macro to dial in the amount of variation. This after all is what’s happening out of the box because I never even both trying to get the left and right channels the same, and this includes the range which in effect is the blend. Maybe that’s one of the reasons why it feels like it widens the image? Really appreciate your watching and taking time to comment. I’ll check out your SoundCloud…
Funny. I was thinking of just this song for this type of effect.
Amusingly I did this all from memory and then, once I’d made the video, I tried to find the mix I’d listened to as a kid which I think was a special Stephen Hague remix on a Factory sampler. It sounded very different to how I remembered 😂
i played to your track! :) nice one
Oh awesome! That’s fantastic!
Listen to “Is There Something I Should Know” “New Moon on Monday” or “The Reflex” by Duran Duran. Same pad gated effect in 1983. From Ian Little :
"One of the things that I did was get a pad synth sound, put it through a Drawmer gate on an external trigger, and then have the gate triggered off a percussive part like a side-stick which was already being played or programmed specifically to trigger the gate. Sequencers were still pretty new and cumbersome in those days, so this provided an alternative way of getting a pulsed synth sound, but the type of sound was also very, very different. If it's sequenced, each note is being triggered individually, whereas a pad that is held down for a sustained sound that is then gated and triggered is a totally different animal, because there's no attack at the front of each note other than that provided by the gate opening. The Drawmer was the first gate I used that had frequency selectivity, and that meant you could really isolate the part of the rhythm that you wanted to accent. What's more, the attack and release times on the gate could totally change the character of the pulse that you heard. This was something that I introduced to Nick and you can hear it both on 'Is There Something I Should Know?' and 'The Reflex'; more like an organic version of a sequenced line, being more rounded while boasting a certain degree of randomness."
Excellent point! Well done for finding this. I’m a huge Nick Rhodes fan and the first three Duran albums. This is funny because I normally reckon myself to be something of a Drawmer Gate spotter but I always thought those were just sequences. Also this might be one of the earliest examples since it was either recorded late in 82 or early in 83 and the DS201 was only released in 82. So the unit would have been very recent. And the technique is exactly correct - you trigger of a percussive part like a side stick (or 808 rim shot) and make a played or programmed part specifically to trigger the gate. I’ve also just realised why I might not have clocked it at the time (I’m editing my original answer to you). I have a memory of seeing Nick Rhodes perform Union of the Snake on Toonof the Pops and noticing how his was playing (ie miming) the rhythmic chord part. At the time, and being a classical piano player, I remember thinking ‘How does he do that and keep it so tight?’ Now I realise it was pure stage craft.
Really appreciate your watching and for the comment! About referring to 1986 in the title/thumbnail - really I suppose that was a direct reference to New Order’s ‘Bizarre Love Triangle’ and there was quite a lot of this going on before. Cocteau Twins ‘Heaven or Las Vegas’ album for example, and if course a very famous indie guitar song with an iconic opening that the (also very famous) guitarist explained took them ages because they had to get the vibrato in time whereas in fact he was fibbing and the sound was made using a triggered Drawmer gate. Note: I’m only not mentioning the track by name because I’m going to do a video on it and I don’t want this comment to come up if somebody searches for the song name, but it was done in 1984, produced by John Porter, and I mentioned the band in the opening of my recent ‘Noise’ video ;) Really appreciate your comment!
You should also check out Since Yesterday (Strawberry Switchblade) from 1985. Phil Thornally (the producer who was also actually _in_ The Cure at the time) strapped a Drawmer DS201 over the whole mix for an absolutely iconic effect the end of the middle eight.
btw -- I know exactly how Nick Rhodes did the arpeggios in Rio and I'm considering making a video about that, plus some other basic arp playing techniques. Sound interesting?
@@DistortThePreamp YES!! please.
Can you just program the pad sound's envelope to have a fast attack / slower decay to have the envelope similar to your gate and forget about the gate? and trigger by MIDI?
If you were pressed and you didn't have a gate then this would probably be an okay way of getting a similar effect :-) The reason why it doesn't sound quite the same though is because the sound evolves slightly *under* the gate, so each gate 'hit' is a bit different. This is why it feels a little more organic and less like, say, samples repeating. However, again, it's all about working with what you've got :-)
So you are triggering the Drawmer noise gate with a rhythmic pulse from somewhere to get the chopped sound? Have you seen/tried a Boss SL2 Slicer? Is it doing a similar thing? I don't have space for rackmount gear presently but it seems like it might be a reasonable facsimile in a pedal format. Thanks.
Yes, that’s right. In the 80s you would probably have sent a short, snappy sound like a rimshot as the trigger. Nowadays I’m doing almost the same thing except that my drum machine has a ‘trigger out’ that generates even short pulses that match the rimshot pattern. Modern slicing effects are very similar. There are a few subtle ways in which they are different in that the ‘slice’ usually has a hard release as opposed to a gate which can release more slowly after a hold period, but slicing is a modern take on the old gated effect. How they are different in practice is more to do with how you work with them - with an analog gate you use your fingers and ears to ‘dial in’ the sound, whereas with slicers you tend to rely on presets. Also the trigger-gate method is more ‘organic’ because the trigger timing is never perfect. However, I wouldn’t say a bad word about slicers! Really appreciate you watching the video and taking the time to comment.
BT’s Stutter Edit and more so Stutter Edit 2 has some great manipulation of slices and can be triggered in realtime on a midi keyboard. Can be made to sound very organic or completely artificial. I came upon the drum machine signal opening my gates for pads pretty quickly one i learned about side chaining a gate or compressor. Is it more for your preferred workflow that you use outboard gates or is there a quality that can’t be achieved in the box?
That’s a very perceptive question. The answer is that it’s really *all about workflow*. Of course there are some analog sounds which are hard to replicate in the box, but there are also a lot of DAW sounds that are pretty much _impossible_ to do with analog outboard. The difference is the workflow and you get two advantages with hardware: (1) the ability to dial in sounds using physical knobs and sliders, and (2) the fact that you are forced to commit to sounds which you can’t easily undo. The latter point about commitment is controversial and I will be making an entire video about it. It seems counterintuitive - why would you want to lose the ability to undo? So let me answer that complex question when that video comes out. And of course these ‘benefits’ are balanced against some strong DAW advantages like endless plugins, easy session recall, and snapshot backups. FWIW although I write and produce using hardware I mix 100% in the box and don’t hate DAWs at all - in fact I use two of them. Hopefully this long rambling post is an answer to your question 😂
I still remember when I realized that I could use the gate function 3630 compressor gate to get this... Very funny!
Haha! I sold my 3630 quite recently. It's not nearly as 'dirty' as people make out -- you just need to know how to set it. Unless, of course, you want it to sound 'dirty'. I originally bought mine for about £30 but unfortunately people try to charge a lot more because of the Daft Punk factor.
Great video. Is there anything that comes close in terms of plugins does anyone know?
Thank you! Well let me be the first to say that, honestly, plugins get close to the sound. What’s different is really how you dial in the sound using the physical knobs. plus the Drawmers sound slightly wider because the left and right channels aren’t set the same. There’s also a tiny amount of natural distortion from the Drawmer gates because the attack is so fast (10 microseconds is twice as fast as a single sample in a daw running at 48kHz so the gate being that fast definitely has ‘a sound’) but you can synthesise all of the stuff in the box. What’s harder is just to dial in the sound. I was doing some gates this afternoon and I was simultaneously turning the range with the hold, the hold with the decay, and so on. This isn’t an advert or recommendation either to work out of the box or to buy Drawmers, but the physical workflow definitely feels different and produces slightly different results (at least it does for me). However, as well as stock plugins, check out Gatekeeper by Infected Mushroom which has some really fun presets (that it would be hard to do with an OG Drawmer), and also Shaper Box by Cable Guys which is solid. I have both and, if I had to work in the box, I would prefer Gatekeeper for creative gating.
Nice journey ;)
Thank you! Appreciate you watching and commenting :)
@@DistortThePreamp You're welcome. Have a lovely evening.
🙏
@Distort the Preamp @2:44 This song is amazing ! Do you have it uploaded on RUclips ?
Hahaha -- no I'm afraid I don't! It was done in about 1989 and I'm not sure we even own the rights anymore. Maybe one day I'll negotiate to get them back and release a 'lost' album! Really appreciate you watching and taking the time to comment :)
@@DistortThePreamp Although I know your goal was to improve upon this genre, it's a fantastic song ! I hope maybe you're able to upload it someday. 🤞 🎶 Fantastic video !
That is such a kind thing to say! Thank you!
Could you theoretically build a Drawmer from Eurorack modules such as a filter, an envelope generator and a VCA?
Another great question! Yes, in theory, you could certainly build a Drawmer-style gate from Eurorack modules. The price would definitely be a lot more than a second hand Drawmer (unless you already had the modules) but there are sone other differences: (1) most VCAs aren't nearly as fast as the Drawmer is for the attack. The Drawmer's fastest attack is 10 *microseconds* which id ludicrously fast. So fast in fact that it often adds a click to the sound as it tears the waveform shut. (2) You definitely need separate hold and release controls. (3) The filter isn't important if you're sending a separate trigger. (4) You would want some sort of blend/range control which you could get using a mixer module. All possible and, of course, 'gating' is a core part of CV/Gate old-style programming. Though at the end of the day a dedicated gate unit is probably going to be cheaper and easier to work with :-) Again, really appreciate you taking the time to watch and comment!
This is a fantastic video. Thanks! It might sound a bit niche but at some point I wouldn’t mind seeing how you would work with a drawmer in a smaller scale studio (or do we all need a patch bay?)
Oh thank you so much! It’s funny to have you imply that my studio isn’t small scale - it feels tiny! But the question about patch bays is legit. I think it depends on two things: (1) how many ins and outs your interface has; and (2) whether or not you have any other gear. To be honest, I would always lean towards a patch bay because constantly plugging and unplugging gear round the back is just not very fun. However, you would also need a cheap rack because you can’t be balancing stuff on top of each other - that’s a recipe for disaster. The *only* patch bay I would recommend is the Behringer Ultrapatch PX3000. It’s balanced, supports normalling and half-normalling, is light, and there lots available second hand at prices that won’t break the bank (and it should pretty much hold its value if you decide to sell it). And you should be able to pick up a small 4U desktop rack for next to nothing (although some of my floor standing 10U rack units I picked up for literally £10!). The point about ‘half-normalling’ with a patchbay is that, provided you have enough inputs on your interface, you can do a trick where you simultaneously recorded the ‘pure’ sound *as well as* the sound through the gate. TBH that’s less relevant for gated sounds, but it’s hugely relevant if you are, say, recording vocals through a compressor but want to also take the ‘unprocessed’ sound as a ‘safety track’. Sorry to ramble on ;)
Ramble away! I hope we’re not going to see the prices of Drawmer gates spiral up 😱
@@DistortThePreampYou mentioned available inputs/outputs on the audio interface- I think you were going to say that if you have extra outputs available, you could hardwire those to both the gate inputs and side chain inputs and use your DAW to route tracks to them. DAWs typically let you rename hardware I/O so in the end you’d simply route/send/insert to “Drawmer Gate” and “Drawmer sidechain”. No patchbay, no reaching around the back to require things, at least until you decided you need the I/O for something else.
Yes, exactly! When you do this it’s really important to run a consistent trigger from the daw. That way you can do as many overdubs as you like and the gate triggers are all perfectly in time. Unlike, say, my midi which is a bit all over the place ;)
Hey! Fabulous and inspiring post... Could it be possible re-edit the audio track by lowering the background sequence? There are times when you are barelly heard.
Sorry about that :( Can't re-do the video but I promise to do better next time. This is a very new channel and TBH I don't really know what I'm doing yet. I'll also upload a corrected captions file so at least you'll be able to read what I'm saying! Thanks for watching and commenting -- really appreciate it!
So I enjoyed your video, which I watched from start to finish. I bought a DS201 for some of the same reasons, although I've not had the same lack of vibe from using the stock Logic 9 gate with sidechain in the past (I'm happy to share tracks where I've used it). The issue I have had with my DS201, is that it clicks. My studio is currently packed (and will be in storage for several months), so I cannot check the cabling. I've had a look on slutz and one or two other fora and I'm unsure whether I'll be able to remove the click. I have tried everything in terms of settings and have only been able to reduce the issue - not remove it. Quite annoying as on one track I was going directly into a Lexicon PCM 70 pan delay (in parallel) which meant the delays also had the clicking sound. For me that is the benefit of having the DR201 - sonically I cannot tell the difference (other than the clicking) - it is being able to jam with the filters while the sequence is rolling/recording rather than having to "imagine" what it will sound like once the gate is applied - although I've had great results doing the latter - and also the time saving of recording the entire sound rather that having to go again (as I use exclusively outboard gear and FX).
I think you’re absolutely correct about the advantage of being able to monitor the final sound in real time rather than having to ‘imagine’. About the click though - I would normally have said that you could remove it by slowing the attack a touch, but it sounds like you’ve tried that? So I’m wondering if the attack is broken? The DS201 is so fast that it pretty much tears the waveform when the gate opens which leads to a very natural kind of distortion and hence the click. The way around it (assuming it’s a problem in the mix which it isn’t always) is to slow the attack. The other thing to try - and I apologise if this sounds ridiculous - is to open it up and spray Deoxit on the pots and components. It’s possible there’s some build up somewhere that’s causing a problem. Doesn’t sound like it’s cables. The guys at Drawmer are very nice btw - they’ve been making the DS201 since the 80s and it hasn’t changed so I imagine they’ve seen and heard every kind of problem and I bet they could diagnose it. I really hope you resolve the issue and my instinct is that you will. Those things are built to last. Hmmm. Let me know what happens…
@@DistortThePreamp awesome - thank you - BTW I also have a 241 which I've barely used and I hear it's great on snares 🙂 Thanks for your videos I like your channel and have now subscribed 👍
Oh the DL241 is very interesting. I’ve never tried it but apparently it has some sort of proprietary ‘log level’ detector circuit which sounds like it might be more like RMS rather than peak. In which case I would be fascinated to hear what it sounds like on vocals and guitars because, once you’ve tamed the peaks, compressing those sources is *all about* RMS (or equivalent) detection!
Why not use the sidechain compressor "FMR Audio RNC 1773" instead?
Oh that’s a great question. And the FMR Really Nice is, as they say, a really nice compressor. There are two main answers. (1) First, compressors don’t have a fast enough attack time. The FMR’s fastest attack time is about 0.2ms which is 200µs (microseconds, or millionths of a second) and this is typical of a good compressor. Contrastingly, the Drawmer Gate has a fastest attack time of 10µs so that’s 20x faster. The only compressor which is close to be as fast is the 1176, but even that’s 20µs. (2) Second, compressors don’t have a hold function, just release. You really need a separate hold to get that ‘gated sound’, in fast sometimes you only want hold with then a super fast release Compressors are really designed to let the compression ‘recover’ using a curve. The only way I think you could hack it and use a compressor like the FMR would be to send a longer sound on the trigger so that the length of the trigger worked as a hold parameter. But even then I’m not sure it would sound quite right as gating really isn’t what the FMR is designed to do. Great question though, and I really appreciate you watching the video!
I'd also love to see some details of your Pyramid project for this song.
Oh excellent! It was done from scratch although I used a template so I had tracks pre-mapped to the synths I was going to use, though *all* of the programming was done in real time! I’ve been considering making some deeper videos just about the Pyramid, but I wasn’t sure if anyone would be interested! Really appreciate you watching, and the comment!
Also, I should say that the way I programme the Pyramid for these speedruns is a little different to the way I programme it for actual productions because in those I use Track patterns. Those are a little more complicated and slightly slower and less fluid. But happy to show you both if you would like :)
but what's the difference between using the gate and just using a sequencer?
That's a great question. Probably the main difference is that if you gate an evolving sound like a pad then although the gate is chopping out gaps in the sound the underlying pad sound is still changing. There are some other factors like better timing, better envelope control, but tbh those are probably fixable. The main difference with using a gate is that the underlying sound can continue to change :) Really appreciate you watching and taking the time to comment!
And while your at it you can start selling E's for £20 each like back in the good old days.
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SECRET BASS! 😂 I gotta know!
You’re like the only one who spotted that! Don’t worry, all will be revealed :) Thank you so much for watching, and for caring about the secret bass
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If I am not wrong. I think Bomb the Base have the same gate effect in the song, "Say a little prayer." You have answered my everlasting question. I know the emotion that this effect gives. Funky drummer. The snare might have the same gate effect.
There were two technics I just could never get right in the 1980's. To create that emotion effect (gate) and to make my drums sound less robotic.
I stopped nskjng music back in 1995. Real life. After my wife passing away. I started building up a hardware studio. Almost there. I do have the Yamaha TX802 rack unit. And I have the Drawmer DS201 Gate as well as The Drawmer compressor limiter.
Re: your demo, I think you just had to send a thicker sound through the effect with more bass/mid weight as well as the tone you has
Yes I think that’s part of it. But now I’m older and wiser I realise that there were two fundamental problems with the gate: (1) it was just on/off and there was no envelope shaping (like separate attack, hold, and decay) but perhaps more importantly (2) the trigger was a midi event and midi is just not tight enough. Not only were we crowding the midi with loads of notes at the same time (and remember that midi is a serial protocol so ten events means 10ms between the first and last) but also just the clock itself is sloppy. Oh well, all good though. Of course we didn’t have access to the right producer… ;)
Hello! I'm a music producer and artist from Arizona and grew up on all the same music and many times have wondered about this exact topic....you did an amazing job with this! I have over 80 albums out and now need to buy this! I subscribed and really appreciate these types of videos...I would love more about Eurthymics, The Cure etc....do you know about the old drum machines from that time period? Would love a video on that topic ..thanks again!!!
Hi, thanks for your fantastic comment! Yes, I absolutely know all about the drum machines and production techniques used on all of those records -- it's basically a specialist topic of mine. The wonderful thing about the 80s is that you can group bands with apparently different genres like Eurythmics and The Cure but it still makes sense :) I'm going to be making detailed videos on some of the vintage drum machine sounds and tricks so please forgive me if I don't fully answer your question. But in terms of things that I'm never going to make videos about, here is some info you might find interesting about The Cure. I find it useful to divide The Cure into periods: the first four albums, then the 'solo' period which was The Top and the Japanese Whispers compilation when Smith was also in The Banshees, then everything after. The final period (from The Head on the Door) is pretty much all real drums. For the early period Smith would write using a drum machine but Tolhurst would play drums. However Mike Hedges got some very interesting sounds on the Seventeen Seconds album (which includes A Forest) by using contact microphones on the drums. Without boring you with the science, these make the drums sound incredibly dead and eliminate bleed. That's why the drum sound on that album is so odd, but of course so iconic. Then for the middle period when everyone had basically left the band there is some drum machine stuff like Let's Go To Bed but also some real drums when a guy called Andy Anderson was drafted in. I consider The Top to be a solo album, as are the Japanese Whispers singles. You should also check out an album called Blue Sunshine which Smith did with Steve Severin of the Banshees under the name The Glove which also has Anderson on drums. Sorry if this is too much info... Really appreciate you watching and your comment!
Yes I have every CURE album and BLUE SUNSHINE and obviously DISINTEGRATION is the greatest album ever made....but SEVENTEEN SECONDS has some amazing drum sounds....All l cats are grey has very cool drum sounds also ..did theyuse a BOSS DR55? Is that the right name? AND not sure if you are but my other favorite band is DURAN DURAN...Nick is a genius...the sounds on RIO always blows me away ...would love to know what you think of his work ...every album they ever made was incredible keyboards....MEDDAZLELAND.... MIDNIGHT SUN...anyway....I could talk to you all day! A great idea would be NICK RHOADS video....ps..JOHN TAYLOR is the greatest bass player of all time....
@@JoshMottley Actually unless I’m mistaken (and I don’t think I am) the drum sounds on Seventeen Seconds and Faith are *all* real drums played by Tolhurst but miced using an unusual technique which was ribbon contact mics. These are strips that stick to the drums and are essentially contact pickups so they *only* capture sound from that drum with no bleed. The sound is pretty weird and sounds much more like a drum machine rather than a drum kit. This suited Tolhurst’s playing style because, like a lot of post-punk drummers at the time, he favoured repeating patterns. The producer for both of those records was Mike Hesges and he would have processed the drum sounds quite heavily. So I’m not sure there were actually any drum machine sounds used. However if you want to get that sound the easiest way is to use a sampling drum machine. btw the drum machine that was used on Disintigration was the Roland R8. I have one and you can see it on the right of my keyboard. It’s a sampling drum machine but has a lot of secret sauce one you figure out how to use it. Most of the time the kick and snare sounds you hear on my programming speedruns and performances are coming from the R8 :)
@@JoshMottley And, yes, I’m a huge early Duran fan! Rio is a very good album, especially for a _second album_! Rhodes claims that a lot of the sounds came from a Jupiter 4 but I think he is misremembering and most were from a Jupiter 8 because, apart from anything else, the Save a Prayer sound is a preset! Very well put together sounds! And John Taylor’s parts are very good on that album.
That's crazy....I thought he created that patch for Save a Prayer...I was assuming thou....now I want a Jupiter 8...lol