Uncomfortable truths about going DAWLESS // Is it even worth it?
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- Опубликовано: 11 май 2024
- Uncomfortable truths about going DAWLESS // Is it even worth it?
Interested in purchasing any of the gear in this video? Below is my artist pick of some of my favourite DAWLESS gear / gear that I've used in the past ►bit.ly/3AHVbCp
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Is DAWLESS just a big oopsie? It might be for you. Hopefully this video helps you figure out what's right.
0:00 Hello
0:26 Let’s talk about DAWLESS
0:39 The 2 DAWLESS camps
3:12 Money / time consumption
7:22 Addiction or creation?
8:19 Bobeats' take on DAWLESS
10:33 More DAWLESS realities
11:08 The challenge of keeping DAWLESS music interesting
12:21 Everyone’s going to think that you’re a DJ (lol)
12:49 DAWLESS solutions!
13:51 Rent before buying!
14:46 Reasons to use DistroKid as your music distributor
Huge thanks to Bobeats for your wise words in this video!
Here's his channel ► / bobeatsmusic
Midlife Synthesist puts out some great synth stuff too:
► / themidlifesynthesist
Stream my Music:
►hyperfollow.com/lkmusic
Other Related Videos:
►Discussion with Midlife Synthesist: • “Does Gear Matter?” - ...
►More about the Digitakt: • Saved by the Digitakt ...
►How to deal with GAS: • Victim of GAS? // A Gu...
►Pioneer RMX-1000 in action: • Live DAWLESS Indie Hou...
►More about DistroKid: • Release Unlimited Musi...
SOCIALS:
►Patreon: / liamkillenmusic
►Discord: / discord
►Tiktok: / liamkillenmusic
►Instagram: / liamkillenmusic
BUSINESS INQUIRIES:
►liam (at) liamkillen.com
#dawless #dawlessjammin #synths
Shoutout to (at) Alliebrowniest for the awesome animations! :-) 
Видеоклипы
Stream my Music:
►hyperfollow.com/lkmusic
Other Related Videos:
►Discussion with Midlife Synthesist:ruclips.net/video/J3a85i1m4H4/видео.html
►More about the Digitakt: ruclips.net/video/SBnT9bfMH0I/видео.html
►How to deal with GAS: ruclips.net/video/PPtDW2f6aVM/видео.html
►Pioneer RMX-1000 in action: ruclips.net/video/OP2qYP-CxSA/видео.html
►More about DistroKid: ruclips.net/video/OGrT-jA-XPo/видео.html
Checkin it out.
verified danko. Nice dude. grooving vibes.
DAWless is okay, using DAW is okay, being productive is okay, not creating music at all and just collecting gears also okay, whatever bring happiness and pleasure to yourself through music or musical instruments 🖤
In the end that’s exactly right
Give this one a gold medal
I definitely mainly use music making as therapy these days, helping me survive the day job etc. For me the thing that makes me power up Protools is compositional control, and this would explain why you can do more elaborate drops etc as mentioned. Compositional control was something I realised I was lacking during my music education, and so I actually reverted from fully DAW based (with some hardware) to making ideas 'DAW less' because that is creative for me, and then reaching for the DAW if I think 'yep this is a track that deserves to be polished', so essentially, a lot of age and gear swapping about later, I've found my creative space in my modular and drum machines but almost 'project manage' the tune in a DAW when its gone as far as it can. Main caveat here, is that Ive definitely ruined some good ideas using a DAW, but me being rubbish shouldn't put others' off :)
This wins the musical internet.
I agree. 😊
I used to make music in a daw, but my main issue with that was 'too many options'. I found myself going through endless presets and plugins without actually making something. Also, I have to stare at a computer screen all day for work. I don't want that when I'm decompressing from all of that.
I love the limitations of a dawless setup. It forces you to commit to a set of sounds. Does it get me commercially viable pieces of music? No, but that's not why I'm doing this.
I totally agree. I simply wouldn't make music if I had to use a DAW. DAWless all the way.
That’s exactly it- it pushes you into the experimental realm
This is what discouraged me and ultimately chased me away from making “electronic music” in the late 90’s/early 00’s. The endless presets and mouse clicking of a DAW ended up being soul crushing. I just went back to DJing which was much more interactive and immediate. Ironically, DAWs and laptops slowly took over the average DJ’s workflow too lol.
THIS. but what i like to do sometimes i put limitation on myself in the daw, like only use a certain 5 instruments/vsts to give the limitation effect, but in all honesty i just feels good to turn knobs and faders (tho yes you can get midi controllers with them)
That's what I love about the vintage classics; you turn them on and you'll get instant gratification. No firmware updates, no crashes. Pure fun.
Camp 2 here... I work all day as an analyst in front of a computer with 2, sometimes 3 monitors all day everyday at a global manufacturer company. The LAST thing I need when I go home and relax in music making is a 4th monitor to watch. Dawless is my happy place, my state of zen, my refuge.
Yeah that's fair.
+1 !
I like Bos take on this. Dawless should be about performance and playing live. I think of myself as a one man band, not a DJ or producer. I like to watch people perform dawless in the same way as I like to watch guitarists, bassists and drummers. Part of the problem is that electronic music is thought of mainly as DJ music and performance is not really considered outside people who are already sold on the dawless jamming thing.
Absolutely
100%
Yeah, people come and see my studio: ah you are a DJ!!? 😓
@@el_dani drives me nuts.
Totally agree. It’s much more satisfying to see people play real instruments, turn knobs, and use learned piano skills.
I played a small 4 track set for an event at my workplace a few months ago. It was my first gig, and do you know how many of the 200-ish people realized my music was original? Only 2, and they were other performers. Literally everybody else thought I was just spinning songs someone else had created. It made me realize the DAWless is more of a thing I do for me, rather than to impress others.
Haha sounds about right lol
@@LiamKillen I guess the positive is that I was good enough to convince people that I was legit 😂
Yeah
About making music more interesting and less loop-based, the easiest way I've found to solve that is to hum a song idea into a voice recorder first, like a phone or something, to work out the overall song structure and progression. Then use that as a framework on which to actually build the song. I end up with a lot of the song composed before I ever touch any gear, and this gives me much better results overall. Instead of a looping pattern, each section flows into the next and the song actually goes somewhere.
Yesss great idea!
Check out Beardyman
@@2silkworm Have been following Beardyman since 2007. He's fantastic.
Ima try this
Exactly the way I use to compose my stuff!
For me creating music is all about getting into “flow state”. It’s much easier for me to achieve that with tactile gear. The only DAW environment I’ve found that I can reliably find “flow state” with are some iOS apps in which I can live trigger and tweak on the fly through the touchscreen. I also see a pretty clear distinction between “creating” and “producing”. I mainly create in a DAWless environment and produce a finished product on a DAW.
That’s a really good point- man so many comments in this video. Thank you!
I can totally relate to this comment. Well said.
Your points on dawless pros v. cons were like you were reading my mind. On gearlust, I have a loose rule: make sure I max out my gear before buying new gear. What helps is only watching demo videos about stuff I ALREADY HAVE. It's the greatest failure (for me) sell or ditch something and then realize it's more than capable for my needs, I just got impatient. The most creative solutions come from trying to making gear do something it wasn't designed to do. The DJ turntable for one.
Yes to all of this!! Thanks for watching :-)
"Going DAWless" is (generally speaking) just gear addiction. A never-ending pursuit to acquire the perfect setup. The perfect setup is always one or two purchases away. Until you get there and realize it's not perfect yet, and you start craving the dopamine hit that comes with buying a new toy again. First step to recovery is to admit you have a problem...
I think there’s a lot of truth to this.
I'm not listening...LALALALALA
For me, the prospect of sitting at a computer to make music, is a real turnoff. You can totally make releasable tracks DAWlessly. The Deluge, for example, is an absolutely superb song in a box device.
@@DavidDeLuge except it lacks any mixing tools and you can’t flexibly route the effects not to mention the very dull synth engine.
There’s also lots of MIDI interfaces that give you a tactile hardware feel like the Push 2 or Maschine… It always seems like people paint this picture that making music on a computer is this very tactless, soulless process that has you staring at a computer monitor with a mouse and keyboard and it’s only that way if you make it that way.
@ClemFandango People resell VSTs all the time. I've bought several "used" VSTs, what the fuck are you on about?
a 4-track recorder and a sequencer capable of sequencing full songs are two things that turned DAWless into a complete viable workflow for me instead of just a fun time-waster. My workflow is not very smooth by most standards, but with the right attitude what a lot of people might see as "friction" can actually give you "traction" in the music making process. also, beyond the technical limitations, the change in mindset required to accomplish anything with a tape machine has been helpful even when i do venture back into the DAW, like writing complete completely ahead of time before you record anything, and planning things out on paper before you start, and the general willingness to leave "mistakes" in and edit as little as possible.
Another thought provoking video. You are good at making us think. I just now realized that I have spent over 40 years (on and off) making music for myself as a way to develop various skills and give me a space to have absolute focus and control. My goal going forward is to ‘show my work’ more and skim the best bits to share. Thanks for another round of electronic music therapy! 😂 🙏🏾
Always appreciate you watching! :-)
I use both. DAWless is for enjoyment of making music. A DAW is for a targeted effort. My day job pays the bills more than adequately. Music is for a release. If it’s a job for you, do what you got to do. I spend enough time in front of a computer.
Fair assessment
Great video - agree with the train of thinking and points. Really agree with Bo's comments on product and creativity.
I think that the 2 perspectives are just perfect
The main drawback of dawless is the neck pain from looking down all the time. But most people who grew up with DAWs don’t have a full appreciation that music is an aural medium, not a visual one. It’s important to experience music without the visual feedback of piano rolls and audio clip timelines and spectral depictions of the frequency band. Your eyes often mislead your ears. So a sore neck and shoulders is the cost.
Haha it’s true eh!? Gotta do your stretches!
This can be true but a DAW can have similar drawbacks. I once had a very bad repetitive strain injury that ran from my shoulder right into my hand from using a mouse. I do need to be careful looking down when working dawless, but at least I've never had RSI from working this way.
I have never heard of this myth. Anyone with a brain will set up their gear to be comfortable, for hours and hours. That goes for hardware and computers..
Thanks for sharing your story .. journey .. always nice to get to know the essence of the person you are tuning into .. as you share more details of some of the things that make you tick .. inspire and keep you on track .. thanks as well to Bo for your comments .. your videos are always informative Liam .. cheers to everyone ... !
Thanks as always for watching!
Can’t even say what it is exactly, Liam, but over the last year you became my favourite SynthTuber :)
Really like your personal and open take on things. And that you don’t need to pretend that you know things better, rather that you’re just on that journey like all musicians :)
Keep it up mate!
Wow I really appreciate that- yes! Still lots to learn and loving the process
What a very nice discussion of DAWLESS topics and a great commentary from BoBeats. Excellent.
Thanks Jeff!
This was great. Very new to music making in general, but can already relate to a lot here…especially the addictive nature of the gear. It’s like someone pulled back a curtain to a whole new world of information that I just want to learn about and have fun with. Glad I found your channel. And shout out to KiNK for sharing a little jam on an S-1 mid flight, really lit the fire
Thank you for watching! K!nk is dope!
Fantastic video. I agree with many of your points. Best video I've watched from you honestly.
Hey I appreciate it 🤝
Really great video, and Bo’s philosophical musings added a great layer of depth to this piece.
Funnily enough, it was through long lockdowns that I purchased a small selection of hardware (a synth, a sampler and an electric keyboard). It was very much driven by complete burnout from working on a computer all day (in the same room!) and then having zero motivation to sit in that same chair and look at that same screen and try to be ‘creative’ after a full day of work.
Just that small differentiation between the screen and using hardware meant that I at least was interacting with music, playing and exploring. Ultimately I haven’t really fleshed out any of my hardware jams into finished tracks, but I’m ok with that. The option exists to always track them into a DAW, and this maybe the eventual workflow.
anyway, thanks for the thought provoking video.
My pleasure- thanks for your take as well!
I'm an unapologetic noodler. I've spend tens of thousands of dollars over the last 3-4 years building a nice little home studio that I can mess around with my gear in. I enjoy it. I enjoy deciding to tear it all down and set it back up again in a different configuration. I enjoy the challenge of trying to come up with the "perfect" cabling setup that gives instant access to every device from the master device (currently a Force). I enjoy NOT having the pressure of finishing music, or releasing music, or being on a timetable to create music.
I do not enjoy using a computer for any of this stuff. My day job has me in front of a computer for 10 hours a day, the last thing I want to do when I get home and have an hour to spare is to open a computer up. Home is a computer free zone for me.
It wasn't always like that though. When I started making music ~99/2000, it was all on computer. Then I bought some hardware and used that via the computer too, but it never really felt right to be honest. It felt like I was wasting the hardware by pushing a cursor around a screen. During this period I became a qualified sound engineer, had some releases, did some DJing, and then grew to dislike the fact that if I wanted to do it for a living, I would need to go down the "creative for a living" approach with music, and I hated it, so I decided to look elsewhere for my career.
Now I'm in a position where I can comfortably afford to spend tens of thousands of dollars on gear that I use 3 times a month, and I get so much more enjoyment out of it than I ever did when I was releasing things and DJing. Some people spend that on booze, smokes, pot and working on cars. I spend it on providing myself with the opportunity to engage my tired brain in a different way, without pressure for results, and without a computer screen in front of me.
It's worth every penny.
Appreciate all of your input here! 😊
Very insightful stuff here, thanks for writing all of this!
I work in tech. I’m drowning in tech. I love tech almost as much as I love music. Learning to build sounds and create a generative ambient piece that almost has a life of its own makes my life at the intersection of analog synths and music nearly perfect.
Dude, im really getting in love with the excellent audiovisual product you made. Jaja. I learned a lot from you. Thanks
Awesome, thank you! Thanks for watching :-)
I never intended to go dawless, I've always been a guitar/bass player and it was a very gradual shift. First it was a synthesizer to record some keyboard parts. Then a couple years later it was e-drums so I could write drum parts. Then another year later it was a drum machine so I could jam on my own. Then I realized my old looper pedal had a midi input and could be synched with the drum machine. Then I realized I could connect the e-drums to the synth and arrange the pads as a controller. That's where the GAS really set in. Then it was a bass synth with a foot controller, a POLYsynth with a keyboard controller, a synth a disappointing synth with a vocoder (looking at you JD-XI). Then I got a dedicated sequencer which FINALLY let me pump the brakes. That's the main advice I can give a dawless jammer, get a dedicated sequencer and write SONGS. If you're just using the unit sequencers you'll be looping the same few bars forever.
Thank you for this addition! :-)
Yo your video production is really good, love the thoughts offered here too, it's surprisingly hard to find broader information videos on Analog/Digital music hardware that aren't about a specific device.
I appreciate that and i'm glad to help :-)
This video was so helpful for me. I am 52 and shifting my life focus from writing to music. Your point about how long it takes to learn a new piece of gear compared to learning to play a new instrument you already know how to play was informative. I'll stick to learning to play and hopefully get into some good collaborations later.
So glad that it's helped! :-)
Cheers-
Awesome video Liam … you literally made a video applicable to any flavor of artist … well done
There’s a spot for all of us 😊
The way how I see is that in the 'dawless' world you are essentially connecting everything with MIDI and/or CV. There is nothing wrong with these methods, but the "APIs" of the devices itself can be a limitation. In a fully integrated digital environment the level of control and integration of components is simply magnitudes higher.
I see your take
Really a nice video. Thank you!
It’s my pleasure !
Bo talks really smart things about overwhelmed society, good thoughts!
Yup and I think he's right.
@@LiamKillen definitely
After being out of the game for 13 or more years of making music, I've made my come back and started out by planning to run DAWless based on finance. We live in a day and age where it can be great to do so. Funny to think that at some point having a good DAW program and serious rig will be an added bonus! All the music I have put up on my channel is DAWless production and have to say I am impressed at how well it has worked out so far. Great vid brother! 👊🧡👍
Thank you and good luck on your journey!
@@LiamKillen Thx so much. It feels good to be back at it again. Great channel! ✌
Long ago I tried to do music and got lost into Ableton and the VST sea of plugins and libraries.
A few years later I'm starting to stay in touch with music again, but this time I want to try and go dawless and center on music and creativity in a dawless place where maybe less is more.
If you have tons of virtual plugins and synths, you end mastering none of them sometimes.
If I buy some gear, I will try to master that one. Loved the video and people thoughts on this.
Keep the good work in the channel.
This is ia great approach! Master one before moving onto the next at least.
@@LiamKillen Yeah, anyway I feel like if you don't know just a b8t about playing some instruments (keyboard or guitar for example), is a lot more difficult to make nice music.
Its easy to fall on buying a lot of gear_toys without sense and thinking that will let you create music like by magic.
Really good topic and video, your channel is a gem. I'll always remember going into a shop and getting a groovebox demo and the guy said to me: this is great but it doesn't do everything, I like working with the limitations of the machine. I did not understand at that moment what he meant, but really it is what it is, you have to be creative to make things work in a dawless set up, and that's why I love it... As long as you don't buy all the gear to solve that problem 😄
Very well said- thanks for being here!
I enjoy DAWless jamming because it is tactile, allows me to interact more immediatelywith the sounds I'm creating, and especially lets me be creative outside my home. I want to level up my DAW skills, too, but I see them as different pursuits as Bo Beats said. Once I've mastered my gear I'll get around to figuring out how to record/produce the results.
I’m going hybrid myself 😏
@@LiamKillen There's a time and a place for everything, right?
thankful for this video. coming at a perfect time for me. the obsession with gear acquisition can come on quick and stealthily. and this can easily dive into unhealthy financial habits that dig us into deeper money holes and create financial stress, especially if you are relying heavily on credit cards or "pay later" to acquire dear. i noticed that workflow is tough for me and it may be because i have too much gear to work with and toggle together. also, i'm generally feeling pulled to return to analog, acoustic instrument learning and focus in on music craft rather than tech intellect..
Some gear is ok but when you’re asking questions about whether or not it’s a problem- chances are that it is
I’m a li’l mad that the algorithm didn’t bring me to your channel, but I’m extremely pleased that Mattoverse getting me interested in OB-4 DID BRING ME TO YOUR CHANNEL. I’ve been doing this kind of stuff to some degree for over a couple decades, and I feel nice and comfy (and entertained and educated) hanging out here, with your vibe and videos. Thanks, Liam 🇨🇦 ✌️
P.S. Glad to hear you’re hosting events in your area; fostering IRL (or online) community with likeminded gear aficionados, etc. is super. Some synth meetups in the Philadelphia, PA, USA area ca. 2017-2019 got me through some tough times and helped me get reinvigorated creatively and socially; helped me to expand, and share from, my experience and knowledge; helped me meet new people, make new friends, and connect; helped me to satisfy the urge to jam and feel like I was performing music with other people (even if it was more laidback and hanging out than “performing”); and helped me try a bunch of gear, only to be able to go home feeling content with only what I already had and not wanting more! 🥰
Thanks for tuning in Keith! Always appreciated
Bobeats take on this is so perfectly SPOT ON! ❤
For me, dawless was something inspired by a need to make music when away from my computer.
What i have discovered about dipping my toes into the dawless experience is a more carefree and playfull experience.
I only have a Microfreak and a Circuit Tracks for now, and it very fun for me.
For me its like picking up my guitar and goofing around and having fun.
For more complex composition, and complete songs i still prefer using the daw. But i now use my synths with that too.
So for me the gear is both something to play with on the go, AND its additions to my musical palette in a daw setup.
Yes I think he tapped into something there for sure
However we express our sense of being alive, be it playing ukulele, a biscuit tin lid or soft-synths in Logic. Appreciate the miracle of the gear you have in your collection, we’re very very fortunate.
We absolutely are.
I've been a musician for 25 years and have been slowly making my way into a dawless setup over the past 6 months. The whole thing is really attractive to me as someone who uses a computer all day for work (and sometimes more than all day, ugh). I was always turned off by the clips/scenes paradigm and the DJ thing doesn't appeal to me whatsoever. Everything BoBeats said was super on point, and you provided some great context here. Definitely just subbed your channel and will be checking out some of your videos on gear I have my eye on. I am familiar with the gear lust, nothing new to me, and I feel that has been a strength on my journey. I do enjoy the research and just catching a vibe with some gear. I feel myself landing with the MC707, and I think that will fit what I'm trying to do at least to get started, and what's within my price point. If you have tons of cash it's honestly kind of easy to sound clean and epic, but for me? Well, I don't have tons of cash. lol. At the same time, that does create a kind of grassroots DIY vibe challenge that is wholesome and indie, which to me is where the purest inspiration and innovation comes from. This is also true historically. Anyway, thanks for going for it with this. I bet for some people these truths are "uncomfortable" but honestly I found them to be reaffirming with the whole set of reasons I have been attracted to this musician subset.
Sounds like you fit right in 😏
Great video Liam, im getting back into creating music just for me, i was fully DAW around 2000, but now im thinking with all these new bits of kit and a lack of space i just need some sort of groove box, but small form and preferably runs on batteries (ive been watching alot of mc-101 and NUCircuit videos), so i gurss my question to you is this.
What is your desert island one peice of kit, that would give someone like me enough options and interest without having to build a huge setup? Im off to watch more of your content 👍🏼😁
Great question. Right now I’m really into the digitakt but I’m also going to be receiving an octatrack which I think will be taking over in terms of capabilities
Amazing timing of this video. Sometimes I wonder if I should spend all my money on this gear but there’s just an indescribable thing that truly is a “IYKYK” feeling. I’ve got XONE-px5, RD8, drumbrute impact, J-6, 404 mk2 and thinking about the Syntakt next.
Syntakt seems great! Haven’t really checked it out yet
Working with limitations is the greatest inspiration your ever get. One nice synth, one DAW.....pretty much all you need
More than enough!
Hey you might like my Discord: discord.gg/xj8J2xJuBP
Very interesting video!! I love being dawless! When you are just using your ears and vibing magical things happen that just don’t happen for me on a daw.
Staring at a grid and clicking a mouse doesn’t inspire me at all and loses the vibe. I have however been using a hybrid workflow, where the daw is used for mixing, adding some finishing touches and stuff.
Some of the greatest electronic music was created with very minimal equipment back in the day.
True! Look at J dolls and the sp 303
Lol I dilla
God damn…j dilla *****
@@LiamKillen ... are you showing us that you don't know you can edit / delete your own comments ?
If so , click on the 3 dots next to your own comment, then select option.
👍✊
Amazing vid!
🍻
all my best shows where i hit everything perfectly on my array of gear, everyone thinks i was djing like you said. nothing off beat or no mistakes made it seem like the whole thing was djing. now im kind of disillusioned in the whole dawless thing and thinking of going back to daw and just pretend to use plugins as real gear with midi controllers and just use all the techniques i learned in dawless to make it more fun. Also, that bit from bobeats must be the most spot on profound moment ive ever seen of him, great stuff
I think hybrid is the way
Great video, thanks. Subscribed.
Appreciate it! 😊
Spot-on in your assessment. And your video is very aesthetically pleasing. I could do without the comedic cut ins , But tastes are different.
Personally I’m constantly in between finishing songs on a Daw vs having fun dawless
DAWs are also a great way to create something- in many ways better than DAWLESS!
So. I come from a band background and so when we eventually got into performing electronic music live we are already dawless. Albeit we do a lot of background work before performing live we do everything without a DAW. I've found our biggest setback is just being shit at hitting stuff properly and/or on time. I'm a terrible keys player so that doesn't help. I will say your videos help a great deal. Please keep it up Liam. (as an aside, I don't know exactly where I'm going with this. I'm pissed and blah blah blah blah)
Yeah DAWLESS is more or less better for live IMO.
WUDDUP LIAM!
✌️ 👋
Thanks for inviting me 🙏
Thanks for doing it Bo! Really appreciate it 😊
Fantastic video! I think I fall in all 3 camps LOL. When I need to produce something for a client on a deadline, I think it's silly not to use a DAW. However... When I'm making music for myself, I feel really inspired by my favorite pieces of hardware. I don't care that it takes way longer to finish a track because I'm having a blast the entire time. Having started out DAWless on a crappy 4 track tape deck as an 8 year old, it kind of feels like getting away from my work environment and going home to play with a friend :3
I totes get that!
Hi!
Thanks for your video, i especially loved when you spoke about building drops with dawless!
Do you have a specific video about that topic?
I will this Thursday 😊
@@LiamKillen ooh nice!
Great video again
Thank you!
Very helpful vid. For me DAWless seems like my only good route to perform live.
I’m very comfy at Ableton Live but trying to have fun with Ableton in a live set is just annoying, and any kind of discomfort will be on display for an audience. In my case, syncing pattern changes between an A4mk2 synth with the session view requires a max for live device and it doesn’t work consistently enough. So I figure grab a sampler and settle for an imperfect/incomplete/unpolished sound, probably more interesting at least.
Glad to help + thx for your addition!
Great points! Gear lust can definitely cause a lot of financial pain.
One “positive” to hardware is that certain bits of gear tend to hold their value (and in rare cases even increase). If something doesn’t work anymore you can sell and it’s not entirely money down the drain.
VST’s and plug-ins can rarely be resold if you find yourself not using them.
Do your research, buy used, and pay cash (not debt)!
Very true about software! If you’re smart about reinvesting you can save a lot of money and time
Another great video Liam. As a fellow montrealer and dawless jammer, I wish we could have a meet up one day to play music! Thanks for your wonderful content.
I’ll be at mutek today and tomorrow zoomin around trying out GEAR!
Camp 2 person here. Love it.
Keep on campin in the free world!
Thank you! Now I am gasing for a good studio chair because I'll be sitting in front of my Daw a lot more.
Clutch chairs are pretty dope
Glad you made this video. You prolly saved me tons of dollars.
Yes - and I clear out my gear a lot too, so I reinvest,
Such a real and honest take on this whole dawless realm. As a 1,2, and 3, I find it endlessly entertaining. I personally feel it adds a certain magic and that's why I collect. It's therapeutic and feels like what I wanted music in the future to be composed on. That's why I've spend $6000 on gear in the past 6 years hahaha
It's def an investment! Haha.
I really couldn't agree more with you! ..... Also get the RMX1000. This was the piece of gear that released me from DAWless monotony. You can also load a few samples on it... Yes I know you're already using a sampler, but having a few vox adlibs on the RMX is very fun.
I saw that! I did a quick review on it as well- I can see how useful it is!
That review will be out soon…ish
I've been dawless for many years now. Like you, I started as a bassist/keyboardist. I still am first and foremost, but I too got into production and electronic music. Although I do use Ableton, FL Studio, and GarageBand for outside projects, I mainly like the hands on approach of dawless. Also, when I'm dawless jamming, usually have a iPad running recording whatever I'm doing.
Good move with the I pad props
Are we gonna get a build ups n drops vid? Great video! I’m in the dawless jammer/trying to record here and there and full fledged gas camp lol….(huge tip; don’t get into eurorack)
I’ve got a video about the RMX 1000 in the q!
This was great and i agree wholeheartedly. I have quite a lot of hardware but also have a DAW setup. The hardware is down in my studio in my garden, whereas the DAW setup is in the house. I still spend at least a third of my time in the studio getting some piece of gear to communicate with a different piece. It's for this reason that i spend more time sat in front of my DAW, it's so frustrating - but once the hardware starts communicating, it's a lot more fun than tapping keys and moving mouses. The point you make about it being a lot more expensive is also true. I bought a lot of my hardware from e-Bay or secondhand stores and a lot of it for really good prices. It's hard to find bargains now that everyone has wised up and so i rarely buy gear anymore, VST's are so much cheaper.
Use midi controllers with your DAW and minimize the use of keyboard and mouse? That's the route I'm going.
For me, as a Sample Based Beat maker and after messing with that Dawless for 3+ years, Ain't gonna lie' it was fun, but I ended up going to a hybrid set up simply because of desk space and workflow
I got tired of waking up, heading to the office/studio and re-arrainging everything like every week LMAO.
Purged like 4 times then bought something else, end up with something that takes a little longer learn than usual mainly because of my work schedule (shout out to all my warehouse beat makers lol)
Tried to grab stuff with smaller footprint, ended up selling them because I have big ass hands. Can't hit the knobs right.
I've owned so many OG samplers and synths it's Nuts.. like why do I need 3 Roland/boss SP's, 2 MPCs and 4 Synthetisizers?? 😂
When I went back to a daw, I had to relearn it cause I went all in on g.a.s. so much( and upgraded to Ableton 11 from 10.1) I forgot some of my usual workflow 😂😂
In conclusion. I'm happy I tried it out for that long, but there's a lot of headaches with trying to keep up with G.A.S.
I'm happy I settled somewhere. Everything I have now has an important role in my set up. I'm now a minimalist
Thanks for your input!
Octatrack would be a decent substitute buildup machine too, IMO. Builds are on my list of "things to build next" for this rabbit hole of a machine
Rabbit hole ... the alternate definition of DAWLESS lol
@@LiamKillen we're forever chasing the bunnies and wouldn't have it any other way! Rabbit > Mouse lol
someone has become one of my favorite synthtubers here ;p
My lord thank you!
I love DAWless jamming, there is no end product, it’s just creating and jamming
The exploring part is one of my favourite aspects of making music in general
If you record it you may have one of the best songs ever made.
@@stephenroldan5107 jajaj totally true!. How many times i thought "...if I'd recorded this" while exploring, but I'm just enjoying myself tweking knobs
I bought my daughter who is soon to be two. PO 33 A akai mini play and a 25 dollar mixer and malwakiee m18 speaker. CASIO AINT GOT NOTHING ON THAT😅
@@ricporter3710 Parent of the year 100%
Dawless, i.e. using hardware to create and produce music, is a physical process, where once you master (learn) the movements of the flow, they can become second nature and can be performed through muscle memory and not require processing power from your brain. On a computer, you're always processing via the mouse and keyboard which require brain process power, i.e. a mouses position is not in a fixed location, it is a virtual location, it can be anywhere at anytime preventing you from developing the muscle memory. Ableton Live is not really a live performance tool until you add a controller, like the Push, giving you the fixed location for physical interaction. We need structure, both physically and mentally, to be creative, even if the goal is to breakout of the structure. Thanks for the enlightened look at dawless.
I like this take! And thank you for watching! :-)
„rent before buy” bro I got my bills covered, ok? (right?) 😅
enjoying this artists perspective type of videos 👍
There will be more FOR SURE
Like it! I'm playing with DAWless - so I can just play & goof off.. That being said, it's kinda sad when I stumble into a great 'groove' for a couple of hours... but didn't capture all the patches, settings etc... And poof, moment is gone.
I know the feeling
Great advice btw.. 👍 mastering a good work flow is essential. I've a Happy set-up, to jam..My Deluge, when I use it in arranger frees my hands to tweak my Perfourmer & Sirin, I've other gear, Digitone thru microcosm, but tend to sequence from my Deluge. Free hands again.. My Happy Place.. 😊 cheers 🍻 ✌️I've avoided modular, this would deffo breed GAS ⛽️
I’m just stepping into modular…how unfortunate
@@LiamKillen yer bank balance 😆 🤣 hopefully you'll get freebies 😉
Was gonna recommend the rmx1000 for creating drops, as I’ve used it myself and loved it. I really liked the paddle for exiting the effect
Yeah def something to consider
I am dawless and I have the perfect live portable set up where everything is plugged in and adhered to a briefcase. So I pull up to shows in one trip and it takes me 2 minutes to set up and sound check.
MC 101
MC707 sending midi to TD3 and NTS1
And RC202 looper for guitar and vox.
Yoo I just did the briefcase thing too!!! I got mine with a circuit tracks, volca keys and fm2 with the Aira J6,E4 and T8
@@88Fitzy88 oh wow great line of units!
Master!
I like DAWless because it gets me away from my laptop and a screen. I stare at a screen at work from 8 to 12 hours a day. I also feel it's easier to be musically creative on a physical instrument such as a groove box, drum machine, or sampler.
Totally
I think you are totally right on the fact that audiences / friends does not really care about how you play/produce the music, rather focusing on the entire feeling of your piece. Therefore, I also feel that how ever you would like to feel comfortable on making music, you should proceed, and do not need to stick in DAW- or DAWLESS categories. There should not be any force to anyone or feeling shame if you use computer etc. I love the process of learning through dawless set-up but its time and money consuming. Hope to find a way soon.
Exactly, whatever calls you really
Using gear means you've accepted its limitations while making creative solutions in the pursuit of your craft. Gear can do a lot but it can't do everything. Limitations make you try harder.
Using DAWs are fine; you've got the power of the universe at your fingertips. There's not much they can't do.
Both have learning curves. Both can be amazing.
I think that combining the two is the way to go honestly.
I want to learn and improve my skills, to make songs I like, and to enjoy the process. So I settled on using a hardware DAW (Akai Force) and one nice synth. This has been a very effective solution for me, so I'm really happy with it and don't feel a need to get more gear.
Glad that you’ve found a sweet spot 😊
Lately I've been thinking that I don't like the term "dawless". It defines what you're doing "negatively". Of course, we're all aware of DAWs, and so there must be a conscious decision at some point about how or whether to engage with them. But for me, what I enjoy is interacting with, "playing", instruments. I like the sense of music unfolding in real time before me. Thanks for the great video!
Interesting take - and I appreciate you watching! :-)
I work as a sound designer so I'm staring at a DAW 90% of my everyday life. The last thing I want to do when I get home is get on my computer and look at reaper all night. Starting to build a Dawless ambient setup. Feels more expressive and creative and I really resonate with what bo was saying. Dude hit the nail on the head there. But indeed bye bye money
Yeah this is the sentiment of so many DAWLESS folks.
By the way if you want to have this discussion in more of a community environment - hit up my Discord!
Here's the invite incase you're interested: discord.gg/xj8J2xJuBP
I'm 47 years old. When I started making music in high school it was just hardware. In my early teens my bedroom was mostly taken up with gear. It's funny to me that dawless is a thing. I feel like I've gone the other way, moving from gear only to everything being in Ableton or Reason and on a laptop. Dawless just feels like going back to the start for me.
Yeah i'm like right between both worlds. The thing about today's "DAWLESS" gear is that it's much smaller and way more capable than it was a few decades ago - that being said, it's still easy to fall into that category of just having way too much gear that you don't need lol.
Been dawless since I started playing music... technically I was a guitarist/bassist first, but in the last 20 years keyboard player. Since I don't play drums though, I found a weird enjoyment in drum samplers, specifically the electribes first the es1 and now the e2s. Currently I have 2 e2s, an sp404sx, 3 different kaospads, and a monologue, minilogue xd and mininova. I love it. I have released many albums, and played live with various combinations of either guitar, bass, synth and my electronic project, known as Wurm. I tried using a DAW for making music and it either took too long to make a song or would encounter issues playing live with a DAW.
That’s awesome! The never ending search for the best set up!
DAW-less, when you play Push or alike with computer screen OFF is best :) DAW stays out of your sight/mind, but all material stays there. Easy to save, develop, or keep jams collecting dust … those are fun to revisit, which is impossible to do with pure DAW-less, unless you are RUclipsr.
Yeah I see these integrated tools as more and more valuable because it takes you off the screen and brings you more into the music.
I’d like to see you make a video about the Syntakt. Seems like a cool piece of gear
Just got the octatrack! So that’s my main focus for the next bit
Now thanks to this video I might buy the rmx1000, talking about expensive gear.
oopsie daisy
So funny story, I know you know loop daddy...I had been playing bass and guitar for about 15 years and I was starting to lose my passion for those instruments but not making music. Then I found loop daddy a few years back. I ended up grabbing the boss rc505 mark 1 looper and also an analog synth...thinking I'd be able to use it with a vst...nope. I ended up buying the wrong synths but took a nose dive into sound design and discovered how much I love it. Now I have a few synths and drum machines, I'm able to program patches pretty quickly if I need something or I can dig into exploring sound for a while. It turned into the heat blunder buy I ever did lol and now I am able to play all parts of my music and complete songs or just jam as the feeling comes. The best thing so far has been my kids getting behind me. I found out one of my kids videogame name is HiFiHumanoidFan and it made me so proud. Now when I create sounds or music, as long as my kids are dancing along or enjoying it (and my wife) then I'm in the best place. Once their heads are done bobbing to the music,I know it's time to change it up haha but great video! I would say I'm mostly camp 2 with some parts camp 1 as I've published a bit over two albums worth of songs and it's been a blast. Also publishing you songs and then listening to them in different places like the car or work truck or whatever is a great way to learn mixing/mastering.
First world synthesizer problems.
It’s nice that you scripted these videos to support your agenda, and how you understand the environment around you to be.
However thank you very much for breaking everything up into the 3 groups.
The situation depends on a persons workflow. If the end result of that session is to create enough motifs for a finished product into whatever post processing method, then so be it.
On the other hand if the end result is to have a workflow and a session to only focus on the technology and the inner workings of such technology in the current workflow and or using the technology to make certain motifs sounds, custom sound design, which is just as relevant.
So it’s a person having multiple workflows and with a goal every time they use the equipment of what time management and projected outcome is supposed to be. I’m not going to spoonfeed everyone but I think you’re on the right path if you understand these words.
Not super coherent but it sounds like you’re pretty much just trying to sum up the content in this video
I like your approach! Many musicians I know are seeing the choice like a religious/philosophical thing, while in my opinion it is simply a question of personal tastes and choice. I have used VST for a decade when I was younger but now I really prefer hardware instruments... maybe tomorrow things will change again, who knows?
Yeah there’s always gonna be those purists
I’ve always loved the idea and romanticised the idea of dawless, but ultimately get frustrated with the limitations. The only piece I have found to an absolute staple in my set up is the OP-Z. I use this in ALL my productions with artists. it my go to sequencer in my Bitwig and Reaper sessions. I think the next step for me is probably the Digitone, as im a bit obsessed with FM but again not in a rush for the time being… This was a really great video though. A gentle reminder of where my head is at. Thanks man
That’s awesome! Op-z was my intro into this whole world.
I decided to get into DAWless because I thought it would be a more impressive way to perform live than just using a laptop. But it is a complicated thing to put together an interesting live set, and in the end, yeah - most people think you are just DJing anyway. But I love collecting and learning different gear, and still use small varied DAWless setups for creative inspiration, and then use a DAW to expand on any of those ideas I want to turn into something more interesting/polished.
I’m seeing that hardware/software mic might be the way
I'm not that far into my solo project yet, but I'm thinking adding visuals on a projector would provide something interesting for the audience to watch. Turning a few knobs on a midi controller isn't a very attractive live experience.
thank you to have time to discover new musical product for us
My pleasure 😊
Think im in camp 1 and 2 a bit. Try not to be 3 so much 😂 had the same setup a bit now but feel a new drum machine calling, thinking about drum kid which is a lofi hackable drum machine that works on probability that someone makes and sells on etsy, sounds neat but dont know if id ever get to hacking aspect.
I feel like DAWless may not be able to get to the same level as maybe a hybrid setup or something or at least i dont think ill ever get to that level but i only ever messed with a few dift DAWs and just did not work for me so i decide on DAWless and even with no musical knowledge to start was able to get a setup and get my own unique kinda style going and almost every time i sit down and get to make some music its a whole lotta fun while as for me personally with DAW it was fun but mixed with frustration 😂 wow what a run on sentence that was..
Thanks for taking time to make the video too, wishing you only further success in your musical journey 👊✌️
Hey it's my pleasure- thanks for your take on this :-)
I'm just doing a mix of both. Sometimes I need a VST for what I want, but with Ableton I can just make it work with my DAWless setup. On top of that I've stopped buying hyped gear and started discovering some old gear people either never knew about or just forgot, or thought of as toys. They're still mostly cheap. I recently got some yamaha keyboards for $20-$30 and let me tell you, they slap. At that price point I can't find any plugin that sounds as good and lets me tweak so many parameters. Yes, there are noise issues, or sometimes components that are defective, but that's all part of the fun. For me it's mostly a hobby, it's a way to unwind like any other hobby, but somehow when it comes to music people expect you to make money with it because to actually make music you need to have spent a lot of time and energy getting to know the basics.
For me at this point DAWS = composing DAWLESS = performing 😏
I have a Volca FM, Volca Sample, and Drumbrute Impact and I intend on building a live set with them and a VST as a sort of hybrid setup. If I wanted to make songs with the intent of finishing them and releasing them, I would do that in a DAW, because software gives me a level of control that hardware cannot. I use the hardware just to see if I can perform with them and maybe incorporate them in a DJ set.
Yeah you’re spot on here
Setup 1) DAW studio : Can feel like work, but yes! I get to finalise "the product" (score!)
Setup 2) Digitakt+Digitone combo : Feel like programming & DAW-less jamming & in the end you have made patches where you can always come back to & tweak them & then transform into a song in your DAW (score!)
Setup 3) My DAW-less setup, feels so nice and creative to be jammin', but I listen to the recorded jams & stems and haha yeah it's kind of useless sadly.
Or I need to practice more. Or I'm more of a DAW / Programmer person 🙂
Then again, it's all a journey & it's fun.
Your system is flawless
10:00 I agree - I think the biggest benefit of having hardware gear is that its simply not being associated with your work computer or personal stuff, period.
But for that purpose it's perfectly fine to maybe have two computers, one for work, and the other maybe have ONLY music apps. :)
True!
Have you ever tried turning your WiFi off?? 🤣🤣
@@Heathcliff_hensel I'm using Ableton to make music, I have no issues with DAWs at all.
Camp #1: I cannot justify the expense of hardware, and i am super slow at learning tech. I use ableton and Akai40 MK2 + launchkey. I do use ableton as-if it was a hardware instrument. 8 tracks and they all do the same thing, the macros are fixed. So it is like hardware, but i design it. Then i have the muscle memory and can play it like an instrument. No technical considerations, i hate "thinking" when i want to be feeling
* i love your "reason" for doing this. people need music, it gives the wings to the soul right? it took me 20 years to accept this is a valid reason 🤷♂
my illumination was when i saw this guy who has a "tuna fish cans", and he explained how essential his work was, and proved it in a few ways... music is essential
Yeah I’m the end it’s all about the music
This topic of DAWless always amuses me. I came up in the mid 90’s and there was no such thing as a DAW back then. So if you wanted to make electronic music you HAD to use ‘live’ instruments. I was an early user of ableton I think I started at v2.x when it was a midi sequencer and 2 audio channels. It took so long for computers to become a viable solution. Now that we have stuff like ableton/logic/DAW X and all the crazy VSTs, there’s a whole anti-DAW or DAWless crowd. Makes me giggle🤓
Hey it’s true eh!?
DAWLESS is necessary in certain live instances though
@@LiamKillen oh yes! I’m currently using an octatrack as a hub for live performance and couldn’t live without it🎶but I bought a year after it came out, so going on 10 years now and still scratch my head from time to time with it.
Dawless is very Zen, if something sounds good use it, if it doesn't change it until it sounds good. Hooks and grooves just seem to appear through happy accidents. I'm totally paralysed when starting from a DAW but everything flows freely with hardware.
The biggest problem I have right now is not yet being able to multitrack record so if I find something I like I will record that element for a few minutes for when I feel like using a DAW, but as always more gear will solve the multitrack recording haha!
There is like a therapeutic quality to it
Haha I'm glad about the DJ comment. I did a live set a while back with 2x Polyend Tracker and the OP-Z. And the comments I got after was that people thought I was a good DJ lol
If ya know ya know 😝