Best episode yet.... | Game of Thrones 6x9 "Battle of the Bastards" | Reaction & Review
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- Опубликовано: 10 июл 2024
- The FULL LENGTH (WATCH ALONG) reaction for Season 6 is currently on our patreon: / channelsee1
Check out our reaction to season 6 of Game of Thrones! We'll be posting new episodes weekly. If you haven't seen our House of the Dragon reactions please be sure to check those out as well.
00:00 Intro
00:58 Reaction
29:32 Review
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Развлечения
Tell us who your favorite character is and which episode you've enjoyed the most so far!
Favorite Character: Jon Snow
Favorite episode(s): Battle of the Bastards (S6.9), The Watchers on the Walls (S4.9), The Rains of Castamere (S3.9)
S3.4 Now His Watched Has Ended is one of mine. And Arya is probably my all time favorite. - Cam. @@BlazingSteel
@@ChannelSee1 that's a good one.
The Mutiny at Craster's Keep and Daenerys claiming the Unsullied and her dragon are peak GoT.
The amount of reactors who shout zigzag during this episode is so funny 😂
Yes, same I was screaming when it first aired
Wouldn't have mattered. Ramsey had dozens of archers behind him in case he missed. They all opened up on Jon as soon as Rickon was hit. He was giving the illusion that his game could be won which is (or was) classic Ramsey
Or my version: Serpentine, serpentine!!!
It's always American ones though.
Not that funny, it's just the most obvious observation
Couple fun facts..
the shield that Jon picks up inside Winterfell has the Besr Island sigil.. proving that Lady Mormont’s 62 men made all the difference..
After this episode aired the actor who plays Rikon tweeted ‘Had a good run #ShouldveZigZagged ‘
Even deeper meaning when you know House Mormont's words' are "Here We Stand"
sansa’s smile at the end was just *chef’s kiss*
Jon asked her pointblank if she knew where they could get more soldiers, and got crickets from her. Kit has a hilarious interview where he rants about how people act like Jon didn't listen to Sansa or was super sexist, when he acknowledged he should have asked her opinion, did so, and asked where they could get more soldiers; but she just talked in riddles. 😂
LMFAO
Bad writing...
@@filiblackthorn The writing was fine. Jon believed he commanded the army that would defeat Ramsey. He was wrong. His army was the decoy. The knights of the Vale won the battle. Sansa lies to Jon repeatedly in the episode so that he plays the part she and LF planned for him: bait to get Ramsey's army out from behind the walls of Winterfell. It's why she does not tell him about the real army that would defeat Ramsey.
@@gunkulator1 the vale and Jon's army combined are more than enough to take the castle. Her plan is very dangerous because it nearly got jon killed, the plot armour kept him alive.
@@filiblackthorn Lol no, they nowhere near large enough to take Winterfell. Walled castles are a force multiplier. Ramsey's army is already larger than Jon's and the Vale is all cavalry which is useless in a siege. More importantly, with Winter coming, siege is impossible anyway.
Fun fact: Kit Harrington accidentally punched Iwan Rheon a few times during that scene. He also got blasted with the shield on the chin by Kit. Iwan told Kit to 'go for it' during the scene.
They spent 10 hours filming it, and Kit hit Iwan twice, one of them with the shield.
Kit Harrington accidentally did punch Iwan Rheon in the face during filming, twice. Said he bought Iwan a pint after to apologize 😂
lmao I think I did read that somewhere at somepoint. Hard not to punch Ramsay, even if its his actor... - Cam.
The sheer power when Dani points at the ground, and her dragon lands right there...epic.
One of the greatest episodes in television history
Agreed!
Next episode in my opinion is the best episode in television history. Beats this one even by a lot. Next one is just so god damn good every single thing about it
Season 1 ep 9???, season 3 ep 9???, Blackwater, watchers on the wall, I think these are better
Every time I watch this episode, Sansa was right and we knew it, Jon can't save Rickon, but I'm always thinking "Don't do it Jon, don't fall for it...well, shit"; an epic battle with an appropriately brutal ending
You know nothing, Jon Snow.
Really it didn't affect the battle at all in the grand scheme of things.
The burning X's aren't just for show or intimidation...they are range markers.
This and the next episode are 2 of the greatest episodes of any tv show ever! This is an epic episode!
Absolutely 100% true
And how did the bodies pile to a small hill?
Rains of Castamere, Blackwater, Fire and blood, Mountain and the viper, laws of god and men, the lion and the rose all better.
@@smallbudoo Yeah I also think hold the door is better too
no but everyone can have their opinions@@evilzilla4053
SUCH AN AMAZING EPISODE 😭 i still get goosebumps til this day
Going back to edit this was difficult as I kept just watching it instead lol! - Cam
This is my favorite battle episode. The production, choreography and everything else is outstanding.
In other react channels, I used to spend almost all of season 6 going "oooh isn't that cute. Ramsey is feeding the puppies" and it's meaning changes every time.
24:26 ~ She said her uncle The Blackfish & his army had taken over Riverrun & he would help them. When Jon asked how she knew, instead of saying Littlefinger told her she lied & said she overheard Ramsey talking about it.
You beat me to it. Good job. 👍
Good choice. If she told Jon about Littlefinger, he would have either rejected it outright or gotten excited at the new ally, underestimating Littlefinger just like Ned did.
@@TimL-nr4hrShe couldn't tell Jon about Littefinger so that word of the Vale coming would stay hidden from Ramsey. At the parley Ramsey brags that he already knows the number and makeup of Jon's army which means he has spies in Jon's camp like he did with Stannis. Jon's small army was the decoy to lure Ramsey out from his superior position behind the walls of Winterfell.
@@gunkulator1 Okay Sansa simp
Sansa would have sold out Jon in a second
I think Sansa's motivation for not telling Jon that she had Riders from the Vale coming was deeply layered. She was mean to Jon growing up because he was a bastard so therefore she didn't fully trust him. She learned the Game of Thrones from Joffery, Cersei, and Little Finger. And she wanted to seize power of Winterfell with the claim that they won the battle because of her actions. She's playing the game and she even tells Jon beforehand that they already lost Rickon. She is legit winning the hand she's dealt.
I like your viewpoint on it! - Cam
She doesn't tell Jon so that he'll play the part she and LF planned for him: bait to lure out Ramsey. First rule of secret plans: Keep them secret.
@@gunkulator1 That makes sense. Arya was right, Sansa is the smartest person she's ever met. This is off book but I GRRM was still working on the scripts with them so hopefully in the books there is a good story behind how LF finally fell. Because he pulled this off and it's brilliant. This is the point where you knew Sansa was a player in the game.
When 3 Dragons on a Rampage and the Dothraki Army charging to retake the City is the worst part of the Episode, you know the Episode is on a different level.
You can see the full growth in Sansa in this episode. She doesnt turn away or blink when the hounds eat Ramsey. Shes a slow learned, after all, but she does learn.
Love the growth that Sansa went through, I used to hate her when she was young and naïve. - Cam.
R.I.P. Wun Wun 😢
The Stark banners replacing the Bolton banners at Winterfell was what Melisandre saw in the “flames”. At that moment I think her faith is restored.
I love Sansa’s smile of satisfaction at the end. She learned what she could from so many…Cersei, Joffrey, Littlefinger, Ramsay and all the rest 😂
Why didn't Ramsey just shoot Jon? Wun Wun was pretty much done anyway.
Just found you guys! Yay 🎉 I'm going to enjoy this, then start 1x1 watching y'all
Heck yea! Enjoy the ride! Thank you for watching!
She's Jorah's cousin.😊
The best episode of the entire cinema
"now kiss" SENT ME hahahaha
She wants those other ships to get back to Westeros, so I love the restraint of having all dragons attack just one ship.
15:51 that prediction followed by your reaction to rickon getting killed was straight prophecy
Ramsay was a Genius❤
The next episode is the best episode in TV history IMO.
One of the best for sure!
Especially the first 15 minutes. Shame Shame Shame.
truth
Not even top 10 in the show but whatever. Excellent moment but Cersei basically suffers no consequences for it. And if you read the books, you would know how bad the tower of joy scene is. I mean what a letdown hopefully the reveal is more complex in the books.
@@smallbudoo your criticism of Cersie having no consequences doesn't apply to finale. Cersie blowing up sept is definitely being build up since s5 and it delivered wonderfully
also why in seven hells is tower of joy a bad scene???
Loki: "I have an army."
Tony Stark: "We have the Hulk."
Ramsay Snow: "I have an army."
Jon Stark: "We have a Wun-Wun."
If you want to keep your love for the show, stop watching after next episode 😂
LMAO too late. We've actually already finished the entire show, just behind on the editing. lol - Cam
@@ChannelSee1 haha. Ah well. I tried but was too late
Season 7 is also great, the spoils of war is on thesame level as botb. Season 8 is the mistake but it really isn't as bad as people make it out to be. It was never boring just had plot holes
No you're remember when she was telling Jon about the Blackfish re-taking Riverrun, and she lied about how she found out.😊
Looks like I need to catch more of your reactions.
Appreciate you bro! Enjoy.
Though the writing was a bit sloppy for the battle, Sansa didn't trust Jon with the knowledge of the Vale coming. She could tell that Jon is a man of honor and not ready to play into Ramsay's games of deception. It was obvious Jon is not understanding how calculating Ramsay could be. Jon would have wanted to fight Ramsay straight up with all his forces versus all of Ramsay's. If they have done that, Ramsay's plan would still have won, and the Vale would have been wasted. Jon fell for Ramsay's deception, which was perfect for Sansa. It lured Ramsay into a false confidence, and then she was able to set her own trap for him.
And again, she loved Jon, but at this point, she didn't trust anybody but herself. She knows that "honor" and fair fighting were the downfall of her family in the past. You had to play a deceptive game to win this battle.
Nah she was hoping Jon would die in the fighting and then she'd come in and be the hero. Sansa is a spoiled brat and a sociopath. 😑
@@kylejohnson1308 Nah, you are just falling for the awful writing. Realize that the writers truly have no clue why Sansa hid the knowledge from Jon.. they just wanted an easy way to give her a moment w/o having to write any complex political intrigue.
@@starsimvidz You're falling for your own ego. Littlefinger has been established as a total bastard who is willing to betray everyone, especially his closest allies. Sansa has no illusions about Littlefinger since she saw him outright pull his worst shenanigans around her. So she waited until there was no other choice but to ask him for help. If she could have avoided asking Littlefinger she would have.
@@kylejohnson1308 Troll. She loved Jon. She didn't decide to call in the Knights of the Vale until Jon proved to be very stupid and very likely to fall for Ramsey's trap. We're not in season 7 and 8 where suddenly evderyone got fast cards and cell phones and could get anywhere fast. So she probably walked to Littlefinger to ask his help as soon as Jon rejected her proposal.
@@TimL-nr4hrPlzzzzz.. It was a shortcut towards giving Sansa her moment. They just wanted to add some contrived tension b/t Sansa and Jon before just magically resolving it all w/ no explanation or exploration. The whole thing is so painfully thin & surface level. Sansa hid vital, game changing knowledge from Jon.. and all we eventually get b/t them is "I should've told u, Im sorry". Which means we just aren't meant to think deeply here.
You can spend 10 years reading all the reddit arguments as to why Sansa hid this knowledge from Jon.. The speculations differ wildly from person to person, and each seem to attribute completely different character traits to Sansa... Some think she does it because shes now a calculating military strategist who wanted to lure & corner Ramsay. Some think shes just an arrogant, sociopath who wanted the glory for herself. Some think she just has general trust issues from all the abuse.. Each of these explanations paint Sansa as an entirely different character. And that's because the entire situation is so vague that no one can reach any solid conclusions from it.
Sansa never told Jon that there was even a possibility of the Vale showing up. He would've delayed for them absolutely.
That actually makes sense since Sansa didn't want to involve Littlefinger, because that would mean letting Littlefinger in. And she knows Littlefinger's games too much to willingly owe him a favor unless that was the last possibility.
Sansa's and LF's plan depended on Jon not knowing about the Vale. Jon's small army was used as a decoy to lure Ramsey out from his superior position behind the walls of Winterfell. If Ramsey gets one whiff that help is coming, he stays put and there's no battle which is the same as a loss for North and the Vale since they have no ability to lay siege to Winterfell - that and the snows of Winter are coming, for real this time.
Sansa would have gladly let Jon die if that meant she got Winterfell.
@@09hicktown Yes, before the battle we see Sansa resigned to the reality of losing Rickon. What we don't find out until later is that she was willing to sacrifice Jon too.
@@09hicktown not gladly.
Best episode in TV history...hodor
HODOR! HODOR!
They have a giant....with no weapon and no shield. 😐😐😐😐
Were they fighting to lose?
I've always wondered when Ramsey put the arrow in Wonwon's eye, why didn't he just shoot John?
Dany didn't want to destroy all the ships, she wants a navy. Though, seriously, if you were on one of those other ships and saw her torch that one, wouldn't you just jump overboard immediately in case she decided to turn her attention on your ship?
FOR ME WINDS OF WINTER IS THE BEST EPISODE OF THE SERIES
It's definitely up there for me! - Cam.
I will say this is one of the best army vs army scenes ive seen in this veign the characters you need to care about u see its like a real battle with the chaos the mud and muck. It was a battle of tactics that if we being honest Jon should have lost.
its one of the worst actually
Cinematography wise the best medieval battle ever. But it's super illogical and the writing is pretty bad.
Sansa never once said a word about Baelish or the Vale forces, she only shared the Tully's regrouped at Riverrun and sent Brienne to get their support. It's not possible that any army would have crossed the entire North without anyone hearing about it but scouts and other castles apparently no longer exist.
Littlefinger made an alliance between the Boltons and the Vale. That's the whole reason he brings Sansa to the Boltons. The Vale cavalry riding was allies coming to Ramsey's aid.
Strange how no one ever makes this complaint about Robb's army outflanking the Lannisters in S1, Tywin's army riding right through the most populated part of the Seven Kingdoms without Tyrion or Stannis knowing about it, or 100,000 slow moving wildlings in S4 surprising the Night's Watch at the Wall even though they have men called Rangers whose entire job is to scout for Wildlings.
@@gunkulator1 He also 'made an alliance' with the crown/Cersei to use the Vale army to destroy whoever remained from the Stannis vs Bolton fight but this show stopped trying to make sense by season 5, especially with the nerfed men. Kings Landing actually never mentions the Vale again because writing continuity is so hard!
And a scout was purposely released by Robb with bad info to trick Tywin's army where he also knowingly sacrificed 2k men so they could attack and capture Jaimie. The Night's Watch was alerted by Jon and even before that Sam alerted Aemon who instructed him to send ravens....that is why Stannis came north and saved them.
The links to your personal channels don't work
THANKYOU so much for letting me know, I have updated them. They should work now. :) - Cam
Sansa never told Jon about Littlefinger and The Knights Of The Vale. What she lied about was her uncle The Blackfish and the Tully army. She kept The Vale to herself for selfish reasons. That’s all I got. Made no sense for her to keep that from Jon. Pissed me off what she did.
She doesn't tell Jon so that Jon behaves like an outnumbered, desperate commander instead of one biding his time until help arrives. Jon's small army was used as a decoy to lure Ramsey out from his superior position behind the walls of Winterfell. If Ramsey gets one whiff that help is coming, like Jon refusing to engage or continually giving ground, Ramsey marches back to Winterfell which is a loss for North and the Vale since they have no ability to lay siege to Winterfell - that and the snows of Winter are coming, for real this time.
@@gunkulator1ok, that’s just ridiculous. First, Sansa made it clear that she didn’t know anything about battles. She literally said this to Jon plus exactly when would she have ever been thought the “art of war” 😂😂 see what I did there. Ok, ok…So to believe that she made this decision based on military strategy is…ridiculous and smells like someone reaching to excuse the actions of a character they like as a opposed to facing the fact that the character did something foolish…again. Second, Wun Wun was Jon’s weapon to get into Winterfell something Sansa would have known by having an actual convo with Jon instead of assuming what he would think and say about this idea she never would have had to begin with.
Side note…we have to go with what is actually shown to us on the screen and that leaves 2 options (1) Sansa is a naive moron who makes poor decisions. This would be my choice because it falls in line with how the character has been to this point in the entire series. (2) She’s being sneaky and is plotting against Jon somehow. Others believe this and it can be true but I don’t understand why she would show up at all. What I actually believe the real truth is, is that D&D wanted to throw the Sansa character a bone and elevate her to hero level status in one quick move since they’ve wasted nearly 5 of her 6 seasons using her as nothing more than a victim. This was just poorly executed like a few other things here in the later part of the series. Her character was relegated to being a victim for far too long in the series and never really developed an identity outside of that and being a survivor of Joffrey & Ramsey. This is fine if it this was a Lifetime movie of the week but this is GoT where you either win or you die so I expected more from such an important character.
@@steelpookie7597 Did you miss the part where Sansa and LF meet up in Mole's Town earlier in the season? What do you think they talked about? Why did LF even go all that way to talk to Sansa? Just to apologize? Using the Vale to wipe out Ramsey is clearly LF's idea. That's why he makes the long journey to talk with Sansa. Two things happen after their meeting. 1) LF goes to the Vale and convinces Robin Arryn to send his army to help Sansa. 2) Sansa and Jon got on a recruiting tour to the lords of the north. A mere coincidence or part of their plan?
This isn't the MCU and Wun Wun is not the Hulk. Grenn and a small handful of Nightswatchmen are enough take down a giant all on their own at the end of S4. No doubt Ramsey and his very large army could handle one singular giant.
In S1 Robb Stark sends 2000 northerners to their deaths to act as a decoy to the Lannisters. Sansa and LF are just doing the same thing with Jon and his army. Why is it only stupid when Sansa does it? The real battle plan was to lure Ramsey out so that he could be defeated in the field. Jon thought he was the leader of the main forces against Ramsey. He wasn't. He was the decoy. He wasn't told for the same reason Robb doesn't tell the 2000 northerners that they were about to get slaughtered as a strategic sacrifice. If you can come up with some other battle plan that ends in Ramsey's defeat I'd love to hear it. Here's a hint: he's not coming out from behind the walls of Winterfell unless he believes he has an easy victory.
As to Sansa's character growth, looks like you missed that too. She's a pretty much a victim at first but then she finally starts learning the art of deception and persuasion. She's openly sparring with Joffrey in S2, playing on his sense of pride, all while pretending to be oh so meek. In S3 she befriends the Tyrells the same way and comes close to getting away. In S4 she does get away with LF's help and by the end of S4 she lies quite effectively to the lords of the Vale. In S5 she seems to be wholly at the mercy of Ramsey but she works on Theon repeatedly until she is able to break Ramsey's hold on him which ends her captivity. Now in S6 she has to persuade Jon to attack Winterfell by playing on his sense of honor. Attacking Winterfell is actually a really dumb idea. Jon is hopelessly outnumbered but he does it for Rickon and for Sansa. That's where she is now. Can she eventually outwit the master of lies himself, LF? Stay tuned.
@@gunkulator1 Lol, that last paragraph was straight comedy worthy of a good long laugh and long paragraph of my own at the end. Thank you. It’s like you didn’t watch GoT but instead watched a piss poor documentary on the greatness of Sansa Stark: a Revisionist Story. Let me hit the highlights of your earlier points first.
No, I don’t believe LF went to see Sansa just to apologize but to stir chaos and climb his ladder. His motivations aren’t in question, Sansa’s common sense and actual abilities are. There are far too many plot holes with what you’re suggesting. I asked before and I’m still waiting on an answer…where did Sansa gain her military know how. How would she know to use Jon as a decoy in such a strategic way without life or field experience. Please don’t say it was LF’s suggestion because that would not only make Sansa a traitor to her family but an outright fool for trusting LF again especially over Jon. Next, just how was the great General Sansa Stark planning on getting her forces into Winterfell when the Vale didn’t bring siege weapons? None of this makes any sense. Lol.
As for why it’s stupid for Sansa but good for Robb. As I mentioned before. If this were true Sansa would have needed to trust LF…again. If that’s not stupid, then I don’t know what is. Plus, Robb was the commander of the forces, so he had the right to sacrifice 2000 as a decoy to win a battle. In your scenario Sansa is just treacherous which would have been fine by me but the writers never inform the audience that she is. Not before or after the treachery. What if when Dani was pregnant is S1 went into the tent when the witch doctor warned her not to, not because she was injured but because they really hatched a plan to kill Drogo and take over his army. It was all a ploy to get rid of the men who controlled her life. And then she killed the witch to cover her tracks. Ohhh, the treachery. Don’t you think the writers would have given the audience some clue that this was going on and followed it up with confirmation after the fact. So no, Dani didn’t plot against Drogo and NO Sansa didn’t sell out Jon purposefully to LF. It makes no sense especially for those Sansa fans that want to see her as good.
As for Wun Wun it’s hard to take your “Hulk” comments seriously since we actually saw Wun Wun get into Winterfell so we know it’s not impossible and he didn’t need to be the Hulk to do so. So as for Grenn and the boys, who knows how they accomplished their feat. It will likely stay a mystery but it probably had more to do with that second iron gate the giant had to get past which bought Grenn time. You mentioned Ramsey’s very large army could handle one giant. Sure, if they weren’t busy being slaughtered outside of the gate by the Vale, lol.
And as for that funny paragraph at the end, let me paint a different story. S1 Sansa was a total airhead (my precious Joffery, lol) and a spoiled brat…no denying this. S2 you call it openly sparring with Joffrey, how if he never really argued with her cause he was stupid too. I call it more like a couple of wisecracks at Jofferey’s expense which were cute but it never improved her situation so how clever was she really. Joffery still beat and insulted her at will and there wasn’t anything she could do about it. That’s like saying the abused wife is wittier than the abusive husband. She’s still living a life as a human punching bag. Loser of that deal…the wife. S3 more of same but also Sansa actually tries to turn on her brain and decides not to leave with LF but stay and marry and be saved by the handsome Knight who doesn’t even like women, lol. S4 she finally is able to be just a little bit clever and saves LF only for it to completely backfire How can she still trust this man? Why, who knows, oh yeah she’s a nitwit. She just saw this man murder her crazy Aunt and his own wife even though the threat to her life had past. And not only did he murder her he added insult to injury by proclaiming his love for the soon to be dead woman’s sister before shoving her out the moon door. How did this not raise any red flags for Sansa…oh yeah, nitwit. Then let’s not forget my all-time favorite scene that illustrates her stupidity. After joining up with LF he manages to convince her that going back to Winterfell and marrying the son of the man who murdered her mother and brother was in her best interest…so funny. She starts claiming she would starve herself I thought she was going to threaten to hold her breathe until she turned blue like a child. We are deep into the series now and she’s still dumb as a rock. Please go back and watch that scene and tell me how you think she’s clever…please. Don’t spend time hating LF just watch her and listen to the BS she falls for. And as for her escaping Kingslanding, that’s 100% LF. She didn’t even know there was a plan to get her out. That was more of a smooth kidnapping than an escape. She gets no points for that. S5 I grant you she’s finally became desperate enough to be proactive and makes a legit effort to convince Reek to become Theon again. Good for her. That and spending an entire season trying to get a lit candle in a window are her big accomplishments through 5 full seasons in a show where everyone has elevated their game to win or survive even those that have died seem to have learned more than her at this point. So no, I refuse to believe this fairytale version of this weak character that fans of her like to spin. The character was misused for the entire series. And since you’re a MCU I’ll use this example to explain. Sansa for the most part was just a MacGuffin. Instead of developing the character they used her to highlight other characters and give them purpose. If we need to hate Joffery or Ramsey more put them in a scene with Sansa, if we wanted to see a more complex side of Cersei, use Sansa. Want to like Tyrion or the Hound more scenes with Sansa. Need to trust Shay or the Tyrells more…Sansa. Want to get and idea of what’s going on in LF’s head…scene with Sansa. She was little more than the infinity stones in Marvel. The shiny object everyone wanted but didn’t add much value past that. Rewatch from that point of view and you’ll see what I mean. Once you see it you can’t unsee it. That’s why she doesn’t have much use after S6 because we know all we need to know about the players at that point so all they do is have her walk around with her nose in the air saying witty one-liners that her fans eat up. Sad use of a character with so much interesting potential.
@@steelpookie7597 Clearly you can't accept that Sansa was willing to betray Jon. But what other option did she have? If she does nothing, Ramsey comes to Castle Black and kills everyone. If she puts her trust in Jon, his greatly inferior army gets slaughtered by Ramsey's. She was backed into a corner and so has to accept LF's plan. She's not trusting in LF so much as she's trusting in his ambition. This was the guy who schemed to have Joffrey killed at his own wedding - a hugely risky undertaking. Taking out Ramsey and then securing a grateful ally in the north at no personal risk to himself is too good of a deal for LF not to take. Again, this is not S1 Sansa. We already see her resigned to losing Rickon while foolish Jon thinks there might be a way to save him - and then he acts on this foolish belief and almost gets everyone killed because of it.
And on that note you seem to be operating under the assumption that Jon is a good leader. He's not. He's not even a good military commander. Attacking Winterfell is foolish. Going to meet with Mance in order to kill him after the battle in S4 was foolish. His leadership of the NW is a disaster. He fumbles it so badly his own men mutiny and kill him. Hell, even joining the NW was a dumb idea, especially after Tyrion rightly pointed out to him what a joke they were. Trusting in Jon would have been the dumbest thing Sansa could have done.
As to the plan itself, you seem baffled how Sansa planned to get into Winterfell without siege engines. This has already been explained to you multiple times. The plan is to wipe out the majority of Ramsey's forces in the field using Jon as a decoy to lure them out. Any remaining forces will quickly understand their predicament and realize it's only a matter of time before the greatly superior number of men outside the walls construct dozens of ladders and storm over the walls like Stannis did in King's Landing. Long before that, the defenders will parley with the besiegers when Ramsey is sleeping and open the gates in exchange for their lives. Or they'll just do to Ramsey what Ramsey did to Theon's small number trying to hold Winterfell. We've already seen Winterfell taken before without any need for siege engines or giants.
You're also naive if you think Rob could simply order 2000 men to their deaths and then they would just go off to die so willingly. The part we don't see is Robb lying to them to get them to charge into the lion's mouth.
We see Wun Wun break the gates of Winterfell after Ramsey's army has been almost completely destroyed. Even then the effort almost kills him. In contrast, if Ramsey still had a full army behind the walls of Winterfell, Wun Wun probably would not even get anywhere near the gates before the arrows took him out. Wun Wun was not a decisive factor for Jon's army.
Sorry you can't see Sansa's character growth even when it's laid out in front of you. I think what Sansa-haters despise the most is that they didn't guess what she and LF were up to, despite numerous scenes in S6 setting it up. They were expecting to have everything spoon fed to them, especially after the fact. Sansa herself wasn't expecting to have to explain it to anyone since she didn't expect Jon to survive the battle. But he's too dim to see what really happened. In my opinion he really should have died here but Jon has more plot armor than Tyrion and Dani combined so the dumb Ned Stark 2.0 continues on. And again, if you can think of a better way of getting rid of Ramsey, I'd love to hear it.
Finally reactors that are around the same episodes I am
Which has been your favorite episode so far?
I know your not asking me but Rains of Castamere will forever be the best episode of Got. Everything past season 4 isn't even close@@ChannelSee1
That was a brilliant episode, I would have to agree. Especially for people who hadn't read the books and had no idea what was coming.@@smallbudoo
@@smallbudoorains of castermere was great but just more of a shocker, battle of the bastards and winds of winter were engaging from the start and better than every episode of the show
House Glover denied them face to face
House Glover underrated.
Oh, you sweet summer children..it will go all downhill from here..
Rip Poor Rickon!!! He was a neglected child (being the youngest when his mom and dad left) running with his more feral wolf of the litter. That poor child!! What a life!!!!! Can you imagine being born and just from the age of like - 6/8 seeing only death
Oh wait… That happens in the real world every day in war torn countries where things have been turbulent for years even generations.
Sorry
I didn’t mean to be a Debbie downer but I just realized how crazy my grief is over a character in a show-
But I am sad for his character!
and your solution to solve this is??
What is the song in the intro???
That is actually an instrumental of mine, I make/produce music in my private time. - Cam
@@ChannelSee1 Wow, that’s nice. It’s a very cool sound! Is there any way we can stream or listen to this specific track?
Jon acted like his mom in this episode
Regarding Sansa's decision not to tell John, 1) Maybe she wasn't sure the Vale would really come to aid. She doesn't trust Baelish. 2) She despised Baelish, and John despised him even more for what he has done to Sansa. John is a very honorable man and so he might not have approved calling the Vale for help.
Very good points! Looking back I also liked the idea that she didn't trust Jon either. He is young still and new to commanding large armies. While he is a fantastic swordsmen and fighter is tactics may not be the best, especially against someone like Ramsay, who is clearly cunning. - Cam
Sorry, none of these reasons hold water. Everything is on the line in this battle. Rickon is going to die (Sansa’s own words) and both Jon & Sansa will die or be on the run forever if they lose. This was not the time to withhold vital information that could lead to victory. Especially since Sansa continued to complain that they didn’t have enough men. Also, think of all the senseless bloodshed. The Knights of the Vale come charging in out of nowhere and if you’re on Jon’s side how do you know if these new players are on your team or not. Jon’s forces had to assume they were the enemy and would have just started hacking away at the KoV. This was absolutely unforgivable on Sansa’s part. As leader of the forces, Jon should have been given the opportunity use/trust help from Littlefinger. The Sansa character was always a little too stupid, I mean naive 😂, for me as well as poorly utilized overall. But the writers choice here caused me to completely dislike the character after this point.
@@steelpookie7597 The writing in this episode was messy, but your argument makes absolutely no sense. "Jon's forces had to assume they were the enemy and would have just started hacking away at the KoV".. Literally how? They were surrounded and the KoV freed them. In what world does that mean "Ah, yes, they're the enemy, let's attack immediately".
The truth is, the writing for Sansa is messy bc they ruined Littlefinger's character and Sansa's arc in favor of Theon's character development. They completely derailed her narrative in season 5 - which is when she was truly supposed to learn from Littlefinger - to go for shock factor in marrying her to Ramsay. The way they handled this episode was their clumsy way of returning to a story in which Baelish is playing the game.
Also, "as leader of the forces" Jon should have behaved like a leader and not recklessly and stupidly charging in alone. But I don't see you calling out HIS faults here.
@@4Tom4lepus4 I’ll start with what we agree on so you know this is friendly as so many online take every disagreement as a personal insult which this is not. I totally agree with your points on the writing for both Sansa and LF. We are of the same mine for the most part here. I’ve always thought it was a mistake that after the episode where Sansa defends LF of murdering Liza the 2 of them should have started working together which would lead to Sansa learning how to be more cunning. Just having her go marry Ramsey and be abused again was boring and repetitive. Total misuse of the character.
Where we disagree is the fact that you seem to believe it’s impossible for Jon’s army to mistake the KoV as additional enemy forces. You have to take your audience hat off for a minute (we know more than the characters) and imagine being there on the ground scared to death, nearly beaten, completely surrounded and in a fight where you’re badly outnumbered. And all of a sudden man in armor and on horseback come charging into the center of the battle and you expect Jon’s forces to take time to decide if these new people are friend or foe. Don’t forget moments earlier we saw Tormmond and his men panic when they couldn’t break pass Ramsey’s shield & spear bearers. They turned and ran in the opposite direction trampling everyone in there way including Jon just out of fear and panic. Rational thought was not in these men’s mind…survival was. Please discuss this someone you trust and see if my concerns here make any sense. This was an unnecessary risk brought about by Sansa’s actions. The fog of war and friendly fire are very real things even under the best circumstances much less these that Jon’s men found themselves in.
As for your last point about Jon’s leadership ability in this battle…please don’t be one of those people who deflect and try to excuse the foolish behavior of a character you like by pointing out the failings of another character. If I’m making a point about how horrible I think Joffery is I’m not obligated to point how crazy Ramsey is or how much of a shit Walder Frey was. So let’s be clear, I never made any judgement good or bad about Jon’s leadership. We can have that discussion, I don’t mind but Jon’s leadership wasn’t the focus of this thread. Sansa’s actions are. I completely agree with you that Jon falling into Ramsey’s trap was inexcusable. You see how I have no problem admitting Jon’s failings. Please try that with Sansa it will make the discussion a little more balanced and more interesting if we don’t just spend time excusing the faults of the characters we like most. Sansa was wrong here BEFORE Jon fell for Ramsey’s trap so it has no bearing on why Sansa withheld vital info from Jon. Plus, no matter how well Jon commanded his forces, they were his forces to command. The men were following him not Sansa therefore he should be the final decider on what strategy to take and should be aware of all the forces he will have available to him. Sansa was clearly wrong here I’m not sure why this is even a debate.
@@steelpookie7597 I'm not disagreeing that Sansa's choices were bad - so this isn't a debate. I just wanted to add my 5 cents to the argument about the KoV and the writing overall. Because generally, you are right. But the situation as is definitely shows that they couldn't be enemies BECAUSE Jon's forces were surrounded. Like, completely. If they had arrived from the back where the Winterfell forces were open, I'd agree with you. And thus I agree that it was a dumb move. But in "reality", they very clearly came to save the Winterfell forces because they freed them from being surrounded. That was my point. Your argument about the fog of war is right, of course, but as you also pointed out, in the panic they could have reacted the same way even if they knew who they were because they did the same, as you said, by trampling Jon.
I have this weird, mixed emotion about this episode bc obviously it's epic, but I can't even say "Character x made this choice" bc it doesn't feel like it's the characters making choices. It feels like the writers taking short cuts to get the result they want. But Sansa's and Littlefinger's arc being completely wrecked in season 5 is truly the shining star of BS x)
At least we have the books - if GRRM were to ever finish them - where we know Sansa actually stays in the Vale.
so excited for thisssss
Ayyyyy!!!
Guy on the right literally looks just like kung fu night (the reactor)
Ramsey won strategically but lost to plot armor
It takes app. 279 farts to fill up a baloon.
Thank you for that information.
SANSA TOLD JON!!!!!
The most probably reason Sansa didn’t tell Jon was because she couldn’t fully trust Littlefinger. What if she told Jon and the Vale didn’t show? She just played her cards close to her chest…But yes]a it’s a plot hole lol.
The vale is barley loyal to little finger anyway bro straight usurped the seat. And plus, I find is so ridiculous that the Vale forces made it through the bog and moat Caitlin undetected in the time span of 1 episode.
@@smallbudoo how dare you bring logic into the story. 🤣🤣🤣
Y’all notice too many things on a “first viewing” and have too many “ideas” on what may happen later for this to be a true Reaction Video.
Skeptical a best…this is my first clip of yall. I’ll give it a few more to see what’s what.
A little skepticism is always healthy but we have always been upfront on what we know before watching episodes. We value genuine reactions, that's what we like to watch ourselves so we stick to that rule. In our defense, GoT became way more predictable as they moved away from the source material in Seasons 6, 7, and 8. Hopefully you enjoy and thank you for watching! - Cam
ramsy bolton...bye psycho!give my regards to joffrey and viserys! 😊
it wouldn’t have mattered if he zig zagged of ramsey is a good shooter with his bow.
That and he had dozens of archers behind him at the ready in case he missed.
He should have at least attempted. Don't need to make it easy for the shooter lol. - Cam
@@ChannelSee1well yeah he could of tried, but he was just playing with him thinking he’s missing the target. ramsey messed with him and at the last minute hit him.
@@ChannelSee1also i don’t know if you know but the battle was in one shot pretty much which i loved. sansa made me mad for not even telling jon that she could get more men. idk why she kept it a secret like that.
@@gunkulator1exactly and we all know ramsey wouldn’t have missed, he was just waiting.
Just a thing, the many faced god IS the lord of light. The believers in the many faced god preach that all gods are the many faced god, they're all interpretations, or faces, of Him.
You don't know that though. George rr martin has never explained his magic in depth and he says he never will
@@smallbudoo but that is not magic, it is a religion. And the very creed of the many faced god state that all gods are the many faced god.
That is very much well stablished in cannon.
ruclips.net/video/YaZA6ik2ESk/видео.html
sorry but magic goes hand in hand with religion espeically in fantasy. And plus, most the south of Westeros says there are only 7 gods. there isn't a true answer to the question.@@augustomourao2486
sansa doesn't tell jon about littlefinger bc she doesn't want to call him for help. she doesn't want to bring littlefinger back into her life or be in his debt. he literally sold her to men who beat, raped, and tortured her. but she's sitting in camp watching this tiny army and knows she has to do something or they Will All Die. so she writes the letter and just hopes they can get here in time. it's worth remembering this is the first time in six years the people she's with aren't Actively Willing/Trying to Kill Her. that kind of safety takes a little bit of time to trust.
The number of Sansa apologists is overwhelming
The last good episode
Shut up the next episode after this is the best of the show and best of all time and season 7 had an episode that matched the quality of this
Sansa was at Blackwater and she saw Ramsey End Stannis’ army. She has seen war.
This was poor writing so they can have the Vale come in dues ex machina and save the day. But, in story I think Sansa thought John with same honor as her brother and father, which got them killed, would lose to Ramsey, who’s evil always prevailed. So she held back to surprise Ramsey because he wouldn’t expect it.
Ramsey wasn't even at the Blackwater.
@@gunkulator1 ramsey end stannis at winterfell, as a separate war she saw.
Sansa was hiding in her chambers for basically the entirety of the blackwater. She doesn't know war the showrunners just didn't know what to do with her character
Great cinematography and battle choreography in this episode, altho narratively a but illogical.
they pause way too much for a reaction video lol
Now kiss 😂
Spoiler alert, he isn't him, a little girl is him.
Its great from a filmmaking point o view. but that tactic of this battle makes absolutly 0 sense. Its makes literally no sense, thats why i actually hate it. There is so much potential but this stupidness destroys it for me
This is a battle I suspended belief for heavily lol. - Cam
The show was jumping the shark by this point. Less and less character development, more and more long battle sequences, and it only gets worse from here.
The editing is terrible, why you gotta pause every second let the video flow 🤦♂️
The longer we let the video play the greater chance there is of our video getting demonetized or us receiving a copyright strike on our channel.
yeah sansa was disgusting. she just wanted to be right, disliked her so insanely much after the ramsey crap, she became entitled again
dumbest battle in GoT after 8x3. Nothing made sense, just fan service.
Nobody ever has real reactions. Youve clearly seen this episode. Smh
Hey if you don't like our reaction, that's cool. But these are genuine, both of us are watching season 6 for the first time.
@@ChannelSee1 sure