@@Shrimp_rameni The Chaos Emeralds have been stated since the first game to act as sorts of Infinite batteries. Super Sonic canonically is not hampered by rings or needs them to function, let alone Hyper Sonic.
@ninlaw9810 Hyper is featless so just assuming any random power boost is disingenuous. Not to mention we haven’t seen it since S3&K, so Current Sonic should easily curbstomp that Classic Hyper. However since DB literally says they're sticking to Game material only and proceeds to use OVA and TV Show footage, then I can bring up Archie's multiplier of 1000x. And since 1 Super Emerald can empower Sonic to Super Sonic level power, given how the Master Emerald literally powers them, it can be inferred that we're looking at a 1000^7x multiplier if 1 SE = 7 CE.
The feat doesn't make sense at all lol. How do you find out how fast Sonic has to go to restore places in time by literally running? It's just video game logic and bad writing Ian wasn't able to fix due to budgeting and not being allowed to do an entire lore rewrite of the game. I don't disagree with Sonic beating Mario but some of the feats we're giving Sonic here are just as ridiculous as the feats DB tried to give Mario if not worse.
@@RobBlu-d6u honestly death battle didn’t get to cares about it they just wanted mario to win cause people cried that mario should’ve won the first time lol
@MrWaiting. Well unfortunately it's real And I mean you can literally see it in action And this fight is the biggest example They don't take canon well They make Sonic out of character and made Mario highballed and in his home field advantage And they don't even let Sonic do all the things he can do
I wanna mention two things: 1. They acknowledged Solaris but because of some semantic bs they completely ignored it (look towards the top right when they go through his feats) 2. Solaris in JP wasn’t just going to destroy everything, but the very concept of time itself
@ Death Battle trying not to be biased to every non-Sonic character: (no seriously because some of these fights were dumb like Metal Sonic vs the Mega Man guy)
Another issue with Mario is that he is very inconsistent according to Mario odyssey it was implied he would have been crushed by the collapsing cavern in the final level and continental level or less attacks is enough to knock the poor plumber out. I used to buy universal Mario till I sat down and really thought about it from how Mario is portrayed throughout the games which is largely inconsistent throughout.
I love sonic but the same happens to him, he can get knocked out by metal spikes, resistance and durability in fiction is a mess overall unless u talk about realistic sci-fi like startrek
@ Not necessarily there is already an explanation. Every new opponent sonic faces is almost always stronger than the opponents he fought in the last game. As for metal spikes I wasn’t talking about gameplay mechanics for either.
@@vaderkurt7848 that goes for any verse, dragon ball characters are supposed to be higher dimensional and yet can't destroy the planet while just powering up.
Sonic is just as inconsistent as Mario. In Generations he was apparently able to "restore time and space" through his sheer speed alone yet in Colors he could barely outrun a black hole for less than 30 seconds and if he wasn't saved by the Wisps he would have died, Sonic defeated Perfect Chaos who is a planetary being yet in IDW he was hurt by an ankle brace being strapped to his leg, people say Sonic is multiversal in base form yet he can be hurt by falling down to Earth, ect. See my point? You can't argue with anti feats to downplay certain characters, it gets you nowhere other than a loop where your exact same arguments are thrown right back at you.
@@ashuraomega1000 Those examples aren't exactly fair. Being multiversal does not equal being invincible. Sonic is a living being, and he can be caught off guard and get tired. In Colors, he just defeated Eggman by absorbing every type of Wisp at the same time, and the game makes clear that when he absorbs a Wisp, the transformation takes a lot out of him, but he quickly plays it off every time because that is his thing. He doesn't want people to worry about him because he's the hero, so he thinks he has to look cool and be strong 24/7. Sonic was going all out in Colors when running from the black hole and almost reached the Earth, but he was tired and, as a result, couldn't go as fast as he would when going all out if he was not tired. This allowed the black hole to catch him and suck him in, taking him further away from the planet and causing the Wisp to have to come and rescue him. Sonic is multiversal in base form, but he isn't invincible, and like any living being, the condition of his body will affect how much he can do. Not to mention that no one ever seems to take into account that Sonic logically holds back in a lot of his adventures due to his speed as if he ran faster than light 24/7 every living being around him could potentially have their ear drums burst from the sheer force of said speed this is supported further by him running even slower in Sonic and The Black Knight as that world he was summoned to had elves and elves have better hearing than humans and Sonic reads books so he knows that and adjusted his speed to compensate for them. The reason he could restore time with his speed is because he didn't need to hold back because white space has no concept of time and, as such, no sound as well. So no one would get hurt while the areas were trapped in time. As for the ankle brace thing, Sonic is use to running freely. The brace added weight to one leg, making it hard for him to run or have balance while running. It makes logical sense. You can't say he is inconsistent and not understand all the variables and logic involved in said "inconsistencies." Technically speaking Sonic is still more consistent than Mario.
they really said "mario could keep up with sonic because at one point he hopped on a star that went fast" cause thats bonkers when he cant even get from castle to castle before bowser dips off with peach js meanwhile sonic has defeated multiple different World/universe ending threats
DeathBattle having Mario win against someone that's faster than space and time and defeating an enemy that crushes universes with it's bare hands and also with Sonic being stronger than reality itself is beyond glazing.
@@be7256 Maybe, but both Solaris and Time Eater are beings that can both destroy time and space (Eggman even outright says that the Time Eater can do it in his explanation on how he got a hold of it.) So it's pretty safe to assume that both beings are capable of cursing universes with their bare hands. Even if they wanted to handwave it and say that Sonic wasn't the only one there, the fact that he can even damage beings like that show that he's massively stronger than Mario.
@@be7256 Agreed. It was an awesome fight animation wise, but super forms are straight up multiversal level power-ups in the games. Bowser doesn't even reach universal with the grand star, so metal should've been able to wash Bowser and his army instantly when he went super.
@@michaelbk0076that’s not even the worst part. Sonic in base form is multiversal after secret ring, so that means that Egg Dragoon, Death Egg Robot, Metal Sonic (Base form), Infinite, and Sage are all Multiversal 💀💀💀💀
9:54 that bolt of electricity is NOT Mario, he possessed someone/something else and used its powers and abilities, if anything he’s only able to do it so easily because of Cappy, And sure he got a handle on his mushrooms and magic flowers pretty quickly but literally jumping into someone else is a completely different story, in almost certain that Cappy had more of a hand in helping Mario’s mastery of different bodies than we give him credit for
I'm surprised they don't talk about Sonic CD because classic Sonic was able to travel through time by himself the developers of the game said that the signpost were simply aesthetic or a game mechanic what does it by himself put him over lightspeed a modern Sonic is a completely different story
I keep forgetting sonic c d is a legitimate game, and yes, sonic was able to basically time travel in that game that easily puts them massively faster than light.I need to remember that when i'm in debates about sonic's light speed.
I think it's funny that Death Battle said that Sonic can't run as fast as light unless he uses the lightspeed dash shoes and then shows Sonic Unleashed, which crazily debunks that. The lightspeed dash shoes are obviously labeled as lightspeed and allow Sonic to travel across a trail of rings at lightspeed. When you use the lightspeed dash to go through a checkpoint, the SPD that's listed is I think 300 something (I could be wrong but I know it's in the hundreds zone). Sonic's real top possible speed in Sonic Unleashed is like 4000 something SPD. And even if you went with the speed DB got from Sonic Unleashed, that's still significantly faster than the lightspeed dash.
There’s also Generations, which shows his boosting is far quicker than the LSA. So that already debunks that. I’m not even gonna bother bringing up any of Sonic’s higher end speed feats from Infinite-Immeasurable.
Current sonic with the unleashed Calc will stop at 99,200 SPD. That's his idle speed. If we take it higher to his actual speed. Then yeah the Calc melts.
@@braumkimball9548 The End and Sage even claim Sonic was defying literal causality in the JP. This isn’t to far-fetched given he defies it in JP 06 since Solaris can manipulate cause and effect, as well as in SATSR where he was fated to die in the very narrative of the story and didn’t, which is also fate and plot manipulation, which Sonic even claims is because “With my speed, I can shake free of any fate.”
Old Death Battle was more focused on jokes and puns, than actual power scaling and they nerfed them a second time Next Video needs to be Gaara vs Toph because wtf DB
@@justsomeguywholovesberserk6375 I don't actually know too much about Naruto scaling, cause everytime I try to get into the series, I drop off at the Land of Waves arc.
@@justsomeguywholovesberserk6375 Gaara vs toph was made in the pre power scaling era where they just stated the characters hax and arsenal, they rarly did scaling back then. Scaling became a consistent thing post s3.
Let me just say I’m not a power scaler and really only watch DB for fun but this episode does bother me. Particularly the fight animation. Comparing it to the original Mario vs Sonic and it’s obvious that this fight was heavily influenced by the 2010s cringe culture surrounding Sonic. Stuff like Sonic getting kicked in the crotch and Hyper Sonic not being able to hurt Mario really gives off the impression that the whole point of the fight was just “Sonic bad please laugh”. Stuff like Shadow vs Ryuko and Silver vs Trunks (Hell even Archie Sonic vs Wally West) were a lot more respectful towards the Sonic franchise at least in terms of the fight animations
@@AnimationDude_ Even if it was the same level of invincibility, Mario's star only lasts like 10 seconds whilst Sonic's super forms (going by Death Battle's logic) nearly lasts for a minute yet in the fight, they both ran out at the same time... even with the fact that Sonic can extend his time by just collecting rings which he could easily do if they hadn't massively nerfed his speed.
I don't even see why DB tries to act like it found a Eureka moment when discussing Unleashed's SPD formula. If you touch a goal post using Light-Speed Dash; that rates already 320 on the SPD, so much lower than the maximum boost going 3,000+ SPD. They literally had a formula for Light-Speed Sonic, even 9.2x light speed and lowball that down heavily to Mach 10.
it gets even crazier when you consider the fact that The End from sonic frontiers is a conceptual lifeform based on the concept of nothing, with one of its nicknames being literally "Nothing", and claims that all of sonics previous enemies (including solaris) are finite compared to The End so yeah sonic has a feat that can be taken at face value as boundless (though i dont believe hes truly boundless)
I'd say he's boundless, but he has to work his way up to that level first. He didn't just suddenly get strong enough to fight The End. Bro had to start out needing a Super Form to fight Chaos, and now he doesn't even need emeralds anymore for most of his feats.
1. The End being the embodiment of Death and nothing doesn't make her boundless 2. Platonic concepts are not boundless, they aren't even inherently outerversal without context
@@ashuraomega1000 even still, that nearly puts the end near boundless if you consider the statement about sonics other enemies being finite compared to it, if the egg wizard is 1-C then this surely puts the end at somewhere around either 1-B or 1-A
Finally someone talks about this death battle bruh Also if you think this db is biased towards sonic characters just wait till you see shadow vs mewtwo bruh they downplay shadow more then ben ten in ben vs green lantern
I've seen that one, I do think they downplay him a lot, but technically he doesn't have any mental resistances, and I'm not too knowledgeable about Mewtwo and it's abilities.
@@Unremarkable6969 mewtwo cannot even perceive shadow before he just blitzes and oneshots come on dawg 😭 Shadow is literally sonic but with more hax (and way cooler)
@@Unremarkable6969 Didn't Shadow completely resist mind control from Black Doom in the final story of his own game? Black Doom tries to control him because he's made of his own blood, but Shadow breaks free. He should have been able to break free from MewTwo's mind control as well.
(yap warning) I'm just gonna make it simple, I'm gonna use the vs wiki, since people keep saying paper Mario is the same as canon game Mario (I don't think so but whatever) I'm gonna be using that version, and I'm just gonna use game sonic. I'm gonna high ball both of them cuz I'm not gonna debate what feats are valid or not (cuz there are a ton of ways to debunk Mario to hell and that wouldn't be fun) This is a strict 1v1, so no help from the Star Spirits or any other teammates, same goes for sonic so no wisp etc. Mario high ball is Multiverse level+ strength Speed: Massively FTL+ Durability: Multiverse level+ Multiversal+ ranged attacks Alright now for sonic Strength: Complex Multiverse level (6-D) Immeasurable speed Durability Complex Multiverse level (6-D) (it also said later down it could go higher but I don't think he needs that for this stomp) ranged attacks are also 6D uhhh I think you get the point- Game sonic alone is 6D and compared to paper Mario (who from what I guessed is the strongest version) Game Sonic is kinda broken, feel free to tell me how I'm wrong and stupid or something. Btw before you say mario would overwhelm sonic with his arsenal, he just wouldn't, Sonic is infinitely faster than him and would (not to glaze) once shot him before he could use anything. Edit: I've been getting jumped by Mario fans and some Sonic fans, luckily I scored a 90 on my IQ test so I'm able to keep up with the debates. tooootally soloing
@Oyflim_Captain_of_Bobs_army I don't really use vswiki i kinda feel like their unreliable with scaling characters. And I'm not going to say I understand fully how strong sonic is but I do feel like people wank him too much and take anything that guy uhh ian flynn at face value but takesomething miyaoto say with a grain of salt. But i respect this opinion
@@TCBlueFire Ian Flynn has only written sonic frontiers and shadow gens when it comes to games. Anything he said about sonics strength and speed in the past is most likely about the comics
(Yap warning) As a Mario fan, I still full on believe that Mario wins against Sonic. I still hate this battle though. Why the frick did that super star last so long? Why did Sonic go to Hyper right away? Not to mention that they goofed while explaining how mario won. Like none of the stuff they said made sense. Would I say that they were being biased. No, they were just being stupid with their information. Like, I actually would have been fine if Sonic won this battle, because it would somewhat make sense with the stuff they used. But Nope! Dunking Sonic like a basketball is apperently enough to kill him.
Facts, funny enough Sonic has survived falls like that on several occasions before. Earliest being Sonic 2 of all things in the Bad Ending 😭. He does this like twice in SA1, does it in Unleashed twice, Black Knight, later in Frontiers (which released after the vid), but also all the times he casually jumps off of planes and air crafts. He’s faster than literal light, how is atmospheric re-entry killing him 😭😭🤦♂️.
Finally some sonic love bro, Death battle pissed me off how they did the fight. So when i heard that they were doing rematches, i was being that they actually did sonic right and add his strength with the newest titles. And now I hope to god that they don't low ball eggman in this next fight, and they thank you for the video. You made my day.❤
That fight was before Sonic Forces and Mania released and it was the time where SEGA tried to retcon Modern and Classic Sonic as two separate characters instead of the same person and the Archie comics didn't count anymore after what Ken Penders did. That wasn't Death Battle's fault.
@@yusifudo46 I'm not saying it is, I love death battle I have been since I was 9 years old. But they kept low balling sonic and didn't even follow their own rules and this isn't some type of hate for Mario either. But it's not a far fight and that's something I won't accept so easily.
@@sharkmiester752 They low balled Sonic because SEGA lowballed Sonic. They constantly debunked and picked and chose what Sonic games were canon and which ones were not while Mario got access to every game. They even said they wanted to do composite Sonic vs. composite Mario because even they didn't agree with all the constant changes to Sonic lore SEGA tried to implement. According to SEGA, the only games that mattered were Sonic Adventure, Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic Heroes, Sonic Colors, Sonic & the Secret Rings, Sonic Unleashed, Sonic Colors, and Sonic Lost World just stuff from the modern era The spin-offs suddenly didn't count anymore; Rivals, Battle, Shuffle, the Classic era games, Olympic Games, Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood, the Game Gear titles. They were all made non canon, it was only a few years ago they suddenly said all Sonic games are canon. It was a weird time to be a Sonic fan.
@@FrenzyStudiosYT Ben Singer was definitely a Mario kid and got made fun of all the time cause his console looked like a baby toy while the SEGA Genesis was a sleek, sexy black
@ in the second fight they did the same thing because they pulled info from the games, comics, and TV shows for both characters like they did in this one.
Amazing video dude, I am so tired of people underestimating how fast & op sonic is and his universe, I hope db gives us a proper rematch. It would be great if you did a video on debunking Metal Sonic vs Zero
@@Silence-qm3kunobody remebers the Adventure (except Sonic,,who has actually shown in Team Sonic Racing that he Remembers it all) Plus in Sonic X Shadow Generations we literally See Mephiles and in that game his objective is killing shadow and restoring himself to the timelne,so again,he existed,but was deleted from existence along with the memory of him
While yes, technically the events of 06 got erased from the timeline, the scaling for the characters are still valid, since there's no training scenes or anything like that.
Sonic beats Mario in a fight... and that's why I like Mario better. Sonic's super OP. Mario's just a guy in his world. It's like Superman VS Batman. Superman wins, but Batman is the more compelling character to watch.
Depends what your looking at too You have the Archie Comics and Sonic and the Black Knight And Archie is actually really good And if your searching for it Do try finding it
You can't compare Mario and Sonic character wise because the franchises are completely different. Superman *isn't* "stronk guy" the character, people who think Superman is boring because he doesn't struggle are likely haven't even read a Superman comic, at least not any of the good ones like All-Star Superman.
@@CalebWhite-l6n I've typed up like three different replies to this and then got confused and went back to reread your reply every time. I didn't compare Mario & Sonic character wise, but if I did, I fail to see how the franchises are "entirely different", but if they were, I fail to see how them being entirely different would mean I can't compare two characters character wise. I never said Superman was stronk guy the character, and I never said he was boring. I just referenced an argument often made in "Which is better Superman or Batman" debates. I can think Batman is better but still like Superman too.
@@accomplishedshipyard Yeah, okay, the Superman thing was a major misreading on my part LOL. I apologize for that, just years of hearing "Superman is OP and boring" gets to my brain. I guess I'll also explain my thought process: I think the "Mario is just a guy in his verse while Sonic is OP" thought is flawed. Not only is Sonic also just a guy in his verse (He's not really someone special, he's just a guy with chaos energy that likes to do the right thing), Mario himself has a LOT of OP bullshit he's pulled. But what I'm referring to is that the franchises are going for something *completely* different (Mario is more light-hearted and gag based compared to the far more narrative based Sonic) so I just don't really get the point that's being made. Maybe I'm misreading what the point was and if so you can inform me. But I just don't really get how you can compare them in that sense.
@@CalebWhite-l6n Lol. I get it, I'd be frustrated hearing that about something I like too. I've never been too into comic books or super hero stuff, but I've been stumbling into it lately and Superman's fun. I'll never forget Pink Kryptonite... Thinking on it more, in games where the rest of Sonic's cast is playable, they seem to be pretty on par with him, so maybe it should be more "Anyone from Sonic's world could beat anyone from Mario's world" or something, but I digress. From a lore perspective though, Sonic's like, fastest thing alive (not counting Eggman, he's obviously faster), potentially the real ultimate life form, can go Super and Hyper and all this stuff, has quills strong enough to destroy metal robots, makes quick work of most things he encounters, I've heard he can run at light speed in the comics or something? Etc etc... Mario doesn't have anything like that. As a massive Mario fan, I really can't think of any OP bullshit he's pulled that's not like power scaling nonsense. Consistently everyone around him is pretty much on his level, and he's often outclassed by the people around him too, like Luigi jumping higher than him, Peach floating, etc. But none of them really have super powers so to speak. They just live in a world with power ups and people who can jump high. I was really struggling to explain this next part but hopefully it comes off decently well... My point was like, Sonic absolutely destroys Mario in a fight. Sonic's a force of nature, he has the speed of sound and crazy high strength and all these feats and everything to where like you kinda have to bullshit him in order to get over him. Mario's more vulnerable, he can pretty easily be stopped, he's just a guy. He has to go out and get various items and use them to his advantage, many of his bosses involve throwing things back at them and such. Sonic can just run in and get the job done most of the time, Mario has to use power ups or abuse his opponents throwing their weakness at him like Bowser in SMW, etc. I feel like if you're creating this scenario where Mario and Sonic are fighting, and you're throwing these two at each other, Mario is the underdog, and I wanna root for him. To wrap it back around a bit, if the fight was a comic book produced, we would absolutely be following Mario's story to beating Sonic, not Sonic's story to beating Mario. Mario would have the far more interesting journey to watch in this hypothetical scenario. ...yeah I'm really struggling to explain. Whatever, I've written too much anyways. Maybe this is comprehendable, maybe it isn't. Oh well.
@@Unremarkable6969ok but my favourite part in that video is the absolute disrespect to infinite aint no way he lost to king boo and his thwomp he could've easily dodged that
i've always believed that Mario has superior strength while Sonic has the edge in speed, but if you then throw transformations into it Super Sonic is just way too ridiculously op to be beaten by most things
Sooo, funfacts about some things that prove that sonic sweeps mario even in todays standard. 1. In Sonic Advance, its stated that Super Sonic can stay in Super for atleast 2 Weeks, because the rings are only a Game Mechanic. Hyper then in Realization should stay longer, and since Sonic 3 & Knuckels is canon, hyper sonic is aswell, and im 100% sure that it stays longer. Also its so funny how hyper sonic lost and fell into the water, but in canon hyper sonic can breathe underwater, so its weird that hyper sonic couldnt get out of the water. 2. Sonic in Sonic cd can run in the past, present and future in canon. The signs were only a game mechanic, and sonic cd is canon aswell thanks to origins. But to be fair, cd was always canon because of metal sonic. 3. In sonic generations alone, modern AND classic sonic were able to fix space and time by JUST running. That should tell you at how overpowered sonic in his base speed is. Its also canon that the chaos emeralds have infinite power. Mario's superstar may not have a canon timelimit, but it wont also stay for like, 10988283 billion years. Death battle was just youtube in 2010: hating sonic probably because of 06. Kinda sad, ya know? Also some other small things: sonic CAN use the light speed dash now without the light speed shoes thanks to gens, he managed to get out of that black hole thingy in colours, and defeated a 4th being that wanted to erase time itself. So yeah, sorry mario, but sonic sweeps Also SONIC SHUFFLE IS CANON? WHAT ABOUT BOWSER VS EGGMAN THAN HUH? WHAT ABOUT RGGMAN ROULLETE?
Ok, but to death battle’s point, DK punched the moon out of orbit and lifted a sunken ship WHILE STANDING ON IT. And when knuckles punched the moon in sonic x, he just moved it slightly.
@@DesaithsoulThat's x knuckles not cannon knuckles. Cannon knuckles can summon meteors at will in sonic battle. He also can go super knuckles which also has a multiplier
@@HollowThePumpkin even with the inventions it will only give eggman a bit of time Bowser can destroy all his invention with his own strenght and raw power
The biggest problem with powerscaling is that people look at insane "feats" and don't think further than that with any logic. And what I mean by logic is "what did the creators mean by this"? Like don't get me wrong: Mario is a tough guy; it's just that he is nowhere near Sonic who is consistently portrayed to be fighting fucking Evangelion units, the God of the Sun, etc as a SUPER SAIAYN! But Mario is just a plumber. Like this entire debate just consists of Mario fans reaching to unprecedented lengths such as Paper Mario and Mario Galaxy, and then Sonic fans get mad and only needing one clip from Sonic Frontiers to prove their point, and then the Mario fans will go "tsk tsk tsk, you're coping so hard" just instigating. Like it actually makes me so mad that people can't accept that their favourite character can lose a fight. Like I'm not gonna highball Sonic because he has the Hyper form, which for all we know is just a Super Sonic who can breathe underwater and do a flash attack.
@@Unremarkable6969 Well to be fair, they do use their character at their peak usually, including one off power ups they currently can't access anymore.
They mention that they will only use games as canon and then proceed to reference Mario throwing a dinosaur into orbit in the 90s cartoon as a strength feat. Bro powerscaling is a plague
Literally the only way Mario wins is utilizing the wonder flower and praying that the flower nerfs sonic 😂. Even then it didn’t exist when that vid came out
If sonic beats Solaris and time eater. Btw it says officially that sonic could solo Solaris in his super form yet he needed silver and shadow because he can only beat him in one timeline. Mario can not TOUCH him at all
The one thing you don't mention is that Sonic DOES do Chaos Control in Adventure 2 so their comment of him knowing but never did it is slightly wrong. He does do it, just the WARP version. They're right he never used the time stop version but twice he has done chaos control to use the Warp and Time Travel. So realistically he should've been able to outspeed Mario with ONE Chaos Emerald making his reaction timing worthless cause Sonic can teleport to avoid attacks and outpredict Mario. Just because he doesn't do it often doesn't mean he can't do it, I blame Sega for the writing decisions to make Sonic not use Chaos Control in his games when he does infact know and HAS done it to the point DB think he straight up can't. Its infuriating.
I would like to say one thing, they showed how Mario's durability was off the charts by surviving an explosion much larger than a tennis court, when they literally mentioned and showed sonic being shot out of a canon and flew into a planet and exploded, and survived in Sonic X. And Sonic lost by an explosion😭💀
2:45 I think the funniest part abt them using Unleashed like this is how Sonic's boosting speed is faster than when he uses the Light Speed Dash. And not just in this game, but even all of the games after that. But ig the Light Speed Dash isn't light speed anymore apperantly 🤷♂️
im telling you,Death Battle is just ragebaiting the fans like seriously Have you seen mario fighting an entity that exists out of time and space? also not related to the video,But Death Battle just decides to nerf the powerful heroes like especially I have seen the new Omniman vs bardock,Like literally Bardock is a lowclass saiyan for sure but he aint someone to mess with as he himself destroyed some planets alone but Omniman is a viltrumite who needs more than 5 just to reach the planet core, Death Battle just likes to ragebait the fans
@@ATM05867 Bro I'm sorry but we've NEVER seen Bardock HIMSELF blow up a planet Scaling yada yada yada sure but don't start making up stuff 💀 Even if your anger's justified
@@joshrd_1264 "Bardock is a lowclass saiyan for sure but he aint someone to mess with as he himself destroyed some planets alone" ???????????? does this not imply this dude thinks Bardock can blow up a planet????
That "mmm I don't think- mm" was funny asf. I have sonic at High Outer and Immesurable/irrelevant speed overall. Edit: My bad, I was thinking about arceus, Mario is High Complex multi - hyper with infinite speed.
Bowser and Eggman deathmatch is debatable, but Mario and Sonic deathmatch is beyond ridiculous! Even if Mario really was physically stronger than Sonic, the latter's speed will easily overwhelm him and render his strength useless.
Didn't Final Horizons make ring count for super forms matter? There's a cutscene ingame where sonic is hit, knocked out of his super form, rings spurt out of him but he regains control and snaps back into super form? So is needing rings for super forms canon now..?
Nah, that's just to tell you, the player, that you screwed up and to pay attention to your ring count after that attack The cutscene is completely avoidable if you're good at perfect parrying
@@Edu_Gamer-cu8tx yes, yet you miss my point, it is a big enough attack for the game to have a whole cutscene for it, they could have just had the attack drop your ring count seamlessly, yet it's placed at the forefront.
let's also not forget the fact that sonic used chaos control to escape an escape pod that was about to explode, with a FAKE emerald, something that is far weaker than a normal emerald. even shadow is surprised about how sonic could use chaos control with a fake copy of one of the emeralds.
That's what I've been thinking, especially with their most recent Dragon Ball episode, Bardock VS Omni-Man, I think they purposely skewed some feats to cause a stir.
@@Unremarkable6969 OK I’m going to teach you some facts about Mario while not dissing sonic because I love sonic and Mario equally but within Mario wonder Mario literally handled Bowser getting the ability of warping and surrounding in Mario 2 Mario somehow defeated the same Bowser, who somehow survived a black hole and I know you’re gonna pull up the sonic out ran a black hole but technically under the floor I’m pretty sure that’s not a black hole. It’s completely different from one sonic speed category technically sonic is one of the fastest people alive and if CD still technically has some farts still can, and sonic technically can go through time with the speed but Mario handle tons of damages and unlike any other could think of in terms of Mario versus sonic because Mario is equal too many powerful things. Mario I’m pretty sure have thought literal gods of some swords like in the Mario games literally fucked can do many powerful things during this world hell in origami kingdom Mario literally dealt with his tutti surroundings becoming 3-D that’s like one day on earth someone randomly just turned some people into a 4D universe and that’s Hella impressive but another thing is that Mario also battles many lie, donkey, Kong, who could punch the moon down again with Bowser he fought Bowser who could survive planets and black holes He fought many just like Sonic amd I don’t like how people are under arresting Mario or giving sonic all the height for when Mario fans is the same. They get called out for it both Mario and sonic right now are pretty much equal to each other in strengths and sure sonic has battled gods but so did Mario in the game Mario + rabbits sparks of Hope but if that’s not cannon then with his fair share of weird things that makes him be pretty powerful like Bowser fury, he literally fought a Bowser so powerful he has to use a ancient powerful thing that made him basically a cat God of some sort Mario dealt with his earth and time being warped in wonder
From the Sonic Channel, which is close to what you presented on the scan around 2:46, with regards to running speed, it says "supersonic" (超音速) with the asterisk symbol next to his running speed where they include in for his lightspeed dash/attack. And with Super Sonic, which you seem to not like what they used a statement from Super Smash Bros., it too is a statement from Sonic Channel, where his flight speed is "sub-light speed" (亜光速).
@@GreatSageGokuSources are appreciated, thank you. Don't take this next bit as any slight against you. But in my opinion, feats take precedent over statements. And Sonic has actual immeasurable speed feats.
Im glad bowser won because he stomps Eggman but in mario vs Sonic the hedgehog Cleary wins Edit: sonic beats mario while bowser beats Eggman yall cannot convince me Otherwise
TBF, they did the real battle years ago, they just made this one to please people that say the results are BS to this day. Honestly, if all I had to do was make a video to stop people from complaining about something I did years ago, I’d do it for some peace, and quiet.
I fully respect you thinking Sonic wins (I’m not sure myself who I think would win) but saying that Mario caps at mtfl is downplaying him a lot. I really think you need to do some more research on Mario scaling. Nice vid and new sub though.
@@Edu_Gamer-cu8tx i can Mario flying to another universe in 64 (flies from Bowser in the Sky back to the Mushroom Universe, the universe is infinite), Mario moving up the infinite staircase (stated in multiple guides as something Mario can do and it's worded this way), can move completely unaffected by the changing flow of time in Tick Tock Clock (even though time flows backwards at points in the manga and in the Mario Kart stage), can freely jump across time in Yoshi's New Island, can react to the Starship in Galaxy 2 which is repeatedly stated to be able to cross/transcend space and time, can move in a black hole beyond space and time in Mario Party 8 (might be 9), can move in a dimension beyond space and time in the Super Mario World Show, can move in a place that transcends dimensions and the boundaries of space and time (the Cutout realm), can move in some "super-dimensional realm" and a world beyond space itself in Super Paper Mario (the former taken from the save file description, the latter is said about the Woah Zone), can move in the Void, which is beyond all worlds in Mario (including ones beyond space and time and dimensions), can fight Bowser, who can shoot himself through time in the CoroCoro manga, can react while moving across space and time in the second movie, can fight Culex, who can consume all of space and time, can react to Huey/the Black Paint, which can spread across the space of the whole universe, can react to Bowser in Mario Party 5, who Misstar thought could destroy "every dream in the Dream Depot one by one in no time" even though there's more than infinite of them, and other examples.
Death Battle literally doesn’t understand continuity at all. They tried using non-canon feats, scaling and moments to massively lowball Sonic. Also: Did they even play or watch Smash Bros Brawl? 💀
Paper mario can't be the strongest, When he LITERALLY jumped Super dimensionial with peach,bowser (and another guy) plus weakening him with the pure hearts making him lose his invincibility and most of his stats. They gave mario and his friends boost and before that,Mario was even gonna give up.
People can't say that every Mario are the same,when there was a CROSSOVER between paper Mario with the Mario and Luigi series. And the creator of Mario saying that every Mario are the same,is an author fallacy . Which means that,there representation of the character isn't always the right one. By example,one of Archie sonic's writer said that he couldn't beat Goku.... We all know Archie obliterated Goku.
And even if Mario had his invincibility leaf(die 5 times to get it),he can't fly, can't do energy attacks and can die by fucking lava. Super sonic,when reaching a certain speed,can create a BLACK HOLE . And super sonic can just wish Mario to disappear by using the chaos emeralds.
Death Battle has always been a really cool concept- but they literally said one time “So how is this person gonna win?” Before doing any actual research during a podcast they did. They kinda just pick who they think or should win prior to any additional research. It’s great animations, great fights and a lovely concept. Buts it’s clear it’s biased
4:33 This isn't immeasurable speed let alone irrelevant. Even ignoring the fact that this isn't calculable in any way, immeasurable speed is just being able to travel through time with sheer speed alone, that's not what Sonic is doing in generations
"When the Sonic's accelerate through time" That is THE definition of immeasurable speed. With Irrelevant speed, the concepts of distance lose meaning or relevance, which you could argue is the case with the next line Tails said. "They fix space" But immeasurable is definitely a safer best.
@Unremarkable6969 When it's said they "accelerate through time" they mean accelerating through the White Space. Time literally doesn't exist for a large portion of the game because the Time Eater erased it
@@ashuraomega1000 that would mean that their speed is irrelevant since there’s no time and there is also no space they were moving so fast to they were able to fix space and time aka you are irrelevant speed
Nah, you got Maginaryworld stuff wrong. Maginaryworld only contains 3-D dreams, 4th Dimension Space is a infinite 4-dimensional space which exists outside of these dreams and see them as mere screens. The actual proper way to get 5-D is to scale above Illumina who dreamed the 4th Dimension Space.
The whole Maginaryworld stuff is hugely overblown anyway. Maginaryworld is merely comprised of regular dreams which are inherently 0 dimensional since they only exist as figments of people's imaginations meaning they scale nowhere. This is different from the Dream Depot in Mario where dreams actually have their own space-times
@@IsaiahJones-rw1pc Are you forgetting that they are dreams turned into reality? Literally the only reason why the dreams could be interacted is because they were transformed into the same plane of existence as the real world.
Their literal argument against 10:40 is "defeating solaris and time eater does not automatically put super sonic on overall universal levels, particularly since those enemies universe threatening capabilities stem from powers sonic does not possess" 🤦♂️ 💀
Sorry to say this but Mario takes this here is something you can think about while Sonic is faster than Mario he will only deliver weak attacks on Mario since Mario is stronger and more durable hence while Mario is slower than Sonic if he can get close to sonic which he can then Mario could deliver more serious attacks on Sonic, the OVA Sonic was supported since they said anything that was close connection to the games counts to the scaling (OVA was scaled to CD), even if we assume the Super Form has no time limit (somehow) Mario can still beat it since he has a very wide arsenal to last long with the super form and wear Super Sonic down, In the Solaris and Time Eater they did not put Super Sonic at Multiversal for starters Time Eater was a cosmic being that threatened the timeline BUT a destruction of the Time line is not the same as the destruction of a multiverse think of it as if Time Eater having Time Manipulation, and as for Solaris, Eggman stated to Sonic, Shadow, Silver that their super forms do not stand a chance against Solaris the reason team sss won was because Solaris exposed his core and Sonic, Shadow, and Silver exploited it to beat it and keep in mind it required all 3 hedgehogs to pull it off MEANING Super Sonic could not be scaled to Solaris AT ALL
Okay, there are a few problems here, but a couple main ones. One, the Sonic OVA is not canon. By any stretch of the imagination. It isn't even a tie in to CD, since it has Knuckles in it. Two, scaling dictates that if you can beat someone, you're stronger than them. And Sonic, even if he had help, still beat Solaris and the Time Eater. Especially Solaris, stated to be a Super Dimensional being, that really amps Sonic up. For comparison, Extra Dimensional is a tier lower than Super Dimensional, and Extra Dimensional is anything from 5D to 10D.
Nope the defeat of Solaris was impossible on his own since Solaris existed in the past present and future Sonic would likely need to destroy them all but he couldn't do it alone, also again Eggman stated that Solaris' cosmic armor made him well protected and even the super forms couldn't bypass the defense the reason they won was they targeted the core once it was revealed Sonic and friends managed to exploit it and defeat him
Death battle was definitely playing favorites here there was no way in hell they didnt have sonic lose because they think Mario was better there using movie ans tv shows as there fucking analysis other then the fucking games. And what makes them think mario could keep up with someone with immeasurable speed!!! Someone who casually moves at the speeds of light to someone who is around realistically the speed sound or less at best he shoudnt be able to touch sonic much less hurt him since Sonic himself says he gets stronger and has beaten enemies he had previously fought as super sonic like litterally they were seriously playing favorites sonic wouldnt have even needed to go super against him realistically but oh well its death battle. And its all for entertainment and all but there lack in care for sticking to there own rules and using other continuites but the main games just says a lot.
And like sonic was literally created to be BETTER than Mario as a character n raw power, it was said by sega in the first interviews of the game (when console wars was a thing), Mario's Adventures have evolved over time but always the big bad is bowser Who shouldnt scale above big City lvl at most, sonic's big bads are time eaters, gods, eldritch horrors, HUGE creatures, Mario has no chance against someone who is way faster n obviously stronger
@@TTVJOJO41323 thats only said cause of Mario galaxy and wonder. But they didnt measured the actual size of the galaxy and besides, those "planets" he conquers are at best planetoids, while most are not even continent size, having the tech or ability to move through space does not grant you planetary lvl strenght/power
The fact when you realise that some Mario fans says that Mario is faster stronger smarter than sonic I agreed with the smarter one, but what the heck do they mean by faster and stronger? and why do they include paper Mario? Like I know Nintendo said that every Mario is the same Mario including paper Mario. but that doesn’t mean that is true. Like one time sega said “ everything is Canon “ but does that doesn’t mean everything is Canon okay, that mine was just for a joke. but one time sega also said that sonic only runs away from Amy because he’s too shy that absolutely isn’t true because in the games sonic only run away from Amy because he thinks he’s too cool for a relationship and that could slow him down. and mean he doesn’t see her as his friend! are we gonna also ignore the fact that one time in paper Mario there were two different Marios and bowsers say I’m mad, but I don’t care sonic defeats Mario with high dff -
Even as someone who didn’t really know that much about power scaling in terms of sonic and Mario, I still thought it was ridiculous. How hyper sonic a form which gives sonic all of his supersonic abilities, increased tenfold, plus the ability to breathe in the water yet he lost to Mario’s furry persona felt and still feels really ridiculous to me. And now actually having some form of of grass of the abilities of sonic in not only the games but also in other stuff, especially Archie makes it feel even more ridiculous to me.
Okay, not gonna lie, until you started ACTUALLY calculating... I wasn't paying attention but that was mainly bc Death battle + any type of math = obvious mistakes also.. how did they miss Generations 💀
One of 2 scenarios would happen in the fight Sonic goes hyper and speed blitz Mario leaving a massive hole in his body, sonic goes hyper and Mario uses a star and sonic waits it out before blowing a hole through him, this fight was never close because speed is ultimately the most important stat and when your millions of times faster well shit this becomes a one sided beatdown
I mean...the chaos control thing is kinda stupid anyway, because Sonic in the main story of Adventure 2 was able to use it with a FAKE chaos emerald. In base form. There's no fuckin' way I'm buying he can't use it with all 7 upgraded super emeralds. The original video with the sprites was WAY better. Still nowhere near accurate, but at least they had the right conclusion in that one.
I will always prefer Death Battle's sprite animations, compared to anything else. Their 3D stuff isn't bad either. But the 2D drawn stuff just never looks good and isn't very Death Battle.
@Unremarkable6969 I think my favorite visually is the Link v Cloud remake. The song of storms, splitting with the four sword, it's just full of cool looking spectacle. I agree, though. The sprites look way better than the 2D drawn stuff.
Mario and Paper Mario are pretty blatantly the same guy NGL Wiz (read the codex wiki page on Paper Mario canonicity for the evidence) even then, they kinda scale to each other anyway through Paper Jam
If you use Paper Jam to scale mainline Mario to Paper Mario, you can easily scale mainline Sonic to Archie Sonic, based on writer Ian Flynn saying that a fight between the two would be close.
No they're not, there's evidence behind this, including the latest Paper Mario titles, Sticker Star, Color Splash, and especially Origami King! They are not cannon to each other. Also, keep in mind, Mario's creator is Anti.-story, meaning he's not that reliable when it comes to Mario's stories, only the actual writers of these Mario games that Mario's creator isn't in charge of.
When they showed that hyper sonic waring off the same time as Mario’s star power up, they weren’t even trying to hide the bias.
Yeah, cause sonics form last on how many rings you have, but mario Star is just 20 seconds, and when mario used the star, I started counting
I actually counted too and yeah, they made the star last the rest of Sonic's duration. What bias idiots.
@@Electrical010 yeah
We aren’t really talking about video game mechanics
@@Shrimp_rameni The Chaos Emeralds have been stated since the first game to act as sorts of Infinite batteries. Super Sonic canonically is not hampered by rings or needs them to function, let alone Hyper Sonic.
“Sorry bro, sonic absolutely dog walks Mario.”
“But death battle said-“
“NOBODY ASKED DEATH BATTLE.”
No comment? Lemme fix that
thank you 🙏
But I asked.
it still pains me that they went out of their way to include hyper sonic yet and make him comparable to mario with a super star
Base Modern Sonic >>> Hyper Sonic (S3&K)
Literally, actually
@@Dominic13337fr. hyper modern sonic would actually be too op
@ninlaw9810 Hyper is featless so just assuming any random power boost is disingenuous. Not to mention we haven’t seen it since S3&K, so Current Sonic should easily curbstomp that Classic Hyper. However since DB literally says they're sticking to Game material only and proceeds to use OVA and TV Show footage, then I can bring up Archie's multiplier of 1000x. And since 1 Super Emerald can empower Sonic to Super Sonic level power, given how the Master Emerald literally powers them, it can be inferred that we're looking at a 1000^7x multiplier if 1 SE = 7 CE.
@@Keisezrgshyper might be featless it's still Way stronger than current super
with the rewrote lines of Sonic Generations saying it's Sonic's SPEED and not just acceleration. The feat becomes much more solid
Yeah I noticed that change. Now nobody can deny that it was his speed that bought time back.
Sonic is just to powerful mario should be lucky that death battle did a Hyper nerf to sonic
The feat doesn't make sense at all lol. How do you find out how fast Sonic has to go to restore places in time by literally running? It's just video game logic and bad writing Ian wasn't able to fix due to budgeting and not being allowed to do an entire lore rewrite of the game. I don't disagree with Sonic beating Mario but some of the feats we're giving Sonic here are just as ridiculous as the feats DB tried to give Mario if not worse.
@@RobBlu-d6u honestly death battle didn’t get to cares about it they just wanted mario to win cause people cried that mario should’ve won the first time lol
@RobBlu-d6u It's simple! His speed is able to restore time. Which means he has immeasurable speed.
I'm going to be brutally honest here, they are so scared to use the actual game sonic feats cause they know sonic would win
Ben Singer when the Blue Hedgehog murders his plumber (He was a Super Nintendo kid and his console looks like a baby toy)
@@Unremarkable6969 exactly
They also did show they don't like Sonic
So they have a clear bias
@@Exeternal_Beyonder_Of_Doomsday no way
@MrWaiting. Well unfortunately it's real
And I mean you can literally see it in action
And this fight is the biggest example
They don't take canon well
They make Sonic out of character and made Mario highballed and in his home field advantage
And they don't even let Sonic do all the things he can do
I wanna mention two things:
1. They acknowledged Solaris but because of some semantic bs they completely ignored it (look towards the top right when they go through his feats)
2. Solaris in JP wasn’t just going to destroy everything, but the very concept of time itself
They basically said that solaris doesn’t matter because he needed three hedgehogs to defeat him which is wrong
@ Death Battle trying not to be biased to every non-Sonic character: (no seriously because some of these fights were dumb like Metal Sonic vs the Mega Man guy)
@@sussybaka3648 death battle was biased against bardock vs ommi man
@@samalexander2967 oh obviously
destroying the concept of time is not that powerful☠️
Another issue with Mario is that he is very inconsistent according to Mario odyssey it was implied he would have been crushed by the collapsing cavern in the final level and continental level or less attacks is enough to knock the poor plumber out.
I used to buy universal Mario till I sat down and really thought about it from how Mario is portrayed throughout the games which is largely inconsistent throughout.
I love sonic but the same happens to him, he can get knocked out by metal spikes, resistance and durability in fiction is a mess overall unless u talk about realistic sci-fi like startrek
@ Not necessarily there is already an explanation.
Every new opponent sonic faces is almost always stronger than the opponents he fought in the last game.
As for metal spikes I wasn’t talking about gameplay mechanics for either.
@@vaderkurt7848 that goes for any verse, dragon ball characters are supposed to be higher dimensional and yet can't destroy the planet while just powering up.
Sonic is just as inconsistent as Mario. In Generations he was apparently able to "restore time and space" through his sheer speed alone yet in Colors he could barely outrun a black hole for less than 30 seconds and if he wasn't saved by the Wisps he would have died, Sonic defeated Perfect Chaos who is a planetary being yet in IDW he was hurt by an ankle brace being strapped to his leg, people say Sonic is multiversal in base form yet he can be hurt by falling down to Earth, ect. See my point? You can't argue with anti feats to downplay certain characters, it gets you nowhere other than a loop where your exact same arguments are thrown right back at you.
@@ashuraomega1000 Those examples aren't exactly fair. Being multiversal does not equal being invincible. Sonic is a living being, and he can be caught off guard and get tired. In Colors, he just defeated Eggman by absorbing every type of Wisp at the same time, and the game makes clear that when he absorbs a Wisp, the transformation takes a lot out of him, but he quickly plays it off every time because that is his thing. He doesn't want people to worry about him because he's the hero, so he thinks he has to look cool and be strong 24/7. Sonic was going all out in Colors when running from the black hole and almost reached the Earth, but he was tired and, as a result, couldn't go as fast as he would when going all out if he was not tired. This allowed the black hole to catch him and suck him in, taking him further away from the planet and causing the Wisp to have to come and rescue him.
Sonic is multiversal in base form, but he isn't invincible, and like any living being, the condition of his body will affect how much he can do. Not to mention that no one ever seems to take into account that Sonic logically holds back in a lot of his adventures due to his speed as if he ran faster than light 24/7 every living being around him could potentially have their ear drums burst from the sheer force of said speed this is supported further by him running even slower in Sonic and The Black Knight as that world he was summoned to had elves and elves have better hearing than humans and Sonic reads books so he knows that and adjusted his speed to compensate for them.
The reason he could restore time with his speed is because he didn't need to hold back because white space has no concept of time and, as such, no sound as well. So no one would get hurt while the areas were trapped in time.
As for the ankle brace thing, Sonic is use to running freely. The brace added weight to one leg, making it hard for him to run or have balance while running. It makes logical sense. You can't say he is inconsistent and not understand all the variables and logic involved in said "inconsistencies." Technically speaking Sonic is still more consistent than Mario.
they really said "mario could keep up with sonic because at one point he hopped on a star that went fast" cause thats bonkers when he cant even get from castle to castle before bowser dips off with peach js
meanwhile sonic has defeated multiple different World/universe ending threats
Sonic kills God on weekends. (Chaos, Solaris, Gaia)
@@Unremarkable6969 And those things in Sonic Frontier
To be fair, Mario has also defeated god-like beings. He can only reach that effective strength with Luigi but he technically did do it.
@@getthedunkon9347galaxy tier threats
Sonic literally restored time Mario ain’t keepin up with shit🙏😭
DeathBattle having Mario win against someone that's faster than space and time and defeating an enemy that crushes universes with it's bare hands and also with Sonic being stronger than reality itself is beyond glazing.
okay to be fair the specific crushing universe with his hands feat is from an archie comics character and this is games sonic
@@be7256 Maybe, but both Solaris and Time Eater are beings that can both destroy time and space (Eggman even outright says that the Time Eater can do it in his explanation on how he got a hold of it.) So it's pretty safe to assume that both beings are capable of cursing universes with their bare hands.
Even if they wanted to handwave it and say that Sonic wasn't the only one there, the fact that he can even damage beings like that show that he's massively stronger than Mario.
@@michaelbk0076 oh yeah im not tryna say mario wins at all
if you ask me super neo metal sonic shouldve no diffed grand star wielding bowser too
@@be7256 Agreed. It was an awesome fight animation wise, but super forms are straight up multiversal level power-ups in the games. Bowser doesn't even reach universal with the grand star, so metal should've been able to wash Bowser and his army instantly when he went super.
@@michaelbk0076that’s not even the worst part. Sonic in base form is multiversal after secret ring, so that means that Egg Dragoon, Death Egg Robot, Metal Sonic (Base form), Infinite, and Sage are all Multiversal 💀💀💀💀
Just saying, my brothers never beaten me in Smash Brothers when he’s using Mario and I’m using Sonic.
Damn, that's a good point
B
I wish you a very pleasant Mario forward aerial
@@mastahmaxtah9339 *cursed unleashed opening cutscene sonic* WOOOOAAAH!!!! *Markiplier punch meme with Mario mustache on him*
@@Glitchtin_1064 *Final KO Flash*
I will never NOT associate the SA2 Moon destruction with paperbox's eggman pissing on the moon.
Do I have to?
You know what f**k it I'm doing it
"IVE COME TO MAKE AN ANNOUNCEMENT!"
EGGMAN PISSING CLEARS
@@ImnotZaz3n SHADOW THE HEDGEHOG IS A
One drop of the egg cracker himself’s piss negs the omniverse
9:54 that bolt of electricity is NOT Mario, he possessed someone/something else and used its powers and abilities, if anything he’s only able to do it so easily because of Cappy, And sure he got a handle on his mushrooms and magic flowers pretty quickly but literally jumping into someone else is a completely different story, in almost certain that Cappy had more of a hand in helping Mario’s mastery of different bodies than we give him credit for
Mofo in the same game couldn't dodge a fucking hat, like where they actually serious
@@Zenoc_gamerLoll
I'm surprised they don't talk about Sonic CD because classic Sonic was able to travel through time by himself the developers of the game said that the signpost were simply aesthetic or a game mechanic what does it by himself put him over lightspeed a modern Sonic is a completely different story
I keep forgetting sonic c d is a legitimate game, and yes, sonic was able to basically time travel in that game that easily puts them massively faster than light.I need to remember that when i'm in debates about sonic's light speed.
this would also mean that base classic tails is fast enough to do this as he also does this with tails in sonic maina
What level of speed do you guys think modern Sonic is in
@@fingas2010 immeasurable
@@marcxworld5708 incomprehensible...
Nah bro even as a fully dedicated Mario fan I can emit.. Mario is doing absolutely nothing to Sonic
I think it's funny that Death Battle said that Sonic can't run as fast as light unless he uses the lightspeed dash shoes and then shows Sonic Unleashed, which crazily debunks that. The lightspeed dash shoes are obviously labeled as lightspeed and allow Sonic to travel across a trail of rings at lightspeed. When you use the lightspeed dash to go through a checkpoint, the SPD that's listed is I think 300 something (I could be wrong but I know it's in the hundreds zone). Sonic's real top possible speed in Sonic Unleashed is like 4000 something SPD. And even if you went with the speed DB got from Sonic Unleashed, that's still significantly faster than the lightspeed dash.
Damn, that's actually really cool. I didn't catch that.
There’s also Generations, which shows his boosting is far quicker than the LSA. So that already debunks that. I’m not even gonna bother bringing up any of Sonic’s higher end speed feats from Infinite-Immeasurable.
Current sonic with the unleashed Calc will stop at 99,200 SPD. That's his idle speed. If we take it higher to his actual speed. Then yeah the Calc melts.
I like to refer to how casually Sonic uses speed to do the impossible anymore. Escaping Null space, cyberspace, and restoring time.
@@braumkimball9548 The End and Sage even claim Sonic was defying literal causality in the JP. This isn’t to far-fetched given he defies it in JP 06 since Solaris can manipulate cause and effect, as well as in SATSR where he was fated to die in the very narrative of the story and didn’t, which is also fate and plot manipulation, which Sonic even claims is because “With my speed, I can shake free of any fate.”
Old Death Battle was more focused on jokes and puns, than actual power scaling
and they nerfed them a second time
Next Video needs to be Gaara vs Toph because wtf DB
@@justsomeguywholovesberserk6375 I don't actually know too much about Naruto scaling, cause everytime I try to get into the series, I drop off at the Land of Waves arc.
@@Unremarkable6969I didn’t like land of waves at first either, the rest of part 1 Naruto is good the rest imo is bad
@@justsomeguywholovesberserk6375 Gaara vs toph was made in the pre power scaling era where they just stated the characters hax and arsenal, they rarly did scaling back then.
Scaling became a consistent thing post s3.
@@Unremarkable6969 dont bother with the rest cause land of waves it a top 3 arc lol.
No wonder shadow loses in every death battle outside kill la kill
Let me just say I’m not a power scaler and really only watch DB for fun but this episode does bother me. Particularly the fight animation. Comparing it to the original Mario vs Sonic and it’s obvious that this fight was heavily influenced by the 2010s cringe culture surrounding Sonic. Stuff like Sonic getting kicked in the crotch and Hyper Sonic not being able to hurt Mario really gives off the impression that the whole point of the fight was just “Sonic bad please laugh”. Stuff like Shadow vs Ryuko and Silver vs Trunks (Hell even Archie Sonic vs Wally West) were a lot more respectful towards the Sonic franchise at least in terms of the fight animations
Shadow VS Ryuko would have been cooler if they had All Hail Shadow in it but idk
Exactly, Hyper Sonic would oneshot Star Mario. Idgaf about "invincibility" it's a NLF victim
@@AnimationDude_ Even if it was the same level of invincibility, Mario's star only lasts like 10 seconds whilst Sonic's super forms (going by Death Battle's logic) nearly lasts for a minute yet in the fight, they both ran out at the same time... even with the fact that Sonic can extend his time by just collecting rings which he could easily do if they hadn't massively nerfed his speed.
@lukasruston8618 Even without rings (which are a game mechanic) he stayed in his super form for a WEEK
Thats exactly what I was thinking!
Getting a debunk video about some from 2018 to 2024 is insane 💀
I don't even see why DB tries to act like it found a Eureka moment when discussing Unleashed's SPD formula.
If you touch a goal post using Light-Speed Dash; that rates already 320 on the SPD, so much lower than the maximum boost going 3,000+ SPD.
They literally had a formula for Light-Speed Sonic, even 9.2x light speed and lowball that down heavily to Mach 10.
Eureka! Sonic is... Uhhhh, slow!
Like, what?
@@Unremarkable6969 They got there info from matpat
it gets even crazier when you consider the fact that The End from sonic frontiers is a conceptual lifeform based on the concept of nothing, with one of its nicknames being literally "Nothing",
and claims that all of sonics previous enemies (including solaris) are finite compared to The End
so yeah sonic has a feat that can be taken at face value as boundless (though i dont believe hes truly boundless)
I'd say he's boundless, but he has to work his way up to that level first. He didn't just suddenly get strong enough to fight The End. Bro had to start out needing a Super Form to fight Chaos, and now he doesn't even need emeralds anymore for most of his feats.
1. The End being the embodiment of Death and nothing doesn't make her boundless
2. Platonic concepts are not boundless, they aren't even inherently outerversal without context
@@ashuraomega1000 even still, that nearly puts the end near boundless if you consider the statement about sonics other enemies being finite compared to it, if the egg wizard is 1-C then this surely puts the end at somewhere around either 1-B or 1-A
@1kirua_aim I don't think you know what those scaling terms actually mean
@@ashuraomega1000 then apparently neither does vsbattles wiki
Finally someone talks about this death battle bruh
Also if you think this db is biased towards sonic characters just wait till you see shadow vs mewtwo bruh they downplay shadow more then ben ten in ben vs green lantern
I've seen that one, I do think they downplay him a lot, but technically he doesn't have any mental resistances, and I'm not too knowledgeable about Mewtwo and it's abilities.
wally west vs archie sonic completely wanked the fuck out of wally too
Try being dragonball fan when even people from the invincible franchise are saying deathbattle fucked up with omniman vs bardock
@@Unremarkable6969 mewtwo cannot even perceive shadow before he just blitzes and oneshots come on dawg 😭
Shadow is literally sonic but with more hax (and way cooler)
@@Unremarkable6969 Didn't Shadow completely resist mind control from Black Doom in the final story of his own game? Black Doom tries to control him because he's made of his own blood, but Shadow breaks free. He should have been able to break free from MewTwo's mind control as well.
(yap warning)
I'm just gonna make it simple, I'm gonna use the vs wiki, since people keep saying paper Mario is the same as canon game Mario (I don't think so but whatever) I'm gonna be using that version, and I'm just gonna use game sonic. I'm gonna high ball both of them cuz I'm not gonna debate what feats are valid or not (cuz there are a ton of ways to debunk Mario to hell and that wouldn't be fun)
This is a strict 1v1, so no help from the Star Spirits or any other teammates, same goes for sonic so no wisp etc.
Mario high ball is
Multiverse level+ strength
Speed: Massively FTL+
Durability: Multiverse level+
Multiversal+ ranged attacks
Alright now for sonic
Strength: Complex Multiverse level (6-D)
Immeasurable speed
Durability Complex Multiverse level (6-D) (it also said later down it could go higher but I don't think he needs that for this stomp)
ranged attacks are also 6D
uhhh I think you get the point- Game sonic alone is 6D and compared to paper Mario (who from what I guessed is the strongest version) Game Sonic is kinda broken, feel free to tell me how I'm wrong and stupid or something.
Btw before you say mario would overwhelm sonic with his arsenal, he just wouldn't, Sonic is infinitely faster than him and would (not to glaze) once shot him before he could use anything.
Edit: I've been getting jumped by Mario fans and some Sonic fans, luckily I scored a 90 on my IQ test so I'm able to keep up with the debates. tooootally soloing
@@Oyflim_The_Great Do you want to be pinned?
@@Unremarkable6969 Sure
@Oyflim_Captain_of_Bobs_army
I don't really use vswiki i kinda feel like their unreliable with scaling characters.
And I'm not going to say I understand fully how strong sonic is but I do feel like people wank him too much and take anything that guy uhh
ian flynn at face value but takesomething miyaoto say with a grain of salt. But i respect this opinion
You forgot one thing, Mario is a gag character he's not THAT strong
@@TCBlueFire Ian Flynn has only written sonic frontiers and shadow gens when it comes to games. Anything he said about sonics strength and speed in the past is most likely about the comics
(Yap warning)
As a Mario fan, I still full on believe that Mario wins against Sonic. I still hate this battle though.
Why the frick did that super star last so long?
Why did Sonic go to Hyper right away?
Not to mention that they goofed while explaining how mario won. Like none of the stuff they said made sense. Would I say that they were being biased. No, they were just being stupid with their information. Like, I actually would have been fine if Sonic won this battle, because it would somewhat make sense with the stuff they used. But Nope! Dunking Sonic like a basketball is apperently enough to kill him.
Wow thank you Mario fan for actually understanding how BS this battle is.
LIKE THATS WHAT I MEAN WHY WOULD SONIC GO HYPER INSTAD OF SUPER
Facts, funny enough Sonic has survived falls like that on several occasions before. Earliest being Sonic 2 of all things in the Bad Ending 😭. He does this like twice in SA1, does it in Unleashed twice, Black Knight, later in Frontiers (which released after the vid), but also all the times he casually jumps off of planes and air crafts. He’s faster than literal light, how is atmospheric re-entry killing him 😭😭🤦♂️.
Finally some sonic love bro, Death battle pissed me off how they did the fight. So when i heard that they were doing rematches, i was being that they actually did sonic right and add his strength with the newest titles. And now I hope to god that they don't low ball eggman in this next fight, and they thank you for the video. You made my day.❤
That fight was before Sonic Forces and Mania released and it was the time where SEGA tried to retcon Modern and Classic Sonic as two separate characters instead of the same person and the Archie comics didn't count anymore after what Ken Penders did. That wasn't Death Battle's fault.
Average Sonic Fan:
@@yusifudo46 I'm not saying it is, I love death battle I have been since I was 9 years old. But they kept low balling sonic and didn't even follow their own rules and this isn't some type of hate for Mario either. But it's not a far fight and that's something I won't accept so easily.
@@secondgamer141 you know it😙
@@sharkmiester752 They low balled Sonic because SEGA lowballed Sonic. They constantly debunked and picked and chose what Sonic games were canon and which ones were not while Mario got access to every game. They even said they wanted to do composite Sonic vs. composite Mario because even they didn't agree with all the constant changes to Sonic lore SEGA tried to implement. According to SEGA, the only games that mattered were Sonic Adventure, Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic Heroes, Sonic Colors, Sonic & the Secret Rings, Sonic Unleashed, Sonic Colors, and Sonic Lost World just stuff from the modern era
The spin-offs suddenly didn't count anymore; Rivals, Battle, Shuffle, the Classic era games, Olympic Games, Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood, the Game Gear titles. They were all made non canon, it was only a few years ago they suddenly said all Sonic games are canon. It was a weird time to be a Sonic fan.
Another banger. Shadow stopped time in their first meeting 😂.
Appreciated 👍
"Death Battle won't call Goku bullet level because he got scratched by a bullet right?"
Actually, yeah they might.
12:44 bruh, sonic is able to use chaos control's time bending abilities at will, if he couldn't, 06 would have been a different story lol
I guess they didn't read the wiki article on 06, cause I know they didn't play the games for this video.
It's also a major point in SA2 when Sonic used it with a Fake Chaos Emerald.
Again let me say this for the very last time?
Who wins?
Multiversal hedgehog? (MARS)
Or
Planetary Plumber? (Bars)
I bet they literally made sonic lose because Mario is more likely a part of their childhood 💀
@@FrenzyStudiosYT Ben Singer was definitely a Mario kid and got made fun of all the time cause his console looked like a baby toy while the SEGA Genesis was a sleek, sexy black
@@Unremarkable6969
These comments have to be satire lmao
@@Unremarkable6969 Dayum I was correct
But seriously sonic literally would’ve just obliterated him before the fight even started
The Super Nintendo looks ugly. Mario World looks boring and bland. The Genesis is a sleek, sexy black machine made to look cool.
@@Unremarkable6969 What are you talking about? Ben is legitimately the biggest Sonic fan on the team, sadly he does doubt a lot of Sonic feats
It’s funny that they made an episode with Sonic winning a few years prior to this episode then changed the result to please the Mario glazers
they didn't tho. they used composite Sonic and game Mario in the first fight
@ in the second fight they did the same thing because they pulled info from the games, comics, and TV shows for both characters like they did in this one.
Wow, the debunks for this battle are still showing up? It's been 6 years, wonder how many joker vs Giorno and bardock vs Omniman debunks there will be
I actually did a Bardock VS Omni-Man debunk if you care at all :3
12:24 cool image bro
A fellow man of culture, I see
As dragon ball and sonic fan i am really about to rage on these glazers
On Gaia
Amazing video dude, I am so tired of people underestimating how fast & op sonic is and his universe, I hope db gives us a proper rematch.
It would be great if you did a video on debunking Metal Sonic vs Zero
Maybe
i hate Mario vs Sonic more than Luigi vs Tails
Not a fan of that one either, let me tell you
What’s wrong with Luigi vs tails, haven’t seen it yet
It insulted your brain but it was funny in that way because the direction was clear compared to sonic vs mario.@@Ilovepeggleohyeah100
@@SansINess53 sorry, but can you elaborate
damn I've thought these crossover death battles were just for fun, but apparently calculating feats of fictional characters is serious bussines.
It comes from a childish sort of selfish desire to see the guys from my home team get the rep they deserve
@@Unremarkable6969 I still dont understand how anyone can use fight against Solaris as the prove of anything. The fight never happened. :D
@@Silence-qm3kunobody remebers the Adventure (except Sonic,,who has actually shown in Team Sonic Racing that he Remembers it all)
Plus in Sonic X Shadow Generations we literally See Mephiles and in that game his objective is killing shadow and restoring himself to the timelne,so again,he existed,but was deleted from existence along with the memory of him
While yes, technically the events of 06 got erased from the timeline, the scaling for the characters are still valid, since there's no training scenes or anything like that.
Basically, in Dragon Ball terms, their power level is the same at the start and end of 06
Sonic beats Mario in a fight... and that's why I like Mario better.
Sonic's super OP. Mario's just a guy in his world. It's like Superman VS Batman. Superman wins, but Batman is the more compelling character to watch.
Depends what your looking at too
You have the Archie Comics and Sonic and the Black Knight
And Archie is actually really good
And if your searching for it
Do try finding it
You can't compare Mario and Sonic character wise because the franchises are completely different.
Superman *isn't* "stronk guy" the character, people who think Superman is boring because he doesn't struggle are likely haven't even read a Superman comic, at least not any of the good ones like All-Star Superman.
@@CalebWhite-l6n I've typed up like three different replies to this and then got confused and went back to reread your reply every time.
I didn't compare Mario & Sonic character wise, but if I did, I fail to see how the franchises are "entirely different", but if they were, I fail to see how them being entirely different would mean I can't compare two characters character wise.
I never said Superman was stronk guy the character, and I never said he was boring. I just referenced an argument often made in "Which is better Superman or Batman" debates. I can think Batman is better but still like Superman too.
@@accomplishedshipyard Yeah, okay, the Superman thing was a major misreading on my part LOL. I apologize for that, just years of hearing "Superman is OP and boring" gets to my brain.
I guess I'll also explain my thought process:
I think the "Mario is just a guy in his verse while Sonic is OP" thought is flawed. Not only is Sonic also just a guy in his verse (He's not really someone special, he's just a guy with chaos energy that likes to do the right thing), Mario himself has a LOT of OP bullshit he's pulled. But what I'm referring to is that the franchises are going for something *completely* different (Mario is more light-hearted and gag based compared to the far more narrative based Sonic) so I just don't really get the point that's being made.
Maybe I'm misreading what the point was and if so you can inform me. But I just don't really get how you can compare them in that sense.
@@CalebWhite-l6n Lol. I get it, I'd be frustrated hearing that about something I like too. I've never been too into comic books or super hero stuff, but I've been stumbling into it lately and Superman's fun. I'll never forget Pink Kryptonite...
Thinking on it more, in games where the rest of Sonic's cast is playable, they seem to be pretty on par with him, so maybe it should be more "Anyone from Sonic's world could beat anyone from Mario's world" or something, but I digress. From a lore perspective though, Sonic's like, fastest thing alive (not counting Eggman, he's obviously faster), potentially the real ultimate life form, can go Super and Hyper and all this stuff, has quills strong enough to destroy metal robots, makes quick work of most things he encounters, I've heard he can run at light speed in the comics or something? Etc etc...
Mario doesn't have anything like that. As a massive Mario fan, I really can't think of any OP bullshit he's pulled that's not like power scaling nonsense. Consistently everyone around him is pretty much on his level, and he's often outclassed by the people around him too, like Luigi jumping higher than him, Peach floating, etc. But none of them really have super powers so to speak. They just live in a world with power ups and people who can jump high.
I was really struggling to explain this next part but hopefully it comes off decently well...
My point was like, Sonic absolutely destroys Mario in a fight. Sonic's a force of nature, he has the speed of sound and crazy high strength and all these feats and everything to where like you kinda have to bullshit him in order to get over him. Mario's more vulnerable, he can pretty easily be stopped, he's just a guy. He has to go out and get various items and use them to his advantage, many of his bosses involve throwing things back at them and such. Sonic can just run in and get the job done most of the time, Mario has to use power ups or abuse his opponents throwing their weakness at him like Bowser in SMW, etc.
I feel like if you're creating this scenario where Mario and Sonic are fighting, and you're throwing these two at each other, Mario is the underdog, and I wanna root for him. To wrap it back around a bit, if the fight was a comic book produced, we would absolutely be following Mario's story to beating Sonic, not Sonic's story to beating Mario. Mario would have the far more interesting journey to watch in this hypothetical scenario.
...yeah I'm really struggling to explain. Whatever, I've written too much anyways. Maybe this is comprehendable, maybe it isn't. Oh well.
Every Mario and Sonic powerscaler waking up from their slumber after they announced this battle 😭
Will you debunk bowser vs eggman
Yes
@@Unremarkable6969ok but my favourite part in that video is the absolute disrespect to infinite aint no way he lost to king boo and his thwomp he could've easily dodged that
I gotta say that happening was funny
@@vukasinporobic1739 To be fair, Infinite was actively focusing on other things and was using gravity manipulation.
Bro literally waisted 3 minutes did nothing then died Infinite got so disrespected in that video
As someone who enjoys Mario more, Sonic would absolutely DEMOLISH Mario
Mario isn't anything to sneeze at, but yeah.
The video is good, but the comments are really underestimating Mario
Mario is powerfull too but there is no way he is close to sonic anf kirby
I don’t know what you mean by ANF Denise but both of these two get crushed by the puffball
i've always believed that Mario has superior strength while Sonic has the edge in speed, but if you then throw transformations into it Super Sonic is just way too ridiculously op to be beaten by most things
Tell em, this isn't your typical mom's best plumber. This is Super Mario mofos ⭐
I remembered when I was 10 I threw my phone after Mario won
Lol
If it’s just Mario, he loses, but Mario AND Luigi is a whole different story 🤑
he uhhh solos both of them but ok
@ No.
@@Ilovepeggleohyeah100 ..yes actually, sonic far outscales them both, he’d destroy them if it was a 2v1
@@Ilovepeggleohyeah100it would make the fight very slightly harder but he'd still solo
Sooo, funfacts about some things that prove that sonic sweeps mario even in todays standard.
1. In Sonic Advance, its stated that Super Sonic can stay in Super for atleast 2 Weeks, because the rings are only a Game Mechanic. Hyper then in Realization should stay longer, and since Sonic 3 & Knuckels is canon, hyper sonic is aswell, and im 100% sure that it stays longer. Also its so funny how hyper sonic lost and fell into the water, but in canon hyper sonic can breathe underwater, so its weird that hyper sonic couldnt get out of the water.
2. Sonic in Sonic cd can run in the past, present and future in canon. The signs were only a game mechanic, and sonic cd is canon aswell thanks to origins. But to be fair, cd was always canon because of metal sonic.
3. In sonic generations alone, modern AND classic sonic were able to fix space and time by JUST running. That should tell you at how overpowered sonic in his base speed is.
Its also canon that the chaos emeralds have infinite power. Mario's superstar may not have a canon timelimit, but it wont also stay for like, 10988283 billion years.
Death battle was just youtube in 2010: hating sonic probably because of 06. Kinda sad, ya know?
Also some other small things: sonic CAN use the light speed dash now without the light speed shoes thanks to gens, he managed to get out of that black hole thingy in colours, and defeated a 4th being that wanted to erase time itself.
So yeah, sorry mario, but sonic sweeps
Also SONIC SHUFFLE IS CANON? WHAT ABOUT BOWSER VS EGGMAN THAN HUH? WHAT ABOUT RGGMAN ROULLETE?
Yeah sonic shuffle is canon because sonic mentions it in secret rings
They did the same exact thing with Bardock vs Omniman. Like how tf he loose with SUPER SAIYAN?! That just proves that they don’t know how to scale.😭
Dk vs knuckles was so bad, they used boom to make knuckles dumber than dk💀
Ok, but to death battle’s point, DK punched the moon out of orbit and lifted a sunken ship WHILE STANDING ON IT. And when knuckles punched the moon in sonic x, he just moved it slightly.
@@DesaithsoulSonic X Knuckles is weak as hell compared to Canon Knuckles.
Canon Knuckles can shatter the Master Emerald, which has infinite stats
@@DesaithsoulThat's x knuckles not cannon knuckles. Cannon knuckles can summon meteors at will in sonic battle. He also can go super knuckles which also has a multiplier
@@Desaithsoul dang, they are destroying you in the comments
@@Desaithsoul the moon was smaller than an island, only a city lvl feat.
Well save your energy for Bowser vs Dr. Eggman
I'm on team Eggman, I'm praying they give him some of the crazy shit he's built. Excited to see Metal Sonic again.
Bowser is gonna win it he is gonna demolish Eggman
@@Spider-Mario if eggman has his inventions then bowser is cooked but if eggman doesn't then eggman is cooked
@@HollowThePumpkin even with the inventions it will only give eggman a bit of time Bowser can destroy all his invention with his own strenght and raw power
@@Spider-Mario it depends, some of eggmans mechs are crazy strong. Some of them sonic can't even beat without going super.
I love how they intentionally or tried using older games because they knew he'd lose otherwise.
W take btw
The biggest problem with powerscaling is that people look at insane "feats" and don't think further than that with any logic. And what I mean by logic is "what did the creators mean by this"? Like don't get me wrong: Mario is a tough guy; it's just that he is nowhere near Sonic who is consistently portrayed to be fighting fucking Evangelion units, the God of the Sun, etc as a SUPER SAIAYN! But Mario is just a plumber. Like this entire debate just consists of Mario fans reaching to unprecedented lengths such as Paper Mario and Mario Galaxy, and then Sonic fans get mad and only needing one clip from Sonic Frontiers to prove their point, and then the Mario fans will go "tsk tsk tsk, you're coping so hard" just instigating. Like it actually makes me so mad that people can't accept that their favourite character can lose a fight. Like I'm not gonna highball Sonic because he has the Hyper form, which for all we know is just a Super Sonic who can breathe underwater and do a flash attack.
watching that death battle gave the same vibe as watching super bowl 58
the second they brought up hyper sonic I alr knew they were lost
The Super Emeralds are supposed to be defunct in canon, so idk what they were going on about
@@Unremarkable6969 Well to be fair, they do use their character at their peak usually, including one off power ups they currently can't access anymore.
They mention that they will only use games as canon and then proceed to reference Mario throwing a dinosaur into orbit in the 90s cartoon as a strength feat.
Bro powerscaling is a plague
Literally the only way Mario wins is utilizing the wonder flower and praying that the flower nerfs sonic 😂. Even then it didn’t exist when that vid came out
So yeah, it's a wrap for the plumber 💀
Me when I spread misinformation on the internet
@@LCLGod so death battle's whole channel? only good for animation but half ass scales
@@Austinfdp Result was correct but shit was lowballed asf and mfs tried to debunk Sonic speed to finite 🤣
You're frustration is equally funny as understandable... SUB lol
I’m like 90% sure that Death Battle just doesn’t like the Sonic Series
If sonic beats Solaris and time eater. Btw it says officially that sonic could solo Solaris in his super form yet he needed silver and shadow because he can only beat him in one timeline. Mario can not TOUCH him at all
The one thing you don't mention is that Sonic DOES do Chaos Control in Adventure 2 so their comment of him knowing but never did it is slightly wrong.
He does do it, just the WARP version. They're right he never used the time stop version but twice he has done chaos control to use the Warp and Time Travel. So realistically he should've been able to outspeed Mario with ONE Chaos Emerald making his reaction timing worthless cause Sonic can teleport to avoid attacks and outpredict Mario.
Just because he doesn't do it often doesn't mean he can't do it, I blame Sega for the writing decisions to make Sonic not use Chaos Control in his games when he does infact know and HAS done it to the point DB think he straight up can't. Its infuriating.
I would like to say one thing, they showed how Mario's durability was off the charts by surviving an explosion much larger than a tennis court, when they literally mentioned and showed sonic being shot out of a canon and flew into a planet and exploded, and survived in Sonic X. And Sonic lost by an explosion😭💀
2:45 I think the funniest part abt them using Unleashed like this is how Sonic's boosting speed is faster than when he uses the Light Speed Dash. And not just in this game, but even all of the games after that. But ig the Light Speed Dash isn't light speed anymore apperantly 🤷♂️
Make it make sense
Yeah I knew that Mario vs sonic was sus. Thanks for this vid to show I wasn’t the only one
im telling you,Death Battle is just ragebaiting the fans like seriously Have you seen mario fighting an entity that exists out of time and space?
also not related to the video,But Death Battle just decides to nerf the powerful heroes like especially I have seen the new Omniman vs bardock,Like literally Bardock is a lowclass saiyan for sure but he aint someone to mess with as he himself destroyed some planets alone but Omniman is a viltrumite who needs more than 5 just to reach the planet core,
Death Battle just likes to ragebait the fans
@@ATM05867
Bro I'm sorry but we've NEVER seen Bardock HIMSELF blow up a planet
Scaling yada yada yada sure but don't start making up stuff 💀
Even if your anger's justified
-_-
Yeah, he's called Culex. If you're just gonna be biased just say it, I won't judge you
@@godhaloknight6332 atm didnt directly say bardock was able to blow up a planet. read the comment correctly then reply
@@joshrd_1264
"Bardock is a lowclass saiyan for sure but he aint someone to mess with as he himself destroyed some planets alone"
???????????? does this not imply this dude thinks Bardock can blow up a planet????
It's always kinda crazy to assume Sonic is weaker than Mario but whatever, let them dream.
That "mmm I don't think- mm" was funny asf.
I have sonic at High Outer and Immesurable/irrelevant speed overall.
Edit: My bad, I was thinking about arceus, Mario is High Complex multi - hyper with infinite speed.
I think being outer automaticly mean you have irrelevant speed,those two scales go hand to hand
"Layers into Outer with MFTL+" what in the 2021 scaling is this dog 🤣
@@gabrielmachado1247 Yeah thats my bad 😭 Im too focused on other shit to process all these characters scaling.
Bowser and Eggman deathmatch is debatable, but Mario and Sonic deathmatch is beyond ridiculous! Even if Mario really was physically stronger than Sonic, the latter's speed will easily overwhelm him and render his strength useless.
Didn't Final Horizons make ring count for super forms matter? There's a cutscene ingame where sonic is hit, knocked out of his super form, rings spurt out of him but he regains control and snaps back into super form? So is needing rings for super forms canon now..?
Uhhhh I'd have to look at that again.
And even then, Horizons was a 2023 dlc update to a 2022 game.
This episode came out in 2018
@@Unremarkable6969 eh, fair enough
Nah, that's just to tell you, the player, that you screwed up and to pay attention to your ring count after that attack
The cutscene is completely avoidable if you're good at perfect parrying
@@Edu_Gamer-cu8tx yes, yet you miss my point, it is a big enough attack for the game to have a whole cutscene for it, they could have just had the attack drop your ring count seamlessly, yet it's placed at the forefront.
let's also not forget the fact that sonic used chaos control to escape an escape pod that was about to explode, with a FAKE emerald, something that is far weaker than a normal emerald. even shadow is surprised about how sonic could use chaos control with a fake copy of one of the emeralds.
Sonic vs Mario was never close, Death Battle just wanted that controversy.
That's what I've been thinking, especially with their most recent Dragon Ball episode, Bardock VS Omni-Man, I think they purposely skewed some feats to cause a stir.
@@Unremarkable6969 OK I’m going to teach you some facts about Mario while not dissing sonic because I love sonic and Mario equally but within Mario wonder Mario literally handled Bowser getting the ability of warping and surrounding in Mario 2 Mario somehow defeated the same Bowser, who somehow survived a black hole and I know you’re gonna pull up the sonic out ran a black hole but technically under the floor I’m pretty sure that’s not a black hole. It’s completely different from one sonic speed category technically sonic is one of the fastest people alive and if CD still technically has some farts still can, and sonic technically can go through time with the speed but Mario handle tons of damages and unlike any other could think of in terms of Mario versus sonic because Mario is equal too many powerful things. Mario I’m pretty sure have thought literal gods of some swords like in the Mario games literally fucked can do many powerful things during this world hell in origami kingdom Mario literally dealt with his tutti surroundings becoming 3-D that’s like one day on earth someone randomly just turned some people into a 4D universe and that’s Hella impressive but another thing is that Mario also battles many lie, donkey, Kong, who could punch the moon down again with Bowser he fought Bowser who could survive planets and black holes He fought many just like Sonic amd I don’t like how people are under arresting Mario or giving sonic all the height for when Mario fans is the same. They get called out for it both Mario and sonic right now are pretty much equal to each other in strengths and sure sonic has battled gods but so did Mario in the game Mario + rabbits sparks of Hope but if that’s not cannon then with his fair share of weird things that makes him be pretty powerful like Bowser fury, he literally fought a Bowser so powerful he has to use a ancient powerful thing that made him basically a cat God of some sort Mario dealt with his earth and time being warped in wonder
Absolutely No, Mario vs Sonic was always close, and victory could go to either of them
@@ApoloEditor fr
@@ApoloEditornot really
8:05 - 8:26 I can't actually believe they didn't think for a moment that it's a mechanic 💀💀 Great Video. Still Processing the ending tho
From the Sonic Channel, which is close to what you presented on the scan around 2:46, with regards to running speed, it says "supersonic" (超音速) with the asterisk symbol next to his running speed where they include in for his lightspeed dash/attack. And with Super Sonic, which you seem to not like what they used a statement from Super Smash Bros., it too is a statement from Sonic Channel, where his flight speed is "sub-light speed" (亜光速).
But still, Death Battle does seem to always leave out information when they do their research.
@@GreatSageGokuSources are appreciated, thank you. Don't take this next bit as any slight against you.
But in my opinion, feats take precedent over statements. And Sonic has actual immeasurable speed feats.
Dated Statements don't downscale him anywhere. Ian Flynn confirmed he can move in a timeless void
"i finally did it" ahh stare
Im glad bowser won because he stomps Eggman but in mario vs Sonic the hedgehog Cleary wins
Edit: sonic beats mario while bowser beats Eggman yall cannot convince me Otherwise
Mario beats Sonic even if Death Battle redoes it again
Egg man technically beat bowser when he pissed on him but bowser got resurrected and beat him. Respect your opinion though
Egg man technically beat bowser when he pissed on him but bowser got resurrected and beat him. Respect your opinion though
TBF, they did the real battle years ago, they just made this one to please people that say the results are BS to this day. Honestly, if all I had to do was make a video to stop people from complaining about something I did years ago, I’d do it for some peace, and quiet.
no they used composite in the first fight
I fully respect you thinking Sonic wins (I’m not sure myself who I think would win) but saying that Mario caps at mtfl is downplaying him a lot. I really think you need to do some more research on Mario scaling. Nice vid and new sub though.
That's the best speed feat I could find for him. My apologies if he's hiding something special I'm just not aware of currently.
Can u share feats above it pls
@@Edu_Gamer-cu8tx i can Mario flying to another universe in 64 (flies from Bowser in the Sky back to the Mushroom Universe, the universe is infinite), Mario moving up the infinite staircase (stated in multiple guides as something Mario can do and it's worded this way), can move completely unaffected by the changing flow of time in Tick Tock Clock (even though time flows backwards at points in the manga and in the Mario Kart stage), can freely jump across time in Yoshi's New Island, can react to the Starship in Galaxy 2 which is repeatedly stated to be able to cross/transcend space and time, can move in a black hole beyond space and time in Mario Party 8 (might be 9), can move in a dimension beyond space and time in the Super Mario World Show, can move in a place that transcends dimensions and the boundaries of space and time (the Cutout realm), can move in some "super-dimensional realm" and a world beyond space itself in Super Paper Mario (the former taken from the save file description, the latter is said about the Woah Zone), can move in the Void, which is beyond all worlds in Mario (including ones beyond space and time and dimensions), can fight Bowser, who can shoot himself through time in the CoroCoro manga, can react while moving across space and time in the second movie, can fight Culex, who can consume all of space and time, can react to Huey/the Black Paint, which can spread across the space of the whole universe, can react to Bowser in Mario Party 5, who Misstar thought could destroy "every dream in the Dream Depot one by one in no time" even though there's more than infinite of them, and other examples.
Death Battle literally doesn’t understand continuity at all. They tried using non-canon feats, scaling and moments to massively lowball Sonic. Also: Did they even play or watch Smash Bros Brawl? 💀
Paper mario can't be the strongest,
When he LITERALLY jumped Super dimensionial with peach,bowser (and another guy) plus weakening him with the pure hearts making him lose his invincibility and most of his stats. They gave mario and his friends boost and before that,Mario was even gonna give up.
People can't say that every Mario are the same,when there was a CROSSOVER between paper Mario with the Mario and Luigi series. And the creator of Mario saying that every Mario are the same,is an author fallacy . Which means that,there representation of the character isn't always the right one. By example,one of Archie sonic's writer said that he couldn't beat Goku.... We all know Archie obliterated Goku.
And even if Mario had his invincibility leaf(die 5 times to get it),he can't fly, can't do energy attacks and can die by fucking lava. Super sonic,when reaching a certain speed,can create a BLACK HOLE . And super sonic can just wish Mario to disappear by using the chaos emeralds.
Finally! A Mario fan with common sense
@@DivineGrace323 the people saying that Mario has a chance to win... Are completely and definitely delusional...
@@nathanbardol1236 THANK YOU 😭🙏
Aint no way they compared the plumber to Dark Gia.....whats next they compare Wario to Mephilies the Dark
As much as I agree with the video, I do gotta point out how they were speaking about reaction time feats. Not travel speed. 10:03
Fair enough.
Death Battle has always been a really cool concept- but they literally said one time “So how is this person gonna win?” Before doing any actual research during a podcast they did. They kinda just pick who they think or should win prior to any additional research. It’s great animations, great fights and a lovely concept. Buts it’s clear it’s biased
4:33 This isn't immeasurable speed let alone irrelevant. Even ignoring the fact that this isn't calculable in any way, immeasurable speed is just being able to travel through time with sheer speed alone, that's not what Sonic is doing in generations
"When the Sonic's accelerate through time"
That is THE definition of immeasurable speed.
With Irrelevant speed, the concepts of distance lose meaning or relevance, which you could argue is the case with the next line Tails said.
"They fix space"
But immeasurable is definitely a safer best.
@Unremarkable6969 When it's said they "accelerate through time" they mean accelerating through the White Space. Time literally doesn't exist for a large portion of the game because the Time Eater erased it
@@Unremarkable6969 yeah immeasurable speed means you can travel through time and that’s not what’s sonic doing
@@ashuraomega1000 that would mean that their speed is irrelevant since there’s no time and there is also no space they were moving so fast to they were able to fix space and time aka you are irrelevant speed
Yeah, and undoing that with sheer speed, that's where the feat comes in.
I love this video finally someone is talking about this death battle. I've seen this like 5 times, it's so funny, and so true
Death battle is absolute BS...
Its all Manipulation game to see who can convince the owner (ben b singer) who wins.
Because Sonic clapped by a plumber? That's based
@@secondgamer141 because there was no metal pipe sound.
@@TheRokakakaFruit Whatever
I liked Shredder VS Silver Samurai
Mario can’t even use the star, since sonic would steal it the moment he sees it. Activating it for himself.
Nah, you got Maginaryworld stuff wrong. Maginaryworld only contains 3-D dreams, 4th Dimension Space is a infinite 4-dimensional space which exists outside of these dreams and see them as mere screens. The actual proper way to get 5-D is to scale above Illumina who dreamed the 4th Dimension Space.
Yap yap
@@chaoticchaos2177 meet me in my office grey
My mistake then
The whole Maginaryworld stuff is hugely overblown anyway. Maginaryworld is merely comprised of regular dreams which are inherently 0 dimensional since they only exist as figments of people's imaginations meaning they scale nowhere. This is different from the Dream Depot in Mario where dreams actually have their own space-times
@@IsaiahJones-rw1pc Are you forgetting that they are dreams turned into reality? Literally the only reason why the dreams could be interacted is because they were transformed into the same plane of existence as the real world.
Their literal argument against 10:40 is "defeating solaris and time eater does not automatically put super sonic on overall universal levels, particularly since those enemies universe threatening capabilities stem from powers sonic does not possess"
🤦♂️ 💀
Speaking of, knuckles should have absolutely beat donkey Kong. They glaze Nintendo so much bro 😭
I’m literally so glad tyrecords covered this battle
That guy does not know how to scale, he downplayed Mario and tried to say Omni Man was only city level 💀
@@ashuraomega1000 he has some good takes and some bad
@@ashuraomega1000 but his sonic scaling is on point
@@HollowThePumpkinno he's biased and got a lot of things wrong
Also it was stated that super sonic alone could beat solaris
Ooooh, really? You know where I can look for that?
I'm pretty sure you can just search it
Let me search real quick
Turns out, @@Unremarkable6969 Sonic, Shdow, and Silver all 1v1ed Solaris. Just in different times. Just wanted to let you know if I'm correct. :)
@Sonic_the_hedghog_1991 hmmmmmmmmmmmm
Cool
They did (Classic) Sonic disgusting dirty by making him die to a nuke
Also remember this: NINTENDO THEIRSELVES KNOW SONIC WINS
Sorry to say this but Mario takes this here is something you can think about while Sonic is faster than Mario he will only deliver weak attacks on Mario since Mario is stronger and more durable hence while Mario is slower than Sonic if he can get close to sonic which he can then Mario could deliver more serious attacks on Sonic, the OVA Sonic was supported since they said anything that was close connection to the games counts to the scaling (OVA was scaled to CD), even if we assume the Super Form has no time limit (somehow) Mario can still beat it since he has a very wide arsenal to last long with the super form and wear Super Sonic down, In the Solaris and Time Eater they did not put Super Sonic at Multiversal for starters Time Eater was a cosmic being that threatened the timeline BUT a destruction of the Time line is not the same as the destruction of a multiverse think of it as if Time Eater having Time Manipulation, and as for Solaris, Eggman stated to Sonic, Shadow, Silver that their super forms do not stand a chance against Solaris the reason team sss won was because Solaris exposed his core and Sonic, Shadow, and Silver exploited it to beat it and keep in mind it required all 3 hedgehogs to pull it off MEANING Super Sonic could not be scaled to Solaris AT ALL
I can't tell if you're being serious or not.
@@Unremarkable6969i am, I know both of the characters well
Okay, there are a few problems here, but a couple main ones.
One, the Sonic OVA is not canon. By any stretch of the imagination. It isn't even a tie in to CD, since it has Knuckles in it.
Two, scaling dictates that if you can beat someone, you're stronger than them. And Sonic, even if he had help, still beat Solaris and the Time Eater.
Especially Solaris, stated to be a Super Dimensional being, that really amps Sonic up. For comparison, Extra Dimensional is a tier lower than Super Dimensional, and Extra Dimensional is anything from 5D to 10D.
Nope the defeat of Solaris was impossible on his own since Solaris existed in the past present and future Sonic would likely need to destroy them all but he couldn't do it alone, also again Eggman stated that Solaris' cosmic armor made him well protected and even the super forms couldn't bypass the defense the reason they won was they targeted the core once it was revealed Sonic and friends managed to exploit it and defeat him
By the nature of being a Super Dimensional being, even being able to do that much still amps Sonic greatly.
I love how he keeps showing off that generations feat cuz of how it shows how op sonic is
Death battle was definitely playing favorites here there was no way in hell they didnt have sonic lose because they think Mario was better there using movie ans tv shows as there fucking analysis other then the fucking games. And what makes them think mario could keep up with someone with immeasurable speed!!! Someone who casually moves at the speeds of light to someone who is around realistically the speed sound or less at best he shoudnt be able to touch sonic much less hurt him since Sonic himself says he gets stronger and has beaten enemies he had previously fought as super sonic like litterally they were seriously playing favorites sonic wouldnt have even needed to go super against him realistically but oh well its death battle. And its all for entertainment and all but there lack in care for sticking to there own rules and using other continuites but the main games just says a lot.
And like sonic was literally created to be BETTER than Mario as a character n raw power, it was said by sega in the first interviews of the game (when console wars was a thing), Mario's Adventures have evolved over time but always the big bad is bowser Who shouldnt scale above big City lvl at most, sonic's big bads are time eaters, gods, eldritch horrors, HUGE creatures, Mario has no chance against someone who is way faster n obviously stronger
Even if it's all for entertainment, I wasn't really even entertained sooooooo
@Unremarkable6969 Damn I agree to the extent that the analysis was bullshit but the animation was cool at least.
@@ricardator1023Bowser is more than city level. He's multiversal +
@@TTVJOJO41323 thats only said cause of Mario galaxy and wonder. But they didnt measured the actual size of the galaxy and besides, those "planets" he conquers are at best planetoids, while most are not even continent size, having the tech or ability to move through space does not grant you planetary lvl strenght/power
This guy's really knows what he's talking about
The fact when you realise that some Mario fans says that Mario is faster stronger smarter than sonic
I agreed with the smarter one, but what the heck do they mean by faster and stronger? and why do they include paper Mario? Like I know Nintendo said that every Mario is the same Mario including paper Mario. but that doesn’t mean that is true. Like one time sega said “ everything is Canon “ but does that doesn’t mean everything is Canon okay, that mine was just for a joke. but one time sega also said that sonic only runs away from Amy because he’s too shy that absolutely isn’t true because in the games sonic only run away from Amy because he thinks he’s too cool for a relationship and that could slow him down. and mean he doesn’t see her as his friend! are we gonna also ignore the fact that one time in paper Mario there were two different Marios and bowsers
say I’m mad, but I don’t care sonic defeats Mario with high dff
-
There's definitely an argument for "death of the author" in some cases.
@@Unremarkable6969wdym
I say Mario is stronger than Sonic, after all he is the powerhouse plumber
Even as someone who didn’t really know that much about power scaling in terms of sonic and Mario, I still thought it was ridiculous. How hyper sonic a form which gives sonic all of his supersonic abilities, increased tenfold, plus the ability to breathe in the water yet he lost to Mario’s furry persona felt and still feels really ridiculous to me. And now actually having some form of of grass of the abilities of sonic in not only the games but also in other stuff, especially Archie makes it feel even more ridiculous to me.
Okay, not gonna lie, until you started ACTUALLY calculating... I wasn't paying attention but that was mainly bc Death battle + any type of math = obvious mistakes
also.. how did they miss Generations 💀
@@Kyle_Prado2718 the only math I did for this video was on a calculator so :3
@@Unremarkable6969 Lol. Meanwhile Death Battle with their math:
*shows inconsistent work*
One of 2 scenarios would happen in the fight
Sonic goes hyper and speed blitz Mario leaving a massive hole in his body, sonic goes hyper and Mario uses a star and sonic waits it out before blowing a hole through him, this fight was never close because speed is ultimately the most important stat and when your millions of times faster well shit this becomes a one sided beatdown
I mean...the chaos control thing is kinda stupid anyway, because Sonic in the main story of Adventure 2 was able to use it with a FAKE chaos emerald. In base form. There's no fuckin' way I'm buying he can't use it with all 7 upgraded super emeralds. The original video with the sprites was WAY better. Still nowhere near accurate, but at least they had the right conclusion in that one.
I will always prefer Death Battle's sprite animations, compared to anything else. Their 3D stuff isn't bad either. But the 2D drawn stuff just never looks good and isn't very Death Battle.
@Unremarkable6969 I think my favorite visually is the Link v Cloud remake. The song of storms, splitting with the four sword, it's just full of cool looking spectacle. I agree, though. The sprites look way better than the 2D drawn stuff.
Archie Sonic would murder Every Mario and CC Goku... Fused.
Mario and Paper Mario are pretty blatantly the same guy NGL Wiz (read the codex wiki page on Paper Mario canonicity for the evidence) even then, they kinda scale to each other anyway through Paper Jam
If you use Paper Jam to scale mainline Mario to Paper Mario, you can easily scale mainline Sonic to Archie Sonic, based on writer Ian Flynn saying that a fight between the two would be close.
@@CalebWhite-l6n But I'll look into Paper Mario, and the feats from that series. This is highly appreciated.
@CalebWhite-l6n oh
Yeah, nevermind, Flynn clearly isn't a power scaler.
No they're not, there's evidence behind this, including the latest Paper Mario titles, Sticker Star, Color Splash, and especially Origami King! They are not cannon to each other. Also, keep in mind, Mario's creator is Anti.-story, meaning he's not that reliable when it comes to Mario's stories, only the actual writers of these Mario games that Mario's creator isn't in charge of.
@@Spider-Man-257TOK proves that they are the same
Death Battle just might be the best when it comes to downplaying OP characters