Vlog: 2CV gets a tune! Has it made a difference?
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- Опубликовано: 6 окт 2024
- Sadly, I couldn't film the work, but Sparrow Automotive has carried out a fair bit of work on Elly the 2CV. Has it made a difference? Previously, she was feeling a bit flat and leaking oil all over the place. A new oil cooler, timing tweaks and a LOT of carburettor jet tweaks were involved.
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Would love to see you do a comparison with Ellie v a Dyane v a Renault 4.
@@patrickl2195 that's 10 cylinders of raw, unbridled horsepower!
Did Peugeot do a comparative model back in the day?
A man who knows his way around a fuel system is priceless. It seems almost magical how much better a car can drive after a carburettor wizard has breathed on it.
Sadly becoming a rarity these days, as 99% of cars need plugging in.
Good to see the old skills still alive in a few places
I just *love* your 2cv driving videos. I think I rewatched Croatia series like 3 times now. The sounds, that steering wheel and your evident love for Elly makes for such enjoyable watching. Thanks for sharing it with us!
As queen of the fleet, it is good to see her getting the TLC she deserves - perhaps we could start sending Pete Sparrow money, so there is always money on account for her loving care and attention. She definitely deserves pampering.
I just bought exactly the same car as you : english Dolly RHD red and white. Bought yesterday in ... France ! It will be funny to drive it in France.
Pete at Sparrow Engineering sounds like a really interesting guy. It's lovely to see a 2CV owner with a huge grin because his motor is giving serious fun factor. I'm used to classic Norton motorcycle tuning, often having to deal with worn carbs and you're absolutely right about the foibles of carburetion. All sorts of factors come into play. Hope you get to enjoy Ellie for what's left of the good weather.
I think it would be fun to install 2 constant vacume carbs from a motorbike on the 2CV engine. There is a vast choice of tuning jets and needles available for those with which you could dial in the tune to perfection. And the breathing improvement might make the engine pick up some extra power as well.
@@jfv65 This has been done, presumably w/ success, on some of the aircraft conversions using this engine; the one I saw used a pair of Mikunis, and was good for maybe 40 HP--enough for a single seat experimental-type aircraft. A couple of the A/C I've flown used engines (HKS and Rotax 912) which had a pair of Bing 64 model carbs; the advantage of the CV type is that they compensate for higher altitude, at least to some degree, automatically.
Two carbs apparently works very well. Far better from an inlet point of view.
Ahh, Ellie is singing once more!!! When it comes to carbs I leave it to people who know more than me as well..!!! Cheers Ian..
Love this car.
Another great video Ian. I can honestly see the attraction of driving a 2CV as they seem so visceral to drive as in you can feel the road, the mechanics working almost like a go kart!👍
Now you need to sort the rust issues out.👍
Lovely to see you enjoying the Welsh countryside in a much happier Elly!
When you think where that engine started and what you went on to do with it in such a short time it's remarkable really. Top job 👍
Le Bonheur tout simplement...merci pour ces images .
Brilliant video Ian nice to see Elly glad she's ok
Elly's engine sounds so much smoother now (compared to earlier videos), especially at the top end.
BMW bike engine conversion! You just have to try out one of those.
He did, back in 2015. It's on the channel. A short and very shaky video.
Yup. I need to try another... A friend has one with a supercharged BMW bike engine and about 145bhp!
@@HubNut I hope Sparrow has uprated the braking system?
@@HubNut That sounds insane! Would love to see a video with such a beast 🙂
what the new 1800? :-)
Elly is sounding really good in the video. Great to see she is running well after that service
So glad to see her out and about enjoying the day.❤️😊
My family members have been spoiled too long with powerful and fuel injected engines, aircon, leather seats, digital dashboard and safety features all around (all in a 1980s car) that I could never justify the expense of buying a 2CV. Hearing the whining sound of the engine and gearbox brings back so many good memories, if I had the money, space and time to spare I would really want one.
This is one broadcast which always cheers me up. Love the dry humour.
A lovely day, open roof, driving, talking... I'm fine with that (and that Elly is better now!)
So good to see and hear Ellie running so well. Also great to see you so delighted with her.
As to the carb, US auto writer Dick O'Kane said, speaking to novice foreign car owners in the 1960s, "Carburetor is a French word, meaning 'leave it alone.'"
Still remember the old 2CVs with sheet metal roofs welded on. A cheaper replacement option of the ripped canvas. Also practiced on Dyane 6.
A little lightweight car like a 2CV using a motorcycle engine sounds a pretty nice combination to me.
Specially since you can get them up to 1250cc (136hp!)
I'm guessing transverse engines will be an easier fit, like the BMW mentioned in the video. There are a few others, like a Honda CX650T which comes with a bonus (a turbo). It would need a bell housing adapter and a clutch conversion, if not using the bikes internal clutch basket.
I would think a Subaru boxer (eg. old 1800 without OHC) might be easier to wedge in there.. would be fun to see if it could be made to fit...
Sooner or later, someone is going to fit one of the new R18 motors in a 2CV.
@Lassi Kinnunen I think BMW boxer motors are the conversion of choice because they have the same architecture as the 2CV: air-cooled flat twins with a longitudinal crankshaft designed to mate to a separate gearbox behind the engine. A Yamaha R1 would have to have the drive turned through 90 degrees and because the gearbox is integral with the engine, it would require major surgery to mate the engine to the Citroen transmission. If you decide to keep the Yamaha gearbox, you still have the issue of driving the front wheels and you need to figure how to fit a reverse.
@@EngineeringVignettes Technically, BMW Boxer engines are longitudinal engines: you have to consider the orientation of the crankshaft.
My goodness he has done a cracking job. Almost as good as new. So smooth and silky
Glad she feels smoother and it's amazing how much aggravation a worn carb can cause 😞 look forward to seeing more tinkering videos
Great to see elly running smoothly again, well done sparrow automotive. 👍👍
You’re echoing my experience with my MG; when the car feels good, so do I. A recent change of spark plugs, along with adjustments to the choke and mixture, have provided some very satisfying driving... lovely Fall weather isn’t hurting, either! Best regards -
So the jist of all this Ian, is I think you are over the moon with the improvements.😀.
Lovely Jubbly, worth every penny if it put that smile on your face, hey Mr HubNut.
Lovely car! Must admit to disliking 2CV's when I was young but I'd love one now. Would make a nice companion for my Morris Minor.👍
Happy motoring!
Gaining of knowledge is always interesting at any level. Thank you.
Elly giving love as she was given much needed love to get her back to full fettle!
I don't know about Welsh winters, how cold it gets there, but that could be a way to find out how better she runs in colder weather. It has gotten quite cold overnight here in upstate New York. I think you have to do a lot of videos to pay for this, or hopefully Sparrow automotive will give you a break, I hope they do. An expert knows exactly how to extract the most out of a vehicle, it is why they are an expert in their field. Elly certainly sounds better, as others have mentioned, which is very, very good, and shows the wonderful expertise of Sparrow automotive in the UK 🇬🇧. Only time will find out if Elly will behave, pretty sure she will.
Well done Mr. HubNut!
Yes, tuning for different temperatures is part of the art. Pete said he had to bear in mind that she'd see winter use, different humidities etc.
When they run well, these little twins are magnificent!
So good to see a very happy Hubnut!
That sounds sweet.. very smooth and free revving 👌
She sounds so much smoother, almost refined.
It's always good to have some Elly hooning in a video!
Nice to see you enjoying a revised Elly on a nice, Welsh day! Took me a minute to realize what "first choke behavior" meant, until I recalled it means "driveability" on the primary choke/barrel (thought it had to do w/ cold-start characteristics at first). Possibly a good addition would be a CHT gauge, much like Pete's "720"; the one he installed is very much like twin-cylinder-powered aircraft engines; easy to tell if one of the needles (gauge needles, that is) is "off". Also a similarly-laid-out EGT. Probably more handy on a twin-carbureted set up...
I do actually have a CHT gauge, but I removed it because I just kept worrying about it...
Sounds musical enough to me. Cars go so much better after a service.
The magic of Pete!
I want to sleep at Sparrow Automotive.....that way every day I wake up I will get that fantastic Citroen vista as my first sight of the day
I love that road, I drove it each way after the HubNut social last October.
Where is the road Richard? Fancy a drive down it myself as I’m fairly close to the mid Welsh border.
Matt Y the B4574 from Rhayader through Cwmystwyth to Devils Bridge , can take a loop via Elan village past the reservoirs.
A mechanic who understands carburation is one of a dying breed nowadays!
Hey Mr Hubnut.. You keep pushing your glasses back up. I used to do that. Get yourself some sports tape and wrap some around the end of each arm.. Life changer..!
You can tell the difference from the 720, but Elly now seems to have more of that tractability "power under the curve" that the 720 had, and much less need to thrash it to keep it on cam. Elly seems about 20% quieter than previously too, and less harsh. Maybe that is just the different recording microphone? Or possibly just less need to drop it an extra gear. Talking of which, I'm impressed that the speech is quite clear even with Elly's vocal cords being exercised. Lovely day for it too!
Elly sounds fabulous again - such a cool car!
Love it when we get a job like this done to our cars. All that money but you can actually feel the difference
I'm sure I can hear that it pulls more cleanly. Might just be imagination, but good to hear that Elly is on better form regardless.
I recon a 720 conversion and those bars to reduce kingpin wear (etc) are worthy Elly upgrades. Your press on driving style (which I personally fully approve of btw) does warrant such mods on ya 20th year together. Another crowd fund and a few video’s maybe?!
I always thought that the best videos were where hubby was sat there ranting at us anyway
Happy Elllie = Happy HubNut. Well done Pete. Can I have one of your 752cc cars please?
I wondered what that noise was - sounded a bit like piston slap, but loose baffles makes sense too!
Yeah, we did discuss piston slap. Just isn't quite the right noise.
What a great little tank.
I could never use 4th gear under 40mph in either my 2CV or Ami8! However as they basically had the same engine the Ami went better! Must be aerodynamics!
Elly sounds great now
It sounds like it's at least half as much improvement as the 720. Nice one.😁
Easy to forget about carburettors since everything's been injected since 1993/1994. Makes you wonder multi carburettored high output American muscle cars were kept in tune.
Indeed. Triple carbs on a Jaguar XK, four on the V12!
Yes, Elly is sounding very happy! :-)
Sounds well Ian 👍
I would like to see a video with Elly fully loaded. Many years ago Myself and 4 others were in a 2CV and the driver was saying what a different beast it was. Low to the ground a sooo sloooow
Yup, makes the steering seriously heavy too as it affects the steering geometry!
Tuning carburetors like tuning pianos not easy fuel injection made things a lot better on later cars nice to hear Ellie purring away
A lot of fuel injection tuneups on modern engines utilize laptops...see some of the "Cleetus McFarland" videos for examples--a quick way to "throw a spicier tune" on those LS engines they use.
Every pony is precious on those, keep the engine decoked and the valves at at the smallest of the valve gap range (for best lift)
I have never decoked a 2CV engine. They don't need it! We generally run slightly wider valve clearances than stock, due to modern fuels. Risk burning valves otherwise.
Elly sounds so happy 😄
You need to add a turbo . To give you some more extra power
Also an issue with carbureted cars, the fuel that they were designed to run on doesn't exist anymore, so even if the car was correctly set up to manufacturer specs, it might not be right for the modern fuel. Just a thought for people with older cars.
Indeed. We already run larger first choke jets in 2CVs to combat modern fuels.
Heh, I do that. See two or more cars of a certain age/marque/type and say "I wonder what's going on around here", thinking I've missed a car show.
be great to have a list of all these places, i just found 2cv city for a galv chassis at £450
11:25 is how I felt last night after falling down a RUclips rabbit hole and found myself watching almost an entire episode of "Let's Pretend" from 1983! I may have to get confirmation from Pete.
Seeing how great Elly drives now, it's a wonder how you were able to drive her for so long in her previous untuned condition.
Yup! I knew the ignition was retarded when I was on the Croatia trip. She did remarkably well.
Emusion tubes, jets, power, economy. Familiar words after a visit with Pete
That and 'future upgrades...'
What is about that little car with 1930 technology "that gets you going" everyone that is. It sounds Lovely😀😁😁😁😂
I have marshaled a few 2CV races. They are good fun
Also a friend of mine had a 2CV with a GS engine in it. If I remember correctly it was originally built by Darryl Stokes as a rally car with fly off hand brake etc. We used to call it the Thunder Frog, it had two straight though exhausts one each side
Ah, what better way to enjoy my lunch break from gardening.
Glad Elly is feeling better, was wondering when you said hours of tinkering with carb must surely mean 💰 💰 ?
Would it not have been cheaper just to fit a fully refurbished carb ?
Perhaps there unobtainable now but glad she's found some professional love 😯
A brand new carb would still need rejetting for the larger engine.
Elly is quieter and smoother than it was. I think. Pete 🇬🇧
i dunno how is petrol in uk, but i would give cleaner additive.
will take gunk out.
good point, pedal should not be on or off in power delivery
Glad Elly is better
She purs like kitten now. 🤩🤩🤩🤩
Why do i feel like Ian got bitten by the "power" bug from that other 2cv? It cant be a coincidence.
He's been bitten by the power bug ever since he went to NZ and Aus and drove all the V8 and 6 cylinder beasts
I miss my 2CVs, lovely things
Whatever he charges you for the work, you'll reap the rewards in fuel savings and smiles per gallon!
Good work by Captain jack sparrow, you made a man very Happy.
Now is the best time to be careful with the throttle, don't over rev it
Thought you might be sporting the new flat cap rather than the baseball cap.😎😎
Left it at the unit...
Sounds amazing, but a bit odd that you don't know how much the work has cost?
Can i see more of the vecy? 👍🏴
Slightly sad that there was no comment about the lovely collie dog in the garage..!
All the best garages have a dog.
Brain confused with talk of 720s. Is there a LongTail conversion test next week?
Ellen is easily my favorite car in your fleet. I want a 2CV Charleston eventually. Being in the U.S., they're costly and difficult to find
Their costly in the U.K and Europe, so I dread to think how much they cost in the U.S.A😱
@@matty6848 Enough so that it tempts me to take a trip to Europe to find a decent example and ship it home.
wolfman9999999 yes wolf man probably a good idea. I imagine you’d have to get some quotes on transportation costs/shipping them how much it would cost to register the car in the U.S? I’ve seen some lovely clean examples in Britain in the last few years & I’m sure Ian would be willing to help out and give you some good contacts in Britain, but obviously ours are right hand drive for left hand side roads so mainland Europe would be a better choice where they drive in the right like the U.S. I take it they very rare no in the U.S? Have you looked around the South American market to see if you could get one there? Mexico etc?
@@matty6848 I've never seen any for sale in Mexico. That's a country you don't want to go into with the drug cartels running things. I haven't looked too much into shipping costs yet. I don't have space to store any more vehicles at current, especially out of winter weather in a state that salts everything. 2CVs aren't exactly resistant to rusting.
wolfman9999999 yep agreed. Mexico is one dangerous place to be if you have no personal protection or know where your going so I wouldn’t take the chance either. And your right about the winter weather, when authorities lay that salt down on the roads it just wrecks your car. Our Highway maintenance do the same in the U.K during the winter, And if you have a old car the salt just eats away at the paintwork and body. So maybe Europe is your best chance at getting a decent 2CV once you have the room in your garage🤞🙏🏼
Makes you wonder why the 652cc kit includes carburettor jets that are apparently wrong?
There is a fairly considerable difference of opinion about the jetting, depending on who you speak to. But, an extra issue is due to wear, manufacturing changes and age, there really aren't any two carburettors that are the same.
Wouldn't have the brake problem if it was pre 1982 with drum brakes all round :-)
You can't release videos just before I have to leave for work, very inconsiderate of you, I suppose I can squeeze it in🤪
Low rev problems sounds like idle-jetting issues to me in my limited knowledge, but I'm basing that assumption purely on experience with lawnmower engine carburettor issues I've had (which of course a 2CV isn't that much of an upgrade from!!), not actually knowing how a 2CV's carb works having never taken one to bits, the Haynes manuals can only show so much before practical experience is needed... :P
Yes, getting the first choke behaviour correct is the real trick. It's where you do most of your driving after all.
where's the blue denim cap
At the unit. Helpful!
I actually thought it suited Ian😁👍
Hello Ian.
Have you considered of transplanning an engine 1015 cc of the earlier GS models?
If the space is enough it would be an ideal solution.
It isn't an easy fit in a 2CV, and requires either bulkhead chopping (as per the James Bond 2CVs) or extending the front end, which looks awful. BMW motorbike a better option for serious power.
Plus an ami super chassis
Small changes make big changes in a low powered car!
With the current labor costs, it could have been cheaper to swap the carburetor.
But a new carb would still need tuning to the larger engine.
@@HubNut True, I have a friend with a 2CV that did a 652cc conversion with a new carb. After run-in (2000 km) went to the Burton dyno days. In around an hour the engine was tuned with the proper jets.
Nice job by Pete! Did he fit that vacuum tube too?
No, but it's a mod I'm considering.
Hi Ian, can you tell me please how your carb is jetted now, fuel and air jets? I assume you have an 18-26 venturi Solex 26/35, right? And have you considered a 21-26 venturi one?
Elly is currently running a 602. I'm told a Visa carb is better, which maybe has a large Venturi? Specialists recommend a larger first choke jet - 107.5. I can't recall what Elly is actually running at the moment as she had some tuning work done by Sparrow Automotive.
Is there a fuel injection conversion kit for 2CV’s? Would be interesting .
No, but several specialists, including Sparrow, are keen to do it. The expense is an issue though.
I was wondering if you had thought about electronic fuel injection.
There are a number of generic kits out there such as 'megasquirt'. Not sure if they are road legal or not but a video titled 'fuel injection, teaching and old dog new tricks' would be a good one for the future.... 🤔😉