Thank God there's people like you passing this knowledge on. Just because these buyers are wealthy doesn't mean they have any real expertise in yachts. 🇦🇺 😊
Thank you. 40 year mariner, 26 year master. Would never (EVER) sail on an unclassed vessel. Please emphasise the more rigorous classification societies.
Absolutely agree on all points. 20 years in the game and the fact that vessels are not being built to class or LY3 is not just unbelievable but unforgivable really
Thankfully Tristran you speak with honesty and commitment. Not knowing the whole story, I hope the owner takes appropriate action, ideally before final payment. Hat's off to you for declining the offer.
There probably isn't a lot of action they can take. They signed the contract. As long as the builder followed the contract, there is nothing to be done. The courts aren't going to have any sympathy for someone that signs an 8-figure contract without getting independent advice.
I remember watching a video with Alexi from Bering yachts saying that he turned down a couple of potential clients because they wanted to cut costs by trying to build outside of class. I'd rather be told no to building a yacht that could launch a submarine rather than to have the whole ship sink due to my own stupidity. But that's just me. 🤷♂
It is sad for the owner that he got 'screwed' by the yard, but it also tells a lot about the yard they did this in the first place. Any company, proud of their product, would have advised the owner to think about all these things and then, after they realize the owner is not familiar with it, would have advised him to get someone who knows what is going on. Last year in Rhodes a Turkish built yacht (appr 25 mtr) was lying next to us and that thing was beyond unstable. Just a bit of wind and it would heel over..............in the marina. After a couple of days the captain approached us and asked us if we knew anyone who was looking for a captain. He did not want to be on board anymore. Told us that he had house hold plumbing in the boat, meaning the good old grey pipes and connectors. The whole boat was wired with house hold electrical cables and the list went on and on. Sure it was a flashy boat, with lots of all colored lights and a great sound system, but that was about it. Am not sure, but I have the idea that a lot of wannabe's are jumping into the yacht market, designing a flashy boat and hope to sell one (or more), but having no clue of what they are building or what is required. In Turkey the 'flipping a boat' business is now booming. They buy an old super yacht, preferably one that had an accident, refurbish it in the cheapest possible way and sell it for a lot of money (between 5 and 10 million euro). Same is going on within the charter business. Lots of shady companies getting into this booming business. They buy themselves a flashy yacht, interior looks fine, but the technical state of the boat is horrible. The clients fall for the interior and then get confronted with failing equipment, cutting the charter short. Seen it all over Greece and Turkey last year. I.o.w. there are a lot of cowboys out there and that means a lot of work for you to guide new owners through this mess. Great video and sad story. Let us know what the owner did with the yacht.
@@brandonadams7837Oh c’mon! 🙄 The broker for their hefty fee of 10% will sell you anything! They are basically equivalent of cars salesman! For that kind of money it’s better to go with the personal and loyal project manager, plus an army of lawyers and independent surveyors and engineers! All written up in legal contracts and obligations! Money in the escrow account and released as the project go by the book!
We have been in Turkiye for the past 4 years and what you described here is Turkiye in general with anything they build from villas, to caravans to tiny houses. You have to do your homework well if you are going to buy anything in " cut corners" Turkiye. Their economy is so bad and their import taxes so high they cut corners everywhere.
Well said its nice to see a person who isn't just thinking about himself I have followed Tristan since he first started and I can honestly say I have never heared or seen a more dedicated Captain or with as much integrity, honesty and loyalty and as well liked by all ,if i was buying or building a yacht he would be my first stop,I have no skin in this game but its nice to point out the good guys now and then,
Couldn’t agree more.That is going to be unsellable. Had a similar experience of an owner building a boat with no representation, (although this boat was built to Class and LY3) however, left unsupervised the yard cut every single corner they could. The boat was a disaster. Owners: Appoint or involve your Captain from DAY ONE!!!
Would like to see maybe 6 videos exploring each of the areas you discussed here. What are the commercial minimum requirements? What different regulations apply to yachts >500Gt, before and after the build. What is the cost of employing a broker, captain, surveyor, etc. before the first steel is welded? What exactly would they do to earn their keep? Use an imaginary 50meter, or you choose - to illustrate the concepts and costs. Take the position of someone who could be encouraged to build to private or commercial standard, < or > 500 Gt. Outline the pros and cons at each step, which should include some vague estimate of the cost of going down each path.
If you go to the website of the MCA ( Marine and Coastguard agency) you will find a lot of this stuff there. Technical requirements are fairly extensive. As to trigger points 24m in length ( it’s not Overall length you need to check definition), 500GT and up to or over 12 passengers are all key points where the rules change and the chequebook has to come out. For classification society stuff check out Lloyds in the U.K. as one on the top classification societies, or if in the US ABS is maybe more relevant. There are restrictions on chartering non US built boats in the USA.
I am astonished by this scenario. What could be more precious and carefully maintained than a yard's reputation, which will (and should) take a irreparable hit when the yachting world digests this report? I understand your commitment to confidentiality, but I wish we could know what builder took part in such a grievous pursuit. As an owner, I would want all the help I could get, and the boat built to MAXIMUM standards/classification. Unbelievable, but thanks to you for bringing it to light.
The LYC and CS do not have "maximum standards". Their minimal standards are large, don't think they aren't. So one example is bulwark height (the "walls" on the sea-side of the deck). For example, if a cod says for boat section the 40 inches (1 meter). What is the maximum height? Six feet? Sixty feet? Sixty miles? You can certainly exceed 40 inches and many vessels do, but that doesn't mean there is an easily-stated _maximum._
None of which helps an owner with limited vessel construction/classification experience, hence the wisdom of hiring somebody who is. This owner didn't, and he paid dearly for it. 'Maximum' doesn't have to be a published set of parameters, so excuse my non-literal use of the term.@@darthkek1953
Think of the “minimal standards” that Tristan refers to as similar to the local building code for a house. The building code for a house is effectively the minimum standard for a dwelling unit that can be built in its respective locality. Those minimum standards /building code don’t mean that the vessel / house is on the verge of being unsafe, but rather, those building standards are robust enough to convey a reliable level of safety for the structure being built. Now, the builder of a yacht or a house could always build something that exceeds those minimum standards, but there really are no maximum standards, as, for example, there is no limit to how thick the walls of a house can be.
I have been following you for a few years now. I have never, ever, seen you so angry; your anger was seeping through, and quite rightly so. THank you so much for this. You know who I'll be coming to when I win the euro Lottery😂
Tristan, SV Seeker, built in his back yard, 70' steel hull. 8 digit price tag. Any full custom build, to a standard or not will hit the 8 digit price tag range. Designers like Bruce Roberts who sell plans with a 1 off license to build don't really help with build quality. Most designers will ask which yard you want them to work with so they can oversee the build and make sure it meets spec. I agree, having a surveyor hired to inspect and watch the build on top of the independent designer is a good idea. I also think all yachts should be built to handle brash ice, that clustered ice usually found near glaciers or the edge of an ice cap. Stronger hull is a safer hull.
If I ever win the lottery and decide to buy a super yacht I'll give you a call. Your the kind of captain I would want in charge of it. 🙂 Thanks for the video!
Absolutely agree 100% having served in the capacity of a management level on board VLCC's VLGC, Products carriers and on privet level owning yachts through out, i absolutely agree on the need of Class and surveys to ensure minimal standards applied and defiantly to involve them for a New Build projects. thanks for this informative video really appreciate the effort captain. Keep them coming please.
WOW That is so dangerous! My dad was a plumber and he went to a home that was built without building codes. That is the same thing you are speaking of with that yacht. Not building it to commercial or class is like building a home without building codes. So, My dad went to this house. The owner bought it a week before and now there was hot water flowing out of the ceiling of the home. He got there, could not find a main shut off valve to the home so climbed in the attic to see what the issue was and all water lines, hot and cold were plumbed with a cheap garden hose. Of course, garden hose is not rated to hold hot water. In the end, they have to remove all walls, ceilings and floors in the home and replace all the plumbing. They had to clean all the mold off the wall studs from the leaking hoses. They had to have the water turned off at the main and install a main shut off for the home. So, the homeowner basically paid for a house and property but had to completely rebuild the home due to the home not built to a code. So his million-dollar home cost him 2.5 million dollars. And when it was all done, it was still only valued at 1 million dollars. So always have a survey on your boat and a home inspection on your home and ALWAYS have your yacht built to commercial and to class and your home built with codes.
Your story reminds me of an incident in the sixties.While riding my motorcycle to work,as an apprentice plumber,I passed a row of stone fronted terrace houses,one of the middle dwellings had the roof & frontage blown out,also inner connecting walls too.I later heard that this house had gas ovens & fires on all levels including attic & cellar.All these appliances were connected to garden hose.This resulted in not only deaths in the middle terrace,but deaths on either side.
@@glennwatson1755 WOW! yeah building to a code is a very good idea to avoid such thing. Can you even imagine how bad a yacht build could be with no code? laughs
I really enjoy watching your videos and your enthusiasm and care for the industry is clearly shown in this video. I can see the frustration and anger in your eyes. Unfortunately for every one like you there is a penny pincher but you can hold your head up knowing you do the right thing going the extra mile with your channel and videos.
I am yacht captain (smaller) and also repair them. There were two yachts I didn't like. One of Carlos Slim's simply because it was terribly designed, 2/3rds of the internal space was machinery with guest bedrooms stuck here and there. A desktop computer (rusted) ran the jacuzzi...the worst one was a 3 year old 120 foot Italian yacht, really sleek aluminum painted a rich colour. However, the dock lines were chewing through 3" of bondo (fairing) and finally into metal. That's a lot of fairing. We are onboard to fix some electrical issues and install some radios....the existing ones being in a clump. Its hot inside, the wiring is all done in white wires (navies seem to like this too). each wire has id codes stamped on them, except of course the ink faded...so no colour or code. Installing the antennas showed 2.5 inches of fairing on the starboard cowling, none on the port. So that is not good construction. That was about 12 years ago. Bonus one is a guy buying a 90 foot alluminum yacht, ripping out the salon, and putting in a 1970's disco. With 2x4s, real mirrors, plywood, and a bit of marble, less than a ton. So the waterline change of 14" caused a few problems. I was hired by the suitably drugged captain on how to get the always 1/2 full master suite bathtub usable..that was silly. The engines he did not think were a worry.
I understand keeping the brokerage and owner confidential, but honestly i think the shipyard should be named and shamed so they dont get to do this to others. unless they can prove they advised to build to code and the owner instructed not to.
Most shipyards don't produce that many boats of this size per year, if you know the shipyard and the delivery year you could probably narrow down the boat and the management company pretty quickly.
@@miguelvpires Nobody reputable would even do this build. And everybody knows who is who in the yacht manufacturing industry. They gotta know that their reputation is getting trashed by the fly-by-night assholes. To build a pile of shit yacht that doesn't conform to any class or standards. Again, nobody reputable would risk this pile getting out and likely killing its passengers and/or crew and most likely sinking at sea. Soo yeah.....
Mentioning a ship yard by name is a very, very good way to get sued, regardless of the truthfulness of the information. Win, lose or draw a lawsuit is something that even the most successful youtube channel would have a hard time supporting. At 209K subs it would break this channel. Tristan is not stupid.
@@johnnylightning1491 Even when you win it takes years (large companies are very good at dragging out lawsuits) and a lot of money heartache and time, I agree with you.
🦘🇦🇺 OMG!! Thank you Mr. Mortlock for such sage advice. I’m currently at a pre contract point for a 45M vessel. Our requirement is for it to be operational by Dec 25 which is probably unrealistic for a new build. Plan B is to purchase existing 45M & refit to our yet to be concluded specs. Thank you indeed for the heads up on multiple layers of process. Your wisdom is greatly appreciated. 🙏
Thank you for telling us all this! I'm hoping to build within the next five years or so, and even though I'm not looking for anything that big, I'll remember.
Not ever going to own any kind of vessel all I can say is who would get on an airplane knowing it didn’t meet at least minimum standards. Thanks Tristen & nice to see you back on your channel.🙏🇨🇦🙃
Not I HOWEVER picture your business, family or friends chartering for an event and always thinking " we're safe, I mean this is a multi million dollar vessel"! I also may never own such a dream, but yeah life puts us in scenarios
Interesting indeed. As a potential owner of much smaller / second hand / sailing boats, 10 to 20 meters I find I'm only interested in considering Production Yachts. I would generally never bother looking at a Home built or Custom Yacht. Yes there may be exceptions but its unlikely I would go there. I thought I was being snobbish or pedantic but listening to a real professional view has reinforced my standpoint. Thank you.
As a retired Professional Pilot - there is not much difference in the overall safety and Captain's requirements whether it's in the air or on the sea. You are spot on with your assessments and comments. Great presentation and I support everything you said regarding this issue.
Quite right. And that is a point many buyers are not aware of. Even for smaller vessels. You can clearly see that you are angry about the way things are going. With good reason. I myself am an avid sailor and also a surveyor for pleasure craft up to max 20 metres. Surely, there too, I regularly encounter the problem of buyers blindly believing what their heart tells them. And then lose all reason. Hire someone to make a business-like assessment of this investment. Good advice from an old Belgian.
I really like this story. And although I agree with every part. I'm interested in the role of the owner. What were his intentions and how was the building commissioned. Maybe he was aware of all those facts and still proceeded with the build.
Great advice, even though I am not a yacht owner, but appreciate engineering, design, and safety in anything we build. Your professionalism is why I watch your channel.
Very interesting. Thanks. I am a 100 Ton Master. So typically run vessels up to about 25 meters. Ferrys, local tour yachts sailing charter yachts etc. what you say makes so much sense. Sorry this owner was lead down this dark path.
I watch this channel to prepare for future as a super yacht owner. My current vessel is a dry docked owner operated 4.5M all aluminium but I would like to upgrade to a fully crewed 500 gross tonne explorer yacht.
Man youre amazing, i love the ways you think and of course as a captain you have values and standards. When i will make my yacht in some time, i will come to you 🙂For sure! Great content man!
This video, and its message, should be widely distributed to inform people on shore what they are up against. Most seafarers know this, the rest doesn't. Thank you so much for publishing this, from a 76 yo "captain", on the max 24 m yacht that is 😊
Great advice . As both a retired lawyer and Captain this is a sad but very common story . Question from me to prospective client : why didn’t you seek legal advice before you started this business? Oh a friend of mine said don’t spend money on lawyers it’s easy , do what I did …. I left the practice of law and wound up running an insurance company because I could not tolerate stupid clients lol . At least in the insurance company I formed I could say no very easily. The program I ran was unique in the industry so you bought from me and adopted my standards or you went bare . Haven’t we seen an awful lot of super yacht sinkings and fires etc lately ? Yes I think so . One thing you need to add to your list : check out the financial condition of the ship yard before engaging . I shipyard in desperate financial situation. Will do anything to get an order. I am certain that the yard you were talking about said to the perspective client don’t worry we’ll build it to large yacht standards. You don’t need to hire all that other cost of class certification, etc. we can save you that money.
Thx for the candid commentary, it is extraordinary that a yard would accept an order from someone clearly not knowledgeable at that financial level to properly and safely order a new build. I am captain of a much smaller boat, a 50 ft Nordhavn, but I am critically aware of my responsibilities. I have an ICC certification for yachts up to 24 metres, but have the time and other qualifications for a yacht master ocean.
Sounds insane that this sort of thing actually happens! I'm surprised there isn't a way for the shipyard to update or change to boat to meet specs? Even a costly rebuild seems a better option than continuing as-is. Is this the owner's decision?
Whether you´re running a bank or a ship, or founding a bank or building a ship one must always follow best practice standards. In the case of Banks we have the Basel Accords and in the case of the large yachts it´s the classification societies´standards which need to be observed. Many thanks for this professional heads-up, Tristan!
Thank goodness I will never have this issue in my life. I would be calling out the shipyard for doing such a dogs job on a seriously expensive boat. Subscribed
Hey Tristan, you have the right attribute and knowledge for set up a yacht captain academy where all these and more generally important aspects are being discussed and review with a certain frequency per year. It is ofcourse something every captain should already know, but we have to make sure we are all united and linked for a good reason. I can help with gather non english speaker colleagues/boat owners here in Sardinia and make sure there is a mass application to the project
Yep, got to work hard to beat the Mars Orbiter, or Costa Concordia, or Titanic, or the space shuttles Columbia and Challenger, fu@k, come to think of it, we are surrounded by idiotic failures....🤯
Very interesting, who would have guessed at the level (and monetary amount) someone would actually do that. I had an "experience" in getting a classification for a commercial ship later and it was a nightmare. Thanks for sharing.
Now we have the new Owners Representatives Course happening, can you see this continuing to happen considering the mind set of most owner types? My greatest concern is the lack of knowledge and understanding around the laws and codes regarding Crew. Frequently Crew being placed in very very difficult situation. It is about time that we gained a joined up approach in this very very resource rich industry.
@@charlesjay8818 I think he's well above average and I don't think he'd compromise his integrity for money. Opinions may vary of course but that's mine!
First off, get a potential Captain first ( like Tristan ), because he is your representative to the potential yard/builder first and foremost..... 2nd ONLY then do you consider a management house/company, talk to your captain, does he have any recommendations. Make sure he has the required certifications for the potential build/purchase... Let him handle the the day to day stuff, because that's what you're paying him for.... Any questions, see your captain...
Would think that if the ship yard normally built to class that any ship they built would be fairly close to those standards even without being certified. Sounds like they didn't even try.
I guess it’s the age old thing, if you can cut costs and increase profits you will, regardless of any safety implications. I feel sorry for the owner as I imagine they were given very bad advice by the ship yard.
this is insane - trading safety for saving money (when building to neither standard). Should the shipyard not fear to loose any reputation ? This is just reckless
Yachts under 24m that are sold in Europe must be build with a CE Certification (category A,B,C,D). Do you have any thoughts on the standards of this certification in comparison to flag/society classification?
Those are not certification in the least! The lowest of the lowest, and completely bottom scraping! But any flag state has requirements and certifications better than those, so you are basically covered on the minimum! At least for pleasure crafts up to 24m long! Past that, or for commercial crafts, is better to up the standards… and classification societies come into play.
@@stormtrooper9404 I wouldn't say that EU CE certification would be bottom scarping generally. Those CE requirements based by European harmonized standards and those are based by EN-ISO standards mainly for the minimum requirements. Manufacturer or importer need to proof to meet those requirements. In my understanding flag state can add added requirements in EU are just what kind of gears you need with you at minimum. This because you need approve yacht or boat to any EU country market if it have this CE certification and meet those harmonized standards minimum requirements. So the question is about the requirements of the ISO standards and whether they are sufficient or if is there enough surveillance for manufacturers and markets. When speaking non-commercial private pleasure craft under 24m. Generally I think standard can be always higher.
U are perfectly right! Cant take responsebility for something which isnt certifyed. I see just one solution for the client, he make his captain licenz and drive the yacht by himself.
Tristan, a suggestion for you, maybe on another dedicated channel but I am terribly interested in the background role of a superyacht captain's role, just as a voyeur and dreamer. Not so much the role of day to day running which you cover well, the crewing, costs etc but in the business of selecting ports, berths to operate from, weather considerations, ports to travel to and the vessel maintenance services that are used in downtime or when a pressing fault needs correcting. Maybe the less glamourous stuff but critically important too. My dream is a live aboard superyacht, utilised as a 4 star floating boutique hotel to explore the world, to use as a base to hedonistically travel the world, forays inland and adventures, returning to the boat and off again to the next place. This must be practical! I am sure people do this now and it is a growing market. Instead of a 60 ft mono-hull yacht or a 50 ft cat, why not in a 50m to 80m superyacht? Your thoughts please.
As a retired ships master with c.o.c. master all ships for 35 years merchant navy , i don't understand this is still happening today in the yacht world and regulations. Building. Stability , Safety , Environment very important.
Hi Tristan: I am skipping 18M yacht at the moment; everything you say applies to every yacht that leavers the dock. A few comments that you missed, if I may? Where was the architect? And when a rescue is necessary, how about the rescue team? I just watched a vid of a German couple who departed Bermuda for Halifax on their 22M cutter, with two hair-legs for crew. No shake down, no chalk talks, no common scene, and no seamanship! They sailed by the lee for a day or two. When the weather picked up, they put a preventer on the boom. It was not enough. The jib cracked both owners. The man suffered two compound leg fractures, his mate suffered internal injuries. By the time the hair-legs got within range of USA & Canadian Coast Guard, both owners were in direr straights; the passed on the chopper. The hair-legs abandoned ship; the $2M cutter was salvaged by a salvage company. Did I mention MV Yogi? It is serious business out there. CaptainGord
Interesting story and comment on this. My thought is the following - the owner should go to the 'class', find precisely what modifications would be necessary to obtain that rating, go directly to another shipyard (with the advice of surveyor, designer, the class, insurance company and management company) and get those modifications made before sailing. In this way, the value of the vessel is salvaged (albeit at the cost of those modifications).
As a former USCG Aux. member, (retired) I have been surprised by videos on RUclips concerning yachts of this size. A 24 meter (78 feet) vessel is a lot of boat yet many are being sold with the "feature" that it can be owner operated and no crew is required. It seems very odd to me that one doesn't need any training to operate a vessel this size or that a family would do so with no professional crew. Besides the obvious issues of how much trouble a skipper can get into with something this large but the amount of daily maintenance it requires that should be done. My only conclusion is that some family spends most of its time on the water doing hard work or that this maintenance isn't being done. As someone who has boarded and inspected a lot of small vessels I can tell you, they are rarely properly maintained and kept current with Coast Guard standards. Often we would find malfunctioning safety system, improper wiring of electronic equipment, bilges contaminated with motor oil etc. and these are primarily vessels under 15 meters (50 feet). So not only is the vessel you are talking about not built to safety standards but it can be operated by someone who isn't trained? What could go wrong?
LOL. The US has no yacht standards to speak of. Paying passenger carrying boats, and fishing boats have stringent standards in the US, but yachts? Hahahahahahaha! The Auxiliary just makes sure you have life jackets and fire extinguishers. They're a joke.
I have nothing to do with Yachts, I just love the idea and luxury of yachting. Also the technical knowledge and skill involved is just captivating to me. Thanks for the glimpses into that world. That said, it is just beyond my imagination that ANYONE smart enough to amass enough money or buying power to spend at least $/Euro10,000,000, would over several years execute a contract to build a yacht without a complete knowledge of building codes. How does that even happen? But thanks for the incredible if not insane story. I would bet that in 10 years that yacht will be the subject of a RUclips video on abandon yachts beached somewhere.
You mentioned a few times that you did not understand how a motor yacht could be built w/o class? The answer is: boat yard profit. As a former PEO commander for the US Navy, experience says new builds should always be managed by owners representatives from design to sea trials. It does not matter if your boat is 100 ft or 100,000 tons, boat yards should follow orders, not give them.
You certainly A CLASS ACT Captain Tristen. As someone who obtained my Bachelor of Science in Marine Engineering & Technology I truly appreciate an honest broker such as you!!! May the Lord continue to Bless You & Keep You along with Your Precious Bride…
A really quick and simple one is stuff like what extent of fire alarm and supression is needed, for a commercial vessel basically EVERY space has to have a smoke or heat detector (or both, several for a large space) as well as fire alarm call points, as well as usually some sort of sprinkler or fire main system, not to mention hi fogs and similar for the galley and engine room ... for non commerical these are pretty much optional
This video has a lot of ifs and buts, and while Class is very important, their is that loop hole in between 24 till about thirty meters were nearly all production boat builders (not only) get the LLL at 23.9 and below, and are building to CE standard for example. Yes you can get an MCA or Charter Class at a cost, as an optional extra, and some cases A1 build. These size of builds (24>30) do enter eight figures territory by the way. Also I was surprised that a Class would specifically say no to Class a vessel. This might be for two reasons IMO; one this boat is so much off the regulation that they will not do it (but you kinda state, that they said No before even inspecting the vessel), which is very strange, or the ownership does not want to fork out the money. I think this is more a case of probably the second, as a class survey would always go onboard make a report and then leave it to you if you want to do it. As for class inspection during builds even this is an Option on a fiberglass production or semi-production vessel. In fact the A1 Cross of Malta symbol would indicate a vessel or yacht as inspected during build. Getting Class certification to an A1 is different. Again many production or semi-custom builders have A1 certified design and will leave it up to the buyer to class certify an A1 build. This bit is a bit different, you can have an A1 certified design and still not build to A1 standard. Classing becomes pretty standard in most steel or alloy build yachts, but less in fiberglass production builds, especially in the size of lll 23.9 or below.
An 8 figure sum is not "cheap " (Anywhere between $10,000,000 - $99,999,999) This is not about the sum of money, it is about the industry, bad or no advice, and potential charlatans taking advantage of naive foolhardy owners, and or a belligerent know it all!
You bring up a lot fo things that I knew about including safety, but I didn't think for one second that a shipyard would or could build a ship without standards. This is crazy!! They aren't thinking of the owner at ALL!!! And certainly don't seem to care about the passengers or crew on that ship. I would sue and change shipyards and find a way to make it safe and certifiable. And classed.
Still another great video skipper. I can't understand there was so many good builders out there. Shipyards how they can go to somebody. That would do this to them. I would never even think of it. The first thing I would do is hire somebody to stand by my side. probably you great video ciao for now.
I'm an independent tradesperson working in the residential housing market. This video is also relevant to buying or building property. When you're making the biggest investment of your life you either better know what you're about or hire someone trustworthy who does. And keep in mind highly visible high volume manufacturers aren't necessarily trustworthy. And that's the main reason I'm an independent..
How to curiosity what records does the buyer of the vessel now finding out that it doesn't have class and these other things what kind of recourse does he have to go after the builders for building it this way
Probably IS why some super yachts are suddenly reported “ sinking “ quickly , whilst miles away from shore , in-very deep water whilst being repositioned to a distant port for these owners ! ( Insurance claims ) of un-resalable boats ..
That is lot of B.S. ! First, no one will insure them in the first place! Second.. every loss at sea is highly publicized.. and under scrutiny! I cannot even remember of a superyacht lost at sea 🙄
As below, I would love to know the differences between a commercial built yacht, and one not built to that standard. Cost difference, material differences, safety differences, etc. Great vlog, and great advice. I'm curious what the gentleman saved by not having the yacht built to a commercial standard? It must be substantial, or why do it.👍😎✌🗽
UHM yes, to all of that. There is significant costs involved in not going with a certified commercial build, like your life, to start with.... The classification society will depend on the specific hull and if it is chater class or not... If you are building a P.O.S. that's just for your own pleasure, go ham, otherwise you should be talking to your captain.....
@@Rob_Moilanen I'm thinking this dude paid $100,000,000 for what should be at least a $150,000,000 yacht. Even that kind of savings isn't worth it to me, just cut back on size or something else, but the structure of the yacht should never be compromised on. You can update other things later if need be. It shouldn't be allowed in the first place on yachts of this size as he'll bring family, and friends who are unaware of the possible safety issues until it's too late to get off!
@@TOM-C. uhm, you are quibbling over 100 million dollars and a 150 million dollars, you probably shouldn't be building a yacht, right off the bat, just sayin.....(hint, you can't afford something in the particular 100-150 million range)
I was in total disbelief of this video. I have followed you for a long time and always found your videos informative. this one was No exception, As a former boat owner small boat by your standards a C&C 38 foot sailboat I understand a little bit about safety. Every year we looked at the new regulations to see if there was something that we should add to our ageing boat to make it safer. We added many things that were not required by code to improve the safety factor of our vessel. Cannot believe that somebody would not build a yacht to the highest possible safety standards possible. To me this sounds like a shipyard, trying to build a boat on a budget. If we take all the safety features out, we can build it cheaper. I feel sorry for the owner, although he is obviously a richer man than I am.
es curiosa la historia!!!, la aviacion lo aprendio todo de la marina y ahora a la marina le toca aprender de la aviacion.... estoy totalmente de acuerdo con tu analisis.
I once bought a 27 foot Yacht, 18months old.....Had it surveyed prior to paying for it, everyone thought I was mad, saying "How could it be faulty, coming almost straight from the the manufacturer?" - Personally, I would have a brand new yacht surveyed before money changed hands. Yacht builders can be slap happy to the point of causing death. It failed on several points. 1. Wrong fuel pipe from tank to engine, wrong clips too. 2. The Oven/Grill/Hob was dangerous (made in the UK) the fittings allowed it to jump out of the fitting in rough conditions. 3. The roller reefing was fitted with inferior undersized components, That could have resulted in Mast loss........ So the Surveyor earned his money, and this was just a relatively inexpensive boat. But it backs up what this video is teaching...Leave it to the pro's!!
So heartbreaking to hear. As someone who has built and owned vessels 🚢 this is a major concern for everyone. I’m surprised there isn’t a lawsuit to recover some of the money from this project. Let the builder take it back and un$&@! their shortcuts and greed!
Thank God there's people like you passing this knowledge on. Just because these buyers are wealthy doesn't mean they have any real expertise in yachts. 🇦🇺 😊
Thank you. 40 year mariner, 26 year master. Would never (EVER) sail on an unclassed vessel. Please emphasise the more rigorous classification societies.
LOL
Absolutely agree on all points. 20 years in the game and the fact that vessels are not being built to class or LY3 is not just unbelievable but unforgivable really
I'm just a private captain of a 35ft boat... but with 40 years experience... let me say, thank you! I'm faszinated from your skills and attitude 👌
Mariner, licensed Captain - and stunned. My mouth hanging open. Thank you for making this episode, viewing it should be a compulsory part of CPD.
Thankfully Tristran you speak with honesty and commitment. Not knowing the whole story, I hope the owner takes appropriate action, ideally before final payment. Hat's off to you for declining the offer.
There probably isn't a lot of action they can take. They signed the contract. As long as the builder followed the contract, there is nothing to be done. The courts aren't going to have any sympathy for someone that signs an 8-figure contract without getting independent advice.
I remember watching a video with Alexi from Bering yachts saying that he turned down a couple of potential clients because they wanted to cut costs by trying to build outside of class. I'd rather be told no to building a yacht that could launch a submarine rather than to have the whole ship sink due to my own stupidity. But that's just me. 🤷♂
Whereas Perini Navi seems perfectly willing to build dangerous superyachts to make a buck.
It is sad for the owner that he got 'screwed' by the yard, but it also tells a lot about the yard they did this in the first place. Any company, proud of their product, would have advised the owner to think about all these things and then, after they realize the owner is not familiar with it, would have advised him to get someone who knows what is going on.
Last year in Rhodes a Turkish built yacht (appr 25 mtr) was lying next to us and that thing was beyond unstable. Just a bit of wind and it would heel over..............in the marina. After a couple of days the captain approached us and asked us if we knew anyone who was looking for a captain. He did not want to be on board anymore. Told us that he had house hold plumbing in the boat, meaning the good old grey pipes and connectors. The whole boat was wired with house hold electrical cables and the list went on and on. Sure it was a flashy boat, with lots of all colored lights and a great sound system, but that was about it.
Am not sure, but I have the idea that a lot of wannabe's are jumping into the yacht market, designing a flashy boat and hope to sell one (or more), but having no clue of what they are building or what is required. In Turkey the 'flipping a boat' business is now booming. They buy an old super yacht, preferably one that had an accident, refurbish it in the cheapest possible way and sell it for a lot of money (between 5 and 10 million euro).
Same is going on within the charter business. Lots of shady companies getting into this booming business. They buy themselves a flashy yacht, interior looks fine, but the technical state of the boat is horrible. The clients fall for the interior and then get confronted with failing equipment, cutting the charter short. Seen it all over Greece and Turkey last year.
I.o.w. there are a lot of cowboys out there and that means a lot of work for you to guide new owners through this mess.
Great video and sad story. Let us know what the owner did with the yacht.
Meh, that’s why if you’re ever purchasing anything like a yacht or a jet, you have an experienced broker guide and oversee the process.
Come on guys he should sue em 😤 hard
@@brandonadams7837Oh c’mon! 🙄
The broker for their hefty fee of 10% will sell you anything! They are basically equivalent of cars salesman!
For that kind of money it’s better to go with the personal and loyal project manager, plus an army of lawyers and independent surveyors and engineers!
All written up in legal contracts and obligations! Money in the escrow account and released as the project go by the book!
We have been in Turkiye for the past 4 years and what you described here is Turkiye in general with anything they build from villas, to caravans to tiny houses. You have to do your homework well if you are going to buy anything in " cut corners" Turkiye.
Their economy is so bad and their import taxes so high they cut corners everywhere.
Well said its nice to see a person who isn't just thinking about himself I have followed Tristan since he first started and I can honestly say I have never heared or seen a more dedicated Captain or with as much integrity, honesty and loyalty and as well liked by all ,if i was buying or building a yacht he would be my first stop,I have no skin in this game but its nice to point out the good guys now and then,
Couldn’t agree more.That is going to be unsellable. Had a similar experience of an owner building a boat with no representation, (although this boat was built to Class and LY3) however, left unsupervised the yard cut every single corner they could. The boat was a disaster.
Owners: Appoint or involve your Captain from DAY ONE!!!
Would like to see maybe 6 videos exploring each of the areas you discussed here. What are the commercial minimum requirements? What different regulations apply to yachts >500Gt, before and after the build. What is the cost of employing a broker, captain, surveyor, etc. before the first steel is welded? What exactly would they do to earn their keep? Use an imaginary 50meter, or you choose - to illustrate the concepts and costs. Take the position of someone who could be encouraged to build to private or commercial standard, < or > 500 Gt. Outline the pros and cons at each step, which should include some vague estimate of the cost of going down each path.
If you go to the website of the MCA ( Marine and Coastguard agency) you will find a lot of this stuff there. Technical requirements are fairly extensive. As to trigger points 24m in length ( it’s not Overall length you need to check definition), 500GT and up to or over 12 passengers are all key points where the rules change and the chequebook has to come out. For classification society stuff check out Lloyds in the U.K. as one on the top classification societies, or if in the US ABS is maybe more relevant. There are restrictions on chartering non US built boats in the USA.
Sounds like a lot of time, effort and work.
@@TerryKeever Which is exactly why you would hire someone who knows the job.
The First expense is the Captain. The best value for the money.
Great advice cap...been an aircraft operator for 30 years we are not immune to the situations similar to yours....always seek expert opinions
I am astonished by this scenario. What could be more precious and carefully maintained than a yard's reputation, which will (and should) take a irreparable hit when the yachting world digests this report? I understand your commitment to confidentiality, but I wish we could know what builder took part in such a grievous pursuit. As an owner, I would want all the help I could get, and the boat built to MAXIMUM standards/classification. Unbelievable, but thanks to you for bringing it to light.
The LYC and CS do not have "maximum standards". Their minimal standards are large, don't think they aren't. So one example is bulwark height (the "walls" on the sea-side of the deck). For example, if a cod says for boat section the 40 inches (1 meter). What is the maximum height? Six feet? Sixty feet? Sixty miles? You can certainly exceed 40 inches and many vessels do, but that doesn't mean there is an easily-stated _maximum._
None of which helps an owner with limited vessel construction/classification experience, hence the wisdom of hiring somebody who is. This owner didn't, and he paid dearly for it. 'Maximum' doesn't have to be a published set of parameters, so excuse my non-literal use of the term.@@darthkek1953
Think of the “minimal standards” that Tristan refers to as similar to the local building code for a house. The building code for a house is effectively the minimum standard for a dwelling unit that can be built in its respective locality. Those minimum standards /building code don’t mean that the vessel / house is on the verge of being unsafe, but rather, those building standards are robust enough to convey a reliable level of safety for the structure being built. Now, the builder of a yacht or a house could always build something that exceeds those minimum standards, but there really are no maximum standards, as, for example, there is no limit to how thick the walls of a house can be.
@@dorothygale1104
I have been following you for a few years now. I have never, ever, seen you so angry; your anger was seeping through, and quite rightly so. THank you so much for this. You know who I'll be coming to when I win the euro Lottery😂
Tristan, SV Seeker, built in his back yard, 70' steel hull. 8 digit price tag. Any full custom build, to a standard or not will hit the 8 digit price tag range. Designers like Bruce Roberts who sell plans with a 1 off license to build don't really help with build quality. Most designers will ask which yard you want them to work with so they can oversee the build and make sure it meets spec.
I agree, having a surveyor hired to inspect and watch the build on top of the independent designer is a good idea. I also think all yachts should be built to handle brash ice, that clustered ice usually found near glaciers or the edge of an ice cap. Stronger hull is a safer hull.
8 digit price tag? LOL!
@@timdunn2257 cheapest 8 digit price tag is $10,000,000
If I ever win the lottery and decide to buy a super yacht I'll give you a call. Your the kind of captain I would want in charge of it. 🙂 Thanks for the video!
Absolutely agree 100% having served in the capacity of a management level on board VLCC's VLGC, Products carriers and on privet level owning yachts through out, i absolutely agree on the need of Class and surveys to ensure minimal standards applied and defiantly to involve them for a New Build projects.
thanks for this informative video
really appreciate the effort captain.
Keep them coming please.
WOW That is so dangerous! My dad was a plumber and he went to a home that was built without building codes. That is the same thing you are speaking of with that yacht. Not building it to commercial or class is like building a home without building codes. So, My dad went to this house. The owner bought it a week before and now there was hot water flowing out of the ceiling of the home. He got there, could not find a main shut off valve to the home so climbed in the attic to see what the issue was and all water lines, hot and cold were plumbed with a cheap garden hose. Of course, garden hose is not rated to hold hot water. In the end, they have to remove all walls, ceilings and floors in the home and replace all the plumbing. They had to clean all the mold off the wall studs from the leaking hoses. They had to have the water turned off at the main and install a main shut off for the home. So, the homeowner basically paid for a house and property but had to completely rebuild the home due to the home not built to a code. So his million-dollar home cost him 2.5 million dollars. And when it was all done, it was still only valued at 1 million dollars.
So always have a survey on your boat and a home inspection on your home and ALWAYS have your yacht built to commercial and to class and your home built with codes.
Your story reminds me of an incident in the sixties.While riding my motorcycle to work,as an apprentice plumber,I passed a row of stone fronted terrace houses,one of the middle dwellings had the roof & frontage blown out,also inner connecting walls too.I later heard that this house had gas ovens & fires on all levels including attic & cellar.All these appliances were connected to garden hose.This resulted in not only deaths in the middle terrace,but deaths on either side.
@@glennwatson1755 WOW! yeah building to a code is a very good idea to avoid such thing. Can you even imagine how bad a yacht build could be with no code? laughs
Or by someone with common sense.
I really enjoy watching your videos and your enthusiasm and care for the industry is clearly shown in this video. I can see the frustration and anger in your eyes. Unfortunately for every one like you there is a penny pincher but you can hold your head up knowing you do the right thing going the extra mile with your channel and videos.
This is extremely good advice and while I'm not in this industry,I would think all yachts are built to class and above minimum standards.
I am yacht captain (smaller) and also repair them. There were two yachts I didn't like. One of Carlos Slim's simply because it was terribly designed, 2/3rds of the internal space was machinery with guest bedrooms stuck here and there. A desktop computer (rusted) ran the jacuzzi...the worst one was a 3 year old 120 foot Italian yacht, really sleek aluminum painted a rich colour. However, the dock lines were chewing through 3" of bondo (fairing) and finally into metal. That's a lot of fairing. We are onboard to fix some electrical issues and install some radios....the existing ones being in a clump. Its hot inside, the wiring is all done in white wires (navies seem to like this too). each wire has id codes stamped on them, except of course the ink faded...so no colour or code. Installing the antennas showed 2.5 inches of fairing on the starboard cowling, none on the port. So that is not good construction. That was about 12 years ago. Bonus one is a guy buying a 90 foot alluminum yacht, ripping out the salon, and putting in a 1970's disco. With 2x4s, real mirrors, plywood, and a bit of marble, less than a ton. So the waterline change of 14" caused a few problems. I was hired by the suitably drugged captain on how to get the always 1/2 full master suite bathtub usable..that was silly. The engines he did not think were a worry.
Captain, is the class of yacht called the nightmare class?
I know there are slums in Bombay built better than those yachts!
I understand keeping the brokerage and owner confidential, but honestly i think the shipyard should be named and shamed so they dont get to do this to others. unless they can prove they advised to build to code and the owner instructed not to.
Obviously Tristan doesn't do that, otherwise he'd have "outed" the yard here. And since he didn't, it's pretty obvious he's not going to either.
Most shipyards don't produce that many boats of this size per year, if you know the shipyard and the delivery year you could probably narrow down the boat and the management company pretty quickly.
@@miguelvpires Nobody reputable would even do this build. And everybody knows who is who in the yacht manufacturing industry. They gotta know that their reputation is getting trashed by the fly-by-night assholes. To build a pile of shit yacht that doesn't conform to any class or standards. Again, nobody reputable would risk this pile getting out and likely killing its passengers and/or crew and most likely sinking at sea. Soo yeah.....
Mentioning a ship yard by name is a very, very good way to get sued, regardless of the truthfulness of the information. Win, lose or draw a lawsuit is something that even the most successful youtube channel would have a hard time supporting. At 209K subs it would break this channel. Tristan is not stupid.
@@johnnylightning1491 Even when you win it takes years (large companies are very good at dragging out lawsuits) and a lot of money heartache and time, I agree with you.
🦘🇦🇺 OMG!! Thank you Mr. Mortlock for such sage advice. I’m currently at a pre contract point for a 45M vessel. Our requirement is for it to be operational by Dec 25 which is probably unrealistic for a new build. Plan B is to purchase existing 45M & refit to our yet to be concluded specs. Thank you indeed for the heads up on multiple layers of process. Your wisdom is greatly appreciated. 🙏
Sounds nice. Tell me more
Thank you for telling us all this! I'm hoping to build within the next five years or so, and even though I'm not looking for anything that big, I'll remember.
Very, very sage advice. Not heeding this advice will cost you a great deal of wealth.
Or your life or someone you love. Safety should never be worked around.
Not ever going to own any kind of vessel all I can say is who would get on an airplane knowing it didn’t meet at least minimum standards. Thanks Tristen & nice to see you back on your channel.🙏🇨🇦🙃
Not I HOWEVER picture your business, family or friends chartering for an event and always thinking " we're safe, I mean this is a multi million dollar vessel"! I also may never own such a dream, but yeah life puts us in scenarios
Interesting indeed. As a potential owner of much smaller / second hand / sailing boats, 10 to 20 meters I find I'm only interested in considering Production Yachts. I would generally never bother looking at a Home built or Custom Yacht. Yes there may be exceptions but its unlikely I would go there. I thought I was being snobbish or pedantic but listening to a real professional view has reinforced my standpoint. Thank you.
As a retired Professional Pilot - there is not much difference in the overall safety and Captain's requirements whether it's in the air or on the sea. You are spot on with your assessments and comments. Great presentation and I support everything you said regarding this issue.
Love content like this, Thank you for showing its not sunshine and calm seas. Such a learning experience.
Minimum standards! not minimal! great vlog, love it
We have this situation in high levels of racing, just because you can afford it doesn’t mean you can build it and drive it…..it NEVER works out.
Quite right. And that is a point many buyers are not aware of. Even for smaller vessels. You can clearly see that you are angry about the way things are going. With good reason. I myself am an avid sailor and also a surveyor for pleasure craft up to max 20 metres. Surely, there too, I regularly encounter the problem of buyers blindly believing what their heart tells them. And then lose all reason. Hire someone to make a business-like assessment of this investment. Good advice from an old Belgian.
You are a man of integrity. Well done.
I really like this story. And although I agree with every part. I'm interested in the role of the owner. What were his intentions and how was the building commissioned. Maybe he was aware of all those facts and still proceeded with the build.
I advise smaller yachts owners ie sailboats. Much of what you advise for the super yachts apply to all.
Wow! Thanks for that. I may never have a boat built or buy a yacht but that is great information. Sad for the people losing their shirts this way.
Great advice, even though I am not a yacht owner, but appreciate engineering, design, and safety in anything we build. Your professionalism is why I watch your channel.
RUclipss algorithm thinks very highly of me. Up next on my feed…”mistakes not to make when dating a supermodel”.
Have you seen my video on the mistakes I made buying an island in the Caribbean?
Have a superyacht minimum of 40 meters built to large yacht standards and with Lloyds registration 😂
Very interesting. Thanks. I am a 100 Ton Master. So typically run vessels up to about 25 meters. Ferrys, local tour yachts sailing charter yachts etc. what you say makes so much sense. Sorry this owner was lead down this dark path.
I watch this channel to prepare for future as a super yacht owner. My current vessel is a dry docked owner operated 4.5M all aluminium but I would like to upgrade to a fully crewed 500 gross tonne explorer yacht.
I am not sure a trailer on your driveway counts as a dry dock!
Yep, that counts..... lol @@miguelvpires
😂😂😂😂@@miguelvpires
Man youre amazing, i love the ways you think and of course as a captain you have values and standards. When i will make my yacht in some time, i will come to you 🙂For sure! Great content man!
This video, and its message, should be widely distributed to inform people on shore what they are up against. Most seafarers know this, the rest doesn't. Thank you so much for publishing this, from a 76 yo "captain", on the max 24 m yacht that is 😊
Great advice . As both a retired lawyer and Captain this is a sad but very common story . Question from me to prospective client : why didn’t you seek legal advice before you started this business? Oh a friend of mine said don’t spend money on lawyers it’s easy , do what I did ….
I left the practice of law and wound up running an insurance company because I could not tolerate stupid clients lol . At least in the insurance company I formed I could say no very easily. The program I ran was unique in the industry so you bought from me and adopted my standards or you went bare .
Haven’t we seen an awful lot of super yacht sinkings and fires etc lately ? Yes I think so .
One thing you need to add to your list : check out the financial condition of the ship yard before engaging . I shipyard in desperate financial situation. Will do anything to get an order. I am certain that the yard you were talking about said to the perspective client don’t worry we’ll build it to large yacht standards. You don’t need to hire all that other cost of class certification, etc. we can save you that money.
Well said Robert. Financial condition of the yard is extremely important to investigate before signing a build contract.
Thx for the candid commentary, it is extraordinary that a yard would accept an order from someone clearly not knowledgeable at that financial level to properly and safely order a new build. I am captain of a much smaller boat, a 50 ft Nordhavn, but I am critically aware of my responsibilities. I have an ICC certification for yachts up to 24 metres, but have the time and other qualifications for a yacht master ocean.
Sounds insane that this sort of thing actually happens! I'm surprised there isn't a way for the shipyard to update or change to boat to meet specs? Even a costly rebuild seems a better option than continuing as-is. Is this the owner's decision?
Whether you´re running a bank or a ship, or founding a bank or building a ship one must always follow best practice standards. In the case of Banks we have the Basel Accords and in the case of the large yachts it´s the classification societies´standards which need to be observed. Many thanks for this professional heads-up, Tristan!
Contemplating building a yacht and thought just last week what are the first steps. The YT algorithm served up your vid. SO GLAD I saw this.
Thank goodness I will never have this issue in my life. I would be calling out the shipyard for doing such a dogs job on a seriously expensive boat. Subscribed
Hey Tristan, you have the right attribute and knowledge for set up a yacht captain academy where all these and more generally important aspects are being discussed and review with a certain frequency per year. It is ofcourse something every captain should already know, but we have to make sure we are all united and linked for a good reason.
I can help with gather non english speaker colleagues/boat owners here in Sardinia and make sure there is a mass application to the project
Just know that if you’ve ever made a big mistake. There’s someone out there who’s made one bigger. 😂
Yep, got to work hard to beat the Mars Orbiter, or Costa Concordia, or Titanic, or the space shuttles Columbia and Challenger, fu@k, come to think of it, we are surrounded by idiotic failures....🤯
Great advice keep up the good work have been a license captain for over 20 years on long range sports fishing boats
Very interesting, who would have guessed at the level (and monetary amount) someone would actually do that. I had an "experience" in getting a classification for a commercial ship later and it was a nightmare. Thanks for sharing.
Now we have the new Owners Representatives Course happening, can you see this continuing to happen considering the mind set of most owner types? My greatest concern is the lack of knowledge and understanding around the laws and codes regarding Crew. Frequently Crew being placed in very very difficult situation. It is about time that we gained a joined up approach in this very very resource rich industry.
I would never buy a super yacht without consulting The SuperYacht Captain first. My ideal crew would be The SuperYacht Captain and Esysman.
and the crewchef
Tristan is nothing special, he's just an average Joe captain with a You-Tube channel. He's only worked on Private yachts, and not on any big ones.
@@charlesjay8818 I think he's well above average and I don't think he'd compromise his integrity for money. Opinions may vary of course but that's mine!
However is extremely confident in his own right with his background.
Esysman Top Shelf!!
Thoughts on finding a captain first and bringing them on before engaging the management company or the yard?
First off, get a potential Captain first ( like Tristan ), because he is your representative to the potential yard/builder first and foremost.....
2nd ONLY then do you consider a management house/company, talk to your captain, does he have any recommendations.
Make sure he has the required certifications for the potential build/purchase...
Let him handle the the day to day stuff, because that's what you're paying him for....
Any questions, see your captain...
Would think that if the ship yard normally built to class that any ship they built would be fairly close to those standards even without being certified.
Sounds like they didn't even try.
I guess it’s the age old thing, if you can cut costs and increase profits you will, regardless of any safety implications. I feel sorry for the owner as I imagine they were given very bad advice by the ship yard.
this is insane - trading safety for saving money (when building to neither standard). Should the shipyard not fear to loose any reputation ? This is just reckless
Yachts under 24m that are sold in Europe must be build with a CE Certification (category A,B,C,D). Do you have any thoughts on the standards of this certification in comparison to flag/society classification?
Those are not certification in the least! The lowest of the lowest, and completely bottom scraping!
But any flag state has requirements and certifications better than those, so you are basically covered on the minimum! At least for pleasure crafts up to 24m long!
Past that, or for commercial crafts, is better to up the standards… and classification societies come into play.
@@stormtrooper9404 I wouldn't say that EU CE certification would be bottom scarping generally. Those CE requirements based by European harmonized standards and those are based by EN-ISO standards mainly for the minimum requirements. Manufacturer or importer need to proof to meet those requirements. In my understanding flag state can add added requirements in EU are just what kind of gears you need with you at minimum. This because you need approve yacht or boat to any EU country market if it have this CE certification and meet those harmonized standards minimum requirements. So the question is about the requirements of the ISO standards and whether they are sufficient or if is there enough surveillance for manufacturers and markets. When speaking non-commercial private pleasure craft under 24m. Generally I think standard can be always higher.
Wow, thanks for the inside look. If I am ever in this position I will take this advice.
U are perfectly right! Cant take responsebility for something which isnt certifyed. I see just one solution for the client, he make his captain licenz and drive the yacht by himself.
Tristan, a suggestion for you, maybe on another dedicated channel but I am terribly interested in the background role of a superyacht captain's role, just as a voyeur and dreamer.
Not so much the role of day to day running which you cover well, the crewing, costs etc but in the business of selecting ports, berths to operate from, weather considerations, ports to travel to and the vessel maintenance services that are used in downtime or when a pressing fault needs correcting. Maybe the less glamourous stuff but critically important too.
My dream is a live aboard superyacht, utilised as a 4 star floating boutique hotel to explore the world, to use as a base to hedonistically travel the world, forays inland and adventures, returning to the boat and off again to the next place. This must be practical!
I am sure people do this now and it is a growing market. Instead of a 60 ft mono-hull yacht or a 50 ft cat, why not in a 50m to 80m superyacht?
Your thoughts please.
As a retired ships master with c.o.c. master all ships for 35 years merchant navy , i don't understand this is still happening today in the yacht world and regulations. Building. Stability , Safety , Environment very important.
Hi Tristan:
I am skipping 18M yacht at the moment; everything you say applies to every yacht that leavers the dock.
A few comments that you missed, if I may? Where was the architect?
And when a rescue is necessary, how about the rescue team?
I just watched a vid of a German couple who departed Bermuda for Halifax on their 22M cutter, with two hair-legs for crew. No shake down, no chalk talks, no common scene, and no seamanship!
They sailed by the lee for a day or two. When the weather picked up, they put a preventer on the boom. It was not enough. The jib cracked both owners. The man suffered two compound leg fractures, his mate suffered internal injuries.
By the time the hair-legs got within range of USA & Canadian Coast Guard, both owners were in direr straights; the passed on the chopper.
The hair-legs abandoned ship; the $2M cutter was salvaged by a salvage company.
Did I mention MV Yogi? It is serious business out there.
CaptainGord
Great video! It's unreal that this still happens.
Interesting story and comment on this. My thought is the following - the owner should go to the 'class', find precisely what modifications would be necessary to obtain that rating, go directly to another shipyard (with the advice of surveyor, designer, the class, insurance company and management company) and get those modifications made before sailing. In this way, the value of the vessel is salvaged (albeit at the cost of those modifications).
As a former USCG Aux. member, (retired) I have been surprised by videos on RUclips concerning yachts of this size. A 24 meter (78 feet) vessel is a lot of boat yet many are being sold with the "feature" that it can be owner operated and no crew is required. It seems very odd to me that one doesn't need any training to operate a vessel this size or that a family would do so with no professional crew. Besides the obvious issues of how much trouble a skipper can get into with something this large but the amount of daily maintenance it requires that should be done. My only conclusion is that some family spends most of its time on the water doing hard work or that this maintenance isn't being done. As someone who has boarded and inspected a lot of small vessels I can tell you, they are rarely properly maintained and kept current with Coast Guard standards. Often we would find malfunctioning safety system, improper wiring of electronic equipment, bilges contaminated with motor oil etc. and these are primarily vessels under 15 meters (50 feet). So not only is the vessel you are talking about not built to safety standards but it can be operated by someone who isn't trained? What could go wrong?
LOL. The US has no yacht standards to speak of. Paying passenger carrying boats, and fishing boats have stringent standards in the US, but yachts? Hahahahahahaha! The Auxiliary just makes sure you have life jackets and fire extinguishers. They're a joke.
Would any of us get in an elevator that did not meet minimum safety standards? Of course not. Enough said.
I have nothing to do with Yachts, I just love the idea and luxury of yachting. Also the technical knowledge and skill involved is just captivating to me. Thanks for the glimpses into that world. That said, it is just beyond my imagination that ANYONE smart enough to amass enough money or buying power to spend at least $/Euro10,000,000, would over several years execute a contract to build a yacht without a complete knowledge of building codes. How does that even happen? But thanks for the incredible if not insane story. I would bet that in 10 years that yacht will be the subject of a RUclips video on abandon yachts beached somewhere.
That is wild that someone spending that much money still gets it wrong. Shysters at every level.
You mentioned a few times that you did not understand how a motor yacht could be built w/o class? The answer is: boat yard profit. As a former PEO commander for the US Navy, experience says new builds should always be managed by owners representatives from design to sea trials. It does not matter if your boat is 100 ft or 100,000 tons, boat yards should follow orders, not give them.
You certainly A CLASS ACT Captain Tristen. As someone who obtained my Bachelor of Science in Marine Engineering & Technology I truly appreciate an honest broker such as you!!! May the Lord continue to Bless You & Keep You along with Your Precious Bride…
It's probably down to the owner insisting to build the biggest boat as cheaply as possible. Looks like its come full circle on his decision.
Maybe yacht is an art piece. No need to sail. Exhibition in Museum
Would like to know what the deviations from commercial on a build such as this. If you can give an example would be most interesting.
A really quick and simple one is stuff like what extent of fire alarm and supression is needed, for a commercial vessel basically EVERY space has to have a smoke or heat detector (or both, several for a large space) as well as fire alarm call points, as well as usually some sort of sprinkler or fire main system, not to mention hi fogs and similar for the galley and engine room ... for non commerical these are pretty much optional
Can those issues be fixed? Couldn’t a Classification Society survey it and make a list of things to be changed/fixed and go from there?
I agree Tristan I've been a Master Mariner for 40 years & have not ever accepted a job without classification.
This video has a lot of ifs and buts, and while Class is very important, their is that loop hole in between 24 till about thirty meters were nearly all production boat builders (not only) get the LLL at 23.9 and below, and are building to CE standard for example. Yes you can get an MCA or Charter Class at a cost, as an optional extra, and some cases A1 build. These size of builds (24>30) do enter eight figures territory by the way. Also I was surprised that a Class would specifically say no to Class a vessel. This might be for two reasons IMO; one this boat is so much off the regulation that they will not do it (but you kinda state, that they said No before even inspecting the vessel), which is very strange, or the ownership does not want to fork out the money. I think this is more a case of probably the second, as a class survey would always go onboard make a report and then leave it to you if you want to do it. As for class inspection during builds even this is an Option on a fiberglass production or semi-production vessel. In fact the A1 Cross of Malta symbol would indicate a vessel or yacht as inspected during build. Getting Class certification to an A1 is different. Again many production or semi-custom builders have A1 certified design and will leave it up to the buyer to class certify an A1 build. This bit is a bit different, you can have an A1 certified design and still not build to A1 standard. Classing becomes pretty standard in most steel or alloy build yachts, but less in fiberglass production builds, especially in the size of lll 23.9 or below.
If you're not related to yachts, this has some comedic value. Like "That can't be real..."
Very well said and explained.
Thank you for sharing this information. It saddens me to think a ship yard would do this as any issue will end up in their lap too.
What a nightmare; cheap does not work on yacht construction, as we all (should) know. Thank you, again!
An 8 figure sum is not "cheap "
(Anywhere between $10,000,000 - $99,999,999)
This is not about the sum of money, it is about the industry, bad or no advice, and potential charlatans taking advantage of naive foolhardy owners, and or a belligerent know it all!
Capt. You are one of the best Capt. Tristan.
You bring up a lot fo things that I knew about including safety, but I didn't think for one second that a shipyard would or could build a ship without standards. This is crazy!! They aren't thinking of the owner at ALL!!! And certainly don't seem to care about the passengers or crew on that ship. I would sue and change shipyards and find a way to make it safe and certifiable. And classed.
Great advice. The owner was not well advised by the builder.
Still another great video skipper. I can't understand there was so many good builders out there. Shipyards how they can go to somebody. That would do this to them. I would never even think of it. The first thing I would do is hire somebody to stand by my side. probably you great video ciao for now.
Great info. Thanks much, not ready to start my build yet, but I will not only remember your advice I'm saving this video for future reference.
I'm an independent tradesperson working in the residential housing market. This video is also relevant to buying or building property.
When you're making the biggest investment of your life you either better know what you're about or hire someone trustworthy who does. And keep in mind highly visible high volume manufacturers aren't necessarily trustworthy. And that's the main reason I'm an independent..
How to curiosity what records does the buyer of the vessel now finding out that it doesn't have class and these other things what kind of recourse does he have to go after the builders for building it this way
Probably IS why some super yachts are suddenly reported
“ sinking “ quickly ,
whilst miles away from shore , in-very deep water whilst being repositioned to a distant port for these owners ! ( Insurance claims ) of un-resalable boats ..
That is lot of B.S. !
First, no one will insure them in the first place!
Second.. every loss at sea is highly publicized.. and under scrutiny!
I cannot even remember of a superyacht lost at sea 🙄
As below, I would love to know the differences between a commercial built yacht, and one not built to that standard. Cost difference, material differences, safety differences, etc. Great vlog, and great advice. I'm curious what the gentleman saved by not having the yacht built to a commercial standard? It must be substantial, or why do it.👍😎✌🗽
UHM yes, to all of that.
There is significant costs involved in not going with a certified commercial build, like your life, to start with....
The classification society will depend on the specific hull and if it is chater class or not...
If you are building a P.O.S. that's just for your own pleasure, go ham, otherwise you should be talking to your captain.....
@@Rob_Moilanen I'm thinking this dude paid $100,000,000 for what should be at least a $150,000,000 yacht. Even that kind of savings isn't worth it to me, just cut back on size or something else, but the structure of the yacht should never be compromised on. You can update other things later if need be. It shouldn't be allowed in the first place on yachts of this size as he'll bring family, and friends who are unaware of the possible safety issues until it's too late to get off!
@@TOM-C. uhm, you are quibbling over 100 million dollars and a 150 million dollars, you probably shouldn't be building a yacht, right off the bat, just sayin.....(hint, you can't afford something in the particular 100-150 million range)
@@Rob_Moilanen You're a troll Rob, making trouble where there is none, toodeloo! ✌
@@TOM-C. Nope, but thanks for playing the stupid game anyways cause you lose.
I was in total disbelief of this video. I have followed you for a long time and always found your videos informative. this one was
No exception, As a former boat owner small boat by your standards a C&C 38 foot sailboat I understand a little bit about safety. Every year we looked at the new regulations to see if there was something that we should add to our ageing boat to make it safer. We added many things that were not required by code to improve the safety factor of our vessel. Cannot believe that somebody would not build a yacht to the highest possible safety standards possible. To me this sounds like a shipyard, trying to build a boat on a budget. If we take all the safety features out, we can build it cheaper. I feel sorry for the owner, although he is obviously a richer man than I am.
I agree with you the yacht should be built to commercial standards as an owner.
es curiosa la historia!!!, la aviacion lo aprendio todo de la marina y ahora a la marina le toca aprender de la aviacion.... estoy totalmente de acuerdo con tu analisis.
I once bought a 27 foot Yacht, 18months old.....Had it surveyed prior to paying for it, everyone thought I was mad, saying "How could it be faulty, coming almost straight from the the manufacturer?" - Personally, I would have a brand new yacht surveyed before money changed hands. Yacht builders can be slap happy to the point of causing death. It failed on several points. 1. Wrong fuel pipe from tank to engine, wrong clips too. 2. The Oven/Grill/Hob was dangerous (made in the UK) the fittings allowed it to jump out of the fitting in rough conditions. 3. The roller reefing was fitted with inferior undersized components, That could have resulted in Mast loss........ So the Surveyor earned his money, and this was just a relatively inexpensive boat. But it backs up what this video is teaching...Leave it to the pro's!!
A fool and his money....... Thanks for this astonishing (to me) revelation. Cheers.
Can the build be modified after market to meet class standards? Or is it more a structural issue ?
Great and informative. This apparently was someone who was too focused on the acquisition price.
Very possible, but the the cost of class is negligible in comparison to the build cost.
So heartbreaking to hear. As someone who has built and owned vessels 🚢 this is a major concern for everyone. I’m surprised there isn’t a lawsuit to recover some of the money from this project. Let the builder take it back and un$&@! their shortcuts and greed!
Very good video as normal 👍feel so sorry for the new owner 😢