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Thank you for your service in protecting the innocent and keeping the peace. It deeply saddens me that so many Christians today do not understand the pure logic and foundational, balanced Biblical truth that was presented in this video. This pacifistec way of thinking is a plague upon the church and the advancement of the gospel. It needs to be rejected.
Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men. If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. Therefore “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; If he is thirsty, give him a drink; For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.” Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. Romans 12:17-21 NKJV If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness, he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself. I Timothy 6:3-5 NKJV “But I say to you who hear: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, and pray for those who spitefully use you. To him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer the other also. And from him who takes away your cloak, do not withhold your tunic either. Give to everyone who asks of you. And from him who takes away your goods do not ask them back. And just as you want men to do to you, you also do to them likewise. “But if you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. And if you lend to those from whom you hope to receive back, what credit is that to you? For even sinners lend to sinners to receive as much back. But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is kind to the unthankful and evil. Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful. Luke 6:27-36 NKJV Paul even rebuked the idea of sueing brothers and sisters, how can we be convince in our on mind we can kill potential brothers and sisters in the Lord through war? Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unrighteous, and not before the saints? Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life? If then you have judgments concerning things pertaining to this life, do you appoint those who are least esteemed by the church to judge? I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you, not even one, who will be able to judge between his brethren? But brother goes to law against brother, and that before unbelievers! Now therefore, it is already an utter failure for you that you go to law against one another. Why do you not rather accept wrong? Why do you not rather let yourselves be cheated? No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat, and you do these things to your brethren! Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. I Corinthians 6:1-10 NKJV Please seek the Lord on this issue with all humility and lowliness of heart, ask God to reveal the glory of the new covenant compared to the old, are you still under the law to justify war against our enemies?.do you still have a heart or stone of have you been given the new heart? May the Lord open your eyes to see the glory of Jesus. For this is commendable, if because of conscience toward God one endures grief, suffering wrongfully. For what credit is it if, when you are beaten for your faults, you take it patiently? But when you do good and suffer, if you take it patiently, this is commendable before God. For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps: “Who committed no sin, Nor was deceit found in His mouth”; who, when He was reviled, did not revile in return; when He suffered, He did not threaten, but committed Himself to Him who judges righteously; who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness- by whose stripes you were healed. For you were like sheep going astray, but have now returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls. I Peter 2:19-25 NKJV
I appreciate your love and commitment to God. As Christians we are to live our life as a sacrifice, always putting others before ourselves. Just War theory is a man made concept not found in scripture. Vengeance is clearly left up to God not followers of Jesus. We obey the government as long as it does not contradict Jesus’ principles. As Christians we are not to defend ourselves physically, yet we are to sacrifice our life if the situation demands for others, even our enemies just as Jesus did himself and remember we are followers of Jesus and live by His principles which never justify repaying evil with evil. We are to love our enemies. We are to offer our life not take a life. There are countless examples of how we are to live our life as a sacrifice snd servant ready to lay down our life and consider others more important than ourselves just as Jesus did. Many more points can be made; however this format is not convenient for that. I encourage all to diligently study this matter as it does not convince one overnight. It had taken me 15+ years to come to this conclusion very reluctantly. I wish this were not a principle of Jesus; yet my dedication to Jesus convicts me to follow it. Thank you for your time and may you study to come to know the true principles of Jesus. With love and humility.
With love, faith comes by hearing God's word (Rom. @). And let us all come into the unity of faith (Eph. @). 1. Is the American government worldly or part of God's kingdom? -- Jesus says, "They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. Sanctify them by Your truth" (John 17:16-17). -- In the Hebrew language, the word "NATIONS" is identical with the word heathen -- Psalm 96:5; Psalm 2:1. 2. What are the weapons that Christians should use on their enemies? -- "For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God" (2 Corinthians 10:4). 3. With love, should we give our enemies food and water, or should we kill them? -- "Let love be without hypocrisy [play-acting]. ... Repay NO ONE evil for evil. ... If your enemy is hungry, feed him; If he is thirsty, give him a drink ..." (Rom. 12:9-21). 4. I now have been born from above -- a new birth brings new citizenship. Where is our new citizenship? -- "For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ" (Phil. @). -- Are there Christians in this nation? Yes, but ... Biblically, we belong to a kingdom, not a nation. -- Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world: if My kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight ... BUT now My kingdom is not from here? 5. What kind of mind are we to have? -- The mind of Christ (Eph. 2:5). 6. Do the Old Testament Wars come into play, NOW? -- Jesus says, "You have said, an eye for an eye ... BUT I tell you NOT to resist an evil person" (Matt. @-48). Because ... --"The wrath of man does not work the righteousness of God" (James 1:20). The work of the Gospel is to make peace between men and God--not war. Wherever a heart surrenders to God the spirit of militarism and nationalism must go (June 21, 1898). The person who believes that the voice of the people is the voice of God may want to reconsider: "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb ... they loved not their lives unto death" (Rev. 12:11). 7. Does God regard it as less sinful to kill a thousand men than to kill one? -- "Though they join forces, the wicked shall not be unpunished; but the posterity of the righteous will be delivered" (Proverbs 11:21). blessings, John
Take every opportunity to preach the Gospel.. Saving babies. You guys and your families are front pioneers..i personally, pray & learn so much from way you speak with people on the streets. Respectful, always. Every video I've watched. Keep going..
Apologia's done a couple episodes now on "Just War" - a super interesting topic I'm always waiting to hear about. This was by far the best episode they've done on it - Dr. Boot and Jeff got into specifics and kept everything rooted in both Scripture and reality. Two thumbs up!
While I currently agree with the views espoused here, I do find it frustrating when theu simply say, "Jesus didn't overturn the law" as if they're all eating kosher and keeping the sabbath. Sure, those changes weren't institutes until after His death and resurrection, but it still bears mentioning.
Hmm... this whole thing reminded me of this passage, concerning Paul's unique mission from Jesus: Acts 21:1-14 "And when we had parted from them and set sail, we came by a straight course to Cos, and the next day to Rhodes, and from there to Patara. 2 And having found a ship crossing to Phoenicia, we went aboard and set sail. 3 When we had come in sight of Cyprus, leaving it on the left we sailed to Syria and landed at Tyre, for there the ship was to unload its cargo. 4 And having sought out the disciples, we stayed there for seven days. And through the Spirit they were telling Paul not to go on to Jerusalem. 5 When our days there were ended, we departed and went on our journey, and they all, with wives and children, accompanied us until we were outside the city. And kneeling down on the beach, we prayed 6 and said farewell to one another. Then we went on board the ship, and they returned home. 7 When we had finished the voyage from Tyre, we arrived at Ptolemais, and we greeted the brothers and stayed with them for one day. 8 On the next day we departed and came to Caesarea, and we entered the house of Philip the evangelist, who was one of the seven, and stayed with him. 9 He had four unmarried daughters, who prophesied. 10 While we were staying for many days, a prophet named Agabus came down from Judea. 11 And coming to us, he took Paul’s belt and bound his own feet and hands and said, “Thus says the Holy Spirit, ‘This is how the Jews at Jerusalem will bind the man who owns this belt and deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.’” 12 When we heard this, we and the people there urged him not to go up to Jerusalem. 13 Then Paul answered, “What are you doing, weeping and breaking my heart? For I am ready not only to be imprisoned but even to die in Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Jesus.” 14 And since he would not be persuaded, we ceased and said, “Let the will of the Lord be done.”
Like Jesus knew His time was not yet, so did Paul because of the message Jesus told him where he was to go. Remember it was Jesus who told him his mission, like Father God told Jesus His mission. I think this is important to note. Those who are Christian and saying no to war might be from God as to their own unique mission from God, much like we see in Acts in the above quote. We are in a war that we can't see... Not against flesh and blood, but against powers and principalities in the heavenly places. As Christians, we ought to always be seeking the Lord in everything as we are not all playing the same instrument in a symphony.
53:25-57:30 Should be played at the start. Clearest statement of the 'Just War' theory being discussed. Arbitrary criteria, with no scriptural basis, severely weakens this "Just War" argument: 1) "Legitimate declaration of war by legitimate authority" - so a nation state? which didn't exist in the 4th century? An Empire? Which Empire? only Christian Empires? What about Christian militias? Is a tribe legitimate? Does this declaration need to be passed through both houses of a legislature? What if democrats support it? 2) "Just Cause" - someone, anyone - define this meaningfully. The (resource, nationalistic, patriotic) causes and agendas of earthly kingdoms are never fully aligned with the Kingdom of God, full stop. And when, ever, has a 'defensive action' not devolved into an all-out war? Wouldn't combating Mao or Stalin's slaughter, Rwandan genocide, genocide in East Timor, or the Khmer Rouge qualify as 'just'? Which 'legitimate authority' took up the cause to end these slaughters? 3) Intention is "restoration of God's order". When has God's order and peace ever been 'restored' thanks to an act of war? Civil war (ask the Native Americans)? World War 1? (Ask the Germans)? World War 2? (Ask the Japanese, Brits, Filipinos, Vietnamese)? Vietnam War? Iraq? 4) "Proportionality" - ok - fair enough, balance. When has this ever happened in the course of human history - when an act of war was, 1-for-1, responded to 'proportionally' and it resulted in a clean, sown-up victory for what is just and right and true? WW2? First off, most of Hitler's Germans were Christians and were supported by the Catholic Church. Second, as a thought experiment, place yourself in the shoes of a German citizen in the 1930s and think through the 4 criteria above: 1) Of course they had a right to incite war as they were under threat of bolshevism and other anti-German elements from without and within. "Gott mit uns" 2) Of course it was just because Germans were the best, most advanced, most moral, and a Germanized Europe (especially the elimination of Bolshevism) would be a more right, just, advanced, and true world - more in line with God's will. " Gott mit uns" 3) Enough said in #2 - Germany was a victim and needed to be restored as the right, righteous country of the best and most advanced people 4) Vengeance for WWI, combatting threatening elements from without and within. Wars are fought for selfish, nationlistic reasons and justified as moral actions both during and after the fact. This is the case, without exception. My argument is not that nations should not go to war - nations, as kingdoms of this world have to deal and manage their own affairs for their own interests. Very clear and open for debate. The question is about Christians and what our stance should be, as well as what should be preached from the pulpit. "Peacemaking" means ending the neverending and escalating chain of violence, not justifying state actions by stamping them with our unique Christian values of love, peace, justice, mercy, etc.
I’m currently serving in the USAF and looking at the survey of scripture I agree with your guys view, but what troubles me is that it seems that all the early church wrote against service in the military
I don't see why a declaration of war would be necessary. For example, if the CIA knew of a terrorist organization who was planning something, and secretly assassinated them, I don't see the problem. Also, I'm not sure why 'policing the world' couldn't fall under the category of defense of others. For example, when we sent men into Somolia to aprehend drug lords who were oppressing the people, I also don't see the problem.
Hello Mr. Jeff Durbin or Apologia Studio. I have a question for you, could you please give me your view. Do you believe that the biblical God created the knowledge of good and evil?
If perfect justice and the role of judge are part of God's nature, does that not imply that the standard of what is good or evil is derived from that aspect of His nature?
@@conncul1815 Hello...... I don't want to sound sarcastic, but was that a question to my question, or is that a question to someone else other than myself?
Since it's so simple, allow me the same; WRONG. Remember when the Soldier asked the Apostle what he should do, now that he's Saved? And the Apostle said, stop Soldiering and going to War.. Oh, Wait! No, he said do Not Take (steal/strong arm Citizens) more than Commanded.
@@Chirhopher If a Roman Soldier wanted to leave the army, he would be executed... The Apostle wasn't going to tell him to tell his superiors that he was resigning b/c the Apostle knew that meant death for the Soldier... In the Roman Empire, soldiers did more than just soldiering by the way
So, do you think Luke 22:36 gives Christians a right to go to war? "Then said he (Jesus) unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one".
You're in the Military you do not get to choose who, what, where and when and why you fight and the CIC tells you were going into say Iraq. If you're a Christian then you'll never serve your 20 years and retire if you cannot morally fight an offensive war and thus it shuts the Military down as a career opportunity for a Christian. Or am I hearing this wrong I appreciate this podcast it crossed a lot of t's and dotted alot of I's for me.
So, when are you going to run for Congress or Senate? You could speak circles around these politicians. You are cool with ending immigration too, right? Since the 1965 immigration act we moved from a preference of Western folk to opening it up to the whole world. We now realize that not only is there a cultural factor, but there is a voting factor too. We all know minorities (and i love em!) vote overwhelmingly democrat. How are we suppose to win the fight against abortion when more pro lifers die every year than are being born, and the people replacing them vote Democrat. You can apply this same problem to the fight for our first and second amendments too. No one wants to answer this dilemma, Jeremy from Crosspolitic blocked me over the same question. I pray one of my heroes(Pastor Jeff) doesn't do the same.
The only reason why they vote that way is perceived hostility from the conservative movement in the United states . You would get more pro life people if their wasn't hostility towards them.
@@woobiefuntime wrong. Western culture is European culture. It doesn't mean Western hemisphere, it means Western European. America, Canada, and Australia were made as outposts of Europe. My initial point stands unrefuted. European folk will become a minority in America by 2040. When the founding stock disappear so will the civilization they created. All the good arguments and rhetoric mean nothing when you look at Pew Research and see the racial breakdown when it comes to supporting issues.
Given the standard that God is Just AND the Justifier how does He forgive your sin? In fact how can He be both Holy/Just and pronounce you guilty and yet be the One who forgives your failure to obey His righteous Law? Romans 3:21-26 especially v 26 There are many tensions in scripture. Departure from any biblical truth is a mere nuance to the right or left. That is all that it takes for truth to become false teaching. A slight or minor departure! Genesis 3:1-7 This idea should quench any thought that mans' will is not imprisoned under the curse of sin and exiled from a right relationship with God since the fall of Adam. So that if God does not initiate drawing you to Himself you would NEVER come. Adam is the father of disobedience and we (once) were sons of disobedience. Eph. 2:1-2 Col. 3:6
Moreover, John 7:53-8:11 is NOT in the best MSS. Your bible should have a foot note to that aaffect. So those verses are not a good example to use because of variant readings.
He wouldn't seek another term. Harris would be running in 2024 . I have no problem with that because trump is worse. The people he has running the government is making things worse. Like allowing toxic chemicals into water around coal plants. That's depraved and negates the his pro life position
I cannot imagine Jesus saying some of the things Jeff or his guests say here. "We have lots of guns" or "I wish we (Canadians) had a second amendment." And other things of that nature. I can relate because there was a time when I would have said similar things. But I think there is something about this whole perspective that is way out of sync with Jesus and his apostles, both their teaching and the example they left to us. One idea to consider... You could interpret the scriptures in a way that supports Just War or in a way that supports biblical nonviolence. I think a good way to get at the truth is to look at the historic teaching of the church. And the fact is that every single pre-Nicene Christian writer / apologist... EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM... who deals with this issue all say the same thing: Christians cannot use violence ever, not in self-defense and not in the military. It isn't until Ambrose and mostly Augustine that Just War comes along, after the church made friends with Rome. In 300 AD, joining the Roman military would get you excommunicated from the church. By the early 400s, you could not join the Romans army unless you were a Christian. That is a drastic shift... Just War is not an apostolic teaching, and that is a fact. You cannot trace it historically to the apostles. This is a serious issue because this is a "sermon on the mount issue". It is part of the will of Jesus Father that he teaches there. That narrow path that only a few find. And only a few have held to it over the centuries after Augustine. If we want to say that the entire apostolic / pre-Nicene church was somehow mistaken, okay, but I think that's a crazy idea. I think this is an enormous blind spot in today's church that is going to cost many of us the kingdom of God. Nonviolence might sound nuts to us today since we learn Just War from the time we are young and grow up on a steady diet of movies like Braveheart, Gladiator, Saving Private Ryan, etc. If we are going to get in line with Jesus on this issue, we're going to have to go through a difficult paradigm shift God bless you guys..
@Keksi did he say that we need to make war against the infidels? No. That we need to kill all unbelievers? No. God didn't give them a "right" to defend themselves. And we aren't told not to defend ourselves. And when it comes to tyranny, yes we are not to bend the knee to that governing body. The government is Gods institution to deal out His justice. But when that government is unrighteous and unjust, and believes that they are the law, then we are told not to submit. Submit to God, not to man. Ever heard of Lex Rex? Law is King. It inspired the revelutionary war, and the English civil war when Charles I believed himself to be king above Gods law.
Jesus told Peter AFTER he cut off the ear of the high priest servant to PUT AWAY your sword. If his (Jesus) kingdom were of this world, then would his servants fight to deliver him from the Jews. If there ever was a time for a Just War, then wouldn't the arrest and inevitable crucifixion of Jesus Christ be the perfect time to engage in violence? The execution of Jesus Christ IS the most unjust event in ALL of history! As tempting as it is to pick up a "sword", I find it hard under the new covenant to justify going to war. Shouldn't Christians in the early church have been fighting Rome's wars to defend the empire against barbarians? No, we know from history that they willingly died in arenas and using other tortuous and crude methods for the faith. Think about that.
53:25-57:30 Should be played at the start. Clearest statement of the 'Just War' theory being discussed. Arbitrary criteria, with no scriptural basis, severely weakens this "Just War" argument: 1) "Legitimate declaration of war by legitimate authority" - so a nation state? which didn't exist in the 4th century? An Empire? Which Empire? only Christian Empires? What about Christian militias? Is a tribe legitimate? Does this declaration need to be passed through both houses of a legislature? What if democrats support it? 2) "Just Cause" - someone, anyone - define this meaningfully. The (resource, nationalistic, patriotic) causes and agendas of earthly kingdoms are never fully aligned with the Kingdom of God, full stop. And when, ever, has a 'defensive action' not devolved into an all-out war? Wouldn't combating Mao or Stalin's slaughter, Rwandan genocide, genocide in East Timor, or the Khmer Rouge qualify as 'just'? Which 'legitimate authority' took up the cause to end these slaughters? 3) Intention is "restoration of God's order". When has God's order and peace ever been 'restored' thanks to an act of war? Civil war (ask the Native Americans)? World War 1? (Ask the Germans)? World War 2? (Ask the Japanese, Brits, Filipinos, Vietnamese)? Vietnam War? Iraq? 4) "Proportionality" - ok - fair enough, balance. When has this ever happened in the course of human history - when an act of war was, 1-for-1, responded to 'proportionally' and it resulted in a clean, sown-up victory for what is just and right and true? WW2? First off, most of Hitler's Germans were Christians and were supported by the Catholic Church. Second, as a thought experiment, place yourself in the shoes of a German citizen in the 1930s and think through the 4 criteria above: 1) Of course they had a right to incite war as they were under threat of bolshevism and other anti-German elements from without and within. "Gott mit uns" 2) Of course it was just because Germans were the best, most advanced, most moral, and a Germanized Europe (especially the elimination of Bolshevism) would be a more right, just, advanced, and true world - more in line with God's will. " Gott mit uns" 3) Enough said in #2 - Germany was a victim and needed to be restored as the right, righteous country of the best and most advanced people 4) Vengeance for WWI, combatting threatening elements from without and within. Wars are fought for selfish, nationlistic reasons and justified as moral actions both during and after the fact. This is the case, without exception. My argument is not that nations should not go to war - nations, as kingdoms of this world have to deal and manage their own affairs for their own interests. Very clear and open for debate. The question is about Christians and what our stance should be, as well as what should be preached from the pulpit. "Peacemaking" means ending the neverending and escalating chain of violence, not justifying state actions by stamping them with our unique Christian values of love, peace, justice, mercy, etc.
@@remonel2354 so you are saying Jesus was not born to die? That the Way of Salvation could have come by some other means? What bible do you read? The one where man is god and God is dead? That man is greater than his Creator and knows more about implementing His Covenants and fulfilling His promises than does the LORD? That God is unable to keep His word and fulfill the prophecies He declared? Get the point yet? Why did Peter even have a sword? I mean, wouldn't Jesus have rebuked him at some point BEFORE the garden and His arrest if it was wrong? The WHOLE of the bible, the 66 inspired books of both Covenants, relay the WHOLE plan of redemption. To favor one over the other or to NOT KNOW OR READ THE OLD COVENANT is one reason many folks fail to comprehend the whole plan of redemption. Hosea 4:1-7 1Listen to the word of the LORD, you sons of Israel, Because the LORD has a case against the inhabitants of the land, For there is no faithfulness, nor loyalty, Nor knowledge of God in the land. 2There is oath-taking, denial, murder, stealing, and adultery. They employ violence, so that bloodshed follows bloodshed. 3Therefore the land mourns, And everyone who lives in it languishes Along with the animals of the field and the birds of the sky, And even the fish of the sea disappear. 4Yet let no one find fault, and let no one rebuke; For your people are like those who contend with a priest. 5So you will stumble by day, And the prophet also will stumble with you by night; And I will destroy your mother. 6My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Since you have rejected knowledge, I also will reject you from being My priest. Since you have forgotten the Law of your God, I also will forget your children. Ethnicity does not equate to salvation.
Can Christians go to war? Yes! Should Christians go to war? No, not for this country!! It'd be like Christians during the time of Nero, joining his army. Let's give loving our enemy a legit shot first
@@BenjaminWirtz it worked because there was whole units of Christian's before Constantine. I don't know how long they lasted. I heard about it a documentary a few years ago
The Bible 'book' = a compendium of fire side tales and fables, recounted orally , for generations by goat herders and primitive tribes from the stone age, until writing was invented, and then, many different sources, transliterations, and versions were copied and written down.. ''The Bible was created during a time where stories were verbally passed down over hundreds of years. Stories constantly morphed and changed over time, and the Bible is a collection of these. This is why it has the nearly identical flood story from Gilgamesh, and why Jesus has the same characteristics as Dionysus, Osiris, Horus, Mithra, and Krishna. The contradictions and immorality in the stories are not evidence that God is flawed or evil, but rather that humans invented him, just like the thousands of other gods that we used to, but no longer believe in.'' ..and to answer the questions of the many fears and mysteries of our universe, like 'thunder' and earthquakes, since there was no science yet. That was the old Testament... The new Testes is also hearsay since these letters, 'gospels' and stories were written by the loyal faithful, the camp followers, not by objective historians at that particular time, or by any contemporary writers, and these tales were written many years after the supposed events of this mythical Jesus. There is essentially very little evidence of a Jesus in real documented history. A couple of spurious Roman reports, and all the rest anecdotal. ...but more importantly ...a jesus' existence is not an issue! A jesus is irrelevant without a god ! Then, many of these stories, but not all, as many were not chosen, [ There are more than just four Gospels but only these four were agreed on ], were compiled for one self-absorbed converted Roman Emperor in his Nicean Council, for his expressed purpose of conquest and control of the people of Europe for his Holy Roman Empire. He recognised that this was the perfect religion/mythology for the future domination of the populaces. Half of the stories were ignored by the Nicean Bishops and none have been proven to be based on fact. This 'Bable' book is backed up by absolutely no facts and no evidence. It is not proof for any god(s) ....(or of any jesus as a god...) The fables are intertwined within historical places and people... eg Egypt and the Pharaohs existed, whereas Moses and the Exodus did not happen...! It is a historical novel .... ie A book of fiction.... Only! The Bible book is proof of a book ... ONLY (certainly not evidence of any gods...) PROVE a god!
OH MY MAN, you get to far...It's not your job to kill him to save her...You sound too attached to life (read scriptures better)...Maybe she's paying for her sins or the sins of her parents...Anyway, war has to be done but only to protect God's Kingdom, not to apply man's justice. Think about the seed.
You the son of Adam, if you don't Stop! worshipping a man chosen by God who eats food like you, then know the 1 God of Abraham is a jealous God and He will destroy you! and your destruction will NOT bother him in the least. If you accept his final prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him and his All-Messengers) It will be best for you if you have any understanding.
Yahweh says: You shall have NO OTHER GODS before Me! There is no prophet by the name of which you say! Yahweh has the power of life and death and no other God is any match for HIM!
You are condemned already unless you repent and believe the message that Jesus, IS THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD! John 3:35-36 35The Father loves the Son and has entrusted all things to His hand. 36The one who believes in the Son has eternal life; but the one who does not [m]obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.”
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0:59 start of music
2:24 start of show
Thank you
anything said in a British accent is true.
Bring british, I agree with this comment 😊
Hahaaaa, and also very smart 😂
😂😂😂
As a Christian police officer appreciated this podcast perspective.
Thank you for your service in protecting the innocent and keeping the peace. It deeply saddens me that so many Christians today do not understand the pure logic and foundational, balanced Biblical truth that was presented in this video. This pacifistec way of thinking is a plague upon the church and the advancement of the gospel. It needs to be rejected.
Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men. If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. Therefore “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; If he is thirsty, give him a drink; For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.” Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
Romans 12:17-21 NKJV
If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness, he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself.
I Timothy 6:3-5 NKJV
“But I say to you who hear: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, and pray for those who spitefully use you. To him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer the other also. And from him who takes away your cloak, do not withhold your tunic either. Give to everyone who asks of you. And from him who takes away your goods do not ask them back. And just as you want men to do to you, you also do to them likewise. “But if you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. And if you lend to those from whom you hope to receive back, what credit is that to you? For even sinners lend to sinners to receive as much back. But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is kind to the unthankful and evil. Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful.
Luke 6:27-36 NKJV
Paul even rebuked the idea of sueing brothers and sisters, how can we be convince in our on mind we can kill potential brothers and sisters in the Lord through war?
Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unrighteous, and not before the saints? Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life? If then you have judgments concerning things pertaining to this life, do you appoint those who are least esteemed by the church to judge? I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you, not even one, who will be able to judge between his brethren? But brother goes to law against brother, and that before unbelievers! Now therefore, it is already an utter failure for you that you go to law against one another. Why do you not rather accept wrong? Why do you not rather let yourselves be cheated? No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat, and you do these things to your brethren! Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
I Corinthians 6:1-10 NKJV
Please seek the Lord on this issue with all humility and lowliness of heart, ask God to reveal the glory of the new covenant compared to the old, are you still under the law to justify war against our enemies?.do you still have a heart or stone of have you been given the new heart?
May the Lord open your eyes to see the glory of Jesus.
For this is commendable, if because of conscience toward God one endures grief, suffering wrongfully. For what credit is it if, when you are beaten for your faults, you take it patiently? But when you do good and suffer, if you take it patiently, this is commendable before God. For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps: “Who committed no sin, Nor was deceit found in His mouth”; who, when He was reviled, did not revile in return; when He suffered, He did not threaten, but committed Himself to Him who judges righteously; who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness- by whose stripes you were healed. For you were like sheep going astray, but have now returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.
I Peter 2:19-25 NKJV
We Muslims love Christians Christians are our brothers
All we Muslims Want is peace
Interview begins about 14:25
Such an important subject right now. Thank you for the clarity!
I appreciate your love and commitment to God. As Christians we are to live our life as a sacrifice, always putting others before ourselves. Just War theory is a man made concept not found in scripture. Vengeance is clearly left up to God not followers of Jesus. We obey the government as long as it does not contradict Jesus’ principles. As Christians we are not to defend ourselves physically, yet we are to sacrifice our life if the situation demands for others, even our enemies just as Jesus did himself and remember we are followers of Jesus and live by His principles which never justify repaying evil with evil. We are to love our enemies. We are to offer our life not take a life. There are countless examples of how we are to live our life as a sacrifice snd servant ready to lay down our life and consider others more important than ourselves just as Jesus did. Many more points can be made; however this format is not convenient for that. I encourage all to diligently study this matter as it does not convince one overnight. It had taken me 15+ years to come to this conclusion very reluctantly. I wish this were not a principle of Jesus; yet my dedication to Jesus convicts me to follow it. Thank you for your time and may you study to come to know the true principles of Jesus. With love and humility.
thanks for all you do, Apologia... Love from Utah
With love, faith comes by hearing God's word (Rom. @). And let us all come into the unity of faith (Eph. @).
1. Is the American government worldly or part of God's kingdom?
-- Jesus says, "They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. Sanctify them by Your truth" (John 17:16-17).
-- In the Hebrew language, the word "NATIONS" is identical with the word heathen -- Psalm 96:5; Psalm 2:1.
2. What are the weapons that Christians should use on their enemies?
-- "For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God" (2 Corinthians 10:4).
3. With love, should we give our enemies food and water, or should we kill them?
-- "Let love be without hypocrisy [play-acting]. ... Repay NO ONE evil for evil. ... If your enemy is hungry, feed him; If he is thirsty, give him a drink ..." (Rom. 12:9-21).
4. I now have been born from above -- a new birth brings new citizenship. Where is our new citizenship?
-- "For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ" (Phil. @).
-- Are there Christians in this nation? Yes, but ... Biblically, we belong to a kingdom, not a nation.
-- Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world: if My kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight ... BUT now My kingdom is not from here?
5. What kind of mind are we to have?
-- The mind of Christ (Eph. 2:5).
6. Do the Old Testament Wars come into play, NOW?
-- Jesus says, "You have said, an eye for an eye ... BUT I tell you NOT to resist an evil person" (Matt. @-48). Because ...
--"The wrath of man does not work the righteousness of God" (James 1:20).
The work of the Gospel is to make peace between men and God--not war. Wherever a heart surrenders to God the spirit of militarism and nationalism must go (June 21, 1898). The person who believes that the voice of the people is the voice of God may want to reconsider:
"And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb ... they loved not their lives unto death" (Rev. 12:11).
7. Does God regard it as less sinful to kill a thousand men than to kill one?
-- "Though they join forces, the wicked shall not be unpunished; but the posterity of the righteous will be delivered" (Proverbs 11:21).
blessings, John
Take every opportunity to preach the Gospel.. Saving babies. You guys and your families are front pioneers..i personally, pray & learn so much from way you speak with people on the streets. Respectful, always. Every video I've watched. Keep going..
Apologia's done a couple episodes now on "Just War" - a super interesting topic I'm always waiting to hear about. This was by far the best episode they've done on it - Dr. Boot and Jeff got into specifics and kept everything rooted in both Scripture and reality. Two thumbs up!
I love this show listen all the time brother's keep them coming Christ is King of kings Lord of lords
Great episode. Very useful. Thanks.
Find myself coming back to this after January 6th..
We Muslims have god On our side
Dr Boot is my brother and sister in law’s pastor. Got a copy of the Mission of God signed for my birthday. :)
thank you Jeff ! It It's challenged my pacifistic Evangelical view .
Thanks for the conversation!!! I appreciate it and it has blessed me
While I currently agree with the views espoused here, I do find it frustrating when theu simply say, "Jesus didn't overturn the law" as if they're all eating kosher and keeping the sabbath. Sure, those changes weren't institutes until after His death and resurrection, but it still bears mentioning.
God is THE God of war, a warrior, the same, never changes, defend weak, God killeth and makes alive, and Jesus said buy a sword,
With the number of baby’s being killed in the womb, should we take action to stop this murder?
This was so good!
Hmm... this whole thing reminded me of this passage, concerning Paul's unique mission from Jesus: Acts 21:1-14
"And when we had parted from them and set sail, we came by a straight course to Cos, and the next day to Rhodes, and from there to Patara. 2 And having found a ship crossing to Phoenicia, we went aboard and set sail. 3 When we had come in sight of Cyprus, leaving it on the left we sailed to Syria and landed at Tyre, for there the ship was to unload its cargo. 4 And having sought out the disciples, we stayed there for seven days. And through the Spirit they were telling Paul not to go on to Jerusalem. 5 When our days there were ended, we departed and went on our journey, and they all, with wives and children, accompanied us until we were outside the city. And kneeling down on the beach, we prayed 6 and said farewell to one another. Then we went on board the ship, and they returned home.
7 When we had finished the voyage from Tyre, we arrived at Ptolemais, and we greeted the brothers and stayed with them for one day. 8 On the next day we departed and came to Caesarea, and we entered the house of Philip the evangelist, who was one of the seven, and stayed with him. 9 He had four unmarried daughters, who prophesied. 10 While we were staying for many days, a prophet named Agabus came down from Judea. 11 And coming to us, he took Paul’s belt and bound his own feet and hands and said, “Thus says the Holy Spirit, ‘This is how the Jews at Jerusalem will bind the man who owns this belt and deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.’” 12 When we heard this, we and the people there urged him not to go up to Jerusalem. 13 Then Paul answered, “What are you doing, weeping and breaking my heart? For I am ready not only to be imprisoned but even to die in Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Jesus.” 14 And since he would not be persuaded, we ceased and said, “Let the will of the Lord be done.”
Like Jesus knew His time was not yet, so did Paul because of the message Jesus told him where he was to go. Remember it was Jesus who told him his mission, like Father God told Jesus His mission.
I think this is important to note. Those who are Christian and saying no to war might be from God as to their own unique mission from God, much like we see in Acts in the above quote.
We are in a war that we can't see... Not against flesh and blood, but against powers and principalities in the heavenly places. As Christians, we ought to always be seeking the Lord in everything as we are not all playing the same instrument in a symphony.
Any chance we can get Dr. Joe Boot to do an audio book version of the book? I have more opportunity to listen to information.
53:25-57:30 Should be played at the start. Clearest statement of the 'Just War' theory being discussed.
Arbitrary criteria, with no scriptural basis, severely weakens this "Just War" argument:
1) "Legitimate declaration of war by legitimate authority" - so a nation state? which didn't exist in the 4th century? An Empire? Which Empire? only Christian Empires? What about Christian militias? Is a tribe legitimate? Does this declaration need to be passed through both houses of a legislature? What if democrats support it?
2) "Just Cause" - someone, anyone - define this meaningfully. The (resource, nationalistic, patriotic) causes and agendas of earthly kingdoms are never fully aligned with the Kingdom of God, full stop. And when, ever, has a 'defensive action' not devolved into an all-out war? Wouldn't combating Mao or Stalin's slaughter, Rwandan genocide, genocide in East Timor, or the Khmer Rouge qualify as 'just'? Which 'legitimate authority' took up the cause to end these slaughters?
3) Intention is "restoration of God's order". When has God's order and peace ever been 'restored' thanks to an act of war? Civil war (ask the Native Americans)? World War 1? (Ask the Germans)? World War 2? (Ask the Japanese, Brits, Filipinos, Vietnamese)? Vietnam War? Iraq?
4) "Proportionality" - ok - fair enough, balance. When has this ever happened in the course of human history - when an act of war was, 1-for-1, responded to 'proportionally' and it resulted in a clean, sown-up victory for what is just and right and true?
WW2? First off, most of Hitler's Germans were Christians and were supported by the Catholic Church. Second, as a thought experiment, place yourself in the shoes of a German citizen in the 1930s and think through the 4 criteria above:
1) Of course they had a right to incite war as they were under threat of bolshevism and other anti-German elements from without and within. "Gott mit uns"
2) Of course it was just because Germans were the best, most advanced, most moral, and a Germanized Europe (especially the elimination of Bolshevism) would be a more right, just, advanced, and true world - more in line with God's will. " Gott mit uns"
3) Enough said in #2 - Germany was a victim and needed to be restored as the right, righteous country of the best and most advanced people
4) Vengeance for WWI, combatting threatening elements from without and within.
Wars are fought for selfish, nationlistic reasons and justified as moral actions both during and after the fact. This is the case, without exception.
My argument is not that nations should not go to war - nations, as kingdoms of this world have to deal and manage their own affairs for their own interests. Very clear and open for debate. The question is about Christians and what our stance should be, as well as what should be preached from the pulpit. "Peacemaking" means ending the neverending and escalating chain of violence, not justifying state actions by stamping them with our unique Christian values of love, peace, justice, mercy, etc.
I fully agree. Many christains do not want to face this reality.
14:23
I’m currently serving in the USAF and looking at the survey of scripture I agree with your guys view, but what troubles me is that it seems that all the early church wrote against service in the military
I don't see why a declaration of war would be necessary. For example, if the CIA knew of a terrorist organization who was planning something, and secretly assassinated them, I don't see the problem. Also, I'm not sure why 'policing the world' couldn't fall under the category of defense of others. For example, when we sent men into Somolia to aprehend drug lords who were oppressing the people, I also don't see the problem.
Sometimes I wonder if us under the new covenant have lived up to it as well as Israel did (repeatedly) with their covenants in the OT.
Can you guys PLEASE do an episode on progressive christianity and refute it please.
So weird, I clicked that the channel was going live and for almost 2 hours it just said Coming Soon... never got to see the show live... =/
Cause war is wrong
This is in the qarun it a hadith
Jehovah's Witnesses are the real Christians and the real true worshippers
No
Hello Mr. Jeff Durbin or Apologia Studio. I have a question for you, could you please give me your view. Do you believe that the biblical God created the knowledge of good and evil?
If perfect justice and the role of judge are part of God's nature, does that not imply that the standard of what is good or evil is derived from that aspect of His nature?
@@conncul1815 Hello...... I don't want to sound sarcastic, but was that a question to my question, or is that a question to someone else other than myself?
@@conncul1815 i am Not Jeff, but We believe the same Things. Yes, YHWH GOD Created Everything in the Garden.
@@conncul1815 Yes, that is Exactly Right. Further, HIS Holy and Good LAW Is Descriptive of HIS Character.
@@the.founder457 Robert, You got my Answer; Correct?
Yeah, that was crazy when dude (Brandon, i think) complained!
Please have Dr. Michael Heiser on to talk about this. It would be a really interesting conversation!
Short answer yes...
Shorter answer no...
Exodus 15:3 is taken out of context
That verse is a song by the Israel people. " The Lord is a man of war "
very simple answer= No ... but if they do, they should not kill and help in other areas
Since it's so simple, allow me the same; WRONG. Remember when the Soldier asked the Apostle what he should do, now that he's Saved?
And the Apostle said, stop Soldiering and going to War.. Oh, Wait! No, he said do Not Take (steal/strong arm Citizens) more than Commanded.
@@Chirhopher If a Roman Soldier wanted to leave the army, he would be executed... The Apostle wasn't going to tell him to tell his superiors that he was resigning b/c the Apostle knew that meant death for the Soldier... In the Roman Empire, soldiers did more than just soldiering by the way
So, do you think Luke 22:36 gives Christians a right to go to war? "Then said he (Jesus) unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one".
Self defense isn't war.
@@bigmike5785 So, if Muslims cut off our heads we Christians can defend ourselves and go to war.
@@billyr9162 Sounds good to me.
@@danielm3143 No.
@@mosesenoch5272 What do you think it means in Luke 22:36?
You're in the Military you do not get to choose who, what, where and when and why you fight and the CIC tells you were going into say Iraq. If you're a Christian then you'll never serve your 20 years and retire if you cannot morally fight an offensive war and thus it shuts the Military down as a career opportunity for a Christian. Or am I hearing this wrong I appreciate this podcast it crossed a lot of t's and dotted alot of I's for me.
It depends on if you're commanding officer gives you a illegal order . I believe that war is morally right if it your last option.
"He's Captian America" hahahaha
2:20 Start
So, when are you going to run for Congress or Senate? You could speak circles around these politicians. You are cool with ending immigration too, right? Since the 1965 immigration act we moved from a preference of Western folk to opening it up to the whole world. We now realize that not only is there a cultural factor, but there is a voting factor too. We all know minorities (and i love em!) vote overwhelmingly democrat.
How are we suppose to win the fight against abortion when more pro lifers die every year than are being born, and the people replacing them vote Democrat. You can apply this same problem to the fight for our first and second amendments too.
No one wants to answer this dilemma, Jeremy from Crosspolitic blocked me over the same question. I pray one of my heroes(Pastor Jeff) doesn't do the same.
The only reason why they vote that way is perceived hostility from the conservative movement in the United states . You would get more pro life people if their wasn't hostility towards them.
@@woobiefuntime lol ok
@stresser 123 I think different people build different civilizations.
@@infidelhardcore7881 that can be true but the west is a amalgamation of different cultures
@@woobiefuntime wrong. Western culture is European culture. It doesn't mean Western hemisphere, it means Western European. America, Canada, and Australia were made as outposts of Europe.
My initial point stands unrefuted. European folk will become a minority in America by 2040. When the founding stock disappear so will the civilization they created.
All the good arguments and rhetoric mean nothing when you look at Pew Research and see the racial breakdown when it comes to supporting issues.
Eye for an eye originally comes from Hammurabi's code.
Allah will punishes those who declare war on the non beliver
Givin the Standard that The MESSIAH Will Uphold and Establish The TORAH. How can JESUS Let the Adultress go, if She was Caught in the Act?
Given the standard that God is Just AND the Justifier how does He forgive your sin? In fact how can He be both Holy/Just and pronounce you guilty and yet be the One who forgives your failure to obey His righteous Law? Romans 3:21-26 especially v 26
There are many tensions in scripture. Departure from any biblical truth is a mere nuance to the right or left. That is all that it takes for truth to become false teaching. A slight or minor departure! Genesis 3:1-7
This idea should quench any thought that mans' will is not imprisoned under the curse of sin and exiled from a right relationship with God since the fall of Adam. So that if God does not initiate drawing you to Himself you would NEVER come. Adam is the father of disobedience and we (once) were sons of disobedience. Eph. 2:1-2 Col. 3:6
Moreover, John 7:53-8:11 is NOT in the best MSS. Your bible should have a foot note to that aaffect. So those verses are not a good example to use because of variant readings.
You guys, just a minute in, said what I was thinking. If Biden wins, he wouldnt actually be the president.
He wouldn't seek another term. Harris would be running in 2024 . I have no problem with that because trump is worse. The people he has running the government is making things worse. Like allowing toxic chemicals into water around coal plants. That's depraved and negates the his pro life position
Vote2020 Tom Hoefling and Andy Prior they are abolishionists.
So Do you want Christianity to stay cause without prophet Muhammad Christianity would be dead
I cannot imagine Jesus saying some of the things Jeff or his guests say here. "We have lots of guns" or "I wish we (Canadians) had a second amendment." And other things of that nature. I can relate because there was a time when I would have said similar things. But I think there is something about this whole perspective that is way out of sync with Jesus and his apostles, both their teaching and the example they left to us.
One idea to consider... You could interpret the scriptures in a way that supports Just War or in a way that supports biblical nonviolence. I think a good way to get at the truth is to look at the historic teaching of the church. And the fact is that every single pre-Nicene Christian writer / apologist... EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM... who deals with this issue all say the same thing: Christians cannot use violence ever, not in self-defense and not in the military. It isn't until Ambrose and mostly Augustine that Just War comes along, after the church made friends with Rome. In 300 AD, joining the Roman military would get you excommunicated from the church. By the early 400s, you could not join the Romans army unless you were a Christian. That is a drastic shift...
Just War is not an apostolic teaching, and that is a fact. You cannot trace it historically to the apostles. This is a serious issue because this is a "sermon on the mount issue". It is part of the will of Jesus Father that he teaches there. That narrow path that only a few find. And only a few have held to it over the centuries after Augustine. If we want to say that the entire apostolic / pre-Nicene church was somehow mistaken, okay, but I think that's a crazy idea. I think this is an enormous blind spot in today's church that is going to cost many of us the kingdom of God. Nonviolence might sound nuts to us today since we learn Just War from the time we are young and grow up on a steady diet of movies like Braveheart, Gladiator, Saving Private Ryan, etc. If we are going to get in line with Jesus on this issue, we're going to have to go through a difficult paradigm shift
God bless you guys..
@Keksi thanks. Do you have any channels you would recommend?
@Keksi did he say that we need to make war against the infidels? No. That we need to kill all unbelievers? No. God didn't give them a "right" to defend themselves. And we aren't told not to defend ourselves. And when it comes to tyranny, yes we are not to bend the knee to that governing body. The government is Gods institution to deal out His justice. But when that government is unrighteous and unjust, and believes that they are the law, then we are told not to submit. Submit to God, not to man. Ever heard of Lex Rex? Law is King. It inspired the revelutionary war, and the English civil war when Charles I believed himself to be king above Gods law.
Jesus told Peter AFTER he cut off the ear of the high priest servant to PUT AWAY your sword. If his (Jesus) kingdom were of this world, then would his servants fight to deliver him from the Jews. If there ever was a time for a Just War, then wouldn't the arrest and inevitable crucifixion of Jesus Christ be the perfect time to engage in violence? The execution of Jesus Christ IS the most unjust event in ALL of history! As tempting as it is to pick up a "sword", I find it hard under the new covenant to justify going to war. Shouldn't Christians in the early church have been fighting Rome's wars to defend the empire against barbarians? No, we know from history that they willingly died in arenas and using other tortuous and crude methods for the faith. Think about that.
53:25-57:30 Should be played at the start. Clearest statement of the 'Just War' theory being discussed.
Arbitrary criteria, with no scriptural basis, severely weakens this "Just War" argument:
1) "Legitimate declaration of war by legitimate authority" - so a nation state? which didn't exist in the 4th century? An Empire? Which Empire? only Christian Empires? What about Christian militias? Is a tribe legitimate? Does this declaration need to be passed through both houses of a legislature? What if democrats support it?
2) "Just Cause" - someone, anyone - define this meaningfully. The (resource, nationalistic, patriotic) causes and agendas of earthly kingdoms are never fully aligned with the Kingdom of God, full stop. And when, ever, has a 'defensive action' not devolved into an all-out war? Wouldn't combating Mao or Stalin's slaughter, Rwandan genocide, genocide in East Timor, or the Khmer Rouge qualify as 'just'? Which 'legitimate authority' took up the cause to end these slaughters?
3) Intention is "restoration of God's order". When has God's order and peace ever been 'restored' thanks to an act of war? Civil war (ask the Native Americans)? World War 1? (Ask the Germans)? World War 2? (Ask the Japanese, Brits, Filipinos, Vietnamese)? Vietnam War? Iraq?
4) "Proportionality" - ok - fair enough, balance. When has this ever happened in the course of human history - when an act of war was, 1-for-1, responded to 'proportionally' and it resulted in a clean, sown-up victory for what is just and right and true?
WW2? First off, most of Hitler's Germans were Christians and were supported by the Catholic Church. Second, as a thought experiment, place yourself in the shoes of a German citizen in the 1930s and think through the 4 criteria above:
1) Of course they had a right to incite war as they were under threat of bolshevism and other anti-German elements from without and within. "Gott mit uns"
2) Of course it was just because Germans were the best, most advanced, most moral, and a Germanized Europe (especially the elimination of Bolshevism) would be a more right, just, advanced, and true world - more in line with God's will. " Gott mit uns"
3) Enough said in #2 - Germany was a victim and needed to be restored as the right, righteous country of the best and most advanced people
4) Vengeance for WWI, combatting threatening elements from without and within.
Wars are fought for selfish, nationlistic reasons and justified as moral actions both during and after the fact. This is the case, without exception.
My argument is not that nations should not go to war - nations, as kingdoms of this world have to deal and manage their own affairs for their own interests. Very clear and open for debate. The question is about Christians and what our stance should be, as well as what should be preached from the pulpit. "Peacemaking" means ending the neverending and escalating chain of violence, not justifying state actions by stamping them with our unique Christian values of love, peace, justice, mercy, etc.
@@remonel2354 so you are saying Jesus was not born to die? That the Way of Salvation could have come by some other means? What bible do you read? The one where man is god and God is dead? That man is greater than his Creator and knows more about implementing His Covenants and fulfilling His promises than does the LORD? That God is unable to keep His word and fulfill the prophecies He declared? Get the point yet?
Why did Peter even have a sword? I mean, wouldn't Jesus have rebuked him at some point BEFORE the garden and His arrest if it was wrong? The WHOLE of the bible, the 66 inspired books of both Covenants, relay the WHOLE plan of redemption. To favor one over the other or to NOT KNOW OR READ THE OLD COVENANT is one reason many folks fail to comprehend the whole plan of redemption.
Hosea 4:1-7
1Listen to the word of the LORD, you sons of Israel,
Because the LORD has a case against the inhabitants of the land,
For there is no faithfulness, nor loyalty,
Nor knowledge of God in the land.
2There is oath-taking, denial, murder, stealing, and adultery.
They employ violence, so that bloodshed follows bloodshed.
3Therefore the land mourns,
And everyone who lives in it languishes
Along with the animals of the field and the birds of the sky,
And even the fish of the sea disappear.
4Yet let no one find fault, and let no one rebuke;
For your people are like those who contend with a priest.
5So you will stumble by day,
And the prophet also will stumble with you by night;
And I will destroy your mother.
6My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.
Since you have rejected knowledge,
I also will reject you from being My priest.
Since you have forgotten the Law of your God,
I also will forget your children.
Ethnicity does not equate to salvation.
Can Christians go to war? Yes! Should Christians go to war? No, not for this country!! It'd be like Christians during the time of Nero, joining his army. Let's give loving our enemy a legit shot first
@Cassus Belli Hopefully long enough to share the gospel with anyone who would hear it
@Cassus Belli sure, but every pre-Constantine church father advised against it.
@@BenjaminWirtz it worked because there was whole units of Christian's before Constantine. I don't know how long they lasted. I heard about it a documentary a few years ago
The Bible 'book' = a compendium of fire side tales and fables,
recounted orally ,
for generations by goat herders and primitive tribes from the stone age,
until writing was invented,
and then, many different sources, transliterations, and versions were copied and written down..
''The Bible was created during a time where stories were verbally passed down over hundreds of years.
Stories constantly morphed and changed over time, and the Bible is a collection of these.
This is why it has the nearly identical flood story from Gilgamesh, and why Jesus has the same characteristics as Dionysus, Osiris, Horus, Mithra, and Krishna.
The contradictions and immorality in the stories are not evidence that God is flawed or evil,
but rather that humans invented him, just like the thousands of other gods that we used to, but no longer believe in.''
..and to answer the questions of the many fears and mysteries of our universe, like 'thunder' and earthquakes, since there was no science yet.
That was the old Testament...
The new Testes is also hearsay since these letters, 'gospels' and stories were written by the loyal faithful, the camp followers,
not by objective historians at that particular time,
or by any contemporary writers,
and these tales were written many years after the supposed events of this mythical Jesus.
There is essentially very little evidence of a Jesus in real documented history.
A couple of spurious Roman reports, and all the rest anecdotal.
...but more importantly ...a jesus' existence is not an issue!
A jesus is irrelevant without a god !
Then, many of these stories, but not all, as many were not chosen,
[ There are more than just four Gospels but only these four were agreed on ],
were compiled for one self-absorbed converted Roman Emperor in his Nicean Council,
for his expressed purpose of conquest
and
control of the people of Europe for his Holy Roman Empire.
He recognised that this was the perfect religion/mythology for the future domination of the populaces.
Half of the stories were ignored by the Nicean Bishops and none have been proven to be based on fact.
This 'Bable' book is backed up by absolutely no facts and no evidence.
It is not proof for any god(s) ....(or of any jesus as a god...)
The fables are intertwined within historical places and people...
eg Egypt and the Pharaohs existed,
whereas Moses and the Exodus did not happen...!
It is a historical novel
.... ie A book of fiction....
Only!
The Bible book is proof of a book ... ONLY (certainly not evidence of any gods...)
PROVE a god!
Prove there is no GOD!
OH MY MAN, you get to far...It's not your job to kill him to save her...You sound too attached to life (read scriptures better)...Maybe she's paying for her sins or the sins of her parents...Anyway, war has to be done but only to protect God's Kingdom, not to apply man's justice. Think about the seed.
Report this site For Child Abuse - For Fake News - For false information!!!
Report ALL religious sites - Often!!
You the son of Adam, if you don't Stop! worshipping a man chosen by God who eats food like you, then know the 1 God of Abraham is a jealous God and He will destroy you! and your destruction will NOT bother him in the least. If you accept his final prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him and his All-Messengers) It will be best for you if you have any understanding.
Yahweh says: You shall have NO OTHER GODS before Me!
There is no prophet by the name of which you say!
Yahweh has the power of life and death and no other God is any match for HIM!
You are condemned already unless you repent and believe the message that Jesus, IS THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD!
John 3:35-36
35The Father loves the Son and has entrusted all things to His hand. 36The one who believes in the Son has eternal life; but the one who does not [m]obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.”