Isaac isn’t originally part of the graphic novels, which I think is why his character was so minimal especially in season one. He replaces Aled, who has his own book (I wanna say Radio Silence?), so they didn’t want to adapt him in this without the rest of his story. I do think he is also on the ace spectrum though
Loveless is another novel they wrote that explores an around ace protagonist (doesn't excuse the treatment of Issac, but if you are looking for rep, you may find it more satisfying).
Aled is demisexual and in a romantic relationship throughout the book, though their demisexuality is only revealed near the end of Radio Silence, as it had been causing friction.
Honestly, I think the underdevelopment of Isaac’s character is the one of the biggest weaknesses of Heartstopper, and I agree with a lot of what you said. I think the struggle here was that in Season 2, there were SO many plot lines going on that there wasn’t enough time to give Isaac’s storyline proper development in eight 30 minute episodes. That having been said, I think they should have trimmed back some of the other stuff to make room, because he deserved more. In terms of the writer’s perspective, here’s what I’ve ascertained: 1) Alice wrote all the scripts herself. There was no writing team. She is fully accountable for how it turned out. 2) Alice has said that she sees herself most in Isaac, not just from the aroace perspective, but from the quiet bookworm perspective. My impression is that Alice has written him kinda the way she experienced school, being pushed to the side of the friend group, being peripheral to the teenager drama, being very quiet and non-confrontational, and preferring a book as company to everyone else. I don’t think she wrote Isaac that way because she didn’t care about him as a character, but because we were supposed to see how people didn’t value him because he was different, and they were so wrapped up in themselves. He’s very self-contained, and because he doesn’t open up about his pain or vulnerability, he doesn’t get much support from the friend group. Charlie and Elle spent a lot of time in crisis the previous year, and Tao is consumed by his own angst. He’s like the littlest bird in the nest who doesn’t get fed as much because he’s not screaming as loud as the other chicks at feeding time. Isaac has tons of fans in the HS fandom who are pulling for him, and I think he was meant to be depicted as lonely, alienated, and ignored as a critique of the friend group. 3) There is an unconfirmed fan theory that there was a deleted scene where Isaac’s friends apologize to him and patch things up, but it was cut for time. Regardless, I am REALLY hoping that Isaac is able to shake them out of their self-centered myopia in Season 3 and truly make them understand how much they take him for granted or exclude him. It’s going to take Isaac finding his voice and speaking his truth loudly enough for people to shut up and listen, and I think THAT will be the inflection point of when this turns from weak representation to worthy representation. The problem is that the quiet personality of the character combined with the barely talked-about sexuality he’s discovering make the aroace self-discovery story arc too understated. Either there is redemption to be had in Season 3 where it gets thoroughly explored, or we will see that Alice’s plans for universal rep were just too ambitious for the scope of the show.
What I thought was he’s kind of invisible. Which ironically fits the aro ace character since it’s the invisible orientation. Also I totally related to Isaac throughout the whole show 😅 for example the scene with the celebrity crush I either made up something or said that I don’t have one and got laughed at so yeah idk… but I hope that we get a more fleshed out character portrait of Isaac in season three.
I really hope in season 3 we get an episode where Isaac gives an actual PowerPoint presentation about being aro and ace. I also want a Loveless crossover, but you know, we can only hope.
@@janine5585 REAL, it's one of my favorite books, helped me realize that any "crushes" I had were purely platonic, so it definitely helped me figure out I was aroace :3
I think it’s interesting that Isaac takes the asexual stereotype of being overly factual and intelligent and sort of alien and shifts it to “he like literature, he can in fact be soft”. But it’s still super one dimensional! You can write an ace character who loves math, but also throw in something about a different hobby, show close friendships or something. The problem with stereotypes isn’t always that they’re inaccurate, it’s that they’re restrictive, and making him the quiet kid is almost just as restrictive!
On another note in most media (that I've seen anyway) aro and ace are treated as a package deal when that isn't the case for everyone. I would love to see more characters that are just ace spec or just aro spec. I think that would be a good thing to see as well
exactly!!! I was literally googling like “ace characters in movies/tv series”, but only got characters like Issac. Surprisingly I found a recent tv series in Japan about two asexual and aromatic characters trying to have their own family. I could really relate to that series as an Asian.
There's this new anime called Romantic Killer, I think. Is SO good. Many people headcanon her as aroace, but I think shes aromantic. She values friendships more than romance, and she constantly avoids it. But she's not blind, she does mention a lot on how handsome or sexy or pretty some people she meets are. Like she has had crushes on videogame and movie characters. All of the characters are so well written. Is on Netflix.
Really? That’s completely different from what I’ve seen. I know of several canonically ace characters, including two other Heartstopper characters (one being the character Isaac replaced from the comics), two bojack horseman characters, a girl in sex education, Alastor from Hazbin Hotel, the main character in a fictional story about school shootings, and several others I’ve seen mentioned in synopses for books I haven’t read. However, I only know one other canonically aroace character, and that’s Georgia and likely her cousin from Loveless, a book that was also written by Alice Oseman. While I’ve seen crappy queer-coding, headcanons, and heavy suggestions of aromanticism with characters such as the aforementioned Alastor along with Lilith from TOH, these two Alice Oseman characters are the only aroace representation I’m actively aware of in fictional media, despite the dozen or so exclusively ace characters I’ve found.
@@DawnOfWonder868 Exactly!! Aside from the ones you've mentioned, There's also a main character from Heartbreak High, a lead character in The Imperfects, The lead of The Magnus Archives and one of the characters in Legends of Tomorrow who are ace but not aro. I hear this a lot where people keep saying that there is only aroace rep out there but aside from Loveless and that one Japanese Drama (koisenu futari) i literally haven't come across any aroace rep at all. I would love to see more rep of people on the spectrum or those who are just aro or just ace, but I really wish people would stop championing for less aroace rep because there really isn't any out there
Personally I disagree with most of your points: Alice always tries to create relatable characters and realistic storylines and nobody caring about Isaac because he doesn't have his own romance going on is (as sadly as it is) super realistic. I feel like it also gives the show more room to make the characters grow in the next seasons (Isaac will probably come out at some point and his friends will learn more about his identity and ace identites in general). But I agree with what you said about how it was weird that he immediatly made up with his friends after his (totally understandable) outburst. I just thought it was bad editing (if the scenes were not directly placed one after the other, it wouldn't be so weird to watch).
@@OverlyPositiveFanboy same lol (I've learned to behave more social in contexts where it is expected, like at work for example, but it is not my natural state of being). I also don't like it when people equal "not talking" to "has nothing to say/is not interesting". I mean Isaac is just the perfect example for "still waters run deep".
yeah i was mad at how they didn’t even apologize, even though they are shown as very accepting and understanding people to each other who try their best to keep their friendship. Isaac sadly is always left out. and it does remind me of real life. i’m not interesting because i don’t have romantic drama going on. i’m not aromantic, no one’s just ever liked me like that ig. but at high school especially, most conversations are about relationship drama and gossip. so it’s pretty realistic how that happened. i think the representation would be good if they just apologized. i love Isaac for the rest of the (very few) scenes he got. i did. read the webtoon, but honestly don’t remember much about Isaac… like at all.
Yeah i definitely feel that. I really was surprised when none of his friends seemed to care. I felt like even Darcy got more care then he did which because of her storyline I get but I was like ok you can write the other characters caring about one of their friends.
As an older Aro/Ace(who only learned this label in the last five years), I know for a fact that my entire life was full of drama but didnt have any romance quality to it. People were just afraid of me, because I didnt seem to act right. Could be friends with males and females with no tension on my part, completely oblivious about guys hitting on me and just (in their eyes) irrationally upset when their gfs got jealous and not understanding why. You dont need drama in your life, you need good friends who accept you completely, sexuality or lack thereof included. I rarely identify with anyone in the movies and often root for the villains for feeling left out of things and not recognised as not just *a straight in denial or just too picky*. I dont know how old you are but it will get better. Just focus on yourself, any hobbies or interests you might have and let the right people be drawn to your personality. The rest will happen on its own, if it wants to.
To add onto the comments already here, Aled (the 4th member of the friend group in the books) had a similar issue, where he was just kind of there and didn't get any character development. As a huge fan of Heartstopper, the books and show, I desperately hope for Isaac to get the screen time he deserves. I absolutely love Isaac and when I found out he was aro-ace I got so happy, this was the first asexual representation I had seen personally. Spoiler for the new book: Tori (Charlie's sister) comes out as ace and is shown navigating her growing relationship with Michael Holden even though she doesn't feel attracted to him in a sexual way
@@bipashachakraborty7632 yeh, Ive read radio silence. And even if I didn't, it's been posted so many times in this comment section 😂. I love the Demi rep so much, it made the book that much more special
I agree it's a bit jarring that, given how caring they generally all are with each other, we don't see any of Isaac's friends follow up to make sure he's okay after his outburst during the shopping outing. But I think it happened in some form off screen; it's significant that, in the next scene, Elle chooses Isaac to escort her in to the art show. I also hope that we'll see more of Isaac's story in Season 3. Oh, and the aroace artist character is presumably a current student at Lambert and therefore would be between 16 and 19. ("College" or "sixth form" in England is a two-year level in between secondary school and university.) So yes, older than Isaac, who is 15 at this time, but not by a lot. Otherwise, though, wow, I really disagree that Isaac is disregarded or superfluous! True, he doesn't say very much, especially in S1, but he's clearly shown (including through his book choices) to know a lot more than he says, every line he does have is super important, and his friendship with the rest of the art-room four is shown in multiple ways to be strong and accepting. My 19yo aro-ace child found the "celebrity crush" thing and really the whole party scene in S2E6 entirely relatable. Anyway, I'm sorry you didn't find the representation you hoped for in the show...I just want everyone to love it as much as I do. :)
as a fellow aroace myself, i was so happy to see at least some kind of rep, i was willing to overlook a lot in favor of that. (i mean, the bar is extremely low, so asexuality or aromanticism being even slightly mentioned is a pretty big deal, especially in a huge show like that). i wish i had that growing up because i literally didn’t now that aromanticism or asexuality even existed until i was 18. if you are interested in some good rep tho, Alice Oseman has a whole book called Loveless, where the main character is aroace and figures this out throughout the book. i loved it so much, it’s basically the story of my life, highly recommend
You should watch the J-drama, A Couple Without Falling in Love. It's about two AroAce people who try to become a family of their own. Personally, I really liked it because it was cute and it shows aroace people as being normal!!!
SPOILERS FOR "LOVELESS" - ALICE OSEMAN'S ARO/ACE NOVEL One of the things I adored about this book was the scene where Georgia (who has finally started accepting her identity) recognises that her older cousin is also aro/ace, and they discuss and bond over it. It does a good job at having these people from different generations be each other's mentor in a way (one providing a glimpse of what the future could be like, and the other revealing that there is in fact a label and a community out there to discover).
i remember watching the scene where Isaac had an outburst, and i remember thinking that scene was well writen. Isaacs freinds dont say anything then and there, because theyre so suprised that the "quiet shy kid" had an outburst liike that. But then 2 scenes later Isaacs there like nothing happened. Theres no apology, no nothing. I think Isaac as a character will probably be redeemed in season 3 though.
What bugs me about most aroace reps is that they keep being a stereotype cause not every aroace experience is the same it's a spectrum and not all aces are aro and not all aros are ace I'm aro and possibly somewhere on the ace spectrum and in a relationship we just respect each other's boundaries I'm very neutral when it comes to romantic and sexual things just wish representation was more diverse and not the same ever time
But I think it is the first time it is this kind of representation? I am always looking for aroace representation but there is only ace representation and always a bit of romance so it was a first time for me ! But i hope you can find a representation that would be perfect for you ❤️
Have you read Loveless by Alice Oseman? Maybe you‘ll find better representation there as the storyline is about the journey of someone discovering they are aroace. There are also a few other characters that are in that spectrum
Isaac was actually not in the show and they just put him in because the original character has a connection with another book from the author. I think that's why they didn't gave him this much screentime because the focus of the show and the books is on nick and charlie. We also don't know that much about Elles story because it's not the focus of the show. I actually think they did a good job because they gave every character screentime but have their focus on nick and charlie as the main characters. The author published another book named ,,loveless" which is focussing on the life of an aroace character and the struggles of finding out about being aroace. I would be so happy if this book also would make it on tv because it's the best aroace representation. I don't know if you know this book but i would really like to hear your opinion about it.
I love Isaac, and really loved his arc, but I totally agree with you. No repercussion after his outburst, not one friend went to talk to him? Shame, Paris group. Shame.
A little late to the party and I was just thinking about this too. I finished HeartStopper a little over a month ago with my aunt and remembered getting so excited on the notion and conversation of AroAce rep, considering how rare it is and often not the sole focus. Especially after Alice’s IG post about it having and diving into AroAce Rep in S2, only to finish the season and feel…disappointed. Now I’m biased since I didn’t really overly question my AroAce orientation and was lucky to have friends that didn’t pressure me too much into a relationship and it was more self pressure vs external pressure from others. Only to now realize that I wanted a Queer Platonic Relationship and honestly thought that was what they were going for with James( I think that’s his name) with Issac! And really explore that line of relationships and feelings! Now this might still be a conversation and I genuinely hope so for S3. I hope Issac grows to be proud of being AroAce! I hope Queer Platonic Relationships are discussed, and just the amazing variety there is when it comes to being Aromantic-Asexual and the fulfilling life we can and do have with it! We deserve to feel pride in our identities too as the other characters in the series do and irl in the queer community. 🖤🩶🤍💚 🖤🩶🤍💜✨
You are awesome lynn sadly whatever asexual representation mostly isn't done accurate a lot of the media fully understand asexuality so aren' really sure on how to correctly dipict on screen with a lot of channels like yours will promote asexuality love you're channel you are a very intelligent person
It's such a hard sexuality to show because it can look so different to each asexual person so I think that's why I've only really liked Todd from Bojack
@@lynnsaga1397the book Loveless, also written by Alice Oseman, has an aro ace main character and the story shows how important friendship is. I recommend!
I do definitely see where you’re coming from and wish we got to see just a little bit more of Issac’s personal thoughts and struggles coming to terms and figuring out the fact he’s aro ace. But it’s definitely still something. And hopefully Isaac’s character will continue to grow and we’ll keep learning more about him
I saw a similar person talk about how they don't like Issac either so that's why i watched this! I hope we see more Issac in S3, like an episode that shows a LOT of him and how he's feeling. i also hope he can talk to James about this (it's always nice to have friends outside your main friend group) and he can come out to the gang! I just really hope heartstopper can redeem themselves with Issac and his aro-ace discovery. I'm AroAce and how I've felt my whole life (No crushes, no sexual or romantic attraction and i never thought about being in a relationship and stuff like that) is how I everyone else felt, but GOD I WAS SO WRONG. So i guess I would want someone to represent an AroAce character like that, they think how they feel is how everyone else feels? I am OBSESSED with Heartstopper and I really agree with this video actually, Subscribed!
I think that Georgia from Loveless and Todd from Bojack horseman are probably the best examples that come to my head when I think about Aro/ace rep. In Loveless the main plot of the story was about the realization and accepting of being aroace, so it was pretty deep and i even felt understood in many ways I haven't before, while with Todd that definitely wasn't the main focus of the story, I think they did a great job as developing it through the whole series! It's not like we got that many examples to compare, but still lol
I find it really hard to relate to aroace characters in movies and books because while I like to read, like him. I am actually pretty extroverted and like to speak with a lot of friends. It was really hard to figure out I was aroace because I only ever saw a stereotyped version of the sexuality. Since I never saw an Aroace people like me, I assumed I just wasn’t ace because any queer representation of them, that I saw, was a quiet kid. A lot of aroace people are very quiet so this is good representation (I’m not trying to say his rep is bad)
Honestly, I'm glad this video exists. Everyone has been losing their minds about how "good" this representation is, how its groundbreaking, and I just don't see it. I've felt more represented by characters who weren't even written to be aroace
I haven’t watched Heartstopper yet (just read books 1-4 very recently - Isaac does not exist). I’m pretty sure you’re right that Oseman is aro/ace. They wrote another book called Loveless which in many ways is excellent at portraying the struggles of figuring out that you’re aro/ace in a world that places so much importance on romantic and sexual love. But the book also places SO much emphasis on what the aro/ace character’s friends think of it and how they’re impacted by it, to the point where the narrative treats her as being “selfish” for trying to figure herself out instead of prioritizing their feelings and making sure she doesn’t confuse or hurt the people around her. And that’s struck me as strange for a long time.
I think I love him so much because on top of aroace I am also super shy and cute so I relate a lot In season 1 you can see that he is an observer like most introvert people, so he doesn't speak a lot but when he does he is accurate And I like that a character can be shy
And for me the season 2 arc was about coming in, and understanding who you are. And that moved me a lot because as you say it was a lonely path for me, and I liked that it was a lonely path for him too, and I think season 3 will be about Isaac coming out !!
6:33 oh my god the celebrity crush thing! As a trans man most of my “celebrity crushes” were just men i wanted to be, but everyone assumes im attracted to them which invalidates both my identities :((
Well, as far as ace rep goes, Isaac is the best we got as far as live action shows in the mainstream media (at least as far as I have seen). The fact that they actually use the words aromantic and asexual is what makes him good rep. Because, as far as I’ve seen, ace characters in other shows are more like an afterthought. They may be officially ace or aro, but nobody would know it unless they looked it up. You wouldn’t even know by just consuming the media. For example, Lilith from the Owl House. She’s canonically aroace, but it’s never really mentioned on screen. If you didn’t already know about aromantism and asexuality, you wouldn’t have a clue that Lilith is aroace. I like the rep that Isaac provides because it’s actual, real aro ace representation, and it shows the potential struggles that someone who is aroace might go through. Isaac may be a newer, less fleshed out character, but he is solid aroace rep compared to other shows.
i would like to see Loveless or solitare more. Loveless is so nice to describe acearo or in new solitare, the main character (Charlies sister) finally release she is on aro/ace apectrum. BUT i liked the scene, how issac was crying on the balcony. I refered myself to it so much.
OK I found myself disagreeing with some of your points. I think the whole thing about Isaac being a bookworm ... I know people were like "Nobody walks around with a book like that all the time" and I was like a) I did and b) OMG. Just because he's the first openly aro/ace character in teen lit he has to now carry the weight of all the ace rep? I did have issues about his friends not running after him. But when everything was fine at the next scene I kept thinking there was a deleted scene I missed. I have a feeling we'll see a lot more in the next season.
I don't like how he reads books the whole time haha! Yes we may read books but not in social situations especially with friends 😅 That scene when he finds out at the museum is beautiful though 😊
i am a nerdy loner aro ace 💀so to me it does seem to be realistic, but I think they truly did just lack giving him more lines or more in depth subplot or lore about him, even if he is a subplot in every episode would be fine, but they straight up ignore him and rationalize it as him just being too shy to talk, therefore that's why he doesn't get lines, which is a bs excuse
As an aroace person I have to disagree with almost everything you said. While I do believe there is a genuine critique to be made of Isaac in season 1, I have never felt more seen than with his season 2 character. I constantly read or crochet even while hanging out with friends or family because there’s too much empty space where I’m being left out if I don’t. I’ve seen over and over again how aroaces get left out of queer spaces, even if it’s simply because we’re not thought of. Heck the most left out I’ve felt because of being aroace was with a group of three other queer people. I think the ignoring of Isaac’s issues by his friends is intentional writing to show how they just don’t get it and don’t understand how to deal with his struggles because maybe they don’t know what aroace is themselves. As for the comment about aroace being seen as a package deal, I completely disagree. I know of several canonically ace characters, including two other Heartstopper characters (one being the character Isaac replaced from the comics), two bojack horseman characters, a girl in sex education, Alastor from Hazbin Hotel, the main character in a fictional story about school shootings, and several others I’ve seen mentioned in synopses for books I haven’t read. However, I only know one other canonically aroace character, and that’s Georgia and likely her cousin from Loveless, a book that was also written by Alice Oseman. While I’ve seen crappy queer-coding, headcanons, and heavy suggestions of aromanticism with characters such as the aforementioned Alastor along with Lilith from TOH, these two Alice Oseman characters are the only aroace representation I’m actively aware of in fictional media, despite the dozen or so exclusively ace characters I’ve found.
Also I find it quite contradictory that you were mostly upset about how his character was ignored, but said that the only good part of his representation was the realistic-ness of him constantly being ignored (Also just thought I should note that this is meant as genuine criticism, not a hate comment. If it comes across that way you can just delete this, as it genuinely wasn’t my intention. I wasn’t gonna comment but this was genuinely bugging me because of how incredibly represented Isaac’s season 2 character made me feel. I couldn’t sleep without getting this off my chest)
AroAce coded characters and AroAce implied characters > Issac Even Peridot turns out to be a better representative of AroAce (thanks to Sugar's interview from 2023 and her fusion book from 2017, since Sugar did not confirm the same statements that Maya said in 2020; because Petersen told us that she doesn't have the ultimate autority) or any current or past character being Aroace turns out to be better than Issac, because Alice should stop bragging about "Big Ace plans" because it makes it clear that she doesn't care about the Aspec community. We are a spectrum, we have experiences, we have preferences and above all we have a totally unique life with our orientations, also we can also be Aro, Ace, AroAce, AroAllo, AceAllo and any Aspec identity; since there are many of our identities that can be related and sometimes not but we are not a stereotypical monolith like Isaac. Creating an AroAce character is much more than just being a representative of their orientations, an AroAce character can show us their experiences, their discovery even if it is not getting them into relationships, but you cannot ignore self-discovery and personality in their daily life and their personal struggles both related to their orientations and the non-AroAce struggles, which that Alice forgot and just limited herself to creating a very vague "I like books" personality with a very rude conclusion that ruins the few AroAce hits and moments the character had.
Yeah Isaac also felt kinda flat to me, but luckly there's more rep on more of Alice's works, like Charlie's sister Tori who's also aroace and you have a whole book (Solitaire) from her perspective, and also another of Alice's books who's main character is also aroace Loveless
as a greysexual aromantic with plenty of personal issues around loneliness and alienation, it really just reinforces the feeling that that part of my identity doesn't matter and just exacerbates those feelings so much. i've always tried to feel sexual and romantic attraction but it doesn't work the way society wants me too. it's so dehumanising. also add neurodivergence and it just feels...uggggh.
I’ve tried to create my own aro/ace character recently, who is also non-binary & whose personality is the flamboyant stereotype usually given to gay men, which highlights how loyal they are to their friends. I don’t know if this counts as a subversion, but my intention is to avoid the robotic stereotype usually given to asexual characters.
Sorry if my English is bad, I'm Brazilian, but Isaac don't exist in the comic, instead has aled, what is demisexual, but alice oseman has a book about a aroace person (loveless)
Isaac is very heavily similar to the author Alice Oseman's experience as a teenager. They are aroace and were very quiet in amongst their friendship group, they have said in interviews. Isaac is very included in the friendship group in the capacity which he wishes. He is observant and has some great lines but prefers to be quiet. He seems to be incredibly comfortable in his friendship group, especially in season 1. All he wants to do is hang out with his friends and nothing more should be expected from him. Being introverted or even quiet in a busy loud friendship group is common and should be represented. His aroace identity is being slowly realised through the show in the same way that the author themselves took a while to understand their aroaceness. Alice being critiqued about how they are showing aroace identity through their two characters Isaac and Tori is so odd to me. Surely their experience deserves to be represented in characters they themselves have developed in a show they've written and created. I think Isaac is a specific type of character and is fully realised as we get to know him or he lets the audience get to know him. I found myself drawn to him in every scene because he says so much with his reactions and signals so much with the book he's engrossed in. When he speaks he is precise and well considered and bares being listened to because he is always right on point.
I watched season one of this show last year I think because I had heard people say how great it was and my friend really likes it, but part way through just thought "I'll finish it but boy I am way too aro for this". I didn't watch s2 when it came out and after hearing about this subject from you and some friends who felt similarly as you I'm totally fine with not seeing it
I kind of agree with you with the fact that any of his friends cared about what was happening to him but I dont know why, I actually like that because it shows you how bad is Isaac feeling in that moment
Promises "big ace things" for the season and delivers... a bog-standard Ace 101 storyline. Right down to the token ace character evaporating from the narrative afterwards. And people wonder why I'm so jaded every time someone announces that they're including an ace character. I know that I am well out of Oseman's target audience, but this is the second time they've done this exact story, they're not the first in a YA series to use these exact beats, and they weren't the last. This can't be healthy for both young aspecs, who are told that all that they can be is their coming-out & after that, they'd best make themselves small, and for non-aspec peers, who would probably reinforce these attitudes & have the impression that aspec stories are that limited & uninteresting. I wish desperately that we had more "own voices" creators than one that traffics in stereotypes & cliches.
I agree, although at least it was better than the representation in sex education. Still, my favourite ace representation on a teen show is Cash in the heartbreak high reboot.
11 months late but :3, What i will say is im pretty sure loveless, a book by alice, has really good rep, ot even made me realize...wait, i actually havent had a crush on someone, i realized most feelings i had any "crushes" (yes all three in my bloody school lifel) were purely platonic , and the book help me realize that (we ignore how i then thought i was lesbian.. delusional ik 😔) So i do need to read the book again, but from what i remember, kts has good rep, asexual people, aromamtic people (the book even goes into talking how you can be ace without being aro) But i do recommend it :3
I have been a fan & reader of heartstopper along w other Alice Oseman works since 2018, & the characterization of Isaac is veryyyyyyy underwhelming to me, especially in comparison to basically every other one if Oseman’s characters. It is hard for me to be critical of this representation, as I know that Oseman is capable of so much better (ESPECIALLY in regards to aroace characters; I am aroace myself) , but yeah… this rep kinda sucks
I loved the art scene as well!❤ Every asexual spectrum on a screen for me is already great. Never seen anything on the topic, tips are welcome btw. Opinions can vary, i'm demi and might feel more comfi with the scenes. Do i want more, yes absolutely🎉🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️🥳
I actually really hate the author of Heartstopper, which is why I didn’t want to watch it at all initially. Because Alice Oseman wrote a book called Loveless about an aroace character’s discovery and coming out journey and it wasn’t bad but there was another character there, Sunil, who was kinda the queer mentor figure for the main character, and Sunil is nonbinary and supposedly uses he/they pronouns, which is great, right? Because we don’t get enough representation as is and I’ve never seen a character canonically use multiple pronouns in a book or movie before, so that these pronouns are explicitly stated to be the pronouns they use is incredible. Right? Nope! Because even though it is stated multiple times throughout the book that Sunil uses he/they pronouns, THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE BOOK THE AUTHOR & CHARACTERS ONLY USE HE/HIM PRONOUNS FOR HIM! That makes me so angry, you’d think if you write a book and make a character use he/they pronouns you’d put some fucking research into what that means and how to use those pronouns. But Oseman just doesn’t do that at all, everyone only ever uses he/him pronouns and it’s never addressed! And NOBODY IS TALKING ABOUT THIS! WHY!?
i love that she is talking about issac being aro ace while in the books issacs counterpart alled is demisexual so there is nothing in the books except tori coming out as assexual in the 5 book sorry for spoilers
Somehow Issac feels like a victory & a curse in terms of aro/ace rep as far as this video is concerned. Then again, it was mainly Nick & Charlie who got the focus in the webcomics/graphic novels, which is why I’ve praised the show for further fleshing out their friends (who appeared in the comics).
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
Isaac isn’t originally part of the graphic novels, which I think is why his character was so minimal especially in season one. He replaces Aled, who has his own book (I wanna say Radio Silence?), so they didn’t want to adapt him in this without the rest of his story. I do think he is also on the ace spectrum though
That's good to know!
yes, aled is also from radio silence and Im pretty sure he is demi, but it has been a while since I read it
@@LinnaAP yes he is demi , it's my one of the most fav book
Loveless is another novel they wrote that explores an around ace protagonist (doesn't excuse the treatment of Issac, but if you are looking for rep, you may find it more satisfying).
Aled is demisexual and in a romantic relationship throughout the book, though their demisexuality is only revealed near the end of Radio Silence, as it had been causing friction.
Honestly, I think the underdevelopment of Isaac’s character is the one of the biggest weaknesses of Heartstopper, and I agree with a lot of what you said. I think the struggle here was that in Season 2, there were SO many plot lines going on that there wasn’t enough time to give Isaac’s storyline proper development in eight 30 minute episodes. That having been said, I think they should have trimmed back some of the other stuff to make room, because he deserved more. In terms of the writer’s perspective, here’s what I’ve ascertained:
1) Alice wrote all the scripts herself. There was no writing team. She is fully accountable for how it turned out.
2) Alice has said that she sees herself most in Isaac, not just from the aroace perspective, but from the quiet bookworm perspective. My impression is that Alice has written him kinda the way she experienced school, being pushed to the side of the friend group, being peripheral to the teenager drama, being very quiet and non-confrontational, and preferring a book as company to everyone else. I don’t think she wrote Isaac that way because she didn’t care about him as a character, but because we were supposed to see how people didn’t value him because he was different, and they were so wrapped up in themselves. He’s very self-contained, and because he doesn’t open up about his pain or vulnerability, he doesn’t get much support from the friend group. Charlie and Elle spent a lot of time in crisis the previous year, and Tao is consumed by his own angst. He’s like the littlest bird in the nest who doesn’t get fed as much because he’s not screaming as loud as the other chicks at feeding time. Isaac has tons of fans in the HS fandom who are pulling for him, and I think he was meant to be depicted as lonely, alienated, and ignored as a critique of the friend group.
3) There is an unconfirmed fan theory that there was a deleted scene where Isaac’s friends apologize to him and patch things up, but it was cut for time. Regardless, I am REALLY hoping that Isaac is able to shake them out of their self-centered myopia in Season 3 and truly make them understand how much they take him for granted or exclude him. It’s going to take Isaac finding his voice and speaking his truth loudly enough for people to shut up and listen, and I think THAT will be the inflection point of when this turns from weak representation to worthy representation. The problem is that the quiet personality of the character combined with the barely talked-about sexuality he’s discovering make the aroace self-discovery story arc too understated.
Either there is redemption to be had in Season 3 where it gets thoroughly explored, or we will see that Alice’s plans for universal rep were just too ambitious for the scope of the show.
What I thought was he’s kind of invisible. Which ironically fits the aro ace character since it’s the invisible orientation. Also I totally related to Isaac throughout the whole show 😅 for example the scene with the celebrity crush I either made up something or said that I don’t have one and got laughed at so yeah idk… but I hope that we get a more fleshed out character portrait of Isaac in season three.
I really hope in season 3 we get an episode where Isaac gives an actual PowerPoint presentation about being aro and ace.
I also want a Loveless crossover, but you know, we can only hope.
OMG I WOULD LOVE SOMETHING ON TV WITH LOVELESS
Loveless was an amazing book! Georgia was a great character and so were all her friends
That book was gutwrenching ... I cried my.eyes out ...would I love to see this in TV? Guess so . Nervous to cry even more. But hell yeah
@@janine5585 REAL, it's one of my favorite books, helped me realize that any "crushes" I had were purely platonic, so it definitely helped me figure out I was aroace :3
I think it’s interesting that Isaac takes the asexual stereotype of being overly factual and intelligent and sort of alien and shifts it to “he like literature, he can in fact be soft”. But it’s still super one dimensional! You can write an ace character who loves math, but also throw in something about a different hobby, show close friendships or something. The problem with stereotypes isn’t always that they’re inaccurate, it’s that they’re restrictive, and making him the quiet kid is almost just as restrictive!
On another note in most media (that I've seen anyway) aro and ace are treated as a package deal when that isn't the case for everyone. I would love to see more characters that are just ace spec or just aro spec. I think that would be a good thing to see as well
exactly!!! I was literally googling like “ace characters in movies/tv series”, but only got characters like Issac. Surprisingly I found a recent tv series in Japan about two asexual and aromatic characters trying to have their own family. I could really relate to that series as an Asian.
There's this new anime called Romantic Killer, I think.
Is SO good.
Many people headcanon her as aroace, but I think shes aromantic.
She values friendships more than romance, and she constantly avoids it.
But she's not blind, she does mention a lot on how handsome or sexy or pretty some people she meets are. Like she has had crushes on videogame and movie characters.
All of the characters are so well written.
Is on Netflix.
Really? That’s completely different from what I’ve seen. I know of several canonically ace characters, including two other Heartstopper characters (one being the character Isaac replaced from the comics), two bojack horseman characters, a girl in sex education, Alastor from Hazbin Hotel, the main character in a fictional story about school shootings, and several others I’ve seen mentioned in synopses for books I haven’t read. However, I only know one other canonically aroace character, and that’s Georgia and likely her cousin from Loveless, a book that was also written by Alice Oseman. While I’ve seen crappy queer-coding, headcanons, and heavy suggestions of aromanticism with characters such as the aforementioned Alastor along with Lilith from TOH, these two Alice Oseman characters are the only aroace representation I’m actively aware of in fictional media, despite the dozen or so exclusively ace characters I’ve found.
@@DawnOfWonder868 Exactly!! Aside from the ones you've mentioned, There's also a main character from Heartbreak High, a lead character in The Imperfects, The lead of The Magnus Archives and one of the characters in Legends of Tomorrow who are ace but not aro. I hear this a lot where people keep saying that there is only aroace rep out there but aside from Loveless and that one Japanese Drama (koisenu futari) i literally haven't come across any aroace rep at all. I would love to see more rep of people on the spectrum or those who are just aro or just ace, but I really wish people would stop championing for less aroace rep because there really isn't any out there
Personally I disagree with most of your points:
Alice always tries to create relatable characters and realistic storylines and nobody caring about Isaac because he doesn't have his own romance going on is (as sadly as it is) super realistic. I feel like it also gives the show more room to make the characters grow in the next seasons (Isaac will probably come out at some point and his friends will learn more about his identity and ace identites in general).
But I agree with what you said about how it was weird that he immediatly made up with his friends after his (totally understandable) outburst. I just thought it was bad editing (if the scenes were not directly placed one after the other, it wouldn't be so weird to watch).
I agree that it's realistic because I am that "quiet kid who is always reading."
@@OverlyPositiveFanboy same lol (I've learned to behave more social in contexts where it is expected, like at work for example, but it is not my natural state of being). I also don't like it when people equal "not talking" to "has nothing to say/is not interesting". I mean Isaac is just the perfect example for "still waters run deep".
yeah i was mad at how they didn’t even apologize, even though they are shown as very accepting and understanding people to each other who try their best to keep their friendship. Isaac sadly is always left out. and it does remind me of real life. i’m not interesting because i don’t have romantic drama going on. i’m not aromantic, no one’s just ever liked me like that ig. but at high school especially, most conversations are about relationship drama and gossip. so it’s pretty realistic how that happened. i think the representation would be good if they just apologized. i love Isaac for the rest of the (very few) scenes he got. i did. read the webtoon, but honestly don’t remember much about Isaac… like at all.
Yeah i definitely feel that. I really was surprised when none of his friends seemed to care. I felt like even Darcy got more care then he did which because of her storyline I get but I was like ok you can write the other characters caring about one of their friends.
As an older Aro/Ace(who only learned this label in the last five years), I know for a fact that my entire life was full of drama but didnt have any romance quality to it. People were just afraid of me, because I didnt seem to act right. Could be friends with males and females with no tension on my part, completely oblivious about guys hitting on me and just (in their eyes) irrationally upset when their gfs got jealous and not understanding why. You dont need drama in your life, you need good friends who accept you completely, sexuality or lack thereof included. I rarely identify with anyone in the movies and often root for the villains for feeling left out of things and not recognised as not just *a straight in denial or just too picky*. I dont know how old you are but it will get better. Just focus on yourself, any hobbies or interests you might have and let the right people be drawn to your personality. The rest will happen on its own, if it wants to.
Isaac wasn’t in the webtoon, he is an original character to the show
To add onto the comments already here, Aled (the 4th member of the friend group in the books) had a similar issue, where he was just kind of there and didn't get any character development. As a huge fan of Heartstopper, the books and show, I desperately hope for Isaac to get the screen time he deserves. I absolutely love Isaac and when I found out he was aro-ace I got so happy, this was the first asexual representation I had seen personally.
Spoiler for the new book: Tori (Charlie's sister) comes out as ace and is shown navigating her growing relationship with Michael Holden even though she doesn't feel attracted to him in a sexual way
aled got his own book, it's called radio silence and he is demi ( as long as I can remember)
@@bipashachakraborty7632 yeh, Ive read radio silence. And even if I didn't, it's been posted so many times in this comment section 😂. I love the Demi rep so much, it made the book that much more special
I agree it's a bit jarring that, given how caring they generally all are with each other, we don't see any of Isaac's friends follow up to make sure he's okay after his outburst during the shopping outing. But I think it happened in some form off screen; it's significant that, in the next scene, Elle chooses Isaac to escort her in to the art show. I also hope that we'll see more of Isaac's story in Season 3.
Oh, and the aroace artist character is presumably a current student at Lambert and therefore would be between 16 and 19. ("College" or "sixth form" in England is a two-year level in between secondary school and university.) So yes, older than Isaac, who is 15 at this time, but not by a lot.
Otherwise, though, wow, I really disagree that Isaac is disregarded or superfluous! True, he doesn't say very much, especially in S1, but he's clearly shown (including through his book choices) to know a lot more than he says, every line he does have is super important, and his friendship with the rest of the art-room four is shown in multiple ways to be strong and accepting. My 19yo aro-ace child found the "celebrity crush" thing and really the whole party scene in S2E6 entirely relatable. Anyway, I'm sorry you didn't find the representation you hoped for in the show...I just want everyone to love it as much as I do. :)
as a fellow aroace myself, i was so happy to see at least some kind of rep, i was willing to overlook a lot in favor of that. (i mean, the bar is extremely low, so asexuality or aromanticism being even slightly mentioned is a pretty big deal, especially in a huge show like that). i wish i had that growing up because i literally didn’t now that aromanticism or asexuality even existed until i was 18. if you are interested in some good rep tho, Alice Oseman has a whole book called Loveless, where the main character is aroace and figures this out throughout the book. i loved it so much, it’s basically the story of my life, highly recommend
loveless is a great book!!
You should watch the J-drama, A Couple Without Falling in Love. It's about two AroAce people who try to become a family of their own. Personally, I really liked it because it was cute and it shows aroace people as being normal!!!
SPOILERS FOR "LOVELESS" - ALICE OSEMAN'S ARO/ACE NOVEL
One of the things I adored about this book was the scene where Georgia (who has finally started accepting her identity) recognises that her older cousin is also aro/ace, and they discuss and bond over it. It does a good job at having these people from different generations be each other's mentor in a way (one providing a glimpse of what the future could be like, and the other revealing that there is in fact a label and a community out there to discover).
i remember watching the scene where Isaac had an outburst, and i remember thinking that scene was well writen. Isaacs freinds dont say anything then and there, because theyre so suprised that the "quiet shy kid" had an outburst liike that. But then 2 scenes later Isaacs there like nothing happened. Theres no apology, no nothing.
I think Isaac as a character will probably be redeemed in season 3 though.
What bugs me about most aroace reps is that they keep being a stereotype cause not every aroace experience is the same it's a spectrum and not all aces are aro and not all aros are ace I'm aro and possibly somewhere on the ace spectrum and in a relationship we just respect each other's boundaries I'm very neutral when it comes to romantic and sexual things just wish representation was more diverse and not the same ever time
But I think it is the first time it is this kind of representation? I am always looking for aroace representation but there is only ace representation and always a bit of romance so it was a first time for me !
But i hope you can find a representation that would be perfect for you ❤️
@@romanepottie6656 agreed
Have you read Loveless by Alice Oseman? Maybe you‘ll find better representation there as the storyline is about the journey of someone discovering they are aroace. There are also a few other characters that are in that spectrum
@@alexelion7084 I am sorry I did not see your comment, yes I've looked that book that my sister gave me when I came out 🥺❤️❤️ thank you !
Isaac was actually not in the show and they just put him in because the original character has a connection with another book from the author. I think that's why they didn't gave him this much screentime because the focus of the show and the books is on nick and charlie. We also don't know that much about Elles story because it's not the focus of the show. I actually think they did a good job because they gave every character screentime but have their focus on nick and charlie as the main characters.
The author published another book named ,,loveless" which is focussing on the life of an aroace character and the struggles of finding out about being aroace. I would be so happy if this book also would make it on tv because it's the best aroace representation.
I don't know if you know this book but i would really like to hear your opinion about it.
One bit I love from Loveless is the bit where Georgia bonds with her cousin.
I love Isaac, and really loved his arc, but I totally agree with you. No repercussion after his outburst, not one friend went to talk to him? Shame, Paris group. Shame.
A little late to the party and I was just thinking about this too. I finished HeartStopper a little over a month ago with my aunt and remembered getting so excited on the notion and conversation of AroAce rep, considering how rare it is and often not the sole focus. Especially after Alice’s IG post about it having and diving into AroAce Rep in S2, only to finish the season and feel…disappointed.
Now I’m biased since I didn’t really overly question my AroAce orientation and was lucky to have friends that didn’t pressure me too much into a relationship and it was more self pressure vs external pressure from others.
Only to now realize that I wanted a Queer Platonic Relationship and honestly thought that was what they were going for with James( I think that’s his name) with Issac! And really explore that line of relationships and feelings!
Now this might still be a conversation and I genuinely hope so for S3. I hope Issac grows to be proud of being AroAce! I hope Queer Platonic Relationships are discussed, and just the amazing variety there is when it comes to being Aromantic-Asexual and the fulfilling life we can and do have with it!
We deserve to feel pride in our identities too as the other characters in the series do and irl in the queer community. 🖤🩶🤍💚 🖤🩶🤍💜✨
In what way is him preferring to read a book over anything else unrealistic?
You are awesome lynn sadly whatever asexual representation mostly isn't done accurate a lot of the media fully understand asexuality so aren' really sure on how to correctly dipict on screen with a lot of channels like yours will promote asexuality love you're channel you are a very intelligent person
It's such a hard sexuality to show because it can look so different to each asexual person so I think that's why I've only really liked Todd from Bojack
@@lynnsaga1397 i fully agree with you todd from bojack is the one of few asexual characters that shows asexuality accurately
@@lynnsaga1397the book Loveless, also written by Alice Oseman, has an aro ace main character and the story shows how important friendship is. I recommend!
I agree with all your points. I have been surprised and disappointed with the very minimal aro or ace rep in the show, especially given its creator.
I do definitely see where you’re coming from and wish we got to see just a little bit more of Issac’s personal thoughts and struggles coming to terms and figuring out the fact he’s aro ace. But it’s definitely still something. And hopefully Isaac’s character will continue to grow and we’ll keep learning more about him
I saw a similar person talk about how they don't like Issac either so that's why i watched this! I hope we see more Issac in S3, like an episode that shows a LOT of him and how he's feeling. i also hope he can talk to James about this (it's always nice to have friends outside your main friend group) and he can come out to the gang! I just really hope heartstopper can redeem themselves with Issac and his aro-ace discovery. I'm AroAce and how I've felt my whole life (No crushes, no sexual or romantic attraction and i never thought about being in a relationship and stuff like that) is how I everyone else felt, but GOD I WAS SO WRONG. So i guess I would want someone to represent an AroAce character like that, they think how they feel is how everyone else feels? I am OBSESSED with Heartstopper and I really agree with this video actually, Subscribed!
I think that Georgia from Loveless and Todd from Bojack horseman are probably the best examples that come to my head when I think about Aro/ace rep. In Loveless the main plot of the story was about the realization and accepting of being aroace, so it was pretty deep and i even felt understood in many ways I haven't before, while with Todd that definitely wasn't the main focus of the story, I think they did a great job as developing it through the whole series! It's not like we got that many examples to compare, but still lol
The author of heartstopper has book with main character who is aroace. But I forgot the name.
Edit: Loveless
YES! It's one of the works that comes up a lot when talking about aroace characters I've just never read it. I know I should lol
I find it really hard to relate to aroace characters in movies and books because while I like to read, like him. I am actually pretty extroverted and like to speak with a lot of friends. It was really hard to figure out I was aroace because I only ever saw a stereotyped version of the sexuality. Since I never saw an Aroace people like me, I assumed I just wasn’t ace because any queer representation of them, that I saw, was a quiet kid. A lot of aroace people are very quiet so this is good representation (I’m not trying to say his rep is bad)
Honestly, I'm glad this video exists. Everyone has been losing their minds about how "good" this representation is, how its groundbreaking, and I just don't see it. I've felt more represented by characters who weren't even written to be aroace
I haven’t watched Heartstopper yet (just read books 1-4 very recently - Isaac does not exist). I’m pretty sure you’re right that Oseman is aro/ace. They wrote another book called Loveless which in many ways is excellent at portraying the struggles of figuring out that you’re aro/ace in a world that places so much importance on romantic and sexual love. But the book also places SO much emphasis on what the aro/ace character’s friends think of it and how they’re impacted by it, to the point where the narrative treats her as being “selfish” for trying to figure herself out instead of prioritizing their feelings and making sure she doesn’t confuse or hurt the people around her. And that’s struck me as strange for a long time.
I think I love him so much because on top of aroace I am also super shy and cute so I relate a lot
In season 1 you can see that he is an observer like most introvert people, so he doesn't speak a lot but when he does he is accurate
And I like that a character can be shy
And for me the season 2 arc was about coming in, and understanding who you are. And that moved me a lot because as you say it was a lonely path for me, and I liked that it was a lonely path for him too, and I think season 3 will be about Isaac coming out !!
6:33 oh my god the celebrity crush thing! As a trans man most of my “celebrity crushes” were just men i wanted to be, but everyone assumes im attracted to them which invalidates both my identities :((
Well, as far as ace rep goes, Isaac is the best we got as far as live action shows in the mainstream media (at least as far as I have seen). The fact that they actually use the words aromantic and asexual is what makes him good rep. Because, as far as I’ve seen, ace characters in other shows are more like an afterthought. They may be officially ace or aro, but nobody would know it unless they looked it up. You wouldn’t even know by just consuming the media. For example, Lilith from the Owl House. She’s canonically aroace, but it’s never really mentioned on screen. If you didn’t already know about aromantism and asexuality, you wouldn’t have a clue that Lilith is aroace.
I like the rep that Isaac provides because it’s actual, real aro ace representation, and it shows the potential struggles that someone who is aroace might go through. Isaac may be a newer, less fleshed out character, but he is solid aroace rep compared to other shows.
i would like to see Loveless or solitare more. Loveless is so nice to describe acearo or in new solitare, the main character (Charlies sister) finally release she is on aro/ace apectrum. BUT i liked the scene, how issac was crying on the balcony. I refered myself to it so much.
OK I found myself disagreeing with some of your points.
I think the whole thing about Isaac being a bookworm ... I know people were like "Nobody walks around with a book like that all the time" and I was like a) I did and b) OMG. Just because he's the first openly aro/ace character in teen lit he has to now carry the weight of all the ace rep?
I did have issues about his friends not running after him. But when everything was fine at the next scene I kept thinking there was a deleted scene I missed. I have a feeling we'll see a lot more in the next season.
2:41 I’m crying Issac isn’t in the novels 💀💀💀
Okay so I've never actually watched the Heartstopper netflix series and I was just like Isaac??? Part of the og group?? WHERE IS ALED?????
I don't like how he reads books the whole time haha! Yes we may read books but not in social situations especially with friends 😅
That scene when he finds out at the museum is beautiful though 😊
The reading a book instead of hanging out with friends at a birthday party is super realistic actually I do that ever year
Hello from after season 3 he does get utalized a lot more
I'm neither ace nor aro, and I was also underwhelmed at how this flavor of queer was(n't) represented.
i am a nerdy loner aro ace 💀so to me it does seem to be realistic, but I think they truly did just lack giving him more lines or more in depth subplot or lore about him, even if he is a subplot in every episode would be fine, but they straight up ignore him and rationalize it as him just being too shy to talk, therefore that's why he doesn't get lines, which is a bs excuse
Thanks for the description mention!!! I’m glad there’s more people that agree that this aroace rep kinda sucks lol
As an aroace person I have to disagree with almost everything you said. While I do believe there is a genuine critique to be made of Isaac in season 1, I have never felt more seen than with his season 2 character. I constantly read or crochet even while hanging out with friends or family because there’s too much empty space where I’m being left out if I don’t. I’ve seen over and over again how aroaces get left out of queer spaces, even if it’s simply because we’re not thought of. Heck the most left out I’ve felt because of being aroace was with a group of three other queer people. I think the ignoring of Isaac’s issues by his friends is intentional writing to show how they just don’t get it and don’t understand how to deal with his struggles because maybe they don’t know what aroace is themselves. As for the comment about aroace being seen as a package deal, I completely disagree. I know of several canonically ace characters, including two other Heartstopper characters (one being the character Isaac replaced from the comics), two bojack horseman characters, a girl in sex education, Alastor from Hazbin Hotel, the main character in a fictional story about school shootings, and several others I’ve seen mentioned in synopses for books I haven’t read. However, I only know one other canonically aroace character, and that’s Georgia and likely her cousin from Loveless, a book that was also written by Alice Oseman. While I’ve seen crappy queer-coding, headcanons, and heavy suggestions of aromanticism with characters such as the aforementioned Alastor along with Lilith from TOH, these two Alice Oseman characters are the only aroace representation I’m actively aware of in fictional media, despite the dozen or so exclusively ace characters I’ve found.
Also I find it quite contradictory that you were mostly upset about how his character was ignored, but said that the only good part of his representation was the realistic-ness of him constantly being ignored
(Also just thought I should note that this is meant as genuine criticism, not a hate comment. If it comes across that way you can just delete this, as it genuinely wasn’t my intention. I wasn’t gonna comment but this was genuinely bugging me because of how incredibly represented Isaac’s season 2 character made me feel. I couldn’t sleep without getting this off my chest)
Also also I don’t know the package deal thing might’ve just been in a comment sorry
i agree 100% ,i hope he gets more to do in season 3
sorry but, it’s because he’s a side character. not bc he’s ace
AroAce coded characters and AroAce implied characters > Issac
Even Peridot turns out to be a better representative of AroAce (thanks to Sugar's interview from 2023 and her fusion book from 2017, since Sugar did not confirm the same statements that Maya said in 2020; because Petersen told us that she doesn't have the ultimate autority) or any current or past character being Aroace turns out to be better than Issac, because Alice should stop bragging about "Big Ace plans" because it makes it clear that she doesn't care about the Aspec community.
We are a spectrum, we have experiences, we have preferences and above all we have a totally unique life with our orientations, also we can also be Aro, Ace, AroAce, AroAllo, AceAllo and any Aspec identity; since there are many of our identities that can be related and sometimes not but we are not a stereotypical monolith like Isaac.
Creating an AroAce character is much more than just being a representative of their orientations, an AroAce character can show us their experiences, their discovery even if it is not getting them into relationships, but you cannot ignore self-discovery and personality in their daily life and their personal struggles both related to their orientations and the non-AroAce struggles, which that Alice forgot and just limited herself to creating a very vague "I like books" personality with a very rude conclusion that ruins the few AroAce hits and moments the character had.
Yeah Isaac also felt kinda flat to me, but luckly there's more rep on more of Alice's works, like Charlie's sister Tori who's also aroace and you have a whole book (Solitaire) from her perspective, and also another of Alice's books who's main character is also aroace Loveless
as a greysexual aromantic with plenty of personal issues around loneliness and alienation, it really just reinforces the feeling that that part of my identity doesn't matter and just exacerbates those feelings so much. i've always tried to feel sexual and romantic attraction but it doesn't work the way society wants me too. it's so dehumanising. also add neurodivergence and it just feels...uggggh.
I’ve tried to create my own aro/ace character recently, who is also non-binary & whose personality is the flamboyant stereotype usually given to gay men, which highlights how loyal they are to their friends.
I don’t know if this counts as a subversion, but my intention is to avoid the robotic stereotype usually given to asexual characters.
Sorry if my English is bad, I'm Brazilian, but Isaac don't exist in the comic, instead has aled, what is demisexual, but alice oseman has a book about a aroace person (loveless)
Isaac is very heavily similar to the author Alice Oseman's experience as a teenager. They are aroace and were very quiet in amongst their friendship group, they have said in interviews.
Isaac is very included in the friendship group in the capacity which he wishes. He is observant and has some great lines but prefers to be quiet.
He seems to be incredibly comfortable in his friendship group, especially in season 1. All he wants to do is hang out with his friends and nothing more should be expected from him.
Being introverted or even quiet in a busy loud friendship group is common and should be represented. His aroace identity is being slowly realised through the show in the same way that the author themselves took a while to understand their aroaceness. Alice being critiqued about how they are showing aroace identity through their two characters Isaac and Tori is so odd to me. Surely their experience deserves to be represented in characters they themselves have developed in a show they've written and created.
I think Isaac is a specific type of character and is fully realised as we get to know him or he lets the audience get to know him. I found myself drawn to him in every scene because he says so much with his reactions and signals so much with the book he's engrossed in. When he speaks he is precise and well considered and bares being listened to because he is always right on point.
I watched season one of this show last year I think because I had heard people say how great it was and my friend really likes it, but part way through just thought "I'll finish it but boy I am way too aro for this". I didn't watch s2 when it came out and after hearing about this subject from you and some friends who felt similarly as you I'm totally fine with not seeing it
You have to wait for the next season. It’s supposed to tie Tori and Issac’s stories up for that representation.
I kind of agree with you with the fact that any of his friends cared about what was happening to him but I dont know why, I actually like that because it shows you how bad is Isaac feeling in that moment
Promises "big ace things" for the season and delivers... a bog-standard Ace 101 storyline. Right down to the token ace character evaporating from the narrative afterwards. And people wonder why I'm so jaded every time someone announces that they're including an ace character.
I know that I am well out of Oseman's target audience, but this is the second time they've done this exact story, they're not the first in a YA series to use these exact beats, and they weren't the last. This can't be healthy for both young aspecs, who are told that all that they can be is their coming-out & after that, they'd best make themselves small, and for non-aspec peers, who would probably reinforce these attitudes & have the impression that aspec stories are that limited & uninteresting. I wish desperately that we had more "own voices" creators than one that traffics in stereotypes & cliches.
What about Tori (Charlie's sister) ?
I agree, although at least it was better than the representation in sex education. Still, my favourite ace representation on a teen show is Cash in the heartbreak high reboot.
11 months late but :3,
What i will say is im pretty sure loveless, a book by alice, has really good rep, ot even made me realize...wait, i actually havent had a crush on someone, i realized most feelings i had any "crushes" (yes all three in my bloody school lifel) were purely platonic , and the book help me realize that (we ignore how i then thought i was lesbian.. delusional ik 😔)
So i do need to read the book again, but from what i remember, kts has good rep, asexual people, aromamtic people (the book even goes into talking how you can be ace without being aro)
But i do recommend it :3
check out the series Koisenu Futari - it has been the most direct aroace rep I have seen so far
I have been a fan & reader of heartstopper along w other Alice Oseman works since 2018, & the characterization of Isaac is veryyyyyyy underwhelming to me, especially in comparison to basically every other one if Oseman’s characters. It is hard for me to be critical of this representation, as I know that Oseman is capable of so much better (ESPECIALLY in regards to aroace characters; I am aroace myself) , but yeah… this rep kinda sucks
Im aroace i felt kinda the same i felt that it was handled badly
It was supposed to be Aled, whose amazing acespec rep 😭
I loved the art scene as well!❤ Every asexual spectrum on a screen for me is already great. Never seen anything on the topic, tips are welcome btw. Opinions can vary, i'm demi and might feel more comfi with the scenes. Do i want more, yes absolutely🎉🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️🥳
I haven’t watched the show or read it but i’d leave them and find new friends honestly, like why not hang out with the other aroace guy 😂
I actually really hate the author of Heartstopper, which is why I didn’t want to watch it at all initially. Because Alice Oseman wrote a book called Loveless about an aroace character’s discovery and coming out journey and it wasn’t bad but there was another character there, Sunil, who was kinda the queer mentor figure for the main character, and Sunil is nonbinary and supposedly uses he/they pronouns, which is great, right? Because we don’t get enough representation as is and I’ve never seen a character canonically use multiple pronouns in a book or movie before, so that these pronouns are explicitly stated to be the pronouns they use is incredible. Right? Nope!
Because even though it is stated multiple times throughout the book that Sunil uses he/they pronouns, THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE BOOK THE AUTHOR & CHARACTERS ONLY USE HE/HIM PRONOUNS FOR HIM!
That makes me so angry, you’d think if you write a book and make a character use he/they pronouns you’d put some fucking research into what that means and how to use those pronouns. But Oseman just doesn’t do that at all, everyone only ever uses he/him pronouns and it’s never addressed! And NOBODY IS TALKING ABOUT THIS! WHY!?
Alice probably didn't mean to do that, they use she/they pronouns
@@JustAHarmlessSoph Alice Oseman uses she/they pronouns? I didn’t know that, where do you know that from?
@@morganmeadowes6861 There is this interview where the entire cast reacts to tumbler comments, and they all day their pronouns ( I'll try and find it)
@@morganmeadowes6861 ruclips.net/video/5ZQ_WsX6om0/видео.htmlsi=drb4vLW8oiVTOW7Bb around 5
i love that she is talking about issac being aro ace while in the books issacs counterpart alled is demisexual so there is nothing in the books except tori coming out as assexual in the 5 book sorry for spoilers
I def agree omg
First aro ace character I see on a show and he is boring
Somehow Issac feels like a victory & a curse in terms of aro/ace rep as far as this video is concerned.
Then again, it was mainly Nick & Charlie who got the focus in the webcomics/graphic novels, which is why I’ve praised the show for further fleshing out their friends (who appeared in the comics).