Lithuania: The Wolf and the Cross - with Fr. Andrew Damick & Richard Rohlin
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- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2024
- This is a discussion I had with Fr. Andrew Damick and Richard Rohlin from Ancient Faith Ministries about an Orthodox pilgrimage they made to Lithuania. They have an upcoming documentary and a podcast called The Wolf and the Cross about what they learned about Orthodoxy in Lithuania.
- The Wolf and the Cross podcast:
Episode 1: The Wolf: Lithuania Before the Cross: www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts...
Timestamps:
00:00:00 - Coming next...
00:00:57 - Intro music
00:01:23 - Start
00:02:13 - The reasons for the pilgrimage
00:08:04 - Greeting
00:13:17 - Lithuania in the Universal History
00:24:11 - Our Lady of the Gate of Dawn Icon
00:29:11 - How St. Seraphim of Sarov obtained the icon
00:32:07 - Neopaganism in Lithuania
00:41:34 - Cemeteries
00:48:15 - What do you hope to accomplish?
00:51:08 - The Hill of Crosses
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My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson.
Thanks so much for having us on, Jonathan!
Great convo. Looking forward to the documentary.
I'm from LT and it's rare to see people so deeply interested in this country, perhaps from the best prespective. Thank you. I hope to see the documentary.
I've had the privilege of visiting Lithuania. Beautiful country and generous people.
Amazing. I am lithuanian and it was extemely interesting to listen. Now I will be listening lithuanian storys in english😂 great job
I was baptised by a Lithuanian priest in Argentina, and ours was a "Lithuanian" parish until the last wave of immigrants were assimilated into the Argentinian culture. But my heart has always been tied to Lithuania in this spiritual way, even though my genes are about 99% Italian :)
WOW, as your follower, a Lithuanian follower I cannot wait to see this. How exiting.
Lithuanian here! Thanks for the video!❤
Awesome to learn about this "invisible presence" in Western culture. Now we're ready to hear about the Book of Enoch and Beowulf!
I’ve recently been deep diving into Lithuanian history and this was very helpful, thanks all.
Thank you so much for talking so beautifully about my country
This was fascinating. Please consider this as an extensive project. Ireland, Spain, France, Italy, England, etc.. all posses a rich Orthodox history. There is so much potential to bring to light to the pre-schism West.
Lithuania is just the first stop!
These countries are historically Catholic, so is Lithuania. Trying to rewrite history is anti-intellectual
Phenomenal. Thanks to all 3 of you for this!!!
I am 1/4 each Lithuanian, Slovak, Scottish & Irish. My Lithuanian roots (my maternal grandmother’s side) follow Fr Andrew’s nearly identically - great grandparents arrived in the US (central PA in our case). We were able to hang on to them a little bit longer; my mother was somewhat able to read, but not speak or write Lithuanian and continued to correspond with our Lithuanian family still mostly in country until she reposed last summer. I still have their email addresses on her phone, though. Looks like I also have some reconnecting to do!!!
Interestingly, I’m sure for a variety of both religious and logistical reasons, my family (including my wife’s totally Protestant evangelist side) has always celebrated a major Christmas meal on the 24th.
And this thought strikes me while writing this: my Slovak grandfather and Lithuanian grandmother were both fluent in 9 languages despite the fact that neither of them made it past the second grade. Meanwhile my “highly educated” self is only fluent in 2 and varyingly conversant in 3 more. LXX Greek is next on my list & looks like Lithuanian is now 2nd!!!
This was such a pleasant surprise, thank you. Very excited to watch the documentary.
After watching this, I went and listened to the podcast. What a wonderful experience. I, too, was brought to tears at the end with the story of the Martyrs. Thank you, for your care and dedication in bringing this story, to us all. Well done.
Fascinating. Excited to watch this documentary. I was swept up in a pilgrimage in Mexico, and it changed my life. Intriguing to hear similar experiences of ad-mixture of other religions and pagan spirituality in Lithuania and Latin America.
I just listened to the doc on podcast yesterday. What a beautiful testimony you have in Lithuania!
And the name for podcast is just amazing. It sounds great
I am a practicing Roman Catholic, Puerto Rican half Ecuadorian. We also celebrate the Holy Supper and I had know idea why until now.
I enjoy Eastern Orthodox talks and biblical studies, but Our Lady of Guadalupe from the Roman Catholic church converted the America's, and she also had the moon under her feet and crowned with thorns.
I wonder how the universal history relates to the people of the America's.
I'm on that quest too! GL
Thank you. ❤❤❤ Love this so much.
I can’t wait to see your trip!
Garbe Jezui Kristui (glory to Jesus Christ) i am Lithuanian living abroad. Interesting to see how others see our homeland.
In Brazil we also have the custom of having a family meal on Christmas eve, and I would say that is the case for many people who are not practising Christians, just nominally so from being baptized Catholics. For instance my family does this but no one except me I think would call themselves a Christian. I think it is a vestige of when Catholicism was really ingrained in people's lives in the past in this country.
The Christmas Eve big family dinner is also done in other countries (Catholic) like Spain. While we also celebrate the 25th, Christmas Eve is kind of a big deal.
Loved this! ❤💙
Lithuanian here. It's fascinating to see people so interested in our history and culture. I guess we are used to see ourselves as irrelevant, sadly.
By the way, I believe there was some misinformation about our Neopagans. I know many of them myself, have been in their festivals and such. There is actually no claim that Baltic paganism was the same or very similar to Hinduism. Many Pagan traditions here survived up until 18th century and were well documented, especially by catholic priests, as they described the local customs that needed to be eradicated. Some of those traditions are quite alive even today, for example Užgavėnės festival, which is somewhat similar to halloween, at least outwardly, as people get dressed in costumes and kids go around asking for treats. It's been attached to a Christian calendar at some point and happens a day before Ash Wednesday. Same story with the day of the dead - it's a Pagan festival called Vėlinės attached to a Christian holiday. In some villages people are still making bonfires in graveyards on that day. I believe it is relevant to acknowledge this while speaking of our local forms of Christianity as it is quite heavily influenced by Pagan traditions.
My paternal grandfather was Polish, and when I was a kid we used to have a celebration on Christmas Eve where we'd have of meal where the main dish was fish. I knew it was a Polish tradition but I didn't know it was called Holy Supper.
In Polish it's called Wigilia Bożego Narodzenia (or usually just Wigilia for short).
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wigilia
That's also an italian thing so it probably stems from Rome.
@@frandrewstephendamick oh ok yeah that rings a bell. It's been an interesting time recently for thinking about my ancestors, as my Dad passed on the family Bible to me (he's an atheist so he doesn't have a use for it). It's a huge thing with big brass clasps and both black-and-white and full-colour image plates. It originally belonged to my father's mother's mother's parents, who were Anglicans. It was given to them as a wedding gift from what I understand. It's been strange how becoming Orthodox has given me a stronger connection to my ancestors - in all likelihood none of them have been Orthodox since the Great Schism. But since beginning this journey, I have found time and time again that it has brought me closer to my forefathers in sometimes quite strange ways.
@@lordofhostsappreciator3075 Many Christian cultures have Christmas Eve celebrations. I know a priest of Sicilian background who tells me of the "Seven Fishes of Christmas," for instance. What makes the tradition of the lands of the former P-LC different is not just the timing of the meal but also that there are usually 12 dishes of fasting food, a ritual of beginning at the sight of the first star, and some other elements.
@@joer9156 Without affirming everything about their religious practices, I think we can honor our ancestors inasmuch as they are not only family but in all the ways that they were faithful to God as they knew how.
Slava Isusu Khrystu, with the response Slava na Viky is still the standard way to greet others in Western Ukraine, especially in the countryside.
Carpatho-Rusyns greet each other like that.
They're in a few different countries though, not just Ukraine.
I was raised Catholic in France and we celebrated Christmas on the 24th, we would have the Christmas meal in the evening and go to midnight mass afterwards. My grandmother was from Alsace on the French-German border. Maybe that's why.
Thanks
Thank you, I recently learned of my Ruthenian ancestry. My understanding is they were orthodox, but Roman Catholic dominated the the midwest, so they did not practice. But my grandfather always had fish on Friday. This is very interesting to me.
Catholics in Latin America also celebrate Christmas Eve dinner over Christmas Day. Pretty interesting!
My great grandparents also,I’m born in Scranton Pa
Hey, a fellow Scrantonian
Lots of Lithuanians in the Scranton area! There are even dedicated Lithuanian cemeteries there, though they are not really like the ones in Lithuania.
Just like Biden!
Same in the Czech Republic, my wife insists on celebrating Christmas on the 24th, and to some extent, Christmas Eve is more relevant to Spanish Catholics as well. We would not say Christmas is the 24, but the celebration is on the 24 up to midnight.
Very interesting video. I went to school with a few children whose parents were from Lithuania, but I know next to nothing about the land or the people.
It's really interesting for someone with depth to explore my homeland, but it's quite disappointing to see Johnathan so close minded about what Lithuania has kept alive in their spiritual and domestic lives throughout the ages.
We celebrate Christmas on Christmas Eve in Sweden too and I’m pretty sure it’s the same in most of the Scandinavian countries.
34:50 One should not overlook that in the construction of a national sentiment in Lithuania, the opposition of the pagan Dukes to the Teutonic Order was very important. That's why national symbols very easily include pagan imagery, although the country is eminently Catholic.
38:00 Dunes in Lithuania are UNESCO protected.
40:00 Vikings used to trade with Baltics back in days and live there, it was one of their first spots to come hence runes and norsk influence across baltics (lithuania, latvia).
my wife went to catholic school in LA and when I showed her lithuania she knew quite a bit (what surprised me), she knew the hill of crosses.
Hymn at 9 minutes fron the end ? beautiful, where can we find this
Ah reformation day parties. I don't miss those at all.
Hey, I am recently reading alot about Genesis and I am looking for a good explenation about the raven and the dove of Noah gen8:7. I thought that you might know more about what this part of the story exactly means.
Name this episode 'Lord Of Universal Spirits'
Oho, laba diena visiems 😅
Any Orthodox Christian Lithuanians here? :)
Don't you love how a French, an English and a Liuthvanian are all Orthodox. You can see in real time that there is neither Jew nor Gentile.
Jan Hus was not Hungarian,he was Czech
I dont believe Slovakia ever was in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth (but it was a part of Poland for a short while), however there are a lot of rusyn (ruthenians) there.
Also Slovakia does have some interesting early christian history with the Orthodox cCurch, with saints Cyril and Methodius arriving there (Great Moravia back then), however the franks did a big push after that and the country ended up Roman Catholic.
Spiš, which is in Slovakia, was part of the P-LC. Map here: upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cc/Polish-Lithuanian_Commonwealth_in_1619.PNG
@@frandrewstephendamick Whelp, I didn't know that. From the treaty of Lubowla I see. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Lubowla
I'll surrender some of my slovak points for that!
Yes, but Spiš is a relatively small chunk of Slovakia.
Also Hus was Czech, in Bohemia, not Hungarian.
@@frandrewstephendamick That is amazing! That's the part of Slovakia my family is from. They also married into a Slovakized German family. Those Germans really got around! 😅
Unfortunately my family also lost their culture, religion and language completely in one generation in America.
@@frandrewstephendamick It is important to note that it was only a de Facto part of the plc As a part of a Mortgage deal between Poland and Hungary so It was de jure part of hungary
Jan Hus was Czech!
All Souls Day in Baltic catholic tradition corresponds to Baltic pagan time of the dead.
Pagan Baltic people used the day and time of the dead to put food out for spirits that come out in that day. Spirits are said to be more visible during that time. (veļu laiks - in Latvian) Lithuanians did similar.
According to someone like Randal Carlson the time of the dead is vague, old, worldwide echoes of memorial for those who died in the great flood. Halloween for those westerners.
I see why this antediluvian tie might have needed to be baptised into day of all souls.
And feels strange to hear all those Baltic catholic traditions described as that exotic. Americans have loan on their graveyards. That is so protestant.
I can't wait for the return of the Uniates, do I just get to go back to being a Roman Catholic and to my old Church? Or is there going to be some sort of weird Proto-American Uniate Church period that OCA Churches go through first before we officially go back to the Holy See? I mean we already got the outer dressings down and my roots are still here (I don't even have to go searching through European history to spiritually attach myself to Catholic culture, I was a cradle! I know, lucky me!) so I'd say we just skip the awkward flirting period and just do this re-marriage already.
I'm having a hard time with the proposal that a Uniate church has to do with the Orthodox roots in America. I'd rather give credit to our growing number of Saints.
It's both, of course. Historically, much of the OCA and the ACROD have roots in the Unia.
@@frandrewstephendamick Would you please explain this further, and point out some reading on the subject? What is the ACROD and why would a Uniate Church have something to do with Orthodoxy, What am I missing here?
Other than the fact that Uniates are (in gently chiding tone) papists larping as Orthodox.
@@paulr5246 St. Alexis Toth (formerly a Ruthenian Catholic priest) led a large number of formerly Unia parishes into the US archdiocese of the Russian Orthodox Church in the late 19th and early 20th c. These became much of the OCA, especially in the northeast US, and some ended up in the ROCOR -- this was the first major presence of Orthodox parishes on the east coast (some of course were already there). Starting in 1938, a second wave of former Unia parishes in the US joined the Orthodox Church and became the American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese (ACROD), which belongs to the Ecumenical Patriarchate. Many older parishes of Slavic tradition especially in Pennsylvania have these historical roots, though they are all over the US.
Some of the people who made this journey in the US went back home to the Carpathian mountains and led some of the Ruthenian Catholics there into the Orthodox Church, as well. Elsewhere in Eastern Europe, other groups of these people came into the Orthodox Church, though in many cases it was forcible in places like Poland, Lithuania, and Ukraine, because of Russian imperial policy.
@@frandrewstephendamick Thankyou very much for your timely and abundantly informative response Fr. It is certainly food for thanksgiving and further inquiry.
Litchihuahua as we say around these parts
I'm at 42min mark and it was a nice listen until you started speaking about paganism. It's clear that you're looking into it and participants of the religion with a attitude of ridicule. I highly suggest dropping it. You admit that Lithuania was religious discovery for you and it is not represented properly in orthodox history given the impact it had on Christian religions. Same applies for paganism, Lithuania was the last pagan nation in that region, yes there were nomads in Estonia and Finland, but it's not the same as nation. That's important for many lithuanians, plus it was a pagan Lithuania that accepted all fates Jews , Christians, Muslims and pagans. That tradition still stands in new wave of paganism, that is not to entrenched on other believes.
As for runes I don't know which of them are exactly on the sun dial, but there are archeological examples of runes on stones in Lithuania.
Furthermore your claim on paganism not having any written works to be recreated in today's world is straight up lie. It is Christian monks that made tons and tons of various writing on various pagan traditions including Lithuania although it's a rather small chapter in pagan history.
I'm not pagan and I won't state my religion because we should be respectful for each other regardless of religion. As I said I really liked listening to you up until your condemning regards towards paganism.
And just to iterate one more time importance of paganism in Lithuanian history. It is hard to tell which is larger celebration in Lithuania christmas or midsummer (I think in English) Joninės in Lithuania after saint Jon (I think) and yet it's completely pagan festival in tradition. Nobody calls it saint Jon's in Lithuania it's a Jonas day and if you're Jonas or Janina (female) in some work places they give you that day off.
EDIT : one more important thing, you said hill of crosses is a Christian fight against evil atheist Soviet oppression. Yes soviets were evil and yes they propagated atheism but Lithuanians of all religions have no problem with atheists nor do the atheists with religious people. It is all in respecting each other's rights. So you clearly put atheism on the same level with soviets which is not true. It was a resistance form against soviets but beleivet or not back then and now even eithist places crosses on the hill. It's part of Lithuanian history and we fight alongside each other regardless of religious believes.
I'm not atheist either for clarification.
Not fair of these guys to make fun of beautiful indigenous pagan religions, practicing things native to their heritage and homeland.
every day I am surprised to hear people praising Lithuanians. Motherland is beautiful, language and culture is only beautiful of old, what it is now is a disappointment...
The immediate urge all 3 had to denigrate Lithuanian neo-paganism + Hinduism, which actually is substantive given the proto Indo-European connection, juxtaposed with the easy way they accept the 'lore' around St. Seraphim's icon. Y'all dismissing real truths and venerating children's tales.