How is limited atonement true when Scripture teaches that Christ died for the whole world?
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- Опубликовано: 14 окт 2024
- Did Christ die for every individual in the world without exception? From one of our Ask Ligonier events, John MacArthur discusses the extent of the atonement revealed in Scripture. Ask your biblical and theological questions live online at ask.ligonier.org/
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“and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.”
1 John 2:2
This shoots down limited atonement.
really???? who is John speaking to? i’ll wait.
@@bry440 “My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;”
1 John 2:1 NASB1995
He’s writing to the elect
@@bry440 Yeah, really. Who is John speaking to?? Whether John were speaking to every saved person in the world or just Bozo the Clown himself, how would that make "not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.” turn into "for ours only, and NOT for those of the whole world.”??? Plain clear direct statements of scripture only get complicated when you don't like to accept what plain clear direct statements of scripture state.
@@missiletoad7015 John 10:11
@@missiletoad7015the whole world represents Jews and Gentiles, but only a remnant of them will be saved and only a remnant will be in the faith, right? John 10:11, Jesus died for His beloved sheep only, not for anyone else. If He did die for anyone else, it’s in vain. Atonement is limited to those sheep that come out of the world, because we can only imagine a remnant of this world will be saved due to unfaithfulness being in the world, correct? Not only this, but we can know who John is writing to due to the historical context. John is writing to the Jew, who a lot of them, in the early church, had wanted to believe that only Jews were the ones to be saved, but John simply sort of repeats that both Jews and Gentiles are saved because of the propitiation. The whole world, in almost every context of scripture, basically refers to both Jews and Gentiles. God bless.
God died for the world but there will be many who won’t receive him.
The banquet feast parable is perfect for this.
The banquet feast has also the meaning of the two covenants. The Jews are invited, but are too busy to come. The others are unworthy, but forced in. That would be the Gentiles. The one without the wedding garment is a false believer of some kind, someone not washed in the blood, not clothed in righteousness. But there's always levels and lots of meaning in the parables.
@@duncescotus2342
Concur
@@johnle231 Thanks, brother. I don't get that much on RUclips!
"Many are called but few are chosen."
"Many are called but few are chosen."
It is terribly annoying when preachers say, "It is either this, or it is that. And we know it can't be that." -- when they know full well that there are other views which endeavor to account for the totality of Scripture.
Rightly said. Calvinist also like to say if your not Calvinist you have to be Arminian. You must be A or B… while totally ignoring C
Can you tell me what's the C that you guys are talking about?
@@EsBee49 "C" is a more nuanced position. People can hold positions that are not Arminian but are not what is called 5 point Calvinism. For example, some Calvinsists require that you accept Limited Atonement (--- that Christ died only for the elect). You can reject that idea, and still not be in any sense an Arminian.
@@rdrift1879but he said He laid down His life for His sheep. And He says He does not pray for the world, but those whom the Father gave Him. And all that the Father gave Him WILL come to Him.
@@ClaytonClark-z3s Yes, He said that. But that is not all that Scripture says. What you are saying here is a good example of not looking at the totality of Scripture on a given topic, but carefully picking only Scriptures to support your narrow view.
“Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all everywhere should repent, because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead.”
Calvinism is garbage 🗑
Quote reference? Thks
For the works of the law for no flesh shall be justified
@@hbrettler8523 Acts 17:30-31 - This is part of Paul's speech in Athens.
This is what confuses me, everyone who affirms limited atonement ignores such verses. Titus 2:11 as well as says Gods Grace brings salvation to all people. 2 Peter 3:9 God wants all to come to repentance.... Not some..... ALL
"For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe."
👉 1 Timothy 4:10
1) All People.
2) Especially those who believe.
Thank you for citing Scripture. Overwhelmingly most of the comments cite no Scripture.
Amen! Jesus Christ died for all.
@@Fehrfamilyhomesteadif he died for all, his atonement was ineffective because many are in hell.
@jethroscooter7214 He died for everyone, but only those who trust in Jesus and believe that he died was buried and resurrected, will have eternal life. So those who reject Jesus will perish.
@@Fehrfamilyhomesteadhe didn’t die for all. God chose people before the formation of the earth. Jesus atonement had the power to save all. The father chose those with foreknowledge to give faith in order that Jesus would atone for their sins. All who come to him do by faith which is given. If Jesus died for all then why do we have hell? Your point of view says Jesus died to potentially save everyone. In fact he died for a finite number of people that are actually saved no choice whatsoever. Gods plan will be executed no matter what. Sinners don’t have the control of whom is in the kingdom of heaven.
They say believe like a Calvinist and preach like an arminian
hahahai like this
so they're lying? this suggests a spirit at work within them, and it ain't the Holy Spirit
not a good sign for their own salvation
It's so true.
I believe the same way I preach. Imagine that! Calvinism is not the Gospel.
@@elijahmorris9864 Calvinism is Biblical Christianity. Anyone who know scripture knows that n can't deny it.
Choosen before the foundation of the World = Limited
This is Calvinist circular logic because they deny God allows man a choice to accept or deny the Gospel. Calvinist often use words like “obvious” and “we know that to be true”. Yet they couch it all under the presupposition that Calvinism is true. We don’t all believe in limited atonement so he re-defines it to say we do. God made salvation available to all people and there is no contradiction there unless you believe people have no choice, no libertarian free will.
They ignore the fact that not one Christian author in the entire world taught their doctrine until the 5th century. Was the entire church wrong for 400 years?
When Paul addressed the men of Athens he said “ God has commanded ALL men EVERYWHERE to repent”. Yet by Calvinist doctrine God is commanding them to do something He then does not allow most of them to even have the ability to do.
I respect John MacArthur but the web of inconsistency, the twisting of clear and plain Scripture and the redefinition of words required by Calvinist is astounding. So much more could be said such as the difference between corporate election and individual election etc.. but a RUclips comment section isn’t the place for it. It is a sad day that so many good Christians believe most of the world doesn’t even have an option to be saved.
I always understood it to be that Christ did die for everyone so that everyone may have the offer of salvation. It is up to us, however, to accept the offer or not. Essentially, everyone now has the opportunity to be saved by the power of the cross, but not everyone will take the offer. That’s how I understood it, at least. I’m completely open to hearing other people’s thoughts on this issue.
I will try to put it into simple terms. I personally accepted Jesus, (of the Bible) as my personal Savior. I'm saved / born-again. Sealed in the Holy Spirit. Jesus Christ's finished work on the cross paid for all of my sin, past present and future.
Jesus also died for and paid for the sins of someone who rejects the great gift of salvation. They look at the Gospel and say they don't need it and they can earn their own way to heaven, etc. At the great white throne judgement, such a person will know fully and understand that they rejected the One and Only King of kings who died or them. They rejected Jesus' free gift while believers accepted it. And it's all possible only because He first loved us.
Yes Jesus died for our sins, but he olso stabllish a covenant with his blood for man to take away their sins, witch means it's not done, but we have to do it ourselves.. Didn't he said if you don't eat the body and blood of Christ you will not enter heaven... Didn't he told his Apóstolos go and baptize all nations, and the sins you forgive will be forgiven the one's you retain shall be retained. The Apóstolos are the new priests for the new Covenant.. The first covenant was started with 12 priests and later God had 70 more Disciples, and the second covenant he started with 12 Apóstolos and later had 70 more Disciples.. The 12 Apóstolos where the new priests for the new Covenant.. According to our blessed Mother because of the. mistake that people are making. thinking that they are already saved just by accepting the Lord...without INTERING his covenant by baptism... And living according to what he stabllish....this is a false Gospel that is going around the world...because of this the world is going to be completely mad, as man don't think they. Need to take away their sins.... We now have a world full of sin that needs to be brought down.....
@@MariaMartins-vc9yh Baptism does not save anybody. Only the blood of Christ.
But if Jesus did pay the debt for everyone’s sins, then why would those who don’t accept him still go to hell? I thought people go to hell because they turned down Christ’s offer of salvation, and so they have to pay the debt of sin on their own by spending eternity in hell?
@@wes9825 Yes exactly! Jesus' finished work on the cross already paid for the sins OF THE ENTIRE WORLD, past present and future! But those who are so proud and REJECT this free gift, end up paying for their own sins. For example I eat a million dollar meal in the world's most expensive restaurant, but the owner of the restaurant already PAID MY BILL. And when I go to pay I'm told that the bill has already been paid by the boss himself. But I refuse his gift, pull out my 20 dollar bill and come up short and out of pride I reject the free gift that was given to me and NOW by rejecting so great a gift, I end up washing dishes in the restaurant for 20 years.
Your statement is simple to understand, just lime God intended.
He is necessarily tying limited atonement to irresistible grace. If you say people don't have to accept the gift of salvation, it falls apart.
And hell would exist regardless of limited atonement, because of the devil and his demons.
The problem with your statement is that you think it is necessary for God to treat humans as robots when he gives us grace. When in fact the bible speaks both of Gods grace and our will.
Don't turn the ATONEMENT Of CHRIST into a political debate.
I think this doesn't accurately describe what someone like me currently believes (not limited atonement). I currently believe that Christ died for all sinners, those who would believe and those who wouldn't, (1 John 2:2) meaning that the *application* of the atonement upon someone is limited to those who would believe, but the opportunity for the atonement to be applied to someone is not limited.
So...... he only atoned for the sins of believers, no matter how you frame it. We all agree that all who call upon the name of the Lord will be saved.
@@stevehardwick1578 I agree, but it is inaccurate to preach, as some do, that Jesus' death was only for those who would come to saving faith, as 2 Peter 2 tells us that Jesus bought the false teachers mentioned in that passage.
I have heard two types of preaching on limited atonement. That Jesus' death was only for the elect, in contrast with Jesus' death being for everyone but His blood is only applied to those who believe. I believe the latter is the Biblical and correct way scripture preaches the death of Christ.
@@peytonsingh1038 The result is the same.
@@stevehardwick1578 Thank you for your comments, Steve. I very much agree, but my concern isn't just the result of preaching the Word, but also preaching the Word faithfully. I would hope the same would be true for you and our brothers and sisters in Christ around the world as well.
Sound doctrine is what we should be holding fast to. God bless!
That is because you actually believe in the Bible. Calvinism rejects the Gospel and relies on man made unbiblical philosophies.
I partially agree with what MacArthur has said: the atonement is limited in extent (Calvinist perspective) or effect (Arminian perspective). I believe the Hebrews 10 "there no longer remains a sacrifice" is a crushing argument against the Calvinist view. The apostates in view in that verse clearly had (pre apostasy) a sacrifice they could avail themselves to.
Personally I believe the author is referring to how, if the Jews apostatize and return to Judaism, there is no longer a sacrifice that they can rely on since the OT sacrifices were only types and shadows.
I think the key word in Hebrews 10:26 is "willfully" or "deliberately." In Romans 7:14-25 Paul writes about how he still sins and how we are still bound by sinful flesh. We will still sin unwillingly. willful sinning is the sign of a dead man who was never brought to life which 1 John 2:19 explains, "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us." I think those who fall under the category of, "Apostate" were never true brothers and sisters.
I think there's a difference between limited atonement and limited application of the atonement (the latter being salvation for those who repent and receive the grace). Pastor Macarthur, a great teacher and brother, is, I understand, fusing these two distinct points as they were one and the same. So the argument, biblically speaking, is for unlimited/universal atonement but limited salvation, which is why there is hell, just like Pastor Macarthur pointed out.
So are you prepared to share which, if,any of the two (limited atonement and limited application of atonement) is Biblical?
The atonement for sins against God is universal.
Jesus mentions one exception.
Mark. 3:28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme
:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
Hebr. 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
@@suaptoest CHRIST has atoned for them as well but because they've blaspheme THE HOLY SPIRIT they can't recieve the atonement that has been made .
@@Consplunkable full atonement is biblical my friend . One can only recieve salvation from the atonement if they believe . The free gift is being offered to all who believe because all have been atoned for .
@@cecilspurlockjr.9421 According to the Bible, Jesus atoned for the sins of all mankind against God at his death. And at the same time began the New Covenant where it is no longer possible to break against God, for transgressions are now offenses against the New Covenant in which Jesus himself is the head instead of God. Thus, Jesus ushered in a new era in which all power belongs to Jesus, as he himself says.
The churches omit this teaching altogether.
Many sects even teach completely wrong about reconciliation.
Free will or sovreign election, cant it be both? I dont know but one thing I do know, I once was blind but now I see.
@KTTGHMTJWYCBLAC John 3:16-21... Did the light come to a select few, or to the world?
At least you ask an honest question. In fact your question is better than the Calvinist answer. Chosen But Free, is a book by Norman Giesler that attempts to answer that.
@Scribeintheink Right, which is the strong delusion (SYNERGISM) spoken of in 2 Thessalonians 10-15. "And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
Limited atonement correctly recognizes that Christ’s death was of infinite value and lacking in nothing. In fact, it is of such value that, had God so willed, Christ’s death could have saved every member of the human race. Christ would not have had to suffer any more or do anything different to save every human who ever lived than He did in securing the salvation of the elect. But that was not God’s purpose in sending Christ to the cross. God’s purpose in the atonement was that Jesus would secure forever the salvation of those the Father had given to Him (Hebrews 7:25). Therefore, while Christ’s atonement was limited in its intent or purpose, it was unlimited in its power.
This was said really well. Thank you
And how is it than that the Father calls every single human to repentance?
Knocks on every humans heart?
Pharao,...after knocking three times, He lets the pharaos will be done.
@ well I guess scripture is clear on that.
I am pretty shure that determined does not mean decided.
Great comment.
That sounds so technical. If I were a new christian and heard ths speal, I would of said forget this christianity jargon its too complicated. But I do admire your high intellect. Just remember though High intellect will not get you saved. The blood of Jesus Christ will. Try intellectualizing the blood of Jesus.
This stuff is so divisive because there are verses that support both sides of the argument (sovereignty and free will) and believers on both sides of the argument will be in heaven (meaning this isn’t an essential doctrine).
Christopher, you make an interesting statement and this issue has been on my mind. People criticize Christianity (rightfully, I think) because of all the denominations. Yet, as you say, the Bible itself presents these varying takes this topic, as well as on many different ideas. It seems to me that for a book to have such an important message, it could’ve been a lot more clear.
KC I think man tried to categorize things in the Bible, call them “doctrines” in many cases, and then divide over them. If you really study the Bible, you find some crazy stuff in there as far as how God relates to man. There are some things that are pretty clear though - 1 God as the only creator, how He has interacted with man (love and judgment) and then sending His Son so we can be reconciled to Him through faith. I think God has answered many questions in the Bible for us (for example how to have a relationship w Him) but certainly not all (what happens right after you die, how does all the end times stuff work, seemingly opposing verses on sovereignty vs free will, etc)
I don't think God's Word ever mentions free will. It seems to indicate that God is sovereign, and man is either subject to evil (slave to sin & sinful nature) or subject to good (slave to Christ & Holy Spirit). I grew up in a "free will" Arminian denomination, and thought myself saved because of what I was taught, but it never sat right in my heart. I even became a minister of this free will theology, but was never convinced or satisfied. I left the ministry and God, but a decade later God saved me by his grace. It was then that my eyes were opened and upon receiving the Holy Spirit was assured of my salvation. I learned that I was a sinner devoid of any good, and that God saved me by his grace alone. Anyway, I don't really know why I'm responding to your 3-month old comment, but these are just my two cents.
Well, I Get What You're Saying, Kins Of....However, when You add the term "LIMITED" To Something as Marvelous as SALVATION, It Is A BIG DEAL.
@@danderth I personally think it’s splitting hairs...did you come to God or did God come to you. The fundamentals are you recognize your sin and seek salvation through Christ regardless of what you believe about who initiates what. Personally I think the fact that Adam and Eve were created with free will essentially proves the free will argument, but again I think there are plenty of believers on both sides of the aisle
“What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying?
Matthew 18:12 NKJV
Limited ATONEMENT? Smh
Is the Right of Arm GOD short ( limited ) that it cannot save ( make ATONEMENT for )?
that verse is talking to a believer not every single individual
@@CEOofSleep the lost sheep 1 of 99 is not a believer. The subject is regarding ATONEMENT being limited.
Everyone is SAVED, "if" they are willing to be SAVED. The price has been paid by HIS BLOOD.
@@jmtz9957 how can one be willing to be saved if you are spiritually dead?
@@CEOofSleep its called...... GRACE!
limited atonement is a man made concept. He took away the sin of the world, he tasted death for every man, he is the savior of the whole world especially those who believe. He didn't take a specific amount of agony for the specific sins of you and me and other believers, he took the wrath of god towards all sin, and was our propitiation. In essence , by his innocent death he created the way/door by which the guilty can enter and have life. It was a provisional sacrifice, not a sin specific one.
God went to GREAT lengths so that all humanity could be saved. Its up to each person to receive it.
@@oscartango8234 Men are called to believe and put faith in Jesus, but Ultimately it is NOT up to person to receive it, its up to God whom give the grace to the elect.
@@drumondfanton2699 Bull crap! God does not play favorites! He only accepts those who purify their souls. Calvinists have been systematically trained to ignore simple and profound bible passages. If that is the case then I was born a holy man naturally. Christ came to save siiners one of which Im not. Oh shoot. Im going to hell. Thanks alot!
@@drumondfanton2699 That is true when satan teaches that doctrine because jesus came to save sinners and if God chose only the elect then that means the elect are the only sinners and the rest are naturally good people. Well then if I dont have to repent then whats the point of living holy. The truth is that when we wash ourselves in the blood of the lamb then we are saved. When the bible talks of the elect it basically states those who have washed their sins in the blood of Jesus. But then im wasting my breath because you religious calvinists dont believe in the power of the blood. So go ahead and preach that stupid predestination crap, If predestination was true then nobody would reject christ and how many people do? so i refuse to believe in predestination. Or at least mans idea of what it is
@@drumondfanton2699 It is up to man to put trust in christ. God is not an asshole. Okay? he's a good gentleman like person. He never imposes his will on anyone. I dont know about you but I rather deal with gentlemen. Not brutes like islamic people. Just saying.
Being in Grace Community Church is the only reason I would live in California.
Me too. :)
It's like a lighthouse in the land full of spiritual darkness .
@@jasonsmith3202 So following false teaching which Christ did not teach is your idea of a lighthouse?
Can you bring these questions to Pastor John:
Did Adam represented all mankind? (assume : Yes, it is a universal truth which all Christians agree)
Did God preached the gospel to Adam? (assume : Yes, that was the reason why Adam name the woman, Eve)
Is the gospel a gift of eternal life? (assume : Yes, gospel is God's Only Son Promises Eternal Life)
Did Adam represented all mankind?! (Reiterated)
Then the gift which requires atonement was promised to Adam who represented all mankind?
Is then the atonement made for all mankind?
If you disagree then your representative principle fall apart?
The above is clearly stated in Romans 5:15 - 19, when you interpret first "all men" and second "all men" in Romans 5:18 consistently to mean "all mankind". Does this point to the fact that you have misinterpreted the scripture on the issue of atonement?
Macarthur is leading souls astray
John 17:9
King James Version
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
@Ryan Buikema Matthew 15:24
King James Version
24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. NICE TRY DUMB,DUMB!
@Ryan Buikema YOUR ABOUT AS DUMB,AS A BRICK.
@Ryan Buikema TELL ME SOMETHING SMART GUY,ARE THE PEOPLE IN ISREAL TODAY GODS CHOSEN PEOPLE,YES OR NO?
@Ryan Buikema YEAH GO SIT YOUR ASS DOWN,CAUSE I SEE YOU NO NOTHING ABOUT THE BIBLE.IF YOUR A WHITE PERSON REMEMBER THIS VERSE,REV 13:10,HE THAT LEADETH INTO CAPTIVITY SHALL GO INTO CAPTIVITY!I REALLY KNOW THIS PART OF THE BIBLE THOU.LOL!
@@yechezqelyehudi5164
Romans 9
6It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” b 8In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.
Not all who are of Israel, are Israel.
The Atonement is unlimited which is why the judgement is now based on who believes on Jesus and no longer on who keeps the law.
Amen! We need to pray for John MacArthur and the people that he is deceiving.
I thank God for rc sprouls ministry . And what it meant to me ( MISS U BROTHER ) .. and I thank God for DR John MACARTHUR'S ministry. these two men have really helped me in my journey to be more like christ. Thank u .
It's funny 🤣 though, how these false preachers believe that the blood of Christ is powerful enough to reconcile all things in heaven and on earth ( Even redeem the earth itself from the curse of Sin) but not the entire human race? That doesn't sound right. The Devil Is a Liar and the Father of Lies.
@@smartrecords4881 John 17: 8-9 8 for the words which you gave me I have given them ; and they received them and truly understood that I came forth from you ( God ) and they believe that you sent me .9 I ask on their behalf ; I do not ask on behalf of the world, but of those whom you have given me; for they are yours... Roman's 10:17 so faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of christ..Roman's 10:9 if you confess with your mouth jesus as lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead , you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in rightousness,and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation .. 11 for the scripture says , whoever's believes in him will not be disappointed... john 6:44 no one can come to me unless the father who sent me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day ... so yes God put the blood on the door post of the elects hearts through faith in him ... and jesus prayed for those who hear his voice and heeded his fathers call ..as for the world who live in carnallity, they have no desire for him.. or want to come to him .. but praise God for those he has chosen and has predestined from the foundation of the world to be saved .. I hope u heed his call too .
the snag is, who's to say RC Sproul was among the elect? he could easily be in the other group for all we know
@@blackfalkon4189 at the end of the day God is the only one who knows who went to Heaven & who went to Hell, however it’s just some men that you can tell he’s saved or at least have a pretty good idea that he did if you have any type of discernment… I believe RC is is heaven with the LORD!!! … my goodness what a lucky fella! 😊…. God bless you brotha
@@glennfeltman6241 but how do you know you're among the 'elect'? for all you know you lost that lottery & are in the other group
nb. incidentally in john 17:9 "those you have given me" are the 12 apostles
That’s a partial truth.
The atonement is unlimited to all who believe but limited to those whom have believed.
In Romans , once we’re saved it says that we have “now” received the atonement.
It was available but we hadn’t received it before we were reconciled with God.
He's making is sound like unless you believe that Jesus really only died for some, and didn't even WANT His atonement to extend to all, you're a universalist. Which is just very simply not true.
Calvinists are ignorant Gospel rejecting heathen. Pray for them.
Right he sets up something based on false assumptions that contradicts the Bible.
Romans 5:18 "Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also, the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men." Point is this: ALL were condemned, but now ALL have been given life. BUT, man is free (by Gods Sovereign choice) to ACCEPT or REJECT that FREE GIFT of GRACE from our Sovereign God. ALL condemned therefore ALL given opportunity to accept/reject life.
Uplifting message about the amount of people who have not been saved by Christ's finished work of reconciliation.
Good way to make a point. I totally agree:)
It's sobering, but true. To deny it is to deny scripture.
@@stevehardwick1578 To be ignorant of Scripture and believe these obvious fallacies John says is proof that you don't know Jesus!
Every point he made was based on unbiblical false dichotomies. "Either you believe Jesus didn't atone for the whole world like Scripture says, or you are a Universalist and hell doesn't exist" is absolutely false and damning.
God says Jesus atoned for the whole world. The atonement has to be received! People go to hell because they reject the free gift of Jesus Christ! Not because Jesus never atoned for them.
To believe in the lies of Calvinism is to reject the Gospel of Christ!
Universal reconciliation is a fallacy and teaching/believing it will send people to eternal damnation.
@@BornAgain490 people that argue against limited atonement aren’t always fighting for universal reconciliation or universalism. We’re simply saying salvation is available to all because that’s how sufficient Jesus sacrifice was, but you must repent and believe in order to receive it.
What is the Calvinist interpretation of:
"And I [Jesus], when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself." (John 12:32)
Atonement is complete, in the finished work of Christ.
However this atonement is for the children of God.
🔰John 1:12
"But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become God’s children, to those who believe in His name"
This atonement is valid for those who receive Jesus Christ. But this atonement is available for ALL. Because it's the will of the Father that none should perish.
🔰Mat 18:14
"Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish"
God is sovereign that's why He gives the the decision to receive the Savior to the same people who rejected Him in Eden. Making man bring back the Glory & Honor to the Son of God through a voluntary free will act.
It is not God's will for anyone to perish but for all to come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9).
@@stephaniew.9366
Amen 🙋♂️
@@stephaniew.9366 Read that passage and you will see that verse is in the context of the Day of the Lord and Christ coming in judgment upon the world at His return.
@@krownzera In context, God's will does not change. Bless you in the Name of Jesus. Amen
The verses you cite do not at all support what you are saying
John 1:12 teaches that regeneration comes through or after faith, and Matthew 17 is talking about little children whom you think are totally inable from birth and born guilty before God.
If atonement is limited to a few that God pre-determined, then "God so loved the world" is a lie.
This is the most amazing confession and yet sadly also the most unbelievable self deception! Pastor John MacArthur knew the scripture teaches Jesus Christ died for the whole world and yet he will hold on to men’s words that Jesus Christ died only for the elects! Pastor John, why did you throw away all the biblical hermeneutics you taught? Can you see your faith is shifted from trusting in God’s Word to men’s words? Romans 5:18 is not clear enough for you to discern the truth? How can you said because Jesus Christ died for the whole world means the whole world will be saved? Have you rightly divided the Word of truth? Where in God’s Word said that? Instead of making sense in the light of what scripture teaches, you choose men’s fallible logic! How tragic!
Agree
I pray God will open your eyes dear friend. Jesus did die for the Elect.
Jesus did not die for the whole world.Jesus only died for those who would believe.It's only those who believe that are saved.So whether one thinks it's for the elect (which I do because of the numerous scriptures that support it) or if you think people choose in their free will (which I don't because of the numerous scriptures that says either that no one seeks for God or that no one is able in their flesh to make that choice unless God grants them repentance) - either way you have limited atonement.Oh...and often when the writers of the New Testament use words like "the world" and "all" it usually means in it's context Jews and Gentiles or all types of people.Not everyone who did, do and will live.
drumond fanton my eyes are wide open. One every important key for you to consider: many agreed that Genesis 3:15 is the gospel preached by God Himself. If Jesus Christ did not died for all mankind then your representative principle fall apart, as Adam represented all man!
Brenda how will the scripture be written if the writer meant all men? You have to said that what which was written, the only difference is how we interpreted it. I don’t change the meaning of the words used in the scripture but all who said Christ’s atonement is limited, changes the meaning of words to the elect. “All men” does not means “all men” but "all the elect"; "the world" does not means “the world” but "the world of the elect"! Remember Pastor John’s preaching in which he himself said “misinterpreting the scripture is essentially no difference with unbelief, either way you missed the truth!”. Take for example, Romans 5:18, they changed the meaning of "all men" to meant only the elect:
Romans 5:18 KJV
[18] Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
The first “all men” all agreed to be all mankind, and so to be consistent, the second “all men” must meant the same, but the Calvinists would change it to be the “elect”! Ask Pastor John: is this the correct way of interpreting the scripture? Is this exegesis or eisegesis? Let him answer truthfully!
I get confused with this because people will start saying including myself at times,”Well then did God predestine people to go to hell?” But it can also go back to the whole thing of,”Why did He put the tree of life there in the first place?” Honestly I’m just it’s whatever at this point. I’m just trying to spread the Word to the lost like we are called to. These little discussions are good but if it brings disunity then I just move on.
By Calvinist teaching (the doctrine of reprobation) yes God predetermined those who are not elect will be born, die, and spend eternity in hell, having no ability to be saved. Yet according to Calvinist it is still the peoples fault. There is a reason this teaching was unknown to the church for over 400 years and then introduced by one man (Augustine) who had spent a decade as a Gnostic heretic prior to being saved. Interestingly even Augustine did not teach this doctrine until the end of his life, changing his previously orthodox teaching to better argue against Pelagius.
I'm in the same boat. Grew up Calvinist but infant baptism and Limited Atonement never made sense to me and I don't think either of these are issues that will determine your salvation one way or the other.
If God's purpose was for Christ to atone for _everyone who ever lived,_ but only _some of them_ "chose to accept Him", wouldn't that mean that His sacrifice didn't do all that God intended it to do? Everything God intends will come to fruition. _He is absolutely sovereign!_ You all need to STOP looking at this from a man-centered (synergistic) point-of-view. We have NOTHING to do with our salvation. It is ALL of God. If you don't like it, you're simply the pitiful, weak clay trying to answer back to the Potter.
I'll be standing well out of the way.....⚡️
He’s the potter, we’re the clay, yes!
KTTGHMTJWYCBLAC I think none of those. While we were yet sinners, God chose us, and in his mercy he has compassion on whom He will have compassion and not through any merit of our own.
KTTGHMTJWYCBLAC Sorry to hear this. I had friends at university who led me to Christ were my dearest friends and mentors and now two are gay and one is very liberal. Is this what the bible calls the perseverance of the saints- though we sin we repent and the Lord restores us (think of David). We don’t stay in sin. Justin Peters has a wonderful way of saying this: a Christian will not swim in sin. The best thing we can do for them is continue in prayer, love them and stay in touch.
Evan U absolutely, it is a personal relationship with Jesus that saves us, knowing he died and bled for us so that we could be reconciled to a holy God. Now we can say “Abba” he is our Father enjoying all the privileges Jesus does. This is awesome and humbling. So now I want to live a life that pleases him, hating my sin and wanting what he wants.Galatians 2:20, ESV: "I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
@emaNyM his atonement was for all,but only those who accept and place faith Christ have the benefit of the atonement,universally atonement made it possible for all,it opened the possibility for all that will belive in Christ redemptive work to be saved.
Just one proof text that not all that God desires happens :
KJV, St. Luke 13:34
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!
Faith is not work,we cannot do anything to earn our salvation, but we can belive and be saved,that doesn't incloud work,faith is not work!
The Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, WHAT I MUST DO to be saved?
The Acts 16:31 And they said, BELIVE on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Self centered??Arminianism centeres the blame for sin,and eternal damnation on chooices of man,and that is self centered?
Whereas Calvinism puts the blame on God that predestined that men should go to hell for the pleasure of his will... What a Holy God centered blasphemy..
Calvinisn is a sick self centered doctrine that does not care that your neighbors and your children are going to hell,all that matters is we are the elect,nevermind my precious children and neighbors,God in his love senteced them to hell before begining of the world,Calvinism is sick self centered, self concerned theology while Arminians care for the salvation of others which they can affect.
Augustinian-Calvinism is sick pagan gnostic mounstrous doctrine from hell...
Now since the arrangement of all things is in the hands of God... He arranges...that individuals are born, who are doomed from the womb to certain death, and are to GLORIFY HIM BY THEIR DESTRUCTION... John Calvin,Institutes
It represents the most Holy God as worse then the Devil, as both more false and cruel, and more unjust'... 'it is a mounstrous doctrine and therefore cannot possibly be biblical..' Rev.John Wesley
Cheer up Muslims,gnostics,platonist,manacheians also hold to predestination!You have much in common...
Romans 9-11 has a very happy ending:
"God has consigned all to disobedience, that He may have mercy on all. … From Him, and through Him and to Him are all things." (Romans 11:32,36a)
This is not the only interpretation of the issue at hand. This is asking the question and giving the answer based on presuppositions and Calvinism
This is not just a matter of interpretation! That liar and deceiver just literally perverted the Gospel of Christ! I read Galatians... Paul said people who do that are "accursed"... which means damned by God.
I pray that he accepted Christ before he died.
@@eiontactics9056 Be careful that you becomes the perverter of the gospel! Anyone can be saved without the knowledge of Calvinism or Arminianism. The gospel is simply to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ that He is able to save us from our sin. Don't complicate it nor water it down.
@@willtestagain Your comment already shows ignorance, not as a demeaning term, but by definition.
"Anyone can be saved without the knowledge of Calvinism or Arminianism..."
This proves that you are not well studied on this topic/issue nor understand my concerns.
1.) Calvinism vs Arminianism is a false dichotomy. BOTH are false and start with Augustinian gnostic philosophies. Arminius was a Calvinist. BOTH are unbiblical and presuppose that God chooses individuals to be saved before eternity past... either unconditionally (Calvinism) or by foreknowledge (Arminianism)--- the issue is, God never chose individuals to be saved before eternity past in Scripture. It is a completely unbiblical gnostic concept.
2.) My argument/concern is that Calvinism is a totally different religion that masquerades as Christianity. The core distinctives of Calvinism pervert the very core fundamentals of Biblical Christianity (God's nature, Who Jesus died for, The Gospel, etc.) So much so that in order to believe in Calvinism, you have to reject God as revealed by Scripture, Jesus as revealed by Scripture and the Gospel as revealed by Scripture.
My point, if someone only ever believed in Calvinism, then they are not saved. The statement is true to the fact that in Scripture we learn that in order to be saved, we must believe in the Gospel *as revealed by Scripture*.
Most people, like yourself, don't realize that Calvinism has infiltrated so far within our (Bible Believeing Christians) communities that you have developed/inherited and accepted a weird exclusive double standard just for Calvinism. Would you hold your same standard towards Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses? If I said that Mormons are not my brothers and sisters in Christ, would you have said the same thing to me? If not, why?
Hope this helps you to understand, thanks for commenting. 🙏 ❤️
@@eiontactics9056 You know the prince of preachers Charles Spurgeon is a Calvinist? Are you ready to call him a heretick? Do you even know most of the Churches after the 16th century reformation were Calvinistic? Are you ready to say that all the souls in those Reformed churches were lost? If you dare not call Charles Spurgeon a heretick which I expect, then are you the one who needs to study the scripture more closely for your ignorance?
@@willtestagain Charles Spurgeon is a false preacher that lead MANY away from Christ! Let him be accursed.
He isn't "the prince of preachers" (btw, pretty man exalting)... he was a Calvinist cult leader that beguiled many victims into the false religion of Calvinism.
People are not saved because Christ died on the Cross. McArthur should know this. We are saved by receiving Jesus and believing in Him.
@Alex-dx5fq In that case you and him are universalists!
Once u define atonement, propitiation, vicarious, substitutionary as Scripture does you can't walk away believing Jesus died in the place of all who have ever lived, he appeased God's wrath, Scripture does not teach univeraalism. Even John 3, ahead of 3:16 lays out Paticular Redemption, in that the death and life of Christ and the eternal life He gives are Only applied to the believing ones, them alone and them entirely, Jew AND Gentile, which is the World, it does not exclude any people group, but includes evey tribe, tongue and nationality.
rachray83 Well explained!
@@thelasthourgetready All KINDS of people. All means ALL KINDS, not everyone who has ever lived.
@MinorSingingAirhead Christ died for everyone who would believe in him !!!
If all sins were propitiated on the cross, then we have double jeapardy for anyone in hell, because they are being punished for sins that Jesus already paid for entirely. That is inherently unjust, and to believe this is nothing short of blasphemy, even if it seems harmless on the surface. Think about it, it means that God poured out his wrath twice as much as his righteousness demanded, which is itself contradicts his righteousness. It's an eye for an eye, not both eyes for one.
@@westin6455 I think the missing point is that people don't go to hell because of their sin. They go to hell because they have rejected the free gift of salvation found in Jesus Christ.
Everything that happens in history has been decreed/Predestined before the world was created see Eph 1:11, Proverbs 16:33 and Amos 3:6. And yes even when terrible things happen, I know it's hard for some people to accept but look what happened when David sinned against God and one of Davids punishments was that God told him that he was going to use Davids own son to shame his Father by Absalom Absalom doing something immoral to his Fathers concubines in front of all of Israel, see 2 Samuel 12:11-12 God said "Thus says the Lord, ‘Behold, I will raise up evil against you from your own household; I will even take your wives before your eyes and give them to your companion, and he will lie with your wives in broad daylight. Indeed you did it secretly, but I will do this thing before all Israel, and under the sun." Notice how God said "I WILL DO THIS THING."That was fulfilled in 2 Samuel 16:21-22. Jesus did not die for every single person ever and Jesus didn't die to make people savable. He died to save his elect. In John 17:9 Jesus said that he does not pray for the world. The word world is used in different contexts, in that context he's talking about the non elect. In John 3:16 world means that he purchased people from every tribe, tongue and nation Rev 5:9 and for the children of God scattered abroad John 11:52. Some have been "long beforehand marked out for condemnation" Jude 4 and "appointed to doom." 1 Peter 2:8. About Pharaoh God said “For this VERY PURPOSE I raised you up, to demonstrate My power in you, and that My name might be proclaimed throughout the whole earth.” So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires." Rom 9:17-18. Jesus said "I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to infants. Yes, Father, for this way was well-pleasing in Your sight. All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him." Matthew 11:25-27. So, 2 Pet 3:9 the "not willing that any should perish" if you read that letter in context, 2 Pet 1:1 says "To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours." As far as salvation for all men verses, Paul was refuting the false notion of his time that God was only desiring to save just the Jews and 1 Tim 2:2 says to pray "for kings and all who are in authority" because as humans WE DON'T KNOW WHO THE ELECT ARE SO WE PRAY FOR EVERYONE! That's what it means in verse 4 by saying "all men." Amos 3:2 God said "of all the nations of the earth I have only known you." For centuries God passed over the majority of humankind because this verse isn't about knowledge it's about relationship. And it isn't because God foresaw Israel was more righteous then the other nations because sometimes Israel was more sinful then the pagan nations see 2 Kings 21:9. Only those who were predestined to be saved will be see Acts 13:48, Ephesians 1:4-5, Eph 1:11, Romans 9:11-23, John 6:37. 1 Samuel 3:14 God said “Therefore I have sworn to the house of Eli that the iniquity of Eli’s house shall not be atoned for by sacrifice or offering forever.” That's Limited atonement.
Right on brother. I think you've managed to state about five hours of Reformed apologetics into a single youtube comment. And quite well, I'll say.
I've been reading through Ezekiel in my bedtime reading lately (one of those corners of our bibles that doesn't get much traffic). Gotta tell you, God's sovereignty over the calamities that befell Judah and Israel during the exile years is all over the pages. Example, 7:9, "My eye will show no pity nor will I spare. I will repay you according to your ways, while your abominations are in your midst; then you will know that I, the LORD, do the smiting."
Atonment is limited only by mans unbelief in jesus and the gospel.
Think of it this way. Someone bought and paid for a great gift for each and every person who ever lived. Roughly 15% of everyone actually accepts, opens and now has the gift as their own personal possession. The others reject the gift for whatever reason. The One who gave the great gift offered it to ALL, but few actually believed, opened it, accepted it and possess it and have it!
But make no mistake, the Giver paid for and offered the gift FOR ALL.
Thank you Jesus that in my earthly sinful state and hardheadedness, I actually accepted and received You as my personal Savior. All of the credit and glory goes to you Jesus!
These calvinists go to great lengths to say that Jesus really didn’t die for the world. God kept salvation simple to understand and attainable.
The verse he quoted about workers of iniquity does not say they will be burned alive for all eternity. Jesus never taught that anyone would be burned alive.
The atonement doesn’t save anyone, it takes care of the legal requirements of the law. Col 2:14. By contrast we are saved by his life. Rom 5:10.
Well, also Romans 5:9 tells us we are justified by His blood.
Amen!
and of course faith (Romans 10:17) is needed, which is to hear the Word of God often, and then there is baptism that is required (John 3) and partaking of the bread and wine (we use water)--------- (John 6). We not saved in one day, it is a journey, we must keep reading and staying close to family and community. Romans 13: 11 " for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. " Salvation not yet. Ask what He wants from us today.
He makes the mistake of assuming that the cross by itself is efficacious for salvation; that is, that sins are forgiven by the payment offered on the cross apart from any personal response. The General Atonement view argues that the cross makes provision for my sin, but it does not become efficacious for my salvation until I receive that provision by faith. And that is in fact what Scripture seems to teach (see Rom. 5:17).
So in other words, the work of salvation is not completed by Christ, and is only a possibility unless a person "receives" it. I think he'd say you're making the mistake of attributing saving power to human freedom.
This is a tough subject but I believe Dr. MacArthur answered it well. It all begins with the meaning of atonement. Actual atonement means God's wrath has been satisfied against sinners. I've actually given the same type of answer to others who doubt limited atonement. It has to be limited or Revelation 20:11-14 is a lie. The atonement is limited to those that believe. So how do they believe? By grace through faith are sinners saved (Ephesians 2:8-9). It's not by their works or their own efforts. God has to give/grant repentance according to Acts 5:31, 11:18, and 2 Timothy 2:25. No one can come to Christ the Son unless the Father draws them and gives them to the Son (John 6:37-44). So atonement has to be limited in application or all would be saved (and that is universalism).
The problem comes from passages that use the word "world" (John 3:16) or "all" (think 1 Timothy 2:4-6 and 2 Peter 3:9 as two examples). Here is where our zeal for the salvation of the lost along with our modern day gospel messages to get a "decision" play into how we read many of these texts. We want the choice to be up to man's will (and I can understand that because there are plenty of verses that say choose, repent, and believe) because we think man has the ability. Because of that, "world" and "all" in our own minds always means "every single person that ever lived or will ever live." However, words have meaning in context. The Greek word for world can mean many things based on the context: In John 15:18-23, it speaks of the unsaved world. In James 4:4 and 1 John 2:15-17 it speaks of the world system. In John 12:19 it speaks of the Gentiles as opposed to the Jews. In Revelation 13:6 it speaks of the planet itself. The word "world" has numerous applications based on the context.
As for "all," it is an indefinite pronoun that must hearken back to another pronoun or noun. That is the way we get the context. This is the reason so many folks quote the last part of 2 Peter 3:9 without using it in its context, because the indefinite pronouns "all" and "any" reference back to "us-ward" (in the KJV) and that hearkens back to the noun "beloved" in 3:8, which are believers. The bottom line, not everyone will be saved, but if it is up to the will of man, then by default the atonement is not specific and actual until man makes the decision, which makes Jesus' death on the cross either for every single person (universalism) or only potentially for someone (which means Jesus statement of "It is finished" in John 19:30 must mean something other than a definite work of atonement).
Your comment was very helpful. Thank you.
Well said! God bless
Try to explain away Romans 5:18?
@@SetWillBill I'm not sure what you mean, explain Romans 5:18 away. There's nothing to explain away, the verse means what it means, but it means what it means in context. What is the context and content of this verse in respect to the other verses? That is the problem when we take one verse and just read it without the context being explained. Romans 5:12-21 gives a contrast between those in Adam (sinners) and those in Christ (believers), going further into the wondrous fact that believers are reconciled to Christ through the atonement (Romans 5:10-11).
First, the contrast is given in many areas between sinners and saints. Verse 15: the offense of those in Adam is death, the gift of grace in those in Christ abounds. Verses 16-18, those in Adam are condemned, those in Christ are justified. Verse 19: by Adam many are made sinners, by Christ, many are made righteous. The contrast is between two types of people, those in Adam, who are condemned already to judgement and death, and those in Christ, those that are justified unto eternal life. We must remember the context as we're reading because it makes sense to the next objection I will discuss.
Second, Romans 5:18 actually reads in the KJV, "Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life." I'm thinking you're keying in on "all men," which I believe you think to mean that the free gift came upon every single person that ever lived so God died for every single person. This is the problem when we take "all" or "all men" without understanding these are indefinite pronouns and the context explains who the "all" actually is. "All men to condemnation" pertains to all unrepentant sinners. "All men unto justification of life" pertains to all that have been saved. It is part of the contrast, because the very next verse (5:19) says, "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous." Well, this verse still speaks of the same contrast in verse 18, but now you get "many" instead of "all." So does verse 19 contradict verse 18? Does the "all" (which is said to mean every single person that ever lived) now becomes "many" (which doesn't mean "all" at all)? No, because the contrast is between unrepentant sinners (many of them will be judged in Revelation 20:11-14) and those saved by grace (those that have eternal life). This makes sense because not all will be condemned to death and not all will have eternal life. Yet all unrepentant sinners will be condemned to death and all saved by grace will have eternal life. Verse 18 can't mean "all" in terms of every single person because there is a third problem:
Third, notice the second part of verse 18 says, "..even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life." Honestly think about this; does the free gift come upon every single person unto the justification of life? If this is true, then every single person would be saved because notice it says justification of life. What justification? Romans 3:24 says, "Being justified freely by his grace, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus." We're justified by the redemption in Jesus Christ; this speaks of salvation because no man is justified before God by their own merits, we are only found just in the sight of God by Jesus Christ. If it pertains to all men, then all men would be saved and justified. Not all men (or people) are saved and justified or no one would go to hell. We can never read into the text that Christ died for all unless we believe everyone is saved or that Christ's death only brings potential salvation or potential justification or potential eternal life dependent on the will of man.
As I wrote in my first post, the problem arises when we read the words "world" or "all" because we insert meanings into those words by taking verses out of context and making them say what we want them to say. And I understand this, because we desire sinners to be saved and we want to believe Christ's atonement was accomplished for every single person. In application it can't be because no one would go to hell. This is the reason we are to command or call sinners to repent and believe, confessing Christ as Lord and that God the Father raised Him from the dead for our salvation (Romans 10:9-13). We don't know who will repent and believe, because it is God that does the work of salvation in the hearts of sinners, we're just to proclaim the gospel and pray God gives them ears to truly hear (Romans 10:14-17). That is the reason, not once in the book of Acts, do you see a gospel message where the proclamation of the gospel says, "Christ died for you." But you will find repent and the resurrection. We can't know who Christ died for until someone is saved, then we know. In that respect, the actual atonement is always limited to those that believe, and those are the elect (Ephesians 1:4).
His position does not make sense so God's wrath was limited to believers sins? That make christ work on the cross as incomplete. Either none or all
"He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world" 1 John 2:2
John MacArthur: “The atonement is limited because people go to Hell. … And if you believe in a Universal Atonement-to be logically consistent-then there’s no Hell, and no one will be in Hell, and everyone will be in Heaven. If you’re going to affirm an Unlimited Atonement, then you really are going to end up as a Universalist, because if He actually died for the whole world, then the whole world is saved.” (How is limited atonement true when Scripture teaches that Christ died for the whole world?, 0:09 - 0:54)
So, in other words, non-Calvinists are Universalists who cannot affirm that there is a Hell.
Calvinists get away with this kind of stuff whenever they speak in their own echo-chamber. Meanwhile, in the real world, non-Calvinist “Provisionists” very much do affirm that there is a Hell, including the necessity of the gospel. The logical consistency of an Unlimited Atonement is that God provided an atonement for everyone, and people forfeit the grace that was meant to be theirs whenever they reject the gospel. That way, people in Hell can be told that they didn’t have to be there. Calvinists can’t say that.
John MacArthur seems to believe that the atonement *automatically* saves. In the Provisionist view, there is the available/applied principle. The atonement is available to all but is only applied to believers. Hence, there is no logical discrepancy, as alleged in John MacArthur’s echo-chamber.
I'm tired of these words "accept Jesus, don't reject him". The Bible is clear when it comes to the state of depravity of men, Romans 3 they are none who seek God. Why is that people believe that in themselves they have the power to either accept or reject the Gospel. Man is a slave to sin. We believe because it is a work of the Holy Spirit that regenerates us.
@@smokingcrab2290 If you pay attention to the video, the video has many false presuppositions about unlimited atonement. It makes those false assumptions and then attempts to address those assumptions. However, this is a classical straw man. Of course, the reason why it assumes falsely is because they assume that the exact opposite of their beliefs is the only opposing position that could exist. And taking this approach is often the result of being ignorant of the opposing positions. Indeed, it is a vicious cycle. But the people who are in places of authority, they rarely consider criticism, and that is their own downfall.
@wildboar221 Sir did Jesus fail to save?
@wildboar221 false. Absolutely false. According to you Jesus failed at His mission because His mission was to fulfill the will of The Father “This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.””
John 6:39-40 NASB
Not hypocrisy just scripture.
@wildboar221 Yes, God does what he pleases sir. Read Roman 9. Why was Judas born? Why was pharaoh born? They came to this word to bring about God’s plan. However this does not mean they are not held responsible. “Jesus answered, “You would have no authority over Me, unless it had been given you from above; for this reason he who delivered Me to you has the greater sin.””
John 19:11 NASB1995
Notice that even though Jesus acknowledges the sovereignty of God in his death. He still hold those who delivered Him to more severe sin. So yes God chooses whom he chooses. It is God’s sovereign choice. If God wanted to show his mercy and grace everyone would be saved, and their would be no room for God to show his righteousness and Holiness. So in other words there would be no hell. However if God wanted just to show his righteousness and Holiness no one would make it to heaven and everyone in hell. Since God wanted to show his attributes completely he shows his mercy to some and judgment to others. Remember it is for His Glory why he created us. He does not need to give you a explanation of himself to you or anyone else.
I love Jmac. his doesn't answer the the question that the title of this video poses. He doesn't discuss any texts. he doesn't consider that there could have been multuple purposes and effects in the death and atonement of Christ. This is a disaapointing answer. "you just remind yourself that you believe in a limited atonement" when you come across texts that challenge that view is a bad take.
God does not deside that someone goes to hell.
Determined does not mean, He decided it to happen so.
Because God knows the end from the beginning, He knows for whom He would die for.
Because He knew who would repent and who not does not mean He decided it that way.
Love in order to be love must be free.
A free decision to love God or reject Him.
God does not want that anyone should perish but has everlasting life.
God is still sovereign.
His will is that people are free in their choices.
But not free of consequences.
Every other view on that subject seems to me unbiblical.
U basically made his point while trying to refute it when you brought up God's omniscience
Nice try, Mr. Arminian!
Universal reconciliation can include hell because Hell is for the cleansing of sin. God isn't a monster, He is a loving Father who is Love. Ultimately every knee will bow, and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord, Eventually He will be all in all 1 Corinthians 15:28. Acts 17:28 In Him we live, move and have our being. The early Church understood God as corrector and restorer, even the Word translated as punishment. Kolasis, which actully means pruning! Eternal Conscious Torment, is a blasphemous, unjust judgment. How can a finite being deserve an infinite judgment? When you read the New Testament with an eternal hell filter, you only see judgment as that, it's so Orwellian in terms of doublethink!
The atonement is not limited it saves whosoever will. God didn't choose Bob to be saved and Ted to be lost. He chose to save those who believe
@KTTGHMTJWYCBLAC you people can't tell others Jesus loves them or God if he pre planned damnation for one and if one has absolutely no say or choice then even you are saved against your will
Isaiah whosoever will let him come and drink it's a choice and I don't believe grace is irresistable for the elect but resistable to the lost
@KTTGHMTJWYCBLAC also I can't prove this but I believe God wrote everyone's name in the book of life before the world however if they did having rejected the gospel by thier own free will he erased it
@KTTGHMTJWYCBLAC choice
Acts 13:48
When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.
John 6:65
And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”
You are a clown. Who you think gave them the believe lol smh
The atonement is limited in its application but unlimited in its extended. A sovereign God can do whatever he wants, including give men free will. Biblically speaking, it is crystal clear that Christ died for every person, so why aren’t ALL men saved then? Because unless you TRUST and believe in Christ and receive the atonement it isn’t applied to anyone. Limited in its application to whosoever believes but unlimited in its extent. David Allen’s book is great on this subject. Praise be to the living God who loves every person
Actually, it's the exact opposite: God WILL bring those who believe to salvation, but not all are called.
@@douglasmcnay644 exactly, the elect only are chosen
"In Christ name I have wept over you as the Saviour did, and used his words on his behalf," O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, how often would I have gathered thy children together as hen gathereth her chickens under her Wings, and ye would not.... "Oh!God does plead with... everyone of you" Repent, and be converted for the remission of your sins... "
" No", says one strong-doctrine man"God never invites all men to himself.... "Stop sir....Did you ever read..." My oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready;come unto the marriage.And they that were bidden would not come....."Now if the invitation is...made (only) to the man who will accept it, how can the parable be true? The fact is...the invitation is free...." Whosoever will, let him come..."
Now... some of you (may) say that I was.... Arminian at the end. I care not. I beg you to... turn unto the Lord with all your hearts. - C.H.Spurgeon
God telleth us as plain as can be spoken that Christ died for and tasted death for every man...other will deny thesd plain truths, becose they think that (God cannot justly punish those for whom Christ had paid the penalty)...But doth the Sripture speak...these opinions of theirs as plainly as it saith that Christ died for all and every man?
Doth it say plainly anywhere that He died not for all...?Doth it say anywhere that he died only for is Sheep, or His Elect, and exclude the Non-Elect?There is no such word in the Bible...Richard Baxter
*John 10 : 11,26-29*
I am the Good Shepherd; the Good Shepherd giveth His life for the sheep. But ye believe not, because ye are not of My sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them and they follow Me. And I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of My hand. My Father, who gave them to Me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of My Father’s hand.
@@dwashington1333 Do you understand the verse you posted? Or do you just make assumptions based on what man made philosophies of Calvinism told you to believe? Please read the WHOLE book without your Calvinistic lenses on. That verse in context actually contradicts Calvinism. Actually... the whole Bible contradicts Calvinism.
@@eiontactics9056 I understand the verse very well. Jesus gave his life for the sheep. Is everyone a sheep? No some people are goats. Jesus died for the sheep not the goats.
@@dwashington1333 Jesus's followers are His sheep. Those who choose to reject Him are the goats. You really need to read the Bible and not let man made philosophies keep you away from believing in the Gospel of Jesus Christ!
@@eiontactics9056 John 6:44 "No man can come unto me unless my Father who sent me draws him" Ephesians 2 says we are dead in sins but God made us alive. When God makes us alive spiritually then we can have faith in Jesus. Jesus said, "the flesh profits nothing" you have to be made alive, born again to come to Jesus. Read your Bible closely and quit with the Arminian talking points.
Wait, so what Pastor Macarthur is saying is, the Lord Jesus paid the full payment price for EVERY sin for EVERY sinner who lived, yet NOT EVERYONE IS REDEEMED? So, then, why do people define 'limited atonement' as 'Jesus didn't pay for every sin for every sinner' ?
Well because some people dont want to accept Jesus
@Jonathan Billings God made salvation possible for everyone but few people want to accept it or do it God's way. People want to follow their own way but that leads to destruction. You know, there are Christians who have their private interpretations. There are Buddhists who think they are right. There are theosophists. There are Judaisers who will kill you if you say they are wrong. If they killed Jesus, then they will certainly kill people who disagree with them.
Alice White you’re absolutely correct
@@alicewhitelhpw7517 If you really want to understand limited atonement, first you have to understand Total Depravity and Unconditional Election. Men can't choose to accept Jesus as their savior Romans 3 verse 10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
No one seeks God, He elects us before the foundation of the world Ephesians 1 verse 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
@Jonathan Billings Jesus died for the sins of the world - every single person who has ever been or will be.
That whosoever believes on Him, should not perish - Not all will believe.
Hell was never intended for man, it was prepared for the devil and his angels.
John 17:12
While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.
Footnote from NASB, Hebrew son of perdition: idiom for one destined to perish.
So from this we can see atonement is limited
@KTTGHMTJWYCBLAC Not all will believe because they will not.
If Dr. MacArthur is correct, then we cannot say to everyone that Christ died for you. That would be a lie. We could only say, Christ may have died for you.
No, we say Christ died for sinners and to believe on the LORD Jesus Christ.
Salvation is offered to all, but not all will receive. It says whosoever will, but this right to become his child is also not by our will but that of God. A paradox? Yes, but it is already resolved in the mind of God. In the same way the wrath of God and the love of God are reconciled in Christ. In the same way that we had no say in our physical birth, we also have no say in our spiritual birth. And yet it says whosoever will. How do we as humans wrap our heads around this from an earthly perspective? We can't. We simply rest in his promises.
John 1
9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God- 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
@ZoneFighter1 and yet it still states whosoever will may come, we have a will of our own to come to faith:
Revelations 22:17 The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!”
And let the one who hears say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life.
John 6
35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away"
The will of the Father and our will to come to faith exist simultaneously, despite the seeming contradiction. But God is a God of paradoxes. How can he be three in one? How could the Son experience separation from himself when the Father forsook him on the cross? How is can we have free will if our final destination is already determined ? These seeming contradictions remain true and are already resolved in the mind of the Creator.
Isaiah 55 8“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the Lord.
9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts
@@votivespark I dont get it
All will be well:
"As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive ... God [will] be all in all." (1 Cor. 15:22,28)
Also see: John 12:32, 17:2, combination of (John 3:35, 6:37), Rom. 5:18-19, 8:19-21, 11:32,26, 14:11 , 1 Cor. 15:22,28 , Eph. 1:10, Phil. 2:10-11, 3:21, Col. 1:20, 1 Tim. 2:3-6, 4:10, Titus 2:11, 1 Pet. 4:6, 1 John 2:2, 4:14, Rev. 5:13, 15:4, 21:5,24-25, 22:2, combination of (Rev. 22:1,14-15,17a,17c), Psalm 22:27,29, 65:2-3, 145:10a, Isa. 25:6-8, 45:22-25, 57:16, Lam. 3:22,31, Ezek. 16:53,55, Mal. 3:2-3, The Total Victory of Christ videos
Boom 💥 the best so clear. Jesus is King 👑
how do you know you're among the elect?
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that WHOSOEVER believes in him shall not perish but have ever lasting life."
The only gospel that will save any one is apostle pauls gospel 1 corthians 15,1-4 by Faith in the blood alone without works .if its of works its no more grace . With the heart one believes unto salvation.
Thank you for simplifying the gospel message 😊
@@joshl1984 your welcome . Robert Breaker is a awsome bible teacher. And he explains everything so much better . Have a wonderful day.🥰
Jesus didn’t die to save the world He died so that the world COULD be saved
Rip this page out of the Bible then.
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.
John 3:16-19
I’ve thought about this too and Acts 13:48 says this:
And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.
We don’t know who is appointed to eternal life so we share the gospel and the Holy Spirit opens hearts ....
I don’t fully understand myself but trust in God’s word and his sovereign will. It does fill my heart with gratitude and a desire to serve him faithfully and joyfully for what he’s done for me in Jesus.
Read it again...."For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, *that whosoever BELIEVES in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life* ....." Salvation is not universal, nor is it unconditional. The whole world does not believe and only those who believe (as in rely on Jesus) will be saved. This does not in any way mean that the work of Jesus is not able to save the whole world, it just means it's limited to only those who will believe and trust and rely on Jesus for salvation.
@@marjieyoung9570 Salvation is not universal BUT the offer clearly is 😇
We need to build our theology from this truth. Not to be laying our theology over it and try to make it fit.
Be blessed 🙌
@@seanvann1747 I'm not, "laying my theology over anything and trying to make it fit," Sean. I said Jesus is *able* to save the the whole world but His sacrifice is limited to those who believe. Clearly the offer is universal. I see no reason for your comment to me since you basically reaffirmed what I said....unless you're trying to move the discussion to Calvinism versus Armenianism, but why bother with that when both Calvinists and Armenians agree that salvation is not universal? I'm not going to change your mind and you're not going to change my mind about about Calvinism so why not stay on the topic of universalism and agree?
Marjie Young I agree and would say it’s all God’s doing- we love because He first loved us. It’s very humbling, knowing you were chosen not for any intrinsic worth of your own. He chose you to know him and glorify him. It gets me every time and causes me to fall down on my knees in gratitude.... I want to tell everyone how merciful, just and perfect He is and how Jesus was prepared to die a gruesome death so I could be reconciled to a holy God.
Beautiful Saviour, glorious Lord.
Right after Jesus says that God loved the World so that he gave His only begotten Son he says.. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. The whole world has atonement granted to them IF they receive it by faith alone!
Amen!
And if we believe God has a Son, and that we know they both 2 different people, both resurrected and that there is Family in Heaven. Salvation comes through traditional family. And understanding the Godhead.
"The atonement is limited. We all know that, right? The atonement is limited because people go to hell."
This is one, but only one, of the errors of Calvinism. Such an argument is easily deconstructed and revealed to be based, first of all, on semantic ambiguities in the meanings of words, and second of all, on a disregard for scriptural language.
An atonement is not a word used in English for anything other than a religious, theological meaning. So right off the bat, the table is set for polemics, not ordinary discourse. We need to key into the definitions, if they're made, and if they're not made, we need to wonder why.
Limited is a word we use in normal speech all the time, not too much of a problem, but let's still be thinking about what limited may mean in regard to anything that God does.
And then we have "hell," a big area of theological concern to say the least, but let's be thinking about why we need to go straight to hell, as it were, in a discussion about the atonement.
Atonement is the English translation of the Greek word "hilasmos" (Strong's 2434), found only twice, both times in first John, but usually translated "propitiation" or "atoning sacrifice." Propitiation is use for "hilasterion" (Strong's 2435) as well, a word found in Romans 3:25, and Hebrews 9:5, where it is translated "mercy seat." Going further with variations on the Greek, we find "hilaskomai" (Strong's 2433) which means "to be propitious, make propitiation for. We find it is Luke 18:13, where the aorist imperative passive tense is rendered "be merciful" and in Hebrews 2:17, where the present infinitive middle/passive is rendered "to make propitiation for," or "make reconciliation for."
Then we need to look at Matthew 20:28 and Mark 10:45. "...the Son of Man did not come to be served by to serve and give his life as a ransom for many." Here ransom is the Greek word "lytron" (Strong's 3083), found only in these two nearly identical verses. Strong's says it means "the purchase money for manumitting slaves, a ransom." Obviously "many" in this verse is highly important to this topic of limited atonement, but that's for another time.
So by these verses mentioned, it seems that "atonement" might not really be a New Testament concept, at least in a literal sense, and that the idea is usually translated by different words, propitiation and ransom. Every other NT reference to Christ's sacrifice is called just that, a sacrifice, along with several obvious figures of speech, "lamb" being one of them.
This should lead us to the Old Testament where we find the idea of atonement, even to the point of God creating a whole feast day called the "Day of Atonement," (Leviticus 23:27) which is still to this day practiced by Jewish people and considered by many to be their holiest feast.
And if we go back to Strong's, this time for the Hebrew, we find atonement is the English translation of "kippurim" (Strong's 3725), plural of "kippur," which Strong says, not surprisingly means "atonement." Uncontroversial, but not very helpful. So what is "atonement?" NAS Exhaustive Concordance says the word origin is the same as "kopher" (3725) which means "ransom, the price for a life." So likely atonement, propitiation, ransom all are similar ideas, indicating a price paid for something to appease a party that has been harmed, or is in need of being placated.
In light of all this, why don't the Calvinists say "propitiation is limited?" It means the same thing. Likely they avoid such language because it so patently contradicts 1st John 2:2:
"He is the propitiation, not for our sins alone, but the sins of the whole world."
Anyone who has thoughts on this subject, a very important one, please reply.
Our God is not the God of confusion, He means what he says. Limited atonement is Biblically consistent.
@@jasonsmith3202 Jason, brother, did you read my comment? I did my best, given the time and space limitations of a RUclips comment, to do a New Testament study on the topic of atonement. If God means what he says, that we have to go with the "prima facie" meaning of 1st John 2:2 which so clearly denies that the atonement is limited. I would appreciate some scriptural references for your opinion. I admit people going to Hell is a problem, as MacArthur points out, but it's only a problem for atonement if you hold to double predestination. The atonement can be universal, and its acceptance limited, isn't that a possibility, and more biblically consistent?
@@jasonsmith3202 "In Christ name I have wept over you as the Saviour did, and used his words on his behalf," O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, how often would I have gathered thy children together as hen gathereth her chickens under her Wings, and ye would not.... "Oh!God does plead with... everyone of you" Repent, and be converted for the remission of your sins... "
" No", says one strong-doctrine man"God never invites all men to himself.... "Stop sir....Did you ever read..." My oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready;come unto the marriage.And they that were bidden would not come....."Now if the invitation is...made (only) to the man who will accept it, how can the parable be true? The fact is...the invitation is free...." Whosoever will, let him come..."
Now... some of you (may) say that I was.... Arminian at the end. I care not. I beg you to... turn unto the Lord with all your hearts. - C.H.Spurgeon
@@ServusChristiPaulus : You haven't read Bible otherwise you wouldn't be cherry-picking Bible verses to justify your incomplete understanding of the Word of God.
Jesus said to Pharisees ( jew) that God blessed the tax collector, not Pharisees, God simply rejected Pharisees.
Jesus Christ says that on judgment day many will come to me claiming that we're your people but I'll reject them.
In one of his messages to the 7 churches, Jesus called Jewish worship places synagogues of Satan.
God himself says that he will give away most humans to their own debased minds, He says that he will sand strong delusion so they don't believe in the truth ( Gospel) and get perished.
If saving all was God's purpose he wouldn't have said that he will reject most humans.
So who's correct you or God?
@@jasonsmith3202 how do you know you're among the elect?
I know what the Bible says, but I'm gonna ignore the Bible for my own "logical" arguement. 1
Timothy 4:10 - That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.
1 John 2:2 - He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 John 3:8 - The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.
1 John 4:8 - Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.
John 1:29 - The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
There will be way more people in Heaven and way less in hell than people think . Mercy triumphs over judgement James 2 God has done and will do everything He can to get as many saved as possible in Christ !!
The bible says otherwise
What about when Jesus says many go to destruction and few find life?
He says way many more people in hell...Well I'm not surprised with his calvinistic preaching...so sad he is leading people astray....but he will be answerable
He definitely is not saying there is unlimited atonement. He was speaking of the world generally. Macarthur for sure, believes in limited atonement, for which he has spoken at length on at grace church via RUclips.
Jesus Christ died for the whole world! John Mcarthur preaches another Gospel! We limit the unlimited atonement of the Most precious Blood of Jesus Christ shed for all humanity, , by disobedience and lack of love for one another, and lack of hope in the endless fountain of mercy in God!
I respectfully disagree with your teaching on limited atonement in view of 1John2:2. This verse opens with a statement many find difficult to understand: "He is the propitiation for our sins." The Greek word hilasmos can be translated as "propitiation," "expiation," or "atonement."
All of these refer to settling, satisfying, or repaying a debt. In other words, Jesus is the one and only sufficient payment for the sins of humanity. Without this payment, we are left separated from God. Notice that verse 1 described Jesus also as our "advocate." This means that Christ not only speaks to God on our behalf, He pays our debt for us, as well.
John was clear that this power of Jesus' sacrifice was made available to all people of the world (1John2:15-17). This word "the world" resemble 1John2:15-17 the continuity of the word, the whole world. However, biblically this doesn't meant that every person will actually be saved. It does, however, mean that Christ's sacrifice was sufficient to pay the debt for anyone who comes to faith in Him (Revelation 22:17). There is a distinction between Christ's power to (potentially) save all people and those who actually come to Him for salvation. Thank you.
2 Peter 3:9 says that God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. God knew before creation who would be saved and who would not, but He absolutely did not decide beforehand who would be saved and who wouldn't. The invitation to come to Christ for salvation is available to every person for all time.
Lets say you interpretation is true.Then let me ask you...do you think that God is all powerful and sovereign?You must not if you think that man's "free will" can trump God's sovereign will.When people adopt a man-centered belief about salvation (i.e. it's man that chooses whether or not he is saved) then that's saying that God grace isn't powerful enough to draw someone to Himself.If God is so willing that any should perish then why have so many perished?
@@Brenda-qo4ko ruclips.net/video/WRS_ULKek0U/видео.html
@@Brenda-qo4ko They perished because they refused to believe in the only begotten Son of God.
And a final thought. Free will and predestination coexist! God knows what everyone will choose before they ever choose it. We exercise our free will, but God, thankfully knows all before we choose.
Thank you God for choosing us before we ever had the chance to choose You.
Whether or not you believe in the "L" of TULIP, Bro. John MacArthur's argument is false. He is saying that "L" is obviously true because not everyone gets saved. Baloney!
With the understanding that the Lord Jesus-Christ died for the sins of the whole world [John 3:16}, the majority of mankind does not become saved because of unbelief (John 3:18). They REJECT the precious blood that was offered for them. That is the reason for the condemnation (John 3:18), not that the provision for salvation was not made for them.
If you believe in "L" you will have to support it with another reason that the (poor) one given by Brother MacArthur.
@KTTGHMTJWYCBLAC Friend, what does that have to do with the topic of Limited Atonement. I know exactly the reason why I believe that Jesus Christ is LORD. I would be happy to share that reason. But what would that have to do with the topic? It is an ASTRONOMICAL statement to say that Christ-Jesus died only for the elect, and that is what I was addressing. If you believe the "L" to be true, say on, I am listening as to any Biblical support you may have for that position.
Brother McArthur's support was only that there are those who are and will be lost, and that is not a reason.
-- ms
My friend unbelief is a sin and Jesus paid for it.
@KTTGHMTJWYCBLAC Brother... I respectfully suggest that you are off-topic. The subject matter of this video by Bro. MacArthur, and of my reply, is the "L" of TULIP. The subject matter of your reply is the "U" of TULIP, Unconditional Election.
I would be more than happy, to respond to your question, (acutally already have done so) but wanted to point out what is specifically being discussed, *here.
@@aleczamora6993 Yes. and Yes. I believe this supports my position that the "L" of T-U-L-I-P is in error. Jesus is LORD.
2 Peter 2:1 --
"But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, *even denying the Lord who bought them* , and bring on themselves swift destruction."
Down goes limited atonement, and Calvinism goes down with it. It's Augustine and Calvin, not Bible.
Christ hadnt "bought" the false prophets and false teachers. He never knew them
Matthew 7:22-23
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied (false prophets) 👈in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? [23] And then will I profess unto them👉, I never knew you👈: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Arminianism and Calvinism. What's the big deal can we just be Brothers and Sisters in Christ.
There's no reason these topics shouldn't be discussed.
Yes, we can be brothers and sisters in Christ. But we must have unity based on doctrine. That's why the titles mean nothing; we need to take the doctrines derived from these titles and search and study the whole of scripture (2 Timothy 2:15, Acts 17:11) to get an answer. That takes more than listening to a quick sound bite or reading comments in a RUclips section. The Bible is a grand book of God's revelation and we need to study it again and again to get our theology right, particularly the doctrine of salvation. This is a big deal and it must be discussed in love without name-calling or straw man arguments. Let's bring the whole scriptures to bear on this subject and then let us accept what God says about it.
No because both of those views are based on false assumptions. Not based on scripture, but man's views because they put their gnostic twist on God's word. And then they gaslight people. God is not mocked. These false teachers will be paid back for what they have done.
So genuine question- Why is it not possible for Jesus to die to simply provide the way to be forgiven? I understand that only some will come to Christ but why is it not possible for God to allow creation to choose to follow his will, or deny it and perish by their own choice? In that scenario I believe God still knows who will choose him and who will perish but people aren't robots and God's hands aren't tied. I guess I'm just kind of fuzzy on the idea that if Christ died for all and only some came that he failed.
Because if Jesus provided the same amount of grace to everyone, allowing each an every person a chance for salvation but NOT actually accomplishing salvation for any particular person, then really it all comes down to each individual person either choosing right or choosing wrong. So in this scenario, the person who ends up in heaven made a good choice and the person in hell made a bad choice. The issue is that Scripture teaches that "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast."
Ephesians 2:8-9
If Christ died for everyone equally and yet some are in heaven and all else are in hell, then what was the distinction between the two camps? This make's man's decision the end-all-be-all, which would then allow for the man in heaven to be able to boast of his good choice, since it was all based on him and his "good decision". Also, the idea that man has "free will" doesn't allow for prophecy. God promised Abram that a great nation would be born from him, but let's say Abram told God "Nah, I'm good where I'm at" or maybe he divorced Sarai and got another wife or any other number of "free choices" he could have made that could have completely frustrated God's plans. But it is written that God's frustrates MAN'S plans, not the other way around.
@@douglasmcnay644 That just seems messy to me. Old Testament election of Gods prophets is not the same as salvation. Those chosen by God for a specific purpose cannot deny Gods purpose as it is his definitive will. This was necessary for the coming of the messiah and the plan of Salvation.Salvation is offered as a condition of grace. There is no reality where man can claim he is in heaven because of HIS choice. There would not be a choice without Christs accomplishing the payment on Calvary. It is like a person accepting credit for the creation of a vaccine because they received it. They didn't create it, or test it, or produce it, they just accepted it. The verse you quoted in no way leaves the impression that God forces the salvation of the saved. No one can boast, because we didn't do anything. We just accept the gift that was done for us. Free will does not affect the will of God because his plans are not thwarted. He gives us wiggle room in choices but his plan remains. I honestly believe, though well intentioned, Calvinism is an oversimplification of Salvation and Election.
Your not fuzzy at all. That was the traditional teaching of the Church. Calvinism was not introduced until the 5th century and was not widely taught until the reformation. Calvinist deeply deny man has real free will. It seems to suggest that if God does not predetermine all actions of all men (ie preprogram us like good little puppets) then He isn’t really sovereign. While Calvinist say God makes sure some go to hell so He can show His Justice, Wrath and Righteousness they fail to realize that by choosing to allow man a choice results in the same effect. Some will chose to deny Christ, thus not only can God show His full attributes, He can do so while still holding man responsible for his denial of salvation.
The fact that man is responsible for the fact he goes to hell yet goes their by God’s choice (according to Calvinist) is called a great mystery. They then make pious remarks that we can’t understand it because we are not God. The truth is there is no great mystery here. God holds us responsible because He has given us the opportunity to choose.
One does not become a Calvinist by reading the Bible. One becomes a Calvinist when someone else teaches him to become one.
People go to hell because they rejects the great salvation....for further "AW tozer on calvinism" in RUclips...he clearly explains. please watch brothers and sisters.... you will get clear understanding..
The word hell is a translation error my friend. The word you are thinking of is sheol (the grave) and Jesus already saved us from it (death). There is the lake of fire, that's not the same as hell, but even the lake of fire is symbolism and not literal fire. Think of it as a refiner's crucible where your sins are figuratively "burned" away to be made ready to be with God.
Tozer was a very good man and Abel preacher but he did not understand the doctrines of Grace
I remember John say in a sermon Jesus died for those who would abandon all self effort to be saved and trust in Him alone for salvation
He died for all. All means all. If He didn't die for all, He didn't die for you.
@ro6ti my point exactly I'm not going to rely on what I can do to be saved. I'm going to rely on what Jesus did to be saved
It’s false to say that if you believe Jesus died for all then all go to heaven. He is wrong that it must follow logically. It’s like saying that if you believe I bought someone a gift then you must believe that they accepted the gift. MacArthur often does this thing where he takes very well thought out theology based on scripture and just writes it off with a straw man sound bite.
I understand your point, but the gift analogy does not exactly relate in this way. God “buying a gift” externally and offering to a believer is not the same thing as God actually paying off that sin debt. If Jesus has paid a person’s sin debt, there is no reason for them to go to hell, because what are they being punished for? So if Jesus paid off the sin debt everybody, it logically follows that no person has a debt to be sent to hell for. For that to be the case, that would be their sin is punished twice, which makes no sense.
Also if a person’s debt is not paid until they’re saved then Jesus’ words “It is finished” on the cross would be nullified.
Yeah I agree with you
For years & years I thought I was a Calvinist, then out of the blue, I started thinking about, what is meant by the term, "limited atonement." Reading & thinking about limited atonement I started to feel uncomfortable with this theology. So I am not good enough to choose God out of my own thinking. Therefore, it is God who by His Grace chooses me, but those who God didn't choose will as identified by Mr MacArthur has said, goes to hell. Wow, this makes me cringe.... Was I ever a Calvinist? Taken to it's logical extent there is absolutely no need to evangelise. The folk who God has chosen will find their way into Glory by the fact that they have been personally chosen by Him.... Yes, I can see, that atonement must be limited & I do not support a universalist or pluralist position, but really this..."???"
God uses us to reach those that he has chosen, simple. As far as atonement, who's sins are ultimately atoned for? Everyone or just born again believers?
@@stevehardwick1578 the elect exactly this is why Christ died for the world but not necessarily every single person
Christ died for all who would ever live who would eventually believe in Him that are in this world, not all of humanity.
The bible would disagree with you.
@MinorSingingAirhead you misinterpreted the bible. The whole world is a general term for humanity not every individual human being.
@MinorSingingAirhead you are implying that Jesus failed because Judas Iscariot went to hell, so did many that are in hell right now. Your theology is flawed
MacArthur's misunderstanding that the atonement equates with salvation is not his worst misunderstanding. Atonement is involved in salvation and it is necessary for salvation but it's not the equivalent.
Romans 5:10 begins with, "For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son,"
At this point the soul is not yet saved, even though propitiation was made for his sins in atonement, or reconciliation. Said propitiation was not made only for our sins, but for the sins of the whole world - universal atonement. I John 2:2.
Back to Romans 5:10, "much more"
There's more to it than the atonement
Continue with Romans 5:10, "being reconciled,"
At this point the soul is still not saved. Who was reconciled, by the way? "To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world." World - every inhabitant on the earth throughout time.
Let's finish Romans 5:10 - "we SHALL BE SAVED by his life." Capitalization for emphasis. Please re-read eight times.
Include I Cor chapter 15 in your consideration and you'll see it's the resurrected life.
I Cor 15:17 "And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins."
During the three days and three nights between the crucifixion and the resurrection, there were no souls saved.
Christ offered himself as a substitutionary sacrifice for all, it pleased God to save them that believe. Christ paid the sin debt for the unsaved to, but they are condemned for unbelief - as per John 3:18.
Notice he didn't tell you that he believes no one has the free will to believe on Christ. He believes God chooses who he saves and who goes to hell. That's not biblical.
Exactly. This view contradicts the nature of God.
@@blackshadow3132 Calvinist can never reconcile Leviticus 19:5 KJV.
"And if ye offer a sacrifice of peace offerings unto the Lord, ye shall offer it at your own will."
We have free will to take Christs' sacrifice as an offering. The Bible even tells us in context with salvation. We are to use our free will to accept Christ.
You didn't choose God. God chose you. He draws you to him.
@@abuelb John 12:32 KJV
"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me."
Looks like all men are drawn. Everyone has an opportunity to believe on Christ.
@@lucashack5318 no, not all men are drawn. Only those chosen before the foundation of the world. And that is mind blowing.
0:30 yes we believe in limited atonement if we define it differently from how most Calvinists define it. This is why this theology is difficult to pin down, because they define these terms differently all the time, “moving goalposts.”
If you mean limited atonement means Calvary effectually saves some and makes a way for all, sure, though this is not what Calvinists mean typically with L.A. (This is what we usually mean by universal atonement) You do not have to believe “All are saved” to be logically consistent because the blood which was universal in scope is applied limitedly to those foreknown. (Universal atonement w limited or specific application)
If you mean limited atonement saves some and makes a way only for those whom it would apply, you have “limited atonement” as usually inferred.
Universal atonement and universal salvation are NOT the same because it neglects the aspect of application.
Amen. God is sovereign. Thank you, Lord Jesus, for your grace and mercy and for saving a sinner like me. 💗
how do you know you're among the elect?
@@blackfalkon4189
This is how I know I am among the elect: When I felt the presence of God convict me, I said "Yes, Lord, I want to be holy, I want to be regenerate, I want to cast off sin, follow you and walk in holiness." How about you?
@@BornAgain490 but that is still not proof or even good evidence. remember former devout preachers like Dan Barker. and above all remember the devil himself is the master deceiver cf. *2 Corinthians 11:14* for all you know this was not the Holy spirit, but another far less benevolent spirit at work, so again I ask *how* do you really know you're among the elect and not just among the deluded?
> and another question is, how will you react IF you find out on the day of judgement that you're not among the elect? will you be angry at God or just sad (gnashing of teeth). I ask this because RC Sproul himsellf was asked that question, and he actually had the courage to answer
@@blackfalkon4189
I know R. C.'s answer; it was complete and consice, and I don't think R. C. would mind, so I'll adopt it as my answer.
Each and every one of us are worthy of hell, I certainly know I am. I stand on the promises of God for my salvation, not that I am working for my salvation by standing on HIS promises, or that I am worthy of salvation because I claim HIS promises,, but only by God's sovereign grace through my faith, my trust, and my rest on the finished work of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ crucified, died, buried, resurrected and ascended. It is by grace alone through faith alone in Jesus Christ alone that I am saved.
I've answered you twice. Your turn to answer me. How do you know you are among the elect saved?
@@BornAgain490 ah but how can you tell if anyone even yourself are a true believer? because if you'd seen *Dan Barker* in his early days as a devout fiery Southern Baptist street preacher you'd have sworn he was a believer (and you believe in OSAS Once Saved Always Saved right?)
as for me the question's irrelevant because I believe in a just G.d instead (not some french sect) by virtue of our inherent sense of morality and the fact that said sense of morality is of divine origin cf. *Genesis 1:27*
btw you still didnt answer the question. I'll ask an easier one: if in the end it turns out you're not 'elect', will you still accept G.d's decision or will you rebel instead?
4 For we know, brothers loved by God, that he has chosen you, 5 because our gospel came to you not only in word, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction. You know what kind of men we proved to be among you for your sake. (1 Thessalonians 1:4-5, ESV)
These believers came to faith not by their free will decision. They didn't convict themselves. If Jesus died for every single person why doesn't the Holy Spirit convict every single person and bring them to faith?
They believed, because they were elected (1 Thess 1:4) and because they were elected before time God called them (1 Thess 2:12)
1 John 2:2
Berean Study Bible
He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
John 3:15
King James Bible
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Christ's atoning sacrifice is the same for 1 or 1 hundred billion. His death on the cross.
Please come as a child to the Word, let Christ receive you to the Truth/Himself.
Be blessed my brothers and sisters 🙏
If He died for everyone then no one would be in hell. He died for a particular people, His elect. Eph.ch.1, ch.2, Romans 9, the whole Bible.
@@tomw6271 Just because Jesus died for all doesn't mean all will be saved.
The same price was paid by Christ if one was to be saved or 100 billion.
His life.
2 Corinthians 5:15
For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for ALL, therefore all died; and He died for ALL, that they who live should no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf.
1 Timothy 4:10
For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of ALL men, especially of believers.
Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to ALL men,
Here's a great short clip hope you enjoy
ruclips.net/video/DKqXd8tJBp4/видео.html
Be blessed my brother 🙏
Revelation 3:5 (Lukewarm Christians)
Matthew 7:21-23
John 15:1
Hebrews 15:6
Hebrews 6:4-8
Hebrews 10:26-31
1 John 3:6
Galatians 5:4
2 Peter 2:20-21
I know many.. many... many.. that struggle with this topic. I do not. Thankful one day we will ALL THE ANSWERS. Not just to this but, to everything. 👏
The answer is already in the bible.
Why struggle? People struggle because the topic is flawed already! Some people hold to gnostic ideas and think the atonement saves... when nowhere in the Bible does it ever say that! The atonement was necessary, but His Resurrection is what saves. So, the atonement is offered to all men... but you have to receive it in order to be Saved. Meaning, the free gift of salvation is offered to all, but only those who accept the free gift will benefit from it.
It's a lot easier to make those points when you need not defend them against an alternate perspective.
Can't argue with Scripture
Exactly! Calvinism is a completely different religion and they reject the Gospel of Christ! They don't know God... they make up a false shallow evil controlling God instead, but think they actually glorify God by doing so. It is really sad.
@@eiontactics9056 While I am not Calvinist and greatly dislike the teaching it is disingenuous to say there are not good and godly men who hold to at least a limited form of Calvinism. God has chosen to greatly use several men who held to this teaching (at least in part). You do not have to have perfect theology to be saved from your sins and Calvinist preach the same Gospel we do even if they believe it functions differently under the hood, if you will forgive the idiom.
@@SaneNoMore No... they literally do not have a Gospel to preach and they do not believe in the Gospel of Christ. There is mostly bad news in Calvinism. The good news in real Biblical Christianity is that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world so that we all might be saved because God loves us. Calvinists do not believe in the same Jesus, God or Gospel. They are not Christians. They are Calvinists. It is a whole different religion, just like Mormonism and JWs are... the religion just masquerades as "Christian" because it is a tool used by Satan to destroy Biblical Christianity from within.
Those Calvinist "preachers" that you think God uses are what Apostle Paul says are "accursed" meaning damned by God and he says it twice. This isn't something to mess around with.
Galatians 1:8-9
King James Version
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
JOHN 3:16 WHOSOEVER BELIEVES, WHOSOEVER. PLEASE DON'T TWIST THE SCRIPTURE. YOU SHOULD KNOW BETTER.
This does not apply universally. Study it carefully. You are misinterpreting the verse.
It's not limited. It's for whoever believes. Each person has his own will to "believe".
@@jmtz9957 those whosoever are the chosen since the foundation of the world.
Pastor MacArthur is confusing Christ's death and the work of atonement. Christ died for the whole world ("whosoever"), which is an indefinite group of people. Christ's death atones for a definite/limited group of people, which is whosoever believes.
Christ died for everyone, but it atones for the people who believe.
Christ dying for everyone does not mean He failed because He meant to cover the sins of all but only covered some, because in the same way the Day of Atonement lamb died for the general people of Israel (each year there would be different amounts of people and sins committed in Israel but just one lamb required), Christ's death makes atonement available for everyone and has no numerical limit/value.
This guy is taping into strange fire. How is the ATONEMENT limitED? That would imply that GOD is a GOD to show partiality GOD knows those would/ will believe. Don't stir confusion. People have enough to deal with at the moment. This is not TRUTH!
It is the truth, but you cannot receive it without Gods sovereign grace, "A man can receive NOTHING except it be given him from Heaven" Jn. 3:27
“For I have told him that I am about to judge his house forever for the iniquity which he knew, because his sons brought a curse on themselves and he did not rebuke them. 14 And therefore I have sworn to the house of Eli that the iniquity of Eli’s house shall not be atoned for by sacrifice or offering forever,” (1 Samuel 3:13-14).
The question is that if Jesus bore the sin of everyone who ever lived, then why is the house of Eli’s sins never to be atoned for? (1 Sam. 3:13-14).
Jesus said in John 10:15 that he laid his life down for the sheep. Furthermore, said in John 10:26 said that people did not believe because they are not his sheep. The argument goes that if Jesus lays his life down for the sheep and there are people who were not his sheep, then he did not lay his life down for those who are not his sheep.
It is Truth. Right out of God's Word.
This is Truth.
Agree. Jesus paid for all the sins of the world. The only way you miss salvation in Jesus is by unbelief, failure to believe in what Jesus did for you personally.
The Bible does not say Jesus's atonement is limited. It is available to all who show faith in God and Jesus. Reformed theology tends to ignore that God and man are to have a relationship and everything is often presented as one sided where God does all and no room for man to choose or act otherwise. Limited is like saying there are only 5 gigs of data for your phone this month contrasted to there is unlimited data for your phone this month but you only used 5 gigs of it.
For those who were choosen before the foundation of the World ~ Limited
Here are two verses that confirm your statement in the opposite manner. Twice we read in the Book of Revelation that there are those that are NOT written in the book of life before/from the foundation of the world.
and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain. Revelation 13:8 ESV
he beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to rise from the bottomless pit and go to destruction. And the dwellers on earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will marvel to see the beast, because it was and is not and is to come. Revelation 17:8 ESV
Don't mixed Unconditional election with atonement, read your bible and believe in Total Depravity, then you will not fall into the error of Limited Atonement and be ashamed at the day of reckoning.
MacArthur, much respect to you sir. I’ve learned so much from your teachings but please tell me what makes sinners guilty of unbelief? Isn’t it true that they are guilty of unbelief it they don’t believe the gospel, that He died and rose again for the forgiveness of sins? If so, they are guilty, remain condemned.
If they believe what you teach, the atonement is limited and not for them then they believe truth. So they wouldn’t be guilty of unbelief. They’d be believing what is true in that the atonement was limited and not for everyone.
Scriptures teach us He died for both the elect and the whole world, making the whole world guilty in their sin if they don’t believe the truth about Christ.
The atonement can be for the whole world and yet the Father still choose whom He wills to save. Christ did satisfy The Father’s requirement for sin.
Disappointing and amazingly simplistic, as much Calvinist doctrine is! I love and respect John as I did his dad, Dr Jack MacArthur. But I'm sure that Jack would be as disappointed as I am. The assumption is that either Calvinism's hyperdefining of doctrine is true or God who is sovereign has to save everyone. That is a false dichotomy. "[Christ] is the payment in full for our sins, and not for ours alone, but for the whole world." (I John 2:2).
"Many are called but few are chosen." [Matthew 22:14] Only those who are saved are predestined, and that is "to be conformed to the image of Christ." [Romans 8:29] Foreknowledge and predestination are not the same thing! The doctrine of Divine Sovereignty does not mean that God is obligated to do what you or I assume that HE must do based on our ignorance. Faith is grateful acknowledgement and acceptance of who God is and what God has done and what He will do in accordance with the revelation of His will. Faith is NOT works. Duh!
The message is that NOBODY has to go to hell, but the gift must be accepted by genuine faith. If God is willfully giving everyone every opportunity to be saved as though they might be willing, that is HIS business, and HE is no less sovereign for doing it that way. That's why God's grace is amazing. Noone born in sin HAS to go to hell. HE makes sure that the opportunities are there so there is no excuse. [Romans I:16-25] And Jesus Christ is LORD and King and Saviour regardless of our good or bad choices. But let's not blame God for our distractions and flaws. And no, John will not lose his salvation. 🤓
Anti Mechanistic - God chooses the saved. Jesus saves. The Holy Spirit dwells in the saved. Those who are not saved go to Hell.
Election does not mean salvation. Election gives you access to the truth. Israel is Gods elected, but they were all not saved. They went into idolatry and were scattered. Limited atonement is true because everyone can be saved, but only the ones that make the choice to follow Jesus. Faith is a free gift, not a work. Why do Calvinists demand that its a work to accept Jesus, but its not a work for them.
Shocking from MacArthur. A total misrepresentation of what non Calvinists believe. Jesus died for everyone and it is up to the individual's free will to choose or reject His mercy. The comment 'Limited Atonement is totally offensive.
If you believe Jesus died only for the elect, you believe in a limited atonement because the scope is limited to true believers. If you believe Jesus died for all individuals but only some are saved, you believe in a limited atonement because the power of the atonement is limited by the wills of men (we might also ask what you even mean by “atonement” if it can apply to people who’s sins will never be imputed to Christ and who will burn in hell for eternity… especially since the imputation of sins is the very _definition_ of atonement). If you believe the atonement is neither limited by power or scope, you’re a universalist, a Christian heresy.
The fact that you’re offended by the phrase “limited atonement” just reveals how stuck you are in your traditions and not in being committed to following the Bible wherever it leads us.
By the way, do you mind finding a single passage in the Bible that says man has a “free will,” a phrase which originated in secular Europe following the reformation? If you can (you can’t), maybe you could explain how this one passage (which doesn’t exist) should be accepted over the countless passages that show human beings without regeneration cannot please God, cannot have saving faith, cannot love God, etc.?
What do we do with verses like John 3:16 if limited atonement is what God meant?
@KTTGHMTJWYCBLAC i realize that, it was the God so loved the whole world I didnt clearly mention. The whole world seemed to not be limited. I admit Im confused on this issue. I am not a Calvinist so Im not familiar with those perspectives.
@@johnjumper7066 In context when John wrote "the world" he meant Jews and Gentiles - not everyone who did, does and will live.
@@Brenda-qo4ko So if that is true, then, why did Jesus include, "whosoever"? Thats right, those were Jesus words, spoken in the "third person". Get a "Red Letter" bible if you are not convinced.
@@petratical The word for word translation of the Greek phrase that is translated as "whosoever believes" or "whoever believes" is "the believing ones". All that part of the verse is saying is anyone who believe will not perish. It says nothing about who those people will be or who can/will believe. It's just a brute fact - all who believe will be saved.