It's not the greatness of your faith that saves, but the greatness of the One in whom you believe.. The One who was lifted upon the cross that all who look to Him will have eternal life. The Lord Jesus Christ says "come unto Me.."
Great sign. However you can go directly to Him and pray yourself. If you have the desire than what that means is that you are His and called. No one who is not has the desire. The fear of God is not in the uncalled therefore also have no desire for it and His will have the Holly spirit in them to help them move in a direction that we are incapable of doing in our fallen self. We must search our hearts unlike the modern fallen church will ever do. Are we in it for our feeling good, prosperity or is it for what He did for us.? Are we repenting of our sin? are there signs of change? if there is no change of desire or change of actions in our lives there is no proof of a God living inside of us. For it is for all to KNOW. And how do we know? the change and repentance. What is more important in our lives? The Sin that we love or the love to follow Him. It is a very small gate in which those who are His will go through. The word Christian has become a sales word and a popular social media corporate money maker. Be careful who you follow.
The Gospel that saves is Paul's Gospel. He was given the final revelation for this present Age of Grace. The Twelve preached another Gospel that was given to and for the Jews. They preached faith plus works. Paul disputed with them constantly for forcing non Jew converts to obey the law of Moses. Paul insisted the Gentiles were saved by Grace apart from works of the law. Paul also teaches that people who come to Christ through his Gospel are no longer considered Jew or Gentile. Paul taught we are all one in Christ. The Twelve did not preach that message. God withdrew the message given to the twelve because Israel rejected it. God will cause the message the twelve preached to be preached again during the tribulation which takes place after the Body of Christ is removed from the earth. Bottom line: you can save yourself a lot of confusion by reading Romans to Philemon because in them is the Gospel that saves. Romans 10:9-10; 1 Corinthians 15:1-5; Ephesians 2:8-9
Yes Shirley... but was the CONTEXT of that passage the "wheat" in the church or was the context the "tares" in the church? You cannot hope to understand the MEANING of a passage unless (1) you first discern the context and (2) your doctrine harmonizes with ALL RELATED Scriptures. ------------------ Jesus was clear [Mat 13] the church consists of both many unsaved "tares" (sown by Satan) and relatively few saved "wheat/sheep/saints/elect" (sown by God). To one group (the wheat) He promises eternal life to the other group (the tares) He promises eternal torment. ----------------- www.5thkingdomofheaven.com/chapter-1
Is true at the end of the day only the Lord knows who truly accepted Him as The Lord of their life’s. No one knows for sure but only Him. All we can do is preached the Gospel to all, hoping that they might be saved. Sleep like a Calvinist, Preach like a Arminian. That’s where I’m resting on.
Thats incorrect. It is for all to know without doubt. That what you said is unbiblical and sounds like a particula religion that claims to be christian however are anti christian with everything they do.
@@rubessumtertius6358 yes true what he says that nobody knows thats the koran. muslim. they dont know and do good good work. pray to mecca and hope allah saves them 😅
@@rubessumtertius6358 THE SALVATION OF THE LORD GOD *IS* A PARTICULAR MIRACLE - MEANT ONLY FOR THE ELECT OF THE LORD GOD, OR WAS CHRIST JESUS HIMSELF A LIAR???!!! CHRIST SAID; *"For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins."* {MATT. 26:28 KJV}
@@rubessumtertius6358 I'll be way less charged than the other guy who replied to you. But yes I believe he's right, only God knows who accepted him and we must preach the gospel to everyone. In Romans 9 Paul talked both of predestination (Romans 9:6-29) and his personal anguish and wish that the Jewish people would accept Christ, even he wishes he could take their punishment so they would be saved (Romans 9: 2-5)
@@jehovahuponyou While only the elect will be saved, did God meant salvation only for the elect of God? What about verses like John 3:16? God love the world of the elect? 1 John 2:2 he is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world?
1 John 2:1-2: "My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father-Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."
The "whole world" is made up of the "elect" and "non elect". If everyone was saved, then there would be no one in hell and everyone would be in heaven, which we know is not true. Not everyone will be saved. Only the elect who were chosen (predestined) before the beginning of time will be saved. Romans 8:30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
I wouldnt go as far as ever calling him pure, he is a very honest sinner and there is purity and truth in that from above indeed, in the new creation. It is good we see ourselves as clean by the blood of Christ, dead to sin but we must live with the old nature until the end. I personally wouldnt want anybody calling me pure… i know how easily sin can grip me. God bless you brother or sister in Jesus
I’m glad it’s a problem to Calvinists. It’s not a problem to me. I accept Scripture. It clearly states that he died for all. Those who accept Christ sacrifice for their sins are saved. Some are saved and unfortunately many a lost because they did not believe.
Right. I’d agree with Calvinists on most things, but this whole topic I do not. I think election and free will coexist in the same way I elected my wife and she accepted me of free will. Piper is solid on most things, but this is some incredible mental gymnastics. 🤸♀️
Christ died for the sheep, not for the goats. Goats don’t become sheep. A person who turns to Christ is not a goat that became a sheep, he was lost sheep found by the Lord and brought back to the fold.
no everyone can not believe in Jesus Christ because everyone is dead and the dead know nothing however God enlivens only those whom He predestined to be saved so that they will believe in Jesus Christ. The nonelect won't believe because God doesn't enliven them. So it appears as those everyone can be saved but truth is not everyone can be saved. Only the elect will respond because they are already His sheep even before they ever hear the gospel preached. As Jesus said "My sheep hear my voice" Not candidates to become His sheep but already are His Sheep.How can it be said that Christianity is the greatest love story ever told when for many more people than the saved it's the greatest horror story ever told.!!
@@davidaucoin7317 If you really believe this and preach this, then you’re in a cult and you’re doing Satan’s work for him. I mean, can you even tell me you’re saved, and have assurance of salvation?
@@davidaucoin7317 Living people are physically dead? That's a new one. I think maybe you misunderstand they word "dead." It's referring to spiritually dead. For instance, an unbeliever is "dead in sin," while a believer is "dead to sin." It doesn't mean they're physically dead. That aside, scripture says anyone can be saved. I'm really curious why you would argue against God's word like this. Do you not want people to be saved? Why would anyone want people to suffer in hell eternally? And if you think God would determine people to hell, why would you ever think a good God would do such a horrible thing to one sinner, but not another sinner?
1 John is one of the best examples of who is a Christian and who is not. Christ said, "You will know them by their fruits" I would like to encourage others to study over that book.
When the Bible says Jesus is the SAVIOR of the WORLD that's exactly what it means. He died for every single human being. The sad thing is that not everyone will receive the gift of salvation and because God knows this in his foreknowledge because Bible says he knows our hearts, that is how how God knows in advance who is saved and who is not.
@@firstname713 exactly… babies who die in the womb…. Toddlers who die without true faith and belief in Christ. How do we reconcile that they ALL go to hell. I believe that God has chosen some as his elect.
So that whoever believes, anyone cannot just believe on their own decision, but believed because the Father changed their hearts in order for them to believe.
The way he died for the non-elect is that anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life. The non-elect used to be EVERYONE; then Jesus died and whoever ends up believing in Him is the elect.
Sean Charrie I don't think that's what he meant. That's Arminianism. The elect are the elect by God's eternal choice. They are chosen in him before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4). They will believe at the effectual calling. We are responsible to fully and freely preach the gospel to all because we don't know who the elect are, only God knows. The question was, "in what sense did Christ die for the non-elect?" This is a question on limited atonement. Jesus laid down his life for his sheep (John 10:11,16,26-28) not those who are not his sheep. Other texts say Jesus died for all (1 John 2:2). If Jesus only lays down his life for his sheep and is a propitiation for the sins of the whole world, in what sense did he die for the non-elect? Most reformed would say the death of Christ is sufficient for all, but is only efficient for the elect.
Richard Statham I don't know. this is complicated, I'm still deciding what I believe. The Bible seems to have many more passages that point to Jesus' atonement being a personal choice, which can be influenced by God. It's just, if it has nothing to do with us, why is the Bible constantly telling us what to do in order to please God, walk with God, work out our salvation, etc.? I like what someone else here said "God is not the author of confusion." This really is a doctrine that bends toward confusion...I know God's ways are higher than ours, though. I'm not sure. Hopefully knowing which is true isn't all that important for our lives with God here on Earth.
Many of you are missing that Christ came to conquer sin, all sin "the seed of the woman will crush the head of the serpent" . So all sin, past, present and future was dealt with and defeated at the cross n regards to God being satisfied. The only thing that will send you to hell is rejection of Christ as the son of God.
Right and anyone can become part of the elect through Christ. It's called a miracle of God and our limited minds don't get but it is clear that God would have all men to be saved. Nobody knows anything as they ought to at this time and that's biblical.
Mike McGregor... that notion is so naive it is PAINFUL to see. You are not teaching the Gospel that men pay for their sins (as the Bible teaches), Rather, you teach "another gospel" that says men pay for ONE SIN of not believing. You do not even understand the "milk" of the Gospel child... you have no hope of ever understanding the "meat" of the Gospel. But that is not new... Christ clearly taught [Mat 13] that the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven" (the church) consists of both many unsaved "tares/goats" (sown by Satan) and relatively few saved "wheat/sheep/saints/elect" (sown by God). To one group (the wheat) Christ PROMISED eternal life. To the other group (the tares) Christ PROMISED eternal torment. -------------------- You cannot even hope to understand the MEANING of a passage unless/until you FIRST discern the CONTEXT of the passage. ----------------------- www.5thkingdomofheaven.com/chapter-1 -------------------------
To believe that multitudes are "non-elect" even before they were born and will spend eternity in torment, AND at the same time say that you believe "God is Love", ... is a nonsensical contradiction that negatively reflects on the character of God.
@Ben Jones then under that premise they won't enter the kingdom because God didn't want them/elect them/provide salvation for them, not because they didn't believe.
Christ Atonement - Universal intent, Universal extent but Limited application. The salvation gift was purchased for all but received by those especially who believe.
I’m just going to live my life on my terms. If I’m in the elect there’s nothing I can do to change that. If I’m not there’s nothing I can do to change that
@@Leonugent2012 I disagree. You have been given truth and when you ask God to give you belief, He will. If you refuse what you know, then you are rejecting truth which means you are rejecting the gift of Jesus
If God so loved the world , he must have done something for the whole world. For me the most logical interpretation is that Jesus' sacrifice Is enough for the sins of every man
And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when Christ[b] had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. 14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified. Hebrews 10:11-14
I'm a chosen and I believe anyone could be saved if they turn to Yahweh I'm not deep in calvanism bcus I find it harsh to only think only chosen ppl going to heaven I feel God wants to save everyone he loves us all
Romans 9-11 has a very happy ending: "God has consigned all to disobedience, that He may have mercy on all. … From Him, and through Him and to Him are all things." (Romans 11:32,36a)
He died for those who believe in Him, Ephesians 1:19 and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, we have been saved through faith, and not of ourselves, you need to read Ephesians, this will explain, those who cannot see will not be saved.
The answer is there. But there’s a much easier way of answering that question: I’ll help you all out: NOTHING. No benefit to the non-elect. But here’s the twist: it helps US, BELIEVERS to share the gospel to the world because we do not know who is elect. Because at the end of the age, EVERY knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father… We should not wonder as believers, we believers are commanded in Matthew to preach the gospel to all the nations. But it’s VERY CLEAR in Romans that we have been Chosen and Predestined. How blessed we are the Elect! In summary, it doesn’t benefit the non-elect, but it 1.) gives glory to God; 2.) it makes us (the elect) appreciate our salvation so much more!!!
Yes, God created some 'to the vessels of destruction' sadly, only because he knew that they would reject him. He died for the whole world, people have a choice to choose him or not. The only thing we can blame him for, is that he gave us a choice, he did not create robots or puppets. Some people, like the fallen angels, decided to reject him, but he created them. Because he knew everething, even your next thought, he could know that this child, even when he loved him so much, would choose to reject him. We want to blame God for everything, just choose him. If you struggle to believe, tell him, spend time with him, cling to him and don't let go until there is a breakthrough. HE LOVES YOU AND WAIT FOR YOU.
Pastor john did a great job explaining just how merciful and graceful God truly is. Unlike other Calvinist preachers who think God predestines people to hell. Its not Gods choice or even his will that any should perish, but his will is that all should come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.
Or Peter is writing to elect persons who have been made alive. 1 Peter 1: 1-2 "Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To God’s elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, 2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance." He even talks about being sure or confirming your "Calling" & "Election" in 2 Peter 1. So, since he's writing to saved people, and the verse you cited from 2 Peter 3 where he's talking about the day of the Lord - it's very reasonable that Peter is indeed speaking of the Lord's delay, that he hasn't returned - not because He wants every person saved, but that all the elect be gathered in Him first and non of them perish (by Him returning before hand).
@Sentionaut 7.8 He doesn't want everyone to be saved? Wouldn't that make God sadistic. Since God is sovereign. He created hell, and its his judgment and wrath. God who is Holy wouldn't create a place of torment just to create people and continue to create people just to send them to hell. If Peter was talking about just the elect, he wouldn't have been more specific. God literally wants all to be saved. 1 Timothy 2:4 Who (God) desires all people to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.
@@sportsfanforever100 If God's intention was to save everyone then everyone would be saved. You can call it sadistic but I just accept that God is God & He does as He pleases & everything He does is righteous. Man, on the other hand, is sinful & dead in trespasses & sins - deserving of the wrath of God & eternal punishment. But God, by His grace chose many to be in Christ before the foundation of the world. Check Ephesians, Romans 8-9, 2 Thessalonians, etc. Read 1&2 Peter again too. 1 Peter begins addressing the "elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father". "To God's elect ....who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God". And if God is sovereign, then He has the right to choose some to eternal life & not others.
@Sentionaut 7.8 Again God wants ALL to be saved.1 Timothy 2:4, 2 Peter 3:9, John 3:16. There is not any sort of context that shows all to have a different meaning. If God wanted peter to talk about the elect only he would have. God's not going to force anyone to be saved. Again, that would make him sadistic not to save everyone if he did. Who do we get our morals from? You can CHOOSE to ignore that calavnistic teaching makes God out to be sadistic. People who are saved can say we are apart of the elect because we believe in Jesus Christ's work and resurrection and not because we were randomly chosen by God. God gave us a free will to acknowledge or deny him. God wants a relationship with everyone, but not everyone wants a relationship with God. He elected the Jews but yet not all jews are saved.
@@sportsfanforever100 Many people from all the world but not every single person of all time. 1 Peter 1, who was he writing to? If God wants all to be saved then He is failing. Context is important & essential. Proof texting isn't that helpful, read the whole letter & reread, that goes for me as well. Anything anyone tells you, no matter how long you've heard it or believed it, check it against the Bible & find out if that's really what it's saying. How do you explain Romans 8-9, Ephesians, John 10? We don't attach ourselves to Christ & say we are elect. We are elect because God chose us to be in Christ before the foundation of the world & you said yourself that God is sovereign. That means He controls all things, that He is sovereign over all things & that includes salvation. Christ didn't lay down his life for some possibility for salvation, he made an sacrifice for a particular people, those who God gave to Him (the elect), for their actual salvation. But, I've said enough. I leave it to you to check the scriptures & think it through. The chapters I mentioned & there are many others there for you. Grace & peace to you from God the Father & the Lord Jesus Christ.
@@robroy4058 I agree, he did know. So if God knew before the foundations of the world which people would never be saved, why do you think God created those people?
Reformed Theology is such a mess. They try to tell you that 1+1=5. John 3:16 says, "God so loved the WORLD..." If we can not be certain what "world" means then we have no hope of correctly understanding words like "predestined" or "elect." And if unconditional election is true, then a lot of beautiful babies are being born every day for no other reason than to burn in hell for all eternity. Finally, NO, I do not question God's sovereignty - what I question is the Calvinist perspective on God's character, which is not consistent with the Almighty portrayed by the whole of Scripture.
It’s like a generous donor who purchased tickets for every student at a particular school. The only condition is that each student has to stop by the donor’s house to personally receive the ticket before attending the concert. Undoubtedly, there will be many who for one reason or another fail to take advantage of this generous gift and miss out
But in your analogy , for it to explain Calvinism, the donor randomly will only give tickets to a select few and not because they asked but because the donor made them ask.
What you say makes sense, but that is not what most Calvinists say. They say the non-elect have absolutely zero ability to go pick up those tickets. They are not elect so there is no possible regeneration so they say. But yet rejecting Christ is 100% their fault. Does that make sense? The question is 100% rhetorical.
In the end, none of this matters. Fighting within the body of Christ makes us look bad. It's not a salvational issue and God's gonna do what God's gonna do regardless of what we think or theorise.
Jesus died for "His sheep" ---------------- The Bible is very clear [Mat 13] that the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven" (the church) consists of BOTH many unsaved "tares" (sown by Satan) and relatively few saved "wheat/sheep" (sown by God). ----------------- Moreover, Jesus PROMISES one group (the wheat/sheep in the church) eternal life But He PROMISES the other group (the tares/goats in the church) eternal torment. He also promises all those OUTSIDE the church eternal torment... Why is this "milk" of the Gospel "news" to you child? ---------------------- www.5thkingdomofheaven.com/chapter-1 ---------------------- BTW.... the Bible never says Jesus PAID the price for "everyone"... It says He paid for the "world" (meaning both Jew and Gentle) Many men lived and died without ever hearing about Jesus. ----------------------
Christ died just as fully for the ungodly as for the very elect. His blood covers all sin, it just has to be appropriated. He is a great God and Savior!
The word all Means all sorts of people Not confined to one race The jacob and esau story One saved one not Two thieves on cross One saved one not Two in a place One taken one left
Christ died for all Mankind. In doing so, God is also going to give His finally response and answer to sin and rebellion. First, through the Life and death of Christ upon the cross, and then through His resurrected Life living in and through saints who take up their cross daily. When is comes to the elect (and non-elect) or election, what is often overlooked is God Himself. He is the all Supreme God. There is no other. He is Love, but He is also Holy. He is full of grace and mercy, yet worthy and just to judge both the sin and rebellion out of all eternity. We see His completeness in Romans 9:13, “Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.” The Greek word for “hated” is miseō - meaning to detest (especially to persecute); to love less. But how can God love one, and love the other less? We must be careful that we don’t cast a slur on God’s Character and His Divine Attributes. One attribute that is often missing in Theological discussions is God’s Divine foreknowledge. God “foretells” while “foreknowing” what a man will or will not do when challenged with the revelation of His purposes. He knows everyone’s crossroad and their heart attitude, who will respond and who will reject or despise Him. God doesn’t predetermine this, but rather declares it as He views the beginning and the end as the same (being Omniscient). God knew that Esau would despise the birthright, and so, based on His Nature of Love and Holiness, He exercised His sovereign right of election. He hated Esau’s heart attitude and rejected him, it wasn’t the loss of Heaven, but of his inheritance (the Kingdom of God in type). Paul goes on to explain election in verses 19-24 using the potter and the clay. “…Shall the thing formed say to Him that formed it, Why have you made me thus? Has not the potter power over the clay…to make one vessel to honor, and another to dishonor?” The principle of Divine election is that God acts in mercy towards whom He will, and in judgment towards whom He will. Whether unto “honor” or “dishonor” rests upon God's sovereignty. This is based upon His Holy Love, always taking into account the heart reaction or response of man's will. God is never unjust, for “The LORD is righteous in all His ways, and holy in all His works” (Psa. 145:17). Regarding Esau, it was not only God exercising His sovereign right of justice, but of Him allowing Esau to refuse to avail himself to God’s provision of forgiveness. All this by His sovereign right of His mercy and compassion. As it was with Esau, so it is with us. The Lord knows all, and He is all we need to know. As to election and the elect in Rom. 9:10, “…the purpose of God according to election…” Vincent says, “The phrase signifies a purpose so formed that in it an election is made.” What many Theologians have done over the years is place the idea of “election” above all else, even God’s ultimate purpose of having a company of firstborn sons unto Himself. “For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brothers” (Rom. 8:29). “And He is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things He might have the preeminence” (Col. 1:18, 1 Cor. 15:20-23, Psa. 89:27). His ultimate purpose formed by the Godhead before time is seen in Eph. 1:4 “According as He has chosen us in Him before the foundation of the World, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love.” This purpose is Godly character. Therefore from among the children of Abraham according to the flesh, God made a selection of those who believed, because through faith character is formed. The result, “…that we might be partakers of His holiness” (Heb. 12:10). So too with us today, within the Church there are some who will live in Christ (their spirit born-again) according to their own self-centeredness, while others will press on to the high calling, taking up their cross (denying their right to self) and surrendering their lives (souls) unto God by faith. Yes, we are all hopeless without Him (Rom. 3:23, John 15:5), but how deep is His Love towards us all? The Father is desiring to see His Son walk the earth again both in and through a people for His glory (Col. 1:27, 2 Thess. 1:10) and will move Heaven and Earth to make this a reality to whom-so-ever is willing.
@KTTGHMTJWYCBLAC What was Jesus teaching in His parable of the wise and foolish 'virgins'? And, what is being taught by Esther approaching the king, knowing she would be killed, and instead a 'golden sceptre' is extended to her, as her heart was for her people's salvation? What does the LORD promise in 2Chron.7:14?
I get what Piper is tryna say but I still believe Yahweh wants all of us to be saved I'm a chosen myself and I don't want anyone to go to hell that's why I try to talk to everyone about Yahweh I talk to even the most coldhearted people bcus I had my own experience of hell and I don't want anyone to go there
@@Yahshuaismyeverything But most will go to hell. The Bible says few are saved. You are doing the right thing by preaching to all you can. Let God lead. Praise the Lord.
I didn't get to finish my comment. As I was saying, listening to all of these people's viewpoints, if I wasn't a Christian, I would be so confused, I think I'd just throw my hands up and forget about it all. I refuse to listen to anymore of other people's interpretations of God's Word. The best thing to do is to ask the Holy Spirit to reveal answers to any questions you may have about God's Word. No, a lot of people won't accept Jesus Christ but we all desperately need Him!!! I know I do!
It's pretty simple here - Saviour for ALL people of cause to anyone that especially believes, YES believe otherwise how are they saved? We all have a free choice to accept Jesus Christ as Lord and saviour by grace through faith only.
Only for those who would believe and repent and follow Him. He knew you before you were born. The vast majority of the population do not want Hin or anything to do with Him. He knows everything.
But according to Calvanism they cannot believe because God determined it and before they were even born God chose them to be damned in hell. Run from this doctrine from the pit!
We are not looking at all non believers. We are only looking at all people for whom the elect( chosen before the foundations of the world) have interceded for. No man can come unto me unless the Father who sent me draws him unto me. Whoever comes to me I will in no wise cast them out.
I understand. I to reviled against this theology until I decided to study it thoroughly to see for myself the inconsistencies. Get yourself a red letter bible and search where anywhere does God say anything about Free will. God knows everything. He knew you before the EARTH WAS CREATED. EVERY HAIR ON YOUR HEAD. CHRIST DIED FOR EVERYONE. YOU ARE CORRECT HOWEVER WHAT YOU ARE NOT SEEING IS THAT THE NARROW GATE IS JUST THAT. VERY NARROW. It is His creation that wants nothing to do with Him. What I went in to find wrong has shown me that it is very biblical and goes against the seeker friendly church where its about good music and feel good. Its serious enough to do it. I have sen several because of what I found do the research, and all of them found the same thing as I. God bless.
@@rubessumtertius6358 It seems you are saying the exact thing I wrote, It's up to the Individual if they find the NARROW PATH.... so many are going to Hell and Don't have a Clue... Thank you for a heartfelt response... 🤗❤🙏
Jesus Christ went to the cross and now lives to set sinful you free from death and hell. Repent and turn your heart to Him before it’s too late. If He calls your heart, say yes!
Yes, do not harden your heart when He calls you! He may increase the hardness of your heart if you do so. If you respond in faith, he can grow your faith! He will add to you with the measure you respond with. Be careful how you listen to his Word (meaning, listen carefully and take heed).
I am coming out of Calvinism... Honestly my faith feels renewed. Early in my question walk I was introduced to Calvinism so I assume that was always true and was never taught that there are alternative opinions and interpretations. Calvinist for 20 years
That’s unfortunate for your sake. I take the position from the scripture what Calvinism ( what we call it) teaches in LARGE part because no other teaching on the subject glorifies God as Calvinism does. In fact any other position dishonors the Father and Christ. I pray thatGod will lead you back to the truth.
Let me ask this question...In what sense did God create the non elect to be predestined to hell against their will. If you're elect that's fine. But how would you feel if you were non elect? Calvanism is unbiblical.
"Forgive them, for they know not what they do". Why would He say that about a bunch of unelected Romans that He knows will not be forgiven? What a butchering of John 3:16, the most straightforward passage in the Bible. Calvinism is perverse.
Aaron Frampton Remember bro, SO is a adverb... he so loved.... You must read verse 14 and 15 for context. Context will take you to Numbers 21. PS: I am not a Calvinist.
Perverse? That's a harsh and hurtful word and uncalled for. Glimpses of Calvinism and Arminianism are both shown in the bible. I believe Calvinism is the view from God of salvation and Arminianism is the human view of salvation. God of course knows who will be saved because He is God and knows all things. From the human perspective if we hear the gospel all can be saved if we believe.
God so loved the world (both Jew and Gentile) that whosoever believes.... But the Bible teaches [Jn 6] that NO MAN can come to Jesus unless the Father FIRST "draws" them and ALL MEN the Father draws "shall come", and Christ loses NONE of His sheep. ---------------- When His disciples realized that Jesus taught salvation by "election" then MANY of them immediately abandoned Him [John 6:65-66]. Now... WHY did those disciples abandon Him? Because they (like you) wanted a salvation plan where THEY had control. ----------------- The Bible is clear in other places that God HATED some men before they were born... do you pretend Jesus PAID for their sins? The Bible teaches that God CREATED some men to be "vessels of destruction" while He created others to be "vessels of mercy" [Rom 9] Do you pretend Christ PAID for the sins of the "vessels of destruction"? Hardly. --------------- Christ clearly taught [Mat 13] the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven" (the church) consists of both unsaved "tares/goats" (sown by Satan) and saved "wheat/sheep/saints/elect" (sown by God). Do you really believe the Atonement PAID for "children of Satan"? ---------------- Is that what you believe? The "wheat/sheep" have recognized that heresy of "Semi-Pelagianism" or "Arminianism" since Pentecost. Why is this "news" to you? www.5thkingdomofheaven.com/chapter-1 ----------------------
@@Dexters.LaBOREatory ... Right? Your CREATOR does not have any RULES for you to follow. You can just make-up your own rules ("gospel") with your personal "feelings". Your CREATOR will just have to deal with your personal "feelings". Good luck with that plan child.
The question revolves around the idea of Christ's atonement for the non-elect. - The Apostle Paul states that Christ died for all people, including the non-elect. - There is a distinction between how Christ's atonement applies to the elect and the non-elect. - Verses from Timothy, Titus, and John emphasize salvation for all, especially those who believe. - The death of Christ guarantees blessings for the elect and provides salvation through faith.
Hard to say that he offered salvation to the non-elect if in turn also made it impossible to accept the offer. TULIP to me fails on this side of the coin. I have zero problem proclaiming that our salvation is God's doing, but TULIP also forces us to reckon with the fact that it also God's doing for everyone to choose Hell.
@@winniethedictator2777 Not true. You can certainly be sincere in your offering even if you knew that they wouldn't accept. That's like saying whenever Jesus said, "Go and sin no more," He wasn't sincere because He would have known that they would still fall into sin soon after.
@@paullee9355 But there is a BIG difference in knowing someone won't accept, and making it impossible for them to accept. You can try to twist it all you want, but that is the inescapable conclusion of reformed soteriology. It is not an offer made in good faith... I recently heard this analogy...It's kind of like telling a man with no arms he can be saved if he will only open the door, and then sending him to everlasting torment if he does not. Clearly, the armless man cannot open the door no matter how many times he is told to do so.
Calvinism makes the most sense for me. I believe that those who truly have the Spirit of God in them will understand the deep and hidden things of God, and understand the true character of God. God has predestined two groups of people.. The Sheep and the Goats. God has chosen to set his unfathomable love on the sheep, and his wrath and judgment on the goats. We can't ask or answer back to God why he has done it like this. He is the potter we are the clay. But we know one thing for sure that everything happens for God's glory and to the praise of His glorious name. People hate calvinism or the doctrines of grace, because they don't understand the condition of this world. People believe that there is some good in everybody.. but this is not the case. Everyone is a vile sinner that has disobeyed and spat in the face of God. No one deserves salvation. Regeneration by the spirit takes place in the elect person at some point in their lives. These people that have the Holy Spirit are chosen before the foundation of the world. God cares for these people, they never leave his sight. But as for the reprobate God will send panic and dread upon them. They will feel God's wrath and fury in this life.. and the next.. Everything comes back to God. It's all about him. It's all about Jesus. Being chosen is the best thing that can happen to someone. The elect will know that they have God on their side. The non-elect cannot hear the voice of God nor will they want to in their fallen state. They are the enemies of God predestined for eternal torment. If you have God's Spirit in you then the Bible will come to life! The Psalms are awesome because it talks about the hope of the righteous and the downfall of the wicked. If you know truly that you are saved and reading this then I look forward to seeing you in heaven :) Things might be tough now but don't worry the Lord will always watch over you. You are being regenerated by the Spirit each day for a greater hope. Thank you God for choosing me. A vile sinner. Never caring or wanting God in the first place. But by his Spirit I have been made new. Not by my own doing. But by his power and his power alone. I didn't choose God nor have the will to do so. He chose me and... yes FORCED me into his Kingdom. But I couldn't be happier :)
He teaches that It's 100% impossible for the nonelect to be saved being predestined to perish? and also that God offers salvation for all? Ah nah. People think about this?
Orioncoat.... you are so naive it is PAINFUL to see. God offers salvation to "all" (or to the world) meaning BOTH the Jew and the Gentile. You cannot hope to understand the MEANING of a passage unless/until you FIRST are able to (1) discern the CONTEXT of the passage and (2) harmonize your doctrine with ALL RELATED passages. ---------------- Remember child... when you believe the passages you LIKE and you reject (or ignore) the contradictory passages you don't like.... then it is not the Gospel you believe, it is only your "feelings" that you believe. -------------------- www.5thkingdomofheaven.com/chapter-1 -----------------------
Being of the world has to do with those in sin, not that all people are universally saved. The general gospel call is to all, but it is only effective for the elect because of God's regenerating grace. John 6:37-40, John 10. The question is why do some respond. God is sovereign. God's grace is the reason.
2Co 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: Joh 4:42 And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world. 1Jo 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world Psalm 130: 3 If thou, LORD, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand? 4 But there is forgiveness with thee, that thou may be feared. 1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. The Lord cannot be the Saviour of all men if He choses who is going to be saved and who is not.
@@firstname713 God will judge righteously and take account of everything. Those that believe are the Bride of Christ and will be in the New Jerusalem on the new earth. Those under the law are judged by the law. Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) 16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel........2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad......Matthew 5:3 ¶ Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. 5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. 6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. 7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. 8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God. 9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
@@marcusrose8971 You did not answer my question. If we choose God, how did those who never heard the gospel have the opportunity to choose to be saved? They didn't. The only reason i am asking is because i absolutely believe God chooses us and we do not choose him. My question is directed at those saying God does not have predestined elect who are saved.
@@firstname713 They cannot choose. Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?......17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. I believe in dispensational truth. The law was until John the Baptist. Those under the law are judged by the law and those gentiles who never had the law by conscience. In the New earth as I see it Rev 21, you have the church (Bride of Christ) in the New Jerusalem Its foundations have the 12 apostles inscribed on them. And outside but with access to the New Jerusalem you have Israel which believed. (The names of the 12 tribes inscribed on the gates) (The parable of the wedding and bridesmaids Matt 25. Those that were not ready were shut outside. I believe they will be among the Nations. Re 21:26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. Jesus said in my Fathers house are many dwelling places. That may not be the orthodox way of looking at it but to me the best way to balance scripture.
1 Corinthians 15:1-4 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Very simple God is just, does not pick and choose, but he knew before all things who will reject him so they called non elect God didn’t unelected those but they unelected themselves- Jesus died for the whole world so in the DAY OF THE LORD they cannot argue Why aren’t they.
@@firstname713 Exactly so you answered your own question brother. If God is the only one who can bring us to Him, then those who had no opportunity to hear are those who were not chosen to hear. In Gods sovereignty and Infinite wisdom we cannot fully comprehend the decisions He makes, all we know is that it all works out for His good, and He remains blameless and faultless. (Ephesians 1:11) (Romans 9:18) (Romans 9:20)
This makes no sense though .. because if the elect was chosen to believe .. the non elect have to decide themselves ? This kinda raises a flag for me .. because if God only chose a certain kind of people to believe but not others...and if faith as a whole is given by God alone... They cannot decide without his hand. So they are condemned reguardless.
1 John 2:1-2: "My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father-Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."
Gen 25:23 And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger. Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
(Romans 9:6-21)makes it clear on this matter . Before God there are kinds of people, those born naturally or ordinary and children of the promise.Sons of the promise are the ones who are the sons of God, for heavenly kingdom. John 1:12-13;17:23)
@KTTGHMTJWYCBLAC The process is found below. Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, .
Jesus said “ I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the zFather but by me. No one comes to me unless the Father draws him and in no way will he be cast out.
tl;dr version: Jesus's sacrifice on the cross was sufficient to redeem everyone but it was not intended for everyone, only the elect. There was a debt to pay, He paid it in full and MORE. #TULIP
I agree with Pastor John on most of his points. But not on this one. You simply can’t read the Bible and get predestination out of it. John 3:16 says “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” That word whosoever means anyone who calls on God, repents of their sins, and accepts that Jesus’ death was the perfect sacrifice for their sins will be saved. Anyone who hears the Gospel can do that. God doesn’t just pick or call some and not others. God says it isn’t His will that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. There’s just no legitimate Biblical basis for predestination. That creates a God who is hateful, and cruel. God is a loving God who cares for the whole world. Not just certain people. The term “the elect” in the Bible simply refer to those who have already accepted salvation. It doesn’t mean that only certain people can be saved. That idea is just dumb. And as I said, there is no legitimate Biblical argument for predestination.
When God speaks of the world, he is not referring ALL but sons of heaven, children of the promise and not ordinary or natural children(John 1:12-13;6:44; 17:23;Romans 9:6-26)
Read Romans 9 brother and ask God for understanding. I empathize with where you are coming from, but we must separate our feelings from the truth and sovereignty of the Creator. Some may see it as cruel and hateful but that would infer that we think our way is more beneficial than the way of God which is foolish because He is the only perfect, holy and transcendent being. We are naturally sinful so we cannot esteem our way over the way of God.
Here is some more from Calvin on the extent of the Death of Jesus Christ John 3:16 “That whosoever believeth on him may not perish. It is a remarkable commendation of faith, that it frees us from everlasting destruction. For he intended expressly to state that, though we appear to have been born to death, undoubted deliverance is offered to us by the faith of Christ; and, therefore, that we ought not to fear death, which otherwise hangs over us. And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found in the world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life” John 1:29 “Who taketh away the sin of the world. He uses the word sin in the singular number, for any kind of iniquity; as if he had said, that every kind of unrighteousness which alienates men from God is taken away by Christ. And when he says, the sin Of The World, he extends this favor indiscriminately to the whole human race; that the Jews might not think that he had been sent to them alone. But hence we infer that the whole world is involved in the same condemnation; and that as all men without exception are guilty of unrighteousness before God, they need to be reconciled to him. John the Baptist, therefore, by speaking generally of the sin of the world, intended to impress upon us the conviction of our own misery, and to exhort us to seek the remedy. Now our duty is, to embrace the benefit which is offered to all, that each of us may be convinced that there is nothing to hinder him from obtaining reconciliation in Christ, provided that he comes to him by the guidance of faith.” Romans 5:18 “He makes this favor common to all, because it is propounded to all, and not because it is in reality extended to all; for though Christ suffered for the sins of the whole world, and is offered through God's benignity indiscriminately to all, yet all do not receive him” VERY CLEAR that John Calvin believed that Jesus Christ Died for ALL MEN WITHOUT EXCEPTION, which is the ENTIRE HUMAN RACE!
Yes, they are Calvinists. I'm a Catholic listener who loves listening to John Piper, but this is one of the several episodes in where I disagree with him strongly.
He is referring to millions of people who follow the reformed theology which in Gods very words is quoted in the bible and there are no red letters in the bible quoting God for free will. he foreknew you and knew before you were born if you would follow Him.
I understand. I to reviled against this theology until I decided to study it thoroughly to see for myself the inconsistencies. Get yourself a red letter bible and search where anywhere does God say anything about Free will. God knows everything. He knew you before the EARTH WAS CREATED. EVERY HAIR ON YOUR HEAD. CHRIST DIED FOR EVERYONE. YOU ARE CORRECT HOWEVER WHAT YOU ARE NOT SEEING IS THAT THE NARROW GATE IS JUST THAT. VERY NARROW. It is His creation that wants nothing to do with Him. What I went in to find wrong has shown me that it is very biblical and goes against the seeker friendly church where its about good music and feel good. Its serious enough to do it. I have sen several because of what I found do the research, and all of them found the same thing as I. God bless.
Much of what was said concentrated on the elect rather than the non elect. Because of God's love, being compassionate and forbearing to the perishing, 1 Timothy 2:4 "who wants all people to be saved and come to the knowledge of truth." Even Jonah was taught about compassion to the perishing, not only in words, but gave his beloved son, Christ Jesus as a sacrifice, (sign of Jonah in the fish belly) died on the cross, and ressurected on the third day for the forgiveness of sin (John 1:29) "The lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world," which say sin in the singular, i.e. unbelief in God incarnate, Christ Jesus, creator of heaven and earth, resulting in unrighteousness outlined in Romans 1 & 2 thus covers everyone born in this world so that (John 3:16a) God so love the world out of compassion, is the sense Christ died for the non-elect and is no different to the elect. Did not Jesus, after his ressurection visited the unbelieving antedulivians who were in prison to proclaim that he died for them (1 Peter 3), and are without excuse.
He didn’t answer the question. Nine minutes of building up to one sentence: “We could never talk like that [with words of hope and salvation] to the non-elect if Jesus hadn’t died the way he did.” What does it matter if they have no ability to believe?
1 John 2:1-2: "My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father-Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."
The “predestination “ the bible speaks about is God allowing gentiles into the family of God. The Jews thought of gentiles as dirty and unclean and Paul is convincing them that this has been Gods plan all along, to allow gentiles (all of us who aren’t Jewish ie: the whole world) into His new covenant. Men sure know how to complicate things....lol
When Jesus teaches [Mat 13] that the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven" consists of BOTH many unsaved "tares" (sown by Satan) and relatively few saved "wheat/sheep" (sown by God) That demonstrates that nobody can pretend to understand the MEANING of any passage unless/until they first understand the CONTEXT of the passage. -------------------- To one group (the "wheat/sheep) Jesus PROMISED eternal life. To the other group ("tares/goats") Jesus PROMISED eternal torment. If you don't understand the CONTEXT... you cannot understand the MEANING. --------------------- God so loved "the world" (both Jew and Gentile) --------------------- You are preaching "another gospel" child. The True Gospel teaches that ORIGINAL SIN resulted in NO MAN seeking God [Rom 3:10] That NO MAN can come to Jesus unless the Father first "draws them" [John 6] in fact, when the disciples realized that Jesus was teaching salvation by "election" then many of them immediately abandoned Christ [John 6:65-66]. Now WHY would many disciples abandon Him? Because they wanted a salvation plan where THEY were in control. ------------------------ www.5thKingdomofHeaven.com ----------------------------
The answer according to scripture is that in addition to the 'elect' ( those chosen to rule with Christ in heaven) Paul stated "There is going to be a resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous|" ( Acts 24:15) If the Kingdom of God is to herald in a 'new heavans & a new earth" ( As Isaiah & Peter stated) then "The inhabited earth to come" ( Heb 2:5) will included such people. ( Rev 5:10)
Okay, I do not understand this question. Christ died for ALL men. ALL sin. It is our choice on whether or not to accept that gift of salvation. How can you partially die for some or something? Christ died for all mankind.
The best way I can explain my view on this is that from God's perspective He died to save the elect that the bible says he foreknew and predestined to salvation. But, from our human viewpoint anyone that hears the gospel can be saved, for He died for everyone who hears and accepts Jesus as savior. I believe the bible gives us glimpses of both the divine and human perspective of salvation. Basically all people can be saved, but God knows those who will be saved, he would not be omniscient otherwise.
Jesus died so that anyone "could" be saved. If He hadn't died, no being (human, angels or otherwise) had any chance of being saved. Only those who hear His voice ARE saved.
No Child... it is not "our choice" because the Bible clearly says that NO MAN seeks God and that NO MAN can come to Christ unless the Father first "draws them". ---------
I’m a Christian who has struggled for many years with the following question: In the beginning, when it was just God, He knew who would accept Him and who would reject Him through free will. Why could God not just create those who would accept Him through free will and not create those who would reject Him through free will, thus saving those who rejected Him from eternal punishment?
We have no authority to question that which is the Sovereign Will of God. We must only submit and serve and praise God for even saving those whom He chose to save.
First, although this may not completely answer your question, your question does relate to the debate betwen infralapsarianism, sublapsarianism and supralapsarianism (the order in which God decreed the fall, election and salvation. www.gotquestions.org/lapsarianism.html Second, regarding how you framed your question, (and I'm not trying to argue, only pointing out a fact) whether you intended it or not, your question actually presumes another position within the discussion (argument) regarding election. Although there are various positions on the question of man's "Free Will" vs God's Sovereign Election, there are two main positions: 1. Arminianism - Basically, although all are sinners, by God's prevenient grace all people have the opportunity to choose, by their free will, to believe or not. God's election is based on what He knows people will do. www.gotquestions.org/arminianism.html 2. Sovereign Election (Calvinism) - All people are in such a fallen state of sin that NObody "chooses"God becaue NObody WANTS to choose God. And therein lies the problem. Apart from GOD electing and by His grace giving SOME the desire (the "Want to" ) to seek Him and Believe (by His Spirit) nobody would seek Him and ALL would be lost. In this case it is God who decided before the foundation of the world which people HE would set His love upon, call to Himself and give His Spirit so that we WILL come to Him. In Sovereign Election: *All Have sinned and fallen short of God's glory and are worthy of His judgment. *SOME receive God's mercy and grace so that they believe (mercy and grace are not owed to anyone) *SOME receive God's justice and are held accountable for their sin (judgment IS owed. We've ALL earned it but thankfully some will not receive it) *NObody receives injustice from God. Again, your question presumes that Arminianism is true. I believe Arminianism is erroneous and therefore your question is not valid. God created the world, he KNEW that man would fall and that ALL people would deserve His judgment. If The LORD had not decided to give mercy to some, and decided to distribute only His justice then ALL people of ALL time would go to hell. Remember the parable of the workers in Matthew 20. The landowner only OWED what was DUE. Anything He decided to give beyond that, even to people who did not deserve it, was HIS business, not ours. Here's a primer on God's Sovereign Election: www.ligonier.org/learn/series/chosen_by_god/what-is-free-will/
rolysantos Thank you for this thoughtful and comprehensive response. I will investigate further the answers you offer and also follow the links you provided. Blessings to you.
@@rolysantos When you say you believe a doctrine that says no one chooses God, you don't believe all scripture. You do not believe God. God cannot take you in because you don't believe all of His word...and here's the part where God confuses the ones who will not obey Him...and you will not let God Himself, the Holy Spirit teach you the whole truth. We do choose, scripture says so. You can use all the doctrines you want, but Christians choose to believe the Bible, and let God explain it to them. You have chosen not to believe the Bible, as God teaches it. You embraced doctrine, but forgot to embrace God, the Teacher of all truth.
@@michaelalbertson7457 No Michael. Christian’s need to stop reading Gods word like chilfdren and move on from elementary teachings as Hebrews 6 admonishes. Unless and until you do, You are the one who doesn’t believe what Gods word actually says. Yes, the Bible speaks in many places of “choosing,” but guess what the problem is Michael NOBODY does! How many people “chose” God in the OT Michael? GOD says exactly zero! ALL we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned, EVERY ONE to his own way; Read Ezekiel 6. GOD saved a remnant because HE chose to spare “some.” Isaiah testifies and Paul quotes him that Unless THE LORD had left us a remnant we would have been like Sodom ….Isaiah 1:9, Roman’s 9:29 Exactly zero would have survived. Free will is the PROBLEM in salvation Michael. It failed in the garden It failed in the Old Covent Read Hebrews 8 God found fault with The PEOPLE. They turned away from him (by their corrupt free will) so He turned from them How did God solve the problem of man’s corrupt free will? He gives us a summary of the NEW covenant in Jeremiah 32:40 I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from doing them good; but I will put My fear in their hearts so that they will not depart from Me. Do you see it Michael? GOD puts His fear in them SO THAT (for the purpose of) they will NOT depart. How does GOD do this? Read Ezekiel 36. HE takes away hearts of stone (the ones ALL of us have. The hearts that do NOT choose Him) And HE GIVES a heart of flesh that DOES choose Him! Read the rest of Hebrews 8. GOD puts His law into hearts and minds (same ideas as Ezekiel 36) in order to bring people to faith AND keep them. We are born again by GOD’s Free Will Michael (Matthew11:27, James 1:18) Here’s the bottom line Michael. If YOU chose God and the other person did not and he died in a state of unbelief What or WHO made the difference? Was God the final difference Or Was it something about You that made the difference?
Even the love of God can only save those who believe, those who accept and receive that love. God and man relationship is based on freewill acceptance of covenant, depending on the importance you give to the good news of salvation. Satan lived with God, saw the full glory of God, yet he rebelled. And he will punished for that. That which has been possible with angels, is possible with men as well. John3:36 "Whoever believe in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him" Guy, as humans, we better seek the Lord and meet his requirement: Believe and you will be saved. Don't speculate otherwise, don't speculate for others in ways that are not provided in the Bible. Preach the Gospel of salvation, do your part, let God do his! We cannot understand all the wisdom of God. Deuteronomy 29:29 "The secret thing belong to the LORD our God, but the thing that are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of his laws." This make me understand that we are not fashioned to explain everything. Therefore, we should not even pretend to explain everything. The thing only true key is to BELIEVE even when we don't understand, then PREACH
Yvan.... you are so naive it is PAINFUL to see. After the ORIGINAL SIN our nature was to sin... our "free will" was to sin. The Bible clearly teaches [Rom 3:10, Rom 9, John 6, Ephesians 1 & 2] That NO MAN can come to God unless He first "draws them" and ALL MEN the Father draws "shall come"... and Jesus loses NONE of "His sheep". ------------------- www.5thKingdomofHeaven.com ------------------------------
That's like saying God provided water sufficient for the thirst of the whole world, but it was only effectual for those to whom God enabled to be able to drink of it.
God is all knowing. He know you before you were born and knew if you would believe and follow Him or not. He knows everything. The vast majority of the population want nothing to do with Him. The water example doesnt work in this example
@@rubessumtertius6358 That's it? That's the best that God can do? So Satan, Sin, and the Death get the spoils and run circles around God. Based on this view God is powerless against the power of Satan, Sin, and Death. God can't get his way, and there is nothing more that he can do.
No it's a matter of understanding our sin. God knows everything. God knows the end from the beginning. Let's take the present population for example. The world has 6 billion people. Out of all denominations and those who dont believe Christian's make up 33% out of that 33% 17.5 are Catholics. Now we know Catholics are not christian so the Holly Sprit is not there. Removing the false Christian church an dd's the seeker friendly movement leaves 2% of the population. What this means is that only 2% are saved that's 120 mill UK on at the present time. The narrow gate is just that. God knows those who would choose Him. It's very biblical and all throughout the Bible in Gods words. There is no place in the bible where God Himself speaks of free will. Hope that helps.
God is all knowing. He knew who would choose him before time and knows the end. Its very biblical and in many places throughout the bible in Gods words. No one place in the bible does God in His words say anything about free will. Hope that helps.
It would have been better NOT to have done this video because it didn't answer the question Or I should say it did the opposite From John's answer - Christ died for the non elect to show his love for the Elect that believe. But sir, how does this benefit the non elect other than highlight their rejection and increase their anger towards God for not electing them?????
The video is correct and with some doctrinal study it allows us to understand it perfectly without fighting it because those who fight it ussually have a purpose of seeing their ways of marketing attacked by this doctrine. Study the elect. Its really simple if you believe that your God knows everything and sees the end from the beginning.
I understand. I to reviled against this theology until I decided to study it thoroughly to see for myself the inconsistencies. Get yourself a red letter bible and search where anywhere does God say anything about Free will. God knows everything. He knew you before the EARTH WAS CREATED. EVERY HAIR ON YOUR HEAD. CHRIST DIED FOR EVERYONE. YOU ARE CORRECT HOWEVER WHAT YOU ARE NOT SEEING IS THAT THE NARROW GATE IS JUST THAT. VERY NARROW. It is His creation that wants nothing to do with Him. What I went in to find wrong has shown me that it is very biblical and goes against the seeker friendly church where its about good music and feel good. Its serious enough to do it. I have sen several bewcause of what I found do the research, and all of them found the same thing as I. God bless.
JD - I believe you've therein answered the very question you've presented; John's answer in the video to be exact * Christ died for the non-elect to show his love for the elect that believe. This is clearly straight from the Word (Romans 9:22, 23) in order that He might show, ... In the question you've presented you've assumed that God somehow owes us something or we must have "benefit" from Him. It is a great mystery isn't it?
The way I see it, and someone can correct me if I am wrong, is that we do not have the knowledge of the elect. It's God who does, and let's be content about it. I am glad I don't know who the elect are versus who the non-elect are, so I will preach the Gospel to all, regardless. I am only a farmer scattering seeds, the good ground will receive it, the bad ground won't, the thorny ground will kill it. There is peace to know that God is the one who produces the harvest, not me. That's the parable that helps me understand election. Opinions are welcome, though.
God chooses who he wants to be his and he also calls all to be with him some he just handpicked bcus he knew our hearts will be with him and we'd accept him so easily but others he calls them to come to him but many reject him sadly
John 3:17 ALL, but not all will except Christ. If you can go from the beginning to the end of age then you know who will and who won't. Therefore you can pre Destin before they're born. All can be saved but not all will.
@@justaguy653 I think "smiling" is just what the doctor has ordered, and I mean the great physician above, for at time I do wonder if He shakes his head in displeasure over the enormous gobs of commentary "man" has fabricated in an attempt to professionally articulate positions that, while interesting to ponder, have very little practical efficacy. Man is a sinner and in need of a Savior, plain and simple. Jesus said, "Go!" and preach the Gospel, which is: "And He is the propitiation for our sins, and not our sins only, but for the sins of the WHOLE world." Yup, I'm a Calvi-minian", or maybe I'll change that to Calvi-minion". Let me pray about that. :)
@@peterpulpitpounder again, thanks for the smile. I needed that more than you may know. He surely works in mysterious ways and uses those for his purpose whether they are aware of it or not. I pray you continue your walk with Him. God bless brother.
@@justaguy653 Well, your words today brought a smile to my face as well. So appreciative of your kind and thoughtful words. Keep lookin' up! Here's a link to a video I created... I hope you can open and view it: facebook.com/peter.grenier.9/videos/10218235720872066/
If God has elect, then there is no possible way for them to escape the reach of Christ, because God is large enough to save them. So how does preaching the gospel benefit those that are not elect, and how is it needed for those that are elect? The parable of the talents can explain the second question, but I'm still having trouble with the first.
In response to your question regarding the purpose of gospel preaching to the elect, consider this: ruclips.net/video/o_TxBpyLokU/видео.html God bless, TETH
If God has elected some few and rejected the rest of humanity who will end up in hell and be tormented for eternity, then he is unjust and evil as fuck.
1 John 2:1-2: "My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father-Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."
I have several friends who belong to sects that follow Calvinism. Ive recently for the first time checked into their doctrines and am shocked at how truly unbiblical I found it to be!
Yes, Calvinism really is a cult that denies Jesus’ atonement, and preaches a false salvation. While Calvinists won’t admit it, they believe in salvation outside of Christ. Ultimately, they believe one is truly saved by God prior to creation through their view of “election.” It’s problematic, because it turns Jesus into a mere formality or afterthought, not a necessity.
I have several friends that follow the Armenian doctrine, and they think that God is like man and so they make out a doctrine to follow their own feelings and not follow God’s word. I pray for them.
I am confused now. My understanding of Calvinism is that God has predetermined who the elect will be, so there is no way for a person who is not elect to "choose" to become elect by accepting Jesus. Listen to all the sermons you like, but your destiny is fixed. A non-elect individual might *think* he or she is elect, but there is no way to change categories really. (And maybe that individual is not walking through the difficult "narrow gate" in the way of the actuallly elect.) In that case, Jesus really didn't die to save that non-elect person, as they are pre-destined to be among the lost (even though they don't know it in this hypothetical). The reason to minister to them is because all people (elect or not) should be brought as close to God as they can be NOT because they benefit from it (as they will not personally benefit from Jesus' sacrifice) but because God deserves their worship (independently of whether they will receive any benefit from the death of Jesus.) If there is free will, and the unsaved can in fact learn to accept Jesus and "become saved" though they were unsaved before, THEN I see how Jesus' sacrifice was for them...Jesus has given them an equal opportunity for salvation (even if salvation isn't guaranteed). But that isn't Calvinism. Calvinism has no "equality of opportunity" because your salvation was determined by God long ago and you cant change it. Right? (I assume not, but I don't understand how I'm wrong.)
Pastor John, I’m normally blown away by your insight, but I have to say this was not convincing at all. Either God loved the whole world, or He didn’t. Forgive me, brother, but it felt like you were grasping for straws here.
1 John 2:1-2: "My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father-Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."
Nichole MacCalley How about this. God loved the whole world and gave his only son to give salvation. Key to heaven. What do we do with that key? Throw it away? Surely many people do. Atheists other religion etc. faith without deed is nothing. What do we as christians do in life? Just believe that we r saved and do nothing about it? Dont we have everyday struggle either to help that old lady cross the road or keep self from wanting to cuss out reckless drivers, giving a homeless guy a buck or two. All those things happening in our lives r what makes us who we r. God is overseer everything that we do that ultimately lead us to the eternal life. Dont think deeds r works and therefore thats a “works salvation”. We r to follow footsteps of jesus and obey God. But of course anyone knows doing wjat the bible teaches us to do is impossible to our minds. That is why we need God every moment of our loves. If we werent saved, why would we have this ever lasting struggle and effort to live a godly life? No one is gon be perfect in this world. Its the struggle to try and be like jesus that our life shows the fruits that is important. I think its these types of people that are the non elect he came to serve and showed that God loves the whole world. Dont dismiss things in bible becuz it doesnt make sense or throw it out the window cuz its impossible or dont suit “ our” lifestyle or taste. Its rude to do that. I think the whole point is that lifelong struggle and longing for God is what ultimately describes who we r ought to be at the end when jesus returns. God knows we aint never gon be perfect at least in this world. Its the recognition of our imperfection, our pride and therefore truly trusting and laying everything at Gods feet to let him lead us knowing he is the light. We grow everyday. Dont let the world confuse u or dont let confusion in urself be the reason to have a doubt on the bible or God. Evil works daily too.
My view on this is that Christ died for the elect, and makes atonement for their sins only. It is a "particular atonement", not a general atonement. Otherwise we would have a part to play in our own salvation, in the sense that we were "wise enough" to believe in Christ whereas other people were not wise enough. We would be saved because of our intellect, and ability to reason the truth out from those who couldn't. The bible doesn't say this, it says "you must be born from above". Salvation is a gift from God the Father who chose in advance who he willed to save. Hard to grasp but this is what the bible teaches. Some people are predestined to Salvation, and blessed beyond comprehension are these people whom God has chosen, and for whom Christ died. I pray with all my heart that I am amoungst their number.
Jesus died for everyone, but everyone doesn't believe it. To receive salvation and the blessings, one must believe. Only those who believe are saved. John 3:16 God knows in advance who will believe. We don't know who will come to believe or when. We plant the seeds. Another waters, and another makes them grow. The seeds are the words of the Gospel. The water is the spirit working in believers. The one who makes them Grow is YHWH (God).
Man is not the determinator of his own soul. God created our world knowing Adam would sin, and has endured sin SO THAT those who HE wants to be with him for eternity will be given eternal life. And many of God’s elect are not born yet. So He endures sin and hates sin. But when the elect sin or see sin, it points to the cross. And we are GRATEFUL for being saved.
I hope someone out there can relate or can answer. For 10 years I've been back and forth to God. 1 foot in both worlds but other times my heart is on fire for God and Christ. Ever so often I come across issues like this one that I have a very hard time finding truth on even thought I pray and devote my heart to finding the truth. During those times it makes me falter some but I always end up back on my feet and sternly back in the word. However this issue specifically has taken a toll on me because it's never answered or makes enough sense. When I hear that I could potentially not be an elect and that I could be predestined for hell no matter what I am defeated and slip back into more sin and it consumes me. I know the truth and I know how to take the narrow path and I want it so bad but it's like something that's not me takes over and does it anyways deliberately and repetitively even knowing the truth. I always hate myself for my sin after and turn back to God everytime. Sometimes in pure tears and anger of my actions, sometimes not even half hearted. My question is if I conquered my sins so I am not to do them deliberately and finally put both feet in heaven and trust solely in Christ but am not an elect of God does this mean I am going to Hell regardless?
The fact that "not being an 'elect' concerns you is evidence of the move of the Holy Spirit in you. Paul says "I tell you these things that you may KNOW that you have eternal life" so this is something that (by Faith) you can be assured of. You CAN know that you are saved. Feelings will always come and go. The longer you stand for Christ and exercise Faith (by standing against the ways of the world), the deeper your understanding and knowledge of your own eternal salvation will be imbedded in you.
Christ died as an open invitation to all. the elect are those who accept. the non-elect don't. the bible says we are accountable without excuses, Calvinism gives them an excuse, they were not chosen.
He died for the non-elect as you refer to unsaved people every bit as much as for the elect as you refer to saved people. Here is just one of many verses that declare this truth: “and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.” 1 John 2:2.
Although I truly appreciate the blessings and teachings of Calvinist preachers like Piper, McArthur, Baucham, Dr White etc I have to respectfully disagree when it comes to the doctrine of Calvinism with limited atonement and the elect. The bible clearly tells us the father sent his only son for THE WORLD, that whoever BELIEVES in him shall not perish but have eternal life (John 3:16) Not that he was sent just for the elect, although the election is in essence the ones who end up CHOOSING to believe in Christ, which in turn become the elect as we become separated from the world. Calvinism becomes a dangerous doctrine which distorts Gods JUST but LOVING nature, because it's not much different from what the Hebrew Israelites believe in, in that only the bloodline of people with in a genealogy linked with blacks, and natiive Hispanics will be saved, and no-one else, which is their distorted view of 'the elect'. This teaching of Calvinism itself came into movement inspired by John Calvin in the 16th century, only a few hundred years ago. Which begs the question, if this wasn't a common view and what was taught amongst the early churches and early church fathers, why then should we believe God has changed what he has already revealed? Regardless of how respected, or popular a teacher is, our ultimate and only true teacher is, God himself, and what he has given to us through his word, and scripture. At the end of the day, if you believe in limited atonement, you can never say "God loves you" and that "he died for you" to anyone, because you don't know that, let alone believe that. And that right there is the problem which contradicts scripture.
From the human perspective, we have no idea who can or cannot be saved. So preach to everyone and believe that all who hear the gospel can be saved by faith.
@@BereanBeliever86 So true. We can say yes or no to God of our own will. God just happens to know what we will do concerning that decision. So, He judges justly. So should we. Micah 6:8 comes to mind.
I don't know about anyone else but Calvinism puts a fear inside me. It makes me think what if I'm deluding myself and maybe I'm not being real. What if I'm not one of the elect. I'll go to my death bed though saying I believe in Jesus and that he died for my sins on the cross. I believe I am born again because of the way my thinking and acting is now vs. the way it was before. I don't do the same thing's I use to. But Calvinism puts that doubt in my mind that maybe I'm not being real and I'm lying/deluding myself. What if it is part of God's plan somehow that I'm completely deluded and I'm going to burn in the LOF for eternity. I'm glad that I am saved. I get that in God's eyes he knows everyone who's going to accept Christ as their savior and who will be saved. Kind of like a movie...if you were to know that entire movie front to back and word for word and action for action. So it kind of makes sense that Christ may have died for everyone but He knows in advanced that not everyone is going to accept Him. It scares me to death though what if I wasn't chosen. What if I'm one of those that will be going to hell.
These thoughts are demonic. Calvinism breeds fear. Please know that no one is predestined for hell. We are all born in a unique human condition, ALL having the ability to hear the Word of God and believe, which is a gift from God. If you believe and repent, you are saved. Anyone may believe. Truly- anyone!
I dont believe that Bro. Piper intentionally takes these verses out of context... Of course the elect are those who repent and turn to Christ unto salvation. How one reads the Word and comes away with Reformed Theology is very mind blowing. How a Calvinist can look at ANY/EVERY person and assure them that Jesus dies for them is oxymoronic.
Awesome! I love how you changed john 3:16 to make it say what you wanted! Hahahaha.. he says " it should say"... press on heretic!.. then the guy at the end... "what a glorious gospel" run from these people plz!
I understand. I to reviled against this theology until I decided to study it thoroughly to see for myself the inconsistencies. Get yourself a red letter bible and search where anywhere does God say anything about Free will. God knows everything. He knew you before the EARTH WAS CREATED. EVERY HAIR ON YOUR HEAD. CHRIST DIED FOR EVERYONE. YOU ARE CORRECT HOWEVER WHAT YOU ARE NOT SEEING IS THAT THE NARROW GATE IS JUST THAT. VERY NARROW. It is His creation that wants nothing to do with Him. What I went in to find wrong has shown me that it is very biblical and goes against the seeker friendly church where its about good music and feel good. Its serious enough to do it. I have sen several because of what I found do the research, and all of them found the same thing as I. God bless.
If all sin is not atoned for then there is sin running around that has not been atoned for and the Creation in part is still under the curse. Christ died firstly as an offering to the Father before the Trinity brought it to the world. The victory had taken place before Pentecost, victory over sin, Satan and death.
Please pray for me that I come to the fullness of the Gospel of Christ Jesus and find saving Faith in Christ and enter his rest
It's not the greatness of your faith that saves, but the greatness of the One in whom you believe.. The One who was lifted upon the cross that all who look to Him will have eternal life. The Lord Jesus Christ says "come unto Me.."
Great sign. However you can go directly to Him and pray yourself. If you have the desire than what that means is that you are His and called. No one who is not has the desire. The fear of God is not in the uncalled therefore also have no desire for it and His will have the Holly spirit in them to help them move in a direction that we are incapable of doing in our fallen self. We must search our hearts unlike the modern fallen church will ever do. Are we in it for our feeling good, prosperity or is it for what He did for us.? Are we repenting of our sin? are there signs of change? if there is no change of desire or change of actions in our lives there is no proof of a God living inside of us. For it is for all to KNOW. And how do we know? the change and repentance. What is more important in our lives? The Sin that we love or the love to follow Him. It is a very small gate in which those who are His will go through. The word Christian has become a sales word and a popular social media corporate money maker. Be careful who you follow.
I’ll pray for you don’t give up ask the lord for his love
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The Gospel that saves is Paul's Gospel. He was given the final revelation for this present Age of Grace. The Twelve preached another Gospel that was given to and for the Jews. They preached faith plus works. Paul disputed with them constantly for forcing non Jew converts to obey the law of Moses. Paul insisted the Gentiles were saved by Grace apart from works of the law. Paul also teaches that people who come to Christ through his Gospel are no longer considered Jew or Gentile. Paul taught we are all one in Christ. The Twelve did not preach that message. God withdrew the message given to the twelve because Israel rejected it. God will cause the message the twelve preached to be preached again during the tribulation which takes place after the Body of Christ is removed from the earth.
Bottom line: you can save yourself a lot of confusion by reading Romans to Philemon because in them is the Gospel that saves. Romans 10:9-10;
1 Corinthians 15:1-5; Ephesians 2:8-9
''He who has an ear, Let him hear'' Rev 2; Matt 11
"He who lacks understanding, let him ask & it will be given" James 1:5
Yes Shirley... but was the CONTEXT of that passage the "wheat" in the church
or was the context the "tares" in the church? You cannot hope to understand
the MEANING of a passage unless (1) you first discern the context and
(2) your doctrine harmonizes with ALL RELATED Scriptures.
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Jesus was clear [Mat 13] the church consists of both many unsaved "tares"
(sown by Satan) and relatively few saved "wheat/sheep/saints/elect"
(sown by God). To one group (the wheat) He promises eternal life
to the other group (the tares) He promises eternal torment.
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www.5thkingdomofheaven.com/chapter-1
Is true at the end of the day only the Lord knows who truly accepted Him as The Lord of their life’s. No one knows for sure but only Him. All we can do is preached the Gospel to all, hoping that they might be saved. Sleep like a Calvinist, Preach like a Arminian. That’s where I’m resting on.
Thats incorrect. It is for all to know without doubt. That what you said is unbiblical and sounds like a particula religion that claims to be christian however are anti christian with everything they do.
@@rubessumtertius6358 yes true
what he says that nobody knows thats the koran.
muslim. they dont know
and do good good work. pray to mecca and hope allah saves them 😅
@@rubessumtertius6358
THE SALVATION OF THE LORD GOD *IS* A PARTICULAR MIRACLE - MEANT ONLY FOR THE ELECT OF THE LORD GOD, OR WAS CHRIST JESUS HIMSELF A LIAR???!!!
CHRIST SAID; *"For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins."* {MATT. 26:28 KJV}
@@rubessumtertius6358 I'll be way less charged than the other guy who replied to you. But yes I believe he's right, only God knows who accepted him and we must preach the gospel to everyone. In Romans 9 Paul talked both of predestination (Romans 9:6-29) and his personal anguish and wish that the Jewish people would accept Christ, even he wishes he could take their punishment so they would be saved (Romans 9: 2-5)
@@jehovahuponyou While only the elect will be saved, did God meant salvation only for the elect of God? What about verses like John 3:16? God love the world of the elect? 1 John 2:2 he is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world?
1 John 2:1-2: "My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father-Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."
That's right, not just for the Jews but for Gentiles.
@@mikeydavis6033 It is all about the Jews and Gentiles believers who are the elect ,sheep,the church
@KTTGHMTJWYCBLAC thank you! Smartest comment i read of this topic
The "whole world" is made up of the "elect" and "non elect". If everyone was saved, then there would be no one in hell and everyone would be in heaven, which we know is not true. Not everyone will be saved. Only the elect who were chosen (predestined) before the beginning of time will be saved.
Romans 8:30
And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
There are two groups of "all". "All" the elect and "all" the non-elect. Together they make up "all" of humanity. Not "all" of humanity will be saved.
I love pastor John. He is so pure, loving, soft tone and explains it all clear and easy to understand. Thank you and may God bless you all.
Amen
I wouldnt go as far as ever calling him pure, he is a very honest sinner and there is purity and truth in that from above indeed, in the new creation. It is good we see ourselves as clean by the blood of Christ, dead to sin but we must live with the old nature until the end. I personally wouldnt want anybody calling me pure… i know how easily sin can grip me. God bless you brother or sister in Jesus
Bot?
I’m glad it’s a problem to Calvinists. It’s not a problem to me. I accept Scripture. It clearly states that he died for all. Those who accept Christ sacrifice for their sins are saved. Some are saved and unfortunately many a lost because they did not believe.
Right. I’d agree with Calvinists on most things, but this whole topic I do not. I think election and free will coexist in the same way I elected my wife and she accepted me of free will. Piper is solid on most things, but this is some incredible mental gymnastics. 🤸♀️
Christ died for the sheep, not for the goats. Goats don’t become sheep. A person who turns to Christ is not a goat that became a sheep, he was lost sheep found by the Lord and brought back to the fold.
"He by the grace of God, might taste death for every man."
Anyone who trusts in Jesus Christ will be saved. Anyone can be Jesus’ sheep through faith.
no everyone can not believe in Jesus Christ because everyone is dead and the dead know nothing however God enlivens only those whom He predestined to be saved so that they will believe in Jesus Christ. The nonelect won't believe because God doesn't enliven them. So it appears as those everyone can be saved but truth is not everyone can be saved. Only the elect will respond because they are already His sheep even before they ever hear the gospel preached. As Jesus said "My sheep hear my voice" Not candidates to become His sheep but already are His Sheep.How can it be said that Christianity is the greatest love story ever told when for many more people than the saved it's the greatest horror story ever told.!!
@@davidaucoin7317 If you really believe this and preach this, then you’re in a cult and you’re doing Satan’s work for him.
I mean, can you even tell me you’re saved, and have assurance of salvation?
@@davidaucoin7317 Living people are physically dead? That's a new one. I think maybe you misunderstand they word "dead." It's referring to spiritually dead.
For instance, an unbeliever is "dead in sin," while a believer is "dead to sin." It doesn't mean they're physically dead.
That aside, scripture says anyone can be saved. I'm really curious why you would argue against God's word like this. Do you not want people to be saved? Why would anyone want people to suffer in hell eternally?
And if you think God would determine people to hell, why would you ever think a good God would do such a horrible thing to one sinner, but not another sinner?
1 John is one of the best examples of who is a Christian and who is not. Christ said, "You will know them by their fruits" I would like to encourage others to study over that book.
When the Bible says Jesus is the SAVIOR of the WORLD that's exactly what it means. He died for every single human being. The sad thing is that not everyone will receive the gift of salvation and because God knows this in his foreknowledge because Bible says he knows our hearts, that is how how God knows in advance who is saved and who is not.
What about those who did not have the opportunity to hear the gospel? How did they get to choose to believe?
@@firstname713 exactly… babies who die in the womb…. Toddlers who die without true faith and belief in Christ. How do we reconcile that they ALL go to hell. I believe that God has chosen some as his elect.
@@Eamador8644 if you believe that only the Gospel can save a person, how do you propose God has chosen them?
Exactly
He died for all of us
So that whoever believes, anyone cannot just believe on their own decision, but believed because the Father changed their hearts in order for them to believe.
Is it just me, or did he not really answer the question...
Gert Kruger I had the same feeling. I kept waiting for an answer but it never came.
He did. Whoever believes is the one affected by Christ's death.
The way he died for the non-elect is that anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life. The non-elect used to be EVERYONE; then Jesus died and whoever ends up believing in Him is the elect.
Sean Charrie I don't think that's what he meant. That's Arminianism. The elect are the elect by God's eternal choice. They are chosen in him before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4). They will believe at the effectual calling. We are responsible to fully and freely preach the gospel to all because we don't know who the elect are, only God knows. The question was, "in what sense did Christ die for the non-elect?" This is a question on limited atonement. Jesus laid down his life for his sheep (John 10:11,16,26-28) not those who are not his sheep. Other texts say Jesus died for all (1 John 2:2). If Jesus only lays down his life for his sheep and is a propitiation for the sins of the whole world, in what sense did he die for the non-elect? Most reformed would say the death of Christ is sufficient for all, but is only efficient for the elect.
Richard Statham I don't know. this is complicated, I'm still deciding what I believe. The Bible seems to have many more passages that point to Jesus' atonement being a personal choice, which can be influenced by God. It's just, if it has nothing to do with us, why is the Bible constantly telling us what to do in order to please God, walk with God, work out our salvation, etc.?
I like what someone else here said "God is not the author of confusion." This really is a doctrine that bends toward confusion...I know God's ways are higher than ours, though. I'm not sure. Hopefully knowing which is true isn't all that important for our lives with God here on Earth.
For the sind of the world. That's everything folks.
Many of you are missing that Christ came to conquer sin, all sin "the seed of the woman will crush the head of the serpent" . So all sin, past, present and future was dealt with and defeated at the cross n regards to God being satisfied. The only thing that will send you to hell is rejection of Christ as the son of God.
All sin for the elect was dealt with.
Then what's the point of working out my salvation with fear and trembling while i can just believe then continue in all my old ways?
@@mikemcgregor6127 GREAT ANSWER..BUD
Right and anyone can become part of the elect through Christ. It's called a miracle of God and our limited minds don't get but it is clear that God would have all men to be saved. Nobody knows anything as they ought to at this time and that's biblical.
Mike McGregor... that notion is so naive it is PAINFUL to see.
You are not teaching the Gospel that men pay for their sins (as the Bible teaches),
Rather, you teach "another gospel" that says men pay for ONE SIN of not believing.
You do not even understand the "milk" of the Gospel child... you have no hope of
ever understanding the "meat" of the Gospel. But that is not new... Christ clearly
taught [Mat 13] that the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven" (the church) consists of
both many unsaved "tares/goats" (sown by Satan) and relatively few saved
"wheat/sheep/saints/elect" (sown by God). To one group (the wheat) Christ
PROMISED eternal life. To the other group (the tares) Christ PROMISED
eternal torment.
--------------------
You cannot even hope to understand the MEANING of a passage unless/until you FIRST
discern the CONTEXT of the passage.
-----------------------
www.5thkingdomofheaven.com/chapter-1
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To believe that multitudes are "non-elect" even before they were born and will spend eternity in torment, AND at the same time say that you believe "God is Love", ... is a nonsensical contradiction that negatively reflects on the character of God.
I don't recall any scriptures that mention "the non-elect". I do recall many that speak of God's love for the world.
The non elect are the goats
The elect are sheep
@Ben Jones Sounds like they are not the elect not because God didn't choose them, but because they refuse to believe
@Ben Jones then under that premise they won't enter the kingdom because God didn't want them/elect them/provide salvation for them, not because they didn't believe.
@@mythwest You are correct.
Christ Atonement - Universal intent, Universal extent but Limited application. The salvation gift was purchased for all but received by those especially who believe.
It is only God that can cause a man to believe.
I’m just going to live my life on my terms. If I’m in the elect there’s nothing I can do to change that. If I’m not there’s nothing I can do to change that
This is a classic case of twisting Scriptures or reading your doctrine into the Scriptures.
@@ibcsrcambodia8080 yes it is isn’t it?
@@Leonugent2012 I disagree. You have been given truth and when you ask God to give you belief, He will. If you refuse what you know, then you are rejecting truth which means you are rejecting the gift of Jesus
Temporal blessings flow from the cross
Saviour of all men especially
Those who believe!
If God so loved the world , he must have done something for the whole world. For me the most logical interpretation is that Jesus' sacrifice Is enough for the sins of every man
Mauro Pelliza
if you are able to pick up a bible and read gospels you will find that there never took place a sacrifice of Jesus.
You are right Edward
And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when Christ[b] had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. 14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.
Hebrews 10:11-14
Exactly. He died for everyone, but out of “everyone” only those who BELIEVE will inherit the benefits of His death.
@@Doxologie totally agree. Jesus' gift is enough for everyone. Is up to to each person to believe in order to receive the gift
It applies to "whosoever believeth in Him"..
So, reasoning like a calvinist but offering the gospel like an arminian. I think I get it now.
Ministering the Word of God as a vessel of Christ 😁
I'm a chosen and I believe anyone could be saved if they turn to Yahweh I'm not deep in calvanism bcus I find it harsh to only think only chosen ppl going to heaven I feel God wants to save everyone he loves us all
Romans 9-11 has a very happy ending:
"God has consigned all to disobedience, that He may have mercy on all. … From Him, and through Him and to Him are all things." (Romans 11:32,36a)
Humm! My Bible reads HE died for all!!!
Context matters.
In what context?
What about those who die without hearing the gospel? How did they get to choose?
He died for those who believe in Him, Ephesians 1:19 and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, we have been saved through faith, and not of ourselves, you need to read Ephesians, this will explain, those who cannot see will not be saved.
My Bible reads He died for His sheep, for the elect, and for His church.
The answer is there. But there’s a much easier way of answering that question: I’ll help you all out: NOTHING. No benefit to the non-elect. But here’s the twist: it helps US, BELIEVERS to share the gospel to the world because we do not know who is elect. Because at the end of the age, EVERY knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father… We should not wonder as believers, we believers are commanded in Matthew to preach the gospel to all the nations. But it’s VERY CLEAR in Romans that we have been Chosen and Predestined. How blessed we are the Elect!
In summary, it doesn’t benefit the non-elect, but it 1.) gives glory to God; 2.) it makes us (the elect) appreciate our salvation so much more!!!
Yes, God created some 'to the vessels of destruction' sadly, only because he knew that they would reject him. He died for the whole world, people have a choice to choose him or not. The only thing we can blame him for, is that he gave us a choice, he did not create robots or puppets. Some people, like the fallen angels, decided to reject him, but he created them. Because he knew everething, even your next thought, he could know that this child, even when he loved him so much, would choose to reject him. We want to blame God for everything, just choose him. If you struggle to believe, tell him, spend time with him, cling to him and don't let go until there is a breakthrough. HE LOVES YOU AND WAIT FOR YOU.
Exactly, and a scripture to denote this is Matthew 13:30.
Pastor john did a great job explaining just how merciful and graceful God truly is. Unlike other Calvinist preachers who think God predestines people to hell. Its not Gods choice or even his will that any should perish, but his will is that all should come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.
Or Peter is writing to elect persons who have been made alive. 1 Peter 1: 1-2 "Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,
To God’s elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, 2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance." He even talks about being sure or confirming your "Calling" & "Election" in 2 Peter 1. So, since he's writing to saved people, and the verse you cited from 2 Peter 3 where he's talking about the day of the Lord - it's very reasonable that Peter is indeed speaking of the Lord's delay, that he hasn't returned - not because He wants every person saved, but that all the elect be gathered in Him first and non of them perish (by Him returning before hand).
@Sentionaut 7.8 He doesn't want everyone to be saved? Wouldn't that make God sadistic. Since God is sovereign. He created hell, and its his judgment and wrath. God who is Holy wouldn't create a place of torment just to create people and continue to create people just to send them to hell. If Peter was talking about just the elect, he wouldn't have been more specific. God literally wants all to be saved. 1 Timothy 2:4 Who (God) desires all people to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.
@@sportsfanforever100 If God's intention was to save everyone then everyone would be saved. You can call it sadistic but I just accept that God is God & He does as He pleases & everything He does is righteous. Man, on the other hand, is sinful & dead in trespasses & sins - deserving of the wrath of God & eternal punishment. But God, by His grace chose many to be in Christ before the foundation of the world. Check Ephesians, Romans 8-9, 2 Thessalonians, etc. Read 1&2 Peter again too. 1 Peter begins addressing the "elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father". "To God's elect ....who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God". And if God is sovereign, then He has the right to choose some to eternal life & not others.
@Sentionaut 7.8 Again God wants ALL to be saved.1 Timothy 2:4, 2 Peter 3:9, John 3:16. There is not any sort of context that shows all to have a different meaning. If God wanted peter to talk about the elect only he would have. God's not going to force anyone to be saved. Again, that would make him sadistic not to save everyone if he did. Who do we get our morals from? You can CHOOSE to ignore that calavnistic teaching makes God out to be sadistic. People who are saved can say we are apart of the elect because we believe in Jesus Christ's work and resurrection and not because we were randomly chosen by God. God gave us a free will to acknowledge or deny him. God wants a relationship with everyone, but not everyone wants a relationship with God. He elected the Jews but yet not all jews are saved.
@@sportsfanforever100 Many people from all the world but not every single person of all time. 1 Peter 1, who was he writing to? If God wants all to be saved then He is failing. Context is important & essential. Proof texting isn't that helpful, read the whole letter & reread, that goes for me as well. Anything anyone tells you, no matter how long you've heard it or believed it, check it against the Bible & find out if that's really what it's saying. How do you explain Romans 8-9, Ephesians, John 10? We don't attach ourselves to Christ & say we are elect. We are elect because God chose us to be in Christ before the foundation of the world & you said yourself that God is sovereign. That means He controls all things, that He is sovereign over all things & that includes salvation. Christ didn't lay down his life for some possibility for salvation, he made an sacrifice for a particular people, those who God gave to Him (the elect), for their actual salvation. But, I've said enough. I leave it to you to check the scriptures & think it through. The chapters I mentioned & there are many others there for you. Grace & peace to you from God the Father & the Lord Jesus Christ.
Easy...Died for all, Only believers saved.
Died for all... both Jew and Gentile. Very simple,
any other "interpretation" contradicts related passages.
www.5thkingdomofheaven.com/chapter-1
If Jesus knew from beforehand who would never believe and be saved, then he did not die for them intentionally.
@@ViolinistJeff Of course he knew. He knew before the foundations of the world.
@@robroy4058 I agree, he did know. So if God knew before the foundations of the world which people would never be saved, why do you think God created those people?
@@ViolinistJeff One theory is He knew who would follow Him. Nobody knows the real answer.
Reformed Theology is such a mess. They try to tell you that 1+1=5. John 3:16 says, "God so loved the WORLD..." If we can not be certain what "world" means then we have no hope of correctly understanding words like "predestined" or "elect." And if unconditional election is true, then a lot of beautiful babies are being born every day for no other reason than to burn in hell for all eternity. Finally, NO, I do not question God's sovereignty - what I question is the Calvinist perspective on God's character, which is not consistent with the Almighty portrayed by the whole of Scripture.
It’s like a generous donor who purchased tickets for every student at a particular school. The only condition is that each student has to stop by the donor’s house to personally receive the ticket before attending the concert. Undoubtedly, there will be many who for one reason or another fail to take advantage of this generous gift and miss out
Wrong. Election is only of certain people, and scripture says the elect were chosen from before the foundation of the world.
Isn’t that more Arminian than Reformed?
@@JohnMoog-dn9dt Yup. Thank God.
But in your analogy , for it to explain Calvinism, the donor randomly will only give tickets to a select few and not because they asked but because the donor made them ask.
What you say makes sense, but that is not what most Calvinists say. They say the non-elect have absolutely zero ability to go pick up those tickets. They are not elect so there is no possible regeneration so they say. But yet rejecting Christ is 100% their fault. Does that make sense? The question is 100% rhetorical.
In the end, none of this matters. Fighting within the body of Christ makes us look bad. It's not a salvational issue and God's gonna do what God's gonna do regardless of what we think or theorise.
Jesus died for everybody! UNlimited Atonement. Romans 3:25 UNTO ALL and upon all them that believe
Jesus died for "His sheep"
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The Bible is very clear [Mat 13] that the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven" (the church)
consists of BOTH many unsaved "tares" (sown by Satan) and relatively few saved
"wheat/sheep" (sown by God).
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Moreover, Jesus PROMISES one group (the wheat/sheep in the church) eternal life
But He PROMISES the other group (the tares/goats in the church) eternal torment.
He also promises all those OUTSIDE the church eternal torment...
Why is this "milk" of the Gospel "news" to you child?
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www.5thkingdomofheaven.com/chapter-1
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BTW.... the Bible never says Jesus PAID the price for "everyone"...
It says He paid for the "world" (meaning both Jew and Gentle)
Many men lived and died without ever hearing about Jesus.
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What about those who did not have the opportunity to hear the gospel? How did they get to choose to believe?
Christ died just as fully for the ungodly as for the very elect. His blood covers all sin, it just has to be appropriated. He is a great God and Savior!
The word all
Means all sorts of people
Not confined to one race
The jacob and esau story
One saved one not
Two thieves on cross
One saved one not
Two in a place
One taken one left
Christ desires all to be saved.
Christ died for all Mankind. In doing so, God is also going to give His finally response and answer to sin and rebellion. First, through the Life and death of Christ upon the cross, and then through His resurrected Life living in and through saints who take up their cross daily.
When is comes to the elect (and non-elect) or election, what is often overlooked is God Himself. He is the all Supreme God. There is no other. He is Love, but He is also Holy. He is full of grace and mercy, yet worthy and just to judge both the sin and rebellion out of all eternity.
We see His completeness in Romans 9:13, “Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.” The Greek word for “hated” is miseō - meaning to detest (especially to persecute); to love less.
But how can God love one, and love the other less? We must be careful that we don’t cast a slur on God’s Character and His Divine Attributes.
One attribute that is often missing in Theological discussions is God’s Divine foreknowledge.
God “foretells” while “foreknowing” what a man will or will not do when challenged with the revelation of His purposes. He knows everyone’s crossroad and their heart attitude, who will respond and who will reject or despise Him. God doesn’t predetermine this, but rather declares it as He views the beginning and the end as the same (being Omniscient). God knew that Esau would despise the birthright, and so, based on His Nature of Love and Holiness, He exercised His sovereign right of election. He hated Esau’s heart attitude and rejected him, it wasn’t the loss of Heaven, but of his inheritance (the Kingdom of God in type). Paul goes on to explain election in verses 19-24 using the potter and the clay. “…Shall the thing formed say to Him that formed it, Why have you made me thus? Has not the potter power over the clay…to make one vessel to honor, and another to dishonor?”
The principle of Divine election is that God acts in mercy towards whom He will, and in judgment towards whom He will. Whether unto “honor” or “dishonor” rests upon God's sovereignty. This is based upon His Holy Love, always taking into account the heart reaction or response of man's will. God is never unjust, for “The LORD is righteous in all His ways, and holy in all His works” (Psa. 145:17). Regarding Esau, it was not only God exercising His sovereign right of justice, but of Him allowing Esau to refuse to avail himself to God’s provision of forgiveness. All this by His sovereign right of His mercy and compassion. As it was with Esau, so it is with us. The Lord knows all, and He is all we need to know.
As to election and the elect in Rom. 9:10, “…the purpose of God according to election…” Vincent says, “The phrase signifies a purpose so formed that in it an election is made.” What many Theologians have done over the years is place the idea of “election” above all else, even God’s ultimate purpose of having a company of firstborn sons unto Himself. “For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brothers” (Rom. 8:29). “And He is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things He might have the preeminence” (Col. 1:18, 1 Cor. 15:20-23, Psa. 89:27).
His ultimate purpose formed by the Godhead before time is seen in Eph. 1:4 “According as He has chosen us in Him before the foundation of the World, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love.” This purpose is Godly character. Therefore from among the children of Abraham according to the flesh, God made a selection of those who believed, because through faith character is formed. The result, “…that we might be partakers of His holiness” (Heb. 12:10). So too with us today, within the Church there are some who will live in Christ (their spirit born-again) according to their own self-centeredness, while others will press on to the high calling, taking up their cross (denying their right to self) and surrendering their lives (souls) unto God by faith.
Yes, we are all hopeless without Him (Rom. 3:23, John 15:5), but how deep is His Love towards us all? The Father is desiring to see His Son walk the earth again both in and through a people for His glory (Col. 1:27, 2 Thess. 1:10) and will move Heaven and Earth to make this a reality to whom-so-ever is willing.
@KTTGHMTJWYCBLAC
What was Jesus teaching in His parable of the wise and foolish 'virgins'?
And, what is being taught by Esther approaching the king, knowing she would be killed, and instead a 'golden sceptre' is extended to her, as her heart was for her people's salvation?
What does the LORD promise in 2Chron.7:14?
I get what Piper is tryna say but I still believe Yahweh wants all of us to be saved I'm a chosen myself and I don't want anyone to go to hell that's why I try to talk to everyone about Yahweh I talk to even the most coldhearted people bcus I had my own experience of hell and I don't want anyone to go there
@@Yahshuaismyeverything But most will go to hell. The Bible says few are saved. You are doing the right thing by preaching to all you can. Let God lead. Praise the Lord.
I didn't get to finish my comment. As I was saying, listening to all of these people's viewpoints, if I wasn't a Christian, I would be so confused, I think I'd just throw my hands up and forget about it all. I refuse to listen to anymore of other people's interpretations of God's Word. The best thing to do is to ask the Holy Spirit to reveal answers to any questions you may have about God's Word. No, a lot of people won't accept Jesus Christ but we all desperately need Him!!! I know I do!
Amen Amen Amen Brother John
Donnie Penix John is calling Jesus a liar
and you call him brother
It's pretty simple here - Saviour for ALL people of cause to anyone that especially believes, YES believe otherwise how are they saved? We all have a free choice to accept Jesus Christ as Lord and saviour by grace through faith only.
So Christ's death is "sufficient for all, but effective for some", for those who are redeemed
Only for those who would believe and repent and follow Him. He knew you before you were born. The vast majority of the population do not want Hin or anything to do with Him. He knows everything.
@@rubessumtertius6358 It is only God that can open the eyes of a person to believe.
But according to Calvanism they cannot believe because God determined it and before they were even born God chose them to be damned in hell. Run from this doctrine from the pit!
We are not looking at all non believers. We are only looking at all people for whom the elect( chosen before the foundations of the world) have interceded for. No man can come unto me unless the Father who sent me draws him unto me. Whoever comes to me I will in no wise cast them out.
JESUS DIED FOR ALL, SO SOME WOULD BE SAVED... It's up to you, if you'll be one of those that are Saved... 😉❤😊
I understand. I to reviled against this theology until I decided to study it thoroughly to see for myself the inconsistencies. Get yourself a red letter bible and search where anywhere does God say anything about Free will. God knows everything. He knew you before the EARTH WAS CREATED. EVERY HAIR ON YOUR HEAD. CHRIST DIED FOR EVERYONE. YOU ARE CORRECT HOWEVER WHAT YOU ARE NOT SEEING IS THAT THE NARROW GATE IS JUST THAT. VERY NARROW. It is His creation that wants nothing to do with Him. What I went in to find wrong has shown me that it is very biblical and goes against the seeker friendly church where its about good music and feel good. Its serious enough to do it. I have sen several because of what I found do the research, and all of them found the same thing as I. God bless.
@@rubessumtertius6358 It seems you are saying the exact thing I wrote, It's up to the Individual if they find the NARROW PATH.... so many are going to Hell and Don't have a Clue... Thank you for a heartfelt response... 🤗❤🙏
Now that is blasphemy and heretical.
Frederick Kotze lmao ikr
Frederick Kotze they just did some mental gymnastics and tried to throw me through a loop on that one
Jesus Christ went to the cross and now lives to set sinful you free from death and hell. Repent and turn your heart to Him before it’s too late. If He calls your heart, say yes!
Yes, do not harden your heart when He calls you! He may increase the hardness of your heart if you do so. If you respond in faith, he can grow your faith! He will add to you with the measure you respond with. Be careful how you listen to his Word (meaning, listen carefully and take heed).
I am coming out of Calvinism... Honestly my faith feels renewed. Early in my question walk I was introduced to Calvinism so I assume that was always true and was never taught that there are alternative opinions and interpretations. Calvinist for 20 years
I’m happy for you. Be free! 😊
Do you now believe you can lose your salvation? If so, you’re no longer free.
Brother, i'm coming from an arminian church, people think they can fall from faith and get up every week, on their own "free will"...
That’s unfortunate for your sake. I take the position from the scripture what Calvinism ( what we call it) teaches in LARGE part because no other teaching on the subject glorifies God as Calvinism does. In fact any other position dishonors the Father and Christ. I pray thatGod will lead you back to the truth.
Let me ask this question...In what sense did God create the non elect to be predestined to hell against their will. If you're elect that's fine. But how would you feel if you were non elect? Calvanism is unbiblical.
"Forgive them, for they know not what they do". Why would He say that about a bunch of unelected Romans that He knows will not be forgiven? What a butchering of John 3:16, the most straightforward passage in the Bible. Calvinism is perverse.
Aaron Frampton
Remember bro, SO is a adverb... he so loved....
You must read verse 14 and 15 for context. Context will take you to Numbers 21.
PS: I am not a Calvinist.
Perverse? That's a harsh and hurtful word and uncalled for. Glimpses of Calvinism and Arminianism are both shown in the bible. I believe Calvinism is the view from God of salvation and Arminianism is the human view of salvation. God of course knows who will be saved because He is God and knows all things. From the human perspective if we hear the gospel all can be saved if we believe.
God so loved the world (both Jew and Gentile) that whosoever believes....
But the Bible teaches [Jn 6] that NO MAN can come to Jesus unless the Father FIRST
"draws" them and ALL MEN the Father draws "shall come", and Christ loses NONE of His sheep.
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When His disciples realized that Jesus taught salvation by "election" then MANY of them
immediately abandoned Him [John 6:65-66]. Now... WHY did those disciples abandon Him?
Because they (like you) wanted a salvation plan where THEY had control.
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The Bible is clear in other places that God HATED some men before they were born...
do you pretend Jesus PAID for their sins? The Bible teaches that God CREATED some men
to be "vessels of destruction" while He created others to be "vessels of mercy" [Rom 9]
Do you pretend Christ PAID for the sins of the "vessels of destruction"? Hardly.
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Christ clearly taught [Mat 13] the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven" (the church) consists of
both unsaved "tares/goats" (sown by Satan) and saved "wheat/sheep/saints/elect"
(sown by God). Do you really believe the Atonement PAID for "children of Satan"?
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Is that what you believe? The "wheat/sheep" have recognized that heresy of
"Semi-Pelagianism" or "Arminianism" since Pentecost. Why is this "news" to you?
www.5thkingdomofheaven.com/chapter-1
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The words in the bible have been altered. Your relationship with God should be your only guide.
@@Dexters.LaBOREatory ... Right? Your CREATOR does not have any RULES for you to follow.
You can just make-up your own rules ("gospel") with your personal "feelings".
Your CREATOR will just have to deal with your personal "feelings".
Good luck with that plan child.
The question revolves around the idea of Christ's atonement for the non-elect.
- The Apostle Paul states that Christ died for all people, including the non-elect.
- There is a distinction between how Christ's atonement applies to the elect and the non-elect.
- Verses from Timothy, Titus, and John emphasize salvation for all, especially those who believe.
- The death of Christ guarantees blessings for the elect and provides salvation through faith.
To the world, He offered salvation; for the elect, He accomplished salvation.
Hard to say that he offered salvation to the non-elect if in turn also made it impossible to accept the offer. TULIP to me fails on this side of the coin. I have zero problem proclaiming that our salvation is God's doing, but TULIP also forces us to reckon with the fact that it also God's doing for everyone to choose Hell.
If you say He offered salvation to reprobates, then it would be an insincere offer since He knew they wouldn't accept it. But God can't be insincere.
@@winniethedictator2777 Not true. You can certainly be sincere in your offering even if you knew that they wouldn't accept. That's like saying whenever Jesus said, "Go and sin no more," He wasn't sincere because He would have known that they would still fall into sin soon after.
@@paullee9355 That's a good point. Thanks
@@paullee9355 But there is a BIG difference in knowing someone won't accept, and making it impossible for them to accept.
You can try to twist it all you want, but that is the inescapable conclusion of reformed soteriology.
It is not an offer made in good faith...
I recently heard this analogy...It's kind of like telling a man with no arms he can be saved if he will only open the door, and then sending him to everlasting torment if he does not. Clearly, the armless man cannot open the door no matter how many times he is told to do so.
Calvinism makes the most sense for me. I believe that those who truly have the Spirit of God in them will understand the deep and hidden things of God, and understand the true character of God. God has predestined two groups of people.. The Sheep and the Goats. God has chosen to set his unfathomable love on the sheep, and his wrath and judgment on the goats. We can't ask or answer back to God why he has done it like this. He is the potter we are the clay. But we know one thing for sure that everything happens for God's glory and to the praise of His glorious name.
People hate calvinism or the doctrines of grace, because they don't understand the condition of this world. People believe that there is some good in everybody.. but this is not the case. Everyone is a vile sinner that has disobeyed and spat in the face of God. No one deserves salvation.
Regeneration by the spirit takes place in the elect person at some point in their lives. These people that have the Holy Spirit are chosen before the foundation of the world. God cares for these people, they never leave his sight. But as for the reprobate God will send panic and dread upon them. They will feel God's wrath and fury in this life.. and the next..
Everything comes back to God. It's all about him. It's all about Jesus. Being chosen is the best thing that can happen to someone. The elect will know that they have God on their side. The non-elect cannot hear the voice of God nor will they want to in their fallen state. They are the enemies of God predestined for eternal torment. If you have God's Spirit in you then the Bible will come to life! The Psalms are awesome because it talks about the hope of the righteous and the downfall of the wicked. If you know truly that you are saved and reading this then I look forward to seeing you in heaven :) Things might be tough now but don't worry the Lord will always watch over you. You are being regenerated by the Spirit each day for a greater hope.
Thank you God for choosing me. A vile sinner. Never caring or wanting God in the first place. But by his Spirit I have been made new. Not by my own doing. But by his power and his power alone. I didn't choose God nor have the will to do so. He chose me and... yes FORCED me into his Kingdom. But I couldn't be happier :)
He teaches that It's 100% impossible for the nonelect to be saved being predestined to perish? and also that God offers salvation for all? Ah nah. People think about this?
Orioncoat.... you are so naive it is PAINFUL to see.
God offers salvation to "all" (or to the world) meaning BOTH the Jew and the Gentile.
You cannot hope to understand the MEANING of a passage unless/until you FIRST
are able to (1) discern the CONTEXT of the passage and (2) harmonize your doctrine
with ALL RELATED passages.
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Remember child... when you believe the passages you LIKE and you reject (or ignore)
the contradictory passages you don't like.... then it is not the Gospel you believe, it is
only your "feelings" that you believe.
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www.5thkingdomofheaven.com/chapter-1
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@@wisevirgin3405 If he naive is probably because he is predestine to be naive according to your theology, right?
Total double speak! Calvanist want to eat their cake and have it too! Run from Calvanism! Run!
@@jorgemoreno5007 It is not Calvinism, it is in the scriptures, read Romans and Ephesians.
Being of the world has to do with those in sin, not that all people are universally saved. The general gospel call is to all, but it is only effective for the elect because of God's regenerating grace. John 6:37-40, John 10. The question is why do some respond. God is sovereign. God's grace is the reason.
He answered that like a politician. I’ll stick with the gospel that says we are all born in sin and in need of a savior. Jesus is the only way.
2Co 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
Joh 4:42 And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.
1Jo 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world
Psalm 130: 3 If thou, LORD, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand?
4 But there is forgiveness with thee, that thou may be feared.
1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
The Lord cannot be the Saviour of all men if He choses who is going to be saved and who is not.
What about those who die without hearing the gospel? How did they get to choose?
@@firstname713 God will judge righteously and take account of everything. Those that believe are the Bride of Christ and will be in the New Jerusalem on the new earth. Those under the law are judged by the law. Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) 16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel........2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad......Matthew 5:3 ¶ Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
@@marcusrose8971 You did not answer my question. If we choose God, how did those who never heard the gospel have the opportunity to choose to be saved? They didn't. The only reason i am asking is because i absolutely believe God chooses us and we do not choose him. My question is directed at those saying God does not have predestined elect who are saved.
@@firstname713 They cannot choose. Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?......17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. I believe in dispensational truth. The law was until John the Baptist. Those under the law are judged by the law and those gentiles who never had the law by conscience. In the New earth as I see it Rev 21, you have the church (Bride of Christ) in the New Jerusalem Its foundations have the 12 apostles inscribed on them. And outside but with access to the New Jerusalem you have Israel which believed. (The names of the 12 tribes inscribed on the gates) (The parable of the wedding and bridesmaids Matt 25. Those that were not ready were shut outside. I believe they will be among the Nations. Re 21:26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. Jesus said in my Fathers house are many dwelling places. That may not be the orthodox way of looking at it but to me the best way to balance scripture.
1 Corinthians 15:1-4
Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Very simple God is just, does not pick and choose, but he knew before all things who will reject him so they called non elect God didn’t unelected those but they unelected themselves- Jesus died for the whole world so in the DAY OF THE LORD they cannot argue Why aren’t they.
That is not what Piper teaches
What about those who die without hearing the gospel? How did they get to choose?
@@firstname713 The real question is whether ANYONE would ever choose God at all. Romans 3:10-17.
@@douglasmcnay644 I don't believe humans can see the beauty of Christ without His grace, so no.
@@firstname713 Exactly so you answered your own question brother. If God is the only one who can bring us to Him, then those who had no opportunity to hear are those who were not chosen to hear. In Gods sovereignty and Infinite wisdom we cannot fully comprehend the decisions He makes, all we know is that it all works out for His good, and He remains blameless and faultless. (Ephesians 1:11) (Romans 9:18) (Romans 9:20)
We are all non elect until we repent and come to believe. God is not a respecter of persons.
This makes no sense though .. because if the elect was chosen to believe .. the non elect have to decide themselves ? This kinda raises a flag for me .. because if God only chose a certain kind of people to believe but not others...and if faith as a whole is given by God alone... They cannot decide without his hand. So they are condemned reguardless.
1 John 2:1-2: "My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father-Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."
Sounds like you just understood John 3:18
Gen 25:23 And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.
Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
(Romans 9:6-21)makes it clear on this matter . Before God there are kinds of people, those born naturally or ordinary and children of the promise.Sons of the promise are the ones who are the sons of God, for heavenly kingdom. John 1:12-13;17:23)
@KTTGHMTJWYCBLAC The process is found below.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
.
Jesus said “ I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the zFather but by me. No one comes to me unless the Father draws him and in no way will he be cast out.
Christ didn't die for the non-elect. He died for His sheep.
tl;dr version: Jesus's sacrifice on the cross was sufficient to redeem everyone but it was not intended for everyone, only the elect. There was a debt to pay, He paid it in full and MORE. #TULIP
He atoned for their sins. Thus saith THE LORD!
I agree with Pastor John on most of his points. But not on this one. You simply can’t read the Bible and get predestination out of it. John 3:16 says “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” That word whosoever means anyone who calls on God, repents of their sins, and accepts that Jesus’ death was the perfect sacrifice for their sins will be saved. Anyone who hears the Gospel can do that. God doesn’t just pick or call some and not others. God says it isn’t His will that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. There’s just no legitimate Biblical basis for predestination. That creates a God who is hateful, and cruel. God is a loving God who cares for the whole world. Not just certain people. The term “the elect” in the Bible simply refer to those who have already accepted salvation. It doesn’t mean that only certain people can be saved. That idea is just dumb. And as I said, there is no legitimate Biblical argument for predestination.
When God speaks of the world, he is not referring ALL but sons of heaven, children of the promise and not ordinary or natural children(John 1:12-13;6:44; 17:23;Romans 9:6-26)
Have you read Romans 9?
What about those who did not have the opportunity to hear the gospel? How did they get to choose to believe?
Read Romans 9 brother and ask God for understanding. I empathize with where you are coming from, but we must separate our feelings from the truth and sovereignty of the Creator. Some may see it as cruel and hateful but that would infer that we think our way is more beneficial than the way of God which is foolish because He is the only perfect, holy and transcendent being. We are naturally sinful so we cannot esteem our way over the way of God.
I agree with you
Here is some more from Calvin on the extent of the Death of Jesus Christ
John 3:16
“That whosoever believeth on him may not perish. It is a remarkable commendation of faith, that it frees us from everlasting destruction. For he intended expressly to state that, though we appear to have been born to death, undoubted deliverance is offered to us by the faith of Christ; and, therefore, that we ought not to fear death, which otherwise hangs over us. And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found in the world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life”
John 1:29
“Who taketh away the sin of the world. He uses the word sin in the singular number, for any kind of iniquity; as if he had said, that every kind of unrighteousness which alienates men from God is taken away by Christ. And when he says, the sin Of The World, he extends this favor indiscriminately to the whole human race; that the Jews might not think that he had been sent to them alone. But hence we infer that the whole world is involved in the same condemnation; and that as all men without exception are guilty of unrighteousness before God, they need to be reconciled to him. John the Baptist, therefore, by speaking generally of the sin of the world, intended to impress upon us the conviction of our own misery, and to exhort us to seek the remedy. Now our duty is, to embrace the benefit which is offered to all, that each of us may be convinced that there is nothing to hinder him from obtaining reconciliation in Christ, provided that he comes to him by the guidance of faith.”
Romans 5:18
“He makes this favor common to all, because it is propounded to all, and not because it is in reality extended to all; for though Christ suffered for the sins of the whole world, and is offered through God's benignity indiscriminately to all, yet all do not receive him”
VERY CLEAR that John Calvin believed that Jesus Christ Died for ALL MEN WITHOUT EXCEPTION, which is the ENTIRE HUMAN RACE!
Beginning of video the facilitator said something like "us calvanists" was he referring to himself and John Piper? Is this a calvanist podcast
while this podcast doesn't only speak about calvinism, the speakers on the podcast are calvinists
Yes, they are Calvinists. I'm a Catholic listener who loves listening to John Piper, but this is one of the several episodes in where I disagree with him strongly.
He is referring to millions of people who follow the reformed theology which in Gods very words is quoted in the bible and there are no red letters in the bible quoting God for free will. he foreknew you and knew before you were born if you would follow Him.
I understand. I to reviled against this theology until I decided to study it thoroughly to see for myself the inconsistencies. Get yourself a red letter bible and search where anywhere does God say anything about Free will. God knows everything. He knew you before the EARTH WAS CREATED. EVERY HAIR ON YOUR HEAD. CHRIST DIED FOR EVERYONE. YOU ARE CORRECT HOWEVER WHAT YOU ARE NOT SEEING IS THAT THE NARROW GATE IS JUST THAT. VERY NARROW. It is His creation that wants nothing to do with Him. What I went in to find wrong has shown me that it is very biblical and goes against the seeker friendly church where its about good music and feel good. Its serious enough to do it. I have sen several because of what I found do the research, and all of them found the same thing as I. God bless.
Much of what was said concentrated on the elect rather than the non elect. Because of God's love, being compassionate and forbearing to the perishing, 1 Timothy 2:4 "who wants all people to be saved and come to the knowledge of truth." Even Jonah was taught about compassion to the perishing, not only in words, but gave his beloved son, Christ Jesus as a sacrifice, (sign of Jonah in the fish belly) died on the cross, and ressurected on the third day for the forgiveness of sin (John 1:29) "The lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world," which say sin in the singular, i.e. unbelief in God incarnate, Christ Jesus, creator of heaven and earth, resulting in unrighteousness outlined in Romans 1 & 2 thus covers everyone born in this world so that (John 3:16a) God so love the world out of compassion, is the sense Christ died for the non-elect and is no different to the elect. Did not Jesus, after his ressurection visited the unbelieving antedulivians who were in prison to proclaim that he died for them (1 Peter 3), and are without excuse.
He didn’t answer the question. Nine minutes of building up to one sentence: “We could never talk like that [with words of hope and salvation] to the non-elect if Jesus hadn’t died the way he did.” What does it matter if they have no ability to believe?
We don't KNOW who doesn't have the ability to believe. That's why we talk to anyone and everyone in hopes that they do, is what he's saying.
kab00mKap0w is it up to you?
1 John 2:1-2: "My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father-Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."
The “predestination “ the bible speaks about is God allowing gentiles into the family of God. The Jews thought of gentiles as dirty and unclean and Paul is convincing them that this has been Gods plan all along, to allow gentiles (all of us who aren’t Jewish ie: the whole world) into His new covenant.
Men sure know how to complicate things....lol
When Jesus teaches [Mat 13] that the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven" consists of BOTH
many unsaved "tares" (sown by Satan) and relatively few saved "wheat/sheep" (sown by God)
That demonstrates that nobody can pretend to understand the MEANING of any passage
unless/until they first understand the CONTEXT of the passage.
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To one group (the "wheat/sheep) Jesus PROMISED eternal life.
To the other group ("tares/goats") Jesus PROMISED eternal torment.
If you don't understand the CONTEXT... you cannot understand the MEANING.
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God so loved "the world" (both Jew and Gentile)
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You are preaching "another gospel" child.
The True Gospel teaches that ORIGINAL SIN resulted in NO MAN seeking God [Rom 3:10]
That NO MAN can come to Jesus unless the Father first "draws them" [John 6] in fact, when
the disciples realized that Jesus was teaching salvation by "election" then many of them
immediately abandoned Christ [John 6:65-66]. Now WHY would many disciples abandon
Him? Because they wanted a salvation plan where THEY were in control.
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www.5thKingdomofHeaven.com
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The answer according to scripture is that in addition to the 'elect' ( those chosen to rule with Christ in heaven) Paul stated "There is going to be a resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous|" ( Acts 24:15) If the Kingdom of God is to herald in a 'new heavans & a new earth" ( As Isaiah & Peter stated) then "The inhabited earth to come" ( Heb 2:5) will included such people. ( Rev 5:10)
Okay, I do not understand this question. Christ died for ALL men. ALL sin. It is our choice on whether or not to accept that gift of salvation. How can you partially die for some or something? Christ died for all mankind.
They are trying to reconcile it with the Calvinist doctrine of Limited Atonement
The best way I can explain my view on this is that from God's perspective He died to save the elect that the bible says he foreknew and predestined to salvation. But, from our human viewpoint anyone that hears the gospel can be saved, for He died for everyone who hears and accepts Jesus as savior. I believe the bible gives us glimpses of both the divine and human perspective of salvation. Basically all people can be saved, but God knows those who will be saved, he would not be omniscient otherwise.
@@BereanBeliever86 is the word omniscient used in the Bible?
Jesus died so that anyone "could" be saved. If He hadn't died, no being (human, angels or otherwise) had any chance of being saved.
Only those who hear His voice ARE saved.
No Child... it is not "our choice" because the Bible clearly says
that NO MAN seeks God and that NO MAN can come to Christ
unless the Father first "draws them".
---------
George Carlin said it best! Keep thy religion to one's self!
Except we are commanded to preach the gospel to every tribe, tongue, and nation.
@@douglasmcnay644 Yes. The enemy tells us to be quiet, but not the HOLY SPIRIT.
Not all men without exception, but all men without distiction.
More nonsense
@@jorgemoreno5007 We shall see
I’m a Christian who has struggled for many years with the following question: In the beginning, when it was just God, He knew who would accept Him and who would reject Him through free will.
Why could God not just create those who would accept Him through free will and not create those who would reject Him through free will, thus saving those who rejected Him from eternal punishment?
We have no authority to question that which is the Sovereign Will of God. We must only submit and serve and praise God for even saving those whom He chose to save.
First, although this may not completely answer your question, your question does relate to the debate betwen infralapsarianism, sublapsarianism and supralapsarianism (the order in which God decreed the fall, election and salvation.
www.gotquestions.org/lapsarianism.html
Second, regarding how you framed your question, (and I'm not trying to argue, only pointing out a fact) whether you intended it or not, your question actually presumes another position within the discussion (argument) regarding election. Although there are various positions on the question of man's "Free Will" vs God's Sovereign Election, there are two main positions:
1. Arminianism - Basically, although all are sinners, by God's prevenient grace all people have the opportunity to choose, by their free will, to believe or not.
God's election is based on what He knows people will do.
www.gotquestions.org/arminianism.html
2. Sovereign Election (Calvinism) - All people are in such a fallen state of sin that NObody "chooses"God becaue NObody WANTS to choose God. And therein lies the problem. Apart from GOD electing and by His grace giving SOME the desire (the "Want to" ) to seek Him and Believe (by His Spirit) nobody would seek Him and ALL would be lost. In this case it is God who decided before the foundation of the world which people HE would set His love upon, call to Himself and give His Spirit so that we WILL come to Him.
In Sovereign Election:
*All Have sinned and fallen short of God's glory and are worthy of His judgment.
*SOME receive God's mercy and grace so that they believe (mercy and grace are not owed to anyone)
*SOME receive God's justice and are held accountable for their sin (judgment IS owed. We've ALL earned it but thankfully some will not receive it)
*NObody receives injustice from God.
Again, your question presumes that Arminianism is true. I believe Arminianism is erroneous and therefore your question is not valid. God created the world, he KNEW that man would fall and that ALL people would deserve His judgment. If The LORD had not decided to give mercy to some, and decided to distribute only His justice then ALL people of ALL time would go to hell.
Remember the parable of the workers in Matthew 20. The landowner only OWED what was DUE. Anything He decided to give beyond that, even to people who did not deserve it, was HIS business, not ours.
Here's a primer on God's Sovereign Election:
www.ligonier.org/learn/series/chosen_by_god/what-is-free-will/
rolysantos Thank you for this thoughtful and comprehensive response. I will investigate further the answers you offer and also follow the links you provided. Blessings to you.
@@rolysantos When you say you believe a doctrine that says no one chooses God, you don't believe all scripture. You do not believe God.
God cannot take you in because you don't believe all of His word...and here's the part where God confuses the ones who will not obey Him...and you will not let God Himself, the Holy Spirit teach you the whole truth.
We do choose, scripture says so.
You can use all the doctrines you want, but Christians choose to believe the Bible, and let God explain it to them.
You have chosen not to believe the Bible, as God teaches it.
You embraced doctrine, but forgot to embrace God, the Teacher of all truth.
@@michaelalbertson7457 No Michael.
Christian’s need to stop reading Gods word like chilfdren and move on from elementary teachings as Hebrews 6 admonishes. Unless and until you do, You are the one who doesn’t believe what Gods word actually says.
Yes, the Bible speaks in many places of “choosing,” but guess what the problem is Michael NOBODY does!
How many people “chose” God in the OT Michael? GOD says exactly zero!
ALL we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned, EVERY ONE to his own way;
Read Ezekiel 6. GOD saved a remnant because HE chose to spare “some.”
Isaiah testifies and Paul quotes him that Unless THE LORD had left us a remnant we would have been like Sodom ….Isaiah 1:9, Roman’s 9:29
Exactly zero would have survived.
Free will is the PROBLEM in salvation Michael.
It failed in the garden
It failed in the Old Covent
Read Hebrews 8
God found fault with The PEOPLE.
They turned away from him (by their corrupt free will) so He turned from them
How did God solve the problem of man’s corrupt free will?
He gives us a summary of the NEW covenant in Jeremiah 32:40
I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from doing them good; but I will put My fear in their
hearts so that they will not depart from Me.
Do you see it Michael?
GOD puts His fear in them SO THAT (for the purpose of) they will NOT depart.
How does GOD do this?
Read Ezekiel 36.
HE takes away hearts of stone (the ones ALL of us have. The hearts that do NOT choose Him) And HE GIVES a heart of flesh that DOES choose Him!
Read the rest of Hebrews 8.
GOD puts His law into hearts and minds (same ideas as Ezekiel 36) in order to bring people to faith AND keep them.
We are born again by GOD’s Free Will Michael
(Matthew11:27, James 1:18)
Here’s the bottom line Michael.
If YOU chose God and the other person did not and he died in a state of unbelief
What or WHO made the difference?
Was God the final difference
Or
Was it something about You that made the difference?
Even the love of God can only save those who believe, those who accept and receive that love. God and man relationship is based on freewill acceptance of covenant, depending on the importance you give to the good news of salvation.
Satan lived with God, saw the full glory of God, yet he rebelled. And he will punished for that.
That which has been possible with angels, is possible with men as well.
John3:36
"Whoever believe in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him"
Guy, as humans, we better seek the Lord and meet his requirement: Believe and you will be saved.
Don't speculate otherwise, don't speculate for others in ways that are not provided in the Bible. Preach the Gospel of salvation, do your part, let God do his!
We cannot understand all the wisdom of God.
Deuteronomy 29:29
"The secret thing belong to the LORD our God, but the thing that are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of his laws."
This make me understand that we are not fashioned to explain everything. Therefore, we should not even pretend to explain everything.
The thing only true key is to BELIEVE even when we don't understand, then PREACH
LOVE YOUR REPLY...ALTHOUGH I DO BELIEVE WE CAN ASK GOD ABOUT THINGS IN HIS WORD THAT WE NEED CLARITY ABOUT....
Yvan.... you are so naive it is PAINFUL to see.
After the ORIGINAL SIN our nature was to sin... our "free will" was to sin.
The Bible clearly teaches [Rom 3:10, Rom 9, John 6, Ephesians 1 & 2]
That NO MAN can come to God unless He first "draws them" and
ALL MEN the Father draws "shall come"... and Jesus loses NONE
of "His sheep".
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www.5thKingdomofHeaven.com
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That's like saying God provided water sufficient for the thirst of the whole world, but it was only effectual for those to whom God enabled to be able to drink of it.
God is all knowing. He know you before you were born and knew if you would believe and follow Him or not. He knows everything. The vast majority of the population want nothing to do with Him. The water example doesnt work in this example
@@rubessumtertius6358 That's it? That's the best that God can do? So Satan, Sin, and the Death get the spoils and run circles around God. Based on this view God is powerless against the power of Satan, Sin, and Death. God can't get his way, and there is nothing more that he can do.
No it's a matter of understanding our sin. God knows everything. God knows the end from the beginning. Let's take the present population for example. The world has 6 billion people. Out of all denominations and those who dont believe Christian's make up 33% out of that 33% 17.5 are Catholics. Now we know Catholics are not christian so the Holly Sprit is not there. Removing the false Christian church an dd's the seeker friendly movement leaves 2% of the population. What this means is that only 2% are saved that's 120 mill UK on at the present time. The narrow gate is just that. God knows those who would choose Him. It's very biblical and all throughout the Bible in Gods words. There is no place in the bible where God Himself speaks of free will. Hope that helps.
God is all knowing. He knew who would choose him before time and knows the end. Its very biblical and in many places throughout the bible in Gods words. No one place in the bible does God in His words say anything about free will. Hope that helps.
It would have been better NOT to have done this video because it didn't answer the question
Or I should say it did the opposite
From John's answer - Christ died for the non elect to show his love for the Elect that believe.
But sir, how does this benefit the non elect other than highlight their rejection and increase their anger towards God for not electing them?????
The video is correct and with some doctrinal study it allows us to understand it perfectly without fighting it because those who fight it ussually have a purpose of seeing their ways of marketing attacked by this doctrine. Study the elect. Its really simple if you believe that your God knows everything and sees the end from the beginning.
I understand. I to reviled against this theology until I decided to study it thoroughly to see for myself the inconsistencies. Get yourself a red letter bible and search where anywhere does God say anything about Free will. God knows everything. He knew you before the EARTH WAS CREATED. EVERY HAIR ON YOUR HEAD. CHRIST DIED FOR EVERYONE. YOU ARE CORRECT HOWEVER WHAT YOU ARE NOT SEEING IS THAT THE NARROW GATE IS JUST THAT. VERY NARROW. It is His creation that wants nothing to do with Him. What I went in to find wrong has shown me that it is very biblical and goes against the seeker friendly church where its about good music and feel good. Its serious enough to do it. I have sen several bewcause of what I found do the research, and all of them found the same thing as I. God bless.
JD -
I believe you've therein answered the very question you've presented;
John's answer in the video to be exact * Christ died for the non-elect to show his love for the elect that believe.
This is clearly straight from the Word (Romans 9:22, 23) in order that He might show, ...
In the question you've presented you've assumed that God somehow owes us something or we must have "benefit" from Him.
It is a great mystery isn't it?
Christ died for the forgiveness of all sin All are forgiven.
The way I see it, and someone can correct me if I am wrong, is that we do not have the knowledge of the elect. It's God who does, and let's be content about it. I am glad I don't know who the elect are versus who the non-elect are, so I will preach the Gospel to all, regardless. I am only a farmer scattering seeds, the good ground will receive it, the bad ground won't, the thorny ground will kill it. There is peace to know that God is the one who produces the harvest, not me. That's the parable that helps me understand election. Opinions are welcome, though.
God chooses who he wants to be his and he also calls all to be with him some he just handpicked bcus he knew our hearts will be with him and we'd accept him so easily but others he calls them to come to him but many reject him sadly
I think Yahweh goes by how we'd respond to Yeshua and who would accept him or not
John 3:17 ALL, but not all will except Christ. If you can go from the beginning to the end of age then you know who will and who won't. Therefore you can pre Destin before they're born. All can be saved but not all will.
I'm a CALVA-MINIAN.
I smiled. Needed that, thanks
@@justaguy653 I think "smiling" is just what the doctor has ordered, and I mean the great physician above, for at time I do wonder if He shakes his head in displeasure over the enormous gobs of commentary "man" has fabricated in an attempt to professionally articulate positions that, while interesting to ponder, have very little practical efficacy. Man is a sinner and in need of a Savior, plain and simple. Jesus said, "Go!" and preach the Gospel, which is: "And He is the propitiation for our sins, and not our sins only, but for the sins of the WHOLE world." Yup, I'm a Calvi-minian", or maybe I'll change that to Calvi-minion". Let me pray about that. :)
@@peterpulpitpounder again, thanks for the smile. I needed that more than you may know. He surely works in mysterious ways and uses those for his purpose whether they are aware of it or not.
I pray you continue your walk with Him. God bless brother.
@@justaguy653 Well, your words today brought a smile to my face as well. So appreciative of your kind and thoughtful words. Keep lookin' up! Here's a link to a video I created... I hope you can open and view it: facebook.com/peter.grenier.9/videos/10218235720872066/
@@peterpulpitpounder
You mean a 'calminian'?
I was called that 30 years ago...hmmm
Jesus died for His sheep! He did not die for anyone else!
If God has elect, then there is no possible way for them to escape the reach of Christ, because God is large enough to save them. So how does preaching the gospel benefit those that are not elect, and how is it needed for those that are elect? The parable of the talents can explain the second question, but I'm still having trouble with the first.
In response to your question regarding the purpose of gospel preaching to the elect, consider this: ruclips.net/video/o_TxBpyLokU/видео.html
God bless,
TETH
If God has elected some few and rejected the rest of humanity who will end up in hell and be tormented for eternity, then he is unjust and evil as fuck.
1 John 2:1-2: "My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father-Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."
@@iamfunnyipromise9605 this god is an asshole haha
@@jeffreylardizabal3964 so according to this verse we can kill babies use drugs even bomb others get Jesus well advocate for us amm great deal
"sense"? In the same "sense that He died for the WHOLE WORLD!
I have several friends who belong to sects that follow Calvinism. Ive recently for the first time checked into their doctrines and am shocked at how truly unbiblical I found it to be!
Yes, Calvinism really is a cult that denies Jesus’ atonement, and preaches a false salvation.
While Calvinists won’t admit it, they believe in salvation outside of Christ. Ultimately, they believe one is truly saved by God prior to creation through their view of “election.” It’s problematic, because it turns Jesus into a mere formality or afterthought, not a necessity.
I have never seen a doctrine that so fatally contradicts itself.
I have several friends that follow the Armenian doctrine, and they think that God is like man and so they make out a doctrine to follow their own feelings and not follow God’s word. I pray for them.
I am confused now. My understanding of Calvinism is that God has predetermined who the elect will be, so there is no way for a person who is not elect to "choose" to become elect by accepting Jesus. Listen to all the sermons you like, but your destiny is fixed. A non-elect individual might *think* he or she is elect, but there is no way to change categories really. (And maybe that individual is not walking through the difficult "narrow gate" in the way of the actuallly elect.) In that case, Jesus really didn't die to save that non-elect person, as they are pre-destined to be among the lost (even though they don't know it in this hypothetical).
The reason to minister to them is because all people (elect or not) should be brought as close to God as they can be NOT because they benefit from it (as they will not personally benefit from Jesus' sacrifice) but because God deserves their worship (independently of whether they will receive any benefit from the death of Jesus.)
If there is free will, and the unsaved can in fact learn to accept Jesus and "become saved" though they were unsaved before, THEN I see how Jesus' sacrifice was for them...Jesus has given them an equal opportunity for salvation (even if salvation isn't guaranteed). But that isn't Calvinism. Calvinism has no "equality of opportunity" because your salvation was determined by God long ago and you cant change it.
Right? (I assume not, but I don't understand how I'm wrong.)
You're right, there's no getting around it, and the fact that so many are oblivious to what scripture actually says is appalling.
You're confused because Piper is confused
That’s exactly what Calvanism teaches. It’s all double-speak! Run from Calvanism!!!
What is the Calvinist interpretation of:
"And I [Jesus], when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself." (John 12:32)
Pastor John, I’m normally blown away by your insight, but I have to say this was not convincing at all. Either God loved the whole world, or He didn’t. Forgive me, brother, but it felt like you were grasping for straws here.
exactly! some things he speaks on sound ok, and others like this. He's just plain wrong
1 John 2:1-2: "My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father-Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."
@@edwincastillo8280 this is why Christianity makes no sense
@@abisamraj4408 Well it seems this problem is really restricted to Calvinism rather than Christianity as a whole
Nichole MacCalley How about this. God loved the whole world and gave his only son to give salvation. Key to heaven. What do we do with that key? Throw it away? Surely many people do. Atheists other religion etc. faith without deed is nothing. What do we as christians do in life? Just believe that we r saved and do nothing about it? Dont we have everyday struggle either to help that old lady cross the road or keep self from wanting to cuss out reckless drivers, giving a homeless guy a buck or two. All those things happening in our lives r what makes us who we r. God is overseer everything that we do that ultimately lead us to the eternal life. Dont think deeds r works and therefore thats a “works salvation”. We r to follow footsteps of jesus and obey God. But of course anyone knows doing wjat the bible teaches us to do is impossible to our minds. That is why we need God every moment of our loves. If we werent saved, why would we have this ever lasting struggle and effort to live a godly life? No one is gon be perfect in this world. Its the struggle to try and be like jesus that our life shows the fruits that is important. I think its these types of people that are the non elect he came to serve and showed that God loves the whole world. Dont dismiss things in bible becuz it doesnt make sense or throw it out the window cuz its impossible or dont suit “ our” lifestyle or taste. Its rude to do that. I think the whole point is that lifelong struggle and longing for God is what ultimately describes who we r ought to be at the end when jesus returns. God knows we aint never gon be perfect at least in this world. Its the recognition of our imperfection, our pride and therefore truly trusting and laying everything at Gods feet to let him lead us knowing he is the light. We grow everyday. Dont let the world confuse u or dont let confusion in urself be the reason to have a doubt on the bible or God. Evil works daily too.
My view on this is that Christ died for the elect, and makes atonement for their sins only. It is a "particular atonement", not a general atonement. Otherwise we would have a part to play in our own salvation, in the sense that we were "wise enough" to believe in Christ whereas other people were not wise enough. We would be saved because of our intellect, and ability to reason the truth out from those who couldn't. The bible doesn't say this, it says "you must be born from above". Salvation is a gift from God the Father who chose in advance who he willed to save. Hard to grasp but this is what the bible teaches. Some people are predestined to Salvation, and blessed beyond comprehension are these people whom God has chosen, and for whom Christ died. I pray with all my heart that I am amoungst their number.
Jesus died for everyone, but everyone doesn't believe it. To receive salvation and the blessings, one must believe. Only those who believe are saved. John 3:16
God knows in advance who will believe.
We don't know who will come to believe or when.
We plant the seeds. Another waters, and another makes them grow.
The seeds are the words of the Gospel. The water is the spirit working in believers. The one who makes them Grow is YHWH (God).
Thank you for praying for me
Amen
Man is not the determinator of his own soul. God created our world knowing Adam would sin, and has endured sin SO THAT those who HE wants to be with him for eternity will be given eternal life. And many of God’s elect are not born yet. So He endures sin and hates sin. But when the elect sin or see sin, it points to the cross. And we are GRATEFUL for being saved.
Christ died for all in the same way.
Jonathan Grandt Then why are they not all going to heaven / Then why do they not all believe?
What about those who did not have the opportunity to hear the gospel? Did he die for them in the same way?
Hence the Great Commission
I hope someone out there can relate or can answer. For 10 years I've been back and forth to God. 1 foot in both worlds but other times my heart is on fire for God and Christ. Ever so often I come across issues like this one that I have a very hard time finding truth on even thought I pray and devote my heart to finding the truth. During those times it makes me falter some but I always end up back on my feet and sternly back in the word. However this issue specifically has taken a toll on me because it's never answered or makes enough sense. When I hear that I could potentially not be an elect and that I could be predestined for hell no matter what I am defeated and slip back into more sin and it consumes me. I know the truth and I know how to take the narrow path and I want it so bad but it's like something that's not me takes over and does it anyways deliberately and repetitively even knowing the truth. I always hate myself for my sin after and turn back to God everytime. Sometimes in pure tears and anger of my actions, sometimes not even half hearted. My question is if I conquered my sins so I am not to do them deliberately and finally put both feet in heaven and trust solely in Christ but am not an elect of God does this mean I am going to Hell regardless?
Check out Leighton Flowers on debunking Calvinism. God Bless
The fact that "not being an 'elect' concerns you is evidence of the move of the Holy Spirit in you. Paul says "I tell you these things that you may KNOW that you have eternal life" so this is something that (by Faith) you can be assured of. You CAN know that you are saved. Feelings will always come and go. The longer you stand for Christ and exercise Faith (by standing against the ways of the world), the deeper your understanding and knowledge of your own eternal salvation will be imbedded in you.
If you trust solely in Christ then you are one of the elect.
Leighton Flowers is a very confused false teacher, Don't waste any time listening to him.
How about you read your Bible the truth is in there!
Christ died as an open invitation to all. the elect are those who accept. the non-elect don't. the bible says we are accountable without excuses, Calvinism gives them an excuse, they were not chosen.
He died for the non-elect as you refer to unsaved people every bit as much as for the elect as you refer to saved people. Here is just one of many verses that declare this truth: “and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.” 1 John 2:2.
Although I truly appreciate the blessings and teachings of Calvinist preachers like Piper, McArthur, Baucham, Dr White etc I have to respectfully disagree when it comes to the doctrine of Calvinism with limited atonement and the elect. The bible clearly tells us the father sent his only son for THE WORLD, that whoever BELIEVES in him shall not perish but have eternal life (John 3:16) Not that he was sent just for the elect, although the election is in essence the ones who end up CHOOSING to believe in Christ, which in turn become the elect as we become separated from the world. Calvinism becomes a dangerous doctrine which distorts Gods JUST but LOVING nature, because it's not much different from what the Hebrew Israelites believe in, in that only the bloodline of people with in a genealogy linked with blacks, and natiive Hispanics will be saved, and no-one else, which is their distorted view of 'the elect'. This teaching of Calvinism itself came into movement inspired by John Calvin in the 16th century, only a few hundred years ago. Which begs the question, if this wasn't a common view and what was taught amongst the early churches and early church fathers, why then should we believe God has changed what he has already revealed? Regardless of how respected, or popular a teacher is, our ultimate and only true teacher is, God himself, and what he has given to us through his word, and scripture.
At the end of the day, if you believe in limited atonement, you can never say "God loves you" and that "he died for you" to anyone, because you don't know that, let alone believe that. And that right there is the problem which contradicts scripture.
What a beautiful awesome thing. that we can preach the gospel to people that could never possibly be saved. :/
Ikr
From the human perspective, we have no idea who can or cannot be saved. So preach to everyone and believe that all who hear the gospel can be saved by faith.
@@BereanBeliever86 So true. We can say yes or no to God of our own will.
God just happens to know what we will do concerning that decision.
So, He judges justly. So should we. Micah 6:8 comes to mind.
so true.
Yes, it is a beautiful, awesome thing to preach the Gospel even to those who reject it. I agree.
I don't know about anyone else but Calvinism puts a fear inside me. It makes me think what if I'm deluding myself and maybe I'm not being real. What if I'm not one of the elect. I'll go to my death bed though saying I believe in Jesus and that he died for my sins on the cross. I believe I am born again because of the way my thinking and acting is now vs. the way it was before. I don't do the same thing's I use to. But Calvinism puts that doubt in my mind that maybe I'm not being real and I'm lying/deluding myself. What if it is part of God's plan somehow that I'm completely deluded and I'm going to burn in the LOF for eternity. I'm glad that I am saved. I get that in God's eyes he knows everyone who's going to accept Christ as their savior and who will be saved. Kind of like a movie...if you were to know that entire movie front to back and word for word and action for action. So it kind of makes sense that Christ may have died for everyone but He knows in advanced that not everyone is going to accept Him. It scares me to death though what if I wasn't chosen. What if I'm one of those that will be going to hell.
These thoughts are demonic. Calvinism breeds fear. Please know that no one is predestined for hell. We are all born in a unique human condition, ALL having the ability to hear the Word of God and believe, which is a gift from God. If you believe and repent, you are saved. Anyone may believe. Truly- anyone!
I dont believe that Bro. Piper intentionally takes these verses out of context... Of course the elect are those who repent and turn to Christ unto salvation. How one reads the Word and comes away with Reformed Theology is very mind blowing.
How a Calvinist can look at ANY/EVERY person and assure them that Jesus dies for them is oxymoronic.
It is way beyond your understanding. 😊
Awesome! I love how you changed john 3:16 to make it say what you wanted! Hahahaha.. he says " it should say"... press on heretic!.. then the guy at the end... "what a glorious gospel" run from these people plz!
I understand. I to reviled against this theology until I decided to study it thoroughly to see for myself the inconsistencies. Get yourself a red letter bible and search where anywhere does God say anything about Free will. God knows everything. He knew you before the EARTH WAS CREATED. EVERY HAIR ON YOUR HEAD. CHRIST DIED FOR EVERYONE. YOU ARE CORRECT HOWEVER WHAT YOU ARE NOT SEEING IS THAT THE NARROW GATE IS JUST THAT. VERY NARROW. It is His creation that wants nothing to do with Him. What I went in to find wrong has shown me that it is very biblical and goes against the seeker friendly church where its about good music and feel good. Its serious enough to do it. I have sen several because of what I found do the research, and all of them found the same thing as I. God bless.
If all sin is not atoned for then there is sin running around that has not been atoned for and the Creation in part is still under the curse. Christ died firstly as an offering to the Father before the Trinity brought it to the world. The victory had taken place before Pentecost, victory over sin, Satan and death.