Limited Atonement: What is Reformed Theology? with R.C. Sproul
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 8 июл 2024
- The most common view of the atonement of Jesus is that Jesus died for everyone-that is, all people from all places in all times, every single human being that ever existed. But in order to take advantage of the benefits of the cross, one must first believe to be saved. Such a view is attractive, until we take a closer look at it. Dr. Sproul will look at this view in light of Scripture in this message entitled “Limited Atonement.”
This is the 10th in a series of messages by Dr. Sproul on Reformed theology. See other videos in the series: • What Is Reformed Theol...
Own this series on DVD: www.ligonier.org/store/what-is...
Learn more about Dr. R.C. Sproul: www.ligonier.org/about/rc-sproul/
#ReformedTheology #RCSproul
My brain is exploding!! I just came out of years in a church that, yes taught the Word, BUT was in lots of error concerning signs and wonders, gifts, word of faith etc. We starting moving to more fundamental teachings, and then I find this beautiful man. I also found John Mc Arthur, and Voddie. So thankful for solid teachers. However I can barely grasp this new teaching which is obviously completely opposite what I learned. I believe it but wow I will have to listen to this and the other ones 20 more times to digest this. I love it and it will not stop me from sharing the gospel which I always have. But this is sooo comforting. He is sovereign and I love that so much. Fear of the Lord is leveled up big time hearing this.. lol God bless
John Macarthur is part dispensationalism theology and that's Bogus Arminianism. Carminiasm. Part Calvin and a bunch of Arminianism. 🤮
You are describing my very experience of just the last 2-3 months!!! Coming to the knowledge of the true Gospel, the true doctrine of salvation, the holiness of God, the Sovereignty of God, sanctification and the fear of God, after 17 years of charismatic teachings…
@@Ruby-22 justified by faith alone. Repentance is believing then Christ gives us His Faith. Galatians 3 22 KJV. Of is the preposition Paul used not in. Of means belonging to. 👍
@@Ruby-22 that is terrific news. Glad to hear your joy. ☮👍
Same here.. they're such a blessings!
Even in death God is using Dr. Sproul to bring people to Him. What a gift.
lol !
This video is full of extra biblical propositions and negative inferences to prove calvinism. It also shows rc and anybody else who affirms LA doesn't even know what the atonement does and doesn't do.
Seems more like a curse to me. God probably lets people like him have a legacy just to play around with all those who are foolish enough to actually listen to him.
It's very sad that you believe that let God be true and every man a liar as it is written that you might be justified in your sayings and that you might overcome when you are judged. the gospel that saves is 1corinthians 15:1-4 and it's for every creature and it's according to the scriptures not Calvinism or reformed theology Gods word doesn't need to be reformed and grace that is forced on anyone so called irresistible grace is not grace at all and to limit what Jesus has finished on the cross by dying for sin period not just individual sins of some people is disgraceful and keep in mind hell was not even prepared for men but for the devil and his angels men go there because they choose to reject the Son of the living God he came to his own and his own received him not a gift must be received John 1:12 not forced on anyone men are without excuse because God did give us hope by sending Jesus but again a gift must be received it's not Gods fault that some choose to believe and others don't how dare anyone put that on the loving God.
@@kevinramsey2636 That may be the longest sentence ever, taking so many words to show that you do not understand, or do not believe, the Scriptures. "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God."
These videos are the true blessing. R.C. Sproul is one of my favourite pastors-teachers. But we definitely are Christians firstly and then Calvinists. Knowledge is so important, but debating with the Arminian bretheren with love is more important. Greetings from Ukraine (Evangelical Reformed Presbyterian church of Odesa).
Clueless fake liae
You aren't anything but hoping for a reward
I hope you are ok over there. Just saw Odessa mentioned.
😢r guy😂iiji II 🎉I io🎉🎉
Amen! God did not, die for everyone, but indeed, His sheep!
Amen!
But Jesus said He came to seek and to save that which was lost and Paul said Christ died for the ungodly. If He only died for His sheep, does that mean the only ones that are lost and ungodly are His sheep? 🤔
Jesus declared "the limitation of salvation" when He declared that He was "The way, The Truth and the Life."
True, as far as that goes.
yeah that doesn't really have to do with the topic necessarily
He also said He that does not believe is condemned ALREADY
Its taken a long time for me to actually believe this truth. The pride I had in thinking me & the Creator had a certain closeness could not be broken by anyone or anything, until the Lord allowed me to see my real situation and empowered me to surrender to the truth that the true living God of the real Jesus Christ will be glorified in my complete annihilation as an unknown practitioner of lawlessness (Matt7:21-23) Glory to God. Work out your salvation with fear & trembling (phil2:12) for our God is a consuming fire (heb12:29)
No one is going to escape the fire, only the those consumed in 'Christ Alone'
That's because the bible, the Holy Spirit and common sense kept telling you that limited atonement is a lie. So it wasn't "pride" as your calvinist teachers kept telling you that was. So you let them overpower the word of God in your mind by brainwashing you. Look at 2 Peter 3:8-9 as Sproul teaches it, he lies and twists the scripture. What about 1 John 2:2 Jesus died for the sins of the whole world?" Romans 5, I could go on and on. You are confused. Put away the garbage theology books and READ your bible.
@@shakazulu365 🤦
@@shakazulu365 Who are the "any" Peter refers to?! That whole passage refers to the coming of the Lord not salvation. I trust the Lord will soften tour heart to understand His Word and humbly be corrected by it in time. At the moment you are reading into it the justification of all your predjudices rather than reading out of it the doctrines it teaches.
@@shakazulu365 The 1 John 2:2 verse you are referring to needs to be studied in line with the meaning God intended and which can be grasped when you read His Word in its entirety bearing in mind His doctrines this is why God gave to us Pastors, sound teachers of His Word Paul the Apostle being one of them who wrote Romans in line with God's plan of salvation in which we are taught predestination/election etc. So then 1 John 2:2 is talking of not only those who believed the gospel at the time of the epistle being written but all (the whole of) those who will yet believe the gospel and indeed those who believed in the coming of the Messiah from the old testament according to some commentaries.
You say read your Bible as if you couldn't possibly have it wrong and that you are in fact reading your Bible but are you willing to be taught by the Bible and it's doctrines? Which it is full of. Perhaps you should concentrate more on believing the Bible you claim to read!
@@shakazulu365 "Common sense"? No. Proverbs 14:12 states: 'There is a way that seems right to a man, but that is the way of sin and death'. If our salvation is dependent on our "common sense" we'd ALL be doomed.
The doctrine of calvanisim is ingrained throughout the entire word of God.. from beginning to end.
Can you empirically demonstrate your claim?
@@n.holt7 sure... where would you like to begin?
@@kal-elofkrypton8584 Well, let's start with the definition of Calvinism. Define it however you desire and then demonstrate that it is Scriptural.
@@n.holt7 ok.. well "calvanism" is just a name.. most people believe it started with John Calvin.. not so. Before him it was martin Luther.. before him it was Agustine. Its reformed theology... people have a problem with the doctrine of predestination because it paints God as being unfair.. but if you believe God is Holy.. then you have to believe hes just. Read Romans 9. Its about God revealing all his atributes. His Holiness as well as his justice. Those whom he has chosen to Grace recive mercy. The rest recieve Justice.
@@kal-elofkrypton8584 You gave the history of Calvinism (which I already knew), but not the definition, nor did you defend anything you said with Scripture. Saying, here read this, isn't demonstrating anything. I have read the book of Romans many times and the word predestination or predestined is not used in Romans 9. Is your definition of Calvinism, predestination? If so, please expound.
I have no problem with what Scripture says about God or His predestination. I have never seen it as unfair, nor is that the metric of validity. Furthermore your defense of God's justice is circular.
Who receives mercy and who receives justice? Is God not just in giving mercy to whom He will? Is that not what Romans 9 says? There is then no need for God to choose one to give mercy and the other justice, for He is both just and the justifier of those who believe. The Gentiles have received righteousness because they have believed, but Israel stumbled in unbelief.
What if God said that He wanted to have mercy upon all? Would you believe Him?
Predestination has nothing to do with the mercy/justice dichotomy as far as I am aware. I have never (including Romans 9) found a verse where predestination and mercy/justice appear in the same context.
Looking forward to the day that God calls me home and I get to join in eternal worship of Him, alongside RC.
i hope hes there...he'll need correcting first
@@englandshope689 what do you mean by that? Is that an accusation to him providing a false gospel?
@@ianhastie5785 calvinism is not the gospel. Calvinism has to be negatively infered onto scripture.
@@coryalbright9798 thats an incredibly illogical statement. Its a systematical theology based purely on methodical studies. To say it's not the gospel means that Calvin, Spurgeon, Luther, Augustin, Aquinas, Piper, MacArthur and many others even Matt Chandler have provided false gospels.
To say you're either calvinist or arminian does not determine whether or not you believe in the same Jesus, it's not the same comparison as if its the difference between a Christian and a Mormon.
@@ianhastie5785 Spurgeon said "calvinism is the gospel " nothing resembling calvinism can be found in scripture. that's the point I'm trying to make.
Like I said, the only way one can come to a calvinist interpretation anywhere in scripture is by negative inferences. The fact that most calvinists believe the L of tulip just shows a ignorance of scripture.
Salvation is for everyone who believes!!!!
Yes, only those who God has drawn to Himself will believe.
See John 1:13-born again by the will of God, not man’s. That sets the table for John 3:16, that is, St. John assumes you’ll have read chp 1 before chp 3 so you have the right reference point.
Ken Zeier No one is debating that we’re born by the will of God and not man.
100% God.
0% man.
AFTER you freely believe.
@@apilkey that would be a work on your part. Hmmm
Maximumbatspeed Faith is not meritorious according to the Word of God.
Maybe according to you it is, not not according to the Word of Truth.
So your claim holds zero weights and falls to the ground.
Foolish argument that’s not grounded in scripture but rather in your man made doctrine.
Paul clearly contrasts work with faith in Romans 3&4.
Did he not explain it thoroughly enough for you?
Should he have perhaps written another chapter on it?
ROMANS 3:27,28
27 Where is boasting then? IT IS EXCLUDED. By what law? of works? Nay: but by THE LAW OF FAITH.
***********************************
...According to Romans 3:22 the righteousness of God is upon all them that BELIEVE:
ROMANS 3:22
22 Even the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD WHICH IS BY FAITH of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that BELIEVE: for there is no difference:
**We’re not made righteous first so as to believe.
We BELIEVE unto righteousness.
***********************************
...According to Romans 3:28 Paul clearly contracts faith with works (deeds) of the law:
ROMANS 3:28
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified BY FAITH WITHOUT THE DEEDS OF THE LAW.
**Paul has concluded that faith is not a work, so why haven’t reformers come to this same conclusion that Paul and us Bible believers have?
***********************************
ROMANS 3:31
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW.
**When we act in faith according to God’s law and believe of our own freewill and not out of coercion we thereby do not countervail God’s sovereignty we actually FULLFILL IT!
WE ESTABLISH IT!
**********************************
...Paul clearly contrasts work with faith and faith NOT being a work in Romans 4:4,5:
ROMANS 4:4,5
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of DEBT.
5 But to him that WORKETH NOT, BUT BELIEVETH on him that justifieth the ungodly, HIS FAITH IS COUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
***********************************
ROMANS 11:6
6 And IF BY GRACE, THEN IS IT NO MORE OF WORKS: otherwise grace is no more grace. BUT IF IT BE OF WORKS, THEN IT IS NO MORE GRACE: otherwise work is no more work.
***********************************
...According to Romans 4:6 God imputed righteousness WITHOUT WORKS.
Faith again is clearly contrasted with NOT being a work:
ROMANS 4:6
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom GOD IMPUTETH RIGHTEOUSNESS WITHOUT WORKS,
**********************************
...According to Romans 4:9 FAITH was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness and NOT the other way around:
ROMANS 4:9
9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that FAITH WAS RECKONED TO ABRAHAM FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
RIP RCS. 😓
John 6:44 no one can come to me unless the father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up on the last day
Now quote the verse that says the father only draws certain people to the exclusion of others.
1974jrod this one
But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
- John 10:26-29
Read further he said when I be lifted up (crucified) I will draw ALL MEN
Kola Oj QUESTION: Is not being one of Jesus’ sheep an unchangeable situation?
ANSWER: No, because while Jesus acknowledged that they were not His sheep, He also said:
JOHN 10:37,38
37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, BELIEVE THE WORKS: THAT YE MAY KNOW, AND BELIEVE, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
Case in point in the very next chapter we see the story of Lazarus as a prime example of Jesus performing a miracle to the intent that they MAY BELIEVE.
...According to John 11:15 Jesus intent is clearly stated as being THAT THEY MAY BELIEVE:
JOHN 11:15
15 And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, TO THE INTENT THAT YE MAY BELIEVE;
...We clearly see at the very end of the account that Jesus’
very purpose as stated at the beginning in verses 15 and 42 was fulfilled and was successful in that many of the Jews that saw the miracle BELIEVED:
JOHN 11:45
45 Then many of the Jews which came to Mary, and had seen the things which Jesus did, BELIEVED on him.
************************************
...Then according to John 11:47,48 the chief priests and Pharisees fully recognized this; that it was through the working of such miracles that people WOULD BELIEVE.
**Even the Pharisees recognized that they believed because of witnessing the miracles and power of God:
JOHN 11:47
47 Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles.
48 IF WE LET HIM THUS ALONE, ALL MEN WILL BELIEVE ON HIM: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.
************************************
...According to John 12:17-19 When Lazarus was raised, they concluded that the testimony was so powerful, that the WHOLE WORLD would turn to Jesus:
JOHN 12:17-19
17 The people therefore that was with him when he called LAZARUS out of his grave, and raised him from the dead, bare record.
18 For this cause the people also met him, for that they heard that he had done this MIRACLE.
19 The Pharisees therefore said among themselves, Perceive ye how ye prevail nothing? BEHOLD, THE WORLD IS GONE AFTER HIM.
***********************************
...And a few verses earlier in John 12:11 we see again that by reason of him MANY OF THE JEWS BELIEVED:
JOHN 12:11
11 Because that by reason of him many of the Jews went away, AND BELIEVED ON JESUS.
***********************************
**So if John 10:38 is a meaningful encouragement to become one of His sheep, then reformers need to explain why, if being one of His sheep is otherwise an unchangeable condition.
Jesus is NOT saying they lack the ability to believe because they’re not elect, but because they ASSUME to be in God’s flock when they aren’t because if they were they would believe.
If they truly were of God they would listen to Jesus.
FALSE IDENTITY CLAIM is there problem not that they aren’t chosen.
Following Babylonian Talmud instead of OT.
They have a different authority that’s not really God even though they claim it is.
**Jesus’ statement is not a statement that they can’t believe or repent.
Jesus’ statement is SITUATIONALLY DECLARATIVE not fatalistic determinism statements.
Jesus’ statement declares a CIRCUMSTANCE not a divine decree.
Jesus’ statement is intended to INFORM not exclude.
QUESTION: What did Jesus mean when He said to them, “you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep”?
Is He indicating that they were non-elect, and that’s why they couldn’t believe in Him, and subsequently, that He did not give His life for them?
ANSWER: Jesus was not saying “Haha!” to them, and telling them that there was no hope, and that they were non-elect and that He didn’t die for them.
Rather, Jesus encouraged them, in that even though they didn’t believe in Him (because they weren’t His sheep), to look to the miracles anyway, which bears witness of Him. (John 10:38)
The fact that Jesus was encouraging them to believe, proves that their situation WAS CORRECTABLE, and refutes the notion that they were part of some fixed caste which can never be changed.
So you’re falsely assuming that those who are not one of Christ’s sheep in the beginning of chapter 10 have no chance on ever becoming one of His sheep and were eternally damned before the foundation of the world.
But scripture is against you and Jesus Christ Himself is against you in that they still COULD BELIEVE.
And as a result of the miracle of Lazarus we do in fact see many JEWS believing.
***********************************
...According to John 18:37 the reason is clearly stated WHY they won’t hear His voice and it’s not because of some eternal decree:
JOHN 18:37
37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. EVERY ONE THAT IS OF THE TRUTH HEARETH MY VOICE.
The unbelieving Jews were not of the truth.
This is why the Jews were so angry.
They were being told that they were not right with God.
I encourage you to read all of the book of John in context and not cherry pick certain passages out of John 10 and twist them to support your doctrine.
Aaron Pilkey
Well brother, seeing as you have encouraged me to look at things in context let’s do just that..
Firstly John 11 is not in the same context as John 10, neither is it covering the same topic of unconditional election and definite atonement. It is a totally different situation but we will address it none the less.
The context that is actually helpful is what precedes the verse in question (John 10:26). Now you have said that Jesus was declaring their current circumstance and not something which is fixed by God, or in your words an “eternal decree”. Therefore, according to your interpretation whether or not you are one of Christ’s sheep must be a question of whether or not you are currently a believer.
If this is so.. how then in verse 8 does Christ say:
“All who came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.”
This is a time before Christ had come into the world, or at least before He came into ministry so there were no believers in Christ yet, this we know because He says “all who came *before* me.” But then who were the sheep here? According to you, sheep can only be those who currently believe in Christ (a changeable circumstance), yet Christ has already identified the people of verse 8 as being sheep in a time which is prior to His coming and therefore prior to their belief.
Verse 16 our Lord says “I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd.”
Again, the Lord speaks in a *future* tense about those who He *presently* considers to be sheep. Specifically, this is a reference to Gentiles who were predestined to believe, yet were at that time far off as the gospel has not been preached to them, but the Lord says: they (the gentile sheep) *are* [present tense] His sheep, and they will [future tense] hear and be part of a fold (His people). According to your interpretation this is not possible because these people are yet to believe in Him. If being a member of the sheepfold is determined by whether or not faith in Christ is found in a person, how can there be members of the sheepfold prior to faith in Christ being possible?
I suspect at this point you will say that the sheep of the earlier parts of John 10 which I discussed are people who in the future would believe and so Christ is addressing them as sheep based on their future faith. You would be correct, but at the cost of you still having to concede that the sheep are *already* known and therefore when Christ says “you are not my sheep” in verse 26 he is saying you are not part of the sheep whom I *already know*. If he already knows who His sheep are/will be and he declares to some of the Jews “you do not believe because you are not part of My sheep” then that statement is in fact a pronouncing of judgment upon them. They will not hear his voice, they will remain in their unbelief, their evil rejection of the light of the world is evidence to Christ that they are not His own, and because of this He will not save them.
Why then does he go on to say “but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father.”
2 possible reasons and I think both are simultaneously correct:
1. When Jesus has his dialogue with these Jews they would not have all said in unison “how long will you hold us in suspense, if you are the Christ tell us plainly”. If they did that would be very weird. The phrase “they gathered around him and were saying” simply indicates the overall feel of the crowd of Jews. Maybe only one of them said the exact statement, maybe 20 of them agreed with it. Maybe 5 said something similar you just don’t know who said exactly what. Therefore when Jesus says to them “you are not my sheep” we don’t know if he is responding to a particular person/people out of the group or the entire group. Its unlikely that the recorded dialogue is between Jesus and every individual in the group of Jews. So when he instructs them to believe he very well could be speaking to some of them in the group who weren’t as hard of heart as the rest.
2. It is not unusual for God to instruct people who he knows will never obey His command, this is all over scripture. Just because Jesus tells them to “believe because of the works” this does not mean he thought that there was a possibility they could do it. Case and point is Pharaoh, how many times did God tell him to let His people go, knowing full well that he would never obey. If Pharaoh had obeyed, he would not have perished but God, though giving the instruction to Pharaoh did not give him the grace to fulfil the command nor was it in his plan for him to fulfil it and so it is written: “But, indeed, for this reason I have allowed you to remain, in order to show you My power and in order to proclaim My name through all the earth.” Exodus 9:16.
It never ceases to amaze me that people who hate the Calvinistic doctrines found in the bible itself, think that somehow these teachings contradict God’s command for everyone to repent and believe the gospel and the promise that whosoever will believe will be saved. Any true Calvinist pleads with sinners always to believe the gospel, to turn to God and be saved. We simply say that the “whosoever” who does heed the call was chosen and preordained by God to do so.. When we go out to preach the gospel we seek to preach to the spiritually dead, we are praying for God to give life to their dry and dead bones, to soften hearts of stone and we are confident that *He will* do so because *He has* said that *He will* draw men to Christ. We have no inside information as to who will be saved and who will not, we only know that whoever gets saved, gets saved because God chose them to be saved. So when you quote John 11 and 12 and any other scripture which indiscriminately instructs people to believe the Calvinist says AMEN.
Brother, before using such emotive language like “Jesus Christ Himself is against you” I would encourage *you* to take your theology to its natural conclusions and compare it with the God of scripture.
If you say predestination is evil because it has a God who chooses who he wants to save and excludes others before they’re even given a chance to respond to the gospel. Fine, then why did God not design the spreading of the gospel in such a way that every man woman and child could hear it all at the same time before they died. What about the Europeans, Africans, Asians, Australians who all died before the gospel could ever be preached to them are they not all in hell right now?
You say Christ died for every man, I ask you why is any man in hell? For if he bore the full wrath of God upon himself, and was made accursed on that tree for every man in the world then how can God send ANYONE to hell. If the penalty is paid it is paid regardless of faith.
Don’t twist scripture to make you feel more comfortable with what you do not understand “But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all generously and without reproach, and it will be given to him.”
- James 1:5
I pray God will help you understand these truths
The gospel is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes.
Indeed! Though only those God has chosen will believe. That is why there are many who until they die will not believe.
@@angeladyson7367 So God chooses those who are to go to hell .....this is false teaching
@@rocksoli4 false how? We’re all destined to go to hell if he didn’t step in and condemned by default, but graciously calls his sheep and won’t let go of them. Not by our own works at all, but by his loving mercy and grace will not let us go (you included). It leaves no room for those who believe to boast, but it is absolutely humbling knowing that he simply won’t let us go and all for his glory alone.
@@Romans--pe4yh So you are now special because God has randomly chosen you for heaven ....so what about those who are randomly chosen for hell? That's the big question? I believe this leads to pride and complacency. If God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.....Jesus said love your enemies but according to Calvinism in the words of John Calvin "God arranges things by his sovereign council in such a way that individuals are born who are doomed to hell and are to glorify God by their destruction"....there is no love in this misrepresentation brother.
@@rocksoli4 it doesn’t make me special at all because it’s entirely up to him and not me. To those chosen for hell, they are rightfully given over to their lustful passions. It’s not up to us to go out looking for the elect or the nonelect and decide “God hasn’t predestined you for this”. Misuse and a misunderstanding can definitely lead to pride, but a proper understanding is absolutely humbling. Jesus said for us to love our enemies, but that doesn’t contradict with what Calvin said.
I’ve been battling with this and picking a side when I’ve avoided it my whole life (even though I’m barely 22), and what made me finally decide was realizing that I was bringing my philosophical thought into the word of God instead of making the word have the last say because I didn’t want predestination to be true because it went against what I thought was the character of God. I then deconstructed and reconstructed with just scripture and in tears, because it went against everything I believed in and realizing that I’m absolutely deserving of nothing other than my own destruction, admitted that certain scripture was there that I had been avoiding because I didn’t want to be wrong and for the longest was unwilling to be real with myself and change my position if the word said otherwise
The atonement is effective only to the one who believes
Well, yeah. Why would it be effective to anyone else?
There is a small problem with that statement. Christ tastes death for everyone and defeats the power of the grave. Everyone ultimately rises from the grave. The atonement is effective for everyone.
@@vitaignis5594are you saying that everyone will be raised?
God the holy spirit what a teacher
And guide!
"All" means all, until a Calvinist doesn't want it to
Space cadet all have turned aside. Arminian atheists reject the Bibles true All's
You are evil and won't admit it
ALL means the elect the chosen ones the predestined the saints
@@davidochiengbuoga7165 exactly that's everyone ALL MANKIND in the end... The scripture couldn't be any clearer on this point....
@@brianbrodie8331 That is not true,ALL is for specific persons, the sons of the promise.
fantastic so clearly taught correctly by our dear Brother in Glory RC Sproul thank you Lord for Him
God gave us free will!!
He will not force us into anything against our will…..He wants us to come to Him willingly of our own choosing.
Believe your Bible not your past tradition..
By what standard are you defining ‘free will’?
Your free will is enslaved by sin... Your free will is useless against the power of sin, why on earth do you think we needed the cross....
Calvinism is right in saying that you must be drawn by God. The scripture says when Christ is lifted up all man will be drawn to God, not some, The scriptures are overwhelmingly clear and explicit on this point.
For some peculiar reason the Calvinist has come up with the stupidity and blasphemy of limited atonement by it's misconstruing of a few cherry picked versus, but negating the majority of verses on this topic. Limited atonement is just totally unbiblical in the light of all scripture and the character of God ...ie One only has to read Matthew 5 to see the folly of such a theology... It's amazingly mind-boggling, it seems that the Calvinists are intolerant to love. Very weird.
2 Corinthians 12:9 - And He has said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you
The
Every Knee Will Bow and Every Tongue Will Confess that Jesus Christ is Lord Hallelujah God Bless ✌
They haven't read that bit yet 🙄😅
I don't know why SOOOOOOOOO many people misinterpret 2 Peter 3:9. First of all, that verse is not talking about salvation. It is talking about why Christ is delaying His return. He is waiting for all the elect to come into the fold. They are the audience who Peter is addressing in verse nine. Go back and start reading in verse one and you will see what I am talking about. Also a few verses before verse nine God says that the current Earth is being reserved for destruction, as are mockers and scoffers, namely these are from among the Godless group. God is reserving a day of destruction for them. Verse nine is NOT talking about every person who has ever lived or will live. It is referring to God's chosen people, the sheep, the elect, the church. These are different names that the Bible uses to describe them.
Ali Houssney
Curiously, often comments relating of the end of days as found in 2 Peter are completely incorrect in that many believe that a judgement day is imminent in this modern age-a concept that mystifies the mind when it is perfectly clear that 2 Peter is saying that such a day will come within the lifetime of the friends, whom Peter the Apostle. wrote to.
Wonderfully expounded. Hoping there's more. 😁
Brilliant. "Us" the elect is whom Peter is referring. RC Sproul 👍
Had to watch this one more than once.
When he mentions the “any” its abundantly clear he’s regarding those who have recieved Christ in the very first 2 verses of 2 Peter chapter 1
"He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world" 1 John 2:2
Yes the whole world of - Jews - gentles - Gods people are all over the world!
@@Mike12349 Not only "God's people", the whole world, that's what the verse says.
@@tommysuriel yes that’s what it say the whole world? Jew gentle male female? Jesus is the only saviour!
@@Mike12349 Yep, Amen
If he is the sacrifice of the sin of all the world why isn't anyone saved ?
When we correctly and exegetically interpret 2 Peter 3:9 we see that it is perfectly in line with election and limited atonement. Only when you take it out of context do you create controversy. Context is KEY!!!!
Scriptures at times speak theologically & other times speak anthropologically❤️God bless y’all
1 John 2:2, KJV: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Wow! This was fantastic!
Only if unbiblical teachings is what you were looking for. LA shows Calvinists are unaware of what the atonement even does
Fantastically heretical!!! Heresy, heresy, heresy...run away from this doctrine.
@@Qui_Gon_Jinn_76 Repent of your arminian heresy!
@@thomascommers1242 I'm not Armenian. I'm a born again, God fearing, Jesus loving, Bible believing child of Almighty God. Period. I was raised to believe that Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, was born of a virgin, lived a sinless life, died on the cross in my place for my sin, rose three days later and is coming again to set up His eternal Kingdom and I and every believer in Christ Jesus will rule with Him eternally. I confessed my sin and rebellion to Almighty God, repented of my sin and gave my life to Jesus Christ and look forward every day to His imminent return. It makes no difference if I believe I had a choice or not in my Salvation, it only matters that I am saved by the blood of Jesus Christ. Calvinism is an unnecessary doctrine and confuses and divides people. Look at what we're doing right now, me and you. A child of God is a child of God, period. No need to add anything else to the mix when preaching the gospel. Obviously Almighty God didn't feel it was important or it wouldn't have taken 1700 years for someone ( John Calvin ) to make it an issue. He had a theory about the Sovereignty of Almighty God, and that's all it is, is his belief and opinion. Almighty God is Sovereign of course, and I believe that ONLY a Sovereign God could allow us to choose or not choose Him. But even still, what difference does it make? Calvinism causes people to doubt or even some to say why bother. It's just unnecessary and it causes problems and anxiety. I watched R.C. Sprouls preach a sermon where he said he himself may have deceived himself his whole life and may end up in Hell because he was not actually one of the Elect. Can you imagine serving a God your whole life, loving Him, trusting Him and telling others to do the same but at the same time crossing your fingers your whole life? That's awful and it contradicts the Bible.
@@coryalbright9798 True Calvinism seems to dismiss the cross altogether, it's most weird
Whoa...Well done sir
JNC Apologetics Group
Ez 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
Rom 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Jhn 1:7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
Romans 9-11 has a very happy ending:
"God has consigned all to disobedience, that He may have mercy on all. … From Him, and through Him and to Him are all things." (Romans 11:32,36a)
Limited atonement (both in effect and scope) taught by limited theologians will ALWAYS lead to limited assurance, a limited faith, a limited courage, a limited love (both for God and others), and ultimately a limited God worthy of limited worship.
Only a universal, unlimited, all encompassing, unconquering, all victorious atonement for all (both in scope and effect) will lead to full assurance, full hope, full trust, in an unlimited, all surpassing God worthy of ALL worship. 😊
Aaron Pilkey: I so relate to everything you say and how you say it. Please keep up your comments so that truth can be out there for those who are seeking truth. God has given you a gift to teach truth. Thank you, for Jesus sake!
Amen. The man centered doctrine of calvinism needs exposed
I know this is a sticky subject for many, but I appreciated the way the late Dr. Sproul broke down 2 Peter 3:8-9 to speak about the "willing" and the "any." I myself have seen where Christians sincerely (because they want the lost to be saved and want to encourage evangelism) quote the last part of 2 Peter 3:9 without the context. As Dr. Sproul rightly pointed out, "any," as well as "all," are indefinite pronouns that must hearken to either another pronoun or a noun. That is grammatical. Many times in scripture the verse itself gives us the indication of who the "any" and "all" are and 2 Peter 3:9 is one of those verses.
We see another example of "all" in Romans 3:23 and we know this to mean all of mankind. Yet how do we come to that conclusion. We can hearken back to Romans 3:9, which says, "What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin." We see the "all," the indefinite pronoun, hearkens back to both Jews and Gentiles in the same verse, and these two descriptions means every single person because if you're not a Jew, you are a Gentile. Once you read from Romans 3:9 to 3:23, the grammar and context shows the same "all" in 3:23 is the "all" in 3:9. When you follow the nouns or pronouns in 2 Peter 3:1-9, you know that the "all" or "any" pertains to the "us-ward" in verse 9, which is the "beloved" in verse 8, which is the same "beloved" in verse 1, which are believers.
"All" isn't a pronoun, it is an adjective (in Greek).
"Any" is a indefinite pronoun which refers back to "us" in the previous statement which is referring to "us" humans, since we know that it is not the saved people who need to repent but the lost world. We can, therefore, conclude both upon God's nature and this text that God is not willing that any (of humanity) should perish but that all come to repentance.
Why would the us be believers? Why is He waiting for people who have already repented to repent. That doesn't make sense.
This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: that ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour: knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days *scoffers,* walking after their own lusts, and *saying, Where is the promise of his coming?* for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this *they willingly are ignorant of,* that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: *whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.* But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should *perish,* but that *all* should come to *repentance.* But the *day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.* Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
2 Peter 3:1-13
The context is that there are scoffers and there is destruction. In the days of Noah there were scoffers and then the world was destroyed by fire and the believers were saved. The point Peter is making is that likewise there are currently scoffers and there will be another worldwide destruction (by fire this time) and the believers will be saved. Peter's audience might say, well the scoffers are laughing at his coming, saying everything is continuing just as it always has. Peter answers this objection by telling us why God hasn't returned yet. He is not willing that any should perish. Now the "beloved" are already safe, the only ones in the text not safe are the scoffers. It is the scoffers, aka humanity, that is being referred to as "us." Peter is using "us" as an all inclusive statement referring to all humanity. It wouldn't make any sense to be referencing already saved people. God doesn't have to be long-suffering toward already repentant people, but He does have to be long-suffering toward humanity. Who does the text say the pershing is for? It is for the ungodly men. The people that God doesn't want to perish is the same, and only, group of people in the text it says are going to perish. Listen to what Peter says again:
For this *they* willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, *perished:* but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of *judgment* and *perdition* of *ungodly men.*
2 Peter 3:5-7
Obviously verse 9 is aimed at that group of people because they are the ones who are in danger of pershing. Why would you tell this to believers who are not in danger of this judgement?
@@n.holt7 If you notice, the English translation of the Greek words "any" and "all" are treated as indefinite pronouns because any and all are indefinite pronouns in the English. And you are correct that "any" is an indefinite pronoun hearkening back to "us-ward." And you are also correct that the Greek word for "any" is an adjective. However, there are rules even to Greek language that necessitates that the "any" and "all" in 2 Peter 3:9 would still be considered indefinite pronouns hearkening back to "us-ward."
The Greek word for "any" is "tis," which is an indefinite pronoun in the Greek. So for the "all" in the same sentence not referring back to either the "any" or the "us-ward" would make no sense. And the word "pas" actually becomes a pronoun when it is used without a noun in a sentence. So "pas" in this sentence is actually a pronoun. This pronoun lines up with pronoun "any," which hearkens back to "us-ward."
"Us-ward" doesn't refer to all humanity in this context. "Us-ward" is a pronoun that must hearken back to the last noun in the sentence. For example, in 2 Peter 3:1, the verse begins with the word "beloved," and the "you" and "your" are pronouns referring back to "beloved." In verse 2 the pronoun "ye" still hearkens back to "beloved," but the pronoun "us" is defined by what follows, "..the apostles of the Lord and Savior" because there is a prepositional word before "us," which is "of." Just in these two verses we can follow the nouns and pronouns and know who we're talking about by following the grammar.
When you follow the pronouns all the way to verse 8, Peter begins with "But," a conjunction showing a contrast. What is the contrast? The scoffers mentioned in verses 3-8, who are shown to be willingly ignorant in verse 5. Yet we get the contrast in verse 8, "But, beloved (that refers to believers), be not ignorant of this one thing..." Notice the contrast of the scoffers who are ignorant and the beloved who shouldn't be. So now we know verse 8 is speaking directly to and about the beloved. So when you get to verse 9, notice God "is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward..." Who is that pronoun "us-ward" logically referring back to? The beloved. If "us-ward" was replaced with "unbelievers" or "the lost" or even the "ungodly," then the "any" and "all" would perhaps refer back to all humanity, but you can't grammatically and logically make "us" or "us-ward" mean something different than a pronoun referring back to the original noun in verse 8.
Also, notice that the end of verse 9 tells you God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. If the any and all refers to all humanity, then God's revealed will is not being done because some will perish and not all will come to repentance. If you take this on face value, then God can't get His revealed will and has no power for it to come to pass since some perish and not all come to repentance. This doesn't line up with the God who says He purposes something, He declares something, and He brings it to pass (Isaiah 46:9-11 for example). In addition, how can God say He isn't willing (remember, this is an act of God's will) that any should perish, but tells us in verse 7 about the judgment waiting for ungodly men. If God isn't willing for them to perish, is He not powerful enough to prevent that since He is omnipotent? And if "us-ward" is the ungodly, then why isn't He willing to do in verse 9 what He just promised to do in verse 7?
The "us-ward," which represents the "beloved," refers to all that would believe; the elect. The elect always includes even those not yet saved. The Bible speaks of believers from the perspective of their position in Christ before they are actually saved. That is the reason Ephesians 1:4 says God chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world. For God, it is a done deal before Genesis 1:1 though the actual day of our salvation hasn't occurred yet. That is the reason Jesus could say He has other sheep that He would bring and they would hear His voice in John 10:17. They are already His sheep before He saves them because His sheep hears His voice and they follow Him and He gives them eternal life; no one can pluck them out of His hand (John 10:27-29). That is God's promise; that He will save all those He has chosen. He is so patient through time to save those He have elected. So I respectfully disagree.
My opinion, Peter wrote this with consideration that the "us" are the "believers", the church, the people that he wrote his letter to, not to apply to the whole humankind..... but with fact in mind that within "us", the "believers", the people, the church that he wrote his letter to, there are also unsaved people, like what Jesus explains in the parable of the weeds, where there are weeds among good seeds... we or Peter cannot see or identify the weeds, only God can. that's why Peter wrote "Instead he is patient with you ("believers", with the weeds among good seeds), not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance" (2 Peter 3:9), because God had known already that among "you", there are also weeds predestined to be burned and perished.... compare with Eze 18:23 "Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord GOD, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live?" Some of the wicked will die anyway without repentance...
@@n.holt7 I enjoyed that, thanks for taking the time to look at the fuller context.
If your conclusion is limited atonement then you are using worldly wisdom. You know what is the deciding factor? If you understood the teaching of Romans at all, there is no way you can come to a conclusion that Christ died only for the elect. Romans 5:18 is clearly tell us , the gift is for all mankind when you read the verse consistently, only when you changed the meaning of the words according to your liking and according to your “theology”, then you know you have to changed many verses to reach your conclusion. You are placing yourself “higher” than God’s Word which God had magnified above all His name (Psalm 138:2). You are the one who decide what the words mean, not God. If you are interested in what God say, you will not decide the meaning of words but allow God to tell you clearly by His Word. Do you think God has clearly told us His truth? I testify to anyone reading this comment God is very, very clear in His Word when you honor Him above all men! (Here you know what I meant by all men!) He will reveal it by His Spirit to you (1 Corinthians 2:9-11), those who will use their own wisdom to interpret the Bible, beware He taketh the wise in their own craftiness! (1 Corinthians 3:19). Humble yourself to His Word and you will be blessed!
Most BEAUTIFUL MIND OF GOD.
Thank you for your clear explanation.
"He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."..."Do not fear, for behold, I bring you good news of great joy that will be to ALL the people."..."We have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of ALL people, and especially of those who believe."..."Ransomed for ALL." Doesn't sound very limited to me.
Amen
You will be in your communist universal salvation with murderers rapists and the rest of the evil unrepentant self entitled self righteous fakes.
A philosophical problem with a theology is an indication of incorrect interpretation. The verses above seem to have this problem since not all are saved. Christ would have atoned for all sins of all men including the sin of unbelief which should result in universal salvation. The interpretation of "possible" salvation for all also seems to divide the trinity. The father knows the few who will come to faith. The son dies for all. Yet the Holy Spirit fails to regenerate all who the word is preached/who the son died for.
Regardless of theology, salvation is limited. There is either universal atonement with limited salvation which is determined by the sinner. Or limited atonement with limited salvation which is determined by God.
So it could be that what scripture is indicating is that we must interpret all/world properly, or that Jesus’s atonement, being infinite in its greatness, it is indeed sufficient for all but only applied to the elect by the Father/Holy Spirit.
The sovereignty of God and responsibility of man in salvation is not resolved in scripture. Both are presented as true. It's not an easy thing to resolve hence the centuries long debate that still goes on today.
@@detached As I see it, the mistake in the line of reasoning that leads to the Reformed doctrine of election is the assumption that God’s grace must be irresistible. It’s one thing to say that humans won’t believe in Christ without the Holy Spirit and quite another thing to claim that with the Holy Spirit humans must believe. The Holy Spirit will bring us to the point where we can believe, but never to a point where we must believe. So, if we do believe, it is all credited to God’s grace, working through the Spirit. If we refuse, however, it’s our own fault. Does this view in any way compromise the claim that salvation is 100% by grace? Does it leave room for anyone to take any credit for their salvation? I don’t see how it does. Through the Bible we have warnings to not resist the Holy Spirit (e.g. Acts 7:51; Eph 4:30; Heb 3:7-8)
@@Joshua-kt1bs It's not easy to understand. And, maybe we can't fully understand. But, I think that the reformed tradition wants to say that salvation is 100% the work of God, rather than the joint work of man & God. What I mean is, the Arminian view is that the individual must take action (believe & repent) in order to be saved, whereas the Calvinist view is that the individual is so deceived & sin infected that he cannot even take that action. It's the Holy Spirit who acts within him that leads to his belief & repentance. You're leaving some room for the individual to act & I tend to agree that we have some measure of free will, although it is greatly compromised, enslaved & deceived. Because I think this is true, it's difficult to say to the unbeliever that it's on you. In order to make a truly free decision, one has to have full understanding and we're all so compromised by sin & deception that we don't understand. And we don't have all the information. And, even if we did, we would have to say that anyone who rejects true life, love, & the joy that comes with it, would be mentally ill and we wouldn't allow someone in that state to make such weighty decisions. It's for this reason that we need a savior. Someone has to do it all on our behalf. It's Christ who has done it. I think that his victory over sin & death will not fall short in any way. And my hope is that the whole of creation will be redeemed and restored in & through him. I can't explain how it will happen but I hope that ultimately, all will be made right & all will be made well.
Rc hits it out of the ballpark again
No it's a foul
Therefore it is there for anyone to receive everyone has faith what matters is where do we put that faith !
And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.
(2Th 3:2 KJV)
.....ALL MEN GAVE NOT FAITH
Exactly.
@@boavintura yes all men have not faith in Christ Jesus lol God did not make them not out their trust and belief in Christ Jesus as lord and savior.. God is not the one blinding their eyes from the truth.
Repent from horrid cursed doctrine pray without ceasing and preach Christ crucified .
Do you really know Jesus and the heart and will of God for all men ?
God doesn’t not find any pleasure in the deaths of the wicked / unrepentant
Do not condemn people in your hearts.
John 3:17
“For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”
So good
I disagree with this point of reformed theology, but man RC Sproul had such an incredible way of explaining things, truly a man of God. Pleased to know he is with the Lord today!
You don't know anything obviously lol
@@uncasunga1800 ?
Christ never came with the intention of saving all men without exception. He came to save His peculiar people for His name
Behold the Lamb of God who taketh away the sins of the WORLD 🌎
@@tonydardi332 World has many meanings, could be referring to the world system, could be referring to not just the Jews but the world which includes Gentiles. Scripture is harmonious. Unless you want to throw away the doctrine of hell and all the scriptures that go with it then you have to interpret that differently.
@@intothekey Well it’s obviously not talking about the world system. That makes no sense. Behold the Lamb of God who taketh away the sins of the world system? World does have a few different meanings in scripture like Satan is the god of this “world” but in this case world 🌎 means the whole world 🌎 and everyone in it. It’s obvious.. Besides that the Bible says that God commands all men everywhere to repent. That’s every man in the world.
@@tonydardi332 It's take away the "sin", not "sins", of the world. And Jesus does take away the sin of the world. It is the restitution of all things. A new heaven and a new earth. But those who do not belong to Christ will have no part in it. They are cast into the Lake of Fire, the Second Death. The end result is a world without sin. Revelation 21
Stop spreading false doctrine. You have to read the Bible in context, letting scripture interpret scripture.
@@samuelrosenbalm Ok SIN not sins. Exactly what false doctrine am I spreading? Saying Jesus died for every man is false? I don’t understand
1 Timothy 2:3-6
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
All the ones in his church
@@aletheia8054 don’t see that in my holy Bible.
Humble yourself pick up your cross and preach the gospel to every creature
God will none should perish :)
@@aletheia8054 and that’s not in the context. Just saying. You are being mislead.
@@christianhalkides5707 God doesn’t want anyone in his church to perish. God sends a bunch of people to hell.
Yes, that’s in the Bible
@@christianhalkides5707 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to *US* not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
It literally says *US* right in the sentence. That means his church. The letter was written to a church.
And it says come to repentance. You got a pay attention when you read.
There's no confusion at all. Jesus died for the whole world, that Whosoever believes in Jesus should be saved. John 3:16
World= kosmos in greek
You are confused about knowing anything since you dont haha
The world is - the elect
I love R.C. Sproul so I ask these two questions with the utmost respect: 1. Did he cite any scripture that establishes the doctrine of limited atonement? Or did he only try to explain away a passage (2 Peter 3) that may contradict the doctrine?
2. Did he give any reason or benefit for the doctrine of limited atonement?
Anyone who puts faith in Christ is elect not because they were chosen but because Christ is elect and when you're in Christ you become elect
Paul Gross
If you are in Christ. Ah that is the rub. And how does that happen? The Holy Spirit works to regenerate, to grant evangelical repentance and to confer faith. These are the works of God in the elect. You don’t understand that a man dead in sin cannot repent and seek God. God had to raise him up like he did to the physically dead Lazarus. All men are spiritually dead to God and must be called out of their spiritual tombs or they will remain there.
🤔
@@kenzeier2943 Yes! AMEN you got it right
Exactly.
@@kenzeier2943 And where is the verse that says that regeneration is a prerequisite to faith? Ah! That is right, there isn't one.
If men cannot seek God what about all the biblical commands to seek God? What about all the historical narratives where we are told people, like Cornelius (Acts 10), seek God?
In Acts, God grants everyone repentance.
Men aren't physically dead so they don't need to be physically raised like Lazarus. The Lazarus narrative is not an analogy for salvation, the text makes it clear that Lazarus was already a friend of Jesus/believer. He represents an already saved person being resurrected in the last days. Have u not read the Scriptures when Jesus' says I am the resurrection and the life?
Where does the Bible say that men must be called out of spiritual tombs? In Ephesians 2 there is no call to dead men but the dead men are saved by grace through faith.
Great, thanks!
I think and I believe that the Best way to Exeget this Particular txt is to study the Literary context.
Amen. I fully convince about limited Atonement.
i'm studied this extensively but it is not according to Scripture and sure not from the reformation. 1 John 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. I made a website www.maartenluther.com/
Aarong Uchoi since you are convinced about limited atonement. Please quote me a verse that stated Christ only die for the elect. Please respond to prove that what you have been convinced about is really true. I bet you can't find that verse, please go ahead !!!
@@93556108 See my post one month ago
Marius VanWoerden
1 month ago
1 John 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. Limited atonement is not Scriptural. It is a claim that our Lord Jesus has failed and His scarifies insufficient for the Sins of the world. Those that claim Scripture for Limited atonement would prove the Bible to be in contradiction.
@@MariusVanWoerden I am fully agreeable to you and I too believed in unlimited atonement. Do you know John Calvin himself dosen't believed in the limited atonement neither did the 4-pointers of Calvinism? It certainly contradicted what Jesus stated what He will do after the cross; ". (Joh 12:32) And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me". Did He meant He came only to save the elect? Far from it, Jesus came to save the lost sinners in the world (Rom3:9-10).
Calvinists stated, if Jesus died for everyone then all should be saved. Their argument undermines the role of faith by denying the need for any condition in salvation. Salvation was not purchased to be given to anyone absolutely, whether they believed or not, but only upon the exercise of faith. God has designed that salvation comes with a condition that must be fulfilled on the part of the one who receives salvation. It is no injustice if salvation is not given to anyone who fails to fulfill God’s condition, even though payment for their sins has been made. If payment for sins has been made and one may obtain forgiveness on condition of faith in Christ and one does not fulfill the condition, there is no injustice with God if He extracts payment in the form of eternal suffering on the part of the sinner. Thus we need to consider the scope of the sacrifice of Christ is extended to all men, however the "effect" of the sacrifice is only efficacious or effectual to those who receive the merit of that One sacrifice by faith.
@@93556108 Calvin never and non of the reformers believed that Christ died only for the sins of the Elect. However only those that are elect to be saved will hear the Gospel and be convicted by the Holy Spirit these two belong together.
17:00, might want to include the word "ALL" because it cannot be twisted like he does with the word "any". Huge fa; of rc for years, but the more I study, the more it is clear God wants to save ALL
Those words are the same in Greek.
God did not fail fake liar
Thankyou Adrian Rodgers for exposing this error...!
Brother Adrian Rogers is a blessing
I Tim 4:10 It is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.
So why would he say Especially Believers
Obviously there are two groups the doomed and the believers. Jesus did not fail he is the everlasting evidence God provided a sacrifice for those doomed to destruction and they refused it, and effectually to believers.
He will gather His Elect from the 4 winds
@@uncasunga1800 as long as you say Jesus died for all, I don't have a problem. It seems like you agree.
@@popoffs5273I believe He is saying His death for the others is to make them accountable and God just in His judgment and His death for the Remnant or elect makes them acceptable to God outside and against their own merit.
Paul said directly
For the sake of the elect I suffer all things
Pretty straightforward
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that HE gave His only begotten Son, Jesus, that WHOSOEVER, BELIEVETH in Him, should not perish, but HAVE EVER LASTING LIFE. John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that BELIEVETH on me HATH EVERLASTING LIFE.
First John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God, that ye may KNOW YE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE.
First John 2:2 And He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but for the sins of the whole world. But, only those who believe are saved and can never be condemned again. John 3:18.
Faith cometh by hearing, hearing by the word of God. First Timothy 2:4 Who would have all men to be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth. The gospel. First Corinthians 15:1-4.
and “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. John 14:23 it's not just believing, just as Abraham didn't just believe God, he trusted him and took action according to the promise. It's not an academic approval but an active trust. Satan believes in Jesus more than most people.. it goes to show that saying "I believe" isn't the whole story.
Satan and demons can not be saved. Only people. Romans 4:2 If Abraham were justified by works, he would have something to glory in, but not before God. Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
We have to be as righteous as God to go to heaven, and no one is. Romans 4:5-8 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on Him who justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Faith alone apart from works. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord imputeth righteousness apart from works. Blessed is the man whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
The second we trust Jesus and receive His free gift of eternal life, all our sin debt is paid in full, past, present, and future sins, and we can no longer be condemned. John 3:18.
Romans six:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the GIFT of God is eternal life, through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Ephesians 1:13-14 Our guarantee of eternal life by faith alone in His gospel. First Corinthians 15:1-4. Romans 11:six.
The gift of God is eternal life. Not a reward for good behavior. Ephesians 2:8-9. Faith alone. John six:40 and John six:29. First John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that BELIEVE on the name of the Son of God, that ye MAY KNOW YE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE. John 1:12 and Romans 1:sixteen.
Your English reading of John 3:16 is bogus. The verse says nothing about who is capable of having saving faith in God. A better translation is "For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten Son, that all those believing in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Every single other verse you cited is based on a misunderstanding of the original meaning or is taken out of context. Do you actually think Calvinists haven't followed these passages in their theology?
KJV. For God so loved the world, everybody, that He gave His only begotten Son, Jesus, that WHOSOEVER, believeth in Him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. John six:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on me, HATH EVERLASTING LIFE. Present tense;
First Corinthians 1:21 For after that, in the wisdom of God, the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them THAT BELIEVE.
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace ye are saved, through FAITH, when we believe, and that not of yourselves, we did nothing for it, it is the GIFT of God, not of works, lest any man should boast. You can not boast in free.
Ephesians 1:13-14 In whom ye also trusted, after ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, First Corinthians 15:3-4 in whom also after ye believed, ye were sealed by that Holy Spirit of promise. Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the Holy Spirit in whom ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
What if after we have believed, we never believe it again? Second Timothy 2:13 If we believe not, He abideth faithful, He can not deny himself. Once we believe on Jesus alone apart from any works, we are given eternal life as a free gift. Romans six:23 For the wages of sin is death, and we all sin, First John 1:8, and we all die, but the GIFT of God is ETERNAL LIFE. It is a gift because no sinner can do one thing to save himself.
First John 5-13 These things have I written unto you that BELIEVE on the name of the Son of God, that ye may KNOW YE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE. John 3:18 Believers are no longer condemned to hell, but unbelievers are condemned already because they have not believed. Romans 4:5-8
@@jimkraft9445 Congrats, you added even more scriptures that don’t go against Calvinism in any way shape or form. Anybody who stills thinks John 3:16 proves Calvinism wrong hasn’t gotten off the first rung of this debate.
Good job!
This is what happens when one has too much time and scriptures, countless Christian books and articles in which to draw and or make comment on. Can you imagine the beauty of of the early Church having maybe one copy of one of the Gospels, and maybe a letter or two. To recite, read, reread, preach, teach and discuss. The Bible as we have it today is both a curse and a blessing. A blessing because it is the Revelation of God. It is just amazing. But also a curse because we re all over the place. What is the primary purpose of a Christian? To be like Jesus. Today's Church in America is engaged in every thing but Christlikeness. Ohh there's a lot of name dropping, but to Take Up the Cross? No one dares, certainly not with any regularity. Redundance is Key to Transformation. This has been my experience; Church and endless Bible studies on every subject but Christlikeness. A wise man once told me; "You can fill to capacity a Christian conference room when the subject is God, and or 'Self.' But, a conference to focus on Christ Alone, watch the exits.
You are not smart enough to comprehend just admit it and you have never spent any time on the Bible haha typical self righteous fake
Why not read the Imitation of Christ by Thomas Kempis? I think you would like Seneca (if you don't mind bits of pagantry), the Tony Evans bible commentary, and the NIV Life Application Study Bible. Hope this helps
To use the biblical language is “Unlimited atonement, particular redemption”. To use the word “atonement” is to caused confusion and misunderstanding.
If I believe the group in second Peter refers to all humanity then is that a rejection of limited atonement?
You could be a 4 point Calvinist and believe Christ's death was sufficient to save the world but will only save the Elect.
@@BirchKST that's 5 point. 4 point believes Christ died for all. That's different
@@BirchKST The death of Christ isn't sufficient to save ANYONE.
@@thomascommers1242 yes
All actual calvinist believe it is offered for all and they are condemned for rejecting Him
Which all would do
If atonement was for those that perish than that would mean atonment is insucicant. Christ died for their sin yet they perish anyway? Then what did Christ die for?! John 10:15 Just as the Father knows me and I the Father, I lay down my life for the sheep.. The sheep are those elected for salvation before the earth was created.
innerfire89 Jesus died to propitiate God the father’s wrath for the sins of the whole world first John two verse two
innerfire89 If the atonement is sufficient for all what did it do? It’s sufficient but it doesn’t do anything? It has to do something in order for it to be sufficient. It perpetuates God the father’s wrath to judge the world and he does not judge the world. Jesus judges the world John 522
They reject the gospel and prefere darkness duh. Jesus said men WILL not come into the light last thier sins be reproved. He said THEY by choice preferred darkness..... what does that tell you.
innerfire89, those that perish are unbelievers as the bible promised eternal security only to believers in Christ. The scope of Christ's atonement is unlimited but it's application is only to them that believed (1Tim4:10).
Please quote to me the verse as you claimed "the sheep are those elected for savation before the earth was created. Thanks.
Christ died to make people savable and many did.
This was so helpful. Unfortunately *some of* our non Calvinist brethren want to ignore the distinctions being made in favor of straw-men arguments namely accusing the Calvinist of limiting the "value" or "sufficiency" of the atonement rather than the "application" of the atonement.
If we are talking about value per 1 John 2:2 then certainly that atonement is sufficient and universal in its reach to all. But if we are talking about application then said atonement is limited to *those who believe.* And those who believe are those who are elect. And not a bit if Christ's blood is wasted.
But to be fair, as Sproul points out, the term "limited" is misleading. I think *definite atonement* is far more helpful and perhaps would help in the debate.
They are not brothers but unbelievers. They have a puppet God and go by satans lies in the garden to eve. This is not Disney world and YHVH is not mickey mouse you need to wake up to reality
@@Repentee I agree there is no debate
But hope for young believers to be faced with the realization either they chose what their evil inclinations choose..
Or they were chosen
Imagine these evil self righteous hypocrites who claim they are NOT chosen by God ha holy cow they are revealing a terrible thing about themselves
God deosnt need evil humans to claim him tolerant of their evil and thereby justin their eyes 😨
Does Sproul's interpretation create a class of RPC's who are not just disposable but disposed of with eternal torture?
With respect to the late RC SProul - there were many things he said directly
relating to the Gospel of Jesus Christ that I agree with. Death Burial and
The Resurrection of Christ - that is the Gospel.
The emphasis in this video is too much on the election.
My opinion on predestination is that only God knows predestination, while man
tends to make up more definitions.
Because I do not have a deep grasp of scripture, having not been to a Bible university, I find Calvinism extremely hard to grasp. In fact it robs me of my faith.
Predestination means he has pre determined the destination of the believer. Notice the word believer.
I agree with God only knowing predestination...if we knew it, we would skip to the good parts...sometimes it takes the valleys to reach the peaks...it would almost be like knowing when Messiah is coming back, only the Father knows that as well...as it should be...
The reformers didn't believe limited atonement, it wasn't until few hundred years later that this doctrine became popular.
An easy way for me to think about it is that God doesn't "desire" that anyone would perish. Clearly I believe that it is Gods desire that no one (any) would perish...but many will. Not because God willed it by decree that the "us" or "any" should perish. But in fact by decree we should not perish; those that do believe! Somehow in light of Gods sovereignty and plan, we get to participate in our salvation, not by merit on our part or any indebtedness that God has to our account but because it pleases Him to allow us to participate.
God doesn't wish any of his children to perish. And they don't.
I can see how definite atonement is consistent with scripture, but I’m getting stuck on Dr. Sproul’s own comment - if God “designed the work of redemption specifically with a view to providing salvation for the elect,” then in what sense is Christ’s death “valuable enough to meet the needs of everybody”? What do the non-elect get out of it?
What the non-elect get out of it? Rejection of Christ and the Wrath of God.
He is right when he judges. Why are you worried about Gods affairs you are not fit to judge God. 🙄
He would be just to reject everyone.
Limited atonement is like God performing a sniper shot knowing exactly what He is doing and not shooting in any direction hoping to hit something.
Wow zoomer kids who think they are the top of the food chain with a zero IQ and critical thinking or logic skills
It never ends with you 😅😅😅
So…. Am I to understand that my brother and sister who both died at birth (due to complications) have a chance of being in hell because that’s just how God predestined it at the beginning of the world? How in anyway shape or form is that a just God???
On that same note, how are you to know that either one went to heaven if they were not given the opportunity to accept Christ? Neither had the opportunity to know Christ, so according to the Arminian way of thinking does this not mean that they did not go to heaven? I’d rather rely on the biblical teaching that God has predestined some and not others… at least then there is a chance that one or the other or BOTH made it to heaven because they were predestined.
Only God knows those who are His
That would make aborted babies and those who die at birth could spend eternity in hell. How awful they make God
Don't be anxious, Jesus said that the Kingdom belongs to the little ones. Your brother and sister are certainly in heaven.
WHEN I PREACH THIS TO OTHER CHRISTAINS IT TAKES THEM SOME TIME TO HEAR IT ..I was a supper wicked man me and my twin bro never heard the gospel until he DID THIS LOLLL ..IF NOT NOOO WAY NEVER COULD I BE SAVED.
Well done RC Sproul
Limited atonement contradicts scripture.
@@coryalbright9798 I doubt it
@@Wgaither1 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. 1 John 2.2
There's no repeatable hermeneutical method you can use to make this mean anything other then what it says.
LA proves the calvinist does not know what atonement does in relation to salvation.
@@Wgaither1 notice not just world, but WHOLE world. This can only mean EVERYONE. You must have an authority outside of scripture to interpret this in any other way. In calvinism Jesus is the propitiation for a small minority so why would God inspire John to write WHOLE WORLD? How else coukd God have said it if He meant the whole world? Your denying scripture in favor of man's traditions. Calvinism is just a bunch of cleverly worded philosophical arguments for why scripture isn't true.
I think reform teology is not easy to understand even in my language (Indonesia) more over in English.
Reformed theology is easily understood, but our reformed doctrine humbles us and calls us to stop where we cannot extend into the realm of eternity and simply trust God and be amazed by His sovereignty. He’s too big for us to comprehend, His truths lead the human mind to paradoxes we cannot untie, and so we’re forced to harden our hearts or set ourselves low and worship Him for His unfathomable glory.
The word βούλομαι is middle voice of a primary verb; to "will," i.e. (reflexively) be willing:-be disposed, minded, intend. So it is not his intention - not his mind for anyone NOT to know Christ!!
Most dont so by your definition he failed miserably not a very smart 'god'
@@iacoponefurio1915 My Point exactly. God's Will is for 100% - and he is capable of that - it not his capability that is in Question - it is OUR will that is under the Micro Scope.
What you Fail to realize is that it is Man's Free Will that puts him in Hell. God is perfectly smart, but he has given EVERY SINGLE PERSON who died and went to hell the Choice to go to heaven. They rejected him - and the ability of man to reject is what the issue is.
God Loves YOU...the King is Coming...soon I hope...
He hates those who hate him and repays them to their face. You know nothing about it
Gonna apply the same logic to all have sinned? Does that also only mean the elect?
Would that make sense in that verses context? No. Unlike this one where believers are being talked to.
Jesus says as the serpent was lifted up so that man could survive the snake bites.So must the son of man also be lifted up and i will Draw All men unto myself.of course drawing does not mean all will Respond to Gods calling.Free Will.God also commands ALL men Everywhere to Repent.SO man can Repent!! Otherwise why would God command men to do just that!!
The Holy Spirit confers regeneration, faith, and repentance to the elect only. There is a universal calling but not a universal election. Put it this way, in the subjunctive mood, “if you were to repent you would be saved.” But only those that the Holy Spirit works in repent. This puts salvation in the hands of God not in man’s hands, and that is what makes men mad because they want to be in control.
Ken Zeier you’re truly deceived and your beliefs are found nowhere in scripture.
You must twist all your proof texts out of context in order to arrive at your conclusions
@@apilkey as it is written:
“None is righteous, no, not one;
no one understands;
no one seeks for God. -Romans 3:10-11
How did you get to the point that you understood, and started seeking God?
1920s That’s great you can quote scripture but do you understand what it means?
Do you have understanding or do you merely parrot reformed “proof-texts” not having a clue what the author means?
Do you care about what the author is trying to communicate in a passage or do you just cherry pick that verse because you think it supports total depravity.
Was Paul contradicting himself in the very next chapter when he speaks of Abraham being righteous?
Have you read Romans 4?
Have you read the myriad of of other verses in scripture that speak of righteous men and just men and men seeking God?
What do you do with these passages?
Do you rip them out of your bible and disregard them?
How about you ask that question to Abraham?
Ask Abraham when he was made righteous.
...According to Romans 4:3,4 was Abraham made righteous so as to believe, or did he have to believe FIRST?
ROMANS 4:3,4
3 For what saith the scripture? ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS COUNTED UNTO HIM FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
...According to Hebrews 11:6 he that cometh to God must first BELIEVE:
HEBREWS 11:6
6 But WITHOUT FAITH IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO PLEASE HIM: for HE THAT COMETH TO GOD MUST BELIEVE THAT HE IS, and that he is a rewarder of them that DILIGENTLY SEEK HIM.
**ORDER SALUTIS - You Must BELIEVE in order to come to God.
We ARE able to SEEK Him according to Hebrews 11:6.
Do a bible study on men seeking God in the scriptures and it easily disproves your views on Romans 3:10,11.
Paul is speaking about no one seeking God but FAITH and no one is righteous according to the LAW.
ROMANS 2&3 are designed by the apostle Paul to create a problem thereby showing what is IMPOSSIBLE.
ROMANS 2 shows we’re going to be judged according to our DEEDS and by the way in chapter 3 it’s showing you’re going to FAIL.
It’s showing us that our righteousness is NO GOOD.
Doers of the law shall be justified YET NOONE CAN DO THE LAW SO PERFECTLY SO AS TO BE JUSTIFIED!
ROMANS 2:13
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the DOERS OF THE LAW SHALL BE JUSTIFIED.
God is using the law to make a judicial statement saying that EVERYONE IS GUILTY of not keeping the law.
He’s building up the problem and then finally gives the SOLUTION in Romans 3:20-22.
ROMANS 3:20
20 THEREFORE by the DEEDS OF THE LAW there shall NO FLESH BE JUSTIFIED IN HIS SIGHT: for by the law IS THE KNOWLEDGE of SIN.
...According to Romans 3:22 this righteousness was NOW TO COME BY FAITH.
Available to ALL who believe.
Their is NO difference:
ROMANS 3:22
22 Even the righteousness of God which is BY FAITH of Jesus Christ UNTO ALL and UPON ALL them THAT BELIEVE: for there is no difference:
1920s Start with the books of Chronicles in your study of men seeking the Lord.
Why don’t you ask these men when they started seeking God:
1 CHRONICLES 22:19
19 NOW SET YOUR HEART AND YOUR SOUL TO SEEK THE LORD YOUR GOD; arise therefore, and build ye the sanctuary of the LORD God, to bring the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and the holy vessels of God, into the house that is to be built to the name of the LORD.
2 CHRONICLES 11:16
16 And after them out of all the tribes of Israel SUCH AS SET THEIR HEARTS TO SEEK THE LORD God of Israel came to Jerusalem, to sacrifice unto the LORD God of their fathers.
2 CHRONICLES 14:7
7 Therefore he said unto Judah, Let us build these cities, and make about them walls, and towers, gates, and bars, while the land is yet before us; because WE HAVE SOUGHT THE LORD OUR GOD, WE HAVE SOUGHT HIM, and he hath given us rest on every side. So they built and prospered.
2 CHRONICLES 15:1-5
1 And the Spirit of God came upon Azariah the son of Oded:
2 And he went out to meet Asa, and said unto him, Hear ye me, Asa, and all Judah and Benjamin; The Lord is with you, while ye be with him; and IF YE SEEK HIM, HE WILL BE FOUND OF YOU; BUT IF YE FORSAKE HIM, HE WILL FORSAKE YOU.
3 Now for a long season Israel hath been without the true God, and without a teaching priest, and without law.
4 BUT WHEN THEY IN THEIR TROUBLE DID TURN UNTO THE LORD GOD OF ISRAEL, AND SOUGHT HIM, HE WAS FOUND OF THEM.
2 CHRONICLES 15:12-15
12 AND THEY ENTERED INTO A COVENANT TO SEEK THE LORD GOD of their fathers with all their heart and with all their soul;
13 That whosoever would not seek the Lord God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.
14 And they sware unto the Lord with a loud voice, and with shouting, and with trumpets, and with cornets.
15 And all Judah rejoiced at the oath: for they had sworn with all their heart, AND SOUGHT HIM WITH THEIR WHOLE DESIRE; AND HE WAS FOUND OF THEM: AND THE LORD GAVE THEM REST ROUND ABOUT.
2 CHRONICLES 17:3
3 AND THE LORD WAS WITH JEHOSHAPHAT, BECAUSE HE WALKED IN THE FIRST WAYS OF HIS FATHER DAVID, and sought not unto Baalim;
2 CHRONICLES 19:3
3 NEVERTHELESS THERE ARE GOOD THINGS FOUND IN THEE, in that thou hast taken away the groves out of the land, AND HAST PREPARED THINE HEART TO SEEK GOD.
2 CHRONICLES 20:3,4
3 And Jehoshaphat feared, and SET HIMSELF TO SEEK THE LORD, and proclaimed a fast throughout all Judah.
4 And Judah gathered themselves together, to ask help of the LORD: EVEN OUT OF ALL THE CITIES OF JUDAH THEY CAME TO SEEK THE LORD.
2 CHRONICLES 26:4,5
4 And HE DID THAT WHICH WAS RIGHT in the sight of the LORD, according to all that his father Amaziah did.
5 And HE SOUGHT GOD in the days of Zechariah, who had understanding in the visions of God: and AS LONG AS HE SOUGHT THE LORD, GOD MADE HIM TO PROSPER.
2 CHRONICLES 27:6
6 So Jotham became mighty, BECAUSE HE PREPARED HIS WAYS BEFORE THE LORD HIS GOD.
2 CHRONICLES 33:12,13
12 And when he was in affliction, HE BESOUGHT THE LORD HIS GOD, AND HUMBLED HIMSELF GREATLY before the God of his fathers,
13 AND PRAYED UNTO HIM: AND HE WAS INTREATED OF HIM, AND HEARD HIS SUPPLICATION, and brought him again to Jerusalem into his kingdom. Then Manasseh knew that the LORD he was God.
2 CHRONICLES 34:1-3
1 Josiah was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned in Jerusalem one and thirty years.
2 And HE DID THAT WHICH WAS RIGHT IN THE SIGHT OF THE LORD, and walked in the ways of David his father, and declined neither to the right hand, nor to the left.
3 For in the eighth year of his reign, WHILE HE WAS YET YOUNG, HE BEGAN TO SEEK AFTER THE GOD OF DAVID HIS FATHER: and in the twelfth year he began to purge Judah and Jerusalem from the high places, and the groves, and the carved images, and the molten images.
To those like me who have had their eyes opened to Reformed Theology but have been attending a non reformed church:
Are you going to leave your current church and look for a Reformed one or stay at your current one and be a light there?
CHRIST DIED OR ALL SIN PERIOD...“For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this not
from yourselves, it is the gift of God- not by works, so that no one can
boast.” (Ephesians 2:8-9 NIV)
johnny lloodte
When Pilate sentenced Jesus to death did he add the Ryder that Jesus was to die to expedite the sins of the world?
Man’s sin problem is two-fold. We have a sin-debt with God and an unrighteous status before God. Jesus paid the sin debt for everyone - that’s atonement. When the individual has faith in Jesus their status is change from unrighteous to righteous - that’s justification. So the reason many are not saved isn’t because the atonement is limited or not applied to them, it’s because they have not been justified. Why does the Scripture call it good news that Christ died for our sins when the problem of justification remains? It’s because the sin-debt problem was the big problem and hard to resolve. It was costly even to God. Justification (the transference of the righteousness of Christ to the sinner) doesn’t cost God anything. He just decrees it to be so, immediately and with joy.
I love RC and can rejoice that he's in heaven now. But, I wish he hadn't been a Calvinist.
costly to GOD cmon now where does it say that God decrees all events.
Kurt....You are conflating. Of course people have an unrighteous standing with God because of their sin debt....it goes hand in hand. In order to then for one to have a right standing with God, their sin debt has to be atoned for which inevitably will bring a right standing with God when He gives them the grace of the free gift of faith.
Now since the working of Christ's atonement wiped away one's sin debt completely, ask, how does one get the eternal judgement when they have no sin debt?
@@darryld.8616 exactly and Paul states that in many of his letters. Faith in any belief always comes by hearing,thats why Jesus said go out and preach the word to ALL,an Paul traveled 10,000 plus miles to spread the Good News.Why would Paul have done that if GOD first chose an elect amount for Salvation before he created man.Makes no sense at all.
Your a typical calvanist that starts with the Premise that it is true an then you force on to the versus what is not there.Problem of justification.there is none.Salvation is freely given to all, as God commands ALL men Everywhere to REPENT,and Pual says GOD appoints the times and the places where again ALL men should live,so that we might seek and find HIM,though he is not far from anyone of us!! Plain and scriptural.think about it.We are justified when we Believe and Trust in Christ,that IS the GOOD NEWS for ALL men .As HE is the propitiation for us but NOT just for us but for ALL.read it .
No...you need to go read Aaron's comments above. You are missing some pieces to the puzzle of the Atonement and what Jesus's death on the cross accomplished. Also, go look into Leviticus 16:1-34. The atonement was more than just one action. Man does have a responsibility, AND there were two sheep involved. I wonder why there were two sheep?
First John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but for the sins of the whole world. First Timothy 2:4 Who would have all men be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth. And perseverance of the saints is not bibliical. When we believe we can no longer be condemned. John 3:18 When we believe the gospel, (First Corinthians 15:3-4) we are sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption. Ephesians 1:13 and 4:30. We are not given the faith to believe. Eternal life is the gift when we believe. Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the GIFT of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Since it is a free gift, we have nothing go boast in. Jesus paid it all and we paid 0. We can only be saved by what Jesus did plus nothing. You can not add law/works to grace. Romans 11:6 And Romans 4:5-8.
And this. Galatians 1:6-9 Let them be accursed. There is no other gospel. First Corinthians 15:3-4 That Christ died for our sins, according to the scriptures, that He was buried and rose again on the third day, according to the scriptures.
John 6:40 And this is the will of Him who sent me, that all that seeth the Son, and believeth on Him, may have everlasting life, and I will raise him up on the last day. First John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God, that ye may KNOW YE HAVE ETERANL LIFE. Not because you were chosen but because you believed. When we believe we are chosen, but we are not chosen to believe.
jim kraft, this is my version of limited atonement of Christ. The sacrifice of Christ is only limited to anyone who satisfy the condition of salvation that is only to those who believe or those who express their trust in Christ. Thus it is limited to that group whether you call them the elect, the sheep, the believer, the Church etc. Thus the offer is universal and the potential is unlimited but the application is particular, it is specific only to them that believed.(1Tim4:10).
4:25, the answer is YES if they believe :) that includes anyone
I greatly appreciate this resource and the teachings of R.C. Sproul. They have been a great tool in my pursuits of Christ's teachings. I am curious though how one might understand 1 John 2:2 in light of definite atonement? That Christ's atoning sacrifice was for our sins, but not only our but the whole worlds sins. Maybe this is summed up in "sufficient for all, but effective to the elect", but if anyone could help expound upon this verse it would be much appreciated.
I think it’s referring to not just the Jews , but Jew and Gentiles. At babel when God divided the nations he basically divorced himself from humanity and let them be, and His portion was Jacob which eventually became the nation of Israel .After his resurrection Jesus inherited all the nations and all authority was given to him by the Father. At Pentecost Babel is being reversed,notice The Spirit enables people to understand tongues,At babel they were confused.Jesus atoned for the sins of the whole world not just the nation of Israel. If it actually means every single person then there will be people in hell that Were atoned for. I don’t know if this will help or make it worse lol.
@@Terrylb285 This helped a ton, thanks so much for sharing your insight!
Did Jesus atone for the sins of all mankind?
Well scripture shows otherwise:
1 Samuel 3:12-14 - “In that day I will carry out against Eli all that I have spoken concerning his house, from beginning to end. “For I have told him that I am about to judge his house forever for the iniquity which he knew, because his sons brought a curse on themselves and he did not rebuke them. “Therefore I have sworn to the house of Eli that the iniquity of Eli’s house shall not be atoned for by sacrifice or offering forever.”
So no atonement for Eli's house.
Darryl D. your contention is an error because you wrongly equates the atonement of Christ for all mankind against the atonement for Eli's house alone. Both are distinct from each other thus it cannot be the same.
It does not make sense, if God desires that no one should perish but determines some people to eternal damnation.
Pradip Limbu
Well it makes more sense than saying that God desires all to be saved yet in his omnipotence He is unable to save men. You need to study the subjunctive mood in grammar. For example, “If you repent you will be saved.” But evangelical repentance is not forthcoming from man. The only kind that man is naturally capable of if repenting because he got caught. Evangelical repentance is the sorrow for having offended God. That kind is conferred by the Holy Spirit on whom the Father has elected to receive it. Note, in the letters in the New Testament many of the letters are addressed to the “elect” not to the world in general.
I still wrestle with certain points of both calvinism and arminianism. There are points on both sides that are correct, and i have come to the conclusion that our inferior brains just cant comprehend why some things are the way they are. What seems complicated to us is simple to God and one day we will understand it all.
I believe in the complete sovereignty of the triune God. I certainly believe in Perseverance of the Saints as it says in John 10 28-29 [28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. [29] My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. That clearly states once you have received the free gift of God by grace through faith (Eph 2 8-9) that no one can pluck you from his hand.
I also understand that in Ephisians 2:1 it states we are dead in our trespasses, and if your dead you need to be brought to life "spiritually" and only God can do that, and how in John 6:44 it states that no one can come to me unless the father draw him so it is an act of God.
Then i read verses like Psalm 81 8-14
Hear me, my people, and I will warn you-
if you would only listen to me, Israel!
9 You shall have no foreign god among you;
you shall not worship any god other than me.
10 I am the Lord your God,
who brought you up out of Egypt.
Open wide your mouth and I will fill it.
11 “But my people would not listen to me;
Israel would not submit to me.
12 So I gave them over to their stubborn hearts
to follow their own devices.
13 “If my people would only listen to me,
if Israel would only follow my ways,
14 how quickly I would subdue their enemies
and turn my hand against their foes!
Now i dont know please mistake me if im taking that out of context but that sure sounds like God giving his people the freedom to choose whether to follow him or not. Or how our Lord says in Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. Honestly its all so confusing and like i said we will all come to the full understanding after this life of sactification we live hopefully in complete submission and servitude to Jesus Christ. There are solid points on both sides and i agree with certain points on either but if anyone could help me and give me some clarity that would be great.
You don't have a clue what is correct stop lying
R.C. Sproul seems to be sure that salvation is for the elect and mentions that Peter is not specific about what group. What makes R.C. confident/over confident that he is right? How come he has redifined ALL to be limitted. It's like working out a combinatio of two seemingly contradictory or opposite ideas to create a certain rhetorical or poetic effect and reveal a deeper truth, which just makes things more complicated. I'm glad the Bible is really not that complicated. Otherwise, the knowledge of truth will just be more confusing if R.C. were god. But I'm glad that Jesus is God, my Lord and Saviour. He said it and that settles it for me.
The atonement is limited but contrary to what R C Sproul teaches it is freely offered to all, both believer and u believer without distinction. Christ said, “Come to me all you who are weary and heavy laden and I will give you rest” Matthew 11:28. This invitation is not only for believers but also to unbelievers, the forgiveness of sins is offered without conditions to all men. The offer of the gospel is unconditional, the forgiveness of sins does not require faith from man nor repentance, on the contrary it creates faith. The forgiveness of sin is the object of faith and precedes faith, it is freely proclaimed to all with no strings attached, Revelation 22:17 “Let the one who is thirsty come, and the one who desires the water of life drink freely”. Christ is offered freely to all men, and it is this offer that creates faith, but faith follows the offer of the gospel it does not precede it. The good news of the gospel is proclaimed to all men unconditionally (neither faith nor repentance are required for salvation when the gospel is proclaimed, the gospel is an announcement that Christ has fully satisfied for the entire human race, both elect and reprobate. Anything less is no gospel at all, but a conditional covenant, instead of proclaiming the unconditional love for you.
False Gospel but nice try
@@hijohojo2868What is the Gospel?
Can I say to non-belivers that Jesus died for you?
I suppose if you do this as a Calvinist, there's a 50/50 chance that's a lie.
@@losnfjslefn8857 God does not cater to non believers as if they are the righteous and he owes them something hahahaha
You must be asking for yourself as you disbelieve and refuse to repent your blood is on your own head
What crazy incompetent blind logic of narcissistic evil
Jesus"I pray for them (believers),I am not praying for the world (unbelievers), but for those you have given me, for they are yours "(John 17:9)
Like to get any thoughts about a possible misquote of scripture he uses from 2 Peter 3:9. (See time stamp 20:18) . He says the scripture says “us”, but the Greek actually says you. Only the KJV uses “us”. He seems to be basing his argument on this one word. I am sure he did research on this verse in the Greek before using it, right?
Probably doesn’t dampen his point but just curious.
I’m not sure why he chose “us” either. But the “you” is very specific in that it’s talking to believers. So that doubly makes his point
The bible says we are saved by the grace of god through faith in Jesus. The grace of God comes by having faith. You are saying that the faith comes from the grace. SO which is correct. If God has allready chosen all those going to heaven, then the gospel would never Have to be preached. I believe that the gospel, as the word of God is powerful enough that anyone who hears it can feel the call of God on his heart. The potential is there. Some people have stone hearts. There has to either be an answer to the contradiction I posted at the start of this rambling of mine or else there truly is a contradiction in the bible.
.
You have certainly not watched the video which has made it clear that Gospel needs to be universally preached and shared to all people yet only those who are God's elect (only God knows whom He saves) will accept it while others downright reject it (reason why Christians are persecuted)...We preach the Gospel whithout having the knowledge of whether or not God will save that person...
It took me a few years to understand it but I was in my early teens. My dad, being an Independent Baptist pastor when I was younger taught us at home besides at church. He went through his Bible School back in the 60's when I was born. As his school taught Sufficient Atonement as it was Sufficient for everyone but only the Elect will be chosen. It is sufficient for the Lost but the lost are blind and cannot accept it anyway. Is Sufficient Atonement walking the fence between Limited Atonement and Free Will? To me, there is no Free Will at all but the lost are preached to as it is offered to him knowing the lost WILL NOT accept it. Did Christ die for the lost? If Christ died for the lost then why are they going to hell? The sins of the lost are not paid for by the cross. I was always taught that Christ fulfilled the law. A perfect Lamb was required to take the place of sin. Whose sin? Only the Elect.
If you believe Jesus accomplishes the exact same for ALL, and nothing more, this would mean that people, who end up in heaven, are not there because of what Jesus did... because... he accomplished the exact same, and nothing less, for those who end up in hell!
This would mean that those who are in heaven are there because of something other than what Jesus accomplished!
If this is true then Jesus does not save anyone! This would mean you are saved by “something other than Jesus”... if you end up in heaven!
If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. We are saved by grace through faith.
If you don't believe, then Jesus' blood will not cover you.
@@losnfjslefn8857 The problem I see is that if “faith” is not a part of the package of “Grace” and instead “faith” is *turned into* a *requirement first* to obtain “the package of Grace” then Grace is no longer Grace but a *wage earned* that has been simply renamed “grace”…
It seems as though this is what you have done in your post by making “confess and belief” the necessary requirement to earn “the wage” of Gods “grace”…
Then you further clarify that “Jesus’ blood *will not* cover you” unless “you” first meet the requirement of “belief”… this is indistinguishable from the “works righteousness” system.
Calvinists believe that “faith/belief” is *part of the package* of Grace that God “works in” the Elect at God’s determined time… because of this we Calvinists are the only ones who can say that God Saves by Grace *Alone* and actually justify it.
“Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, *both to will and to work* for his good pleasure.” (Php 2:12-13)
The “faith” part of the package of God’s Grace is the working in you “both to will and to work for his good pleasure”. Your “faith” is a work of God’s Grace… not a “requirement” necessary to earn God’s Grace.
The Bible further justifies that “faith” is a part of the package by stating…
“For by grace you have been saved through faith.
*And this is not your own doing;* (it is a work of God in you)
*it is the gift of God,* (faith is part of the package)
*not a result of works,* (you can not earn the package)
*so that no one may boast.”* (Eph 2:8-9)
You are saved by God’s working of faith in you ALONE!
@@CCShorts @CCShorts So you believe that faith is a work? Where in the bible does it say faith is a work? So based on your interpretation this is how Eph 2:8-9 would be read:
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: [9] Not of -works- *faith* , lest any man should boast.
Man obviously does not save himself, God does. God's grace is most definitely a gift, as is salvation. These gifts are given exclusively to those who have faith, who believe (who have faith in Jesus Christ, to be more exact). Now, is faith a gift? Yes, but the better question is, is faith an *EXCLUSIVE* gift? No, it's not.
Romans 12:3 KJV
For I say, through the grace given unto me, *to every man that is among you* (he's talking to the Gentiles that were "grafted in"), not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as _God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith_ .
The Gentiles Paul is talking to here are told not to boast (he warned them against boasting, thinking highly of themselves in previous chapters too), because everyone has been given a measure of faith.
I totally agree with you
I believe the gospel, that Jesus Christ died according to the scriptures, that he was buried and on the third day rose again ( 1st Cor. 15:1-4.) I trust in Jesus Christ's work on the cross; in the shedding of his precious blood for the forgiveness of my sins. I find that one would need a university degree in Biblical theology to understand this complex teaching that is Calvinism. For me, it needlessly muddies the waters of my faith. Must be for those who want to impress.
In natural life there has to be the shedding of blood (menses) before physical life is POSSIBLE, but human life doesn’t ACTUALLY begin until a certain act of human will takes place. In the same way, I believe, Christ’s shed blood makes spiritual life POSSIBLE (born again) but it takes an act of our will (faith, belief) to accept this gift of God (grace) and apply it to our life to receive the forgiveness of our sins and now begin our new ETERNAL life which can never be taken away from us because HE is able!
it takes an act of our will (faith, belief) to accept this gift of God (grace) and apply it to our life ?...so, we save ourselves, partly ?...NEVER !
@@englandshope689 How foolish? How hard is to understand that salvation is appropriated by faith and applied by God? We do not save ourselves by faith, that is the oldest straw man in the Calvinist's book. Faith is what God requires us to do before He does 100% of the saving.
@@n.holt7 man is justified by faith alone was Luther's main reason in starting the Protestant reformation you uneducated fake strawman lover wow
@@n.holt7 God requires absolute perfect obedience to His Torah
Which requires the nature only one man ever had.
You havent even gotten to the right door man glorifier
@@iacoponefurio1915 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
I Corinthians 1:21
God saves those who believe, not those who keep the Torah.
What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone.
Romans 9:30-32
The Gentiles attained righteousness by faith, while Israel did not because they saught righteousness by the Law.
2:Peter 3:8 DOES specifically identify the "us-ward" of 2 Peter 3:9. We see in Chapter 3 of 2 Peter that Peter is addressing this chapter to the "beloved". 2 Peter 3:1 "This second epistle , BELOVED, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your PURE minds by way of REMEMBRANCE." Who are the "beloved" to whom Peter is writing? -- BELIEVERS!!! This is further qualified as attributing to the "beloved" "pure minds" which he is calling to exercise "remembrance" of that which were taught to them by the holy prophets AND the commandment of "US" the apostles of the Lord and Savior (ref. 2 Peter 3:2). In verses 2 Peter 3:3 -7 Peter is speaking to "believers" concerning "they" (those persons who) "willingly are ignorant" of denying the God of Creation. Thus, these several verses focus upon and point out or contrast to "believers" the attitudes an unbelievers. When we come to 2 Peter 3:8 we see: "BUT, BELOVED, be not ignorant" Now the point of view has shifted from speaking to believers concerning unbelievers to speaking to believers ABOUT believers. That one little word "BUT" has GREAT importance and should not be over-looked. Thus the "willing" of 2 Peter 3:9 DOES express a "decree" of God, GIVEN by promise, to save all those who will TRUST in Jesus Christ for their salvation and further emphasized by Peter in 1 Peter 1:5. The POWER of God to "save" the elect is ASSURED AND infallibly decreed by God. There should be NO debate concerning the meaning of 2 Peter 3:9 for anyone who will simply READ the Epistle, paying attention to EVERY word thereof. This series by Dr Sproul is OUTSTANDING.
Spot on
The only confusion here comes when trying to twist scripture to fit it into man-made doctrine.
Acts 13:48 And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed. John 6:65 For this reason I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.
The post-Apostolic era included Gottschalk who in 9th c. Was condemned by Rome for advancing particular atonement.
One writer stated that a strong Trinitarian view would certainly lead one to recognize a unity of purpose between the three persons of the Trinity. But universal atonement introduces a fundamental disjunction between the universal intent of the Son who gave himself for all and the particular purpose of the Father who elected only some people, and of the Holy Spirit, who confers regeneration, faith and repentance to the elect only. This disjunction is the fatal flaw of universalism. Limite atonement is consistent with a unity of purpose between the three persons of the Trinity.
@@janebailey7408 Amen
Aaron Pilkey: I so relate to everything you say and how you say it. Our spirits witness the truth thru the Holy Spirit’s teaching. Please keep up your comments so that truth can be out there for those who are seeking. God has given you a gift to teach the truth.
Acts 13:48 What is the definition of "appointed" here, and who are we assuming did it? "Appoint" does has the definition of "arranged". The greek word is "tasso", and fun fact: Acts 18:6 uses "antitasso" for "when they resisted". Just wanted to show that "tasso" can be a human action, since its counter form is used as a human action. John 6:65 is a wonderful verse. It just doesn't prove limited atonement, but it is a beautiful fact. And make sure to keep it in context. If we just pull verses from the Bible and try to use it to prove a point, I could academically prove that Paul the Apostle was the best commentary writer ever, and he said in Gal. 2:20 that Jesus died for ONLY himself (Paul) because "[he] gave himself up for me/Paul." Now we don't believe that Jesus died ONLY for Paul, but if I pull that text out on it's own, the case could be made (again, I don't think Jesus died ONLY for Paul lol).
i personally think this statement Jesus made in (john6;37) should end this nonsense of limited atonement. (ALL THAT THE FATHER GAVE ME SHALL COME TO ME; AND HIM THAT COMES I WILL IN NO WISE CAST OUT.)
...so what happens to those whom the FATHER does NOT give to Jesus????
*_John 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day_*
@@kevinrtres amen kevin., However he is asking about those whom the Father has not sent to jesus, well my friend if you read carefully it's written (John6;37) if they seek him he will in no wise cast them out, now if they Reject him, the WRATH OF GOD already abides in them.
I believe in limited atonement. But not believing in it changes your entire theology. It opens the door to so many things that simply aren’t biblical.
Arminian sheep are the only sheep in the history of the world to choose their own shepherd.
1920s You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. Romans 11:19-21
Villarreal Marta Please explain what you mean by that.
1920s its a warning for us that just as the previous branches were broken off because of unbelief, we too will be if we stop living in repentance.
Stop living in arrogance and worrying about arminian theology and instead make sure you repent.
Villarreal Marta I’m not living in arrogance. I’m struggling with assurance and trying to put one foot in front of the other.
1920s that’s good to hear. If you are struggling with assurance I would point you to trust the work of God recorded in the scriptures. Read through the scriptures and focus on what God has done. Too many people open the Bible with a what must I do? Attitude instead of a what has God done for me? approach. If you believe and are baptized you “will be”saved.
Assurance is found in what God has done for us.
First of all almost All of the early church fathers Rejected Limited Atonement for many great reasons.Second of all there are no scriptures that say God elects people for Salvation before the world began.in fact many scripture teach that Christ died for All mankind,if they Repent as God and Jesus commands.in fact Jesus pleads with many and Pharseees to turn to Him. the Spirit says Come ,come and drink of the water of life freely!
Bob Free
You obviously haven’t studied much scripture and in particular Ephesians. You also do not know much about church history. Gottschalk was condemned by the Papacy in the 9th century for teaching that scripture taught limited atonement.
Bob Have you read the letter of Barnabas? The author seemed to have promoted a type or form of an atonement that was for God's people.
1John 2:2...expiation for all.....BUT...Heb.10:38,39!
Rev.14:12. Rev 20:15
For knowledge of God (1 peter...)
Whit Rom.9:16,18 So we should not resist the Spirit of God....who knows,if He will bring us to repent again? We must be ready! We must live holy......
« Whitout holiness no man shall see the Lord «
(Heb.12:14)
I notice that he didn't jump back one more verse or go back to the start of the chapter. The us includes the ungodly of verse 8, the scoffers of verse 3. That his shy he is patient, he is waiting for those who are ungodly to come to repentance... that is the whole context of why he needs to be patient... I think there are 2 options for R.C. here, either his is being deceptive to support his tulip dogma or he honestly can't see the context of verse 9...
Space cadet the ungodly never repent on their own
Like you thinking you are good and smart
Way off
@@iacoponefurio1915 I guess you didn't read verse 9 too then
2Pe 3:9
The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you,[fn] not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
I guess God was lying about holding off on the end of the world "not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance." (including the scoffers following sinful desires mentioned in verse 3).... my bad
This is the result of mixing philosophy with Scripture and creating a stumbling block for yourself and others.