Stock Driver Shaft vs Expensive Up-charge Driver Shaft - Using Titleist TS3 Driver ON COURSE TEST
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- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2024
- Do expensive exotic up-charge driver shafts make a difference? When buying a new driver its easy to be lured into spending even more money on a shiny bright coloured "exotic" up-charge shaft. Which shaft should you use? What shaft do I need? In this video I put a standard Project X shaft head to head against a £300 / $500 Graphite design Ad DI-7 Driver shaft in the brand new Titleist TS3 Driver. Ive already looked at spin rates, carry distance, total distance, the lot! This Time, I put the shafts head to head where it matters... out on the golf course!
Titleist, Taylormade, Ping, Callaway, Mizuno All offer mega expensive shaft options to help you hit the ball further and straighter... right? let's find out, and lets do it now!
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Great video!
For anyone who missed the very nuanced point I believe James was making...
He isn’t advocating not getting custom fit, nor is he he saying it’s 100% down to you, nor that equipment doesn’t matter.
This isn’t an “it’s the Indian not the arrow” video. More like, “it’s the Indian and the arrow!”
I believe his point is that the quality of the “stock” shafts is so much better than it used to be that for the vast majority of people paying the up-charge for a custom, aftermarket shaft probably isn’t worth it.
I totally agree with that point. There was a time when stock shafts really were cheap, even knockoffs of the better premium stuff. That just isn’t the case anymore. The manufacturers take great care with providing a broad assortment of premium shafts as stock options these days that will suit 90% of the players out there.
Please correct me if I’m missing the point of this video! I hate putting words in other people’s mouths.
😀
I went through a shaft fitting this past September and the orange shaft you tested in this video fit me the best. Honestly it was the best $300 I have ever spent. I picked up 20 yards carry, less rpm and improved my dispersion. What surprised me the most was when we put my original HZRD shaft back in my MP4, how difficult it was too manipulate the driver to get anywhere near the same ball flight, I EASILY got with the orange shaft. I agree most people shouldn't spend $300 on an upgrade but it was worth it in my case. I am 64 years old, driver swing speed is between 105 and 110 and I am a search handicap.
I think from an amateur golfers perspective that a standard shaft in any high end club is sufficient enough due to the inconsistency of ball striking. As long as the shaft is the correct weight and flex for your swing then I think that is good enough. Invest your money into something that will improve your game. Or invest it in the bar after a round like me 😀. Good video again btw. Good honest content.
Thanks Jordan! Appreciate that man!
$300 worth of lessons has a better chance of getting you extra yards than an "upgraded" shaft. Not being on Tour, my $60 UST V2 shafts works great, with money left over for a few sessions with a PGA instructor. The lessons stay with you, while next year there's a newer, longer better (more expensive) shaft option you just have to have. Want lower scores? Practice your wedges and putting.
Honestly I usally hit the stock x-stiff shafts in my drivers. It usally hits straight with a baby fade at times. And i still carry 290-310 yards on average.
And I'm really working o my wedge and putting. Just went in to test new putters and wedges. And I have taken a few golf lessons from a local pro that has dropped my score from 88-94 down to a range of 82-88
I went from a stock Tour 65s in my g425max driver to a n AD DI 6s and am getting more than 15 yards better according to trackman.
I’m certain it’s got everything to do with confidence.
With the AD DI, I can always feel the head whipping through. I didn’t have that experience with the tour 65s.
Wow, ive been searching the whole internet for this comment. Using the same stock set up g425max and the Tour 65s just doesn't have any feel for me and been on the edge if i should go for the tour AD shaft change or not and your comment just helped me make that decision. Hopefully it will give me more distance too 🤞🏾. Thanks
How are you still liking the ad di 6s. I was thinking if getting the same shaft in the Srixon zx7. The driver is marked down to 350 and 250 for the shaft.
Two and a half years later - and this content is still top value. Thank you, slimmer Jim.
Hahaha I’m working on it!
@@JamesRobinsonGolf Me too mate, but it's seriously difficult. My French wife cooks the best chicken and mushroom pie I've ever tasted. The local wines (Gascony) make alcohol reduction nigh on impossible. I'm just jealous I did not play golf half as well as you 45 years ago at your age now.
Your last point nailed it. Both of them fit your swing.
Hey James love your content, I follow all (most) golf you tubers and have seen their standard of content get better and better. I have to say your content is on the up and up at a impressive rate. Keep it up and thanks for the effort.
Thanks Allan. Really appreciate you taking the time to say so.
Most sensible people would give up at least 5% of their distant for less dispersion, you've proved the stock shafts hold their own against the premium shafts in both dispersion and distance for a lot less money, good job. Love these on course tests, too many others spending too much time over analysing the numbers in the studio.
The stock stuff has massively improved in the last 5 years
Good video
Thanks Sean! Appreciate that mate
Good insight, probably not going for the upgrade shaft in this comparison James. As it doesn't hit it for you down the middle of the fairway. Which is what I would expect from a 300 pound upgrade.
James, another good video..as an engineer for almost 30 years, and having talked with engineers from Ping and Taylormade, I know that in the last 5 years or so OEM's are constantly trying to find shafts that work best with their products. They spend tons of their effort to make the best matched shafts to their heads, thus better fitting and working stock options in shafts. Ping has go so far as to brand their own shafts, although most are made by UST or Aldila for Ping stocks, but you are right, OEM's using watered down shafts is a thing of the past. I've tried both stock and upcharge, and in the end they all are so similar it's not worth the extra money for little gains.
Great review James and helped me 'keep things real' on what I spend, as looking to replace my whole bag (as current equipment is circa 25 years old) and have no idea where to start, other than 'get fitted'! Thank you and keep up the great work.
Love my Tour AD BB!! Granted I'm fortunate to not have to pay retail but I went through 7 different shafts that were ok until I put this in. I was 13 longer and straighter. 😁 I did have the Rogue Silver and Project Yellow before, both also good but spinny for me.
Be interesting to hear a pros view on club shaft upgrades,and how many have changed from the stock shafts of their manufactures shaft?
the even flo shaft is a favorite very stable and works well I had a set of Irons with Penley graphite shafts at a 100 USD a shaft. A great shaft for irons if you like graphite. That was years ago and then the changed the groove rules and that was it for them
Another great on course real test. Highlights the importance of being fitted correctly and how things change when on course. Nice and warm down under James, waiting for my new 919 forged irons to arrive. I have fitted a hand crafted PX even flow 6.0 shaft in my g400 lst and have a marked improvement in consistency and feel (a personal hard to describe entity). Keep up the fantastic reviews/v logs James.
Have never bought an upgraded shaft and now have no plans to start. Thanks James
Cheers Phil :)
Just watched your video from February about the red ardmore 2 putter. Man has your on camera confidence improved quickly. Keep up with the great videos. Love them (been watching every day for translation few months 👌)
Depends on budget, what you consider value for money, what suits you best and the confidence you have with it.
Three years ago I was off 19, now i am off 16, I have been playing 46 years, two years ago I went driver searching for one that meets the marketing hype.
Had fitting tests with all major drivers with track man and also stumbled on a Titleist Thursday event at a different range.
Here's my journey - Quickest result would have been to go with fitting advice but I enjoyed trying different options.
I play on a coastal course with regular 20-30mph winds which show any driver issues big style.
I Had a Ping G20 with Regular shaft and a backup (for windy days!) Titleist 910D2 Project X 5.5 ( In the 910 I also tried a Diamana 50 Reg shaft and Rip Phantom Red Eye Stiff.)
After another test I bit the bullet and bought M2 2016 (Great distance gain but dubious on course dispersion tried different shafts Daimana and Fujikura to cure issue but no avail.) even changed to a mates Big Bertha Alpha 2014 Fubuki Stiff shaft, better dispersion less distance, bought on ebay a 915D2 with Tour spec original Diamana Whiteboard X Flex 70 for fun.
Sold all bar the 910 D2 fitted with the Project X 5.5 shaft, then the adapter moved on the shaft. The pro had to remove adapter which meant, after using heat he had to shorten shaft effectively tipping the shaft by 1.25". In the meantime I switched to Diamana X Flex shaft and it worked a treat.
Had a lesson ! That was the best money spent, Improved strike and dispersion.
So thought I know, get a 917D2 head that should improve things even further (Well done Titleist for sticking with same adapter) so bought one fitted to Diamana shaft and it didn't perform compared to the 910, couldn't find the centre of the club and the head felt heavier despite almost the same weight as 910, so back to 910D2. On a whim I tried the shortened Project shaft in 917D2, Eureka!! a perfect result.... no change in distance despite shorter shaft but much better flight and dispersion finding the centre 75-80% of time.
So by testing, trial & error ended up with a Driver that does what is says !!.
You have, yet again, proved that it ain’t the arrow, it’s the Indian
My Grandpa told me that same thing for years....cheers to that
Great Video James! Stock shafts now a days have improved a lot for some manufacturers( well the drivers are much more expensive now too). Being a club fitter and Titleist is one brand that I fit, I test all the fitting shafts for radial consistency on my Laser frequency machine. The EvenFlow's consistency is fairly good, comparable to some 200US dollar after market shafts. A premium after market shaft over 400,500 dollars generally have even better consistency. We are talking about a different of 2,3 CPM. Some manufacturers' stock shafts have frequency differences of 10CPM for their stock shafts. Not all stock shafts are made equal. What aftermarket shafts do is that it offers much broader range of weights, balance points, EI profiles than the stock shafts a manufacturer offers. For fitters if just provides much more options and tools to make the fit even better, not saying that it will always be superior than the stock shafts. You have to test to find out.
Again James, really love the way you do your testings out on the course. Keep it going! Maybe next one test a driver at 44.5 and one at 45.5, same shaft and swing weight and see which one wins in terms of distance and direction.
You can’t beat on course testing and yours is by far the best. Loving the Adidas clothing and shoes 👌
Cheers TT! Glad your enjoying it!
Good video and I agree, heaps more to do with the upcharge shaft's cost that will improve the score and enjoyment of the game much more.
Yes James great video,and you are right can't put a price on a good swing
I got some new Grafalloy red and blue sc shafts with grips and adapters for $15 each on eBay, they play as well as any other shaft I've used.
Nice to see someone being honest and not trying to flog something - keep it up!
Are you considering doing some instruction vids any time? Was thinking during a round (or playing lesson) doing tips/technical ideas as you go round - you could probably spread the vids over a series of vids and add further comment in post production? - just a thought......
Great vlog with great points made 👍🏻. Just started following and really enjoying vlogs 😃
A club consists of a grip, a shaft and a head. All have to be fitted to you. If an expensive up-charge shaft works best for you then it was the right choice. The only way to be sure is to hit a lot of shots on multiple days and see if there is any noticeable difference. IMO if both the up-charge and the stock shafts are the right fit for you, the differences will be small.
Great video James really enjoyed that one, just goes to show everything depends on strike and the only person who does that is the player and this will always be the case. Got to go doing it now📹✋
Thanks mate! Hahahaha brilliant
First of all I want to commend you on braving the November cold to bring us content. I do like your videos and love that you’ve been doing both range a course reviews. Keep up the good work! Personally I’ve never bought the upcharge shafts, I will change grips, but I agree with many of the posters below that the stock shafts are really fit for the heads. In Titleists case, they have 3 shafts stat are “stock” for the TS2/3 for someone to get fitted in. 7 if you include stiffness in that equation. You can find the right one for you if you get fitted correctly.
It very much depends on what the stock shaft is. I think you had a great “start’ shaft. Some stock shafts are just not that good for the person. I agree with many commentors that there is a vast improvement in what is a stock offering nowadays, and if THAT PART of the club doesn’t fit, consider a different shaft. I had a stock shaft that was very wrong for me and went for a change with a massive difference. The future will probably be a shaft AND club head fitting… which some places are already doing.
Great vid James! 👍🏻, I know this was a Titleist shaft video but , Mizuno are really a brilliant company the amount of shafts they have at no upcharge is just unreal , r s x you name it in a huge variety and ones the players currently use
Very good video again James , I have a so called up charge shaft but I bought the previous model ,the Diamana blue board b series 60 x ,when the BF series came out the B series were being sold for under £100.00 if you looked around you could get a bargain .Got fitted for TS2 tried various shafts including mine and mine gave the best numbers ,so it's in the new club and it just feels good and familiar .Shame these companies don't let you buy just the head ,as I have a Hazzdus Smoke 6.5 propping up the wall at home .If a shaft is cheaper or more expensive but it works ,keep it ,most of the shafts are decent these days .
Titleist may not be the best sample driver to test with. Their stock Evenflow shaft might show as an upcharge for a different manufacturer. That's why you get the comments that the Evenflow is an upcharge shaft. It's because for other manufacturers, it is. I've done plenty of shopping and it is amazing what is stock for one, is an upcharge for another. And yet, for another manufacturer, it is vice versa. It can be (and is) very confusing sometimes.
David Lum then that makes it that much easier for me, I will be buying a Titleist driver.
I’d say the distance comes from the higher launch you mentioned in this and the other video.
Just trying the Bridgestone ball myself too!
I have the same driver with the same shaft . I think the even flow is as good as any shaft on the market!
Great content and honest opinions once again James. If only you could take the clubs you are fitted for out on the course to test 🤭.Oh wait a minute, buy from you local pro and that is exactly what you can do😃. Keep up the good work.
The most expensive set of clubs is the one I have on order through Club Champion Fitters full bag fitting session. The Driver shaft was a +$500 uocharge (Ping G400). Frankly probably not a smart decision but “lab” testing swing/contact was tuned to my swing and feels better than any off the rack set I’ve eve4 owned. Getting older and having had back fusion surgery and r3covering from knee surgery, my swing speed is pretty pathetic, but the fitting is getting me all I can get ...
That's the same orange expensive shaft Sir Coach Lockey & Lord Mark Crossfield uses with there hybrid. Cost is relative but for me it's too expensive. Now, that being said, I did spend over $300 for my Scotty Cameron putter. As always, great video!!
Good video. Dude you were crushing that TS3, I'm not sure why you'ed take that out of your bag.
Thanks for all the great content...I look forward to all your videos.
Hi James , I agree with you that it's impossible to tell if a upgrade shaft out performs a stock shaft. Too many variables, strike, path, speed etc. But I agree one shaft might suit someone more than another shaft, lower spin, flight etc. But what do you actually get for the extra dosh?
Another informative video James, great dedication to your fans to play in the cold weather. I have never had an "upcharge" on any of my drivers. But it looks like to me that the "stock" shaft was performing much better than the "expensive" fitted shaft. but on the other hand, you could go do that again another time and the roles may possibly be reversed. I would at least try this experiment a couple of times to get more "data", I don't think you can prove anything if you only do it once. If they don't, i would go "talk" to my fitter, asap.
I think the difference between stock and upcharge shafts has become minimal as the stock options are so good now especially that evenflow! I have a tour ad di 7x I was thinking of putting in my new M3 driver but will stick with the Aldila rogue silver 70x for now. Another cool video James, doing a great job!👍🏼
Hi James,
I can't understand how anyone could justify an extra £300 pounds on a shaft!!! Ha ha I could have a new / good quality used full set of clubs for that money 😀
when you swing over 115 mph and play under 5 hdcp, shaft will matter.
It appears that your stock shaft is flying a bit higher than the upcharge shaft, so that added carry could explain the additional distance in the wet, soft conditions. I think you mentioned that early on.
It is worth noting that several of the major manufacturers are now offering several “premium” options as stock shafts like this Even Flow. I was fitted for my Ping G400 and ended up with the Aldila Xtorsion Copper Mamba for no upcharge. It might not have made much or any difference in my play but I sure felt I was getting a better deal.
Loved the last quote ,true you can't buy the golfing god's you can only buy that vital amount of dispersion and confidence through fitting or trial and error be it cheap or expensive ,the rest is personal abilities and luck
Cracking video James but I think next time you're out on the course you should maybe think of putting a toorie on your ears looked like they were suffering from frost bite 😀
Daja vu. Nice to see you taking it to the course.
Great review on how little difference expensive shafts make on the course to the average golfer.
Swing changes are really hard. We all have to forget & let those bad shots go when we are making changes.
We just fall back into our old habits very quickly. Your practice swings are looking great.
What do you think yourself?
Excellent Comparison James!...Spending $400 to $500 for a driver then another $300 is just crazy IMO...BTW, I’ve got the same shoes and love them!😁
Great content fella. That TS3 seems to be a beast and something to get the M3 440 out the bag. I've always thought the up charge shafts are more of a head game. I've been fitted it's £300+++ it's the mutts nuts, therefore I play better. The correct head and loft will have more of a say than a shaft in my opinion. Very likely also that you can get a stock shaft in a similar profile to the uncharge too.
Nice vid. I see Aaron Rai wears two gloves normally, I would be if I was playing in your temperatures.
Nice video on this comparison of shafts.
....exactly....stock shafts are better and more choices....good video!
Nice looking course you are on there James
Would rather spend the 300 on lessons, I run the stock shaft in my Callaway XR-16 and only thing I need is the stiff version vice the regular
So here's the deal all stock shafts are crap to the real deal when you get FITTED for the right shaft. You pretty much waste your money when you buy off the rack (and believe me I'm guilty of doing this just like anyone else). Now I got fitted the other day at a really professional club fitter and let me tell ya golf will never be the same again. Once you get fitted you will see the difference between garbage and the real thing and you will find out that the education that you get is amazing!
Every shaft model has a different profile (firmer tip, firmer butt, more weight in the butt etc etc) You can't compare apples for apples, just go get fit by someone who has experience eg a club builder. Stock shafts all have different profiles as do upcharge shafts. If you compared the Evenflow to a Rogue Max (both stock) you'd get different results, as each shaft will perform differently to an individual's swing. Shafts are not one size fits all. The best fitting experience i've had was at Tour-X, where they have a ridiculous range of choice. The thing that stood out for me though was the expertise and experience of the club builder. Ex-tour with Adams, and has worked with many pros. Can't beat that for quality.
Geronimo McDuggins How can you compare apples to apples when the apples aren’t the same? One apple might have more weight at the base and another at the top. Yes the product is the same but in name only, not in makeup.
Can’t you say the same thing about the driver itself. Why pay $600 for something when you can get a second hand one that does the exact same thing lol 😂
Can you compare old balls you would find on the golf course with brand new balls to see if there's a difference in distance and consistency?
Got something coming you’ll like mate
Good vid...I have tried expensive shafts and never purchased...the money you pay for very minimal gains just isn’t worth it
@sir les if you had a proper fitting then what I said should be the case...if you buy off the rack you should have better gains with upgraded shaft...in your case you weren’t fitted properly or bought off the rack
The only way you can upgrade your game is threw lessons to learn the proper way to deliver the club through the ball and practice,practice and more practice. I've learned the hard way, you can't buy a game off the shelf.. thanks for vid bro
The white even flow stiff shaft in TS2 goes lower flight for me,i have an ad di 6 in a fairway wood love them both with equal measure.
The evenflow shaft t1100 is the best value for money bye far cracking shaft .
Couldn’t agree more
@@JamesRobinsonGolf really enjoying your videos I'm out Injured at the min and look forward to see what u come up with each day. Great job 👍👍
Great video James again👍totally agree with all your comments on that video stock shafts are pretty good these days👍
I’d like to see you compare the stock even flo from titleist vs. one that you buy direct from project x.
Good video, but I think a better shaft would work better for certain swings, more for the mid to high handicap player.😃👍🏌🏼
Nice vid James, very informative
Thanks William
I'd rather have the £300 in my pocket and 20 yards shorter,at my level distance not that important
Well that made me laugh! So tell me James, is the Evenflow a standard shaft or an upcharge one 🤔🤔🤔
Nice plug for the Adidas shoes and PING wrench 😉 I hope others get our 'Northern Humour'.
Grounds Staff look to be making good job of 'the bunker that isn't a bunker'...Fixby is looking good, we've just gone onto mats🤐
Top and bottom of shafts and choice of shaft...its what fits you and not the cost that counts. PING did the all drivers cost the same whatever shaft we put in it deal years ago. One of my mate went for a fitting and had a Purple Ice fitted (when it was the clubfitters darling) the upcharge...NOTHING! their fitter said "we're here to put you into whatever works best for YOU, not to make money out of you". Now that's not strictly true, of course they want to make money out of us however, I appreciate not being ass raped by a golf company 😉
James, what is the golf bag you are using. I love it
Loved this video...I think the better comparison would have been the SR flex in the Graphite Design because you need a lot of swing speed to hit the S its like an X flex
I was fitted for both Robert?
Oh ok thanks for the heads up@@JamesRobinsonGolf now I know better!
Thank you for comparison. Are there ever quality issues with shafts? Id want to be sure the shaft im using doesn't have any defects. So, does one shaft get more quality control than another?
Great video james nice to see you back to your best lol 👍👍👍
My favorite shaft was the Sanvik titanium shafts. I wonder if you could still find one and test it against the new shafts? It was heavier and at 45" was the same weight as a 43" steel shafted driver that was normal back then.
All that matters is the look of the shaft - I personally like a white and black shaft > that's all that matters to me (maybe feel..Unless you play golf for a major amount of money / same with cycling)
Great video!! How did the evenflow t1100 compare to the hzrdus smoke black?? Were you able to test that shaft out?
Great vlogs , any tips on winter golf ⛳️🏌🏽
This was fantastic information
hey james hit 3 or 5 at a time with each club when you are doing this gives a bit more statistical confidence to what you are doing
Like the thinking Alan but the whole idea behind on course testing for me is that one chance we get! The dry ball data works for comparisons for me like on the previous video. Thanks for watching :)
@@JamesRobinsonGolf , Ah yes I see your point :-)
Great video James. You got to have a bank balance like Warren Buffet to pay out that much extra on a shaff
i love having different shaft lenght and interchangable shaft to test stuff out
i have 2 drivers (R15 TP 430cc and jetspeed TP with fujikura speeder evolution757,matrix ozik hd6)
and i have a mini driver 14 degree and 2x3 wood rbz,jetspeed and 3x5wood rbz,jetspeed,r11s
im starting to swap shaft in the moment to test things out to have the best of the club....i dont like thoses stock 1inch1/2 longuer than standard
I've learned that it's pretty much a waste of time trying to buy a shaft thats either stock or upcharged if you're not fitted for it. The technology in golf has gotten so good that depending on your swing, depends on which shaft is right for you. The more expensive shaft might not always be the best one for you. Go get fitted. Not by Dicks sporting goods either. Go to a fitter who has multiple shafts and heads and launch monitor to get all of your stats dialed in for you. If the fitter doesn't have that technology, dont waste your time. Cool video though.
Can't beat the smooth feel of Graphite Design
Just FYI for anybody who may be turned off by the price tag... you can’t find any weight or flex of the AD-DI on eBay for $200 at the absolute max for a one time pull. I’m not a big fan of it in the driver, but it’s the greatest fairway wood shaft of all time, without a doubt
Great blog James 👍😁
Plz James do a full course review... And course vlogs
The only difference I have seen here is in the swing. That’s why these tests should be done by a robot that way any difference will be due to shaft alone, not the difference in swing. For someone who has inconsistent swing the shaft is the least of his worries.
How long are each of those shafts? Would you say getting an "upgraded shaft" to shorten the driver would be worth it?
great video James .....take the extra $$$ spend it on lessons and a few pints ....cheers
Swings looking good
So many club golfers talk absolute nonsense when it comes to shafts. Genuinely, I’ve never met any golfer thats got any real, shot saving advantage from changing shafts. The difference they make are so tiny, that an ever so slighty off centred strike will massively override anything the shaft does.
Upgrade your shaft to see an improvement in your game for 300 quid, or spend that money on a good coach?
There is no choice to be made!
Which shaft are you gaming currently in the TS3 James?
For a 20 handycap guy like wich driver should out of the new ts2 or ts3 and what shaft?
James do you have any rubbing on the heels with your Tour 360 2.0 shoes? I'm a long term adi fanatic but the original ones are horrible to wear for 18 holes...
Never bought an expensive upcharge shaft. Like the looks of the evenflow shaft better than the expensive one. Difference between the both shafts for me is not worth the extra 🤑in fact for me the stock was better...hole one on the fairway, second one further forward and a shot to the green , third hole further and last hole much further and on the fairway👌🏽😎🏌️
I’m a junior and I don’t like bright coloured shafts I think they look really shoddy.
Another great one pal . Agree on what your saying or is it just that your a Yorkshire man 😂
😂😂😂
Excellent vid 👍🏌️
Thanks Kenny! :)