id barely call it a crowdering considering how much more pathetic it was. Think what you will about Sam Seder, but he never flexed his mid-tier biceps and fucked the gain on his mic like a 5ht grader on xbox live.
@@777icekitsune Based move from Ethan, Crowder has a whole panel behind him and people prepping him up, so why not tag up with someone for a little help. Well, little is an understatement because Crowder and co. are terrified of Seder, but oh well, that's on them.
Damn I wonder how much work they put into having the other guy to show up. I'm sure they were expecting some epic Crowder like reaction. Instead no one cares and they had audio issues lol
Often I'm shy and intimidated about the idea of making a RUclips channel but seeing someone fumble using his microphone like this reminds me that I'll be just fine.
Got deja vu vibes when the 4th indistrial revolution was brought up but no one disccsued it. But the "pile of shit vs diarrhoea" analogy from Haz was certainly a power move
I think it's great branding for Infrared to name himself after a wavelength so long that it escapes human notice. The only way he could've been more on the nose was if his name was "white noise".
Haz is the perfect example of someone who isn't actively listening, he's just holding his breath till someone gives him an opening to steamroller them.
With the way Jackson Hinkle came in I was expecting a 2v1 but instead we got an intro nobody could hear due to his mic peaking. Even worse I don't think Destiny knew who he was so this just came across as awkward since he just walked off and let Infrared just come back and have the rest of the conversation lol
@@ScereMore so that there is a lot of misinformation and people doing their own "research". If it's true, then the context and the humor behind the Haz-Hinkle swap is actually funny. If it's not true, it just seems like extreme fanboying from your side/being butthurt by destiny for some reason. If you got a source but don't provide it, then it makes me believe that you know that your "source" is sketchy and you would rather keep it hidden. Doesn't matter which one it is tbh, I'm just genuinely curious about the source, as it sounds sort of funny.
I love time stamps, especially when the editor can give a little flair. Like one of D more recent videos said "CTV suddenly comes in with a metal chair" or something like that.
The boy says "So, to begin" and I already want to torch my speakers. It's a pity, because he's pretty great at expressing himself, but man, if only he could tone down the Neanderthal voice.
Also I agree with Destiny on how it is unbelievably stupid for people to say it's the Democrats fault to not have this infrastructure bill passed when almost any time a progressive bill is brought out it is almost GUARANTEED 50 "No's" meaning we need 50 "Yes" votes and if ONE senator says no then it's fucked. We have the slimmest of slim majorities and this bill, while widely supported, is not exactly an easy one to pass.
@@Agora13 oh for sure this attempt was pathetic at best. Especially since the fucking gain on the mic was set to the setting of 6th Grader in a COD lobby
Calling him an extremist is like calling you a degenerate because you indulge in polyamory. Is it true? You can argue that. Is it accurate? Maybe. Is it loaded? Yes. Absolute blind midwittery. You need to be better than that.
He called him extremists as a perpetual underdog than can keep winning brownie points for being the underdog without never actually competing, or risking anything.
also, your analogy doesnt really make much sense. are you trying to compare the moral loading of both situations? what do you suggest calling somebody with extreme opinions?
@@98danielray destiny said so right after calling him extremist when he clarified. Again, he mentioned that it was not as an attack of his views, but his unwillingness to join discourse of how to improve the parties. Like, an underdog, who no one expects to win, who get praised regardless of his performance, but who never risk anything in a serious attempt to win. like criticizing both parties outside the political arena, getting paid internet money for it while not doing anything useful like mutual aid or proping local third party politician in an effort to make them win.
01:09:13 "If someone doesn't want to eat shit, you don't know what their favorite food is. They just don't want to eat the shit" Ah, Yes. Thank you for that amazing analysis.
This talk was pretty bad with Infra being super hard to listen to and the sheer amount of grain in his mic, but the talk with FilthyRobot after made it all worth it
"it takes a great amount of intelligence to discover sinmple things is like an axiom of how computers work you use a lot of power to discover very little" lmao, the politics ML guy discovered computer ML
When Sam Seder crashed the Stephen Crowder debate he flipped out and acted like Sam was some nobody clout chaser but in this instance the surprise debater IS a nobody clout chaser and neither Dylan or Destiny react to it.
I discovered Hinkle several months ago and thought he was cool for a bit... But the more I watched of him, the more I realized he's incapable of having an actual conversation and has some REALLY shitty takes. He's essentially Infrared Lite.
@@lukullberg955 I did watch the Vaush debate and it was indeed gratifying. It doesn't, however, make up for the rest of Hinkle's dumbassery. His debate with Dylan Burns(whether right or wrong on the subject matter) was an embarrassment... Super small dick energy.
@@persoro4015 Right as the debate begins, Infrared says to hang on and that someone is at his door... Moments later Hinkle sits down and starts flexing like an idiot. ruclips.net/video/2v_mf2EmUhM/видео.html I have no idea how you missed it. Lol
Haz won on every substantive point. Destiny was just factually wrong on so many accounts. What was so baffling to me is how DGG expected Haz to write a novel on his fantasy America land in the debate. Do you expect Haz to describe all of the nature of the universe? If you're not being vague in a 1-hour debate, you're just full of shit. My impression was that Haz didn't have the intention to wade into the muck of "policy" wonkery & debating about hypotheticals about which utopia he would build. Haz isn't the one drafting the policies for third parties. That's not how policies are mentioned. And then, when he was pressed he literally did mention policies. He mentioned UBI and debt-forgiveness, but d.gg and Destiny just lie about it. Alas, typical d.gg tactics used to derail the debate and reframe it in Destiny's favor when he doesn't know shit on a topic. That being said, on the history of third parties, Haz was factually right, and Destiny was wrong. When Destiny said that it was a contradiction to say you don't know what the people want, while saying you know what they don't want, Haz proved him to be logically wrong. Destiny never once responded to Haz's arguments about special interest groups. Destiny was also proven wrong when he said that the internet doesn't have a bearing on politics when Haz brought up the Justice democrats. Destiny was proven wrong when he said that Haz never helps local candidates when Haz mentioned supporting and interviewing Steven Estrada. Destiny lied about Haz not bringing up actual policies, since Haz brought up UBI and debt-forgiveness. Not to mention that Destiny was simultaneously saying that the internet doesn’t affect movements, and asking Haz to do more on the internet to help movements. Destiny wants to debate about policy, but funnily enough, talking about policy is a massive cope because no one cares what policies you want. The democrats actively sabotage the chance at healthcare reform. Their promises for healthcare have no more substance than Trump's promises to fix Obamacare. The only way the moderate reforms that would benefit most Americans can get done is through opposing the two-party system. Even an unsuccessful third party is more likely to indirectly result in this, in that they influence the political narrative and what's on the table, forcing the two parties to pass more popular policies themselves to maintain power. The actual barrier to the policies the democrats pretend to believe in, are the Democrats themselves, as they are beholden to special interest groups who don't want to see these policies passed. Changing the party from within already failed. So why repeat the same failures over and over again? Someone might say ”if someone tells you they will vote democrat because they hope they will live up to their platform of providing modern affordable healthcare or whatever, why should we instead convince them not to vote or to instead vote for a third party” Well, to that I would say that the democrats are a part of the reason why we have a crisis of healthcare, to begin with. In 2016, I was pro-Bernie, I was not against trying this method out, but historically it just has not worked and even the most progressive democrats get co-opted again and again. What you have to understand is that most of the people actively involved in politics are not the ones directly affected by it. The people who actually have the time to build a third party are not the same people just struggling to make it by. And if these people are actually serious about politics, they can either A. betray the people to the failed two-party system, or B. work on building a third party and forsake the democrats. There is no middle ground here. If you are in the latter camp, then in order to have a real political existence you have to be willing to risk the death of the democrats, or else you become indistinguishable from them. What you have to understand is that the people most ideologically defending the democrats and saying you have to vote for them, are people who, to begin with, are banking on healthcare reform to afford insulin.
1:43:05 "We're not on 8 Mile..." It seems that it's all about style over substance for this guy. Word-limit-based grading systems haven't been good for this man.
Then he complained that the Democratic Party isn’t unified, then he complained that the Justice Dems are divisive, I’m a half hour in and this dude’s points are just incoherent.
The vocabulary that this dude decides to use is pretty strange. Can’t tell if he’s trying to appear more knowledgeable by doing this or if this is actually the way he talks
"I don't know what dialectical materialism is therefore the people don't and shouldn't either" was his attitude and the biggest COPE I've witnessed in a debate. If you actually pay attention to the debate Destiny was beat on nearly every topic. Destiny failed to address nearly every argument Haz made, most importantly he never addressed the role that special interests groups play. And on many points he just logically lost, like claiming that in order to know what the people don't want you must know what they want. The idea that Bernie wasn't gatekept and that sharing info with Hillary wasn't gatekeeoing was just disingenious. The idea that Haz never supported local candidates, just demonstrably wrong stuff. The idea that online politics doesn't matter, was completely debunked once haz brought up the Justice democrats. He was historically wrong about how third parties emerge, but dismissed it because it's too many years ago. He dismissed land reform which Haz described in terms of modern ideas like UBI as outdated. Pretended that Haz never mentioned concrete ideas like UBI and debt-relief. He said stuff that was just historically and factually wrong and when Haz points it out he says "oh, well that was a 100 years ago" LOL. Destiny's approach merely amounts to "don't question or think you're worthy of questioning the legitimacy & staying power of the status quo". Let alone the theoretical level, even on just the bare minimum level of factuality Destiny was proven wrong several times. Destiny debates always end the same way... he reduces everything to "it's so complicated. you obviously don't understand the intricacies of parliamentary politics" "But it was 200 years ago, special interests are so strong now it doesn't matter!" Way to admit you're powerless and deserve nothing. The irony is that it was Destiny who brought up the history of third parties lmao. He was just wrong on his own terms. "We can't get into special interests groups, that's a whole other topic" as if that's not the whole point. Haz also had a great introduction on the emergence of the Republican Party as a result of the crumbling Whigs, who much like todays Dems, dragged their feet on popular policy. The third party will exist in the form of interest until it becomes concrete from the implosion of the other. The historical parallels shouldn't be ignored.
I think it's important to remember that the motion up for debate is whether or not one should, at present, vote for the Democrats or a third party. The answer is to me pretty obviously to vote Democrat. I encourage you to watch CPG Grey's video about election systems to flesh out the logic better but basically, third parties are more native to parliamentary systems, which we do not have in the U.S. We live under "first-past-the-post" and so while yes, as you and Haz pointed out, there have been times in American history with more than 2 viable parties present, things have in modern times coalesced to the point where there's scarcely a single solution to an issue that can't find a home in one of either party. Destiny was specifically looking for such solutions but UBI and debt-relief that Haz brought up are already being incorporated into the Democratic platform. Things like land reform and dialectical materialism would likely need a third party to push forward but again, the topic of debate revolved around what should voters pick right now, thus currently, voting outside the Democratic party is basically another Ross Perot scenario, i.e. effectively voting for Republicans. I do want to give you credit here. I think overall Destiny treated Haz poorly here for no clear reason and was overly dismissive of the points brought up. I would argue, contrary to Destiny's opinion that Haz should have been given more leeway in speaking time considering that he had the harder task of constructing a novel position, while being steered around with incessant attacks. Like you mentioned, the gate-keeping of Bernie from the Democratic primary was completely glossed over and Haz really couldn't get a word in edgewise to what otherwise could have been an entire debate topic on its own. Also, attacking Haz for talking online instead of going door-to-door or something was totally unfair. Truth is we could all be doing more out in the world. That really has no bearing on whether or not there are better systems to advocate for. So, yeah. I suppose Destiny was trying to win by the narrowest margins possible but still, I'm gonna keep voting Democrat. I think you as well went to the point that: there won't really be a third party in the future, there'll have to be a faction within one of the parties that overthrows the establishment, so still 2 but maybe remade versions.
imagine using an SM7B one of the best and cleanest sounding dynamic mic and just JACKING THE FUCKING GAIN MAKING IT SOUND LIKE YOU'RE DEEPTHROATING A CELL PHONE MICROPHONE FUCK ME
@@allesgoenner did i specifically say this was haz's fault?? i'm sorry i should have been more clear bc apparently people have no fucking idea how to read. idgaf if it was haz's mic or not. it sounds like shit.
Was that other guys intro supposed to be funny or something he said democrats are causing us to not have healthcare and not have free public tuition? Never heard someone say we should have “free public tuition” lmaooo
I advocate for 3rd party bcuz democrats are not united enough... I wanna 3rd party with a wide umbrella to appeal to everyone. How is this guy serious...
Thinking out loud his wishful fantasy land. And he thinks streamers and youtubers could levarage their audiences for a competing 3rd party in a massive coutry like the USA. That could've been more realistic in a country where there isn't a dominant two party system.
Destiny: ITS JSUT SO COMPLEX NO ONE KNOWS HOW TO SOLVE IT Haz: But the complexities aren't the reason the problem isn't solved, companies like Blackrock, and real-estate moguls and special interest groups make a solution impossible. Destiny: activates _pretend Haz is being an extremist mode and ignores the point_
Land reform baby finally true equity is reciprocal, how can someone care about this country when they have no stake. Giving people land to move into states with sparse populations. I bet you could get a lot of people behind it. He’s right that it’s just another form of UBI
Alpha protect alpha friend by lie bout win. Real man friendship. We strong and we smart we alpha. Plus alpha would get emotional if I was truthful and I don’t want to hurt alpha friends feelings . Alphas stick together to smash betas
@@ATSaale you can’t have a gun everywhere and if it takes a weapon to hurt people because you are too small that’s a L on your part. Be a man and be real, you aren’t killing someone for losing a fight.
@@ATSaale No wonder you just larped so hard on the internet, you play league of legends. I can tell you are chill irl, probably haven’t punched in the jaw before. You aren’t Kyle Rittenhouse buddy🤣
Sometimes he argues with some regular guy on the right (e.g. the covid denier dad or the antivax girls), but on the left he only debates the crazies to avoid agreeing on everything. Much the same with Vaush or Dylan Burns.
it boils down to him being, self admittedly, more privileged and in a better situation than all the people he would want to animate to for third parties people with his position always answer the question of people suffering while gambling for a third party with "they suffer regardless" there is 0 shits given about the amount of suffering because they are not affected, this idealistic vision and larping about it is just more attractive the miniscule chance of getting power is higher on the list of priorities than people going out to vote now, to vote on things that would affect their lives in the current hes an ML tankie, there is 0 connection to current political reality and "the people" he is going on about 24/7 regardless, its just this abstract concept for him
16:00, I Like how he says we need a big tent 3rd party movement and then complains about factions in the established parties. That kind of contradicts doesn't it? You cannot have a broad coalition without there being factions within the party that have friction at points
yeah, good point. Its very strange that Destiny blunders equally as hard here. This guy lowkey WAS the shonen opponent because he exposed more than a few of Destiny's weaknesses here.
It wouldn't be close, Jimmy Dore viewers are actual human beings who live normal lives while DGG is filled with a bunch of League Of Legends sloths that never go outside.
because Dylan thinks its funny and cute, but no one gives a shit about his meme'ing, people want to see debates and bloodsports, and his attempt to write out scripts are obvious and eyeroll worthy.
Would not voting for democrats in favor of a third party fix these problems? Do you know of any third party candidates that talk about these specific issues you mention?
@@raulboliomartinez6432 cpusa talks to all sects of America’s working class, that local Californian haz talked on has extensive dialogue about it with all sects of America’s working class
Destiny tries to defend his Hippy Dippy Championship belt against Infrared...
Bonus content ►ruclips.net/channel/UCLOPC6bOBuiSBAJ16JXLAHg
The most infrared thing about this dude is his gain level
International fundraising for local candidates? Uhhhh....
Why is he wearing a kids tank top
I destroyed infrared on his Mongolian Supremacist take: ruclips.net/video/oJ4ZgioCUDw/видео.html
I would love to debate you, these hippy dippy debates are a joke. Green Energy is a nice easy one for you and ill pick you apart.
At this point I'm sure infrared was created in a lab after splicing Hassan and Zherka DNA...
With some sprinkles of Vaush.
@@ThinWhiteLuke 0 Vaush
@@ThinWhiteLuke Nah he's too cringe even for Vaush. He's got sprinkles of Thought Slime
@@aidanhearn4210 Thought Slime and Badempanada. I thought they were the same person for the longest time.
They used destiny too for the height genes
The fact that the first thing Jackson said was muffled beyond audibility sums everything up.
I'm 5 minutes in and hope this won't just be a cringe waste of time
@@kevlon_ it is but it does get less cringe once hinkles failed Sam Sedar bit
I destroyed infrared on his Mongolian Supremacist take: ruclips.net/video/oJ4ZgioCUDw/видео.html
Destiny got crowdered, laughs it off, and continues the debate 😎
id barely call it a crowdering considering how much more pathetic it was. Think what you will about Sam Seder, but he never flexed his mid-tier biceps and fucked the gain on his mic like a 5ht grader on xbox live.
Oh no this 5 iq guy, what a nightmare! Anyways
Sigma rule #1 - Don't be a Cowarder beyta
i wouldn't really say it is "getting crowdered" as it is "getting ethan klined" as he was the rat that threw same seeder at crowder to begin with.
@@777icekitsune Based move from Ethan, Crowder has a whole panel behind him and people prepping him up, so why not tag up with someone for a little help. Well, little is an understatement because Crowder and co. are terrified of Seder, but oh well, that's on them.
Damn I wonder how much work they put into having the other guy to show up. I'm sure they were expecting some epic Crowder like reaction. Instead no one cares and they had audio issues lol
😂😂😂😅😅😅😂😂😂
@Suiz thats even funnier lol.
@Suiz ngl, that's a fucking chad move. Hang out with girls and decide to debate instead.
@Suiz I can just imagine 2 commies fighting over the means of reproduction
@Suiz Adriana Lee’s room?
I love when someone spends like 400+ dollars on a mic they have no idea how to use
@Alan Laletin why would you just assume that?
@Alan Laletin funny how your name is alan, but... hang on, let me google what it means
@@aagh8714 XD
@Alan Laletin you are not the first to say that literal sentence to me verbatim, Alan.
Often I'm shy and intimidated about the idea of making a RUclips channel but seeing someone fumble using his microphone like this reminds me that I'll be just fine.
Got deja vu vibes when the 4th indistrial revolution was brought up but no one disccsued it. But the "pile of shit vs diarrhoea" analogy from Haz was certainly a power move
is the fourth industrial revolution supposed to be controversial or something ?
HAHA true that part had me weak
Hey man is your profile pic a reference to the Marathon series? I keep seeing you and I’m going to get an aneurysm if I don’t ask you lol
AUGUST DROPPING SO MUCH CONTENT Blesstiny
That surprise debate guy will probably think about this moment and cringe for the next 3 years lmao
That's based on the assumption that he has any self awareness.
He does not.
You'd be surprised how much cognitive dissonance goes on up there in Dinkle's head.
He feels nothing he's a secret ai created by assad.
@@moranii1843 cringe af lol
His recent video on my page is way more cringe.
I think it's great branding for Infrared to name himself after a wavelength so long that it escapes human notice. The only way he could've been more on the nose was if his name was "white noise".
"Y'know he worked in a submarine?"
"Uhhhh I've... eaten a lot of subs... from Subway..."
Oh yeah, that famous scene "Destiny Devouring His Subs"
1:25:15 - "i am sorry i interrupted your question with my answer" - jesus that one got me. Literally this debate in a nutshell
He uses lots of words, yet says nothing. The Time Vampire Strikes Again
Not even a haz fan, but if you unironically say "he uses words but says nothing" then you ironically use words but say nothing
@@carnivorous_vegan IRONICALLY UNIRONIC
@@Fakery lmao that clap back though... 👏👏👏
@@carnivorous_vegan but he did say something my man
I'm going to suck...
What? No, that's the end of the sentence.
I am 2 minutes in and can barely keep watching due to the amount of cringe, this will be quite something won't it
@@ATSaale isn’t Chinese infrastructure actually really good?
Yeah I would love to see an American politician campaigning on the platform that we should follow the Chinese example lmao
@@ATSaale using Jon as a judge shoes an incredible lack of sense on Dylan’s part
@@yoboiboy4182 Only in a few big showcase cities.
"We have Sam Seder at home" 1:14
This is for me 😂😂😂😂 1:28:44
Chat is just debating Pepe vs Yee the entire time
Yee wins
Yee poster are cringe Pepe always win
Don't know about you guys. But your Peepee is pretty small.
Yee wins.
Both equally relevant to national level elections.
That feeling when the captain of the football team starts reading Marx to impress a girl.
Infrared is the definition of frat boy that got into communism.
Haz is the perfect example of someone who isn't actively listening, he's just holding his breath till someone gives him an opening to steamroller them.
2 minutes in and the guy misses the opening question and then his mic goes out. Strap in lads
45:43 disgusting debate tactics
Dude he strait up copied Casino Royale. What a master debater
A tactic non of us can practice.
She is giving him the taste of her bull xD
Oh no Jackoff Tickle, what a mild inconvenience!
With the way Jackson Hinkle came in I was expecting a 2v1 but instead we got an intro nobody could hear due to his mic peaking. Even worse I don't think Destiny knew who he was so this just came across as awkward since he just walked off and let Infrared just come back and have the rest of the conversation lol
So fucking goofy
He has like a shure microphone and keeps it on dogshit levels like just use your webcam mic and get that shit out of your face
@@moranii1843 Can you substantiate that, or is it "source: trust me bro"?
@@karsten9387 💀average destiny fan
@@ScereMore so that there is a lot of misinformation and people doing their own "research".
If it's true, then the context and the humor behind the Haz-Hinkle swap is actually funny. If it's not true, it just seems like extreme fanboying from your side/being butthurt by destiny for some reason.
If you got a source but don't provide it, then it makes me believe that you know that your "source" is sketchy and you would rather keep it hidden.
Doesn't matter which one it is tbh, I'm just genuinely curious about the source, as it sounds sort of funny.
I love how Haz surprise switched him with this idiot as if he's not literally a copy paste version of him. It'd literally be the same debate.
Could see destiny calculating what to do when Dinkle sat down in the chair. But Dinkle was so cringe he correctly let it ride..
who the fuck was that guy?
@@vvvictoriav5958 he’s hanz’s little pet. Just think of him as a the more idiotic version Hanz.
@Micheal Graves How is that possible?
Jackson Hinkle, another tankie. He had two debates prior where all he would do is posture.
@@nikobates6897 annoying. It's annoying
See, THIS is how you timestamp a video!
I love time stamps, especially when the editor can give a little flair. Like one of D more recent videos said "CTV suddenly comes in with a metal chair" or something like that.
I unironically love infared. Hes got that "We are horde" mentality.
The boy says "So, to begin" and I already want to torch my speakers. It's a pity, because he's pretty great at expressing himself, but man, if only he could tone down the Neanderthal voice.
Thing is, Wow mao has a video where Haz does EXACTLY THAT
@@logoncal3001 yeyeye, the mongoloid rant, top tier content
Man's tried to pull a Sam Sedar and did not get the desired effect. Lol
Also I agree with Destiny on how it is unbelievably stupid for people to say it's the Democrats fault to not have this infrastructure bill passed when almost any time a progressive bill is brought out it is almost GUARANTEED 50 "No's" meaning we need 50 "Yes" votes and if ONE senator says no then it's fucked. We have the slimmest of slim majorities and this bill, while widely supported, is not exactly an easy one to pass.
Sam Sedar is way more intimidating than Hinkle.
@@Agora13 oh for sure this attempt was pathetic at best. Especially since the fucking gain on the mic was set to the setting of 6th Grader in a COD lobby
41:00 Meel r u OK? I think she saw the GODSTINY moment and couldn't contain herself.
I missed the chat because it was going to fast. What was said?
@@trivialcomment8354 look behind chat in the background lol
@@TurntReynolds Thanks!
Calling him an extremist is like calling you a degenerate because you indulge in polyamory.
Is it true? You can argue that. Is it accurate? Maybe. Is it loaded? Yes.
Absolute blind midwittery. You need to be better than that.
He called him extremists as a perpetual underdog than can keep winning brownie points for being the underdog without never actually competing, or risking anything.
marxist lenilist - not at all extremist. good one
also, your analogy doesnt really make much sense. are you trying to compare the moral loading of both situations? what do you suggest calling somebody with extreme opinions?
@@98danielray destiny said so right after calling him extremist when he clarified.
Again, he mentioned that it was not as an attack of his views, but his unwillingness to join discourse of how to improve the parties. Like, an underdog, who no one expects to win, who get praised regardless of his performance, but who never risk anything in a serious attempt to win.
like criticizing both parties outside the political arena, getting paid internet money for it while not doing anything useful like mutual aid or proping local third party politician in an effort to make them win.
I like how Steven doesn't care that haz is talking when it's not his turn towards the end. There's no substance so it doesn't matter
01:09:13 "If someone doesn't want to eat shit, you don't know what their favorite food is. They just don't want to eat the shit"
Ah, Yes. Thank you for that amazing analysis.
Kono dio da
Oh no Sam Seder what a fucking nightmare
3rd party? I wonder if he realized there were over 20 parties on the last presidential election ballot.
This talk was pretty bad with Infra being super hard to listen to and the sheer amount of grain in his mic, but the talk with FilthyRobot after made it all worth it
Man, CTV's a funny dude. I'm looking forward to his and Destiny's debate.
"it takes a great amount of intelligence to discover sinmple things is like an axiom of how computers work you use a lot of power to discover very little"
lmao, the politics ML guy discovered computer ML
he said complexity thats actually true, think about simple arithmetic operations in a computer.
This video is much, much sweeter knowing the infrastructure bill did pass.
When Sam Seder crashed the Stephen Crowder debate he flipped out and acted like Sam was some nobody clout chaser but in this instance the surprise debater IS a nobody clout chaser and neither Dylan or Destiny react to it.
I want to take a grandiose moment to thank Bonnell, Haz, and Hinkle for the debate presented here. Cheers lads. It didn't waste my time.
“What issues would be a good core issue for a third party?”
*Ryan Dawson has joined the call*
> Gets muted
> Keeps talking
kek
I discovered Hinkle several months ago and thought he was cool for a bit... But the more I watched of him, the more I realized he's incapable of having an actual conversation and has some REALLY shitty takes. He's essentially Infrared Lite.
The fact that he beat vaush speaks volumes
Watch the Hinkel v Vaush debate it will change your mind about him
@@lukullberg955
I did watch the Vaush debate and it was indeed gratifying. It doesn't, however, make up for the rest of Hinkle's dumbassery. His debate with Dylan Burns(whether right or wrong on the subject matter) was an embarrassment... Super small dick energy.
@@GuyMcDudeman When does hinkle, come in, I can't find it
@@persoro4015 Right as the debate begins, Infrared says to hang on and that someone is at his door...
Moments later Hinkle sits down and starts flexing like an idiot.
ruclips.net/video/2v_mf2EmUhM/видео.html
I have no idea how you missed it. Lol
The man the myth the legend
The manlett the myth the legend
Jon Homple
I’m 2 minutes in and I can’t believe this is real.
Haz coping and then leaving at the end defeated is pure gold lmao.
zherka voting for his fellow gym rate despite his terrible performance was also hilarious
Thinkers get frustrated talking to destiny because destiny just doesn’t think
@@antichrist2558 lmao, sure buddy
@@antichrist2558 if you have to think then you don't know, and haz don't know shit.
@@matsab7930Yeah, I love Zherka, literally the personification of chaotic neutral😂
Destiny and Speechless are two words I never thought I’d read in the same sentence but I’ll bite, August.
August should have included Billy the Fridge’s intro.
Is Infrared even a real person, or just an AI memeing?
he's as real as Zherka
I think he is actually real, he does look a lot like a human.
Hes someone who is so outside the average american life he can only think in concepts and ideology.
Infrared is a group. Haz was chosen to be the face of it.
@@timetobail why did they chose the most smashed beet to represent the bowl or borscht?
how can you have a debate with a guy that doesn't know how mic works, FFS
Is the host the guy who lost to BPF who said he was gay for sjw clout who now dates that black girl
Destiny has no integrity-early in the debate he says doesn't want point-to-point, because he will lose. Later in the debate, he wants point-to-point.
Lolnope
I think the best part was when Jackson said, “WE _____ democratic ___*^_*_* uh -___\|~\ 😃”
this is tiring. you are a patient man.
Riight in my feeeed
Holy shit, his "big tent third party" is literally the setup for Centricide. I'm laughing so damn hard.
Haz won on every substantive point. Destiny was just factually wrong on so many accounts. What was so baffling to me is how DGG expected Haz to write a novel on his fantasy America land in the debate. Do you expect Haz to describe all of the nature of the universe? If you're not being vague in a 1-hour debate, you're just full of shit. My impression was that Haz didn't have the intention to wade into the muck of "policy" wonkery & debating about hypotheticals about which utopia he would build. Haz isn't the one drafting the policies for third parties. That's not how policies are mentioned. And then, when he was pressed he literally did mention policies. He mentioned UBI and debt-forgiveness, but d.gg and Destiny just lie about it. Alas, typical d.gg tactics used to derail the debate and reframe it in Destiny's favor when he doesn't know shit on a topic.
That being said, on the history of third parties, Haz was factually right, and Destiny was wrong. When Destiny said that it was a contradiction to say you don't know what the people want, while saying you know what they don't want, Haz proved him to be logically wrong. Destiny never once responded to Haz's arguments about special interest groups. Destiny was also proven wrong when he said that the internet doesn't have a bearing on politics when Haz brought up the Justice democrats. Destiny was proven wrong when he said that Haz never helps local candidates when Haz mentioned supporting and interviewing Steven Estrada. Destiny lied about Haz not bringing up actual policies, since Haz brought up UBI and debt-forgiveness. Not to mention that Destiny was simultaneously saying that the internet doesn’t affect movements, and asking Haz to do more on the internet to help movements.
Destiny wants to debate about policy, but funnily enough, talking about policy is a massive cope because no one cares what policies you want. The democrats actively sabotage the chance at healthcare reform. Their promises for healthcare have no more substance than Trump's promises to fix Obamacare. The only way the moderate reforms that would benefit most Americans can get done is through opposing the two-party system. Even an unsuccessful third party is more likely to indirectly result in this, in that they influence the political narrative and what's on the table, forcing the two parties to pass more popular policies themselves to maintain power. The actual barrier to the policies the democrats pretend to believe in, are the Democrats themselves, as they are beholden to special interest groups who don't want to see these policies passed. Changing the party from within already failed. So why repeat the same failures over and over again?
Someone might say ”if someone tells you they will vote democrat because they hope they will live up to their platform of providing modern affordable healthcare or whatever, why should we instead convince them not to vote or to instead vote for a third party” Well, to that I would say that the democrats are a part of the reason why we have a crisis of healthcare, to begin with. In 2016, I was pro-Bernie, I was not against trying this method out, but historically it just has not worked and even the most progressive democrats get co-opted again and again. What you have to understand is that most of the people actively involved in politics are not the ones directly affected by it. The people who actually have the time to build a third party are not the same people just struggling to make it by. And if these people are actually serious about politics, they can either A. betray the people to the failed two-party system, or B. work on building a third party and forsake the democrats. There is no middle ground here. If you are in the latter camp, then in order to have a real political existence you have to be willing to risk the death of the democrats, or else you become indistinguishable from them. What you have to understand is that the people most ideologically defending the democrats and saying you have to vote for them, are people who, to begin with, are banking on healthcare reform to afford insulin.
dang bro, you really wrote 10 separate novels simping for infared on a destiny video. How does infareds children taste?
@@thelevelbeyondhuman you can hear him screaming everytime Destiny speaks
@@thelevelbeyondhuman Cope.
@@tarekhankir7727 are you a catperson? meow
1:43:05 "We're not on 8 Mile..."
It seems that it's all about style over substance for this guy. Word-limit-based grading systems haven't been good for this man.
“Big tent third party” is an oxymoron lol
Then he complained that the Democratic Party isn’t unified, then he complained that the Justice Dems are divisive, I’m a half hour in and this dude’s points are just incoherent.
CTV slapping the Neo glasses on.. my god
pointless debate
Zherka would vote for his low T brother in arms
@She belongs to the Skreets haz? Yeah. You can tell by the frigid IQ
Lmao Zherka doesnt like Haz anymore.
@@wojakc7745 doesn't matter. They're brothers in low self esteem
@@wojakc7745 but he still hates destiny more lol
low T?
The vocabulary that this dude decides to use is pretty strange. Can’t tell if he’s trying to appear more knowledgeable by doing this or if this is actually the way he talks
"I don't know what dialectical materialism is therefore the people don't and shouldn't either" was his attitude and the biggest COPE I've witnessed in a debate.
If you actually pay attention to the debate Destiny was beat on nearly every topic. Destiny failed to address nearly every argument Haz made, most importantly he never addressed the role that special interests groups play. And on many points he just logically lost, like claiming that in order to know what the people don't want you must know what they want. The idea that Bernie wasn't gatekept and that sharing info with Hillary wasn't gatekeeoing was just disingenious. The idea that Haz never supported local candidates, just demonstrably wrong stuff. The idea that online politics doesn't matter, was completely debunked once haz brought up the Justice democrats. He was historically wrong about how third parties emerge, but dismissed it because it's too many years ago. He dismissed land reform which Haz described in terms of modern ideas like UBI as outdated. Pretended that Haz never mentioned concrete ideas like UBI and debt-relief.
He said stuff that was just historically and factually wrong and when Haz points it out he says "oh, well that was a 100 years ago" LOL. Destiny's approach merely amounts to "don't question or think you're worthy of questioning the legitimacy & staying power of the status quo".
Let alone the theoretical level, even on just the bare minimum level of factuality Destiny was proven wrong several times. Destiny debates always end the same way... he reduces everything to "it's so complicated. you obviously don't understand the intricacies of parliamentary politics"
"But it was 200 years ago, special interests are so strong now it doesn't matter!" Way to admit you're powerless and deserve nothing. The irony is that it was Destiny who brought up the history of third parties lmao. He was just wrong on his own terms. "We can't get into special interests groups, that's a whole other topic" as if that's not the whole point.
Haz also had a great introduction on the emergence of the Republican Party as a result of the crumbling Whigs, who much like todays Dems, dragged their feet on popular policy. The third party will exist in the form of interest until it becomes concrete from the implosion of the other. The historical parallels shouldn't be ignored.
Damn, how much did you lose on this debate? You seem pretty heated. You'll win it back in another bet ok bud?
I think it's important to remember that the motion up for debate is whether or not one should, at present, vote for the Democrats or a third party. The answer is to me pretty obviously to vote Democrat. I encourage you to watch CPG Grey's video about election systems to flesh out the logic better but basically, third parties are more native to parliamentary systems, which we do not have in the U.S. We live under "first-past-the-post" and so while yes, as you and Haz pointed out, there have been times in American history with more than 2 viable parties present, things have in modern times coalesced to the point where there's scarcely a single solution to an issue that can't find a home in one of either party. Destiny was specifically looking for such solutions but UBI and debt-relief that Haz brought up are already being incorporated into the Democratic platform. Things like land reform and dialectical materialism would likely need a third party to push forward but again, the topic of debate revolved around what should voters pick right now, thus currently, voting outside the Democratic party is basically another Ross Perot scenario, i.e. effectively voting for Republicans.
I do want to give you credit here. I think overall Destiny treated Haz poorly here for no clear reason and was overly dismissive of the points brought up. I would argue, contrary to Destiny's opinion that Haz should have been given more leeway in speaking time considering that he had the harder task of constructing a novel position, while being steered around with incessant attacks. Like you mentioned, the gate-keeping of Bernie from the Democratic primary was completely glossed over and Haz really couldn't get a word in edgewise to what otherwise could have been an entire debate topic on its own. Also, attacking Haz for talking online instead of going door-to-door or something was totally unfair. Truth is we could all be doing more out in the world. That really has no bearing on whether or not there are better systems to advocate for. So, yeah. I suppose Destiny was trying to win by the narrowest margins possible but still, I'm gonna keep voting Democrat. I think you as well went to the point that: there won't really be a third party in the future, there'll have to be a faction within one of the parties that overthrows the establishment, so still 2 but maybe remade versions.
imagine using an SM7B one of the best and cleanest sounding dynamic mic and just JACKING THE FUCKING GAIN MAKING IT SOUND LIKE YOU'RE DEEPTHROATING A CELL PHONE MICROPHONE FUCK ME
Not his place or his mic, cope
@@allesgoenner did i specifically say this was haz's fault?? i'm sorry i should have been more clear bc apparently people have no fucking idea how to read. idgaf if it was haz's mic or not. it sounds like shit.
@@mal1cious_ getting way too angry about it lmao
Was that other guys intro supposed to be funny or something he said democrats are causing us to not have healthcare and not have free public tuition? Never heard someone say we should have “free public tuition” lmaooo
I advocate for 3rd party bcuz democrats are not united enough... I wanna 3rd party with a wide umbrella to appeal to everyone.
How is this guy serious...
Thinking out loud his wishful fantasy land. And he thinks streamers and youtubers could levarage their audiences for a competing 3rd party in a massive coutry like the USA. That could've been more realistic in a country where there isn't a dominant two party system.
Infrared is pretty smart tbh.
Destiny has unironically had more intelligent political discussions with xQc than this fuckin guy
this Infrared guy just cant wait his turn lol.. so obnoxious
I love CTV 😂 he is something else
*When a gym bro reads the Communist Manifesto the previous day.
Destiny: ITS JSUT SO COMPLEX NO ONE KNOWS HOW TO SOLVE IT
Haz: But the complexities aren't the reason the problem isn't solved, companies like Blackrock, and real-estate moguls and special interest groups make a solution impossible.
Destiny: activates _pretend Haz is being an extremist mode and ignores the point_
Haz proves Destiny wrong
Destiny: OMG UR JUST LIKE VAUSH
Land reform baby finally true equity is reciprocal, how can someone care about this country when they have no stake. Giving people land to move into states with sparse populations. I bet you could get a lot of people behind it. He’s right that it’s just another form of UBI
30 seconds in and this is already a top meme
57:33 Jesus Christ lol
Alpha protect alpha friend by lie bout win. Real man friendship. We strong and we smart we alpha. Plus alpha would get emotional if I was truthful and I don’t want to hurt alpha friends feelings . Alphas stick together to smash betas
Zherka and Haz are not friends, it was pretty quite but they kinda split a week ago
in real life those “alphas” would destroy destiny. Have you discord randoms ever been in a physical altercation.
@@wydmark What is your point random human behind a computer screen about someone who is also behind a computer screen?
@@ATSaale you can’t have a gun everywhere and if it takes a weapon to hurt people because you are too small that’s a L on your part. Be a man and be real, you aren’t killing someone for losing a fight.
@@ATSaale No wonder you just larped so hard on the internet, you play league of legends. I can tell you are chill irl, probably haven’t punched in the jaw before. You aren’t Kyle Rittenhouse buddy🤣
I was fortunate to meet Destiny in Atlanta Georgia last year and I gotta say he's a lot more influential and perfected his craft
ATL gang gang
You know we're starved for content when we're literally sitting here debating third parties...
That's what I was thinking. So boring
Is this left-wing Jon Zherka? Regular Zherka is less insane.
Right in my feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed
Marxism-Leninism and vibez
Does destiny ever talk with like normal people lol I've watched like 3 of these "debates" and some of the weirdest people.
Sometimes he argues with some regular guy on the right (e.g. the covid denier dad or the antivax girls), but on the left he only debates the crazies to avoid agreeing on everything. Much the same with Vaush or Dylan Burns.
it boils down to him being, self admittedly, more privileged and in a better situation than all the people he would want to animate to for third parties
people with his position always answer the question of people suffering while gambling for a third party with "they suffer regardless"
there is 0 shits given about the amount of suffering because they are not affected, this idealistic vision and larping about it is just more attractive
the miniscule chance of getting power is higher on the list of priorities than people going out to vote now, to vote on things that would affect their lives in the current
hes an ML tankie, there is 0 connection to current political reality and "the people" he is going on about 24/7 regardless, its just this abstract concept for him
Democrats make peoples lives worse not better.
I love the MCU-esque post-credit scene teasing a sequel with CTV
God haz is so cute...
16:00, I Like how he says we need a big tent 3rd party movement and then complains about factions in the established parties. That kind of contradicts doesn't it? You cannot have a broad coalition without there being factions within the party that have friction at points
yeah, good point. Its very strange that Destiny blunders equally as hard here. This guy lowkey WAS the shonen opponent because he exposed more than a few of Destiny's weaknesses here.
18:35 PEPE WON
I would love a Deathmatch battle between Destiny fans v. Dore and his disciples fans!
Only if real death.
@@moranii1843 Lots of basic logic followed by screaming Dore fans insulting and virtue signaling in a way that would never help anyone.
It wouldn't be close, Jimmy Dore viewers are actual human beings who live normal lives while DGG is filled with a bunch of League Of Legends sloths that never go outside.
if ReviewBrah = Squirtle, Wartortle = Dylan Burns
I don’t like Dylan burns anymore. Ever since the prime stuff I can’t look at him the same way anymore.
Cool
He apologized, he’s young. I think he made a genuine mistake and should be forgiven
His entire argument hinges on "It has happened before, it could happen again."
Yea there’s a term for that, it’s called prescience and our judicial system is based on it.
I can't believe that Destiny lost this debate to CTV...
... yikes I forgot how cringe this was
Why is Zherka even a judge for this lol
because Dylan thinks its funny and cute, but no one gives a shit about his meme'ing, people want to see debates and bloodsports, and his attempt to write out scripts are obvious and eyeroll worthy.
Destiny says “the system does work” as if we don’t have national guards becoming bus drivers or a supply chain issue. LMAO what a cope
Would not voting for democrats in favor of a third party fix these problems? Do you know of any third party candidates that talk about these specific issues you mention?
@@raulboliomartinez6432 did voting for the dems stop this lol yes it would take away power for the superstructure
@@raulboliomartinez6432 cpusa talks to all sects of America’s working class, that local Californian haz talked on has extensive dialogue about it with all sects of America’s working class
@@raulboliomartinez6432 it’s not just about the individual candidate yet the model/polity of the system in the party
Sorry your bodega was out of cool ranch doritos for a week
Of course hes speechless, cause hes BEEEYTA!
The metanarativation levels of this debate were off the charts.
Jesus Christ. Homeboy set gain to kill. Has none of his viewers told him to fix his mic. Takes all of 10 seconds
I'm just here for ctv