Who are your sources you're basing your arguments on, are they same people who fabricated all of the Russia, Kavanaugh, Ukraine, RIttenhouse, Jan. 6th propaganda?
He's a lefty how so? I'm pretty for far left and I know this war harms everyone. Not a huge fan Ukrainian government either, but Putin is a traitor and an asshole.
"I don't trust any source" The hardcore skeptic is usually the easiest person to brainwash, because all it takes to convince them is something that's the opposite of what they've heard.
That's the secret to being an actual skeptic. You listen to both sides, and then decide. Now you've heard everything, and the "opposite" is no longer a thing.
@@Imbalanxd it doesn't help that the entire skeptic era of youtube was confirmation bias driving incredulity, and pretending that was skepticism. ruined the brains of an entire chunk of people that internalized that shit.
I always was wondering who would listen to Haz and be like: "yeah, Haz has good points" I could never understand how anybody would believe that. And even after 30 min into this video, I still can't really believe this is real life....
Is Haz the short dude that makes lots of short jokes? That guy is insufferable. I wouldn’t trust him for advice on my gym routine, much less international politics
"I'm not a tankie. I'm not a communist. I'm not tankie. I'm a capitalist. I'm a capitalist!" Man, the amount of times this guys says it, the less I believe it.
2 года назад+15
I'd ask him what the factory he owns produces, since he is a capitalist I mean.
@@GottHoldNicetomeet "Tankie" is a pejorative label for communists, particularly Stalinists, who support the authoritarian tendencies of Marxism-Leninism.
This guy cannot be real. Imagine having parents from two separate parts of the worlds and yet somehow still coming out inbred. This must be a dream or a bad trip.
@@michaelh878 no matter what language youre using if you blame an invaded country for the deaths caused by said invasion youre inbred. Edit - do you think if a lamguage is the 3rd or 4th you learnt that means you cant communicate as clearly as you would with your 2nd language?
@@michaelh878 English is my fourth language. I can tell you right now that I do not sound like a moron when I speak English. Just because it is not my mother tongue doesn't make my IQ instantly drop when I switch to English.
Based on HazFan's accent, this guy is definitely Finnish, not Nigerian. And for a Finnish guy to defend Russia's actions, when Finland could be next, is pretty weird.
So he's ok to dissolve the borders of a country because some people in a region wish to join another country but if the majority of the population wants to oust their undemocratic leader then that's not ok 🤷
Reality exists only to serve the purposes of the totalitarian. It can be manipulated at will to produce the desired outcome. There is no underlying value system other than getting what they want. Every conspiracy is evidence of the willingness to fabricate reality to justify doing whatever the hell they want. Every supposed justification is a manipulation to convince other people to let them do what they want.
The U.S literally did this with Kosovo and supporting those separatists and then bombed the fuck out of Serbia for not accepting the results of the referendum and trying to take their land back. Russia is doing the same playbook with the Donbass separatists.
@@Stevewilldoit96 I was living in Romania 1 hour from the Yugoslavian border at the time, I didn't see a huge US army invasion force enter, surround, and level entire Yugoslavian cities to the ground? Maybe I slept in late that day and missed it 🙂
@@Stevewilldoit96 Did you forget about the persecution and ethnic cleansing of Albanians by the Serbs that actually started all of it, or did you just pretend like that part didn't happen?
haz Stan: mocks destiny's voice, calls him a mong, "the drugs are rotting your brain" destiny: laughs at him haz Stan: you're doing the ad hominem, its offensive btw all this in less than 2 minutes lmaooo
haz Stan: "Shut the fuck up!" Destiny: _Quietly starts up Elden Ring._ You can just see the moment in his face where he decides that this kid isn't worth the full extent of his attention after all.
@@TheHadMatters yeah could have been. There was just one point where I thought he was about to say mong but then I heard the key part. But I kind of went in and out of listening to the guy speak. It was painful
Him saying "Eastern Ukrainians want to be part of Russia" almost seems invalid while looking at the war going on. They are fighting Russia tooth and nail.
Also saying you can slice off a country because "ethnic" people of my country live there so it's now mine, wouldn't Mexico have a right to slice off Texas and Cali?
Well the defence forces are fighting Russia. After all, the majority of Ukraines forces are in the east. It stands to reason that the hardcore nationalists would make up the majority of Ukraine's national army.
I assume when he says East he means the rebels in Donbas which would be kinda true as they were always Russian aligned but it ignores the sovereignty of Ukraine... but not Russia. Ukraine isnt some lesser partner, its a country in its own right
The fundamental issue with this guy's argument is that he has mistaken russian-speakers with pro-russians. Most russian-speaking ukrainians (like Zelensky himself) are not pro-Russia.
Half Nigerian-Half Finnish and all sorts of wrong apparently. I wish people would learn a bit more about history opening their mouths and giving Russia the benefit of the doubt that they are in Ukraine to save anything else other than Putin's delusions.
I mean the guy did say he’s for white and Nigerians to start a proxy state in South Africa, if have to assume this would be his justification for the Russian invasion of Ukraine. So yea his race has a bit to do with it IMO
Plus, this idiot seems to use the same mic gain tactic like Haz. It hurts the ears. It's frustrating that tolerable debates are apparently only possible with the likes of Nick Fuentes or even Nazbols.
The dude struggles to stay on one topic and keeps getting mad at an argument hes having with himself in his head, how many times can you apologize for flying off the handle for being so stupid you got angry at something you've 'argued with a different person'
the fact is ukrain killed 15k people in donbass and have no right acting like they are innocent they aren´t same for us we have started more wars then russia and if we are talking about Ameirca they abuse other countries with their power for example china
Support Russia in what way exactly? I don't think those people think Russian government is good or should've invaded or that Putin is good. That's a small minority tbf. But them presenting the other side of the story that sheds light on the Russian concerns and worries, and how the west could've approach this differently had Ukraine been more realistic. I think this second type of people don't support Russia, just being honest about the situation. On the other hand what you got? Destiny types? That don't actually offer solutions and solid arguments other than the futile Russia bad NATO good. Nonsense. The problem is most of those people, including destiny, don't know the fundamentals of the conflict and just emotionally arguing with their fellow numbnuts. Like for 8 years war in Donbas was raging thousands killed due to shelling, how many vids did destiny make on that? It's just keeping up with what's entertaining.
This guy just feels like a troll, very funny that every time he tried to pull destiny into a nonsense discussion destiny just slammed down facts and he pivoted to more nonsense.
@@mitko1123 I honestly think Destiny could have cut this conversation in half. Multiple times the guy basically laid out that he was working from a totally different world view and Destiny kept the conversation going rather than address that. For instance the guy admits he thinks that the russians in ukraine should have been allowed to vote themselves out. Destiny begins to show why this is unfeasible as a worldview but didn't follow through as strongly as he could. I think Destiny would rather keep the conversation going rather than draw lines in the sand and make his opponent address it or just admit the conversation can't move forward though.
@@PlasticSiding the fact is he ignored the reason for them wanting to vote out when you start a coup in a country other parts of it have full right to vote out of it also the fact you kill people for that is worse then what russia is doing
@@drama8335 There is no rulebook for how coups work, you trying to act like somehow ukraine is acting in a way that justifies any outside involvement is laughable. If we were to try to construct a framework for rules concerning a coup it would likely work as follows: a coup doesn't create the ability for states to declare sovereignty via a vote. A coup is literally a mechanism by which political will is enacted via violence. If those states wished to declare themselves independent because of the coup, they would need to do so via violence. If they cannot do so via violence they do not have the right of sovereignty.
@@PlasticSiding coups are never ok that´s a act of treason and killing 15k people for over 8 years is exectly why i call this karma did any of the countries we invade deserve it how about iraq sirbia syria afghanistan no and it´s not just ukraine the problem is mostly NATO russia should have done this no matter what they had to show NATO who is a agressor and has started many wars that they stop now NATO said fuck russia and ukraine you really think what NATO is doing is helping no it´s causing mass casualties who were not needed not only that zelensky was voted presitent cause he promies to stand by the minsk agreement the fact your trying to say a coup is ok is insane and the sniper attack has everything pointing towards it being done by Azov which was supported by America
It's important to realize that Russian citizens do not view the "ethnic Russians" of the Donbas region as Russians. They view them as Ukrainians - and they do not view them favorably and most certainly do not want them emmigrating to Russia. It's the dumbest argument concerning the Donbas region. it's also important to point out that 35% of the population in those territories are NOT ethnic Russians. I guess... fuck them? They just get to be Russian now with no consideration to their wants? I don't think the Tatars of Crimea were stoked on the Russian invasion because they boycotted the so called "referendum" and routinely experienced oppression by the russian occupiers currently and during the USSR.
I used to be a russian speaking Ukrainian before the full-scale invasion in 2022. I've been speaking russian EVERYWHERE, and there hasn't been a single time when I (or anyone of my familiars) was somehow discriminated. I was a free person in a free country. This "language issue" was incredibly exaggerated. Now I switched to Ukrainian voluntarily, and I'm encouraging every Ukrainian to do so (without any pressure, of course).
Here in mariupol guys that seemed to be police, but without badge, were roaming our streets in 2017 checking if we can speak ukrainian. I was 11 at the time and it was summer time so I mostly stayed at home, but my father told me how they would beat up, threaten, "scold" russian speakers. My dad, hopefully, knew a bit of ukrainian and the questions weren't hard, they were just making them so that russian speakers wouldn't understand them very well. It's good we left Ukraine tho
@@manidk2719 Yeah, because they all dead or escape. But before invasion like 99% was speaking Russian and nobody have problem with it. So you story is bs, just ask your farther why he believed in this shit.
With Hazfan's logic, I should be able to move to Russia and declare that part to be part of Finland. If Russian's try to stop me, it would count as a genocide. Or British people should be able to legally declare India to be a part of UK.
See what i dont get is how Albanians did this in Kosovo,yet nato didnt do anything,actually they did,they bombed us,but when it happens to Ukraine (a country they have interests in) now its not ok.Im not defending Russia but ill never defend Nato either,the notion that Nato spreads "peace and prosperity" is just bullshit.
@@kimaon3598 I know basically nothing about that conflict. However thus far NATO hasn't taken any part in Putin's war against Ukraine and I honestly think it doesn't have much to do with Putin's motives either.
If you lived there for decades and the new Junta government started discriminating against you then yeah you should be able to secede The U.S state department supported this exact same thing with Kosovo.
It's always funny because if this is how things should go then immigration is the SCARIEST thing for a country to do. If you argue that you can get enough people into a country, set roots down, then fight to change that area to be part of your old home then no country should EVER want to immigrate more than a small number of people. No country would EVER want to take on refugees. It sounds like any anti-immigration person's wet dream.
@@Stevewilldoit96 I assume you are saying that Russians in Ukraine were discriminated in such a way that it would justify secession? I'd like to know what this treatment was. Nothing has really come up in these debates and all I can find is Ukrainian government nullifying a law securing the status of Russian language. It seems they did it in a really scummy way, but I don't think that justifies secession alone.
As a mixed guy myself we do not claim this guy, but it's funny how he claims Nigerian and not mixed or Finnish even tho he is from Finland, almost like he is trying to abuse it.
Him playing the nigerian card was incredibly cynical idpol. He was 100% doing it just because Destiny's american. The kinds of racial dynamics that language is usually invoked in relation to simply don't exist here in Finland. I'd be surprised if they guy had even been to Nigeria.
Tuomas Vanne That's because Finland is like 90%+ white, of course you guys are weird about people of colour. Don't pretend like Finns are some racially enlightened group who don't see colour. Lol bullshit. Most Scandinavians are just too polite to vocalise their opinions. Anglo countries are the most racially enlightened because we're the most mixed. Most of us are surrounded by non-white people. I bet in Finland, most school classrooms are white with one or two non-white kids. Don't play that "we don't see colour" line. It's nonsense. Everyone sees colour. Everyone's racial or ethnic identity is important to them. We don't live in some la la land where it's possible for all groups of people to get along. And if Finns don't see colour, that's only because they haven't been exposed to the worst aspects of multiculturalism. "Idpol" What is it with people abusing the fuck out of this term? You do realise that every "rights" movement is "identity politics". Gay rights? Identity politics. Civil rights? Women's rights? Identity politics. Identity politics exist because there are groups that have historically been oppressed by the ruling classes. Again, what la la land do you live in where people's identities shouldn't matter?
@@roseg2239 Nice try bucko, but don't put words in my mouth. Nothing I said was incorrect or saying Finland is some racism-free paradise. We just don't have the same kind of history with race compared to America: No 400 years of slavery, no MLK counterpart, no gerrymandering, no generational wealth built on slave trade, no civil rights movement, no civil war over the right to own people. None of this means that Finland doesn't see colour, of course we fucking have problems with racism here. They just don't go nearly as far back or as deep as they do in the US. Me saying that idpol is being used cynically does not equate to me invalidating idpol entirely. It has its place. But debates about subjects like this are not that.
@@bartholen The civil war was just a civil war the slavery thing came up so Europe couldn’t interfere. No your history was just being dominated under other powers especially the Russians.
@@bean-pod me neither. It must be like a brain breaker for her, because it’s the most blatant case of right to self determination of the past decade, but both parts are white and she’s associated with the tankie wokescold space, which is widely pro Russia, so I have no idea how she deals with it
I can't believe mans went with the "Just surrender 4Head" take. Yeah, just give up your country lmao you don't need it. Absolutely braindead. I would say he's the most impressive troll ever, but the drugs insult and league dig at the end shows he's was 100% serious throughout the conversation.
It's like hearing that there is a man in his home who every night has to fight off a group of homeless people trying to claim it as their home and then walking up and being like "bro just give them your home"
@@ProperlyGaming I mean clearly that's the only logical thing to do. When someone bullies you, attacks you, tries to steal your stuff or impedes your autonomy; you clearly have to just give in to their demands. This is literally the "let the rioters destroy your businesses" argument wrapped up in another shell.
the fact you can´t even understand why this is happening is sad has nothing to do with taking over ukraine they only said Cream is russiand donbass will be left alone and ukraine will stop killing people their that´s the demands and don´t join NATO learn to use your head instead of letting others do it for you
@@drama8335 Firstly, I don't give a shit why they invaded. Second, there's something called pride. Try having some and maybe you'll see why everyone is on Ukraine's side. And lastly, please learn to use punctuation. My eyes burn trying to read your run on sentences lmao
And 90% of those deaths happened in 2014 - 2016. Strange to use that pretext when hostilities have reduced so drastically, especially during Zelensky's presidency.
3:30 Person Destiny is talking to: The people in eastern Ukraine are primarily of Russian ethnicity. Therefore, Those regions should be allowed to join Russia. Putting aside how you don’t actually believe this, what you are telling me is that you support ethnostates…
While what he said is super weird, there is a clear difference here. If a country is like yo, when you do this thing you make me nervous. I'm way bigger than you, don't do it anymore. That sucks, but thats geopolitics. The US does it to basically everyone. What I as an aspiring president would do is take the L and negotiate. Instead Ukraine directly threatened Russia. Thats big dumb. Nazi Germany wanted the land. There was no diplomacy to be had in that situation. The only negotiations were "either you let us do violence to you, or we will do violence to you".
@@Fubasta a month before russian forces started massing at the borders he announced Ukraine would begin processes to reclaim crimea, through force if necessary
Don't know why Destiny, Dylan or Vaush just ask the simple question in these debates: why has invading a country to combat extremism been successful? Maybe Germany and Japan, but that was a defensive war and Afghanistan was invaded twice for this reason and that didn't turn out well
Imagine being aware of the 60 kilometre long military convoy headed to Kyiv that is still failing to encircle the city and has lost some ground to counterattacks, and then drawing the conclusion that Ukraine doesn't have a "real fighting force left" just because the Ukrainians didn't blow it to smithereens. The power disparity obviously isn't the same as that between the US and Iraq when highway of death happened, not to mention the fact that Ukraine didn't properly prepare for an axis of attack from Belarus because of how unlikely that seemed.
Im just waiting here for when Putin Calls his army to ran/advance back into Russia victoriously because he showed the Evil Ukraine that there will be reactions from Russia if they ever genocides again, and when asked about him not reaching any of his proclaimed military objectives, he will claim that human and more importantly Russian lives are way more important than any military objectives, because Putin just cares too damn much about well being of other people, that soft heart of his must be his only weakness
@@tcritt Im not sure what you expect its been six months i dont recall the specifics of this topic but Russia getting counter offensived and losing is pretty bad.
@@0doublezero0 I don't think it's that Destiny is super intelligent or particularly good at multi-tasking, it's that once he realized he wouldn't need more than half his brain to carry on this conversation he felt comfortable splitting his attention. You notice he isn't playing elden ring at first.
@@0doublezero0 Yeah I wasn't trying to say Destiny is dumb, just that I don't think his ability to play while talking comes from his intelligence, but from the lack of intelligence from his opponent.
I don’t really understand it. When I play video games while trying to hold a conversation, I end up mindlessly running around in circles on the game. Lol
I love in the beginning when Destiny brings up the point about would it be ok if Mexico tried to reclaim areas of the southwestern US that have large Hispanic populations his response was “I don’t want to talk about America!” But then midway through the debate, the minute he thought he can use it for his argument, he then brought up America. Haz has really grifted some of these rubes into his BS.
16:40 Yeah the eastern Ukrainians might have wanted to keep closer ties to Russia, but they didn't want to BE russia. because they can see the difference in standard of living across the border, and ain't nobody voting for poverty when the options are poverty or not poverty.
The gdp per capita of Russia has been 3-4 times that of Ukraine for the last 15 years. According to the Gallup's survey performed on April 21-27 2014, 82.8% of Crimean people consider the referendum results reflecting most Crimeans' views, and 73.9% of Crimeans say Crimea's becoming part of Russia will make life better for themselves and their families, while 5.5% disagree. According to survey carried out by Pew Research Center in April 2014, the majority of Crimean residents say the referendum was free and fair (91%) and that the government in Kyiv ought to recognize the results of the vote (88%)
@@michaelh878 Wonder how they feel now, in 2022 when both sides are eating breadcrumbs because Putin decided to throw a temper tantrum that his empire wasn't materializing fast enough. I also wonder what the mindset would be if all the native Crimean Tatars were still around with claims to the land, rather than the diminished amount that returned in 1989 and Russian passports hadn't been tossed into Crimea by the handful.
@@michaelh878 Which is why it is internationally recognized by every country, right? Riiiiiiiiight? And you are showing your ass when you quote per capita economic data. The per capita economic data for America for example doesn't reflect the vast majority of people's actual experience trying to live, work, pay rent, and not starve. Its even worse for Russia where the wealth disparity is one of the worst in the world.
@@michaelh878 Not to mention this talking point has been stated over and over. The results were taken AFTER the invasion, and produced by the RUSSIAN government. It seems insane to take those %'s as accurate numbers. and just like JustBinia said, that is the exact reason the results aren't accepted internationally. There is far too high possibility of the data being skewed or falsified.
Alright, well. 32 minutes in he apparently says it, so I don't have to eat my hat. Just a random thought, but the debate got me thinking; could some parts of Finland be able to decide to join Sweden with HazFans logic? Like Åland or majority Swedish speaking areas in western Finland?
@@Fubasta Well, the issue of Åland/ahvenanmaa comes up once in a while, they all speak Swedish, and could easily be made into this kinda situation. Quite a few of them would like to be Swedish as well. I'm not knowledgable about current intrests there in "joining" sweden, but its a talk that happens once in while. Also, lots of Finlands shoreline is peppered with Swedish speaking Finns. I'm also one quarter Swedish. Obviously Sweden could just say Finland are full of Nat.socs and we're genociding Ålanders(after like someone dies of a carcrash, but it was like Finnish agents). Then Sweden could move in, and claim to protect Swedish heritage or smth. Its a totally braindead logic, and this guy I dunno what he's smoking. He even pulled out the "is it because I'm black" to one of destinys arguments that werent even directed at him, which makes me think this guy is probably REALLY deep into social reject territory, or he's got some really odd friends. Its possible being mixed race to feel like an outsider, very dependent on his surroundings, and that could probably push you to look into "other" media, to find some explanations there. If you dont trust the media, if its too "white", then ofc its easy to think everything the media says is wrong, and thus end up with these conclusions. His final thoughts on not understanding why the convoys arent attacked, also showed how clueless he is about military stuff, so he probably didnt go to the conscription service in finland, rather took the loser-route of civilservice, sitting in alibrary. Othervise, its not much tactics required to figure, and the news has also pointed this out, that attacking convoys that are without fuel, food etc, is pointless, as you can hyperfocus on active elements, and let the ones that are stuck, be stuck. Priority targets... But yeah. He was all arrogance, no sense. Sorry for the wall of text. But its frigging annoying when a countryman is shitting on your national image.
@@muninnsays9296 Good for you mate. I was more thinking about those groups generally. Like when You see Le Pen in France, Farage in UK, the Polish and Hungarian goverments and any other personas that you can hear in international media (Not to say they are ultra nationalist but they are 'mainstream' nationalists). Can I ask You how this works out for You. Like who are You voting for in Germany or what is your position on imigration in the EU. Wouldn't You be more accurate saying you are a patriot? I'm asking because when people say ultra nationalists, they generally imagine neo nazis, homophobia, transfobia, islamofobia and anti imigration policies
@@maciejpietrek3131 most European parties have the same policy on immigration. The ones that don't are the ones you listed and a few independents, (As well voted into EU parliament) Over here nationalism is good, exactly what "Patriotism" is in the US. Although, when it's added with the whole "All these foreigners taking our job" types and "The gay". It's very cringe. I wouldn't consider myself as EU nationalist. That makes no sense. The EU isn't a nation (And the idea of a United States of Europe is disgusting and should be looked down upon) IMO First, my own nation Second, European. The economy and Peace is what makes the EU worth while. Very confusing Organization, but way better than none. Or war...
@@Lala-kc2fw Yep, I agree 100%. So it's just the difference of definitions. To me it's very annoying when some say nationalism is basicly patriotism and other append all those atributes You mentioned. There are always those semantic discussions of what means what. I live in Poland and I mostly use it in the latter meaning, although I think I'm in the minority here. It was just presented to me like that when I still was in school and it stuck with me - as said by Macron: “Patriotism is the exact opposite of nationalism: nationalism is a betrayal of patriotism”.
13:47 "Couldn't they have theoretically brought back Yanukovych if that was the will of the people?" Indeed, they could have. That's pretty much what happened 5 years after the Orange Revolution.
I feel like most other russia supporters usually realize that if theyre gonna complain about the Azov Battalion, they have to mask their ethno-nationalism when they talk about Donbas, but this guy just went all in, even made fun of Destiny for thinking that ethno-nationalism is not acceptable anymore
When we try to assess how well a democracy is representing the will of the people you have to necessarily look forward from an event. In this case the revolution in Ukraine lead to a string of free elections, formation of new parties and previous leadership stepping down upon losing elections without issue. These are markers of a political system that is healthier after the revolution. You can't just sit there and reiterate the same shit about how "it's a coup, it's illegal, it's illegitemate" for a decade afterwards. That is myopic.
"I don't trust any of the sources, I just trust the combat footage that I see." Okay and what is the combat footage saying? Literally nothing because its all contextless clips.
The thing that pisses me off the most when Destiny goes up against these dense mofos is that they continually think they think they're winning the argument and out of frustration Destiny just gives up, rolls his eyes, nods, and just says get fucked and effectively checks out. I admire destiny for lasting 1000x longer than I would in these situations... but fight the good fight and hang around till they shit themselves and give up. Don't cede ground, throw your hands in the air and just give up.
@@derpmanTV Oh absolutely. But I get pissed when I listen to a 2 hour video and waiting for that Destiny knock out blow only for him to throw his hands up and just skip out because he knows the guy he's talking too is too dense to even understand he's being ridiculed lol. Feels like a let down lol.
Also, as for the supposed "civil war" thing that Destiny seems to believe in as well. The russian ex-FSB colonel (there can be no "ex-FSB colonel", but whatever) Girkin and his group captured a bunch of cities back in 2014. Some of these cities though were liberated by Ukrainian Army later in the same year. And suddenly, the war ended in those cities. People just continued living peacefully, no civil war, no nothing. So how's that possible if Ukrainian Army made a "genocide of russian-speaking people"?
6:49 to 7:28 is very revealing about the man Destiny is debating when it comes to this issue. A person truly comfortable in their beliefs and thought processes wouldn't get so defensive when someone offers to present counter evidence.
18:25 Ukraine existed in various times in the past, just like Poland... When the Nazis invaded Poland then depending on how you look at it Poland existed for even less time than Ukraine has (only like 20 years because the First World War led to it being a country again)... But of course, Poland also has history as a country in like the Middle Ages and stuff... So it's not really a new country it's just a country that keeps getting destroyed (by countries like Russia) and then brought back... It's a bit different between Poland and Ukraine admittedly, but still...
@@ackermanlol I looked it up and apparently there is written evidence of the Ukrainian language from the late 16th century... So who was writing things down in the Ukrainian language if not Ukrainians?
As a Finn this guy sounds nuts. I guess he forgot that Finland became independent from Russia so is he wanting to Finland become part of Russia as well? And we didn't even wage war for our independence we just waited until the leadership was ripe for it. Sure we had to defend our independence afterwards because of the next leader who saw it as a mistake by then we already had claimed our independence. East Ukraine could had followed similar steps if he claims that people in the East Ukraine didn't want to be part of it. Just pressure Ukraine politically and eventually they would figure it easier to let them claim independence and get annexed to Russia if they wish so. I have my doubts though that the people in East Ukraine wished for this but that is how I would see it done if that was the case.
Wat, Finland was let free after WWI, the Bolsheviks viewed the Baltics, Poland and Belarus as more important which is why they went to war with them and not Finland.
Everyday Russia does shit like this makes me wish we took Patton's course and marched to Moscow from Berlin to end this screaming child of country once and for all
The argument that Russia is right the "defend" Ukranian Russians because they're being attacked is completely bonkers when you consider the only reason they're being attacked is that Russia started a war there. If Russia pulled out of Donbass, the civilians there wouldn't need defending, because there wouldn't be a war.
Afaik, in Ukraine, the friendly position towards Russia, until then the majority position, declined sharply in 2014. I wouldnt be surprised if at that point, there wasnt even a pro-Russian majority in the Russian-speaking territories of the east. It seems that the first mistake of Putin in this conflict was to advise the Ukrainian president to harshly crack down on the protests. The 2nd was, from a popularity viewpoint, to annex Crimea. Now that the war broke out, basically the whole country views Russia as an enemy, maybe except for 3-4 percent of the population, which is very low in lieu of the large Russian-speaking population. From my pov Russia missed a huge chance to use soft power in order to steer the country in a pro-Russian direction. It could have worked.
30:00 I really often hear from Pro Russian Propagandist that russian language is forbidden. Thats not true. Ukraine passed a law that in official institutions the language used is Ukraine and newspaper within the country must publish in Ukraine first before they publish in another language like russian, english, etc. Exempt are all newspaper outside of Ukraine or already published in another country, if i remember correctly. What people speak in their private space or on the street is totally up to them.
21:15 What about Israel and the WestBank, Israel moves in a ton of israelis into settlements in the WestBank and now those areas are (and will now permanently be) Israeli And the US supports it. So I think the argument of moving in a ton of ethnics can change legitimacy of a country is how the world works
I disagree with the settlements btw but Israel's annexation of the west bank for stragetic depth is far more justifiable. Nowerdays u can't justify west bank being occupied as Jordan isn't going to invade Israel again.
@@williamthebonquerer9181 the Threat of NATO invading Russia in this century is the same as Jordan invading Israel in this century. - non existant. But in the past 20 years, the rate of settlements has increased almost 3 fold despite knowing Jordan will never try to invade Israel again, we've known that since 1980. But Israel is still justified whilst Russia has no justification
@@superhamz7 He said it wasn't justified nowadays, though? "Nowerdays u can't justify west bank being occupied as Jordan isn't going to invade Israel again."
Pro Putin Lefty SNAPS, Starts Fight w/ Destiny And Moderator ►ruclips.net/video/pqktQZT5W2w/видео.html
Who are your sources you're basing your arguments on, are they same people who fabricated all of the Russia, Kavanaugh, Ukraine, RIttenhouse, Jan. 6th propaganda?
@@jaymzafish your mom
@@vishg5148 That would explain why Destiny has this so wrong considering she's been dead for 7 years.
He's a lefty how so? I'm pretty for far left and I know this war harms everyone. Not a huge fan Ukrainian government either, but Putin is a traitor and an asshole.
@@TheCirclekeeper you might want to edit this comment, it doesn't make any sense.
"I don't trust any source"
The hardcore skeptic is usually the easiest person to brainwash, because all it takes to convince them is something that's the opposite of what they've heard.
That's the secret to being an actual skeptic. You listen to both sides, and then decide. Now you've heard everything, and the "opposite" is no longer a thing.
@@Imbalanxd it doesn't help that the entire skeptic era of youtube was confirmation bias driving incredulity, and pretending that was skepticism. ruined the brains of an entire chunk of people that internalized that shit.
“I don’t trust any source but I do trust that Ukraine is wrong”
People like you started all the sand wars.
@@TonyCox1351 source: none i made it up
I always was wondering who would listen to Haz and be like: "yeah, Haz has good points" I could never understand how anybody would believe that. And even after 30 min into this video, I still can't really believe this is real life....
Probably because you support the american imperialist project
Haz has the "angry man yelling about politics" aesthetic going on, and a lot of people align politically solely based off aesthetics.
@@bastyo Your entire politics centres around hating America. Cope.
Is Haz the short dude that makes lots of short jokes? That guy is insufferable. I wouldn’t trust him for advice on my gym routine, much less international politics
@@_alreph does that make me a Hasan viewer?
"I'm not a tankie. I'm not a communist. I'm not tankie. I'm a capitalist. I'm a capitalist!" Man, the amount of times this guys says it, the less I believe it.
I'd ask him what the factory he owns produces, since he is a capitalist I mean.
Lmao 🤣
This is like Dave Rubin insisting for years that he was a liberal.
Out of curiosity what is a tankie?
@@GottHoldNicetomeet "Tankie" is a pejorative label for communists, particularly Stalinists, who support the authoritarian tendencies of Marxism-Leninism.
"I don't trust sources only videos I've watched " great way to start a conversation
If only he knew that those videos count as a source if he’s using them to get info
Look at this Jedi brutally killing clone troopers >:(
That was a big tell for me as well.
and a perfect summary of how hundreds of millions of people form their opinions
The count dankula school of thought
This guy cannot be real. Imagine having parents from two separate parts of the worlds and yet somehow still coming out inbred. This must be a dream or a bad trip.
English is probably his third or fourth language. How smart do you think you would sound?
@@michaelh878 Not inbred.
@@michaelh878 no matter what language youre using if you blame an invaded country for the deaths caused by said invasion youre inbred.
Edit - do you think if a lamguage is the 3rd or 4th you learnt that means you cant communicate as clearly as you would with your 2nd language?
Just more proof that race mixing is as bad as inbreeding
@@michaelh878 English is my fourth language. I can tell you right now that I do not sound like a moron when I speak English. Just because it is not my mother tongue doesn't make my IQ instantly drop when I switch to English.
Based on HazFan's accent, this guy is definitely Finnish, not Nigerian. And for a Finnish guy to defend Russia's actions, when Finland could be next, is pretty weird.
I’m 100% sure he’s one of the Russian Finns.
I think he said one of his parents is Finnish and one Nigerian, but yeah sounds like he grew up in Finland.
I'm Danish and I would 100% place him as Swedish but maybe that's just me
If anything happens with russia this guys get domed in a videogame in the first 5 minutes
@@TehSlice360 I’m swedish, the dude is far from swedish sounding
So he's ok to dissolve the borders of a country because some people in a region wish to join another country but if the majority of the population wants to oust their undemocratic leader then that's not ok 🤷
Reality exists only to serve the purposes of the totalitarian. It can be manipulated at will to produce the desired outcome. There is no underlying value system other than getting what they want. Every conspiracy is evidence of the willingness to fabricate reality to justify doing whatever the hell they want. Every supposed justification is a manipulation to convince other people to let them do what they want.
The U.S literally did this with Kosovo and supporting those separatists and then bombed the fuck out of Serbia for not accepting the results of the referendum and trying to take their land back.
Russia is doing the same playbook with the Donbass separatists.
@@Stevewilldoit96 I was living in Romania 1 hour from the Yugoslavian border at the time, I didn't see a huge US army invasion force enter, surround, and level entire Yugoslavian cities to the ground? Maybe I slept in late that day and missed it 🙂
@@Stevewilldoit96 Did you forget about the persecution and ethnic cleansing of Albanians by the Serbs that actually started all of it, or did you just pretend like that part didn't happen?
The majority of my household wants to join Norway, so do I just put down a flag or how do I do this?
haz Stan: mocks destiny's voice, calls him a mong, "the drugs are rotting your brain"
destiny: laughs at him
haz Stan: you're doing the ad hominem, its offensive btw
all this in less than 2 minutes lmaooo
haz Stan: "Shut the fuck up!"
Destiny: _Quietly starts up Elden Ring._
You can just see the moment in his face where he decides that this kid isn't worth the full extent of his attention after all.
@@TDnN_Noks I think he said Monkey not mong. Unless it was another time.
Time stamp por favor
@@william4996 Definitely sounded like Mong to me at one point.
@@TheHadMatters yeah could have been. There was just one point where I thought he was about to say mong but then I heard the key part. But I kind of went in and out of listening to the guy speak. It was painful
It's a good thing they said "I'm not a tanky" 18 times, if they only said it 17, I'd assume they were one.
Him saying "Eastern Ukrainians want to be part of Russia" almost seems invalid while looking at the war going on. They are fighting Russia tooth and nail.
Also saying you can slice off a country because "ethnic" people of my country live there so it's now mine, wouldn't Mexico have a right to slice off Texas and Cali?
Well the defence forces are fighting Russia. After all, the majority of Ukraines forces are in the east. It stands to reason that the hardcore nationalists would make up the majority of Ukraine's national army.
I assume when he says East he means the rebels in Donbas which would be kinda true as they were always Russian aligned but it ignores the sovereignty of Ukraine... but not Russia. Ukraine isnt some lesser partner, its a country in its own right
@@SmokingMan26 by that standard, the Turks would have a legitimate claim to fucking Berlin lmao.
@@Sue_Me_Too yea california, that shithole that contributes more to the union than any other state. You can have that.
29:08 This guy would have been a staunch supporter of Hitler and the Nazis too during WW2
Germany is rescuing the people of Poland from die Juden oppressors.
The fundamental issue with this guy's argument is that he has mistaken russian-speakers with pro-russians. Most russian-speaking ukrainians (like Zelensky himself) are not pro-Russia.
he's a yoo.
they dont care about the lives of actual humans.
Wait, isnt Infrared that knuckle dragging neanderthal who thinks that shouting over everyone makes him 'alpha'?
He has fans?
I think he's a troll. Seen him a bunch and there's no possible way that someone could be as braindead as him.
@@henrikswanstrom9218 idk man middle eastern machismo is just like that. I got uncles who speak just like that 😅😅😅
No, he isn't! That's so unfair! One has to be at least 4" tall to be considered a Neanderthal.
@@henrikswanstrom9218 oh it’s definitely possible
@@ProjectPaladin But he's the AK 4'7", so I'm pretty sure he still qualifies.
Half Nigerian-Half Finnish and all sorts of wrong apparently. I wish people would learn a bit more about history opening their mouths and giving Russia the benefit of the doubt that they are in Ukraine to save anything else other than Putin's delusions.
THE WEST IS RIGHT ALWAYS I FOLLOW THE CURRENT THING
what does his race have to do with it
I mean the guy did say he’s for white and Nigerians to start a proxy state in South Africa, if have to assume this would be his justification for the Russian invasion of Ukraine. So yea his race has a bit to do with it IMO
@@CODELIRIOUS-sy8xz MY ONLY BELIEFS ARE THE COUNTERJERK TO THE POPULAR THING I CAN'T GIVE ANY ARGUMENTS OTHERWISE AND I TYPE IN ALL CAPS
@@dwarvenminer3329 I USE REDDIT I SUPPORT UKRAINE I SUPPORT LGBT I SUPPORT BLACK HISTORY THUG
“I’m mixed race, therefore I’m an authority on Russian/Ukrainian relations”
listening to this guy is brain torture.
Plus, this idiot seems to use the same mic gain tactic like Haz. It hurts the ears. It's frustrating that tolerable debates are apparently only possible with the likes of Nick Fuentes or even Nazbols.
The dude struggles to stay on one topic and keeps getting mad at an argument hes having with himself in his head, how many times can you apologize for flying off the handle for being so stupid you got angry at something you've 'argued with a different person'
What would you expect from someone who takes Haz seriously.
the fact is ukrain killed 15k people in donbass and have no right acting like they are innocent they aren´t same for us we have started more wars then russia and if we are talking about Ameirca they abuse other countries with their power for example china
He argues purely to shut destiny up. Multiple points destiny tells him to go ahead and there's just silence
@@drama8335 I'm not sure english is your first language
@Chiyori Nakanishi if it isn't that's not the way to productively respond to him. But I don't blame you because only the first part makes any sense.
I wonder if these people legitimately support Russia 100%, or just want to be contrarians
The latter, it brings them infamy, which brings views. Clout chasers
Support Russia in what way exactly?
I don't think those people think Russian government is good or should've invaded or that Putin is good.
That's a small minority tbf.
But them presenting the other side of the story that sheds light on the Russian concerns and worries, and how the west could've approach this differently had Ukraine been more realistic.
I think this second type of people don't support Russia, just being honest about the situation.
On the other hand what you got?
Destiny types? That don't actually offer solutions and solid arguments other than the futile Russia bad NATO good. Nonsense.
The problem is most of those people, including destiny, don't know the fundamentals of the conflict and just emotionally arguing with their fellow numbnuts.
Like for 8 years war in Donbas was raging thousands killed due to shelling, how many vids did destiny make on that?
It's just keeping up with what's entertaining.
@@ebek4806 invading is obviously bad and you trying to complicate it more is just dumb take the L bro
@@ebek4806 didn't watch the video and just straight repeated the talking points of literally every person Destiny has debated about this GIGACHAD
They are just mentally ill
Engages in 48 min of green text talk just to land that league dig 🗿
Timestamp?
@@edithboozy1000 4chan speak, that is.
💪🏼💪🏼💪🏼💪🏼💪🏼
This guy just feels like a troll, very funny that every time he tried to pull destiny into a nonsense discussion destiny just slammed down facts and he pivoted to more nonsense.
He's so obviously a malicious, you can hear that half the time he says something he is holding back a smile/laughter.
@@mitko1123 I honestly think Destiny could have cut this conversation in half. Multiple times the guy basically laid out that he was working from a totally different world view and Destiny kept the conversation going rather than address that. For instance the guy admits he thinks that the russians in ukraine should have been allowed to vote themselves out. Destiny begins to show why this is unfeasible as a worldview but didn't follow through as strongly as he could. I think Destiny would rather keep the conversation going rather than draw lines in the sand and make his opponent address it or just admit the conversation can't move forward though.
@@PlasticSiding the fact is he ignored the reason for them wanting to vote out when you start a coup in a country other parts of it have full right to vote out of it also the fact you kill people for that is worse then what russia is doing
@@drama8335 There is no rulebook for how coups work, you trying to act like somehow ukraine is acting in a way that justifies any outside involvement is laughable.
If we were to try to construct a framework for rules concerning a coup it would likely work as follows: a coup doesn't create the ability for states to declare sovereignty via a vote. A coup is literally a mechanism by which political will is enacted via violence. If those states wished to declare themselves independent because of the coup, they would need to do so via violence. If they cannot do so via violence they do not have the right of sovereignty.
@@PlasticSiding coups are never ok that´s a act of treason and killing 15k people for over 8 years is exectly why i call this karma did any of the countries we invade deserve it how about iraq sirbia syria afghanistan no and it´s not just ukraine the problem is mostly NATO russia should have done this no matter what they had to show NATO who is a agressor and has started many wars that they stop now NATO said fuck russia and ukraine you really think what NATO is doing is helping no it´s causing mass casualties who were not needed not only that zelensky was voted presitent cause he promies to stand by the minsk agreement the fact your trying to say a coup is ok is insane and the sniper attack has everything pointing towards it being done by Azov which was supported by America
It's important to realize that Russian citizens do not view the "ethnic Russians" of the Donbas region as Russians. They view them as Ukrainians - and they do not view them favorably and most certainly do not want them emmigrating to Russia. It's the dumbest argument concerning the Donbas region.
it's also important to point out that 35% of the population in those territories are NOT ethnic Russians. I guess... fuck them? They just get to be Russian now with no consideration to their wants? I don't think the Tatars of Crimea were stoked on the Russian invasion because they boycotted the so called "referendum" and routinely experienced oppression by the russian occupiers currently and during the USSR.
I used to be a russian speaking Ukrainian before the full-scale invasion in 2022. I've been speaking russian EVERYWHERE, and there hasn't been a single time when I (or anyone of my familiars) was somehow discriminated. I was a free person in a free country. This "language issue" was incredibly exaggerated. Now I switched to Ukrainian voluntarily, and I'm encouraging every Ukrainian to do so (without any pressure, of course).
База. Така ж сама ситуація у мене
Here in mariupol guys that seemed to be police, but without badge, were roaming our streets in 2017 checking if we can speak ukrainian. I was 11 at the time and it was summer time so I mostly stayed at home, but my father told me how they would beat up, threaten, "scold" russian speakers. My dad, hopefully, knew a bit of ukrainian and the questions weren't hard, they were just making them so that russian speakers wouldn't understand them very well. It's good we left Ukraine tho
@@manidk2719 What a BS, most of Mariupol spoken in Russian.
@@pavlosegeda8294 not most, all of mariupol speaks russian
@@manidk2719 Yeah, because they all dead or escape. But before invasion like 99% was speaking Russian and nobody have problem with it. So you story is bs, just ask your farther why he believed in this shit.
With Hazfan's logic, I should be able to move to Russia and declare that part to be part of Finland. If Russian's try to stop me, it would count as a genocide. Or British people should be able to legally declare India to be a part of UK.
See what i dont get is how Albanians did this in Kosovo,yet nato didnt do anything,actually they did,they bombed us,but when it happens to Ukraine (a country they have interests in) now its not ok.Im not defending Russia but ill never defend Nato either,the notion that Nato spreads "peace and prosperity" is just bullshit.
@@kimaon3598 I know basically nothing about that conflict. However thus far NATO hasn't taken any part in Putin's war against Ukraine and I honestly think it doesn't have much to do with Putin's motives either.
If you lived there for decades and the new Junta government started discriminating against you then yeah you should be able to secede
The U.S state department supported this exact same thing with Kosovo.
It's always funny because if this is how things should go then immigration is the SCARIEST thing for a country to do. If you argue that you can get enough people into a country, set roots down, then fight to change that area to be part of your old home then no country should EVER want to immigrate more than a small number of people. No country would EVER want to take on refugees. It sounds like any anti-immigration person's wet dream.
@@Stevewilldoit96 I assume you are saying that Russians in Ukraine were discriminated in such a way that it would justify secession? I'd like to know what this treatment was. Nothing has really come up in these debates and all I can find is Ukrainian government nullifying a law securing the status of Russian language. It seems they did it in a really scummy way, but I don't think that justifies secession alone.
As a mixed guy myself we do not claim this guy, but it's funny how he claims Nigerian and not mixed or Finnish even tho he is from Finland, almost like he is trying to abuse it.
Minority status : 👍
White status : 👎
Him playing the nigerian card was incredibly cynical idpol. He was 100% doing it just because Destiny's american. The kinds of racial dynamics that language is usually invoked in relation to simply don't exist here in Finland. I'd be surprised if they guy had even been to Nigeria.
Tuomas Vanne That's because Finland is like 90%+ white, of course you guys are weird about people of colour. Don't pretend like Finns are some racially enlightened group who don't see colour. Lol bullshit. Most Scandinavians are just too polite to vocalise their opinions. Anglo countries are the most racially enlightened because we're the most mixed. Most of us are surrounded by non-white people. I bet in Finland, most school classrooms are white with one or two non-white kids. Don't play that "we don't see colour" line. It's nonsense. Everyone sees colour. Everyone's racial or ethnic identity is important to them. We don't live in some la la land where it's possible for all groups of people to get along. And if Finns don't see colour, that's only because they haven't been exposed to the worst aspects of multiculturalism.
"Idpol" What is it with people abusing the fuck out of this term? You do realise that every "rights" movement is "identity politics". Gay rights? Identity politics. Civil rights? Women's rights? Identity politics. Identity politics exist because there are groups that have historically been oppressed by the ruling classes. Again, what la la land do you live in where people's identities shouldn't matter?
@@roseg2239 Nice try bucko, but don't put words in my mouth. Nothing I said was incorrect or saying Finland is some racism-free paradise. We just don't have the same kind of history with race compared to America: No 400 years of slavery, no MLK counterpart, no gerrymandering, no generational wealth built on slave trade, no civil rights movement, no civil war over the right to own people. None of this means that Finland doesn't see colour, of course we fucking have problems with racism here. They just don't go nearly as far back or as deep as they do in the US.
Me saying that idpol is being used cynically does not equate to me invalidating idpol entirely. It has its place. But debates about subjects like this are not that.
@@bartholen The civil war was just a civil war the slavery thing came up so Europe couldn’t interfere. No your history was just being dominated under other powers especially the Russians.
These leftists coming full circle to supporting imperialism and colonialism lmao, and here I thought colonization was a bad thing
Badmouse, Non Compete and Prof Flowers have been remarkably quiet about Ukraine I must say.
@@pogo8050 I forgot about Prof Flowers--what an absolute lunatic 🤦♀️ I can't imagine her takes on Ukraine
AMERICA BAD!!!
@@bean-pod me neither. It must be like a brain breaker for her, because it’s the most blatant case of right to self determination of the past decade, but both parts are white and she’s associated with the tankie wokescold space, which is widely pro Russia, so I have no idea how she deals with it
Horsehoe theory before our very eyes.
The "I'm one of the only people who can see the truth." Mentality is so poisonous.
Destiny needs to start using “As an American Cuban…” in debates
That would be a scum bag move .I respect destiny for not bringing his race into debates
I can't believe mans went with the "Just surrender 4Head" take. Yeah, just give up your country lmao you don't need it.
Absolutely braindead. I would say he's the most impressive troll ever, but the drugs insult and league dig at the end shows he's was 100% serious throughout the conversation.
It's like hearing that there is a man in his home who every night has to fight off a group of homeless people trying to claim it as their home and then walking up and being like "bro just give them your home"
@@ProperlyGaming I mean clearly that's the only logical thing to do. When someone bullies you, attacks you, tries to steal your stuff or impedes your autonomy; you clearly have to just give in to their demands. This is literally the "let the rioters destroy your businesses" argument wrapped up in another shell.
the fact you can´t even understand why this is happening is sad has nothing to do with taking over ukraine they only said Cream is russiand donbass will be left alone and ukraine will stop killing people their that´s the demands and don´t join NATO learn to use your head instead of letting others do it for you
@@drama8335 "If you don't stop protecting your country, we'll continue to kill you until you do." How's Putin's boot taste?
@@drama8335 Firstly, I don't give a shit why they invaded. Second, there's something called pride. Try having some and maybe you'll see why everyone is on Ukraine's side. And lastly, please learn to use punctuation. My eyes burn trying to read your run on sentences lmao
The donbass war killed 3 a day. Alcoholism killed more a day
And 90% of those deaths happened in 2014 - 2016. Strange to use that pretext when hostilities have reduced so drastically, especially during Zelensky's presidency.
This guy was on Chudlogic's stream and he sounded so confident, asking for destiny fans to debate. Low energy and sad performance.
Dude brings up being mixed race more than Logic does
3:30
Person Destiny is talking to: The people in eastern Ukraine are primarily of Russian ethnicity. Therefore, Those regions should be allowed to join Russia.
Putting aside how you don’t actually believe this, what you are telling me is that you support ethnostates…
38:30 If the Allies just hadn't fought WW2 way less people would have died. Wow
Unironically true. The Nazis would never have gotten around to killing as many Russians as the soviets shit leadership got killed.
While what he said is super weird, there is a clear difference here. If a country is like yo, when you do this thing you make me nervous. I'm way bigger than you, don't do it anymore. That sucks, but thats geopolitics. The US does it to basically everyone. What I as an aspiring president would do is take the L and negotiate. Instead Ukraine directly threatened Russia. Thats big dumb.
Nazi Germany wanted the land. There was no diplomacy to be had in that situation. The only negotiations were "either you let us do violence to you, or we will do violence to you".
@@Imbalanxdlegitimate question, when did Ukraine threaten Russia?
@@Imbalanxd What did Ukraine do exactly? If you are talking about NATO they only wanted to join AFTER Russian had already annexed Crimea.
@@Fubasta a month before russian forces started massing at the borders he announced Ukraine would begin processes to reclaim crimea, through force if necessary
Holy shit, i'm 100% adopting the word caucasoid
@@Crimson50 Gigachad ethics sounds based. Did you mean ethnically tho? Ethically does make that even more epic LOL
Don't know why Destiny, Dylan or Vaush just ask the simple question in these debates: why has invading a country to combat extremism been successful? Maybe Germany and Japan, but that was a defensive war and Afghanistan was invaded twice for this reason and that didn't turn out well
Imagine being aware of the 60 kilometre long military convoy headed to Kyiv that is still failing to encircle the city and has lost some ground to counterattacks, and then drawing the conclusion that Ukraine doesn't have a "real fighting force left" just because the Ukrainians didn't blow it to smithereens. The power disparity obviously isn't the same as that between the US and Iraq when highway of death happened, not to mention the fact that Ukraine didn't properly prepare for an axis of attack from Belarus because of how unlikely that seemed.
Im just waiting here for when Putin Calls his army to ran/advance back into Russia victoriously because he showed the Evil Ukraine that there will be reactions from Russia if they ever genocides again,
and when asked about him not reaching any of his proclaimed military objectives, he will claim that human and more importantly Russian lives are way more important than any military objectives, because Putin just cares too damn much about well being of other people, that soft heart of his must be his only weakness
Watch task and purpose for more info about the Convoy the way it's reported in the media is very misleading
@@ye7625 Plesse tell us more. :)
@@tcritt Im not sure what you expect its been six months i dont recall the specifics of this topic but Russia getting counter offensived and losing is pretty bad.
You hear it all the time but it's amazing that Destiny can play that game and talk at the same time.
Ive been thinking the same thing. I can't multitask for the life of me lmao
@@0doublezero0 I don't think it's that Destiny is super intelligent or particularly good at multi-tasking, it's that once he realized he wouldn't need more than half his brain to carry on this conversation he felt comfortable splitting his attention. You notice he isn't playing elden ring at first.
@@0doublezero0 Yeah I wasn't trying to say Destiny is dumb, just that I don't think his ability to play while talking comes from his intelligence, but from the lack of intelligence from his opponent.
I don’t really understand it. When I play video games while trying to hold a conversation, I end up mindlessly running around in circles on the game. Lol
Nice timing August
Was just looking for content 👍🏾
to the Future People:
this is the actual state of Debates in 2022, colorized.
New Mexico literally go it's name from its high population of ethnic Mexicans... I guess the USA better hand that over to Mexico asap.
Here I thought after WW2 we would move past these blood and soil arguments to justify territorial expansion but here we are in 2022.
All I can do here is facepalm.
What's wrong with these people?
I love in the beginning when Destiny brings up the point about would it be ok if Mexico tried to reclaim areas of the southwestern US that have large Hispanic populations his response was “I don’t want to talk about America!”
But then midway through the debate, the minute he thought he can use it for his argument, he then brought up America. Haz has really grifted some of these rubes into his BS.
16:40 Yeah the eastern Ukrainians might have wanted to keep closer ties to Russia, but they didn't want to BE russia. because they can see the difference in standard of living across the border, and ain't nobody voting for poverty when the options are poverty or not poverty.
The gdp per capita of Russia has been 3-4 times that of Ukraine for the last 15 years.
According to the Gallup's survey performed on April 21-27 2014, 82.8% of Crimean people consider the referendum results reflecting most Crimeans' views, and 73.9% of Crimeans say Crimea's becoming part of Russia will make life better for themselves and their families, while 5.5% disagree.
According to survey carried out by Pew Research Center in April 2014, the majority of Crimean residents say the referendum was free and fair (91%) and that the government in Kyiv ought to recognize the results of the vote (88%)
@@michaelh878 Wonder how they feel now, in 2022 when both sides are eating breadcrumbs because Putin decided to throw a temper tantrum that his empire wasn't materializing fast enough. I also wonder what the mindset would be if all the native Crimean Tatars were still around with claims to the land, rather than the diminished amount that returned in 1989 and Russian passports hadn't been tossed into Crimea by the handful.
@@michaelh878 Which is why it is internationally recognized by every country, right? Riiiiiiiiight?
And you are showing your ass when you quote per capita economic data. The per capita economic data for America for example doesn't reflect the vast majority of people's actual experience trying to live, work, pay rent, and not starve. Its even worse for Russia where the wealth disparity is one of the worst in the world.
@@michaelh878 Not to mention this talking point has been stated over and over. The results were taken AFTER the invasion, and produced by the RUSSIAN government. It seems insane to take those %'s as accurate numbers. and just like JustBinia said, that is the exact reason the results aren't accepted internationally. There is far too high possibility of the data being skewed or falsified.
@@lord6617 I don't think Russia is worse; Americans sleep in tents on streets
If this guy isn't Finnish then I'll eat my hat. The arrogance and tone of language is 100% Finnish.
50% Finnish. Please.
@@markallen6433 Think he said he's half Nigerian, half finnish, at some point. Edit- fixed nationality, botched it first time around. -edit-
Alright, well. 32 minutes in he apparently says it, so I don't have to eat my hat.
Just a random thought, but the debate got me thinking; could some parts of Finland be able to decide to join Sweden with HazFans logic? Like Åland or majority Swedish speaking areas in western Finland?
@@Fubasta The arrogance?
@@Fubasta Well, the issue of Åland/ahvenanmaa comes up once in a while, they all speak Swedish, and could easily be made into this kinda situation. Quite a few of them would like to be Swedish as well. I'm not knowledgable about current intrests there in "joining" sweden, but its a talk that happens once in while. Also, lots of Finlands shoreline is peppered with Swedish speaking Finns. I'm also one quarter Swedish. Obviously Sweden could just say Finland are full of Nat.socs and we're genociding Ålanders(after like someone dies of a carcrash, but it was like Finnish agents). Then Sweden could move in, and claim to protect Swedish heritage or smth. Its a totally braindead logic, and this guy I dunno what he's smoking. He even pulled out the "is it because I'm black" to one of destinys arguments that werent even directed at him, which makes me think this guy is probably REALLY deep into social reject territory, or he's got some really odd friends. Its possible being mixed race to feel like an outsider, very dependent on his surroundings, and that could probably push you to look into "other" media, to find some explanations there. If you dont trust the media, if its too "white", then ofc its easy to think everything the media says is wrong, and thus end up with these conclusions. His final thoughts on not understanding why the convoys arent attacked, also showed how clueless he is about military stuff, so he probably didnt go to the conscription service in finland, rather took the loser-route of civilservice, sitting in alibrary. Othervise, its not much tactics required to figure, and the news has also pointed this out, that attacking convoys that are without fuel, food etc, is pointless, as you can hyperfocus on active elements, and let the ones that are stuck, be stuck. Priority targets... But yeah. He was all arrogance, no sense. Sorry for the wall of text. But its frigging annoying when a countryman is shitting on your national image.
Damn those pro Russia half white Finnish Nigerians.
Ukraine has to be the only country with pro EU ultra nationalists 😂 9:42
I mean, I’m a German and that’s exactly what I am.
@@muninnsays9296 Good for you mate. I was more thinking about those groups generally. Like when You see Le Pen in France, Farage in UK, the Polish and Hungarian goverments and any other personas that you can hear in international media (Not to say they are ultra nationalist but they are 'mainstream' nationalists). Can I ask You how this works out for You. Like who are You voting for in Germany or what is your position on imigration in the EU. Wouldn't You be more accurate saying you are a patriot? I'm asking because when people say ultra nationalists, they generally imagine neo nazis, homophobia, transfobia, islamofobia and anti imigration policies
@@maciejpietrek3131 most European parties have the same policy on immigration. The ones that don't are the ones you listed and a few independents, (As well voted into EU parliament)
Over here nationalism is good, exactly what "Patriotism" is in the US.
Although, when it's added with the whole "All these foreigners taking our job" types and "The gay".
It's very cringe.
I wouldn't consider myself as EU nationalist. That makes no sense.
The EU isn't a nation (And the idea of a United States of Europe is disgusting and should be looked down upon) IMO
First, my own nation
Second, European.
The economy and Peace is what makes the EU worth while.
Very confusing Organization, but way better than none. Or war...
@@Lala-kc2fw Yep, I agree 100%. So it's just the difference of definitions. To me it's very annoying when some say nationalism is basicly patriotism and other append all those atributes You mentioned. There are always those semantic discussions of what means what. I live in Poland and I mostly use it in the latter meaning, although I think I'm in the minority here. It was just presented to me like that when I still was in school and it stuck with me - as said by Macron: “Patriotism is the exact opposite of nationalism: nationalism is a betrayal of patriotism”.
@@maciejpietrek3131 I remember when Marcron said that, for me I heavily disagreed with him on that.
Even in Eastern Ukraine, more people wanted to join the EU than Russia.
Cause they are a different ethnic group... sounds an awful lot like an ethnostate argument.
He did literally make that argument for south africa
@@derekcooper6988 to be fair, he doesn’t seem inconsistent, just insane.
Watching this in October of 2024 is wild. This guy is a complete clown.
Haz is petite
*busty petite
13:47 "Couldn't they have theoretically brought back Yanukovych if that was the will of the people?"
Indeed, they could have. That's pretty much what happened 5 years after the Orange Revolution.
I feel like most other russia supporters usually realize that if theyre gonna complain about the Azov Battalion, they have to mask their ethno-nationalism when they talk about Donbas, but this guy just went all in, even made fun of Destiny for thinking that ethno-nationalism is not acceptable anymore
When we try to assess how well a democracy is representing the will of the people you have to necessarily look forward from an event. In this case the revolution in Ukraine lead to a string of free elections, formation of new parties and previous leadership stepping down upon losing elections without issue. These are markers of a political system that is healthier after the revolution. You can't just sit there and reiterate the same shit about how "it's a coup, it's illegal, it's illegitemate" for a decade afterwards. That is myopic.
This and Jabson Dankle's 1v1 with Dylan Burns reminds me of Westworld "Doesn't look like anything to me" any time war crimes are brought up.
I missed the Jefferson Tinkles v Dylan debate. Worth watching or just a calmer rehash of the one with Kremlin Gremlin?
@@taranullius9221 it was mostly concerned with Syria, worth it if you want more Syrian history and context that exposes Jobsons shillery
War crimes? More like war time cringe compilation.
@@josszarnick2393 War Crimes? More like IRL heated gamer moments #10
"I don't trust any of the sources, I just trust the combat footage that I see."
Okay and what is the combat footage saying? Literally nothing because its all contextless clips.
Mistä löytyi se ainut suomalainen joka on näin naiivi Venäjän suhteen?
Where did you find the ONE finn who is this naive in regards to Russia?
The thing that pisses me off the most when Destiny goes up against these dense mofos is that they continually think they think they're winning the argument and out of frustration Destiny just gives up, rolls his eyes, nods, and just says get fucked and effectively checks out. I admire destiny for lasting 1000x longer than I would in these situations... but fight the good fight and hang around till they shit themselves and give up. Don't cede ground, throw your hands in the air and just give up.
At a certain point it just loops forever, he’s had a lot of experience with that recently lmao, it was probably good to cut the convo where he did
@@derpmanTV Oh absolutely. But I get pissed when I listen to a 2 hour video and waiting for that Destiny knock out blow only for him to throw his hands up and just skip out because he knows the guy he's talking too is too dense to even understand he's being ridiculed lol. Feels like a let down lol.
His Kiev fighting force take aged very badly
The Tiny Tsar
Argues about Ukraine for 40 minutes while holding his anger back. Leaves in anger only when his skill in league is called into question. Very based
Listening to this guy talk is painful.
“You’re bad at league of legends”
*destiny draws the line and ends the call* 😂
14:00
What were the choices in the Crimean referendum? Was the choice to rejoin Ukraine an option? No?
Hmmm…
hilarious watching this a year later
JF is an Infrared fan?
Man I wrote 4 months ago that his stance aged very badly. Even more so now
29:00
Why am I not surprised that a Has stan would make arguments in favor of the South in the American Civil War?
Also, as for the supposed "civil war" thing that Destiny seems to believe in as well. The russian ex-FSB colonel (there can be no "ex-FSB colonel", but whatever) Girkin and his group captured a bunch of cities back in 2014. Some of these cities though were liberated by Ukrainian Army later in the same year. And suddenly, the war ended in those cities. People just continued living peacefully, no civil war, no nothing. So how's that possible if Ukrainian Army made a "genocide of russian-speaking people"?
24:58 “my source is that I made it the fuck up”
They have electric in the Ukrain still because they have been hardening their system against attacks since 2014
😂😂😂 dude said it's Ukraine prolonging it and more people are dying because Ukraine won't surrender
Haz fan is all you need to know
"where did america do this?" "Shut the fuck up!"
???
winning the argument i guess
23:21 he came
With Western world he means the majority of countries in the UN.
The man literally had 45 minutes alone with Destiny, and the one true thing he said was at the very end
the famous european country of the United States
my favorite is when he just denies facts the chat spams gigachad "no."
This guy says he's a capitalist. 🤣
As a capitalsit he should know how fucking bad anexing crimea is for capital flow.
I’d believe it, he seems to simp for authoritarian capitalism like China or the Russian Empire.
@@onlyeveryone2253 if only
Many capitalists support russia it's not the weird
6:49 to 7:28 is very revealing about the man Destiny is debating when it comes to this issue. A person truly comfortable in their beliefs and thought processes wouldn't get so defensive when someone offers to present counter evidence.
18:25 Ukraine existed in various times in the past, just like Poland... When the Nazis invaded Poland then depending on how you look at it Poland existed for even less time than Ukraine has (only like 20 years because the First World War led to it being a country again)... But of course, Poland also has history as a country in like the Middle Ages and stuff... So it's not really a new country it's just a country that keeps getting destroyed (by countries like Russia) and then brought back... It's a bit different between Poland and Ukraine admittedly, but still...
Ukraine never had a state before the 20th century. The ukrainian identity started to form in XVIII/XIX century. It's not comparable to Poland.
@@ackermanlol I looked it up and apparently there is written evidence of the Ukrainian language from the late 16th century... So who was writing things down in the Ukrainian language if not Ukrainians?
@@ackermanlol having a state and having a national identity is 2 different things, you do realize that?
@@ackermanlol The idea idea of a nation state is very new.
Haz STILL does not know who the fuck Ray is.
Did Destiny make it to Diamond?
Even better, he made it to plat 3 😎
@@mr.t107 So did he fail or is there still time left in the season? I don't play league nor watch destiny live much
Yup, that's definitely a Haz fan.
This kid can't even take a counter claim without losing posture is actually cringe
As a Finn this guy sounds nuts. I guess he forgot that Finland became independent from Russia so is he wanting to Finland become part of Russia as well?
And we didn't even wage war for our independence we just waited until the leadership was ripe for it. Sure we had to defend our independence afterwards because of the next leader who saw it as a mistake by then we already had claimed our independence.
East Ukraine could had followed similar steps if he claims that people in the East Ukraine didn't want to be part of it. Just pressure Ukraine politically and eventually they would figure it easier to let them claim independence and get annexed to Russia if they wish so. I have my doubts though that the people in East Ukraine wished for this but that is how I would see it done if that was the case.
Wat, Finland was let free after WWI, the Bolsheviks viewed the Baltics, Poland and Belarus as more important which is why they went to war with them and not Finland.
Everyday Russia does shit like this makes me wish we took Patton's course and marched to Moscow from Berlin to end this screaming child of country once and for all
Russia is run by J since 1917. Back then it was a world leading leader in killing W people and bolshevizing Europe.
The best part is where he brings up that Destiny is bad at league and the video just instantly ends.
Right in my feeeeed
You probably comment this on every single video he posts don't you
@@loverofbigdookies Ya than prolly goes right into a lex Friedman Podcast video
The argument that Russia is right the "defend" Ukranian Russians because they're being attacked is completely bonkers when you consider the only reason they're being attacked is that Russia started a war there. If Russia pulled out of Donbass, the civilians there wouldn't need defending, because there wouldn't be a war.
DESTINYYYYYYYYY
Afaik, in Ukraine, the friendly position towards Russia, until then the majority position, declined sharply in 2014. I wouldnt be surprised if at that point, there wasnt even a pro-Russian majority in the Russian-speaking territories of the east. It seems that the first mistake of Putin in this conflict was to advise the Ukrainian president to harshly crack down on the protests. The 2nd was, from a popularity viewpoint, to annex Crimea. Now that the war broke out, basically the whole country views Russia as an enemy, maybe except for 3-4 percent of the population, which is very low in lieu of the large Russian-speaking population. From my pov Russia missed a huge chance to use soft power in order to steer the country in a pro-Russian direction. It could have worked.
Why does he keep on bringing up hes nigerian?
russians should be careful about the argument of "russians live here this is russia" because chine has its sights on Vladivostok
Oh, boy.
30:00 I really often hear from Pro Russian Propagandist that russian language is forbidden. Thats not true. Ukraine passed a law that in official institutions the language used is Ukraine and newspaper within the country must publish in Ukraine first before they publish in another language like russian, english, etc. Exempt are all newspaper outside of Ukraine or already published in another country, if i remember correctly. What people speak in their private space or on the street is totally up to them.
but using the logic migrating to Russia
than why did Kosovo get independence these people are Albanians why did they not just left to Albania
and you can use this logic to Kurds in turkey why not just leave to Iraqi Kurdistan
also the same about Bosnians in serbenitsa
plus moving alot of people the US did that to every state outside the 13 first stats
or Armenians in turkey
or arabs in iran
didnt know that hasanabi hated ethnic europeans.
21:15 What about Israel and the WestBank, Israel moves in a ton of israelis into settlements in the WestBank and now those areas are (and will now permanently be) Israeli
And the US supports it.
So I think the argument of moving in a ton of ethnics can change legitimacy of a country is how the world works
I disagree with the settlements btw but Israel's annexation of the west bank for stragetic depth is far more justifiable. Nowerdays u can't justify west bank being occupied as Jordan isn't going to invade Israel again.
@@williamthebonquerer9181 so you agree with Russia's opinion that western Ukraine is a justifiable threat to eastern Ukraine and Russia ?
@@superhamz7 no because Ukraine was neve going to invade Russia.
@@williamthebonquerer9181 the Threat of NATO invading Russia in this century is the same as Jordan invading Israel in this century. - non existant.
But in the past 20 years, the rate of settlements has increased almost 3 fold despite knowing Jordan will never try to invade Israel again, we've known that since 1980.
But Israel is still justified whilst Russia has no justification
@@superhamz7 He said it wasn't justified nowadays, though? "Nowerdays u can't justify west bank being occupied as Jordan isn't going to invade Israel again."