The real answer is: whatever you find most comfortable. And by that, I don't mean "what you are best at", I mean whichever your hands will be thanking you for using after long sessions or long-term usage. Hands are important, their health is important, make them happy.
my hands literally start to go numb using a controller for more than a couple hours at a time. even the switch pro controller starts to get to me after a while. a bit odd that M&K is the comfort pick for me since I know a lot of people would think the opposite
The most egregious disparity imo is DMT vs TLW. I think outbreak perfected is good on both, grav lance too. I’m pretty decent with polaris lance but my mnk brethren are so much better at popping off with it. (I don’t heat rises). I appreciate the video man.
I wish for DMT and LW to be more equally balanced between input devices one day in the future. More than anything, as a K&M LW user, the one thing that really kills it for me is the flinch. The rest can be learned and compensated for. But when you start getting flinched you just have to disengage, while controller in some situations can commit and finish up a kill you would've missed on k&m.
@@tenacity25 what’s funny is back when LW could snipe on mnk. I still can’t use LW on either input. Crazy how people complain about it now despite its former mnk strength. I do agree with you though, the mnk flinch is surreal.
I've grown to be able to use DMT well with controller (while hipfiring too) though it's harder than if I used MnK. Last word is damn near impossible for me on MnK though.
@@Heirrogance man I'll never forget ADS'ing and just unloading a clip with LW when it dropped on MnK for the first time during black armory. It was glorious.
As a tip for console users... Map some of the combinations like uncharged melee for a button of your cross pad, and map that to a paddle. You can keep the emotes by changing emotes to hold the Button.
@@christwalken12 just use auto? Dpad is better for punching stasis crystals or punching bodies, not really directly punching people. Granted, I use it to throw knives or punch people but they're frozen a lot of the time so it's not a huge deal. Sometimes I need to use a throwing knife from point blank, that's where at least having the option is nice.
I've played a fair bit on both PC with M&K and Console with Controller. Personally I found much greater instant success on M&K but its worth noting PC lobbies are far sweatier than Console lobbies so that effect is offset. That being said I eventually swapped to fully playing on PS5 since it was over doubling my PC's frames and have in the long term preferred it. I think this is largely because I play more games on controller so it just feels more comfortable in my hands then a M&K ever did, though one big issue is console games have much greater limits on re-mapping then PC so I struggle when I play a different shooter for too long. In the end its a comfort pick, but if I had the option of playing either on console I'd probably use M&K for the crazy high end potential with things like slide sniping/ crazy flicks and air shots. And better button mapping on strand specifically. (On a standard controller without extra buttons you just don't have enough binds to fully utilize the PvP sand box effectively, and that comes out most prevalently on strand. If you have a fancy controller with paddles on the back I'd assume its fine.) In PvE a lot of the glitchy techs like well-skating are also extremely difficult on controller and relatively easy on M&K by comparison, as well as using weapons like rapid fire snipers since you have much less recoil. (Everything is possible, it might just be more effort.)
On controller, you can map things to double-tap or d-pad. I played a lot of LeMonarch + Lucky pants on controller. Thats one thing you need claw grip for
Love using the Elite controller, with the charged uncharged melee what i do is keep the charge on my bumper, but a neutral melee is always click right stick. No matter the class if your shotgunning and theyre too close youll always have your thumb on your look stick for an easy click quick melee, and if they are further away on hunter i can choose my knive as a cleanup, or choose to use celestial fire far more tactical. That way its never an accident when theyre too close or your not exactly looking at a hit box and you fumble a charged melee.
Tldr M&K: -better recoil(dont know any examples this isnt true) -aiming outside "intended range" -aiming non hitscan(grenades, grenade launchers, hammers, etc) -airborne effectivness is more effective (retical friction doesnt scale well in the air) -better hipfire (minus last word) -functions better with movement(flicks, slides, etc) -m&k exclusive tricks like snap skating and knife cancelling -scroll wheel binds -far more buttons to bind to Controller: -generally easier to pick up -camping a lane is easier(eg: static snipes) -easier to aim at target you cant see(crimson, lighting effects) -last word -can play on a bean bag
I quite enjoy sidearms (precision frames in particular) on m&k, even before the slew of buffs they got a few seasons back. During the Immortal meta I found great success using the Prophecy sidearm which could 4 tap outside of target lock's optimal range (prior to rangefinder changes anyway) It's still a favourite of mine & I need to farm out a better one
As a controller main on PC for the last 4 years, I agree that both input devices have their respective pros and cons. I've improved enough at MnK to match my performance on controller, I just lack consistent performance. From my experience, the biggest skill gaps between the two are movement/instant 180 flicks, and better perceived stability/weapon recoil on MnK. To my fellow controller mains, if you want an equal or better shooting experience than MnK, I recommend as much stability as possible on your primaries, and build as much into flinch resistance as you can. Not much you can do for the limited movement and looking speed aside from finding a decent middle ground sensitivity that allows you to flick and 180 fairly fast, but still being able to aim properly. I've settled on 10 with 1.0 ADS modifier. Favorite controller weapons: 140 & 120 HC's with high stability, Not Forgotten, Shayura's Wrath, BXR-55 Battler, Sidearms, Bows, Snipers, and The Last Word
one thing I don’t see discussed much regarding input discussion is the subjective irl feel of the input device. I love the freedom of a Mouse, along with utilising many Mouse buttons, but HATE keyboards for all gaming in general specifically for 3D movement. Whereas Controllers just feel all around comfortable for me.
if we could have a hybrid of the two I think that would be best of both worlds. The left side of a controller combined with a mouse with side buttons sounds perfect to me
Yeah I wouldn't say many are moving hyper fast like hynra and hitting crazy hips, hips are way worse on controller, but deadream does really well as a pretty aggressive bow
@@Manstrual that's the thing, even if you can somewhat move as fast and agile as they can (wich I can't, daddy loves fusions) then you need to hit the shots a hit.
I would argue that pulse rifles are fairly good on controller for similar reasons to Crimson. I play controller and NTTE has always felt fantastic to me.
As someone who has played both MnK and controller for years even outside Destiny, I found that the main deciding factor on which input to use is how you tend to play engagements. MnK players are more for short fights or peeking style of gameplay. Weapons that take less shots to kill and are more about reaction time work best. In comparison, controller is about committing to engagements. Rapid consecutive flinch and recoil are easier to negate, and the aim assist helps with consistency.
That means while you play MNK you might be leaning too far or sitting in an awkward posture. I switch between both inputs and bc I'm less familiar with controller I find myself feeling this way on sticks faster than MNK bc I've spent so many years playing MNK shooters
It seemed like you glossed over the movement gap, such as shooting backwards which can be done while sliding or jumping while using MnK. Also that yes Bungie has recently adjusted much of the rang withing certain gun types, the META that is has has been within the "best guns" still leans on MnK. Even if the selection is narrower that coupled with the clear better movement abilities gap leans and will always lean unless Bungle rebuilds the MnK coding from the ground up. Appreciate the time you take to explore these
Some of those things can be done on Controller just not natively. to me to be competitive movement wise on Controller you have to learn to play on higher sens.... and use DS4 windows to get more controller custom options but with high sense you can slide backward and shoot backwards granted not as good as MNK but it can be done. you can def break ankles with Controller.
thoughts from a 3.0kd player: mnk is competitve if you spend 10,000+ hours mastering the input controller is easier and better than mnk plug in a controller and youll be better than 90% of mnk players. stay consistent with controller for a few weeks or months and youll be better than the top mnk players, so just play controller
I never found that the downsides of controller outweighed the benefits, gotta respect anyone that can put up with it. +easier target tracking +can play not at a desk +can take guess shots through bad lighting -harder to control high recoil -slower sens/cant snap aim -drags aim off target to closest moving thing -significantly harder to hit outside of range -fast moving targets break your aim -slower strafe -cant slide backwards -cant manipulate movement tech (Icarus dash, bakris dodge, gamblers dodge, stasis titan melee, thundercrash) -less keybind options -no macros
yeah, the lack of mentioning gyro is probably the biggest flaw in this video. lets you turn up your sensitivity way higher on controller for better movement while maintaining the ability to aim precisely and flick (EDIT: I have been informed that D2 gyro support is not really a thing)
With how high the deadzones in the game are there’s virtually no such thing as minuscule stick drift. You can practice using both sticks to maximize aim assist value easier than you can fight constant drift when you might want to turn a certain direction but are forced to do it slower because of a worn controller.
I like certain hand cannons on controller like austringer with 68 range and 88 stability with zen moment I just hold down and auto fire it cause it’s so stable lol. Ingneous is pretty good on controller too with more time to correct yourself and how op that gun is anyway.
In my experience as a mnk player, both inputs are generally pretty equal. Mnk has movement while controller has better aim. Playing in casual lobbies I will often get shredded by a single player repeatedly before checking and seeing that they are on console. When fighting good players however, the difference in aim is massive. Controller players have better aim. Period. In order for me to beat them I either have to use crazy movement or wait for them to make a mistake. It is almost impossible to beat them in duel in the open. If the good controller player has a sniper though? Forget it. That is an unwinnable fight.
Input based matchmaking is what Halo MCC has and it's great. I do not want to spend another $500+ and then another online subscription for games that don't run or look as good as they do on my PC, and have way more downsides that aren't about gameplay specifically. I've done the MnK -> controller -> MnK again dance enough. It's just about what I want to pull off, includes comfort.
I’ve been playing controller my entire life starting on games like halo and cod. I predominately play destiny now. All I’ve known was controller use and just recently started mnk. I feel like I’m back to square one playing mnk getting less than 1kd. On controller I’m averaging over 2kd. My preference is with controller because it’s what I know. I do not want to give up on mnk because I see the benefits as well.
M&K and controller are basically equal for most things. One exception is AE. Using wings of sacred dawn with outbreak was my example that showed me how much AE favours M&K and I am terrible with a mouse and still found it so much easier to hit shots in air. Given the current state of the game, this doesn't mean so much but it feels bad not being able to properly use Dawnblade or other aerial setups on controller. For weapons that are controller favoured, I would put in my mention for glaives being better on controller but that might be my lack of skill on M&k showing through.
The controller reticle friction/adhesion you mentioned is a pro and also a con because you can also be pulled off target by other opponents or things like the strand hunter clone, plus hunter dodge breaks that friction which tends to throw off your aim momentarily because of the sudden change in reticle speed with the loss of friction. Additionally, adhesion is a limiting factor when trying to aim up/down with a controller especially if ADS and/or in closer ranges. Mnk also has *more* bullet bending, which has been tested and confirmed by Bungie, so you said that one a little backwards. I just play on console though so I play against fellow controller players, except for whatever handful of cheaters there may be. I do not like the way the game plays overall in pc lobbies, so I just quit playing on pc. I had to accept the pc sandbox gameplay, quit d2 pvp, or move laterally to console, so console was the best option for my liking because it just eliminates any of the mnk vs controller discrepancies and has, imo, a better overall gameplay experience.
I don’t think the imputs are drastically unbalanced but as a controller main I can’t understand the rationale of most things being passively more accurate on mouse and keyboard
Funny enough for me i have a hard time playing with most other 140 hand cannons besides Ace and i play controller. I guess i got down the recoil control a while ago and its just everything else that feels weird. I am decent with sturm and drang tho. Drang especially i dont have to aim at all. Other than those pulses are what i normally run. No time is always great feeling but I found I gravitate more to my rapid hit messenger. Also Crimson feels amazing. Anyways great video. Glad to see why i have a hard time with smgs when im not running stability.
Honestly it’s only certain smgs that need stability specially the 750. The 600s and 900s are fairly easy to control even with a base stabil stat. Immortal has always bounced left and right for me too much. I have an extraordinary rendition with 0 stability.
Same, every once in a while i try mnk again and i feel like most of the time I’m thinking about my inputs rather than thinking about gameplay. If i could play mnk proficiently i would in a heartbeat but i just feel more comfortable on roller
There's a reason why when its trials week most ppl switch to their console to play trials, cuz its sooo much easier to win cuz everyone isn't rubber banding
Yeah, eye adaptation from beyond light update is so bad when going from indoor to outdoor. Is it cinematic? Aure. But in PVP where it’s meant to be competitive? It’s a disadvantage for players looking indoor to outdoor.
m+k when you're competent. obviously skill > input. just feel like being able to 180 slide and primary a shotty rusher and dash around on dawnblade is too good to pass up. If you can land your shots anyway controller is a downgrade. if it was 50/50 pvp would be crossplay
@@SuperTurboPOP It doesn’t, just saying that the game is clearly optimized for console play at its core in my opinion. I have fun playing on MnK, and I’ve spent thousands of hours in the game on it, but the game just seems better as a console game to me. It’s just my opinion.
The airborne and hipfire feels so terrible on controller (console). Not sure why we have these severe penalties, i feel like it's pretty popular feedback that this is super unnecessary.
I love this type of content. I want to suggest something that you might have fun experimenting with. I use a scuff reflex controller with the tall stick on the right for aiming. Added foam to the right stick and I play at 20 sensitivity. The foam lets me aim my sniper as if I have 7 to 8 sensitivity but then if I need to make a quick flick or turn around or make a quick 180, I got the full 20 sensitivity when I pull the stick all the way to whatever direction. I would love to send you a picture of my set up if this is something that interests you in experimenting.
@@RevXIin Bungie's terms, Aim Assist IS bullet bending/magnetism, you can find that stat in weapons ingame, reticle friction is considered a separate thing which only exists for controller, also according to Mercules904 mnk has "between 10%-20% more bullet bending depending on weapon", pc also just has less recoil by default I believe it's just a stability buff but not sure
@@RevXI The other cool thing is knowing when your comment is useful. What you explained has absolutely nothing to do with what I'm talking to Cammy about. He said something that doesn't align with what Chris Proctor said. Theoutlaw is correct. Mercules gave exactish figures but I didn't even remember that happened. Chris Proctor did give a passing comment though. I'm not saying Cammy is wrong but the two sentiments contradict. If you actually read what I said and didn't just want to explain something then you wouldn't have left that comment.
@nrdscott No. It's okay if I'm wrong about something. It's okay to correct it. I'm okay with being wrong. It's not okay to be a dick. Don't try to establish an unsung dogma to justify your behavior.
I upped my controller sense to 14 because I hate turning so slowly and not being able to flick especially for shotguns but I’m not sure if it’s possible to have the same aim as a sub 10 sense. I have a couple hundred hours on 14 and sniping and also primary aim is just not the same amount of sticky. Been playing Destiny on controller since 2014 tho so I’m just thuggin it out
I come from the Q2/Q3 and UT competitive scene from waaaaay back in the days so i'm pretty good tracking with a mouse in a fast paced game ... and still i'm way better in the Destiny games with controller for some reason.
I would do one thing… it’s called motion aim… its weird, i know, but I play this game called Splatoon competitively so it feels normal. I play fortnite on occasion because it also supports motion aim. If Destiny 2 supported it, i would be accused of zimming.
It feels incredibly natural in Splatoon (I played a lot of 1 and 2, didn't put as much into 3 for whatever reason). That's admittedly a pretty odd game, since there isn't really a headshot mechanic, bullets are huge, and you spend much of the game shooting to spread ink rather than to kill enemy players. But on a game that doesn't support MnK, it was clear to me from the day the original dropped that gyro was optimal, and that people going "waaaah motion controls" were just operating on Wii-era information. I'm glad to have heard better players than me come to the same conclusion in the years since. I saw a video a couple weeks ago that a TF2 pro put out about running lobbies in that game using a gyro controller along with an alternate binding for the right stick called "flick stick." That person still didn't think it was as good as MnK for that game (TF2 is supposedly extremely MnK-friendly), but it did a whole lot to close the gap.
Question from a controller (actually console) player: so I am a solar warlock main but I don´t use heat rises, I have tried to use it but it just never feel good, should I full commit to it? it will turn out to feel good at a certain point? If you people say that I should keep trying, would you mind to give advice about it? (I usually play sniper and a hc)
@@skintxisu I play on ps5 aswell, and yeah I usually use it the same way, that's exactly why I changed for Touch of Flames, is a more powerful cure after all.
Lower sens and take your time with it. I use it with handcannons tho and occasionally high impacts, it's not as good as mnk but it's serviceable. I run 10/0.7 and it's okay when i run 14/0.5 it felt bad..the thing is you have to choose between snappiness or aiming in d2 due to shitty controller settings.
I think (no joking here) this is a brave video to put, because my god are PC players just so chained to the idea that Controller is broken and unbeatable. As a console player in a PC clan, when they learn that I play console firs they go "oh my god I didn't knew. Controllers are so broken" and no man, I just don't want to learn MnK. I'm a 32 year old man brother, when I play FPS controller has always felt right and I've never owned a dedicated PC for gaming. MnK has always felt better for movement for the points Cammy made and controller has more reticle friction and other things. To me both have cons and pros. If anything to me personally, I get why PC players love their HCs. They feel so easy to use and fun in them. In console, on contrast, fusions just seem broken to me. Trials you always have to fight someone with it. And they always have +3000 kills.
as someone who's been a 2.0+ trials player on both imputs, the reason m&k players feel the way they do is because against high level controller players, it legit feels like ur playing against aimbot. You can engage in all types of ways, flinch, or even use crazy movement tech, but sometimes it doesn't matter. Top .1% controller players can dictate the game in a way you wouldn't believe.
MnK player here. interestingly, my experience has always been that, like, basically every other D2 video I watch has a guy in the comments going "waaaah this isn't possible on console." Confirmation bias? Two different pools of people? Who knows. I do get frustrated sometimes about controller snipers specifically, but admittedly that's at least, like, 75% mad-cuz-bad. Very few cracked MnK sniper players out there compared to controller, at least as far as I can find fishing for content about it.
@colinfaherty661 yeah, I think the same. People here saying that 0.1% in controller feels like cheating and I mean, my brother in christ, you don't think it's the same for 0.1 in Mnk? I'm an ascendant player usually in the 1, 0.5% in trials that plays in PC lobbies. Both inputs are balanced.
you talked about weapons that favor input device. Do you think all of the old 150 handcannons favor MnK? on console they all seem to still have the old 150 recoil to the moon?
Hipfire on mnk is kinda free if you have good aim, I kinda guess that’s why they capped hipfire damage eh? Because hipfire has faster strafe and movement compared to ads…
Lots of people say dead-man's tale is the mouse/keyboard equivalent to the last word. I myself know the former feels good on mouse & keyboard but I haven't tried it on controller.
Hawkmoon, Thorn and Rose are top on both input devices . M/K has better accuracy on long range shoots with pulses and 120 thanks to the 15% higher bullet bending . Controller aim gets in troubles as soon as the shoot distance is over the aim assist range - on the other hand weapons like sidearms, fusions, autos and smg s are very strong within aim assist(reticle fricton)range.
6:52 The reticule position shouldn't matter at higher levels because you should eventually be able to aim without needing to know where your sights are.
another huge difference is aim assist is much different playing on pc vs console for controller. bungie said they nerfed your controller aim assist on pc which honestly feels pretty crap.
Keyboard and Mouse is far healthier for your hands and fingers. Controllers are terrible and lead to arthritus significantly more. There's many studies, peruse Google if you're curious. That's why I'll always use MnK, regardless of the games input meta.
That is not true. There is no evidence proving that claim. Perhaps it can be said that smaller controller types may lead to repetitive stress injuries due to the small form factor for some people, but otherwise that's just not true. If anything, we know for certain that keyboard use can most definitely lead to things like carpal tunnel when precautions are not taken properly.
The only games that have ever given me consistent hand pain are Melee (well, Project M, but close enough for this discussion), and Destiny 2 on MnK. In particular I put Full Auto Retrofit on 360 sidearms--the idea that we were ever supposed to pull the trigger at the same rate some auto rifles fire is insane. Really I should just be using the accessibility setting, though.
I play 100% of PvE on MnK and 100% of PvP on Controller. Grew up on console so my aim and tracking are better on the sticks, but MnK is more fun imo & feels better for multitasking / mechanic heavy stuff. I want to get good enough with MnK to use it in Crucible but I’m not there yet. (And yes, I use both for Gambit lmao. I pick up the controller when I invade.)
There's a reason why Legoflash fusion guy always runs high ranges and little to no stability on his fusion. I can't make this shit up when I say a high range fusion on controller has the most ridiculous brain dead aim assist tracking there is. If you used that same layout on your fusion for mnk u will literally miss shots 9/10 times. Most fusions on mnk sit around 19m-22m. And on controller I've seen most of them push past these up to 25m with little to no stability on them.
@@raduv1619 keyword up to 25 most fusions sit around 19-20m and this accounts for moving targets. Fusions can go past their intended ranges on controller becomes of how strong aim assist bends the bolt. U can try this out with eye of the storm on mnk too and on controller. Get eye of the storm to proc and be surprised to see just how much aim assist/accuracy and range matters on fusions even without damage stacking. Bolts aren't like your typical bullet that land on your opponent they sometimes have a mind of their own especially when using different inputs devices. Because of reticle stickiness on controller it makes going for higher stability a waste because u already have that built in tracking (reticle stickiness) from a fusion. It's why if u ever watch top level fusion rifle players that are on mnk they often do what is called a flick charge and split second ads. Because that's is the only way u can offset the intervals between each bolt and recoil of the fusion.
Im an ex kbm player that swapped to controller the last two years and I can confidently say controller is nowhere near as free as players think it to be. I'm definitely more accurate on kbm with better movement but prefer controllers cause its more comfortable for longer sessions.
this could just be me, but from my experience, piece of mind feels better on controller than MnK if it's just me, then ill just have to accept it's a skill issue
Mnk is superior: because it allows me to beam people where I normally struggle to fight recoil and loss of aim assist on console. Console is much easier to win up close fights like sidearm smg but the issue is that mnk has superior movement making it easier to break aim adhesion. As in if you have really cracked movement the controller player will not be able to kill you when playing around lots of cover. Controller aim assist is funny, if only someone’s head is showing on a head glitch the aim assist feels super weak and sometimes non existent, but when on mnk I just have to track them best I can and because of bullet bend I normally win even when some roller player has the peak spot. Controller relies specifically on aim assist and adhesion, where mnk has always felt more raw input… like when I’m in the zone I’m running over people even when the game expects me to lose by 80% and I pull out 22 kills and 3 deaths. Also console vs mnk pc. Pc auto has the advantage just with frames alone making the console player feel as if you have walls. The same feeling you get when someone slides up stairs on you and you are 2 tapped the second you see their head due to cam breaking(if you don’t already know, plus peaking right is a nono because it gives enemy advantage due to cam being centered more left.) but now it’s every angle due to frame speed etc of pc. The reason I side with mnk when thinking to play higher end pvp and controller when doing lower end things…. Pve can all be done on controller (except soloing content not ever meant to be solo’d)
i really dislike how destiny youtubers cannot make the distinction between console and pc. pal, the jig is up. and stop using ds4 and “accessibility software”. these crucible dude have been cheating for years.
I played on both. I'm not a pro by no means. I get more headshots on controller. But fail to land bullets when enemies are out of range. MnK i miss more but easily land bullets outside of my weapon range.
That’s because the farther away the target the aim assist cone falls off and you’re pure aim comes into play against a mouses natural aim which is undoubtedly better without the help of aim assist on controller.
It maybe fair for other guns, but tracking on sniper for console when ads is way too much. Espcially when sniper have high aa, its too broken thats why mnk players are complaining.
Grapple grenade is another example, movement tech is far superior on MNK than it is on controller. It was always the supers that took advantage of this difference, but I believe strand is the first to make a subclass feel vastly different on both devices when using grapple grenade in particular.
been playing both since it came to pc. also been telling all the complainers that its a console controller game PORTED to pc. controller will always be easier to play with and complaining about either input just makes you look very very dumb
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The real answer is: whatever you find most comfortable.
And by that, I don't mean "what you are best at", I mean whichever your hands will be thanking you for using after long sessions or long-term usage.
Hands are important, their health is important, make them happy.
Ergonomics are sadly often overlooked, when they should arguably be the most important factor in input device choice!
Facts. I get wanting to perform the best 24/7, but unless you’re making enough money to retire on, don’t permanently ruin your hands for a hobby
my hands literally start to go numb using a controller for more than a couple hours at a time. even the switch pro controller starts to get to me after a while. a bit odd that M&K is the comfort pick for me since I know a lot of people would think the opposite
Had shoulder wrist pain playing mnk. Only get occasional thumb pain when on controller
Ya I have wrist problems so mnk is a no go. My left arm is numb in like 30 min on a keyboard. Controllers were built for my hands.
The most egregious disparity imo is DMT vs TLW. I think outbreak perfected is good on both, grav lance too. I’m pretty decent with polaris lance but my mnk brethren are so much better at popping off with it. (I don’t heat rises). I appreciate the video man.
I wish for DMT and LW to be more equally balanced between input devices one day in the future.
More than anything, as a K&M LW user, the one thing that really kills it for me is the flinch. The rest can be learned and compensated for. But when you start getting flinched you just have to disengage, while controller in some situations can commit and finish up a kill you would've missed on k&m.
@@tenacity25 what’s funny is back when LW could snipe on mnk. I still can’t use LW on either input. Crazy how people complain about it now despite its former mnk strength. I do agree with you though, the mnk flinch is surreal.
I've grown to be able to use DMT well with controller (while hipfiring too) though it's harder than if I used MnK. Last word is damn near impossible for me on MnK though.
@@Heirrogance man I'll never forget ADS'ing and just unloading a clip with LW when it dropped on MnK for the first time during black armory. It was glorious.
@@shade_steppa scary too
As a tip for console users... Map some of the combinations like uncharged melee for a button of your cross pad, and map that to a paddle. You can keep the emotes by changing emotes to hold the Button.
I disabled two of my emotes to just be able to press the D-pad for uncharted and charged melees. Been a game changer
@@Manstruali found it awkward when trying to shoulder charge from the dpad
@@christwalken12 just use auto? Dpad is better for punching stasis crystals or punching bodies, not really directly punching people. Granted, I use it to throw knives or punch people but they're frozen a lot of the time so it's not a huge deal. Sometimes I need to use a throwing knife from point blank, that's where at least having the option is nice.
@@christwalken12 Try charged melee on Right Stick click and Right Bumper on Auto melee
My favourite fighting game question, where the person asking wants a definitive best-in-slot answer...when there really isn't one
Completely agree on high stability SMG’s on controller. 31 stability immortal difficult to track good players
I've played a fair bit on both PC with M&K and Console with Controller. Personally I found much greater instant success on M&K but its worth noting PC lobbies are far sweatier than Console lobbies so that effect is offset. That being said I eventually swapped to fully playing on PS5 since it was over doubling my PC's frames and have in the long term preferred it. I think this is largely because I play more games on controller so it just feels more comfortable in my hands then a M&K ever did, though one big issue is console games have much greater limits on re-mapping then PC so I struggle when I play a different shooter for too long.
In the end its a comfort pick, but if I had the option of playing either on console I'd probably use M&K for the crazy high end potential with things like slide sniping/ crazy flicks and air shots. And better button mapping on strand specifically. (On a standard controller without extra buttons you just don't have enough binds to fully utilize the PvP sand box effectively, and that comes out most prevalently on strand. If you have a fancy controller with paddles on the back I'd assume its fine.) In PvE a lot of the glitchy techs like well-skating are also extremely difficult on controller and relatively easy on M&K by comparison, as well as using weapons like rapid fire snipers since you have much less recoil. (Everything is possible, it might just be more effort.)
On controller, you can map things to double-tap or d-pad. I played a lot of LeMonarch + Lucky pants on controller. Thats one thing you need claw grip for
Jump is right trigger, crouch is left trigger. I copied my setup from Warframe as soon as D2 gave me full control, Strand movement isn't hard anymore.
@@Zevox144how is changing ur jump to the trigger that normally shoots making the game easier for u? That sounds like the worst set up ever.
Love using the Elite controller, with the charged uncharged melee what i do is keep the charge on my bumper, but a neutral melee is always click right stick. No matter the class if your shotgunning and theyre too close youll always have your thumb on your look stick for an easy click quick melee, and if they are further away on hunter i can choose my knive as a cleanup, or choose to use celestial fire far more tactical. That way its never an accident when theyre too close or your not exactly looking at a hit box and you fumble a charged melee.
By default Is anything bound to right stick click? I’ve been trying to find a spot to put my uncharged melee button
@@Changingtestingonly finisher is, so it doesn't matter
Tldr
M&K:
-better recoil(dont know any examples this isnt true)
-aiming outside "intended range"
-aiming non hitscan(grenades, grenade launchers, hammers, etc)
-airborne effectivness is more effective (retical friction doesnt scale well in the air)
-better hipfire (minus last word)
-functions better with movement(flicks, slides, etc)
-m&k exclusive tricks like snap skating and knife cancelling
-scroll wheel binds
-far more buttons to bind to
Controller:
-generally easier to pick up
-camping a lane is easier(eg: static snipes)
-easier to aim at target you cant see(crimson, lighting effects)
-last word
-can play on a bean bag
Didn't mention that controller has easier time with flinch and better with tracking weapons
all true but you can snap skate on controller, you just have to keep the stock controller configuration.... so a pro controller is recommended.
I quite enjoy sidearms (precision frames in particular) on m&k, even before the slew of buffs they got a few seasons back. During the Immortal meta I found great success using the Prophecy sidearm which could 4 tap outside of target lock's optimal range (prior to rangefinder changes anyway)
It's still a favourite of mine & I need to farm out a better one
As a controller main on PC for the last 4 years, I agree that both input devices have their respective pros and cons. I've improved enough at MnK to match my performance on controller, I just lack consistent performance. From my experience, the biggest skill gaps between the two are movement/instant 180 flicks, and better perceived stability/weapon recoil on MnK.
To my fellow controller mains, if you want an equal or better shooting experience than MnK, I recommend as much stability as possible on your primaries, and build as much into flinch resistance as you can. Not much you can do for the limited movement and looking speed aside from finding a decent middle ground sensitivity that allows you to flick and 180 fairly fast, but still being able to aim properly. I've settled on 10 with 1.0 ADS modifier.
Favorite controller weapons: 140 & 120 HC's with high stability, Not Forgotten, Shayura's Wrath, BXR-55 Battler, Sidearms, Bows, Snipers, and The Last Word
one thing I don’t see discussed much regarding input discussion is the subjective irl feel of the input device. I love the freedom of a Mouse, along with utilising many Mouse buttons, but HATE keyboards for all gaming in general specifically for 3D movement. Whereas Controllers just feel all around comfortable for me.
if we could have a hybrid of the two I think that would be best of both worlds. The left side of a controller combined with a mouse with side buttons sounds perfect to me
Daily videos lately? CRAZY AWESOME dont burn out man we love you!
Bows can be similar in both devices but aggresive bow builds like Hynra uses can't be pulled off in controller.
I wouldn't say can't, rather the skill ceiling is far lower. But the statement isn't wrong.
Yeah I wouldn't say many are moving hyper fast like hynra and hitting crazy hips, hips are way worse on controller, but deadream does really well as a pretty aggressive bow
@@austynh1 hipfire is tragic with a controller 😂
@@Manstrual that's the thing, even if you can somewhat move as fast and agile as they can (wich I can't, daddy loves fusions) then you need to hit the shots a hit.
@@Manstrual yeah that's what I meant, can't for the life of me hit consistent heads with hipfire on controller
I would argue that pulse rifles are fairly good on controller for similar reasons to Crimson. I play controller and NTTE has always felt fantastic to me.
As someone who has played both MnK and controller for years even outside Destiny, I found that the main deciding factor on which input to use is how you tend to play engagements.
MnK players are more for short fights or peeking style of gameplay. Weapons that take less shots to kill and are more about reaction time work best.
In comparison, controller is about committing to engagements. Rapid consecutive flinch and recoil are easier to negate, and the aim assist helps with consistency.
Reticle stickness is such a big reason why it feels like controller players are soo accurate. Shit is annoying af, especially when they on sidearms
I play both, Its a lot easier to hit your shots on M&K imo.... so it evens out. its perfectly balanced just not a excact balance
I also notice that playing MnK results in a more stressful play session. Controller I feel like I can sit and relax.
I sit behind a desk all day for work, coming home playing mnk feels like more work. Controller gang for me
That means while you play MNK you might be leaning too far or sitting in an awkward posture. I switch between both inputs and bc I'm less familiar with controller I find myself feeling this way on sticks faster than MNK bc I've spent so many years playing MNK shooters
Holy shit, I didn't know controller only stuck if you were moving. 😂
It seemed like you glossed over the movement gap, such as shooting backwards which can be done while sliding or jumping while using MnK. Also that yes Bungie has recently adjusted much of the rang withing certain gun types, the META that is has has been within the "best guns" still leans on MnK. Even if the selection is narrower that coupled with the clear better movement abilities gap leans and will always lean unless Bungle rebuilds the MnK coding from the ground up. Appreciate the time you take to explore these
Some of those things can be done on Controller just not natively. to me to be competitive movement wise on Controller you have to learn to play on higher sens.... and use DS4 windows to get more controller custom options but with high sense you can slide backward and shoot backwards granted not as good as MNK but it can be done. you can def break ankles with Controller.
thoughts from a 3.0kd player:
mnk is competitve if you spend 10,000+ hours mastering the input
controller is easier and better than mnk
plug in a controller and youll be better than 90% of mnk players. stay consistent with controller for a few weeks or months and youll be better than the top mnk players, so just play controller
Yah destiny and cod are the only fps I feel is better to play on controller
My fav guns to play on Controller is Sweet Business. Both Hip-fire and ADS has good tracking
I never found that the downsides of controller outweighed the benefits, gotta respect anyone that can put up with it.
+easier target tracking
+can play not at a desk
+can take guess shots through bad lighting
-harder to control high recoil
-slower sens/cant snap aim
-drags aim off target to closest moving thing
-significantly harder to hit outside of range
-fast moving targets break your aim
-slower strafe
-cant slide backwards
-cant manipulate movement tech (Icarus dash, bakris dodge, gamblers dodge, stasis titan melee, thundercrash)
-less keybind options
-no macros
Those downsides 💯 outweigh your very short list of benefits, I'm sorry bruh lol
hip fire the bows on mnk, aim them down on roller, and do both on gyro.
yeah, the lack of mentioning gyro is probably the biggest flaw in this video. lets you turn up your sensitivity way higher on controller for better movement while maintaining the ability to aim precisely and flick (EDIT: I have been informed that D2 gyro support is not really a thing)
Based on the rotational aim assist in this game, having a minuscule amount controller stick drift might be highly beneficial
With how high the deadzones in the game are there’s virtually no such thing as minuscule stick drift.
You can practice using both sticks to maximize aim assist value easier than you can fight constant drift when you might want to turn a certain direction but are forced to do it slower because of a worn controller.
Any form of involuntary input is detrimental
its commonly used in many games. Depending on the way the game handles aim assist it helps alot.@@rhyshuber9981
In a game where you can change the dead zone, yes. But you can’t change the dead zones in destiny. Makes controller feel slow imo.
@@tylerherdman1755 you can change deadzones on certain controllers
I like certain hand cannons on controller like austringer with 68 range and 88 stability with zen moment I just hold down and auto fire it cause it’s so stable lol. Ingneous is pretty good on controller too with more time to correct yourself and how op that gun is anyway.
In my experience as a mnk player, both inputs are generally pretty equal. Mnk has movement while controller has better aim. Playing in casual lobbies I will often get shredded by a single player repeatedly before checking and seeing that they are on console. When fighting good players however, the difference in aim is massive. Controller players have better aim. Period. In order for me to beat them I either have to use crazy movement or wait for them to make a mistake. It is almost impossible to beat them in duel in the open. If the good controller player has a sniper though? Forget it. That is an unwinnable fight.
My buddy started mnk first. Went from 1.1 console to 2.23 mnk in 2 and almost a half months…. In cod btw but still it’s what got my attention.
12:23 this is why zoom is still very important on controller. Ty escape velocity 🔥🙏🏻
Thorn has always frustrated me on console. Feels like it doesn’t return to zero at ttk. You have to flick all 3 shots to stay competitive.
I will probably never touch pc but I love understanding stuff like this.
3:27 bungie has confirmed that MNK is both more accurate and has wider AA cones (in exchange for no reticle friction)
Smg/sidearm snipe- controller
Hc shotty- MnK
smg is way better on mnk since there's very little recoil compared to controller
Input based matchmaking is what Halo MCC has and it's great. I do not want to spend another $500+ and then another online subscription for games that don't run or look as good as they do on my PC, and have way more downsides that aren't about gameplay specifically. I've done the MnK -> controller -> MnK again dance enough. It's just about what I want to pull off, includes comfort.
I do both. MnK when I want to challenge myself… controller when I want to take it easy.
I’ve been playing controller my entire life starting on games like halo and cod. I predominately play destiny now. All I’ve known was controller use and just recently started mnk. I feel like I’m back to square one playing mnk getting less than 1kd. On controller I’m averaging over 2kd. My preference is with controller because it’s what I know. I do not want to give up on mnk because I see the benefits as well.
M&K and controller are basically equal for most things. One exception is AE. Using wings of sacred dawn with outbreak was my example that showed me how much AE favours M&K and I am terrible with a mouse and still found it so much easier to hit shots in air. Given the current state of the game, this doesn't mean so much but it feels bad not being able to properly use Dawnblade or other aerial setups on controller.
For weapons that are controller favoured, I would put in my mention for glaives being better on controller but that might be my lack of skill on M&k showing through.
The controller reticle friction/adhesion you mentioned is a pro and also a con because you can also be pulled off target by other opponents or things like the strand hunter clone, plus hunter dodge breaks that friction which tends to throw off your aim momentarily because of the sudden change in reticle speed with the loss of friction. Additionally, adhesion is a limiting factor when trying to aim up/down with a controller especially if ADS and/or in closer ranges. Mnk also has *more* bullet bending, which has been tested and confirmed by Bungie, so you said that one a little backwards.
I just play on console though so I play against fellow controller players, except for whatever handful of cheaters there may be. I do not like the way the game plays overall in pc lobbies, so I just quit playing on pc. I had to accept the pc sandbox gameplay, quit d2 pvp, or move laterally to console, so console was the best option for my liking because it just eliminates any of the mnk vs controller discrepancies and has, imo, a better overall gameplay experience.
I love wave frames on controller, as the ground can't eat my aim assist. Yet, it can eat the shot itself😂
I don’t think the imputs are drastically unbalanced but as a controller main I can’t understand the rationale of most things being passively more accurate on mouse and keyboard
Just another weird quirk of destiny. but hey, like you said they're pretty balanced
Funny enough for me i have a hard time playing with most other 140 hand cannons besides Ace and i play controller. I guess i got down the recoil control a while ago and its just everything else that feels weird. I am decent with sturm and drang tho. Drang especially i dont have to aim at all.
Other than those pulses are what i normally run. No time is always great feeling but I found I gravitate more to my rapid hit messenger. Also Crimson feels amazing.
Anyways great video. Glad to see why i have a hard time with smgs when im not running stability.
Honestly it’s only certain smgs that need stability specially the 750. The 600s and 900s are fairly easy to control even with a base stabil stat. Immortal has always bounced left and right for me too much. I have an extraordinary rendition with 0 stability.
Most pulse rifles feel good on M&K to me, but Cold Denial with its low zoom…that’s something else
I dont feel like in in full control with mnk. Cant dodge, melee or throw grenades how i want without having to give up movement 😅
Same, every once in a while i try mnk again and i feel like most of the time I’m thinking about my inputs rather than thinking about gameplay. If i could play mnk proficiently i would in a heartbeat but i just feel more comfortable on roller
Never knew that about shayuras recital
xD
I love the catch at the end
There's a reason why when its trials week most ppl switch to their console to play trials, cuz its sooo much easier to win cuz everyone isn't rubber banding
Controller on console is a vastly different experience than on PC. On PC, it’s way stronger than on console.
Yeah, eye adaptation from beyond light update is so bad when going from indoor to outdoor.
Is it cinematic? Aure. But in PVP where it’s meant to be competitive? It’s a disadvantage for players looking indoor to outdoor.
m+k when you're competent. obviously skill > input. just feel like being able to 180 slide and primary a shotty rusher and dash around on dawnblade is too good to pass up. If you can land your shots anyway controller is a downgrade. if it was 50/50 pvp would be crossplay
I’m an MnK player, but D2 should be played on console. The game is meant to be played on console.
Okay, why do you think this? I’m genuinely curious as to why it matters what platform its played on to you
@@SuperTurboPOP It doesn’t, just saying that the game is clearly optimized for console play at its core in my opinion. I have fun playing on MnK, and I’ve spent thousands of hours in the game on it, but the game just seems better as a console game to me. It’s just my opinion.
I love how the options on console are controller or cheat
But the game is so much slower on console. Bringing up the inventory screen etc is a grind. It’s actually kind of a dog to play when not on PC.
@@enneff even on ps5/ series X?
The airborne and hipfire feels so terrible on controller (console). Not sure why we have these severe penalties, i feel like it's pretty popular feedback that this is super unnecessary.
I love this type of content. I want to suggest something that you might have fun experimenting with.
I use a scuff reflex controller with the tall stick on the right for aiming. Added foam to the right stick and I play at 20 sensitivity.
The foam lets me aim my sniper as if I have 7 to 8 sensitivity but then if I need to make a quick flick or turn around or make a quick 180, I got the full 20 sensitivity when I pull the stick all the way to whatever direction.
I would love to send you a picture of my set up if this is something that interests you in experimenting.
This was very informative. Thank you for making this video.
Chris Proctor said in the past that MnK has more aim assist than controller btw. Bullet bending, not the reticle friction.
@@RevXI Cammy said in the video that MnK shoots straighter and the bullets bend less.
I don't need your explanation.
@@RevXIin Bungie's terms, Aim Assist IS bullet bending/magnetism, you can find that stat in weapons ingame, reticle friction is considered a separate thing which only exists for controller, also according to Mercules904 mnk has "between 10%-20% more bullet bending depending on weapon", pc also just has less recoil by default I believe it's just a stability buff but not sure
@@nrdscott The cool thing about a public comment thread is that every comment is entirely unsolicited. You don't need to be a dick about it.
@@RevXI The other cool thing is knowing when your comment is useful.
What you explained has absolutely nothing to do with what I'm talking to Cammy about. He said something that doesn't align with what Chris Proctor said. Theoutlaw is correct. Mercules gave exactish figures but I didn't even remember that happened. Chris Proctor did give a passing comment though.
I'm not saying Cammy is wrong but the two sentiments contradict. If you actually read what I said and didn't just want to explain something then you wouldn't have left that comment.
@nrdscott No.
It's okay if I'm wrong about something. It's okay to correct it. I'm okay with being wrong.
It's not okay to be a dick. Don't try to establish an unsung dogma to justify your behavior.
Can you make a best floating pulse rifle rifle video for both controller and mnk. Please.
Just started on m and k after years on controller, and my poor fingers can not get the motions down from shift to crouch and the gernade.
lmao i feel you just don’t give up on it we all went thru this as mnk players but the reward when you get it down is worth it
I use controller because I don’t have enough desk space for MnK to be effective
I upped my controller sense to 14 because I hate turning so slowly and not being able to flick especially for shotguns but I’m not sure if it’s possible to have the same aim as a sub 10 sense. I have a couple hundred hours on 14 and sniping and also primary aim is just not the same amount of sticky. Been playing Destiny on controller since 2014 tho so I’m just thuggin it out
"No scrub mentality, you chose the input device for a variety of reasons, dont make excuses on behalf of the other".
Real talk
I come from the Q2/Q3 and UT competitive scene from waaaaay back in the days so i'm pretty good tracking with a mouse in a fast paced game ... and still i'm way better in the Destiny games with controller for some reason.
I like the clickyclack of keyboard. Also better for my fingers.
I would do one thing… it’s called motion aim… its weird, i know, but I play this game called Splatoon competitively so it feels normal. I play fortnite on occasion because it also supports motion aim. If Destiny 2 supported it, i would be accused of zimming.
It feels incredibly natural in Splatoon (I played a lot of 1 and 2, didn't put as much into 3 for whatever reason). That's admittedly a pretty odd game, since there isn't really a headshot mechanic, bullets are huge, and you spend much of the game shooting to spread ink rather than to kill enemy players. But on a game that doesn't support MnK, it was clear to me from the day the original dropped that gyro was optimal, and that people going "waaaah motion controls" were just operating on Wii-era information. I'm glad to have heard better players than me come to the same conclusion in the years since.
I saw a video a couple weeks ago that a TF2 pro put out about running lobbies in that game using a gyro controller along with an alternate binding for the right stick called "flick stick." That person still didn't think it was as good as MnK for that game (TF2 is supposedly extremely MnK-friendly), but it did a whole lot to close the gap.
Motion aim is how controllers can be on par with MnK in a competitive setting
If YOU are moving whilst shooting your SMG then the target locking is much stronger than if standing still
Question from a controller (actually console) player: so I am a solar warlock main but I don´t use heat rises, I have tried to use it but it just never feel good, should I full commit to it? it will turn out to feel good at a certain point?
If you people say that I should keep trying, would you mind to give advice about it? (I usually play sniper and a hc)
I have given up on heat rises. I'll just use it for the burst of cure, to float longer for whatever reason o as a desperation move. I play on ps5
@@skintxisu I play on ps5 aswell, and yeah I usually use it the same way, that's exactly why I changed for Touch of Flames, is a more powerful cure after all.
Lower sens and take your time with it.
I use it with handcannons tho and occasionally high impacts, it's not as good as mnk but it's serviceable.
I run 10/0.7 and it's okay when i run 14/0.5 it felt bad..the thing is you have to choose between snappiness or aiming in d2 due to shitty controller settings.
So what are the best competitive weapons for controller players? I love using Ace, but you said the m&k is the better input device for hand cannons.
Destiny is the only game i play with a controller on PC. Half for tracking + magnet aim assist, Half because I hate high recoil games on MnK.
apparently recoil is much more limited on mouse than compared to a joystick
I think (no joking here) this is a brave video to put, because my god are PC players just so chained to the idea that Controller is broken and unbeatable. As a console player in a PC clan, when they learn that I play console firs they go "oh my god I didn't knew. Controllers are so broken" and no man, I just don't want to learn MnK. I'm a 32 year old man brother, when I play FPS controller has always felt right and I've never owned a dedicated PC for gaming. MnK has always felt better for movement for the points Cammy made and controller has more reticle friction and other things. To me both have cons and pros. If anything to me personally, I get why PC players love their HCs. They feel so easy to use and fun in them. In console, on contrast, fusions just seem broken to me. Trials you always have to fight someone with it. And they always have +3000 kills.
as someone who's been a 2.0+ trials player on both imputs, the reason m&k players feel the way they do is because against high level controller players, it legit feels like ur playing against aimbot. You can engage in all types of ways, flinch, or even use crazy movement tech, but sometimes it doesn't matter. Top .1% controller players can dictate the game in a way you wouldn't believe.
MnK player here. interestingly, my experience has always been that, like, basically every other D2 video I watch has a guy in the comments going "waaaah this isn't possible on console." Confirmation bias? Two different pools of people? Who knows.
I do get frustrated sometimes about controller snipers specifically, but admittedly that's at least, like, 75% mad-cuz-bad. Very few cracked MnK sniper players out there compared to controller, at least as far as I can find fishing for content about it.
@life-destiny1196 the fact that both sides complain as much as they do speaks to how they're pretty balanced IMO
@colinfaherty661 yeah, I think the same. People here saying that 0.1% in controller feels like cheating and I mean, my brother in christ, you don't think it's the same for 0.1 in Mnk? I'm an ascendant player usually in the 1, 0.5% in trials that plays in PC lobbies. Both inputs are balanced.
You got my answer I'm going to repeat it one more F... time 😁
you talked about weapons that favor input device. Do you think all of the old 150 handcannons favor MnK? on console they all seem to still have the old 150 recoil to the moon?
Hipfire on mnk is kinda free if you have good aim, I kinda guess that’s why they capped hipfire damage eh? Because hipfire has faster strafe and movement compared to ads…
The Vex definitely feels the same to me on Controller VS MnK
Which is to say I don’t have it so I can’t use it on either lmao
Lots of people say dead-man's tale is the mouse/keyboard equivalent to the last word. I myself know the former feels good on mouse & keyboard but I haven't tried it on controller.
It's bad on controller, like people just use Jade rabbit bad
What mouse pad do you use?
Hawkmoon, Thorn and Rose are top on both input devices . M/K has better accuracy on long range shoots with pulses and 120 thanks to the 15% higher bullet bending . Controller aim gets in troubles as soon as the shoot distance is over the aim assist range - on the other hand weapons like sidearms, fusions, autos and smg s are very strong within aim assist(reticle fricton)range.
Sniper rifles are stupidly broken on roller, it's the reason why all snipers in scrims play on roller.
I use both inputs depending on what weapon I am using
6:52 The reticule position shouldn't matter at higher levels because you should eventually be able to aim without needing to know where your sights are.
How do you feel about sidearms moose and keyboard vs controller
another huge difference is aim assist is much different playing on pc vs console for controller. bungie said they nerfed your controller aim assist on pc which honestly feels pretty crap.
I need an updated one with M&K settings. Dpi, sensitivity, the whole stuff. I’m new and trying to learn
Keyboard and Mouse is far healthier for your hands and fingers. Controllers are terrible and lead to arthritus significantly more. There's many studies, peruse Google if you're curious.
That's why I'll always use MnK, regardless of the games input meta.
My anecdotal experience is opposite to this, I can’t play long sessions of mouse and keyboard without my hands seriously hurting
It is really a case-by-case basis, pre-existing conditions especially can affect which device can be the healthiest for your hands and fingers.
That is not true. There is no evidence proving that claim. Perhaps it can be said that smaller controller types may lead to repetitive stress injuries due to the small form factor for some people, but otherwise that's just not true. If anything, we know for certain that keyboard use can most definitely lead to things like carpal tunnel when precautions are not taken properly.
Controller feels more comfortable to me.
The only games that have ever given me consistent hand pain are Melee (well, Project M, but close enough for this discussion), and Destiny 2 on MnK.
In particular I put Full Auto Retrofit on 360 sidearms--the idea that we were ever supposed to pull the trigger at the same rate some auto rifles fire is insane. Really I should just be using the accessibility setting, though.
I play 100% of PvE on MnK and 100% of PvP on Controller. Grew up on console so my aim and tracking are better on the sticks, but MnK is more fun imo & feels better for multitasking / mechanic heavy stuff. I want to get good enough with MnK to use it in Crucible but I’m not there yet. (And yes, I use both for Gambit lmao. I pick up the controller when I invade.)
Super helpful tysm! ❤
Fusion bolt behavior is different on roller, likely there are other cases too.
There's a reason why Legoflash fusion guy always runs high ranges and little to no stability on his fusion. I can't make this shit up when I say a high range fusion on controller has the most ridiculous brain dead aim assist tracking there is. If you used that same layout on your fusion for mnk u will literally miss shots 9/10 times. Most fusions on mnk sit around 19m-22m. And on controller I've seen most of them push past these up to 25m with little to no stability on them.
@@Lonzology there is no fusion that kills at 25m without damage stacking, Glacio can kill at 24m and that is with killing wind active.
@@raduv1619 keyword up to 25 most fusions sit around 19-20m and this accounts for moving targets. Fusions can go past their intended ranges on controller becomes of how strong aim assist bends the bolt. U can try this out with eye of the storm on mnk too and on controller. Get eye of the storm to proc and be surprised to see just how much aim assist/accuracy and range matters on fusions even without damage stacking. Bolts aren't like your typical bullet that land on your opponent they sometimes have a mind of their own especially when using different inputs devices. Because of reticle stickiness on controller it makes going for higher stability a waste because u already have that built in tracking (reticle stickiness) from a fusion. It's why if u ever watch top level fusion rifle players that are on mnk they often do what is called a flick charge and split second ads. Because that's is the only way u can offset the intervals between each bolt and recoil of the fusion.
Im an ex kbm player that swapped to controller the last two years and I can confidently say controller is nowhere near as free as players think it to be. I'm definitely more accurate on kbm with better movement but prefer controllers cause its more comfortable for longer sessions.
windshield wiper aimer here
this could just be me, but from my experience, piece of mind feels better on controller than MnK
if it's just me, then ill just have to accept it's a skill issue
Mnk is superior:
because it allows me to beam people where I normally struggle to fight recoil and loss of aim assist on console.
Console is much easier to win up close fights like sidearm smg but the issue is that mnk has superior movement making it easier to break aim adhesion. As in if you have really cracked movement the controller player will not be able to kill you when playing around lots of cover.
Controller aim assist is funny, if only someone’s head is showing on a head glitch the aim assist feels super weak and sometimes non existent, but when on mnk I just have to track them best I can and because of bullet bend I normally win even when some roller player has the peak spot.
Controller relies specifically on aim assist and adhesion, where mnk has always felt more raw input… like when I’m in the zone I’m running over people even when the game expects me to lose by 80% and I pull out 22 kills and 3 deaths.
Also console vs mnk pc. Pc auto has the advantage just with frames alone making the console player feel as if you have walls. The same feeling you get when someone slides up stairs on you and you are 2 tapped the second you see their head due to cam breaking(if you don’t already know, plus peaking right is a nono because it gives enemy advantage due to cam being centered more left.) but now it’s every angle due to frame speed etc of pc.
The reason I side with mnk when thinking to play higher end pvp and controller when doing lower end things….
Pve can all be done on controller (except soloing content not ever meant to be solo’d)
i really dislike how destiny youtubers cannot make the distinction between console and pc.
pal, the jig is up. and stop using ds4 and “accessibility software”. these crucible dude have been cheating for years.
I played on both. I'm not a pro by no means.
I get more headshots on controller.
But fail to land bullets when enemies are out of range.
MnK i miss more but easily land bullets outside of my weapon range.
That’s because the farther away the target the aim assist cone falls off and you’re pure aim comes into play against a mouses natural aim which is undoubtedly better without the help of aim assist on controller.
Cronus
It maybe fair for other guns, but tracking on sniper for console when ads is way too much. Espcially when sniper have high aa, its too broken thats why mnk players are complaining.
Grapple grenade is another example, movement tech is far superior on MNK than it is on controller. It was always the supers that took advantage of this difference, but I believe strand is the first to make a subclass feel vastly different on both devices when using grapple grenade in particular.
Control can knife cancel as well
Perfection.
I grow up playing controler, and after 30, i dont have the dedication to learn mk
I wish there was a list, weapons good on controller's vs M&K
if i dont make this vid soon, remind me with another comment.
@@cammycakesgaminghave u made this video
damn, i haven't seen the camellia account in so long
been playing both since it came to pc. also been telling all the complainers that its a console controller game PORTED to pc. controller will always be easier to play with and complaining about either input just makes you look very very dumb
Controller is so much better in every way
Any Controller Bow mains out there?
Yup, I've got about 5k kills on my Swash pint of the stag lol. My main build is lucky pants with last word and a bow on gunslinger.
Yeh if you find them tell em to get rab1es.