It's funny how subjective VR is to people. Some don't mind screen door effect, some black levels, some god rays, some can't tell the difference between 80hz and 144hz. One persons "deal breaker" doesn't bother another person in the least.
Got to go with FoV … screen door doesn't bother me TOO much. I always laugh when Linus from LTT keeps hammering on about refresh rate, I don't notice that at all : )
For me I don’t care about the resolution or the refresh rate. Screen door effect is definitely a factor but not super important, for me it’s light bleed and god rays. If there’s something stopping light bleed or there’s god rays it just ruins the experience. I know those contradict each other but the quest managed to pull it off.
It's quite interesting, that people are so different in perception of all their senses. For me the 144Hz is one of the absolute best features of the Index. I'm very much into SimRacing. The increased frame rate in iRacing gives my brain 54 frames per second more to base its decisions on. And I really have the feeling that it lets me perceive better how the car behaves and moves on the track. Plus the reduced latency in milliseconds until I see my steering input as photons. For me, the switch from 90 fps of my Odyssey+ to the 144Hz of the Index is absolutely night and day. I can't go back.
I have a 2080 ti and 9700K and cant get most things to run at 144 fps or even 120 for that matter in a lot of games. Especially a driving sim, project cars 2 I have to stick to 90 fps. Are you running at very low settings and that your reaching that FPS?
High framerate takes getting used to before people notice it, but once you're used to it, and it's gone it feels sluggish, because it does make a huge difference, but I suppose our brains needs "training" to take advantage of it. Even just 100hz to 120hz is very noticable to me, but to 99% of people they just can't see a difference whatsoever.
get rid of your glasses... just try this: vroptiker.de - it is really amazing. valve index support is coming soon... never want to get back to the regular glasses in vr. yeah it's from germany, but you can order from around the world I think. just try it. It's worth it!!!
Yes you should! Worth every penny. It's not only about the lenses not touching your glasses. After a while every pair of glasses starts to irritate somewhere when wearing a headset. With this no more discomfort, a way bigger sweet spot, bigger field of view and overall way better. I will never go back to wearing glasses again. Bought mine at vroptician.com but as they are also based in Germany I guess it's the same company. Add a blue filter and your eyes are protected as well.
Pimax users had the same complaints about black levels when their HMD first released (their first round HMD's use LCD's also). Then pimax put brightness and contrast sliders in their VR software and that completely fixed this issue. So although this particular problem stems from hardware, it may well be completely fixable by a simple software update. Also be aware that VR game developers often have their games detect the platform and adjust color/gama and other visual levels to fit the panels being used. That's because there are so many different displays out there with different characteristics. The Index is so new that existing games aren't making adjustments for its display yet. And here's a link for a prescription lens provider for the Valve Index: widmovr.com/product/valve-index-prescription-lens-adapters/
@Odinson OLED is better at deep blacks and more saturated colors, but the pentile pixel arrangement of OLED screens has much more screen door effect for the same resolution and the perceived pixel density is lower than than striped LCD. While the LCD screen doesn't produce the deep blacks even with contrast and brightness sliders, the improvement in black values on the Pimax with the sliders is close enough for your brain to make the adjustment. They appear black perceptually after a few minutes of exposure.
I was worried about scratching the lenses on my vive so I bought screen protectors meant for watches, and stuck them on it. Just had to snip a bit off to match the shape of the lenses.
Thanks Ben, great review. As a 144 hz monitor user I find it somewhat hard to believe that the jump in framerate was so underwhelming. Did you do any testing to see what framerates you were experiencing in certain games?
Ben Plays VR I think higher frame rates will benefit people that get motionsick easily the most. From what I have heard it’s much harder to get motion sickness in the index compared to other headsets.
@@Krozin In his defence, the higher you go, the smaller the trade offs appear. 30 to 60 is massively noticeable whereas 60 to 120 or 144 isn't quite as noticeable due to 60 already being pretty fluid. In this case, he's going from 90 to 144, which is even less of a gap.
If you have already how do you like it? If you haven't, you should wait. Steam is taking a shit on the base stations. They have a life of anywhere from five minutes to five months. They are actually HTC base stations. The firmware is all HTC.
very good in depth review even though the lighthouses are "missing". i'm getting mine tomorrow. what i have realised though that you didn't mention what seems to be special to the index controllers what i have seen in other videos is that it matters with what strength you grip your handle. i have seen in other videos that you can like hold a stone normally and if u put more force on the grip you could smash that stone in your hand. maybe you have also experienced something like this.
I was kind of doubting this as well... I can even tell the difference between 120 and 144hz if really trying (and easily between 144 and 240) and I was like ''I can't imagine not noticing the extra smoothness with screens literally glued to your face, while it's easy to see on a normal monitor... how does that work?'' I could be totally off here, but I'm interested in how this works.
Nice review, touches on most things I've experienced, comprehensive and concise. Regarding FoV, indeed quite subjective. Since I used the Vive without glasses, at minimum eye relief and with 6mm foam, to me the new field of view in the Index was actually not drastically different. It's a slight improvement when looking around with my gaze, but looking straight ahead it's pretty much identical. For me I thought I noticed the frame-rate more, but then I came from a wireless Vive, and I already know that it introduces additional latency, I noticed this after having used it for six months and then using a wired Vive and everything felt more fluid. That said, I have it set to 144 Hz, and my PC gets to push whatever it can muster! As you mentioned, audio is insanely good. Head speakers has such an open stage I first thought I had left my speakers on! Regarding the microphones, similar reaction, a friend made zombie sounds in Arizona Sunshine and I could honestly not tell if it was him or actual zombies. It's a wonder how Valve, in their (I think) first audio solution made something that works better than any headset or microphone I've owned. If they make an audio only headset with these speakers or even just the microphones, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. My best audio solution is now a VR headset, could definitely be used for a podcast.
Having both the Index and Rift S I think the Index will be my main headset, but the Rift S for all it compromises is very close and by far the better value. For most people (casual VR player) I think the Rift S is the better choice unless they are a true enthusiast or diehard FPS player. The Rift S will get you about 85-90% of the way there, for 40% of the cost. The Index's increased FOV is nice. It not like I said, "Wow, the FOV is so wide", but I usually notice the binocular effect with other headsets. With the Index it never crossed my mind. If the price of the Index is hard to swallow, get the Rift S and don't look back. It will make you happy. If you are ok with the price the Index had is rewards including build quality (heads and shoulders above anything else), FOV, unique controllers.
I'm glad you said you didn't notice a difference at higher refresh rates. Before I bought my 144hz screen, I saw youtubers praise how big of a difference it is. I bought mine but didn't notice any difference when playing competitive csgo. I only started the notice the difference after 6 months, now i can't play without. And I notice on my desktop if its running 60hz
I'd imagine he does not have the framerate to match the refreshrate, since even a 2080ti can't handle 144fps at all times in VR in most of the games. When I've switched to to 144hz I didn't notice instantly the benefits, but then I've used my notebook that was 60hz, and noticed the difference even in windows. I've replaced my notebook with a 144hz screen also, since even browsing the internet is much much smoother on 144hz, let alone playing games. I mean the eye can only see 24 fps, so it's bullshit obviously. :>
@@nielagi5029 Some people's eyes are more sensitive to it than others. Mine are super sensitive to it, I can even tell the difference between 90 and 60 hz... 144hz was huge for me and then I got a 240hz and that's another jump. Personally my sensitivity starts to roll off around 200-220hz and it starts to become less of a conscious-ly noticeable thing and more of a subconscious feel thing, to where I can tell if it's not as high but only if I have the faster one to compare it to (i.e. if FPS drops in game from 240 constant to 200, I can tell, but if you just showed me 200hz and asked me to tell you if it was 200 or 240, I wouldn't be able to tell)
@@ny0men There are a few videos on this and so far my experience has been similar. The Index screen might be a touch better, but very similar. The tracking is very good on both with the Index being a a better overall, but the Index is still very good. If you a diehard FPS player the Index is probably the better choice. I think most people would choose the saving of the Rift S for nearly similar performance, unless they are an enthusiast. For all the complaining about the compromises made in the Rift S it very competitive especially considering less than half the price. I just got my Index yesterday and haven't yet compared black levels. The lens glare in the index is real, but usually not noticeable in normal game play, unless your in a dark scene. In dark scenes it may or may not be noticeable.
Question if you know, if I get them should I put them on opposite sides of my room or just 1 on each side of my monitor, doing that with oculus rift right now
the gasket isn't meant to be 'one size fits all' for faces. it's for people who wear glasses to give room to prevent lens on lens scratching... which is why you only get one.
To me the biggest issue is price - for what it does it doesn't sound reasonable for a grand. I use a Samsung Odyssey+ and the image quality is far beyond most headsets and it's just 250 - great blacks, no screen effect, great FOV. And even though I had reservations about the inside out head/hand tracking, this isn't an issue. I guess i'll until the true Rift successor. Thanks for the review Ben!
Maybe they will add a manual brightness and contrast correction in software the way Pimax did. It can't compare to true OLED but it does improve it and can cut good rays down too.
google 'OpenVR Advanced Settings', should find some software on github (make sure to follow any link to latest maintained version on github!) that once installed adds another setting menu to the steamvr big picture thing. (new button in the same row that has steam,desktop,etc) One of the added settings is a brightness slider. (pimax bscly just copied some of these 'advanced' settings, the OpenVR thing has been around since Vive launch)
Been waiting for a review of this thing before getting it. The biggest thing to me would probably be the black levels. I think I will get this thing. My Vive controllers decided to stop working, so if I am going to replace them, may as well be this.
ben, got my index. man... glasses are certainly more of an issue with the index than with the vive. i cant even use the same pair i used with the vive,also lose a lot of the extra FOV on the index when i manage to shove them in there and i cant use them cause they hit the lenses. ugh. other than that i agree on the back fabric needed to be modular. you nailed the FOV demonstration, i feel the same with how you showed it. do you plan on getting any sort of VR prescription lenses? i hear none of them out there are good, but i might need some. also not sure if you use fpsvr, but i was watching the framerate while i used 120hz, and i noticed the PC was still only pushing around 90 or less lol. might be a performance thing btw pass through for me was terrible for some reason, the stereo scale was way off, nothing felt right, hands looked half their size, felt like i was in a toy story movie made me ill.
Pretty sure you'll be able to see finger tracking differences when Boneworks is released. Alyx will be the true test and I'm looking forward to Valve yet again revolutionizing gaming with a Half-Life release. Hopefully sticking with the March release and just doing updates as needed afterward.
Doesn’t seem like enough of an upgrade to warrant the massive price. I might get the controllers once they have more game support but the technology doesn’t appear to have improved enough to warrant a full upgrade yet
It's a step in the right direction at least. It's a bigger upgrade than a Vive Pro and cheaper. Right now it's the goto hmd for enthusiasts. The kind of people that want the best VR currently has to offer.
@@jopo6445 Its more than 2x the price of the Rift with a marginal increase to FOV and resolution, aside from the controllers (which can be used with other HMDs) the index doesn't seem to bring anything else to the table other than resolution and FOV, which doesn't really change functionality. A $600 price increase would be insane for a 1080p TV compared to a 720p TV, which is basically all this is minus the controllers.
@@jopo6445 I agree they're taking steps in the right direction, but I don't think they've done anything worth upgrading to if you already have a Vive or a Rift. If you already have an HMD it seems like you'd be better off saving the $700 to just get the controllers.
@BenPlaysVR Do you use, or know a Display Port to Mini Display Port adapter that is confirmed to work with the INDEX? My gaming laptop 1060 GPU only offers HDMI or mini DP. Love your videos! Thanks.
@@BenPlaysVR Like you, I'm a Vive owner, though don't care about mic quality as much.... Is the INDEX good enough overall to convince you to stop using your Vive and sell it? Also, how much did the cheap & compact glasses cost, and from where? And what do you suggest for VR wire cable management for big rooms? (I couldn't find a video of your room setup) -Thanks!
I think I made the right Choice with a VivePRO+ HTCwireless paired with the index controllers on pre-order, I can never go back to wired HMD’s after tasting the freedom of wireless. Great review thx for the upload
Wireless is great, but my wireless Vive looks like poop compared to my Rift S and Index. The Vive Pro's silly price has kept me from getting one. I also want less SDE provided by the LCD panels. If the Vive Cosmos proves to have good tracking, I might get that to use my Wireless adapter with. I want wireless back , but with a high resolution low SDE panel.
I agree with RojasTKD7, can't go back to my shitty vive pro with wireless after trying the Index HMD. Well worth going back to the cable from someone that thought I would never go back to tethered.
EVOLICIOUS the index & the PRO have the same specs, the only difference is the wireless option which I’m pretty sure Valve will release in a year or so... no one that’s tried wireless would ever say they would go back to corded play, that’s like saying “VR is a gimmick like 3D TV”
@@RCrider185 I tried the vive wireless adapter, it was good when it worked. Wireless was not perfect, I kept having random grey screen issues so I had to go back to wired. I preferred consistency couldn't deal with the random grey screens, even with tech support could fine a solution for the issue.
I feel like the finger tracking has a long way to go. Not in development (though there is always room for improvement), but in implementation. Games like Pavlov are broken atm because the controllers aren’t supported. As updates come out, I feel it will start getting way better.
I agree with the black levels. I tried playing a horror game and with this headset, it's not something that I'd use to show someone VR that hasn't played a good amount of VR. I understand that it's not possible to have true blacks with an LCD headset but I really wish there was an option to turn down the brightness.
Great breakdown. I think I'll keep my current VIVE and wait for the next gen past the Index to upgrade. depending on the support I DO think I want the new controllers though.
I'm really disappointed about the black levels. Makes me consider not getting one. I wish there was a way I could try the Index to see how much it would bother me before buying it.
Many headsets are going away from OLED as one pixel is smaller than the pixels found in the likes of the Index, by moving away from OLED the screen door effect is drastically reduced. The black levels will be undoubtedly worse, but many have said that it's not a deal breaker and is easy to get used to so it's entirely up to the user.
FWIW mine doesn't seem even close to as bad as in the mockup. Maybe it varies from display to display. There's also a workaround (checking SteamVR file integrity) on the Index subreddit.
Yeah the blacks, atleast to me. Aint that bad but this might vary by each person. Hopefully you can find someone whos willing to share the experience with the device.
I was one of the first adopters of the first gen Vive. For a person that got bored of vr real fast would you think I'd enjoy the quest better the index. Quest is only 72hz vs I like the idea of 120hz
@@daylanmerritt5735 Very nice! At least we're in line for it Haha Its gonna be a good investment for sure! Lmao I'm right there wishing the same with ya... I suppose you live and you learn though, am i right? 🤣🤜💥🤛😂
When I reserved mine, the date said September. Granted I reserved it about an hour after it sold out, the day pre-order went up. I got the email a week ago and my index showed up today. You’ll probably get it before sept. :)
@@Mac-tw3zu Dang i really hope so, also all i did was click the button "reserve now" i didn't pay anything so i assume once i get an email or notification saying we have some available then i pay and they ship yeah? im assuming that's what gonna happen. I really hope i get it before september but im willing to wait. not that i have a choice though haha
The blacks aint that bad but its still not the best. I noticed the hz difference very easily and i cannot go back to 90hz but this seems varies to each person. Everything else though, atleast in my view is amazing and im loving every second of my index kit. I tried Vive pro, Vive Pro modded, Vive, Rift, Quest, and phoneVR and tbh this is the best and worth the price for euthuists but for the commoner, nah its not worth it unless you want to go straight into high end VR and the best of the best type deal. Anyway this review pretty good! Quick and snappy about how you felt about the device, and what the device brings to the table, so great job!
Interesting. I heard that the difference of frame rate higher than 90hz was hard to notice, but it seems to vary between with each person. Also, my RTX 2080 is not always constant at 90fps in VR. I wonder what card setup can give you close to 120hz (not considering frame interpolation and all that).
@@HecmarJayam It differs per person if you notice the hertz difference or not, ontop of that a 2080 should handle 144hz without any issue, just dont run it at 2,5x supersampling or whatever outlandish setting you have right now :P Im running 120hz in most games on a 1080!
@@HecmarJayam I've seen people use 1070's and play most popular vr titles at 120hz just fine. I use a 1080ti ftw3 and always play on 120hz no matter the game i play. Though i tend to bounce around the same games now (Pavlov, Climbey, Bigscreen Beta, Onward, Beat Saber modded, Blade and Sorcery, ViveCraft and H3VR. Probs some more games but those are the ones i remember at the top of my head) and everything is at default SS which i believe is 116%. (CPU - i7-8700k, GPU - 1080ti FTW3 127%oc, 32gb ram etc.)
i wonder if its possible to have a feature to just change the contrast of the black levels through software? either in the game software or the headset software.
Unfortunately because of my humongous nose, the FOV of the Index is worse than the Vive for me. The slightly larger sweetspot and higher resolution makes up for it though, but I am hoping for some custom lenses that has a bigger "cutout" for the nose.
Damn. And I thought my big nose was an issue. For me it only causes slight discomfort, but I still get an improved FOV. The Vive was also uncomfortable for my nose though
I play a lot of dark games. I have played on cheap LCD monitors and on high quality IPS monitors. The problem with deep (pure) black is you can't see anything in the shadows. The LCD acts as a sort of "night light", which allows small important items such as keys, switches to be visible in pure darkness. I play lots of custom fan-made maps/missions, and these maps are not perfect. Sometimes the maps are too dark.
@@BenPlaysVR As of recently, they added full presence for all objects in game, so hands interact the way they should, and fingers all track. Weapons can now be grabbed from anywhere, and so can people, walls, rocks... Really anything you could get your hands around. Climbing was also fully added to the game, and the kick was re-implemented. Mod support is also now a thing, which is cool.
I bought only the knuckles so far. They are awesome, expect my right trigger does awful squeaking noises after 2 hours of using it. :( Also in Arizona Sunshine the left thumb stick has some issues like I am pressing forward but in game I go left...
Huh interesting, the trigger does the same for me too, the question would be if it gets worse or how to fix it. I don't mind it that much if the trigger functions normally, even though it disrupts the sound of some games.. But sending it all back.. maybe Valve has an option just for the controllers.
Lucky Ray Yeah, that the problem, IF it gets worse, maybe after two weeks were you could lose your RMA status etc. and then you sit there with 300€ worth of useless controllers. :( I wrote a support ticket, but I don’t expect much, as I already viewed the reddit posts on the topic. When they don‘t offer a good solution before my 14 days are gone, i am gonna requests refund.
I really like the controllers, but I'll be sticking with my Vive with wireless adapter. Being tether free is so awesome. I think VR is really maturing. Looking forward to the next few years!
> I feel like we have yet to see real functionality of individual fingertracking inside games. > Like maybe we'll have an interface on our arm, and we just take our index finger and we type on a display, or something. On the Oculus Quest multiple games allow you to type on a keyboard by using your index finger. (RecRoom, BigScreen)
Great review, the one thing you and so many other reviewers seem to forget to mention is the Index's optics, how small is the sweet spot, how difficult is it to get into that sweet spot. Everyone's head shape and eyes are different, in example, I had a Vive with Deluxe Audio Strap, for me to see into the very small sweet spot of the Vive, I had to have most of the weight of the Vive resting on my nose making it incredibly uncomfortable, thus why I sold it. I am interested in the Index but want to make sure I won't have the same problem as with the Vive since I would need the full package which is quite expensive.
@@BenPlaysVR Thank you Ben, the more I hear about the small sweet spot, the less I want the Index. I think this would be a try before I buy kind of headset.
The problem with oled is that the response time from being black-black (pixels off) to any color isnt fast enuff leading to black smearing effect. I have this problem on my Samsung oddessy so ill take the LCD screen over smearing shadows
The best review for the Index yet. I have a question tho, after Oculus announced that the quest will be able to work with PC VR I am leaning much more towards getting the quest mainly because of the god rays on the index and the stupid decision to go with an LCD over OLED. I would really love if you could tell me now that you have tried both, If you could buy only one would you still purchase the Index or would you go for the Quest only? (last thing, I advise not to wash the face thingy with only water. Water actually accelerates the growth of bacteria from sweat)
Thanks! I haven't used the Oculus Link yet, but once I do I'll be sure to give my thoughts on it. For now though the Quest is really uncomfortable to wear (see my comfort mods video if you haven't) so for long play sessions the Index wins for being much much more comfortable. If I could buy only one it would be the Index 😀
@@BenPlaysVR will give that other video a watch for sure since I am considering the Quest. New to Channel Just found it today haha But wow I didn't expect you to say the Index especially after the whole problem with LCDs over OLEDs. Do you ever get over that? I mean I cant imagine flying Elite in grey space but maybe your eyes forget about it like the screen door with the old Vive? Thanks again for the great review style and for answering my question so quickly. Definitely subbing and staying 😊👍
How is it a "down side" that the frame rate wasn't really noticeable to you... I noticed it instantly so its not a downs side even if i didn't notice it, it is still and up in spec at least.
Loved your review and I am drooling so bad to get one too. Had the CV1 for over 3 years now so would love to upgrade. Unfortunately being in Australia means I can't buy the index. I must admit to wanting to wait to see the reviews of the Cosmos first before taking the next step.
Hey Ben, really enjoy your videos. I watched this review of the the Index a week or ago while I was still building a new system for my new Index. And now that is complete and I have had some time with the headset, I couldn't agree with you more about the black levels being bad. I was hoping to not share that conclusion with you and wanting it to be something I could totally live with. But it really bothers me in a lot of games. Everything seems a bit washed out and the black levels are lacking to the point I really am not sure I will keep the headset. Which is crazy to me, I have been dying for this upgrade. Games to me don't seem so grounded in reality without deep dark blacks and popping colors of an OLED screen. Curious if you have become used to it and that it isn't as big of an issue with more play time, or what? Keep up the vids. Thanks
I am getting used to it more and more. At first it was shocking but I've come to accept it because the other tradeoffs are worth it (especially the comfort). I'm hopeful that in time I won't notice anymore 😀
You know when this HMD shines it can really look good and after playing a lot more games the issue with the blacks is not so glaring to me anymore. Its definitely a weakness but in a brighter game the blacks can look good along with the color and the fov/sharpness are a huge jump in quality over vive. Certain games will never look the same, but for the majority of them I think they look really good. In Project Cars 2 the Index kills it.
Regarding black levels: Can you not adjust gamma and contrast? I have a Dell 144Hz LCD monitor, and turning the brightness down (on monitor), decreasing gamma (nvidia control panel), but increasing contrast (control panel) and digital color saturation (control panel) gives a display that is nearly OLED in terms of black levels and color saturation.
what do you think of the glare vs vive? i just got my index beginning this week and it's bothering me. also experiencing some mura compared to vive and don't know if thats normal for lcd. the duller colors and grey(ish) blacks were also a big deal for me. currently have the Vive plugged in again and thinking about returning my index hmd only.
@@BenPlaysVR mmh, for me the glare seemed worse after comparing them side by side, on the index, i can't seem to get the fit right at all, no matter what i try to reduce the glare, so i'm actually prefering the vives glare, much less distracting to me. also my index hmd has mura on both screens, so i think i'm gonna need to RMA/refund the hmd. currently just went back to my Vive hmd cuase of it not having those problems (mura isn't present at all on my vive) and i just like the colors and black from OLED more, but i also love the clarity from the Index. (if only we could have the best of both worlds in an hmd, one day)
what are your specs, if you dont mind sharing that info... i really want to do the jump in VR but not sure what kinda of upgrade i need to do for smooth VR experience by getting my self valve index in the near future and im thinking my 970 isn't enough for it :)
Valve will be bringing out 3 major VR titles including "HLVR" (likely Half Life themed!). Maybe they will utilize those fingers :D Valve has always been innovative, let's see
It's their own controller design. If they don't use it nobody will, so i'm pretty sure all Valve games will come with some kind of finger tracking implemented.
It seems that Vive Pro actually meet the good sides of both parties. It has the comfort and resolution of Index while retains the black level of the OLED panel.
Was considering upgrading from my Vive to the Index but the poor contrast LCD might be a killer for me, might just get a Vive Pro or wait for the Vive Cosmos
I had that issue with projectors. Aside of using a gray screen, sometimes I also use sun glasses wich are *slighty* dark... Yes, it will make dark the whole scene (wich may be good, as I think the brigh may be to high in some headsets), but in dark scenes you'll enjoy more the blacks, without being perfect. You would need new glasses, small and dark.
Some month later I'd like to know if you got used to the "Index-Black" and managed to forget what real black is or if you enter a dark scene the first thing on your mind is "oh my god is this an ugly black"
It's funny how subjective VR is to people. Some don't mind screen door effect, some black levels, some god rays, some can't tell the difference between 80hz and 144hz. One persons "deal breaker" doesn't bother another person in the least.
For me my non deal breaker it's fov I really don't mind only having the base vive fov
Got to go with FoV … screen door doesn't bother me TOO much. I always laugh when Linus from LTT keeps hammering on about refresh rate, I don't notice that at all : )
For me I don’t care about the resolution or the refresh rate. Screen door effect is definitely a factor but not super important, for me it’s light bleed and god rays. If there’s something stopping light bleed or there’s god rays it just ruins the experience. I know those contradict each other but the quest managed to pull it off.
As long as it has a good resolution then I'll buy it
I know I am kinda off topic but do anyone know a good place to stream newly released series online ?
Ben: There aren't many games that use this hardware.
Boneworks: I'm about to end this man's whole career
It's quite interesting, that people are so different in perception of all their senses. For me the 144Hz is one of the absolute best features of the Index. I'm very much into SimRacing. The increased frame rate in iRacing gives my brain 54 frames per second more to base its decisions on. And I really have the feeling that it lets me perceive better how the car behaves and moves on the track. Plus the reduced latency in milliseconds until I see my steering input as photons. For me, the switch from 90 fps of my Odyssey+ to the 144Hz of the Index is absolutely night and day. I can't go back.
Achieving 144 fps in the index with today's GPU's? You sure man?
@@tomar5e115 if you have a good GPU (or maybe 2 good GPUs), 144fps it's not anything out of this world
I have a 2080 ti and 9700K and cant get most things to run at 144 fps or even 120 for that matter in a lot of games. Especially a driving sim, project cars 2 I have to stick to 90 fps. Are you running at very low settings and that your reaching that FPS?
really curious of what pc hardware is if you dont mind sharing
High framerate takes getting used to before people notice it, but once you're used to it, and it's gone it feels sluggish, because it does make a huge difference, but I suppose our brains needs "training" to take advantage of it.
Even just 100hz to 120hz is very noticable to me, but to 99% of people they just can't see a difference whatsoever.
Really like how straight to the point you were and unbias.
get rid of your glasses... just try this: vroptiker.de - it is really amazing. valve index support is coming soon... never want to get back to the regular glasses in vr. yeah it's from germany, but you can order from around the world I think. just try it. It's worth it!!!
Wow, I didn't know that this was a thing! Super cool! Gonna buy it.
@@alodelore9597 yes... you won't regret it! for everyone - here's the english version of the homepage: vroptician.com/
Yes you should! Worth every penny. It's not only about the lenses not touching your glasses. After a while every pair of glasses starts to irritate somewhere when wearing a headset. With this no more discomfort, a way bigger sweet spot, bigger field of view and overall way better. I will never go back to wearing glasses again. Bought mine at vroptician.com but as they are also based in Germany I guess it's the same company. Add a blue filter and your eyes are protected as well.
@@annenouk5272 yes. thats the same company. just the english version of the homepage.
what are the benefits of this versus using contacts?
Pimax users had the same complaints about black levels when their HMD first released (their first round HMD's use LCD's also). Then pimax put brightness and contrast sliders in their VR software and that completely fixed this issue. So although this particular problem stems from hardware, it may well be completely fixable by a simple software update.
Also be aware that VR game developers often have their games detect the platform and adjust color/gama and other visual levels to fit the panels being used. That's because there are so many different displays out there with different characteristics. The Index is so new that existing games aren't making adjustments for its display yet.
And here's a link for a prescription lens provider for the Valve Index: widmovr.com/product/valve-index-prescription-lens-adapters/
@Odinson OLED is better at deep blacks and more saturated colors, but the pentile pixel arrangement of OLED screens has much more screen door effect for the same resolution and the perceived pixel density is lower than than striped LCD.
While the LCD screen doesn't produce the deep blacks even with contrast and brightness sliders, the improvement in black values on the Pimax with the sliders is close enough for your brain to make the adjustment. They appear black perceptually after a few minutes of exposure.
You didnt mit 144hz with your 1080 ti , thats why there was no difference lol
he's computer savvy lol
@@yazal9884 -- As apposed to my mortal enemy...who is a Savvy Computer!!
and WILL BE DEFEATED FOR THE FATE OF HUMANITY LIES IN THE BALANCE!!
9:36 That was an unexpectedly loud laugh xD
That's genuine joy right there 🤣👍
I was thinking the same xd¡
8:00 are you sure the game was actually running at higher framerates?
Yeah, Beat saber for sure but Windlands 2 didn't seemed to hit that framerates
I was worried about scratching the lenses on my vive so I bought screen protectors meant for watches, and stuck them on it. Just had to snip a bit off to match the shape of the lenses.
Thanks Ben, great review. As a 144 hz monitor user I find it somewhat hard to believe that the jump in framerate was so underwhelming. Did you do any testing to see what framerates you were experiencing in certain games?
Nope, I didn’t monitor framerates at all, I just went with how it felt. 😁 But in hindsight that’s a great idea!
Ben Plays VR I think higher frame rates will benefit people that get motionsick easily the most. From what I have heard it’s much harder to get motion sickness in the index compared to other headsets.
Ah, thats a good point. My point was if you were only achieving 110 fps in a game it would probably not be noticeable.
@@Krozin In his defence, the higher you go, the smaller the trade offs appear. 30 to 60 is massively noticeable whereas 60 to 120 or 144 isn't quite as noticeable due to 60 already being pretty fluid. In this case, he's going from 90 to 144, which is even less of a gap.
Looking at this thinking about getting the index. Thank you for the detailed review. Got my like.
If you have already how do you like it? If you haven't, you should wait. Steam is taking a shit on the base stations. They have a life of anywhere from five minutes to five months. They are actually HTC base stations. The firmware is all HTC.
ghost ninja
very good in depth review even though the lighthouses are "missing". i'm getting mine tomorrow. what i have realised though that you didn't mention what seems to be special to the index controllers what i have seen in other videos is that it matters with what strength you grip your handle. i have seen in other videos that you can like hold a stone normally and if u put more force on the grip you could smash that stone in your hand. maybe you have also experienced something like this.
you know you need 144fps to make 144hz matter
I was kind of doubting this as well... I can even tell the difference between 120 and 144hz if really trying (and easily between 144 and 240) and I was like ''I can't imagine not noticing the extra smoothness with screens literally glued to your face, while it's easy to see on a normal monitor... how does that work?'' I could be totally off here, but I'm interested in how this works.
You definitely notice the difference above 90hz/fps, I would think the PC being used is already at its max at 90fps.
Thanks for answering my cleaning question. It's really important when it comes to things that sit on your face for hours.
So true 😁
Nice review, touches on most things I've experienced, comprehensive and concise.
Regarding FoV, indeed quite subjective. Since I used the Vive without glasses, at minimum eye relief and with 6mm foam, to me the new field of view in the Index was actually not drastically different. It's a slight improvement when looking around with my gaze, but looking straight ahead it's pretty much identical.
For me I thought I noticed the frame-rate more, but then I came from a wireless Vive, and I already know that it introduces additional latency, I noticed this after having used it for six months and then using a wired Vive and everything felt more fluid. That said, I have it set to 144 Hz, and my PC gets to push whatever it can muster!
As you mentioned, audio is insanely good. Head speakers has such an open stage I first thought I had left my speakers on! Regarding the microphones, similar reaction, a friend made zombie sounds in Arizona Sunshine and I could honestly not tell if it was him or actual zombies. It's a wonder how Valve, in their (I think) first audio solution made something that works better than any headset or microphone I've owned.
If they make an audio only headset with these speakers or even just the microphones, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. My best audio solution is now a VR headset, could definitely be used for a podcast.
Thanks for the review, Ben! I really appreciate the insight -- especially the bits about glasses and black levels. Cheers
Great point at the end about the state of vr in 2019. What a great year!
Really appreciate this review Ben. So glad i found your channel. Keep up the great work.
Having both the Index and Rift S I think the Index will be my main headset, but the Rift S for all it compromises is very close and by far the better value.
For most people (casual VR player) I think the Rift S is the better choice unless they are a true enthusiast or diehard FPS player. The Rift S will get you about 85-90% of the way there, for 40% of the cost. The Index's increased FOV is nice. It not like I said, "Wow, the FOV is so wide", but I usually notice the binocular effect with other headsets. With the Index it never crossed my mind.
If the price of the Index is hard to swallow, get the Rift S and don't look back. It will make you happy. If you are ok with the price the Index had is rewards including build quality (heads and shoulders above anything else), FOV, unique controllers.
RojasTKD7 for me the rift s feels more comfy
copy paste I prefer the Index, but I don't find the Rift S uncomfortable.
I'm glad you said you didn't notice a difference at higher refresh rates. Before I bought my 144hz screen, I saw youtubers praise how big of a difference it is. I bought mine but didn't notice any difference when playing competitive csgo. I only started the notice the difference after 6 months, now i can't play without. And I notice on my desktop if its running 60hz
I noticed a massive difference from 60 to 144, I wonder if people see these things differently than others
i noticed it A LOT although i have a 165 hz refresh rate monitor. in my case it really helped me.
I'd imagine he does not have the framerate to match the refreshrate, since even a 2080ti can't handle 144fps at all times in VR in most of the games. When I've switched to to 144hz I didn't notice instantly the benefits, but then I've used my notebook that was 60hz, and noticed the difference even in windows. I've replaced my notebook with a 144hz screen also, since even browsing the internet is much much smoother on 144hz, let alone playing games. I mean the eye can only see 24 fps, so it's bullshit obviously. :>
@@pegton1981 are you sure it wasn't placebo? At the start I was very underwhelmed
@@nielagi5029 Some people's eyes are more sensitive to it than others. Mine are super sensitive to it, I can even tell the difference between 90 and 60 hz... 144hz was huge for me and then I got a 240hz and that's another jump. Personally my sensitivity starts to roll off around 200-220hz and it starts to become less of a conscious-ly noticeable thing and more of a subconscious feel thing, to where I can tell if it's not as high but only if I have the faster one to compare it to (i.e. if FPS drops in game from 240 constant to 200, I can tell, but if you just showed me 200hz and asked me to tell you if it was 200 or 240, I wouldn't be able to tell)
I’m sticking with my Rift S for now. Thanks Ben. Love your vids!
Same here 👍👍
I would realy like to see what Ben says about the Rift S in comparison. Maybe someone close to him can borrow him one so he can review it?
@@ny0men There are a few videos on this and so far my experience has been similar. The Index screen might be a touch better, but very similar. The tracking is very good on both with the Index being a a better overall, but the Index is still very good. If you a diehard FPS player the Index is probably the better choice.
I think most people would choose the saving of the Rift S for nearly similar performance, unless they are an enthusiast. For all the complaining about the compromises made in the Rift S it very competitive especially considering less than half the price.
I just got my Index yesterday and haven't yet compared black levels. The lens glare in the index is real, but usually not noticeable in normal game play, unless your in a dark scene. In dark scenes it may or may not be noticeable.
I would say the Rift S is one of the best headsets at the moment
I would highly reccomend the 2.0 basestations. People have measured they have just half the jitter and I can tell you it's absolutely noticeable.
So they are not vibrating and do not have a high frequenz noise ??
@@x32i77 Compared to the 1.0s I hear zero noise (I also had that high pitched whirr on the 1.0s) and they only have one motor, so half the vibration.
Question if you know, if I get them should I put them on opposite sides of my room or just 1 on each side of my monitor, doing that with oculus rift right now
@@masterkdude I would say opposite like all basestations
the gasket isn't meant to be 'one size fits all' for faces. it's for people who wear glasses to give room to prevent lens on lens scratching... which is why you only get one.
To me the biggest issue is price - for what it does it doesn't sound reasonable for a grand. I use a Samsung Odyssey+ and the image quality is far beyond most headsets and it's just 250 - great blacks, no screen effect, great FOV. And even though I had reservations about the inside out head/hand tracking, this isn't an issue. I guess i'll until the true Rift successor. Thanks for the review Ben!
@@MC-ml3cnUnfortunate and confused naming. But no. It's just VR. And it's possibly the best priced VR headset right now.
I like the Odyssey+. Instead of screen door effect, you get a slightly gritty screen effect.
Tracking us awful.
@BasedBeard Jones yes it is windows mixed reality. He's just confused about tech.
Maybe they will add a manual brightness and contrast correction in software the way Pimax did. It can't compare to true OLED but it does improve it and can cut good rays down too.
This is my hope. Right now I find games like Brookhaven to be unplayable and I think that could be fixed just by turning down the brightness.
google 'OpenVR Advanced Settings', should find some software on github (make sure to follow any link to latest maintained version on github!) that once installed adds another setting menu to the steamvr big picture thing. (new button in the same row that has steam,desktop,etc) One of the added settings is a brightness slider.
(pimax bscly just copied some of these 'advanced' settings, the OpenVR thing has been around since Vive launch)
Look at this man. He shaved his head just so he won’t get VR hair. That’s dedication, kids.
😂
Been waiting for a review of this thing before getting it. The biggest thing to me would probably be the black levels. I think I will get this thing. My Vive controllers decided to stop working, so if I am going to replace them, may as well be this.
ben, got my index. man... glasses are certainly more of an issue with the index than with the vive. i cant even use the same pair i used with the vive,also lose a lot of the extra FOV on the index when i manage to shove them in there and i cant use them cause they hit the lenses. ugh. other than that i agree on the back fabric needed to be modular.
you nailed the FOV demonstration, i feel the same with how you showed it. do you plan on getting any sort of VR prescription lenses? i hear none of them out there are good, but i might need some.
also not sure if you use fpsvr, but i was watching the framerate while i used 120hz, and i noticed the PC was still only pushing around 90 or less lol. might be a performance thing
btw pass through for me was terrible for some reason, the stereo scale was way off, nothing felt right, hands looked half their size, felt like i was in a toy story movie made me ill.
I've thought about prescription lenses but I'm a little worried about ruining the HMD during installation!
@@BenPlaysVR pretty sure its just a 3d printed cap you stick on in most cases.
Can you make a follow up to this video? A year later review.
Pretty sure you'll be able to see finger tracking differences when Boneworks is released. Alyx will be the true test and I'm looking forward to Valve yet again revolutionizing gaming with a Half-Life release. Hopefully sticking with the March release and just doing updates as needed afterward.
Will you make a rewiew of Vive Cosmos?
I won’t buy one. But if HTC sends me one I’d be happy to 😁
@@BenPlaysVR ok 😁
Fantastic review Ben, glad you mentioned Skyrim looking a milky-gray.
We need a year later update.
Doesn’t seem like enough of an upgrade to warrant the massive price. I might get the controllers once they have more game support but the technology doesn’t appear to have improved enough to warrant a full upgrade yet
It's a step in the right direction at least. It's a bigger upgrade than a Vive Pro and cheaper.
Right now it's the goto hmd for enthusiasts. The kind of people that want the best VR currently has to offer.
@@jopo6445 Its more than 2x the price of the Rift with a marginal increase to FOV and resolution, aside from the controllers (which can be used with other HMDs) the index doesn't seem to bring anything else to the table other than resolution and FOV, which doesn't really change functionality. A $600 price increase would be insane for a 1080p TV compared to a 720p TV, which is basically all this is minus the controllers.
@@jopo6445 I agree they're taking steps in the right direction, but I don't think they've done anything worth upgrading to if you already have a Vive or a Rift. If you already have an HMD it seems like you'd be better off saving the $700 to just get the controllers.
@@SacredFeline If you already have a Vive you can upgrade for $500
you said that you didnt noticed increased refresh rates, but question is if your computer could run high enough fps.
with any screen you gotta choose between smooth lcd 144hz or pure black oled at 90hz at least until samsung develops microled
Night the moon I don’t trust facebook owned technology. That’s why oculus will always be a no go for me.
oculus is not even an option when considering high end VR, so there's no need to bring it up
does more pixels mean more graphical power needed with VR?
Yes
Yep, higher resolution requires more graphical power.
Yes just like going from a 1080 monitor to 4k
Just barely runs on my fx8370/rx580.
@BenPlaysVR Do you use, or know a Display Port to Mini Display Port adapter that is confirmed to work with the INDEX? My gaming laptop 1060 GPU only offers HDMI or mini DP. Love your videos! Thanks.
Thanks! I haven’t used an adapter so I can’t confirm 😁
@@BenPlaysVR Like you, I'm a Vive owner, though don't care about mic quality as much.... Is the INDEX good enough overall to convince you to stop using your Vive and sell it? Also, how much did the cheap & compact glasses cost, and from where? And what do you suggest for VR wire cable management for big rooms? (I couldn't find a video of your room setup) -Thanks!
I think I made the right Choice with a VivePRO+ HTCwireless paired with the index controllers on pre-order, I can never go back to wired HMD’s after tasting the freedom of wireless. Great review thx for the upload
Wireless is great, but my wireless Vive looks like poop compared to my Rift S and Index. The Vive Pro's silly price has kept me from getting one. I also want less SDE provided by the LCD panels. If the Vive Cosmos proves to have good tracking, I might get that to use my Wireless adapter with. I want wireless back , but with a high resolution low SDE panel.
I agree with RojasTKD7, can't go back to my shitty vive pro with wireless after trying the Index HMD. Well worth going back to the cable from someone that thought I would never go back to tethered.
EVOLICIOUS the index & the PRO have the same specs, the only difference is the wireless option which I’m pretty sure Valve will release in a year or so... no one that’s tried wireless would ever say they would go back to corded play, that’s like saying “VR is a gimmick like 3D TV”
@@RCrider185 I tried the vive wireless adapter, it was good when it worked. Wireless was not perfect, I kept having random grey screen issues so I had to go back to wired. I preferred consistency couldn't deal with the random grey screens, even with tech support could fine a solution for the issue.
@@dmgp1f I had the same issue then I changed my PCI lane, been trouble free for 8 months now.
I’m pretty happy with finger tricking. Even if it does not add functionality it adds immersions and make gestures in social games so much easier.
I feel like the finger tracking has a long way to go. Not in development (though there is always room for improvement), but in implementation. Games like Pavlov are broken atm because the controllers aren’t supported. As updates come out, I feel it will start getting way better.
I agree with the black levels. I tried playing a horror game and with this headset, it's not something that I'd use to show someone VR that hasn't played a good amount of VR.
I understand that it's not possible to have true blacks with an LCD headset but I really wish there was an option to turn down the brightness.
Great breakdown. I think I'll keep my current VIVE and wait for the next gen past the Index to upgrade. depending on the support I DO think I want the new controllers though.
I'm really disappointed about the black levels. Makes me consider not getting one. I wish there was a way I could try the Index to see how much it would bother me before buying it.
Many headsets are going away from OLED as one pixel is smaller than the pixels found in the likes of the Index, by moving away from OLED the screen door effect is drastically reduced. The black levels will be undoubtedly worse, but many have said that it's not a deal breaker and is easy to get used to so it's entirely up to the user.
FWIW mine doesn't seem even close to as bad as in the mockup. Maybe it varies from display to display. There's also a workaround (checking SteamVR file integrity) on the Index subreddit.
Yeah the blacks, atleast to me. Aint that bad but this might vary by each person. Hopefully you can find someone whos willing to share the experience with the device.
My cv1 still works fine
😎
I wish they implemented a hardware brightness setting for the lcd backlight to deepen the black levels
I was one of the first adopters of the first gen Vive. For a person that got bored of vr real fast would you think I'd enjoy the quest better the index. Quest is only 72hz vs I like the idea of 120hz
The strap is spring loaded, so you don't need to use the adjustment knob to get the Index off.
I can't wait to actually order mine in September 😭😭😭💚
I am waiting too! makes me wish i took the opportunity to buy it pre order sense it is going to take a couple months
@@daylanmerritt5735 Very nice! At least we're in line for it Haha Its gonna be a good investment for sure!
Lmao I'm right there wishing the same with ya... I suppose you live and you learn though, am i right? 🤣🤜💥🤛😂
When I reserved mine, the date said September. Granted I reserved it about an hour after it sold out, the day pre-order went up. I got the email a week ago and my index showed up today. You’ll probably get it before sept. :)
@@Mac-tw3zu Dang i really hope so, also all i did was click the button "reserve now" i didn't pay anything so i assume once i get an email or notification saying we have some available then i pay and they ship yeah? im assuming that's what gonna happen. I really hope i get it before september but im willing to wait. not that i have a choice though haha
Haha good investment, maxing out your parents credit card.
The blacks aint that bad but its still not the best. I noticed the hz difference very easily and i cannot go back to 90hz but this seems varies to each person. Everything else though, atleast in my view is amazing and im loving every second of my index kit. I tried Vive pro, Vive Pro modded, Vive, Rift, Quest, and phoneVR and tbh this is the best and worth the price for euthuists but for the commoner, nah its not worth it unless you want to go straight into high end VR and the best of the best type deal. Anyway this review pretty good! Quick and snappy about how you felt about the device, and what the device brings to the table, so great job!
Interesting. I heard that the difference of frame rate higher than 90hz was hard to notice, but it seems to vary between with each person. Also, my RTX 2080 is not always constant at 90fps in VR. I wonder what card setup can give you close to 120hz (not considering frame interpolation and all that).
@@HecmarJayam It differs per person if you notice the hertz difference or not, ontop of that a 2080 should handle 144hz without any issue, just dont run it at 2,5x supersampling or whatever outlandish setting you have right now :P Im running 120hz in most games on a 1080!
@@suicidalbananananawhat games are you getting 120 fps on with a 1080?
@@HecmarJayam I've seen people use 1070's and play most popular vr titles at 120hz just fine. I use a 1080ti ftw3 and always play on 120hz no matter the game i play. Though i tend to bounce around the same games now (Pavlov, Climbey, Bigscreen Beta, Onward, Beat Saber modded, Blade and Sorcery, ViveCraft and H3VR. Probs some more games but those are the ones i remember at the top of my head) and everything is at default SS which i believe is 116%. (CPU - i7-8700k, GPU - 1080ti FTW3 127%oc, 32gb ram etc.)
i wonder if its possible to have a feature to just change the contrast of the black levels through software? either in the game software or the headset software.
Unfortunately because of my humongous nose, the FOV of the Index is worse than the Vive for me.
The slightly larger sweetspot and higher resolution makes up for it though, but I am hoping for some custom lenses that has a bigger "cutout" for the nose.
Damn.
And I thought my big nose was an issue. For me it only causes slight discomfort, but I still get an improved FOV. The Vive was also uncomfortable for my nose though
Do the controllers feel like it helps with immersion?
Yeah, I think so 😁
I play a lot of dark games. I have played on cheap LCD monitors and on high quality IPS monitors.
The problem with deep (pure) black is you can't see anything in the shadows.
The LCD acts as a sort of "night light", which allows small important items such as keys, switches to be visible in pure darkness.
I play lots of custom fan-made maps/missions, and these maps are not perfect. Sometimes the maps are too dark.
I believe that Blade and Sorcery has really good finger tracking as of U6, can you try it out?
I’ve reviewed an earlier version. I might revisit it 😁
@@BenPlaysVR As of recently, they added full presence for all objects in game, so hands interact the way they should, and fingers all track. Weapons can now be grabbed from anywhere, and so can people, walls, rocks... Really anything you could get your hands around. Climbing was also fully added to the game, and the kick was re-implemented. Mod support is also now a thing, which is cool.
😎
I’m a die hard vive fan and a VR lover. Should I get this?
no, get a windows mixed reality headset...jk
BRUH Just go for it. Totally worth.
I read that there is a bug regarding the black levels, that can be solved by verifying the local files of SteamVR; I'm not sure if it's the case here.
I’ll have to try that! Thanks!
I bought only the knuckles so far. They are awesome, expect my right trigger does awful squeaking noises after 2 hours of using it. :( Also in Arizona Sunshine the left thumb stick has some issues like I am pressing forward but in game I go left...
Huh interesting, the trigger does the same for me too, the question would be if it gets worse or how to fix it. I don't mind it that much if the trigger functions normally, even though it disrupts the sound of some games.. But sending it all back.. maybe Valve has an option just for the controllers.
Lucky Ray Yeah, that the problem, IF it gets worse, maybe after two weeks were you could lose your RMA status etc. and then you sit there with 300€ worth of useless controllers. :( I wrote a support ticket, but I don’t expect much, as I already viewed the reddit posts on the topic. When they don‘t offer a good solution before my 14 days are gone, i am gonna requests refund.
Is there about the same space for the glasses like in the Vive? My glasses worked for the Vive.
Contacts?
I really like the controllers, but I'll be sticking with my Vive with wireless adapter. Being tether free is so awesome. I think VR is really maturing. Looking forward to the next few years!
the controllers are compatible with the vive
@@scraskin Yep. I'll probably grab them when Boneworks launches.
I really wish you were able to compare this to the Oculus Rift S But you didn’t have one on hand. It’s because I’m trying to decide between the two...
Would I be wrong for wanting my joysticks to make an audible click if I spent that much money on them?
> I feel like we have yet to see real functionality of individual fingertracking inside games.
> Like maybe we'll have an interface on our arm, and we just take our index finger and we type on a display, or something.
On the Oculus Quest multiple games allow you to type on a keyboard by using your index finger. (RecRoom, BigScreen)
I think he meant more like having specific functionality tied to specific fingers, to allow a more complex UI interaction (less menu tiering, etc)
Great review, the one thing you and so many other reviewers seem to forget to mention is the Index's optics, how small is the sweet spot, how difficult is it to get into that sweet spot. Everyone's head shape and eyes are different, in example, I had a Vive with Deluxe Audio Strap, for me to see into the very small sweet spot of the Vive, I had to have most of the weight of the Vive resting on my nose making it incredibly uncomfortable, thus why I sold it. I am interested in the Index but want to make sure I won't have the same problem as with the Vive since I would need the full package which is quite expensive.
Good point! I find the sweet spot to be similar to the Vive. It takes some adjusting but once I find that I’m good to go. And quite comfortable.
@@BenPlaysVR Thank you Ben, the more I hear about the small sweet spot, the less I want the Index. I think this would be a try before I buy kind of headset.
Great video thanks for your honest review. Looking forward to purchasing a high-end VR HMD
Awesome job Ben! Keep up with hard work!
Does anyone know if the valve index controllers can be used with the original vive??
Yes they can!
just ordered mine cant wait until next weekend!
Congrats!! 🎉
Excellent video! Do you think an RTX 2060 laptop with an i7 8750H would be able to run the index well??
Thanks! I’d hate to guess about that since I’m not 100% certain. But it does require display port 😁
Getting mine in 8-4 days... can't wait
The problem with oled is that the response time from being black-black (pixels off) to any color isnt fast enuff leading to black smearing effect. I have this problem on my Samsung oddessy so ill take the LCD screen over smearing shadows
Good review ... can u tell what gpu u r using; just to get a sense as to whether GPU upgrade may help with refresh rate!!
Thanks! PC specs are on the channel About page: bitly.com/2RZpf8C
Thanks for the info here. I was hoping for deeper blacks in ED and Arizona Sunshine
How do you take a screenshot using Valve controllers and a Vive headset?
The best review for the Index yet. I have a question tho, after Oculus announced that the quest will be able to work with PC VR I am leaning much more towards getting the quest mainly because of the god rays on the index and the stupid decision to go with an LCD over OLED.
I would really love if you could tell me now that you have tried both, If you could buy only one would you still purchase the Index or would you go for the Quest only?
(last thing, I advise not to wash the face thingy with only water. Water actually accelerates the growth of bacteria from sweat)
Thanks! I haven't used the Oculus Link yet, but once I do I'll be sure to give my thoughts on it. For now though the Quest is really uncomfortable to wear (see my comfort mods video if you haven't) so for long play sessions the Index wins for being much much more comfortable. If I could buy only one it would be the Index 😀
@@BenPlaysVR will give that other video a watch for sure since I am considering the Quest. New to Channel Just found it today haha
But wow I didn't expect you to say the Index especially after the whole problem with LCDs over OLEDs. Do you ever get over that?
I mean I cant imagine flying Elite in grey space but maybe your eyes forget about it like the screen door with the old Vive?
Thanks again for the great review style and for answering my question so quickly. Definitely subbing and staying 😊👍
How is it a "down side" that the frame rate wasn't really noticeable to you... I noticed it instantly so its not a downs side even if i didn't notice it, it is still and up in spec at least.
Loved your review and I am drooling so bad to get one too. Had the CV1 for over 3 years now so would love to upgrade. Unfortunately being in Australia means I can't buy the index. I must admit to wanting to wait to see the reviews of the Cosmos first before taking the next step.
Very clear review that considers the VR software in mind - thanks:D
waiting for it to be available in norway, but i doubt itll ever happen.
Can you describe your pc build used? I’m thinking of getting a new rig and wanna see how I should build my rig
PC specs are on the channel About page: bitly.com/2RZpf8C
Hey Ben, really enjoy your videos. I watched this review of the the Index a week or ago while I was still building a new system for my new Index. And now that is complete and I have had some time with the headset, I couldn't agree with you more about the black levels being bad. I was hoping to not share that conclusion with you and wanting it to be something I could totally live with. But it really bothers me in a lot of games. Everything seems a bit washed out and the black levels are lacking to the point I really am not sure I will keep the headset. Which is crazy to me, I have been dying for this upgrade. Games to me don't seem so grounded in reality without deep dark blacks and popping colors of an OLED screen. Curious if you have become used to it and that it isn't as big of an issue with more play time, or what? Keep up the vids. Thanks
I am getting used to it more and more. At first it was shocking but I've come to accept it because the other tradeoffs are worth it (especially the comfort). I'm hopeful that in time I won't notice anymore 😀
You know when this HMD shines it can really look good and after playing a lot more games the issue with the blacks is not so glaring to me anymore. Its definitely a weakness but in a brighter game the blacks can look good along with the color and the fov/sharpness are a huge jump in quality over vive. Certain games will never look the same, but for the majority of them I think they look really good. In Project Cars 2 the Index kills it.
Have you tried 1 day contacts? They are super awesome for VR!
Nope, maybe I should!
@@BenPlaysVR Try the Total Dailies by Alcon, thank me later ;)
Going from an OG vive, would you get a vive pro or index?
Regarding black levels: Can you not adjust gamma and contrast? I have a Dell 144Hz LCD monitor, and turning the brightness down (on monitor), decreasing gamma (nvidia control panel), but increasing contrast (control panel) and digital color saturation (control panel) gives a display that is nearly OLED in terms of black levels and color saturation.
what do you think of the glare vs vive?
i just got my index beginning this week and it's bothering me.
also experiencing some mura compared to vive and don't know if thats normal for lcd.
the duller colors and grey(ish) blacks were also a big deal for me.
currently have the Vive plugged in again and thinking about returning my index hmd only.
Personally I found the glare very similar to the Vive
@@BenPlaysVR mmh, for me the glare seemed worse after comparing them side by side, on the index, i can't seem to get the fit right at all, no matter what i try to reduce the glare, so i'm actually prefering the vives glare, much less distracting to me.
also my index hmd has mura on both screens, so i think i'm gonna need to RMA/refund the hmd.
currently just went back to my Vive hmd cuase of it not having those problems (mura isn't present at all on my vive) and i just like the colors and black from OLED more, but i also love the clarity from the Index. (if only we could have the best of both worlds in an hmd, one day)
what are your specs, if you dont mind sharing that info... i really want to do the jump in VR but not sure what kinda of upgrade i need to do for smooth VR experience by getting my self valve index in the near future and im thinking my 970 isn't enough for it :)
PC specs are on the channel About page: bitly.com/2RZpf8C 😁
I appreciate your blunt review! 👍
Valve will be bringing out 3 major VR titles including "HLVR" (likely Half Life themed!). Maybe they will utilize those fingers :D Valve has always been innovative, let's see
It's their own controller design. If they don't use it nobody will, so i'm pretty sure all Valve games will come with some kind of finger tracking implemented.
It seems that Vive Pro actually meet the good sides of both parties. It has the comfort and resolution of Index while retains the black level of the OLED panel.
But the selling point of the index is the FOV, and refresh rate, not so much the resolution.
well, then the index is a step in the wrong direction. image quality is the only thing that matters vs a slightly higher refresh rate
Next vr game should be titan fall 3
What are your thoughts on the base stations constantly taking a shit?
What about videos vr quality streaming online compare to oculus rift S? Thank you
Was considering upgrading from my Vive to the Index but the poor contrast LCD might be a killer for me, might just get a Vive Pro or wait for the Vive Cosmos
did you get the vive pro?
I had that issue with projectors. Aside of using a gray screen, sometimes I also use sun glasses wich are *slighty* dark... Yes, it will make dark the whole scene (wich may be good, as I think the brigh may be to high in some headsets), but in dark scenes you'll enjoy more the blacks, without being perfect. You would need new glasses, small and dark.
is it possible to disable/remove the side speakers? i live with people and i literally wont be able to own it if you cant disable them
There is an optional headphone jack: www.tomshardware.com/news/valve-index-vr-headset-facts-specs-price,39478.html
Why only 720p? 😕
Some month later I'd like to know if you got used to the "Index-Black" and managed to forget what real black is or if you enter a dark scene the first thing on your mind is "oh my god is this an ugly black"
You should revisit jet island with the index controllers :)
Great idea!!
Thanks for the honest review Ben