David Elliott talks about the P2 cylinder monobloc.
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- Опубликовано: 20 ноя 2022
- With the monobloc for No. 2007 nearly finished, David Elliot gives us a guided tour round this intricate fabrication. If you want to see Prince of Wales at S&D 200 in 2025, you can do so by joining this amazing project here www.a1steam.com/p2donation#/
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![Antique Vertical Steam Engine - Part 1 [Restoration]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ucRF42U_ZFk/mqdefault.jpg)
Proper mechanical engineering at it's finest....love it! Excellent presentation and camerawork too.
A very good piece of work.
I'm not even British and yet I'm still very excited for them to finish this P2.
No one thinks that steam locomotive engineering is modern or in need of top quality designers and production capabilities. You knocked that idea and thoughts out the park, out the county and over the border. A fantastic way to show what modern engineering capabilities can do to improve anything in our life. This just happens to be a steam locomotive. I doubt if the Rugby test plant would cope with the power the P2 will put on the rails. Excellent presentation and production of the video. A very proud team including the designers, casting, fabrication and machining companies, created this one part. Wow.
I'm a mechanical design and production engineer and my jaw was on the floor for a good part of this video. Hats off to the teams responsible for getting this together. Just wow.
even if i tried i could not come close to praise the entire team and everyone involved enough for the work that has been done so far, i can only say very well done all across the board, i hope that the rest of the work will go as planed moving forward.
With such high quality engineering a suit and tie seems entirely appropriate! 😊
This casting is a peice of art
Excellent commentary David and a fantastic piece of Engineering for the P2.
a most impressive work piece produced with modern technology and design aids.... David Elliot's presentation is superb too: narrated in a clear, well articulated voice concise and comprehensive at the same time...the 3D printed valve model lifts design & development to the next level....
Engineering like this goes on everyday, it isn't until it belongs to a steam engine that people outside of industrial machining get to see what can be done. And it is mind blowing!
Truly Magnificent a credit to you all,
Must have welders and machinists at the top of their game to make that wonderful fabrication. Top class work.
Work of Art
@@lioncurlew Also amazing that the whole fabrication can be pictured mentally and then turned into CAD files
This is just the sort of technical explanation that I enjoy the most. First class educational presentation. Everyone involved with the project should be very proud.
To help us achieve this you can support the build here: www.a1steam.com/p2donation#/
That bit of engineering is a work of art
My father would have been so proud to see this casting so beautifully machined in the UK. He taught foundry practice in the Black Country but most castings were for cars etc and much smaller!
An amazing engineering marvel, testament to the skill and craftsmanship of all involved. If the modern CAD tools and computer modelling were available to the previous designers and engineers imagine what they could have produced. Please share more videos of this stunning project as it will raise the profile to supporters who are yet to help the fund raising effort.
That's the paradox
Incredible piece of engineering and fabrication... would love to come see it in action sometime. :)
What a fantastic bit of British engineering 👍🏻🏴
To help us achieve this you can support the build here: www.a1steam.com/p2donation#/
This is all Grade 1 top class engineering and these videos should all be required viewing for schoolkids to get them enthused about real world jobs.
Getting Media Studies degrees isn't the way to go kids!
The quality of that machining is just exemplary. Well done all concerned.
Absolutely agree. This is the kind of quality I was used to seeing before I retired - worked 40 years at Rolls-Royce plc on aero gas turbine design and development.
Kudos to all concerned massive piece of superb Scottish engineering
As you say, Howco of Irvine have played a blinder with the monobloc. When was the last three-cylinder monobloc was made in the UK? To help us finish this you can support the build here: www.a1steam.com/p2donation#/
He explains so well, it is a joy to listen to it. 😊
Dear David, Daniela and Edward, many thanks for putting this excellent exposition together to show off your hard work. Lovely to see the cylinder block build coming on. Some challenging geometry and tolerancing in there on a fabricated structure. Please could you do some more detail on the design and manufacturing techniques, and programme management? - it is simply marvellous being able to see it and hear you talk about it! Keep up the good work! You'll soon have a fire in it! All the best, Dave
To help us achieve this you can support the build here: www.a1steam.com/p2donation#/
Great explanation of a complex module, well done. The 3d models were good to visualise the explanation. Looking forward to more of these.
I got to agree with the other commenters, CAD tools are a game changer in projects like this. That as well as the latest techniques in casting and machining , using the latest materials available today, makes these newbuild projects slightly better than the original.
One unintended consequence of the CAD work on the locomotive is the digital preservation of the original blueprints. As paper (and sometimes cloth) blueprints age to the point of being untouchable, digitalizing these is the only viable way to preserve them and making them accessible to the public at large.
With this new development, we can't wait for the P2 to run the rails as well as other newbuild steam locomotives as well, like Pennsylvania Railroad T1 5550 in the US.
Just WOW! This is seriously impressive. Back in the day when these were originally being designed, all they had were slide rules, log tables and graph paper.
This is being done with modern CAD programs, stress strain analysis software, CNC cutting and machining, no doubt some laser scanning technology in there as well. Yet with all this assistance, its still a mind boggling undertaking.
Its 1 thing to resurrect an extinct class of locomotive, going off the original drawings. Its quite another to do all that, but to also redesign certain aspects that were causing the original examples to under perform. You have some seriously clever people working on this!
Thankyou for bringing us along for the ride 😀
This, is a huge step. Towards finally hearing the heart beat of one of the greatest British machines to ever ride the steel highway.
Incredible Expertise and Foresight, Amazing Engineer.
An excellent example of fine work that's "greater than the sum of its parts". Can't wait to see this in action! WOW!!!
Wow, can not wait to see it in steam. I am a CNC machinist, I can appreciate the work here! Awesome! 😃
To help us achieve this you can support the build here: www.a1steam.com/p2donation#/
Thank you. Impressive redesign and fabrication.
Ground breaking stuff here, cant congratulate the work that's been going on enough. the p2 was such a good choice !.
Wow, a great update. It will be amazing to see it in action
It lifted the fire off of the grate?!! Wow. Nicely revised design with less wasted energy. So very complicated yet precisely simple in concept. What a casting!!!
It's a fabrication! 😉 However, thank you for the compliment.
Yes, I saw the many, many stacked welds after the fact. Incredible piece.
Excellent explanation, truly fascinating.
Excellent presentation. I hope this format will be continued in the next video. I hope Mr Elliot continues as the commentator in future productions.
I must say the whole project is a fantastic effort to resurrect a unique locomotive.
Bravo, to all involved with such a mammoth project.
To help us achieve this you can support the build here: www.a1steam.com/p2donation#/
I hope some day the detailed design and engineering would be published for every aspect. Thank you.
That is one very nice piece of steam engineering. Love the double poppet seat valve design.
Absolutely fantastic, great explanation and video!!!
I can’t believe these skills exist, makes me proud !
A very complex mechanical engineering project wonderfully explained. The work done to design and produce this cylinder monobloc really is excellent. To me it demonstrates that there were major improvements still to be made to steam locomotives to improve their efficiency at the time that they were being scrapped. Best wishes for the rest of the project to the team concerned.
Fascinating! That is some high quality engineering....
Fantastic walk and talk through, David and team. Thank you and I loved the choice of music to introduce such a marvel in engineering. Bravo on everything achieved so far. She’s seriously going to be the GT model of steam traction!
To help us achieve this you can support the build here: www.a1steam.com/p2donation#/
This is a stunning piece of work, all the way from CAD to final machining- a real, jumbo size "we can do it" and a huge feather in Howco's cap, too.
REALLY looking forward to the realization process for the camboxes, now.
congrats that cylinder block is a thing of beauty delighted it was made local to me
Fantastic, thanks for that detailed run down!
I must say that it’s great that FINALLY you are doing good videos but now with excellent explanation. Just please don’t make this a one-off. Many thanks and best wishes. I look forward to the next one.
'Well done David,you should be given an award for your contribution to not only this locomotive,but to 'Tornado' also. Engineering has been in a long period of decline in this country and it is people like you who raise its profile, and inspire the next generation of young engineers.
I only understood about 23% of what he said. Being a person of somewhat higher intellect I am amazed at the realms of knowledge that some people possess that I do not. That said, I am fascinated by watching these people speak with knowledge about these mysteries hidden behind the green curtain. It's soothing to listen to this man discussing the inner workings of this valve block and comment casually "...as you will be well aware...." and then expound on some facet that I obviously am not aware. Fascinating.
What a work of art that is.
Excellent presentation by David Elliott,he made everything so clear and easy to understand.
Tremendous work by everyone, another big step made in this project, can't wait to see it complete and in the stunning Apple green.
I like to think that I know how everything works on a steam loco but honestly I haven't got a clue haha 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Great explanation though but all far too complicated for my brain to process lol. 👍👍👍
Any idea when the boiler may arrive ?
The boiler is scheduled to arrive this winter, then we'll have our work cut out! To help us achieve this you can support the build here: www.a1steam.com/p2donation#/
Myself included, I thought I knew how locos worked. I have worked in a foundry as a metallurgist but cannot comprehend how that casting was made. Just shows the UK isn't just a nation of shopkeepers and we can still make stuff.
I found that very interesting and look forward to more !
Fascinating piece of steam locomotive technology. Videography, editing and presentation was superb. Really wish for more content like this
To help us achieve this you can support the build here: www.a1steam.com/p2donation#/
Wonderful in all details - bravo, bravissimo!
An amazing piece of engineering. Can't wait to see it in operation!
That beauty deserved much brighter lighting. Future videos would benefit from LED flashlights and worklights placed inside complex parts to better highlight features.
Fantastic video. Thanks for sharing.
Cannot wait to see a proper P2
www.a1steam.com/educational-resources/prince-of-wales/design-study
Just brilliant.
brilliant engineering
Excellent explanation appreciated
Very good…….more vids needed 👍.
An excellent video. So clear in explanation! And what amazing engineering and manufacture is involved in this. I'm so looking forward to seeing the P2 working. 🙂
To help us achieve this you can support the build here: www.a1steam.com/p2donation#/
@@thep2steamlocomotivecompan19 Done!
So that’s how steam poppet valves work.
Only been wondering for the last 50 years or so!
I’m impressed that you didn’t just copy the flawed original design. How is the lead lag of the valve timing accommodated with this design?My only experience is with 5” live steam models and that’s a big enough faff.
My mate Ed works there.
When Prince of Wales is complete, would You mind to make a Steam Rail Tour of Europe by Aberdeen-Edinburgh-Glasgow-London-Paris-Basel-Zurich-Vienna-Prague-Warsaw-Berlin- Mukran-Sweden-Stockholm-Copenhagen-Hamburg-Amsterdam and back? What about a funding club for some " Fake Teak" Coaches made of steel or carbon / aluminium with wood interior?
I still don’t understand why a fleet of brand new locomotives could not be constructed fired by bio fuel or gas. They are cheaper than a diesel electric by a long way and powerful at low speed. Fantastic achievement and great education from this video.
It's a nice thought, but I think it was the maintenance costs that killed steam. The accountants wanted something where you could just climb into the cab and turn a key ... on preserved railways of course you get a lot of that labour free.
The steam engine loco needs an even bigger update - I envisage two steam-powered bogies connected to the steam source via a flexible couplings. Each bogie can have a pair of cylinders. It would have four driving axles but no unpowered axles. The water and coal tender would also have two bogies with the water tank connected to the drivers cabin via a flexible coupling. The fire box, steam tubes and drivers cabin would have a frame to link them to the bogies. We could have a conveyor to transfer coal to the engine and another mechanism to feed coal into the fire box.
David, a detailed description of the camboxes themselvs and their operation would be very welcome. I understand from your description that you are going for oscillating cams rather than rotary cams as per the prototype.
This is like making a dead person alive but with steam locomotives
After several minutes of describing how complicated it all is " to add to the complexity..."
One piece casting was how North American locomotive cylinder blocks were cast, some were cast with part of the locomotive frame. The downside is that replacement would be prohibitively expensive.
I found this explanation of the cylinder block absolutely fascinating, an engineering marvel, thank you ✅👍😊
It would be nice to see a animated video showing the 3rd cylinder and its piston driving the crank shaft of the driving axel. There is absolutely no images of this on other model engines and only descriptions on forums. It would be nice to have a clear idea on how this actually works.
...and a short visit to Meiningen Steam locomotive works where the boiler comes from, of course!
David forgive me, closer inspection of the 3D drawing reveals that the inner valves are driven extended rocker shafts from the outer rotary cambox. It was the term rocker shaft that made me jump to the wrong conclusion vis a vis oscillating cams.
Wonderful work! I'm curious what kind of pressure the exhaust valve flange gaskets will see?
that shaking god damn
Wow. What a piece of engineering. If you can do that,the NRM can get the V2 back on the road.
Will this new design on Monoblock be put forward towards Green Arrow’s overhaul.. If the NRM announce one
Another Gresley classic that should be on the main line
Hello Dave From Aotearoa. Long time no see. Frank.
Wow now that is a great piece of kit to cast. Well done everyone. Looking forward to seeing her steam soon I hope
Watched the video curious to see whether the monobloc was made in the UK. I had never heard of the company in Scotland which manufactured it and was mentally speculating whether it was manufactured by Sheffield Forgemasters.
A brand new poppet valve gear locomotive!
Lets whats the difference between the current modern poppet valve gear, The Duke," and the redesigned one using new understanding in thermodynamics and a healthy dose of computer aided drafting and cnc machining.
Very good video of this excellent mechanical work.
Welded steel fabrication makes a good replacement to cast iron as shown.
I am not sure of the advantages of the poppet valve over the piston valve.
The piston valve is the simpler but still effective method of steam control so I assume there must be
more precise timing with the poppet valve.
It is easy to deal with a greater volume of steam by making the piston valve and ports bigger so the poppet valve
must be for precise timing I guess?
I have great admiration for the team undertaking this project.
Walschaerts gear is still a compromise that chokes the exhaust events. Poppet valve gear like this allows a completely free exhaust and thus reduces back-pressure. Take a look at the design study for more information:
www.a1steam.com/educational-resources/prince-of-wales/design-study
@@thep2steamlocomotivecompan19 Many thanks for your reply. I shall look at the design of the Walscherts actuation diagram .
I feel a piston valve is a very simple method of controlling the flow of gases and used to good effect on steam engines , petrol and diesel engines.
The actuation of the piston valve can be achieved by a variety of ways such as eccentrics, cams, etc.
The poppet valve is very good for modest volumes and becomes a choke for bigger volumes such as large Marine Diesel engines.
Presumably the poppet valve for steam locos was not a success and not used widely
I am not up to speed on this topic ad appreciate your feed back.
Many years back I was with Ruston in Lincoln when they were designing the AT range of Marine diesel engines.
They went with fabricated design for the crank cases , cylinder blocks etc which was a success saving weight and machining time.
I must say you have made a good job of your P2 cylinder block.
Changing the topic. I never understood the benefits of more than two cylinders for a non condensing steam engine ?
Is there any weight difference between the new steel monoblock and a similar cast iron monoblock?
AS THIS IS MY FIRST VEWING OF YOUR VIDEO ARE THERE OTHERS IN REGARDING
THIS CYLINDER ASSEMBLY?
IS THIS VALVE SYSTEM USED WITH THE FRANKLIN VALVE GEAR??
Take a look at the design study for more information:
www.a1steam.com/educational-resources/prince-of-wales/design-study
nice jacket
Are those Tornados spare wheels in the background?
No, they are the tender wheels for No. 2007.
No bodging here!
anyone know the song from the intro?
Would it be possible to do a video on how the Lentz valve gear works? because I cannot find a good animation on how it works and I'll be honest, I am struggling to visualize what you're trying to say, even with the 3D photo of the cam boxes. I think a nice video on the valve gear would help people like me who are both mechanically minded, but understand best with a visual demonstration of the parts. Overall though, this is so fascinating the engineering that went into this cylinder bloc
You can always join the Monobloc Club and gain unrivalled access to the machining and installation of the cylinders which should answer all your questions, it very had to describe the way in which the valve gear works without being able to look at it. To help us achieve this you can support the build here: www.a1steam.com/p2donation#/
When’s this loco going to be completed?
2025 at the latest if we can make it so, sooner if the funds are available. To help us achieve this you can support the build here: www.a1steam.com/p2donation#/
I would wish they would bring back LNER J50!...
There's one vital thing missing.... Vtec!!
WOW WOW WOW, you actually made the cylinder block for Grezza,s Grunter!!!!, complete with Caprotti rotary poppet valves, a beautiful piece of engineering, I have that in my sitting room with the telly on top . Must display the block at the Tate Modern for a short time in order to raise more funds and get Grezza,s P2 Grunter boiling chuffing and hissing. Do you have the licence to make more cylinder blocks in both Caprotti and Walschearts form ? . The double beat valve shown in the video looks like a 1930,s Dunlop aeroplane wheel, similar to those of an Auster or Tiger Moth. My kind of educational video, informative well presented and cannot wait to see Grezza,s Grunter chuffing puffing on the rails with a nice rake of teak carriages, Piglet will have an orgasm and a fit.
May a Yank ask a question?? This appears to be a single-expansion locomotive, with the exhaust from each of the 3 cylinders being immediately sent up the smoke-stack (chimney). Is that correct??
Yes, 3 identical cylinders. Compounding was not popular in the UK, the LMS (London, Midland, Scottish) did design compound locos but it wasn't general practice. The GWR (Great Western Railway) built 4 cylinder locos with two cylinders inside and 2 on the outside, but not compounded, but 2 or 3 cylinders were the more common. Done routinely in the marine world with triple and quadruple expansion engines. I think some export Beyer-Garrets were compounds?
A good test for some students would be to design a working steam valve gear without using a computer😮
Superb engineering but qhat is the RA ? a lot of heritage railways couldn't run this beast due to it's weight ?
Designed for main line use I would think, like the original P2's. A lot of heritage railways probably couldn't run a Stanier Pacific, the A1, a Merchant Navy, a King or the DoG either.
A significant number of preserved or heritage railways have made use of RA9 locomotives so 2007 ought to be able to visit lines in a similar manner to Tornado.
RA9