I used to use those exact paints for years. The trick to those paints are to pick up Liquitex matte medium and Liquitex flow aid. Flow aid is to thin the consistency paint and make it flow better, do not use water, you will break the binders easily in the cheaper paint. Using matte medium to make the paint more translucent, for layer painting or glazes. These are great paints for most painters! I've recently switched to army painter fanatics paint since I have more money now to spend on it, although I still use matte medium and flow aid from the stuff I've picked up from the cheap paints. I've also worked in speed paint medium into my toolkit now.
Good to know about the Liquitex flow aid, thanks! I'm really excited to try out the Army Painter Fanatics stuff, lots of people have recommended it in the comments so I'm definitely going to do a comparison video between that and Citadel! Thanks for the advice!
Everything Citadel sells is overpriced, and their paint is no better than Vallejo or Army Painter. I cannot support anything they do, as their constant price gouging and unnecessary changes that always result in them getting more money proves they don't have any respect for anyone, especially their fans.
In Citadel's defense, not everything is downright bad, even if still overpriced. Contrast paints are still visibly better than alternatives, especially the AP SpeedPaints which are just bizarre to use despite fixing the most visible issues (like reactivation as if it was oil paint for the poor). Same with select few technical paints (Blood for the Blood God is still the best for acrylic-based blood effects, same with Nurgle's Rot for slime effect - suggested alternatives from Vallejo (for example) are in fact very good complimentary paints, just not substitutes!). Shade paints of other manufacturers are quickly catching up and even surpassed MOST of the Citadel's range (+ oil paints are becoming a standard thing again that is superior effect-wise for shading anyway). But you are 100% right on most of the standard range from Citadel. Their whites in particular are just awful IN ADDITION to the typical bad white pigment coverage.
@@DrAhzek You're the only person I've ever heard who actually thinks Contrast Paints are better than Speed Paints. Contrast Paints are very inconsistent, the paint pots suck, and they're too expensive. What aspects of AP Speedpaints are "bizarre?" I'm really talking about Citadel screwing over fans by changing free lexicons to forcing them to be purchased, eliminating armies, nerfing/buffing armies, etc... Hell, they even changed some of their washes without telling anyone. They price gouge every opportunity they get, so even if their paints were better than Vallejo and/or AP, I will not support Citadel in any way. They have no ethics and they take advantage of their own fans.
Great Video! I could really see the difference when you were applying the gold paint, it looked painful. You do make a great point about the higher costs being justified by being more enjoyable to paint and I don't think a lot of people consider it. However, I still find the white GW paints to be really lacking. It could be interesting to compare specific GW paints to different brands to find better alternatives. Your video and editing is really clean but I think it could be worth just taking more time with the audio as it seems pretty inconsistent across your videos. Definitely worth a subscribe though!
Thanks a bunch for your feedback and support, I genuinely appreciate it and will take it to heart; actively working on solving the audio problems! I agree with you, some GW stuff really is garbage and I'm definitely interested in doing another video like this with other paint brands to see what it looks like. Again, thanks so much for the great feedback, really appreciate it!!!
I use sargent acrylic 1 gallons mix them down with some flow aid and matt medium or pva. Once you get a good consitancy its compareable to the other paints. You just need to know a little bit about the formulas that the big companies are using. For exampme when making washes i use equal parts flow aid and alcohol with desired amount of pigment from a few drops of acrylic paint. You can also use some Dawn dish soap(washing up liquid) just a few drops to imrove dispertion.
I really appreciate the video also was caught by the curve ball at the start. I thought you would just bash on the citadel paint but instead of that you elaborated and explained the different aspects that affect the price. To leave some feedback for the video beside the low volume which was already mentioned. In some comparison shots the lighting looked very different which makes it hard to really compare. The pauldron painting is a good example (3:55) and an exmaple that was very good in my opinion, the shield painting was very comparable lighting-wise and I could really see the problems and struggle with the cheap paint. Edit: I also really appreciate the short and sweet intro for your channel.
Thanks a bunch! I really appreciate those thoughts on the video. I was trying to be as objective as possible and I'm really glad it resonated with you!!! Thank you so much for the feedback as well. I am actively working on the audio problem and I appreciate the comments about lighting as well. I think my camera likes to try and correct focus and light as I'm recording so I'll need to be more aware in the future. It was really obvious in this video given the side-by-side shots! Again, thanks so much for your feedback and support, really means a ton!
Im sold on AK 3rd gen intense serie and vallejo. But also using monument hobby white and burned red. Citadel retributor armor, mephiston red and contrast paint are totally worth it
Agree re: Mephiston Red. I might buy it again but this time transfer to a dropper bottle and not keep it on the Citadel paint pots that seemed designed to 'help' the paints inside dry up before their time.
I’d love to see a review of paints like the liquitex or golden paints that are better quality stuff and still cheaper than the pro brands. There’s a liquitex fluid line that I would really like to try somewhere in the future.
Definitely could be worth a try! I've never tried that brand but if the worst problem you encounter is bad coverage you can make up for it with some time investment, could be worth it!
I've been getting more and more into artist acrylics, specifically Golden. The jars/bottles are larger and so cost more but ppml is on par with Pro Acryl.
@@herossongstudio The Golden So-flat are especially popular with a lot of painters who are on yt like Vince Ventrella, Ninjon, Miniac and others. The high-flow line is Golden airbrush ready. Better learn to mix colors as you don't get 20 diff shades of blue, red, etc but they are better than any hobby paint in existence
I used to paint a lot with FW acrylic inks over a white primer, works a lot like contrast paints. Maybe add a bit of acrylic medium to the ink to make it easier to handle.
I think Citadel colours are very nice to work with. I use Scale 75 metal alchemy as well, Pro Acryl , Two Thin Coats, Speedpaint 2.0 , Vallejo XPress . I am not dogmatic about this only because its citadel. Some of the base and layer paints, some of their contrasts and some of their technical colours are absulutely amazing.
Thanks a bunch for the feedback! Apologies about the volume, my microphone needs an upgrade... I'd love to see about that middle ground as well, keeping my eyes peeled for a paint somewhere in the middle!
@@herossongstudio The U.S.A. should have its own high quality acrylic paint brand in the same bottles as the 'cheap' types for $5.00 i would buy it in a ''NY Minute'' so i won't have to depend on imported paints.
Citadel is decent but by no means worth its money. The pots themselves are already problematic due to their design. Dropper bottles are way more efficient and to add to that pigment density and consistency varies greatly even among “good” acrylics, due concerns of toxicity within the medium. Anything yellow for example is a pain to work with but it’s true that cheap crafts paints are really not worth it but anything in between citadel and the cheap crap is a good invenstment. Vallejo, ak, some army painter stuff(I do think they are overpriced as well).
All fair points! I agree that there is definitely some variance with colors across the board! I'm definitely going to check out some of those other brands, thanks so much for the ideas!
Get some acrylic medium and flow improver to mix into your paints. There's recipes online to make contrast and lahmian mediums. These come in pretty sizable bottles that are more cost effective than gw paints.
I'll definitely have to check out mediums, thanks for the feedback? Edit: that was supposed to be an exclamation point, not a question mark! My mistake!
@@herossongstudio Sorry about the abrupt comment. The medium will allow better thinning and glazing to some degree, so some medium will do wonders with any paint you mix it with. From what I've learned, the medium will thin the paint, but not disperse the pigments.
The hobby lobby brand mettalics which are like .70 a bottle had some really good coverage for me. They have this black metallic I like using for a darkened steel tmm
The pricing for Citadel paints will never make sense to me, when you can get almost double the amount for the same, or sometimes less, with Pro Acryl. I get that some colors, are truly unique and hard to find in other ranges, but screw those pots, they are intentionally made to gunk up over time, requiring you buy another pot and toss the remaining 20% left in there.
My opinion is citadel is way overpriced. I wouldn't use hobby paints for models like you did here but Reaper, Army Painter, and Vallejo all make excellent model paints for about 1/2 the price of GW. Hobby paints do have a place in our hobby though for home made terrain they are my go to because I'm not using $3 a pot paint for the base coat on foam board buildings I might do the detail work with nicer paints but for a base layer they are fine. I personally use army painter the most, you really need to pick up a bag of 6mm stainless BBs to act as agitators but they work great and I would go as far as to say their metallic paints are better than GW. They also have an entire line of speed paints which are the equivalent to GWs contrast paints and they also offer washes (branded as quick shade) which are quite nice.
Thanks for the feedback! I'm definitely going to check out some of the other brands you mentioned and do another comparison, seems like it could be a really interesting test!
'Cheap' paint isn't too bad it works better in a airbrush than a dry brush, Also, I would like see Citadel paints made here in the U.S. instead being imported.
Hobby paints are absolutely noticably different than simple craft paints. but, GW tends to overprice. You can get cheaper hobby paints that are just as good as Citadel. Two Thin Coats, Army Painter and Vallejo are my go to paints. But, i think every brand does have its advantages. I've used craft paints, mostly on terrain that i need massive amounts of paint on, but i have done minis on them. you can get good results, but you'll always end up with better results from actual hobby paints
Definitely agree, I've seen lots of comments about other brands of hobby paint and I'm really excited to do a comparison between some of the other brands! Thanks so much for the feedback!!
Could adding a quality medium and/or flow improver to the cheap paint make it more enjoyable/useable? I have painted some miniatures with cheap craft paints and agree, it’s more work than fun…but it can be done (as you discovered). But the more I got into the hobby, I finally caved and started buying Citadel paints…I still haven’t nailed thinning my paints (sometimes it’s too thick, sometimes it’s too thin, sometimes it’s just right) but it’s a whole lot easier and I get better results faster, which is important when you have dozens of models to paint.
I tend to find cheap craft acrylics to be a mixed bag, but generally cheap enough to be well worth continuing to explore; there are quite a few different brands out there, and they have similar sizes and prices, but the quality you get for that can vary quite a bit, both over brands and colours. Whenever I find a new brand in a local store, I'll usually pick out half a dozen to see how they feel. That said, I do just view them as a tool in the arsenal, so I use them alongside some specialist model paints as well, mostly Vallejo... but I also use some artists' acrylics in there too. There's also a lot to be said for experimentation; often with the cheaper paints, you'll be frustrated if you try to treat them the same way as, say, Citadel paints. But after a while, you may find they have properties that you can make good use of. As a for instance, many cheap lines have metals that don't cover very well... but you can get great effects by putting them over a coloured basecoat. Try taking a seemingly crappy gold paint, for instance, and thinning it over a dark brown base, a mid-brown base, and a caramel/yellow ochre base, even a _green_ base, and see how that affects the gold. As a couple of other people have mentioned, a good thinning medium can make a big difference, too. I often use acrylic floor polish as a medium; you can get a big bottle for about £10, and it's a lot like GW's Lahmian Medium, albeit with more of a gloss bent. It thins your paints without losing any of the cohesion, and can also be used as a satin varnish. Alternatively, I leaned a good medium recipe through Midwinter Minis; pick up a tub of matt medium (I got a decent-sized pot of Galeria matt medium), fill a small bottle half with the medium, and half with water, and add a drop of dish soap.
Awesome feedback, thanks so much for the great comment! Love thinking of things as "tools in the arsenal", lots of different stuff has its own, unique purpose! I tend to use cheap acrylic on 3D printed terrain for instance and it works fine applied liberally with a big brush. All great suggestions, thanks so much again for the ideas!!!
You wanted to say that this wasnt about the primer but it kinda is... the darker the primer, the worse it is with craft paints, the lighter the primer, the easier it is to cover stuff and make the most of your own minis, i know this because i started with craft paints and a very white primer and noticed that when i switch to a darker one, things got difficult like in the video. Another thing that help, crafts paints are perfect for mixing with other paints made for modelism, because they are more lighter in pigments you work wonders with them and even use it to make some washes.
You can debate whether you think miniature specific paint is necessary vs regular hobby paint, however when it comes to miniature specific paint there really is no argument that GW is overpriced. Literally almost every single brand is cheaper by volume and bottle. Most have less quality control issues (except Army painter v1). The only thing Citadel paints have going for them (not significantly) is availability.
Fair point, I've had a lot of comments mentioning other hobby paints and I'm really excited to do a comparison between some other brands and Citadel! True about the availability though unfortunately, I have a hard time finding other brands sometimes...
@@herossongstudio I meant to say "not INsignificantly" because GW has a huge advantage being in most people's LGS. I would love to see your take on Vallejo Model Color, Pro Acryl, new P3, AK v3, 2 Thin Coats or Army Painter v2. Personally my favorite is Pro Acryl (not a fan of the twist tips, but the paint is very consistent).
Easy answer. Citadel is waaaay over priced. I use apple barrel alot. The coverage is the biggest issue but if your not lazy and spend some time doing it it actually can look quite nice.
I would agree that the coverage was the big problem, the end result looked pretty similar! For me personally the good coverage is worth it but if you prefer to do more cheap coats that's awesome! It's all about what works for you!
Hey nice Video, I have a suggestion for you. Do the same again, but this time buy some real artist acryl paints. May seem more expensive in the first look, but they can be massivly better than the overpriced fancy paints we all are used to. you should compare similar things, and not a porsche to an old vw beetle. that seems a little bit unfair.
Awesome idea, thanks! I'll definitely look at some artist acrylics, I think that could be a really cool comparison! Any specific brands you have in mind?
Hobby paints are for the most part mid grade paints with high grade prices. For proper comparisons of costs, you want to be comparing with student grade artist paints of the sort that Golden, Liquitex, Windsor & Newton, and their like produce.
Good idea, I'll definitely check some of those artist paints out! I've never tried any of them on miniatures so I'd be really interested to see how they work! Thanks!
@herossongstudio you'll likely need to get comfortable with mixing in mediums for desired consistency, but I'm confident you'll handle it without any real issue if you haven't already.
just like comparing citadel to testers to tamayia, you are comparing apples to oranges. trying to get similar results from completely different manufacturers is your first mistake. I have been painting miniatures for 40+ years. typically I batch paint 10 to 20 models at a time. my goal is a tabe top ready standard. yes, I use the craft paints for 85% of the model and better quality paints for some detail work. the better way to use craft acrylic is on a dry palette and add water (or other medium). this will break up the chunky aspect of the paint. the craft paints are kinda like a paint in a concentrated form. once properly thinned, it works fantastic. since I am painting nearly 1000 miniatures per year, the expensive paints would break my budget. (as you had demonstrated)
Good point! I fear that they still may be a bit too thick and clog details but they definitely are intended to be used with less water, thanks for the feedback!
@@herossongstudio You can add some water once you know how they will react. Putting them in a wet palette is like dumping them in a pond. Different brands also have different pigment concentration and opacity. Try two or three different ones. I personally like Artist's Acrylic basic set.
Agreed, the final product looks very similar, the Citadel paint had a slightly more glossy finish than the craft paint but otherwise they appear mostly the same; the difference in the painting process and enjoyment of using both paints was really the huge difference here!
Folk art actually worse than apple barrel imo. But yeah GW basically the second most expensive figure paint on market, short of artist grade oils, definately overpriced
This is my exactly I think that games workshop is pricing itself out of existence. Paint is too expensive. The primer is too expensive. The miniatures are too expensive and they bitch you if you decide to go the print your own miniatures out and use different paints workshop needs to getout of its ass
the thing is, compared to like the cheapest of the cheapest paint you can get, sure, the citadel paint is obviously better. BUT, when you compare citadel to something like army painter.......... then you realize that army painter is on par, if not better, for half the price!!!!!! so yes, citadel colors are indeed, WAY to expensive, and it just a typical situation of fanboying. the "fans" will only buy citadel, no matter what!!! they pay 5 dollers per color simply because of the NAME!!!
Thanks for the feedback! I think doing a direct comparison to Army Painter would be really cool in the future, a few others have mentioned it as well so I'll definitely look into it!
This is a pretty terrible comparison. GW is overpriced but it's real value is not on the same level as Apple Barrel and the like, that is an apples to oranges comparison. You'd want to compare it to other mini hobby oriented paints. If you really want to look at non-mini hobby paint in a comparison to mini hobby paint (using GW as your mini example) you should look at Jo Sonja or other brands student grade paint while mixing with matte mediums instead of water (Liquitex, Blick, etc...). As for actually comparing mini hobby paint basically anything is better than GW. My vote would be Pro Acryl or Two Thin Coats if you want the kind of quality GW claims to be. AK, Vallejo, or Reaper for cheaper and similar to if not slightly better than actual GW. Scale 75 is great for mini formulated paint but actually works differently than GW (and the others) due to the medium.
I used to use those exact paints for years. The trick to those paints are to pick up Liquitex matte medium and Liquitex flow aid. Flow aid is to thin the consistency paint and make it flow better, do not use water, you will break the binders easily in the cheaper paint. Using matte medium to make the paint more translucent, for layer painting or glazes. These are great paints for most painters!
I've recently switched to army painter fanatics paint since I have more money now to spend on it, although I still use matte medium and flow aid from the stuff I've picked up from the cheap paints. I've also worked in speed paint medium into my toolkit now.
Good to know about the Liquitex flow aid, thanks! I'm really excited to try out the Army Painter Fanatics stuff, lots of people have recommended it in the comments so I'm definitely going to do a comparison video between that and Citadel! Thanks for the advice!
Everything Citadel sells is overpriced, and their paint is no better than Vallejo or Army Painter. I cannot support anything they do, as their constant price gouging and unnecessary changes that always result in them getting more money proves they don't have any respect for anyone, especially their fans.
Fair enough, I'm definitely interested in doing a direct comparison in the future to Army Painter and Vallejo; I appreciate the feedback!
Please do that!
@@BullFrog537Vallejo same, army painter bad 😂
In Citadel's defense, not everything is downright bad, even if still overpriced.
Contrast paints are still visibly better than alternatives, especially the AP SpeedPaints which are just bizarre to use despite fixing the most visible issues (like reactivation as if it was oil paint for the poor).
Same with select few technical paints (Blood for the Blood God is still the best for acrylic-based blood effects, same with Nurgle's Rot for slime effect - suggested alternatives from Vallejo (for example) are in fact very good complimentary paints, just not substitutes!).
Shade paints of other manufacturers are quickly catching up and even surpassed MOST of the Citadel's range (+ oil paints are becoming a standard thing again that is superior effect-wise for shading anyway).
But you are 100% right on most of the standard range from Citadel. Their whites in particular are just awful IN ADDITION to the typical bad white pigment coverage.
@@DrAhzek You're the only person I've ever heard who actually thinks Contrast Paints are better than Speed Paints. Contrast Paints are very inconsistent, the paint pots suck, and they're too expensive. What aspects of AP Speedpaints are "bizarre?"
I'm really talking about Citadel screwing over fans by changing free lexicons to forcing them to be purchased, eliminating armies, nerfing/buffing armies, etc... Hell, they even changed some of their washes without telling anyone. They price gouge every opportunity they get, so even if their paints were better than Vallejo and/or AP, I will not support Citadel in any way. They have no ethics and they take advantage of their own fans.
When i first started the only thing anyone told me is dont buy citadel unless you need a very unique color
That's interesting advice for sure! Hopefully you ended up finding some paint that worked well for you!
@herossongstudio I got a black templar set the only citadel I used was for metallic colors and there's almost no difference from normal models
Same here! I just started painting 6 months ago. The first advice i got was to only buy specific ones i needed like contrasts and technicel paints.
Great Video! I could really see the difference when you were applying the gold paint, it looked painful. You do make a great point about the higher costs being justified by being more enjoyable to paint and I don't think a lot of people consider it.
However, I still find the white GW paints to be really lacking. It could be interesting to compare specific GW paints to different brands to find better alternatives.
Your video and editing is really clean but I think it could be worth just taking more time with the audio as it seems pretty inconsistent across your videos. Definitely worth a subscribe though!
Thanks a bunch for your feedback and support, I genuinely appreciate it and will take it to heart; actively working on solving the audio problems!
I agree with you, some GW stuff really is garbage and I'm definitely interested in doing another video like this with other paint brands to see what it looks like.
Again, thanks so much for the great feedback, really appreciate it!!!
I use sargent acrylic 1 gallons mix them down with some flow aid and matt medium or pva.
Once you get a good consitancy its compareable to the other paints.
You just need to know a little bit about the formulas that the big companies are using.
For exampme when making washes i use equal parts flow
aid and alcohol with desired amount of pigment from a few drops of acrylic paint.
You can also use some Dawn dish soap(washing up liquid) just a few drops to imrove dispertion.
Very cool, good information, thanks a bunch!
I really appreciate the video also was caught by the curve ball at the start. I thought you would just bash on the citadel paint but instead of that you elaborated and explained the different aspects that affect the price.
To leave some feedback for the video beside the low volume which was already mentioned.
In some comparison shots the lighting looked very different which makes it hard to really compare. The pauldron painting is a good example (3:55) and an exmaple that was very good in my opinion, the shield painting was very comparable lighting-wise and I could really see the problems and struggle with the cheap paint.
Edit: I also really appreciate the short and sweet intro for your channel.
Thanks a bunch! I really appreciate those thoughts on the video. I was trying to be as objective as possible and I'm really glad it resonated with you!!!
Thank you so much for the feedback as well. I am actively working on the audio problem and I appreciate the comments about lighting as well. I think my camera likes to try and correct focus and light as I'm recording so I'll need to be more aware in the future. It was really obvious in this video given the side-by-side shots!
Again, thanks so much for your feedback and support, really means a ton!
Im sold on AK 3rd gen intense serie and vallejo. But also using monument hobby white and burned red. Citadel retributor armor, mephiston red and contrast paint are totally worth it
Agreed, there's definitely specific paints in each range that are awesome!
Agree re: Mephiston Red. I might buy it again but this time transfer to a dropper bottle and not keep it on the Citadel paint pots that seemed designed to 'help' the paints inside dry up before their time.
I’d love to see a review of paints like the liquitex or golden paints that are better quality stuff and still cheaper than the pro brands. There’s a liquitex fluid line that I would really like to try somewhere in the future.
That's a great suggestion, thanks a bunch! I'll definitely check those out, there will be another comparison video coming soon!!
I was thinking of getting myself value set of Craft Smart paints for Christmas and see if they'll work well for mini painting
Definitely could be worth a try! I've never tried that brand but if the worst problem you encounter is bad coverage you can make up for it with some time investment, could be worth it!
Thinning craft paint with ink pretty much fixes all of its issues in my experience and is still way cheaper than mini's paint
Good idea! Inks are super cool, I've been working with them recently and they definitely have some super useful properties!!
I've been getting more and more into artist acrylics, specifically Golden. The jars/bottles are larger and so cost more but ppml is on par with Pro Acryl.
Interesting, good to know, I'll have to check those out!
@@herossongstudio The Golden So-flat are especially popular with a lot of painters who are on yt like Vince Ventrella, Ninjon, Miniac and others. The high-flow line is Golden airbrush ready.
Better learn to mix colors as you don't get 20 diff shades of blue, red, etc but they are better than any hobby paint in existence
Got it, very cool! Thanks for the advice!
I used to paint a lot with FW acrylic inks over a white primer, works a lot like contrast paints. Maybe add a bit of acrylic medium to the ink to make it easier to handle.
Good idea! I'll definitely have to try that, thanks! I love inks so it would be fun to try using them like contrast, that would be super cool!
This video has achieved what it set out to do. 😉😂
Such a good video :)
Subscribed ❤
Thanks so much!! Really appreciate it!!!
Try using cheap paints and instead of water use army painters quickshade wash medium/speed paint medium. Makes any work well
Thanks for the feedback, I'll give that a shot!!
scale 74, valejo, AK interactive and many more, and that's while sticking to acrylic paint.
I think Citadel colours are very nice to work with. I use Scale 75 metal alchemy as well, Pro Acryl , Two Thin Coats, Speedpaint 2.0 , Vallejo XPress . I am not dogmatic about this only because its citadel. Some of the base and layer paints, some of their contrasts and some of their technical colours are absulutely amazing.
I would agree, there's definitely good and bad in every range but I agree that Citadel has some winners!
I would agree, there's definitely good and bad in every range but Citadel absolutely has some great stuff!
Volume really low, but useful vid. Would be interested in seeing some other paints to see if there is a middle ground between 58c and 5$
Thanks a bunch for the feedback! Apologies about the volume, my microphone needs an upgrade... I'd love to see about that middle ground as well, keeping my eyes peeled for a paint somewhere in the middle!
@@herossongstudio The U.S.A. should have its own high quality acrylic paint brand in the same bottles as the 'cheap' types for $5.00 i would buy it in a ''NY Minute'' so i won't have to depend on imported paints.
Citadel is decent but by no means worth its money. The pots themselves are already problematic due to their design. Dropper bottles are way more efficient and to add to that pigment density and consistency varies greatly even among “good” acrylics, due concerns of toxicity within the medium. Anything yellow for example is a pain to work with but it’s true that cheap crafts paints are really not worth it but anything in between citadel and the cheap crap is a good invenstment. Vallejo, ak, some army painter stuff(I do think they are overpriced as well).
All fair points! I agree that there is definitely some variance with colors across the board! I'm definitely going to check out some of those other brands, thanks so much for the ideas!
Get some acrylic medium and flow improver to mix into your paints. There's recipes online to make contrast and lahmian mediums. These come in pretty sizable bottles that are more cost effective than gw paints.
I'll definitely have to check out mediums, thanks for the feedback?
Edit: that was supposed to be an exclamation point, not a question mark! My mistake!
@@herossongstudio Sorry about the abrupt comment. The medium will allow better thinning and glazing to some degree, so some medium will do wonders with any paint you mix it with. From what I've learned, the medium will thin the paint, but not disperse the pigments.
Awesome, great to know, thanks again so much for the info regarding mediums! Sorry for the punctuation mistake!
The hobby lobby brand mettalics which are like .70 a bottle had some really good coverage for me. They have this black metallic I like using for a darkened steel tmm
Interesting, good to know! I'll definitely check that out next time I'm there!!
The pricing for Citadel paints will never make sense to me, when you can get almost double the amount for the same, or sometimes less, with Pro Acryl. I get that some colors, are truly unique and hard to find in other ranges, but screw those pots, they are intentionally made to gunk up over time, requiring you buy another pot and toss the remaining 20% left in there.
Back in 1970/80's the best white was Humbrol Matt White, it would cover anything in one step, however today i can't find a decent white at all.
Interesting, I've never heard of that but it sounds awesome! I haven't yet found a good white either yet but I'm hopeful one will be out there!
My opinion is citadel is way overpriced. I wouldn't use hobby paints for models like you did here but Reaper, Army Painter, and Vallejo all make excellent model paints for about 1/2 the price of GW. Hobby paints do have a place in our hobby though for home made terrain they are my go to because I'm not using $3 a pot paint for the base coat on foam board buildings I might do the detail work with nicer paints but for a base layer they are fine. I personally use army painter the most, you really need to pick up a bag of 6mm stainless BBs to act as agitators but they work great and I would go as far as to say their metallic paints are better than GW. They also have an entire line of speed paints which are the equivalent to GWs contrast paints and they also offer washes (branded as quick shade) which are quite nice.
Thanks for the feedback! I'm definitely going to check out some of the other brands you mentioned and do another comparison, seems like it could be a really interesting test!
'Cheap' paint isn't too bad it works better in a airbrush than a dry brush, Also, I would like see Citadel paints made here in the U.S. instead being imported.
Hobby paints are absolutely noticably different than simple craft paints. but, GW tends to overprice. You can get cheaper hobby paints that are just as good as Citadel. Two Thin Coats, Army Painter and Vallejo are my go to paints. But, i think every brand does have its advantages. I've used craft paints, mostly on terrain that i need massive amounts of paint on, but i have done minis on them. you can get good results, but you'll always end up with better results from actual hobby paints
Definitely agree, I've seen lots of comments about other brands of hobby paint and I'm really excited to do a comparison between some of the other brands! Thanks so much for the feedback!!
The philippines just got its own paint brand for miniatures that cheap and better in a dropper bottle called armored komodo ive been using to paint
That's awesome!!! I wish I could get my hands on some to give it a try!!
I've been using a royal and langnickel box set from Walmart and it's much better than the super cheap brands but still way cheaper than citadel.
Interesting! I'll have to check that out!
Some of their contrast paints are unmatched. As it goes for all paints, just buy what you use and like
Could adding a quality medium and/or flow improver to the cheap paint make it more enjoyable/useable?
I have painted some miniatures with cheap craft paints and agree, it’s more work than fun…but it can be done (as you discovered).
But the more I got into the hobby, I finally caved and started buying Citadel paints…I still haven’t nailed thinning my paints (sometimes it’s too thick, sometimes it’s too thin, sometimes it’s just right) but it’s a whole lot easier and I get better results faster, which is important when you have dozens of models to paint.
Maybe, that's an interesting idea! Could be worth a try! Ultimately I agree with you, faster results can really add up over a ton of models!!!
I tend to find cheap craft acrylics to be a mixed bag, but generally cheap enough to be well worth continuing to explore; there are quite a few different brands out there, and they have similar sizes and prices, but the quality you get for that can vary quite a bit, both over brands and colours. Whenever I find a new brand in a local store, I'll usually pick out half a dozen to see how they feel.
That said, I do just view them as a tool in the arsenal, so I use them alongside some specialist model paints as well, mostly Vallejo... but I also use some artists' acrylics in there too.
There's also a lot to be said for experimentation; often with the cheaper paints, you'll be frustrated if you try to treat them the same way as, say, Citadel paints. But after a while, you may find they have properties that you can make good use of.
As a for instance, many cheap lines have metals that don't cover very well... but you can get great effects by putting them over a coloured basecoat. Try taking a seemingly crappy gold paint, for instance, and thinning it over a dark brown base, a mid-brown base, and a caramel/yellow ochre base, even a _green_ base, and see how that affects the gold.
As a couple of other people have mentioned, a good thinning medium can make a big difference, too. I often use acrylic floor polish as a medium; you can get a big bottle for about £10, and it's a lot like GW's Lahmian Medium, albeit with more of a gloss bent. It thins your paints without losing any of the cohesion, and can also be used as a satin varnish.
Alternatively, I leaned a good medium recipe through Midwinter Minis; pick up a tub of matt medium (I got a decent-sized pot of Galeria matt medium), fill a small bottle half with the medium, and half with water, and add a drop of dish soap.
Awesome feedback, thanks so much for the great comment! Love thinking of things as "tools in the arsenal", lots of different stuff has its own, unique purpose! I tend to use cheap acrylic on 3D printed terrain for instance and it works fine applied liberally with a big brush.
All great suggestions, thanks so much again for the ideas!!!
You wanted to say that this wasnt about the primer but it kinda is... the darker the primer, the worse it is with craft paints, the lighter the primer, the easier it is to cover stuff and make the most of your own minis, i know this because i started with craft paints and a very white primer and noticed that when i switch to a darker one, things got difficult like in the video.
Another thing that help, crafts paints are perfect for mixing with other paints made for modelism, because they are more lighter in pigments you work wonders with them and even use it to make some washes.
Thanks for the feedback, I've seen a few comments mentioning that cheaper paints work better over white primer so I'll have to try that out!
You can debate whether you think miniature specific paint is necessary vs regular hobby paint, however when it comes to miniature specific paint there really is no argument that GW is overpriced. Literally almost every single brand is cheaper by volume and bottle. Most have less quality control issues (except Army painter v1). The only thing Citadel paints have going for them (not significantly) is availability.
Fair point, I've had a lot of comments mentioning other hobby paints and I'm really excited to do a comparison between some other brands and Citadel! True about the availability though unfortunately, I have a hard time finding other brands sometimes...
@@herossongstudio I meant to say "not INsignificantly" because GW has a huge advantage being in most people's LGS. I would love to see your take on Vallejo Model Color, Pro Acryl, new P3, AK v3, 2 Thin Coats or Army Painter v2. Personally my favorite is Pro Acryl (not a fan of the twist tips, but the paint is very consistent).
All great ideas, thanks so much! I'm really excited to get my hands on each of those paints and do some comparisons, I think it could be really fun!
Aside from all the comments... Let's not use cheap acrylic paints on black only.
How does it do on white primer?
Great question, I'll have to try that! I haven't found a good white primer yet, and advice there?
Easy answer. Citadel is waaaay over priced. I use apple barrel alot. The coverage is the biggest issue but if your not lazy and spend some time doing it it actually can look quite nice.
I would agree that the coverage was the big problem, the end result looked pretty similar! For me personally the good coverage is worth it but if you prefer to do more cheap coats that's awesome! It's all about what works for you!
Hey nice Video, I have a suggestion for you. Do the same again, but this time buy some real artist acryl paints. May seem more expensive in the first look, but they can be massivly better than the overpriced fancy paints we all are used to. you should compare similar things, and not a porsche to an old vw beetle. that seems a little bit unfair.
Awesome idea, thanks! I'll definitely look at some artist acrylics, I think that could be a really cool comparison! Any specific brands you have in mind?
You guys really sleepin on wraithbone
Yes
Use Liquitex or Pentart...
There are also better paints that are cheaper than citadel. Best probably would be Pro Acryl Paints.
Thanks for the suggestion! I am really excited to try out Pro Acryl paint, I've heard a ton of good things!
Hobby paints are for the most part mid grade paints with high grade prices. For proper comparisons of costs, you want to be comparing with student grade artist paints of the sort that Golden, Liquitex, Windsor & Newton, and their like produce.
Good idea, I'll definitely check some of those artist paints out! I've never tried any of them on miniatures so I'd be really interested to see how they work! Thanks!
@herossongstudio you'll likely need to get comfortable with mixing in mediums for desired consistency, but I'm confident you'll handle it without any real issue if you haven't already.
Got it, makes sense! I haven't had much experience with mediums yet but interested in trying; it would be so awesome to find a better value paint!!
just like comparing citadel to testers to tamayia, you are comparing apples to oranges.
trying to get similar results from completely different manufacturers is your first mistake.
I have been painting miniatures for 40+ years. typically I batch paint 10 to 20 models at a time. my goal is a tabe top ready standard.
yes, I use the craft paints for 85% of the model and better quality paints for some detail work.
the better way to use craft acrylic is on a dry palette and add water (or other medium). this will break up the chunky aspect of the paint. the craft paints are kinda like a paint in a concentrated form.
once properly thinned, it works fantastic. since I am painting nearly 1000 miniatures per year, the expensive paints would break my budget. (as you had demonstrated)
Why does games workshop says it’s $7.80 per pot? I just looked today…?
I think some are more expensive than others, some of their washes for example... It's crazy!!!
$5! They're $9 at my local store.
Wow! That's crazy! I have seen expensive paints around, definitely varies place to place!
you must go through a lot of brushes,your quite heavy with the pressure and motion of your strokes
Sorry. I'm afraid I have to disagree. I had the opposite experience but I also used a paint medium and not water.
Try using the cheap paint without the water pallet they are meant to be used as is, without water you have proper control and flow.
Good point! I fear that they still may be a bit too thick and clog details but they definitely are intended to be used with less water, thanks for the feedback!
@@herossongstudio You can add some water once you know how they will react. Putting them in a wet palette is like dumping them in a pond.
Different brands also have different pigment concentration and opacity. Try two or three different ones. I personally like Artist's Acrylic basic set.
I barely see a difference, only thing is the metal bits aren't that great.
Agreed, the final product looks very similar, the Citadel paint had a slightly more glossy finish than the craft paint but otherwise they appear mostly the same; the difference in the painting process and enjoyment of using both paints was really the huge difference here!
Folk art actually worse than apple barrel imo. But yeah GW basically the second most expensive figure paint on market, short of artist grade oils, definately overpriced
The Folk Art metallics were definitely brutally thin to be sure!!
This is my exactly I think that games workshop is pricing itself out of existence. Paint is too expensive. The primer is too expensive. The miniatures are too expensive and they bitch you if you decide to go the print your own miniatures out and use different paints workshop needs to getout of its ass
the thing is, compared to like the cheapest of the cheapest paint you can get, sure, the citadel paint is obviously better.
BUT, when you compare citadel to something like army painter..........
then you realize that army painter is on par, if not better, for half the price!!!!!!
so yes, citadel colors are indeed, WAY to expensive, and it just a typical situation of fanboying.
the "fans" will only buy citadel, no matter what!!!
they pay 5 dollers per color simply because of the NAME!!!
Thanks for the feedback! I think doing a direct comparison to Army Painter would be really cool in the future, a few others have mentioned it as well so I'll definitely look into it!
This is a pretty terrible comparison. GW is overpriced but it's real value is not on the same level as Apple Barrel and the like, that is an apples to oranges comparison. You'd want to compare it to other mini hobby oriented paints. If you really want to look at non-mini hobby paint in a comparison to mini hobby paint (using GW as your mini example) you should look at Jo Sonja or other brands student grade paint while mixing with matte mediums instead of water (Liquitex, Blick, etc...).
As for actually comparing mini hobby paint basically anything is better than GW. My vote would be Pro Acryl or Two Thin Coats if you want the kind of quality GW claims to be. AK, Vallejo, or Reaper for cheaper and similar to if not slightly better than actual GW. Scale 75 is great for mini formulated paint but actually works differently than GW (and the others) due to the medium.
Thanks for the feedback! Definitely going to do some more comparisons in the future!
Yes they are overpriced, EVERYTHING gw makes is grossly overpriced