It makes me sad to see SO MANY uninkable walls. This isn't a standard shooter, I hate them shoehorning us to not do the cool things squids can do like climbing walls. It's like it's going against the basis of the game stands for.
They made such a Big Freaking Deal in the development of Splatoon 1 about making the walls paintable, that it makes things hurt extra to see them abandon that. No joke, Brinewater actually hurts my soul to even see in the game.
It’s so heartwarming seeing all of these Japanese comments talking about the map design and joining the discussion since the Japanese subtitles were added! It’s clear that a lot of people are passionate about this and it’s great to see!
@Buzz-Lightskin splatoon devs have proven they can retcon bad changes before, so hopefully they'll do it again. idk why they thought these changes would be better, but at this point all we can do is stir up news about it in hopes that they notice the problem.
Having your weapon be artificially strong because of map design doesn’t make the weapon more enjoyable. Having to move effectively to make something like a charger work is part of the learning curve to those weapons and removing it makes them feel 2 dimensional and boring. Splatoon (3 more so than any previous entry) due to its movement is extremely dynamic and the maps should enable this to shine, not restrict what makes this series so unique.
Yeah! These abysmal maps absolutely RUIN Chargers for me! I don't care that I can play one of the strongest weapons in the game if I'm not having fun and making sure I'm not denying my enemies fun either! Give me a Dynamo, a WAYYY worse weapon for funnier clips and memories. Chargers: "Cool, another guy down. Anyways, this Splash is getting a little close, gotta move" Dynamo: "NO WAY I JUST DID THAT" **Holds Screenshot** Tacticooler Dynamo never seems to get old for some reason. While the way I prefer to play Chargers is still funny as hell, I end up falling into the traditional playstyle subconsciously due to the actually fun, aggressive style, being pretty disadvantageous.
i main both chargers and splatlings - i want to play backliner because it suits my play style but the challenge isnt there. i hope eventually the maps get updated to where chargers and other backline weapons arent artificially overpowered
It's really just so mind-boggling to me that they already had all these great maps designs finished and then for whatever reasons stripped them down into hallways, like, what is the purpose of having tons of uninkable walls all over the place it's just annoying.
Well Nintendo did post a job offering for map designers before splatoon 3 launched and at the time we just took it as confirmation that more old stages would be returning. However I now think Nintendo fired the old map designers and replaced them because they were unhappy with their work.
It's almost like Order was what the devs wanted but Chaos Rules. I mean, they are so adamant on Order that the expansion is called Side Order while I would have MUCH preferred a expansion with Deep Cut exploring the Splatlands with lots of chaos
20:07 Ya know it's doubly messed up that Squid Surge isn't utilized for maps more considering they demonstrated in the Tutorial by giving you a way to skip it, and I wonder how many people, including the devs, forgot about that because I sure did. Also forgot about it being used in After Alterna, because I stopped grinding it for Shel-drone drops a while ago.
@@GAHAHAHH I wanna believe that, but like the highest wall available at launch was TW Scorch mid and then Flounder came out; every other wall was better scaled by mashing jump imo
@@GAHAHAHH for most walls currently in maps mashing jump will get you up at the same speed, although I guess in some situations having the height Surge grants you can help you get a splat even if it makes most guns have less accuracy and leaving you a sitting duck in comparison to your ink. One can argue people can't react to the sudden jump height, but the same was thought for Splashdown. Intensify as an ability is one that's currently struggling for use right now as far as I can tell, not as bad as something like Gambit or Thermal but closer to Special Power Up (some Specials get near worthless buffs). Surge speed is nice on walls at range to take advantage of high ground (meaning map specific), but jump bloom reduction either isn't needed on the weapons it could help (or it's a Blaster) and the Roll speed effect can be outdone by just slapping on Swim Speed for general use. It's good on Pro because you only need a little to negate jump bloom but Pro really is a victim of circumstance save Forge; which also gets its Booyah dunked on by current Object Shredder users in response to Crab or its use replaced by Machine even with the nerf imo. The only other shooters I can see needing jump shots are close range weapons (which have wide spreads whose shot rng go to max the second they jump) except Splash, L-3 (the poor thing), maybe Jet as a panic option. The other ranged options either don't have jump bloom or they're Nova. Dualies could use the Roll speed perk with the dodges they give, as well as Surging with the ability to suddenly go to the ground, but that's if you trust your jump bloom on your inaccurate standard fire. Not to mention the only Dualie that can jump from a roll is Squelcher because reasons (likely a bug involving the slide it has). Most Blasters have to invest so much more for honestly no reason; 3 mains or 2 semi pures. I can see Slosh and Tri being a threat with the Surge height but that's if they're played at range, and they don't really need Intensify for the other two improvements. Every other weapon would either want Swim Speed instead of the Roll buff, don't get jump bloom or prefer to shoot from the ground for accuracy, or don't need Surge to be faster. If people like it for quality of life that's fine, I just don't see the need of it currently.
Some ideas to make squid surge useful: - allow you to angle your launch for unique paths to take a tower - don't treat it like a jump for aim RNG - leave an ink trail where you launch (if it doesn't already) - give it some ability to suction cup to some uninkable walls and then launch vertically above a ledge but not horizontally crest it (zipcasterish) - faster ink tank recovery while charging the surge
I'm so glad you talked about the early versions of the stages from the Reveal Trailers. I just rewatched the trailers today in anticipation for this video and just through how different they looked and couldn't understand why they would make such drastic changes.
I heard somewhere it might have been a last minute executive decision because they felt like new players would get lost on the stages, which might also be why Xenoblade 3 and Splatoon 3 swapped release dates.
It's great to finally see this video come fruition, at even better at such a large scale. Definitely one of the most informative videos you've made, and I really hope the more these issues are brought up, the more the Splat devs may see this discussion and try to fix it. Kinda like how they took out The Reef and other maps from rotation to update them in Splatoon 2. Only time will tell, I suppose. Great video to you and everyone who helped you put it together!
I didn't play Splatoon 2, was The Reef bad at first? This is surprising to hear if it is the case because I hear only good things from people and I've even heard a lot say it's their favorite Splatoon 2 map
You know, I saw Squid School’s videos on the topic and I wasn’t really able to understand it much, but when I heard “the entire map is a choke point” everything clicked for me Also, I would really love to see more inkable walls… that’s half the fun!
As a person who loves this franchise and all of it’s aspects who is sometimes frustrated by the gameplay, this video has shed so much light onto things I’ve been feeling but couldn’t describe with proper words
@@dhmo1529 I don't think that is a good excuse. Just because the theme of splatoon 3 is chaos does not mean to simplify the maps until they look like hallways and tetris. That sounds more like order than chaos.
So cool to see the project finally be done! The anticipation for this video was part of what actually inspired me to make my original Mahi reworks in the first place, so it's insane to actually be a part of the real thing.
Wow. Flc described exactly what my experience is like as a blaster main who can't spam special. It feels grouped, it feels like a steamroll, it feels like I'm not doing anything if not killing and forcing the opponents back, it feels like I get found just by association of everything else being I'm the same place.
Pretty similar to how it feels on roller. I just try the same shit over and over and hope for good timing and a better distracting, mechanically predicting the enemy's movements a little better. Very little room to show creativity, which is supposed to be one of the most fun things about roller -- plus you can't lurk or hide out for a moment because the enemy WILL find you just by nature of there being only one or two routes for them to ink. Meanwhile on charger I feel a huge amount of weight to hold the line against planted opponents while my short-ranged allies die repeatedly.
I personally think the maps are actually the biggest issue with Splatoon 3. Even from a weapon balancing stand point. Yeah Crab is incredibly busted right now because of its range and damage. But if none of the maps change. A Crab nerf is not gonna do a whole lot in the games balance when the overlying issue isn't being resolved. And if they decided to just butcher crab it isn't stopping the other high range weapons from rising to the top because of how poor the map design in this game is.
if the maps were well designed, crab wouldn’t be as big of a problem, like with flounder heights i often see crab tanks get easily flanked and overwhelmed because of the approach options but with a map like eeltail or undertow where there’s no other options or routes to counter it, crab tanks are overwhelmingly strong
I’m a splat charger main who struggles with approaching E-Liters as most maps have a perch for them where being stationary (usually something chargers shouldn’t do) is rewarded. I hate ink vac and desperately want a new kit, but even then I don’t think a special will help stop them from picking off my teammates and I at spawn. I recall many maps in S2 where you would need to use the mini map to catch a flank (vs Flounder or Scorch where you can stare at spawn from mid and tell they’re approaching) but the only one somewhat similar to that that I can think of is Mako Mart.. a S2 map. I didn’t really care for Ancho-V Games, but I’m really starting to miss maps designed like it.
Here's the thing, outside of the closed room "pros" and tournaments with teams, NO ONE USES CRAB AND SPLASH. All i have seen this season, especially in February, is CONSTANT Booyah Bomb and Inkstrike bombardments. No one in any mode is doing the mythical Crab Tank and Splash. Like 95% or higher don't have teams, they don't play tournaments, they aren't S^n+ rank, what they see is combos of every weapon that uses Booyah Bomb(especially Golden Aerospray) and Inkstrike. The Chocolate Splatfest was a pretty damn good example of this too. Nothing but aerial bombardments not letting you do anything. But again, even this can be fixed with map designs being improved
I’ve been waiting for this video, and yeah the maps feel like they are designed to favor certain weapons, hence why eliter is such a powerhouse in this game, can’t wait to see what else is in the vid!
I always knew map design was a problem, but after watching this video, I am convinced of two things: 1) I don’t know how I can play S3 again after seeing these great solutions 2) Nintendo needs to contract Chara & Bipedal as map design advisors
I agree with 2, but only if Chara keeps solo queue in mind also. Some of his weapon kits and map design are great for comp splatoon, but not so much for solo queue/uncoordinated gameplay.
@@AvatarAang_ Then again, S3's current maps aren't for solo queue anyways. It does contain the whole, pUsH fOrWaRd EaSy GaMePlAy experience that is solo queue, but unlike the current maps you can't be clever to make a sneak attack and try the distract and pick off the stray enemies because of the lack of other options to move. It's another reason why we need more people to appreciate Splatoon 2's maps more, because at least THEY have a few more options than just "push forward and hope for idiot teammates to paint" style that is solo queue.
@@AvatarAang_ If I actually had the option to pick these things there would be way more done with real testing, the reworks etc take a lot of work, but obviously to put into the actual game requires more work.
@@AvatarAang_ things are always tested. The only Nintendo game that comes to mind that has actual developers who play the game is Smash. I think Splatoon should have that too. But obviously, those are career paths people take & Splatoon is still young.
I’m a Splatana Wiper Main, and I feel like I would enjoy and be better at the game if the maps were more open. I can barely use the stamper half the time because there are to many corners. It does feel very restrictive. And I really do enjoy Splatoon 2’s maps a lot more. (Edit: This is also based off of my skill level at the time. Using a we weapon when you’re at a lower skill level means it’s not entirely the maps fault. I have greatly improved using the stamper!)
I've noticed that spawn camping and long range weapons seem to have more support from the devs to be used in this game along with these linear maps, which makes turf pretty annoying to play as a casual player. I was so excited to have Mahi Mahi Resort back, but when I saw how drastically it was changed I couldn't help but think "this is it??" The old map seemed so much bigger and approachable from different parts, like you could get attacked from any angle at every turn. New Mahi is just a pair of choke points with an open square in the middle
As someone who only plays turf war casually, it literally feels like race to center and whoever gains control first completely decimates the enemy team
That opening bit from FLC is a great resource to teach newer players how to approach choke points. Honestly, that clip from FLC could be uploaded as an entirely new video.
I still remember that Nintendo Japan tweet. Looking for splatoon 3 map designers. That was sometime after the initial launch trailer with scorch I believe, such a tragedy. We’re their map philosophies really that terrible? A crampfest? What if that tweet was never posted? What if they were never hired? Would we be here right now? 😢 Good video nonetheless.
Speaking from personal background experience in level and map design- in principle, you guys really nailed it with nearly all of these changes. It makes me very happy to see this kind of productive critique/content instead of the normative "hallway map bad" with no additions past that. To be honest it really hurts seeing just how many genuinely simple changes could drastically alleviate the downright baffling design choices made with many of these maps. However, it also instills a sense of hope seeing that the vast majority of these changes are very realistic. I know a LOT of work goes into these kinds of videos but I would LOVE to see more of them as its not only great content, but also extremely healthy for discussions about the state of the game as a whole. Keep up the fantastic work
If I had to guess *why* this issue with maps being extremely choke-pointy happened. I’m would guess because of turf war. Turf war as a game mode has a problem where both teams can be accomplishing the objective (painting turf) simultaneously without fighting each other. This can lead to games where you have both teams that just go around each other in mid and then just repeatedly paint each others bases. A problem that becomes more common the more options people have to move through the map. Having more choke points avoids this problem as both teams are forced to interact to gain ground. I think you can see this in how the various maps differ between modes. Turf war is almost always the most restrictive layout with the least options for flanks. Because of this I think nintendo made a conscious decision to make the maps more linear overall to force the teams to interact with each other more in turf war. Do I think this was a good decision? God no. But it’s the only one that makes sense in my head to explain why the devs would make such a change.
Is people not fighting in turf war really that big of a problem, tho ? As long as they do the objective and paint, who cares really. Plus, that's the "go chill and have fun" game mode, anyway. If that's the real reason (I really doubt it), that's pretty dumb.
The wild part is I love the aesthetic of all the maps and I love where it SEEMS they were going with them, and then the problems that y’all mentioned are just confusing little intrusions. Like it would be so easy to make the maps good. Also imo I’d rather have overtuned maps than stallfests, it’s easier to tighten up flanks and open snipes than it is to have to adjust map design. Absolutely love your guys’ analysis and agree with every little thing. Hopefully we get some action from devs. I wanna play on those old map designs so bad 😢
What an incredible idea to make some parts of the map only accessible via squid surge. Turning the kinda pointless mechanic into one that’s risky but can provide an advantage on some maps
The sad thing is when I play Flounder Heights, the map that is probably the least restrictive, players just funnel themselves at the enemy team anyway. That's probably why Devs make hallways and choke points.
spla2n and especially new splatoon 3 players don’t realize the options they have with flounder heights, which is why you tend to see a bunch of players just throwing themselves towards that left ramp
yep, this vid reminded me of why I genuinely like playing flounder heights sm more then other maps, since I'm always playing into different parts of the map to advance. when I already have mid though it's a bit boring since it's easy to keep hold of it for the rest of the match but for attacking I'm always going at a different angle. I love having to think about which way will offer the best outcome but that just doesn't happen in most of the other maps >->
Felt that WAYYY too hard. I hated flounder heights right when it was released because the maps have conditioned me, a heavy/hydra player who started playing in late splatoon 2 and really got into it during splatoon 3, to play very stationery and stally, use the same perches and snipes all the time, and never utilize any of the options that good maps like flounder provide. Beyond just flanks and alternate routes, these maps also condition me to play way too passively in general and not push when it's the right time to, and I need to get out of this habit.
I gotta say this is definitely my favorite video you have made. I really like just how long the video is and just the sheer amount of effort put into place to show that the maps CAN be good with a few changes. I'd really really love to see longer videos like this from you more frequently. Maybe work on one big video at a time and release a bunch of small ones in the meantime. Just a suggestion either way i can't wait to see what ya do next!
I agree with this a lot! As a player who tends toward shorter ranged weapons, on most maps it feels like if anything outranges me even a tiny bit, I'm just done. I don't have creative options to go and flank around them or do much of anything besides run at them with a teammate and hope we win the fight. Meanwhile, when I tried hydra for the first time, it felt amazing, since all I needed to do was find a ledge somewhere and then suddenly I could shoot basically anyone anywhere on the map. I still play cdeco mostly now, but I really do think that the game (and the meta) would be drastically changed for the better with good map design
It’s really astonishing how much something as small as adding/expanding the flank routes can do for certain stages. Scorch Gorge, probably one of my least favorite maps in the game, could easily become one of my favorites with something as small as making the walls along the flanks inkable, and the flanks a little bigger. Amazing video, It’s nice to have something which sums up my main issue with S3 in such a comprehensive manner 😄
Great video! As a level designer, I would do a few things differently (mostly incorporating more singleplayer mechanics) but the designs presented in this video are really well executed and I genuinely hope that Nintendo reworks maps in a similar fashion if/when they do. I may actually take a crack at making 3D mockups of some of these designs when I'm not so busy to see how they would feel just walking around.
It’s so sad that shifty stations aren’t in splatoon 3. They used single player mechanics and were always a really fun mix up. Also allowed for experimentation of map design in a casual setting. I don’t think tri color turf war is a good replacement.
@@zacharynovak2180 Actually have a map concept in the works that borrows a lot of design elements from two shifty stations: The Bouncey Twins (The one with bounce pads) and Railway Chillin' (The one with ride rails)
@Buzz-Lightskin You're too sweet. I wouldn't accept any payment, at least not at this stage given I haven't even started properly working due to being in my last semester before I get my degree. Need to focus on that first :)
@@ProChara Yeah, in trying to keep things realistic, I tried to find things that would match the stage. Like putting ride rails or dash tracks on Wahoo world Ride rails would have to be removed or changed for rainmaker (ride rails in mid activate after hitting a checkpoint for example) because being able to fire the rainmaker while moving at full speed and scoring points is a problem.
Alot of people think that backings are really bad and unfun on flounder but I think they were just spoiled from all the otheraps being so easy for them. They have to actually choose where to set up, actually watch for flanks, rely on their team etc which they aren't used to, so they think the map is bad when it's not.
When I get flanked I don't go "What a load of shit, this map sucks!" The normal response should be "Fuck! I need to pay attention to that spot." It keeps you on your toes so the game doesn't get boring and you're not facing the same direction the whole game.
I'll say it again when when playing splatoon 3 you choose from 2 playstyles. Either build a wall hoping the opponent just crumbles by themselves or Just constantly smash your head against the wall the opponent has created.
Beautiful analysis - this is what I’ve been thinking the entire time playing Splatoon 3 as well. The fact that there’s fewer maps doesn’t help either, it feels like every Splatoon 3 map is the same. As a splatling player I now feel bad just playing the game - I can literally see everything and everyone from a certain position (especially on hagglefish market) which makes flanks super easy to shut down. In 2 it used to be I never know if anyone was going to come and flank me from behind, now it makes everything very predictable. I hope they bring back some more 2 maps or rework the current 3 ones, they definitely need it. (And DEFINITELY make it so that e liter cant reach across the entire map from their base in brinewater springs)
I don't understand why Nintendo won't utilize some of the new mechanics and feature them in map design for ranked game modes. The tutorial feature so many interesting flank ideas: why are there no un-inkable wall areas that have inkable parts or sections to them that require squid surge to maneuver through? Why aren't there more ways to use squid roll as a parkour movement option between walls? Why does Nintendo hate inked wall movement in general? Why are they afraid to use more single-player exclusive hazards and features like moving walls and grind rails? (I can at least see and understand possible latency issues with dash and bounce pads) Do they think it's no intuitive enough and would phase out too many players? I wish they'd allow more freedom for those options to be learned. If Nintendo has learned anything from games like Smash, it's that they underestimate the amount of prowess and skill that determination and persistence can bring about, and Splatoon players are definitely one of their next most persistent, committed communities.
I think the frequency of updates is also a factor in the failure. Seasonal games are allowed because they are basically free to play. The frequency of this update and adjustment is nothing more than negligence in the full-price, online paid splatoon.
@@Dead-Tired_Knight nintendo is not necessarily known for being nice to youtube content creators, so either way I doubt they'll care unless people REALLY complain about it
I find it funny how Nintendo took the concept of highly criticized maps in splatoon 2 like Goby Arena, Walleye Warehouse and Arowana Mall, for being impossible to gain mid after the enemy has it because of how little options you work with, and thought "oh well in this game it's gonna be different !" And then it's not.
See, I like chokepoint maps. I like how they force you to fight aggressively. I don't like fighting aggressively every single time, tho. I was wondering why there was such a difficulty spike in this game, and you guys pointed it out perfectly.
I don't normally comment on videos but WOW this really put my feelings into words about the game's general map design. The reworks, especially mahi and wahoo, I really like the idea of. Fantastic work to everybody who contributed to this project!
I’m just amazed by how much thought you guys put into this. It’s good to hear stuff like this from someone who has a lot of experience from the series.😯👍
The most disappointing things imo is how good the stages could have been if they didn’t change anything and the fact that everything said in this video still applies to the most recent maps
In Mario Kart Terms, it's like excitebike arena. Sure it has a lot of variation between games, but in the end you are just going through the same path and corners where basically no skill expression is possible
What I hate about hammerhead, that even your revision couldn't fix, is that they removed the bridge aspect to it. It took place on a bridge under construction, but it itself had a bridge across the entire map! I understand that in Splatoon 3 the bridge is done, but in what way does that require the map's bridge to be removed? Why even make it the same map if you're removing it's namesake?
What a fantastic video! Thank you for taking the time and effort to make this. Also a huge shout out to FLC! Splatoon 3 is my first Splatoon game and I enjoy it very much. But the maps do feel a bit wonky. Your suggestions seem amazing, honestly. It's interesting how, regardless of what aspect in life, the phrase "don't fix what ain't broke" always applies. Going off of this video (as I've never played Splatoon 1) it appears that Splatoon 1 had great designs that didn't really need much change (if any at all). Hopefully we'll see your suggestions be applied in the future
Amazing video! The maps are genuinely the only thing holding this game back from being truly incredibly, it's very frustrating. It's funny how wahoo world was one of the worst maps in S2, yet is now pretty alright in S3 because all the other ones are just that much worse. It is actually crazy how much better the maps would be if these changes were put into place, man, I hope some reworks happen soon.
One thing I also gotta bring up in Splatoon 3 is the fact that Wipeouts are FAR more common. Like, to the point where you'll have one almost every match. This leads to my theory that the maps were designed so that players are easier to kill, and therefore, give novice players more of a chance to ink more of the stage. But if anything, this makes the game feel more unbalanced as doing Squid Jumps is essentially a one way ticket to instant death, even WITH stealth upgrades because you're cooped up with everyone else, so there's WAY less room for good strategy.
As a casual who play all of the modes splatoon 3 has to offer, for a while I was confused about why everyone was complaining about the maps and I personally though they were fine. But to see someone actually addressing the problem and stating solutions is such a breath of fresh air instead of just a small angry mob saying that splatoon 3 is the worst splatoon game because of bad maps. And now, I still think the maps are fine but they REALLY could be improved to the best possible version. I really hope with the power of the algorithm, the splat 3 devs will see this video
I agree as another casual player. Honestly im the type of person to be drawn to what I find more appealing (ex I LOVE mahi mahi because of its whole aesthetic)but gameplay wise these small changes would be so good for the game
As an Octobrush player I naturally look for flank routes and easy ways to get up close the enemies. It’s this kind of map design that I think has made the gameplay of high damage, close range weapons way less fun. To get picks now it sometimes feels like I need to try and run at the enemies head on (basically suicide) or essentially camp in our side of the field (not fun, and pretty annoying and unfair) because of how easy it is for splatlings, chargers, etc. to hold this sort of ground
The old layouts were soooo good. Really hope that they get changed to be at least a little different. Also the Wahoo change to go into the building is hilarious, love it!
The one that was saddest to me was Brinewater. We finally got a map with a really large vertical difference, yet it is one of the worst choke points. I really like the ideas y’all came up with!
11:25 I think it’s a mix of all three, mostly because these stages scream that they were designed around Turf War to me. I think that Nintendo found that due to the nature of the mode, in Splatoon 1 players would often be split up and not participating in battle as much so as the games progressed, they’ve slowly removed paths and every map has been skimmed down to one path that is a team effort to get through, also to funnel the teams into the center of the map where more fighting will happen. If you look at the example match you provided, this is exactly what happened. Everyone is fighting in the center of the map and struggling to break into the opposing side, and I think this is what they wanted for turf war. The only problem is I think they treat ranked as a complete afterthought. We all know that Nintendo designs primarily around their perception of kids, so they think they need to dumb things down like how with Paper Mario they assume kids aren’t smart enough to handle an actual game and strip out everything complicated or that takes effort. And I think they believe in Splatoon that ranked is too complicated so they don’t think about it when designing the maps; turf war is priority number one. So yeah the maps suck because they’re intentionally designed to be as difficult to manoeuvre as possible for turf war, they aren’t designed for any other mode.
HOLY SHIT that whole segment of like “it makes you want to fight even if you’re a support weapon” etc, or that “it makes you feel trapped / suffocated” i have felt that about the maps since the fucking testfire !!! i thought the maps were so cramped and didn’t have any dynamic level to them. some of them i love with all my heart but mincemeat and hammerhead have always been like. urgh i dont know, suffocating ? and brinewater is WAY too open of a map to even be . Fun. it’s irritating, the maps feel really bland .
honestly as a new player and someone new to splatoons franchise [but not the genre of game],, for the longest time i couldnt figure out what it was about the game that aggravated me so much [i have game anxiety so i only play casual but yes, i still hate losing] - and then i sat down to watcht this video and a lot of stuff is clicking into place for me. i didnt realise how the map design was frustrating me until i saw the maps outside of game time and how they could be improved. man. i always try to backdoor or flank the enemy but i cant do that if theres one long narrow set of choke points and no edges for me to surf around. and knowing older games let you do that with their maps does dissappoint me to be honest. im glad i watched this and i also hope the maps will improve going forward
I have a MASSIVE issue with Mahi Mahi Resort. It went from being hands down my favorite map in Splatoon 1 to being borderline unplayable. Every match just boils down to pin or get pinned. This was an interesting video! The maps in this game have always felt super cramped for some reason, and this is a great explanation of why. Subbed!
Thank you very much for this video! I have been hesitant to complain about the maps sinceI I figured it was just a change in design philosophy and, while it was different, I didn't think it was necessarily bad. In fact, coming into this game after only casually playing Splatoon 1 & 2, the more linear format of the stages made it a lot easier for me to pick up fundamentals of the game again and get a better feeling of the state of the game at any given moment. Having to defensively manage mid and multiple flanks was a bit hectic and some of my favorite maps were Arowana Mall and Port Mackerel and I suspect, looking back, it was because their more closed off nature was easier for me to conceptually understand and keep track of. Going into Splatoon 3 a bit more competitively though, I'm starting to feel the limitations of the fight-heavy "push through mid" philosophy the design team decided to go for. The section of the video talking about how difficult it was to push through chokepoints was really well articulated and helped me understand some of the reasons why I dislike seeing certain maps in rotation. I loved the stage reworks and I hope we see some of those design changes or some changes made that achieve the same end-goal in the future. Thank you again for making this video! And thank you to everyone who collaborated with you. It's clear there was a lot of thought that went into the video and it was very well articulated.
Turf war is the only mode where I don't despise the majority of the layouts, so I've basically quit playing ranked. It's a shame that I have to wait for the decent maps to be in rotation in order to play my favorite modes
This is a really informative and entertaining video and I absolutely love the selection of music for it. Well chosen and diverse sources. Very cool ideas, very cool video.
i never got into splatoon 3 as much as i wanted to, i was really excited for it. i tried it a couple months back and the map design is horrendous, i never remember having this many games where i just cannot leave spawn on turf war when i played splatoon 2.
What do you guys think of Splatoon 3's maps?
I love going against chargers!!!!!!!!!!
I wish I had nintendo online~
Me no like them :|
Charger heaven.
Liters too dominate
It makes me sad to see SO MANY uninkable walls. This isn't a standard shooter, I hate them shoehorning us to not do the cool things squids can do like climbing walls. It's like it's going against the basis of the game stands for.
I know what you mean but the line "things squids can do like climbing walls" is so funny when context is removed
what is squid surge?😂
@@PRINTOROnever heard of something like that🤷♂️
Squid surge is basically the one of the game’s missed opportunities
They made such a Big Freaking Deal in the development of Splatoon 1 about making the walls paintable, that it makes things hurt extra to see them abandon that.
No joke, Brinewater actually hurts my soul to even see in the game.
It’s so heartwarming seeing all of these Japanese comments talking about the map design and joining the discussion since the Japanese subtitles were added! It’s clear that a lot of people are passionate about this and it’s great to see!
It really is, I saw them and went "no way!"
???
なんとなく感じていた窮屈さが明確に言語化されていて、めちゃくちゃ納得できた。
過去作のような楽しむ為、勝ち方を模索する為、といったそれぞれのプレイヤーの目的の為にも、自由度の高いステージで遊びたいっすね〜
seeing maps be 10x better in pre-release footage is so painful …..
EXACTLY 😭
Agreed
@@Walk.Foward nah, while the current layouts suck, we will probably get map updates like in Splatoon 2
@@Mimikeeby hopefully
@Buzz-Lightskin splatoon devs have proven they can retcon bad changes before, so hopefully they'll do it again. idk why they thought these changes would be better, but at this point all we can do is stir up news about it in hopes that they notice the problem.
Having your weapon be artificially strong because of map design doesn’t make the weapon more enjoyable. Having to move effectively to make something like a charger work is part of the learning curve to those weapons and removing it makes them feel 2 dimensional and boring. Splatoon (3 more so than any previous entry) due to its movement is extremely dynamic and the maps should enable this to shine, not restrict what makes this series so unique.
@@dacomputernerd4096 I am likewise a heavy splatling main, and some zones maps are so boring I actively avoid quing for them
Yeah! These abysmal maps absolutely RUIN Chargers for me! I don't care that I can play one of the strongest weapons in the game if I'm not having fun and making sure I'm not denying my enemies fun either! Give me a Dynamo, a WAYYY worse weapon for funnier clips and memories.
Chargers:
"Cool, another guy down. Anyways, this Splash is getting a little close, gotta move"
Dynamo:
"NO WAY I JUST DID THAT"
**Holds Screenshot**
Tacticooler Dynamo never seems to get old for some reason. While the way I prefer to play Chargers is still funny as hell, I end up falling into the traditional playstyle subconsciously due to the actually fun, aggressive style, being pretty disadvantageous.
I win every time I pick hydra
@@cronotriggered4314 hydra on scorch zones is my biggest enemy
i main both chargers and splatlings - i want to play backliner because it suits my play style but the challenge isnt there. i hope eventually the maps get updated to where chargers and other backline weapons arent artificially overpowered
It's really just so mind-boggling to me that they already had all these great maps designs finished and then for whatever reasons stripped them down into hallways, like, what is the purpose of having tons of uninkable walls all over the place it's just annoying.
probably to make them easier to understand to new players?
Well Nintendo did post a job offering for map designers before splatoon 3 launched and at the time we just took it as confirmation that more old stages would be returning. However I now think Nintendo fired the old map designers and replaced them because they were unhappy with their work.
@@zachattack1279😂😂
先日のアップデートではステージ改修がありましたが、その内容はどれもチャージャー系統などの長射程による一方的な攻撃を防ぐために不自然に看板や柱を建てるものでした。
結果として、この動画で話しているような裏取りルートの追加、リスポーン地点のルート増加などの修正は一切されませんでした。
とても残念です。
やはり、開発と私たちでは「ここをこのようにしてほしい！」などの思想が大きく異なるようです。
I loved how complicated the splatoon 1 maps were. It was like exploring and it felt amazing to flank enemy teams
It's almost like Order was what the devs wanted but Chaos Rules. I mean, they are so adamant on Order that the expansion is called Side Order while I would have MUCH preferred a expansion with Deep Cut exploring the Splatlands with lots of chaos
Splatoon 1 map design was awful lol
@@normanred9212 Splatoon 1 isn't "chaos"
@@internetguy7319 It's the only Splatoon game with more than 2 good maps
@@internetguy7319 Splatoon 1 maps where good, the matches where interesting as you wasn’t tunneled to the middle.
20:07
Ya know it's doubly messed up that Squid Surge isn't utilized for maps more considering they demonstrated in the Tutorial by giving you a way to skip it, and I wonder how many people, including the devs, forgot about that because I sure did. Also forgot about it being used in After Alterna, because I stopped grinding it for Shel-drone drops a while ago.
I remember in after alterna sitting there for at least 5 minutes with no clue how to get up until finally looking it up and remembering squid surge
Same I’d be ok if there were routes that could only be reached with a surge. Would make investing Intensify gear more worthwhile.
@@GAHAHAHH I wanna believe that, but like the highest wall available at launch was TW Scorch mid and then Flounder came out; every other wall was better scaled by mashing jump imo
@@GAHAHAHH for most walls currently in maps mashing jump will get you up at the same speed, although I guess in some situations having the height Surge grants you can help you get a splat even if it makes most guns have less accuracy and leaving you a sitting duck in comparison to your ink. One can argue people can't react to the sudden jump height, but the same was thought for Splashdown.
Intensify as an ability is one that's currently struggling for use right now as far as I can tell, not as bad as something like Gambit or Thermal but closer to Special Power Up (some Specials get near worthless buffs).
Surge speed is nice on walls at range to take advantage of high ground (meaning map specific), but jump bloom reduction either isn't needed on the weapons it could help (or it's a Blaster) and the Roll speed effect can be outdone by just slapping on Swim Speed for general use.
It's good on Pro because you only need a little to negate jump bloom but Pro really is a victim of circumstance save Forge; which also gets its Booyah dunked on by current Object Shredder users in response to Crab or its use replaced by Machine even with the nerf imo. The only other shooters I can see needing jump shots are close range weapons (which have wide spreads whose shot rng go to max the second they jump) except Splash, L-3 (the poor thing), maybe Jet as a panic option. The other ranged options either don't have jump bloom or they're Nova.
Dualies could use the Roll speed perk with the dodges they give, as well as Surging with the ability to suddenly go to the ground, but that's if you trust your jump bloom on your inaccurate standard fire. Not to mention the only Dualie that can jump from a roll is Squelcher because reasons (likely a bug involving the slide it has).
Most Blasters have to invest so much more for honestly no reason; 3 mains or 2 semi pures.
I can see Slosh and Tri being a threat with the Surge height but that's if they're played at range, and they don't really need Intensify for the other two improvements.
Every other weapon would either want Swim Speed instead of the Roll buff, don't get jump bloom or prefer to shoot from the ground for accuracy, or don't need Surge to be faster. If people like it for quality of life that's fine, I just don't see the need of it currently.
Some ideas to make squid surge useful:
- allow you to angle your launch for unique paths to take a tower
- don't treat it like a jump for aim RNG
- leave an ink trail where you launch (if it doesn't already)
- give it some ability to suction cup to some uninkable walls and then launch vertically above a ledge but not horizontally crest it (zipcasterish)
- faster ink tank recovery while charging the surge
20:10 イカノボリ使わないと登れない壁の発想めっちゃ良い、チュートリアルステージのショートカットみたいな感じかな
I'm so glad you talked about the early versions of the stages from the Reveal Trailers. I just rewatched the trailers today in anticipation for this video and just through how different they looked and couldn't understand why they would make such drastic changes.
I heard somewhere it might have been a last minute executive decision because they felt like new players would get lost on the stages, which might also be why Xenoblade 3 and Splatoon 3 swapped release dates.
問題点をただ述べるだけではなくて、しっかり改善点まで考えている素晴らしい動画だと思いました。
終始説明は分かりやすく、出された改善案は全て素敵で胸が踊ります。
こういうのは本来ゲーム会社がやるべきなんだがねえ なにをさてるんだか
It's great to finally see this video come fruition, at even better at such a large scale. Definitely one of the most informative videos you've made, and I really hope the more these issues are brought up, the more the Splat devs may see this discussion and try to fix it. Kinda like how they took out The Reef and other maps from rotation to update them in Splatoon 2. Only time will tell, I suppose.
Great video to you and everyone who helped you put it together!
thank you for the help with it
@@ProChara Anytime!
I didn't play Splatoon 2, was The Reef bad at first? This is surprising to hear if it is the case because I hear only good things from people and I've even heard a lot say it's their favorite Splatoon 2 map
@@Feeble_Weeble It was bad for a little bit but they then reworked it and it was good.
You know, I saw Squid School’s videos on the topic and I wasn’t really able to understand it much, but when I heard “the entire map is a choke point” everything clicked for me
Also, I would really love to see more inkable walls… that’s half the fun!
As a person who loves this franchise and all of it’s aspects who is sometimes frustrated by the gameplay, this video has shed so much light onto things I’ve been feeling but couldn’t describe with proper words
言語化されててもやもやがすっきりしました。いろんなゲームに当てはまる本質がわかりやすく解説されていてなるほどと思いました。開発陣にもこの動画をおすすめしたいです。
2から提示されてる課題を3の新マップがほぼ克服できてない時点で、マップのデザインを居酒屋でプレイヤーの意見を取り入れずに、作ってるだけってのは明確なんだよなぁ…
競技色が強かった2から方針を変え、複雑さを削った結果なんだと思う。スペシャルも脳筋なものが多くて、使うタイミングといった技術があまり要らない。方針が変わらなければ単調で一方的なマップも、脳筋スペシャルも、面白みのないサブスペ構成も変わらないと思う。2のeスポーツ向けの調整が好きだったんだけどなぁ…
@@たれぞう
それは混沌が勝った以上しょうがない
@@dhmo1529 それは違うだろ
作品のテーマじゃなくて環境の方針の話をしてる。スプラ1の頃の流行がイカ世界に戻って来たって設定で作られてるからスペシャルも脳筋なものが多いんや。
@@dhmo1529 I don't think that is a good excuse. Just because the theme of splatoon 3 is chaos does not mean to simplify the maps until they look like hallways and tetris. That sounds more like order than chaos.
Appreciate this huge amount of work, this is what the community really needs instead of just complaining.
めちゃくちゃしっくりくるね
日本語字幕つけてくれた人に感謝感謝
So cool to see the project finally be done! The anticipation for this video was part of what actually inspired me to make my original Mahi reworks in the first place, so it's insane to actually be a part of the real thing.
Wow. Flc described exactly what my experience is like as a blaster main who can't spam special. It feels grouped, it feels like a steamroll, it feels like I'm not doing anything if not killing and forcing the opponents back, it feels like I get found just by association of everything else being I'm the same place.
Pretty similar to how it feels on roller. I just try the same shit over and over and hope for good timing and a better distracting, mechanically predicting the enemy's movements a little better. Very little room to show creativity, which is supposed to be one of the most fun things about roller -- plus you can't lurk or hide out for a moment because the enemy WILL find you just by nature of there being only one or two routes for them to ink.
Meanwhile on charger I feel a huge amount of weight to hold the line against planted opponents while my short-ranged allies die repeatedly.
I personally think the maps are actually the biggest issue with Splatoon 3. Even from a weapon balancing stand point. Yeah Crab is incredibly busted right now because of its range and damage. But if none of the maps change. A Crab nerf is not gonna do a whole lot in the games balance when the overlying issue isn't being resolved. And if they decided to just butcher crab it isn't stopping the other high range weapons from rising to the top because of how poor the map design in this game is.
if the maps were well designed, crab wouldn’t be as big of a problem, like with flounder heights i often see crab tanks get easily flanked and overwhelmed because of the approach options but with a map like eeltail or undertow where there’s no other options or routes to counter it, crab tanks are overwhelmingly strong
I’m a splat charger main who struggles with approaching E-Liters as most maps have a perch for them where being stationary (usually something chargers shouldn’t do) is rewarded. I hate ink vac and desperately want a new kit, but even then I don’t think a special will help stop them from picking off my teammates and I at spawn. I recall many maps in S2 where you would need to use the mini map to catch a flank (vs Flounder or Scorch where you can stare at spawn from mid and tell they’re approaching) but the only one somewhat similar to that that I can think of is Mako Mart.. a S2 map. I didn’t really care for Ancho-V Games, but I’m really starting to miss maps designed like it.
Here's the thing, outside of the closed room "pros" and tournaments with teams, NO ONE USES CRAB AND SPLASH. All i have seen this season, especially in February, is CONSTANT Booyah Bomb and Inkstrike bombardments. No one in any mode is doing the mythical Crab Tank and Splash. Like 95% or higher don't have teams, they don't play tournaments, they aren't S^n+ rank, what they see is combos of every weapon that uses Booyah Bomb(especially Golden Aerospray) and Inkstrike. The Chocolate Splatfest was a pretty damn good example of this too. Nothing but aerial bombardments not letting you do anything. But again, even this can be fixed with map designs being improved
I find it absolutely CRAZY that eeltail changed so much. IT ACTUALLY LOOKS BEAUTIFUL
2:28～ 一度段差を降りたら自陣高台に帰れない、降りたら即袋小路のステージ構成は、スプラ1の時から問題だと思ってた。
塗れない壁が多いと窮屈であり、「突っ込んでいって撃ち合いに勝つか負けるか」しかないゲーム性の大きな原因にもなっている。
あと、「片方のチームだけが登れる（常に片方のチームのインクで塗れており、もう一方の色には塗れない）壁」みたいなギミックがあってもいい。スポンジ設置よりも快適になる。
特にリスポン周辺の壁は、常にリスポン側チームのインクで塗れているようにした方がいい。壁を登ってすぐリスポン地点に戻れるようにすることで「不利チームは段差を降りて即リスキルされるしかない」みたいな事態も防ぎやすくなる。
6:26～ 本当に同意です。チャージャーもそうだけど、裏取りルートが無いから、相手の裏取りを気にすること無くポジションに居座り続ける。
そして縦長ステージによって、雑なポジション取りからでもステージ全体を見渡せる。
そのような戦い方は強いけど、楽しくない。俺がスプラ1でチャージャーを使うのを辞めた理由でもある。強いけど、楽しくはなかった。
チョークポイント
字幕のお陰ですごく納得できた。
みんなが楽しめるゲームになっていってほしい
I’ve been waiting for this video, and yeah the maps feel like they are designed to favor certain weapons, hence why eliter is such a powerhouse in this game, can’t wait to see what else is in the vid!
個人的に日本はスプラトゥーンを最もプレイしている国だと思っているが日本でこのような分析に元ずくステージに対する案を提示しているプレイヤーを見たことは無かった
これが採用されればどれだけ素晴らしいことか……
ただ今の運営にはやり方を提示しても取り合ってもらえるとは思えない
なにか奇跡でも起こってこのようなステージに変更されることを強く願います……
日本はシューターゲーム後進国だからですかね？
もしくは、任天堂が承知の上でスピード感のあるキル合戦主体のパーティゲーム寄りポジションにしたいのかもしれませんが、どうなんでしょうね。
I always knew map design was a problem, but after watching this video, I am convinced of two things:
1) I don’t know how I can play S3 again after seeing these great solutions
2) Nintendo needs to contract Chara & Bipedal as map design advisors
Preach
I agree with 2, but only if Chara keeps solo queue in mind also. Some of his weapon kits and map design are great for comp splatoon, but not so much for solo queue/uncoordinated gameplay.
@@AvatarAang_ Then again, S3's current maps aren't for solo queue anyways. It does contain the whole, pUsH fOrWaRd EaSy GaMePlAy experience that is solo queue, but unlike the current maps you can't be clever to make a sneak attack and try the distract and pick off the stray enemies because of the lack of other options to move.
It's another reason why we need more people to appreciate Splatoon 2's maps more, because at least THEY have a few more options than just "push forward and hope for idiot teammates to paint" style that is solo queue.
@@AvatarAang_ If I actually had the option to pick these things there would be way more done with real testing, the reworks etc take a lot of work, but obviously to put into the actual game requires more work.
@@AvatarAang_ things are always tested. The only Nintendo game that comes to mind that has actual developers who play the game is Smash. I think Splatoon should have that too. But obviously, those are career paths people take & Splatoon is still young.
I’m a Splatana Wiper Main, and I feel like I would enjoy and be better at the game if the maps were more open. I can barely use the stamper half the time because there are to many corners. It does feel very restrictive. And I really do enjoy Splatoon 2’s maps a lot more. (Edit: This is also based off of my skill level at the time. Using a we weapon when you’re at a lower skill level means it’s not entirely the maps fault. I have greatly improved using the stamper!)
やばい、この主さんたちが考えたステージ改善案自由度が格段に上がってめちゃめちゃ面白そう！！開発チームの人には頑張ってほしいな…
2のほうが好きだった理由がよく分かった
自分は人数不利になった時に一歩引いて浮いた敵を1枚落とした後前線を維持する、みたいなスタイルが好きなんだけど、今作は敵が前進してくるルートが少ないから浮いてる敵が少なくて、潜伏キルしても他の敵もすぐそばにいてカバーされちゃうんだな
2みたいにいくつもり攻めるルートがあればどこかで1on1に持ち込めたかもしれないけど、今作はそういうことにはならないんだ…
立ち回り変えて楽しむしかないんだな
今後のステージ改修に期待！
I've noticed that spawn camping and long range weapons seem to have more support from the devs to be used in this game along with these linear maps, which makes turf pretty annoying to play as a casual player. I was so excited to have Mahi Mahi Resort back, but when I saw how drastically it was changed I couldn't help but think "this is it??" The old map seemed so much bigger and approachable from different parts, like you could get attacked from any angle at every turn. New Mahi is just a pair of choke points with an open square in the middle
As someone who only plays turf war casually, it literally feels like race to center and whoever gains control first completely decimates the enemy team
That opening bit from FLC is a great resource to teach newer players how to approach choke points. Honestly, that clip from FLC could be uploaded as an entirely new video.
我々が感じているストレスをわかりやすく表現してくれてありがとう。
私はこの動画がスプラトゥーン開発室に届くことを願っています。
これはほとんどすべてのスプラトゥーンプレイヤーの願いです。
I still remember that Nintendo Japan tweet. Looking for splatoon 3 map designers.
That was sometime after the initial launch trailer with scorch I believe, such a tragedy.
We’re their map philosophies really that terrible? A crampfest? What if that tweet was never posted? What if they were never hired? Would we be here right now? 😢
Good video nonetheless.
Speaking from personal background experience in level and map design- in principle, you guys really nailed it with nearly all of these changes. It makes me very happy to see this kind of productive critique/content instead of the normative "hallway map bad" with no additions past that. To be honest it really hurts seeing just how many genuinely simple changes could drastically alleviate the downright baffling design choices made with many of these maps. However, it also instills a sense of hope seeing that the vast majority of these changes are very realistic. I know a LOT of work goes into these kinds of videos but I would LOVE to see more of them as its not only great content, but also extremely healthy for discussions about the state of the game as a whole. Keep up the fantastic work
Splat 3 Mahi Mahi just makes me sad. Best stage turns into worst stage
If I had to guess *why* this issue with maps being extremely choke-pointy happened. I’m would guess because of turf war. Turf war as a game mode has a problem where both teams can be accomplishing the objective (painting turf) simultaneously without fighting each other. This can lead to games where you have both teams that just go around each other in mid and then just repeatedly paint each others bases. A problem that becomes more common the more options people have to move through the map. Having more choke points avoids this problem as both teams are forced to interact to gain ground. I think you can see this in how the various maps differ between modes. Turf war is almost always the most restrictive layout with the least options for flanks. Because of this I think nintendo made a conscious decision to make the maps more linear overall to force the teams to interact with each other more in turf war. Do I think this was a good decision? God no. But it’s the only one that makes sense in my head to explain why the devs would make such a change.
They ruined turf war, too. It used to be fun and relaxing, where you went to try out new things.
Now it just feels like ranked, without the ranks
Diagnosis: turf war is ass
The problem with that for Turf is then you can so easily get locked in Spawn because. . .again, no flanks.
Is people not fighting in turf war really that big of a problem, tho ? As long as they do the objective and paint, who cares really. Plus, that's the "go chill and have fun" game mode, anyway. If that's the real reason (I really doubt it), that's pretty dumb.
@@whita19 I agree! I want to chill when I play turf war, but now? There is always an enemy coming my way to splat me. It sucks
The wild part is I love the aesthetic of all the maps and I love where it SEEMS they were going with them, and then the problems that y’all mentioned are just confusing little intrusions. Like it would be so easy to make the maps good.
Also imo I’d rather have overtuned maps than stallfests, it’s easier to tighten up flanks and open snipes than it is to have to adjust map design.
Absolutely love your guys’ analysis and agree with every little thing. Hopefully we get some action from devs.
I wanna play on those old map designs so bad 😢
What an incredible idea to make some parts of the map only accessible via squid surge. Turning the kinda pointless mechanic into one that’s risky but can provide an advantage on some maps
Actually being here for the Pro Chara getting popular in Japan arc.
今までステージに対して感じていた不満が言葉に出来ないくらい多かったけど、この動画ではすごく整理されていてスッキリした。
i hope we're fortunate enough to get bigger maps, its so much more difficult to play non-shooter weapons now than it was in the previous games
i come back to this video every now and then to try and feel something
言われてみればまっすぐなステージが多い😢
2の時は裏取りばかりでクソステとか思ってたけど3をやってると裏取りが多かった2がすごく懐かしくなる
The sad thing is when I play Flounder Heights, the map that is probably the least restrictive, players just funnel themselves at the enemy team anyway. That's probably why Devs make hallways and choke points.
Probably because every other map they play on encourages throwing themselves into mid lol
spla2n and especially new splatoon 3 players don’t realize the options they have with flounder heights, which is why you tend to see a bunch of players just throwing themselves towards that left ramp
yep, this vid reminded me of why I genuinely like playing flounder heights sm more then other maps, since I'm always playing into different parts of the map to advance. when I already have mid though it's a bit boring since it's easy to keep hold of it for the rest of the match but for attacking I'm always going at a different angle. I love having to think about which way will offer the best outcome but that just doesn't happen in most of the other maps >->
Felt that WAYYY too hard. I hated flounder heights right when it was released because the maps have conditioned me, a heavy/hydra player who started playing in late splatoon 2 and really got into it during splatoon 3, to play very stationery and stally, use the same perches and snipes all the time, and never utilize any of the options that good maps like flounder provide. Beyond just flanks and alternate routes, these maps also condition me to play way too passively in general and not push when it's the right time to, and I need to get out of this habit.
Seeing the old design of both scourge gorge and eeltail makes me sad that they got so much worse.
それぞれのステージでどの武器も動きやすくなれる改修案、とても良いと思いました！！
特にマサバ海峡大橋での「やっと橋が完成したんですから」、ストーリー的にも考えていて面白かったです
翻訳もほとんど違和感なく納得させられる説明でした。イカ研究所にも届いてほしいですね。
I gotta say this is definitely my favorite video you have made. I really like just how long the video is and just the sheer amount of effort put into place to show that the maps CAN be good with a few changes. I'd really really love to see longer videos like this from you more frequently. Maybe work on one big video at a time and release a bunch of small ones in the meantime. Just a suggestion either way i can't wait to see what ya do next!
pretty much, I have a few other larger stuff planned but they take a LOT of time and resources to make, this one was about 4 months
@@ProChara yea i assumed something like this probably took a while but not 4 months. really love and respect the dedication.
こんなにも愛に溢れた解説をしてくれる海外ニキに感謝。本当にわかりやすく、思っていたモヤモヤを言語化してくれて嬉しいです。
I agree with this a lot! As a player who tends toward shorter ranged weapons, on most maps it feels like if anything outranges me even a tiny bit, I'm just done. I don't have creative options to go and flank around them or do much of anything besides run at them with a teammate and hope we win the fight. Meanwhile, when I tried hydra for the first time, it felt amazing, since all I needed to do was find a ledge somewhere and then suddenly I could shoot basically anyone anywhere on the map. I still play cdeco mostly now, but I really do think that the game (and the meta) would be drastically changed for the better with good map design
Yea it sucks because I loved playing the carbon roller but I can’t even approach the mass majority of weapons without being shot dead immediately.
Even without long range there is still bomb spam and specials like zooka and crab
It’s really astonishing how much something as small as adding/expanding the flank routes can do for certain stages. Scorch Gorge, probably one of my least favorite maps in the game, could easily become one of my favorites with something as small as making the walls along the flanks inkable, and the flanks a little bigger.
Amazing video, It’s nice to have something which sums up my main issue with S3 in such a comprehensive manner 😄
開発が実際にこの動画で紹介されたような良いステージに改修する可能性は低いと思いますが、シーズン3、もしくは4で改善されることを願います。
動画の作成お疲れさまでした！
Great video! As a level designer, I would do a few things differently (mostly incorporating more singleplayer mechanics) but the designs presented in this video are really well executed and I genuinely hope that Nintendo reworks maps in a similar fashion if/when they do.
I may actually take a crack at making 3D mockups of some of these designs when I'm not so busy to see how they would feel just walking around.
It’s so sad that shifty stations aren’t in splatoon 3. They used single player mechanics and were always a really fun mix up.
Also allowed for experimentation of map design in a casual setting.
I don’t think tri color turf war is a good replacement.
@@zacharynovak2180 Actually have a map concept in the works that borrows a lot of design elements from two shifty stations: The Bouncey Twins (The one with bounce pads) and Railway Chillin' (The one with ride rails)
@Buzz-Lightskin You're too sweet. I wouldn't accept any payment, at least not at this stage given I haven't even started properly working due to being in my last semester before I get my degree. Need to focus on that first :)
I'd love to put in more singleplayer stuff (I did a short on it and had ideas like boost pads on flounder) but I wanted to keep it realistic.
@@ProChara Yeah, in trying to keep things realistic, I tried to find things that would match the stage. Like putting ride rails or dash tracks on Wahoo world
Ride rails would have to be removed or changed for rainmaker (ride rails in mid activate after hitting a checkpoint for example) because being able to fire the rainmaker while moving at full speed and scoring points is a problem.
Alot of people think that backings are really bad and unfun on flounder but I think they were just spoiled from all the otheraps being so easy for them. They have to actually choose where to set up, actually watch for flanks, rely on their team etc which they aren't used to, so they think the map is bad when it's not.
Some people might thinks that, but yeah! Flounder is the way you should think as a backline! Position well and watch for flanks.
When I get flanked I don't go "What a load of shit, this map sucks!"
The normal response should be "Fuck! I need to pay attention to that spot."
It keeps you on your toes so the game doesn't get boring and you're not facing the same direction the whole game.
20:05 こういうの凄くいいね！イカノボリ必須なポジションも存在するとかおもろいわ。
I'll say it again when when playing splatoon 3 you choose from 2 playstyles. Either build a wall hoping the opponent just crumbles by themselves or Just constantly smash your head against the wall the opponent has created.
Beautiful analysis - this is what I’ve been thinking the entire time playing Splatoon 3 as well. The fact that there’s fewer maps doesn’t help either, it feels like every Splatoon 3 map is the same. As a splatling player I now feel bad just playing the game - I can literally see everything and everyone from a certain position (especially on hagglefish market) which makes flanks super easy to shut down. In 2 it used to be I never know if anyone was going to come and flank me from behind, now it makes everything very predictable. I hope they bring back some more 2 maps or rework the current 3 ones, they definitely need it. (And DEFINITELY make it so that e liter cant reach across the entire map from their base in brinewater springs)
Same! I'm also a splatling player, and in 2 I always needed to be vigilant. But in 3... it's more the lag that kills me than anything else XD
I wish Nintendo would reach out to you and other pro players to get input on map reworks. You did a great job explaining the flaws of these maps
確かに攻められる所が限られてるし一直線なステージが多いからカニタンクやチャージャーが強くなっちゃうのがやばいんだよな
もう少しスポンジとか登れる壁があれば色々な選択ができて楽しそう
そしてチャージャーよりカニタンクが強いからカニゲーになってる
相手にリス地まで攻められたら更にキツい
勝ち筋がどのステージでも同じ過ぎる
映像がワンパターン
I don't understand why Nintendo won't utilize some of the new mechanics and feature them in map design for ranked game modes. The tutorial feature so many interesting flank ideas: why are there no un-inkable wall areas that have inkable parts or sections to them that require squid surge to maneuver through? Why aren't there more ways to use squid roll as a parkour movement option between walls? Why does Nintendo hate inked wall movement in general? Why are they afraid to use more single-player exclusive hazards and features like moving walls and grind rails? (I can at least see and understand possible latency issues with dash and bounce pads) Do they think it's no intuitive enough and would phase out too many players? I wish they'd allow more freedom for those options to be learned. If Nintendo has learned anything from games like Smash, it's that they underestimate the amount of prowess and skill that determination and persistence can bring about, and Splatoon players are definitely one of their next most persistent, committed communities.
とにかく裏どりが欲しいな
同じ場所から正面と裏両方見れるのが全部悪い動画でもあるけどリス地を広げて打開しやすくしつつ攻めるポイントを増やすコレに尽きる
I think the frequency of updates is also a factor in the failure.
Seasonal games are allowed because they are basically free to play.
The frequency of this update and adjustment is nothing more than negligence in the full-price, online paid splatoon.
I feel like it’s justifiable for splatoon since it’s a multiplayer game
We need to share this video so that Nintendo can see this, these changes need to happen
Exactly!! Tweet this video at Nintendo and say “Hey, we know you guys are trying to improve the game, so maybe this video will help you guys.” 😊
I always wonder if they ever get to see these
@@Dead-Tired_Knight nintendo is not necessarily known for being nice to youtube content creators, so either way I doubt they'll care unless people REALLY complain about it
pole
I find it funny how Nintendo took the concept of highly criticized maps in splatoon 2 like Goby Arena, Walleye Warehouse and Arowana Mall, for being impossible to gain mid after the enemy has it because of how little options you work with, and thought "oh well in this game it's gonna be different !" And then it's not.
スプラ2はずっとハマって遊んでたけど、スプラ3はデフォルトのステージがあんまり楽しくなくてやめてしまった
その理由が言語化されてよく理解できました
細長い、通路みたいなステージよりも色々な選択肢のあるステージで遊びたい
その点、2のバッテラストリートは良かった
とても面白かった！Splatoonへの愛が詰まっていました。任天堂に届く事を祈るとともに、少しでもプレイが楽しくなるようアップデートに努めてほしいです。
cant help but notice how often clam blitz's changes drastically improve the maps by default
The way Clam Blitz plays kind of forced them to make good decisions for that map-mode. Shame they don't really seem to realize it...?
シンプルに凄すぎる、、、
海外の方がここまで詰めてくれるのは誇らしいね、、
ヒラメとか1のリスペクトが感じられてめちゃめちゃいいし楽しそうだと思った
ただスメシの飛び出す渡り廊下は不便さが面白いみたいなとこあるから残して欲しいな🥲
Twitterからです、とても分かりやすい動画でした。速くステージ構造の問題が解決されるといいですね～。
See, I like chokepoint maps. I like how they force you to fight aggressively.
I don't like fighting aggressively every single time, tho. I was wondering why there was such a difficulty spike in this game, and you guys pointed it out perfectly.
I don't normally comment on videos but WOW this really put my feelings into words about the game's general map design. The reworks, especially mahi and wahoo, I really like the idea of. Fantastic work to everybody who contributed to this project!
After Chill 2023, i dont think we will ever see maps like these ever again.
サーモンランのシェケナダムとドンブラコとかもゲームが面白いのにマップがゴミで楽しくないのもったいない
まじでマップが大事
Uninkable surfaces(mainly one-way dropoff walls) are so common in these maps. They really shouldn't be.
まずはステージ改修が先だけど、それが終わったらバッテラを復活させてほしい
あんな神ステを復活させない理由がない
とても分かりやすい解説でした☺️
ステージの改善案もとてもいいと思います👍️
この改善案が公式に採用されてほしい
I’m just amazed by how much thought you guys put into this. It’s good to hear stuff like this from someone who has a lot of experience from the series.😯👍
The most disappointing things imo is how good the stages could have been if they didn’t change anything and the fact that everything said in this video still applies to the most recent maps
In Mario Kart Terms, it's like excitebike arena. Sure it has a lot of variation between games, but in the end you are just going through the same path and corners where basically no skill expression is possible
What I hate about hammerhead, that even your revision couldn't fix, is that they removed the bridge aspect to it. It took place on a bridge under construction, but it itself had a bridge across the entire map! I understand that in Splatoon 3 the bridge is done, but in what way does that require the map's bridge to be removed? Why even make it the same map if you're removing it's namesake?
What a fantastic video! Thank you for taking the time and effort to make this. Also a huge shout out to FLC! Splatoon 3 is my first Splatoon game and I enjoy it very much. But the maps do feel a bit wonky. Your suggestions seem amazing, honestly. It's interesting how, regardless of what aspect in life, the phrase "don't fix what ain't broke" always applies. Going off of this video (as I've never played Splatoon 1) it appears that Splatoon 1 had great designs that didn't really need much change (if any at all). Hopefully we'll see your suggestions be applied in the future
Amazing video! The maps are genuinely the only thing holding this game back from being truly incredibly, it's very frustrating. It's funny how wahoo world was one of the worst maps in S2, yet is now pretty alright in S3 because all the other ones are just that much worse.
It is actually crazy how much better the maps would be if these changes were put into place, man, I hope some reworks happen soon.
One thing I also gotta bring up in Splatoon 3 is the fact that Wipeouts are FAR more common. Like, to the point where you'll have one almost every match. This leads to my theory that the maps were designed so that players are easier to kill, and therefore, give novice players more of a chance to ink more of the stage. But if anything, this makes the game feel more unbalanced as doing Squid Jumps is essentially a one way ticket to instant death, even WITH stealth upgrades because you're cooped up with everyone else, so there's WAY less room for good strategy.
スプラトゥーン3は、このアップデートの頻度でステージの改装もないまま六か月が過ぎてしまい、多くのプレイヤーは新鮮さもない、窮屈なステージに苦しめられ、同じ武器に一方的に殺されるこのゲームに飽きてしまった。
サーモンランがおもしろいからこのゲームを続けていられるけど、もし自分がバトルしかやらないプレイヤーだったらとっくにスプラトゥーンに飽きていると思う。
開発者は何かしらの考えを持ってこのゲームを運営しているのだろうけど、全てが後手に回ってしまい、今のところ何も上手くいっていない。さらにユーザーからの建設的な意見を無視したアップデートを繰り返したことによって結果的に多くのプレイヤーから見放されることになってしまっている。
正直、今の運営には努力も、やる気も、ゲームをより良くしようという向上心も見受けられない。
この動画に携わった人達が運営していたらどれだけ良いゲームになっていたことか…この動画が運営に届くといいね。
As a casual who play all of the modes splatoon 3 has to offer, for a while I was confused about why everyone was complaining about the maps and I personally though they were fine. But to see someone actually addressing the problem and stating solutions is such a breath of fresh air instead of just a small angry mob saying that splatoon 3 is the worst splatoon game because of bad maps. And now, I still think the maps are fine but they REALLY could be improved to the best possible version. I really hope with the power of the algorithm, the splat 3 devs will see this video
I agree as another casual player. Honestly im the type of person to be drawn to what I find more appealing (ex I LOVE mahi mahi because of its whole aesthetic)but gameplay wise these small changes would be so good for the game
As an Octobrush player I naturally look for flank routes and easy ways to get up close the enemies. It’s this kind of map design that I think has made the gameplay of high damage, close range weapons way less fun. To get picks now it sometimes feels like I need to try and run at the enemies head on (basically suicide) or essentially camp in our side of the field (not fun, and pretty annoying and unfair) because of how easy it is for splatlings, chargers, etc. to hold this sort of ground
2では特殊な裏取りルート(イカ速、慣性キャンセル、スフィアスポンジ()のテクニックが必要など)があり、ライト層には受けない(そんなの聞いてないよ！と思われる)ステージが多いように感じてました。
3ではイカロール・イカノボリというアクションが追加になって、先に書いたようなアクションが行いやすくなると楽しみにしていましたが、いざやってみるとステージが単純なのと狭いせいでイカロールはしづらいし、イカノボリに関しては使いどころがよくわからないし、アクション追加した割にはそういうところが残念だな…と思っています。
The old layouts were soooo good. Really hope that they get changed to be at least a little different. Also the Wahoo change to go into the building is hilarious, love it!
I would be soooo happy if most of those changes take place in the future! They could make the game enjoyable again!
The one that was saddest to me was Brinewater. We finally got a map with a really large vertical difference, yet it is one of the worst choke points. I really like the ideas y’all came up with!
11:25 I think it’s a mix of all three, mostly because these stages scream that they were designed around Turf War to me.
I think that Nintendo found that due to the nature of the mode, in Splatoon 1 players would often be split up and not participating in battle as much so as the games progressed, they’ve slowly removed paths and every map has been skimmed down to one path that is a team effort to get through, also to funnel the teams into the center of the map where more fighting will happen.
If you look at the example match you provided, this is exactly what happened. Everyone is fighting in the center of the map and struggling to break into the opposing side, and I think this is what they wanted for turf war.
The only problem is I think they treat ranked as a complete afterthought. We all know that Nintendo designs primarily around their perception of kids, so they think they need to dumb things down like how with Paper Mario they assume kids aren’t smart enough to handle an actual game and strip out everything complicated or that takes effort. And I think they believe in Splatoon that ranked is too complicated so they don’t think about it when designing the maps; turf war is priority number one.
So yeah the maps suck because they’re intentionally designed to be as difficult to manoeuvre as possible for turf war, they aren’t designed for any other mode.
HOLY SHIT that whole segment of like “it makes you want to fight even if you’re a support weapon” etc, or that “it makes you feel trapped / suffocated” i have felt that about the maps since the fucking testfire !!! i thought the maps were so cramped and didn’t have any dynamic level to them. some of them i love with all my heart but mincemeat and hammerhead have always been like. urgh i dont know, suffocating ? and brinewater is WAY too open of a map to even be . Fun.
it’s irritating, the maps feel really bland .
honestly as a new player and someone new to splatoons franchise [but not the genre of game],, for the longest time i couldnt figure out what it was about the game that aggravated me so much [i have game anxiety so i only play casual but yes, i still hate losing] - and then i sat down to watcht this video and a lot of stuff is clicking into place for me.
i didnt realise how the map design was frustrating me until i saw the maps outside of game time and how they could be improved. man. i always try to backdoor or flank the enemy but i cant do that if theres one long narrow set of choke points and no edges for me to surf around. and knowing older games let you do that with their maps does dissappoint me to be honest. im glad i watched this and i also hope the maps will improve going forward
I have a MASSIVE issue with Mahi Mahi Resort. It went from being hands down my favorite map in Splatoon 1 to being borderline unplayable. Every match just boils down to pin or get pinned.
This was an interesting video! The maps in this game have always felt super cramped for some reason, and this is a great explanation of why. Subbed!
Thank you very much for this video!
I have been hesitant to complain about the maps sinceI I figured it was just a change in design philosophy and, while it was different, I didn't think it was necessarily bad. In fact, coming into this game after only casually playing Splatoon 1 & 2, the more linear format of the stages made it a lot easier for me to pick up fundamentals of the game again and get a better feeling of the state of the game at any given moment. Having to defensively manage mid and multiple flanks was a bit hectic and some of my favorite maps were Arowana Mall and Port Mackerel and I suspect, looking back, it was because their more closed off nature was easier for me to conceptually understand and keep track of.
Going into Splatoon 3 a bit more competitively though, I'm starting to feel the limitations of the fight-heavy "push through mid" philosophy the design team decided to go for. The section of the video talking about how difficult it was to push through chokepoints was really well articulated and helped me understand some of the reasons why I dislike seeing certain maps in rotation. I loved the stage reworks and I hope we see some of those design changes or some changes made that achieve the same end-goal in the future.
Thank you again for making this video! And thank you to everyone who collaborated with you. It's clear there was a lot of thought that went into the video and it was very well articulated.
Turf war is the only mode where I don't despise the majority of the layouts, so I've basically quit playing ranked. It's a shame that I have to wait for the decent maps to be in rotation in order to play my favorite modes
This is a really informative and entertaining video and I absolutely love the selection of music for it. Well chosen and diverse sources. Very cool ideas, very cool video.
共感点も多く、非常に分かりやすい動画でした！
i never got into splatoon 3 as much as i wanted to, i was really excited for it. i tried it a couple months back and the map design is horrendous, i never remember having this many games where i just cannot leave spawn on turf war when i played splatoon 2.