@@Dexiefy Wasn’t there a rumor that mining collapses later this first quarter of 2022? In any case, whether it happens next month or next year, we are in a bubble that once it crashes, gpu prices will drop drastically down, even with new gpus because manufacturers will have a harder time selling people on new products
@@Dryloch I already did it back in December. My 12700K @4.9GHz with e-cores and HT off and cache @4.7GHz scores about 5700MT and 730ST in CB20 using MSI Z690-A PRO DDR4 and 32GB of 3800C16 memory . I disabled E-cores and HT since i don't need more than 8 threads and want max single performance since i mostly play older games. For reference about 120W (@65-67C using NH-D15S) in CB20 and about 150W (@73-77C) in Y-cruncher. Still not finetuned Vcore so may be i can lower the temps and power consumption, currently VCore is 1.2V.
@@petkogeorgiev2103 I'd definitely pair it with 16GB if you do more than light office work, for light workstation use even 32GB and then a H670 or B660 Board, the H610 is just really not worth the savings.
Yep, got 1 on order, was going to buy f part but 12100 was listed as same price, it has the uhd 730 , same igpu as i5 11400, so should be ok for office stuff...
@@Jimster481 um, well, funny you should ask....a shop had them listed, the i3 12100f was advertised and in stock then noticed the price was the same for i3 12100 , so purchased that , not realising it wasn't in stock , stock due 23rd Feb... so.... I've paid for it but have to wait another 3 weeks for stock to arrive.... so not that worried but should have checked stock level.....my bad....
Good job, Intel! I just got my 12400F and I'm happy so far, although I have some trouble running the 3600MHz memory at advertised speeds. The 12100F seems like a decent cheap-o alternative that can fit well with most people's budgets. Personally though, I think it's best to get the extra two cores if you can. AMD needs to step up their game if they want to compete against this amazing value.
Try gear 2, or buy a slower kit with aggressive timings. I learned that a 3200 CL14 memory is faster and more stable for my system than 3600 CL16 memory. Even though technically 3600 gear 1 *works*, it's not 100 per cent and I've had a DDR4-3600 kit failing in the past in gear 1 mode, even though the kit was QVL for the motherboard. I think that when you are pushing the memory controller to effectively 1800 MHz speeds, you are basically overclocking it, and you are not guaranteed to get gear 1 stable.
12400 and 12100 performance is so encouraging for budget builds right now. Just waiting on reviews of B660 boards now. Seems like these are taking a lot longer to get out than the last couple of review cycles :(
@@ihebmhamdi3451 Have you seen the H610 mobas from the major manufacturers? For the ~$30 difference for a low end B660, I'll take the extra IO and symbolic VRM heatsinks. If I was desperate enough to game on any CPU, I might consider putting an i3 in one of those boards, but the 12400 has been shown to be powerful enough to handle anything gaming, except for the highest resolutions.
@@ericepperson8409 H610M boards can even handle a 12700 that turbo boosts up to 180watts, the community gives H610 boards shit but they are the best value boards and have all the expansion you really need.
This is shocking to see. Here I thought my 7700k running at 5ghz was still top tier in terms of average performance across the board, but with this i3 revelation, in theory it completely beats it out of the water. This really goes to show how competitive Intel has become with 12th gen. Gonna have to think it over for the next few days whether I upgrade...
Yeah, I chose a 12400F, as I want the PC to last 6+ years (upgrading an 8 year old i5 3470@4GHz now), with a mid-life upgrade of GPU and PCIe 4.0 SSD only. But the 12100F is great money saver if it is to be used just for lighter e-sports, or if the plan is to upgrade the CPU in a few years (needs careful choice of motherboard though, as many cheaper B660 will not be able to make full use of high TDP SKUs. For example, B660 DS3H works perfectly fine with 12400F, but not with 12700K).
Idk your guys regional pricing, but 12400f+cheapest ATX board (like ASUS b660 prime) costs roughly the same as Ryzen 5 5600x + MSI b450 Tomahawk max II for me. I would call 12400f a terrible value because of it. All you get is pcie 4.0, but then you can just spend tiny bit more and just get b550 board and you are golden. As for 12100f, i just got (literally yesterday) 11400f setup with MSI tomahawk b560 for about 10% more than 12100f with garbage MB would cost me. That leaves me with 11700k upgrade potentially (expecting them to quickly lose value) like next year or so, or entire platform swap to a new AMD with DDR5 after prices stabilize.
Depends on your usage. But if you compare this i3 with a budget tier VGA (instead of rx 6900 XT in the review) you could notice tiny difference in fps.
@@christophermullins7163 That would require buying a motherboard with great VRMs now (extra cost), and would still cost more to upgrade (CPU + cooler), than just buying a 12400F now. In that case, it is probably better to buy a 12100F + H610 once they get cheap in a few months, and in a few years time to sell it, and upgrade it to a whole new DDR5, PCIe 5.0 system, available for budget configurations then. But as I'm buying the PC for not very PC-literate gamer, who just wants it to work without much changes and little extra cost for many years, the six-core 12400F+B660 as a PCI-e 4.0 platform is stable, cool, and should be perfectly sufficient.
I love to see AMD & Intel going at it again. I'm sat here with a R5 3600 thinking that the performance doesn't look that good for the Ryzen but then realising that I am going to be GPU limited in every single game and unwilling to pay the current prices to get anywhere near the 6900 XT
@@randomguydoes2901 You can sell your 3600, that is what I did one month later than the 5600X launched. It costed me $118. The best purchase I ever done.
@@illogical1421 I don't think AMD will do that, because they don't need to. Zen 4 will have much higher IPC and clock speed, so the Ryzen 3 7100 should beat the 12100 and get close to the performance of a 5600X on 4 cores anyway, as long as it has enough cache. Maybe we'll see a core-count increase for Zen 5 or for a Zen 4 refresh though. There's a very real chance that the top Zen 4 CPUs will hit 6GHz (on 1 core) if AMD decides to push the silicon to its limits.
this is super impressive that a 4 core part is trading blows with 6 and 8 core parts. very exciting times ahead to see competition in the cpu space! can't wait to see how amd and Intel compete going forward. so far it looks like price creep isn't happening as dramatically as gpus
Because they want people to buy THEIR CPUs, they most likely undersell them a bit to make them more appealing to buy. Anyway I think Ryzen 7th gen will put AMD pretty far up ahead of Intel again..
@@michakrzyzanowski8554 Jajajaja you see News. Ryzen 7000 Finally at 2022, and Second AMD doesn't has Gens anymore only series. Ryzen Series 4000 For Laptops and APUs for OEM Marcket. Ryzen Series 5000 at Final of 2020. Now beginings Of 2022 Ryzen Series 6000 for Laptops and APUs with New Graphics RDNA 2. Final Of year Ryzen Series 7000. Dude AMD not Gens, not anymore only series
£200 b660+£130 core i3 £82.5/core £200 b660+£180 core i5 £63.3/core (and 50% more cache and you'll not need to upgrade for longer). I3 is a false economy. Its like IF they released a super fast overclocksble 2c4t pentium for $40! its faster in gaming but for "reasons" required a $400 z690 board. Yeah the chip is cheap.....how many people get a free motherboard? If you're buying a motherboard aswell factor that in to the total cost. Suddenly 50%more cores and cache for 15% more money seems like better value. Thats before people that are building a whole new system with case and psu and SSDs and coolers etc. £850 i5 6core £800 i3 4core Which would you buy?
@@tomstech4390 Flawed logic - H610 boards exist and will bring down the cost per core as if only an i3 is within budget, you are more likely to go for a cheaper board, PSU, drives, etc. Less likely to pair an i5 with equally priced components if you have the budget headroom. Also, you can see here that the performance difference between the 4 and 6 core Intel chips is minimal, so you are still paying more for a smaller gain.
Thanks Steve, great content piece! Definitely interesting to see how it fares with an H610 though, as that should be the real budget go-to. If it fares almost as well there, I think on the budget side it's just a crazy win for Intel (who would've though?!)
It is so weird feeling this deja vu that Intel is basically pulling an AMD when 3600 was released and combo-ing it with a B450/B550 board and DDR4 and boom, great price performance value.
@Novem's Natural Roll Funny thing is, AM4 is a dead-end platform at the moment, while Intel always supports 2 generations of CPU per, so technically Intel's has a better upgrade path. Funny how that works.
@Novem's Natural Roll amd tried to back away from their initial promises, and were basically forced to be nice by the extreme backlash to offering support for ryzen 5000 only on x570 and b550 chipsets. X370 was completely left in the dust and basically had 3 generations of support as opposed to 2 offered by Intel. That there are now some boards getting bios updates to support 5000 shows that it was possible all along, they just decided they can get away with that bait and switch. And no, excuses like "well they said socket am4 itself will be supported and it is, they never claimed the original chipsets will support all 4 generations planned for the platform". No, this is like saying LGA 1151 had 4 years of support, even if the CPUs were not compatible with older boards.
@@Jimster481 If you buy B450 or B550 right now to build a new machine and expect future upgrades, you must be kinda special. It is end of the road, there will be no more CPUs for it, what you see right now is what you get. You only buy AMD right now if you are satisfied with what you are getting (maybe some clearance or special deal) and do NOT expect to upgrade. Last I checked there are cheaper Z boards, I saw a Gigabyte Z690M DS3H and some Asrock Z board for around 160€ yesterday, which is what I paid for my B550. I don't know if they are any good but seems like a good price to me if you want the option to upgrade later to some 13400 or 13600. Should be fine for an i5 at least. Maybe even 12600K. Or just get a H610 and make AMD's proposition obsolete. I am sorry, I was an AMD supporter when Zen first lauched but at the moment they are what Intel was back then or worse. So right now Intel is the better offer and unless AMD gets back to reality, my next rig will be Intel, regardless if AM5 is good or not. I do not like being made a fool.
@Novem's Natural Roll What Haralampi said. X370 was a scam, B450 was almost a scam, too. If it wasn't for the outrage back then, we'd be buying a new mobo every 2 CPU gens. Surprize, surprize - just like Intel. And now they are teasing support for Zen3 on X370, yet I have not seen a new BIOS for any of the boards that I use, so at the moment it is vaporware, sweet words to make you wait and not buy Intel. AMD are lying through their teeth at the moment and not responding in any way - be it a new CPU or lower prices - to Alder Lake, like if they have the upper hand. They don't. The more they wait, the more people on their platform they lose to Intel.
Impressive performance given the price. AMD are going to have to release something fairly special to compete with Intel at the entry level of the market.
AMD just have to get off their high horse and lower the prices. 3600 to this day costs MORE than what I paid for it at the day of release. 5600G and 5700G are overpriced - AMD APUs were always a bit cheaper than their CPU counterpart, look at 4600G and 4750G, which *by the way* misteriously disappeared. And 5600X is just plain stupid expensive for what it is. They are banking on the fact a lot of us are on the Bx50/Xx70 platform already and a drop in upgrade is technically cheaper than swtiching to Intel and buying a mobo+CPU. That said it is a gut punch to the consumer and I will not upgrade until 5600X is 200$ or less. Or get tired of waiting and just switch to Intel, if my 3600 is no longer up to par (which it is slowly showing signs of, but still adequate). F that, I am not getting milked. Somehow I get the feeling my next CPU will be 12600K, though, as once you get high on your own farts as AMD has, it is hard to come back to reality...
@@tusux2949 Yeah, AMD has abandoned value and it's the reason I didn't get a 5000 series CPU like I was planning. Oh well, I will continue to wait until something looks particularly good.
Yep, AMD products have gone too far in price. A 3600 for a similar price as a 12400? And I won't even bother commenting on the very high prices of AMD motherboards compared to intel equivalents. And you also have to buy high speed ram for AMD otherwise you will cripple CPU speeds severely if using an AMD cpu. AMD is bad value.
Intel should offer bundles CPU+MOBO+ARC GPU for discount. They can take gpu and cpu marketshare and still make great money. We cut shipping cost and get a discount.
Would be nice to see B660 come down just a bit more for the decent motherboards. Although not a bad value, there is just something that aggravates me about spending more on a motherboard than on the CPU. Probably just my bias though.
Also not sure you need a "decent" motherboard for this chip, as he showed it peaks at well under 60w of power draw. Even a terrible VRM should sustain that without breaking a sweat, so even the cheapest $80 h610 boards would be fine in terms of performance
@@jomeyqmalone True, but at 80 bucks probably spend a few more bucks for the B660. I imagine in a month or two as selection is better, price will come down a bit.
It's not really hard to beat AMD at this point, they are not even trying anymore. They did not even bother to release a budget CPU in the Ryzen 5000 lineup lol
@@GATERISTIC sry I wanted to say 5600x I'll edit the comment and yes 5600x cost for around 21k rupees in india with all taxes included so if i convert it into USD it be around 250-260 USD for you
@asfgaghj they will ensure not many get to miners because they are going to mainly target OEMs (mainly laptops) and for open market there will be only very little amount of GPUs on sale or maybe even none at first and then get released later in 2023.
@@mrbobgamingmemes9558 You can’t really make a gpu that’s amazing for gaming and unusable for mining. Mining is inherently designed around how gpus work. And software limitations can be disabled as we have seen
I am in the market for a budget CPU. Was initially set on getting the 10105F. But I think I am gonna go with this one instead, since it's much better than the former and it's the latest
@@Jimster481 bro I appreciate your suggestion. But my budget is around 210 USD with CPU, motherboard and 16gb ram. So if you can suggest me a cheaper one, it would be helpful.
@@Jimster481 Here it comes the AMD fanboy who are salty to see AMD budget gaming got destroyed by Intel. I enjoy all the AMD fanboy tears now since Alder Lake comes out.
@@Jinny-Wa They're a company trying to make money, what did you expect? It's thanks to their competition that Intel was put in a bad enough position that they had to scrap their profit margins and sell huge-ass monolithic "7nm" dies for a lower price than AMD's 7nm+14nm chiplets. I'd rather AMD (Which is a *much* smaller company) make money now so they can't be kicked out of the market later through bribery, like what happened a decade ago. That way both companies can continue to compete on more or less equal grounds and keep CPU prices down. If you want anything else than that you're a fucking idiot.
@@Grimmwoldds Take a bigger L AMD fanboy, AMD got destroyed totally by Intel since Alder Lake comes out. Can't wait to see Raptor Lake destroy Zen 4 even more.
@@runninginthe90s75 You're just as much an intel fanboy, intel did not destroy AMD and passmark scores prove you wrong and all you intel fangirls wrong.
Intel's consumer lineup does not support dual socket computers, for that you would need to roll in the dollar, dollar bills for a new Xeon machine, or just get an older model.
True, but next gen will be happening at the end of this year, where supply constraints should be mostly resolved. The price/performance of Alder Lake will be cap on how high pricing can go for _both_ companies' products, because reviewers like Hardware Unboxed will say "just buy a 12100" if the value isn't there.
@@innocentiuslacrim2290 And by the reveals, Intel domination will span next year as well, Raptor Lake vs 7000 series being a win for Raptor Lake, although AMD will take the gaming crown back with the 3D series for the 5000 and 4D for the 7000.
Excellent work guy! Your reviews and coverage are going from strength to strength! Would love to see you do more collaborations with Moore’s Law is Dead and some investigative journalism too.
I am pretty certain Tech Deals is throwing a fit at this. Unless you're recommending an Octa Core with 16 threads, you're not futureproof, according to him.
future proof for what? It will be slow AF by the time anything is actually makes good use of 16 threads. The only reason to buy that shit is if you already have a need for one.
Tech Deals is right in the fact that more cores are required in the future, but when the future becomes the present, those cores will be slow and you would have already upgraded your cpu anyways, that's why buying something like a 5950x or 12900K just for gaming is stupid.
Dude blocked me on Twitter for disagreeing with him lol. Look, his points do have some merits but he's assuming everyone has the budget for a 12700K or 5600X. I don't have much faith in futureproofing since midrange CPUs these days are plenty powerful enough for the average gamers to last them for years. Just buy a CPU that fits your budget now and upgrade later.
@@monke2361 No, more cores will not "be required". What is required is compute performance. The 12100F has more compute performance than many 6c/12t CPU's so it will always perform better, regardless of whether it's a 2020 game or a 2040 game. Thinking otherwise is stupid.
Why haven't AMD launched more budget-models of the 5000 series? Seems like they have really dropped the ball, and intel is gaining mindshare back fast.
I mean you'd still have to go out of your way to buy a graphics card with the 12100F, especially if you plan on doing any kind of gaming at all. You're better off with an APU at this point. Either grab a 5600g and use the onboard graphics or wait for AMD's RDNA 2 desktop APUs
it took them ages to release budget 3000 series cpus and they didn't have great availability with the supply issues I wouldn't be surprised if budget 5000 cpus just never happen or are just paper lauched
Why should they do it if they can sell more mid high end CPU? Especially their rival Intel is not as much production limited as AMD, Intel can pump many low end CPU without any problems. Also the yield of the TSMC is pretty high, remember that the whole Ryzen line up is based on the same chiplet design, if they have good enough chiplet to sell as 5600X or higher, sell it as Ryzen 3 doesn't makes sense.
@@thebeyonder77777 its only better because of that one though, without competition we might just get more laughable 11k series or near stagnation like the 10 years before
Impressive results honestly. Steve do you think you could get your hands on the non F version and test the UHD 730 with DDR5 and DDR4 ram? There aren't that many videos out there covering the igpu side of things of intel's 12th gen integrated graphics. I'd also LOVE to see a i7-12700k UDH 770 put through the same test. Anyway awesome video!
@@thelawnet That's not the point. You could buy the i3 now and switch to an i9 later. I just want to see what memory bandwidth would make. I imagine it's going to be the same or very similar, mostly because it's limited by the actual igpu cores and the latency of the ram but I don't have the possibility to test it myself.
OMG, awesome review!! Steve, PLEASE do check the h610 boards! Can't wait for that video! There's so much confusion on those, some people say it works for PCIe 4.0 with graphics cards, other people say it only has PCIe 3.0; some people complain it only has 2 slots for RAM, but isn't the optimal number 2 sticks for all the boards anyway?! (I only intend on using 2x 8gb RAM sticks). Absolutely no one says how much performance you're losing with h610, which leads me to believe that for gaming it's just fine and won't have any meaningful impact on performance. I feel like I don't really need the gimmicks of the other boards, I'm not exactly enthusiast and I only want to play games at 1080p. I don't want to overclock anything.. I live in a 3rd world country and each MSRP dollar more is the equivalent of $10 on the prices here, so knowing that h610 will do nicely enough will be really useful for my decision making. Thanks in advance!
You do know that there's a website for each motherboard to look for and download the manual? The RAM confusion was under Intel slides, but cleared up. H610 supports dual channel memory, however, per channel is limited to one slot, instead of two slots like other chipset. You will never see H610 board with the maximum 4 DIMM slots, only 2 DIMM slots. People are often confused with the chipset's PCIE revision. The first PCIE x16 is always connected directly to the CPU, not via the chipset. The rest of the PCIE slots are connected to the chipset. The M.2 slots are connected via chipset, so it's PCIE 3.0.
@@AlfaPro1337 Yes, but I don't understand most things when I read those infos. I'd like to know, in layman's terms, if I'm losing performance on h610 at all, because apparently I'm not. I don't see a reason to use more than dual channel (I know they made a mistake writing it would allow just 1 RAM stick, that would've been a big NO to h610!) and if I can get PCIe gen 4 for the graphics card, I have absolutely no reason at all to buy the more expensive motherboards (even though gen 3 apparently is fine any graphics card other than RX 6500XT). This m2 thing you're talking is the SSD, right? A type that runs faster? A plain old SATA III for me is just fine! I just want something to run this CPU, period! :P knowing in numbers it performs as good as a b660 will be the deciding point I need, so the tests will be really useful! Thanks for the infos :)
With H610+12100F + budget GPU, you are not losing much in possible performance, but are simply losing in future-proofing. Which may be not an issue if the plan is to buy another PC in a few years time, or, say, play just e-sports, not future AAA games with a powerful GPU that push innovations in graphics technology 3-5 years from now. But 12100F+ H610 is not for that anyway.
@@NeblogaiLT Thanks for the thoughts! Definetely not interested in future-proofing, I don't hold much faith in that term at all. The graphics card would be a much more valuable asset for that and current GPUs are barely pushing PCIe gen 4 capabilities as it is. There is the Ray Tracing thing, but I find that laughable in most comparisons I see, definetely not worth the performance hit. It's very likely that this CPU will run most games in a 5 years time since higher IPC is still the more performance-boosting aspect for games a CPU can have. But who knows. Besides that, I really only play single player RPGs. They say a powerful CPU is only really important for competitive online games. I might need a mid-range GPU to run Baldur's Gate 3, though... The recommended requirements for that game lists a 6gb GPU, which's why I'm not buying a current budget GPU option and saving as much as I can for a 6GB model. I'm waiting on Arc GPUs to see if Intel has anything worthwhile for a more just price, since from what I'm reading their cheapest GPU will have 6gb vram! :D here's to hoping there'll be availability!
Hey, Steve! Been following your channel for a long time now and I know you have explained why cpu testing is done at 1080p, with a 6900XT to ensure the test is entirely cpu limited and that you have dedicated at least one entire video if not plenty of Q&A time as well on this. But to appease those that are curious what to expect from a relevant budget gpu such as the 6500XT, or the 3050... what about one slide, one game, demonstrating the expected performance at a relevant resolution, probably 1080p. Maybe picking a single currently relatively popular title. Nothing extensive, but this could add up steadily over time to prove the gpu bound point you make very clear :) Doesn't have to be more than a minute in the video I would say. Again, thanks for the review. Invaluable and in depth as ever
I tend to squat in the upper mid end/low high end market (however you prefer to see it), so this product isn't for me. However, I love to see this kind of thing for budget builders. It's good for the market, it's good for people with less cash, and it's good for the hobby of PC building/gaming.
Imagine if they put e-cores on these lower-end parts. 4p/4e/12t i3s would be ridiculously flexible little chips. Wondering if we'll see that with Raptor Lake...
A mobile one exists with 4 e cores making the total 8c/12t which is insane. I wonder whether or not next gen desktop ones will have them tho, I mean there is a chance if a mobile one exists already and if the next flagship one will have 16 whole whopping e cores if I'm not wrong.
I am waiting for my 12100 to be delivered, I am so excited about going from Core2 Duo, so anybody who thinks it is crap still has no idea what a jump it is for me. I have an older RX 570 to match with it, and Antex NX250 case with 2x 8gb Gskill Ripjaws will round it off. I mean there are CPUs that cost more than this combo. But I am getting new generation of everything going from DDR3 to DDR4. I already run SATA3 SSDs and have an empty new 500MB for my windows install.
@@MrReddragongamingHD I'm hearing you on mobile vs desktop. Over the last 16 years I've gone from a Celeron D to an A-3600 then a 1700X, then 3600. I need mobility now with my job often taking me away so 10300H and RTX2060 in an Acer Nitro 5 works on the road. Back home it goes on a cooling stand and runs my desktop screen/keyboard and mouse. Best investment I ever made.
everything is an improvement over 10th Gen H stuff these days. Its skylake on mobile(low wattage) with low core count, =not great, hell a desktop I5 6000/7000 series are just as fast or faster than your cpu in most cases.
Im thinking of getting this CPU for my dad, it is decently fast in day to day use especially when paired with a fast SSD, I might toss in an RTX 3050 aswell just for kicks and giggles xD
My daughter built her first PC using a 10100 w/ a RX570...served her well for a year and recently upgraded to a 2700x/X470 for streaming. I kept the 10100 and use it as a media center PC and love it! I do want to jump on the 12th gen train eventually, but like you said Steve...boards need to come down in price a little bit. Even 500 series B and H boards are over priced ATM.
It's really good to see actual big generational performance improvements like this again. ESPECIALLY in a price range where it's within reach of most people.
i hope intel doesnt block bclk overclocking on motherboards that allow it. the 12400f and this 12100f are gems when you can bump up the bclk. it reminds me of the old time when overclocking low-end parts to have the performance of high-end parts.
@tilapia dave op's choice is still the better one *now*. The 5600x is still the cheapest zen3 cpu, performs similarly to the more expensive versions, and performs substantially better than this card
nice cpu, if only we can get it for that price :p in my country, it price like 10400f, and a bit lower than 11400f so i better stay on lga 1200 but kudos for intel, they really is back
@@AlfaPro1337 Or maybe not because when considering motherboards prices a 5600x+cheap B450 MAX II board or entry level b550 will cost only 50 bucks or 15% more and the 12400 isn't even faster in games close but not faster, the5600x could just drop down to 250 instead of 280-290 and call it a day, it's really sad honestly i agree but if i was AMD i would probably do the same if my old cpu's are still relevant with current prices, the worst one was probably the 5800x and where i live it already dropped down to 350 and most people would rather upgrade to a 5800x if they had an AM4 platform/cheap mobo istead of selling everything hoping for good prices and then buying a brand new B660+12600K.
@@justetan3566 I wouldn't even pair a B-series chipset for AMD, the most useless chipset in their product stack. For the same tier like Mortar or UD, X570 is just $10-20 higher. Even so, the 12400 is close to the R5 5600X (a low-end CPU by AMD, pre-Evil Su's. standard). It's a no brainer to get it, saving you $100+, and from where I'm from, the 12600 is just $50 more than the 12400. I'll pick that since it has better GPU and base clock. Once again, from where I'm from, it's really tier-to-tier pricing. So i7 is comparable to R7 of the same bundled price. Oh, sadly, with 12th gen B-series board, they are overpriced, even when there's availability. From HUB and etc, the B-series board are overbuild for no goddamn reason. Board vendors should just leave the B-series for cost effective OEM, and not for the consumer to purchase--that was the original intent for the B-series since Sandy Bridge, it was a cost effective version of the Q-series, leaving only 3 chipsets, Hx10, Hx70 and Zx90.
@@AlfaPro1337 where i live the cheapest b450 is like 70 and has strong enough vrms to handle a 5800x ( b450 tomahawk max II/gaming plus max) while cheapest b550 with decent vrms is 100+ or a little worse one is aorund 80-90 while cheap x570 have trash vrms or are just overpriced rn to like 150+. Also, B550 isn't really useless, pcie 4.0 for the gpu and 1 m2 which most people don't even use and has really good vrms and features for the price.
Great review, Steve! I see that most motherboard manufacturers are still trying to maximise their own profits. The only PCIe 5.0 x16 slot motherboards are the higher end Z690 boards - lower priced motherboards only support PCIe 4.0 x16. B660 and H610 mostly only offer PCIe 4.0 x 16. Most mATX motherboards only offer 1 or 2 PCIe x1 slots with the more expensive ones giving you a PCIe 3.0 x16 slot wired to x4. Most manufacturers suck when offering USB ports. USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 ports are only offered in the high end boards and for USB 3.2 Gen 2 ports you need to get the higher priced B660 boards. I will be building an Core i3-12100 for my office use and initially, I thought of using a B660 motherboard. However, with prices being what they are, I think that a H610 board is now a necessity as there is something like a US $20-40 price difference between these. I don't think the difference in VRMs matter that much for non gaming PCs - besides the 12th Gen is less demanding on power than earlier generations. So I look forward to your look at the H610 motherboard offerings!
Looking forward to the H610 board video which makes more sense with the 12100. Even the 12400 should run very well on H610, there seems very little in it between 65W and unlocked power limits. Should be an interesting watch.
From a value perspective here in UK B560 + 10400f is almost the same price as a 12100f + H610 approx £205-£210, that would be an interesting comparison.
Upgraded to 12400f 2 days ago, looking forward to its performance increase in POE S18. 12100f does have decent scores, while 6 cores is an advantage cause many games are now effectively utilized for multi-core usage. The FPS could be less friendly for a 4 cores chip. BTW 12600k is so strong!
People on Reddit get super super mad when I recommend the i3 12100 to people because "In actual modern games, 4 core CPUs are totally worthless, even 6-core CPUs are being phased out". When I show them benchmarks like this it's always "Worthless test, old games, old game engines", but when I ask for any gaming benchmarks showing where the 12100 sucks, I still haven't got a single link. So weird...
Especially considering that the differences only show if you pair it with enthusiast-level GPUs. Pair it with a more reasonable GPU and it'll be on par with the beefiest 12-cores since you're GPU-bound anyway...
Let's just hope no more CP2077's release, since that's the only game so far where the 12100(F) was slightly less impressive (but absolutely doesn't suck!).
What do you expect from trash website full of circlejerk garbage people aka Reddit. Even i already deleted my account 2 years ago and i don't miss those trash old shitty website.
currently not listed on NE (when GN reviewed a few days ago, NE said not sure of future availability)...no sign of it on AMZ...B&H says 2-4 week estimated ETA...however, it is being scalped on EB for $184.19 (plus $22 shipping from Italy to Vegas)...hopefully we're not looking at the 3100/3300x history of availability (but i'm not holding my breath)! that said, the 12400 & 12400F are both currently available on NE for less than $200 with free shipping (12400F is 199.99 and 12400 is 198.99 after promo code)
I rebuilt my pc a month ago, taking my old 1600 and using it as a new home server, and when I went to my local Microcenter planning to buy a 12400, they only had DDR5 motherboards. That perfect priced CPU turned into a $700+ upgrade. Ended up with a 5700G (paid $249), clearence B550 for $79 and 16GB DDR4 3200 ram for the server for $49. I haven’t checked again, but availability of DDR4 motherboards seems to just destroy these chips viability on a budget
I really liked that video showing how Intel learned from the lessons they got previously and improved their CPUs. I hope they will move forward keeping the same spirit that they kept while making the 12th gen Intel Chipsets. I am thinking to build a new pc again but the prices of components are quit high, specially the GPUs and Motherboards.
Quick question. Recently Der8auer found out the it is possible to BCLK overclock non K intel CPUs on ASUS ROG STRIX B660 and some ASUS ROG Z690. He just OCed i3-12100 over 5.3GHz easily without any problem and with simple cooler, even with Intel's stock cooler. In Cinebench R20 it just beat R5 5600X by 70 points!!! Do you have any thoughts on that? Can you cover this much more deeply as always? Price to Performance ratio will definitely change. It can make this CPU easily a GOTO for budget builds. Literally the BUDGET KING. Thanks by the way. Love your deep dived contents.
Looking after you? That is stupid to say when INTEL was the one ass raping you when they had the upper hand. None of these companies are your buddies, they will screw you over at the drop of a hat.
That is why i said its weird, we know what intel did in the past. But all companies in this industry had anti-consumer practices including amd. It's up to us if we allow them and be fanboys. in this case intel is giving us better on gaming than the amd 6 core from last gen is cheaper than 3300x.
Intel is doing this because their fabs have been sitting idle and they've been losing marketshare. They basically had to scrap the stable profit margins they had been maintaining for decades, and make a huge ass monolithic "7nm" die and sell it for less than AMD's 7nm+14nm chiplets. They're doing it to remain relevant, because marketshare is market power, not because they give a shit about you.
I don't see how games are supposed to evolve much besides graphics when people see 20% performance improvement as great. I remember when we were seeing 60% a year in CPUs.
This is once again a very tangible reminder/proof of the fact that most of what we do on PCs in everyday use and casual(ish) gaming doesn't need more than 8 threads at all and instead of high multicore performance benefits more from single-threaded performance. And in many cases, that difference can be quite significant.
Well on occasion I would love to stream when gaming, or run VMs in the background when gaming or just be able to alt tab when gaming to check stuff. I had quad cores up until 2017, I don't think we should be going back on old tech for only one purpose. A PC is not a console and should not be used as a console. Unless of course you can't afford a true PC device.
@@thathandsomedevil0828 I don't know about running VMs while gaming, that will certainly depend on a specific game and VM combo more than anything, but I'm pretty sure you'd be perfectly fine alt-tabbing or streaming using NVENC or equivalent. It is an 8 thread CPU, so for all practical intents and purposes, it's an octa-core, not a quad core. Also who says how a PC should be used. If someone wants to use their PC as a console, it's their choice, just like it's your choice to run VMs on it.
Hey dude, if a person is buying a 5600G or 5700G, they ARE after the iGPU, or they don't know how to shop AMD. Considering prices of GPUs, an APU is something to buy to hold oneself over for the 2 - 3 years it's going to take for prices to come down on GPUs, but even then it's not going to be a big drop in price. A lot of global inflation is here to stay. That's adding about 15 - 20% to the cost of MANUFACTURING GPUs, and then there's all the added cost of shipping, trucking, retail, etc.... and sorry you're not going to see GPUs come down less than 20% over those 2020 listed MSRPs for the RDNA 2 and Ampere parts that released at that time. And if countries don't drop their high import taxes, or GPU production for the western market isn't moved out of China, that's another 20 - 25% cost added to them. So, APUs are a lot more important now for people who want to game at a reasonable price and they don't already have a GPU. But people who buy AMD know their prices fluctuate based on supply. I've seen the 3300X for $125 and seen the 5600X for $240. Right now the 5800X is $300. And smart AMD buyers know this is going to happen, so retail prices don't mean much. I wouldn't buy anything less that a 5600X, PERSONALLY, meaning I don't care what others may do because I want at least that performance in gaming now along with other things I do with the computer. Current pricing, at least for people that can shop Micro center: www.microcenter.com/product/630285/amd-ryzen-5-5600x-vermeer-37ghz-6-core-am4-boxed-processor-wraith-stealth-cooler-included www.microcenter.com/product/630284/amd-ryzen-7-5800x-vermeer-38ghz-8-core-am4-boxed-processor-heatsink-not-included www.microcenter.com/product/639744/amd-ryzen-5-5600g-cezanne-39ghz-6-core-am4-boxed-processor-wraith-stealth-cooler-included www.microcenter.com/product/639743/amd-ryzen-7-5700g-cezanne-38ghz-8-core-am4-boxed-processor-wraith-stealth-cooler-included I've also seen the 5600G for $200 USD and for people who want an APU that's not such a bad buy, but at this point I'd wait for Zen 4 because those APUs are going to be WORLDS better than APUs today. They'll actually be able to give good gaming performance, before using RSR or FSR. So, quoting AMD prices when you're talking about products that are no longer new means that your video is accurate for about one day at least in that regard.
Ryzen 3600 is blown out of the water, in my case i will still consider the 3600 as an upgrade, currently running 2600x oced to 4.1ghz on all cores with a X370 board so thats the only option for me if I want to update on a budget without replacing the motherboard
excellent review, amazing cpu for the very budget minded but I agree with Steve I'd go with the 12400 for a little extra cash, you get a more capable cpu. Though here in Canada a major retailer is charging $230 ($90 more)....in that case the 12100F (at $140) is the better option.
In the US, I was able to buy a b660 board and a 12100f for less than US$100 each. It's incredible value for this performance... if you can find a GPU. The cheapest modern one I could find was a Radeon WX2100 which sell around $50, so still not terrible, but the non-f with an iGPU would be a better option if/when it becomes available (essentially a $30 cost for that one)
Consumer friendly AMD is nowhere to be seen after well over a year. And AMD was there for the consumer the fans said! AMD cares they said! Meanwhile you need intel to bring you value for money every single time....
Many people on RUclips and Reddit are brainwashed idiot, they think AMD is "the good guy" but actually they are worse than Intel and Nvidia, if AMD lead market.
@@lonniebeal6032 and why didnt amd do it? because they make more money this way and don't really care about the consumer even tho they keep saying 'i hear you'.
I think this will be a much better budget move than the 12400/F on most cases for a general purpose computer. I guess this proof that intel is indeed innovating again... Very very interesting...
Feels pretty weird to say that now Intel is the budget king. Used to be AMD's bread and butter, and they've been pretty non-existent in this segment of the market for quite some time. Great benchmarks Steve.
Let's just hope that more and more people looking for budget builds, start building it themselves. I saw an SI prebuild getting ready to launch for over $1000 on BestBuy. It uses a 12100F, 6500XT and 8gb ram. Probably one stick. The worst part is they'll probably sell.
Without the pressure of AMD and RYZEN you would have never seen this chip released in 2022. Intel would have squatted on their incremental upgrade strategy from the last 10 years. This product would have been slated for a 2028 release date at best
With the difference that Ryzen 1xxx series were much worse than existing Intel cpus at that time. Ryzen 1xxx were only better compared to their old FX cpus. For example a 7700K was abolutely trashing the 1800X (both launched at $300 in 2017). AMD had managed to trick people with scores from Cinebench, when in gaming they were quite bad.
$230 in my country. Still a good deal at that price, as it's cheaper than a Ryzen 3600, but it's more than double what I paid for my 1600AF for nowhere near double the performance.
@@johnfreeman5956 350 Dollars for an Intel Quad-Core in 2017 here in Germany...Not even 2 years later an AMD Six-Core for under 200 bucks...oh well, as time passes by
The power efficiency is so good because the max boost clock is only 4.3 GHz. Keep in mind any Alder Lake chip can do that -- you just have to set it so.
'4 cores in 2022? 8 cores barely allow you to boot into windows. You need 12 cores for modern gaming or the frametimes will be terrible. Why are you even reviewing this cpu?' Tech Deals probably
Have you fallen for core count is king argument AMD peddled out? This shows a 4 core cpu outperforming 6 core 3600, or even matching the 8 core 10700k in gaming
![Intel Core i3 14100 Review [Synthetics & 16 Game Benchmark | 1080p]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Tun1xE2ZXhM/mqdefault.jpg)
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
Man, if the gpu market wasn't nuked to shit, budget pc gaming would look pretty sweet with this thing.
It is getting better with every passing week though. Let's jsut hope things won't go to shit again, though nothing points to that happening right now.
Just monitor ethereum.
But if you pair a gtx 1070/1080 rtx 2060 or maybe 6600xt, you should have a good starting or budget friendly system for 1080p gaming
@@Dexiefy Wasn’t there a rumor that mining collapses later this first quarter of 2022?
In any case, whether it happens next month or next year, we are in a bubble that once it crashes, gpu prices will drop drastically down, even with new gpus because manufacturers will have a harder time selling people on new products
Lol how is a 1660 super for 200 a gpu rip off and 1650super for 150
For gaming, especially 1440p, 12100 is on par, even better at times than a 9900K - absolutely insane!!!
Don't rub it in... I am fighting the urge to upgrade my 9900k to a 12700k. Microcenter is selling them pretty cheap right now.
@@Dryloch but why... to get 110 fps instead of 100?
Paging not only 120 for the cpu, but as much for a new motherboard
@@Dryloch I already did it back in December. My 12700K @4.9GHz with e-cores and HT off and cache @4.7GHz scores about 5700MT and 730ST in CB20 using MSI Z690-A PRO DDR4 and 32GB of 3800C16 memory . I disabled E-cores and HT since i don't need more than 8 threads and want max single performance since i mostly play older games.
For reference about 120W (@65-67C using NH-D15S) in CB20 and about 150W (@73-77C) in Y-cruncher. Still not finetuned Vcore so may be i can lower the temps and power consumption, currently VCore is 1.2V.
@@user-wq9mw2xz3j I doubt the increase will be close to that on average (depending on gpu and resolution ofc)
On paper... This a clean test system with not much background tasks. On a regular system the 9900K would probably feel smoother most of the time.
The non-F version would make a great Desktop/Office Machine (up to even non-GPU dependend light workstation workloads)
Yeah! Pair it with an H-series motherboard and 8GB of DDR4 (that you can upgrade later) and you've got a crazy cheap and crazy fast system
@@petkogeorgiev2103 I'd definitely pair it with 16GB if you do more than light office work, for light workstation use even 32GB and then a H670 or B660 Board, the H610 is just really not worth the savings.
Yep, got 1 on order, was going to buy f part but 12100 was listed as same price, it has the uhd 730 , same igpu as i5 11400, so should be ok for office stuff...
@@nix123ism It's usually 10 bucks more, but you get QuickSync and a nice debugging plus it's great if you retire it as a home server, totally worth it
@@Jimster481 um, well, funny you should ask....a shop had them listed, the i3 12100f was advertised and in stock then noticed the price was the same for i3 12100 , so purchased that , not realising it wasn't in stock , stock due 23rd Feb... so.... I've paid for it but have to wait another 3 weeks for stock to arrive.... so not that worried but should have checked stock level.....my bad....
Good job, Intel! I just got my 12400F and I'm happy so far, although I have some trouble running the 3600MHz memory at advertised speeds. The 12100F seems like a decent cheap-o alternative that can fit well with most people's budgets. Personally though, I think it's best to get the extra two cores if you can. AMD needs to step up their game if they want to compete against this amazing value.
The extra cores should keep you going a bit longer into the future too!
Try gear 2, or buy a slower kit with aggressive timings. I learned that a 3200 CL14 memory is faster and more stable for my system than 3600 CL16 memory. Even though technically 3600 gear 1 *works*, it's not 100 per cent and I've had a DDR4-3600 kit failing in the past in gear 1 mode, even though the kit was QVL for the motherboard. I think that when you are pushing the memory controller to effectively 1800 MHz speeds, you are basically overclocking it, and you are not guaranteed to get gear 1 stable.
Have you enabled xmp in bios ? usually fixes ram speeds
Which mobo
Check your vccsa vccio voltages. Going up to 4000mhz or even 5000mhz is a piece of cake with intels (unless your motherboard is a really bad board)
12400 and 12100 performance is so encouraging for budget builds right now. Just waiting on reviews of B660 boards now. Seems like these are taking a lot longer to get out than the last couple of review cycles :(
The best motherboard for those would be the low-end 610 ones.
@@ihebmhamdi3451 Have you seen the H610 mobas from the major manufacturers? For the ~$30 difference for a low end B660, I'll take the extra IO and symbolic VRM heatsinks. If I was desperate enough to game on any CPU, I might consider putting an i3 in one of those boards, but the 12400 has been shown to be powerful enough to handle anything gaming, except for the highest resolutions.
@@ericepperson8409 H610M boards can even handle a 12700 that turbo boosts up to 180watts, the community gives H610 boards shit but they are the best value boards and have all the expansion you really need.
This is shocking to see. Here I thought my 7700k running at 5ghz was still top tier in terms of average performance across the board, but with this i3 revelation, in theory it completely beats it out of the water.
This really goes to show how competitive Intel has become with 12th gen. Gonna have to think it over for the next few days whether I upgrade...
Or you wait for 13th gen. According to Passmark, i3-12100F is faster than 8700K.
@@gurjindersingh3843 yakeen ni hunda sirf 4 gens ch i3 i7 to jyada better ho gya
@@formless3791 Competition nal sab koj ho sak da. NVIDIA nu bhi competition chaidi aa.
7700K is basically a i3-10100 with OC. It'll definitely hold you back in certain games.
It wasn't top tier after zen 2 or even coffee lake
If graphics cards weren't such a shit show. These times would have been such a great time to be a gamer.
12400 feels like better value considering total system costs. Still like you said not a terrible choice if you're penny pinching.
Yeah, I chose a 12400F, as I want the PC to last 6+ years (upgrading an 8 year old i5 3470@4GHz now), with a mid-life upgrade of GPU and PCIe 4.0 SSD only. But the 12100F is great money saver if it is to be used just for lighter e-sports, or if the plan is to upgrade the CPU in a few years (needs careful choice of motherboard though, as many cheaper B660 will not be able to make full use of high TDP SKUs. For example, B660 DS3H works perfectly fine with 12400F, but not with 12700K).
@@NeblogaiLT 12100 and upgrade later to a beastly cpu. This way your setup could last longer than 6 years.
Idk your guys regional pricing, but 12400f+cheapest ATX board (like ASUS b660 prime) costs roughly the same as Ryzen 5 5600x + MSI b450 Tomahawk max II for me. I would call 12400f a terrible value because of it. All you get is pcie 4.0, but then you can just spend tiny bit more and just get b550 board and you are golden.
As for 12100f, i just got (literally yesterday) 11400f setup with MSI tomahawk b560 for about 10% more than 12100f with garbage MB would cost me. That leaves me with 11700k upgrade potentially (expecting them to quickly lose value) like next year or so, or entire platform swap to a new AMD with DDR5 after prices stabilize.
Depends on your usage. But if you compare this i3 with a budget tier VGA (instead of rx 6900 XT in the review) you could notice tiny difference in fps.
@@christophermullins7163 That would require buying a motherboard with great VRMs now (extra cost), and would still cost more to upgrade (CPU + cooler), than just buying a 12400F now. In that case, it is probably better to buy a 12100F + H610 once they get cheap in a few months, and in a few years time to sell it, and upgrade it to a whole new DDR5, PCIe 5.0 system, available for budget configurations then.
But as I'm buying the PC for not very PC-literate gamer, who just wants it to work without much changes and little extra cost for many years, the six-core 12400F+B660 as a PCI-e 4.0 platform is stable, cool, and should be perfectly sufficient.
Good to see that there are capable budget CPUs again! It feels strange though to pay more for the board than for the CPU.
I love to see AMD & Intel going at it again. I'm sat here with a R5 3600 thinking that the performance doesn't look that good for the Ryzen but then realising that I am going to be GPU limited in every single game and unwilling to pay the current prices to get anywhere near the 6900 XT
I'd love to see it but amd hasn't dropped 5000 series pricing much yet. They're kinda relying on the demand
R3 7100 with RDNA 2 or 6c/12t.
@@randomguydoes2901 You can sell your 3600, that is what I did one month later than the 5600X launched. It costed me $118. The best purchase I ever done.
@@illogical1421 I don't think AMD will do that, because they don't need to. Zen 4 will have much higher IPC and clock speed, so the Ryzen 3 7100 should beat the 12100 and get close to the performance of a 5600X on 4 cores anyway, as long as it has enough cache. Maybe we'll see a core-count increase for Zen 5 or for a Zen 4 refresh though.
There's a very real chance that the top Zen 4 CPUs will hit 6GHz (on 1 core) if AMD decides to push the silicon to its limits.
At 1080p nonetheless.
I was waiting for this one! 12100F looks like a great value.
And it's sold out.
What value? Cost of the platform is beyond stupid. No matter how u calculate it AMD costs less!
@@chrisjr6214 Seems that its supply is limited, although you'd get one with a couple weeks of waiting
@@SuperStareGry amd cpu markets right now is fucked
@@SuperStareGry What amd cpu are you taking? In my country the price of a comparable AMD cpu is equal to the price of a 12100f and mobo together.
this is super impressive that a 4 core part is trading blows with 6 and 8 core parts. very exciting times ahead to see competition in the cpu space! can't wait to see how amd and Intel compete going forward. so far it looks like price creep isn't happening as dramatically as gpus
Because they want people to buy THEIR CPUs, they most likely undersell them a bit to make them more appealing to buy.
Anyway I think Ryzen 7th gen will put AMD pretty far up ahead of Intel again..
@@SadMatte but ryzen is only 4th gen now, 7th is planned for 2025-26
@@michakrzyzanowski8554 Jajajaja you see News. Ryzen 7000 Finally at 2022, and Second AMD doesn't has Gens anymore only series.
Ryzen Series 4000 For Laptops and APUs for OEM Marcket.
Ryzen Series 5000 at Final of 2020.
Now beginings Of 2022 Ryzen Series 6000 for Laptops and APUs with New Graphics RDNA 2.
Final Of year Ryzen Series 7000.
Dude AMD not Gens, not anymore only series
You Beauty!!! 12MB Cache 4C8T with Modern IPC
Steve, can you do 12100f vs 4790k/7700K systems?
12100f is cheaper and better for gaming than ryzen 3600. We have new budget cpu king!
its 35-40% cheaper than 3600 here in India, defo best value right now.
motherboard price is garbage
£200 b660+£130 core i3
£82.5/core
£200 b660+£180 core i5
£63.3/core (and 50% more cache and you'll not need to upgrade for longer).
I3 is a false economy. Its like IF they released a super fast overclocksble 2c4t pentium for $40! its faster in gaming but for "reasons" required a $400 z690 board.
Yeah the chip is cheap.....how many people get a free motherboard?
If you're buying a motherboard aswell factor that in to the total cost.
Suddenly 50%more cores and cache for 15% more money seems like better value.
Thats before people that are building a whole new system with case and psu and SSDs and coolers etc.
£850 i5 6core
£800 i3 4core
Which would you buy?
@@tomstech4390 Flawed logic - H610 boards exist and will bring down the cost per core as if only an i3 is within budget, you are more likely to go for a cheaper board, PSU, drives, etc. Less likely to pair an i5 with equally priced components if you have the budget headroom. Also, you can see here that the performance difference between the 4 and 6 core Intel chips is minimal, so you are still paying more for a smaller gain.
@@tomstech4390 I can get a $95 B660 ASRock board... You are lying at pricing
Thanks Steve, great content piece!
Definitely interesting to see how it fares with an H610 though, as that should be the real budget go-to. If it fares almost as well there, I think on the budget side it's just a crazy win for Intel (who would've though?!)
I mean 5300G & 5300X don't exist, so there is basically no competition but intel is still very competitive.
@@gurjindersingh3843 5300G does exist, it's just not available for retail
There is a $95 ASRock B660 board available.
Some B660 boards go for just 10 bucks more for alot more features, including gen 4 pcie
@@GamerBoy705_yt I got a 5300g used for cheap.
Its nothing special, unless you’re using the igpu, 12100 wins hands down.
It is so weird feeling this deja vu that Intel is basically pulling an AMD when 3600 was released and combo-ing it with a B450/B550 board and DDR4 and boom, great price performance value.
They kinda had to
@Novem's Natural Roll Funny thing is, AM4 is a dead-end platform at the moment, while Intel always supports 2 generations of CPU per, so technically Intel's has a better upgrade path. Funny how that works.
@Novem's Natural Roll amd tried to back away from their initial promises, and were basically forced to be nice by the extreme backlash to offering support for ryzen 5000 only on x570 and b550 chipsets. X370 was completely left in the dust and basically had 3 generations of support as opposed to 2 offered by Intel. That there are now some boards getting bios updates to support 5000 shows that it was possible all along, they just decided they can get away with that bait and switch. And no, excuses like "well they said socket am4 itself will be supported and it is, they never claimed the original chipsets will support all 4 generations planned for the platform". No, this is like saying LGA 1151 had 4 years of support, even if the CPUs were not compatible with older boards.
@@Jimster481 If you buy B450 or B550 right now to build a new machine and expect future upgrades, you must be kinda special. It is end of the road, there will be no more CPUs for it, what you see right now is what you get. You only buy AMD right now if you are satisfied with what you are getting (maybe some clearance or special deal) and do NOT expect to upgrade.
Last I checked there are cheaper Z boards, I saw a Gigabyte Z690M DS3H and some Asrock Z board for around 160€ yesterday, which is what I paid for my B550. I don't know if they are any good but seems like a good price to me if you want the option to upgrade later to some 13400 or 13600. Should be fine for an i5 at least. Maybe even 12600K. Or just get a H610 and make AMD's proposition obsolete.
I am sorry, I was an AMD supporter when Zen first lauched but at the moment they are what Intel was back then or worse. So right now Intel is the better offer and unless AMD gets back to reality, my next rig will be Intel, regardless if AM5 is good or not. I do not like being made a fool.
@Novem's Natural Roll What Haralampi said. X370 was a scam, B450 was almost a scam, too. If it wasn't for the outrage back then, we'd be buying a new mobo every 2 CPU gens. Surprize, surprize - just like Intel. And now they are teasing support for Zen3 on X370, yet I have not seen a new BIOS for any of the boards that I use, so at the moment it is vaporware, sweet words to make you wait and not buy Intel.
AMD are lying through their teeth at the moment and not responding in any way - be it a new CPU or lower prices - to Alder Lake, like if they have the upper hand. They don't. The more they wait, the more people on their platform they lose to Intel.
Impressive performance given the price. AMD are going to have to release something fairly special to compete with Intel at the entry level of the market.
Yup! This is what competition looks like: excellent performance for a reasonable price. Keep it up, Intel!
AMD just have to get off their high horse and lower the prices. 3600 to this day costs MORE than what I paid for it at the day of release. 5600G and 5700G are overpriced - AMD APUs were always a bit cheaper than their CPU counterpart, look at 4600G and 4750G, which *by the way* misteriously disappeared. And 5600X is just plain stupid expensive for what it is. They are banking on the fact a lot of us are on the Bx50/Xx70 platform already and a drop in upgrade is technically cheaper than swtiching to Intel and buying a mobo+CPU. That said it is a gut punch to the consumer and I will not upgrade until 5600X is 200$ or less. Or get tired of waiting and just switch to Intel, if my 3600 is no longer up to par (which it is slowly showing signs of, but still adequate). F that, I am not getting milked. Somehow I get the feeling my next CPU will be 12600K, though, as once you get high on your own farts as AMD has, it is hard to come back to reality...
@@tusux2949 Yeah, AMD has abandoned value and it's the reason I didn't get a 5000 series CPU like I was planning. Oh well, I will continue to wait until something looks particularly good.
@@Jimster481 i can buy it in Australia lol
Yep, AMD products have gone too far in price. A 3600 for a similar price as a 12400? And I won't even bother commenting on the very high prices of AMD motherboards compared to intel equivalents.
And you also have to buy high speed ram for AMD otherwise you will cripple CPU speeds severely if using an AMD cpu.
AMD is bad value.
Intel should offer bundles CPU+MOBO+ARC GPU for discount. They can take gpu and cpu marketshare and still make great money. We cut shipping cost and get a discount.
they will, but for AIB's, SI's and OEM's, but for an end user, it probably won't happen but let's have some hope :)
Also hopefully the driver issues happend on iris xe wont happend on intel arc
That's what OEMs do for you, xd
I'm a proud owner of a 10100f and it's quite great to see, what its younger brother does to the market. Crushing it!
Would be nice to see B660 come down just a bit more for the decent motherboards. Although not a bad value, there is just something that aggravates me about spending more on a motherboard than on the CPU. Probably just my bias though.
Judging from past generations, I think it's safe to assume that B660 will be a lot more affordable in 3 to 6 months.
Right on point
Also not sure you need a "decent" motherboard for this chip, as he showed it peaks at well under 60w of power draw. Even a terrible VRM should sustain that without breaking a sweat, so even the cheapest $80 h610 boards would be fine in terms of performance
@@jomeyqmalone True, but at 80 bucks probably spend a few more bucks for the B660. I imagine in a month or two as selection is better, price will come down a bit.
@@GeminionRay Or at least start getting some open box options!
It's not really hard to beat AMD at this point, they are not even trying anymore. They did not even bother to release a budget CPU in the Ryzen 5000 lineup lol
ryzen 5000 lineup is literally crushing the 12th gen in gaming performance
5600x is still a beast cpu for mid range
@@anupsonawane1420 🤡
@@anupsonawane1420 A $700 cpu is mid range? fucking aye.
@@anupsonawane1420 deletedis
@@GATERISTIC sry I wanted to say 5600x I'll edit the comment and yes 5600x cost for around 21k rupees in india with all taxes included so if i convert it into USD it be around 250-260 USD for you
intel slaying the CPU game at the moment, lets hope they do the same with GPU's
Also hopefully it is piece of garbage for mining
@asfgaghj they will ensure not many get to miners because they are going to mainly target OEMs (mainly laptops) and for open market there will be only very little amount of GPUs on sale or maybe even none at first and then get released later in 2023.
@@mrbobgamingmemes9558 That is simply not possible unfortunately. A good gaming card will always be good for mining too.
@@mrbobgamingmemes9558 You can’t really make a gpu that’s amazing for gaming and unusable for mining. Mining is inherently designed around how gpus work. And software limitations can be disabled as we have seen
@@mrbobgamingmemes9558 You can't have both.
What really matters is how it performs in very CPU intensive games, and wow I was sceptical but it definitely excided my expectations
I am in the market for a budget CPU. Was initially set on getting the 10105F. But I think I am gonna go with this one instead, since it's much better than the former and it's the latest
@@Jimster481 bro I appreciate your suggestion. But my budget is around 210 USD with CPU, motherboard and 16gb ram. So if you can suggest me a cheaper one, it would be helpful.
I’d just get a 12100 and some h610 motherboard and pair with a 16gb 3200 kit. There’s literally no reason to go amd honestly.
Hold on! A 1st gen ryzen threadripper is going for 200 USD? What is going on? Isn't it worth more?
@@Jimster481 1 dimm per channel means 1 stick 1 slot.It can use dual channel
@@Jimster481 Here it comes the AMD fanboy who are salty to see AMD budget gaming got destroyed by Intel. I enjoy all the AMD fanboy tears now since Alder Lake comes out.
This is awesome deal for sure, looking forward to what Intel will do to ripple through the GPU market.
i got the one with the gpu in it. for the sake of a few cents, but im blown away its destroying some of my recent i7
a few years ago AMD was the no-brainer budget choice, now their 5600x is crazy expensive
A few years ago AMD wasn't also making PC, PS5 and XBSX APUs on the same node.
@@Grimmwoldds Always the excuses. Now they could drop the price since they get money from both Sony and M$
@@Jinny-Wa They're a company trying to make money, what did you expect? It's thanks to their competition that Intel was put in a bad enough position that they had to scrap their profit margins and sell huge-ass monolithic "7nm" dies for a lower price than AMD's 7nm+14nm chiplets.
I'd rather AMD (Which is a *much* smaller company) make money now so they can't be kicked out of the market later through bribery, like what happened a decade ago. That way both companies can continue to compete on more or less equal grounds and keep CPU prices down. If you want anything else than that you're a fucking idiot.
@@Grimmwoldds Take a bigger L AMD fanboy, AMD got destroyed totally by Intel since Alder Lake comes out. Can't wait to see Raptor Lake destroy Zen 4 even more.
@@runninginthe90s75 You're just as much an intel fanboy, intel did not destroy AMD and passmark scores prove you wrong and all you intel fangirls wrong.
2:29 Is there any dual socket LGA1700 motherboard? I feel like it would be a massive deal to get two of these CPUs instead of any of its big brothers.
Just go for 12700
Intel's consumer lineup does not support dual socket computers, for that you would need to roll in the dollar, dollar bills for a new Xeon machine, or just get an older model.
Wow, Intel going for the lower cost. I doubt AMD responds in this market.
True, but next gen will be happening at the end of this year, where supply constraints should be mostly resolved. The price/performance of Alder Lake will be cap on how high pricing can go for _both_ companies' products, because reviewers like Hardware Unboxed will say "just buy a 12100" if the value isn't there.
If AMD hasn't released lower end CPUs this late, yeah it's very unlikely until next gen.
@@benjaminoechsli1941 same supply for another cycle I think. (CPU seem to ok now. It's just gfx cards. / Waste of electricity.
Intel is beating AMD in each non-server CPU segment at the moment.
@@innocentiuslacrim2290 And by the reveals, Intel domination will span next year as well, Raptor Lake vs 7000 series being a win for Raptor Lake, although AMD will take the gaming crown back with the 3D series for the 5000 and 4D for the 7000.
The only relevant unboxing channel that I still watch
really impressive little guy. imagine having this back when quad-core CPUs were the standard.
Excellent work guy! Your reviews and coverage are going from strength to strength! Would love to see you do more collaborations with Moore’s Law is Dead and some investigative journalism too.
I am pretty certain Tech Deals is throwing a fit at this. Unless you're recommending an Octa Core with 16 threads, you're not futureproof, according to him.
Future proofing is a fools errand, just think about what you need right now and overbuy by 1 tier and it should hold you for 5 years.
future proof for what? It will be slow AF by the time anything is actually makes good use of 16 threads. The only reason to buy that shit is if you already have a need for one.
Tech Deals is right in the fact that more cores are required in the future, but when the future becomes the present, those cores will be slow and you would have already upgraded your cpu anyways, that's why buying something like a 5950x or 12900K just for gaming is stupid.
Dude blocked me on Twitter for disagreeing with him lol. Look, his points do have some merits but he's assuming everyone has the budget for a 12700K or 5600X. I don't have much faith in futureproofing since midrange CPUs these days are plenty powerful enough for the average gamers to last them for years. Just buy a CPU that fits your budget now and upgrade later.
@@monke2361 No, more cores will not "be required". What is required is compute performance.
The 12100F has more compute performance than many 6c/12t CPU's so it will always perform better, regardless of whether it's a 2020 game or a 2040 game. Thinking otherwise is stupid.
Why haven't AMD launched more budget-models of the 5000 series? Seems like they have really dropped the ball, and intel is gaining mindshare back fast.
probably due to TSMC
I mean you'd still have to go out of your way to buy a graphics card with the 12100F, especially if you plan on doing any kind of gaming at all. You're better off with an APU at this point. Either grab a 5600g and use the onboard graphics or wait for AMD's RDNA 2 desktop APUs
@@chrisjr6214 But APUs are trash in term of value and performance even compared to the awful 6500xt.
it took them ages to release budget 3000 series cpus and they didn't have great availability with the supply issues I wouldn't be surprised if budget 5000 cpus just never happen or are just paper lauched
Why should they do it if they can sell more mid high end CPU? Especially their rival Intel is not as much production limited as AMD, Intel can pump many low end CPU without any problems. Also the yield of the TSMC is pretty high, remember that the whole Ryzen line up is based on the same chiplet design, if they have good enough chiplet to sell as 5600X or higher, sell it as Ryzen 3 doesn't makes sense.
It's ironic how things have turned and AMD is now to be criticized for unreasonable prices and Intel releasing budget friendly, good vfm cpus.
I got a tray 12100 (with igpu) for 98 usd about two weeks ago, and it's performance is very satisfactory.
Alder lake will go down to history as one of the best launches
Better than overpriced 5000 series launch
@@thebeyonder77777 yes
@@TheFirestriker101 AMD 5000 barely had IPC gains
@@thebeyonder77777 its only better because of that one though, without competition we might just get more laughable 11k series or near stagnation like the 10 years before
@@thebeyonder77777 Same story with 6000 series on laptop, it still based on Zen3++ and it already got destroyed by Intel Alder Lake mobile CPU.
Amazing Video, thanks Steve!
Impressive results honestly. Steve do you think you could get your hands on the non F version and test the UHD 730 with DDR5 and DDR4 ram? There aren't that many videos out there covering the igpu side of things of intel's 12th gen integrated graphics. I'd also LOVE to see a i7-12700k UDH 770 put through the same test. Anyway awesome video!
you wouldn't use DDR5 RAM with an i3, too expensive.
@@thelawnet That's not the point. You could buy the i3 now and switch to an i9 later. I just want to see what memory bandwidth would make. I imagine it's going to be the same or very similar, mostly because it's limited by the actual igpu cores and the latency of the ram but I don't have the possibility to test it myself.
Newegg U.S is currently scalping the 12100f for $177. $30 more gets you the 12400 at Newegg, that cpu has 50% more cores and an igpu.
Ordered the 12400 for $198 and cant wait for it to come in. Excited to try windows 11 too regardless of what the haters say :p
Might be worth mentioning if used on a B660 board with external clockgen you can bclk OC this to 5.0+ghz
great info :D thx for sharing!
Why is it worth mentioning that pairing a $100 cpu with a $400 motherboard allows you to bclk overclock it....
@@samgoff5289 there are options from Asus in 250 USD range
@@adammarks4491 still an atrociously priced combo. And we know that Asus is never the best value in term of VRM capabilities.
@@PainterVierax there is a cheap b660 ddr4 Mobo currently in testing. Which will support blck oc under 150€.
OMG, awesome review!! Steve, PLEASE do check the h610 boards! Can't wait for that video! There's so much confusion on those, some people say it works for PCIe 4.0 with graphics cards, other people say it only has PCIe 3.0; some people complain it only has 2 slots for RAM, but isn't the optimal number 2 sticks for all the boards anyway?! (I only intend on using 2x 8gb RAM sticks). Absolutely no one says how much performance you're losing with h610, which leads me to believe that for gaming it's just fine and won't have any meaningful impact on performance. I feel like I don't really need the gimmicks of the other boards, I'm not exactly enthusiast and I only want to play games at 1080p. I don't want to overclock anything.. I live in a 3rd world country and each MSRP dollar more is the equivalent of $10 on the prices here, so knowing that h610 will do nicely enough will be really useful for my decision making. Thanks in advance!
You do know that there's a website for each motherboard to look for and download the manual?
The RAM confusion was under Intel slides, but cleared up. H610 supports dual channel memory, however, per channel is limited to one slot, instead of two slots like other chipset. You will never see H610 board with the maximum 4 DIMM slots, only 2 DIMM slots.
People are often confused with the chipset's PCIE revision. The first PCIE x16 is always connected directly to the CPU, not via the chipset. The rest of the PCIE slots are connected to the chipset.
The M.2 slots are connected via chipset, so it's PCIE 3.0.
@@AlfaPro1337 Yes, but I don't understand most things when I read those infos. I'd like to know, in layman's terms, if I'm losing performance on h610 at all, because apparently I'm not.
I don't see a reason to use more than dual channel (I know they made a mistake writing it would allow just 1 RAM stick, that would've been a big NO to h610!) and if I can get PCIe gen 4 for the graphics card, I have absolutely no reason at all to buy the more expensive motherboards (even though gen 3 apparently is fine any graphics card other than RX 6500XT).
This m2 thing you're talking is the SSD, right? A type that runs faster? A plain old SATA III for me is just fine! I just want something to run this CPU, period! :P knowing in numbers it performs as good as a b660 will be the deciding point I need, so the tests will be really useful! Thanks for the infos :)
With H610+12100F + budget GPU, you are not losing much in possible performance, but are simply losing in future-proofing. Which may be not an issue if the plan is to buy another PC in a few years time, or, say, play just e-sports, not future AAA games with a powerful GPU that push innovations in graphics technology 3-5 years from now. But 12100F+ H610 is not for that anyway.
@@NeblogaiLT Thanks for the thoughts!
Definetely not interested in future-proofing, I don't hold much faith in that term at all. The graphics card would be a much more valuable asset for that and current GPUs are barely pushing PCIe gen 4 capabilities as it is. There is the Ray Tracing thing, but I find that laughable in most comparisons I see, definetely not worth the performance hit. It's very likely that this CPU will run most games in a 5 years time since higher IPC is still the more performance-boosting aspect for games a CPU can have. But who knows.
Besides that, I really only play single player RPGs. They say a powerful CPU is only really important for competitive online games. I might need a mid-range GPU to run Baldur's Gate 3, though... The recommended requirements for that game lists a 6gb GPU, which's why I'm not buying a current budget GPU option and saving as much as I can for a 6GB model. I'm waiting on Arc GPUs to see if Intel has anything worthwhile for a more just price, since from what I'm reading their cheapest GPU will have 6gb vram! :D here's to hoping there'll be availability!
@@AlfaPro1337 so that means all h610 boards only have 2 ram slots?
Hey, Steve! Been following your channel for a long time now and I know you have explained why cpu testing is done at 1080p, with a 6900XT to ensure the test is entirely cpu limited and that you have dedicated at least one entire video if not plenty of Q&A time as well on this. But to appease those that are curious what to expect from a relevant budget gpu such as the 6500XT, or the 3050... what about one slide, one game, demonstrating the expected performance at a relevant resolution, probably 1080p. Maybe picking a single currently relatively popular title. Nothing extensive, but this could add up steadily over time to prove the gpu bound point you make very clear :) Doesn't have to be more than a minute in the video I would say. Again, thanks for the review. Invaluable and in depth as ever
He has done "CPU Scaling Benchmarks" in the past, look them up. Hope he does one again.
The fact that this is beating the R5 3600 which is still selling for about 200+ used...
@@tilapiadave3234 You mean just like intel was for the last 5 years? Sad that you people don't have any flexibility.
Thanks a bunch! This review gave me a really good perspective of how this CPU performs. Glad I purchased one. Appreciate it.
How would it do with an NVidia GPU? Does the extra NV driver overhead impact in the DX12 titles at all or is the chip powerful enough to handle it?
I tend to squat in the upper mid end/low high end market (however you prefer to see it), so this product isn't for me. However, I love to see this kind of thing for budget builders. It's good for the market, it's good for people with less cash, and it's good for the hobby of PC building/gaming.
Imagine if they put e-cores on these lower-end parts. 4p/4e/12t i3s would be ridiculously flexible little chips. Wondering if we'll see that with Raptor Lake...
A mobile one exists with 4 e cores making the total 8c/12t which is insane. I wonder whether or not next gen desktop ones will have them tho, I mean there is a chance if a mobile one exists already and if the next flagship one will have 16 whole whopping e cores if I'm not wrong.
Raptor Lake is rumored to add 8 E cores, so the i3-13100 would be 4P + 8E, even better
@@kirby0louise Multi-core performance would get much better with additional 8 E cores. I hope they do it.
@@kirby0louise If this is true, the hypothetical i3-13100 would have the same number of cores as i7-12700H. Doubt it, but if it happens, very nice.
I am waiting for my 12100 to be delivered, I am so excited about going from Core2 Duo, so anybody who thinks it is crap still has no idea what a jump it is for me. I have an older RX 570 to match with it, and Antex NX250 case with 2x 8gb Gskill Ripjaws will round it off. I mean there are CPUs that cost more than this combo. But I am getting new generation of everything going from DDR3 to DDR4. I already run SATA3 SSDs and have an empty new 500MB for my windows install.
had it for 6 months, and still love it !
If it's an improvement on the 10300H in my laptop it'll do really well in games with a mid-range GPU. Keep up the good stuff guys!
It's significantly better. Not surprising when comparing mobile vs desktop chips.
It should be quite a bit better, but I think I'd get the 6 core 12400F instead tbh - and yes I am running a 10300H laptop like you do as well.
Big difference. At $110 this is a beast.
@@MrReddragongamingHD I'm hearing you on mobile vs desktop. Over the last 16 years I've gone from a Celeron D to an A-3600 then a 1700X, then 3600. I need mobility now with my job often taking me away so 10300H and RTX2060 in an Acer Nitro 5 works on the road. Back home it goes on a cooling stand and runs my desktop screen/keyboard and mouse. Best investment I ever made.
everything is an improvement over 10th Gen H stuff these days. Its skylake on mobile(low wattage) with low core count, =not great, hell a desktop I5 6000/7000 series are just as fast or faster than your cpu in most cases.
Im thinking of getting this CPU for my dad, it is decently fast in day to day use especially when paired with a fast SSD, I might toss in an RTX 3050 aswell just for kicks and giggles xD
Thats basically a high-end 1080p gaming pc then.
@@Superiorer might even do 1440p with DLSS 🤔
Dang budget builds are finally getting some pretty nice upgrade.
My daughter built her first PC using a 10100 w/ a RX570...served her well for a year and recently upgraded to a 2700x/X470 for streaming. I kept the 10100 and use it as a media center PC and love it! I do want to jump on the 12th gen train eventually, but like you said Steve...boards need to come down in price a little bit. Even 500 series B and H boards are over priced ATM.
Now you just need a top quality value motherboard.
It's really good to see actual big generational performance improvements like this again. ESPECIALLY in a price range where it's within reach of most people.
Try overclocking it. I got mine at basically almost as fast as a 5600x. But to be fair I don't know which boards can all do it. But it's crazy good.
Which board do you have?
TDP?
i hope intel doesnt block bclk overclocking on motherboards that allow it. the 12400f and this 12100f are gems when you can bump up the bclk. it reminds me of the old time when overclocking low-end parts to have the performance of high-end parts.
Oh wow you can overclock a $100 cpu with a $400+ motherboard INSANE! /s
@@samgoff5289 there are $200 motherboards that can do it as well.
Surprised you didn't mention the nutty performance gains by BLCK overclocks on certain boards. this cpu is honestly way too good for what it is.
A review should be using replicable parameters,but overclocking is unreliable.
Thank you for including Factorio and clang compilation performance. Really useful
The 10100F, 10105F, 12100F, 13100F and 14100F are great CPU's that AMD has nothing to counter with.
"Eventhough it's a 4 cores part you may have to adjust your expectation " - because it's better than even the last gen 6 cores
If I didn't already have a Ryzen 5600X build done back in 2020, this is amazing. I'd jump at this if I were building a new system at the moment.
@tilapia dave op's choice is still the better one *now*. The 5600x is still the cheapest zen3 cpu, performs similarly to the more expensive versions, and performs substantially better than this card
nice cpu, if only we can get it for that price :p
in my country, it price like 10400f, and a bit lower than 11400f
so i better stay on lga 1200
but kudos for intel, they really is back
Great review and good CPU .. AMD needs to adjust prices asap
They won't, since Evil Su took it and went full Intel/Nvidia with it.
@@AlfaPro1337 Or maybe not because when considering motherboards prices a 5600x+cheap B450 MAX II board or entry level b550 will cost only 50 bucks or 15% more and the 12400 isn't even faster in games close but not faster, the5600x could just drop down to 250 instead of 280-290 and call it a day, it's really sad honestly i agree but if i was AMD i would probably do the same if my old cpu's are still relevant with current prices, the worst one was probably the 5800x and where i live it already dropped down to 350 and most people would rather upgrade to a 5800x if they had an AM4 platform/cheap mobo istead of selling everything hoping for good prices and then buying a brand new B660+12600K.
@@justetan3566 I wouldn't even pair a B-series chipset for AMD, the most useless chipset in their product stack.
For the same tier like Mortar or UD, X570 is just $10-20 higher.
Even so, the 12400 is close to the R5 5600X (a low-end CPU by AMD, pre-Evil Su's. standard). It's a no brainer to get it, saving you $100+, and from where I'm from, the 12600 is just $50 more than the 12400. I'll pick that since it has better GPU and base clock.
Once again, from where I'm from, it's really tier-to-tier pricing. So i7 is comparable to R7 of the same bundled price.
Oh, sadly, with 12th gen B-series board, they are overpriced, even when there's availability. From HUB and etc, the B-series board are overbuild for no goddamn reason.
Board vendors should just leave the B-series for cost effective OEM, and not for the consumer to purchase--that was the original intent for the B-series since Sandy Bridge, it was a cost effective version of the Q-series, leaving only 3 chipsets, Hx10, Hx70 and Zx90.
@@AlfaPro1337 where i live the cheapest b450 is like 70 and has strong enough vrms to handle a 5800x ( b450 tomahawk max II/gaming plus max) while cheapest b550 with decent vrms is 100+ or a little worse one is aorund 80-90 while cheap x570 have trash vrms or are just overpriced rn to like 150+.
Also, B550 isn't really useless, pcie 4.0 for the gpu and 1 m2 which most people don't even use and has really good vrms and features for the price.
AMD's ryzen 3 lineup is dead, they aren't competing in this price range
Great review, Steve!
I see that most motherboard manufacturers are still trying to maximise their own profits. The only PCIe 5.0 x16 slot motherboards are the higher end Z690 boards - lower priced motherboards only support PCIe 4.0 x16. B660 and H610 mostly only offer PCIe 4.0 x 16.
Most mATX motherboards only offer 1 or 2 PCIe x1 slots with the more expensive ones giving you a PCIe 3.0 x16 slot wired to x4. Most manufacturers suck when offering USB ports. USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 ports are only offered in the high end boards and for USB 3.2 Gen 2 ports you need to get the higher priced B660 boards.
I will be building an Core i3-12100 for my office use and initially, I thought of using a B660 motherboard. However, with prices being what they are, I think that a H610 board is now a necessity as there is something like a US $20-40 price difference between these. I don't think the difference in VRMs matter that much for non gaming PCs - besides the 12th Gen is less demanding on power than earlier generations. So I look forward to your look at the H610 motherboard offerings!
But why can't we still see any price cuts on the 5600x...?!?!
Even Ryzen 3600 is still asking for $200, nevermind the 5600x. I dont know why but looks like AMD dont care about budget segment anymore
Looking forward to the H610 board video which makes more sense with the 12100. Even the 12400 should run very well on H610, there seems very little in it between 65W and unlocked power limits. Should be an interesting watch.
From a value perspective here in UK B560 + 10400f is almost the same price as a 12100f + H610 approx £205-£210, that would be an interesting comparison.
You can get an ASRock B660 board for only $95
Would have been cool to compare it to a 6700K/7700K.
Upgraded to 12400f 2 days ago, looking forward to its performance increase in POE S18. 12100f does have decent scores, while 6 cores is an advantage cause many games are now effectively utilized for multi-core usage. The FPS could be less friendly for a 4 cores chip. BTW 12600k is so strong!
People on Reddit get super super mad when I recommend the i3 12100 to people because "In actual modern games, 4 core CPUs are totally worthless, even 6-core CPUs are being phased out". When I show them benchmarks like this it's always "Worthless test, old games, old game engines", but when I ask for any gaming benchmarks showing where the 12100 sucks, I still haven't got a single link. So weird...
Especially considering that the differences only show if you pair it with enthusiast-level GPUs.
Pair it with a more reasonable GPU and it'll be on par with the beefiest 12-cores since you're GPU-bound anyway...
Let's just hope no more CP2077's release, since that's the only game so far where the 12100(F) was slightly less impressive (but absolutely doesn't suck!).
What do you expect from trash website full of circlejerk garbage people aka Reddit. Even i already deleted my account 2 years ago and i don't miss those trash old shitty website.
I have the 3600 and I’m happy with it no game can max it out so it’s still a very
Good cpu pulled like 11k+ in cinebench r23 so that’s good
Tech Deals screaming "never buy a CPU with less than 24 cores!"
"4 cores for gaming is stupid!"
LoL, and 16gigs of RAM are not enough neither! :D
Think I'll continue to sit on my 1600af. Got it new at $85 (when it came out) and still serving me well, not even overclocked.
Look at intel today, maybe that is the power of a tech-background CEO? But of course the lineups usually should be planned years go.
currently not listed on NE (when GN reviewed a few days ago, NE said not sure of future availability)...no sign of it on AMZ...B&H says 2-4 week estimated ETA...however, it is being scalped on EB for $184.19 (plus $22 shipping from Italy to Vegas)...hopefully we're not looking at the 3100/3300x history of availability (but i'm not holding my breath)!
that said, the 12400 & 12400F are both currently available on NE for less than $200 with free shipping (12400F is 199.99 and 12400 is 198.99 after promo code)
should definitely have the 12400 in the comparison table
It has 2 mores cores and some extra L3.
@Kai there is 10600k and 11600k. Just assume 10400 and 11400 to be lower than the k series.
@Kai yea I don't understand..the 11600k is right there are you incapable of brain power to assume performance?
I rebuilt my pc a month ago, taking my old 1600 and using it as a new home server, and when I went to my local Microcenter planning to buy a 12400, they only had DDR5 motherboards. That perfect priced CPU turned into a $700+ upgrade. Ended up with a 5700G (paid $249), clearence B550 for $79 and 16GB DDR4 3200 ram for the server for $49. I haven’t checked again, but availability of DDR4 motherboards seems to just destroy these chips viability on a budget
I really liked that video showing how Intel learned from the lessons they got previously and improved their CPUs. I hope they will move forward keeping the same spirit that they kept while making the 12th gen Intel Chipsets. I am thinking to build a new pc again but the prices of components are quit high, specially the GPUs and Motherboards.
Quick question. Recently Der8auer found out the it is possible to BCLK overclock non K intel CPUs on ASUS ROG STRIX B660 and some ASUS ROG Z690. He just OCed i3-12100 over 5.3GHz easily without any problem and with simple cooler, even with Intel's stock cooler. In Cinebench R20 it just beat R5 5600X by 70 points!!!
Do you have any thoughts on that? Can you cover this much more deeply as always? Price to Performance ratio will definitely change. It can make this CPU easily a GOTO for budget builds. Literally the BUDGET KING.
Thanks by the way. Love your deep dived contents.
Finally, a product within our budget, it's weird but thanks intel for looking after us lol, hope to see intel's gpu come to the market
Looking after you? That is stupid to say when INTEL was the one ass raping you when they had the upper hand. None of these companies are your buddies, they will screw you over at the drop of a hat.
@@oldtimergaming9514 finally someone with sense
@@oldtimergaming9514 if it was up to intel we would all have quad cores and paying double for every extra 2 cores lmao
That is why i said its weird, we know what intel did in the past. But all companies in this industry had anti-consumer practices including amd. It's up to us if we allow them and be fanboys. in this case intel is giving us better on gaming than the amd 6 core from last gen is cheaper than 3300x.
Intel is doing this because their fabs have been sitting idle and they've been losing marketshare.
They basically had to scrap the stable profit margins they had been maintaining for decades, and make a huge ass monolithic "7nm" die and sell it for less than AMD's 7nm+14nm chiplets.
They're doing it to remain relevant, because marketshare is market power, not because they give a shit about you.
I don't see how games are supposed to evolve much besides graphics when people see 20% performance improvement as great. I remember when we were seeing 60% a year in CPUs.
This is once again a very tangible reminder/proof of the fact that most of what we do on PCs in everyday use and casual(ish) gaming doesn't need more than 8 threads at all and instead of high multicore performance benefits more from single-threaded performance. And in many cases, that difference can be quite significant.
Well on occasion I would love to stream when gaming, or run VMs in the background when gaming or just be able to alt tab when gaming to check stuff. I had quad cores up until 2017, I don't think we should be going back on old tech for only one purpose. A PC is not a console and should not be used as a console. Unless of course you can't afford a true PC device.
@@thathandsomedevil0828 I don't know about running VMs while gaming, that will certainly depend on a specific game and VM combo more than anything, but I'm pretty sure you'd be perfectly fine alt-tabbing or streaming using NVENC or equivalent. It is an 8 thread CPU, so for all practical intents and purposes, it's an octa-core, not a quad core.
Also who says how a PC should be used. If someone wants to use their PC as a console, it's their choice, just like it's your choice to run VMs on it.
@@Case_ I just find it myopic that any would opt for a quad core over more advanced stuff. I guess the 7 extra frames per second is worth it.
Hey dude, if a person is buying a 5600G or 5700G, they ARE after the iGPU, or they don't know how to shop AMD. Considering prices of GPUs, an APU is something to buy to hold oneself over for the 2 - 3 years it's going to take for prices to come down on GPUs, but even then it's not going to be a big drop in price. A lot of global inflation is here to stay. That's adding about 15 - 20% to the cost of MANUFACTURING GPUs, and then there's all the added cost of shipping, trucking, retail, etc.... and sorry you're not going to see GPUs come down less than 20% over those 2020 listed MSRPs for the RDNA 2 and Ampere parts that released at that time. And if countries don't drop their high import taxes, or GPU production for the western market isn't moved out of China, that's another 20 - 25% cost added to them. So, APUs are a lot more important now for people who want to game at a reasonable price and they don't already have a GPU.
But people who buy AMD know their prices fluctuate based on supply. I've seen the 3300X for $125 and seen the 5600X for $240. Right now the 5800X is $300. And smart AMD buyers know this is going to happen, so retail prices don't mean much. I wouldn't buy anything less that a 5600X, PERSONALLY, meaning I don't care what others may do because I want at least that performance in gaming now along with other things I do with the computer. Current pricing, at least for people that can shop Micro center:
www.microcenter.com/product/630285/amd-ryzen-5-5600x-vermeer-37ghz-6-core-am4-boxed-processor-wraith-stealth-cooler-included
www.microcenter.com/product/630284/amd-ryzen-7-5800x-vermeer-38ghz-8-core-am4-boxed-processor-heatsink-not-included
www.microcenter.com/product/639744/amd-ryzen-5-5600g-cezanne-39ghz-6-core-am4-boxed-processor-wraith-stealth-cooler-included
www.microcenter.com/product/639743/amd-ryzen-7-5700g-cezanne-38ghz-8-core-am4-boxed-processor-wraith-stealth-cooler-included
I've also seen the 5600G for $200 USD and for people who want an APU that's not such a bad buy, but at this point I'd wait for Zen 4 because those APUs are going to be WORLDS better than APUs today. They'll actually be able to give good gaming performance, before using RSR or FSR.
So, quoting AMD prices when you're talking about products that are no longer new means that your video is accurate for about one day at least in that regard.
Ryzen 3600 is blown out of the water, in my case i will still consider the 3600 as an upgrade, currently running 2600x oced to 4.1ghz on all cores with a X370 board so thats the only option for me if I want to update on a budget without replacing the motherboard
save some more and go for 5600x, x370 boards will get ryzen 5000 series support pretty soon
@@fardeenkabir1642 Yeah I would consider a 5600x or 5800x as well, 3600 clearly makes no sense here lol
Which X370? If it is the Arock pro4 or taichi then the latest bios supports zen 3
@@andrewcross5918 all the other manufacturers are also likely to follow suit very soon
excellent review, amazing cpu for the very budget minded but I agree with Steve I'd go with the 12400 for a little extra cash, you get a more capable cpu. Though here in Canada a major retailer is charging $230 ($90 more)....in that case the 12100F (at $140) is the better option.
In the US, I was able to buy a b660 board and a 12100f for less than US$100 each. It's incredible value for this performance... if you can find a GPU. The cheapest modern one I could find was a Radeon WX2100 which sell around $50, so still not terrible, but the non-f with an iGPU would be a better option if/when it becomes available (essentially a $30 cost for that one)
Must have been a sale, as the B660 is $139 on newegg and the 12100 was more...
R23 single threaded?
Consumer friendly AMD is nowhere to be seen after well over a year. And AMD was there for the consumer the fans said! AMD cares they said!
Meanwhile you need intel to bring you value for money every single time....
true dat
Many people on RUclips and Reddit are brainwashed idiot, they think AMD is "the good guy" but actually they are worse than Intel and Nvidia, if AMD lead market.
Your statement is a lie, jeez you fanboys.
@@runninginthe90s75 Neither of them are the good guys, they are both in it for the money. This new i3 is an open market since AMD didn't do it.
@@lonniebeal6032 and why didnt amd do it? because they make more money this way and don't really care about the consumer even tho they keep saying 'i hear you'.
Glad you are covering the h610 in a future video, thought it would be in this one as well as an MSFS benchmark
Great stuff. Not to be annoying, but the 10400F is around the same price, so would have been useful to include IMO
I think this will be a much better budget move than the 12400/F on most cases for a general purpose computer. I guess this proof that intel is indeed innovating again... Very very interesting...
Feels pretty weird to say that now Intel is the budget king. Used to be AMD's bread and butter, and they've been pretty non-existent in this segment of the market for quite some time.
Great benchmarks Steve.
Let's just hope that more and more people looking for budget builds, start building it themselves. I saw an SI prebuild getting ready to launch for over $1000 on BestBuy. It uses a 12100F, 6500XT and 8gb ram. Probably one stick. The worst part is they'll probably sell.
A remarkable little CPU, when the motherboards even out some i'll grab on for my son i think.
You can get an ASRock B660 board for $95 right now. Or $130 for a B660 board with more fancy features
I'm holding out for price drops on b660 and either the 15 12400/12500 or the i5 12600.
Without the pressure of AMD and RYZEN you would have never seen this chip released in 2022.
Intel would have squatted on their incremental upgrade strategy from the last 10 years.
This product would have been slated for a 2028 release date at best
Really good job from Intel then.
Damn, Intel is having Ryzen moment when it was launched back in 2017 !
Great to see!
With the difference that Ryzen 1xxx series were much worse than existing Intel cpus at that time.
Ryzen 1xxx were only better compared to their old FX cpus. For example a 7700K was abolutely trashing the 1800X (both launched at $300 in 2017).
AMD had managed to trick people with scores from Cinebench, when in gaming they were quite bad.
$230 in my country. Still a good deal at that price, as it's cheaper than a Ryzen 3600, but it's more than double what I paid for my 1600AF for nowhere near double the performance.
Wow $230 for a quad core? What year is this 2016? I hope that's only a supply issue and not a permanent price hike.
@@johnfreeman5956 350 Dollars for an Intel Quad-Core in 2017 here in Germany...Not even 2 years later an AMD Six-Core for under 200 bucks...oh well, as time passes by
@@Dark88Dragon Time flies - today the 12100f is
@@Dark88Dragon Yeah, if you said to me 16 core CPUs below $1000 are gonna be a thing back in 2016 I would have laughed.
The power efficiency is so good because the max boost clock is only 4.3 GHz. Keep in mind any Alder Lake chip can do that -- you just have to set it so.
'4 cores in 2022? 8 cores barely allow you to boot into windows. You need 12 cores for modern gaming or the frametimes will be terrible. Why are you even reviewing this cpu?' Tech Deals probably
Stop
Wtf 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Have you fallen for core count is king argument AMD peddled out?
This shows a 4 core cpu outperforming 6 core 3600, or even matching the 8 core 10700k in gaming
@@SmokeSolo1975 it was a joke about tech deals lol 😂
@@SmokeSolo1975 Ya, sure, you only need one core to run a game the 30 plus background programs in Windows.