Magnacut Q & A: Our Next Steps
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
- With the threat of potential litigation over publicly sharing our experiences with CPM Magnacut, this video outlines our next steps. In short, we're going to continue to stand on observations and objective data to guide our way. Transparency and third party lab testing will bring everything to light soon enough. Until then, we'll keep working hard and making massive progress toward getting this chapter behind us.
Guy, please get an attorney. If you try to go toe to toe with their attorney, you stand a very good chance of losing. I learned a long time ago that when things get into the court system, our concept of common sense and logic goes out the window; it's a totally different world with a completely different set of rules.
Hey George, I'm honestly not even looking for compensation or new materials at this point. This is just about getting to the facts and spreading awareness.
They have provided no information to refute my claims or observations and they're continuing to hold my material samples hostage. Their position on this is abundantly clear to me at this point.
If they feel they have something they can actually litigate, I guess it will go that route, but otherwise, I don't want to handle this through an attorney.
It is more important to me to be able to talk about this stuff openly, something I would not be able to do if I attempted any kind of litigation.
All that being said.... What's going on with Magnacut orders?...... Are you switching steels? How far back do the pre-orders go?.... I have been waiting over a year for my GSO 5.1 in magnacut.... I don't want a refund, I'm fine with waiting, just would like an update on the orders....Even if you were like "we are working oct 2021 orders and have enough magnacut to fulfill 109 more" or something like that..... Thanks Guy...... keep up the good work
Hey buddy, we are working on the orders and getting through the backlog pretty quickly now. Check out yesterday's video. If we fall too far short, due to inconsistencies that are unacceptable for our standards, I will order another sheet or two to get things closed out.
If the material has improved, we will talk about that. If it's more of the same, we will talk about that too.
All that said, we are also cultivating other options, because I know some people just don't want this material anymore. I trust what leaves my shop, but I also can't blame them, especially after everything I've seen here.
Thank you so much for the support and for your patience as we get the last of this resolved. 👊
You post a lot of these videos but your direct communications to your customers is non-existent. Not everyone who made an order after the DBK video has taken the time to watch all this drama. You have customers => communicate!
I apologize, we have made many videos regarding what happened during that time and what we've been doing since to get this situation resolved. Unfortunately, at a very critical time, Peters Heat Treating decarburized our entire production, including all of our GSO 5.1 blades meant for those orders. It has been a monumental task to recover from that situation.
So far we have not been able to get this resolved with them, and with the ongoing quality inconsistencies regarding magnacut, progress has been slower than we would have liked. That being said, we are working through it and bringing those orders to a close.
We had hoped to have more help with customer service by now but unfortunately things did not work out with Tyler. You were fortunate to run into a great human being, Lucinda, who just took over that role part time and she has been making great progress on improving communication. I do apologize for any poor communication, I have personally been trying to prioritize getting work done, which doesn't leave room in my day for much else besides eating and sleeping.
Please know that we are working on communication as well as getting all these orders closed out, as quickly as possible. I do very much appreciate your patience and understanding as we get this situation resolved.
Get a Lawyer, Remember when in the courts "it is a "legal" system not a justice system.
I'm not looking for anything at this point but getting to the truth. The lab results will be in soon enough. 👍
Sorry but I think it is best to build knives, reduce backlog and let lawyers fight lawyers.
If I were to retain a lawyer and try to litigate this, I would need to stop talking about it publicly. I believe that's what they want. It is more important to me to get down to the facts and spread awareness. I'm not looking for anything at this point but getting to the truth.
And don't worry, Paul. We are getting on top of things, just check out yesterday's update. I've got this, but these things still need to be talked about. 👍
The shameful part is when a PhD metallurgist ignores your plea for a discussion and conversation about the situation.
The thing that is really hanging you out there is the lack of corroborating information from other manufacturers. I have no doubt you’re encountering voids. I can see the pictures. With as much MagnaCut on the market now and as many manufacturers working with it someone has to have encountered the same problem.
Other folks have reached out with a variety of issues, but most are not willing to go public, at least not yet. A lot of people are heavily vested in this material and speaking out would threaten that investment. Hell, I didn't even feel comfortable speaking up until I had some viable alternatives on my floor. I just quietly ate the loss.
As a follow up, most high-volume shops probably wouldn't see some of the things that I do, just because of the fast paced nature of that environment. With the benefit of more information and understanding, I also question why so many of these supposed super steels on the market have thick coatings on them. This video also explains a lot. ruclips.net/video/KcX44dMUlVI/видео.htmlfeature=shared
At this point I think that your going to have to get an attorney just to get your attorney fees and to ether limit your liability or to show loss . And unfortunately a counter suit may be the only course of action to protect yourself and your company. I just ordered another knife wish i could do more for you brother . 3 deep in orders and as soon as i see some product i will purchase more . I support you and your decisions an have been enjoying your scientific method to disseminate the root of the issue. Have you reached out to fellow makers in your circle that use the same product that have had similar issues? I pray for the best . God bless you and your family.
I will start by saying I’m not a metallurgist. I have watched probably all your videos on this subject. I watched other videos where some others on YT are saying that it’s your processes to include the peening but they aren’t watching the fact that you’re seeing it in all stages.
Based on the basics I know of PM steel, it would probably move a little more during heat but the whole point of PM steel is that there’s less voids because it’s made from a powder. MC supposed to check a lot of boxes with minimal negatives.
Back to your point in the video. Transparency doesn’t matter if you’re a small company or a big company. They are trying to censor you by litigation.
I’m with you Guy to know the truth! Nigra Specialty Metals: send Guy his samples back so he can do his own analysis!
Guy, as the previous poster stated get an attorney or at the very least stop communicating with theirs at this point. They are not going to respond to you any further because they are not going to prove your case for you. That's legal 101 with matters like this. They are going to hold their findings to argue against you, in court. You will need at the very least to have an independent expert report that shows the deficiencies within the material. If the voids are within the material they will be in the raw sheets supplied. It would be best to take one or a few of those sheets before you run through any process and have them x-rayed. If it confirms your findings then the facts cannot be disputed. The raw materials untouched are defective. But you trying to talk technical specifics with their attorney is a mistake.
We have new samples being investigated under SEM right now. I'm honestly not looking to litigate this from my end. I just want to get to the bottom of this, to spread awareness.
They denied my warranty based on reports they will not share with me, and now they are holding my material samples hostage, refusing to return them. If anything, I will hire an attorney to get my property back or look at what the threshold is for theft. Once the lab findings come back, I doubt they will continue to have incentive to hold my samples. They are only delaying the inevitable at this point.
As a follow up, at least by my understanding, if they are claiming defamation, the burden of evidence is on them. I'm not hiring an attorney to fight this game their way. I don't want to lose my ability to talk publicly about these things. They will only be able to hide in the shadows for so long. Once the reports come in, it's game over.
Keep up the good fight, Guy. Never back down and never give up! The transparency you have shown and your relentless dedication to quality have won me over as a customer. I have a Gso 3.5 factory 2nd in 20cv, still dont know why it's a 2nd, dut it has to be the nicest knife i own and im looking forward to getting more, no matter how long it takes. Thank you and your team for your hard work, Survive! Rocks!
Thank you so much for the kind words and support! Knowing you folks enjoy what you are receiving makes all the hard work and sacrifice worth it.
Knife maker you are, a very good one to boot. And while I don’t know you, respectfully, I don’t believe you’re an attorney. You very well may have a very legitimate issue. But, negotiating a legal system will cost you, one way or the other. Be safe.
I'm just looking for the truth at this point. Their position seems pretty clear, I'm not even looking for compensation. They had their chance.
I will definitely avoid using Cpm steels for my knife projects.
Talk about the worse customer service ever. Question them and the sue you
Pathetic
Yeah, the other steel companies have been watching this with great interest and amusement.
Guy, are you in touch with other manufacturers using Magnacut that are experiencing the same problems? There are videos online disparaging you and also saying they believe the problem lies in your processes. Just curious why others don’t seem to have the same magnacut issues.
Others are reaching out, but most are not willing to go public, at least not yet. I think once the lab testing comes back, more folks will feel emboldened.
Yeah they’re just threatening to see if you back down and don’t seem to be backing up their threatened bite with any teeth.
I made the offer several times to remove any content critical of this material, if they would just provide evidence to refute my observations. Their silence is deafening. I don't want anything from them but my material samples back.
Respect sir. You are now the only company from whom I would buy American steel tools
I admire you. I despise bullies.
Thank you, I'll keep fighting. More folks are reaching out now, with similar experiences. I'm excited for the lab testing to come back.
NSM - the "Boeing" of steel world...
Haha! Thank you for that. 😂
Is there any problem with the gai cpm3v steel and will it affect its performance
Keep up the great work! 💪
Thanks Man!
How much for an edc3 made out of that aluminum can!
In response to some things I was seeing online, I was looking for a disrespectfully delicate thing to surface finish. I'm glad that cold brew can found my eyes in the recycling bin.
Some knife people might not understand it, but what I'm doing is used in aerospace applications. My process isn't the problem here, I hope that is abundantly clear after this.
They got something to hide
Guy - you need to get a lawyer to protect your family and company, as they won't be looking to end you based on facts or fairness... You punched the rude bully in the face in front of all the other schoolkids, and now they're waiting to stab you in the alley.
Appreciate you sharing everything in transparency, but there is absolutely zero use in trying to use logic in negotiating with THEIR attorney - its his/her job to twist what they can to his own clients advantage. Button-up and factually document your case. Go on offense and prepare a case to sue them for lost earnings. I woulkd rather see you go dark on this matter and update us all at a later stage the great news that you're still making high quality knives for us all to enjoy purchasing & using.
They have made their position clear at this point. They don't stand behind their work, and refuse to admit there could even be a problem. This is just a fact finding mission at this point, I'm not even interested in fighting with them over any sort of compensation anymore. Getting to the bottom of this and posting it all online is repayment enough for me. They've made their bed with all these silly tactics, now they can lay in it.
Im following this and hope it turns out well for all sides and come to a good solution for you.
Time will tell. I have been requesting information or a solution but instead have gotten only threats.
WTF, you haven't sued them yet?
Wait a minute... You don't have a lawyer yet, you're counting on the goddamn Plaintiff to be honest and do your due diligence, ie. to tell you what's wrong with your process? Yikes man!
You can't possibly expect that strategy to work.
You're going to need to get analytical testing done so you have some evidence... hopefully supporting your position.
Hope you get the answers you desperately need and the best of luck to you.
Let me be very clear on this, it can cost a shit load of money to sue somebody, especially a large corporation. Even if we are right, that could get dragged out for years. That being said, we are wrapping up our first bits of scientific analysis now, and will be posting all of that information publicly. With access to better materials now, we can survive the loss. This is just about getting to the truth of the matter at this point. The reason I mentioned Niagara is that they denied my warranty, based on some secret "reports" they claim to have but will not share with us.
I hope what your looking for is worth it. You have a lot of people invested in you.
We are getting the work done, it has been a lot easier with the momentum that better materials have provided.
I'm not looking for anything at this point. They have made their position clear, now I am just trying to get to the truth.
You’re doing a great job! I believe in you. Stay the course, and take good care of yourself along the way. We need you rested and energized so you can continue making us the best possible knives for a long time. I purchase from you because of your attention to detail and unwavering commitment to quality, through and through.
Thank you so much! I will not quit on you guys. Our lessons were hard earned but extremely valuable. I can see that now.
Love it, Guy! Excellent! You're in the right. It's obviously the source material. Always down to change our minds though if we're proven wrong. Haha
I'm always open to new information. It is important to me to be factually accurate over feeling right in my own mind. In this instance, I very much know that we are factually correct in what's going on. The lab tests will prove that.
There trying to intimadate you. Usually means they are in the wrong. If anything helps you but I would seek legal advice. It's your business
I have consulted with some attorneys, but until Niagara or someone has something substantive they want to lay at my feet or in front of a judge, I'm not litigating this. I want to maintain my ability to talk about these things out in the open. Litigation could take years and would be extremely expensive. During that time, I could be compelled to not publicly disclose any information. I think that's the game they want to play, I'm not playing it. We will stand on observations and evidence here. I just want to get to the truth of what's been going on.
Lawyer up. Might be expensive, but they will mop the floor with you in court. The letter is likely meant to scare you. However, you and I don't speak litigation language, and lawyers love to take advantage for a win when they can. As always, anything you are saying about material defect is based on fact. How they conduct business is a personal opinion of yours and not meant to defame or undermine.
I have consulted with a few attorneys, I've learned we actually have quite a few customers in that field. I'm not litigating this from my side, I'm just after the truth at this point. From their side, they are going to have a real uphill battle trying to prove any kind of defamation, especially with no real evidence to refute my observations.
They keep claiming to have reports, but refuse to share anything. That is highly suspicious, especially when I offered to take my videos down and publicly apologize if they just prove what they're claiming. They are the plaintiff, the burden of evidence is entirely on them.
Everything I have said has been based on observations, beyond that I don't care if they just don't like what I'm saying. We have lab reports going now, so that will be the coffin nail for this. We know what's happening, we just need to wait for the reports to come back.
Good luck, truly wish you justice here and compensation. If deserved they should compensate you without your asking for it. They seem to have wasted Alot of your time as well as costs and it just begins to go public.
Yeah, I've been trying to get answers for well over a year now. Going public was my last resort, it wasn't my preferred option.
why would you let their attorney into your shop? these people are going to stomp you out man. get smart and quick
I'm not even looking for anything from them anymore, other than just getting down to the truth. We're already in the process of finding the truth with lab analysis.
I shared with their attorney because I run an open shop, any visitors are always welcome here and we have nothing to hide. I know our processes are solid and I'm certain this is a material issue.
The burden for defamation is on them, so honestly I dare them to produce some kind of legitimate, 3rd part verifiable reports indicating we had anything to do with this.
They might have the ability to send threatening letters but we have a group of very intelligent and well informed people following this from our side. We know what's going on here, the lab findings will verify that.
I Hope you stand your ground as there is little doubt at this point some MC has inconsistencies and we'd all like to see the truth.
They had over a year to handle this situation quietly. I was a team player for a long time, as you guys can see. I am 100% committed to seeing this through. This isn't about compensation anymore, but rather simply getting to the truth.
My issue is that what you’re saying requires me to believe CRK, Koenig, and many other companies at the top of our industry aren’t doing it right. I don’t believe you 🤷🏼♂️
Frankly I’m glad this will likely get solved in court because your images and the explanations you’ve given are ambiguous enough that it leaves it up to a question of whether or not I believe you personally
Please stop by our Instagram page for an update from the lab today! I don't know what other companies do, or do not do, I do know what we have observed, and what I have shown you guys in videos and photos. I am slow to roll out information, because I want to actually share information. That will be coming from a lab, the place that does the science stuff. All I can do is show you what I see and I've been doing that. We now have three laboratories involved in this investigation, the first lab has already told us there is no way that we can be doing this. We will have redundant confirmation soon enough!
As a follow up, I do know a lot of larger companies are coating supposed super steels. Seems odd to me. I also know many customers have reached out now, because they can see these issues in their blades from some other companies. The SEM won't lie, check out today's preview shots. The next step is to cut and polish parts for internal compositional investigation. instagram.com/p/C4qRmueOLDL/?igsh=MXVjaW4xMW95bHFseA==
Didn't know I could add an IG link, here you go: instagram.com/p/C4qRmueOLDL/?igsh=MXVjaW4xMW95bHFseA==
We are all anxiously awaiting the findings🍿...
I just got word that they are wrapping up initial findings.
Support ya.
Mad respect Guy, stay your course!👍People hate the truth 😡😢 the dirt always washes out!!
We will get to the bottom of this for sure!
Time to get a lawyer!!!
Keep up the fight!!!
I will consider it, once the lab reports come back. Right now my focus is on work and getting to the bottom of this. My fear is that by engaging in litigation with an attorney, that I will no longer be able to talk about this stuff publicly.
I'm not having that, we are keeping a light on this. Come what may, this is my line in the sand.
Awful lot of sycophants in this comment section. 🙄
A lot of people who have received really nice knives at a fair price. Stop by the shop, visit Edgeworks in Frederick, or just watch all of our videos. Sure, there have been some challenges, but everyone has always gotten everything. I never intended to be a manufacturing company, it isn't even something I'm particularly fond of now, but we're doing a great job, making people happy and bringing real value to the world around us with what we do. The delays aside, I dare you to find someone who can be overly critical of something they've received.
It's easy to sit in a chat forum or online venue and hate, and even easier to turn us into something evil, so you feel justified in that hate. We have certainly made mistakes, as there were a lot of lessons to learn in dealing with subcontractors and as we took over the manufacturing, but we have continued to roll with the punches and deliver some really damned nice product.
Also, the video you are commenting on literally ends with a video that was sent directly to Niagara's litigation attorney. I have offered to pull all of my videos that are being critical of Magnacut and publicly apologize, if they would be willing to explain how we are causing any of these issues, using a third party verifiable scientific method.
I have heard nothing. They tried offering me money to pull my videos and sign an NDA. When that didn't work, they denied our warranty claim, citing "reports" they won't share with us. They refuse to return any of my material samples. They attacked us with threats of litigation, while still providing no scientific studies to refute any of my observations...Who is being the real sycophant here?
Good stuff Guy. Got them shaking in their boots. Much respect for saying you will drop it if it’s your process. Keep them coming!👊💪
Thanks man! Hope you're having a great day.
Respect Guy!! We Truly live in Bizarro World!!!
Yeah, one where corporations feel entitled to do anything, to treat anybody however they want. I'm not having that. Come what may, this is my line in the sand. All I want is the truth at this point. We'll get there.
Guy you and I dont know each other but I have owned some of your products for years. I was a small business owner who had been through a few law suits. You NEED and attorney full stop! The litigation world plays by a whole different set of rules. They will spend you out of existence. Please be CAREFUL!
Hey Man, thanks for reaching out. I am not pursuing this through any litigation, I'm just getting down to the truth of what's happening. The lab studies are now underway, so we will get this figured out shortly. They can try litigating this from their end, but they seem to be coming up real short on actual facts to support anything they're saying.
Guy, thank you for you constant updates on this topic👍 I don‘t want to be rude, but would appreciate to get an answer to my cancellation request and the emails afterwards from a few weeks ago. Thanks.
Hey there, I apologize for any delay in responding. We'll be making a video update this weekend but Tyler was recently let go. Customer service was not a good fit for him and we didn't have any other role right now where he could be successful. We have a great human named Lucinda, who recently started in a part time capacity here. She has been picking up information really quickly and has previous experience in a customer service position.
Is there anyone that didn't see a lawsuit coming from 5 miles away?
Here's the thing, I'm just getting down to the truth. They can make threats, but so far they've been real thin on any actual evidence to refute anything I'm saying or observing. Our lab testing has already started now, we will get to the bottom of this shortly.
Excited to see them to lose the lawsuit and for you to own “Survive! Specialty Metals”
I'm just after the truth, but that was a really fun mental road you sent me down. 😂 I would make so many changes.
This is Donald Trump all over again. Stand your ground
@Surviveknives Hey Guy, I would like to have an answer on my question regarding my order #18217. I emailed you about two weeks ago and I know you are busy but it's important.
Hey Hermanni! We are getting the GSO-5.1s wrapped up now. I will forward this message along to Ellie and Lucinda, they will find your email. 👍
Mental note to self. Avoid Magnacut from anyone other than Spyderco. They prob are the only ones who got great stock.they also took the longest to release Magnacut. Benchmade only has a coated blade magnacut. Surprised Niagra and crucible wont exchange your input costs for a nda and favorable video saying case is closed. I will just stick with K390!🥷
From what I am understanding, Spyderco seems to have a pretty robust research and development department. I might not like all of their designs, but I can respect anybody that takes the job very seriously.