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Clover Amour VS WeCrochet Dots: Which Crochet Hook Set is the BEST?
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- Опубликовано: 16 авг 2024
- Discover the best crochet hook set in our head-to-head comparison: Clover Amour vs WeCrochet Dots. We evaluate comfort, design, and performance to help you choose the perfect set for your crocheting needs.
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-WeCrochet Dots shrsl.com/3velm
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// CHAPTERS
0:00 Welcome
3:53 Comparing Crochet Hook Features
7:55 Crochet Stitch Test
10:45 My Review and Pick
#crochettutorial #crocheting #crochetpattern #crochetpatterns #crochetforbeginners
Hey babes! I’m Toni, the designer and instructor behind TL Yarn Crafts. I've designed over 100+ chic and practical crochet patterns for modern makers. Find your next sweater, shawl, and blanket project in my shop at tlyarncrafts.com/.
TLYC on RUclips is a crochet and craft enthusiast space where I share inspiration and education through tutorials for makers of all crochet skill levels. Since starting my creative business, I’ve been committed to exploring every nook and cranny of crochet and I’m excited to share my discoveries with you.
Stick around for crochet tips and tricks and even a few FREE#crochet crochet patterns.
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I acquired a set of Clover Amour hooks when I was still a beginner and have zero regrets. They're super comfortable, super practical and super smooth. On the pricey side, yes, but worth the investment.
I just wish that they were a bit longer 😅
my boyfriend bought me a set of clover amour hooks and I just....I can't use any other hooks anymore. They're just TOO GOOD.
I love my Clover Amour❤
I wouldn't use either of these hooks, not because there's anything wrong with them, but because they are the wrong type of hook for me. Once I got into Tunisian crochet, and bought myself a full set of 10" Tunisian crochet hooks, I never went back to "regular" crochet hooks. I do ALL my crocheting with Tunisian hooks because it lets me set my dominant hand farther back on the hook. This allows me to do elaborate stitches with less movement of my hand and wrist, thereby eliminating any carpal tunnel symptoms. I highly recommend this type of crochet hook to anyone who suffers from fatigue or pain in their wrist or hands, and I think someone with larger hands could benefit from using them as well.
I have both sets (two sets of Clovers...because I'm extra like that), and while I still love them, the WeCrochet ones really surprised me! The way it's designed near the thumb hold has helped me crochet for even longer than my Amours did! I am looking forward to hearing your review of both!
me too
Clover was the first set of crochet hooks I bought and I loved them but the more I crocheted I realized they are short and I prefer a longer hook. Dot is the perfect solution to this issue. I also did not care for the light pink plastic color on the dots but overall I like them more because of the length.
i agree
I’ve always used the Amours and wouldn’t change them for anything else. Also I have sensitive hands and they are the ones I can stand for hours of crocheting. Also they grab the yarn and never loses it like others do. I love them.
Same on all these points. The material of the handle of my favorite of all of my hooks.
I have arthritis and the Clover Amor hooks saved my hands. Even the furls aren't as comfortable for me, although the Candy Shop, for some weird reason seem easier than the other Furls. Still nothing beats the Clover for me. Love your yarn reviews and you taught me how to add Tunisian crochet to my repertoire, lol. Keep up the great work Toni!
Once you get into the larger hook sizes (7mm+), the clover amour hooks are plastic instead of aluminum, and I LOVE them. They feel like butter on blanket yarn for large amigurumis
I'm just like you.. I have just about every crochet and knitting hook sets out there ! It's truly an obsession ! I don't have the Dots set yet, but you convinced me to get it !
(My favorite crochet hook sets are still Tulip & Clover)
I love my Clover Amours - I have tried others but there's nothing that comes close and I always go back to the Amours. They feel comforting, at this point.
Clover Amours are my absolutely favorite and having both osteoarthritis and rheumatoid arthritis they are so comfortable in my hands.
I used to use Susan Bates all the time (I still like those for the in-line heads) but when I tried Clover for the first time...I never went back. They crochet like a dream! Worth every penny, IMO. :)
Oh, same same!! Clover's Amour design isn't inline, but it doesn't matter. I did not expect that.
Thank you Toni, this was super helpful. Also with large (and dry) handles, the Amour's grip is perfect, I don't think I'd like anything smoother.
Also, as someone who rotates the hook (using a knife grip) when picking up yarn overs, handle grip and thumb rest bumps are an issue.
Clover Amour is a combo inline and taper leaning more on the inline side.
I have both and love them both, especially the extra length of the Dots. The only thing I find with the Dots is my hand does get a little sore from where the edge of the actual dot runs through my hand, believe it or not. They are excellent value for money and great hooks.
Been a Susan Bates gal for 56 years. Lately I have been trying other non inline hooks. Its been frustrating. I bought cheap sets that looked like the Clover and found them heavy. I bought a few Tulips and found the bump on the Tulip handles causes numbness on my thumb. I just got a set of Amours 🎉🎉🎉. Cant believe how comfortable and light they are. The thumb rest is like my Susan Bates, kinda. These are perfect hooks for me. Thanks Toni for this review!
Favorite quote from Toni: "From 1 to buttah"
Love your work and how much of yourself that you share with us ❤!
I love my Clover Amour.
I love Clover products but my favorite hooks are from Tulip. The Clover hook set was my first & it was perfect.
Love my clover Amour in the larger size set, love 7 8 9 mm the most, and these lightweight and perfect hook, breeze thru my work, yet don't tire my RA hands..❤
Love love Clover hooks. No other hooks works as smooth especially with yarn that splits. They are wonderful! ❤
Toni!! Beautiful video quality and your backdrop is gorgeous. Your amazing lovey self just shines. Great job on everything and as always excellent content. Your hard work is definitely showing!
This is an immensely kind comment. I wear many hats beyond crochet designer - I never expected video producer to be one of them, lol. So I'm glad to hear that my slow and steady progress is proving worth it. Thank you so much 🤗
first time commenter, long time lurker here! i been crochetting since 2020, apparently i picked it up quickly despite some minor motor issues i have. for xmas after i been crochetting for a year in a half my bf got me a carrycase that had hooks in it off amazon (the one w the flowers on it 😅). after a few months of THOSE i switched out the amazon hooks for a Clover hook set (the main one and the teeny lace hook set) and havent looked back, i love crochet and i love my clovers i dont think ill ever change them out!
Oh my goodness, your little guy is too cute. Love him!
Yep, I love my clovers! The mat finish is my favorite part of the hook. It just makes all of my yarn glide.
I discovered Clovers when they were just that goldish brown color. I never looked back😊 I now own their other more colorful Amour hooks as well.
I initially read your comment as 'goldfish' brown. 🤦🏻♀️😄
I have both sets of Clover...Soft Touch and Amour
This was so helpful! As a 30+ year knitter/designer I only work with Addi Turbo circular needles, they are my ride or die. I’ve always done small crochet projects as my Grandma and Aunty would always encourage me but my brain was never able to fully convert. Now that I am making plushies for nephews and my children’s friends children I need to find that perfect feeling hook and am realizing it’s a bit more complicated than knitting needles. I have Susan Bates, Clover, Addi (Which I sadly despise) and a few plastic Prym. I love the length and shape of the Prym but now that I’m getting more confident the drag is becoming, well a real drag and I’m ready to speed things up. Thank you for the insight, off to search the internet 🥰
FYI Prym does also make hooks with metal heads! They're not exactly the same handle shape but might be worth a try?
I have the addi comfort color hooks and love them. The clover amours are too short for me ( knife grip) and rub the edge of my hand.
Super helpful review! I've watched several videos about Dots trying to decide, but this is the one that helped me make up my mind.
You are not only beautiful woman but also an amazing teacher🌹
I have both and love them both lol. I use a pencil grip so the long Dots hook is very comfortable for me and the thumb spot is in a perfect spot.
I had both but haven't touched the others in months because we crochet dots is my new absolute favorite set of ergonomic hooks to use! I was skeptical before buying them since I love sally hansen hooks for the deeper hook that really grabs the yarn, but find dots work great for not dropping the yarn as well. :)
The nail polish lady makes crochet hooks?!?😮
@@stuffaboutstitches5022 That makes sense! I thought it may be a weird collab. Sally has done them in the past with other companies. Awhile back you could get phone cases in popular Sally Hansen polish colors. It was weird.
I love my Clover Amore hooks! I didn't get them all at once. I picked them up one or two (at the most) at a time and I'm still going, by adding the larger size hooks. Which I was a little cautious about buying because they're not metal hooks. I was so pleasantly surprised by the smooth slick feel of them. Two thumbs up on them too. 😊
Pepper's little snaggle tooth is adorable!
I only have a few clover hooks, and they aren't my favorite. Many I feel like they are short when in my hand, but I have been in love with my dots hooks since receiving them in January! I do love the price point as well. Definitely, worth giving them a try.
Bought today 3 crochet hooks with handle 2+2,5+3 mm from Zeeman for €.2,19, not even $.2,50 brillant.
And wool yarn 100g +/- 241m for €.2,19... Do not wish to spend more for granny squares or moss-stitch... 👍👍👏👏 Love from northern France
I just got my Clover hooks last week. They are awesome, go through the yarn like butter.
Clover so smooth, no teeny gritty feeling on the yarns like other hooks, I’ve got a lot of brands Clover everytime woohoo 🧶
Wonderful review Toni :) I have small hands and have learned to swing my crochet hook in a pencil grip in order to crochet stitches quickly as a lefty. I've realized too that I rely on the end of my hook handle to tension the yarn evenly. For this reason, I've been wanting to try the Clover hooks and have been thinking about investing in them for quite a while. So glad Amazon has sales on the Clovers :).
U will love Clover if you use pencil style crochey
Thanks for this video 😊 I must say I LOVE my Clover Amour all the way! The set was a gift and I think it’s one I really appreciate. But I would like to give the Dots a try, just for kicks.
Thank you, Toni, for all that you do to educate the crochet family. ♥️
I love your submissions, as an avid crochetter, I find your inquiry results are so valuable, thank you so much!
I seem to always come back to the Clover no matter how many others I try
Hi Toni. That was a great comparison! Loved that you didn’t mince words. I love my Clover but, i also find my Tulip hooks are amazing as well and of course my old standby Susan Bates! I find they each vary enough that ALL my yarn bases are covered Thanks
I got my set of Clover Amour hooks from Zulily for over half -off. I had to wait for three billion years for them to arrive, but it was a steal.
I have the Clover Amour n love them. But sometimes I feel like the are too short. Looking forward to this review to see if I need another set?!?! Of course I do. 😜
Pepper!!!! How cute is he!!!
I am a long time crocheter with big hands. love my dots! I have at least one of every brand of hook but these have me, the length and thumb rest fit my hands perfectly. I don’t grasp the hook as tight as Toni perhaps, so I don’t have an issue wit the hard plastic ends. For the price I recommend trying the Dots, especially if you have larger hands.
Thank you for the review. I like my Clover ones.
I recently got 2 individual hooks from Clover Amour and absolutely love them.
I've been crocheting with what's very clearly supposed to be a dupe for the clover Amours, the Anko crochet hook set from Kmart. It's 9 hooks for 7.50 dollars. They have the same sizes, smooth as anything, comfort grip that you can remove if you really want lol. Commenters, if you're in Australia and looking to get your first set of hooks I totally reccomend it, i prefer them to the expensive ones my mum has. The only other hook i love as much as them is a 10mm wooden hook from artviva, which is handmade, super smooth and lovely to use.
I bought the same Kmart set because I needed a size that spotlight were sold out of. I wouldn't say theyre a close dupe for the clover hooks at all. They're similar in size but the rubberised handle is definitely harder and the metal is nooooooo where near as smooth. I get pain after about 20 minutes with the Kmart ones because I have to use to much more effort to use it. The clover hooks I get no pain at all.
Id agree for a beginner they may be okay if you want a variety of hooks for cheap until you decide what kind of hook you prefer to work with. I'd suggest going to spotlight and getting one of the boye hooks in a size appropriate for the type of project you're most likely to do to start.
I am thrilled I found you!!!! ❤❤ I got clover style crochet hooks on wish. Honestly, no difference. ($8 free shipping because I had a coupon) I've had them for 4 years now. I'm not promoting wish, however, not every one can afford expensive hooks. Although, recently I added Tunisian hooks to my collection.(Wal-Mart special 😂) I realized I was trying to do a Tunisian pattern with my regular hooks. Unbeknownst to me it's a whole different style. Loved it so much I'm doing that as well. That's how I ran into your tutorials. My goal is to relax while making something pretty.
I have been trying to decide. I watched many videos with yours which I have watched twice now. I will be saving and getting the Clover Amours. I even looked at the tulips but I just don't want to pay that much. I guess if I was using them as part of my business such as yourself, I could see wear it would be worth it. Again love you and all your videos. Thank you.
I used your link to order the dots hooks because I like a longer hook and clover is too short for me. Thanks for your review.
I love different crochet accessories although I am a bit of a frugal shopper so I went with a set of hooks I bought from TEMU. They work just as well as my old set. And are so much cheaper.
I got a great set of 9 hooks in a zippered case from Aldi a couple years ago for under $10. They're actually my 'go to' set now, even though I have waaay more hooks than 1 human needs. 😬☺
Pepper looks like the best boy! So cute!
Clover amour works great for me. I don't regret purchasing it and it gives me nice grip because of its plastic handle. I usually use my aluminum hooks and I can tell the difference. My pony hooks have bulkier handle than clover amour so I usually prefer clover. I'd like to try tulip and other hooks in the future to see what fits my hands better
I literally just got my Dots hooks in the mail last night 😂 I have had my Clover Amours for months now and they’re my go-tos, but I’ve been testing the Dots hooks all day and I think they’re a really good alternative, or good to have alongside Clover Amours. I personally always have a lot of WIPs so it will be nice to have some more high quality metal hooks around
I had been a life long (over 45 years) user of Susan Bates hooks, but after one of your reviews, I tried the Clover Amours, and surprisingly, I haven't gone back! I love them so much that I don't even want to try other hooks. But I'm so glad that you try all of these new hooks so I don't have to. lol I always enjoy your videos, so even if I'm not in the market for something new, I still love to watch. Thank you!
I am a Susan's bates hook users, and I have brought Clover just for travel. I feel no real love, lose if it happens during travel. Thanks so much for your review. I value it so much. I have shared videos with co-workers who are trying out crocheting for the first time or a refresher on stitches. They ❤you too
Thanks! My bestie loves the Amour hooks. I am a Tulip Etimo girl - I have the ones with the gold heads and grey shafts.
I'd also love to see a comparison that includes the Wecrochet Brights set, which appearance wise, looks even more like the Amours, but is shockingly cheep-- currently about 1/10th the price.
I only has 1 of the clover amour hooks because I needed a 3.75 mm hook to finish a project but I left it in a hotel room while on vacation, so I got the single 3.75 because I thought I would be good and yea. Before I got that one I had only use like the fully metal hook, like the ones with out the grimy things (u know what I’m talking about?) and the clover amour one was just SO GOOD. It was instantly my fav hook. So this was like, 2 years ago, and tho I have never tried the dotted hooks, the clover amour hooks I’ll always be my fave and hold a special place in my heart
Edit: (dam that’s a long comment)
I'm a knitter over 30 years and don't know how to crochet. I am now on day 9 of your Crochet Academy. After reading many reviews on different crochet hooks, I finally purchased a set of Amore hooks, last fall. I just finished my first crochet swatch, from your academy. I was so focused on working on my technique that I don't remember how the Amore felt in my hands. I am happy with my purchase, thus far. If they caused discomfort, I would have felt it.
Just ordered the Clover Amours....40% off! I'm working on the zig zag ripple afghan with fall colors. Thanks so much for your tutorial! Couldn't have done it without you.🐈⬛🧶
I'm new to crochet and I bought a clover amour hook in the size that I needed for my first project and I have no comparison, but I really like it. I can crochet for hours and feel okay at the end .
I have only used Clover and don’t really want to try any others. I love them. My fingers never get tired or sore. I watched a lot of videos to get comparisons because I am fairly new to crochet.
The thing that convinced me to try the Dots was the raised thumb rest. I have issues with my fingers and don't know where I'm holding the hook, even when the soft rubber grips. I'm on the wait list for the Dots, fingers crossed that it helps me with the grip issue 🤞 Thanks and Pepper is super cute!
I will stay with the Clovers. I don't like the "hump" on the Dots, since I use a pencil grip, it really gets in the way.
Love my dots hooks for my amigurumi projects. My other projects usually are done with my Furls wood hooks.
JoAnn price matches. I got my set for the Amazon price about 2 years ago. I hope they will still honor that. I would just ask and make sure to have the listing up on your phone. I love the Clover set its so smooth and even with yarn that split the clovers handle it well without causing more damage. I love the sizes in the set because I like the options of 2.25-3.75mm cause vs just every half mm. Its really important to me since I crochet amigurumi.
Thank you so much for doing this Toni! I have been wondering about the Dots crochet hooks. I currently use only the Clover Amor. Interesting! I love everything you do!❤
When I first started, I bought a cheap set of hooks on Amazon which I thought were fine. After crocheting for a while and deciding it was something I was going to stick with, I bought a set of Clover Armour and some Furls. I sold the Furls. Love my clovers. The length is perfect for me and they are so smooth. I'm clover forever
I have many, many hooks. Furls, Susan Bates, Boye, Hero, Gem, plastic, resin and wood. Dots are my favorite by far. In fact, I'm going to order another set in case they ever stop making them!
I love my Clover Amour hooks. I use a pencil grip so I don’t need the extra length. Thank you for sharing your opinion on both kinds of hooks. 💜🙏🏻
I use clover amour.. I’m older and crocheting got a little harder with arthritis and the clover are easier to hold and your right I look for the letter as well as the number.. clover is my go to hook. Ty love your channel
I love my Clover hooks. I got my first set off ebay for $35 USD, another good place to look for reduced items. The only issue I have is they are a bit short for my hand. For the price, I will definitely try a set of the Dots. You can never have enough crochet hooks, don't ya know! 😂 I only wish that they would offer sets in the larger hook sizes. It cost me quite a bit to get the larger Clovers individually. Thanks for the review! 👍
Howdy from Michigan neighbor! I already had the Amour's, and being six foot tall... well Sunday I'll be 73 yrs old or young so I doubt that I'm hitting the six foot notch anymore. anyway the hooks are a tad short for me. I love my Furls, but I have broken one , and I only like metal tips, now I'm all set to start learning. I have forgotten everything I knew from yrs ago, and I want to get out and pick up a new lap top this week then I will sign up for Skill Share Crochet classes. so wish me luck lady Jane
This is THE REVIEW I was looking for 😊. I use Clover Amour, they are so smooth. However, the handles are quite long enough for me. I saw the dots hooks being used on another site but the user didn’t credit them. The handle looks much better. Think I might be spending some more money!
I got my dots as a clover alternative because I couldn't afford a whole set of the clovers. I taught my best friend how to crochet on them and she bought a set as soon as they restocked last time😅
I’m a clover amour fan all the way!!!!❤
I have both sets and I prefer the Clover because of the thumb rest you mentioned. I use pencil hold so that hump seems to be in the way.
I love my Tulips hooks....❤❤❤❤
I have not tried the Dodge, and don’t plan to. I love my Clovers and my tulips. I have very small child size hands, so I tend to like the shorter hooks. Thanks for the great review, they are my favorites of your videos. I love it when you show us new products and try them out for us.
Thanks for the great review. I always enjoy these episodes. I love to see new products and to hear what you think about them. I’m pretty sure I would have also chosen the clovers. I have child size hands, so my tulips and my clovers are my go to hooks. Love them both. ❤
I have mostly Clover Amour, a couple of Furls which I now don’t feel were worth the high price. I’ll have to consider dots so I have a travel set 🥰
I've gotta say, I have never tried a hook with any sort of handle ever before. I've only ever used all-aluminum hooks, all-plastic hooks, and some wooden Tunisian crochet hooks with interchangable plastic extension parts on the end. That being said, my favorites are my plastic hooks. Idk what it is about those things but they just feel so nice in my hand and they have just the right amount of grip for me. Its interesting to see what other people use, but I dont ever think I can move on from these plastic hooks lol
I am a Clover Amour Girl, I would not like the thumb rest of the Dots, I can see that I would get pressure on my thumb from that raised bit, the way I hold my Crochet hooks. Thank you so much for the review. The dots look fun and appealing, but I prefer a hook that is comfortable.
I have been adding to my Clover Amour hooks steadily over time. I love them so much! I even have a few Furls hooks and I keep coming back to my Clover Amour hooks! And I'm a kid-sized hand person, so they're perfect for me! 😂
I have recently ventured into the their steel hooks for doing lace crochet. I think the smallest I can go right now is the 1.75. 😅 But they are so well made and they come with a little steel cap for the hook! So wonderful! Thanks for always providing great reviews! ❤🙏
I love this review❤ my clover Amours are for micro crochet. My smallest is .60 and I have 4, .75, .90, .and 1.00 They were actually the only hooks I could find that weren't straight metal or had to be attached. Sometimes the assemble ones just don't work out. Thank you ❤
I just got my clover amour steel hooks.. I already had the standard sizes (which made me a fangirl for them) and I am loving every second of them. I've been wanting to get into lace and micro crochet for soooo long. First thing I made was a mini flower applique with thread and the 0.60mm hook. It's probably only 5 to 8 mm diameter. In love.
Clover all the way.
I've also started embroidery recently. I had the choice of a $3 hoop or a $13 clover hoop... I went with clover because the quality of their hooks are so good that I believe the quality or their other products will likely stand up.. we'll see if I remain a clover fangirl after I've been usi g the hoop for a while. $13 is a lot for something that could be purchased for more than 50% less.
I have small hands and use a pencil grip. I love my Clover Amour hooks. They work the best and are most comfortable for me. I did get the Dots, but the length isn’t very comfortable. I haven’t given up on them yet, and they are so cute.
I love my clover amours! I got them at Joanns with a coupon for about 60$ I think. I knew I wanted this set after buying some individual hooks and loving them. The dots look nice and I agree that they seem like a great rec for people just getting into crochet and who may not want to invest just yet. I may need to get a set for my mom so she’ll stop borrowing my clovers!
Clovers are worth the extra money. I think I’m a hook snob, because I never buy storebrand, no brand or any other cheap hook. My one exception is that I love my set of the regular aluminum Susan Bate hook. In fact, I have a whole bunch of Susan Bates and boy hooks in my collection. And I occasionally use them.
I had Child size Hands so Clover hooks, as well as Tulyos, are perfect for me. I even love the large.Xlovers. They are light, they glide through the yarn, and they are very comfortable in my hands. Because my hands are so small they are the largest hook I will use. I do have four. Furl Odyssey hooks and I bought one at the time a long time ago, that I don’t use very often.
Clover Amour are my favorite hooks. Tried many others, including Furls and I always go back to my Clover.
I stand by Clover. I use Clovers for anything K and above. I use Tulip for size I and J (I don't do anything smaller.)
What a great review! I'm still a beginner, but I really want to try the Dots or Clover Amour hooks to see what the buttery smooth feeling is all about. I need to make some IRL crocheting friends with fancy hooks, as I imagine going into a store and crocheting in the aisle would be odd and unwelcome 😅😂
Nothing on the market beats the Clover Amour hooks.
I acquired my Clover hooks in a lime green and pink case on sale quite a long time ago. They are my favorite hooks. I also love the old Susan Bates metal hooks.
I love everything clover. Crochet, Tunisian, Knitting I’ve got them all
I really like my clover hooks, but they are short so I am excited to try the dots! Love everything you do! Love the shout out to lama mama Kayla…what a sweet and deserving soul!
So timely. Thank you, Toni. I was just looking for a set to gift to my 14 yo daughter who has been enjoying learning to crochet. I want her to enjoy thr craft with good quality tools. It looks like the head on the Dots looks like the head on a Tulip. Interesting...
Love watching your videos. I have both sets and they're ok, my all time fav are Tulip Etimo Hooks, they fit me perfectly. Thank you very much for sharing.
i really appreciated this video! because while it's not relevant to me necessarily as someone who already has all the clover hooks, these wecrochet ones look like a great option for those new crochet friends i have looking for recommendations on things that will feel better to use than plastic but aren't going to break the bank for a hobby they're not necessarily committed to yet. i've recommended them for my friend to look into - and some of the cons you mentioned won't impact her as she loves pale pink and has quite small hands, so the dots will be a pro to her and the thumb rest will probably be in a good spot for her. i think they're a great option for her and i super appreciate your pointing us in their direction.
Love you Toni, such great info. Your yarn tjread thru yarn needle I use every time, & think of you, great info. I hv been trying Tulip, few hooks hete, there, even their original steel hooks. I hv Susan Bates steel hooks in almost every size, starting 00 -9, & all the lettered sizes. Clover beats for sure with Filet crochet, getting into sm places & getting out in smooth, easy loops for dc & tr, + I wud try dots, but I hv trbl with Clover rubbing my pointing finger also. I dont need any more but am intrigued now