@@Benjilovescats between jack and nothing. Not sure if they've even seen the tickets. To be fair, I don't know how many they have to sift through on the daily so I've resigned to getting used to it
Vanguard was so successful that several of my friends (including me) stopped playing League of Legends when it was implemented and now our lives are better for it. Thank you, Riot!
Exactly! I started in Season 2 and have been addicted for far too long. After I spent $5000 on the game I was looking for some way to quit. Vangard shutting down my system finally set me free!
When I barely open the League client (im a very casual player, I'm more interested in the lore. I know weird) Vanguard still opens on launching my PC and im betting is responsible for the drop in my PC's performance (I dont have a potato, Its a purpose built gaming machine).
It's not because of Vanguard. Riot said that windows did an update that broke it and they can't do anything about it. It's in windows hands, not theirs
@@Citrin1s It *is* because of Vanguard. This is the risk of kernel level software, they need to be programmed with utmost care and with every possible problem being thought of. They are in the ball park of medical equipment and on-board software (ones built into machines that cannot be upgraded easily). Because if a normal software fails, task manager or restart will do the job. But kernel level? You're in for a world of trouble. Best case scenario is that it just doesn't work, worst case scenario you can only launch Windows in safe mode now.
I can say that kernel level anticheats being used for nefarious means isn't really a theory anymore, it happened with genshin a while ago, and it was so broad that you didn't even have to install the game to have its anticheat break your system
Basically, Microsoft whitelisted "Genshin Impact Anti-Cheat" as a "legitimate rootkit" and then some malware was able to disguise itself as "Genshin Impact Anti-Cheat." Microsoft basically installed a doggy door in their bank vault. Which ironically is the exact analogy some Riot employee used to dismiss Linux support for League of Legends.
The problem I have with these graphs is that it only shows detected accounts. Since there's no way to truly know how may accounts were duplicates or how many hackers there are in general all we know is that a lot of accounts were taken out. The second issue is that the hackers will just find a way pass the detection which honestly I wouldn't be surprised if they haven't already. If the cheat detection bans mid match its a plus for the hacker because you get quicker feedback to what does and does not work. Edit. I forgo to state that on the Microsoft update for ELAM it is just a means for the anti-malware drivers to well drivers in general to start before anything else has a chance the come online. The problem with this is that its still becomes a race to see who starts first since hackers can use the same process in their methods. The only way Microsoft can make all of this obsolete is if they completely lock you out of your BIOS of you computer and that would not go well with a lot of entities.
Mine didn't, but I did. I used to play it on linux, I have no doubt that league and vanguard can be made available for linux, but I have no intention of installing the rootkit on my system.
My dude, they just released the survivors mode that brought Alot of players back. AND the brought back arena that is their most popular mode. They should have doubled their numbers. Instead they are just stable!
precisely. Youd assume it would have a higher peak than stable. its probably because people cant be swayed about positives of vanguard over terrible negatives about vanguard as well. Not worth imo.
who is playing arena this days ? its not even close to a real league game .. What is Arcane make League more popular ? its just lore and uk not playing league is a thing of the mechanics u need to play this game .. its just not enough to have a mouse and some fingers ... also this is the game with the biggest playerpool on world beside CS ig ? so how to get even bigger if u already sucks all the people in which are interessted into stuff like that ? if there is noone left to recrute i gess u did a nice job before already .. This game gets bigger and bigger from year to year .. u cant argument like they have to be bigger instead they just stable .. bro stable means they grwoth in there predicted ratio ...
I feel like I'm one of the few people that sees Vanguard as just an "okay, that's pretty neat." It didn't break my laptop either, and I use a cheap ass laptop.
Yeah me too. Other than the crashing bugs it had a while ago, I dont have a problem with it. I dont like it but I dont hate it either. It's just...there. And as someone who was in iron and got bots constantly, its been a blessing.
The issue with Vanguard is that it has access to your computer that it (in the mind of many) that it shouldn't. It's not a matter of your computer breaking, but the fact that it has access to everything on your computer, when there are options (according to people who know a lot more than me) that are just as effective, but are not invasive.
@@1Kapuchu100 So you just read what some people said and took it as facts? Sorry, but anything someone would want to access can be accessed without kernal level access.
1:24 I actualy DID quit, but maybe that's because I'm a software developer and it wasn't long after they added it to League that the CrowdStrike thing happened, which is basically the same kind of kernel driver, just used for a different purpose. I'm calling it: Riot will have a CrowdStrike moment at some point in the future.
And watching that particular ship go down in flames is gonna be quite entertaining. Wanna bet on how it's gonna happen? I bet cha it's gonna be a change in vanguard to allow verified software to use their overlay functions that will let someone access vanguard and just toggle it on and off when they feel like it.
Also, only Riot has access to the data of what Vanguard is accomplishing, but they could just say whatever they want, it's not like anyone could verify that. I don't think they are lying but small 'beauty corrections' could add up aswell.
Yes for now it seems to not be a problem but riot owners are tensent nou and thatd a subsidiary of Chinese government and we al now houw open and transparent they are
Haven't played a single game of League since Vanguard was required. No plans to start again. I don't like giving a company that much power over my computer. What info are they gathering? Who safeguards it? What happens if there's a data breach?
@@alexastorm97 they dont have kernel level access to my computer. They have information based on what i provide them. I am okay with sharing what i deem sharable, i dont want to give them full access to my pc's memory.
You gave access to your computer by downloading an exe file. They could do all of that just as equally well (and arguably better because LoL is a piece of spaghetti) targeting the LoL client instead of Vanguard. There have been security leaks for drivers, if you ever bought a cheap peripheral there could be security leaks if the driver (which is also kernel level) is dodgy. By your reasoning don’t download anything. Hell your browser could steal all your information through a side channel attack like spectre. By your logic nothing is safe so just completely uninstall.
Yes I should never leave my house either because it’s too dangerous. Maybe I’ll find a cave and hide myself in it forever. Let’s be rational about this, what power do those programs have compared to what Vanguard does? They’re drastically different from what Vanguard can access and monitor.
@@FatherDragonKal No, they aren't that different. If someone managed to compromise a user space program, it's entirely possible, and bluntly not that difficult for them to elevate permissions. If paint was compromised you'd be screwed. Regardless, kernel level access is still overkill, you can do plenty of damage without it, just look at most malware. Consider some attack vector for vanguard - explicitly, why is this not as applicable for the LoL client? You seem to think vanguard is so much more vulnerable, yet if we held all software to the same standard you hold vanguard then you shouldn't trust any software.
@@ThaBornIdentity I'm curious, now that this data is out and people can see that Vanguard it's just bringuing good things to the table, are you still out because of it or because you broke the shackles of LoL?
@@Xelofrost I would say I left because of vanguard, but I probably stayed away because I broke the shackles (mostly).I still dont believe its not their own fault for blue screen crashes from a friends experience but whatever. I mean everyone praises vanguard but I dont believe its really changed the players that'll stay or the ones who left for it in my opinion. Dont believe itll bring more players into the game, but as long as its stagnant and doesnt fall off playerbase, the game will be just fine.
@@ThaBornIdentity I'm glad you choose to stay free my guy, so far Vanguard hasn't been a concerned for me or any of my friends, but I do know some people have some problems with it
I just can't play anymore on my computer. Send 5 tickets to riot, not a single of their answers helped me, and they closed my ticket unresolved. So... Yeah... Togther with that, q lot of lag spikes, game crashing, the first scripter that I saw was when Vanguard was active, my notebook got significantly worse and I have to restart my notebook a lot nowdays, and it got significantly hoter.
Or reported cheaters for that matter. That graph getting lower OVER TIME is definitely concerning. That is usually a sign cheaters get better stealth scripts. But hey, less bots. That's a positiv
I really dont get it, why vanguard is a problem? U are on yt rn giving all ur info for google the same way, they use ur info to recommend shit for u, to train their IA and what else?
@@Alisson00001 They don't really need a reason. They are a customer, and when a product they use changes even slightly, they reserve the right to stop buying & engaging with the aforementioned product. It's very simple customer engagement metrics.
@@Alisson00001 It isn't. People are just stupid enough to actually think that other companies don't use kernel level anticheat and think they have any semblance of privacy online
Lol are they banning for that now too. When I was playing this pos game my sister also played on same pc on different account even besides that what about internet cafes will you get banned for logging from those now lol.
I dont think they meant that by sharing hardware, it can be that a cheater who got banned sold his pc to someone else and that person was having problems because vanguard just remembered that this PC had 3rd party software in the past and eventually can have it again, and for now it can be solved only by contacting support.
@@cin2110To be fair. If a computer gets cheated on. Them hwid banning that person and then their sister gets affected is not league of legends responsibility. It sucks. But hey. The one cheating did this not league.
Regardless of whether or not Vanguard is as horrible as people were afraid of or not, it got me to uninstall League from my computer. The actual details of how Vanguard works and what it does is irrelevant, the reputation that kernel-level anti-cheats have is damaging enough. Sidenote; holy shit, I've never had a program be that hard to remove. It felt like League was a living virus inside my computer, burrowing deeper into my files the harder I tried to remove it. I'm glad I finally got that shit off my computer lol
Youre already probably playing a dozen other games with kernel level anti cheat, you just dont know it. Nearly every game on the market uses it, it is no reason to drop league over. Dont listen to people spreading hate when they just learned what kernel level means when league added vanguard, listen to the actual professionals
@@taricplz8384 yeah, it is fine because other games are doing it, and because it's not an issue. If someone wants your info, they aren't going to need to use a games anti cheat to get it. Do you think before games had anti cheat it was impossible to steal people's info?
Kernal level access hacking is not still a "theory". we just went through a the worst computer outage in history from a bad code deployment of kernal level software Crowdstrike.
yeah cause crowdstrike BYPASSES the validation cycles that are usually imposed on having certificated kernel level software by using configurations. Usually to have certificated kernel level software the software has to run without flaws through hundreds, perhaps thousands of tests on many different end devices. Vanguard doesnt use configs that are loaded through internet so I assume they run through all these tests on every new vanguard version
worth noting that this outage wasnt malicous at all tho. there was a mistake made. and while it certaintly wasnt good at all, in the end, we are humans and people do make mistakes. usually stuff is caught, esp when this important and large, but every now and then stuff slips through the cracks. we have yet to have a case of kernel level anticheats compromising someones computer. but, feel free to prove me wrong. im more than happy to see any sorts of evidence of that. people really out here screaming riot is taking all ur data, yet noone has literally any proof. tho, there are people that have tracked vanguards activities, like for instance network usage, and noone has found anything wrong. kernel level access hacking as u say, hasnt been an issue. crowdstrike didnt hack or anything like that. they pushed a bad update. and that update got accepted cus its from a trusted company. and again there was no compromise, it was a coding error, that didnt get caught before it was to late.
@@MisterAssasineYou hopefully assume that a huge company won't fuck up, but the history shows different... And EA already shown how some companies just straight put a trojan into your PC and fuck you for caring about it.
CrowdStrike does not count as it was not a hack. It was purely someone breaking protocol and not testing a patch. That isn't a cyber security attack it's just incompetence. Not saying it isn't an issue but let's not call something that isn't hacking hacking
Vangaurd has been a net gain for Riot but some important notes about botting - They measure the botting hours by taking the lifetime of an account they've banned for botting. The vast majority of people botting ran on Windows, but after vanguard they had to move over to OSX (no vanguard required). The giant drop in botting is a combination of riot banning a large number of windows botters and a large number of botters moving to OSX. Riot still can't efficiently track OSX botting due to the lack of Vanguard enforcement on Mac. No Vanguard means a lot less data is sent to Riot for them to analyze. The same issue, to a lesser extent, exists for scripters. These numbers are impressive, but the infographics are misleading because they can never have a full scope of the data unless all users are on Vanguard. Vangaurd has had a massive effect against hackers and botters using Vangaurd and no effect on anyone who moved to OSX.
Yea thats because its so much more rare for any OSX software to need kernal access full stop but because Windows is an absolute hot mess the only way they can assure security is Kernal access just look at Crowdstrike.
while yeah OSX doesnt have vanguard... it moves the ppls to one system... so they just look into OSX user stats and flag all the accounts with strange behavoir
anything is better than nothing is what to take away here. sure, graphs like these are always partially misleading. theres always biases and other stuff to take into account. but, its not taking away from how efficient it is. and if botters and cheaters are moving to mac, thats a win if u ask me. they are spending loads of money on apple products uneccessarily, they are sure bypassing the fence, but they also have to crawl through mud eat sand and walk on legos to do it. loads of anti cheat anti bot etc is about acessibility. its why free to play games struggle infinitely more. simply by adding a 10$ price tag to cheating, theres all of a sudden a WAY lower demand for cheats. the less accessible it is, the less people u have to even worry about in the first place.
Moving to OSX makes that stuff fairly inaccessible. Like, are you really willing to spend $1000 just for cheating? Or buying hundreds of Macs just for botting. It's still a win, it hits their bottom line, and makes it less likely for others to join in.
0:22 most anti cheats don't run on your machine 24/7 significantly reducing the risks attached to such access which by the way isn't a theory, it's a fact. You can gaslight people all you want and downplay how shady Vanguard is and nothing will change about Vanguard, it's a literal malware just by looking at how it affects your PC performance let alone the security risks.
Your cpu has an NSA backdoor that can be accessed as long as your PC has power. Vanguard is quite literally the least of your worries. Intel ME and AMD PSP aren't going anywhere so your PC is never safe from interference anyways.
@@pamdabeepI like the comparasion between two of the most important companies of tech world whose tecnology is what keeps CPU running with a company that runs a videogame. They are on the same league, ofc
@@kosmiquecute. I stopped playing a bit before vanguard because I knew how this beast of an anti cheat works, and expected plenty of issues. Did not expect the bricked notebooks tho. My hardware is old and would be pretty much compromised in (the already poor) performance for everything I have to do, so why take the risk if I can simply cut league instead?
@@kosmique In reality its opposite. Had 100+ scripters in friend list in 3 accounts, most of them continued playing while few old-school players who dont like cheating uninstalled this sht after vanguard release. From RITO side of view it's success, if most players cheating then no one will complain about cheats.
I highly doubt those numbers present reality in the slightest. What I assume they did it manual vs automatic detection. Previously, it happened a ton that an acc got to high elo and was then banned, or if an acc got reported a lot for toxic behavior, it was figured out quite easily it's a bot account, due to match history, playstyle and mode selection. But this only really works if you assume that you know all of the accounts, else the statistic is not wrong, but kind of useless. I say that it's not wrong because that means the system actually manages to detect and flag them, but there could be 10x as many accounts, just that the other 900% use a different method that is neither figured out automatically, nor by a person. And I assume that's also what the script detection rate is based on, automatic detection vs manual detection.
And i think alot of ai bots got ignored and are probably riot bots to boost the numbers if the losses are to big it wil Shame the tensent leadership (Chinese government) And that is bad for the government
8:20 The query shown isn’t how they detected/banned the bots. It is how they identified the bots in the dataset of all detections to generate the graph and come up with the botting hours. It could theoretically be that there are more advanced bots which don’t get detected and therefor don’t show up in the statistic.
ever considered that the 2 things here are completely seperate things? the anti cheat team doesnt make the client lmao. no, i wouldnt trust the artists with code, but i would trust them in making good art. no, i wont trust that the client team is doing a good job, but that team isnt the anti cheat team. the anti cheat team does the anti cheat, not the client. and if u think that argument doesnt make sense cus riot is riot, same company, u clearly are naive and dont understand larger corperations well.
@@Cryoptic_ have you ever considered that riots management.. manages said teams? im not asking for artists to code, im asking them to get devs to create a working client for their main title. if they cant do that i dont have trust in the company.
Just trust the billion dollar company that is really trying hard to convince you to trust them that is involved with a Chinese company and we all know the Chinese always have good intentions and are honest about everything that they do and never once lie ever!
@@MasterStaconaMicrosoft already has kernel level access to everything you do since windows 10 22h2. If you don't trust riot, you shouldn't trust Microsoft too. Google and apple as well. Just go and live in a cave already.
never touched my closed beta account since the inception of vanguard. there is a difference between running on demand and just running it permanently. when goverments can be hacked, riot can be too.
i also believe nothing Riot says about their own product where their motive as a company is to get you back to play and pay... They will do ANYTHING they can to do so even if it means blatantly lying to you and basically saying "You can trust us bro, we got no ill intent, we are perfectly honest and will never lie! :^) "
@@alexhardy373 there is a different levels of private data. If they can hack Vanguard it won't be just your internet history or your shopping preferences. Hell they might inject a ransomware via Vanguard if they can successful hack it. It might or might not happen but I won't take the risk. I refuse to install any game with Vanguard on my working PC.
So successful, in fact, that it's actually kept me out of LoL since its launch and I've had more time to do other things and play other games in my backlog....and after a few months I've realized, hmmm, I guess it's not worth the potential vulnerability for me and look at all the time I gained to consume other things now. But that's just me though, people can do whatever they want of course. Thank you, Vanguard!
Bang on! Its evident that Vanguard is working for riot, but I just don't quite trust it. Also my League client at the time really hated that I was using a VPN as well. If people say that we need to accept it or piss off; well, off I will piss.
I've also been far less angry in my day-to-day as I'm no longer raging on riot through their services. Now I'm just enjoying their wonderful single-player game, Legends of Runeterra.
You say that while using youtube, which belongs to google, which has all your information. Not to mention all the ad companies knowing everything about you through internet thanks to their argorithms. We have 2024, 2025 soon, and people like this still exist lmfao.
I am one of the quiters. Haven't plsyed since the week after the vanguard patch. I can't stand the idea of s kernel level anticheat and, above all else, it was frying my pc. It was using at least 50% of my cpu XDDD
I still don't get why necrit never recognizes that riot often manipulates the data they post, they should include the data for accounts who had issues, couldn't resolve them and just went dark i bet those numbers are not nearly as minor as the false ban stuff, what %contacted riot and couldn't get help, and how many just never did that and went dark because not worth the effort, why does the client rename itself when uninstalling instead of properly uninstalling? all things riot wont ever address despite being valid questions.
8:15 no that's not what they are trying to say. They are saying that the difference between scripters and botters is hard to figure out because they use the same methods, so they use resolution + FPS to differentiate between scripters and botters. They do NOT use it to detect players.
wouldnt be surprised if thats also used to flag suspicious accounts tho. a very simple and rather primal way to do it. but it certantly can add to a system. its just taking a whole bunch of "ppl dont do that normally" and stacking them on top of each other. if ur doing something 1 in 1000 ppl do, and ur doing another thing only 1 in 10000 people do, whatever ur doing is very weird and not common, and can easily be just flagged for "sus / weird activity" for further investigation.
@@xhantTheFirst Would you want to go through a meaningless fight? Because that's what discussing with people defending Vanguard is, especially if your questioning goes for Necrit, who is the person with most incentives to die on a hill defending Vanguard.
I got DDOS'd in game 6 matches ago, the guy friended me and BRAGGED about it after. I fought a bot xerath named 'botting Jarvis' 3-4 games ago. Vanguard made my fans not work with anything but DC power. It feels like a flop, and i don't believe this sht at all.
You can go on cheating forums and see for yourself, or ask around if Vanguard is effective. Spoiler alert: it very much is. The misconceptions people have are usually just misinformed opinions or pure fear-mongering by engagement-hungry individuals. Source: I’ve been developing cheats as a hobby for over 10 years
While i could say that this is prpbably real there are a few things worth noting like the technical complaints regarding it are still as prevalent now as they were when valorant brought vanguard to widespread use
i played valorant for some time even after i realised they used kernel-level anticheat before i decided to deinstall. but i encountered A LOT of cheaters in this game. sadly kernel-level-anticheat alone doesnt mean sh*t in regards to efficiency. if it was a 100% thing (or even closer to it) the argument for it would be stronger... but it's not. sadge
Where tf did these graphs come from? What statistics are they based on? How do they know the amount of current cheaters and how come they cant trace them if they know how many there are??
The greatest success of vanguard is that it finally made me and some friends uninstall League of Legends. Thanks Riot for creating this stupid 24/7 rootkit, it finally made me quit lol.
How many have uninstalled due to too many cheaters? I know people who prefer Valorant over other shooters due to the lack of cheaters. Don’t act like there is nothing positive.
@@mouldyvinegar5665 Yes, I can definitely see people stopping playing at a high level. (where there are most cheaters) But please don't put words in my mouth. That's pretty rude. I know some who don't get to play it because of where they work. For example, in the gaming industry, Vanguard is considered a virus and a risk if someone were to gain access to sensitive data through Vanguard. But also people who work in healthcare who previously had the game on their computer where they also work.
@mouldyvinegar566 "Lack of cheaters" Hahaha. You're funny. Vanguard has cheaters just like any other game. There are ways around the anticheat and the rise of Ai has made that even easier.
@@luckytanuki5449 I never said there were no cheaters. There are considerably fewer cheaters than on other games. Sure there are ways around it, that still doesn't mean that it doesn't deter cheating for the vast majority of people, and thus makes it a better experience.
Honestly massive amounts of the community HAVE quit, I bet riot just went and claimed those were part of the supposed bots. Wouldnt be the first time they lie on their "stats".
Glad that money driven corporation get "data" about its own controversial anti-cheat program showing it was succes(BTW, they didnt show any source, methodology or anithing they just plot a graph and said "see my spyware is actually a good thing!")
No amount of statistics or sources will please you conspiracy freaks. Freaking God, Zeus, and Odin could come down from the heavens to back up Riot and you'll still go "nuh uh I already made up my mind" like some brainwashed cultists. If Vanguard didn't work, why did all the cheating and botting discords freak out and start disinformation campaigns to make people critical of Vanguard?
I quit, I have since felt better about myself. Until I inevitably reinstall it to play with friends instead of Ranked. (oh and I unironically recall having more experience with bots after the Vanguard change so I'm still very skeptical about all this)
From my friend gruop of 12 that played before, now 3 still play, lol is getting boring and frustrating more now than ever, an Vanguard was the cherry on top
There is definitely less bots. As someone who often plays a quick Co-op vs. AI game for my first win of the day. There used to be 2-4 bot "players" in a coop game but now there is usually no bots. It sounds like maybe some of the dc's I see could've been bots but to be fair loading league as a new player and finding out your ancient laptop cant run it... is something I have been guilty of
Yasukeh and Richard Lewis already made videos regarding vanguard. Notable things to mention: All people who complained on reddit about Vanguard bricking their PC or having performance issues were BANNED from subreddit.
I did as well, at the beginning of the year, and I've been trying to find a fix ever since lmao...Played the game since start of S3 peaked at D1. Trying TFT and Wild Rift on my phone. Even tried writing a book lol
@@75SuperMario im playing some Heroes of the Storm for a bit of a nostalgia, cuz I had a buddy who played hots but not league and for now its pretty all right
The ban reversals section doesn't account for the two biggest cases: people getting banned and not trying to refute it and people contacting support and being rejected flat out. The latter is no doubt a massive number of cases since riot support can most generously be described as lazy. Anyone whose had dealings with riot support knows they are there to tick a box and nothing more.
As much as the few bans I have are due to "toxicity" (because this game brings out the worse in me) the emails I got in response were basically akin to a Discord moderator telling me to "shut the fuck up and just mute people instead bro instead of y'know actually attempting to socialize in a videogame".
Vanguard is the reason that my friend stopped playing, because he gets tons of errors. And with him stopping playing, I also stopped playing. Vanguard did more collateral damage than what it is worth it.
How did the serial inter on Twitch doing to bypass all the bans with so many accounts playing at the same time ? Haven't seen him for a while tho... but when vanguard was up he was still running multiples games down after multiples banned accounts
@@yeongwonhan95 Because Riot showed that the people who left is way lower than the people who stayed. You might argue that those graphs are not true... But it is something you can only speculate about with no proof.
@@yeongwonhan95to be fair people who would leave had wanted to leave for a while and this just gave them the extra push, they probably would have left with time regardless. But obviously there were people who left cause of vanguard
Oh yeah, lets DISABLE drives that we don't want instead of telling the player to disable the driver and block league from launching GAME FIRST FUNCTIONALITY LAST -Riot
I have no doubt that Vanguard is an overall positive on league in multiple issues, however it is interesting to me that the whole "retrospective" does not mention one bad thing about it. For example, the exploits like "Curse of the Dog" suddenly popping up after Vanguard when it was never happening before
@@renereiterer6058 not saying it did have anything to do with vanguard, altought entirely possible, just saying that they did appear after it was introduced. Making a post that was supposed to be a retrospective should mention the bad parts of it as well. The exploits were only an example
@@AjLuckyPL While i agree that they should address more issue, they did address some of it at the end. And the post is called 'vanguard retrospective' not just a lol retrospective.
My issue with Riots anticheat in particular is the fact that it is windows only. Most of my friends run linux gaming PCs so they were forced to quit, and as I don´t want to play without them i quit as well
Sure buddy. Sure. Linux makes 4% of all PCs and all your friends use it. Right. were they running league on mainframes or something or is it just another excuse to bash on something that you have t played in many years?
@@terry_the_terrible linux is better for gaming, the only time I use windows is when I have to for anti-cheat. Just because it's not as popular doesn't mean someone is lying.
@@terry_the_terrible distros exist my guy. some are significantly better/more cursed than others, but custom rebuild packages for linux installs are out there. just don't look at the furry ones for the love of fuck.
When Riot launched Vanguard for league, they did mention the Linux people. On top of the fact they never gave official support for Linux, by their metrics, they only had around 800 players playing on Linux. 800 is a lot of people, but compared to the other thousands of players they have, it's basically nothing, so logically it makes sense.
The current king is a good king but what about his son or grandson? Will they be good kings? If they grow up to be a tyrant will we be able to do anything about it? Vanguard may be sugar, spice, and everything nice right now but will it always be that way and will we be able to do anything about it going wrong if its been normalized to the point that every game has it? Its been said before but it should be repeated, if you trade away freedom for safety you will be left with neither.
@@luk4s56 Like specifically, what aspects of your privacy is Vanguard infringing upon? Like before and after Vanguard what becomes less private on your computer?
@@BrontiThor do you ever zoom cal for work ? Talk to frends about inventions or innovatieve idee or big deal you have hurd happening sune ? Even wen its of you can get feedback on a 🎤 and al you need to get this info is a AI like vanguard to start recording wen surten key word are spoken the same as with ads wen you get a ad for something you just spoke about And it can even go past that point more data points more options and you complaining to friends about health care problems can translate to 🕳️ in a social network that can be exploited and you can finde them the more data points you got For instance a shortage in Sutton medical medication , aspirin,asma meds and with this information you can target a hole nation so jore tiny amount of info can be huge
Saw a video about kernel level anti-cheats and how those have been bypassed in other games, and looked it up for league, and yeahh, there are scripts out there that bypasses vanguard by also getting kernel level access, and they're not getting banned. So the amount of cheating is probably down a bit, but probably not down quite as much as they say/think
How is cheaters having not that much higher winrate overtime a good sign? It proves how shitty the matchmaking is towards tryhard players. Even with perfect movement and sometimes whole map position tracking you can still only maintain a higher winrate for so long before the matchmaking "corrects" you with the right teammates.
Yeah, in normal game I notice that my teammate are a lot shittier and shittier especially after I win like 7-8 game consecutive. Some game even went like all my teammate are below level 10. In rank is kinda opposite but skill and rank gap between my teammate and opponent is a lot higher every consecutive win.
7:23 There is a misconception here. This is not the way riot detects bots. Bots are detected with Vanguard the same way cheaters are detected (moving patterns, background processes and drivers, etc.), but for this reason Vanguard makes no difference between a cheater and a bot. This database querry is basically obtaining the banned bots from all the Vanguard detections. The resolution and fps check is only made to differentiate banned bots from banned cheaters for statistic purposes, and not to actually detect bots in games.
Main reason I'm not a fan of Vanguard is simply that it means I can't play the game. Period. Haven't played League since they forced the Vanguard install - because it doesn't work on Linux anymore. So until they have a Linux solution (that doesn't suck), I've just become a League Watcher rather than a player, unfortunately.
They can't. Linux guarantees the user security (which is good imo) But that means that the video game and its anti-cheat don't have control, giving hackers free access. Until the anti-cheat revolution happens, Linux can't play most pvp games.
+125% smurfs on Valorant, trust me. I had 2 four man groups in my level 12 unrated match as a new player. They were all Gold to Diamon rankers. As for League, I'm one of those that quit after 14 years. Vanguard ain't the reason, it's the community, the smurfing and the bad seasons and matchmaking overall, which seems to persist in Valorant.
@@luk4s56 It's one thing to have a guy that bought an account int and die all game and it's another to have one that's literally 1v9 every game on an almost perfect winrate. But we all know Riot's not like Valve and they literally won't touch them because they buy skins on their extra accounts too.
Cool stats, cool graphs, still not spending a dime on league until it's gone. It's not just reinstalling windows that worries me, that's easy, it's redownloading everything that's not league. As games get bigger and bigger people will learn that nuking their steam library or their work related applications (some of which require hours upon hours of calibration) to spend time and money on league is just not worth it. Which will lower the player count and revenue, which will mean the cost of cosmetics will have to go up. I don't feel like redownloading and reconfiguring 2+TB of data to play 2-3 hours of ARAM. Vanguard is the straw that broke the camels back and until its gone in place of a less pervasive system we won't be returning.
Wat if you want a nation sosiol economic status group al the data points from there like Taiwan maby ?😮 and start scraping or recording in the background wen key word's are hit like ( he seery,he Google) and you can do it with alot of key words like income politics economy ppl got no idea about this rabbit hole its more like a black hole sins you doont no wat it's dowing and wen
Can't speak for anyone else, but I quit, haven't played league since Vanguard came out, have only played TFT on my iPad, I miss it, but I'm not risking bricking another PC, which is what happened when I installed Vanguard the first time when Valorant came out.
aside from being a potential security vulnerability and using more cpu than the game and needing to restart all the time and occasional BSODs its pretty okay
I've been playing LOL for years. When Swarm came over to the live server, i kept getting VAN128 error. I spent 2 weeks with support trying a hundred different things til they were basically like "you need to reinstall windows". For a game? Nah, i'm good. Fix your shit first. Been playing games for 35 years or so, have NEVER heard of reinstalling windows for a game.
Reinstalling windows is pretty easy nowadays. You just go to settings> system> recovery> reset this pc. Tried it before with my w11 laptop. Works like a charm.
@@jonelgoyal3406 It's not the difficulty I'm concerned with. I'm in IT, I do it every day. It's the amount of programs I have installed on my C drive that aren't easily replaceable. Lots of specialty tools and custom made programs.
it causes so many problems to our computers that had they not been transparent with what its doing we would give up from the many issues, black screens, needing to restart, removing actual players from games etc.
I'd have two concernces about the hardware bans. If someone doesn't have enough money to buy a brand new PC part and second hands it, though low but chances are that it could be hardware banned by Riot and you end up not being able to play after putting the part in, how is that gonna be handled? And what about staying somewhere else, like a family member or a friend and playing on their device like a gaming laptop or something. It would look like account sharing and even though I hope your friends wouldn't cheat, you never know what they have installed. What if Vanguard reads out some suspicous thing on your friends laptop and you getting the ban hammer for something you had no control over? I'd think there has to be some sort of line that could distinguish something like this, because cases like this can happen while the person is actually innocent.
They can pretty easily read location data from where stuff is coming in, so I imagine they would lift the ban on a purchased item. If you are playing on a friend's PC, again, the system can detect location data, so if you are constantly bouncing between NY and CA, obviously that is probably account sharing given that no one really wants to be flying cross country the whole day much less in 15 minutes of you logging out and someone else logging in.
if you let other ppl use your device, you shouldnt let them get admin rights, which I suppose is required for high level cheats. If a friend installs cheats on your device without telling you, investing a permabanned account to find out you have a bad friend should usually be worth it. HWID should be done with the TPM chip which is soldered on your MoBo. So yeah, you have a low chance of buying a 2nd hand PC and get your account suspended for. Both these cases should be explainable to Riot support and have a chance of getting your account back. But it is usually worth for a company to false ban 1/10.000 cases or something like that to stop 9.999 hackers from playing. You can have bad luck but the chances are so very slim it is negligible
@@MisterAssasine I mean those were hypertheticals, of course. Just something that came to mind when watching if a scenario like this was thought about and how it would be handled. It isn't much an issue if you let other people use your device if you don't cheat. The question was if you use a friend's device to play, not knowing what is on it. I've had a friend in school back when the old 3v3 was around, not the remake they did. He didn't cheat in League, but he did in Surf Servers in Counter Strike, mostly those without protection. It was basically more aimed towards something in that sort, but without knowing the whole cheating thing. It would still be on his device and if you were to play on it, maybe something might trigger. I'm sure it could be figured out by getting in contact with Riot, but still, even though it's an unlikely story, it could be true. Chances are slim for it to happen, but stranger things have happened in the world that it's not entirely unlikely.
I doont think that wil ever be solved if you got no money its not worth it for riot 400€ ari skin 200€ garen skin You think that riot give a shit about pore ppl wanting to play league na get a neuw laptop if you want to play at friends plaslce alor are you pore or something ( Blizzard: )
14:30 no this is the rate of vanguard making a mistake and then riot fixing it, we don't know the actual rate of mistakes because we don't know how good riot is at fixing mistakes when they are made.
Counterpoint: It lead to multiple people having terrible technical problems. Riot may say that very few people reported issues, but in reality majority of people have not reported it since their support system is not very useful. Riot has multiple times throught it's history blamed the victim, by saying it's fault of users not having very specific PC, while the code for vanguard is poorly written. Everyone knows that it's a kernel level anticheat just like many others. However there are multiple things that make it worse for your machine. Instead of running only when game starts and simply blocking you from running the game when there is conflict from other drivers, it demands to run at the start and WILL CEASE ANY DRIVER IT DEAMS CONFLICTING. Meaning it can sabotage your graphics card, ventilators and many other systems that might be essential. Not to mention that from TOS it seems like the only data Vanguard does not collect, would be your stool sample. Yasukeh and Richard Lewis made good informative videos on this topic.
No, in reality the majority of people have not reported anything because there is nothing to report. You have to be a special kind of stupid if you honestly believe the majority of people have technical issues.
Yup, I have some problems with Vanguard but they are really not worth reporting because I'd rather just uninstall League again if they become too bothersome. I tried to convince another friend to play League again and it broke their PC until they uninstalled the game, but again, what's the point in reporting the issues? To be fair, I do have another friend who plays League without problems, but that should be the case for all three of us. (Edit because someone will say it's because we have potato PCs... I personally do, but it's still good enough to run other, more fun MOBAs, and my first friend has a new PC that he uses for streaming so most likely not a potato.)
I haven't seen any credible evidence of vanguard breaking any PC's tbh. I could be wrong, but I just don't believe it. My guess is that most people tried to do that TMP fix and couldn't follow directions, and claimed that vanguard broke their PC when.
When I installed Valorant with Vanguard years ago, it legitimately fucked up my PC *and* never actually allowed me to play the game no matter what I did. My PC became unable to be put to sleep, shut down, or update for almost 2 years - it could only be forcibly shut down by holding the power button (which sometimes didn't work) or pulling the plug. That's almost 2 years of it permanently being on because I had no choice other than power it down fully every day which causes its own mileage wear and tear. Uninstalling didn't fix anything, either. I had to spend hundreds of dollars on other programs to try to fix the issue it caused, and those didn't even work. Eventually it just fixed itself of most of the problems, but Jesus Christ. I can't afford a new PC, I was only able to get this $5k one with the inheritance from my dead great aunt. Does Riot want me to have another relative die just to ATTEMPT to build a PC that works with Vangaurd? Not that they care. They already have over $1k from the years of cosmetics I paid for, including the last $20 I spent when I tried coming back just conveniently (for them) before they announced bringing in Vangaurd.
Would be nice if they put in a replay system so we can at least anecdotally confirm this ourselves (Valorant). Riot is hardly going to put out stats telling us that Vanguard was an unmitigated disaster... Outside of their ridiculous pricing model, Riot is keeping me away as long as they keep the vanguard system as operable 24/7. It's not standardized to have an anti-cheat which is that invasive. *Shrug* It's just a game. Only my anti-virus gets to be that invasive, and anti-virus companies have much more scrutiny, regulation, and policy around what they are expected to do than a video game company.
Rito games have some of the worst UI/UX and QoL known to humans. LoL is at the peak of it. Anyone who played other games knows this. Rito's doing an abysmal job, they're just too big to fail (for now).
Actually you are more exposed using an anti-virus than vanguard, use the windows defender that comes default with Windows. The more companies that have access to your computer the chances of one of those companies suffering a cyber attack or just a dumb update (crowdstrike) and compromising your computer is higher, and honestly is better to have a less preyed company like Riot having access to your PC than a highly preyed Kaspersky or Norton (one's that already sold clients data, suffer security breaches and compromised many computer) Remember, Riot's business model is selling you skins, battle passes and emotes, that's were they earn money; antivirus earn their money with you, especially free ones, remember the way they work is literally taking your information to improve their system, they save your data and can sell it and already did, Riot does not need to save anything 'cause that's not where they earn money. TLDR, don't use antivirus and if you really care about security don't use vanguard, but vanguard is better than antivirus.
@@HighLanderPonyYT nah not really. the ui in elden ring is shit and the game is still a banger. But i heard all the ubisoft games do have great ui, so you can play that
Despite the bad stories about Vanguard, after 2 months of not playing League because of Vanguard, I gave it a try. I instantly regretted it, as on the next startup my internet speed because so slow that I wasn't even able to watch streams, and of course it was only affecting the PC with Vanguard on. The internet worked flawlessly on all other devices. I tried to fix the problem for days, even called my ISP if they know anything about it, nothing. I then uninstalled Vanguard for safety, reinstalled Windows, and my internet speed got fixed. Never risking installing that plague again. Maybe it does its job at preventing cheaters, but it also does malicious things that aren't its job. Like never have I ever had such internet issues where it's only with one PC and seemingly there's no solution, and it happens on the first startup after Vanguard gets installed? That seems like way too much of a coincidence for me. Especially that with kernel level access, it's completely possible for Vanguard to disrupt and modify other drivers.
well, why did you ask your ISP on a problem related with software? That doesnt make sense. And instead of connecting with Riot Support, why did you first did all of that procedure of reinstalling windows? Pretty sure they could have told you what software caused the issue.
@@Deathnom Given the fact that while installing Vanguard on my laptop nuked my internet connection for a few minutes and that it gave my PC the equivalent of a heart attack , Yeah , I'd give this guy the benefit of the doubt
Can you or anyone actually even verify these numbers? The people who distrust Vanguard aren't going to magically change their mind because the company they distrust flung some numbers at them. I for one am happy about Vanguard. It gave me that last push I needed to quit League.
@@frostfrost8907 i don't think every player that said he would quit actually did BUT if I recall correctly there was a dent in the end of season ranked games the split vanguard launched. This also doesn't have to be a direct result but is quite sus imo
@@lumenblade1975 Oh, yeah, it absolutely happened. But... Most people came back. A group of friends (like 4 of them) left because of it and tried to play Dota and such. They came back after 2 weeks. I know this is no more than just personal experience, but I don't think they are the only ones either. Dota did show a spike of players that died off pretty quickly.
Even if you are not worried about privacy I still think it's concerning having riots code is at that level. But Maybe everyone has forgotten about crowdstrike now.
Wait until you find out that companies lie about their data to try and influence public opinion. Reality is they probably lost about 12-20% of real players since Vanguard, and I'm not talking only about quitters, but have you even seen the amount of people complaining about being banned and vanguard messing up their computer? And what about every single issue about not being able to uninstall League? While I appreciate your content, I also think you should use your channel and voice the concerns of the player base around this topic, and not try to fake-boost Riot with their lies about numbers.
I'd love it if Vanguard showed a stat of how often it closes itself after each game resulting in me needing to restart my PC because of a black screen
What did the support say to you?
@@Benjilovescats between jack and nothing. Not sure if they've even seen the tickets. To be fair, I don't know how many they have to sift through on the daily so I've resigned to getting used to it
@@nikowritesstuff9505 that's incredibly weird, they always check every ticket i send even during natural disasters
2GB RAM 😭
@@i_saidmeow2469 8 GB. It ain't a spring chick but it is not a shitbox
-99% bots and +99% leaver penalties for vanguard closing my client in the middle of a game
That’s just the client bro. 😂
@@phoenixflamegames1 really makes you wish LoL wasn't a giant bowl of code speghetti…
Cheater detected
don't cheat then bro
Bot lmao
Vanguard was so successful that several of my friends (including me) stopped playing League of Legends when it was implemented and now our lives are better for it. Thank you, Riot!
People know everything anyway tbh I just want decent games.
Same. Vanguard was literally the biggest thing that got me to quit that godforsaken game. Haven't looked back since
Exactly! I started in Season 2 and have been addicted for far too long. After I spent $5000 on the game I was looking for some way to quit. Vangard shutting down my system finally set me free!
100% bro
Playing since season 1 and I finally was able to quit thanks to Vanguard. Good job Riot
it's so successfull that even non bots gets affected
looks like we got "collateral damage"
Yep, I can only play windowed else it just doesn't respond. Really weird, but okay.
@@sybowI now wonder if borderless or windowed could fix my issue
Why I havent gotten affected by it? and my pc is running on old parts that played the old league
When I barely open the League client (im a very casual player, I'm more interested in the lore. I know weird) Vanguard still opens on launching my PC and im betting is responsible for the drop in my PC's performance (I dont have a potato, Its a purpose built gaming machine).
The latest windows update broke vanguard for me and when I contacted support, they told me to disable windows security to play.
That concerning
not related to riot but windows yesterday Black Myth Wukong was running smooth on medium, 1 update later.....
@@arifmaulana97 No it isn't, windows is just garbage (and also a proven spyware, unlike vanguard)
It's not because of Vanguard. Riot said that windows did an update that broke it and they can't do anything about it. It's in windows hands, not theirs
@@Citrin1s It *is* because of Vanguard. This is the risk of kernel level software, they need to be programmed with utmost care and with every possible problem being thought of. They are in the ball park of medical equipment and on-board software (ones built into machines that cannot be upgraded easily). Because if a normal software fails, task manager or restart will do the job. But kernel level? You're in for a world of trouble. Best case scenario is that it just doesn't work, worst case scenario you can only launch Windows in safe mode now.
I can say that kernel level anticheats being used for nefarious means isn't really a theory anymore, it happened with genshin a while ago, and it was so broad that you didn't even have to install the game to have its anticheat break your system
Basically, Microsoft whitelisted "Genshin Impact Anti-Cheat" as a "legitimate rootkit" and then some malware was able to disguise itself as "Genshin Impact Anti-Cheat."
Microsoft basically installed a doggy door in their bank vault. Which ironically is the exact analogy some Riot employee used to dismiss Linux support for League of Legends.
7:41 it’s not saying resolution is 1000x1000 but combined is less than 1000. So it could be 400x599 for example
If you can't play LoL at 480p30 on LOW, yeah. it's extremely suspicious.
even 720+480 is far above 1000. and that was the NGC's Screen res.
The problem I have with these graphs is that it only shows detected accounts. Since there's no way to truly know how may accounts were duplicates or how many hackers there are in general all we know is that a lot of accounts were taken out. The second issue is that the hackers will just find a way pass the detection which honestly I wouldn't be surprised if they haven't already. If the cheat detection bans mid match its a plus for the hacker because you get quicker feedback to what does and does not work.
Edit. I forgo to state that on the Microsoft update for ELAM it is just a means for the anti-malware drivers to well drivers in general to start before anything else has a chance the come online. The problem with this is that its still becomes a race to see who starts first since hackers can use the same process in their methods. The only way Microsoft can make all of this obsolete is if they completely lock you out of your BIOS of you computer and that would not go well with a lot of entities.
my entire friend group of 20 players stoped playing after Vanguard and we´re all happier for it
Mine didn't, but I did.
I used to play it on linux, I have no doubt that league and vanguard can be made available for linux, but I have no intention of installing the rootkit on my system.
Yep, I was the last one in my group playing. We're officially done now, I just closed the door 💪😌
same, now we all having fun playing other games that otherwise we would not... lol
My dude, they just released the survivors mode that brought Alot of players back. AND the brought back arena that is their most popular mode. They should have doubled their numbers. Instead they are just stable!
And beyond that Arcane teasers are releasing! They should have even more from that! That they are just stable is a huge failure!
precisely. Youd assume it would have a higher peak than stable. its probably because people cant be swayed about positives of vanguard over terrible negatives about vanguard as well. Not worth imo.
who is playing arena this days ? its not even close to a real league game .. What is Arcane make League more popular ? its just lore and uk not playing league is a thing of the mechanics u need to play this game .. its just not enough to have a mouse and some fingers ... also this is the game with the biggest playerpool on world beside CS ig ? so how to get even bigger if u already sucks all the people in which are interessted into stuff like that ? if there is noone left to recrute i gess u did a nice job before already .. This game gets bigger and bigger from year to year .. u cant argument like they have to be bigger instead they just stable .. bro stable means they grwoth in there predicted ratio ...
I feel like I'm one of the few people that sees Vanguard as just an "okay, that's pretty neat." It didn't break my laptop either, and I use a cheap ass laptop.
Not the few, the vast majority of people have 0 issue with vanguard. But you don't hear from them so you think everyone has an issue
@@soroushkowsarian3364 True, I'm using Win 10, so everything is fine with Vanguard too
Yeah me too. Other than the crashing bugs it had a while ago, I dont have a problem with it. I dont like it but I dont hate it either. It's just...there. And as someone who was in iron and got bots constantly, its been a blessing.
The issue with Vanguard is that it has access to your computer that it (in the mind of many) that it shouldn't. It's not a matter of your computer breaking, but the fact that it has access to everything on your computer, when there are options (according to people who know a lot more than me) that are just as effective, but are not invasive.
@@1Kapuchu100 So you just read what some people said and took it as facts? Sorry, but anything someone would want to access can be accessed without kernal level access.
1:24 I actualy DID quit, but maybe that's because I'm a software developer and it wasn't long after they added it to League that the CrowdStrike thing happened, which is basically the same kind of kernel driver, just used for a different purpose.
I'm calling it: Riot will have a CrowdStrike moment at some point in the future.
And watching that particular ship go down in flames is gonna be quite entertaining.
Wanna bet on how it's gonna happen?
I bet cha it's gonna be a change in vanguard to allow verified software to use their overlay functions that will let someone access vanguard and just toggle it on and off when they feel like it.
necrit learning about the advanced communication technique called lying will happen someday, i believe
No way bro, companies lie? Even my favourite games? It can't be true! I must believe them and everyone else is wrong!
Also, only Riot has access to the data of what Vanguard is accomplishing, but they could just say whatever they want, it's not like anyone could verify that. I don't think they are lying but small 'beauty corrections' could add up aswell.
Yes for now it seems to not be a problem but riot owners are tensent nou and thatd a subsidiary of Chinese government and we al now houw open and transparent they are
Haven't played a single game of League since Vanguard was required. No plans to start again. I don't like giving a company that much power over my computer. What info are they gathering? Who safeguards it? What happens if there's a data breach?
Every platform, every game you play has all your information already. Might as well just stop using the internet 😂
@@alexastorm97 they dont have kernel level access to my computer. They have information based on what i provide them. I am okay with sharing what i deem sharable, i dont want to give them full access to my pc's memory.
You gave access to your computer by downloading an exe file. They could do all of that just as equally well (and arguably better because LoL is a piece of spaghetti) targeting the LoL client instead of Vanguard. There have been security leaks for drivers, if you ever bought a cheap peripheral there could be security leaks if the driver (which is also kernel level) is dodgy. By your reasoning don’t download anything. Hell your browser could steal all your information through a side channel attack like spectre. By your logic nothing is safe so just completely uninstall.
Yes I should never leave my house either because it’s too dangerous. Maybe I’ll find a cave and hide myself in it forever. Let’s be rational about this, what power do those programs have compared to what Vanguard does? They’re drastically different from what Vanguard can access and monitor.
@@FatherDragonKal No, they aren't that different. If someone managed to compromise a user space program, it's entirely possible, and bluntly not that difficult for them to elevate permissions. If paint was compromised you'd be screwed.
Regardless, kernel level access is still overkill, you can do plenty of damage without it, just look at most malware.
Consider some attack vector for vanguard - explicitly, why is this not as applicable for the LoL client? You seem to think vanguard is so much more vulnerable, yet if we held all software to the same standard you hold vanguard then you shouldn't trust any software.
Yes, i did uninstall league and quit it forever and yes i will still watch lore videos because they are amazing.
Same, also quit because of Vanguard.
likewise because of vanguard.
@@ThaBornIdentity I'm curious, now that this data is out and people can see that Vanguard it's just bringuing good things to the table, are you still out because of it or because you broke the shackles of LoL?
@@Xelofrost I would say I left because of vanguard, but I probably stayed away because I broke the shackles (mostly).I still dont believe its not their own fault for blue screen crashes from a friends experience but whatever. I mean everyone praises vanguard but I dont believe its really changed the players that'll stay or the ones who left for it in my opinion. Dont believe itll bring more players into the game, but as long as its stagnant and doesnt fall off playerbase, the game will be just fine.
@@ThaBornIdentity I'm glad you choose to stay free my guy, so far Vanguard hasn't been a concerned for me or any of my friends, but I do know some people have some problems with it
I fucking love vanguard. Thanks to it I just left League and never looked back. So yeah, Vanguard is fucking great
FREEEEEDOM BROTHER!!!!
One more freed by awfully designed software and corporate incompetence. My favourite real life tale...
And yet you are still here watching a League video. So I guess you are looking back
Cheater detected xD
@@PatrikManHora Thats like claiming someone who refuses to play fallout games is a hypocrite because they watched the tv show, what idiotic logic.
When vanguard launched I stopped playing league since pre season 1. A much needed push over the edge. Thanks vanguard.
I just can't play anymore on my computer. Send 5 tickets to riot, not a single of their answers helped me, and they closed my ticket unresolved. So... Yeah... Togther with that, q lot of lag spikes, game crashing, the first scripter that I saw was when Vanguard was active, my notebook got significantly worse and I have to restart my notebook a lot nowdays, and it got significantly hoter.
Just uninstall League and Vanguard from your computer. Play Deadlock instead
@@Soren59 Or DotA. All champions free!
I love how people are saying, it went down to 1%. No, only 1% of the games have DETECTED scripters.
Or reported cheaters for that matter. That graph getting lower OVER TIME is definitely concerning. That is usually a sign cheaters get better stealth scripts.
But hey, less bots. That's a positiv
@@chriwehl7173 do you understand how the graph works
Exactly
@@chriwehl7173Bots are kinda gone at least unless they are really well made.
Scripting is down but the two console thing allows scripts to exist.
Vangaurd successfully made me unistall league of legends.
I really dont get it, why vanguard is a problem? U are on yt rn giving all ur info for google the same way, they use ur info to recommend shit for u, to train their IA and what else?
@@Alisson00001 Google is not running from second i turn on my computer. Do you leave your front door open? Hackers never exploited anti cheat before.
@@Alisson00001 They don't really need a reason. They are a customer, and when a product they use changes even slightly, they reserve the right to stop buying & engaging with the aforementioned product. It's very simple customer engagement metrics.
It's a victory for you.
@@Alisson00001 It isn't. People are just stupid enough to actually think that other companies don't use kernel level anticheat and think they have any semblance of privacy online
13:43 Sharing hardware isn't sharing the account. It's simply more than one people that use the same PC, which is not against any rules.
yeah like internetcafe they are quite popular in Asia ... u can find there cafes with 20+ high end gaming PCs
Don't bother arguing.
Lol are they banning for that now too. When I was playing this pos game my sister also played on same pc on different account even besides that what about internet cafes will you get banned for logging from those now lol.
I dont think they meant that by sharing hardware, it can be that a cheater who got banned sold his pc to someone else and that person was having problems because vanguard just remembered that this PC had 3rd party software in the past and eventually can have it again, and for now it can be solved only by contacting support.
@@cin2110To be fair. If a computer gets cheated on. Them hwid banning that person and then their sister gets affected is not league of legends responsibility.
It sucks. But hey. The one cheating did this not league.
If Riot removes the ability to message ban appeals, false positives become simple positives
Regardless of whether or not Vanguard is as horrible as people were afraid of or not, it got me to uninstall League from my computer. The actual details of how Vanguard works and what it does is irrelevant, the reputation that kernel-level anti-cheats have is damaging enough.
Sidenote; holy shit, I've never had a program be that hard to remove. It felt like League was a living virus inside my computer, burrowing deeper into my files the harder I tried to remove it. I'm glad I finally got that shit off my computer lol
Youre already probably playing a dozen other games with kernel level anti cheat, you just dont know it. Nearly every game on the market uses it, it is no reason to drop league over. Dont listen to people spreading hate when they just learned what kernel level means when league added vanguard, listen to the actual professionals
@@aetriandimitri190 Nice try rito
@@taricplz8384 not riot, just a person who's done an ounce of research and knows other games do the exact same thing
@@aetriandimitri190 So for you it's fine because other games are doing it. Well, do what you want but I hope you won't regret trusting rito too much.
@@taricplz8384 yeah, it is fine because other games are doing it, and because it's not an issue. If someone wants your info, they aren't going to need to use a games anti cheat to get it. Do you think before games had anti cheat it was impossible to steal people's info?
Kernal level access hacking is not still a "theory". we just went through a the worst computer outage in history from a bad code deployment of kernal level software Crowdstrike.
yeah cause crowdstrike BYPASSES the validation cycles that are usually imposed on having certificated kernel level software by using configurations. Usually to have certificated kernel level software the software has to run without flaws through hundreds, perhaps thousands of tests on many different end devices. Vanguard doesnt use configs that are loaded through internet so I assume they run through all these tests on every new vanguard version
@@MisterAssasine Can you confirm that Vanguard is re-evaluated on a regualr basis? If not then this argument is bunk.
worth noting that this outage wasnt malicous at all tho. there was a mistake made. and while it certaintly wasnt good at all, in the end, we are humans and people do make mistakes. usually stuff is caught, esp when this important and large, but every now and then stuff slips through the cracks.
we have yet to have a case of kernel level anticheats compromising someones computer. but, feel free to prove me wrong. im more than happy to see any sorts of evidence of that. people really out here screaming riot is taking all ur data, yet noone has literally any proof. tho, there are people that have tracked vanguards activities, like for instance network usage, and noone has found anything wrong.
kernel level access hacking as u say, hasnt been an issue. crowdstrike didnt hack or anything like that. they pushed a bad update. and that update got accepted cus its from a trusted company. and again there was no compromise, it was a coding error, that didnt get caught before it was to late.
@@MisterAssasineYou hopefully assume that a huge company won't fuck up, but the history shows different... And EA already shown how some companies just straight put a trojan into your PC and fuck you for caring about it.
CrowdStrike does not count as it was not a hack. It was purely someone breaking protocol and not testing a patch. That isn't a cyber security attack it's just incompetence. Not saying it isn't an issue but let's not call something that isn't hacking hacking
Vangaurd has been a net gain for Riot but some important notes about botting -
They measure the botting hours by taking the lifetime of an account they've banned for botting. The vast majority of people botting ran on Windows, but after vanguard they had to move over to OSX (no vanguard required). The giant drop in botting is a combination of riot banning a large number of windows botters and a large number of botters moving to OSX. Riot still can't efficiently track OSX botting due to the lack of Vanguard enforcement on Mac. No Vanguard means a lot less data is sent to Riot for them to analyze. The same issue, to a lesser extent, exists for scripters.
These numbers are impressive, but the infographics are misleading because they can never have a full scope of the data unless all users are on Vanguard. Vangaurd has had a massive effect against hackers and botters using Vangaurd and no effect on anyone who moved to OSX.
Yea thats because its so much more rare for any OSX software to need kernal access full stop but because Windows is an absolute hot mess the only way they can assure security is Kernal access just look at Crowdstrike.
while yeah OSX doesnt have vanguard... it moves the ppls to one system... so they just look into OSX user stats and flag all the accounts with strange behavoir
anything is better than nothing is what to take away here. sure, graphs like these are always partially misleading. theres always biases and other stuff to take into account. but, its not taking away from how efficient it is.
and if botters and cheaters are moving to mac, thats a win if u ask me. they are spending loads of money on apple products uneccessarily, they are sure bypassing the fence, but they also have to crawl through mud eat sand and walk on legos to do it.
loads of anti cheat anti bot etc is about acessibility. its why free to play games struggle infinitely more. simply by adding a 10$ price tag to cheating, theres all of a sudden a WAY lower demand for cheats. the less accessible it is, the less people u have to even worry about in the first place.
Moving to OSX makes that stuff fairly inaccessible. Like, are you really willing to spend $1000 just for cheating? Or buying hundreds of Macs just for botting. It's still a win, it hits their bottom line, and makes it less likely for others to join in.
@@HappyGickI heard they’re adding it to Mac’s later too so if they did buy Macs then, well, wasted money on their end then XD
0:22 most anti cheats don't run on your machine 24/7 significantly reducing the risks attached to such access which by the way isn't a theory, it's a fact. You can gaslight people all you want and downplay how shady Vanguard is and nothing will change about Vanguard, it's a literal malware just by looking at how it affects your PC performance let alone the security risks.
Yea its kinda wild that even my browsers run more smoothly after i close Vanguard.
Your cpu has an NSA backdoor that can be accessed as long as your PC has power. Vanguard is quite literally the least of your worries. Intel ME and AMD PSP aren't going anywhere so your PC is never safe from interference anyways.
@@pamdabeep 99 attack vectors are still better than 100.
@@pamdabeepThere’s already poison in the water, so who cares about the poison in the bread?
@@pamdabeepI like the comparasion between two of the most important companies of tech world whose tecnology is what keeps CPU running with a company that runs a videogame. They are on the same league, ofc
I stopped playing after Vanguard released.
@@kosmiquecute. I stopped playing a bit before vanguard because I knew how this beast of an anti cheat works, and expected plenty of issues.
Did not expect the bricked notebooks tho.
My hardware is old and would be pretty much compromised in (the already poor) performance for everything I have to do, so why take the risk if I can simply cut league instead?
@@kosmique In reality its opposite. Had 100+ scripters in friend list in 3 accounts, most of them continued playing while few old-school players who dont like cheating uninstalled this sht after vanguard release.
From RITO side of view it's success, if most players cheating then no one will complain about cheats.
@@kosmique rtrd
I highly doubt those numbers present reality in the slightest. What I assume they did it manual vs automatic detection. Previously, it happened a ton that an acc got to high elo and was then banned, or if an acc got reported a lot for toxic behavior, it was figured out quite easily it's a bot account, due to match history, playstyle and mode selection. But this only really works if you assume that you know all of the accounts, else the statistic is not wrong, but kind of useless. I say that it's not wrong because that means the system actually manages to detect and flag them, but there could be 10x as many accounts, just that the other 900% use a different method that is neither figured out automatically, nor by a person. And I assume that's also what the script detection rate is based on, automatic detection vs manual detection.
And i think alot of ai bots got ignored and are probably riot bots to boost the numbers if the losses are to big it wil Shame the tensent leadership (Chinese government)
And that is bad for the government
eh vanguard made not playing league easier since it keeps asking for a restart just to play even when vanguard is still running.
Potato PC I guess
Don't know what's your computer problem my PC can run for 7 days straigth and vangard has nothing to say about anything
@@mathi2894 in my friend group about half of the people have this problem, with PCs ranging from 500 to 2k in price. i dont think its a potato angle.
Ok😊
@@mathi2894 I don't shut down either , maybe sleep mode, no idea I just don't bother any more
8:20 The query shown isn’t how they detected/banned the bots. It is how they identified the bots in the dataset of all detections to generate the graph and come up with the botting hours. It could theoretically be that there are more advanced bots which don’t get detected and therefor don’t show up in the statistic.
10:54 I think someone missed a number Riot. 0, 10, 20, 30, 50, 50?
It's just a small company, give them some slack
@@ShiroiYomuand trust that they know what they do at the kernel level...
200 years of dev experience, bro.
They can't even make a proper client for their flagship game. I don't trust rito on this one chief.
ever considered that the 2 things here are completely seperate things? the anti cheat team doesnt make the client lmao. no, i wouldnt trust the artists with code, but i would trust them in making good art. no, i wont trust that the client team is doing a good job, but that team isnt the anti cheat team. the anti cheat team does the anti cheat, not the client.
and if u think that argument doesnt make sense cus riot is riot, same company, u clearly are naive and dont understand larger corperations well.
@@Cryoptic_ have you ever considered that riots management.. manages said teams? im not asking for artists to code, im asking them to get devs to create a working client for their main title. if they cant do that i dont have trust in the company.
Just trust the billion dollar company that is really trying hard to convince you to trust them that is involved with a Chinese company and we all know the Chinese always have good intentions and are honest about everything that they do and never once lie ever!
@@MasterStaconaMicrosoft already has kernel level access to everything you do since windows 10 22h2.
If you don't trust riot, you shouldn't trust Microsoft too. Google and apple as well.
Just go and live in a cave already.
@@Cryoptic_A company that can't even make a proper browser tries to aim at your KERNEL to solve their problems. Rational like drinking gasoline.
never touched my closed beta account since the inception of vanguard. there is a difference between running on demand and just running it permanently. when goverments can be hacked, riot can be too.
i also believe nothing Riot says about their own product where their motive as a company is to get you back to play and pay... They will do ANYTHING they can to do so even if it means blatantly lying to you and basically saying "You can trust us bro, we got no ill intent, we are perfectly honest and will never lie! :^) "
Not if they're the ones hacking you to sell your info to governments and other companies! 😉
Lmfao, your information is available almost anywhere. Vanguard is the least of your concern
@@alexhardy373 there is a different levels of private data. If they can hack Vanguard it won't be just your internet history or your shopping preferences. Hell they might inject a ransomware via Vanguard if they can successful hack it.
It might or might not happen but I won't take the risk. I refuse to install any game with Vanguard on my working PC.
ur really not that important + you use google so ur data is already out there
So successful, in fact, that it's actually kept me out of LoL since its launch and I've had more time to do other things and play other games in my backlog....and after a few months I've realized, hmmm, I guess it's not worth the potential vulnerability for me and look at all the time I gained to consume other things now. But that's just me though, people can do whatever they want of course. Thank you, Vanguard!
Bang on! Its evident that Vanguard is working for riot, but I just don't quite trust it. Also my League client at the time really hated that I was using a VPN as well. If people say that we need to accept it or piss off; well, off I will piss.
I've also been far less angry in my day-to-day as I'm no longer raging on riot through their services.
Now I'm just enjoying their wonderful single-player game, Legends of Runeterra.
If you play any other games, then its no difference
You say that while using youtube, which belongs to google, which has all your information. Not to mention all the ad companies knowing everything about you through internet thanks to their argorithms. We have 2024, 2025 soon, and people like this still exist lmfao.
@@itsgonnabeokay9341 I don't think facts and logic work with these people.
I am one of the quiters. Haven't plsyed since the week after the vanguard patch. I can't stand the idea of s kernel level anticheat and, above all else, it was frying my pc. It was using at least 50% of my cpu XDDD
I still don't get why necrit never recognizes that riot often manipulates the data they post, they should include the data for accounts who had issues, couldn't resolve them and just went dark i bet those numbers are not nearly as minor as the false ban stuff, what %contacted riot and couldn't get help, and how many just never did that and went dark because not worth the effort, why does the client rename itself when uninstalling instead of properly uninstalling? all things riot wont ever address despite being valid questions.
my conputer speaks chinese and yells that taiwan isnt a country with a riot vanguard logo. what do i do?
Learn chinese
Wake up.
...source: "Trust me bro"
Necrit is informing you guys, why do you have to act as flat earth believers
press alt + shift
8:15 no that's not what they are trying to say. They are saying that the difference between scripters and botters is hard to figure out because they use the same methods, so they use resolution + FPS to differentiate between scripters and botters. They do NOT use it to detect players.
wouldnt be surprised if thats also used to flag suspicious accounts tho. a very simple and rather primal way to do it. but it certantly can add to a system. its just taking a whole bunch of "ppl dont do that normally" and stacking them on top of each other. if ur doing something 1 in 1000 ppl do, and ur doing another thing only 1 in 10000 people do, whatever ur doing is very weird and not common, and can easily be just flagged for "sus / weird activity" for further investigation.
Don't even bother arguing.
@@ilucasz U ok bro?
Are you gonna tell everyone to stop arguing?
Is everything ok at home?
@@xhantTheFirst Would you want to go through a meaningless fight? Because that's what discussing with people defending Vanguard is, especially if your questioning goes for Necrit, who is the person with most incentives to die on a hill defending Vanguard.
I got DDOS'd in game 6 matches ago, the guy friended me and BRAGGED about it after.
I fought a bot xerath named 'botting Jarvis' 3-4 games ago.
Vanguard made my fans not work with anything but DC power.
It feels like a flop, and i don't believe this sht at all.
Don't. its their own data lol. Its just for advertisers to spend more on them
No offense but your experience is anecdotal and data is not
source:trust me bro😊
Anti-cheat doesn't mean cheating is impossible.
People will still cheat, you can't completely eliminate it.
@@n0tf1sh40 You mean him or riot?
Or.. this is a big one.. They're lying about the numbers, just like every other gaming company is lying about the numbers! 🤨
How dare you say such lies on Riot's Avocate channel?
You can go on cheating forums and see for yourself, or ask around if Vanguard is effective. Spoiler alert: it very much is. The misconceptions people have are usually just misinformed opinions or pure fear-mongering by engagement-hungry individuals.
Source: I’ve been developing cheats as a hobby for over 10 years
While i could say that this is prpbably real there are a few things worth noting like the technical complaints regarding it are still as prevalent now as they were when valorant brought vanguard to widespread use
That's pretty normal for most complex problems though
Is that supposed to be a problem?
i played valorant for some time even after i realised they used kernel-level anticheat before i decided to deinstall. but i encountered A LOT of cheaters in this game. sadly kernel-level-anticheat alone doesnt mean sh*t in regards to efficiency. if it was a 100% thing (or even closer to it) the argument for it would be stronger... but it's not. sadge
@@LukeFluxcapacitorI'm pretty sure you encountered less cheaters than you think.
@@rainyprac or even more. both possible.
Where tf did these graphs come from? What statistics are they based on? How do they know the amount of current cheaters and how come they cant trace them if they know how many there are??
The greatest success of vanguard is that it finally made me and some friends uninstall League of Legends. Thanks Riot for creating this stupid 24/7 rootkit, it finally made me quit lol.
Vanguard played tricks on my PC. Much better after uninstalling League and any software related to it.
0:55 In theory? I wasn't wrong for thinking that Necrit would be totally on Riot's Lawyer Mode in this video...
But the real question is, how many have uninstalled after Vanguard realese ? Oh wait, we will never know.
How many have uninstalled due to too many cheaters? I know people who prefer Valorant over other shooters due to the lack of cheaters. Don’t act like there is nothing positive.
@@mouldyvinegar5665 Yes, I can definitely see people stopping playing at a high level. (where there are most cheaters)
But please don't put words in my mouth. That's pretty rude.
I know some who don't get to play it because of where they work. For example, in the gaming industry, Vanguard is considered a virus and a risk if someone were to gain access to sensitive data through Vanguard. But also people who work in healthcare who previously had the game on their computer where they also work.
@mouldyvinegar566 "Lack of cheaters" Hahaha. You're funny. Vanguard has cheaters just like any other game. There are ways around the anticheat and the rise of Ai has made that even easier.
@@luckytanuki5449 I never said there were no cheaters. There are considerably fewer cheaters than on other games.
Sure there are ways around it, that still doesn't mean that it doesn't deter cheating for the vast majority of people, and thus makes it a better experience.
@@mouldyvinegar5665
Please don't put words in my mouth. That's pretty rude. Did I write something in my text that there is nothing positive about it?
Honestly massive amounts of the community HAVE quit, I bet riot just went and claimed those were part of the supposed bots. Wouldnt be the first time they lie on their "stats".
Glad that money driven corporation get "data" about its own controversial anti-cheat program showing it was succes(BTW, they didnt show any source, methodology or anithing they just plot a graph and said "see my spyware is actually a good thing!")
No amount of statistics or sources will please you conspiracy freaks. Freaking God, Zeus, and Odin could come down from the heavens to back up Riot and you'll still go "nuh uh I already made up my mind" like some brainwashed cultists. If Vanguard didn't work, why did all the cheating and botting discords freak out and start disinformation campaigns to make people critical of Vanguard?
Yea its super easy to show graphs that make you look like the good guy but wheres the data to back that up?
Someone that gets it.
1:21 "The players who said they would quit... Didn't quit"
That's addiction for ya
I quit, I have since felt better about myself. Until I inevitably reinstall it to play with friends instead of Ranked. (oh and I unironically recall having more experience with bots after the Vanguard change so I'm still very skeptical about all this)
thats every single internet boycott ever
From my friend gruop of 12 that played before, now 3 still play, lol is getting boring and frustrating more now than ever, an Vanguard was the cherry on top
I did quit! And moved to wild rift...
I quit. Been playing since season 1 and Vanguard made me quit. Going to miss out on my first ranked skin ever this season.
There is definitely less bots. As someone who often plays a quick Co-op vs. AI game for my first win of the day. There used to be 2-4 bot "players" in a coop game but now there is usually no bots. It sounds like maybe some of the dc's I see could've been bots but to be fair loading league as a new player and finding out your ancient laptop cant run it... is something I have been guilty of
I don't care how many good stats Necrit shows me, I'm not installing that spyware.
Who asked?
@@itsgonnabeokay9341 Necrit. He asks for opinions in the comments.
@@itsgonnabeokay9341 me
you are using youtube and by proxy google , if someone wants your data they will have it vanguard would not change that fact.
Yasukeh and Richard Lewis already made videos regarding vanguard.
Notable things to mention:
All people who complained on reddit about Vanguard bricking their PC or having performance issues were BANNED from subreddit.
ah yes misinformation my favorite breakfast
Can't complain about it bricking computers if they ban them!
@@cherno8336NA classic, the people follow what the media doing 😂
Skill Issue
@@paciliaa yea just like a RUclipsr pranking a jetpack guy on LAX and they believe it
literally got 4 bots when i went to play vs AI , just to see if they actually removed first win of the day from winning there
Well, I for one, did uninstall League when Vanguard was made a requirement. But let's be real, nobody will notice just one gamer uninstalling.
nah bro there is two of us
I did as well, at the beginning of the year, and I've been trying to find a fix ever since lmao...Played the game since start of S3 peaked at D1.
Trying TFT and Wild Rift on my phone. Even tried writing a book lol
@@75SuperMariopath of exile
@@75SuperMario im playing some Heroes of the Storm for a bit of a nostalgia, cuz I had a buddy who played hots but not league and for now its pretty all right
i uninstalled everything when vanguard was a requirement too
I don’t always put my computer in sleep mode, but when I do it’s in the middle of a game.
The ban reversals section doesn't account for the two biggest cases: people getting banned and not trying to refute it and people contacting support and being rejected flat out. The latter is no doubt a massive number of cases since riot support can most generously be described as lazy. Anyone whose had dealings with riot support knows they are there to tick a box and nothing more.
As much as the few bans I have are due to "toxicity" (because this game brings out the worse in me) the emails I got in response were basically akin to a Discord moderator telling me to "shut the fuck up and just mute people instead bro instead of y'know actually attempting to socialize in a videogame".
Vanguard is the reason that my friend stopped playing, because he gets tons of errors. And with him stopping playing, I also stopped playing.
Vanguard did more collateral damage than what it is worth it.
Riot doesn't care
sorry to hear bro, i never had any issues with valorant or league when playing for years now. So i guess the experience can be different
@@rayznshineGood for them. But the OPs post is not about them.
You stopped playing league? Sounds like vanguard did you a favor :D
Bad for Riot, good for you.
How did the serial inter on Twitch doing to bypass all the bans with so many accounts playing at the same time ? Haven't seen him for a while tho... but when vanguard was up he was still running multiples games down after multiples banned accounts
he was there like 3 days ago
Inting is not getting hardware banned. Yet.
That's fake news, bro. When did Riot fail or lie?
well this aged like milk
now they're retiring vanguard lol
not finding any news on that one
Yeah, a big success. It made me FINALLY uninstall the game.
LMFAO I know so many people who quit after this idk how anyone can say this is a "W for riot" lol
but why? its literally an improvement
@@yeongwonhan95 lmao keep crying, the game won't die and you'll 100% return when you realize that no game will satisfy that itch that only League can
@@yeongwonhan95 Because Riot showed that the people who left is way lower than the people who stayed. You might argue that those graphs are not true... But it is something you can only speculate about with no proof.
@@yeongwonhan95to be fair people who would leave had wanted to leave for a while and this just gave them the extra push, they probably would have left with time regardless. But obviously there were people who left cause of vanguard
My only problem with Vanguard is that I have to manually disable it in order to get decent performance when Im playing Elden Ring
Oh yeah, lets DISABLE drives that we don't want instead of telling the player to disable the driver and block league from launching GAME FIRST FUNCTIONALITY LAST -Riot
And obviously Vanguard didn't cause any BSODs, probably something It decided to disable caused It (not Vanguard's fault according to Riot)
I haven't played Summoner's Rift or Howling Abyss since Vanguard went live and I couldn't get the client to start.
If they did such an amazing job dealing with bots, why is it every game I play has one or two bots in them?
Its riot ai bots and woont get flagd but wil boost game number
I have no doubt that Vanguard is an overall positive on league in multiple issues, however it is interesting to me that the whole "retrospective" does not mention one bad thing about it. For example, the exploits like "Curse of the Dog" suddenly popping up after Vanguard when it was never happening before
what
@@BDenjoyer dude is talking about the bug that caused games to crash if you send a specific text in chat. Has nothing to do with vanguard
@@renereiterer6058 not saying it did have anything to do with vanguard, altought entirely possible, just saying that they did appear after it was introduced. Making a post that was supposed to be a retrospective should mention the bad parts of it as well. The exploits were only an example
@@renereiterer6058 Do we have evidence one way or the other?
@@AjLuckyPL While i agree that they should address more issue, they did address some of it at the end. And the post is called 'vanguard retrospective' not just a lol retrospective.
My issue with Riots anticheat in particular is the fact that it is windows only. Most of my friends run linux gaming PCs so they were forced to quit, and as I don´t want to play without them i quit as well
Sure buddy. Sure.
Linux makes 4% of all PCs and all your friends use it. Right.
were they running league on mainframes or something or is it just another excuse to bash on something that you have t played in many years?
@@terry_the_terrible linux is better for gaming, the only time I use windows is when I have to for anti-cheat. Just because it's not as popular doesn't mean someone is lying.
@@terry_the_terrible distros exist my guy. some are significantly better/more cursed than others, but custom rebuild packages for linux installs are out there.
just don't look at the furry ones for the love of fuck.
When Riot launched Vanguard for league, they did mention the Linux people. On top of the fact they never gave official support for Linux, by their metrics, they only had around 800 players playing on Linux. 800 is a lot of people, but compared to the other thousands of players they have, it's basically nothing, so logically it makes sense.
@@crisdebug8675 Honestly at this point I have 0 trust in Riots metrics unless they make the raw data available.
The current king is a good king but what about his son or grandson? Will they be good kings? If they grow up to be a tyrant will we be able to do anything about it? Vanguard may be sugar, spice, and everything nice right now but will it always be that way and will we be able to do anything about it going wrong if its been normalized to the point that every game has it?
Its been said before but it should be repeated, if you trade away freedom for safety you will be left with neither.
What freedoms is Vanguard infringing upon?
@@BrontiThor privacy?
@@luk4s56 Don't use Windows then.
@@luk4s56 Like specifically, what aspects of your privacy is Vanguard infringing upon? Like before and after Vanguard what becomes less private on your computer?
@@BrontiThor do you ever zoom cal for work ? Talk to frends about inventions or innovatieve idee or big deal you have hurd happening sune ? Even wen its of you can get feedback on a 🎤 and al you need to get this info is a AI like vanguard to start recording wen surten key word are spoken the same as with ads wen you get a ad for something you just spoke about
And it can even go past that point more data points more options and you complaining to friends about health care problems can translate to 🕳️ in a social network that can be exploited and you can finde them the more data points you got
For instance a shortage in Sutton medical medication , aspirin,asma meds and with this information you can target a hole nation so jore tiny amount of info can be huge
"never trust a statistick you havent faked yourself" comes to mind...
I always see companies fake statistics to be in their favor. They usually tell half of the truth however just to make their lie more believable
Saw a video about kernel level anti-cheats and how those have been bypassed in other games, and looked it up for league, and yeahh, there are scripts out there that bypasses vanguard by also getting kernel level access, and they're not getting banned. So the amount of cheating is probably down a bit, but probably not down quite as much as they say/think
How is cheaters having not that much higher winrate overtime a good sign? It proves how shitty the matchmaking is towards tryhard players. Even with perfect movement and sometimes whole map position tracking you can still only maintain a higher winrate for so long before the matchmaking "corrects" you with the right teammates.
Yeah, in normal game I notice that my teammate are a lot shittier and shittier especially after I win like 7-8 game consecutive. Some game even went like all my teammate are below level 10. In rank is kinda opposite but skill and rank gap between my teammate and opponent is a lot higher every consecutive win.
It's that cheaters need to be very discreet in order to not get caught.
So they can't do as much crazy stuff
7:23 There is a misconception here. This is not the way riot detects bots. Bots are detected with Vanguard the same way cheaters are detected (moving patterns, background processes and drivers, etc.), but for this reason Vanguard makes no difference between a cheater and a bot. This database querry is basically obtaining the banned bots from all the Vanguard detections. The resolution and fps check is only made to differentiate banned bots from banned cheaters for statistic purposes, and not to actually detect bots in games.
Main reason I'm not a fan of Vanguard is simply that it means I can't play the game. Period.
Haven't played League since they forced the Vanguard install - because it doesn't work on Linux anymore. So until they have a Linux solution (that doesn't suck), I've just become a League Watcher rather than a player, unfortunately.
They can't.
Linux guarantees the user security (which is good imo)
But that means that the video game and its anti-cheat don't have control, giving hackers free access.
Until the anti-cheat revolution happens, Linux can't play most pvp games.
Lol you use linux
+125% smurfs on Valorant, trust me. I had 2 four man groups in my level 12 unrated match as a new player. They were all Gold to Diamon rankers. As for League, I'm one of those that quit after 14 years. Vanguard ain't the reason, it's the community, the smurfing and the bad seasons and matchmaking overall, which seems to persist in Valorant.
Smurfs are probably the worst thing right now
@@Kyizwa god got to love those smurfs man. lvl 4 gp trying to 1v1 darius, dying twice and quitting
@@luk4s56 It's one thing to have a guy that bought an account int and die all game and it's another to have one that's literally 1v9 every game on an almost perfect winrate. But we all know Riot's not like Valve and they literally won't touch them because they buy skins on their extra accounts too.
@@XirlioTLLXHR Riot only cares about whales and the hardcore competative scene
@@Hurricayne92 If you mean the eSports part then you are correct. That and selling skins are their top priorities, always.
I quit immediately when I realized Vanguard forces me to restart my pc to spy on me, never looked back.
Cool stats, cool graphs, still not spending a dime on league until it's gone. It's not just reinstalling windows that worries me, that's easy, it's redownloading everything that's not league. As games get bigger and bigger people will learn that nuking their steam library or their work related applications (some of which require hours upon hours of calibration) to spend time and money on league is just not worth it. Which will lower the player count and revenue, which will mean the cost of cosmetics will have to go up. I don't feel like redownloading and reconfiguring 2+TB of data to play 2-3 hours of ARAM.
Vanguard is the straw that broke the camels back and until its gone in place of a less pervasive system we won't be returning.
Vanguard literally came into my house broke my keyboard in two, and then proceeded to yell at me in chinese. How could you riot
ESEA, a former CSGO third party competitive provider, used it's AC for mining BTC.
Wat if you want a nation sosiol economic status group al the data points from there like Taiwan maby ?😮 and start scraping or recording in the background wen key word's are hit like ( he seery,he Google) and you can do it with alot of key words like income politics economy ppl got no idea about this rabbit hole its more like a black hole sins you doont no wat it's dowing and wen
Can't speak for anyone else, but I quit, haven't played league since Vanguard came out, have only played TFT on my iPad, I miss it, but I'm not risking bricking another PC, which is what happened when I installed Vanguard the first time when Valorant came out.
Riot: "We investigated ourselves and found nothing wrong. Here are some graphs sourced entirely from us. Trust us bro."
it’s true, CS is longing for something proper like vanguard, they’re really transforming the kernel level into a desired industry standard
Pure delusion
Lmao I hate it. Nearly every game tht comes out now has kernal level access 😂
They're literally taking our data and we don't care
@@Cherry-pu4mx we should call it what it is: malware. Vanguard bricks your pc and spies on you
@@Cherry-pu4mx So far it has yet to be proven they take any of our data no?
@@siniarskimar I mean apparently people keep playing even with kernel level anticheats or we would see it in player numbers.
aside from being a potential security vulnerability and using more cpu than the game and needing to restart all the time and occasional BSODs its pretty okay
I've been playing LOL for years. When Swarm came over to the live server, i kept getting VAN128 error. I spent 2 weeks with support trying a hundred different things til they were basically like "you need to reinstall windows". For a game? Nah, i'm good. Fix your shit first. Been playing games for 35 years or so, have NEVER heard of reinstalling windows for a game.
Reinstalling windows is pretty easy nowadays. You just go to settings> system> recovery> reset this pc. Tried it before with my w11 laptop. Works like a charm.
still doesn't justify the fact that vanguard broke your OS. it's supposed to be an anticheat, not malware designed to actively screw your system up.
@@jonelgoyal3406 It's not the difficulty I'm concerned with. I'm in IT, I do it every day. It's the amount of programs I have installed on my C drive that aren't easily replaceable. Lots of specialty tools and custom made programs.
@@bluegolisano7768it didn't break his OS, his broken OS broke vanguard
it causes so many problems to our computers that had they not been transparent with what its doing we would give up from the many issues, black screens, needing to restart, removing actual players from games etc.
I'd have two concernces about the hardware bans. If someone doesn't have enough money to buy a brand new PC part and second hands it, though low but chances are that it could be hardware banned by Riot and you end up not being able to play after putting the part in, how is that gonna be handled?
And what about staying somewhere else, like a family member or a friend and playing on their device like a gaming laptop or something. It would look like account sharing and even though I hope your friends wouldn't cheat, you never know what they have installed. What if Vanguard reads out some suspicous thing on your friends laptop and you getting the ban hammer for something you had no control over?
I'd think there has to be some sort of line that could distinguish something like this, because cases like this can happen while the person is actually innocent.
They can pretty easily read location data from where stuff is coming in, so I imagine they would lift the ban on a purchased item. If you are playing on a friend's PC, again, the system can detect location data, so if you are constantly bouncing between NY and CA, obviously that is probably account sharing given that no one really wants to be flying cross country the whole day much less in 15 minutes of you logging out and someone else logging in.
if you let other ppl use your device, you shouldnt let them get admin rights, which I suppose is required for high level cheats.
If a friend installs cheats on your device without telling you, investing a permabanned account to find out you have a bad friend should usually be worth it.
HWID should be done with the TPM chip which is soldered on your MoBo. So yeah, you have a low chance of buying a 2nd hand PC and get your account suspended for.
Both these cases should be explainable to Riot support and have a chance of getting your account back.
But it is usually worth for a company to false ban 1/10.000 cases or something like that to stop 9.999 hackers from playing. You can have bad luck but the chances are so very slim it is negligible
@@MisterAssasine I mean those were hypertheticals, of course. Just something that came to mind when watching if a scenario like this was thought about and how it would be handled.
It isn't much an issue if you let other people use your device if you don't cheat. The question was if you use a friend's device to play, not knowing what is on it. I've had a friend in school back when the old 3v3 was around, not the remake they did. He didn't cheat in League, but he did in Surf Servers in Counter Strike, mostly those without protection.
It was basically more aimed towards something in that sort, but without knowing the whole cheating thing. It would still be on his device and if you were to play on it, maybe something might trigger. I'm sure it could be figured out by getting in contact with Riot, but still, even though it's an unlikely story, it could be true. Chances are slim for it to happen, but stranger things have happened in the world that it's not entirely unlikely.
I doont think that wil ever be solved if you got no money its not worth it for riot 400€ ari skin 200€ garen skin
You think that riot give a shit about pore ppl wanting to play league na get a neuw laptop if you want to play at friends plaslce alor are you pore or something ( Blizzard: )
I don't really like Vanguard, I can't play games normals/rankeds, vanguard just crashes every time
At least now I'm not an addict anymore
14:30 no this is the rate of vanguard making a mistake and then riot fixing it, we don't know the actual rate of mistakes because we don't know how good riot is at fixing mistakes when they are made.
nooo, Necrit! Don't fall into the hole of believing Riot that Vanguard is doing good work!
??????
Counterpoint: It lead to multiple people having terrible technical problems. Riot may say that very few people reported issues, but in reality majority of people have not reported it since their support system is not very useful. Riot has multiple times throught it's history blamed the victim, by saying it's fault of users not having very specific PC, while the code for vanguard is poorly written.
Everyone knows that it's a kernel level anticheat just like many others. However there are multiple things that make it worse for your machine.
Instead of running only when game starts and simply blocking you from running the game when there is conflict from other drivers, it demands to run at the start and WILL CEASE ANY DRIVER IT DEAMS CONFLICTING. Meaning it can sabotage your graphics card, ventilators and many other systems that might be essential.
Not to mention that from TOS it seems like the only data Vanguard does not collect, would be your stool sample.
Yasukeh and Richard Lewis made good informative videos on this topic.
No, in reality the majority of people have not reported anything because there is nothing to report. You have to be a special kind of stupid if you honestly believe the majority of people have technical issues.
Huh? Where are you getting this data that "a majority of people have not reported it."
Yup, I have some problems with Vanguard but they are really not worth reporting because I'd rather just uninstall League again if they become too bothersome. I tried to convince another friend to play League again and it broke their PC until they uninstalled the game, but again, what's the point in reporting the issues? To be fair, I do have another friend who plays League without problems, but that should be the case for all three of us. (Edit because someone will say it's because we have potato PCs... I personally do, but it's still good enough to run other, more fun MOBAs, and my first friend has a new PC that he uses for streaming so most likely not a potato.)
I haven't seen any credible evidence of vanguard breaking any PC's tbh.
I could be wrong, but I just don't believe it.
My guess is that most people tried to do that TMP fix and couldn't follow directions, and claimed that vanguard broke their PC when.
When I installed Valorant with Vanguard years ago, it legitimately fucked up my PC *and* never actually allowed me to play the game no matter what I did. My PC became unable to be put to sleep, shut down, or update for almost 2 years - it could only be forcibly shut down by holding the power button (which sometimes didn't work) or pulling the plug. That's almost 2 years of it permanently being on because I had no choice other than power it down fully every day which causes its own mileage wear and tear. Uninstalling didn't fix anything, either. I had to spend hundreds of dollars on other programs to try to fix the issue it caused, and those didn't even work. Eventually it just fixed itself of most of the problems, but Jesus Christ. I can't afford a new PC, I was only able to get this $5k one with the inheritance from my dead great aunt. Does Riot want me to have another relative die just to ATTEMPT to build a PC that works with Vangaurd? Not that they care. They already have over $1k from the years of cosmetics I paid for, including the last $20 I spent when I tried coming back just conveniently (for them) before they announced bringing in Vangaurd.
Would be nice if they put in a replay system so we can at least anecdotally confirm this ourselves (Valorant). Riot is hardly going to put out stats telling us that Vanguard was an unmitigated disaster... Outside of their ridiculous pricing model, Riot is keeping me away as long as they keep the vanguard system as operable 24/7. It's not standardized to have an anti-cheat which is that invasive. *Shrug* It's just a game. Only my anti-virus gets to be that invasive, and anti-virus companies have much more scrutiny, regulation, and policy around what they are expected to do than a video game company.
Abundance of cluelessness in your comment.
Rito games have some of the worst UI/UX and QoL known to humans. LoL is at the peak of it. Anyone who played other games knows this. Rito's doing an abysmal job, they're just too big to fail (for now).
almost every game as a kernel level anti cheat
Actually you are more exposed using an anti-virus than vanguard, use the windows defender that comes default with Windows.
The more companies that have access to your computer the chances of one of those companies suffering a cyber attack or just a dumb update (crowdstrike) and compromising your computer is higher, and honestly is better to have a less preyed company like Riot having access to your PC than a highly preyed Kaspersky or Norton (one's that already sold clients data, suffer security breaches and compromised many computer)
Remember, Riot's business model is selling you skins, battle passes and emotes, that's were they earn money; antivirus earn their money with you, especially free ones, remember the way they work is literally taking your information to improve their system, they save your data and can sell it and already did, Riot does not need to save anything 'cause that's not where they earn money.
TLDR, don't use antivirus and if you really care about security don't use vanguard, but vanguard is better than antivirus.
@@HighLanderPonyYT nah not really. the ui in elden ring is shit and the game is still a banger. But i heard all the ubisoft games do have great ui, so you can play that
Vanguard was a success, it got me to uninstall league with its announcement. Very thankful for that
Despite the bad stories about Vanguard, after 2 months of not playing League because of Vanguard, I gave it a try. I instantly regretted it, as on the next startup my internet speed because so slow that I wasn't even able to watch streams, and of course it was only affecting the PC with Vanguard on. The internet worked flawlessly on all other devices.
I tried to fix the problem for days, even called my ISP if they know anything about it, nothing. I then uninstalled Vanguard for safety, reinstalled Windows, and my internet speed got fixed. Never risking installing that plague again.
Maybe it does its job at preventing cheaters, but it also does malicious things that aren't its job.
Like never have I ever had such internet issues where it's only with one PC and seemingly there's no solution, and it happens on the first startup after Vanguard gets installed? That seems like way too much of a coincidence for me.
Especially that with kernel level access, it's completely possible for Vanguard to disrupt and modify other drivers.
well, why did you ask your ISP on a problem related with software? That doesnt make sense.
And instead of connecting with Riot Support, why did you first did all of that procedure of reinstalling windows? Pretty sure they could have told you what software caused the issue.
Ah yes misinformation my favorite dish
@@Deathnom Given the fact that while installing Vanguard on my laptop nuked my internet connection for a few minutes and that it gave my PC the equivalent of a heart attack , Yeah , I'd give this guy the benefit of the doubt
@@POneSnake yum yum my favorite dish
@@Deathnom seems your fav dish is just stupid juice because you seem to have drank a ton of that
Cheater: Let's cheat!
*Picks Ezreal
Cheater: Why am I losing?
Can you or anyone actually even verify these numbers? The people who distrust Vanguard aren't going to magically change their mind because the company they distrust flung some numbers at them.
I for one am happy about Vanguard. It gave me that last push I needed to quit League.
Kernal so powerful. They still afraid to implement replay system to check him pc
player numbers published by riot show no change? mysterious
Not that weird. Most people don't care/have invested too much time on LoL to quit now. The number of players that left is pretty small.
Most people with logic can put two and two together that when every other game have kernel level anti cheat, leaving league because of it is stupid
@@frostfrost8907 i don't think every player that said he would quit actually did BUT if I recall correctly there was a dent in the end of season ranked games the split vanguard launched. This also doesn't have to be a direct result but is quite sus imo
@@lumenblade1975 Oh, yeah, it absolutely happened. But... Most people came back. A group of friends (like 4 of them) left because of it and tried to play Dota and such. They came back after 2 weeks. I know this is no more than just personal experience, but I don't think they are the only ones either. Dota did show a spike of players that died off pretty quickly.
Even if you are not worried about privacy I still think it's concerning having riots code is at that level. But Maybe everyone has forgotten about crowdstrike now.
Wait until you find out that companies lie about their data to try and influence public opinion.
Reality is they probably lost about 12-20% of real players since Vanguard, and I'm not talking only about quitters, but have you even seen the amount of people complaining about being banned and vanguard messing up their computer? And what about every single issue about not being able to uninstall League?
While I appreciate your content, I also think you should use your channel and voice the concerns of the player base around this topic, and not try to fake-boost Riot with their lies about numbers.
well said, i quit cuz of the vanguard
It's funny that I see this Video at the same day I read that Microsoft will disable all kernel level access xD
Aye, this is going to happen because of security issues.