When i first watched this episode i laughet my ass of when i saw this 😄 Also random Tank - is Tuvok into Warfare on Earth in the 20th and 21th century?
I've been too into Fate, clearly. When Chuck had Janeway state that "she's the Gilgamesh of f'ing with people" my brain immediately conjured up an image of Janeway in that golden armour, doing that cocky one hand on hip pose, while all around her Gates are opening up and coming out of them are screenshots of moments where she'd explicitly f'd with members of the crew.
Never understood why Tuvok didn’t read the laws and regulations for this planet and tell B’Elanna to stay on the ship due to her volatile nature. She could say that she needs to inspect the parts she’s buying. Tuvok would insist that she select a suitable member of her team to go in her place. She selects a member of her team who’s from the Marquis. This crew member is the one who has the violent thought. This would give B’Ellana a good scene where she’s outraged that her crew member was arrested, “they want to know what violent thoughts I’ll show them violent thoughts.” Tuvok would say that it would be illogical for herself to become incarcerated and it would not help the crew member in question. This would also give more weight Tuvoks statement at the end that he would go to any lengths to investigate the situation to the best of his ability for any member of the crew. This would also avoid making Tuvok look incompetent by failing to review the laws that the crew would be held to on the surface.
No. When a planet has laws against ANY kinds of thoughts, NO ONE sets foot on them. Thoughts are almost entirely impossible to control, and can come suddenly and unexpectedly at _any_ time. If a place has a thought police, you stay away. This is not even worth discussing (in-universe, I mean).
Random Thoughts always had the feel of a plot that you could see TOS pulling off better. Probably melodramatic in its execution but even the bog standard Original Series elements that would likely be in it (Spock pointing out the illogic in penalizing that which cannot be controlled, Kirk doing the inspirational speech about man/society's triumph is allowing violent thoughts to happen while still not acting on them), such an episode would do better justice than this one. Here its just the usual sanding down of an interesting story into the typical beige Voyager outing.
Voyager refused to let anyone be supremely confident in their ideals. Kirk and Picard, especially when aided by their crew of diverse individuals, could almost always arrive at the right answer to any problem. Star Trek lost its absurd hope somewhere, and it is kinda sad.
Your jokes are on point in this episode. Interestingly, Garrett and Robbie (Kim and Paris) are re-watching the entirety of Voyager and discussing their thoughts on each episode on the Delta Flyers podcast. It's interesting to hear their perspectives as former actors and - in Robbie's case - a current director. One thing they speculated was that the script writers seemed to change Neelix's personality because they wanted him to act closer to actor Ethan Phillips.
The only radical and unexplained change I have seen until now is in the character Kes. Too bad that she left! (Watching Voyager for the first time in my life!)
@@eeaotly Rick Berman was sexually harassing a lot of the women across DS9 and Voyager, and Kes' shift into the tight leotards was his mandate. It caused great stress on her mental health, which has had long-term consequences for Jennifier Lien to this day, so she ended up leaving the moment Garrett Wang was saved from the chopping block. Fuck. Rick. Berman.
Not to defend these people, but there really should be someone on the ship whose job is to read the local penal code before they send the crew down for shore leave. Your average 17-year-of backpacker does more planning than starfleet most of the time.
@@JosephDavies As much as I like taking mean shots on lawyers, I'm serious: It would be more useful for the story, to have a lawyer on the bridge than a therapist.
I remember this episode. I despised it. Even when i was 13 I though how ridiculous and unreasonable _everyone_ was being, and how easily solved the situation was. And how ridiculous it was that a space-faring advanced civilization of telepaths seemingly have no protocol for something that has to happen constantly! The first damn thing out of the mouth of whomever they contacted about shore leave should've been "Hey, violent thoughts are illegal here" Teeth-grindingly preposterous is what I'd call this episode. 4/10 is extremely kind IMO, I'd have given it a 2. >__>
Yeah it's kinda concerning that the enterprise episode where archers dog pees on sacred trees and he's upset they're mad somehow makes more sense as far as diplomatic relations with unknown races goes....
It's really amazing how their society is just like "Self-restraint? What's that? Now lets lobotomize you for daring to think something that totally caused our people to become homicidal and not that they are just idiots who need to take an anger management class."
_'The first damn thing out of the mouth of whomever they contacted about shore leave should've been "Hey, violent thoughts are illegal here"'_ Exactly this. This is why this society needs to have some violence inflicted on it. Wanna have crazy laws about what you're allowed to think? Okay fine, that's your problem isn't it. Not telling me about those laws before I set foot on your planet? Time to drop some nukes.
Thing is adding context makes archers better, context makes this one worse. In context of the aliens weren't consistently such massive jackasses that they make the Terran empire look like a good idea, the full criticisms or archer as commonly portrayed would make sense, but the full context makes them just massive tool. "hey we know you are bringing a lower life form down, we know this since you sent genetic profiles, which we didn't properly screen for illnesses because fuck you, go ahead come on down we are ready for you. By ready for you if course I mean we will let you wait 12 full hours in a room with our sacred trees and a lower life form and expect nothing bad to happen. "I'm sorry when I first watched sf debris review before seeing Enterprise I thought "man archer is rediculous" in full context between this and vox sola I fully stand with Archer. Only thing that actually ruins a night in sick bay is the tpol b plot.
9:29 I mean, come on Tommy Boy, Belanna doesn't even use her brain most of the time. Remember when she hit a guy to prove she was more mentally stable for the position of Chief Engineer?
There is one more question that i had: do these people often get visitors? Because then this violent thoughts-problem should come up more often. They should have signs that say: If you are an angry person, please go back to your ship or you might get brain-surgery ... Btw imagine Namira reading Janeways mind: "So much hate, she will kill us all!"
Well there is the possibility that the lack of violent thoughts does not remove aggression and so they are eager to jump out of the proverbial bush and scream 'Ha I got yah!' Because that is the only legal outlet
His hatred of Neelix mirror mine sure I didn’t mind him as a child when it was originally aired but later viewing of Voyager I’m more and more annoyed by him
The set and even the uniforms are recycles from the TNG episode High Ground. I suppose the seven years between these episode airdates allowed for a lot of recycling of actors and stage assets.
Something I realized also is that the plot really falls apart once you notice its kind of hard to follow laws you couldnt possibly have known about. Thats why most justice systems have a certain degree of leniency if you didnt know about some niche thing being forbidden. Until 4 years ago Germany had the brilliant law that cyclist at all times must at least carry with them head- and taillights for their bicycle, even during daytime. I dont know if they were expecting the sun to suddenly go out like a light bulb, but the law was so niche that almost noone knew about it, and so non-sensical that you cant expect people to make the assumption either.
With the way Chuck does his scheduling, it makes me wonder how long he wants to spread out what’s left of Voyager, if at some point he’ll get all of them out of the way, or if he’ll spread them as long as possible.
It's hard to say. Usually it seems he wants to drag it out, then there's now with 2 eps in one month, making me think he's cleaning house of an old project. At this point the only real question is what will be the final review for the series.
@@chrisw207 For the lolz, a good point to end it would be right before Prodigy would air, just for a joke that Chuck is free of Voyager, Janeway and the Delta Quadrant forever…only for Prodigy to be there with even more Janeway to come in the future.
@@lynngreen7978 12 episodes left, before Chuck is finally free from Voyager. Day of Honor, Hunters, Vis à Vis, Unforgettable, Night, Infinite Regress, Gravity, Riddles, Child's Play, Lineage, Repentance & Prophecy.
The prime directive has been much discussed in it's moral failings but not enough has been mentioned that it just tedious in that it prevents the crew form simply leaving when they are gulity of some petty non offense that there not told about in advance.
"Bread & Circuses" is on MeTV tonight and watching and this really shows how different Kirk handles alien worlds dictating his crew, even citing the Prime Directive in cases. Kirk knows it's senseless thus won't do whereas Janeway comes off like she doesn't care.
I am just watching that particular episode for the first time in my life. And there is one big question in my mind: Why on Earth don't the Mari just banish B'Lanna from their planet?! That lady from Security keeps saying that she doesn't want to hurt B. but she has to do that in order to eliminate bad thoughts from their society. Fine, then let B go, for Christ sake! If she is not on the planet with them she cannot affect them. And they don't need to purge her thoughts because they don't need to live with her every day. She is not a member of their society, so they don't have to bear with her and deal with her actions/thoughts. She is just a visitor who will leave and her influence will thus disappear. They are not being logical at all. Too much drama for nothing. The writers must have been under so much pressure to come with a new scenario that they have forgotten to think stright. Edit: Besides, I would have expected from a species of telepaths to have developed a sort of shielding or filter of some sort in their mind. I can't believe that they that fragile. By the way, where is that ex-criminal Betazoid now? In shore leave on the planet or on duty on the ship? He used to say that he has to constantly control his criminal urges. A conflict between him and the Mari would have been much more interesting! (A conflict inside the "family" sort to speak. Telepath vs telepath. But telepath vs. Half-Klingon? Nah! Poor choice! You'd have to purge all the Klingons!) Random thought (pun intended): I wouldn't put the Mari and the Klingons at the same table...
@@YourCapyFrenBigly_3DPipes1999 I can't. It's just too... fascinating! Anyway, since then I have seen several other episodes where Logic is thrown out trough the window. Like, for example, the one where Kim is being admonished for being intimately involved with some alien girl from a species they have just made contact with. I don't approve of characters sleeping around in the galaxy, but, sorry, this has been happening for QUITE some time! I mean Kirk has been kissing an alien girl in almost every single episode of TOS. And Riker has been kissing a bunch of other alien girls and sleeping with some of them. And also, when Jadzia Dax got involved with some guy from a freshly new discovered planet that was "shifting" from one plane to the other, AND she even wanted to stay there, on that planet, with that guy, her best friend and captain, Sinko, didn't recited her from the Federation code of conducts. It was quite obvious from the scenes that she was intimate with the alien guy and yet she didn't require any approval from dr. Bashir. But now, ensign Kim is roasted and fried and seasoned for doing practically the same thing like all the above mentioned HIGH RANK officers did! What?! "Quod licet Jovi non licet bovi"?! Or the alien germs don't dare to attach to collars having numerous pins?!
Now that you mention it, I can really feel the rewrites in this one. I always thought it was really bad, but not in such a way that I realized a lot of the problems probably arose from writers replacing potentially meaningful scenes with random crap.
This episode is yet another example of a plot that could have been avoided entirely if the writers would have performed even the most basic research into how real life militaries operate. All they'd have had to do in this case would be to ask around the production team for anyone who was a Navy vet, then ask them how shore leave worked. They'd have learned that its _standard operating procedure_ for command to be apprised of any peculiar local laws, then pass that information down to the crew. When I had shoreleave in Singapore, for example, I had to sit and watch a 30 minute power point presentation that covered local taboos, laws, and punishments.
What annoys me is this episode's pitch could have worked since it's focus is on contamination and not rehabilitation. This society should be in a psychic glass bottle that Voyager desperately either needing to cross their border or some necessary resource.
They should've been trying to sneak through their space incognito and been forced to visit a planet for fresh macguffins. Then they could've played the episode out the way they did and it would've made a little more sense.
When I saw this episode title in your schedule I just assumed you were going to spend some time listing off a bunch of various things that pop into your head whenever you watch this show 😅
14:41 Just one comment on the reference about Numera not understanding Klingons? The actress also played Bhetor in TNG/DS9/Generations Nicely placed and timed
Would make more sense that Blanca WANTS the procedure because it would purge her of thoughts she doesn’t like but Tom and crew remind her that her whole self is fine. And we end wondering if she went through with it.
This episode was a message about banning abortion. Captain Janeway: "Apparently, outlawing violent thought hasn't made it go away. All you've done is force people to share it in back alleys."
Russ is one of the few actors to play a Vulcan well so I tend to enjoy him even in the bad episodes. But, ugh this one was such a shitshow that I can't stand it.
And the little light running up and down the shaft of the brain fixer also is not helping. Plot hole: When they are dragging what’s her name to the mind fixer she is having all kinds of angry thoughts. Why aren’t they being affected?
Yeah, this episode only works if Janeway is a complete sociopathic sadist indulging in her fickle whims just to watch Tom squirm. THIS is the episode Tom should have said "f you this is wrong" and disobeyed orders by rescuing B'elanna from the telepathic morons who let these people roam around on their planet knowing full well how bad thoughts affect them, not some water planet that is doomed due to it's one collective stupidity.
I have so little recollection of this episode, that when I saw the thumbnail and title, my initial interpretation was that Chuck had for some reason decided to upload an 18 minute video just reeling off various ideas he'd had about Voyager as a series. Its like a Silence from Doctor Who must have been standing next to the TV when I watched this episode. Then again, that seems to describe about 80% of my memories Voyager episodes, but this one in particular is excessively unmemorable. At least with most other less-renowned episodes of _any_ of the shows, there will at least be a point where I'm like "Oh yeah, this one". Not Random Thoughts though.
Your one-liners are everything buddy please never stop or get bumped off by an over-enthusiastic fan unappreciative of your genius Acidic wisecracks are the only reason to live 😭💀
I mean if telepathic unpleasant thoughts are such a threat to this society why don't these telepaths evolve some kind of actual mental security system that they can control at will so that one guy's bad day doesn't destroy their whole society??
While a sensible solutuon, it's it also something that could create problems. You'd have very little goddwill in the galaxy if you came off avoiding pinishment by saying "just passing through, not worth the trouble" even of true. Granted this is why such shore leave would be preceded by long diplomatic lectures so as to prevent this problam.
If I were a ship's captain and I found out that violent thoughts were forbidden and could get my people mind r*ped? I would forbid shore leave, and explain to my crew exactly why, while also limiting all diplomatic contact to video calls. You can't always completely control your thoughts, and sometimes the most random things will take you back to a dark time in your life. Even worse is that this anti-violent thought law would hit abuse victims harder because abuse victims are often stuck remembering abuse or angry at what happened to them. This isn't a law system. This is a planet of hats to give the Voyager crew a moment of neener neener at the judge investigator, for how her system doesn't work. It doesn't represent any specific ban, but instead represents any totalitarian ban on something that is nigh impossible to control.
i know it's badly written but... as a frequently suicidal-thought ridden depressive... how the fuck would yhey "purge" chronic mental health? or are depressives like medieval lepers, walking around with bells znc living on the outskirts?
Does anyone on the planet undergo this procedure voluntarily? Why would I want to be thinking about hurting people, when I'm never going to do it? I meen, for B'Elanna, it's impractical because she might be in a situation where violence is one of the options that she has to consider, but sign me up! Unless nobody ever volunteers for this procedure because it isn't as precise as they make out. Making laws is politics. Politics is the art of the possible. This isn't possible. Precisely targeting the capacity for forming violent thoughts and removing that and only that.
So what I'm hearing is that if you were to take someone from present day earth in a bad mood about the state of things here, this society would burn itself to the ground from all the visitor's bad moods?
I hate it whenever they bring up Nellix' relationships it reminds me that he was sleeping with a two year old who was literally with him as a parental figure to gain wisdom and experience, Kess' whole race was a mistake and it's just another issue with voyager
I'm the last person -- THE LAST PERSON to be talking about systemic racism, but letting a Klingon onto your planet and then punishing them for having violent thoughts seems sorta racist.
Besides that, the first times we saw this happening were hundreds of years ago. Maybe at some point someone at starfleet command should have said "Ok, before you dock at any unknown planet, you have the civilization send you their code of laws and you have the ship's lawyer look them over to make sure you're not actually beaming down to an orwellian nightmare because that seems to happen a LOT"
Just the fact that they went down without knowing the laws is insane. If I were a ship's captain and I saw that violent thought was a problem, I would restrict all contact to unmanned shuttle drones and video calls from out of telepathy range. I know people who would find it nearly impossible to avoid that law due to being abused.
@@eeaotly pardon me while I points to the current leftist political pundits and to the United Kingdom where a woman got arrested for praying outside of abortion clinics. You have literally said something that ignores that there are thought crimes in the world right now. Also, the entirety of Star Trek has been random planets with weird bullshit rules that get the crew of the ship in trouble. You would think they would have a diplomatic team assigned to read and analyze all of these rules before they even get near the planet or communicate beyond asking for the laws, but no. We literally have worse than this in real life, and supposedly civilized countries, and here you are being completely oblivious to that.
LOL the daughters friend comment is exactly the kind of thing that these shows are too pssy to ever explore. How do telepaths deal with random sexual thoughts, do they require reprogramming as well? Sadly it just occurred to me that the pound me too era trek will probably address this stuff and it will be done to show how evil men are. Sigh, I'm so sick of living in this man hating a$$ world of entitled girl children.
Contradictory instructions and incorrect interpretation of those instructions are more common than people think, and Gene encountered those problems frequently in his career. How he dealt with them were admirable. Example: freedom of speech is a Bible teaching, invented by God himself. Original sin would be impossible without it. Problem; as Jews or Christians, once you know who invented the 1st amendment, you then must use it the same way God does, less you prove yourself a hypocrite. 2nd problem: as secularists, they cannot use freedom of speech, because it requires believing in God and that this was His invention. Failure to do so renders secularists hypocrites. This episode is actually quite interesting and thought provoking. People believe that a utopia will occur if people control their thoughts. However, this approach like our approach, is not realistic, because you can't control what you don't understand. Gene Roddenberry was not so idealistic that he denied where violent control came from, but neither were jews and Christians fully aware of it then or now. Sewers are dirty, but try living without them. Negative things are not something you live without, you separate them from the positive, the same way you clean objects you intend to use. And that is the lesson in this episode, that many fail to understand or mature past.
Failure to do so does not registers secularists as hypocrites. There are degrees of separation and the idea does not wholly come from your 6th century bc book.
Violent thoughts are outlawed,
one round in Mario Kart makes you a war criminal.
Just wait till they are introduced to Monopoly
Oooh, if Mario Kart can push you that far, then what would Mario Party do?
I know people who wouldn't last a day there, is not simply because they're angry people, but because they're dealing with the after effects of abuse.
Community chest, five minutes later the world burns.
@@bradwolf07 Diplomacy would be terrifying to introduce to them...
It could have been worse, Chuck...it could have been Neelix coming through the ceiling of your house.
a wonderful addition to the psycho Janeway compendium.
Fun fact: the horror scenes that Tuvok uses in order to mess up the 'dealer" are scenes from Event Horizon! :)
Funner fact: Some of those scenes are lost now, meaning the highest quality versions of them are in Voyager
Yup lol
When i first watched this episode i laughet my ass of when i saw this 😄
Also random Tank - is Tuvok into Warfare on Earth in the 20th and 21th century?
I've been too into Fate, clearly. When Chuck had Janeway state that "she's the Gilgamesh of f'ing with people" my brain immediately conjured up an image of Janeway in that golden armour, doing that cocky one hand on hip pose, while all around her Gates are opening up and coming out of them are screenshots of moments where she'd explicitly f'd with members of the crew.
Never understood why Tuvok didn’t read the laws and regulations for this planet and tell B’Elanna to stay on the ship due to her volatile nature. She could say that she needs to inspect the parts she’s buying. Tuvok would insist that she select a suitable member of her team to go in her place. She selects a member of her team who’s from the Marquis. This crew member is the one who has the violent thought. This would give B’Ellana a good scene where she’s outraged that her crew member was arrested, “they want to know what violent thoughts I’ll show them violent thoughts.” Tuvok would say that it would be illogical for herself to become incarcerated and it would not help the crew member in question. This would also give more weight Tuvoks statement at the end that he would go to any lengths to investigate the situation to the best of his ability for any member of the crew. This would also avoid making Tuvok look incompetent by failing to review the laws that the crew would be held to on the surface.
No.
When a planet has laws against ANY kinds of thoughts, NO ONE sets foot on them.
Thoughts are almost entirely impossible to control, and can come suddenly and unexpectedly at _any_ time.
If a place has a thought police, you stay away. This is not even worth discussing (in-universe, I mean).
@@theuncalledfor you can send the Doctor. Possibly Tuvok, though that's still a risk. Nobody else.
Random Thoughts always had the feel of a plot that you could see TOS pulling off better. Probably melodramatic in its execution but even the bog standard Original Series elements that would likely be in it (Spock pointing out the illogic in penalizing that which cannot be controlled, Kirk doing the inspirational speech about man/society's triumph is allowing violent thoughts to happen while still not acting on them), such an episode would do better justice than this one.
Here its just the usual sanding down of an interesting story into the typical beige Voyager outing.
Voyager refused to let anyone be supremely confident in their ideals.
Kirk and Picard, especially when aided by their crew of diverse individuals, could almost always arrive at the right answer to any problem.
Star Trek lost its absurd hope somewhere, and it is kinda sad.
Your jokes are on point in this episode.
Interestingly, Garrett and Robbie (Kim and Paris) are re-watching the entirety of Voyager and discussing their thoughts on each episode on the Delta Flyers podcast. It's interesting to hear their perspectives as former actors and - in Robbie's case - a current director.
One thing they speculated was that the script writers seemed to change Neelix's personality because they wanted him to act closer to actor Ethan Phillips.
Where is this happening?
The only radical and unexplained change I have seen until now is in the character Kes. Too bad that she left! (Watching Voyager for the first time in my life!)
@@eeaotly Rick Berman was sexually harassing a lot of the women across DS9 and Voyager, and Kes' shift into the tight leotards was his mandate. It caused great stress on her mental health, which has had long-term consequences for Jennifier Lien to this day, so she ended up leaving the moment Garrett Wang was saved from the chopping block.
Fuck. Rick. Berman.
Not to defend these people, but there really should be someone on the ship whose job is to read the local penal code before they send the crew down for shore leave. Your average 17-year-of backpacker does more planning than starfleet most of the time.
But then Wesley couldn't face the death penalty for tripping.
That's a good point: Where is the Starfleet lawyers?
@@GrandArchPriestOfTheAlgorithm Not Court Martialing Riker, La Forge, Worf, and Data for the loss of a starship.
@@GrandArchPriestOfTheAlgorithm Well, it is (supposedly) a Utopia... ;)
@@JosephDavies As much as I like taking mean shots on lawyers, I'm serious: It would be more useful for the story, to have a lawyer on the bridge than a therapist.
I remember this episode.
I despised it. Even when i was 13 I though how ridiculous and unreasonable _everyone_ was being, and how easily solved the situation was. And how ridiculous it was that a space-faring advanced civilization of telepaths seemingly have no protocol for something that has to happen constantly! The first damn thing out of the mouth of whomever they contacted about shore leave should've been "Hey, violent thoughts are illegal here"
Teeth-grindingly preposterous is what I'd call this episode. 4/10 is extremely kind IMO, I'd have given it a 2. >__>
Yeah it's kinda concerning that the enterprise episode where archers dog pees on sacred trees and he's upset they're mad somehow makes more sense as far as diplomatic relations with unknown races goes....
It's really amazing how their society is just like "Self-restraint? What's that? Now lets lobotomize you for daring to think something that totally caused our people to become homicidal and not that they are just idiots who need to take an anger management class."
_'The first damn thing out of the mouth of whomever they contacted about shore leave should've been "Hey, violent thoughts are illegal here"'_
Exactly this.
This is why this society needs to have some violence inflicted on it.
Wanna have crazy laws about what you're allowed to think? Okay fine, that's your problem isn't it.
Not telling me about those laws before I set foot on your planet? Time to drop some nukes.
Thing is adding context makes archers better, context makes this one worse. In context of the aliens weren't consistently such massive jackasses that they make the Terran empire look like a good idea, the full criticisms or archer as commonly portrayed would make sense, but the full context makes them just massive tool. "hey we know you are bringing a lower life form down, we know this since you sent genetic profiles, which we didn't properly screen for illnesses because fuck you, go ahead come on down we are ready for you. By ready for you if course I mean we will let you wait 12 full hours in a room with our sacred trees and a lower life form and expect nothing bad to happen. "I'm sorry when I first watched sf debris review before seeing Enterprise I thought "man archer is rediculous" in full context between this and vox sola I fully stand with Archer. Only thing that actually ruins a night in sick bay is the tpol b plot.
9:29
I mean, come on Tommy Boy, Belanna doesn't even use her brain most of the time. Remember when she hit a guy to prove she was more mentally stable for the position of Chief Engineer?
The Federation also has a method of removing violent thoughts from Klingons, with the same result. It involves a level 8 setting on a phaser.
Or enough alcohol to kill twelve humans.
«Oh Shit! Its that bad huh?»
My thought exactly. Cutos to the actress, she gave me chills with her delivery.
You were more than fair with this episode
There is one more question that i had: do these people often get visitors? Because then this violent thoughts-problem should come up more often. They should have signs that say: If you are an angry person, please go back to your ship or you might get brain-surgery ...
Btw imagine Namira reading Janeways mind: "So much hate, she will kill us all!"
Well there is the possibility that the lack of violent thoughts does not remove aggression and so they are eager to jump out of the proverbial bush and scream 'Ha I got yah!' Because that is the only legal outlet
I never get tired of you mocking Neelix.
His hatred of Neelix mirror mine sure I didn’t mind him as a child when it was originally aired but later viewing of Voyager I’m more and more annoyed by him
One bit of continuity that would have been cool to use is if Tuvok used Sutor's memories to overpower the dark thought dealer.
They completely forgot about Sutor.
Damn that would have been dark and would mean Tucok had never stopped thinking about killing Sutor.
"Telepathy doesn't mean you have empathy." We've been knew that Chuck, we've seen Lwaxana Troi.
😂 to be totally fair she can be kind with children or in private lol
But yeah... Not in Standard Mode
The thing that's always stuck with me is that the actress playing Numira is B'etor from TNG, one of the Duras sisters.
The set and even the uniforms are recycles from the TNG episode High Ground. I suppose the seven years between these episode airdates allowed for a lot of recycling of actors and stage assets.
Oh lol I didn't catch that without all her prosthetics. Lol good catch. She did seem somewhat familiar.
Cleavage.
Also Chuck's inside joke about Numira not knowing the first thing about being a Klingon.
Something I realized also is that the plot really falls apart once you notice its kind of hard to follow laws you couldnt possibly have known about. Thats why most justice systems have a certain degree of leniency if you didnt know about some niche thing being forbidden. Until 4 years ago Germany had the brilliant law that cyclist at all times must at least carry with them head- and taillights for their bicycle, even during daytime. I dont know if they were expecting the sun to suddenly go out like a light bulb, but the law was so niche that almost noone knew about it, and so non-sensical that you cant expect people to make the assumption either.
With the way Chuck does his scheduling, it makes me wonder how long he wants to spread out what’s left of Voyager, if at some point he’ll get all of them out of the way, or if he’ll spread them as long as possible.
It's hard to say. Usually it seems he wants to drag it out, then there's now with 2 eps in one month, making me think he's cleaning house of an old project. At this point the only real question is what will be the final review for the series.
@@chrisw207 For the lolz, a good point to end it would be right before Prodigy would air, just for a joke that Chuck is free of Voyager, Janeway and the Delta Quadrant forever…only for Prodigy to be there with even more Janeway to come in the future.
If I'm counting correctly, we have what, about 18 left?
@@lynngreen7978 12 episodes left, before Chuck is finally free from Voyager.
Day of Honor, Hunters, Vis à Vis, Unforgettable, Night, Infinite Regress, Gravity, Riddles, Child's Play, Lineage, Repentance & Prophecy.
Voyager complete!
"I'm like the Gilgamesh of f*cking with people."
The prime directive has been much discussed in it's moral failings but not enough has been mentioned that it just tedious in that it prevents the crew form simply leaving when they are gulity of some petty non offense that there not told about in advance.
"Bread & Circuses" is on MeTV tonight and watching and this really shows how different Kirk handles alien worlds dictating his crew, even citing the Prime Directive in cases. Kirk knows it's senseless thus won't do whereas Janeway comes off like she doesn't care.
Man your humor had me rolling dude! Well done!
I am just watching that particular episode for the first time in my life. And there is one big question in my mind: Why on Earth don't the Mari just banish B'Lanna from their planet?!
That lady from Security keeps saying that she doesn't want to hurt B. but she has to do that in order to eliminate bad thoughts from their society. Fine, then let B go, for Christ sake! If she is not on the planet with them she cannot affect them. And they don't need to purge her thoughts because they don't need to live with her every day. She is not a member of their society, so they don't have to bear with her and deal with her actions/thoughts. She is just a visitor who will leave and her influence will thus disappear. They are not being logical at all. Too much drama for nothing.
The writers must have been under so much pressure to come with a new scenario that they have forgotten to think stright.
Edit: Besides, I would have expected from a species of telepaths to have developed a sort of shielding or filter of some sort in their mind. I can't believe that they that fragile.
By the way, where is that ex-criminal Betazoid now? In shore leave on the planet or on duty on the ship? He used to say that he has to constantly control his criminal urges. A conflict between him and the Mari would have been much more interesting! (A conflict inside the "family" sort to speak. Telepath vs telepath. But telepath vs. Half-Klingon? Nah! Poor choice! You'd have to purge all the Klingons!)
Random thought (pun intended): I wouldn't put the Mari and the Klingons at the same table...
Shhhhhhhh!!!! Stop with that logic dammit
@@YourCapyFrenBigly_3DPipes1999 I can't. It's just too... fascinating!
Anyway, since then I have seen several other episodes where Logic is thrown out trough the window. Like, for example, the one where Kim is being admonished for being intimately involved with some alien girl from a species they have just made contact with. I don't approve of characters sleeping around in the galaxy, but, sorry, this has been happening for QUITE some time!
I mean Kirk has been kissing an alien girl in almost every single episode of TOS. And Riker has been kissing a bunch of other alien girls and sleeping with some of them. And also, when Jadzia Dax got involved with some guy from a freshly new discovered planet that was "shifting" from one plane to the other, AND she even wanted to stay there, on that planet, with that guy, her best friend and captain, Sinko, didn't recited her from the Federation code of conducts. It was quite obvious from the scenes that she was intimate with the alien guy and yet she didn't require any approval from dr. Bashir.
But now, ensign Kim is roasted and fried and seasoned for doing practically the same thing like all the above mentioned HIGH RANK officers did! What?!
"Quod licet Jovi non licet bovi"?! Or the alien germs don't dare to attach to collars having numerous pins?!
@@eeaotly "logic thrown out the window" is the catchphrase that 98% of Voyager is based on 😭
Now that you mention it, I can really feel the rewrites in this one. I always thought it was really bad, but not in such a way that I realized a lot of the problems probably arose from writers replacing potentially meaningful scenes with random crap.
This episode is yet another example of a plot that could have been avoided entirely if the writers would have performed even the most basic research into how real life militaries operate. All they'd have had to do in this case would be to ask around the production team for anyone who was a Navy vet, then ask them how shore leave worked. They'd have learned that its _standard operating procedure_ for command to be apprised of any peculiar local laws, then pass that information down to the crew. When I had shoreleave in Singapore, for example, I had to sit and watch a 30 minute power point presentation that covered local taboos, laws, and punishments.
15:00 "Prepare the mind-fornicator!"
What annoys me is this episode's pitch could have worked since it's focus is on contamination and not rehabilitation. This society should be in a psychic glass bottle that Voyager desperately either needing to cross their border or some necessary resource.
They should've been trying to sneak through their space incognito and been forced to visit a planet for fresh macguffins. Then they could've played the episode out the way they did and it would've made a little more sense.
When I saw this episode title in your schedule I just assumed you were going to spend some time listing off a bunch of various things that pop into your head whenever you watch this show 😅
I'd forgotten about this episode so that is exactly what I thought as well.
Me three, and I saw the review of this before.
I wonder if they remembered that back in TOS, Starfleet had the technology to record thoughts.
No, probably not.
Even TOS seemed to forget they had that technology.
Would have helped Picard against the likes of Norah Satie's witchhunt from TNG "Drumhead".
I am going to say they might outlawed it
Janeway is sounding a lot like the Mighty Monarch in this one.
14:41
Just one comment on the reference about Numera not understanding Klingons? The actress also played Bhetor in TNG/DS9/Generations
Nicely placed and timed
"If you make this illegal people will only want it more" could be applied to anything illegal including murder.
Exactly. That was not a logical line.
Would make more sense that Blanca WANTS the procedure because it would purge her of thoughts she doesn’t like but Tom and crew remind her that her whole self is fine.
And we end wondering if she went through with it.
"... ample warning to reach for their mace" / " ... speaking of PAINFUL things, she's sent to go collect Neelix" :D:D:D:D
This episode was a message about banning abortion. Captain Janeway: "Apparently, outlawing violent thought hasn't made it go away. All you've done is force people to share it in back alleys."
Russ is one of the few actors to play a Vulcan well so I tend to enjoy him even in the bad episodes. But, ugh this one was such a shitshow that I can't stand it.
Watching this on July 1st, 2021. Nice intuition on that Bill Cosby thing. Good luck with those tickets!
And the little light running up and down the shaft of the brain fixer also is not helping. Plot hole: When they are dragging what’s her name to the mind fixer she is having all kinds of angry thoughts. Why aren’t they being affected?
Sounds like a high tech version of Canada.
Yeah, this episode only works if Janeway is a complete sociopathic sadist indulging in her fickle whims just to watch Tom squirm. THIS is the episode Tom should have said "f you this is wrong" and disobeyed orders by rescuing B'elanna from the telepathic morons who let these people roam around on their planet knowing full well how bad thoughts affect them, not some water planet that is doomed due to it's one collective stupidity.
I have so little recollection of this episode, that when I saw the thumbnail and title, my initial interpretation was that Chuck had for some reason decided to upload an 18 minute video just reeling off various ideas he'd had about Voyager as a series. Its like a Silence from Doctor Who must have been standing next to the TV when I watched this episode. Then again, that seems to describe about 80% of my memories Voyager episodes, but this one in particular is excessively unmemorable. At least with most other less-renowned episodes of _any_ of the shows, there will at least be a point where I'm like "Oh yeah, this one". Not Random Thoughts though.
Is there any mention of any downside to this procedure to remove violent thoughts?
Neelix for the woodchipper!!
If violent thoughts are illegal then what are they going to do about it if you refuse the treatment?
Your one-liners are everything buddy please never stop or get bumped off by an over-enthusiastic fan unappreciative of your genius
Acidic wisecracks are the only reason to live 😭💀
I mean if telepathic unpleasant thoughts are such a threat to this society why don't these telepaths evolve some kind of actual mental security system that they can control at will so that one guy's bad day doesn't destroy their whole society??
While a sensible solutuon, it's it also something that could create problems. You'd have very little goddwill in the galaxy if you came off avoiding pinishment by saying "just passing through, not worth the trouble" even of true. Granted this is why such shore leave would be preceded by long diplomatic lectures so as to prevent this problam.
If I were a ship's captain and I found out that violent thoughts were forbidden and could get my people mind r*ped?
I would forbid shore leave, and explain to my crew exactly why, while also limiting all diplomatic contact to video calls.
You can't always completely control your thoughts, and sometimes the most random things will take you back to a dark time in your life.
Even worse is that this anti-violent thought law would hit abuse victims harder because abuse victims are often stuck remembering abuse or angry at what happened to them.
This isn't a law system.
This is a planet of hats to give the Voyager crew a moment of neener neener at the judge investigator, for how her system doesn't work.
It doesn't represent any specific ban, but instead represents any totalitarian ban on something that is nigh impossible to control.
This goes back to Chuck's point that, despite the claims of 'rehabilitation' it's really about punishment.
@@hariman7727
I limit all diplomatic contact to dropping nukes on those monsters.
Did Neelix really give Voyageur Fleas?
That sounds awesome! Which episode was it?
The Voyager Conspiracy
Yeah the plot was so silly. Totally falls apart given the obvious fact that all Torres has to do is, you know.... Leave.
If The Crime Was Your Mind, You Must Do The Time 🧐
i know it's badly written but... as a frequently suicidal-thought ridden depressive... how the fuck would yhey "purge" chronic mental health? or are depressives like medieval lepers, walking around with bells znc living on the outskirts?
I'm gay and I pilot a Type 6 Shuttlecraft.
Does anyone on the planet undergo this procedure voluntarily? Why would I want to be thinking about hurting people, when I'm never going to do it?
I meen, for B'Elanna, it's impractical because she might be in a situation where violence is one of the options that she has to consider, but sign me up!
Unless nobody ever volunteers for this procedure because it isn't as precise as they make out.
Making laws is politics. Politics is the art of the possible. This isn't possible. Precisely targeting the capacity for forming violent thoughts and removing that and only that.
So what I'm hearing is that if you were to take someone from present day earth in a bad mood about the state of things here, this society would burn itself to the ground from all the visitor's bad moods?
A psychic death virus! I like it! They should deploy this against those abominations.
According to the authorities on that planet, lol.
Ahem. Chimney of surprise? Explique s'il vous plait ;)
Imagine Neelix/Tom in a hot tub stream. And Harry is live streaming it. In person.
God why.
I hate it whenever they bring up Nellix' relationships it reminds me that he was sleeping with a two year old who was literally with him as a parental figure to gain wisdom and experience, Kess' whole race was a mistake and it's just another issue with voyager
If I were Tom I would ask if they could add some remove the sassyness from her , can't have my woman be morr masculine that me. its the law
I'm the last person -- THE LAST PERSON to be talking about systemic racism, but letting a Klingon onto your planet and then punishing them for having violent thoughts seems sorta racist.
Besides that, the first times we saw this happening were hundreds of years ago. Maybe at some point someone at starfleet command should have said "Ok, before you dock at any unknown planet, you have the civilization send you their code of laws and you have the ship's lawyer look them over to make sure you're not actually beaming down to an orwellian nightmare because that seems to happen a LOT"
Half-Klingon, had a full Klingon gone down there, it would be like The Red Hour from Return of the Archons.
Just the fact that they went down without knowing the laws is insane.
If I were a ship's captain and I saw that violent thought was a problem, I would restrict all contact to unmanned shuttle drones and video calls from out of telepathy range.
I know people who would find it nearly impossible to avoid that law due to being abused.
@@hariman7727 No sane person would even dream that there are some idiots somewhere who put much more emphasis on the thoughts than on the actions.
@@eeaotly pardon me while I points to the current leftist political pundits and to the United Kingdom where a woman got arrested for praying outside of abortion clinics.
You have literally said something that ignores that there are thought crimes in the world right now.
Also, the entirety of Star Trek has been random planets with weird bullshit rules that get the crew of the ship in trouble.
You would think they would have a diplomatic team assigned to read and analyze all of these rules before they even get near the planet or communicate beyond asking for the laws, but no.
We literally have worse than this in real life, and supposedly civilized countries, and here you are being completely oblivious to that.
LOL the daughters friend comment is exactly the kind of thing that these shows are too pssy to ever explore. How do telepaths deal with random sexual thoughts, do they require reprogramming as well? Sadly it just occurred to me that the pound me too era trek will probably address this stuff and it will be done to show how evil men are. Sigh, I'm so sick of living in this man hating a$$ world of entitled girl children.
you are the jesus of star trek reviewers onyl that your punishment takes way, way longer until its over
Contradictory instructions and incorrect interpretation of those instructions are more common than people think, and Gene encountered those problems frequently in his career. How he dealt with them were admirable.
Example: freedom of speech is a Bible teaching, invented by God himself. Original sin would be impossible without it. Problem; as Jews or Christians, once you know who invented the 1st amendment, you then must use it the same way God does, less you prove yourself a hypocrite. 2nd problem: as secularists, they cannot use freedom of speech, because it requires believing in God and that this was His invention. Failure to do so renders secularists hypocrites.
This episode is actually quite interesting and thought provoking. People believe that a utopia will occur if people control their thoughts. However, this approach like our approach, is not realistic, because you can't control what you don't understand.
Gene Roddenberry was not so idealistic that he denied where violent control came from, but neither were jews and Christians fully aware of it then or now.
Sewers are dirty, but try living without them. Negative things are not something you live without, you separate them from the positive, the same way you clean objects you intend to use. And that is the lesson in this episode, that many fail to understand or mature past.
Failure to do so does not registers secularists as hypocrites. There are degrees of separation and the idea does not wholly come from your 6th century bc book.
@@Eshanas there's also a body count continuing to mount.
@@Eshanas wait, did you just recommend people not read books or advocate eliminating certain books?