The appearance of Da Vinci on this show amuses me considerably after having played the Assassin's Creed games. Now I'm just imagining Ezio is off-screen waiting for him to finish with Janeway so he can get a gear upgrade.
Tuvok saying "Scandinavia" is great piece of subtle writing. It's a great joke for those that get it while also betraying the fact Tuvok doesn't understand how earth's population would be far more segregated by color in DaVinci's time simply as a result of the lack of large-scale transportation technology. Tuvok's experience on Earth would be a far more integrated world given transporter technology.
There's an interesting concept; the difference between a sentient hologram and a simulation. Simply running a hologram program isn't enough to make it sentient; it needs to cross some poorly understood line into sentience. We've seen that the events that made the Doctor fully sentient almost destroyed him. And now here we see another hologram being pushed to its limits...and failing to cross over. It is perhaps little more then a small amount of unintentional worldbuilding; but seeing that hologram sentience is challenging to achieve, and not possible for every hologram, is fascinating to think about.
Yeah if the simulation is copying brain sentient processes 100% then how is it not life, then also why does it need to be 100%. Mentally impaired people are still sentient, there is also non-organic life in Star Trek. The line where sentinet life begins is for no one to really judge so I think if you are the super moral Federation you need to treat even the slightest of advanced programs as sentient. That band of rogue holograms was basically right. Thinking about it more how they let Moriarty run in the background of the computer and even at a faster time rate it kinda seems like torture. A being that is somewhat sentinet and can never die.
As explained in "Elementary, Dear Data", Moriarty was endowed with sentience (technically, sapience) by the computer. Normally, holodeck characters perceive the holographic world based on the parameters of the program. Since Geordi asked for an emeny capable of defeating _Data,_ not Holmes, the character needed to be someone who understood what he was, and to understand the world outside the holodeck. Moving to _Star Trek: Voyager,_ Dr. Chaotica, for example, would only know Tom Paris as Captain Proton, not as Tom Paris. Unless Chaotica were given sapience, he wouldn't know life outside the holodeck. This can be seen in "Spirit Folk". The computer caused the characters to perceive things they shouldn't have, like Tom repairing his car. They still perceived them within the parameters of the program ("faerie magic"), but it was up to the Voyager crew to explain what those things were. Now, there's a thought. If the computer can make a sapient holodeck character (Moriarty or Vic Fontaine), the computer has to know what sapience is. Since the computer can also identify itself (as seen in this episode), and can refuse orders unless overridden, does that mean the ship's computer is sapient?
It's not Galileo that DaVinci would have complained about; he lived many decades (a century) later. It would have been that "piccolo bastardo" Michaelangelo who was usurping his contracts (often because Leonardo was not getting things done by the contractual deadlines!)
@@BelieveIt1051 "Michaelangelo" was the turtle. "Michelangelo" was the painter. Until 2003 when they changed the spelling of the turtles name to match the painter's.
Yes, but we know Janeway tends to screw around with holograms to satisfy her needs (hello Sullivans deleted wife from "Fair Haven"). I guess she doesn't like procrastination and changed Leonardo a little bit ...
Nitpicking, but Rhys is pronounced Reese, like Kyle Reese, or John Reese from Person of Interest, not Rice (I'm Scottish, I'm pedantic like that). Shame he isn't in more episodes. Haven't seen this episode, but his interaction with Mulgrew in Scorpion was a highlight in an excellent episode of Voyager. And Chuck mentions raiders, but not a lost arc? Too obvious a joke?
Given that bringing a historical figure into the present and showing them how things have changed is my favorite thought experiment, I really like this episode.
Ah, well, you know, he didn't REALLY die 45 years before Galileo was born. He faked his death and went on to the next in his 6,000-year-long string of assumed identities.
Why is it most of the time the holodeck is used for boring things like this. Other than Paris' Captian Proton stuff they never use it to have fun safe adventures, like a D&D campaign or playing the lead role in an action movie. 11:40
In my headcanon Voyager did destroy the raider ship with all their stuff and so they limped around for several years until Seven rebuild everything on her own (ok, probably with help from Tom, the only other competent person on board).
Da Vinci ''I'm Sorry Katherina I am far too busy. I'm doing multiple projects for my good friend Ezio, I'm planning this elaborate code, to frankly fool some future adventurer or the like. and then I'm having problems with completing my Rayna construct, I imagine it should be finished by the 23rd century...''
6:56 And it's not even Leonardo. It's a imagined version of Leonardo. 8:16 It'ss arguable that the Doctor and Leonard are basically the same character. Which to be fair is arguably the only reason the Doctor being autonomous is so controversial. If the character's file is by definition a form of life it means that artificial programming can't be taken for granted, at least by the rules of the federation. At least the conflict here is demonstrated to the audience through a series of episodes, and not played off constantly for plot convenience.
The last episode of Voyager I watched. No, not first run. It's the one I missed over the years and only caught for the first time a few years back. How can holo-DiVinci drink?
So in the 24th century they can create sentient holograms that can interact with solid matter, but mobile emitters are an impossibility? Is Star Trek ever consistent with their technology?
I don't see anything inconsistent. The 24th century can do all that, but they need a bunch of equipment. The holoemitters seem to be about room-sized, and then there's the computer the hologram has to run on and the memory and all that stuff. The mobile emitter seems to be a significant miniaturization of the technology, with some very convenient UI features, like being able to attach to any existing projection and interface with the computer to download the program associated with it and take over. I actually wonder how much of an angle it has, being able to project a full body while being attached to said body. I also doubt the tech doesn't exist before the 29th century. This one particular emitter is from then. Plus it was reverse engineered by someone in the 20th century, and may be able to do even more than it currently does.
For those fans of the Lord of the Rings trilogy, we finally see John Rhys-Davies (who played Gimli the dwarf) at his full height - he is taller than Orlando Bloom. That is why on close up shots of the fellowship he was usually kneeling. And on the wide shots, where they are running across a field, they used his actually short body double!
She's having too much fun torturing him. I mean, she destroys his career with that reprimand and 7 years as an ensign. We never see him in LD, Picard, or Prodigy because he's stuck on working on a Federation garbage scow, since no one else would have him. Eating him would have been compassionate by comparison.
While I love Jonathan Rhys Davies work, I always thought he was utterly wasted on Voyager. He is just so entertaining, but the scripts always wasted him.
Your word sabout freedom to fail are the reason why SpaceX is so successful. The leadership understands that failure is a necessary step in perfecting a new concept until it works.
Too bad it's not true. SpaceX fails because Musk is a charlatan who upon any serious examination doesn't even seem to actually be interested in accomplishing the tasks he seeks investor money for.
No, no, no. Leonardo LEADS, it's donatello that does machines.
That’s a fact, Jack
And Michelangelo is a cool party dude
Don’t forget that Raphael is cool but rude
@@hauntedghost95 gimme a break
You win!
The appearance of Da Vinci on this show amuses me considerably after having played the Assassin's Creed games. Now I'm just imagining Ezio is off-screen waiting for him to finish with Janeway so he can get a gear upgrade.
Having an Assassin on this planet? That could have been interesting ...
I thought Indiana Jones was waiting offscreen.
Tuvok saying "Scandinavia" is great piece of subtle writing. It's a great joke for those that get it while also betraying the fact Tuvok doesn't understand how earth's population would be far more segregated by color in DaVinci's time simply as a result of the lack of large-scale transportation technology. Tuvok's experience on Earth would be a far more integrated world given transporter technology.
Well, yeah. There were no Vulcans at all in Scandinavia back then.
@@Lemon_Inspector ...that we know of.
@@Lemon_Inspector we don’t talk about those guys anymore so they don’t count
Damn, your humor just gets better & better. Excellent Video, as usual.
3:40 I like how Tuvok’s outfit looks like a preorder bonus alternate skin of his regular uniform
Or he payed 20 space bucks just for the worst costume-DLC ...
There's an interesting concept; the difference between a sentient hologram and a simulation.
Simply running a hologram program isn't enough to make it sentient; it needs to cross some poorly understood line into sentience.
We've seen that the events that made the Doctor fully sentient almost destroyed him. And now here we see another hologram being pushed to its limits...and failing to cross over.
It is perhaps little more then a small amount of unintentional worldbuilding; but seeing that hologram sentience is challenging to achieve, and not possible for every hologram, is fascinating to think about.
Yeah if the simulation is copying brain sentient processes 100% then how is it not life, then also why does it need to be 100%. Mentally impaired people are still sentient, there is also non-organic life in Star Trek. The line where sentinet life begins is for no one to really judge so I think if you are the super moral Federation you need to treat even the slightest of advanced programs as sentient. That band of rogue holograms was basically right.
Thinking about it more how they let Moriarty run in the background of the computer and even at a faster time rate it kinda seems like torture. A being that is somewhat sentinet and can never die.
As explained in "Elementary, Dear Data", Moriarty was endowed with sentience (technically, sapience) by the computer. Normally, holodeck characters perceive the holographic world based on the parameters of the program. Since Geordi asked for an emeny capable of defeating _Data,_ not Holmes, the character needed to be someone who understood what he was, and to understand the world outside the holodeck. Moving to _Star Trek: Voyager,_ Dr. Chaotica, for example, would only know Tom Paris as Captain Proton, not as Tom Paris. Unless Chaotica were given sapience, he wouldn't know life outside the holodeck. This can be seen in "Spirit Folk". The computer caused the characters to perceive things they shouldn't have, like Tom repairing his car. They still perceived them within the parameters of the program ("faerie magic"), but it was up to the Voyager crew to explain what those things were.
Now, there's a thought. If the computer can make a sapient holodeck character (Moriarty or Vic Fontaine), the computer has to know what sapience is. Since the computer can also identify itself (as seen in this episode), and can refuse orders unless overridden, does that mean the ship's computer is sapient?
It's not Galileo that DaVinci would have complained about; he lived many decades (a century) later. It would have been that "piccolo bastardo" Michaelangelo who was usurping his contracts (often because Leonardo was not getting things done by the contractual deadlines!)
And here I thought Michelangelo was the party dude.
@@BelieveIt1051 "Michaelangelo" was the turtle. "Michelangelo" was the painter. Until 2003 when they changed the spelling of the turtles name to match the painter's.
Um, Janeway? Leonardo left most of his works unfinished.
Yes, but we know Janeway tends to screw around with holograms to satisfy her needs (hello Sullivans deleted wife from "Fair Haven"). I guess she doesn't like procrastination and changed Leonardo a little bit ...
Nitpicking, but Rhys is pronounced Reese, like Kyle Reese, or John Reese from Person of Interest, not Rice (I'm Scottish, I'm pedantic like that). Shame he isn't in more episodes. Haven't seen this episode, but his interaction with Mulgrew in Scorpion was a highlight in an excellent episode of Voyager.
And Chuck mentions raiders, but not a lost arc? Too obvious a joke?
I'm Welsh. Imagine how I felt about "Davys".
Given that bringing a historical figure into the present and showing them how things have changed is my favorite thought experiment, I really like this episode.
Ah, well, you know, he didn't REALLY die 45 years before Galileo was born. He faked his death and went on to the next in his 6,000-year-long string of assumed identities.
Janeway actually mentions this, but doesn't believe the guy Kirk met was actually Leonardo.
7:49 thank you! 😎
The outfit Tuvok wears on the planet is the same one Mirror Tuvok wore in DS9.
Well, they had to save money on props somehow. This episode had some detailed new sets.
I put the Galileo / Da Vinci date discrepancy down to a floating-point error in Voyager's computer. Head cannon!
No, this is a historical fact: Someone just traveled back in time and Da Vinci was born many years later ... Happens all the time on Trek.
Your cat has wounded me in a way I never though possible for an animal so unrelated to myself and on a different face of the planet.
Since the planet is an oblate spheroid, isn't there only one face of the Earth?
@@MKDumas1981 no the world is definitely twofaced.
Rhys is pronounced "Reese". Other than that, I chuckled at the Shawshank Redemption joke.
Why is it most of the time the holodeck is used for boring things like this. Other than Paris' Captian Proton stuff they never use it to have fun safe adventures, like a D&D campaign or playing the lead role in an action movie. 11:40
In my headcanon Voyager did destroy the raider ship with all their stuff and so they limped around for several years until Seven rebuild everything on her own (ok, probably with help from Tom, the only other competent person on board).
Bad trigger discipline Janeway
Da Vinci ''I'm Sorry Katherina I am far too busy. I'm doing multiple projects for my good friend Ezio, I'm planning this elaborate code, to frankly fool some future adventurer or the like. and then I'm having problems with completing my Rayna construct, I imagine it should be finished by the 23rd century...''
6:56 And it's not even Leonardo. It's a imagined version of Leonardo.
8:16 It'ss arguable that the Doctor and Leonard are basically the same character.
Which to be fair is arguably the only reason the Doctor being autonomous is so controversial.
If the character's file is by definition a form of life it means that artificial programming can't be taken for granted, at least by the rules of the federation.
At least the conflict here is demonstrated to the audience through a series of episodes, and not played off constantly for plot convenience.
Is ‘the prince’ a reference to machiavelli?
Does no one else know the Galileo ABBA song?
The last episode of Voyager I watched. No, not first run. It's the one I missed over the years and only caught for the first time a few years back.
How can holo-DiVinci drink?
See the episode "Phage" for that answer.
So in the 24th century they can create sentient holograms that can interact with solid matter, but mobile emitters are an impossibility?
Is Star Trek ever consistent with their technology?
Maybe not to the small scale it is there, but *surely* they could have made *something* that would work even if it's the size of a basketball
I don't see anything inconsistent. The 24th century can do all that, but they need a bunch of equipment. The holoemitters seem to be about room-sized, and then there's the computer the hologram has to run on and the memory and all that stuff.
The mobile emitter seems to be a significant miniaturization of the technology, with some very convenient UI features, like being able to attach to any existing projection and interface with the computer to download the program associated with it and take over.
I actually wonder how much of an angle it has, being able to project a full body while being attached to said body.
I also doubt the tech doesn't exist before the 29th century. This one particular emitter is from then. Plus it was reverse engineered by someone in the 20th century, and may be able to do even more than it currently does.
@@ZipplyZane Also, thinking about it, they could just build him an android shell to operate. Would be cheaper/easier.
For those fans of the Lord of the Rings trilogy, we finally see John Rhys-Davies (who played Gimli the dwarf) at his full height - he is taller than Orlando Bloom. That is why on close up shots of the fellowship he was usually kneeling. And on the wide shots, where they are running across a field, they used his actually short body double!
They could shoot him with the Hobbits, though. Since Dwarves are slightly bigger than Hobbits, Rhys-Davies greater height worked.
Eat Harry. NOW.
"Not while he's of use to me."
She's having too much fun torturing him. I mean, she destroys his career with that reprimand and 7 years as an ensign. We never see him in LD, Picard, or Prodigy because he's stuck on working on a Federation garbage scow, since no one else would have him. Eating him would have been compassionate by comparison.
This episode was dopey, but fun-ish. I was never a big fan of the Holodeck fantasies or the village in the holodeck.
Da Vinci is so much better than the terrible Janeway Lambda one.
what a weird sliders episode. Quinn's not even in it.
While I love Jonathan Rhys Davies work, I always thought he was utterly wasted on Voyager. He is just so entertaining, but the scripts always wasted him.
Your word sabout freedom to fail are the reason why SpaceX is so successful. The leadership understands that failure is a necessary step in perfecting a new concept until it works.
A rare quality in a corporation. They usually seem to think something has to work immediately or it was a waste of money.
Too bad it's not true. SpaceX fails because Musk is a charlatan who upon any serious examination doesn't even seem to actually be interested in accomplishing the tasks he seeks investor money for.