My problem with Eloquence Bard is i made the mistake of playing with an obnoxious high schooler that didn't want to roleplay. He just made snotty demands to the NPCs and the DM was just like "roll persuasion I guess". Ugh, I'm getting a migraine just remembering.
Honestly, I think the profane soul is an interesting concept with such a failed execution. I feel like wifh some adjustments it could actually be interesting, like even out the spells you get or the combat eldritch boons or something? Itd like i know what its goint for it just fails to reach it.
The problem with the sun soul monk is simple, you play the class to level 6 and all you get is 1 first level spell split which you could’ve gotten with a level 1 dip into cleric, then you go all the way to level 11 for less impressive shatter, it’s a twice as big but at this level a full caster could’ve upcasted the spell to 6th level and dealt 3 times as much damage and that full caster likely have better save DC so they’ll more likely deal more damage as well. And it’s last feature is a once per turn 5+wisdom modifier damage added to a melee attack when all your other features are ranged, at 17th level, which is severely terrible and only outclasses rangers 20th level feature and that’s not much.
4:22 The fact that Monk has darts in its starting equipment and Monk weapons are "simple *Melee* weapons..." Will always crack me up. Recently they fixed it with a couple features but high level monks would have to deflect missiles their own dart to use it as a Monk weapon is funny as hell.
Yeah the problem with the eloquence bard is people just don’t try to go against it the see a plus 17 on persuasion and see it as “oop well I guess I have to give him everything for free” but it’s stopped by basic reasoning or even the guards of the castle/fortress/jail not speaking the same language sure it’s not a hard fix but it’s not a be all end all for all problems Bard
I would fix sun soul by doing something like what warlocks get with mystic arcanum by making monastic arts for the monk n have it function the same way as the mystic arcanum for the base class and then have the monk be a versatile n customizable build where the subclasses build in utility from the Monastic arts
Yes, persuasion shouldnt convince the guard to let you into the heavily fortified area But it *might* convince them to bring their captain to you to sp he can see whats going on But a guard would definitely be "thats above my pay grade"
My problem with Eloquence Bards isn’t that they “auto win” Persuasion and Deception rolls, but that they can never critically fail on Persuasion and Deception rolls. Sure, it doesn’t make sense for the royal guard who’s loyal to the king and working to support his family to leave his post just because some rando Bard talked real good, but it also doesn’t make sense for the Bard to get arrested by said guard when they rolled a 17 on Persuasion. And the Eloquence Bard will always do that at the bare minimum at level 3. The subclass may not be “no risk, all reward” but it’s certainly “no risk.”
Well that is just giving persuasion too much power. If the guy realistically wouldn't leave his post, then persuasion shouldn't be addressed, because he specifically can't be persuaded.
Currently playing an Inquisitive Rogue. I'm not sure if the features are that powerful - like comparing how an Inquisitive gets sneak attack versus a swashbuckler; it takes up your bonus action - but thematically its very fun.
PLAYING DEVILS ADVOCATE. The eloquence bard is a stage hog character if played by the wrong player. In the same way, the Fey Wanderer, or a Swashbuckler Rogue, or an Edgy Enough Hexadin is a stage hog. If you give a player a hammer, they try to make everything a nail. It's the same problem that crit Successes or Fails presents. Situation: party just rolls for shit without you asking for the check, rolls a "crit" (even though in 5th Edition you can't crit on ability checks), and think they succeed, inspite of you not having asked for the check in the first place. A character with a really high persuasion will just "I roll to persuade bumblefuck blashitsen to give me his money." Roll, get a really high roll because that's what the build is designed for, and expect you to give them what they want. I've had this happen at my table, and have had to kick a player for getting angry for this exact behavior when it doesn't go their way; I never asked for a check, and they lose their mind when it doesn't go their way. It's not a problem of the class but the player. However, the class gives them the hammer, and the clear screws are looking a lot like nails. Do I hate eloquence bards? No. It's one of my favorite archetypes, similar to the aforementioned Swashbuckler Rogue and Fey Wanderer Ranger. I encourage my players to find alternative options to engage with the environment. But, there's the few that create the stereotype, which gets perpetuated of the Good ol' Horny bard, and it results in people not wanting to see Bard in general, let alone the bard that never fails a Persuasion check.
are you gonna do videos for and rank EVERY subclass on dnd beyond? specifically noncore subclasses. i know you've been covering blood hunters, but i also hope to see others like gunslinger, blood wizard, scofflaw fighter, community cleric, etc
I admit that I don’t like to play Bards - their style of magic just doesn’t jive with the fantasy character I want to play; that said, I totally see why you put the Eloquence Bard where you did. It’s a powerful subclass, no doubt. Thanks for your work! I’ve learned a lot.
i think you're underrating Trickery Cleric. you're right, the class features do kinda suck. but you gotta remember that spells are features too, and i dare you to name a single expanded spell list in this game better than the Trickery Cleric. having all the usual cleric hits like guiding bolt, command, spiritual weapon, spirit guardians. and then add all these extra amazing spells gives you one of the best rounded casters in the game.
combine two rather weak subclasses into a very strong character. Take 3 lvls into undying warlock, pact of the tome and aspect of the moon. Now you don't sleep. Pick up alchemist. Use warlock slots for elixiers. Shortrest. Do this 8 times if your party longrests. Healing out your a**
Not impossible but impractical. Rest requirements and sleep requirements are separate things. Now you no longer need to sleep. However, you still need to long rest every day or you will pick up exhaustion. In this context, a long rest means you have to not use your features for eight consecutive hours.
I just wish swarm keeper was a druid? I know it'd be overlap with the Circle of the Shepherd. I don't want to be a ranger lol. Have you already done Echo Knight? That's a fun one :) It's UA/quasi homebrew, but Barbarian of the Depths is pretty interesting!!
½ damage if resistant *or* "takes half" ¼ damage if both resistant *and* takes half Also something like the Goliath's reaction can reduce damage As far as damage reduction goes that's it
My problem with Eloquence Bard is i made the mistake of playing with an obnoxious high schooler that didn't want to roleplay. He just made snotty demands to the NPCs and the DM was just like "roll persuasion I guess". Ugh, I'm getting a migraine just remembering.
Honestly, I think the profane soul is an interesting concept with such a failed execution. I feel like wifh some adjustments it could actually be interesting, like even out the spells you get or the combat eldritch boons or something? Itd like i know what its goint for it just fails to reach it.
The problem with the sun soul monk is simple, you play the class to level 6 and all you get is 1 first level spell split which you could’ve gotten with a level 1 dip into cleric, then you go all the way to level 11 for less impressive shatter, it’s a twice as big but at this level a full caster could’ve upcasted the spell to 6th level and dealt 3 times as much damage and that full caster likely have better save DC so they’ll more likely deal more damage as well. And it’s last feature is a once per turn 5+wisdom modifier damage added to a melee attack when all your other features are ranged, at 17th level, which is severely terrible and only outclasses rangers 20th level feature and that’s not much.
4:22
The fact that Monk has darts in its starting equipment and Monk weapons are "simple *Melee* weapons..."
Will always crack me up.
Recently they fixed it with a couple features but high level monks would have to deflect missiles their own dart to use it as a Monk weapon is funny as hell.
Psi Warrior BETTER be in this round, OR ELSE....... nothing really, i have no real or else, but it still better be there dammit.
Yeah the problem with the eloquence bard is people just don’t try to go against it the see a plus 17 on persuasion and see it as “oop well I guess I have to give him everything for free” but it’s stopped by basic reasoning or even the guards of the castle/fortress/jail not speaking the same language sure it’s not a hard fix but it’s not a be all end all for all problems Bard
I would fix sun soul by doing something like what warlocks get with mystic arcanum by making monastic arts for the monk n have it function the same way as the mystic arcanum for the base class and then have the monk be a versatile n customizable build where the subclasses build in utility from the Monastic arts
Yes, persuasion shouldnt convince the guard to let you into the heavily fortified area
But it *might* convince them to bring their captain to you to sp he can see whats going on
But a guard would definitely be "thats above my pay grade"
Hypnotic pattern, hideous laughter, Raulothim's psychic lance all incapacitate and are available to the great old one
My problem with Eloquence Bards isn’t that they “auto win” Persuasion and Deception rolls, but that they can never critically fail on Persuasion and Deception rolls. Sure, it doesn’t make sense for the royal guard who’s loyal to the king and working to support his family to leave his post just because some rando Bard talked real good, but it also doesn’t make sense for the Bard to get arrested by said guard when they rolled a 17 on Persuasion. And the Eloquence Bard will always do that at the bare minimum at level 3. The subclass may not be “no risk, all reward” but it’s certainly “no risk.”
Well that is just giving persuasion too much power. If the guy realistically wouldn't leave his post, then persuasion shouldn't be addressed, because he specifically can't be persuaded.
I feel you. I love the bard and eloquence bard is a fun one when I played it
Wow let the final event of the e5 subclasses! Begins!
Awake grants an Intelligence of 10 and knowledge of 1 language.
Currently playing an Inquisitive Rogue. I'm not sure if the features are that powerful - like comparing how an Inquisitive gets sneak attack versus a swashbuckler; it takes up your bonus action - but thematically its very fun.
PLAYING DEVILS ADVOCATE.
The eloquence bard is a stage hog character if played by the wrong player. In the same way, the Fey Wanderer, or a Swashbuckler Rogue, or an Edgy Enough Hexadin is a stage hog. If you give a player a hammer, they try to make everything a nail. It's the same problem that crit Successes or Fails presents. Situation: party just rolls for shit without you asking for the check, rolls a "crit" (even though in 5th Edition you can't crit on ability checks), and think they succeed, inspite of you not having asked for the check in the first place. A character with a really high persuasion will just "I roll to persuade bumblefuck blashitsen to give me his money." Roll, get a really high roll because that's what the build is designed for, and expect you to give them what they want. I've had this happen at my table, and have had to kick a player for getting angry for this exact behavior when it doesn't go their way; I never asked for a check, and they lose their mind when it doesn't go their way. It's not a problem of the class but the player. However, the class gives them the hammer, and the clear screws are looking a lot like nails.
Do I hate eloquence bards? No. It's one of my favorite archetypes, similar to the aforementioned Swashbuckler Rogue and Fey Wanderer Ranger. I encourage my players to find alternative options to engage with the environment. But, there's the few that create the stereotype, which gets perpetuated of the Good ol' Horny bard, and it results in people not wanting to see Bard in general, let alone the bard that never fails a Persuasion check.
are you gonna do videos for and rank EVERY subclass on dnd beyond? specifically noncore subclasses. i know you've been covering blood hunters, but i also hope to see others like gunslinger, blood wizard, scofflaw fighter, community cleric, etc
The ultimate party combo: Life Cleric and Zealot Barbarian
Especially if they get married for the ac bonus
With the wild fire spirit I had a thought you could make it do damage to people other then yourself if you teleport them just a thought
I admit that I don’t like to play Bards - their style of magic just doesn’t jive with the fantasy character I want to play; that said, I totally see why you put the Eloquence Bard where you did. It’s a powerful subclass, no doubt. Thanks for your work! I’ve learned a lot.
I love Bards as well
i think you're underrating Trickery Cleric. you're right, the class features do kinda suck. but you gotta remember that spells are features too, and i dare you to name a single expanded spell list in this game better than the Trickery Cleric. having all the usual cleric hits like guiding bolt, command, spiritual weapon, spirit guardians. and then add all these extra amazing spells gives you one of the best rounded casters in the game.
Yes, rune knight is my favorite!!
I wonder where Oath of Dragonkind would go on this list?
Assassin Rogue when?
They did talk about the changes coming in the 2024 PHB. So that could even be included.
I need a Maverick artificer rank
Let’s GOOOOOOO!,
combine two rather weak subclasses into a very strong character. Take 3 lvls into undying warlock, pact of the tome and aspect of the moon. Now you don't sleep. Pick up alchemist. Use warlock slots for elixiers. Shortrest. Do this 8 times if your party longrests. Healing out your a**
Not impossible but impractical. Rest requirements and sleep requirements are separate things. Now you no longer need to sleep. However, you still need to long rest every day or you will pick up exhaustion. In this context, a long rest means you have to not use your features for eight consecutive hours.
I just wish swarm keeper was a druid? I know it'd be overlap with the Circle of the Shepherd. I don't want to be a ranger lol.
Have you already done Echo Knight? That's a fun one :)
It's UA/quasi homebrew, but Barbarian of the Depths is pretty interesting!!
Depths is from Runeterra, right?
@@bradwillis7415 Yep! It was like a single pager they released. Fun for a brawly pirate campaign.
Request can you play Nujabes on every recap????
Day four of asking for circle of the stars Druid
NO MORE SQWAICHING
Waiting for the Psi Warrior 😡😡😡😡😡😡
But resistances from different sources do stack? Don't they? Officially?
Nope.
@@LupineShadowOmega Fascinating. I also rule that they do.
½ damage if resistant *or* "takes half"
¼ damage if both resistant *and* takes half
Also something like the Goliath's reaction can reduce damage
As far as damage reduction goes that's it
Like 100
Almost first