Hi! Thanks for the acknowledgment! You’re speaking a lot of truth. The hybrid you speak of really isn’t a hybrid. Provided you keep your weight heavy on the lead foot and your shoulders closed through impact, wherever you start your arms, provided they are relaxed, will likely produce quality shots Cheers!
@@jeffmartinez262 I'm not selling any thing mate . Just trying to help golfers struggling with the game . You have a better idea . Post it . In order for me to be a charlatan I have to be actively decieving people . Where is the deception ?
@@worldseasiestgolfswing7109 Great presentation I have never thought of adding the Moe Norman part to Jim's swing. I have been using Jim's mechanics for a little over a year now. Adding that extension just takes another variable out like you said. Will give it a go the next time I hit balls. As far as the comment above yours don't sweat it man see it on Jim's videos all the time. It's like people just love to bash something different. Golf should be fun and a person should swing the club in any manner that makes it fun. I wish I could swing and play like the pro's I can't time all that up and when I have tried in the past it would put me on the brink of walking away. Thanks to people like Jim and yourself thinking outside the box I enjoy the game and can at least more times than not keep the ball in play.
Your 'combo swing' method is very helpful. It's a swing technique that allows us to execute the takeaway without overthinking. I support this method as i have watched a lot of Jim's videos...
I think you are on to something that will help many injured golfers and non injured golfers. I taught golf for 30 yrs. as a club pro and I took lessons from many pros to learn their system. Natural Golf (Moe's swing) certified, Jimmy Ballard, John Redman, Joe Davidson and Mike O'Leary Simple Swing, Peter Croaker Teach the teacher. I played Jim Venetos swing until I was injured in the lead leg and then I learned the Channel Lock Swing which you put about 55 to 60% on your trail leg and this was a great swing for me. Then I had a severe injury on my trail leg so after not playing for 9 months I've tried the Jimmy Ballard swing for less rotation and Dr. O'Leary's swing from Ireland that I customize that gives more power in any swing but I am still having a sore back. I have tried your swing hitting in a net and I have good power and no pain. But I will give it a go when the weather gets better. Thank you for your videos and congratulations on your invention.
It looks good! Your thoughts are mine after having learned Jim's swing. At the moment I have some arthritis in my left shoulder which is cooling my golf practice, but I'm definitely going to add the Mo Norman aspect as you have shown. Thanks for the video. I am a big Jim V. fan!! and am now 75 and impatient for the weather to turn warmer so I can get outside again.
brilliant ! i’ve been a student of both todd graves and jim venetos. gave up on todd’s (moe norman ) swing and did JVGA swing only. i had big problem with hitting too many hooks. i did exactly what you said. stood much further back from ball like the one plain swing and then did JVGA swing. perfection! much more predictable ball flight and now i can hit my target much more consistently! thank you ! i’m went to range today and now im pumped to take it to the course ! you’re the Man!
One suggestion for the hooks.. at least for me....make sure the left hand is dominant on the backswing and downswing.. The right hand is just along for the ride and obviously most important is the stillness, make sure the shoulders dont open during the downswing.. I'm right hand dominant and find it difficult to pull with the left hand but as I practice it more, it makes the biggest difference in the result and gives me the "tight draws" Jim talks about. I also notice I'm pulling correctly by my finish. Both arms are stretched out away from my body, kinda like a pro if you will, when I do it right. Just thought I'd share since I had the same issue.. Good luck to you....
@@CallMeJackWagonI struggle with block shots to the right with the JV swing. It’s not a fade or slice. It goes straight but to the right. Everyone tells me that it’s because of my closed stance which I know it isn’t because if you swing properly it should go straight or slightly draw. Amy suggestions?
@@nickygee010 Would say you are not staying still during the downswing. Your shoulders are not staying closed and therefore you have lost your stable compass point, the left shoulder. What happens then is the clubface is never pulled back to a straight arc or slightly inside out. So it comes toward the ball from the inside and continues going outward and the result is a straight push. To get a baby draw the club comes in shallow but is pulled back on line at the last split second by centripetal force applied to the centifical force of the inside approach. You can never do this if your shoulders are past impact position but you haven't reached impact with the ball. It all happens automatically if the shoulders stay still.
@@richardmakula4307 Thank you for the input. I’m sure you’re correct about my right shoulder coming over. One of the biggest issues I’ve had with JV is ignoring the arms. I just cannot grasp that concept. When I ignore them they drop to the ground 6 inches behind the ball. When I focus on them too much the right shoulder comes across. Successful ball strikers keep the left arm straight and the right elbow close to the body. I’ve been working on that even though he doesn’t want me to with some success. It has to be a thought first before it becomes a habit and something that can be ignored.
you are SO correct. 👍 I to have ben struggeling finding the raskest swing to perform and still have good lenght and accurate landing of the ball. With JV i have had my absolute best results, But only from time to time. And i foundvthe , for me thenproblem was the close to Bodø position of the shagt/hands - making room for errors.. When i started with ledd arm streched out, like Moe or Kirk Junge, and in additiondrew the trial foot a bit back with the JV pivot - problem was solved ! Long, stright or baby draw shot EVERYTHING time - on the course my buddies mengenet every time : 'he just walks up to the te, drop the ball, look out on the fairway, set up and hit the ball stright/baby draw time atter time...' No stress neither in my head nor in my back - just having fun.. I am sure !! this realt is the easiest swing for anybody !! Cheers 🇳🇴
I have tried this Mo Norman /Jim Venetos combo swing and it works very good for me. I also single length irons and my accuracy is off the charts. My golf buddies have noticed the change and are now trying to this swing. I like Jim’s teaching style and Todd Graves teaching style. Keep up the great videos!
great minds think alike! I have been using Cobra single length, and a mix of Kirk Junge (Kirk has arms out at setup, like Moe and Bryson) and Jim Venetos. Both focus on setting up for impact and simplifying the swing. But I am still a long way from off the charts accuracy. I close my stance only about five degrees. Doing it 45 degrees I have to hook the ball to get close to the target. I guess I am doing something wrong. But the weight forward and focussing on stillness has really helped, combined with setting up with arms out...arms down makes no sense to me.
Hey John, this is similar to what I am doing in the last year and I’m really glad for the confirmation. I am older and a right leg below the knee amputee. The main difference I see is that I drop my right foot and leg back about as much but keep my foot 90* to the target line where you flare your foot about 45*, which I will be trying. I drop the right back because I have no mobility in my ankle and therefore balance issues. The rest is pretty similar. I am hitting my driver about 240 total yds on a good one and I am 81. The big news is overall ball striking though! Thanks for sharing.
Great video, those are the two guys that I think are the most on track. I used to swing out of my shoes but as I got older the more it hurt. Moe is gone but Todd Graves is keeping that swing alive and Jim's swing looks to good to be true but it really works if you can keep still and keep your weight on your front foot you are practically guaranteed good contact.
I've raced mountain bikes, offroad trucks, dirt bikes, full contact football, etc. Of all the BS I've done, golf seems like one of the hardest sports to be able to do over the years. The impact from stuffing a full iron swing is absolute hell on the wrists and hands and elbows. The swing alone builds muscles on one side leading to hip, thigh, back, and neck issues which radiate all through the body. I think young golfers should focus on sustainability and what 40+ years of wracking your wrists can do to a body. I'm not just complaining, I mean it with the intent to spread awareness as the guy who made this video is talking about.
Hi Loved the logic, Ive watched lots of both Mo and Jim clips. Ive swung similar to this for a few years Lately Ive started opening the face on the backswing (with a strong grip) and snapping the clubface shut on impact with the hands. My swinthought is stay quiet with fast hands. On the downswing swing out from the target line uncock the wrists early come into the ball smooth low and flat. I feel Ive got lots of power and control doing this. Keep posting
i follow Kirk Junge (single plane). With your swing i do this to draw the ball but it plays havoc with my lumbar spine. All those palm tree's remind me of the Sunny Coast. Please do some videos out on the course say 3 or 4 holes, Different lies, approach shots etc etc.
You are so right. Quit trying to make the perfect looking swing and do whatever it takes to get the ball in the hole in the least possible strokes. Short game, short game, short game!!
Pretty interesting idea. Been trying all the conventional drills for some time. Recently tried hitting the ball Moe Norman style after watching Bryson and Trump play online together. I hit the ball as solid as I ever had into a net the other day. Not on a range or course yet. Then I been watching Jim Veneto's videos today. Realized years ago I played with a very closed stance like him and used to crush the ball, which I forgot about after years of not playing. Taking lesson with someone who teaches the conventional way. My contact is bad but my swing is looking closer to what is conventional. Drilling with the bowler drill this month, which what reminded me of how I used to swing with a close stance. Seems this drill is pretty popular and some pros even used it on tour somewhat. I'm going to continue with my conventional lesson because I feel close. Knowing if I can get that swing down and also incorporate what you're showing here and Jim's swing which are both something I've kinda used with success already, then have all these down proper should only help. Jim knows how to swing all different ways as did Moe. As long as you learn them properly then it's like hitting different shots on the course as if you were going to hit a stinger into the wind or a hook around a tree etc.
Like a few other of the comments I have recently become a fan of both Moe and Jim and when i came across your video immediately knew it would help with a more consistent repeatable swing ( for a 79 year old anyway).
Found your video last week and have taken it to the range. Also 79 years old with one fusion and balance issues. Once I got the swing figured out liked the results! Much easier on my back... and very consistent results. Need a few more sessions at the range to feel confident over the ball... but this swing feels right for me!
Very interesting, especially since I was already tempted by Moe Norman's technique and Jim Venetos'. Anything that can reduce the variables is welcome. You should make new videos to give details, on how to avoid mistakes with this technique. For example, I have the unfortunate defect of shifting to the right (sway) during the back swing, and of tilting towards the toes, etc. Do you still use this technique with satisfaction?
I'm glad to see this. I've used the Moe swing for almost 20 years. I have occasionally tried the Venetos swing in combo with the Moe arms, just as you are doing. I found it great with irons but I struggled with longer clubs. Where my Moe swing is the opposite. Very good with long clubs, but not as good as I'd like with irons. The JV swing is great for getting your weight forward without trying. And it brings the arms through effortlessly because the weight movement just pulls them through. I did find it hard on my lead knee, though. Lately I've been pre-setting my weight a little more on the front side with my Moe swing, but without the full JV setup. After 20 years I'm still fine tuning, haha. I average 81 or so, and get in the upper 70s every 4 or 5 rounds.
Thank you for this. At this point all I’m trying to find is something repeatable and remotely consistent. Yeah I’ve hit 300 yard drives but it’s once in a blue moon. Any more I’m lucky to find 2 fairways a round. I’d rather be 230 and safe.
Note how there has been no follow up… It’s basically click bait with a virus. The virus being that if you try this you will in fact ruin your golf and require a full system reboot. 😂
Great find for you, you have figured out what works for you, A swing that gives you consistency, congrats on solving your golf swing puzzle. Greta Job and thanks for sharing!
Thanks heaps for this video, it's excellent. I've been doing the Jim Venetos course for about 8 months and never hit the ball so well. The only time I stuff up is my distance from the ball so might try incorporating the Moe Norman bit you mention. I'm 64 and since Jim's course I've gone from 26 to 13. Totally agree that now I get no back pain as well. Thanks again Brendon
I been struggling with my direction. About two weeks ago I started to align my body also the way you do. It help. I didn't know about this video until now. I told my wife this weekend I am not going to the golf course but to the driving range to practice it with all my clubs. I will also now try to open my right leg more. You are 100% right to say that everyone should know what works for him and stick to it.
I am so glad to see someone who came up with a swing similar to mine... I created my "hybrid" swing from Moe Norman as well, and a fellow by the name of Kirk Junge who teaches a set up for impact swing .... it is a really consistent swing, and at 62 years old, when conditions are just right, I can still pound out a drive close to 300 yards every now and again, much to the dismay of my friends of similar age! The only problem I have with my hybrid swing is the tendency to pull the ball , sometimes missing my target line by as much as 40 yards on drives. I have worked and worked on trying to rectify this, and sometimes I do for a couple of rounds, but then the pulls suddenly come back. If anyone has any hints I would love to hear them.... I guess I shouldn't complain, I have this past year gotten my handicap down to a 9.5 with this swing!
I get the pulls to, sometimes I wonder if it’s from to much tilt or the inherently strong trail hand grip. I like to think my Jumbo Max grips lessen the rolling of hands
I just wanted to stop by and say thank you for enlightening me to this swing. It’s great for me and I haven’t struck the ball this consistently ever. It’s so simple but so effective. It truly is a game changer. I’m 31 and am so glad to have found this now. I’m now out here trying to be or look like a PGA pro, so I don’t miss me the unorthodox set up one bit. Feels great on the back as well! Give it a shot all!
New golfer here. This is my first year. Hogan’s swing is great but I have bad timing with my hips. I also miss the ball sometimes. Looking forward to trying this at the range. What kind of grip are you using when holing the iron?
John-- I find this VERY interesting.. I would like to know if your ball flight is straight, draw, power fade etc.. Also, if you would share, where do you have ball position for all clubs? Will keep watching and check it out for myself.. I also think the best compliment you can get from another golfer is, "Good Swing".. So, "Good Swing".. Keep the videos coming please.. Thanks// Raangeman
I like it a lot! question....how do u takeaway the club? with your hands or do u maybe open your body or do u start from your left side? I would like to know!
From your pre set stance ,I simply just fold my right elbow . Unfold in the down swing . Its that easy . Check out my other video . I then just let the club pull the body around . I just think . Keep still as possible , Fold , unfold .
@Worlds Easiest Golf Swing thx for your reply I will definitely try that sounds simple enough so even for someone with the takeaway jipps like me should be easy to do 😁
Hey ! That looks great to me. I will try working on this swing this winter ( now ) and hope I have a good feel for it come spring. I have been struggling with consistent ball contact for nearly 50 years , I am 68 now and need a swing like this ! THANKS
I understand both concepts and use Jims' setup and swing, which creates a shallow descending blow. As I watch the video, you can notice you are still coming over the top, due to your right shoulder not staying inside, and close to the body. Check out your video swing in slow-mo.
Hi there from the land downunder! Are you able to keep all weight/pressure on the lead leg or is there some shift to the back leg? Is your grip strong like Jim recommends? Is the clubface aimed at the target? Sorry for all the questions but in need of help here!😅
Love the tips. Used the swing on my last few rounds and im getting a consistent draw with irons. Still need a little practice with driver though. Keep the vids coming. CHEERS from New Jersey, USA.
I have used a sort of swing setup as yours, but the ball position is much farther left of my lead foot. Ball from 4" left for pw to about 20" left for driver. Because my wrist/elbow could not take the force of taking a deep divot, I found I could start clipping the ball when its farther left in the stance and relieve the sudden jolt of ground impact. Have used this setup for 35 years, im now 69yrs old. Weight 70/30, left foot slightly open, back foot slightly back.
Your hybrid method appears similar to the "stack & tilt" method whereby at the full backswing, one is looking down the left shoulder at the ball, most of one's weight is on the forward foot from the start thru the swing, and not shifting the body weight from the back to the front. However, your recommendation to fully stretch the arms out from the start thru the swing seems to be your way of avoiding releasing the club head (lagging) too early which hits the ground before the ball (hitting fat). However, lagging or de-lofting the head is one of the most common means to compress the ball which leads to longer ranges.
interesting, I've been using Marcus Edblad swing for driver, Norman for woods/hybrids and a left sided (kind of Venetos) for the scoring irons. I"ll give it a whirl!
We are not robots all built to the same specs. We all move different. I'm not as flexible as I was when I was younger. I'm working to get more in shape but in the meantime my swing is going to be what works best for me. As I get in better shape, my swing will evolve and get better. I'm enjoying myself on the course.
It’s funny because I started JV lessons about 6 weeks ago. When I do it correctly, the ball flies straight as an arrow with good distance. The problem for me has been doing it consistently. It’s so opposite of what I’ve learned before that it’s taking a while to get out of the old habits. What’s interesting is I was told I was standing to far from the ball by the JV instructor. I was told to get closer because “good golfers stand closer”. I think his setup makes it harder to stand closer because with you chest closed and right shoulder back, it makes you kinda have to jam your right elbow in your side to get to the ball. I may give your hybrid way a try and get a little further back from the ball. I’m early on and really only up to swinging 9 iron. He really doesn’t want me skipping ahead to longer clubs or really playing golf at all for a month or so to get the program down. The problem is I’m already in a golf league, and I have to say, using the JV method on longer clubs and especially driver has been a nightmare right now. Did you experience the same thing?
Some great information here! One small point so as not to cause confusion though. Early on and a couple of times throughout the video you referred to opening your stance. If your feet are pointed to the right you are in fact closing your stance. I think you might have been referring to flaring your right foot to the right, but regardless of this great information! I am a big fan of both single plane and Jim Venetos and I will be giving this a shot. Great information as I stated and keep up the great work.
You’re spot on! I’ve intuitively known Jim and Moe were onto something and to simplify it by combining both into a hybrid swing is something I’ll definitely be practicing. Thank you from Arizona!
Lots of skeptics here, but I can just tell what I found. 73 years old now, was shooting in high 70's in my early sixties, and then I started to lose it. Conventional swing requires fast reflexes to make the adjustment just before impact that determines whether you hit straight, pull, or draw. I lost all consistency and that was reflected immediately in my scores going to 85 plus. The last 3 years I have been hitting 150 balls per day, searching for something that would work. At times I found various methods that appeared promising, but each resulted in me having either back, shoulder, hip, or hand issues, and therefore I discarded them. I will admit the JV system was the easiest on my body, but the amount of stillness required to be consistent..................... good luck. Guys are in the class for years and still can't break 80. So I was a little bit hesitant to try this swing method. I gained 20 yards and a consistent straight ball on all irons. Haven't hit woods yet, but I have no reason to think they would be any different. My 8 iron carries about 150 yards with it. I don't know why it works so well and there is no soreness in any part of my body. For whatever reason I don't have to be totally rock solid still to accomplish it as in the JV swing, so it truly is the easiest swing for power and consistency. All of you young guys, just wait, the conventional swing will fail you at some point. I continue to sprint every day to keep my reactions as fast as possible and I do an hour of stretching every day, but believe me, the conventional swing will fail you as it has the very best champion golfers.
I agree with what you are saying...Just one small caveat. Not everybody is optimally a left (forward) anchor golfer...I think the work of E.A. Tischler and Adams make a good case for this. However, if one is having contact problems certainly try something like this.
Good on you for putting stuff online, however I think you are missing one key on the venetos stuff. He stands over the ball turns his body and Then grips the club. I have been heavily influenced by Hogans book and he spends 16 pages on the grip! So I find Venetos very engaging and consequentialy I struggle to not take my grip before addressing the ball.Like you I am too mean to spend money on lessons - maybe I should!
Thanks John, as a result of your video I watched Jim Venetos videos, and then signed up for his course. I was struggling a bit and remembered you saying that one should fold the club on the backswing ( as well as the follow through), and that really helped. BTW I have two friends , both golf pros , who not only knew the great Moe Norman, but played golf with him numerous times. Lots of good stories about him. Thanks again.
Excellent Great idea combining both concepts of Jim & Moe’s swings. I’ll through in one more idea or food for thought. Add Lee Comeaux’s elbow action to it (fold up-fold down) and the swing works like a charm for me. Bottom line your idea has helped other golfers keep those videos coming!
It's great that you found your own technique. How do you apply that swing to the short game and feel shots? What's your handicap index with that swing?
I've worked hard on the Venetos swing and hit a perfectly straight ball but it's always a push to the right. Very awkward aiming so far left to hit the target and just can't figure it out. I notice you set the clubface before you put your body into position or take your full grip. That might help me. And, I, too have tried the Kirk Junge method. I've always tried to keep my left arm straight through the entire swing (like the pros do) but it's not always easy to do. I like the fold-unfold approach you're talking about. Just looks easier. I'll try combining them like you suggest and see what happens. Thanks for the tip.
I think you have something there , I worked with Jim's method for quit a while and I tried Moe's swing method once I sent for the instructional tape but It didn't work for me I did however have some very good results with Jim's method , I will give your method a go as soon as winter passes , thanks .
Thank so much this video. I feel the same as you about the traditional swing. I have tried every swing there is with lessons and I pretty much stay at an 85 average score. Sometimes I'm in the 70's or in the 90's but inconsistent. I have done the A swing, Stack and tilt, Moe's/Todd Graves single plane, Easiest swing, and Jim Venetos. They all have there good points. I really like Jim's closed stance and Moe's swing but I have had issues with them also. So I really think you have the correct combo here. I will try this and let you know how it goes. Again thanks for coming up with and sharing it.
The last comment before mine! We’ll have you seen more Norman or Jim frock Lee tracing? If you have you will probably understand that it’s not always about picture perfect swings.
i've tried the body pivot swing and it works for a while and then i lose it. what i find better for me is keeping the feet more flat on the ground and swing the arms and club with an early wristcock. the body kind of follows.
I can't believe my eyes. It's really unbelievable! I changed to Moe's Single Plane a couple of years ago and was also putting most of my weight on the front foot. A couple of months ago I started to watch Jim Venetos and found it very interesting. I used the winter months to combine Jim Venetos move to my single plane. I didn't tell my friends because they wouldn't know what I'm talking about. I think your clip is amazing. Thank you so much for posting it and motivating me. I am looking forward to see more clips from you.
I agree with you sir and appreciate your analysis I am over trying to look like Tiger or Rory I have been using Moe's later years swing with little or no hip turn recently with great success as I am a fair putter and good short game. My cronies cannot beat me on a good day. It works for me. The athletic swing Clay Ballard Milo Lines etc works but is super inconsistent at my age and ability Well done I will try presetting impact Venetos with Moe's method
I’ve actually been trying this out exactly this for about two weeks and immediately achieved greater consistency,especially the longer clubs! Well illustrated!
I have a hard time getting distance with my Driver with my weight forward. I must be doing something wrong, but I`m so inexperienced I can`t seem to figure it out.
I tried it last night it took a few shots to get used to it but it did work. I hit a ball with a 7 iron pretty far and it was pretty straight. It was harder to do with my driver for me personally.
I tried Jim’s swing. I could hit every club with a slight draw, half the distance I hit using my current swing. Unfortunately my current swing leaves me in trouble most of the time.
Thank you I'm 70 years old and for 3 years learning golf after lessons which only taught me what the club is supposed to do but I played worse. Inconsistent contact. After watching your video it all came together I'm so excited that at last I have something that is working for me - PSA the first shot using a 7 iron I got a straight high flight and an extra 15 yards - amazingly simple but I believe like you mention knowing the foundations is really important in making this work. you have been my best coach Thank you for sharing this rob form the UK
Very interesting, will try this next Time ! I often Wonder if one of the keys in Moe's swing is how compact it is. In his backswing his lead arm almost stops when parallel to the ground.
![How To Align For Accurate & Consistent Golf Shots [Struggle No More With Accuracy!]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/MYwGNnDO_I0/mqdefault.jpg)
Hi! Thanks for the acknowledgment! You’re speaking a lot of truth. The hybrid you speak of really isn’t a hybrid. Provided you keep your weight heavy on the lead foot and your shoulders closed through impact, wherever you start your arms, provided they are relaxed, will likely produce quality shots
Cheers!
Thanks JIm . Sorry I stuffed up your name . Honored to have you comment .
Validation from the uber cool instructor himself! Quite an endorsement.
I love the solidarity amongst charlatans 😅
@@jeffmartinez262 I'm not selling any thing mate . Just trying to help golfers struggling with the game . You have a better idea . Post it . In order for me to be a charlatan I have to be actively decieving people . Where is the deception ?
@@worldseasiestgolfswing7109 Great presentation I have never thought of adding the Moe Norman part to Jim's swing. I have been using Jim's mechanics for a little over a year now. Adding that extension just takes another variable out like you said. Will give it a go the next time I hit balls. As far as the comment above yours don't sweat it man see it on Jim's videos all the time. It's like people just love to bash something different. Golf should be fun and a person should swing the club in any manner that makes it fun. I wish I could swing and play like the pro's I can't time all that up and when I have tried in the past it would put me on the brink of walking away. Thanks to people like Jim and yourself thinking outside the box I enjoy the game and can at least more times than not keep the ball in play.
Your 'combo swing' method is very helpful. It's a swing technique that allows us to execute the takeaway without overthinking. I support this method as i have watched a lot of Jim's videos...
I think you are on to something that will help many injured golfers and non injured golfers.
I taught golf for 30 yrs. as a club pro and I took lessons from many pros to learn their system.
Natural Golf (Moe's swing) certified, Jimmy Ballard, John Redman, Joe Davidson and Mike
O'Leary Simple Swing, Peter Croaker Teach the teacher. I played Jim Venetos swing until
I was injured in the lead leg and then I learned the Channel Lock Swing which you put about
55 to 60% on your trail leg and this was a great swing for me. Then I had a severe injury on
my trail leg so after not playing for 9 months I've tried the Jimmy Ballard swing for less
rotation and Dr. O'Leary's swing from Ireland that I customize that gives more power in
any swing but I am still having a sore back.
I have tried your swing hitting in a net and I have good power and no pain. But I will give it
a go when the weather gets better.
Thank you for your videos and congratulations on your invention.
It looks good! Your thoughts are mine after having learned Jim's swing. At the moment I have some arthritis in my left shoulder which is cooling my golf practice, but I'm definitely going to add the Mo Norman aspect as you have shown. Thanks for the video. I am a big Jim V. fan!! and am now 75 and impatient for the weather to turn warmer so I can get outside again.
Very practical way
This is absolutely what I needed to see! I agree and think you have hit the nail on the head! Thanks-subbed!😊
brilliant ! i’ve been a student of both todd graves and jim venetos. gave up on todd’s (moe norman ) swing and did JVGA swing only. i had big problem with hitting too many hooks. i did exactly what you said. stood much further back from ball like the one plain swing and then did JVGA swing. perfection! much more predictable ball flight and now i can hit my target much more consistently! thank you ! i’m went to range today and now im pumped to take it to the course ! you’re the Man!
One suggestion for the hooks.. at least for me....make sure the left hand is dominant on the backswing and downswing.. The right hand is just along for the ride and obviously most important is the stillness, make sure the shoulders dont open during the downswing.. I'm right hand dominant and find it difficult to pull with the left hand but as I practice it more, it makes the biggest difference in the result and gives me the "tight draws" Jim talks about. I also notice I'm pulling correctly by my finish. Both arms are stretched out away from my body, kinda like a pro if you will, when I do it right.
Just thought I'd share since I had the same issue.. Good luck to you....
thank you for sharing! i’ll def try to weaken my trail arm. i know im prob swinging to hard with it , i have big tendency to do this.
@@CallMeJackWagonI struggle with block shots to the right with the JV swing. It’s not a fade or slice. It goes straight but to the right. Everyone tells me that it’s because of my closed stance which I know it isn’t because if you swing properly it should go straight or slightly draw. Amy suggestions?
@@nickygee010 Would say you are not staying still during the downswing. Your shoulders are not staying closed and therefore you have lost your stable compass point, the left shoulder. What happens then is the clubface is never pulled back to a straight arc or slightly inside out. So it comes toward the ball from the inside and continues going outward and the result is a straight push. To get a baby draw the club comes in shallow but is pulled back on line at the last split second by centripetal force applied to the centifical force of the inside approach. You can never do this if your shoulders are past impact position but you haven't reached impact with the ball. It all happens automatically if the shoulders stay still.
@@richardmakula4307 Thank you for the input. I’m sure you’re correct about my right shoulder coming over. One of the biggest issues I’ve had with JV is ignoring the arms. I just cannot grasp that concept. When I ignore them they drop to the ground 6 inches behind the ball. When I focus on them too much the right shoulder comes across. Successful ball strikers keep the left arm straight and the right elbow close to the body. I’ve been working on that even though he doesn’t want me to with some success. It has to be a thought first before it becomes a habit and something that can be ignored.
you are SO correct. 👍
I to have ben struggeling finding the raskest swing to perform and still have good lenght and accurate landing of the ball.
With JV i have had my absolute best results, But only from time to time. And i foundvthe , for me thenproblem was the close to Bodø position of the shagt/hands - making room for errors..
When i started with ledd arm streched out, like Moe or Kirk Junge, and in additiondrew the trial foot a bit back with the JV pivot - problem was solved !
Long, stright or baby draw shot EVERYTHING time - on the course my buddies mengenet every time : 'he just walks up to the te, drop the ball, look out on the fairway, set up and hit the ball stright/baby draw time atter time...'
No stress neither in my head nor in my back - just having fun..
I am sure !! this realt is the easiest swing for anybody !!
Cheers 🇳🇴
... yes ! and I thought I was the only one doing this combo thing , at 70 it's not exhausting to play anymore ...
I have tried this Mo Norman /Jim Venetos combo swing and it works very good for me. I also single length irons and my accuracy is off the charts. My golf buddies have noticed the change and are now trying to this swing. I like Jim’s teaching style and Todd Graves teaching style. Keep up the great videos!
I also have a set of the cobra one lengths that I play around with too .
great minds think alike!
I have been using Cobra single length, and a mix of Kirk Junge (Kirk has arms out at setup, like Moe and Bryson) and Jim Venetos.
Both focus on setting up for impact and simplifying the swing.
But I am still a long way from off the charts accuracy.
I close my stance only about five degrees. Doing it 45 degrees I have to hook the ball to get close to the target. I guess I am doing something wrong.
But the weight forward and focussing on stillness has really helped, combined with setting up with arms out...arms down makes no sense to me.
Awesome video! I can't wait to try this swing out. Please post more if you can!
Hey John, this is similar to what I am doing in the last year and I’m really glad for the confirmation. I am older and a right leg below the knee amputee. The main difference I see is that I drop my right foot and leg back about as much but keep my foot 90* to the target line where you flare your foot about 45*, which I will be trying. I drop the right back because I have no mobility in my ankle and therefore balance issues. The rest is pretty similar. I am hitting my driver about 240 total yds on a good one and I am 81. The big news is overall ball striking though! Thanks for sharing.
Great video, those are the two guys that I think are the most on track. I used to swing out of my shoes but as I got older the more it hurt. Moe is gone but Todd Graves is keeping that swing alive and Jim's swing looks to good to be true but it really works if you can keep still and keep your weight on your front foot you are practically guaranteed good contact.
I've raced mountain bikes, offroad trucks, dirt bikes, full contact football, etc. Of all the BS I've done, golf seems like one of the hardest sports to be able to do over the years. The impact from stuffing a full iron swing is absolute hell on the wrists and hands and elbows. The swing alone builds muscles on one side leading to hip, thigh, back, and neck issues which radiate all through the body. I think young golfers should focus on sustainability and what 40+ years of wracking your wrists can do to a body. I'm not just complaining, I mean it with the intent to spread awareness as the guy who made this video is talking about.
Hi Loved the logic, Ive watched lots of both Mo and Jim clips. Ive swung similar to this for a few years Lately Ive started opening the face on the backswing (with a strong grip) and snapping the clubface shut on impact with the hands. My swinthought is stay quiet with fast hands. On the downswing swing out from the target line uncock the wrists early come into the ball smooth low and flat. I feel Ive got lots of power and control doing this. Keep posting
I’d be also interested to see how you handle bump & runs, pitches and chips as well.
i follow Kirk Junge (single plane). With your swing i do this to draw the ball but it plays havoc with my lumbar spine. All those palm tree's remind me of the Sunny Coast. Please do some videos out on the course say 3 or 4 holes, Different lies, approach shots etc etc.
You are so right. Quit trying to make the perfect looking swing and do whatever it takes to get the ball in the hole in the least possible strokes. Short game, short game, short game!!
pretty isn't always right....only have to look at Jim Furyk to see that....
Pretty interesting idea. Been trying all the conventional drills for some time. Recently tried hitting the ball Moe Norman style after watching Bryson and Trump play online together. I hit the ball as solid as I ever had into a net the other day. Not on a range or course yet. Then I been watching Jim Veneto's videos today. Realized years ago I played with a very closed stance like him and used to crush the ball, which I forgot about after years of not playing. Taking lesson with someone who teaches the conventional way. My contact is bad but my swing is looking closer to what is conventional. Drilling with the bowler drill this month, which what reminded me of how I used to swing with a close stance. Seems this drill is pretty popular and some pros even used it on tour somewhat. I'm going to continue with my conventional lesson because I feel close. Knowing if I can get that swing down and also incorporate what you're showing here and Jim's swing which are both something I've kinda used with success already, then have all these down proper should only help. Jim knows how to swing all different ways as did Moe. As long as you learn them properly then it's like hitting different shots on the course as if you were going to hit a stinger into the wind or a hook around a tree etc.
Like a few other of the comments I have recently become a fan of both Moe and Jim and when i came across your video immediately knew it would help with a more consistent repeatable swing ( for a 79 year old anyway).
Found your video last week and have taken it to the range. Also 79 years old with one fusion and balance issues. Once I got the swing figured out liked the results! Much easier on my back... and very consistent results. Need a few more sessions at the range to feel confident over the ball... but this swing feels right for me!
Very interesting, especially since I was already tempted by Moe Norman's technique and Jim Venetos'. Anything that can reduce the variables is welcome.
You should make new videos to give details, on how to avoid mistakes with this technique.
For example, I have the unfortunate defect of shifting to the right (sway) during the back swing, and of tilting towards the toes, etc.
Do you still use this technique with satisfaction?
I'm glad to see this. I've used the Moe swing for almost 20 years. I have occasionally tried the Venetos swing in combo with the Moe arms, just as you are doing. I found it great with irons but I struggled with longer clubs. Where my Moe swing is the opposite. Very good with long clubs, but not as good as I'd like with irons. The JV swing is great for getting your weight forward without trying. And it brings the arms through effortlessly because the weight movement just pulls them through. I did find it hard on my lead knee, though. Lately I've been pre-setting my weight a little more on the front side with my Moe swing, but without the full JV setup. After 20 years I'm still fine tuning, haha. I average 81 or so, and get in the upper 70s every 4 or 5 rounds.
Enjoyed this thanks for making it
Thank you for this. At this point all I’m trying to find is something repeatable and remotely consistent. Yeah I’ve hit 300 yard drives but it’s once in a blue moon. Any more I’m lucky to find 2 fairways a round. I’d rather be 230 and safe.
My Local course has water in play on almost every single hole . If you cant hit the fair way you are in big trouble .
@@worldseasiestgolfswing7109 around here it’s desert. So if you’re not in the fairway you’re in the bushes and rocks and most likely taking a drop 😂
Would you film a video playing a few holes like this?
I would also love to see this
Yes, I would love to see all shots on a whole round as well
Note how there has been no follow up… It’s basically click bait with a virus. The virus being that if you try this you will in fact ruin your golf and require a full system reboot. 😂
I would love to see a game too
Great find for you, you have figured out what works for you, A swing that gives you consistency, congrats on solving your golf swing puzzle. Greta Job and thanks for sharing!
Thanks heaps for this video, it's excellent. I've been doing the Jim Venetos course for about 8 months and never hit the ball so well. The only time I stuff up is my distance from the ball so might try incorporating the Moe Norman bit you mention.
I'm 64 and since Jim's course I've gone from 26 to 13. Totally agree that now I get no back pain as well.
Thanks again
Brendon
Thanks for the video, my friend. I have tried several combinations with JV's swing, but not this one. Will try this weekend.
I will have to try this swing. Hopefully this week.
Makes a whole lot of sense and it works. Scoring is better for sure.
I been struggling with my direction. About two weeks ago I started to align my body also the way you do. It help. I didn't know about this video until now.
I told my wife this weekend I am not going to the golf course but to the driving range to practice it with all my clubs. I will also now try to open my right leg more. You are 100% right to say that everyone should know what works for him and stick to it.
a great combination of two great ball strikers i like it very much it has made it very easy on my knees as not too much twisting
I am so glad to see someone who came up with a swing similar to mine... I created my "hybrid" swing from Moe Norman as well, and a fellow by the name of Kirk Junge who teaches a set up for impact swing .... it is a really consistent swing, and at 62 years old, when conditions are just right, I can still pound out a drive close to 300 yards every now and again, much to the dismay of my friends of similar age! The only problem I have with my hybrid swing is the tendency to pull the ball , sometimes missing my target line by as much as 40 yards on drives. I have worked and worked on trying to rectify this, and sometimes I do for a couple of rounds, but then the pulls suddenly come back. If anyone has any hints I would love to hear them.... I guess I shouldn't complain, I have this past year gotten my handicap down to a 9.5 with this swing!
I get the pulls to, sometimes I wonder if it’s from to much tilt or the inherently strong trail hand grip. I like to think my Jumbo Max grips lessen the rolling of hands
It is your trail shoulder wanting to take over stay still swing out down shoulder line at set up
I just wanted to stop by and say thank you for enlightening me to this swing. It’s great for me and I haven’t struck the ball this consistently ever. It’s so simple but so effective. It truly is a game changer. I’m 31 and am so glad to have found this now. I’m now out here trying to be or look like a PGA pro, so I don’t miss me the unorthodox set up one bit. Feels great on the back as well! Give it a shot all!
New golfer here. This is my first year. Hogan’s swing is great but I have bad timing with my hips. I also miss the ball sometimes. Looking forward to trying this at the range. What kind of grip are you using when holing the iron?
Is ball position just the usual or a little further back? Great work sir and looks a very repeatable swing
I've been working on Jim's preset. I'll try and extend my lead arm. Thanks, no one more consitent then MO!!!
Thank you for this. Much needed!
John-- I find this VERY interesting.. I would like to know if your ball flight is straight, draw, power fade etc.. Also, if you would share, where do you have ball position for all clubs? Will keep watching and check it out for myself.. I also think the best compliment you can get from another golfer is, "Good Swing".. So, "Good Swing".. Keep the videos coming please..
Thanks// Raangeman
Is the position of the ball any different than a normal swing?
Great combination which reduces the variables and margin for error. Is your ball position as per the conventional golf swing?
I like it a lot! question....how do u takeaway the club? with your hands or do u maybe open your body or do u start from your left side? I would like to know!
From your pre set stance ,I simply just fold my right elbow . Unfold in the down swing . Its that easy . Check out my other video . I then just let the club pull the body around . I just think . Keep still as possible , Fold , unfold .
@Worlds Easiest Golf Swing thx for your reply I will definitely try that sounds simple enough so even for someone with the takeaway jipps like me should be easy to do 😁
@@worldseasiestgolfswing7109 I really like your video. Will you be posting any other videos, perhaps on the range so we can see the ball flight?
Cannot wait to give this a good try , thanks 😊
Hey ! That looks great to me. I will try working on this swing this winter ( now ) and hope I have a good feel for it come spring. I have been struggling with consistent ball contact for nearly 50 years , I am 68 now and need a swing like this ! THANKS
Over the plane on the downswing. What does your ballflight look like? Are you hitting draws?
Cuts, hooks, slices… the works.
I understand both concepts and use Jims' setup and swing, which creates a shallow descending blow. As I watch the video, you can notice you are still coming over the top, due to your right shoulder not staying inside, and close to the body. Check out your video swing in slow-mo.
The setup kind of reminds me of a John McEnroe tennis serve setup: weight left, closed stance.
Hi there from the land downunder! Are you able to keep all weight/pressure on the lead leg or is there some shift to the back leg? Is your grip strong like Jim recommends? Is the clubface aimed at the target? Sorry for all the questions but in need of help here!😅
I like it ... I'll give it a try ..Thanks !!
Love the tips. Used the swing on my last few rounds and im getting a consistent draw with irons. Still need a little practice with driver though. Keep the vids coming. CHEERS from New Jersey, USA.
Looks great. Many tanks.
What is your swing speed? And handicap?
I have used a sort of swing setup as yours, but the ball position is much farther left of my lead foot. Ball from 4" left for pw to about 20" left for driver. Because my wrist/elbow could not take the force of taking a deep divot, I found I could start clipping the ball when its farther left in the stance and relieve the sudden jolt of ground impact. Have used this setup for 35 years, im now 69yrs old. Weight 70/30, left foot slightly open, back foot slightly back.
What about ball position, can you let me know if you change club to club.
You didn’t comment on shoulder tilt since wt on frt foot is your leading shoulder tilted down etc? Randy
Your hybrid method appears similar to the "stack & tilt" method whereby at the full backswing, one is looking down the left shoulder at the ball, most of one's weight is on the forward foot from the start thru the swing, and not shifting the body weight from the back to the front. However, your recommendation to fully stretch the arms out from the start thru the swing seems to be your way of avoiding releasing the club head (lagging) too early which hits the ground before the ball (hitting fat). However, lagging or de-lofting the head is one of the most common means to compress the ball which leads to longer ranges.
he said he does that to consistently hit the center of the face
I wish I discovered your video a year ago. I am very consistent in my swing. Thanks for helping me enjoy this game.
interesting, I've been using Marcus Edblad swing for driver, Norman for woods/hybrids and a left sided (kind of Venetos) for the scoring irons. I"ll give it a whirl!
Very logical, obviously works for you, you have incredible club head speed.
We are not robots all built to the same specs. We all move different. I'm not as flexible as I was when I was younger. I'm working to get more in shape but in the meantime my swing is going to be what works best for me. As I get in better shape, my swing will evolve and get better. I'm enjoying myself on the course.
it worked for me with my bad back, cheers
Will try this, like you I have tried a few.
It’s funny because I started JV lessons about 6 weeks ago. When I do it correctly, the ball flies straight as an arrow with good distance. The problem for me has been doing it consistently. It’s so opposite of what I’ve learned before that it’s taking a while to get out of the old habits. What’s interesting is I was told I was standing to far from the ball by the JV instructor. I was told to get closer because “good golfers stand closer”. I think his setup makes it harder to stand closer because with you chest closed and right shoulder back, it makes you kinda have to jam your right elbow in your side to get to the ball. I may give your hybrid way a try and get a little further back from the ball. I’m early on and really only up to swinging 9 iron. He really doesn’t want me skipping ahead to longer clubs or really playing golf at all for a month or so to get the program down. The problem is I’m already in a golf league, and I have to say, using the JV method on longer clubs and especially driver has been a nightmare right now. Did you experience the same thing?
Some great information here! One small point so as not to cause confusion though. Early on and a couple of times throughout the video you referred to opening your stance. If your feet are pointed to the right you are in fact closing your stance. I think you might have been referring to flaring your right foot to the right, but regardless of this great information! I am a big fan of both single plane and Jim Venetos and I will be giving this a shot. Great information as I stated and keep up the great work.
Brilliant Mate.
You’re spot on! I’ve intuitively known Jim and Moe were onto something and to simplify it by combining both into a hybrid swing is something I’ll definitely be practicing. Thank you from Arizona!
You have a good grasp on the fundamentals simplified. Great insight my friend!!
Do you also use Moe’s grip?
Lots of skeptics here, but I can just tell what I found. 73 years old now, was shooting in high 70's in my early sixties, and then I started to lose it. Conventional swing requires fast reflexes to make the adjustment just before impact that determines whether you hit straight, pull, or draw. I lost all consistency and that was reflected immediately in my scores going to 85 plus. The last 3 years I have been hitting 150 balls per day, searching for something that would work. At times I found various methods that appeared promising, but each resulted in me having either back, shoulder, hip, or hand issues, and therefore I discarded them. I will admit the JV system was the easiest on my body, but the amount of stillness required to be consistent..................... good luck. Guys are in the class for years and still can't break 80. So I was a little bit hesitant to try this swing method. I gained 20 yards and a consistent straight ball on all irons. Haven't hit woods yet, but I have no reason to think they would be any different. My 8 iron carries about 150 yards with it. I don't know why it works so well and there is no soreness in any part of my body. For whatever reason I don't have to be totally rock solid still to accomplish it as in the JV swing, so it truly is the easiest swing for power and consistency. All of you young guys, just wait, the conventional swing will fail you at some point. I continue to sprint every day to keep my reactions as fast as possible and I do an hour of stretching every day, but believe me, the conventional swing will fail you as it has the very best champion golfers.
Looks clever, thanks a lot ☺
I agree with what you are saying...Just one small caveat. Not everybody is optimally a left (forward) anchor golfer...I think the work of E.A. Tischler and Adams make a good case for this. However, if one is having contact problems certainly try something like this.
Good on you for putting stuff online, however I think you are missing one key on the venetos stuff. He stands over the ball turns his body and Then grips the club. I have been heavily influenced by Hogans book and he spends 16 pages on the grip! So I find Venetos very engaging and consequentialy I struggle to not take my grip before addressing the ball.Like you I am too mean to spend money on lessons - maybe I should!
Thank mate!…works for me.
Thanks John, as a result of your video I watched Jim Venetos videos, and then signed up for his course. I was struggling a bit and remembered you saying that one should fold the club on the backswing ( as well as the follow through), and that really helped.
BTW I have two friends , both golf pros , who not only knew the great Moe Norman, but played golf with him numerous times. Lots of good stories about him. Thanks again.
Great video 👍
Excellent Great idea combining both concepts of Jim & Moe’s swings. I’ll through in one more idea or food for thought. Add Lee Comeaux’s elbow action to it (fold up-fold down) and the swing works like a charm for me. Bottom line your idea has helped other golfers keep those videos coming!
Is it not frustrating playing off 36?
Year later. How is this swing working out?
Brother! Thanks!🙏🏿
Great explanation. I watched your swing five times. I’d like to know what your practice. And how the setup (to the ball) is achieved.
It's great that you found your own technique. How do you apply that swing to the short game and feel shots? What's your handicap index with that swing?
I've worked hard on the Venetos swing and hit a perfectly straight ball but it's always a push to the right. Very awkward aiming so far left to hit the target and just can't figure it out. I notice you set the clubface before you put your body into position or take your full grip. That might help me. And, I, too have tried the Kirk Junge method. I've always tried to keep my left arm straight through the entire swing (like the pros do) but it's not always easy to do. I like the fold-unfold approach you're talking about. Just looks easier. I'll try combining them like you suggest and see what happens. Thanks for the tip.
I believe JV says to pivot first (preset turn), then grip club. This is an interesting hybrid approach
I think you have something there , I worked with Jim's method for quit a while and I tried Moe's swing method once I sent for the instructional tape but It didn't work for me I did however have some very good results with Jim's method , I will give your method a go as soon as winter passes , thanks .
Your driver length looks to be in the 50 inch range?
Thank so much this video. I feel the same as you about the traditional swing. I have tried every swing there is with lessons and I pretty much stay at an 85 average score. Sometimes I'm in the 70's or in the 90's but inconsistent. I have done the A swing, Stack and tilt, Moe's/Todd Graves single plane, Easiest swing, and Jim Venetos. They all have there good points. I really like Jim's closed stance and Moe's swing but I have had issues with them also. So I really think you have the correct combo here. I will try this and let you know how it goes. Again thanks for coming up with and sharing it.
You are my favorit !
The last comment before mine! We’ll have you seen more Norman or Jim frock Lee tracing? If you have you will probably understand that it’s not always about picture perfect swings.
i've tried the body pivot swing and it works for a while and then i lose it. what i find better for me is keeping the feet more flat on the ground and swing the arms and club with an early wristcock. the body kind of follows.
I can't believe my eyes. It's really unbelievable!
I changed to Moe's Single Plane a couple of years ago and was also putting most of my weight on the front foot.
A couple of months ago I started to watch Jim Venetos and found it very interesting. I used the winter months to combine Jim Venetos move to my single plane.
I didn't tell my friends because they wouldn't know what I'm talking about.
I think your clip is amazing.
Thank you so much for posting it and motivating me.
I am looking forward to see more clips from you.
Congrats on your recent +54 round!
Blind leading the blind
@@Agb23334 Congrats on being a chop
Ok with irons but not with driver and woods ?
I agree with you sir and appreciate your analysis
I am over trying to look like Tiger or Rory
I have been using Moe's later years swing with little or no hip turn recently with great success as I am a fair putter and good short game. My cronies cannot beat me on a good day.
It works for me.
The athletic swing Clay Ballard Milo Lines etc works but is super inconsistent at my age and ability
Well done
I will try presetting impact Venetos with Moe's method
I’ve actually been trying this out exactly this for about two weeks and immediately achieved greater consistency,especially the longer clubs! Well illustrated!
Saludos dé cdmx de leo Martínez golf academy ⛳
I have a hard time getting distance with my Driver with my weight forward. I must be doing something wrong, but I`m so inexperienced I can`t seem to figure it out.
You’re doing nothing wrong. This “technique” is utter nonsense and will kill distance across all your clubs.
Can you please show proper on course shots? I do not see how you could possibly break 100 with this swing and technique.
I tried it last night it took a few shots to get used to it but it did work. I hit a ball with a 7 iron pretty far and it was pretty straight. It was harder to do with my driver for me personally.
It sounds like your absolutely crushing the ball. Btw, is your grip strong?
I tried Jim’s swing. I could hit every club with a slight draw, half the distance I hit using my current swing. Unfortunately my current swing leaves me in trouble most of the time.
I like this concept. I hope you do more videos in the future.
Thank you I'm 70 years old and for 3 years learning golf after lessons which only taught me what the club is supposed to do but I played worse. Inconsistent contact. After watching your video it all came together I'm so excited that at last I have something that is working for me - PSA the first shot using a 7 iron I got a straight high flight and an extra 15 yards - amazingly simple but I believe like you mention knowing the foundations is really important in making this work. you have been my best coach Thank you for sharing this rob form the UK
Is it the same for pitch/chip n bunker shots
Very interesting, will try this next Time ! I often Wonder if one of the keys in Moe's swing is how compact it is. In his backswing his lead arm almost stops when parallel to the ground.
Ball position with different clubs. I.e. Driver v. A 7 iron v. Wedge
I've tried this three times so far. Best driving range day ever. Throwing darts. I felt like a pro. Zero fatigue or soreness.