Flying Aircraft Carriers are Possible. Here's Why we Don't Use Them.
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- Опубликовано: 9 фев 2024
- Today we build the ultimate Flying Aircraft Carrier in Flyout!!!!
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To me the likeliest reason something like this was never done was that half the reasons you might do it vanished with the advent of aerial refuelling and the rest are accounted for by strategic bombers with ALCMs
It's a bit more complicated than than. Even after aerial refueling become widespread tests with parasite fighters were made but the whole idea turn into a dead end both due practical reason and the need for specific platform which cannot be built due technological limitations, which is why US test the idea to use first modified bombers and then even 747 as flying carrier, at least until a Korean civilian liner was shot down by Soviets after have been mistaken for a military aircraft.
Not to mention how easy it is to shoot down big planes.
The real reason is that one anti-aircraft missile could theoretically take out an entire air wing.
@@andrewzamora2689 No. We have ways to counter missiles, back then there were other reasons, the problem was a plethora of smaller issues.
@@ANDREALEONE95”mistaken”
"in a world where Bezos invests in a sky carrier" me getting flashbacks to Max0r's Ace Combat 7 summary
The package is death you will now die. cease to be.
“That’s all they’ve really been. A concept”
USS Akron and USS Macon: *Am I a joke to you?*
exactly what i was thinking! airship aircraft carriers were pretty much the first flying aircraft carriers and were some what successful! it makes me so sad proper rigid body airships disappeared i love them so much
@@therealtwo2deedont forget us Airplains witch docked smsller aircraft under neath.
Or Soviet one
@@jokekopter2509 true!
Honestly the idea of combining an Airship with an Airplane could result in something really interesting.
@@ThatSpaceMann I wonder if you could maybe do something like the inflatoplanes from good year, but larger and filled with lifting gases. On another note, the Airlander airships (the ones that look like a giant ass) do produce aerodynamic lift to assist in lifting
I love messier 82 basically the reason why Ill be studying aviation/aerospace engineering soon.
Same, so lucky to have such an inspiring and creative person with the tools to express that creativity in a field im so interested in
same
I can relate.
It's my dream to become one.
(I originally wanted to become a pilot but then health issues lol come)
I’ve heard it’s a trap
Godspeed y’all. My advice, whenever you are going into an industry find the pain point and be good at it. Learn to enjoy doing what others hate
8:31 that sounds absolutely horrifying, I love it
Just like helicopter, nothing really fancy. Proper real-world sound would be Tu-95, saw this thing couple of times, it is as loud as helicopter next to you so high up in sky that you barely see it.
TU-95 vibes
I would scream
00:30 well, not really, the USSR tested and later used flying aircraft carriers (or at least one TB-3 that was modified to be a "mothersship") in 30 missions, with only 3 parasite fighter (Polikarpov I-16) was lost in combat. Their first real mission was to bomb a bridge in Romania which they did smoothly due to the enemy not minding the I-16s since it's a small fighter and they doesn't have that much of a range and their bombload is nothing huge or simply they just failed to identify them as enemy, that is a mistery. In fact those I-16s couldn't have even take of with the massive bomb they got during that mission so it was really practical to launch them from a moving flying platform. This doesn't mean that they are viable though, the TB-3S were only used there since no other plane was available during that time (or bomber, can't remember) so they used the otherwise outdated bombers-turned-experimental-failures into something useful. Very rare Soviet ingeniuity right there
(Those who are curious search for the 'Zveno project', I recommend Mustard's video on it but there are a lot of videos out there so pick your poison 😊)
This is one of my favorite things that were made in ww2!
there were at least three converted bombers. They used the parasite fighters because their current bombers couldn't hit that bridge, there were no dive bombers available, and the fighters didn't have the range or payload capacity needed. It worked for taking overloaded fighters beyond their combat range and payload capacity.
@@JaneDoe-dg1gv Didnt I-16 worked as dive bomber in said example?
Rex's Hangar also covered this as well
They were actually used to deliver smaller aircraft, allowing them to dive bomb enemy infustructer
That looks like one of the flying battleships from Project Wingman, which is something you might be interested in!
not enough railguns
Ace combat
@@riley_ae86 Project Wingman has a couple that fight each other
No, those are airSHIPS not airborne aircraft carriers. They might’ve been used as supporting ships for the carrier group but this is more like the Arsenal Bird.
@@Han_Solo6712 yea because the arsenal birds carry aircraft under and in it's wings, project wingman ones don't carry aircraft. However Project Wingman is like a funky high quality fan made ace combat. They were definitely based on arsenal birds but had to be different in some way.
Flying dronecarriers I can see, but other than that is beyond practical.
Flying aircraft carriers are really cool, have you heard of the Russian 'Zveno' project from the 1930's. it ended up flying around 30 mission in active combat during WW2, and was surprisingly successful, despite being quite outdated. I just finished making a Kalinin K-7 Replica which carries deployable, and one controllable strike fighter(s)
And the US at the same time had the USS Akron and USS Macon.
Nuclear powered aircraft are all fun and games until you find yourself looking at Fukushima screaming out of the sky at 800mph.
If everything is done well, no.
@@calcog5716Yeah, a properly built reactor can survive a direct crash with a mountain.
@@jacextreme6432Check out the British testing of reactor casings.
@@jacextreme6432this is true for naval reactors at
That would have to be one hell of a tsunami to take out an airplane. I think we would have bigger problems at that point lol
2 more very valid reasons as to why areal Carriers are not becomming a thing.
To take a significant number of aircraft, they need to be significantly large. And while the sky maybe near limitless for space, the ground where such an aircraft must take off from certainty is not.
And if that was not an issue, then you now have defend an airport the size of (insert obscenely large number beyond comprehension here) from enemy attack, all for some advantages you can do already at a larger and/or smaller scale, and some advantages you can honestly do without.
I mean one could in a way help "solve" i guess reduce both issues by making them float. Can't destroy the water.
@Caktusdud. port facilities, and one can argue at at such a point, it would be better to build an actual aircraft carrier
@@Foxtrot_UniformCharlieKilo I agree but lets just wing it
@@Caktusdud. it wouldn't be the first time
By "compression" you mean comprehension?
It's funny that you mention the Arsenal Bird, the ACE Combat 7 drone mothership, but not ACE Combat 6's actual flying aircraft carrier/cruise missile platform, the P-1112 Aigaion. I think they did a good job of making it seem feasible, they mentioned how it was so big it was built on and took off from the ocean, and while it can land in the ocean it instead is kept continually in the air, used as their main "Heavy Command Cruiser" and they even show it being refueled by 6 DC10 tankers, which really puts its scale into perspective. They even took it a step further and had it be escorted like an actual aircraft carrier, always being accompanied by 4 smaller but still absolutely massive (I believe) drone gunships ,of which there were two different models of, I recall one specializing in missiles and electronic warfare, and the other just having turrets all over it. 100% By far my favorite example of the flying aircraft carrier concept.
I mean tbf. DARPA did put a contract out for large non ground effect restricted Ekranoplans recently. So maybe not far off even if "Move entire battalions across an ocean in a few hours" isn't as flashy as a flying aircraft carrier.
An orbital weapons platform would be cheaper and more reliable. 22 minutes to strike anywhere on Earth.
F = Fighter. C = Cargo..
It should have been the KC-01 Kraken, or the KCV-01 Kraken. K for refueler/tanker. CV for carrier. CVN for a nuclear carrier.
CV stands for Cruiser aViation.
@@CounterfeitDuck not quite, the V just means Heavier than Air aircraft, whereas Z means Lighter than Air aircraft, which is why something like the USS Akron and Macon are designated as ZRS. V standing for Voler and aViation are merely just guesses
honestly, the question of "why" a flying aircraft carrier never really occurred to me.
This kind of thing feels like its own reward for my all-i-know-about-war-is-videogames brain
The shear power of those engines at takeoff would rip anything behind them to particles if not fine sand... I love it.. ❤❤❤
tbh you were the main reason i got into flyout, thanks man
an ejection plane instead of a seat would be hilarious
Another potential reason for this one specifically: it'd be very difficult to convince the international community that this thing isn't just a cover for developing nuclear ICBMs.
the radar dome's placement is a bit unrealistic, due to the size of the wings it would almost completely be blocked from looking down, which is a problem when this aircraft would have to be scanning well past the local curvature of the Earth. More likely a flying carrier of this size would have multiple phased array antennas across the leading edges of the wings, in the nose, and in the tail or in the wingtips so that it can have a 270 degree or greater radar arc around the aircraft.
Messier you can control the plane with thrust vectoring engines, but that means moving the main plane as well
"Drone defense! Hold my beer!" said the hacker...
Someone who just graduated from an aerospace masters here. Your videos are so genuinely enjoyable - I remember designing an AWACS style High Altitude Long Endurance UAV for coordinates search and rescue using drones in remote areas.
It was inspired heavily by a concept like this however.
Suggestions rotating radar is out of date fixed pod is in. Internal aircraft storage is a must for drag and operation maintenance and Stealth. A fat flying wing like a b2 seems a more useful shape. One of the newer reactor designs like molten salt and others may be lighter and not need as much shielding. possible direct electricity production to electric motors. AI injoyed your work
Awacs is long wavelength long range radar. You cant make it aesa quiet sp effcicie tly, because of the insane size needed for all the antennae, plus you'd need 4 arrays either way. You will see the aesa plates for shit like SAMs and counterbattery still rotate mechamically.
This has a very Miyhazaki look... Like some of the flying monsters from Nausicaa or Future Boy Conan. love it
I'd really like to see M82 do a size-ordered lineup of all of his crafts, probably via photoshop or something, just so we can get a true perspective of the dimensions of all his aircraft.
Other issues would be wingtip vortexes and prop wash (turbulent air caused by generating lift and thrust). Landing a small aircraft on a larger aircraft would be extremely difficult. This issue could be solved by using lighter than air aircraft. But to do that the size would grow to even more insane proportions, and the speed would slow to a crawl.
Something potentially more realistically done in real world is the new types of zepplins/blimps they are making for hauling cargo long term albeit at slower rates than normal planes. Make them big enough, and they can carry basically any load anywhere on the earth without much issue.
Hey Messier, loving your videos! I was wondering if you would consider doing an "improved he 162" build/challenge. Where, with the power of hindsight, you would design the best possible version of the he 162, with the same engine or another engine that was available in Germany at the time of the 162's creation. This aircraft would have to be simple and cheap to produce, as that was most of the point of the 162.
Thanks and keep up with the great content!
Where have you been all my life!!? As a diehard Ace Combat/Macross/General flying machine and other flying stuff, this channel is truly a blessing. Aw man, this is the kind of channel (if I have money) I'd be a member of. For now I'd just watch and liked every videos you make. Also, reality is a cruel mistress, how boring a technically possible sky carrier be, but it's life and loving it!
"CAPTAIN WERE CRASHING"
"oh lets drink our last glass of whiskey then"
"man this beats dying"
Dude thank you, thank you, thank you yet again for never creasing to amaze. Im soo glad youve been doing more flyout content again. I love your overly detailed explanations and designs and im hinestly one of your biggest fans 🔥🔥🔥🙏🏾
That thing sounded like a lawnmower on a time lapse doing a drive-by, that was awesome sounding in the weirdest kind of way
When I saw the Arsenal Bird in Ace Combat, I thought it was cool but I also thought how stupid it was because of it's size. I like speed and streamline designs, big looks cool but I would get frustrated quickly and cost is another factor. That's my thoughts on flying carriers. Big, Slow and vulnerable.
The concept is now reality! Well in a sense, The C-130 is able to launch and recover The X-61 Gremlin ;)
I'm so happy I found your absolute gem of a channel! I think my absolute favorite fictional plane of yours is the supersonic turboprop plane, but this also looks really cool!
Can't say about real life, but it fit perfectly in GI JOE's universe. Cheers!
i think my favorite fictional airborne aircraft carriers are the ones from the game highfleet! basically big steel ships kept up by massive jets with the aircraft carriers featuring a decently long runway on the top for aircraft to launch and land from and huge legs like landing gear that means they can just become portable airstrips
Your videos are relaxing❤
It's not the nuclear propulsion of the carrier itself, nor food stores. It's the refueling of the planes carried on the carrier itself that will limit the flight time of such a plane.
The other, even greater problem for an extended flight is water usage. Even the smallest, most streamlined carriers will have a crew supplement between 2000-3000 personnel on board, not to mention the over 6000 on the US supercarriers today. They easily use at least 20 gallons/75 liters of water per person per day. Minimum. And that's being conservative. A waterbound carrier has enough water around it to desalinate it onboard. A flying carrier does not. That means such a carrier gets lighter each day by, again very conservative calculations, at least 2000 * 7.5 liters per day, assuming a full 90% recovery rate of used water, which is an almost unheard of recovery rate. So the flying carrier would loose around 15 tons of water a day, which it can't recover until either a flying support plane brings in that water, or the carrier lands and restocks on the ground. Dito for food supplies. After one month of flying such a carrier would have no more water on board, forcing it to land to allow its crew the required drinking water.
So basically a bad idea compounded by nearly impossible logistics.
i love the AWACS radome-dish on the top
It would be one of the coolest sounding flybys but also one of the most terrifying.
Messier has come such a long way, it’s beautiful
Love watching your videos and the design of your aircraft nice job
Air carriers will likely never happen, but an orbital carrier potentially could. Power needs become less of an issue as you only need to maintain a stable orbit, and prepped fighters can be dropped from the carrier to complete a mission, then return to a ground base to be boosted back up to the orbit platform along with resupply missions. Definitely a long term option rather than something currently possible, but its more feasible than at atmospheric carrier. Plus it would give the Space Force something to do instead of making memes.
What i wouldn't mind to se is a large Aerial Warship, that just carries a lot of VLS Cells, CIWS and maybe some anti ground howitzer
Love the Avro Arrow wing notches 🤘👍
love your videos, keep up the work.
You mention Ace Combat 7, but don't forget about the much more direct Ace Combat 6's "P-1112 Aigaion", the flying stingray guarded by EWS and CAS support flying ships that can carry carrier aircraft and even has the capability to carry powerful cruise missiles.
The arsenal bird and all of Ace Combat are some of my favorite things ever, they should hire you to build the next super weapon haha
The size of the engine compared to the f35 on the thumbnail is insane. Your videos are awesome m82. I love your planes and am gonna follow suit when I get the game
I just bought flyout today! I would love to see a tutorial-type video on how to get started with building my first plane.
I played with a nuclear powered spaceplane with a payload of well over a kilotonne. (I don't remember exactly.) I based it on the Star Raker using DUMBO-esk rocket cores.
Landing gear was a serious problem! In fact, I found them to be unmanageable. The solution, and you're going to laugh, was to make it a sea-spaceplane. The wing area was large enough that heat shields were not necessary, though active cooling had to be implanted it the hot zones. So, salt corrosion was manageable. Turns out, if you can deploy water wings at take off, much of the complex shape of a sea plane can be eliminated. You don't want to land that way, but it greatly simplifies taking off... IF you have the power.
The vehicle required a very long runway. I think it was 5 to 10 km, depending on payload and aerodynamic assumptions, but it was perfectly doable. Bat-sh*t crazy, but doable.
Imo. Instead of an airborne aircraft carrier, a regular aircraft carrier equipped with a swarm of various drones and commander aircraft allowing for sorties operating anywhere at any time and able to be equipped with any form of ordnance in the form of a drone commanded by a piloted aircraff
The psychological warfare of hearing that thing coming ALONE is severely underrated....want an RC one! Also, how have I not heard of this KSP for adults game yet??????
Three months ago, I mentioned the KMS Nue Berlin and Hainan, two Creations I made myself, and that's where I think to myself, how do such a craft propell itself, well, I know how, a Reactor is in the main fuelsolauge, connected by shaft to the 4/8 turbines on board, as the rotor on top rotates at a very fast rate as nuclear rods are used to make power, liquid Nitrogen is used to cool the rods, with the gases similar to steam being sent via tubing to dump it from six ducts, the tubes known as dump pipes can also be cleaned, to prevent rust from appearing, the turbines power four props on each pod, where air spins them, helping the power from the reacter to get the max power of 70-400K shaft horsepower, to the main fuelsolauge, there are lots of Radiation Shielding in front and behind the reactor, so that no man can be infected with Radiation Sickness
If we are going to start talking about putting nuclear reactors on aircraft you might as well just use electric motors for propulsion and the reactor for generating electricity. There is no point in adding another layer of complexity to an already unproven system. Also having the reactor for solely generating power would make for a better self contained system. This modularity would also make refueling or changing the reactor better. It would also make it easier to power the aircraft with a different type of generator if needed. The other major advantage is the reliability of electric motors. You could even potentially have multiple motors connected to a gear drive to power the props, so you could in theory disengage a faulty motor and replace it during flight. This redundancy would be essential for an aircraft meant to stay in the air for weeks or months at a time.
ah yes, that emergency bottle of whisky 😂, nice plane!
Your original flying aircraft carrier video remains the top viewed because that was the most gorrrrrgeous plane in the most gorrrrrgeous thumbnail.
And I would love you to continue working on it. Pleaseeeeee ❤
I've loved the concept of a flying carrier since the Arsenal Bird in AC7, it's my desktop background!
my design would be a double wing, for store planes on top and still have lift on the under wing, and it would be much smaller, just to carry 10 fighters for the mission, and a an124 is allready big to it... and it would need to land on water, becouse in a war it would be capable of refueling with ship, and also would be able to refuel submarines...
Imagine taking the term air fleet a bit more literally.. like that this carrier had a whole group of gigantic aircraft following it: destroyers, frigates, maybe even dreadnoughts
well you did kinda make the arsenal bird, If you switched this concept to the idea of a large plane full of cruise missiles to retain the standoff advantage and response time you could get a much more practical design. I've heard ideas of shoving a bunch of cruise missiles in a B-52 after all
1 month ago, I made the KMS Nue Afrika, a Troop Transport Aircraft meant for supplying troops to my M7676-T-1 Transcontinental Military Transport to send troops, tanks, and other land vehicles to its designated locations and beyond, like other craft, and like the FC-01 Kraken, the KMS Nue Afrika is ment to be Nuclear Powered, though its Nuclear Turbines are more fuel efficient than other craft, something that is unique cause my mega ship creations are usually fuel inefficient, but I don't care, cause the KMS Nue Afrika can ferry troops across the world till it needs to be refueled
actually, there was one aircraft carrier and it was the *zveno project* it worked and tested scoring hits and kills but did not fully work out any additional project and later was not funded. so in concept, it can be done.
Its not really a carrier, more like predecessor of ballistic missile carriers, with parasite fighters instead of them.
@@alexturnbackthearmy1907 well if you put it this way. a carrier is a transportable vehicle that ferries its cargo at one point and unload it but the said cargo is still lives after the action was done. a ballistic missile carriers carries its cargo which that cargo destroys and deals damage or no damage but it did not return to fight another day.
Stealth modded F-14 Tomcats with pilots on the Aircarrier operating them "by wire" would probably let you add a couple more parasite fighters to the complement.
You would need to wait like an half hour for wake turbulence after that thing took off.
Id call it the Jericho due to the horn like sound and the destruction itd bring
Actually there was an operational flying aircraft carrier called Project Zveno (soviet for idk), it saw operation in the second world war and all its missions were a HUGE success. No idea what happened to them, probably they were already outdated as the design was built in the 1930's
I know you coloured your reasons for not doing it early in the video but I would love to see your take on a Sky Destroyer to escort this ting. I sky carrier task force would be a cool sight to see.
This is a cool concept and you put a lot of effort into it. Well done! My question would be however, if you just hang the fighters under the wing, how do you refuel and rearm them? I think if the carrier has to act autonomuous, then he culd not send them back to some groundbase but it should be done on board.
Oh my god that flyby... music to my ears
really cool, but the advent of surface to air and air to air missles pretty much makes something this big and slow a non starter.
Great video. Subbed...👍
Radiation shielding on the reactors isn't itself redundant. Radiation can be considered corrosive to all materials. Radiation itself even can change the color of certain minerals, which is how amethyst gets its color. Radioactive particles being essentially cannonballs on an atomic scale means they absolutely deteriorate any materials they come into contact with, so that shielding is necessary for structural integrity and also any fine equipment nearby.
All power issues go away when you just use the hot rocks to make props go round
This makes me want to play AC7 again
Arsenal Bird is that you?
Also, LOVE your videos, you make FlyOut look so easy..
Well if we're dealing with the hypothetical, then I would highly recommend replacing your nuclear reactor with low energy nuclear reaction (LENR) cells. There are groups currently working on this technology and perfecting it. I don't know the specific energy output, but from what I've read so far, it could be incredibly powerful while at the same time very compact. That means with such a dense source of power output your craft could carry lasers to deal with any aircraft including hypersonic missiles, possibly satellites too.
When someone says Flying Carriers I want to say the test of the B-29 and the small jets or the old Blimps and biplanes come to mind first but I think of Ace Combat 6 with it's Aigaion Class comes up first.
I love how this thing ended up being pretty much Arsenal Bird :D
It looks the way it sounds, scary and menacing
cool to see that image used as the thumbnail
What I'm thinking can't be modeled here but I would think it might be easier to deploy from space. Imagine a command center with 6 of these things attached to it in orbit like a big metal pinecone. Use the planet's gravity to carry you to your target, deploy fighters, complete mission, collect fighters, return to orbit.
The soviets midified a TB-3 to be a flying carrier. Although it was hard for the i16s to connect back to the bomber
Concept? Akron and Macon worked, granted the sisters were very unsafe in bad weather
Somehow I doubt you want to shield only the part between the crew and the automated section.
I'm not an engineer, but I seem to remember radiations can damage electronics (which are generally very useful for automation, unless you use analogic automatons)
And then, you don't really want to shower the people you fly over with sweet radioactive death.
this type of vehicle could be used to break records in speed by using other prototype aircraft without wasting its fuel when takeoff!
Make a long range bomber with a docking parasite fighter capable of launching mid flight, and then reattaching mid flight. Where the fighter pilot can actually exit the fighter and enter the main bomber to enjoy its more spacious crew area.
When testing the engine you should give the pilot a wooden shack
i like the idea of this
Might be decent concept as a drone carrier.
Don't forget the USS Akron and USS Macon! They didn't do much, but I love that they existed.
Subscribed with bell, this is the first video I got notified for since the cinematic trailer. RUclips is being annoying again.
Engines sounds like a B-36, could shake a houses foundation
how do you load in other builds?
also as always great job
damn bro, your plane sound like the tripod in the war of world movie
Loved the video, I do want to note however that nuclear technology has come a long way and we are able to drastically reduce the weight compared to first gen technology that was likely what was used in the original program.
The closest we might ever get is a Jumbo Jet that can drop medium range drones out the back and recover them with a cable or something