It would be a good idea to note that the steering wheel should be tied in place or otherwise stabilized before disconnecting the steering joint. I am waiting on a new clockspring to arrive.
Oh no! That is a pretty common mistake that happens when people mess with the steering wheel while it’s disconnected. I should have explicitly stated it but it’s implied that the steering wheel shouldn’t be rotated much while it’s disconnected. I’ll pin this comment for awareness.
This is one of those things that sound like snake oil but actually make a noticeable difference to how the car feels. I thought they were bs but after I installed a set on my friends car I went out and got a set for myself. I doubt they will make you any faster but they make the car feel a lot tighter, they were one of the first things I added to my new S2k.
Great video ! I tackled this mod on my s2k a while back and this vid and explanation would have made things easier. I struggled a bit getting everything lined up initially.
If your steering rack coupler is seized to the column and/or rack like mine was, here's what I did: 1) disconnect the negative battery terminal and disconnect the steering rack ground cable to the subframe 2) undo all 4 steering rack mount bolts and leave them sitting completely loose but don't remove them. 3) ziptie the steering rack to the crossframe above. 4) lower the subframe like done in this video Now when the subframe is lowered the steering rack stays in place (hovering by the zipties) without putting stress on the steering shaft! When you raise the subframe back up the loose steering rack mount bolts act as guides to reinstall the rack. Remember to reconnect the steering rack ground and your battery terminal when done.
Discussed with someone from blktrax a long time ago about rigid collars. He said that with the collars it's more tied together so they have the potential to bring hard components out of spec if you go over enough berm/curb/off track or enough bad street roads. Versus without the collars you'll only have to get an alignment every so often. What you think? I decided against the collars and they still sit somewhere in my garage. Have sat in cars that have rigid collars with similar suspensions or spring rates and they're able to absorb bumps better and ride smoother.
My theory on why these work: Subframe bolts are long. The bolt shafts travel through a wider hole in subframe and chassis. Deep holes. The subframe hole is wider than bolt. The chassis then has a deep hole that is wider than bolt, before bolt reaches threads in chassis. So the bolts act a bit like guitar strings. Taught, stretched and unsupported between bolt head and chassis tbreads. A long way. Any impacts in chassis will reverberate through this long length of open bolt shaft. So the subframe collars shore up the bolt shaft, so its a much shorter unsupported length. Shorter guiter string. Plays a different note, plays with less volume. Smoother over bumps. More taught during dynamic suspension motions (aggressive cornering, braking, etc). These are really long bolts. The subframe is hollow, and deep. The bolt holes are significantly wider than bolt, and the chassis hole is equally wide, and more depth before bolt reaches thread. Long lenth of bolt shaft able to flap in the breeze.
Nice. Very informative as usual. Ended up getting a killer deal on the Spoon ones so will be tackling that soon enough. I’m guessing once you did the 4 outer bolts, you cleaned up / out everything that came out of them yeah? Hoping mine aren’t as bad, but was planning to blow them out anyways.
I don’t think I cleaned out one because I didn’t see how much junk came out until I was into the next one but everyone should definitely wipe away that stuff.
Great video as usual. To the point and clear explanation. I wanted to ask you if you had any experience with harmonic dampeners(ATI or Fluidampr) and if you think is a mod that the S2000 needs and if it will offer an actual improvement.
I don’t have any experience but I was just discussing this with a buddy and I am considering it. The main reason being that my CR is primarily a track car and spends a lot of time above 8k RPM. I’m a bit skeptical since it is a lot of money to sink into a pulley though. I’m curious if the car will have less NVH. I may reach out to urge to setup a review. What do you think?
I could speak for Fluidampr (I think I had it installed in 2020), the ATI is just sitting atm. It won't cure NVH as I had it installed on my previously owned 2009 FA5, & currently my AP2v1. I wanted it it anyways for its wider RPM range protection. It will absorb the torsion characteristics the crankshaft has to uphold because i4 are naturally imbalanced. When crankshaft twists (torsional) during operation, the added vibration from it will affect it's position out of alignment/placement of the bearings (rod & main). Think how vibration affects oil flow smoothness, & generates additional heat too = Power loss. Vibrations that could NOT be dampened by Stock Pulley [@ w/e given range RPM] will then of course spread throughout the long block (oil pump &/or valvetrain failure). Keeping the operation as balance as possible also affect drivetrain power delivery from the powerhouse (engine) to your wheels. Not day & night noticeability, but it is a buy product from a more stable engine. Stock Pulley is limited in RPM protection range (I cannot say the range), but many will say, "Honda made it that way for a reason" as their uninformed 'reason' I would not recommend buying it for power gains or showing it off @ car meets.
@@jinnnguyen7077 right! Damper damps vibes crank feels, not vibes you feel. In doing so, you might feel the added smoothness, but that's a side benefit.
here is a mod I had on both FA5 & AP2v1 on top of Fluidampr **FA5 (stock internals except oil pump) Generic tune (VitViper) stock ice box mod RRC (FD2) IM, TB, & oil pump S2 Header straight pipe w/ Full Race Exhaust Hasport 70A engine mounts **AP2v1 (stock internals) stock ECU (was on Infinity) J's Racing T-Rev (1-way valve between intake elbow & valve cover breather) Vibratechnics engine mounts -the other way to reduced NVH is to rebuild your Driveshaft & Axleshaft -also, my engine & trans are lowered, so drivetrain is that much more leveled w/ differential, but I cannot prove that it helped w/ NVH (even though Driveshaft is positioned w/ lesser sloped)
@@DIYGuysvideo I believe Fluidampr is slightly cheaper and the guys from Urge were pretty involved in S2ki forums. People were mentioning noticeable changes when installed. Would love a review from you if you can get your hands on one
I heard the steering coupler can stay untouched, but I guess it is easy enough. Are the threads originally threadlocked, so do you have to reapply on coupler bolts?
The steering coupler can remain untouched depending on how much the subframe is lowered. I didn’t want to leave it up to chance if other people follow this video. Also, the directions for the spoon rigid collars suggest to disconnect it. I’m not aware of any bolts anywhere in the s2000 that have thread locker from the factory (and I have disassembled many S2000s to the bare frame).
I lowered all the bolts while supporting the subframe with a jack. Then lowered the jack, which lowered the entire subframe evenly in one shot. Same way you’d lower the subframe when replacing the clutch.
For each subframe, its 3 bolts per side. They basically form a rectangle. One bolt in each corner, and a middle bolt along the long side of rectangle. Like this: . . . . . . As said, first remove the middle bolts. Next lower the corner bolts ∼30mm. Then repeat for rear subframe.
As long as the subframe is supported and doesn’t move much I don’t see the value in doing that imo. I’ve basically borrowed the steps from the shop manual for lowering the subframe during a clutch job. Have you encountered issues in the past?
@@DIYGuysvideo On a northwest car yes, had to thread in a helicoil for the passenger side rear bolt. You need a 12mm x 1.25 helicoil for those 14 x 1.5 for the fronts. Mostly my fault, and I agree , the key is to not let the subframe move around too much. Either down or up, because un-even stress on those bolts increases the chance of ruining the threads. Turns a 2hr job into a 3 day job waiting for the helicoil kit, and it's a $130 kit to boot.
![Lil Uzi Vert - Chill Bae [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/D7F42F_JM3U/mqdefault.jpg)
It would be a good idea to note that the steering wheel should be tied in place or otherwise stabilized before disconnecting the steering joint. I am waiting on a new clockspring to arrive.
Oh no! That is a pretty common mistake that happens when people mess with the steering wheel while it’s disconnected. I should have explicitly stated it but it’s implied that the steering wheel shouldn’t be rotated much while it’s disconnected. I’ll pin this comment for awareness.
Glad I did this mod. It definitely made a difference and it feels much more absorbent over dips and imperfections on the road.
This is one of those things that sound like snake oil but actually make a noticeable difference to how the car feels. I thought they were bs but after I installed a set on my friends car I went out and got a set for myself. I doubt they will make you any faster but they make the car feel a lot tighter, they were one of the first things I added to my new S2k.
This comment says it all. Instantly better drive. No bs.
I still believe it’s snake oil. If the subframe could move this much, the bolts would vibrate lose
I absolutely love that you make these DIY's, but hate how you make everything look so easy 😄😄. Awesome 'how to' yet again, thanks 👍.
I know for sure every single bolt will be stuck and caked in rust on my car 😂
I didn't even know these existed until you made this vid. I just installed Blox collars today using this video. Thanks a lot!
Great video ! I tackled this mod on my s2k a while back and this vid and explanation would have made things easier. I struggled a bit getting everything lined up initially.
Same situation. Did a while ago, trying to read Japanese instructions.
This video would have saved a lot of time.
If your steering rack coupler is seized to the column and/or rack like mine was, here's what I did:
1) disconnect the negative battery terminal and disconnect the steering rack ground cable to the subframe
2) undo all 4 steering rack mount bolts and leave them sitting completely loose but don't remove them.
3) ziptie the steering rack to the crossframe above.
4) lower the subframe like done in this video
Now when the subframe is lowered the steering rack stays in place (hovering by the zipties) without putting stress on the steering shaft! When you raise the subframe back up the loose steering rack mount bolts act as guides to reinstall the rack.
Remember to reconnect the steering rack ground and your battery terminal when done.
Rigid collars are like crushwashers of the subframe. 👌🏼
Discussed with someone from blktrax a long time ago about rigid collars. He said that with the collars it's more tied together so they have the potential to bring hard components out of spec if you go over enough berm/curb/off track or enough bad street roads. Versus without the collars you'll only have to get an alignment every so often. What you think?
I decided against the collars and they still sit somewhere in my garage. Have sat in cars that have rigid collars with similar suspensions or spring rates and they're able to absorb bumps better and ride smoother.
My theory on why these work:
Subframe bolts are long. The bolt shafts travel through a wider hole in subframe and chassis. Deep holes. The subframe hole is wider than bolt. The chassis then has a deep hole that is wider than bolt, before bolt reaches threads in chassis.
So the bolts act a bit like guitar strings. Taught, stretched and unsupported between bolt head and chassis tbreads. A long way. Any impacts in chassis will reverberate through this long length of open bolt shaft.
So the subframe collars shore up the bolt shaft, so its a much shorter unsupported length. Shorter guiter string. Plays a different note, plays with less volume.
Smoother over bumps. More taught during dynamic suspension motions (aggressive cornering, braking, etc).
These are really long bolts. The subframe is hollow, and deep. The bolt holes are significantly wider than bolt, and the chassis hole is equally wide, and more depth before bolt reaches thread. Long lenth of bolt shaft able to flap in the breeze.
Great video as always! Btw what song is that at @5:10
Deadlines by Dylan Sitts
Nice. Very informative as usual. Ended up getting a killer deal on the Spoon ones so will be tackling that soon enough.
I’m guessing once you did the 4 outer bolts, you cleaned up / out everything that came out of them yeah? Hoping mine aren’t as bad, but was planning to blow them out anyways.
I don’t think I cleaned out one because I didn’t see how much junk came out until I was into the next one but everyone should definitely wipe away that stuff.
thanks for the torque specs. will be doing this soon.
Great video! Thanks. I'm getting mine next week
Great upgrade 👍👍😊
I got the spoon ones for a good price
It blows my mind how clean and rustless the underside of your car is
Great video as usual. To the point and clear explanation. I wanted to ask you if you had any experience with harmonic dampeners(ATI or Fluidampr) and if you think is a mod that the S2000 needs and if it will offer an actual improvement.
I don’t have any experience but I was just discussing this with a buddy and I am considering it. The main reason being that my CR is primarily a track car and spends a lot of time above 8k RPM. I’m a bit skeptical since it is a lot of money to sink into a pulley though.
I’m curious if the car will have less NVH. I may reach out to urge to setup a review.
What do you think?
I could speak for Fluidampr (I think I had it installed in 2020), the ATI is just sitting atm.
It won't cure NVH as I had it installed on my previously owned 2009 FA5, & currently my AP2v1.
I wanted it it anyways for its wider RPM range protection.
It will absorb the torsion characteristics the crankshaft has to uphold because i4 are naturally imbalanced.
When crankshaft twists (torsional) during operation, the added vibration from it will affect it's position out of alignment/placement of the bearings (rod & main). Think how vibration affects oil flow smoothness, & generates additional heat too = Power loss.
Vibrations that could NOT be dampened by Stock Pulley [@ w/e given range RPM] will then of course spread throughout the long block (oil pump &/or valvetrain failure).
Keeping the operation as balance as possible also affect drivetrain power delivery from the powerhouse (engine) to your wheels. Not day & night noticeability, but it is a buy product from a more stable engine.
Stock Pulley is limited in RPM protection range (I cannot say the range), but many will say, "Honda made it that way for a reason" as their uninformed 'reason'
I would not recommend buying it for power gains or showing it off @ car meets.
@@jinnnguyen7077 right! Damper damps vibes crank feels, not vibes you feel.
In doing so, you might feel the added smoothness, but that's a side benefit.
here is a mod I had on both FA5 & AP2v1 on top of Fluidampr
**FA5 (stock internals except oil pump)
Generic tune (VitViper)
stock ice box mod
RRC (FD2) IM, TB, & oil pump
S2 Header straight pipe w/ Full Race Exhaust
Hasport 70A engine mounts
**AP2v1 (stock internals)
stock ECU (was on Infinity)
J's Racing T-Rev (1-way valve between intake elbow & valve cover breather)
Vibratechnics engine mounts
-the other way to reduced NVH is to rebuild your Driveshaft & Axleshaft
-also, my engine & trans are lowered, so drivetrain is that much more leveled w/ differential, but I cannot prove that it helped w/ NVH (even though Driveshaft is positioned w/ lesser sloped)
@@DIYGuysvideo I believe Fluidampr is slightly cheaper and the guys from Urge were pretty involved in S2ki forums. People were mentioning noticeable changes when installed. Would love a review from you if you can get your hands on one
You specifically mentioned copper grease, I used a nickel based antis-sease, any concern?
No concern. Nickel has even higher temperature tolerance than copper so it should be fine.
Awesome video, great explanation as always. Just curious, why did you not go with spoon?
The Manzo collars are around half the price and easily available stateside.
@@DIYGuysvideo Do you feel a difference in handling with them ?
Haven’t driven the car yet and doing coilovers at the same time so probably won’t be able to isolate the difference.
@@DIYGuysvideo what coilovers did you end up going with?
Shaftworks. Plan to make a video about it if I have the time :)
Man not cleaning the crust and dust erks me nervs lol
Can you do a DIY of drive shaft regrease?
Hmm. Maybe. I need a drive shaft that requires regreasing
I heard the steering coupler can stay untouched, but I guess it is easy enough. Are the threads originally threadlocked, so do you have to reapply on coupler bolts?
The steering coupler can remain untouched depending on how much the subframe is lowered. I didn’t want to leave it up to chance if other people follow this video. Also, the directions for the spoon rigid collars suggest to disconnect it.
I’m not aware of any bolts anywhere in the s2000 that have thread locker from the factory (and I have disassembled many S2000s to the bare frame).
I had to disconnect mine to get the subframe low enough for the spacers to slide in.
Did you lower both sides at the same time to keep it level? Or did you lower each side in turn?
I lowered all the bolts while supporting the subframe with a jack. Then lowered the jack, which lowered the entire subframe evenly in one shot. Same way you’d lower the subframe when replacing the clutch.
Is there a diagram of which bolts to lower first and hang the other ones? It was kinda hard to understand from the video. Thank you always!
Drop middle bolts out completely. Lower four corners 30mm and subframe hangs on them.
For each subframe, its 3 bolts per side. They basically form a rectangle. One bolt in each corner, and a middle bolt along the long side of rectangle.
Like this:
. . .
. . .
As said, first remove the middle bolts. Next lower the corner bolts ∼30mm.
Then repeat for rear subframe.
Thanks for clarifying Russell. The rear subframe is a bit of a different story though. More on that next video.
I would loosen the 4 long subframe a little bit, one at a time, this will reduce the chance of stripping any of the threads on the body.
As long as the subframe is supported and doesn’t move much I don’t see the value in doing that imo. I’ve basically borrowed the steps from the shop manual for lowering the subframe during a clutch job. Have you encountered issues in the past?
@@DIYGuysvideo On a northwest car yes, had to thread in a helicoil for the passenger side rear bolt. You need a 12mm x 1.25 helicoil for those 14 x 1.5 for the fronts. Mostly my fault, and I agree , the key is to not let the subframe move around too much. Either down or up, because un-even stress on those bolts increases the chance of ruining the threads. Turns a 2hr job into a 3 day job waiting for the helicoil kit, and it's a $130 kit to boot.
Maybe you know the exact sizes Height/width inner outer diameter ?
Manzo vs Spoon? Spoon double the price, but worth the cost? I’m guessing no.
They serve the same purpose. JDM tax not worth it.