"Do not try and bend the spoon, that's impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth...there is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself."
You guys you'll be surprised that I actually install this rigid collar on my family car JDM MiniVan Honda Freed Gen2. Oh man, the feeling is awesome, especially for my wife she hate that headbanging effect before, and now it is much reduced and she loves it because the car now feels much smoother with less headbanging effect. Install it for the wife's sake, not for the maniac driving mode....lol...🤣🤣
You genuinely need a medal for going into this much detail, videos like this are massively useful to reference just to confirm what you're thinking a part does it actually correct.
Installed them on my Civic EK4 hatch and I love it! I was looking for every bump in the street to ride over it because it felt so much smoother and bumps in corners have not that much ruffle in the suspension. The effect is because you eliminate the spring effect of the subframe to the chassis of the car. The suspension bolted to the subframe can perform better and the precise alignment to the center of the chassis is the key of this modification. I recommend this Rigid Collars to every car with a subframe no matter if old or new. The benefits are worth the money in my opinion.
Hey dude, how does it hold up overtime? I saw a guy in this comment section saying that after a few months, the feeling went away because, he thinks, the bushings became soft again on this "new position" they were in after installation. How did it go so far for you, long term wise?
@@BlueCrystal1996R I think you get used to it but the improvement of an aligned subframe cant go away. The car feels softer after installation because the spring effect of the subframe is eliminated. You can push the car harder and that gives you more confidence. Sometimes the car asks: "you don't dare to do more?" 😅
@@nfspeedy2 Alright thx! Yeah, i thought that it may have just been that the dude got used to it, so that's why i asked someone else (you) who had installed it too :p I think i'll try it for my next car
@@BlueCrystal1996R Install only the rigid collars and you will notice the difference. If you change other suspension parts at the same time it is hard to tell the improvement especially if you go for harder bushings. Please tell me your opinion after installation. Best regards from Germany.
@@nfspeedy2 Yup, I'll make sure to remember to tell you. Although it might not happen before one or two years, since it's not available for my actual car (nor worth it) ;)
I’ve got the Spoon rigid collar set amongst all me other genuine Mugen and Spoon parts fitted front and back to my fresh import JDM Facelift Ep3 Civic Type R and it seems tighter on cornering and along uneven road surface 👍😃
I have it also on my ek. It does really feel different absorbing bumps on the road. Makes the car feel more precise and solid. You'll be able to feel your suspension doing it's work more after doing this mod.
It appears that collars eliminate the spring effect of the sub frame and more energy goes through dumpers. So the next step should be ball joints instead of compliance bushings.
So in short, this kit improves the connections between the chassis and the car body. Which means that the car body will react to your suspension more directly. As if the chassis was welded to the body.
Not like directly welded. Dont forget there are still rubber bushings left in the subframe. They just filled the void/play between the hole and attachment screws
Good video guys! Very interesting! I have one question though: Would it be safe to say that the machining in the car and the holes are bigger to save production costs but also to eventually compensate production mistakes or imperfections? Which means that putting the rigid collar might actually prevent the car from being better centered/adjusted at the factory or the shop? I see the benefits of preventing slop and movement of these parts but I worry about the drawbacks of having it centered wrong with an imperfect chassis. Do you understand what I mean?
All good Jesse..just checked out your channel and subed..good luck with it bro,,and love the little camera person..I,m in the same boat just a little further down the river.if you know what I mean:)..it goes fast!!
I got them installed on my 06. Ap2. Really smoothened out weight transition feel from side to side (on cornering) and somehow reduced the" feel" of a body roll. Also bumps and road imperfections became more pronounced but less annoying / duller. Car started to feel like a better, even more premium class car. Maybe there's a lot of placebo, I don't know, maybe I just want to believe it, but, in my opinion this is definitely a must for an s2k. Just a little annoying to install (did it myself) I run mine with eibach springs + stock coils, 2cm lowered from stock. And on good year asymmetrical f1 ver 2 and on stock ap2v1 wheels.
I had em on my previous 2004 AP2v1, but mods in conjunction were NITRON R1, spherical bushings, CR rack stiffener, & 25 mm lowered engine. 1 of my friends said that it feels like driving a motorcycle because body roll was greatly reduced
@@jinnnguyen7077 ye. The problem for me that the first drive I did was on misaligned suspension (drove to workshop first) so couldn't really test the "unbiased before / after since the car drove like a 1758 carriage ;D But ye. After that all ppl who drove it say it feels amazing.
I just looked that shit up and I can't believe the assinine why is it taxed for the fc rx7 more then the fd plus 3 times more expensive then the BMW or a Honda of course I thought this wasn't china
The exact feeling is, every bump and movement is now transferred thru the dapper because the whole structure of the subframe is rigidly connected to the frame.
I would love someone to explain how removing the clearance around a torqued bolt attaching a subframe to a bodyshell will decrease vibration and improve ride quality? The clearance is there to allow tolerance in manufacture and alignment. If we assume the holes in the chassis are offset to the right by the max tolerance of, say, 2mm then this kit will force the subframe to the right by 2mm with no posibility of correct alignment?
Have put those on the Front and Rear of my Toyota Auris NZE151H and it feels much more better in cornering ;) SPOON Parts for Toyota ... I like this :P
21:01 reaction: priceless. I seen these a while back. It is a amazing idea. I didn’t realize some collars break in half to fit, wow. One of my questions was going to be, would they break or crack over time? My other question was , is it recommended to get a slightly bigger bolt to compensate for the thickness of collar/s being installed. But I guess if it’s crushing, it should be fine. Plus bolts/hardware aren’t made in lengths you want. It would be such a small larger length & it would impossible to find. I think Blox makes these also for certain cars. But then again, not knocking Blox but their is no comparison from Spoon to Blox. Unless they are both getting them from the same supplier. EK9 install please, thank you. Awesome video.
I used them on an Integra Type R, immediately after installation there was a big improvement in compliance and stiffness, but most of it went away over the following months. My guess is that the new subframe position loads the rubber bushings in a different direction that they are initially stiff in, but then they get soft again over time, especially if they are old and worn out like on my car. Would be interesting to long-term-test the Rigid Collars on a car with brand new rubber, PU or pillow ball bushings.
In the case of a DC2 the effect on the clocking of the bushings would be almost entirely negligible, assuming I'm understanding the application point of these collars correctly. Did you re-check the torque spec on the subframe bolts at multiple points after installation? The mountings could have settled or shifted slightly resulting in a lower force holding the pieces together (and thus allowing some play between the body and subframe again). Either way, curious that the sensation would fade significantly over a matter of months; you would think this type of upgrade would be more permanent.
@@Talynen No, I didn't re-torque the subframe bolts at that time, but I agree it could make a difference in clamping force. The behavior very much reminded me of the time I changed rear upper control arms to the 98-spec hollow bar type: great initial improvement that faded over weeks/months. That's why this is my hypothesis. I'd say rubber bushing behavior makes it difficult to accurately judge the effect of subframe bushings, in any case. The most worthwhile permanent chassis improvement I made on that DC2 was changing the front strut bar from OEM to a 3 point bar, btw. Way bigger effect than adding a rear tower bar.
Rigi cola ftw, installed on my s2000 and although i cant be certain its not a placebo effect but the car feels much more put together, like a new car feeling
This is some awesome content! I hope that you'll get enough positive feedback and up votes from the rest of your viewers to keep more of this technical content coming our way in the future. While watching the video, my first thought was that if the manufacturer was aware of the large tolerances at play when mounting the subframe to the unibody (and they surely are aware as those tolerances are needed for the sake of easing the task of fitting the two together on the assembly line), why didn't they either mold the subframe with small riser so that it was "keyed" to align with a specific cutout manufactured into the unibody, or alternatively and more appropriately, simply cast a conical shaped upright collar into the subframe itself around the opening that the bolt fits through. This would allow a large enough amount of tolerance at the top of the collar molded into the subframe to begin mating the subframe to the holes in the unibody. But the bottom of the collar molded into the subframe could the designed such that it's outer diameter would match up with the inner diameter of the hole in the unibody so that it would auto-align to perfection with zero tolerance during assembly when the bolts attaching the subframe to the body were tightened. (Much like a hydraulic fitting works when tightened.) As far as the difference in feel goes after the rigid collar has been installed, I'm inclined to think that any difference felt while encountering imperfections in the road surface would have more to do with the elimination of any potential horizontal play between the unibody and the subframe itself (eliminated with the introduction of the rigid collar) than it would with the exact centering of the subframe mounting point in relationship to the mounting holes in the unibody. Purely a guess on my part of course, but definitely interesting to think about. Thanks very much for putting this one together - great video!
There are some other companies doing the same thing for cheaper. I have basically the same thing branded as "Stiff Ring" fitted in my car. But then again, I dont feel much after installing. Most probably because I was installing it on a stock car with stock suspension.
It's very fascinating how serious japanese tuners take care of such details and wants to improve every aspect of the cars. I love your content, man. Keep going. Greetings from Argentina.
I don't think western mechanics spend as much time making sure the subframe is bolted up evenly and slowly, they'll just whack them in and get on with the next job 😓
Heres what I dont understand, you have an entire team of professional mechanics meticulously installing these Rigid Collars. How can 1 person do this by themselves? If its not even presented in this way, the consumer base you present too is extremely limited in their installation options. Here in the States, there are no dedicated shops that will do a job like this correctly. If you can show a video of 1 man doing this installation by themselves, it would be better, instead of an entire team.
I'm going to be the skeptic here. You are fitting the parts onto a R34 GTR which is fully bushed on all 4 corners of the subframe. The subframe maybe centered and clearance is reduced, but the suspension pickup points are still mounted on an object that's secured to the car via rubber bushings. I'm not saying that the collar doesn't work but you are still putting them in the center of a bushing which is going to move whichever way the force is coming in. On a car designed as such, putting on cheap and cheerful GK tech bushing sandwich plates that basically cancels out the bushing function will be much more noticeable when it comes to suspension reaction on the road.
Automotive engineer here and I agree. Honestly, I'm surprised Spoon sports is pushing out such a useless product like this. Literally the only thing this does is centres the subframe on the body when the bolts are tightened, that's it. Your typical M10 or M12 subframe bolt torqued to standard specs of around 70-100 ft lbs will produce around 10,000 lbs of clamping force. Once the subframe is torqued to the unibody, it won't move under any circumstances. And the minimal change in location of suspension pickup points due to misalignment is pretty much negligible, and not something you'll feel in any road car given all the compliances due to all the rubber.
I hear you both, but then what are the people in the comments who've done this and the JDM Masters guys reacting to? All placebo? What about the small but clear differences in motion captured in the "before" and "after" sequences? I think "slight" and "subtle" is the reality of it.
Thumbs up for Capt Brad but thumbs down for what Japonic said about paying for the whole speedo but only using a quarter, that feels so entitled and immature, hope thats just a dry joke.
Car manufacturers' constraint obviously. Why are we paying to rectify manufacturers' issue? Aren't manufacturers to address the issue? Btw, cars are 2mm taller after installing the collars. LOL
Technically, this collar also doing a body lift with a specialized washer. How many mm are gained in ride height? But I totally agree it is designed to center the subframe and body.
Your wrong. Because most torque on chassis bolts are 100+ ft lbs. It will crush the washer part. The crital part is the collar that centers the bolt. I've done this job twice at home. Easy peezy
21:56 I bought a car with these collars installed, I would have to agree 100% what you guys say here. That is the most accurate way to describe how it feels with these installed.
This is kind of bull crap because if you take it to be installed. You are expected to fell it (yeah it feels stiffer). I know your lieing but it's OK... You have to install this on there car without them knowing it... if they don't say anything about it. Then you know what this stuff is bull crap gimmick stuff... Soft things give out fast...
Man, never heard of this. Makes a lot of sense. Appreciate the heads up. And at the right time too, as I’m piecing together suspension parts for my GS. Hopeful they make them for this older Lexus
9:17 I bought a whole speedometer I'm gonna use the whole speedometer. Nismo with the 300km/h cluster, "I have this product you might be interested in"
This product is second in dubious efficacy only to the Yamaha Performance Damper but I'm glad to finally see a solid review on it. Interested in fitting a set to my car to see if there's any improvement. Do Spoon regularly do installations like this or did they make a special allowance for you all? I'm always nervous about just going into famous or high-end shops and expecting to have work done.
there is only one way to find out ;-) You can come with every car to the Spoon Type One shop to get the Rigid Collar installed. They did R34 GT-R Skylines before, so they have the experience.
@@nfspeedy2 Good to know, thanks. I have a rather strange S15 Silvia with an R33 subframe in the front but the rear is mostly stock so I'd expect they could deal with it. I've been avoiding Tokyo (I live in Ibaraki) because of covid but it doesn't look like too much of a post-apocalyptic wasteland in your video so I'll try and contact them sometime.
hum .... Okachan welded my S15 subframe .... magic happened.... but took 3 months to understand the positives over the negative.... can not turn back now after 12 month , to the day ..... talk about timing of this video.... well done Ken.... ( my only question - what about the subframe bushes there is still movement / flex in the bush so still allowing movement , or am i missing something here )
s15melb , don’t think it would make much of difference if it’s solid welded from memory the bolts on the S15 are welded to the body and if you have solid mounts already it’s more or less centered as fuck 😂
Bugünleri görmek beni çok sevindirdi Faruk abi. Allah yürü ya kulum dediklerinden eylesin inşallah ! Its very impressive to see these days had come. Im really happy to see growth in this channel. I hope you guys will succeed more.
@gilbert martinez I wasn't going to put him on blast but he's got the infamous smoker stains on his front teeth lol. I'm a bong smoker so I get the resin ring around the lips but when I switched to joints for a while the same thing happened to me hehehe.
Hey JDM Masters! Please do an Episode on the Mitsubishi GTO Twin Turbo (1996 - 1999) and the Mitsubishi FTO Version R in Manual (1997 - 2000)! Please do not overlook these two Japanese underrated Gems.
I'm sorry but not the kind o expense i would spend on my own 34, i truly don't believe makes ay difference on a heavy car like the 34. lets face it even from you guys reactions we can tell you not really convinced. i'm actually surprised spoon agreed on to do this video!
I've installed on my Chevrolet Spark (M400 generation) I'm sorry but mine are not Spoon... Mine are from Torcon. There is a night and day difference more stable
thanks for the video, great precision! I'm wondering how these would work on a minivan like the Honda Odyssey? I have a 2020 Odyssey RC1 and always wondering how I can improve ride comfort and further reduce noise.
What it does as the rigidcollar website Says : Rigid Collars cure chassis movement, improve handling, reduce road noise, reduce vibration, improve braking and make the car safer in an accident.
I binge watched all your videos during quarantine, your channel was the best RUclips find, keep up your awesome work! Please do a review on Capt’s EK9 Type R
Ken, awesome job!!! Let's see you do some type-a stuff!!! 👍🏾 Japonic I'm so envious because that is my dream car😋 ,but I'm glad you have it and are doing these awesome reviews!!
So I’m wondering if it would work with aftermarket bushings or would even have an effect? I would think it would initially fit, however sometimes they are built differently. Hmm🤔
only car enthusiast will finish this long video
like me
Facts 👍
Also me.
I'm in the process!
Watching it rn !
That was a really good explanation of the Spoon Rigid Collar, thanks for that👍.
GTR❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️🇱🇰
as we know it all our collars can be spoon fed.. type one:FC3S
It's not everyday that you see an R34 being serviced at a workshop heavily based off of Hondas
They had an Alfa Romeo on the lift when I was last there!
They also had a a90 supra there last time i was there. wish i could post a pic.
Keren twincam gt nya om 👍🏾
@@rofipratama4 hehe makasi om, udh kejual tapi skrg 😅
"Slightly tuned to 600 horsepower" - good one XD
It's like Driftworks owner all over
"This car happens to have a M5 V10"
"Slightly different noise"
I remember first hearing about rigid collar from speed hunters and now I think it's almost essential on older cars 😂
"Do not try and bend the spoon, that's impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth...there is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself."
The Matrix
Huh...I watched that this morning.
the real question is, is he gonna put a spoon sticker on the car now?
You guys you'll be surprised that I actually install this rigid collar on my family car JDM MiniVan Honda Freed Gen2. Oh man, the feeling is awesome, especially for my wife she hate that headbanging effect before, and now it is much reduced and she loves it because the car now feels much smoother with less headbanging effect. Install it for the wife's sake, not for the maniac driving mode....lol...🤣🤣
"Don't worry. If you're a home mechanic there are instructions."
Bruh. That looks like hell to install and adjust upside down on my drive way hahaha.
Yeah, I was thinking the same. Easy to install with access, which means all day on my drive (which isn't the worst). Cheers.
You genuinely need a medal for going into this much detail, videos like this are massively useful to reference just to confirm what you're thinking a part does it actually correct.
Installed them on my Civic EK4 hatch and I love it! I was looking for every bump in the street to ride over it because it felt so much smoother and bumps in corners have not that much ruffle in the suspension. The effect is because you eliminate the spring effect of the subframe to the chassis of the car. The suspension bolted to the subframe can perform better and the precise alignment to the center of the chassis is the key of this modification. I recommend this Rigid Collars to every car with a subframe no matter if old or new. The benefits are worth the money in my opinion.
Hey dude, how does it hold up overtime? I saw a guy in this comment section saying that after a few months, the feeling went away because, he thinks, the bushings became soft again on this "new position" they were in after installation.
How did it go so far for you, long term wise?
@@BlueCrystal1996R I think you get used to it but the improvement of an aligned subframe cant go away. The car feels softer after installation because the spring effect of the subframe is eliminated. You can push the car harder and that gives you more confidence. Sometimes the car asks: "you don't dare to do more?" 😅
@@nfspeedy2 Alright thx! Yeah, i thought that it may have just been that the dude got used to it, so that's why i asked someone else (you) who had installed it too :p I think i'll try it for my next car
@@BlueCrystal1996R Install only the rigid collars and you will notice the difference. If you change other suspension parts at the same time it is hard to tell the improvement especially if you go for harder bushings. Please tell me your opinion after installation. Best regards from Germany.
@@nfspeedy2 Yup, I'll make sure to remember to tell you. Although it might not happen before one or two years, since it's not available for my actual car (nor worth it) ;)
I’ve got the Spoon rigid collar set amongst all me other genuine Mugen and Spoon parts fitted front and back to my fresh import JDM Facelift Ep3 Civic Type R and it seems tighter on cornering and along uneven road surface 👍😃
Does it improve the road head though?
I have it also on my ek. It does really feel different absorbing bumps on the road. Makes the car feel more precise and solid. You'll be able to feel your suspension doing it's work more after doing this mod.
Is it really noticeable? I've been considering them for my JDM Ep3
Does it require to replace the bolts with thinner ones? Also want to ask you if it reduced the shake on bumps.
wranglertr no you use oem hardware
It appears that collars eliminate the spring effect of the sub frame and more energy goes through dumpers. So the next step should be ball joints instead of compliance bushings.
I just installed Rigid Collar without knowing them whats it really used for lol so I'm here watching
So in short, this kit improves the connections between the chassis and the car body. Which means that the car body will react to your suspension more directly. As if the chassis was welded to the body.
Not like directly welded. Dont forget there are still rubber bushings left in the subframe. They just filled the void/play between the hole and attachment screws
Yes. Even on stock suspension. And with a strut bar. The car felt more planted. And body roll was reduced even more
Yeth
Was it making NVH and comfort worse?@@AlphaFlight
Good video guys! Very interesting!
I have one question though:
Would it be safe to say that the machining in the car and the holes are bigger to save production costs but also to eventually compensate production mistakes or imperfections? Which means that putting the rigid collar might actually prevent the car from being better centered/adjusted at the factory or the shop?
I see the benefits of preventing slop and movement of these parts but I worry about the drawbacks of having it centered wrong with an imperfect chassis. Do you understand what I mean?
Yes understand completely!.... and great point.
cakeofthepan 22 thanks man!
The s15 rear subframe isn't centered. I can't remember which side it was exactly but something like 3-5mm difference in. thats is noticeable by eye
Alignment techs can depend on these tolerances to fine tune the alignment, and especially for cars that have been in accidents.
All good Jesse..just checked out your channel and subed..good luck with it bro,,and love the little camera person..I,m in the same boat just a little further down the river.if you know what I mean:)..it goes fast!!
Definitely felt that same sensation once installed on my 1992 Cappuccino. Well worth the upgrade. Alignment will stay true longer.
Super-sweet ride. I bet it's an absolute blast on a tight, twisty road.
I got them installed on my 06. Ap2. Really smoothened out weight transition feel from side to side (on cornering) and somehow reduced the" feel" of a body roll. Also bumps and road imperfections became more pronounced but less annoying / duller. Car started to feel like a better, even more premium class car. Maybe there's a lot of placebo, I don't know, maybe I just want to believe it, but, in my opinion this is definitely a must for an s2k. Just a little annoying to install (did it myself)
I run mine with eibach springs + stock coils, 2cm lowered from stock. And on good year asymmetrical f1 ver 2 and on stock ap2v1 wheels.
I had em on my previous 2004 AP2v1, but mods in conjunction were NITRON R1, spherical bushings, CR rack stiffener, & 25 mm lowered engine.
1 of my friends said that it feels like driving a motorcycle because body roll was greatly reduced
@@jinnnguyen7077 ye. The problem for me that the first drive I did was on misaligned suspension (drove to workshop first) so couldn't really test the "unbiased before / after since the car drove like a 1758 carriage ;D
But ye. After that all ppl who drove it say it feels amazing.
I just looked that shit up and I can't believe the assinine why is it taxed for the fc rx7 more then the fd plus 3 times more expensive then the BMW or a Honda of course I thought this wasn't china
GTR and Type R are both low volume cars with low tolerances. Higher volume cars will show a bigger difference.
it's not even 7AM where i am and yet i'm laying in my bed watching this entire video lmao
I'm watching this 5am in bed lol
Same bro haha
What about galvanic corrosion? Won't there be excessive degradation cause by the direct contact between the aluminum and steel?
Good point...
Spoon makes parts for vehicles other than Honda?! なに? Great content, keep it up. ありがとうございます from New Orleans, Louisiana - USA.
Spoon collar on a car full of Nismo parts?
*Interesting*
Spoon do these collars for a lot of different cars, not sure about Nismo 😜
The exact feeling is, every bump and movement is now transferred thru the dapper because the whole structure of the subframe is rigidly connected to the frame.
I would love someone to explain how removing the clearance around a torqued bolt attaching a subframe to a bodyshell will decrease vibration and improve ride quality? The clearance is there to allow tolerance in manufacture and alignment. If we assume the holes in the chassis are offset to the right by the max tolerance of, say, 2mm then this kit will force the subframe to the right by 2mm with no posibility of correct alignment?
I like spoon bit their price politics is...awful
Have put those on the Front and Rear of my Toyota Auris NZE151H and it feels much more better in cornering ;) SPOON Parts for Toyota ... I like this :P
21:01 reaction: priceless.
I seen these a while back. It is a amazing idea. I didn’t realize some collars break in half to fit, wow. One of my questions was going to be, would they break or crack over time? My other question was , is it recommended to get a slightly bigger bolt to compensate for the thickness of collar/s being installed. But I guess if it’s crushing, it should be fine. Plus bolts/hardware aren’t made in lengths you want. It would be such a small larger length & it would impossible to find. I think Blox makes these also for certain cars. But then again, not knocking Blox but their is no comparison from Spoon to Blox. Unless they are both getting them from the same supplier.
EK9 install please, thank you.
Awesome video.
I used them on an Integra Type R, immediately after installation there was a big improvement in compliance and stiffness, but most of it went away over the following months.
My guess is that the new subframe position loads the rubber bushings in a different direction that they are initially stiff in, but then they get soft again over time, especially if they are old and worn out like on my car.
Would be interesting to long-term-test the Rigid Collars on a car with brand new rubber, PU or pillow ball bushings.
What was the cost of these collers ? And if you totally overhaul the setup please update the results in real world driving feel !
In the case of a DC2 the effect on the clocking of the bushings would be almost entirely negligible, assuming I'm understanding the application point of these collars correctly.
Did you re-check the torque spec on the subframe bolts at multiple points after installation? The mountings could have settled or shifted slightly resulting in a lower force holding the pieces together (and thus allowing some play between the body and subframe again).
Either way, curious that the sensation would fade significantly over a matter of months; you would think this type of upgrade would be more permanent.
@@Talynen No, I didn't re-torque the subframe bolts at that time, but I agree it could make a difference in clamping force.
The behavior very much reminded me of the time I changed rear upper control arms to the 98-spec hollow bar type: great initial improvement that faded over weeks/months. That's why this is my hypothesis.
I'd say rubber bushing behavior makes it difficult to accurately judge the effect of subframe bushings, in any case.
The most worthwhile permanent chassis improvement I made on that DC2 was changing the front strut bar from OEM to a 3 point bar, btw. Way bigger effect than adding a rear tower bar.
U should re torque it after 1st install and apply thread locker
Rigi cola ftw, installed on my s2000 and although i cant be certain its not a placebo effect but the car feels much more put together, like a new car feeling
Come to Capt Bradford jdm masters and you learn something new everyday 👌👌👌👌
This is some awesome content! I hope that you'll get enough positive feedback and up votes from the rest of your viewers to keep more of this technical content coming our way in the future.
While watching the video, my first thought was that if the manufacturer was aware of the large tolerances at play when mounting the subframe to the unibody (and they surely are aware as those tolerances are needed for the sake of easing the task of fitting the two together on the assembly line), why didn't they either mold the subframe with small riser so that it was "keyed" to align with a specific cutout manufactured into the unibody, or alternatively and more appropriately, simply cast a conical shaped upright collar into the subframe itself around the opening that the bolt fits through. This would allow a large enough amount of tolerance at the top of the collar molded into the subframe to begin mating the subframe to the holes in the unibody. But the bottom of the collar molded into the subframe could the designed such that it's outer diameter would match up with the inner diameter of the hole in the unibody so that it would auto-align to perfection with zero tolerance during assembly when the bolts attaching the subframe to the body were tightened. (Much like a hydraulic fitting works when tightened.)
As far as the difference in feel goes after the rigid collar has been installed, I'm inclined to think that any difference felt while encountering imperfections in the road surface would have more to do with the elimination of any potential horizontal play between the unibody and the subframe itself (eliminated with the introduction of the rigid collar) than it would with the exact centering of the subframe mounting point in relationship to the mounting holes in the unibody. Purely a guess on my part of course, but definitely interesting to think about.
Thanks very much for putting this one together - great video!
Wow, Spoon working on an R34. This is my first time seeing it.
I would like to purchase one of those nobori flags....forgot to and couldn't get to tokyo during covid
Can this be installed in ANY car?
all fun and games until you see how much these washers cost 🤣🤣
I thought they looked interesting, until I saw the price for what amounted to like you said a washer lol
Magic collar makes a complete front and rear kit for roughly the same price as just the front from spoon.
@@tayvonrose2528 not all heroes wear capes, thanks dude, going to check them out
There are some other companies doing the same thing for cheaper.
I have basically the same thing branded as "Stiff Ring" fitted in my car.
But then again, I dont feel much after installing. Most probably because I was installing it on a stock car with stock suspension.
@@nutz748 yea, probably it works for the car that has changed the suspension
It's very fascinating how serious japanese tuners take care of such details and wants to improve every aspect of the cars.
I love your content, man. Keep going. Greetings from Argentina.
So are these used once and thrown out after dropping subframe again ? Or can we reuse collars again?
I don't think western mechanics spend as much time making sure the subframe is bolted up evenly and slowly, they'll just whack them in and get on with the next job 😓
oh i think its the same pretty much everywhere except really specialized workshops.. and... well, Japan.
Does the copper paste application have anything to do with preventing galvanic action between dissimilar metals?
This man is giving us knowledge and content during this pandemic. Thank you and stay safe.
Underrated comment.
What a beast of a car.
Heres what I dont understand, you have an entire team of professional mechanics meticulously installing these Rigid Collars. How can 1 person do this by themselves? If its not even presented in this way, the consumer base you present too is extremely limited in their installation options. Here in the States, there are no dedicated shops that will do a job like this correctly. If you can show a video of 1 man doing this installation by themselves, it would be better, instead of an entire team.
I'm going to be the skeptic here. You are fitting the parts onto a R34 GTR which is fully bushed on all 4 corners of the subframe. The subframe maybe centered and clearance is reduced, but the suspension pickup points are still mounted on an object that's secured to the car via rubber bushings. I'm not saying that the collar doesn't work but you are still putting them in the center of a bushing which is going to move whichever way the force is coming in.
On a car designed as such, putting on cheap and cheerful GK tech bushing sandwich plates that basically cancels out the bushing function will be much more noticeable when it comes to suspension reaction on the road.
Automotive engineer here and I agree. Honestly, I'm surprised Spoon sports is pushing out such a useless product like this. Literally the only thing this does is centres the subframe on the body when the bolts are tightened, that's it. Your typical M10 or M12 subframe bolt torqued to standard specs of around 70-100 ft lbs will produce around 10,000 lbs of clamping force. Once the subframe is torqued to the unibody, it won't move under any circumstances. And the minimal change in location of suspension pickup points due to misalignment is pretty much negligible, and not something you'll feel in any road car given all the compliances due to all the rubber.
I hear you both, but then what are the people in the comments who've done this and the JDM Masters guys reacting to? All placebo? What about the small but clear differences in motion captured in the "before" and "after" sequences? I think "slight" and "subtle" is the reality of it.
Thumbs up for Capt Brad but thumbs down for what Japonic said about paying for the whole speedo but only using a quarter, that feels so entitled and immature, hope thats just a dry joke.
Obviously it's a joke.
JDM Masters Am glad sir. His always been great otherwise!
hey guys, great video like always, was wondering if you guys could review the Subaru legacy GT-B/B4 or the Mitsubishi VR4/Legnum! :)
BMW and Audi's have large dowel pins on the body of the frame where the subframe bolts up to.
Car manufacturers' constraint obviously. Why are we paying to rectify manufacturers' issue? Aren't manufacturers to address the issue? Btw, cars are 2mm taller after installing the collars. LOL
Technically, this collar also doing a body lift with a specialized washer. How many mm are gained in ride height? But I totally agree it is designed to center the subframe and body.
Your wrong. Because most torque on chassis bolts are 100+ ft lbs. It will crush the washer part. The crital part is the collar that centers the bolt. I've done this job twice at home. Easy peezy
21:56 I bought a car with these collars installed, I would have to agree 100% what you guys say here. That is the most accurate way to describe how it feels with these installed.
This is kind of bull crap because if you take it to be installed. You are expected to fell it (yeah it feels stiffer). I know your lieing but it's OK...
You have to install this on there car without them knowing it... if they don't say anything about it. Then you know what this stuff is bull crap gimmick stuff...
Soft things give out fast...
JDM masters. Got a question. If install this collar do i still need tower bars? Does tower bars really help also?
Rigid collars & a strut bar turned my car from Rolls Royce to an ariel atom.. shit is great for handling
I've known about rigid collars and have been thinking about getting it for my car. Had no idea spoon made them for non hondas though, very cool
I love when captain points at the camara lol
Man, never heard of this. Makes a lot of sense. Appreciate the heads up. And at the right time too, as I’m piecing together suspension parts for my GS. Hopeful they make them for this older Lexus
It's very nice upgrade for cars, small but effective.
I have the rigid collars in my AP2 👍🏾
Had these fitted to my 32 in Japan after the review from Speedhunters a while ago. Very good upgrade.
You should take it at daikoku futo bumps
Ngl that spoiler is a bit to high for my taste.
He said it was blocking his view on the rear view mirror so he added a part to raise it.
So much improvement with mine!!
9:17 I bought a whole speedometer I'm gonna use the whole speedometer.
Nismo with the 300km/h cluster, "I have this product you might be interested in"
I have 320km cluster installed 😅
Lol use it all!
In 800 meters, take the interchange on the left.
useless junk. I put it on my car and it does nothing
dude this shit isnt arp thas so dissapointing cost more then engine studs cmon
Why car companies do not put like this to their cars?
This product is second in dubious efficacy only to the Yamaha Performance Damper but I'm glad to finally see a solid review on it. Interested in fitting a set to my car to see if there's any improvement.
Do Spoon regularly do installations like this or did they make a special allowance for you all? I'm always nervous about just going into famous or high-end shops and expecting to have work done.
there is only one way to find out ;-)
You can come with every car to the Spoon Type One shop to get the Rigid Collar installed. They did R34 GT-R Skylines before, so they have the experience.
@@nfspeedy2 Good to know, thanks. I have a rather strange S15 Silvia with an R33 subframe in the front but the rear is mostly stock so I'd expect they could deal with it. I've been avoiding Tokyo (I live in Ibaraki) because of covid but it doesn't look like too much of a post-apocalyptic wasteland in your video so I'll try and contact them sometime.
hum .... Okachan welded my S15 subframe .... magic happened.... but took 3 months to understand the positives over the negative.... can not turn back now after 12 month , to the day ..... talk about timing of this video.... well done Ken.... ( my only question - what about the subframe bushes there is still movement / flex in the bush so still allowing movement , or am i missing something here )
for 42000 yen I'm not sure they are worth it on the s15.
s15melb , don’t think it would make much of difference if it’s solid welded from memory the bolts on the S15 are welded to the body and if you have solid mounts already it’s more or less centered as fuck 😂
@09:23-09:29 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 good point!!!
That part jumped right out at me as well.
Bugünleri görmek beni çok sevindirdi Faruk abi. Allah yürü ya kulum dediklerinden eylesin inşallah !
Its very impressive to see these days had come. Im really happy to see growth in this channel. I hope you guys will succeed more.
It’s the smiles shows the difference bro
LOVE how the host either smokes a ton of cigarettes or joints.
@gilbert martinez I wasn't going to put him on blast but he's got the infamous smoker stains on his front teeth lol. I'm a bong smoker so I get the resin ring around the lips but when I switched to joints for a while the same thing happened to me hehehe.
@gilbert martinez No trolling intended, besides being a stoner I also smoke like a chimney lol. Cheers.
Clearly you've never been to Japan
They sell in America?
Gotta get a set for my EK
Skyline GT-R Rigid collar. i don't know spoon do that for other car maker..
it just rigid collar.. it can fit anything on the same size..
In his own channel japonic actually said that they make these colars for almost every other japan cars .
@@campkira oh i see.
@@reshosho9931 Really.
Spoon parts on a Nissan, interesting.
That Gtr color 💙
Hey JDM Masters!
Please do an Episode on the Mitsubishi GTO Twin Turbo (1996 - 1999) and the Mitsubishi FTO Version R in Manual (1997 - 2000)!
Please do not overlook these two Japanese underrated Gems.
so much rubbish waste of time
I’m like the Canadian version of you guys👨🏻🔧 ...just with no $$$$ 😪
JDM numbawan!
They noticed the difference over a rubber chunk, imagine the handling charectoristic differences on a racing circuit driving hard...
I'm sorry but not the kind o expense i would spend on my own 34, i truly don't believe makes ay difference on a heavy car like the 34. lets face it even from you guys reactions we can tell you not really convinced. i'm actually surprised spoon agreed on to do this video!
I've installed on my Chevrolet Spark (M400 generation) I'm sorry but mine are not Spoon... Mine are from Torcon. There is a night and day difference more stable
If that is really works for real, so why car engeneers and car company not adding and installing that magic colar🤔🤔 just wondering why?
I guess it's becuase the body no longer moves andhaves compliance and the shocks and bushings actually do more work now in absorbing nvh
Bu video yu tabi ki Faruk @japonic editlemiş
thanks for the video, great precision! I'm wondering how these would work on a minivan like the Honda Odyssey? I have a 2020 Odyssey RC1 and always wondering how I can improve ride comfort and further reduce noise.
What it does as the rigidcollar website Says : Rigid Collars cure chassis movement, improve handling, reduce road noise, reduce vibration, improve braking and make the car safer in an accident.
I binge watched all your videos during quarantine, your channel was the best RUclips find, keep up your awesome work!
Please do a review on Capt’s EK9 Type R
I was wondering what these collars were for. Saw they made them for the MR2, but couldn't figure out what they were. Thanks for the video.
Ken, awesome job!!! Let's see you do some type-a stuff!!! 👍🏾 Japonic I'm so envious because that is my dream car😋 ,but I'm glad you have it and are doing these awesome reviews!!
That mechanic must hate you sticking in the camera and your head in while he's trying to work
seems like placebo effect
So I’m wondering if it would work with aftermarket bushings or would even have an effect? I would think it would initially fit, however sometimes they are built differently. Hmm🤔
Is he installing the collar with the lip facing down into the sub frame. Wouldn’t the lip go into the body for alignment. It seems upside down. @19:23