Is Harley’s ADV Better than BMW’s Cruiser? R1250GS vs Pan America & R18 vs Softail Slim | CTXP
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- Опубликовано: 27 авг 2021
- Is Harley’s ADV Better than BMW’s Cruiser? R1250GS vs Pan America & R18 vs Softail Slim | Common Tread XP
Check out Zack’s Article about these two bikes on Common Tread: rvz.la/3gE7M0A
If imitation is the sincerest form of flattery BMW and Harley-Davidson are clearly trying to compliment each other to death. But, which company does it better? Is the Harley-Davidson Pan America a better ADV than the BMW R 18 is a cruiser? Take a deep dive with the CTXP team as they jump into two comparisons at once.
Ari’s gag gear:
LS2 Bagger Murica Eagle Helmet: rvz.la/38maovv
Street & Steel 2nd Amendment Leather Vest: rvz.la/3sT15wu
Street & Steel Richmond Chaps: rvz.la/3sReRQv
TCX X-Blend WP Boots: rvz.la/2WqeRe2
Street & Steel Sawed Off Fingerless Gloves: rvz.la/3sQPaiM
Ari’s street gear:
Arai Classic-V Groovy Helmet: rvz.la/38liPHG
Roland Sands Ronin Leather Jacket: rvz.la/3mElgNH
Pando Moto Mark Cargo Pants: rvz.la/3Dhp3X8
TCX X-Blend WP Boots: rvz.la/2WqeRe2
REV'IT! Sand 4 Gloves: rvz.la/3kAdSAx
Ari’s ADV gear:
Scorpion EXO-AT950 Tucson Sand Helmet: rvz.la/38kIjVy
Klim Badlands Pro Jacket: rvz.la/3ksOY5L
Klim Badlands Pro Pants: rvz.la/2Wv5QAN
Forma Adventure Boots: rvz.la/3DsBEXQ
REV'IT! Sand 4 Gloves: rvz.la/3kAdSAx
Zack’s gag gear:
Shark EVO One 2 Helmet: rvz.la/38j5u2n
Scorpion EXO Optima Jacket: rvz.la/3jn8qBz
Sedici Garda Waterproof Pants: rvz.la/3znI4oE
Alpinestars Corozal Adventure Drystar Boots: rvz.la/3DziGie
REV'IT! Sand 4 Gloves: rvz.la/3kAdSAx
Zack’s street gear:
Shoei J·O Sequel Helmet: rvz.la/3zruFvD
Merlin Odell Air Jacket: rvz.la/3DkLtqJ
Klim K Forty 2 Jeans: rvz.la/3ynhHhk
Alpinestars J-Cult Shoes: rvz.la/3kyBC7N
REV'IT! Sand 4 Gloves: rvz.la/3kAdSAx 
Авто/Мото
Read more about these bikes on Common Tread! rvz.la/3gFjvfl
Pan America Daily Rider please ?
Hoping that one of the next videos will have something to do with the new ktm 1290…?
Your statement is so wrong, even narrow minded and pro-HD. This model BMW excist since approx 1920, so 100 years. BMW copy nothing. Understand that HD is the copy company that invented... nothing. Wondering if you gona react to my comment and proof me wrong.
Harley has used Brembo brakes for a number of years now, they just have the HD bar and shield on them instead of the circle B, but they are indeed made by Brembo for Harley.
@@firefighter1c57 The list with parts is endless. Callipers are connected to the forks, forks made in... Japan. Check the inner area, "Made in Japan." And then, there is the V-Rod.
The stereotyped outfits in the intro ... hilarious.
Would have only been better had Zack been standing while riding and yelling he went to Rawhide School.
I bought a pan am. When I got into the community I laughed at how many people wanted highway pegs. You can take the boy out of the country but you can’t take the country out of the boy.
That's the best part!
The GS rider should have had a white Shoei modular helmet and a faded Aerostich one piece suit on with Daytona boots on.
@@mocioclistu Nonsense. BMW riders wear Schuberth Modulars!
That opening is FortNine level. Congratulations!
I love this video so far. But it does feel like they are directly copying FortNine. But that's perfectly ok! I know they are friends with Ryan at FortNine and his work is the very best, so they should copy it.
@@Ritalie revzilla owns fortnine...
@@s2006107 yes but Revzilla has not nearly matched Ryan F9's cinematic marvels just yet, but this video is quite comparable.
Ryan F9 is the benchmark across the globe.
Exactly what I thought
Wow, a motorcycle comparison review that actually comes to a conclusion? I must be dreaming..
At the very end, they all want to ride the 1250 GSA.
I was a bit concerned that Zack and Ari would lose creative freedom when they made the move to revzilla but I've been very impressed with the originality of the content recently. And the production value is top notch!👌 Nice work boys
I think the reason why the move a lot between companies is that they don't want to be controlled lol
These two are the best, I will follow them wherever they go.
Where were they before?
@@DG_TX They used to be with Motorcyclist Magazine. I’d definitely check out what they did over there, really great stuff too.
I legit lost it when Ari had his legs out on the highway bars during the intro! Well done, sir!
Same. That was hilarious.
@@charged And accurately nailed the "stereotype". ;)
The REAL question is: Did Common Tread do a better Fortnine or did Fortnine do a better Zak & Ari? - - - Both are great 👍🏽
Ryan F9 has been on "High Side Low Side" a couple of times now, and the last time he even said that he would really love to do something with Ari and Zack. Maybe we'll get a CTXP with him in the near future?
@@otecron I hope so, that would be a great trio to see together
@@otecron It'd be cool to see them film something together and then each put out their own episodes. I like CTXP. I like Fortnine. But they both have pretty distinct styles. Be fun to see what they come up with from the same material.
@@eclipsegfxable If Zack and Ari are your Clarkson, and RyanF9 is your May, I'd vote MOTOBOB is your Hammond. In my opinion, I'd put that as my peak moto video-journalism squad if I could develop a show. ZA have the experience and wit, F9 the thoughtfulness and technicality, and MB the pleasure of the art.
I laughed so hard when Ryan taped demolished helmet and claimed it damaged to RevZilla!!!! :D
We as viewers are really blessed with all of them.
I'm looking for an ADV next year, and frankly the Pan America is probably what I'm getting next. The very fact that it drops its height as you stop is HUGE for a short rider like me. ADVs were previously completely inaccessible to me. Now there's one right there.
Hope HD doesn't kill it off by then.
The Pan Am last year was Harleys second most popular bike. Its not going anywhere.
The pan America is one of my favorite ADV bikes. It and the Africa twin by Honda are the two bikes that I want the most lol. The BMW GS is up there, but the brand reputation kinda scares me
These two are as iconic as those legendary bikes. The editing, the talk, the script, their charisma and how they handle any bike they touch is just extraordinary. Simply amazing dudes
Definetly a peculair pair
So good. The editing, camera, drone work, and story telling is so precise. Even
the fake tattoos on Ari's arms. I love this series.
Onboard mics quality is such a contrast to all these good points though
This was one of my favorite videos of all time. I wish it was longer. It was so well edited, and really brought up a lot of important points. I wish they would make another video like this, but make it at least 30 min long.
The music was great as well. Upbeat and fun.
Precise? The BMW is just a BMW and don't try to be a HD. That model excist since the 1920's
The way Zack crawled off the BMW like a 90 year old man 😅🤣😅
Ok the off-road scenes, the skill levels of these 2 guys, hands down the best. Both bikes look like tiny dirt bikes being thrown about with ridiculous ease. U guys really take it to another level.
Are you saying this is not how the average GS rider does on the way to their coffee shop?
Can you please give us an "extended edition" of these videos, where you interview riders, go into technical breakdowns, show engine designs, engine history, sales figures, etc? This video was so awesome! I didn't want it to end. I think most people would love to have a longer version of this. Maybe you could break it up into multiple parts?
“Come on, comfort is for communists.” 🤣😂
Communists would disagree with that assessment... 😅
@ Not modern day communism in California. Everything should be lazy for them. Sit back and let others take care of you instead of go getting it yourself.
Gotta say, that's the one thing that bugged me here. Sure, comfort is subjective, and I haven't ridden the Slim...but I have ridden a lot of different bikes a lot of miles, and aside from a Gold Wing, the most comfortable I've been on any of them after a really long day was on a feet-out, sit-on-your-tailbone Harley Fat Bob (with a stock seat, no less). There's a reason people sit on couches to watch hours of TV.
That's a FortNine type line right there, eh?
@@pechorin1975 But the couch doesn't move at 70mph using you as a sail trying to go the opposite direction. And yes you can put a big oldman style windshield on it, but then you suffocate in a hot day behind it. Also a couch has a full size back rest to lean on. Without it and without the oldman windshield, feet forward cruisers are some of the most uncomfortable bikes for long distance ever.
I'm a BMW owner and took the Pan America out on two demo rides and was honestly impressed.
What she offers is great, just sad that's it's ugly AF.
@@thierryfaquet7405 A GS is just as ugly, all adventure bikes are
@@ekimandersom4478 Not the Africa Twin imo
@@oliviersavard8676
Yes the AT is nice looking as adventure bikes go, so is the Yamaha Super Tenere 1200.
Yes, but the GS still handles its weight like it weighs half as much. The low boxer engine just makes it so much better to ride IMO. The Pan America feels as heavy as it is. But still not as bad as a Triumph Explorer. The Triumph feels like it weighs as much as both of them put together.
What's interesting to me is the volume of riders I know who have been ecstatic about the new Pan-America from HD, the adjustable ride height at stops isn't just friendly to shorter riders but it lends itself to being a less accident prone bike on the dirt (think going to put your foot down in a trail or something and finding there's no ground beneath you). It's also easier for older riders to throw a leg over and for passengers to climb on the rear seat, say what you will about HD but they know their market.
As a fan of Harley, BMW and experimental aircraft, the first scene in front of EAA chapter 1 hangar is about the perfect image
You must really hate water...
Totally agree, chapter one and the Stits hangar
Not even through the whole thing, but that’s the best opening to date.
"It's Torque that makes the World go around." - Ari Henning, 2021
I ride a f800gs and my friend rides a 1999 gsxr750 srad both make the same torque but gs at 5,750 gsxr at 11,200. Roll on I leave him for dead if he is not up in the high rpm.
@@chrishart8548 Yes, but your friend have option to downshift and that way increase the torque on the drive wheel, and your options are limited by the power your motor is capable to produce. I am sure you can leave him if he doesn't downshift and continue to drive in the lower rpm, but it's the same like saying that you can outrun Ferrari with your Toyota corolla if the Ferrari is not running.
@@ivicastanic3605 all that downshifting means you really have be on the ball. Plenty of people on you tube trying to race and not realising they need to downshift 3 times and get right up near the redlide if they want to access their power. No torque on a 600/4 or 750/4 around 5k. If tuned for 130hp.
@@chrishart8548 I can agree on that, but one liter sports bike is still different than 600 or 750.
@@ivicastanic3605 1 litre sports bikes are a heck of a lot better and more usable on the road than a 600/750. Not about going fast but they have a reasonably bit of midrange to use.
I have not riden the R 18 yet, but I can tell you, when you see it in real life, it's just beautiful! Everything on this bike looks like a piece of art. The leavers for example, look like sculpted metal. I literally couldn't find a single peace of plastic on this bike. Everything that is supposed to be metal, was metal. I seriously was stunned by the beauty of this bike.
It is for shure, I just have a complaint the seating position, because of the heads you will never have the seating position of a Harley or Indian.
I'm 6' and while the R18 may be gig but it lacks legroom unless you're like Cotton from "King of the Hill"
in the end its a bike not jewelry.Looks get old if it can't function.
@@rubensahak9178 Something beautiful never gets old. That's why people are still buying Triumph Bonnevilles, classic Harleys and Royal Einfelds,...even if the technology is outdated. Those bikes will always be desired. In thirty years from now, all this edgy, modern bikes that look like insects, will seem to us like the bikes from the 90s seem to us today. Their design is nothing but temporary fashion. If you ride a bike from the 90's, "you're just riding an cheap used bike", but if you ride an Bonneville, "you're riding an classic". The BMW is a beautiful bike and she always will be,...she functions perfectly and reasonably fine. Are there bikes, that do certain things better? Sure, but that's true for every bike like this. To say that it can't function is nothing but pure ignorance and I really don't think that I can take it serious.
"Everything that is supposed to be metal, was metal." Great point. My Mercedes E320 door handle fell off one day. Chromed plastic. I'm totally over Mercedes.
I'd love to see Harley innovate more, especially being young and watching my dad ride Harleys all my life. But if I'm going to have an ADV bike, I'll just save my money and buy a Honda CT because, you know, if I break down in a remote part of Asia, I'll be almost literally stumbling over spare parts.......
Do you live in Asia?
@@Ebbeebbeee Chad yes
wise choice
The comparison I didn't know I needed. Good show chaps.
Harley has never had anything like an adventure bike in the lineup.
*incredulous Buell Ulysses noises*
What was the WWII WLA? It is very interesting that Harley’s first attempt at an all terrain military motorcycle was a boxer twin copy of the R75. They produced only a few of them and developed the WLA-the Liberator! So these two companies have a much longer history of copying each other and competition which includes an actual war.
Having owned Buell's in the past, HD doesn't recognize them as existing.
Then again, Buell doesn't recognize Buell as existing.
@@JoshuaTootell sad. I rode my Uly off-road. No issues. But you had to be willing to do work on them yourself and deal with their quirks.
@@JJosephS1 For so far i know, the only copy-company is HD. The V twin, the mono shock, fairing, springer, ... nothing invented by HD
@@corneilcorneil Such a myopic prejudiced and void answer. The Japanese copied American single cylinders and British parallel twins to this day. The Italians as well. When you allow yourself to be guided by knee-jerk hatred, you come away looking really stupid.
This review video is simply another RevZilla masterpiece. These CTXP videos are so good that I have to share them with my family and friends, none of whom have any (even slight) interest in Motorcycling. They love these too. Fantastic.... you guys need an Oscar!!
Spot on! Crisp storytelling and amazing visuals. Kudos to the whole team!
Good to see you both doing what you’re known for… funny but very informative videos and bike comparisons… I loved that intro sequence 😂
Holy crap, I was missing y'all pretty bad so I have been rewatching your uploads lately. Oh and by lately I mean I just finished watching the adventure bikes and Christmas trees adventure video this morning!
When these two are on the screen, I drop everything I’m doing and watch them. So entertaining, and informative!
The fact that you filmed part of this in front of Ray Stits’ hangar (RIP) is pretty awesome for me.
Chain drive on a premium heavyweight (adventure) Touring bike, though? Someone gave up in the final dash... The video reminds me of the classic Reese peanutbutter cup ad - You got Harley on my BMW! You got BMW on my Harley!
Harley sure is raising the bar of their line up for 2021, hope you can review the new sportster s
@@jgcapers3860 its the v rod's engine which is water cooled. it has a huge radiator on it
@@danielblack8497 there is literally no parts from the v rod. It’s built from the ground up
@@wasteofusername1 the v rods engine is called the revolution, this engine is the revolution max. it is an updated and tweaked with vrod engine
@@danielblack8497 From what I have read, it has similarities but its still a ground up design.
You two dudes are a riot and a pleasure to watch 100% of the time. Keep up the great work!
I'm watching this video for the sixth time and I am still amazed how good this vid is produced! This video should've been an hour long.
Also the Pan Am has become NA best selling ADV! Good on HD, hope they'll refine the bike and make it even better!
Having owned big GSs for 15 years and dealing with absurdly expensive repairs and poor engineering/durability. I'd give the Harley a chance if I was to buy another big adventure bike. Great video!
I live in a large metropolitan city, and just to get to the BMW moto dept you have to go to a spooky tower in the back of the building in a dodgy part of town that is not easy to get to. Not exactly inspiring.
Harley repairs are not exactly cheap or out of the ordinary
Yes, what could go wrong on a first year small volume american bike packed with electronics and adjustable suspension height.
@@chamade166 you nailed it! I bet your local Harley dealer can’t even diagnose it right.
You don't have any clue about HD maintenance 😂
Outstanding discussion. I love my HD Pan Am but will always give props to the Beamer. Thanks for this awesome video!
Great video, love the camera and drone work. Honest review for each bike! Keep the videos coming!!!!!!
Great work. Good to see you both back together again, as the chemistry works. I have owned 3 GS’s and no Harleys and I have to agree HD have made a pretty impressive ADV bike, genuinely much better than I thought it was going to be. Would I swap it for my GS, NO! However it’s certainly got my attention! Well done HD.
Wow Ari’s voice is AMAZING. Both these guys have a real gift for communicating with their audience...
That intro is just EPIC! Perfectly selected outfits for ES/US riders.
I love this video, I love the bikes, the comparison, the format, everything. It’s interesting, different and engaging. Just like when you did the food delivery on the Rocket, again a different interesting look at bikes. Always look forward to seeing new videos, thanks guys.
Fun, informative and excellent production value. Thanks, Revzilla, Zack and Ari for setting THE bar.
I've owned many motorcycles of all kinds over the years, but have stayed mostly clear of ADVs simply because of ergonomics (i.e., I'm short). I think the Pan America is going to open up ADVs to a bunch more riders (including myself, since I just recently bought one).
You realize you can set r1250gs to "asian height" with lower seat and suspension right?
@@PrinzAquatic true, but then you also lose ground clearance while the pan am lifts you up once you start moving.
Downside of that is the chances of falling over when coming to a quick stop because you can't properly reach the ground.
The lower weight of the pan am might also be a selling point when being short
Might be the best motorcycle review video I have ever seen. I do disagree with some of your R18 comments after owning one. Your performance gripes about the R18 miss the point you made earlier that cruisers are not about performance. I struggle with comfort on a foot forward harley at 6'3" and the R18 solves the problem for me and actually feels roomier for my feet and legs. So, it works for me.
Being 6'3 myself, I did wonder where to put my long legs on an R18...
Don't you feel cramped after a while?
I'd absolutely need highway pegs for the longer runs.
Other than that, I love going down in corners and, whil sparks might be cool the first 5 times, it would quickly get boring to replace the floorboards every year.
Congratulations on making such a great video from both a production standpoint as well as content 👏
Please keep making videos with these two geniuses! Love the content! Eagerly waiting for the next one!
I love your take on this! So many others are just doing PanAmerican reviews - love your approach and humor!
I got to demo the R18 at work for the weekend. Its a very good bike, great power and torque down low, without falling on its face higher up in rev range....which is only about 6K but thats pretty high for a 1.8L boxer. Running around 2200rpm, extremely smooth and refined, going up to about 3000, there is just the tiniest bit of buzz, but its basically unnoticeable. Around 1800, it has a shake to say, but its again, nice and mechanical feeling. Another thing while cruising around the 2-3K rpm, you can hear the rods and valves just ticking away, atleast with the stock pipes. Stock pipes sound good too, not loud, but grunty and a bit aggressive when opened up, gentle riding around its quiet and in the background. Almost zero heat from those big piston housings, as the heat can escape directly upward and into the air. Instead of a V-twin, with heat going up, hitting the tank, and then sidewards to your legs. The brakes were fine for me, very progressive linked system, with gentle pressure you barely slow down, and when really gripping, it does come to a stop rather nicely.
(edit) I will add, I think of the R18 as the cruiser to get noticed. It has massive road presence, many a driver and rider stared hard at the bike while riding around.
Seriously well done video guys! Props to HD for shooting their shot on the Pan Am! I know I very much want to try one out.
As Usual, Another Brilliant show to watch & the comedic value is just awesome. Thanks to all involved. Zack, Ari always a great pleasure to see you guys put your take on some stuff we are all interested in. Motorbikes 🏍
Masterpiece in story telling. Well done revzilla team!
This was a great video, well done guys!
I absolutely love the combo of Zack and Ari. You can tell they've been friends for ages and every video with the two of them is content I want to watch.
such an underrated show. well-done as always!
a rollout difference in 6th gear is more about gearing and peak power than the old torque vs hp debate
It is definitely a gearing issue. Available power is torque x RPM. Looking at published third-party dyno charts, the BMW's peak power is roughly 117hp at 7540rpm. The Pan Am is designed to produce more peak power, but at higher engine speeds (about 135hp but at 9200rpm). The Pan Am would benefit much more from a downshift or two to put it closer to peak power.
They did skim over the facts here. Lighter and more powerful but slower doesn't make sense. From the rollon dyno to the end of the video, all you hear is how slow HD is. I'm no HD fanboy but it seemed like HD should have won.
But at the end of the day the GS still pulls better than the Harley in a highway overtake situation
@@Daniel-dj7fh They were close (Rider mag got the opposite result). Nevertheless, top gear roll is not a useful metric in an era of high-revving engines. Why buy an expensive motorcycle then use less than half it's power when a downshift or two would dramatically increase performance? I suspect that an Africa Twin DCT (despite being significantly less powerful overall) would beat both of these in a roll-on test since it would automatically downshift.
@@Daniel-dj7fh Unless you downshift
That intro was truly funny! I love that HD is getting creative and trying save themselves! I hope they continue and succeed in this endeavor !!!
Very very much enjoyed that review!! The camera work is awesome 🙏 thank you
As usual, RevZilla rocked out the video!! Great stuff, cheers guys!!
Entertaining and informative. Nicely done guys.
One thing you can say about the R18 though, at 4:58 even in a small reflection - it is distinctly recognizable
Great storytelling, informative, and the transitions were dope!
MOAR!!!!!!!!!!
Come on, I got to have my dose of Common Tread more often!
This is so GOOD!
Mate. You guys smashed it with this episode. Loved every minute of it!!! Those transitions. 👌
"Hogwash" into Hog wash. Genius.
Just a few years years ago I would have never expected a "Harley’s ADV Better than BMW’s Cruiser" video to ever be made.
Great video Guys, well done. Never owned a Harley in 49 years of riding, but kudo's to Harley for making the effort to expand their range of bikes. I have ridden the PA, and it is a very good ADV bike, no doubt about it. Hopefully it will appeal to a lot of riders that prefer this type of bike over the cruiser's. Personally, the GS still does it for me, but hey, we all have our own preferences. Good job H-D.
Fantastic show, loved every minute of it! Cheers!
Fantastic production quality, one of your best videos yet. I like how Ari and Zach suited up like dorks for the adventure bike segment.
The only thing that could have made it better would be a ridiculous cameo by Spurgeon or Lemmy.
lemmy is gone
@@danielblack8497 which would be in keeping with the theme of it being a CAMEO. Lemme said himself he was leaving Revzilla but would always be around.
@@danielblack8497 that's why I called it a cameo.
The production value has clearly gone up. Mia that with our two most awesome presenters, and what a great combo! Fantastic video!
Legitimately enjoy no one on the internet more than Ari & Zack with all their shenanigans. The greatest content. Never stop guys. No matter who you post videos thru, stick together and keep doing what you guys do best.👍🏼
The production value on is fantastic! Zack and Ari are great as usual. 10/10 great video.
"Horsepower sells bikes, but torque is what wins races" I'd say in terms of performance, the Pan America actually competes more with the KTM 1290 SAS. I think most folks compare it to the GS simply because that's the gold standard for the segment, and more of a household name.
This fucking quote actually hurts my brain.
Overall a good video, but the roll-on test is funny at best. Yes, the BMW has more low-end torque, but the PA is significantly faster overall. Why not show what happens when you do the roll-on in 4th gear? Or from a stop?
BMW might not nail it the first time like every piece of engineering in the world but they do have an established reputation of refining their product almost to the point of perfection.
Excellent video concept and well-produced - great work.
Glad to see the R1200C getting more screen time. Love mine, and now I'm curious how it stacks up against the R18.
Not well, IMHO. I went for one of the test ride days ... it's a monstrous beast with none of the delicacy of the C that I rode there.
Your bike was the prototype to the R18. I still love and ride my R1200C. In fact I bought it back from the insurance company after it crashed and was declared a total loss. This was my first BMW and was the main reason why I ditched my Harley. Thank you Bavaria!!!!!!
I rode the R1200C on a weekend trip and it was lovely. So comfortable. I guess it's one reason I was happy to purchase the R18. The R18 is much heavier, lower centre of gravity, harder to ride but the tech and power delivery are a step up - and for me, better than the stock Harley Ultra Limited. My wife and two-up test road a series of tour bikes over a month and settled on the R18 TC. Pound for pound(pun intended) it was a great balance of performance, tech and comfort. Plus it's gorgeous.
I think its pretty crazy that the Pan Am came out of the gate swinging as hard as it does at BMW. The ride height adjustment tickles me pink and I would be damned if that doesn't become common place in the next 5 years.
Harley is drowning, this is last scream to younger generation, but with this price tag for sure it is going to be last neil to the coffin
@@rosandpl Harley earned $163M in net income in the last quarter (3Q2021) on sales of about $1.4B, which was about 17% over prior year. 85% of its sales come from motorcycles; 15% come from accessories, apparel, etc. Tales of Harley's imminent demise are simply incorrect.
@@rosandpl it’s definitely doing well, although some decisions aren’t the best, like separating livewire and still not upgrading it’s real world range to 200 miles. Somehow BMWs electric stuff shows real range in catalogs?
Harley should diversify a bit more and that’s it, they have lots of buyers in Europe.
Those who aren’t fans of Harley in the US just should stop bashing it,it’s in the best interest to have only good opinions about motorcycle brands.
As always great video Zach and Ari. Well done @revzilla
I like this a lot !
It’s good that they explain how hard these challenges are.
I would have liked to see a speed test from completely stopped to 75mph or something similar. Just looking at the Harley's HP and Torque specs its clear that it's engine is more rev happy than the beamer.
Racing should be done in the correct gear to access the power band for each motorcycle. Depending on gearing, one may be in a much more optimal spot to access power in 6th gear at 60. The other bike may be faster but just geared differently or require a higher RPM to access peak power. What they did is an absurd way to measure which is faster.
Eh, most people cruising on a long trip want to be able to just roll on to make a quick pass, not drop 2 gears, pass and then shift back into top gear.
My seat of the pants test... I own both the 1250 GSA and the 1250 Pan Am and ride them both regularly.... not sure why or how, but man, that Pan Am puts a serious smile on your face and that sport mode is just sick!
I own a GS and it sounds a lot like GS fans don't wanna accept that they have serious competition in the Pan America.
The overwhelming marketing distortion field around the importance of Harley’s history caused BMW’s homage to its own early cruisers to be seen as imitating Harley! Bonkers. Excellent video as always.
ehhhhhh... It's definitely leaning towards Harley with the whole long and low form and the forward controls. For sure not a Harley copycat like say a VTX1800 though.
@@devonriley110 Forward controls, on a boxer? Have a look at a 1940's BMW R12, or an R51 from the 50's, or R50 (or 60)/2 from the 1960's. That's where the R18 has it's roots. Not in Milwaukee.
@@darkiee69 Try again. All of those bikes were traditional standards. The R18 has more rake and a much lower relative seat height. As for the forward controls part that was a total brain fart on my part, not sure what I was thinking there.
Outstanding, one of the best videos of the year....well done!!!
Really enjoyed the comparisons. Thanks guys!
I guess it's time for a K1600GTL/Goldwing/RoadGlide comparison then. At least when it comes to product naming, BMW isn't even competing. 😊
14:44 wait, wait, wait! GS's transmission is smoother? There's absolutely nothing smooth about the transmission of a BMW GS! Are you saying that Panamerica's transmission is even less smooth? That's crazy! That's impossible! What do the Harley have for a transmission them? A bag of rocks?
Don't they boast "the clunk of confidence" in the HD marketing literature regarding the gearbox? I've read that somewhere in the past
@@MisterOcclusion That would just be first gear. The rest are solid but not usually clunks unless something is wrong.
This must be the best comparison ever. Good job guys in keeping something like this super fresh.
This was a fantastic video. Thank you for the quality content!!!!!
Imagine if that HD suspension packed a sad in the middle of nowhere 😬
Funny how everyone always forgets about the Ulysses when they say its Harley's first try at adventure bikes.
If you guys understood the difference between power and torque, you'd know that lower gearing gives the Beemer the torque advantage there. Keep going to 130 mph and at some point the HD will go flying by.
Engines make power. Gears turn it into a ratio of torque to speed AT THE REAR WHEEL. The *engine* torque is nothing but a calculation of the power at the rear wheel divided by the *engine* rpm and multiplied by a constant. It a calculation done by a dyno.
That was a lot of fun. Keep up the great work!
I really loved my BMW R 1200 GS and I miss having a ADV bike.
But I'm going to wait until Indian comes out with one and see how that goes.
Light and weak dual sport vs heavy and powerful ADV.
Which is better?
PS: How Dave is performing nowadays? Still a Ducati killer?
Voted best video of 2021... well at least from here guys... I restarted it 10 times... and watched it over... hilarious and great review... I love it
Thanks for sharing - very informative👍
Judging by BMW deep discounts on R18 and Harley can’t keep them in stock PA wins hands down.
“Art” isn’t a great MC
they should test these two bikes the real world way, the way a legit adventurer would be traveling. to remote places loaded down with lots of gear on trails barely fit for hiking let alone motorcycles. thats typically where you find the most popular dual sport, the KLR 650.
Should I feel embarrassed that the stereotypical BMW rider and I have the same jacket?
One thing I like about the Pan American over the BMW R1250gs is the engine is better protected and a bit narrower it looks to be. I have seen older versions of the bmw end up with engine damage when they came down hard on rocky ground to the point the bike was not rideable afterwards but it did not have bar work protecting it but even the new one comes with no bars. Adding bars then makes it even wider.
You guys are hilarious! Congrats to you and all the people behind the scene for this quality content you always provide!
Top gear roll-on does not equate to “faster”.
I’m a longtime GS rider (since 2002) and recently bought a Pan America after a surprising test ride. The GS does have more torque, especially at low rpm, but the Pan America will walk a 1250GS when ridden at 100%. Trust me, it’s a quicker bike than the GS.
How good is the Pan America? Well it’s good enough to convince a die-hard GS rider to buy a first H-D.
The suspension (on the S) is near perfect. It isn’t quite as smooth a ride as the GS, but it doesn’t have the vague front end feel that has plagued telever-equipped GS’s since day one. The H-D transmission is slick, Honda like and better than any GS I’ve ever owned. It doesn’t have a quick shifter, which is the only explanation of why they said it was better.
They rigged that race by forcing the bikes to run at low rpm.
They tested torque, by being in 6th gear... To show that the BMW engine is not significally slower, just because of the much lower HP numbers. Obviously everyone can come to the logical conclusion that the PanAm is faster than the GS, since it has 10% more HP.
@@DennisEldrup this
Great Video Guys! Thx!!
Can you make one of the new Bmw
S 1000 XR?
Great video and very entertaining. Nonetheless, I absolutely love my R18. It wouldn't matter if you said the Softail Slim was a million times better in every way, It's not my cup of tea. I think that anyone considering an R18 should take this video with a grain of salt and try the bike out. The rear suspension is easily adjustable. A simple adjustment of the brake lever dial made my brakes feel way better. I don't have problems with pegs scraping. It's surprisingly agile. It's a cruiser and it's gorgeous. It feels and looks so well built. If I want to rip through corners I'll take one of my sportbikes out. If I want to feel like I'm in a classic novel or movie I take the R18. It's more than just a means of transportation. I find myself making excuses to ride it. I'm 5'9" and it fits perfectly. If I was 6' or taller I may not find it as comfortable, I don't know just a guess.