Yeah shaft is great until the seals start leaking. Then it's a Yoooj mess and a PIA to fix. Also: Weight. Therefore for me it's a tie. I don't mind chain maintenance but can enjoy a shaft for a road focused bike.
@@trailrider1980 K1200S owner, 15 year old bike and 0 problems. I change the shaft fluid every 30.000 km’s. I ride a Panigale V4 as well, but wanted a shaft drive bike for long distance touring. Big fan of shaft drive here.
Lol, I totally see your point. But when you live in a state like Nevada. Riding a thumper at 80mph down a dirt for 300miles not only isn't an option. It's miserable. They definitely have their place. And I prefer to bring my Starbucks and Aeropress with me. Lol 😆
I love my orange Pan Am, the Blue is really cool too, but I can't see anything other than pappa smurf when I look at it, lol. 6K miles of HW, Backroad, gravel, and sandy gravel on my Pan Am, no issues at all! It's been super reliable. I test road the GS, GSA, V-Strom, and Pan Am twice each before settling on the Pan Am. I'm only 5'7" and mostly torso so the ARH on the Pan Am was a big deal for me, though I could still get both feet down on the GS and GSA with the low seat and suspension thanks to how tight the tank pinches down behind the boxer. It really was the maneuverability, ergo, tech, and power curve of the Pan Am that sold me on it, it was just over all, a better feel than the GS or GSA. Haven't regretted the choice at all.
As an owner of not one but two Multistradas: I appreciate the attention to the flagship adv segment regardless of the torment my motorcycle preferences must endure from the internet.
I wish Spite will be able to afford his dream PanAm one day 👍🏼 On the battle itself I find it a bit unfair to give the GSA a negative about its size when the whole point of the GS adventure is to be bigger. The non Adventure GS is closer to the HD in size. But hey, HD did a fantastic job on their ADV bike.
The seat height makes a world of difference. When a heavy bike goes down, it goes down hard, so it's nice to get your feet on the ground ASAP when something goes wrong.
As someone who owns the GSA and is shorter than Spite (6’1” with a 32in inseam) I think he really isn’t comfortable on this bike. I will admit it is a quirky bike, short friction zone, and the telelever suspension the front feels odd, but the hill hold function with the brakes makes me never really have to put both feet down and I ride in the auto height mode vs the minimum height mode. The GSA does have a learning curve for sure, but once you learn to let the bike do the riding and let the electronics do their thing it is a breeze to ride.
I owned 2018 GS and had 20+k miles on it. I switched to PanAm and I may say HD has more flavor to it. I like to take it out just for 30-40 minutes in the evening witch never happened before with GS
I live in Australia and am yet to see a Pan Am on the road despite them being on sale for quite some time. BMW still own the big adv bike market here, but you’ll see bikes from all the manufacturers around often, even the Moto Guzzi TT.
Harley prefers to have the bikes trailers to the shop enclosed. They are out there. Lol 😆 they just aren't on the road directly as you would typically see bikes. Hahaha
I have rode a Boxter engine for 20 years. I have never once hit my shins on the cylinders. That has to be the strangest criticism ever leveled at the bike. There are literally thousands of online reviews of the 1250GS and none of them mention this being a problem. I think he just made that up.
The boxer is the best all-around bike motor I have ever ridden. I’ve had v-4, I-4, thumper, I-2, v-2. The smooth torque with ability to rev to 9k. It is an amazing engine. Yes, they don’t sound as “cool” as some other designs but who cares. Y-Noob is just a bunch of millennials with nothing to offer. I occasionally watch their videos and usually end up shaking my head. Grow up dudes.
@@steveschneider3872 Spite is just a whinny girl. He constantly whines about the 1250’s weight as if the difference between the two matters. If matters if you are a woman maybe. Then he really can’t come up with something bad to say he comes up with this which sounds like something your girlfriend or wife would say. “I hate that bike. I am always hitting my shins when I get on and off of it”. Whatever Nancy
Just got my PanAm Special back from the 1K service and had them install/flash the Quickshifter, excellent upgrade that should be standard on the Special trim.
GS : more torque, better screen, shaft drive, telelever front fork (way less diving), heated seats, SOS button system (for help), better reliability, cheaper and easier valve maintenance due to boxer engine layout, more accessories by third party brands, and a lot of GS in the world having way more than 100000 miles. More 20 to 40 years experience riders in the world would take the GS (according to many the best allround bike in the world) before the Pan Am. Pan AM is a good ADV bike for a first Harley try but not the best ADV bike in the world. Also in the video it's a GSA (heavier and wider) not a GS (lighter and narrower)
I just made my final decision between the two and I choose the Pan America because of dealer network and being part of the Harley Davidson "club". I really enjoy riding it, very comfortable, easy to drive, great balance of technology.
I just don’t think this is true. The motor has been around a bit and is in thousands of bikes, everything else is from Harley so pretty well off the shelf. Like, when was the last time Harley released a new model and had reliability issues?
@@dumntuftv8853 Been around for a while? What else has it been used in? I have seen posts about the Milwaukee 8 engines, but otherwise don't follow them. My thoughts go to the 1800 Goldwing frames and the cams in early Honda V-fours. Then BMW had the rear ends with no drain plugs and the lifetime fill. Some of them caught fire. Do design problems happen a lot? No. How about features added after the machine has been out for a while? The 2008 and 2009 Concours was redesigned to keep the rider cooler and add a few other features. There were no real weaknesses in the design. I'm not really a fan of the BMW GS series and they have some strange maintenance needs, but they have been made for a very long time. Until recently, Harley technology involved long stroke, air cooled, overhead valve motors. I'd just like to see them on the roads and off for a while before I spend any money on any bike with that family of motors.
Looks to me like someone is a harley fanboy, the gs motor is proven reliable but in the Harley’s side there’s been a lot of problems with the motor and other things so I would choose bmw all day
Decent review, but one of the main considerations, especially if you ride far from home and off road, is accessibility to a dealership and repair. BMW dealers are few and far in between, and HD dealers are like Starbucks. Second is cost of ownership and repair. Although HD isn't exactly cheap, the BMW is way more expensive.
Thank you all for your work. I agree with Deric... i am 63 and a new rider... i need a bike i can pick up and yes, i have fallen 5 time in 18 months... once back in the desert west if tuscon so you need to feel ok about picking it up alone....
You may try the regular 1250GS. It's slimmer but I understand you love the Pan-Am. For me the biggest cons are : - the ugly and flimsy windshield with the daymaker. - the scary sound it can make when not starting on first try (like If a cat was slammed) Otherwise I'm in the "blue" team ;) ✌️
I have owned both the Pan America and a GSA. The Pan America blew the engine at 5k miles. After Harley Replaced the motor, the bike was plagued with electrical problems. I sold the Pan America back to the dealer for an $8000 loss after the bike being in the shop for months. The Pan America was fun to ride on the street. But it's in no way comparable to the GS. Harley has a lot of quality control to handle before anyone should ever take that on an adventure. Adventure rides get real expensive on the Pan America when you keep bringing it home in a Uhaul truck. Whoever thinks these two bikes are in direct competition with each other needs to go back to studying for their MSF exam. 😂
@@AdventureGlide Ah. The lemon law process is a PITA, but I hate to see someone take a loss like that. FWIW, I ride an R1250RS (so lots of common parts) and so far, 7000 trouble free miles.
When you fall off of one of these (I own a '13 GSA), the LAST thing you want to do is get your leg out to try and keep it up. You are supposed to be tippy-toeing the thing! I want BMW to design and sell a new R800gs. Exact same bike, 800cc. It would be smaller and lighter, and I bet they would sell a million of them!
I've ridden sport bikes and cruisers, at 29 years old bought a GSA. I daily drive a motorcycle, don't own a car. I looked at the PanAm, but the GSA ticked more boxes for me. I respect what Harley has done though.
@@LTLT900 Yeah, I was following an owners group on Facebook for both bikes for a few months and there were tons of posts in the PanAm group about issues with the bikes, replacement parts taking forever to come in, etc. Very few issues with the GSA.
You're not wrong in your pro, cons, and annoyances. Deal breaker for me is as a long distance tourer, I would NEVER buy another chain drive again. I do NOT want to spend 20min in a hotel parking lot, or campground after a 600mile day... The NON "A" GS would be my GS of choice. That being said, I just rode the new Tiger 1200 GT Pro yesterday and would strongly recommend checking that out as well. Nothing but giggles!
@@HiroNguy it's the same principle as to why I don't want crank down windows in a car either. Sure, it may not take long to crank down a window, but a button is easier. 20min includes the unpacking of cleaner and lube as well as rags, go back out to the bike and my clean up afterwards. That isn't just 5min unless you're ok with a grimy chain (which I'm not.) Shaft is just easier.
@@masonskr If it takes >5 minutes you're not arranging your tools right. These regular maintenance accouterments should be kept accessible whether on a garage shelf or in a saddlebag on a road trip. Try a different place and arrangement of these tools. You may find it's possible to do these tasks much quicker and easier when it doesn't take digging just to access them.
been watching YN for a while, never quite knew how I felt about Spite.....until the Waterbender comment. Now he is my favorite motorcycling journalist ever.
If I could own any adventure bike for free so not having to worry about price, it would most likely be a BMW, I think it looks better plus I'm kind of a BMW fan. My dad had a limited-edition BMW rockster as well, super cool bike loved it. I grew up around BMW motorcycles, I don't really like BMW cars though.
ADV videos are great. Whitney could probably fit an Africa twin with the seat in the low position. If you do one make sure you get the 1100 Adventure sports and learn the electronics package before the video so you can utilize the user modes, electronic suspension, traction control, ABS etc. Dct is great but you guys will probably whine about it, although it could make you look great off-road. loving the videos guys and I diffidently noticed some new cinematic work.
Harley does it again. Makes a bike that sounds wonderful on paper, rides good and handles good. But then you have to look at it and realize they forgot to make it look good too.
I too always pack my ball shaver when adventuring to the nearest coffee shop. You can't be too prepared!
2 года назад+1
Instead of these comparisons, you should be doing a film on how to remove the boxes. It seems everyone that has a mamoth bike keeps forgetting that... :)
All the big moto press in north america (and now top social media folks) are in HD's back pocket and have been for decades. Money talks as do the trips and perks.
@@PetrolJunkie I blew the engine up on my Pan America at 5k they told me that the manifold came off the oil pump. Smoked the engine. Harley did replace the engine, but I had tons of electrical issues. I feel for you. My first, and only Harley experience was terrible.
6k miles on my 1250S orange colorway. No issues at all. I wonder if it has something to do with the dealer I bought it from though. Hales HD in Mansfield Ohio got it in the shop in May of 21 and said they wanted to really button it down for me, so I waited to pick it up until June. Hales is a HD and Yamaha dealer so maybe their techs were better suited to handle setting up something a little "non-harley".
The Pan Am is arguably the most unreliable modern bike. The grab rails break, radiator hose melts, clutch issues, fuel pump issues, engine blows up with low miles, has the "no start" isssue, electrical problems aplenty, bad kickstand, poor mudflaps coat radiator with mud, variable valvetrain issues, throws dozens of engine codes, can only equip quickshifter on certain models, issues with the adaptive ride height system, and worst of all....the dealers are so challenged with this bike, they can hardly get the services right. Oh, did i mention people's engines have been shutting off and stalling at speed? I rode this bike and loved it, but im on all the Pan Am facebook groups and its a nightmare. The majority of owners with problem-free experiences have less than 10k miles on it. Surprised there hasnt been a class action lawsuit yet. If an ADV bike isnt reliable, its almost useless!
Go to the Pan Am facebook groups and look at the polls that pop up every once in a while for "Have you had 0 problems" vs "have you had some problems". The issues a loud few are (justifiably) whining about is effecting
@@rayzorjay7331 I've been in all of the facebook groups since launch, which is where i got all my info from. 6k miles isnt much to go on. I put 6k miles on a bike in a single season, thats not really enough to discredit those who have gotten complete lemons. I do agree that the negative comments always outshine the positive ones, but saying that less than 1% of Pan Am owners have issues is completely incorrect. You can tell just from the recall numbers alone that much much more than 1% are having issues, and the issues are often catastrophic. Im glad your Pan Am has treated you well in your first 6k miles, but dont let that fool you into thinking the rest of the world is crying wolf. If you were one of the many owners who needed a replacement engine at 1k miles, you would be singing a different tune my friend. Not for nothing, but more than half of these issues shouldnt have even made it out of the factory. The more people talk about their Pan Am issues, the less i see other using the "1st gen problem" excuse.
As a GS owner I may say, that I had my good share of visits to dealer with issues. List goes like that- drive shaft replaced, because of corrosion inside and it breaking eventually Frons shock failure and replacement Quick shifter failure and replacement Clutch replaced 2 times Rear Shock failures, from time to time reappearing issue that dealer could not resolve Left hand control replacement because of failure Windshield control mechanism (stiff as fart) bends under wind pressure and failed eventually Think that is all...
You make a lot of great videos and you always try to make them funny; But this time, your humor has reached a new level, and JUST reading the headline makes me laugh😅
I WANT MORE DEREK!! DO A SERIES ON DEREK!! I WANT A DEREK WIFU BODY PILLOW!! FINALLY SOME DEMOGRAPHIC REPRESENTATION FOR US OPPRESSED LIFTERS!! MANS GOT GUNS FOR DAYS!!! I WANT A DEREK CALANDER GOTDAMNIT!!
Good one guys. Since Papa Yam is distracted while he’s in California, there is an opportunity for you and Whitney to take those adventure bikes on a trip to the Dirty Shame for some swampy weirdness!
I owned a Pan Am Special. I was the first in my area to get one. I was the first to bring it back for check engine lights. It threw over 36 different codes and ended up back at the dealer 3 times before I started threatening federal lemon laws. The dealer and the MoCo had no idea how to fix it. Hell, I had the electrical service manual. Many of the codes weren’t even in the MoCo data base. This bike was absolute crap.
Guys, the Pan Am is ok but a comparison to the regular 1250 GS would’ve been a little more fair. I’m not a GS rider, I have a 2020 Tiger 1200 but I’ve ridden both the Pan Am and the GS. The Pan Am fit a finish ain’t that great. Too much cheap plastic. It has plastic grab handles for the passenger. I have an Ultra Limited as well so I’m not Harley bashing. It has potential but at best it’s a good first attempt by Harley. Its far from dethroning anything in the adv world.
I would probably buy the HD used. A 2yr old with HD approved and some accessories can be bought for around £10k . The GS is a better handling bike but used ones go for £13-15k and it's not a 30-50% better bike. Weight wise the GS feels lighter even though it's heavier because it's centre of gravity is low. HD needs to fix the screen- the one on my Sportster S is 10x better
I'm a big fan of you guys, been riding in one form or another since I was about 8. Couple thoughts on this one though: 1. How the hell you gonna do an ADV bike review and not even go offroad? 2. The bmw comes in smaller sizes, unlike the Harley. 3. It really hurts my heart to watch spite deride the bmw just because it's not what he was expecting. Every bike is different. If tou want a generic motorcycle, just say that. Don't complain about the BMWs front end just because you refuse to embrace it. "This isnt exactly what im used to and is therefore trash" isnt very informative as a viewer. To quote yam himself: "You gotta feel it bro"
With no offroad in the video I'm forced to conclude: Harley made a better cruiser than a BMW adventure bike. I'm shocked. Now compare any Harley to the k1600b 😂😂😂
Tbh imho the 3 best adv bikes are the superadv , the at and the gs , and theyre equaly good the only difference is the rider's taste and his pocket depth , if you want extreme offroad get a dirtbike or a tenere700
Can’t believe I’m saying this, but HD right off the bat knocked it out of the park! And and, being 5’8” with a 30” inseam the choice is a no-brainer. Hopefully HD will keep refining the Pan, and if they do they will be at the top of the ADV dog pile!
Need a Pan Am vs. KTM 1290 Super Adventure R video. The KTM may not be the bigesst seller or most popular but it is the best choice if you want go off road and hit some harder trails.
Depends on what you want to do with them. They're pretty great on easy single track, and can grind up fire roads and the like all day long in high comfort. Pretty fun to hit some gravel and let the back end loose.
The front end feel on the GS is the first thing any rider notices about the GS and it's something you just get used to over ownership. The only thing i didn't like about this video is that neither were dropped 🤣
the way i see, there was 2 extremes of the Very Best ADVs. on one end there is the super technologic gs1250 and on the other there is the super simplistic Himalayan. Both at the top of the sales world wide for diferent reasons. And the Pan Am just seens to take that gs formula and slide it a bit to the himalayan side. Which is a good thing. I always though of the GS as a flexer and not a doer.
First model year or two...avoid. Give them a few years to sort them out better. I wouldn't buy one ever but just my 2c if you really like (gulp) the look 🤮
My hate is the heat from the pipes close to the legs, 2021 no quick shifter, 2021 can't mirror goggle maps from the phone to display (2022 don't know of mirroring google maps to display), 2022 have to pay more to add a quick shifter. Another con or pro depending on the person chain maintenance vs the no maintenance drive shaft of the bmw. Both are great bikes can't go wrong with what the person decide. But for serious off roading adventure you will need a lighter bike vs this huge weighty motorcycles.
I’m not getting either one because I don’t ride on dirt. I prefer the Harley, but I’m concerned with longevity and reliability. That engine is making 13 to 1 compression, which seems kinda extreme to me. I wonder how long these Rev Max engines will hold up?
One nice thing about the R1250 is that it has a drive shaft instead of a chain which makes maintenance easier, especially on long trips.
maybe they should put gear oil in hot sauce style packets....way more convenient
It is a plus but it also tends to break. Great bike ....
Wasting 20% power instead of 3-5%? No thanks. Give me chain. Oh and belts are the worst of both worlds.
Yeah shaft is great until the seals start leaking. Then it's a Yoooj mess and a PIA to fix.
Also: Weight.
Therefore for me it's a tie. I don't mind chain maintenance but can enjoy a shaft for a road focused bike.
@@trailrider1980 K1200S owner, 15 year old bike and 0 problems. I change the shaft fluid every 30.000 km’s. I ride a Panigale V4 as well, but wanted a shaft drive bike for long distance touring. Big fan of shaft drive here.
Everyone needs a $30,000 off-road motorcycle to go to Starbucks.
Everyone needs a turbo busa to go to work
Lol, I totally see your point. But when you live in a state like Nevada. Riding a thumper at 80mph down a dirt for 300miles not only isn't an option. It's miserable. They definitely have their place. And I prefer to bring my Starbucks and Aeropress with me. Lol 😆
I ride my VTR250 to Woodenbong from Brisbane.
With full boxes on... always.
Just like they need a jacked up 4x4 pickup.
I love my orange Pan Am, the Blue is really cool too, but I can't see anything other than pappa smurf when I look at it, lol. 6K miles of HW, Backroad, gravel, and sandy gravel on my Pan Am, no issues at all! It's been super reliable. I test road the GS, GSA, V-Strom, and Pan Am twice each before settling on the Pan Am. I'm only 5'7" and mostly torso so the ARH on the Pan Am was a big deal for me, though I could still get both feet down on the GS and GSA with the low seat and suspension thanks to how tight the tank pinches down behind the boxer. It really was the maneuverability, ergo, tech, and power curve of the Pan Am that sold me on it, it was just over all, a better feel than the GS or GSA. Haven't regretted the choice at all.
As an owner of not one but two Multistradas: I appreciate the attention to the flagship adv segment regardless of the torment my motorcycle preferences must endure from the internet.
I mean if you have two Multistradas, you won life and touched the finest grass. Internet nerds could only seethe in envy.
I wish Spite will be able to afford his dream PanAm one day 👍🏼
On the battle itself I find it a bit unfair to give the GSA a negative about its size when the whole point of the GS adventure is to be bigger. The non Adventure GS is closer to the HD in size. But hey, HD did a fantastic job on their ADV bike.
No if ands or buts, the GSA is a big freaking bike. I saw a guy 6'5" riding one and it fit him perfect.
A straight GS would have been a better comparison, weight is practically the same.
@@mojomanmurph1925 I'm 6'6'' myself and it's indeed a great bike for taller guys.
The seat height makes a world of difference. When a heavy bike goes down, it goes down hard, so it's nice to get your feet on the ground ASAP when something goes wrong.
As someone who owns the GSA and is shorter than Spite (6’1” with a 32in inseam) I think he really isn’t comfortable on this bike. I will admit it is a quirky bike, short friction zone, and the telelever suspension the front feels odd, but the hill hold function with the brakes makes me never really have to put both feet down and I ride in the auto height mode vs the minimum height mode. The GSA does have a learning curve for sure, but once you learn to let the bike do the riding and let the electronics do their thing it is a breeze to ride.
Its been pretty entertaining watching Spite's dad bike arc.... not sure its fully complete yet, but he getting pretty close to peak dad biker.
I owned 2018 GS and had 20+k miles on it. I switched to PanAm and I may say HD has more flavor to it. I like to take it out just for 30-40 minutes in the evening witch never happened before with GS
I live in Australia and am yet to see a Pan Am on the road despite them being on sale for quite some time. BMW still own the big adv bike market here, but you’ll see bikes from all the manufacturers around often, even the Moto Guzzi TT.
Harley prefers to have the bikes trailers to the shop enclosed. They are out there. Lol 😆 they just aren't on the road directly as you would typically see bikes. Hahaha
Ive never seen any when i ride to Woodenbong from Brisbane.
Really appreciate all you guys at yammi. You always make me smile wether I want to or not. 😁
I have rode a Boxter engine for 20 years. I have never once hit my shins on the cylinders. That has to be the strangest criticism ever leveled at the bike. There are literally thousands of online reviews of the 1250GS and none of them mention this being a problem.
I think he just made that up.
The boxer is the best all-around bike motor I have ever ridden. I’ve had v-4, I-4, thumper, I-2, v-2. The smooth torque with ability to rev to 9k. It is an amazing engine. Yes, they don’t sound as “cool” as some other designs but who cares. Y-Noob is just a bunch of millennials with nothing to offer. I occasionally watch their videos and usually end up shaking my head. Grow up dudes.
@@steveschneider3872 Spite is just a whinny girl. He constantly whines about the 1250’s weight as if the difference between the two matters. If matters if you are a woman maybe. Then he really can’t come up with something bad to say he comes up with this which sounds like something your girlfriend or wife would say. “I hate that bike. I am always hitting my shins when I get on and off of it”. Whatever Nancy
Just got my PanAm Special back from the 1K service and had them install/flash the Quickshifter, excellent upgrade that should be standard on the Special trim.
GS : more torque, better screen, shaft drive, telelever front fork (way less diving), heated seats, SOS button system (for help), better reliability, cheaper and easier valve maintenance due to boxer engine layout, more accessories by third party brands, and a lot of GS in the world having way more than 100000 miles. More 20 to 40 years experience riders in the world would take the GS (according to many the best allround bike in the world) before the Pan Am.
Pan AM is a good ADV bike for a first Harley try but not the best ADV bike in the world.
Also in the video it's a GSA (heavier and wider) not a GS (lighter and narrower)
You wrong about one thing! The harley have hydraulic valve adjustment, that is the only thing aI like more than the bmw!
Loving all the Whitney content lately. Especially those sunglasses at the end.
I just made my final decision between the two and I choose the Pan America because of dealer network and being part of the Harley Davidson "club". I really enjoy riding it, very comfortable, easy to drive, great balance of technology.
It will take several years of Pan Ams before I will trust the reliability. There will probably also be improvements made as time goes on.
I just don’t think this is true. The motor has been around a bit and is in thousands of bikes, everything else is from Harley so pretty well off the shelf. Like, when was the last time Harley released a new model and had reliability issues?
@@dumntuftv8853 Been around for a while? What else has it been used in? I have seen posts about the Milwaukee 8 engines, but otherwise don't follow them. My thoughts go to the 1800 Goldwing frames and the cams in early Honda V-fours. Then BMW had the rear ends with no drain plugs and the lifetime fill. Some of them caught fire. Do design problems happen a lot? No. How about features added after the machine has been out for a while? The 2008 and 2009 Concours was redesigned to keep the rider cooler and add a few other features. There were no real weaknesses in the design. I'm not really a fan of the BMW GS series and they have some strange maintenance needs, but they have been made for a very long time. Until recently, Harley technology involved long stroke, air cooled, overhead valve motors. I'd just like to see them on the roads and off for a while before I spend any money on any bike with that family of motors.
Exactly, if you buy the first generation of a clean-sheet design, you're essentially a guinea pig.
Took HD 7 years to improve the twin-cam.
Looks to me like someone is a harley fanboy, the gs motor is proven reliable but in the Harley’s side there’s been a lot of problems with the motor and other things so I would choose bmw all day
BMW hands down a better bike. This is like comparing a Kia Sportage to a Ford Raptor. Get real; these two don't even compare.
Decent review, but one of the main considerations, especially if you ride far from home and off road, is accessibility to a dealership and repair. BMW dealers are few and far in between, and HD dealers are like Starbucks. Second is cost of ownership and repair. Although HD isn't exactly cheap, the BMW is way more expensive.
Thank you all for your work. I agree with Deric... i am 63 and a new rider... i need a bike i can pick up and yes, i have fallen 5 time in 18 months... once back in the desert west if tuscon so you need to feel ok about picking it up alone....
Eastbound Motohoist 👍
You may try the regular 1250GS. It's slimmer but I understand you love the Pan-Am.
For me the biggest cons are :
- the ugly and flimsy windshield with the daymaker.
- the scary sound it can make when not starting on first try (like If a cat was slammed)
Otherwise I'm in the "blue" team ;)
✌️
I have owned both the Pan America and a GSA. The Pan America blew the engine at 5k miles. After Harley Replaced the motor, the bike was plagued with electrical problems. I sold the Pan America back to the dealer for an $8000 loss after the bike being in the shop for months. The Pan America was fun to ride on the street. But it's in no way comparable to the GS. Harley has a lot of quality control to handle before anyone should ever take that on an adventure. Adventure rides get real expensive on the Pan America when you keep bringing it home in a Uhaul truck. Whoever thinks these two bikes are in direct competition with each other needs to go back to studying for their MSF exam. 😂
You didn't lemon law the PA?
@@paulv22 I started the process but ended up selling back to the dealer.
@@AdventureGlide Ah. The lemon law process is a PITA, but I hate to see someone take a loss like that. FWIW, I ride an R1250RS (so lots of common parts) and so far, 7000 trouble free miles.
@@paulv22 I knew the bike was going to have issues when I bought it. But I wasn't prepared to be without a motorcycle for months.
When you fall off of one of these (I own a '13 GSA), the LAST thing you want to do is get your leg out to try and keep it up. You are supposed to be tippy-toeing the thing!
I want BMW to design and sell a new R800gs. Exact same bike, 800cc. It would be smaller and lighter, and I bet they would sell a million of them!
Derek the camera man has been crushing it, some of the shots lately have had me like "whoaa"
I've ridden sport bikes and cruisers, at 29 years old bought a GSA. I daily drive a motorcycle, don't own a car. I looked at the PanAm, but the GSA ticked more boxes for me. I respect what Harley has done though.
Looking at the other posts it sounds like you dodged a bullet.
@@LTLT900 Yeah, I was following an owners group on Facebook for both bikes for a few months and there were tons of posts in the PanAm group about issues with the bikes, replacement parts taking forever to come in, etc. Very few issues with the GSA.
You're not wrong in your pro, cons, and annoyances. Deal breaker for me is as a long distance tourer, I would NEVER buy another chain drive again. I do NOT want to spend 20min in a hotel parking lot, or campground after a 600mile day... The NON "A" GS would be my GS of choice. That being said, I just rode the new Tiger 1200 GT Pro yesterday and would strongly recommend checking that out as well. Nothing but giggles!
*20 minutes???* How many coffees do you leisurely sip during your preride lookover? Chain lubing
@@HiroNguy it's the same principle as to why I don't want crank down windows in a car either. Sure, it may not take long to crank down a window, but a button is easier. 20min includes the unpacking of cleaner and lube as well as rags, go back out to the bike and my clean up afterwards. That isn't just 5min unless you're ok with a grimy chain (which I'm not.) Shaft is just easier.
@@masonskr If it takes >5 minutes you're not arranging your tools right. These regular maintenance accouterments should be kept accessible whether on a garage shelf or in a saddlebag on a road trip.
Try a different place and arrangement of these tools. You may find it's possible to do these tasks much quicker and easier when it doesn't take digging just to access them.
Finally some pan ams let's see how yam enjoys these 😂
That’s what I am dieing to see.
been watching YN for a while, never quite knew how I felt about Spite.....until the Waterbender comment. Now he is my favorite motorcycling journalist ever.
Ending the video in front of a coffee shop is the perfect fairy-tail-esq adv dad ending.
If I could own any adventure bike for free so not having to worry about price, it would most likely be a BMW, I think it looks better plus I'm kind of a BMW fan. My dad had a limited-edition BMW rockster as well, super cool bike loved it. I grew up around BMW motorcycles, I don't really like BMW cars though.
Better comparison would of been versus a GS not GS/A.
For me, it's Whitney's Grunge Voice! I need that song.
STANDING UP...
...BEING THE DAD, GOING UP A HILL...
ADV videos are great. Whitney could probably fit an Africa twin with the seat in the low position. If you do one make sure you get the 1100 Adventure sports and learn the electronics package before the video so you can utilize the user modes, electronic suspension, traction control, ABS etc. Dct is great but you guys will probably whine about it, although it could make you look great off-road. loving the videos guys and I diffidently noticed some new cinematic work.
Harley does it again. Makes a bike that sounds wonderful on paper, rides good and handles good. But then you have to look at it and realize they forgot to make it look good too.
It truly is an amazingly ugly bike!
The Pan America is a good start for Harley’s first ADV bike. Their 2nd gen will improve and get closer to The Beemer.
Can't be a flagship ADV without shaft drive.
It would be nice if other companies started making that the ADV standard. Not enough have it yet.
Fact Check: TRUE!
Tell that to KTM.
Why don't they ever talk about or review the Africa Twin?
I too always pack my ball shaver when adventuring to the nearest coffee shop. You can't be too prepared!
Instead of these comparisons, you should be doing a film on how to remove the boxes. It seems everyone that has a mamoth bike keeps forgetting that... :)
Jeeeez Whitney, dem pit vipers though. Respect lol
Tip them both on the side and see which one is easier to pick up..
The benefit of the boxer motor is it will keep it from laying all the way down!!
what a lovely HD commercial that was. there's sure to be a big bonos in if for you guys.
All the big moto press in north america (and now top social media folks) are in HD's back pocket and have been for decades. Money talks as do the trips and perks.
Newly minted ADV dad falls in love with the Dirt Glide.
I prefer the alliteration of Gravel Glide.
Or Off-Road Glide.
"I'll put it in my pocket." The casual ball shaver lol
The GM of a Harley dealership told me not to buy the Pan-Am yet. Great potential, but massive reliability problems persist at this first generation.
Sounds about right
@@PetrolJunkie Oh man that sounds like a nightmare!
Thats shameful they won't cover it under the warranty. Get a lawyer that's BS!
@@PetrolJunkie I blew the engine up on my Pan America at 5k they told me that the manifold came off the oil pump. Smoked the engine. Harley did replace the engine, but I had tons of electrical issues. I feel for you. My first, and only Harley experience was terrible.
6k miles on my 1250S orange colorway. No issues at all. I wonder if it has something to do with the dealer I bought it from though. Hales HD in Mansfield Ohio got it in the shop in May of 21 and said they wanted to really button it down for me, so I waited to pick it up until June. Hales is a HD and Yamaha dealer so maybe their techs were better suited to handle setting up something a little "non-harley".
Not so… there have been a few bikes with serious issues, but not loads…
Whitney: "(ball shaver)... That's gross".
LoL
The Pan Am is arguably the most unreliable modern bike. The grab rails break, radiator hose melts, clutch issues, fuel pump issues, engine blows up with low miles, has the "no start" isssue, electrical problems aplenty, bad kickstand, poor mudflaps coat radiator with mud, variable valvetrain issues, throws dozens of engine codes, can only equip quickshifter on certain models, issues with the adaptive ride height system, and worst of all....the dealers are so challenged with this bike, they can hardly get the services right. Oh, did i mention people's engines have been shutting off and stalling at speed?
I rode this bike and loved it, but im on all the Pan Am facebook groups and its a nightmare. The majority of owners with problem-free experiences have less than 10k miles on it. Surprised there hasnt been a class action lawsuit yet. If an ADV bike isnt reliable, its almost useless!
Yes but Spite is a HD simp who appears to mention them any chance he gets. There really is no comparison.
Go to the Pan Am facebook groups and look at the polls that pop up every once in a while for "Have you had 0 problems" vs "have you had some problems". The issues a loud few are (justifiably) whining about is effecting
@@rayzorjay7331 I've been in all of the facebook groups since launch, which is where i got all my info from. 6k miles isnt much to go on. I put 6k miles on a bike in a single season, thats not really enough to discredit those who have gotten complete lemons. I do agree that the negative comments always outshine the positive ones, but saying that less than 1% of Pan Am owners have issues is completely incorrect. You can tell just from the recall numbers alone that much much more than 1% are having issues, and the issues are often catastrophic. Im glad your Pan Am has treated you well in your first 6k miles, but dont let that fool you into thinking the rest of the world is crying wolf. If you were one of the many owners who needed a replacement engine at 1k miles, you would be singing a different tune my friend. Not for nothing, but more than half of these issues shouldnt have even made it out of the factory. The more people talk about their Pan Am issues, the less i see other using the "1st gen problem" excuse.
As a GS owner I may say, that I had my good share of visits to dealer with issues.
List goes like that-
drive shaft replaced, because of corrosion inside and it breaking eventually
Frons shock failure and replacement
Quick shifter failure and replacement
Clutch replaced 2 times
Rear Shock failures, from time to time reappearing issue that dealer could not resolve
Left hand control replacement because of failure
Windshield control mechanism (stiff as fart) bends under wind pressure and failed eventually
Think that is all...
100% Agreed. Mine was a POS. But fun to ride in the canyons. Never trusted it to really get out there like in do with the. BMW GSA and Super Tenere.
A video on V4 engine bikes would be greatly appreciated.
I want them to ride a VFR and compare it to other bikes
You make a lot of great videos and you always try to make them funny; But this time, your humor has reached a new level, and JUST reading the headline makes me laugh😅
You guys need a tenere, africa twin, the Harley and a beemer
No ktm?? Lol damn
I WANT MORE DEREK!! DO A SERIES ON DEREK!! I WANT A DEREK WIFU BODY PILLOW!! FINALLY SOME DEMOGRAPHIC REPRESENTATION FOR US OPPRESSED LIFTERS!! MANS GOT GUNS FOR DAYS!!! I WANT A DEREK CALANDER GOTDAMNIT!!
"i don't wanna touch it" wise words young lady
Ewen and Charlie kickstarted the Pan America also with their long way up. Even if it was an electric version.
Pan America has zero chance with me... chain vs shaft? no way am I getting a chain... plus the normal BMW GS is a better size than the giant GSA
Good one guys. Since Papa Yam is distracted while he’s in California, there is an opportunity for you and Whitney to take those adventure bikes on a trip to the Dirty Shame for some swampy weirdness!
I owned a Pan Am Special. I was the first in my area to get one. I was the first to bring it back for check engine lights. It threw over 36 different codes and ended up back at the dealer 3 times before I started threatening federal lemon laws. The dealer and the MoCo had no idea how to fix it. Hell, I had the electrical service manual. Many of the codes weren’t even in the MoCo data base. This bike was absolute crap.
nice that the panam comes with a ball shaver in this episode!
I sprayed my snot on “it’s time to go to Starbucks “
Yaaaaayyyy spite finally gets to see what it's like being short for once🤣🤣
Guys, the Pan Am is ok but a comparison to the regular 1250 GS would’ve been a little more fair. I’m not a GS rider, I have a 2020 Tiger 1200 but I’ve ridden both the Pan Am and the GS. The Pan Am fit a finish ain’t that great. Too much cheap plastic. It has plastic grab handles for the passenger. I have an Ultra Limited as well so I’m not Harley bashing. It has potential but at best it’s a good first attempt by Harley. Its far from dethroning anything in the adv world.
WATERBENDER BLUE! Spite just gets cooler and cooler. ATLA fans represent!
I would probably buy the HD used. A 2yr old with HD approved and some accessories can be bought for around £10k . The GS is a better handling bike but used ones go for £13-15k and it's not a 30-50% better bike. Weight wise the GS feels lighter even though it's heavier because it's centre of gravity is low. HD needs to fix the screen- the one on my Sportster S is 10x better
I trade my Dyna Low Rider S 2017 to the GS 1250 Adventure 2023 and I'm very happy for my right decision 😁
If a King Dong bike exists, does that mean there's also a Queen Clam? 🤔
Just like how she feels, Pan Am is the Lady's Adventure Touring Bike. But, women should also consider the Tiger 900 which is far superior to Pan Am.
Both of these bikes are equally great for riding the flat pavement to the nearest coffee shop ;-).
If the pan America is the king, then the honorable V-Strom, Must be the prince, I just has to be!!
The V-Strom is probably the smart choice if you are spending your own money..or Africa twin.
I'm a big fan of you guys, been riding in one form or another since I was about 8.
Couple thoughts on this one though:
1. How the hell you gonna do an ADV bike review and not even go offroad?
2. The bmw comes in smaller sizes, unlike the Harley.
3. It really hurts my heart to watch spite deride the bmw just because it's not what he was expecting. Every bike is different. If tou want a generic motorcycle, just say that. Don't complain about the BMWs front end just because you refuse to embrace it. "This isnt exactly what im used to and is therefore trash" isnt very informative as a viewer. To quote yam himself: "You gotta feel it bro"
With no offroad in the video I'm forced to conclude: Harley made a better cruiser than a BMW adventure bike. I'm shocked. Now compare any Harley to the k1600b 😂😂😂
Thanks for stating the obvious.
Both motorcycles will perform equally well going for a coffe at starbucks..
if you're whacking your shins on the boxer get boots that run up your shin.
Great video but a better comparison video would be the W800 vs T100. W800 when?
Diggin this background music, btw. Nice job, Yam 👍 🎹 🎛️ 🎧 🎶
*fast eddie glares from a distance*
The GS already set thr benchmarking for this class.
The Harley done a very good job,but it's not a match for thr GS🤘🤘🤘
I almost bought a GS while I was waiting for valve shims for my KLR!
Tbh imho the 3 best adv bikes are the superadv , the at and the gs , and theyre equaly good the only difference is the rider's taste and his pocket depth , if you want extreme offroad get a dirtbike or a tenere700
Can’t believe I’m saying this, but HD right off the bat knocked it out of the park! And and, being 5’8” with a 30” inseam the choice is a no-brainer. Hopefully HD will keep refining the Pan, and if they do they will be at the top of the ADV dog pile!
Need a Pan Am vs. KTM 1290 Super Adventure R video. The KTM may not be the bigesst seller or most popular but it is the best choice if you want go off road and hit some harder trails.
throw in the ktm in that mix^^
Still wouldn't take any of them off road. I don't like to get stuck.
Depends on what you want to do with them. They're pretty great on easy single track, and can grind up fire roads and the like all day long in high comfort. Pretty fun to hit some gravel and let the back end loose.
The front end feel on the GS is the first thing any rider notices about the GS and it's something you just get used to over ownership. The only thing i didn't like about this video is that neither were dropped 🤣
I think a better comparison & competitor to the R1250GS is the new Triumph Tiger 1200 because of the shaft
the way i see, there was 2 extremes of the Very Best ADVs. on one end there is the super technologic gs1250 and on the other there is the super simplistic Himalayan. Both at the top of the sales world wide for diferent reasons. And the Pan Am just seens to take that gs formula and slide it a bit to the himalayan side. Which is a good thing. I always though of the GS as a flexer and not a doer.
Pan America is good when it turns on LOL
More and more pan ams popping up with engine, clutch, fuel pump ect failures …
That sucks. I worry about Hd reliability. I love Yamaha. Thinkin super tenere.
I want to like the HD bc I kinda want one but I keep seeing failures lately
First model year or two...avoid. Give them a few years to sort them out better. I wouldn't buy one ever but just my 2c if you really like (gulp) the look 🤮
@@Stevel_ Definitely right about first few model years. Best not to be a beta tester.
hehe finally managed to get my first bike 😅 am in the UK so starting on a measley 125cc but still excited
Onya. All bikes are fun.
Spite like the Harley? Craziness.
My hate is the heat from the pipes close to the legs, 2021 no quick shifter, 2021 can't mirror goggle maps from the phone to display (2022 don't know of mirroring google maps to display), 2022 have to pay more to add a quick shifter. Another con or pro depending on the person chain maintenance vs the no maintenance drive shaft of the bmw. Both are great bikes can't go wrong with what the person decide. But for serious off roading adventure you will need a lighter bike vs this huge weighty motorcycles.
Made Witnney touch the ball shaver 🤣🤣🤣
I’m not getting either one because I don’t ride on dirt. I prefer the Harley, but I’m concerned with longevity and reliability. That engine is making 13 to 1 compression, which seems kinda extreme to me. I wonder how long these Rev Max engines will hold up?
Thats just it....they arent holding up. The motors have been blowing with low miles ever since the Pan Am hit showrooms
I like the Spite and Whitney vids funny stuff
Grats on your new sponsor, Starbucks
They need to paint the fairing or something. It just looks too much like an aftermarket bolt-on that never got finished.
I think people keep comparing the pan am to the GS, but in reality I think HD was competing more with the multistrada
What’s a Pan Am? Is it another cheap knock off of a BMW GS?!?🙄🥱😪……. 🇩🇪>🇯🇵🇺🇸🇮🇹🇬🇧
BEST.
INTRO.
EVER.
Top selling motorcycles in the USA in 2022. #1 Honda #2 Polaris #3 Harley
Top selling Burger is from McDonalds 😂
Yammie omg please do a review on the Ducati xdiavel please tells us what you honestly think yes or nope
The styling on the Harley looks like a medical appliance
So now you only miss riding the fun ADV bikes.
???
AWESOME VIDEO ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !