Skarmory vs. Mantine
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- Опубликовано: 18 ноя 2022
- 👟 Vessis early Black Friday sale is on now! Vessi is giving away a pair of socks of your choice to the first 100 shoes sold using my code SOCKSSCOTTSTHOUGHTS. Get your style and size you want now before they sell out! Check out their Early Black Friday sale at vessi.com/SCOTTSTHOUGHTS. Free shipping to CA, US, AU,JP, TW, KR, SGP.
Playthrough Rules:
1. Only my starter in battle
2. No items in battle (except held items)
3. No glitches or exploits*
4. No Double-Team TM before level 100*
Other rules:
-- My Pokemon have perfect genetics to ensure fair comparison between species.
-- *Pokeballs & Pokedolls are allowed in battle
-- *The badge-boost glitch is not restricted at all
-- *Skipping the Rocket Hideout & Marowak is allowed
-- I play the game at 4x game speed (238 frames per second)
-- My Pokemon has perfect DVs
-- The bike is allowed
-- Skipping the bike is not allowed
-- Saving between league members is allowed
-- If the solo Pokemon faints and I choose to blackout it counts towards my reset counter
-- I can pause the game & timer to take breaks
-- The footage is sped up / slowed down to match the pace of my narration
*Double-Team:
-- Almost every Pokemon can learn Double-Team through TM
-- The TM can be purchased in Celadon
-- Using it would centralize the meta
-- Every Pokemon would use it to overcome tough battles at lower levels
-- It raises evasion
-- It triggers the badge boost
-- Banning the TM allows Pokemon who learn it through level up to use it
-- I believe evasion is part of Pokemon and shouldn't be banned entirely
-- I don't want the videos to all be double-team spam though, that's not fun or entertaining
Terms:
-- STAB
-- Same-Type-Attack-Bonus - a 1.5x damage multiplier
-- Stat Experience
-- The Gen1&2 equivalent of effort values. You can invest in all stats until they max
out at 65535
-- DVs or Determinate Values
-- The Gen1&2 equivalent of IVs (individual values), these range from 0-15
Resources:
-- Gen 1 Stat Calculator: pycosites.com/pkmn/stat_gen1.php
-- All Trainer Pokemon have IVs (DVs) of 89888 (hp, atk, def, spd, spc)
-- All Trainer Pokemon have EVs of 0
-- Gen 1 Crit Rates: www.smogon.com/rb/articles/cr...
-- Crit rate is determined by dividing base speed by 512
-- High crit rate moves determine their rate by dividing base speed by 64
-- All crits have a 1/256 to fail, even if the rate is 100%
-- Crits don't multiple damage by 2, it's a formula based on level
Illustrations
Sarina Vail: / sarinavail
Support me on Patreon
/ scottsthoughts
~~Connect with me~~
Twitter
/ psychicflying
Email
scottsthoughtspokemon@gmail.com 
Игры
👟 Vessis early Black Friday sale is on now! Vessi is giving away a pair of socks of your choice to the first 100 shoes sold using my code SOCKSSCOTTSTHOUGHTS. Get your style and size you want now before they sell out! Check out their Early Black Friday sale at vessi.com/SCOTTSTHOUGHTS. Free shipping to CA, US, AU,JP, TW, KR, SGP.
Get that bread. I have Docs tho
I love this add. Congrats on the sponsorship!!!
Should have used this for the Tangela solo.
Sock’s thoughts
sweet mcjesus even with the code theyre so expensive 😱
I think Scott forgot to insert the poll results when he speaks about it.
Also Scott: "I teach Mantine Headbutt in the place of Headbutt."
Was about to comment this lol
You don’t wanna have TWO headbutts! #ScottLogic
It wouldn't be a problem on Doduo, but on Mantine you would need to use the little Remoraid's head, and that's just not very effective.
Can't believe he hasn't pinned the results in the comments!
Never realized that these Pokémon were mirrors of each other. Now I gotta know, why didn’t Skarmory get a pre-evolution in Gen 4 like Mantine >:(
It got Jynxed?
Would’ve just been an armoured spearow
@@kylesherlock3859 Spearow with a tinfoil hat
They could have named it Skarmini! 😃
@@antshield I love this
The cut to Mantine in Kanto had me dying 😂
Note: Skarmory can have Drill Peck as an egg move and Mantine can have Hydro Pump as an egg move along with Twister, not that you'd have a lot of Pokémon to use it on, but it is at least stronger than Bubble.
Edit: Glad to see slow and steady win the race this time. Personally I've always liked Mantine since I saw it used in the movie with Latias and Latios. Something about it just gives big friend vibes. If there's one thing to learn from this video, it is to evaluate the various Hidden Powers from Physical and Special to where which is most prioritized. Looking forward to the next one dude.
Fun fact:
Real life Manta Rays are actually big friends. They don't like being touched, but if you go snorkeling they will let you go right up to them. Additionally they are considered the smartest fish on the planet, being able to recognize their own reflection in a mirror(which scientists believe means they could be self-aware). They are also incapable of biting or stinging despite being related to both Sharks and Stingrays.
its probably because of the little Remoraid that tags along with it.
Skarmory having Drill Peck would be huge since it's stronger (in Gen 2) and more reliable than Fly and a 1 turn move.
Skarmory's one of those pokemon that I always liked, but have never really used. It's also one of those pokemon that I associate more with Gen 3, namely because of how common they are in that volcano ash area in Hoenn. At least I always knew it was a Gen 2 pokemon this time.
Wow, that hidden power switch up from ground to rock was such a game changer
It truly was! Can’t believe how much better Rock was…
@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon Especially since Hidden Power is not only slightly stronger than Ancient Power pre Gen 6, but more accurate than any Rock move, like Stone Edge and Diamond Storm.
@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon ok favorite grinding spots Gen 2
1. The ocean between olivine and cianwood
2. Blackthorn trainers
3. The first 2 pokemaniacs in union cave they have 2 marowak n a kanghaskhan
That's 2500 xp n u escape rope out also the ones north are decent after the surf spot north
4. I almost always do lake of rage trainers, the Nido trainer on the way to pryce he's excellent xp, and the trainers east of mahogany
5. In Kanto cal gives good xp in viridian
6. If I still need more xp I go east of pewter do rival and set game to Wednesday n refight rival at pokemon league
I’m not sure if it’s possible, but I would be interested in a video where you compared a slow growth rate pokemon to a version of itself with the optimal growth rate for a speedrun.
I think it would be helpful to give a viewer an idea of just how many levels your losing and/or how much time the extra training costs!
I think he's talked about this on stream, modifying the level curve with a game editor to do a side by side comparison.
I second this. Sort of unrelated, but I personally don't love how levels feature so heavily in tier lists of solo pokemon challenges because it doesn't really capture any useful information about how the pokemon went. If a fast levelling pokemon beats the game at 65, and a slow levelling pokemon beats the game at 50, but they both fight the same trainers and have the same time, why are we caring about level? Might as well consider a pokemon's BST or their movepool.
@@Naxhus2 I think it is because levels determine damage thresholds. Having lower levels is also not good in certain situations in gens 1 and 2 when 1 hit KO moves are in play.
Wow...I was expecting Skarmory to struggle at Lance, but I was NOT expecting the end results being quite the way they were. I keep forgetting how much Skarmory struggles with the harder battles. The Steel type can be just as much of a curse as it is a blessing...
Yeah, I called this. Nice to see Mantine get some love, always did like the giant manta ray.
Skarmory does have a better starting moveset and stats (due to favoring physical attacks), but as the game progresses Mantine's catches up and surpasses Skarmory's. Mantine just has better mid/late game moves, so unless Skarmory can get a huge advantage in the early game, it's lead will slowly get whittled away until Mantine surpasses it. Shame that it doesn't have any good steel type attacks it can learn.
I'm really impressed by HP Ice Mantine. I was so sure Electric would be much better until I saw how important more damage than Icy Wind turned out to be in your second playthrough. Incredible that this big guy managed to be so consistent!
Your jokes about the quintessential Gen 2 moveset makes me imagine a fight where both Pokémon are resting but attacking each each other with sleep talk… then they wake up and start the cycle again. 😂
Watch some competitive gen2 battles and this is what happens (often with curse snorlax)
@@craigyeah1052 ☠️
Must admit, those poll results are surprising
Haha, their absence is surprising too. They were present in the draft version. Not sure when they disapleared
It’s always a good day when Scott drops a video
Scott
I like da Scott man
Approved.
Mantine is just so smiley. It even brought a friend.
Nice. Mantine is probably my fav Gen 2 Pokemon. I knew that it was going to wreck shop, especially once he slapped the HP Ice on it. Glad to see it have such a good showing here.
Scott
Hello Denis.
@@ScottE-2 hello Scott
Sup Denis
@@ericredman6037 hey Eric wassup :)
Hello Denis
MAN as a kid I would have LOVED to get Skarmory (and houndour) in the early-midgame. GAH dangit gamegreak lol
Always nice to see a challenge video. On the subject of rules balance, maybe this would be a situation where egg moves could actually make a difference. I really wonder how starting with drill peck and hydro pump (respectively) would affect both of their performance. Maybe that's something you could apply to a second playthrough? Just an idea, I see the point of keeping them out of the equation overall but this is one of those situations where it would be really cool just to see how the addition of a single egg move affects overall performance
I'm so happy Mantine won this race. It has my favourite cry in all of Pokemon, so seeing it do well made me really happy.
Keep up the good content Scott! Love your work
This is my favorite video of these you've put out so far. I've ALWAYS wanted to do a comparison run like this for these two. Usually I will do other stuff while watching, or skim around if I need to, but I watched this entire thing start to finish with full attention, and the results were quite surprising!
Glad you enjoyed this one so much!
This went about how I expected. Having used Skarmory on a Crystal team before through cheating it in early I remember it's learnset being fairly underwhelming. Mantine is a Water Type, kinda meaning it's solid by default. Basically all Water Types get access to Surf and some Ice moves, which is pretty much all you need for in game playthroughs.
36:37 okay, that transition is clean af
The way the dragonites synced with the music was fun.
The Mantine art looks so cute with the little Remoraid under its wing (:
Already knew from watching Andrew Davis’ video that Skarmory would struggle with Lance.
Poor MetalliCAW...
34:54 - speedrunners that play the game in the traditional way actually face Jasmine as the 7th gym leader. Not saying it's always the fastest with every pokemon, but yeah. You're doing it right..... probably haha
I knew Skarmory would struggle in the lategame, specially because of Lance, but my Arceus i didn't expect to be this bad.
Prediction: Skarm performs better early game cause it has a ton of resistances and is quite durable on the physical side. Mantine might catch up later on though when it gets access to moves like Surf.
Mantine is my absolute favorite gen 2 pokemon, happy to see it in a video.
Edit: even happier to see that it beat skarmory
Special attackers tend to do well in johto, Skarmory is good don't get me wrong. Just Mantine is capable of learning better and more useful moves. Like Ice beam, heck even fly is useful if only just to avoid an attack for one turn.
Woo - great vid! I guessed Mantine due to access to an earlier, great STAB move in the form of surf. The sp. Def bulk helped a lot more than I thought I would. From one classical musician to another - great work, and I appreciate your attention to detail!
The transition between video and ad was very professional. Seamless. Love it
Scott forgets the image for the Poll and says "When I was in Slowfokes Well". Thanks for the content Scott. Enjoy and look forward to it every week.
I am glad to see that Denis is doing well at the lighthouse! It’s always a pleasure to watch a Johto video
11:40 "these Are the results" *blurs the screen*
Wow, thats some surprising results
47:04 I was waiting for GameFreak to introduce the dual-monotypes for a while now, so glad to finally see Venomoth get the Electric/Electric typing it always deserved!
This was one of my favourite, most engaging videos on here for a wee while. I really enjoy the race videos between fully evolved mons. Feels like a no-holds-barred clash and I always find myself emotionally engaged with picking a favourite! I can tell that these videos take a HUGE amount of investment but they're always worth it. Lots of love Scott. Hoping to see Heracross come back in the new ruleset sometime soon 😉
I can’t wait to do Heracross again!
love how you display the asymmitry in their first playthrough with the Lance Vs. Kanto section
Man it feels good to see thumbmail and the exact thought you had is explained in the video in the first 20 seconds
Love the recognition this amazing channel is getting!
Thanks
I find myself watching a lot of your content during my freetime. Gotta say, love your content! Seeing Gen 1 and 2 playthroughs gives me so much nostalgia. Keep up the great work, Scott!
Also.. I couldn't find Dennis in the comments, so "Hi Dennis!"
This one surprised me, Skarmory’s one of the titans of Gen2 competitive. Curse on Mantine to patch up its weaker stats seems pretty strong, too! I’m gonna try it next time I play through Crystal.
Skarmory is a Pokemon that I always thought was a gen 3 Pokemon as a kid. It only appears in route 45, and I don't think many (if any) trainers use it. Meanwhile, he is Steven Stone's signature Pokemon in gen 3.
It's always a good day when Scott's thoughts is not playing a pokemon that knows hypnosis. Also for Mantine wouldn't HP fire be better and general because it works off the special attack stat as HP ground is physical
Always love a Scott’s thoughts video day!
Mantine isn't my favorite Pokémon, but it's one of them (I love gen 2). Great video! I'm happy to see some love for these two awesome gen 2 mons.
I hope u get better soon!
I love mantine, i was so glad when they introduced mantine surfing in gen 7 bc theyre such an overlooked pokemon
Congratulations on 10,000,000 views! Hope you can hit 50,000 subs before the year ends as well. Appreciate all the amazing content you put out
Never used either one of them so I really don't know ^^. Eager to see the results.
Thank for the video in advance, they never dissapoint.
Clefairys doubleslaps Skyarmory which should deal recoil damage… truer words have never been spoken! Another great video Scott! I appreciate all your effort in these vs videos and solo challenges!
Random things I learn by watching these videos: the tier table.
I always assumed it was some weird version of Gaussian distribution but after seeing the tier codes and the time threshold in the end, I had an epiphany. Now it also makes much more sense why there is the "tie-breaker" discussion in the end.
Gonna try and predict the Red fight moveset for Skarmory: Return/Curse/Agility/Rest. Beat the Pikachu and Espeon ASAP, then set up against Snorlax with your insane defense stat and type resist so that you can one-shot the Charizard that would otherwise likely one-shot you.
I can confirm the Vessi shoes are good! Another person recommended them to me, they really work well! Glad you got sponsored by them, was debating on another pair for separate types of walks.
Yay, love it when it shows that competitive performance isn't everything when it comes to a Pokemon being good or bad. Reminds me of Whimsicott vs Lilligant where it's also competitive viability vs solo play viability.
When I seen how detailed your editing was, I knew I couldn't forget to hit the like button
Thanks!
I love your vids m8. And the software you got for yellow now is incredible, with the % chance for a 2 or 3 hit etc. It is just a 25 year old gameboy rpg, but I truly enjoy you playing these games and trying to get the best time. You deserve your succes.
I love catching up on these crystal videos!! The dual electric type Venomoth made me spit out my coffee lmao!
Obi wan kenobi: "You were the chosen one!"
One of the pokemon: *Faints in rebellion*
Been seriously contemplating some Vessis as someone who lives on Vancouver island, walking the dog, going on walks to school with my daughter.
Might be able to use the code. Excited to see how this dual ends up!
Great job as always. I always look forward to your videos
Looking forward to the slowking run
I love mantine. It's underrated designwise and its abilities. It's a cute ray and rays are awesome. Skamory is cool and a childhoods' favorite, I always caught it as a kid, especially in my gen3 playthrougs
I would never have thought that Mantine would manage to not just compete but straight up win against Skarmory this was truly remarkable and I'm so impressed with the flying fish plane.
Wow, Skarmory's Gen 2 moveset is *awful*. Interesting match up. Learning these two have mirrored stats and are next to each other in the Pokedex blew my mind.
Its moveset is fantastic in competitive, especially as a lead. But for a solo challenge? It's terrible.
Does it not learn toxic?
@@meko98743 Skarmory is never seen as a lead other than Gen 3 OU.
Skarmory is one of those Pokemon that you can't help but like, but never want to commit to use. It has its place in competitive, but is a weak link on your team in a playthrough if you don't build your team around it.
There is a very simple rule to understand why Mantine had a way harder time than Skarmory in competitive. Skarmory is a heavily-dedicated physical wall that had no weakness to any of the physical types pre-split, while resisting 4 and being immune to 2 (giving notable immunities to Earthquake and Toxic). For Mantine, it only resists 2 of the pre-split Special types while being doubly weak to another.
I do wish I used skarmory more back in the day. Steel types as well as ground and water are my favorites
What if you had to pick only one
@@justyouraveragechad9354 mudkip
Haha I was SCREAMING when you were using wing attack vs surf lol
So glad you caught that in the second run lol
Awesome video
I really love seeing 2 pokemon race each other. Long time viewer of your channel. Keep up the good work friend
Thanks so much! I will :)
When I first played through Gold version and encountered Mantine for the first time I wanted it right away. Something about the design just drew me in. I'm pretty surprised how good it can be, though. Great job with the optimizations, they kept it pretty competitive in the second playthroughs.
Hey Scott! A bit of a different comment than usual from me, but I wanted to talk about the editing. It might be that Im just getting old, but when everything on screen gets blurred like at 11.40 (which is also missing the poll results btw) my eyes try to adjust to unblur and it gets painful if the blurring stays too long. Graying the rest of the screen out like you do when emphasizing stats would be a better viewing experience, at least for me. Also, I LOVE the editing transitions like at 28.23 where you walk into the medicine house and then its shows you entering the gym. Genius! I've noticed some transitions like this in the past few videos, like engaging the first trainer and then the battle is the last trainer on nugget bridge. Its these tiny details, that just make it flow so much smoother, showing pretty much everything but not EVERYTHING. The video shows you walk into the medicine house, so the rest of that footage can be cut. That is good editing, and done so smoothly by using screen transitions.
Also you say you taught Headbutt over... Headbutt? Never change man!
This blur was supposed t show the poll results in focus on the screen, but show how the graphic got deleted (mysteriously) after the review draft was sent out and final changes were made. I have no idea how it was removed…
They probably didn't evolve the rival's Quilava because the player was already using Chikorita.
A Typhlosion may be considered cruel and unusual punishment, or making fun of the disabled.
This is gonna be a fantastic race! Two great pokemon!
wow
I thought that Mantine would be faster but I didn’t think that it was such a beast! Congratz on the No-reset run with it
Skarmory & Mantine is the most iconic & famous rivalry in Pokemon
Obviously!
Really great playthrough. One of my favorites for sure.
I love this kind of run. A comparison with different types, similar stats. It's at the sweet spot of having enough variety to be fun, but also enough similarity for a comparison to make sense. Also despite how frustrating it was to play Skarmory for Scott the two are ranked next to each other. Very surprising. Tldr: special moves are more versatile in gen 2.
Never thought I would care about scarmory vs mantine but boy do I care now. Great vid.
Your second playthroughs were so satisfying
Didn’t even start the video and I already hit the like button, I love your content so much. I personally prefer Skarmory but my moneys on Mantine
I've always really liked Skarmory and Mantine. Mantine is just so friendly looking and I always liked Mantyke's evolution method, and I have fond memories as a kid of catching a Skarmory in Ruby on the Route with all of the ash (114?). It was always a personal challenge.
I forgot Mantine could learn Curse, but I'm still very pleasantly surprised at how well Skarmory did in the end. I think it got a little overshadowed at the end but Skarmory did quite well in the second playthrough!
oh my wow I didn't see that coming, so thought Skarmory would be better, not by a massive amount, but better. did expect this as a vs vid either, I appreciate the explanation from the start, very concise. I look forward to the next, I would hope it will be just as unexpected, but you've dropped hints to the fiery nature of it, should be fun. still hoping for some Eevees and more from Gen 3
Perfect video for a snowy city day
Thanks for all the good content tho. I'm sure we are all excited to hear what starter you picked in S and V
Hidden Power Rock is very handy over Ground at times (At least it is better than like every other inaccurate Rock move).
Especially against Lance for Physical Attackers who often struggle against him, like Heracross, Machamp, Scizor, or Steelix (Though, Steelix is so slow).
Good thing Scott has a long time before Hidden Power is gone.
Hello Scott and Denis!
I have no idea what to expect, but I'm finally here for it!
Glad to see some mantine representation! It is legitimately one of my favorite Pokemon and it's sad how few people pay any attention to mantine
I absolutely love these jhoto videos man!!! :)
I love how one little hidden power change was able to boost both pokemon so much! I knew hp ground wasn't optimal on Mantine from the moment you chose it, but was thinking you would replace it with electric as opposed to ice, since Mantine didn't have a good way to deal damage to opposing water types. However, ice was probably the better option overall, since icy wind was just short of a ton of important kos in really challenging battles, which matters more than general coverage does. Also, being able to one shot opposing waters doesn't matter too much when these water types can't do too much damage back to Mantine, while the dragons were a threat every time they came up.
Meanwhile, hp rock definitely paid off with skarmory. I too would have gone ground first because of the electric weakness and ability to hit magnemites, but I guess mud slap was good enough for that. The ability to one shot charizards and two shot dragonites was way more important than the ability to ohko late game magnemites and magnetons.
I’ve always loved skarmory but it got pretty shafted in the moveset department in early generations. Glad it was able to bounce back after that first play through
Always a good day when i see Scott upload!
I meant to comment on this earlier but i got distracted 😅 this was a run i didn’t know i needed and i really appreciate that! Skarmory did as well i thought but Mantine did better than i expected! Great job Scott
Thanks so much RJ! Having a bit of a down day right now so this comment picked me up! Thanks so much. I think many people didn’t know that this could be an interesting match, after all it’s a well kept secret that these two are a duo.
@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon I’m so glad my comment picked you up bro and i hope your day gets very much better! I always learn something in your runs and totally didn’t know these two were a duo until you broke it down haha.
I am so happy that the pokemon that won the (initial, at least, haven't watched the rest) challenge won in the way that it did. True "underrated underdog" story.
E: Now that I've watched the whole thing I'm also satisfied with how the second placed pokemon was optimised. Amazing how big a difference that such a small change can make.
Correction, 13:34
Steel types CAN be poisoned in Gen 2 if afflicted due to Twineedle. Bulbapedia also state it
And by the way! Congratulations to you for having sponsors!
Wow, close one! I was rooting for Mantine, great race! Never realized the stat similarities between these two, very cool
Mantine is so weird in that it's hard to find unless you go looking for it. Hell, I don't know if I ever saw one outside of a random Swimmer battle until Colosseum.
And then I loved that damn thing
I clicked through to this because I thought it was interesting you were comparing Mantine to Skarmory.
I knew that they were both Flying types and that they were made a pair of version-exclusives in FireRed/LeafGreen, but I didn't realize they had base stats that reflected each other either. Pretty neat.
Nice video to chill to today.
Hope you do Huntail vs. Gorebyss some time
Scott teaching Mantine Headbutt: I teach it in the place of Headbutt
I looked back over for the Gengar fight as requested, wasn't disappointed xD
I wonder how much time the extra “it’s not very effective” text box that skymory is always getting added to its time over mantine