THE THUNDER SAGA DESTROYED US - Professional Songwriter Reacts: Epic The Musical Analysis/Discussion
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- Опубликовано: 3 июл 2024
- Calxiyn Reacts to EPIC: THE MUSICAL - The Thunder Saga LIVE! In this LIVE REACTION Calxiyn gives her thoughts on The Thunder Saga and finds some hidden secrets with the instrumentation and leitmotifs, talks about the themes, characterization, and provides a first-impression based analysis! If you're looking for a place to discuss, analyze and theorize, welcome!
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“Eurylochus light 6 torches” Oh God…. whoever’s holding a torch is an easy target, and Odysseus knew that. He knew, HE KNEW!!!!! He knew that 6 of his men would die, and he thought that was an acceptable sacrifice! It was not a decision he made lightly and he doesn’t feel good about it, but he still did it.
“You’re quiet today”
“…Not much to say…”
This could imply that Odysseus still feels guilt over his actions and isn't a complete monster, yet.
I’m pretty sure he wanted Eury to be one of the sacrifices after that confession. I’m also pretty sure him dying there prevents Mutiny
That dialogue thing happened before he sacrificed the men. It probably means he's nervous about the plan
not only was he not Guiltless... you could argue he saved the ship from unnecessary damage and possibly more than 6 men dying due to the struggle in the dark.
I also think that maybe the reason why Odysseus didn't want to talk is because they've had these conversations before. You can hear in one of the other songs how they say "Everything's changed since Polites" and so what would be the point of having another conversation about the guilt that he feels? I think it's definitely that he felt a little guilty about the plan but also even in general, I feel like Odysseus knows that no good could come from a conversation. He's tried to tell the crew he's fine multiple times when he clearly wasn't.
Idk if I'm fucking crazy but that's what you fucking get?? He literally opened the bag. They would have been home?????? Fuck you eurylochus? They would have been home years ago if the bag stayed shut. He then tried to sacrifice everyone to circe to escape. Hell dude he shot the sheep of polyphemus dude. None of any of this shit would have happened if eurylochus died in the trojan war. Then he killed his entire crew or his captain with 0 care for repercussions when he killed the cow. HE GAVE UP AGAIN. LIKE COME ON DAWG. They guilt tripped odysseus into thinking he was the only person to blame and essentially told him to give up his ideals. So he became rutheless. Handing out the torches to the six sacrifices was for sure ruthless but they made him like that. and then he still got upset at odysseus like he didnt know what he would choose since they turned him into a ruthless monster. And back on the hypocrite train but LITERALLY A DAY AFTER GETTING MAD AND FIGHTING ODYSSEUS FOR SACRFICING MEN, HE THEN GOES ON TO SACRIFICE THE ENTIRE CREW SO HE COULD GET HIS PROTEIN IN. LIKE DUDEEEEEE. The point isn't odysseus did nothing wrong.the point is they really gaslight him into thinking he was the only person who did wrong.
I also thought that the line “You know we’re not gonna make it home” was telling us that Eurylochus and the crew no longer had any hope for survival. Their last hope was their Captain, and he had proved capable of sacrificing them either way just to get home, so eating the cattle was them just dying on their own terms.
Yeah we talked about that at the end of the stream, I didn't realize it on the first watch until we went back to it but I agree! They basically wanted a semblance of control instead of being tossed around by Odysseus, dying at sea/starving, or dying by the gods.
He wouldn't have been surprised the in Thunderbringer.
"But we'll all die."
@@kriszgamer0013 He didn't sound surprised to me, he sounded more resigned like he knew he was gonna die that day.
@@ohood1788 But why would he ask then?
"Captain?"
"I have to see her."
"But we'll all die."
"I know."
And if they were planning to die anyway, why run from the island?
@@kriszgamer0013 I mean, she already talked about it in the video, but I think it’s believable that even when you think you want to die, there’s a semblance of self-preservation and survival instinct that activated when they realized they were *really* going to die, so they tried to escape.
As for Thunderbringer, Eurylochus doesn’t sound surprised to me. His voice sounds more like looking for confirmation than asking a genuine question.
(The only thing that kinda disproves this theory is that in the live stream, the animatic that was shown when Zeus was gonna kill the crew was them attacking Odysseus, but I guess we could say they were frustrated by all the events since they left Troy: fighting, starving, seeing so many of them die, and finally their captain is the one who decides their fates)
Not sure if this is the planned reason but Poseidon refusing to go near the strait of Scylla could be more an act of grief than fear. You see, the strait of Scylla is inhabited by two monsters. Scylla herself and Charybdis. Scylla has various origins but Charybdis really only has one.
She was a loyal demigod daughter of Poseidon but due to a conflict with Zeus was cursed into a mindless monster. Poseidon's refusal to enter the strait could be out of his grief over his daughter's tragic fate and the knowledge that he can do nothing to save her.
THAT'S SO MESSED UP!!! It's always Zeus at the scene of the crime skskskks. Maybe that's why Scylla basically said "you're just like me for real" because Zeus made Scylla and Odysseus into monsters.
@@CalxiynCaresTooMuch Agreed Zeus is kind of the worse but his curse wasn't for no reason. I've found two reasons. The first had Charybdis use her power to drown islands so they'd become her father's domain and the other had her steal Heracles's Oxen. Still a messed up curse though.
As for Scylla she's a bit more interesting. Some believe she's just a natural born monster but others have it that she was a beautiful nymph in love with an ocean god only to be cursed by another lover which fits more with her, "you're just like me." view of Odysseus. Both of them just wanted to be in love but the world forced them into becoming monsters.
@@jasonsmith6219"the other lover" being Circe
Scylla was in love with a merman who Circe also loved@@jasonsmith6219
@@jasonsmith6219 There's also another version where Scylla is a daughter of Poseidon and Princess Lamia. So double emotional baggage for Poseidon & Fam if we go by OP's thing that's two daughters of his in that strait.
Athena’s watching Odysseus throughout the saga, you can hear her instrumentation in different songs that show she’s “present”
I don't know if this happens during Circe but the fact it happens so clearly here is NUTS.
@@CalxiynCaresTooMuch Its been a reoccurring theme throughout since she left. In fact she is in the Circe sage. Hermes was sent as a messenger by Athena to help Odysseus this is told subtly through the vocal backing in the chorus being sung by the voice of Athena.
She’s probably so proud tbh
@@XSweetCherryBlossomXprobably more like “See, I told you, too bad you had to learn the hard way.”
@@Logicalleaping that was Athena's voice???
I like how we're mentionning the Sirens as a food source when they could, i dunno make a good sacrifice to Scylla as well lol
Lol don't worry we got there eventually!
There is every chance Scylla wouldnt kill the sirens as they are kind of her sisters in a way
There's no guarantee that Scylla would take the sirens, in fact for all Odysseus knew she could've saved them instead
@@pixlv6384 true, but then Odysseus has an excuse for the 6 men sacrifice loo
@@thesilvereyes4987 well, Scylla can only take six because it's only one for each mouth to eat
I was wondering what Eurylochus wanted to tell Odysseus and the beginning of Puppeteer.
He betrayed Odysseus' trust, probably thinking he’s the cause of the 557 deaths and why Odysseus was too late to see his mother. There must be so much guilt inside his heart.…
It's crazy because I thought it was just "I want to talk to you in private" like because of that other scene where Odysseus told him not to question his judgement in public. So I thought that he was going to just want to talk to Odysseus about his plans again. I did NOT expect him to be the one that opened the bag
It is 100% his fault for opening the bag. It’s not shown in the music, but Ithaca was within eyesight when the bag was owner. They were almost home!
honestly, i would’ve give Eurylochus one of the torch in scylla’s lair after that confession.
@@justanormalpeeps3938 I’m pretty sure in the live stream the animatic used had Eurylochus holding a torch but then he passed it on after seeing the others holding a torch dying
@Intotheabyss1988
But then Poseidon would have flood Ithaca.
I think for the whole giving Scylla the Siren bodies.
I think part of the characterization of Scylla is that shes not just grabbing them to eat but also that the sacrificing a comrade is important to her, that to journey through her lair you must care only for yourself and allow your crew or friends to be picked off by her.
Yeah that’s an excellent point!
at first i thought scylla was hearing everything going on and her singing is in response. Then when Ody tells Eurylochus to grab the torches, its like hes reacting to what Scylla just witnessed from the dark. Like his gamble is that she sympathizes with him or relates and accepts his sacrifice. Ody is always reading the room. He must have known she was listening.
i believe that Scylla was definitely talking to Ody the whole time. "you know that we are the same.... leaving them feeling betrayed.... breaking the bonds that you made... there is no price we won't pay" Scylla is surely talking to Ody and Eurylochus has been trying to tell Ody about the bag since washing up on Circe's shore.
Yeah someone else mentioned that in some myths, Zeus turns Scylla into the monster. So with that information I feel like she's saying "Zeus made me into a monster, just like he made you into a monster, there's nothing we can do about it!"
@@CalxiynCaresTooMuchZeus transformed Charybdis, not Scylla. Charybdis is a different monster that lives in the same area as Scylla
@@CalxiynCaresTooMuchit was Circe who poisoned the water and made Scylla the monster
I definitely wouldnt use Hades 2 as a good representation of what Scylla looks like haha
Shes a massive horrific monster with multiple heads
Yeah when chat said she has 6 heads I had no idea LMAO
The whole crew betraying Odysseus makes sooo much sense!! Even if he won his fight with Eurylochus, why would they follow him? He just sent 6 of his men to their deaths, who’s to say he wouldn’t do it again? And it’s not just this instance where Odysseus killed his own men. When he told the Cyclops his name he earned Poseidon’s ire and lost Athena’s favor. If he didn’t do that then 557 men wouldn’t have died and they’d be back home by now.
Nah, if it wasn’t for the idiots opening the bag, they would have 100% made it home. Ithaca was within in sight when that bag was opened, and then they went and ate the sacred cows- that’s all on them. In the book they were explicitly warned to NOT do that. One of creative liberties taken is Poseidon killing the men there, in the book it was a ship battle that killed most of the men. Poseidon doesn’t show up till Odysseus is all alone at the end before he reaches home.
@@Intotheabyss1988Poseidon most likely would've taken the fight to Ithaca instead, and then there would be even more casualties
@@Intotheabyss1988At least in Epic, Poseidon was coming to kill Ody anyway because he stupidly doxxed himself. The bag only guaranteed that fight happened at the sea and not on Ithaca. Spoilers for an upcoming snippet but
If you’ve seen Get In the Water he clearly doesn’t mind drowning all of Ithaca
And poor Elpenor wouldn’t of died and nobody noticed or cared from drinking wine from a chalice on top of Circe’s palace and fall and break his neck in shame
@@ClassicSonicAndJayLightningGod but what does Odysseus care? So many deaths happen under his reign
You have no idea the hype that just entered my heart when I saw that one of my go-to reactors from my RWBY days was now diving into my current obsession let’s gooooo
Oh crap it’s Mortius in the wild- can’t wait to see your reaction to this
Honestly, I think Odysseus making syrens drown is just "eye for an eye". Syrens would have drown his crew. He drowns them instead
Ohhh that's a smart way to interpret it. I think that mentality is going to be a problem though.
I wonder if Eurylochus opened the bag because of curiosity - or if it was because the rest of the crew had wanted to? Since his debut, he's always advocated for the crew. Eurylochus' only concern has been the betterment of the soldiers and getting the ones who've survived home safely, so it doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility that they came to Eurylochus asking him to open the bag for them.
And that's why he was so guilt-ridden? Because if he'd been more loyal to the captain than the crew, and quashed any resistance like Odysseus had asked, all those men would be alive?
And in regard to the "he got over 500 men killed and Odysseus only sacrificed 6 men", the difference was that (much like Odysseus with the cyclops) Eurylochus didn't INTEND to have those men killed. It was a failed attempt at solving a problem which inevitably led to the Poseidon Debacle. Besides, Poseidon killing 500 men wasn't because they opened the bag, it was because Polyphemus was blinded. Poseidon would have sunk every ship regardless of if they were blown away from Ithica or not
With Scylla, Odysseus actively chose to throw six men's lives away for the sake of his own life (not for the rest of the crew, because if Scylla had demanded for 12, 30, or 50 men - Odysseus would have given up everyone and sailed the rest of the way home by himself just to see Penelope). That's something neither of them have done, which unsurprisingly disturbed Eurylochus
I don't think a siren sacrifice would have worked with Scylla: one of the reasons why she kills men is because she used to be a nymph, blames Glaucus' and his affection for Circe turning her into a monster in a fit of jealousy. HOWEVER. Odysseus still should have tried. Because at least he wouldn't lose all of his men's trust in one go.
Spoiler?? Basically im gonna talk about greek mythology lore
It sucks because it was either Scylla or Charybdis and most people went with Scylla because a guaranteed loss of six people was better then risking the entire crew so it makes sense that Odysseus would choose that but he didn't explain that or even try to come up with a plan
Eurylochus knows these are Helios’ cattle, he knows the consequences of eating them, and he doesn’t care.
10 years of fighting a worthless war. 2 years on the sea as they sail from one tragedy to the next.
Watching Polities’ head get caved in, Poseidon drowning 557 men, Circie turning his friends into mindless pigs, going into the literal Underworld full of all your dead comrades, and watching your closest friend become a monster
He’s tired. He’s so very tired. He just wants their suffering to end.
I'm not sure what timestamp you're at but we do discuss this by the end of the stream! Like at first I thought he was being careless but this is him choosing how to die. He doesn't want to die out at sea or by starving, he truly believes they will never make it home.
43:48 I dont think Zeus is gonna do it
A few seconds later
Zeus: I'm literally a Zeus I can do whatever I want
😭😭😭😭😭 I thought it was reverse psychology I can’t believe this
The way I've interpreted it is that Odysseus' initial punishment to Eurylochus is handing out the torches. Eurylochus opening the bag unknowingly cost the lives of 551 men (edited from 557 to account for the ones Polyphemus killed) because it gave Poseidon a chance to catch them, so Odysseus makes him be the one to essentially pick which six die without Eurylochus realizing. Then, for starting the mutiny and killing Helios' cow, comes the choosing his crew to die instead. I... can't say Eurylochus didn't deserve it; and he's projecting too considering he's like "you just sacrificed six of us!" after being the reason Poseidon got to them and wanted to leave the pig-turned ones.
Agreed! He is the biggest one at fault. Add in the fact that in the written story, the crew is explicitly told to NOT eat the cows or they’d anger the gods makes it extra bad.
@@Intotheabyss1988and they made the same mistake like in the polyphemus’s cave, getting too hungry, kill an animal, people died.
Poseidon was gonna try to kill Ody anyway because he doxxed himself like an idiot. The bag thing just decided where it happened, either at sea or in Ithaca. Making Eury mark 6 friends for a brutal death (and potentially himself) was borderline malicious, nobody’s gonna follow a leader like that. At least the bag opening was an honest mistake.
@@Phasmania an honest mistake? when ody has explicitly said that it was the storm that was trapped in the bag knowing full well what the gods are capable of, and a hypocrite of how he speaks with odysseus decision to sacrifice 6 men when he literally in circe's island was ready to leave all of the men that turned into pigs
@@Phasmania and another thing its not like ody knew polyphemus was poseidons son he only knows that the cyclops have cometely broken their agreement when the cyclops fully accepted the gift but still kills his men anyways so him saying his name was supposed to be a reflection for the cyclops that he should remember the day that the cyclops made a mistake, like in the original odyssey the gods also agree that the cyclops was also somewhat in the wrong
Oh Odysseus tried to kill off Eurylochus just was lucky he survived long enough to not get eaten and passed the torch in time to survive. Now I'm assuming the Odysseus we are following and is just incredibly smart and knows lots about the creatures of the ocean.
That's NUTS
It is also very likely that as an island kingdom they would know a lot about ocean monsters so him knowing he can get past scylla by feeding her isnt too out of the question.
I think one really interesting thing is that both Odysseus' attempt to be merciful with the cyclops and his attempt to be ruthless with the sirens kind of ends up with him just being cruel in the exact same way, maiming them and leaving them to their fate.
Man can't do ANYTHING right LOL. He's such a boyfailure 😭✊😭✊ But yeah that's why I think the idea of the Aristotle theory is so interesting because if moral virtue lies in the middle, Odysseus was "too merciful" with the Cyclops and here Odysseus was "Too cruel". Odysseus really took the wrong lesson from Poseidon and Athena, because I don't think either of them meant endless cruelty (at least Athena didn't, she wanted him to just use his brain LOL)
@@CalxiynCaresTooMuch I agree 100%. I honestly think he really could have benefitted from a lesson from the one god he opted out of seeing when he had the chance, Hades.
So in the Odyssey, It is the cattle of Helios, because Apollo only got conflated with the god of the sun during roman synchronization, and Homer wrote it before that. That's why many stories have Helios as the one driving the sun chariot, and then apollo taking over: Because he originally did, and when apollo became the sun god in Rome, it became his job
Thank you for the lore! I've heard people explain it like there are the titans and then after a certain point the next generation of gods "take over" from the titans but because of Hades II I was like "APOLLO?!?!!" Lol. Some people think Jorge left it vague on purpose because he didn't want to confirm whether it was Helios or Apollo.
@@CalxiynCaresTooMuch I love mythology and history, so it's always fun to discuss it. As a general rule what you said about titans being overthrown by the gods is true, but it's not as hard cut in the actual myths. There were Titans who supported Zeus and the gods, and worked under him as their king, and because mythology isn't solid, but a living religion, which Titans and Gods had which roles changed over time. But yeah, as a general rule, most of the titans lost their roles when the gods took over. And I'm sure Jorge did intentional not say a name, so as to not cause confusion
@@JoshuaHillmanatorHillmani doubt it will stay vague for long. we know apollo will appear in god games, and i assume his verse will be anger about his cows. and athena making his case by arguing that odysseus tried to stop the cow from being killed.
tangent but - i am curious as to what hephaestus’ verse in god games will be. him and hera don’t have any big reason to care one way or the other, but we have hera’s verse and know that that’s the point of hers (so many heroes, so many tales) and athena is able to make a case for ody’s loyalty to his wife. but i can’t see “i don’t really care about him, what makes him so good” being TWO verses… does hephaestus just carry a petty grudge against anyone who drops a baby 😭
Six torches for the six heads of Scylla
I thought it was six torches for the six men he was sacrificing
@@EmRose.r that's what i'm saying: six men (marked with torches) for the six heads of scylla
@@EmRose.ryeah, the six men with the six torches were the ones who died
Yeah basically you need 6 torches to light up the 6 men so Scylla's 6 heads will get to eat
Yeah thats why ody lit the torches for 6 men, he was planning on sacrificing them. Thats why at the beginning of the song eurylochus says "youre quiet today". He's nervous and regretful of his plan.
Hyperion was the titan of the sun. helios is usually seen more as the embodiment but it differs and hes been called titan and god in certain things. I think those were helios's cattle but im not too sure
I’m pretty sure the myth specifies them as Helios’s cattle
Yeah, it is Helios' cattle specifically (as @dragonstouch1042 says), not Apollo (but the two of them get switched up all the time, it depends on myth and probably time period? Correct me if I'm wrong). But I think Helios also drives the sun chariot (which makes him conflict with Apollo, as stated before) while Hyperion is a more personification/representation of broader concepts of light. That all might not be 100% factual, but that's what I know.
@@squidyminegaming3314yes. Apollo only became the Sun god around the time of the Romans as a bit of backwards synchronism. So at this time Helios is the god of the Sun. Hyperion is also a Sun-god of sorts but Helios was really the one that was worshipped.
I agree that Eurylochus' line "If you want all the power, you must carry all the blame" is an absolute BAR but the irony of it drives me crazy. Eurylochus is saying this right as he is actively taking the power from Odysseus in a mutiny and yet he himself refuses to take the blame for his own contributions to the lives lost in the past, including not only the lives cost from the wind bag but delegating the six men to light the torches (which was why Odysseus gave him that order in the first place, it's like a microcosm of the 600 men he shares equal weight in the loss of). Yes Eurylochus has carried his own guilt quietly, but he still let Odysseus bear the weight of the 600 men alone until Odysseus had already turned himself into a monster, and now he has the gall to criticize him for all the lives of the crew that were lost. He is telling Odysseus to take all the blame for the lives cost on their journey but in that very moment he is the one seeking to have all the power through a mutiny. I guess it just goes to show how inadequate of a leader he ends up being even though I completely empathize with his reasoning.
EDIT: That ended up being a massive word salad, unfortunately, but my point was it was just ironic Eurylochus is saying 'you want the power? you take the blame!' meanwhile HE is the one wanting the power but offloading the blame. I do empathize with Eurylochus' position but bro does NOT take enough accountability here.
I dunno if Eurylochus specifically wants the power, i just think he doesnt trust that odysseus cares about the lives of the crew (which to be fair). Like i think he does understand and feel guilty for his actions its just that he would never intentionally bring harm to his crew, like hes clearly been wracked with guilt for opening the bag, he might even know that hes not a good leader, hes extremely emotional and impulsive. I personally see it less as him seizing power for himself and just seeing no way he can leave power with ody without endangering his crew or having them be sacrificial pawns.
I mean its not like odysseus told any of them "were going to scyllas lair, itll be dangerous, we might lose 6 people" he went in with them blind and specifically marked 6 sacrificial lambs, it might be a bit unfair to put the handing out torches on eurylochus part to be him causing those deaths.
NOT to mention he orchestrated this mutiny and his immediate act as captain was to kill that cow, EVEN THO ODY SAID DONT. And then it summoned Zeus and he had the gall to be like “captain??” Like my brother he ain’t your captain anymore, you made that call yourself, you want all the power? Take all the blame!
Oh my gosh so like you, I am going in completely blind. So when Eurylochus claimed that he opened the bag, I got so excited that I called it from everything that I thought that was foreshadowing. Like Eurylochus losing trust in Luck runs out so of course when he said that he had a secret in the Circe saga, it was him that opened it. Also Aeolus saying “keep your friends close and your enemies closer” and I was thinking that Eurylochus could have been both (now knowing he is) and then when the prophet sung about “portrayals of betrayals and a brother’s final stand” I immediately thought of Eurylochus because before I found out about how Eurylochus is Odysseus actual brother in law, he said in puppeteer that Eurylochus was like a brother.
It's insane because I never thought it was about the bag, I thought it was about Odysseus' mental health and that moment where Odysseus is like "stop questioning me in public bro" which happened before the bag. It's crazy to think he opened the bag and how that was foreshadowed the entire time but it never occurred to me!
@@CalxiynCaresTooMuchI mean I don’t know if that was what the foreshadowing was about but I definitely thought about Eurylochus when the prophet spoke about a brother’s final stand/portrayals of betrayal.
I have a theory for 42:35 We know that gods like Athena and Zeus can show visions of someone’s past and future respectively, and we first saw this with Zeus in the very first song ‘The Horse and the Infant’, when he showed Odysseus a vision of what would happen if he didn’t kill the infant and keep in mind that he was alone when this happened. Now in ‘Thunder Bringer’, Odysseus saw another vision of Penelope but none of his men had mentioned it as one of Zeus’s visions, so either that “Penelope” was another vision way for the God to lower Ody’s guard or the King had been away from his home for so long that he started becoming delusional and his mind brings her up to keep his sanity in tact.
I'm glad to see someone else also thinks the same as me when it comes to Eurylochus and the crew killing the cow! To me they just sounded depressed, done and ready to go. And they later started escaping because they saw a god making a dramatic entrance to smite them and that sparked instinctual adrenaline and panic, self-preservation basically. And at the end, when Eurylochus asks "captain?" And says "we'll die". He sounds more sad that his friend who he considered a brother would throw him and his crew away for his own survival, rather than surprised or anything. Of course I may be wrong and he truly just did a silly, but even so, I'd prefer to headcanon it this way because it makes it more tragic. I liked Eurylochus and feel bad, even though both he and Ody were dum dums.
Tbh my main “problems” I guess with the new one are that Warrior of the Mind feels like it has all the energy and the triumphant feel sucked out of it (due to the brass section being way quieter, which also makes the choruses feel a bit same-y to me), the new Lotus Eater voices in Open Arms (they sound too actively awarely malicious to me), and a small music/tone change in Zeus’ part of Horse and the Infant (the way it rises in the beginning of “he will burn your house and throne” which makes it sound like they’re talking past eachother to me. Which might work for Zeus in other scenarios, but in that section he’s directly responding to Ody so it just makes them feel too seperate)
I can still learn to love them over time I think, but idk
However the remaster did make Cyclops Saga from a 5/10 to a 8,5/10 to me, so no complaints there
I'll have to listen out for those things again, but I thought the exact same thing about Warrior of the Mind and then I listened to it on my headphones. I'm sure if you're commenting like, you've tried that haha. It's just crazy how the device you are using to listen to the music can change the balance of certain instruments, because I was like "oh no, Warrior of the Mind sounds really hallow this is bad" and then I listened to it again and I was blown away.
Re: Lotus Eaters, that's interesting cause I felt the opposite, they felt more dumb to me this time. But I wouldn't be surprised if maybe them being malicious is part of the theme, like they knew the Cyclops lived there and sent the crew there on purpose. Because Odysseus does say that he would burn down their home, that wasn't very nice... LOL. They changed something about Open Arms that made me actually want to listen to it so I'll take that as a win.
Yeah I think Odysseus gets way more emotional in the Cyclops Saga now, you can hear the pain and quiet disbelief in his voice about Polites now.
I feel the mixing on the Troy Saga got a bit messed up as I do get that same feeling with The Horse and the Infant. And idk if anyone else had this, but it sounds almost like the start of Full Speed Ahead’s music is corrupted. The vocals sound fine but the music sounds LQ for some reason.
I need to relisten to Open Arms, I didn’t hear too much other than you can actually tell what the Lotus Eaters said, especially ones with unique lines where you couldn’t hear them easily originally.
The Cyclops saga really only got better except I liked the screams of the killed crew in the original, but the rest really work great.
Time for my random thoughts nobody asked for. I did see a lot of people call Eury a hypocrite for being mad about the 6 men thing when previously he was all too happy to sacrifice people. I see it differently.
“Everything’s changed since Polites” because it really has. Ody has changed and he almost never listens to Eury causing Eury to take matters into his own hands. The opening of the bag was stupid but the reason for it was Eury losing his trust in his captain along with the rest of the crew.
This lack of trust continues on all the way till Scylla. The real thing Eury is mad about in my opinion is that Odysseus is no longer the same person, he’s changed to a monster Eury doesn’t trust anymore. The 6 men thing is a big deal because it’s something Ody would never do. Eury doesn’t disagree with “You know you’d have done the same” after all. Because it is something Eury would do, but not Odysseus, and that was the final straw in a sense.
As for the cows in the end, when your trust is betrayed so much, you tend not to listen to the person anymore. The crews thinking isn’t good but it’s a result of Ody’s actions. I do love thinking about it.
If you think no one asked for your thoughts, don't worry: I ASK. I AM ALWAYS ASKING!! 🥰🥰🥰🥰
YEAH I SAID THE EXACT SAME THING IN A REPLY TO SOMEONE ELSE. Everyone is focused on who is to blame but in reality it was never about the bag. Opening the bag was literally a metaphor for Odysseus' baggage and how he is trying to hide how Polites' death impacted him. Eury opened the bag because Odysseus was hiding something and the storm was a physical manifestation of the storm in Odysseus' heart. And as long as Odysseus was struggling they would have never made it home. When Odysseus makes the change he's gone through known ("I CAN'T" When he says he can't justify his actions anymore), for better or worse that's what needed to be exposed. They needed to know the truth about Odysseus and they decided they'd rather take their chances with the gods then with Odysseus, because Odysseus is the same as the gods!
At first I thought Odysseus had a daughter but when I heard him say that he has no daughter I was like: " Great job the Sirens are the liars" and I can't wait for the other Sagas to come out
Yeah I was thinking the same thing, like maybe that Odysseus' wife was pregnant right after he left for the war so the daughter would be 10 LOL
@@CalxiynCaresTooMuch I forgot to add that the Sirens are dumb! srry and this is my first comment that I got now from another RUclipsr thx for the reply!
Bahahah, no problem! Yeah I didn't know if the Sirens had actual magic and were reading Odysseus' mind and he was just planting incorrect thoughts or if she was just a little dumb XD
@@CalxiynCaresTooMuchin the odyssey as I remember it it was more like they called him by name personally, praising how awesome he was … and promising him wisdom like that was the siren song, an ego trip and that’s what drew men to their doom, and Odysseus wanted to see what the siren song was so he had his men fill their ears with wax but not his (classic Odysseus move, he always thought he was better than everyone else and always pushed it like that), and had them tie him to the mast and went crazy trying to get there demanding they release him so he could swim to the sirens who were calling to him singing about how awesome he was, using his name. Definitely mind reading powers for sure, they wouldn’t have made this stupid mistake they do here… that’s not effective hunting as predators they wouldn’t have survived much and had too many people escaping.
Translation of original siren song:
“Come closer, famous Odysseus-Achaea’s pride and glory-
moor your ship on our coast so you can hear our song!
Never has any sailor passed our shores in his black craft
until he has heard the honeyed voices pouring from our lips,
and once he hears to his heart’s content sails on, a wiser man.
We know all the pains that Achaeans and Trojans once endured
on the spreading plain of Troy when the gods willed it so-
all that comes to pass on the fertile earth, we know it all!”
Fits perfectly because odyssey is a prideful guy who thinks he’s the smartest guy who ever lived and above everyone (I mean the cyclops shit… in the odyssey I think he just wanted to gloat and crow his victory). But you can hear it like when he talks to Poseidon gives that shitty half assed non apology… and the way he talks to Athena… he is still that guy who’s main flaw isn’t his soft heartedness, but his ego and hubris and I think Jay really works that in.
I like this portrayal of the siren song as pretending to be Penelope and the changes Jorge made so far are brilliant I think, also them copying Penelope’s voice… only thing I think I disagree with is that they had the daughter mistake. They should have kept it the son, but maybe had the son be too young,,, like not as old as he should be, which maybe could be a give away, much subtler and seems like a mistake they could make cause Odysseus thinks about his son as a younger kid cause he only knew him as a baby.
i tuned in almost at the end of the live and had to go back and rewatch what i'd missed cause your takes are so good and i agree with almost all of them! i was very happy to see you analysing the situation from eurylochus and the crew's point of view too, i think too many people are getting caught in the "who's to blame" question when the situation is so much more complex and interesting than that. their reasoning for eating the cows even though everyone clearly knows it's a bad idea is heartbreaking, but it also makes sense for a group of men who've spent years at war (also away from their families!), watched hundreds of their friends die violently and were literally starving. i think, from how defeated he sounds, eurylochus knew what the outcome was gonna be the second zeus asked odysseus to choose, but it still hurt.
the equivalent exchange theory and how you relate aristotle's golden mean concept to epic and odysseus' morality are so interesting! i'll definitely be thinking about them while we wait for the wisdom saga!
also while the greek gods aren't exactly omniscient there's always someone watching, ready to snitch. helios himself sees everything from his chariot of course but he's also notorious for being very nosy, he'd clock everything immediately. just look at how quickly he told on them to zeus and asked for punishment lmaoo. he could still totally punish odysseus if he wanted to cause gods are like that but the rest of the men would definitely still pay.
Well, I think that’s why Zeus gives Odysseus the choice, he was the one begging them not to kill the cows
@@dragonstouch1042 ooh could be, yeah! i wasn't sure why he decided to give him a choice beyond just him enjoying the parallels lol but that makes sense!
Thank you so much! Yeah I think people have the wrong focus, it shouldn't be "who is to blame" but rather what do the characters' actions tell us about the themes? I feel like on a more symbolic level, the crew has known the entire time that Odysseus is hiding something. They say everything has changed since what happened to Polites. And so I feel like opening the bag, even though people are saying it's stupid (and it was) was a symbolic representation of how they felt like Odysseus was hiding something and wasn't trustworthy anymore. And obviously they were wrong about the bag but it was never REALLY about the bag.
Yeah that's what I was thinking, someone is always ready to snitch at the scene of the crime 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂
You speak in CAPSLOCK
Hello very easy misunderstanding, in the oddessey it references the cows on the island being helios cows
Yeah chat told me, I got too excited about Apollo because of Hades 2 lol. But yeah especially if it was Helios there was no way they could talk their way out of that, man sees EVERYTHING
@@CalxiynCaresTooMuchin the og story, they were also explicitly warned to NOT kill the cows, and Odysseus wanted to follow that, but his crew went and killed them to “sacrifice” to a god (they just wanted the meat)
“A vision. Of what is to come, cannot be outrun. Can only be dealt with right here, and now. Tell me how. I don’t think you’re ready.” -Zeus in the horse and the infant
“Surround him. Attack from behind, keep distance in mind and stay in his blind spot. And strike his heels.” - Ody in Survive
“Some island, the first one we found. It's bursting with cows just roaming around. Begging us to eat, so much meat. And hunger is so heavy
This statue. The God of the Sun. Don't know where it's from. But here's where we found all these cows to hunt. Right in front. And hunger is so heavy.” Eurylochus in Mutiny
These are all the same motif from Zeus.
You’re right! I’d have to check if the rhyme structure is the same but at least for the ending rhymes we have “Ready”, then Odysseus says “show him that we’re DEADLY” and then Eury says “Heavy”.
@@CalxiynCaresTooMuch the music is obviously masking it a little but the lyrics follow the same structure
It did IT DESTROYED ME! He was SO RUTHLESS with those sirens, and then he literally sacrificed 6 of his FRIENDS, didn’t deny it- TRIED TO KILL EURY- THEN JUST LET ALL OF THEM DIE BY THE HAND OF ZEUS
I really thought Zeus was just bluffing and was gonna say "I just wanted your crew to know you'd sacrifice them all tehehe goodbye" I really gaslit myself
@@CalxiynCaresTooMuch Fr! But I don’t think Zeus is the kind to bluff 😅 But because they did commit that crime someone had to die, and I just find it really interesting that Zeus gave Ody the choice between himself or his entire crew. It just really shows how much Zeus doesn’t care what happens and just likes testing Ody. Because there are A LOT of parallels from the Horse and the Infant from Zeus’s first test. But also Ody choosing his crew to die just really shows how desperate he wants to get home and that he will stop at nothing until he gets there.
Well to be fair, he was kind of just doing what literally EVERY DIETY HAS TOLD HIM TO DO. Poseidon told him to be ruthless, Athena told him to get the job done, and Zeus said that he must pick who’s blood would be on his hands. Overall I think he’s just so done putting himself in front of risks
@@FungalHarmony Yuppp, don’t mess with the gods 😬
38:05 Odysseus says in this line “ *I* need to get home” at 24:16 he says “it almost ended *my* life”. this shows Odysseus is slowly becoming selfish and only caring about his life as he could’ve said “ *we* need to get home”, “it almost ended *our* lives”. But he only cares about his wife and child, he is only out to see them, not to get everyone else back home, just saying
And in the final song of the saga he chooses his life over his crews
Oh shit, that Odysseus line is CRAZY
@@CalxiynCaresTooMuch actually he only says that for the first one, the second one he does we "we"
more specifically he first syas "I need to get home" then he says "we can get home"
also with the line "It almost ended my life" i don't have a problem as saying "it almost ended our lives" would be a lie.
almost is defined as "not quite; very nearly."
saying it almost ended our lives means that it didn't end lives at all, but it did cost the lives of 558 (557??). + it was a one on one conversation and even if others were involved you can still reference only yourself.
i like to imagine that zeus appears in a lightning strike on the boat/ slightly above it, and just slicks back his hair with a smile youd see on a bully cornering a victim.
"welcome to pain train bishes"
"The trick is they died" Thank you Delecy for cracking me up so hard
😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭 I GOT ONE-GUYED BY ZEUS
Okay so did some research: it was Helios' cattle in the actual Odyssey, but given snippets of a later song I've heard I strongly believe that itll be Apollo's cattle in Epic. That said, Helios IS first and foremost a Titan whereas Apollo is a God, but both are associated with the sun. However, i will say that many Titans, specifcally the ones who were either neutral or backed the Gods in the Titanomachy, would go on to be referred to as Gods after the change in power from Kronos to Zeus.
I might have a problem.. but Oddyseus slowly becoming a monster and deciding killing everyone in order to be with his wife and kid... is kinda Anakin in star wars 3. I'm not saying it's the same story! ... but I am saying animating Oddyseus as darth vader would be very funny!
I mean they both command men in war, they both ride ships, they both traded the world for their wives, they both killed children for their own, they're both the monster raw raw raw!
Okay i do have a problem.. i think i might have Stockholm syndrome, so im going home...
A-alright… get well soon.
My man just Sharkfin soup'd the Sirens... Dark sh*t
I don't think he actually ate them which is the crazy part... after all that work
@@CalxiynCaresTooMuch I was mainly referring to cutting the tail/fin off and then throwing them back in the sea, sadly that happened to a lot of sharks.
Also people do not see how much "will" Odysseus has, he is ready to push further and further until they reach home, while his crew instead of looking up to their captain and King, they decide to give up.
After everything that happened Odysseus still has the will and faith that they will manage to reach home, and Odysseus still pushes forward but his crew completely gives up, but a little while ago they were united with their King when they killed the sirens, and shouted that now they are all monsters together, and that nothing will stop them, and then an obstacle happens that you have to pay with 6 lives, and they are like "we can't do this anymore", "we have to make stupid decisions because we are fed up with everything that happened" because they forgot the meaning of "necessary sacrifice" from their heads.
Let's not forget that Eurylochus of all people was forcing Odysseus to leave the people that Circe turned into pigs, to go with the people they had left and try to get home, and now Eurylochus has a problem with sacrificing 6 men, when he was ready to leave who knows how many of them on that last island.
In my opinion Odysseus cares about his men, not just because he is only their captain, but also there King, and he constantly tries to avoid paying with the lives of his men, or his own at every stop, and Odysseus has the need to leave his enemies in suffering, the enemies who killed any of his men, he left Cyclops blind to suffer because of his unjustifiable brutality and no mercy, but Athena decided at the wrong time to criticize Odysseus who was very emotional, because he carried the guilt of killing the infant inside him, and now he lost a lot of men and his childhood friend, and to hear criticism at that moment, naturally he has to get angry and do stupid things (because that's what people do when they're angry and emotional), and things that he will regret in the future like when he chased Athena away from him, because they both misunderstood each other, if she hadn't criticized him he wouldn't have revealed his name and would have remained "NOBODY", but unfortunately he exploded with emotions and created his problem with Poseidon.
After the Monster song, Odysseus said he would do anything to get himself and get as many of his men home safely as possible. When Odysseus read the lips of the Sirens, and found out which monster he would meet on a safer path out of Poseidon's reach, he knew that there would be a sacrifice needed (during the first song, and while they were killing the Sirens, the first two songs Odysseus and the whole crew are deaf, because they have wax in their ears, so they can't hear the Sirens sing, and that's why the crew doesn't know when Odysseus said out loud that Scylla has a cost), and he was ready to make that sacrifice with some of his men, and save the majority, but Eurylochus suddenly can't stand this, even after a moment ago, everyone was shouting in unison that they were now monsters, and he is angry that his captain and above all else his King decided to make a difficult decision for the benefit of the majority, but they decide to make a mutiny, and screw everything up, because suddenly they find it hard to accept the difficult decisions of their King.
They were on their way home, and decided to deny the possibility of coming home, because they couldn't resist hunger when they could before.
Odysseus's decision is justified in the end, because that betrayal with the bag of winds, and now this one, it's enough for Odysseus to choose himself, although it is difficult for him to make that decision, than it would be difficult for me to be honest, because I would have chosen myself after everything that happened very easy.
"HE DID!?" Grrrrl you have me dead
🤣
Considering that this is someone's interpretation of Odysseus's story, I will talk about the mistakes that everyone made in this version of the story, that led us to this situation.
The first mistake Odysseus made, he took Polites with him to scout the first island, and this is a mistake because if he had taken anyone else they would have scouted the island more carefully and cautiously, and would not have let their guard down, and opened their arms to the world, on an unknown island like with Polites, and they would probably avoid the Cyclops, or if they found a cave they would scout it first and make sure they could get something out of it safely.
Now, since they entered the cave unprepared and shot the first thing that moved instead of being more cautious, Cyclops now had an excuse to attack them.
The next mistake was made by Athena, because she couldn't read how Odysseus felt and decided to criticize Odysseus for not killing his enemy, while Odysseus wanted the Cyclops to suffer for what he did to his crew and childhood friend, and decided "in anger" to double down on this, how the man punished the giant monster, and says which man when he was at a safe distance.
Also people forget that when they read the story of Odysseus, Odysseus didn't know who the Cyclops parents were, it's not a common knowledge that everyone knows for some reason, but as readers we forget that Odysseus doesn't know that the Cyclops is the son of Poseidon, so Cyclops finding out his name shouldn't be a problem in Odysseus's eyes at that moment, and Athena didn't have to tell him to kill the Cyclops, because the Cyclops was blind and thought Odysseus was called "NOBODY" so he couldn't appeal to anyone for help.
The next mistake was made by the crew, because if Eurylochus had not raised doubts about Odysseus's leadership, they might have had better luck, but Odysseus encountered the Wind God, and she offered a free ticket to Odysseus to stop the winds for him, to return home more peacefully (him and more than 500 people crew), and all they had to do was not open the bag of winds, and take the word of the captain who told them what was in the bag, but they wouldn't listen and trust their captain and King, so Eurylochus of all people decided to open the bag, with the crew he as the leader and screwed everything up, and they were within reach of their home but no, they were pushed to the furious Poseidon.
The next mistake is on Odysseus, because instead of apologizing he gives an excuse, because he thinks his crew was attacked for no reason, and they were just defending themselves, talking to Poseidon as if he was talking to Athena, because she would be fairer in this situation "probably" because they know each other, and Odysseus is used to talking to her like this, and that's where he screwed up and barely escaped with 43 men on board.
After the monster song Odysseus decided to turn off his emotions, and do whatever it takes to get home, which included those 6 crew casualties, but what happens, the crew riots and knocks out their captain (King), and they are on the island of Apollo, and the crew that warned Odysseus not to take risks with the Gods, they decide to kill the animals belonging to one of the Gods, thinking that nothing will happen.
Now Zeus shows up for some reason instead of Apollo, he decides to give Odysseus a choice, to save himself, or sacrifice himself for the crew that betrayed him 2 times....
I would sacrifice them if I were Odysseus.
What people forget is what Zeus said to Odysseus, when Odysseus wanted to avoid killing the baby, and said what he could do instead of killing the child, Zeus literally gave him no choice but an ultimatum.
This is what they say in the song
Odysseus: I could raise him as my own!
Zeus: He will burn your house and throne.
Odysseus: Or send him far away from home!
Zeus: he'll find you wherever you go.
Odysseus: Make sure his past is never known!
Zeus: THE GODS WILL MAKE HIM KNOW.
Odysseus: I'd rather bleed for you, down on my knees for ya!
Zeus: he's bringing you to your knees.
Odysseus: I'm begging please!!
Zeus: This is the will of the GODS!
Odysseus: Please don't make me do this, don't make me do this!!
Many miss this, because you can't understand Zeus clearly because they sing at the same time, but Zeus literally said this kid will be trouble for you, and if you don't listen to me we will make sure that you are in trouble if you spare him, so some people judge Odysseus too harshly on that part of the story, when he is just a man who had no choice in the moment.
One of my favorite parts of this saga was the fact that in Mutiny the reason Eurylochus decided to go against Odysseus was because he “missed his wife so bad he’d sacrifice his whole crew” but in the end it the Eurylochus’ own actions that forced Ody to make that decision. Like a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Yeah, I love a good self-fulling prophecy - I have a theory in a RUclips Short about how I think Zeus' first prophecy came true anyway as well. The infant IS following Odysseus wherever he goes, and did bring down "Odysseus" as we knew him. That's why by the time the Underworld prophecy happens they say the man who makes it home is no longer Odysseus!
To be clear, Helios was still the god of the sun during the reing of the Olympians. Apollo was the god of arts, music, plagues and medicine (among other sings). His main job was driving the chariot of Helios across the sky, hence why he is associated with the sun.
Yeah, it was their fault, but oddyseus is the king the captain, who should have protected his people not sacrifice them for himself
Oh I see. That's a good point that culturally it would have been a point of honour I suppose.
This was a great stream!
I'm so glad you enjoyed, thank you so much!!
It would be cool if you did a comparison of EPIC and Wish. What lessons could Disney take from this indie, concept musical?
Well considering what Zeus is mainly known for in mythology the allegory used in Thunderbringer makes perfect sense.
Something that will always intrigue me about this adaptation is the choice to not mention that their other option was sailing pass Charbydis (not sure on spelling?), who is now largerly understood as the personification of a whirlpool but who in mith was described as lurking under a fig tree, drinking up massive amounts of water and belching it back up. She exists directly across from Scylla's lair, and was far riskier to go past as with Scylla there was at least the way to make it out with most of the crew where Charbydis would've capsized the entire ship if given the chance.
Also the fact it was made so Odysseus deliberately chose to sacrifice those men, when in the Odyssey, my understanding was there had been a small chance they couldve made it past with no lives lost if not for the fact they had to account for Monsters on both sides as Scylla only struck once everyone was distracted.
Scylla here is also presented with very sirenic qualities, as if her song compells those with a guilty consciousness to confess their guilt. Something Eurylochus immediately falls into, but Odysseus resists until just the tail end where he can't help but finally sing with her. Which does make sense, as there are myths about Scylla where she is a daughter of Poseidon, though i believe she was originally spoken of with just having a mother who was some kind of nymph.
cal. turning into an opera singer from being attacxked by a bug while im gaming is not how i expected the ending of the stream to go.
Omg i thought i was the only one who thought his name George and i felt so stupid but knowing other people also thought that makes me feel a bit less dumb
Yeah, don't worry, you aren't alone! I read things how they are spelled a lot so I have trouble with a lot of names. Like "Geoff" (Jeff) I always pronounce as GA-OFF, like Goffery from Game of Thrones LOL.
@@CalxiynCaresTooMuch omg that's a real spelling of Jeff I would fight my parents if they named me that
I think Odysseus made the sirens drown as a warning for others not to mess with them. He could've killed them with mercy but he didnt, like he said, he's a different beasts now
I think when Eurylochus is talking about eating the cows the motif is survive, because Odysseus had to kill the baby to survive and now the crew wants to eat the cows to survive.
Its honestly fair to say apollo as well the 2 are very interchangeable in mythology and in some versions of the odyssey they are labeled apollos cattle so kinda whatever jorge decides it to be
I absolutely lost it when she was like "Okay well thats a little bit.. you didnt need to do all of that though okay" 🤣🤣 RIGHT!?
To be clear, but yes those are Helios’ cows not Apollo’s. Both have cows but at this time in Greek History, Apollo actually wasn’t associated with the Sun yet, more just general light and many other things, but not specifically the Sun. Either way, DO NOT EAT HIS COWS! That’s how you get Zeus to shoot your last boat with lightning and kill the entire crew except for Odysseus
"We can't do anything with the previous sagas"
Including the Animatics? =)
Oh I meant in terms of a "Blind reaction" since I've listened to them all already. I've seen some fan animatics but chat was mentioning there may be official ones? Personally what I plan to do is do a video on each song like how I've done for Barbie/Wish/Hazbin Hotel. Right now I'm working on a full Warrior of The Mind analysis!
59:00 In case you're still wondering how his name's pronounced, he says his own name in this video:
ruclips.net/user/shortsP4obilP_hp4?si=aXZReEGl8uPFqctg
39:45 Ya'll it IS Helios' cattle 😭😭😭
Chat gaslit me for a moment but we got back on track haha
@@CalxiynCaresTooMuch it's ok, atleast you got proper info lol
Zeus mirroring what his brother Poseidon did and a call back to the infant. He says to “choose” that the choice is in Odysseus’s hands, but in reality it’s an ultimatum… There IS no choice. Zeus wants it done and in this case he’s like Poseidon. Polyphemus called his dad because of what Odysseus did and he had his name, Apollo already knew who Odysseus is and called his dad to go deal with him. And like with Poseidon saying to apologize and you’re expecting the deaths to become less, truth is he likely would still massacre them all. Zeus gave a choice but likely fully intended to kill them all.
Had to edit a spelling error. Oh and something I haven't seen anyone notice yet is that normally with storms in music people put the drums to the thunder, but in this song it's to the flashes of lightning. It gives me Twister OST vibes because in Twister's one track they used electric guitars to create tornado sirens. What I'm getting at is that it's genius.
26:48 essentially only the sith deal in absolutes. Its hard not to see anakin in odysseus. The paralells are uncanny
The “hahahaha” changed in warrior of the mind and I’m SO HAPPY I hated the way Jorge delivered that line XD
Some of the new versions don't have that OOMF that the older ones had. (Earpod listener)
What would scare me if scylla were actually 6 loch ness
Me too, the new versions for me it was first time dislike then I listened to it when I had more than 2 hours of sleep It was incredible
My cheeks hurt from laughing so much at your reactions. Instant sub. You're hilarious and crazy observant.
Bahaha, I love comments like these, I'm glad you enjoyed it!
I really hope the fly didn’t kill you at the end 😂
Sometimes I can still hear her voice.... LOL
2 hours for a reaction WOW
And analysis! I'm a little nerd LOL 🤓🤓🤓🤓
1:35:06 - 1:35:18 - ❤❤❤
Technically Apollo and Helios share the title of god of the sun I searched it up
Everything is Odysseus’ fault they wouldn’t have been on the Sun gods island if they didn’t fight each other and it was because of him that they fought him he’s keep doing everything wrong
I love the thunder saga
IT IS LITERALLY SO CHILLING I was so shocked.
Skipping open arms?!? Its amazing how could you!, i skip warrior of the mond to be fair.
Just to mike sure Poseidon not affride from Scylla this write for the saga
Oh I see, I like that concept though! Thanks for telling me about the actual mythology though, it's good for me to know!
@@CalxiynCaresTooMuch yor welcome
18:35
1:04:44 Because it's cliché🤣
2:03:48 You just made me want to fallow you now.
Haha, I'm glad to hear it! RWBY has a special place in my heart
you....skipped...open arms? HOW?!
To be clear I do / have listened to it - I just mean usually I skip it LOL
Why are so so funny though dude!?