ROBOUTE GUILLIMAN'S OPINION OF EVERY PRIMARCH! PART 2
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- Hey everyone Wolf Lord Rho here! Today we continue our discussion on Roboute Guilliman's opinion of each and every Primarch! The brothers he likes and those he doesn't
If you missed part one i do recommend checking this out before continuing on with this! The Primarch's we cover today are Ferrus Manus, Angron, Mortarion, Corax, vulkan, Alpharius, Magnus the Red, Horus Lupercal and Lorgar. And today we will be referencing events from across the Warhammer 40,000 universe, particularly the Horus Heresy.
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My favorite summary of Gulliman and Angron not seeing eye to eye: "the problem is that Guilliman landed in ancient Rome, and Angron landed in ancient Rome"
Witty 🫡
Yes and no, if we real, no since Gladiator fights in reality where not so often to death, it was It was considered weak if you could not defeat your opponent without killing him.
Yes, there were also kills and decisions by the audience, but the majority were not life or death, in addition gladiators were quite expensive and were treated like today as professional athletes who generated money and could live quite well from it themselves, plus the celebrity status.
@@Janoip It is a loose analogy, it isn't meant to be taken quite so literally. It is just a tongue in cheek way of saying one was raised in the aristocracy while the other was raised in slavish and brutal conditions.
@@Janoip Yeah to be more accurate Guilliman landed on the good stereotype of ancient Rome and Angron landed on the negative stereotype. Neither accurate but both prevalent, tho if any is more accurate its the positive one ofc
I just love the thought of manus, vulkan and perturbed on Mars rebuilding the tech base of humanity, they'd have leapfrogged the dark age in a thousand years.
The Roman Gladiator-Slave Angron was never going to get along with Roman Nobility Guilliman.
Guilliman is the primarch with the biggest dream for his family. Which is why he was devastated when horus dragged half the galaxy to hell
Many of Gulliman's brothers remark that he's possibly the closest out of any of them to being "human," as Gulliman did have a mother and father while growing up.
I'm hopeful Corax actually reaches Gman before Lion. Lion is stuck on the side of Imperium Nihilus and iirc Gman is back on the south end of the Galaxy. And Lion is still "collecting" his sons. Meanwhile Corax has been Batman-stalking Lorgar (in hilariously dark fashion) and probably others in the warp, so anytime Gman might be in trouble (like a Fulgrim ambush) it could easily be Corax coming to save the day unexpectedly.
I'm hoping that in the rematch Gman uses his "Fool Me Once" power and just orbitals Fulgrim.
Corax has secretly been on Macragge to mend his sanity the last few years after his bro trip with Vulcan!
Corvus attacked Horus after Horus used Raven Guard as fodder at Gate 42, Leman Russ had to play the peacemaker just to calm Corvus down so Vulcan definitely wasn't the only one to disliked Horus
Corvus straight up hated his guts long before Dropsite Massacre
18:04
Vulcan was weary of Horus, but Corax absolutely hated him.
Corax wanted to shank Horus, it was so bad that freakin Leman Russ had to step in and try to cool things down
Leman Russ was trying to break up a fight, can you believe that?
It was next level hate
@@milankostic2571 Probably the one and only time in his life that Leman Russ actually didn't want to see a fight break out. And I mean, I kinda can't blame him. Corax has zero chill when he's pushed that far, and Horus is... well, Horus. It wouldn't have been pretty. Part of me would've loved to see it play out, though.
💯
Robute’s reaction to seeing a broken Vulkan is so sad man. Seeing his brother, an icon of kindness and strength, pushed beyond his limit must have been heartbreaking
Angron's speech would carry a lot more impact if he wasn't, you know, destroying Guilliman's world in front of him at the time. Who had the harder upbringing isn't really the point here - the point is that Angron is using that past to justify visiting the same cruelty on others and turning other worlds into the kind of hell he was raised in. Guilliman has no respect for that, especially under the circumstances.
His opinion on Lorgar IS unusually harsh, and I have to wonder if it's basically cope. Guilliman really wasn't thrilled by what the Emperor had him do to Lorgar. Maybe it's easier to swallow the guilt if he thinks of Lorgar as an irredeemable piece of shit.
No, Guilliman is right.
Lorgar was given every chance. Up to and including the Emperor personally telling Lorgar to quit it prior to Monarchia.
And Monarchia was given more mercy than what Lorgar shows the worlds suffering from his religious pogroms.
When your liege lord, father, and GOD, that you suppossedly absolute loyalty to, says "No, it isn't like that and I need you to stop amd do better" and you still drop to your knees to suckle space tentacles and murder your friends, family, and innocents...yeah, all the hate is justified.
For roboute and corax it seems obvious they would like each other, both want the same thing... A PIECE OF LORGAR !
Jokes aside, they both want to bring peace to mankind, they only see war as a necesity that should be avoid as soon as possible, while most primarch only wanted to do their war Roboute is one of the few that was really thinking of the aftermath of the great crusade, preparing his world for a better futur without war and when corax meet the emperor for the first time he also said to the emperor that his goal was peace, a thing that the emperor really liked and admitted it was the hardest thing to get.
Ferrus Manus is very much the lower profile yet dependable older brother. Given his temperament and being found so early.
He was broadly liked. Never going to overshadow the brighter ones like Horus or Sanguinius, but considered dependable in the extreme.
He is the kind of brother or cousin you don't talk a lot with, aren't close with or anything... but if you need a hand, some support with moving, building something or money trouble... he will be there. With beers.
I know it cannot be developed more because of what we have already but I am really curious as to what the relationship between Angron and Roboute might have been.
I thought Corax had a falling out with Horus after Horus used the Raven Guard as little more than cannon fodder shock troops. Or, was that a different primarch?
It was Corvus
Alpharius Omegon's track record during the Great Crusade matched kost of his brothers records despite "officially" having served the least amount of rime.
He pulled this off thanks to the strategies and tactics Robute and Dorn deride as cowardly and wasteful.
I'd love to be a Nurgle fly 🪰on the wall when some low level demon😈 had to tell Fulgrim that some grotesque cyborg, a Necron Pokémon collector, and some death god's elf bxtch herald are all responsible for bringing a very cranky little brother back from the dead. Also the G Man seems not to have woken up in a very forgiving mood, I'm fairly certain Fulgrim skull fckd that messenger demon, and then cried in fear for the next several days.😢
It happened in Gathering Storm: Rise of a Primarch
> One by one, the champions of the Dark Gods of Chaos became aware of the returned Primarch. Reclining amidst an endless banquet of souls, Fulgrim pouted in displeasure as Daemon imps whispered the news into his ear. The Daemon Primarch of the Emperor’s Children bestirred himself from his velvet throne, vowing to the depraved god Slaanesh that this time, he would ensure Guilliman’s eternal fall from grace.
Always remember…Horus said there was one brother if he had, alone could’ve taken over the universe. There was only one that understood war like he did. There was only one he was truly afraid would arrive. Gman
That quote was not actually referring to Guilleman, but to Ferrus Manus.
You neglected to mention that immediately before his "not reciprocated" comment Ferrus literally thinks to himself that Guilliman is everything he wants to be. His verbal response was just him being is normal stubborn dickish self.
Also Corax ie confirmed to have a very poor opinion of Horus and holds a massive grudge. This is due to Horus severely misusing the Raven Guard, costing them thousands of warriors.
Oh I am so excited for this, absolutely love your videos man, it is what got me into Warhammer lore
I assume we'll never get any of the Primarchs opinions on the Two missing Primarchs... I guess it's not worth mentioning, since the Primarchs themselves were MIB memory erased as a result by either the Emperor himself or his homie Malcador.
Don't worry lads...
Lion will finally meet his brother after another 28 books, and a decade 👌
"Plans to take out his brothers"
Gets bodied by Angron, Mortarion and Fulgrim 😅😂
A remark from Horus after he became Warmaster, he was fearful some of his brothers would be scrutinizing his every action closely. As I recall he specifically mentioned the Lion, Roboute and one other Primarch who'd probably seek to usurp his position.
As much as Guilliman disdains him, Angron wasn't terribly wrong. Roboute got one of the sweetest deals of all the primarchs, while Angron had his whole world against him. And like Angron, Guilliman does have a temper, he just has the privilege of keeping it in check. Angron is right to suggest that if the shoe was on the other foot, Guilliman would've ended up on a similar path.
Angron has the nails, and was a powerful empathy, so he was unique.
Guilliman probably would have played ball, before having enough power and wiping out all his enemies in one fell swoop like Michael Corleone
Angron could have at least tried not to be such a colossal dickhole his entire life because, no matter how hard you had it before, after several decades it stops being someone else's fault and starts being your own
Meta: Could I ask you to refer to specific books in your description? It would be a useful roadmap.
8:58 man those words hit especially hard today, when so many people erroneously believe they are the good guys when they are actually cowardly, bullying pieces of shit following the crowd like mindless automatons.
Can we got more like this like what did the lion think of his brothers
I'm chomping at the bit to see the Lion and Bobby G in the current setting. That said, I'd like to see the Lion's thoughts on everyone else now.
I’m gonna be so excited when G-man can focus on the war at large and push around the loyal Primark like chess pieces…. That would be absolutely unstoppable. Gman in the middle Corvax and Vulk on one flank, Russ and Lion pushing through hell… JKhan in front of all of them harassing the enemy.
Thank you for the nice long video!
I think Gulliman would like Curvus Corax more if he knows hes been spawn-camping lorgar. 😅
The narrative of Magnus being so much more arrogant than every other Primarch is so funny to me. It's actually not at all backed up by the text (unless you're reading ADB, who basically has a personal grudge against him; every time Magnus shows up in ADB's work it should qualify as character assassination).
Yeah, Magnus thought he knew better than everyone else; and he was 99% correct in that assessment, because when it came to the Warp and Psychic stuff, he *did* know better than everyone else, barring the Emperor. The fact that he was ultimately wrong (due to information that the Emperor deliberately kept from him) doesn't change that. Aside from Magnus' one big mistake, where is the evidence for his "astronomical" arrogance?
People forget that he was besties with Sanguinius, Vulkan, and the Khan, three of the most generally well-liked and level-headed Primarchs out of the whole bunch. Russ demonstrates at least as much arrogance as Magnus does, if not more; before the battle on Shrike, Russ sasses Magnus about his feathered cloak not being practical in combat (as if Magnus couldn't just obliterate anything within a kilometer with Psychic powers anyway, making the practicality of his garments a moot point). Magnus simply asks "What if I said the same thing about your wolf mantle?" and Russ straight-up threatens to throw hands on the spot. Ahriman, who was observing, notes that it was probably a jest but also that there was genuine edge behind it. Russ basically insulted Magnus, who took it in stride and just politely turned it around to point out Russ' hypocrisy, and Russ 'jokingly' threatened to kill him ("You could, but then I'd have to kill you," were his exact words). Who comes out of that exchange looking more arrogant? Russ viewed himself as above all of his brothers; how else could he have deemed himself their "executioner"? His Legion followed after him; I mean there was the whole thing about Rune Priests being "totally not Psykers," let alone the squad of like five perfectly ordinary Space Wolves who thought they could bring *Sanguinius* of all people to task if he turned traitor, on his own ship no less.
Or how about Dorn, who was so arrogant that he threw away the majority of his surviving Legionaries (after they had just been through the bloody Siege of Terra) by "deliberately" walking into Perturabo's trap in the Iron Cage?
Or the Lion, who believes he's automatically better than everyone else because his Legion has the number 1 attached to it? Who trusts none of his brothers with the secrets he keeps, who hoards forbidden Dark Age technology, et cetera?
Hubris is the defining flaw of Primarchs in general, and I mean it's kind of understandable for demigods who were created to command the most powerful fighting forces in the galaxy - fighting forces that were literally reshaped in their image. Being a twelve-foot immortal superhuman is bound to give you an ego to begin with, but when ten-thousand superhumans repaint their armor to match you and basically adopt your personality as a culture? That's *bound* to skew your perspective on things.
There’s more to Angron, but his choices are his own. There is a distinct difference between Angron and his brothers and I think it is safe to say that if any other Primarch had been in Angron’s situation it would have turned out differently.
Mortarion’s convictions got the better of him.
Magnus wasn’t so much arrogant as pure brilliance without wisdom and good temperance. A tragedy.
Lorgar is an impediment, ascribing meaning without substance. In fact Roboute and Lorgar are diametrically opposed in every way.
Horus, an incredible leader who traded his destiny.
Alpharius: [Redacted].
I think Gulliman wrote Angron off solely for the fact Angron never tried to be better than the nails he simply submitted to them
I agree but I think even a hint of sympathy from somebody may have gone a long way. Cause the emporer also kinda just said "Sucks to suck, you can still lead this army tho, so get over it". Angron was given no real reason to be better. They all seem to see him as just a brute even pre heresy
@@rossgadsby9663Strongly disagree.
They provided Angron with authority, fraternity, new battle sons to call comrades, and purpose.
Angron could have bonded with his new Legion, liberated worlds to free slaves ala Corax, and ensured the evil of the Butcher's nails never hurt another.
If we argue the Nails robbed him of his thoughts, then NOTHING could have helped and the Emperor's only mistake was not giving Angron the Ol' Yeller treatment.
But if we contend Angron was capable of his own thoughts, the failure remains with him. His life was improved on every level when he was saved from Nuceria. He had NEW battle brothers, in the Primarchs and the War Hounds. He could have, SHOULD HAVE, grown.
Instead he murders innocents and comrades across the Imperium and even inflicts the Nails (which he whines about in this video) on his own Legion.
@@rossgadsby9663 true he received no sympathy from his brothers and father but he did receive it from his sons the same sons he broke and turned them into the same wretched monster like him.
He could've kept the torch alive from his slain family, but instead turned into a worse monster than the ones they fought against. Now he'll be infinitely worse for all time as a demon. Angron is 40k's biggest loser.
@fedupN Well here's the thing, let's use the real life military as an example. If you have a person who has natural leadership ability, lacks fear and is relentless and aggressive. Those are all optimal qualities for a strike force commander. That said, you still mentally screen that person. Here you have a man in constant pain, mutilated by slavers, and treated as a show puppet for decades. And the emporer just plucks him up, leaves his friends to die. And seems distrustful and off put by Angron. If the Emporer expected that to be ok in the long run than that's like criminal negligence
We march for Macragge!
What I want to see is Fulgrim and Lorgar trapping Gman, beating him and tormenting him. Then the Lion teleports in to save Gman who is incapacitated. But he has to solo Fulgrim and Lorgar and he does well but they are wearing him down. Just when it looks the most dire, Corax says from the shadows "Lorgarrrrrrr" in that taunting voice. Then he just swoops in and starts bodying Lorgar. Then Lion can drive off Fulgrim with the help of Corax. Then they save Gman and all have a tea party.
Didn't Guilliman fight and possibly kill Alpharius in 2nd or 3rd Edition ?
I think that with Angron GW made a very sloppy job. Back in a day they didn't intend to give him any personality beside "red angry demon-dude with axe" and so his basic canon that BL had to follow was crappy.
I prefer to think that Angron was healable, but when Emperor took him, Angron did a moronic thing and never bargained with big E about helping him and his gym buddies to fight the war. He was like, "bring me back to die or I will be all angsty genZ "dead inside" primarch. So E was "lol, your nails will still make you want to chop-chop, so I will just drop you were I think is a chopping deficit"
papa smurfs onions
I dislike the argument that Konrad, Angron, Mortarion, etc. never had a chance because they grew up on such terrible planets.
Yes, their home planets were terrible places to grow up on, but the same is true for plenty of loyalist primarchs. It's just that the loyalist primarchs tend to be those who land on a terrible world and make it a better place.
Even Guilliman, who probably had the best start out of all primarchs (yes, definitely way better than growing up with the Emperor), grew beyond the minimum required to thrive on his home world, when he decided to let the senate deal with Konnor's murderer instead of just killing him outright and when he used diplomacy instead of violence to add planets to the Ultramar empire before meeting the Emperor.
Angron and Konrad never grew beyond the savagery of their home worlds, even long after they joined the Great Crusade.
konrad was mentally ill. angron REally didnt stand a chance. morty is morty
I think Mortarian I definitely agree with. But Angrons situation is particularly fucked and basically nobody showed him any sympathy or gave a shit at all. They were all kinda just put off by him
This. Lion, Russ, Corax, Vulkan, the Angel, Ferrus Manus, and even Dorn (ish) all grew up on various levels of horrible and DIDN'T blame the universe for their failurea to grow once given purpose, authority, and brotherhood.
To be scrupulously fair to Mortarion, he was *trying* to make his homeworld a better place, and almost succeeded.
I don't particularly like him either because of his wildly prejudiced views about Psykers, but let's at least be fair.
Dam. Never been this early before
Im here
Lmao ReBatman Guilliman
Hey! My RUclipsrs are mixing.
🎉🎉🎉🎉
I hate Angron but he is right, Guilliman is a milk drinker
Angron IS responsible of his actions. Guilliman wasn't wrong to blame the man.
Angron can give the victimhood speech as many times as he wants, all that matters is that in moments of clarity he still wanted to be the monster, and he became the monster in the end.
Just like Mortarion and just like Magnus.
Angron won this war of the words against Blue boy. Not gona lie.
I belive Guilliman snapped at Angron largely because of what he and Lorgar did to the people of Ultramar. This was Guilliman boiling with anger, just after witnessing Calth firsthand.
Having said that Angron might have a tragic backstory, but he's still an asshole. Even to his own legion.
P.S.
Rho you stated Vulcan was the only one who didn't like Horus. What about Corax ? He despised him for callously spending the lives of his sons.
RaaarrrRrrraaaawaaWkkK!
Rawr
Vulkan, the blackface Primarch. I don't know why they insist on rendering him with Black features.
My second most favorite pretentious, hypocritical, utilitarian. The first is the Emperor of Mankind himself.