Elac Debut 2.0 Upgrades and Modifications!
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- Опубликовано: 29 мар 2020
- In this episode, Danny Richie offers up some modifications and upgrades and modifications for the Elac Debut 2.0! What Audiophiles need to know!
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I've always wanted to buy a hifi speaker from Jimmy Carter. ;)
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LOVE YOU'RE WORK DANNY THANKS FOR ALL THE TECH . UPGRADES ! KEEP KICK'N IT !
Thanks a lot for your video. Can't stop thinking you have to do some upgrade to the DBR62 now, because it will be a best seller and a lot of people will be interested.
Bought the kit - did the upgrade - I already liked these speakers - now I love them. If you are considering this upgrade I highly recommend it.
Can you tell us upgrade parts specification? Parameters? I’m from UK thinking to get German parts.. but with same parameters..
@@johnmcgregor2334 Dude...🙄
@@johnmcgregor2334 REALLY?
@@johnmcgregor2334 that is the kind of thing that chinese do, with chinese parts of course... shame.
Hi Daniel. I just did the upgrade and discovered a lot of interference with the crossover and the plastic air ports on one speaker which caused me to modify the layout for the second crossover assembly. Even with the tweeter coil laying flat on the 2nd speaker, I had to modify the plastic port. My recommendation is to separate the Tweeter and Woofer crossovers and mount them on the inner rear side walls. What say you? My first LP on the new ELAC's was Vivaldi's Four Seasons. It was like sitting in the midst of a live orchestra - - - - - WOW.
Excellent work!
Danny I found that by applying rope style window putty to the frames made a huge difference. These are amazing speakers for the price. Those saying different probably don’t want to believe the sound quality can be that good at their price point. I will be in touch about the Cover upgrades. 👍🏻
What to you mean by that?
hi danny met you a decade or so ago. you did some crossovers for me. i'm thinking of letting you look at the same speakers just in a new box. enjoy you so much
Much thanks to Peter for proving to the world the actual shape of the Earth, I'll make sure I never leave home without my repelling gear for now on!
Rapalling. You repel mosquitos.
Thank YOU Danny!!!
i would LOVE to hear your thoughts on the Elac Uni-Fi 2.0’s. both from a measurement and build construction perspective.
Really interesting information.
You'll have to do one for the Debut 2 Reference now :)
Great video, as usual, Danny. I was pretty underwhelmed with my Elac Debut 2.0s initially. Love the idea of upgrading them but I think I'll just put that money towards an X-LS Encore kit.
I have plenty of room, and I have heard amazing difference in the Elac Debut 2.0 Tower speakers just by changing the distance I keep from the back wall. Huge Difference. That, and removing the grill from the tweeter changes the audio experience, significantly.
Also have the f6.2 towers. Pulling the mesh off the tweeters helped the high end a lot. They also sound best a minimum 12" or so from back wall. Also try plugging the bottom port with foam. Really tightened up the lower bass.
(I'm using a sub crossed around 85hz)
I never knew about tube connectors, but one of the upgrades I used to do was just running speaker wire straight into the cabinet through a hole that I drilled and then filling the hole with silicon so that it’s airtight. You end up with a speaker that has a permanent wire, running out of the back, but hey, it works.
Another great watch! Of course there is an endless amount of speakers choices, both brands & types. One particular I'm curious about your opinion are the Danish pretty small but very heavy & solid full Iron Cast JERN speakers. Those have very little to almost none resonation.
I've got the tower version, glad to know this is here. Devialet makes an amp that corrects these speakers automagically but it costs $10,000 new.
Matthew Bowler Matthew, Devialet doesn’t correct anything just “learns” the drivers so that it can feed it with the right-perfect juice without overdriving them. With a different XO you would need to re-measure to get the “perfect” fit again. But it’s very clever indeed.
If you have a tweeter behind sub-par caps, then it will sound bad. A better amp may clean some of the bad sound being injected by a bad amp, but can't do much beyond that.
LOVE Danny!! an American Icon......
I'll be ordering this kit. I can't get over how big speakers look on your table vs how small they look on my speaker stands.
Edit: I have upgraded the left speaker so far. it sounds so good, the pair sounds bad when played together. The balance has to be moved 3/10 to the right to even hear the speaker with the old crossover. And when I hear it, I want to turn it off, it sounds more tinny and shouty. The new crossover is punchy and clean (maybe as much to do with the No-Rez as the crossover). I'm just glad I have an amp that likes 4 ohm speakers. These Elacs WERE rated at 6 ohm and this kit brings them down to LESS than 4 ohm. The parts themselves were a bit of a challenge to get together in a space small enough to fit in the cabinet while keeping the inductors far enough apart. I managed, but I would like to see other people's solutions to this problem. I also found that both grills resonate at 72 Hz.. maybe not at listening levels, but while testing I was concerned I had done something wrong, until I removed the grills and discovered they were doing the buzzing.
don`t know how the box looks inside.. but typically cheap speakers can be improved with cabinet bracing as well as what you did
Cool video!!!
Nice little earner, you've got there!
Danny... great job!!!! One question... Ron has heard the elacs with the upgrades ???
So, I dunno if this has been addressed before, or not, but as much fun as DYI may be, wouldn't it be just as cost effective to buy the bigger Elac Debut Reference DBR62? Is there a comparison on the B2 upgrade vs the stock Reference series?
I think this is for people like me who already own this speaker. Why chase the dream buying better and better speakers when you could just upgrade what you have? The reference, while better than these, will still have cheap crossover components, and the urge to upgrade them will still be there for us tinkerers. I'm only willing to pay so much for speakers. I've pretty much hit my limit. Unless you offer me some Forte 4's for 1K, which I would still have to upgrade :)
Great up grade. I own the 5.2 t model towers. Do you have kit for those and is the much soldering or ? Let me know thanks Danny
I would love to hear a before and after test. just for fun.
13:46 That grill was a flat earther.
RIP
Haha! That flat earth globe is hysterical! Thanks for the true laugh aloud moment, Peter.
Thanks for another great vid, Danny!
I have the elac uni-fi ub5 are they worth doing an upgrade?
I'm planning on making my own cables it looks really easy
It is. Tiny set of screw drivers from Walmart , there brand and connectors from Amazon. And organization trays from the 99 cent store. Soldering is pretty easy. Get a soldering station with a good heat gun. For smd work. And buy plenty of flux and some cans of electrical contact cleaner from Walmart, these are my cheats. Cause flux is very corossive. Oh yeah two pairs of side cutters. Plus a good wire stripper from kline at home depot and a good connector crimper. You can get a cheap one off wish but the kline at home depot is better maid. Also watch how to crimp battery cable connectors that will help you understand why a good solid crimp is important. Plus all the strands must be inside the connector and properly soldered or crimped with no air gaps inside. Yes this is a lot of detail but after you learn this which is pretty easy. Then move on to scanner danner on automotive electrical plus mr. Carson's lab or x-ray tonyb. Google can show you all the basic symbols for electronic components. ,solor 12v, 24v, 48v are all good things to learn I watch diy solor. There is so much to learn about electronics. This is why electronic repair people are nearly impossible to find. You will need a soldering matt but you can use a rubber car matt, the local junk yard is a good place for components such as relays, diodes, transformers, capacitors and cables. If you are on the cheap like the rest of us.
@@Eagleoneradiogod Plumber's flux is very corrosive. Rosin (electrical) flux, not so much. Just clean up afterwards with isopropyl alcohol.
Thanks for the video. I am thinking about doing this upgrade. Your measurements stop at 200 hz. What is the reason for this? How do these Elacs perform in the low end?
Thank you for amazing review, I have older version elac debut b6 and for me as new in audiophile world they sound amazing with my old marantz 2230 receiver :)
Can I apply this upgrades and modification same as here?
best regards
Hey Danny! If you could, would you be able to tell me how to take the speakers out of a pair of Wharfedale Diamond 11.2's? I have some issues with them that I would like to try to take a look at and any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated. The problem is that there are no exposed screws on the bass or tweeter drivers. Thank you!
I have this speaker and have been very impressed with the sound. I have no mechanical abilities. Any recommendation as to finding someone in my area who could do this for me?
I have two pairs of these. The only complaint I have is the same as the Andrew Jones Pioneer speakers, they are a little dull at the top. Look for my order.
That is a good improvement even though the fact Andrew Jones went thru a lot of work to design this model speaker at a demand budget price.....
$1800 Polk audio had one good part: a ring tweeter. ($30). The rest? crap. Andrew Jones could help polk out, but if polk made the Debut speakers, they'd cost 3x as much for the same thing.
@@scottlowell493 Nonsense.
I bought the elac debut 2.0 b6.2s and was disgusted. Shitty highs and nonexistent mid range.
This was interesting... thanks for the rundown. I might get a pair of the slimmer ELAC debut on-wall speakers (DOW42). I have a 16x16' room and was considering using them combined with a small sub on the side. Do you think I'm better off with the larger Debuts as seen here?
Performance wise you are always better getting the speakers away from and off of the walls.
@@dannyrichie9743 While I normally agree with this sentiment, the DOW42's are surprisingly good as surrounds and Atmos (ie. ceiling) - even right against the wall. I'd guess it's likely do to the lower workload and perhaps the down-firing ports. For fronts though? No way.
can you tell me if these upgrades are still available and will they work with the Debut 5.2?
Do you offer a kit for the 5.2? Your website only lists the 6.2 and the center channel.
I can't afford 300$ in parts sadly, thanks for doing the work you do though. Quick question, would there be any point of purchasing just the notch filter from you (if even possible) over just using EQ and a top shelve to lower that 1.5db bump at 750khz
Hi Danny, I was wondering if you had upgraded any Onkyo SKF-4800 Floorstanding Speakers or any Infinity Reference 152 2-Way 5.25" Speakers,
As I live in New Zealand it's a bit far to drop them off, any suggestions for DIY upgrades would be welcome.
I enjoy your informative channel, thanks for sharing your wealth of knowledge
Thanks from Sweden, interesting as usual. A question is it a Von Schweikert Audio VR-1 Loudspeakers you have in the background. Because i have two VR-1 in my kitchen on stands, love them.
What do you think of them?
Nope, that is not them.
Can you fix the throat cancellation by just chamfering the inner edge of the tweeter face plate?
Danny, quick question. Did adding no rez change the tuning of the enclosure? I see the impedance dip in the low end moves up by 10Hz and the Q of the tuning looks different based on the impedance peaks?
What I did (and the No Rez) had no effect on he tuning. During testing I had the back cup off and just some cardboard taped over the hole with wiring hanging out of it. That effected the tuning. So disregard that end of the chart in the impedance curve.
Excelent, thanks a lot. Can you do a little upgrade on the unifi ub5 that is the one i have? Greetings from Argentina!!!
Hi Marcial. I had sent Danny one of my UB5 speakers in October to do testing on. Unfortunately it was damaged in shipping by UPS and they requested the speaker back to inspect to determine if they would pay the damage claim. So, I'm not sure if Danny had completed all the testing before UPS picked up the damaged speaker. What information he did share with me indicated that they had some issues which would be hard to fix due to space constraints inside the enclosure.
If you can get your hands on some Elac BS312 it would be interesting to see how do does small speakers measure!
Perhaps you've realized by now... that's not how this works. You buy the speakers. You send them to Danny, then he decides if he want to measure them, upgrade them, make a video. etc.
Thanks! Would you do this for the original uni fi 5.1
Which one you preffer, this Elac's or the Dali Skeptor 2 ???
Hey, just a quick tip for DIYers dealing with resonance problems on stamped baskets - a couple of things I've tried which work very well are:
1: silicone sealant - carefully use a grout gun to apply it to stamped metal surfaces and around the groove between the magnet & basket then flatten/spread with a business card or whatever you have handy. It dries to a nice, acoustically dead rubber consistency.
2: hot glue - apply as above. have a bowl of icy water near by - dip your finger and spread the glue evenly (a lower temperature gun is best & practice the technique on something else to get a feel for it)
The above techniques can also be applied to inner walls / corners of cabinets. there's also paint-on bitumen rubber and a type of spray on rubber gutter sealant which both work very well. or buy some of danny's no-res. that might work :)
C.B.S. I upgraded my drivers by covering them with plasticine, completely covering the entire driver including the magnet. Got laughed at on a forum about it, so don’t say much about it anymore. Also upgraded caps and braced the cabinets. Massive improvement, just not on these speakers but sure it would work on these as its the same cheap stamped metal.
You could then try and spray over them with a rubber spray to seal them if wanted, but I never did. Been ok for the three years, even did my Hawthorne OB drivers as well.
I'm interested in this upgrade but not really sure if it will help with my main issue with this speaker which is the treble sounds a bit subdued and lacks sparkle, that and how import taxes and postage to the uk adds up.
This upgrade solves that issue. And I can send these kits to the UK cheaper than you think.
Have you done a upgrade review for the Elac UB5 speakers? I'm looking to upgrade if possible
We had one in house. It did not have a very linear response and was loaded with the same garbage parts the rest of them were. The problem was there was no room in the box for a three way crossover using quality parts.
Would be great if you could do the ELAC unifi bookshelves, too. Thanks.
Send one over.
Yea. I'll have those over soon just trying to get the scratch together on them
It seems like a little cabinet tweaking and targeted XO component upgrading should get the 6.2 close to the reference 6.2. I'd love to order the GR 6.2 kit, but it would cost something like $800 in Canada, which is twice what the speakers cost me new.
Same here, im in CA as well.
Please let me know if mod kit is available for Elac 2.0/B6.2-does i t have to be assembled or is it fully assembled? thx Dr. LR
Any chance one of you nice folks has either a picture or drawing of how you laid out these upgrade parts? I am having a bit of a struggle keeping the dimensions on a single piece of MDF down to something that will fit in the enclosure. Not sure if I should trim off some of the leads coming off the inductors or what?
Danny, have you looked at the uni-fi 2.0 Ub52 crossover change?
I wonder how a real elac (with jet tweeters) would measure
Any plans for Uni-fi review/kit upgrade?
does this upgrade work for the 6.2 or the 6.2 need a new set of caps/ X over job ?
I have two pair of these speakers and two
Center speakers. Have you made up a crossover for the center speaker that’s for these ?
Danny, thank you for another awesome upgrade. I was into it, and hoping to improve performance of these Elac's I have relegated to garage duty. Then came the $345 cost for upgraded crossover components... these speakers only cost $199/pr. delivered (Amazon). Seems more value might be added with $105 miniDSP 2x4. Could get rid of all the crossovers (component noise, phase issues, delay, etc.), and dedicate an amp channel to each driver (also increasing amp efficiency). Anytime a crossover solution goes over $100 in this modern era of advanced DSP, it no longer makes sense to me from a value perspective. There is just so much more that can be done with DSP, for so much less coin, and provides the opportunity to tweak at will. Think the highs sound too bright or too layed-back - adjust it, think the tweeter can play lower - adjust the crossover point, think it needs a step filter - add one, etc., etc. Try whatever you want with DSP - listen to it live while making the changes. Then when you think you have something special, load it to a config slot, and A-B switch between them to test. Could even create multiple crossover configurations for different music genres and switch between them with a wireless remote control. Nicest part of DSP is when filters are changed, it doesn't mess with phase, timing, impedance, etc., and you can see the resulting freq. response graph before (and even while) changes are being made. The way of the future is all digital to DSP (crossover) inside the speaker enclosure, distributed to drivers that have individual bespoke DAC amps integrated as part of the motor structure designed/optimized specifically for each driver (from the driver manufacture). The only analog cables in the entire system will be the short leads to the driver cone (unless there's an analog TT in the system).
Been there done that and tried the best there is. The MiniDSp is the second worst (behind the behringer). It sucks the life out of the music and is un-listenable. The D/A converter, power supply and analog output stage is on par with a $49 CD player. You'll get better sound from a non-upgraded stock model and a good DAC.
@@dannyrichie9743 So the DSP solution is valid. Seems your saying miniDSP 2x4 has inferior power supply and DAC that are limiting the capabilities of this particular unit (or maybe all miniDSP-made products?). Notice you didn't take issue with DSP as a viable solution, but rather the hindrances of low-performance ancillary bits. Then it stands to reason that improved power supply and DAC would drive-up the cost higher than that of improved passive crossover components. What do you consider a 'good' DAC? Since DACs are more commonly used outside of DSP in the HiFi community (wherever digital sources are used), would it be possible to have a Tech Talk on them?
Good reply.
I am not against a DSP solution, but it has to sound good. And often the cost of good sound into multiple channels can really add up.
I consider the DEQX model a decent mid-fi level unit. It's okay, but far from the top level DAC's.
Rich Hollis of Hollis Audio Labs facebook.com/HollisAudioLabs/ is the only one I have personally spent time with that I could put in the category of a high end piece of gear.
As for good DAC's. I am always keeping an eye out for the really good ones that are not expensive.
This company makes some good ones. www.denafrips.com/ I was very impressed with the sound of the Aries 2 model.
And my digital guru's are singing the praises of the Holo DAC: kitsunehifi.com/product/holo-audio-spring2-dac-kitsune-tuned-edition/
I haven't heard it yet myself, but guys that I really know and trust are really holding it up.
Using good quality DAC's like those and good quality passive filters are still at the top of the performance ladder.
Whilst I agree with the general "DSP" reasoning, the technology is in a toddler development stage (to avoid the word phase). Several huge problems need to be solved before you can compete with the best musical high end audio. Electrical engineers really don't understand human hearing and base their work on simple mathematics where only sine waves are considered. Try running a 1,760 Hz blockwave through a component chain and look at the wave shape in your room. Total mess.
In a cheap system, there are simple priorities that, IMO, you better address before surrendering to GAS and (expensive) modifications.
1. Phase aligned AC. In countries where AC plugs allow random Live-Neutral plug insertion, make sure all devices are polarity aligned. When they are not, voltage differences between devices cause current to flow over ground connections linked to the signal paths. 2. Clean AC. Each amplification stage tries to bring AC to the next in as short a path as possible. Like in a capital T, amplification is the horizontal straight through and previous stage is the vertical modulating the horizontal. Garbage in = Garbage out (the GIGO principle). Most power supplies are too simple to prevent bad AC from seeping through into the next audio stage. Even in high end. Listen to somewhat complex acoustic music with proper space recording and zero mastering or mixing. Hear the difference between business and household rush hours and after midnight. The latter better? Bad filtering in power supplies. Note that electricity companies around the world increasingly worry about pollution of their grids. 3. Speaker placement in your room. Watch e.g. Wilson Audio's YT clips about the subject. Your turn. 4. (Iterate 3 & 4) room acoustic treatment. Ask an assistant to help. One (M) has a mirror, the other (L) in the listening chair. M slides the mirror over surfaces in L's room, where L watches where a speaker becomes visible in the mirror. Walls, ceilings, objects. Each "hit" labeled with a sticky note. These are points of first reflection. Each of these contribute to mess you hear. Simple acoustic treatment (extinguishing the reflection) improves your listening experience by a lot. YT channel "DIY Perks" shows two DIY approaches - the oldest has the best WAF, based on cheap wood frames filled and covered with towels. 5. Have crossovers with no capacitors in the audio signal path. My Extrema speakers have passive radiator cooling on the main resistor taking most if the heating. Spatial clues are great. 6. Don't talk about phase when you want to take phase change out of a speaker that has its driver's aligned out of phase.
[GAS: gear acquisition syndrome. WAF: wife acceptance factor. AC: alternating current]
No comment on this channel. It makes sense.
@@dannyrichie9743 I don't like digital crap either, I even don't like CD, after listening to CDs of music unobtainable on vinyl for 2 days, fatigue takes it's toll and back to vinyl
How much is this upgrade?
@daniel Weber did you find the upgrade difficult?
Hi ,Dany. Great work,keep on. want to ask you off you had make some linda of upgrade on a Dali rubicon 2 and its its worthing ? Thanks
When upgrading the crossover, the parts are significantly larger. How does this effect the internal volume of the enclosure? Seems the smaller the speaker the more critical volume loss would would be. With the kit, would there be a suggested layout/placement of parts?
I'd mount them in the bottom of the cabinet. They take up very little air space. Adding a little more insulation about the size of your fist will make up for it.
Affect*
Hi, any suggestions on upgrading the elac fs249 first gen :-)?
I found the center channel for $150, and the 6.2’s for $150 a pair on Amazon a couple years ago! Does this kit come with step by step directions? What to remove and what to solder to what? Is there a kit for the center channel as well? Thank you!
I have not worked on their center channel models.
Is Polk s50 ore paradigm 6000f better for music and movies
where do all the xo parts mount in that cabinet? lot of parts to get in there!
Everything I read out there about this kit (and in the comments here) seems to suggest a price around that of the speakers themselves for this upgrade kit. But when I go to the website, it's listing $579 + around $25 shipping. Am I looking in the correct place?
I really wanted to try this out, but if the kit is really approaching 3x the cost of the speakers themselves (picked em up on sale) I'm not sure if perhaps my money is better spent upgrading my amp to an Emotiva or something for half the price? Or maybe picking up an SVS sub to pair with them.
I'm not complaining, the price is the price. I just want to verify I'm looking at the same thing this video is talking about and seeing what everyone thinks about where to put my $600 in my audio system. Many of you here that experienced the kit said it was worth it. Still think it would be worth it at today's price?
I love Danny and his videos BTW, I've learned so much from him! Would love to get some of his products one day when I can afford it.
Sounds good, but think one should buy them (and hear them) before upgrading, right.
I'm not gonna invest in the upgraded before crashing my hears against the real thing.
Thx to that guy down there who bought the kit & loved it. Think he had a pair before buying the kit.
Danny, a general question regarding a crossover caps replacement: when replacing original electrolytic caps with some polypropylene caps should we use the same cap value or somewhat lesser value? I've noticed that electrolytic caps quickly loose their capacitance on higher frequencies but the PP caps don't. As I have no set-up for acoustic measurements but do have the Dayton Woofer Tester 2 system I've got an idea just to match a new (after a cap replacement) impedance curve with the original one. Is that a valid approach for a speaker with a good flat FR from a factory?
Replace them value for value.
@@dannyrichie9743 Thank you.
Hey Danny! I bought a pair of the Elac Debut B6 speakers for $200 right before the 2.0 came out. I love the sound and I'm really enjoying running them in. I'm happy with them now but at some point I'll be ready to upgrade. Should I go buy the 2.0 for almost $300 or should I buy your crossover kit for $ 300 plus? I'm leaning toward the latter because I would love the satisfaction of a successful DIY and am impressed with your video[s]. Am I making a false assumption that your 2.0 upgrade would be the same or similar in parts and cost? Would I have to ship my speakers for you to test? I'm not in a hurry because I have many more hours of "burn-in" ahead. Thanks for all the great info!!
If you are already into DIY then you might want to just by-pass the budget offerings and try one of our kits.
Did you buy the kit? How does it sound now?
Hi Danny great video :)
Have you ever tested the Wharfedale Diamond 9.1?
Would love to know what you think about a possible upgrade
Thanks
I have not.
@@dannyrichie9743
If I were in the US I would send you mine :)
I have learnt so much from your videos and will apply what I have seen.
Thanks again
It seems that this upgrade pretty much is the same that Elac performed when they introduced the new Debut Reference speaker. Same drivers (new cast cage), improved cross-over, more rigid cabinet, and new wave guide. Essentially the same mods that DR performed. Starting from scratch, I'd buy the Debut Ref because of the improved aesthics of the new cabinet but since I have the Debut 2.0 I might do the mod just for fun.
They parts quality in the higher end models are still not even close to what I am offering in this upgrade.
@@dannyrichie9743 No doubt. The only point being is that you & Elac were both moving in the same direction with the improvements as a package. Do you have a preference between the modified Elac Debut 6.2 and the modified Klipsch RP-600 ?
@@great100m The RP-600 was problematic by design. The Elac was much better designed, uses better drivers, and is the better sounding speaker.
Nice upgrade there. I just wish you had shown an up-close look at all of the individual upgraded parts, including the "tube connectors"? (I have no idea what those are, do, OR even look like!) Also what is that "no-res" stuff that you talk about, what does it look like, and how and where do you install it for the most effect?
I will watch more of your videos to see if you elaborate on any of that stuff, but it would've been nice to see that info here in this video also!
Also, a complete itemized parts list of all of the upgraded parts and accessories, where did you get each part, and how much does each individual part cost, would have been a good thing to see too!
Also if you could please show HOW everything was changed out and final assembled it would be great!
Tube connectors: gr-research.com/electracabletubeconnectors.aspx
No Rez: gr-research.com/norez24x27sheet.aspx
And you don't have to go out shopping for the parts. We send you a complete kit with everything you need.
@@dannyrichie9743 That's nice, but those prices are pretty damn expensive!... $60 for just a single pair of *terminals* ?... REALLY??! (I still can't tell what those do or how/where they work or are supposed to be used, btw... only one photo doesn't show much, especially if you've never seen them before and you aren't sure what they are supposed to do or how or where to use them.)
And that "no-res" stuff is ALSO extremely expensive at almost $11/square foot!... And NO photo shown of that either, which is what I wanted to see! Is that stuff anything like "Dynamat" or something similar, but cheaper?
@@JoeJ-8282 Actually the tube connectors are cheaper than any of the top name binding posts like Cardas, Vampire, or WBT. And the tube connectors come with the male ends for your speaker cables. With any of those binding posts you still have to go buy spades or bananas, and for decent ones you can spend another $40 or more. So the tube connectors are about half the price and they sound better. They are also ten times easier to install.
And from the link I sent you to our website there are four pictures of the tube connectors, and three diagrams showing how they work.
We also have installation instructions in our forum on the Audio Circle: www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=94014.0
And resonance control material is not cheap in general. But there is nothing on the market that works as well as No Rez. And it is cheaper than the also popular Blackhole 5 material.
And our website is also loaded with pictures of it as well.
@@dannyrichie9743 Well I can't find or can't see any of those photos you mention of those products, from either of those links for some reason, (maybe it's a glitch in the link or something??), but when I click on the link of the connectors and then on the picture, it only shows (1/1 photo available)... And when I click on the link for the "no-res" stuff it doesn't show ANY actual photos of the product, (just a fuzzy, generic "camera" icon), so that's why I asked how that stuff compares in design and function to other products like "Dynamat" and the like, because I'm already familiar with those... Is no-res the same type of extremely sticky, black, "rubberized tar based" or "tar-like" sheets that you peel off the protective covering on one side and then stick it firmly onto a panel or wall of the product that you're trying to dampen the resonances from? If so, most or pretty much ALL of those products work in the same general way and amounts, (with slight variations in overall performance based mainly on product thickness, etc.), but since they're all so similar, I just get the cheapest brand per square foot that also has an effective thickness and density.
Anyway, you might check the link that you sent me for yourself and see that NO photos of the no-res are shown, nor any other details about it given, like thickness, sound dampening rating/ability, etc., but all of which I would like to see and know before ever considering buying any... I *never* just "blindly" buy *anything* online without actually knowing *exactly* what it is, does, and looks like first!
And as far as prices go, (especially of the terminals), the ones that you carry may very well indeed be a (relative) "good value" when you compare them to some of the other (totally *ridiculously* expensive) brands, but the overall *sound improvement* that ANY of those types of just straight *terminals* , (nothing else), no matter how "exotic" they may be or look, actually makes, above and beyond just a pair of good quality, standard gold-plated, 5-way binding post terminals is VERY minor, (if at all even noticeable under normal listening circumstances), when compared to other relatively "major" sound differences, like using better quality crossover capacitors or anti-resonant boxes and baffles, and *especially* , different or better quality drivers themselves, so putting ANYthing more than $1 or $2 or MAYBE $3 each into just simple *connectors* is NOT very cost efficient overall, and doesn't bring you all that much return for investment above and beyond that ~$2 per terminal price point... (at which point most decent quality binding posts can be had for... Sometimes even less if found surplus)... Terminals are one of those things, like most other *basic functionality* hardware on a speaker is, that if the *basic functionality* is there, then there's no significant reason to go exhorbitantly high in price for those things because it *VERY QUICKLY* reaches a point of "severely diminishing returns" above a certain *basic* level of quality!...
I definitely DO know that the terminals on a speaker ARE important, and that even basic, common, good quality gold plated binding post terminals are a major improvement over the cheap, flimsy "spring clip" type connection cups, both in connection strength, and sound quality, (even though you *still* have to have reasonably revealing drivers in your speakers, AND very good quality speaker wire to the speaker from your amp, AND of course a very good quality amp itself and source component to even notice that difference between simply different speaker *terminals* , as I've tried comparing all of those differences myself more than a "few" times over the decades, and among many different models and brands of speakers), but going too much more *expensive* than a really good set of basic gold binding posts is NOT a very good place to invest your money in making a speaker sound *significantly* and *immediately, noticeably* better, unless said speaker is already "perfect" in every other way first!...
Unless your speakers are already as good as they can possibly be in every other way first, then buying extremely expensive terminals for them, regardless of brand, isn't going to make ANY noticeable difference, it's just going to cost you lots of extra money unnecessarily... Now, if those terminals you have there were about *1/10th* of the price you have them listed at, then I would definitely try them, but NO speaker *terminal* is really worth any more than that, no matter what it's made from OR how it's designed, because of the simple fact of what it is... a terminal connection, nothing more, nothing less, and even the "worst of the absolute WORST", absolute cheapest, flimsiest, and tiniest connectors out there STILL send AT LEAST like about 99.9% of the sound through to the actual drivers themselves under most normal listening circumstances, so spending a (relative) "ton" of money on the "best" terminals just to get that very last 0.0001% (or whatever) of sound out of your speakers isn't worth it, IMO!
Anyway, I'm rambling now, but the "bottom line", MOST important thing to always remember and consider is this; anyone building speakers absolutely MUST look at the bigger, overall whole picture, and prioritize the MOST important aspects of it first and foremost, in other words, any of the ones that make the BIGGEST sound quality differences, like driver selection and matching, etc., down from there, and work your way down to the parts that make less of an overall sound quality difference, and then only change those IF your budget allows, AND you even feel like messing with it! (and terminals, especially anything more expensive than good, basic binding posts, is one of the "last" few things on the list, more important than just simply the type of screws you use to mount everything, but definitely NOT as important as crossover components or anything above that in priority!)
I think that getting the speaker's *cabinets* to be as *resonant free* as possible is *definitely* more important than simple *terminals* are also, so I'm more curious about finding out more detailed info about that "no-res" stuff, as I've asked earlier and above.
Sorry for the "book", but speaker building is a VERY intricate thing, with MANY things to consider and properly prioritize, so I can literally talk about that subject in depth for hours with anyone who is at all into it like me! Lol!...
I thank you for your information, I'd just like to know more exacting and *thorough details* , (AND exactly where and how to find/see *pictures* of that stuff AND thoroughly detailed application info), especially about that no-res stuff you have available!
First things first. All of the information is there on our site and is full of pictures as stated. All of the links work just fine. It could be that you are trying to access the information on a mobile device and not seeing all that is there. Our current site is not mobile friendly to all devices. But we have a new website under development that will launch in a few weeks that will take care of all of that. In the mean time I recommend that you view the information from a computer.
Secondly, regarding damping material. Dynamat is a material designed for metals. It is a damper only. No Rez is specifically designed for wood materials like MDF. It not only has a damping layer but a 1" open cell foam layer as well. So it serves dual roles. It is also not only the best material on the market for this application, but is also very reasonable. And for the performance improvement that it offers it is well worth the money. And our customers agree. We literally sell tons of it each year.
Now regarding the tube connectors. Your opinion that you have is ill informed. You have not tried tube connectors and have no basis for forming or placing a value on the improvement that they offer. The simple truth is the difference can often be quite dramatic. And our customers give us this feedback often. Even on a budget level speaker the difference can often be described as lifting a vale from off of the speakers and gaining a level of clarity across the board.
And on a top level system the difference is night and day. This guys were hearing a clear difference even on a budget level system. ruclips.net/video/oLnBW3wuBSU/видео.html
And recently New Record Day reviewed the upgrade designed for the Klipsch RP-600M and posted sound clips using the binding posts and using the tube connectors. They were set up to use either or. The difference was very clear, and many people reported hearing those differences even playing the compressed RUclips sound clips back through their systems, and some of those were desk top systems.
There is no question that the tube connectors not only offer a clear difference in clarity and detail, but that difference is more than well worth the low cost of adding them to the upgrade. They are worth much more than the cost, and adding them is a no brainer.
Hi there, Danny ! Nice vids you make.👍 Just wondering if you could make a vid about Monitor Audio Bronze 5 (5G) ?
Only if someone sends one in.
Would be nice to hear a sound demo from before and after the upgrade.
You will never hear the change broadcasting it over yt.
Every time you are listening to somthing on YT you are listening to your own speakers you moron. Was that not fucking obvious?
@@elvirredzepovic6898 znaci ti tvrdis da na tvojim zvucnicima nije moguce cuti razliku u kvalitetu reprodukcije.
sasvim je jasno da ce yt kompresija da oduzme deo utiska ali itekako se cuje razlika ukoliko je mikrofon i oprema za snimanje dobra tadodje uredjaji za reprodukciju moraju biti dovoljno kvalitetni..recimo da imas dobar dac i dbnro pojacalo i slusalice ,sasvim ces jasno cuti razliku u karakteru zvuka ,ne mora nesto nuzno da bude bolje ili losije dovoljno je da ima karakter koji ti se svidja.zvuk je dosta subjetivna stvar.
@@stever128 He claims "a lot more clarity", so it must be possible to hear that on RUclips.
@@stever128 acoustic meaures would do fine
Great speaker to take a shot at! Honestly I like the look of these speakers better than the newest ones. Now if only I could find a way to protect that tweeter without the wack screen .... hmmm Great Episode, Cheers!
Do your kits come with instructions?
I own these Elacs but for that kind of money I am looking at the XLS Encore with (some) upgraded parts even. How would you compare the performance of these upgraded Elacs vs. the XLS Encore (with and without upgrade)? I am looking for something fresh without breaking the bank. Thank you
The X-LS Encore's are in a different class.
Thank you! Danny! I just got a pair of these! Now I'll have to save up a bit... Thanks again!!! I don't quite understand how the "loop" you mentioned would be set up? Before the video, I would have thought it was just replacing some of the parts. But it sounds like you put a whole new one in. Did I get that part right?
yes he has used a notch filter at 750Hz to smoothen out the woofers response curve
Yes, I designed a new filter.
The upgrade costs more than the speakers?
I just got the ELAC speakers. They are great speakers as they are and I really like the dynamics and details without done any upgrades. I can see the potential in the speaker so I will do all upgrades that I can think of. My previous Magnepan 1.6 and DIY SS 15W8530k00 with Hiquphon OW4 just sounds rather boring compare to this speaker. Box, plastic details and crossover are too bad quality but that can be "modified".
The only thing I don't really like with the upgrade is the way of fix the 700Hz bump in the crossover. It might be a cone edge resonance but is rather low in frequency and the cone feels rather stiff. Can the problem be the thin plastic ring outside the driver. I thinking about replace the ring and use model clay instead (Plastilina). Anybody know the reason for the 700Hz bump?
If I lived in USA there should be no question that I would bought your upgrade kit, but it's get too expansive with the shipping and tax etc for send it to Sweden (probably end up with over $600).
The 700Hz hump was not caused by the beauty ring, but it did need some attenuation.
Hi. Hos are these compared with your XLS Encore’s? Demo?
The X-LS Encore is well above them across the board.
Please do an upgrade on KEF LS50 :)
KEF Q300 Please from Brazil!!!!!!!
Send him a speaker and he will do it
I have some bic eviction series 15" loud speakers. Are they worth upgrading? For the money i like the big sound of them. Would be interested in making them there best!!!!!
ruclips.net/video/-CWVxZIr5t8/видео.html
Hi Danny,
What would be the difference in sound quality between these modified Elac debut 2.0 vs Your XL-S Encore kit?
Or would it be better to compare the modified Elac 2.0 to the sound quality of the NX-Studio?
As of right now I own the JBL Studio 230. I think they are pretty good speakers. I'm just wanting to upgrade to something on another level that won't break the bank to much.
My wife and I do 50/50 with listening to music and movies.
Our listening room size is 14x12.
JBL Studio 230's
JBL Studio 235 center
2x Rogers Speedwoofer subwoofers
To me the JBL STUDIO 230's are just a little muffled in the mid range. It's probably the cheap materials in the crossovers they used. Maybe a JBL Studio 230 upgrade kit would take them to another level. Still not a bad set of bookies for the price.
Thank you...
The X-LS Encore still uses higher quality drivers and even with the same internal parts it is still at a different level.
The NX Studio monitors are in a different league. That is a cost no object conversation for a stand mounted speaker.
@@dannyrichie9743 Hi Danny,
For someone that listens to music and movies with the same system would the NX Studio work for both? I would imagine so. I doubt you'll make a center channel for the NX Studio line. Maybe the imaging on the NX studios are so good you won't need a center channel.
Maybe Paul from the Audio Circle forum will start making a flat pack for the NX Studio boxes.
Do you have a review/mods for the Ushers?
Mmmmm interesting how much is this kit posted to the east mids in england uk?
What about KEF ls 50. could you do an upgrade on them?
Send him a speaker and he will do it
when taking apart these speakers can you please share some box dimensions and volume and port width and depth. if possible stock cross over specs and upgraded specs. and and T/S values for the drivers.
But you do you its your show.
I can measure all of that, but it is not relevant as the drivers and box are fixed and cannot be altered.
Switching woofer coil from low R to linear but higher R coil is a bad idea in 2D speaker, you just loose about 1db of bass. I do not mention change of Qes and caused by this required change of box volume...
Oh yes i just come to impedance chart, you really blow up the woofer to box adjusting (see my comment about Qes), see the woofer resonance deep at original and your chart....
From flat earthers to cube earthers.
Flat to flat to the 6th power, that could result in some serious head scratching!
Subscribed a while back, but have been doing some deep diving into your upgrade series and find it Quite Interesting to the point that it's definitely giving me that ol' itch. Definitely going to keep diving. Glad to hear business is booming. Must have something to do with empirical evidence, something lacking in audio all these years-- Thank You!!!
How difficult is this upgrade for someone who has never soldered anything before?
Update as of 2020. I bought these and thought they were OK. A little dull sounding. So I bought a new premamp (Emotiva) and use it with and old QSC power amp (class C) Still not good . so I bought a new power amp(Emotiva)
Still not good . So I bought a new DAC (Schiit) Still not happy. So I bought a new CD player. Not good enough.
Then I did something crazy, I pulled out and old pair of Wharfedale Diamond V from many years ago. I haven't used these speakers in 15 years. To my surprise they sounded much better than the Elacs . I may have to get the upgrade.
Hi Danny
Can you list parts of crossovers that we need to upgrade Elac B6 upgrade Level-1
What resistors do I need? Models and full specifications
So you want me to do all the design work and make the improvements then give it to you for free so that you can buy the parts somewhere else?
I pretty much outline the whole thing right here and list a total for all of the parts: www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=138550.0
@@dannyrichie9743 Is there a chance I could hear somewhere online the difference between stock (I own a pair) Elac 6.2 and modified using your upgrade kit ? It would be encouraging to make a buying decision... :)
@@KonradSkowronski Hear the difference online? Playing back some sound clips from a compressed RUclips file is not going to allow you to hear how significant the difference is.
@@dannyrichie9743 Oh, it doesn't have to be compressed by YT sound file but for example 2 wave files to download from your site. Anyway, properly miked room/speakers can be kind of informative even via YT. If the upgrade is that good it should be audible even through not perfect online comparison IMHO.
Just a question. That little "hump" at about 750Hz was quite small really. Was it really noticeable in the real world to put the notch filter in compared to the upgraded parts without the notch filter?
That was not that small. It really needed some attention.
Thank you! What speakers would you recommend over these now?
Any and every kit we offer is above these across the board.
@@dannyrichie9743 how does one aquire such a kit?
@@makkkk4444 Visit our website: www.gr-research.com
Not having heard these and just going by your charts it looks like the dip at 1khz is about as significant as the 750hz bump you were focusing on.
I just don’t get it. Shipping is going to kill any discount but I would love build a speaker. Large bookself
No, the slight dip there at 1kHz is nothing. The peak at 750 is a resonance issue.
Agreed