Tech Talk 15: Crossovers

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  • Опубликовано: 26 дек 2024

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  • @ericnortan9012
    @ericnortan9012 Год назад +4

    Just built a complete crossover retrofit. Mirrored my existing crossover with much higher quality parts. I used Danny's point to point style and soldered all terminations and splices (currently the new crossovers are hooked up to my "test" speakers.) It's a 2nd order, I used Z Superior and 16 Guage air core inductors on HF, Clarity CSAs and 16 ga air core inductors on the mids and Audyn Q4 with a fat laminated 14 ga inductor on the bass. I used all 14 ga OFC for internal wiring. I am going to try No Rez in my boxes, hoping the 4 pack will do the job. Initial thoughts on test speakers, even though it's not designed for them, definitely a cleaner sound at all levels (high/mid/bass). Can't wait to get them I my speakers for real. The only thing I'm debating is putting the PTCs back in for tweeter and mid circuits. Argument for them, protection. Against, clarity. I think the smear the sound a bit. I am going to post a couple videos on my weak a** channel if anyone wants to critique them.

  • @gitech7450
    @gitech7450 4 года назад +2

    Thanks Danny! My 2nd or 3rd time watching, I'm just loving all of your content! You are a great mentor and inspiration! Cheers

  • @MT-fw6zp
    @MT-fw6zp 27 дней назад

    lots of necessary basics - thank you Danny

  • @rodney6900
    @rodney6900 3 года назад +2

    Going to pull the trigger on one of your designs soon love the passion you have for Quality sound … Zaph audio and Jeff Bagby RIP 😔 kits by these guys I have done and they’re excellent can’t wait to try one of yours … thank you for informative videos you put out!

  • @TempestMind6309
    @TempestMind6309 3 года назад +2

    Greatest channel on RUclips.

  • @BruceCross
    @BruceCross 3 года назад +7

    It's usually a good sign when speaker manufacturers proudly display pictures of their crossover.

  • @martingarrish4082
    @martingarrish4082 2 года назад

    Really enjoying these.

  • @Freedom89984
    @Freedom89984 3 года назад +2

    I built a 3 way system long time ago with very pricey Scan Speak units. Didn’t get the sound right as the crossover failed and I didn’t have the electronics to measure the frequency response. I needed a Danny then but he wasn’t there in Amsterdam. At the end I replaced the speakers for a factory set from Focal.

  • @joemartin6439
    @joemartin6439 3 года назад +1

    Passive filters are the only crossover for this vinyl lover

    • @listeningto8371
      @listeningto8371 2 года назад

      Analogue doesn't exist. Check out Max Plank and quantum packets.

  • @claremckechnie5623
    @claremckechnie5623 Год назад

    I was instructed to comment; Danny has totally mastered the chiseled but slightly rugged man-look with a day or two's growth which is coincidentally the exact same color as Brad Pitt's facial hair.

  • @markwilson0077
    @markwilson0077 4 года назад +4

    I am definitely on board for this ride. Selfishly, I'm interested in having my towers (Polk S55) and centre channel (Polk S30) upgraded.
    I understand you'll need those speakers in house, to work your magic, so I'm hanging in to get that info and learn how to go forward. Thanks for the excellent work and I look forward to becoming a customer.

    • @JiminyP91
      @JiminyP91 4 года назад +2

      Id like to see this video! Im thinking of buying the S20 upgrade. Unfortunately I have an s35 not S30. But I would like to hear what they say about the 55s.

  • @sookhiangoo1330
    @sookhiangoo1330 3 года назад

    thank you danny for sharing your knowledge

  • @mini14kid
    @mini14kid 4 года назад

    T Y , for your work helping us understand speakers design

  • @deanedgx
    @deanedgx 4 года назад +2

    Hi Danny. I would love to see an example of you're measurement and crossover design method. Great videos, many thanx.

    • @dannyrichie9743
      @dannyrichie9743 4 года назад +2

      See a good explanation of how I measure here: www.stereomojo.com/Small%20Speaker%20Shootout%202007/StereomojoSmallSpeakerShootout2007Measurements.htm

    • @dannyrichie9743
      @dannyrichie9743 4 года назад

      @Benoît Looks like you are correct.

    • @dannyrichie9743
      @dannyrichie9743 4 года назад +1

      I'll have to do a video on that.

    • @deanedgx
      @deanedgx 4 года назад

      @@dannyrichie9743 Many thanks in advance Danny. I've learned much from your videos.

    • @happygil4698
      @happygil4698 3 месяца назад

      what speaker is the cutout shown in the thumbnail?​@@dannyrichie9743

  • @DjRjSolarStar
    @DjRjSolarStar 2 года назад +1

    Quick question, I have a Seas Excel driver that has a response that smoothly rises by 10 dB from 100hz to 2000hz. What do I need to flatten such a broad dB gain using a passive x-over? Can a notch filter achieve this or only a narrower band?

    • @dannyrichie9743
      @dannyrichie9743 2 года назад +2

      You will need to use a filter system like that of baffle step loss compensation.

  • @happygil4698
    @happygil4698 6 месяцев назад

    what speaker is pictured in the thumbnail cutaway?

    • @happygil4698
      @happygil4698 3 месяца назад

      anyone ?
      are these the 5s ?

  • @Enemji
    @Enemji 4 года назад +3

    No crossover is the best crossover. For my taste in non digital music, a dual cone paper cone full range driver coupled with a great amp does it for me.

    • @paulsebring6930
      @paulsebring6930 4 года назад +1

      There are many advantages to a speaker with no crossover. There are also many advantages to a speaker with no passive crossover between the amplifier and the speaker such as an active bi-amplified speaker.

    • @joeygonzo
      @joeygonzo 4 года назад +2

      lol

    • @tomkocur
      @tomkocur 4 года назад +2

      some of us still have some hearing in the upper end of the sound spectrum.

  • @theklipschcave3389
    @theklipschcave3389 4 года назад

    So that's what it is all about? The cross-over is the heart of the speaker and as important as the drivers. Make sense, but I never open my speakers. No RUclips videos like this on the net. So instructive. Imagine customers starting to ask the salesmen in the stores : Now, tell me what kind of cross-overs do Klipsch use here? Are they any good?.... You should have seen the face of the salesman...

    • @jeffharper410
      @jeffharper410 4 года назад

      Any experienced salesman should not be surprised by crossover questions.

  • @5Antvin
    @5Antvin 3 года назад

    What is /are the most expensive passive crossover parts /assemblies available ?

  • @onnonugteren2935
    @onnonugteren2935 Год назад

    I'v been listening a lot at your stories and word but what I missed, it can be I just missed it , but what about speaker cables?
    I am just now involved in it again and it makes so much the sound that I wonder how is it to judge a speaker where do you start? Can you tell us in a perhaps new video about speaker cables and its influence and responsibility? Greetings from the Netherlands, Onno Nugteren.

    • @dannyrichie9743
      @dannyrichie9743 Год назад

      We've done a lot of videos on cables. You might want to check those out.

    • @onnonugteren2935
      @onnonugteren2935 Год назад

      @@dannyrichie9743 who are you? I don't see any at all on your name. Is this a hack?

    • @dannyrichie9743
      @dannyrichie9743 Год назад +1

      @@onnonugteren2935 I am the owner of GR Research and the guy in the videos you've been watching.

    • @onnonugteren2935
      @onnonugteren2935 Год назад

      @@dannyrichie9743 Ah thank you :-) but I didn't and don't see any video about cables anywhere by the way. Perhaps with links? Greetings, Onno Nugteren.

    • @dannyrichie9743
      @dannyrichie9743 Год назад

      @@onnonugteren2935 Scroll through and see a handful of them. www.youtube.com/@GRResearch/videos

  • @paulsebring6930
    @paulsebring6930 4 года назад +2

    Danny, your argument against analog active crossover filters is really: "I don't know how to build an active crossover filter that accomplishes the same thing as a passive filter that I can build and sell to others who can't build or use an active crossover", which is not really a statement about quality. I do agree that a good commercial active crossover is impossible to find and impossible to implement for most listeners with a receiver or integrated amplifier and not separate component amplifiers. You also side-stepped the concept of filter order and phase that is independent of passive or active filter implementation and the impedance of the speakers that interacts with the impedance of the passive crossover. Is the time alignment of the drivers due to the depth of the cones significant considering the wavelength of the sound? Is the time alignment of the drivers significant compared to the phase of the crossover filters?

    • @56ctconger
      @56ctconger 4 года назад

      The answer regarding time alignment of drivers is yes, it is critical. Active is also the way to go. I just has too many advantages. But is is not for Joe average audiophile. It requires technical knowledge skills and the willingness to learn. I favor DSP based EQ and crossover design simply because it is much easier to do well. The necessary devices to do it are available in every price range. The right ones allow the independent adjustment of magnitude and phase response. Using separate power amp for each driver and having it directly coupled to that driver with no intervening passive components offer superior driver control. One unexpected advantage is that it greatly reduces the amplifier demands to the point one can use much less expensive amps to achieve a given level of sound quality.

    • @Rene_Christensen
      @Rene_Christensen 4 года назад

      This channel is basically a hobbyist trying to skip these more technical topics. The video on fast bass for example is hard to watch also, as all you need to know is the impulse response. But people don't want to hear about Laplace transform and transfer functions, so instead it becomes about capacitors sometimes sending current in the opposite direction or whatever he said in one of his videos .

  • @wfo711
    @wfo711 9 месяцев назад

    what speaker crossover is in the thumbnail?

    • @dannyrichie9743
      @dannyrichie9743 7 месяцев назад +1

      Something my editor found online.

  • @questionmark9684
    @questionmark9684 3 года назад

    Hi Danny,
    Thank you for another really interesting video.
    What kind of setup would I want to have to be able to learn to measure the response of speakers? Clearly the first thing is room preparation, right? Tips or reading material for this? Then, for 1m 1w measurements, what kind of mike, sound interface,and software would you suggest?
    I guess what I’m interested in is the process, rather than the absolute result. I enjoy playing with electronics in my very modest lab, and it’s only for my own learning and development.
    Thank you.
    Cheers
    Mark

  • @Eyreon
    @Eyreon 4 года назад +1

    Hi. I love the videos. I’m close to having watched all of these.
    Instead of peppering you with questions, do you have some recommended reading/resources to really get into this?

    • @dannyrichie9743
      @dannyrichie9743 4 года назад

      I really don't.

    • @xedasxedas
      @xedasxedas 4 года назад

      @@dannyrichie9743 You don't? Not even a couple o analog electronic books or get some kinda of electronic course. Like try to get an used osciloscope and start measure things...?

    • @dannyrichie9743
      @dannyrichie9743 4 года назад +1

      Get yourself a pocket Clio and start measuring and testing.
      Most of the books written really just covered basics and are pretty old.

    • @Eyreon
      @Eyreon 4 года назад +1

      @@dannyrichie9743 I so far have a UMIK-1 and I use REW (Room EQ Wizard). I make sure to to set it to 4ms on the measurements.
      Is this okay, or are there huge benefits to using Clio if you're a hobbyist?

    • @andrewtaylor9799
      @andrewtaylor9799 4 года назад +2

      @@dannyrichie9743 Great video. You are extremely generous to share your knowledge. I would love to see an organized discussion of crossover components (caps, inductors, resistors, connectors, etc) and the different quality levels versus expense. For example, what types of capacitors can be used, what are their relative pros/cons, and what are their costs?

  • @vincentpereira8416
    @vincentpereira8416 Год назад

    Ty very much I can listen to talk about crossovers and you explain it very well because I would like to build my own personal crossovers for a speaker system iam thinking of building 2 outdoor speaker boxes each box is going to have 2 ×4"tweeters at 4ohms at 400w and 2x10" midrange 4ohms at 600watts and 2x18" subwoofers at 4ohms 1000watts so each box is going to have these drivers in them so any ideas of the kind of passive crossovers that will work well with this

  • @rexxx927
    @rexxx927 2 года назад

    Thanks Danny i wish my martin logans were worth doing but with the videos i am sure too see something that maybe a better base

  • @gregorycollins3096
    @gregorycollins3096 3 года назад

    Interesting explanations.

  • @shaunonverwacht9626
    @shaunonverwacht9626 4 года назад +2

    Some incorrect information about active filters. They are not necessarily constrained to offering textbook slopes, especially the DSP type. This link is to XOverWizard zip download. This software is free to download. Although proprietary and dedicated to their product, it allows the user to explore the capabilities of biquad filters as applied to a DSP crossover.
    www.groundsound.com/XOW.zip

  • @oraz.
    @oraz. 2 года назад

    If I was going to make an active crossover I'd use an lm6172. It's an op amp, but it's really nice sounding.

  • @64fairlane305
    @64fairlane305 3 года назад

    After years of speakerbuilding I`ve came to this: Pick the suited drivers and go for 1st order passive, nothing moore. If you can`t do it 1st order go active.

  • @mathyoooo2
    @mathyoooo2 3 года назад

    The best way for digital crossovers is to do em right at the source (assuming digital) before the signal is even converted to analog.

  • @markphilpot4981
    @markphilpot4981 4 года назад +2

    I have a pair of ProAc EBTs. It’s a lovely speaker. Cabinet is pretty dead. I don’t know what you would charge to tackle it, but I am willing to let you do your thing to it. I have a problem with the crappy speaker terminals also. They don’t weigh a lot per se but they aren’t light for their size. I can’t stand paper cone drivers or any speakers that use foam surrounds as they project a cheap appearance and since I play them sans grills, these things matter. There were some hardened copper terminals which came out in the late 80s that I should’ve bought but didn’t. They were made very well. Tell me what you think and let me know, okay.?

    • @dannyrichie9743
      @dannyrichie9743 4 года назад

      I am a big fan of paper based cones myself. They always have a more natural sound. And I am not a fan of binding posts. I use these in everything that I can: gr-research.com/electracabletubeconnectors.aspx
      And if you want to send me one of those speakers then I'll take a look at them.

    • @dreamdiction
      @dreamdiction 4 года назад

      All you are talking about is "appearance". You can only judge a speaker by what it sounds like, regardless of what it looks like.

  • @luisrodriguez8639
    @luisrodriguez8639 4 года назад

    Some time ago I build my speakers with Vifa P21w0-06 8 inch poly woofer and Vifa AG25-08-06 tweeter but Vifa closed I don't know why because they made very popular components and they were very good, what is your opinion of that Vifa AG25-08-06 and P21W0-06 ?

    • @repsych
      @repsych 3 года назад

      They're called Tymphany.com now.

  • @danielesbordone1871
    @danielesbordone1871 3 года назад +1

    You're right about electronic crossovers. Those things are nasty and noisy.

  • @scotto541
    @scotto541 4 года назад +1

    ​ Danny Richie , what specifically are some of the trade-offs when using digital EQ/Crossover instead of traditional crossovers?

    • @scotto541
      @scotto541 4 года назад

      *When using higher quality ones, not cheap ones...

    • @dannyrichie9743
      @dannyrichie9743 4 года назад +1

      I have made some comparisons and and found FAR more difference in the quality of the D/A converts used then whether or not there are high quality passive parts in the signal path or not.
      I feel like the DEQX is a solid mid-fi level product.
      Rich Hollis (Hollis Audio Labs) makes the only one that I consider a high end all digital solution.
      Of coarse you then have to use multiple amplifiers.
      A really good quality passive filter and a really good DAC is still top dog. And it's no issue playing your turntable through speakers with passive filters.
      Here is a DAC that I auditioned recently that I can recommend.
      www.denafrips.com/ares
      And my digital guru's are really singing the praises of this one.
      kitsunehifi.com/product/holo-audio-spring2-dac-kitsune-tuned-edition/

  • @keithbickerdike4621
    @keithbickerdike4621 3 года назад

    I wish someone could help me sort my Seas based kit speakers . I have built the crossover that from a SEAS DESIGN and they still sound bad....

    • @GRResearch
      @GRResearch  3 года назад

      Send one of them over and I'll take a look at it.

  • @Tracks777
    @Tracks777 4 года назад +2

    amazing stuff

  • @MickeyMishra
    @MickeyMishra 4 года назад +2

    I wonder how Car Audio DSP measures up.

    • @JoeJ-8282
      @JoeJ-8282 4 года назад +1

      Car audio DSP and associated electronics are definitely no better than any other types of the digital or electronic crossovers out there, with car stuff probably actually being even worse because of the signal-to-noise ratios of most car audio equipment...
      But whether it be for car, home, or "pro" audio rated and designed, I have NEVER even once heard, in all of my 35+ years of being a speaker and audio guy, and relative "audiophile", I've never heard ANY "DSP" related electronic gear that *DIDN'T* "mask" some of the sound and reduce the overall resolution and detail and sometimes even the imaging of any speaker hooked to it, PLUS, ALWAYS adding at least some, sometimes even a considerable and quite noticeable or even distracting amount, of additional noise and/or hum from poor power supply design, and hiss and distortion from either poor quality A/D and/or D/A converters and/or op-amp chips in the signal path, all of which has been extremely disappointing to me, because IF DSP based gear actually *didn't* have all of those additional annoying issues, then they could be absolutely amazing because of their versatility, features, and functionality!...
      Basically however, EVERY single electrical/electronic component in any DSP or electronic or digital crossover has to be of *extremely* high quality and all of those individual components and IC chips must be designed to work extremely well together as a whole unit also, and MOST brands and models are NOT using the best quality componentry throughout their entire product, therefore you still DO have those issues, as mentioned above and in this video...
      That's why it's still better generally to just use really good quality *passive* components in most speaker crossovers, as he mentions in this video!

    • @skandiaart
      @skandiaart 3 года назад

      ​@@JoeJ-8282 go listen to a set of grimm audio ls1be's or beolab 90's, may change your opinion ;). These speakers are made by arguably the most knowledgeable guys in A/D D/A converters, amplifiers, powersupplys and acoustics...

  • @stanyoung4974
    @stanyoung4974 4 года назад

    Why do guitar players love Celestion speakers ? Is Celestion a good brand ?

    • @judysoetedja
      @judysoetedja 3 года назад

      Not from a hifi standpoint: Guitarist needs to create his/her signature sound, consist of himself/herself as the player, guitar brand/type/strings/pickups/etc, effects/pedals, specific amplifier, lastly cabinet(guitar speaker in an enclosure). Almost all (maybe all?) guitar speaker FR are not flat/linear & tend to emphasis on certain tone. Perhaps Celestion (of their numerous guitar speaker variants) managed to capture the crowds preference.

    • @7dollarhaircut
      @7dollarhaircut 3 года назад

      All speakers made for guitar amps and cabinets are purposely trying to replicate the very lo-fi sound of the first electric guitar amps that were produced in the late 40’s and 50’s. At the time, if the technology was available to make an electric guitar sound like an acoustic guitar guitarists would have used those.
      Now, 70+ years later, DSP based guitar processors are able to replicate the classic tube amps (with Celestine speakers), in addition to high fidelity effects. These newer systems use FRFR (full range flat response) speakers, and are able to perfectly replicate a studio processed guitar sound live, and are very popular devices in the studio too.

  • @mostirreverent
    @mostirreverent Год назад +1

    Are there any $3000 floorstanding speaker systems that don’t use crappy crossover networks. Have you seen the insides of Tektons?

    • @dannyrichie9743
      @dannyrichie9743 Год назад +1

      Yes I have and the Tekton's parts quality is fair. Okay in some areas and poor in others.

  • @markyoung7470
    @markyoung7470 4 года назад

    Thanks Danny keep it coming I'm sure I am getting dumber as you go but hoping it will start to sink into my thick skull ugh.

  • @craigellsworth3952
    @craigellsworth3952 Год назад

    My wifey said you been to bring back your mullet.

  • @dmcc8620
    @dmcc8620 3 года назад

    The deep end of the pool

  • @brycelawmaster3746
    @brycelawmaster3746 3 года назад

    holy mullet batman. lol

  • @andrewdolan5087
    @andrewdolan5087 4 года назад

    I agree to a point. But we all do thing differently and we all interpret thing differently. I suppose you need to understand what the design was trying to accomplish. And yes it will be different for every one. I don't think its fair to say that Troels Gravesen got it wrong. Plus he offers theses kit with many levels of crossovers.
    Not every one likes the same sounding speakers, if we did this channel would not be needed.
    www.troelsgravesen.dk/Ellipticor-3.htm

  • @Andrewatnanz
    @Andrewatnanz 3 года назад

    did any girls (real girls lol ) ever post?

  • @Nature_Quixote
    @Nature_Quixote 10 месяцев назад +1

    lol i would be surprised if LADIES make up even 1%... its probably around 0.01%

  • @onnonugteren2935
    @onnonugteren2935 2 года назад +1

    Be shaved next time please!!

  • @DjRjSolarStar
    @DjRjSolarStar 2 года назад

    I guarantee not a single woman watched this lol. Sorry man, it's a sausage party here.