a downside I noticed with Kazali Lunatic: it's really easy to figure out if your lunatic if minions you didn't pick start activating. So something like a witch or even a poisoner is a huge giveaway imo. and it goes the other way around, if the witch you picked as the lunatic never uses their junk that's sus. probably better to pair a kazali with the lunatic thinking they are a different demon. this also means that Kazali wants to pick the most obvious powers if they suspect they've been the lunatic.
It's not such a downside. A lot of roles hard counter other ones. A lunatic that is easy to work because of interaction as or with a certain demon just gives it greater value as a good confirmation role in those games. Lunatic doesn't have to equally tricksy on all scripts, but it's worth storytellers understanding that showing a lunatic kazali is more likely good info for the good team
@@michaelkaram467 The best lunatic I've seen was not even in play, just on the script. A player was told he was the demon. Then first thing in the morning a player next to him pulled him andone of the minions into a chat and declared themselves as the Empath with a 0. The demon player than convinced himself he was the lunatic and delcared it to everyone. Evil team still almost won, as it went down to final 3 but I think the good team executed him anyway. I think it helped that there was a Magician in play, so the minion wasn't 100% certain who the demon was.
Reposting a reply to a comment that I made: One idea for a soft jinx for both the Poppy Grower and the Magician: the Kazali gets to choose the minion token(s), but the storyteller decides who gets to be the minion(s). Then the Poppy Grower and Magician abilities can work as intended. Also, the storyteller can fake a Poppy Grower/Magician game when there's a Lunatic Kazali too.
I like that Jinx for the Poppy Grower. It would be kind of a fun Jinx with the Magician in play if, say, the demon has to pick as many players as they should have minions +1. Then they give the storyteller the minions they want. The storyteller then gives one of those players the Magician token and the rest becomes minions. The previous, already-in-play Magician becomes one of the roles one of the minions were previously.
@@ganema9 For your Magician jinx, I feel like it might unintentionally reveal information that would remain hidden sometimes. The main issue would be this: If the Magician token is passed out before the Kazali picks, then there is a chance that the Kazali picks don't include the starting Magician, and a token swap would need to happen between the starting Magician and one of the Kazali picks, which informs one town member that a Magician is in play, and it would inform the Magician that one specific townsfolk/outsider is in play, when they normally would not know this information. If the Magician token is passed out after the Kazali picks, it's less problematic, but still reveals unintended information. Since the new Magician has already seen their original token, they would know that the token they had is no longer in play. My idea for the Magician was that after the Kazali picks the required amount of minion token(s), then the demon would learn their minion(s)+ the Magician. Then, when the new minion(s) are shown their new minion token, they also learn the demon + the Magician.
@@Mazzis11to be fair in the case of all other demons that's already a thing. You'd get an extra minion and *should* immediately go "oh magician" or you'd not get your minion info proving that there's a poppy grower.
The more I watch this the more I’m learning just how powerful Kazali is! You get to choose your team AND their characters, and the minions have built in bluffs! I know there’s a lot more to it, but it’s pretty cool to me 😊
I'm honestly surprised the way this went down - spoilers below! I thought Good was going to slam dunk this for sure after Chiz picked Kat. A Mutant neighbor is the only one I can see being cagey if asked to help clarify Savant info, and that info was absolutely bonkers good.. so after the pick the remaining info of '4 or more outsiders' is soft-confirming 4 good players. (That additionally proves Kazali, though I think this is the first time ever where I didn't hear even a peep of 'what if it's an (other demon)'.) But that info didn't seem to come out publicly until essentially the final day, and by then there wasn't enough time to let Good work through the worlds. I think Good were just a bit too cagey here, which combined with the lucky Kazali picks to let Evil stomp this. Poor Malaki, after that first night his picks had an almost even chance to hurt Evil as help!!
zero is a number, that is part of the definition of what zero is, the smallest non-negative integer (integers being real numbers, obviously). An "absence of numbers" would be something that is undefined, such as dividing by zero.
MVP for evil, Ritchie.. threw so much suss he became no 1 evil and didn’t seem to share his info, not to mention triggering the barber and mutant outing themselves and creating the barber swaps (which really didn’t impact the game) well done evil
On the "does the Lunatic Kazali's picks not being the demon Kazali's picks" my only thought is that it should operate like the Leech Host pick. I dont know if that counts or not, but it's not an attack either.
The way I understand the Lunatic Mathematician interaction in general is, if the Demon didn't make the same choices as the Lunatic, that leads to the "you think you are the Demon" part of the Lunatic's ability to malfunction (because it signals that they are not the Demon), therefore math 1. So I think it should have been a 1 for that reason, but as long as you explain how you would rule it to a player who asks, it's fine either way.
If Ellen had barber-swapped with Aggie, would Aggie have learned, "You are the Kazali; you are good?" Or would she _only_ have to learn she's the Kazali? Or would the fact she allegedly thinks she's the Kazali allow it not to be said at all? (I am guessing the first.)
It's been a very long time since I ran this game, so I have no memory of it. But having a quick look at the grimoire, it seems that Aggie would have learned she was the good Kazali and Ellen would be told (incorrectly) that she was an evil demon, when she would in fact have been an evil Lunatic. - Ben
@@BloodontheClocktower Which either would've confused a player who didn't have enough metaknowledge, and made them desperately hunt for the REAL demon, or would've ended the game swiftly as the good Kazali kills herself the next night. Sounds like it might need a jinx or something to make it viable, or it's just a thing the evil team should avoid. Thanks for the response!
Jinxes are for characters that don't work together. This is an example of two characters functioning exactly as intended. If the evil Demon wants to punch themselves in the face, you can't create endless amounts of extra rules to stop them from doing it. - Ben
it's a new instance of the witch, so they have to make a new pick (like how if you barber swap the lleech into someone new, they have to pick a new host). but witch already acted in the night order by then, so there's no witch pick that night
On day 2, I would've loved to see Ben give the Philosopher Savant: "Either at least one of Amy Rose's living neighbors has made her drunk or poisoned, or both of Aggie's neighbors are on the good team."
Description: "Tell me the Kazali is somehow simultaneously both weak and overpowered with the official app:" Put me down as "it's just overpowered" please.
The answer is actually both, the reveal game kinda shows that with evil getting rolled because Kazali swapped 2/3 outsiders with a pretty strong town unbalanced for sure either way though
@WolfOfLegend it can be balanced - but it is a bit more down to luck of the picks than judgement of an ST. But then a Shugenja that neighbours the demon is brutal too...and that's another matter of luck.
Can the demon barber-swap themselves with the lunatic? Does anyone have a link to a recording where the lunatic properly believes they're the demon for (most of) the game?
The Demon can Barber swap themselves with whoever they wish. If you want to see the best example of a Lunatic game, check this one out. it's one of my favourite (and certainly most memorable) games on this channel - ruclips.net/video/c5p-o-5lVfs/видео.html - Ben
Character and alignment are not tied to one another. Alignment is only ever changed when it specifies so in the character's ability text (e.g. Snake Charmer). - Ben
Maybe the demon still makes their minion picks, but does not get confirmation from the storyteller that they were successful. They won't know whether they hit a goon, a soldier, or legitimate new minions. It might work best in a script with Magician to add some amount of suspicion when the demon confronts their minions. There could also be a jinx that if Poppy Grower and Kazali are both in play, minion roles are arbitrary (not the players though, to keep player agency for the demon since it's their one unique feature).
Though now that I think about it, I'm not sure how Magician would even work with a Kazali. Still, if there are enough ways for a Kazali to fail to turn a player into a minion, then I think a specially crafted Poppy Grower-Kazali script could possibly work.
One idea for a soft jinx for both the Poppy Grower and the Magician: the Kazali gets to choose the minion token(s), but the storyteller decides who gets to be the minion(s). Then the Poppy Grower and Magician abilities can work as intended. Also, the storyteller can fake a Poppy Grower/Magician game when there's a Lunatic Kazali too.
If I understand the rules correctly, when there were 7 people left the Witch should have just nominated who they cursed as that would instantly win them the game, no?
My understanding is that the rules say if there are ever the same number of Evils compared to Good Roles left in the game, then Evils instantly win. The Witch Curse automatically kills someone simply by nominating them. So you've got 4 Good Roles left and 3 Evil Roles at this point in the game. Witch nominates whoever they Cursed, now it's 3 vs 3 and Evil Roles auto win.@@BloodontheClocktower
Those aren't the rules. I imagine you've perhaps come from similar games like Werewolf or Town of Salem where that's the case, but in Blood on the Clocktower, the Evil team wins when there are two players left alive and one of them is the Demon. Because dead players can still talk and vote in this game, it actually doesn't matter how many good players are left alive, as long as there's at least one. That one person can still nominate the Demon and thus the good team can still win. - Ben
@@chesh05to add to Ben's explanation as he missed that part of your comment the witch does not kill someone instantly by nominating them its if the cursed player nominates someone the cursed player dies
I get that people want to have fun und sometimes making silly plays is fun. But there are more and more instances in these videos where good players are straight up intentionally not helpful to their team on purpose. I din't really get why these types of games are showcased on RUclips. In the end, some of the good players were rightfully annoyed. I just hope this behaviour doesn't spread
I tend to agree. I don't understand Richie's play at all. If you are a high information role then you should be trying to build credibility not destroy it by acting sus as hell. Even the goblin play, best case scenario you survive until final three and then no one trusts your info anyway. It's one thing to make those plays as outsider like Rez did where it makes sense but he didn't do town any favors there.
Just saying...wouldn't it be better if the kazali creates his minions on the second night so the good players would be more paranoied and already told legit info in day 1? Almost like a Marionette
@@BloodontheClocktowerI know but I think it wouldn't be that big of a deal if it is just for the first day. It is hard to find the demon on the first day when they also have bluffs. Anyway great game.
Amne idea: Each Night, choose a good character you have not yet chosen, You gain that characters ability. [+ Evil Amne] Evil Amne Idea: Each night, Choose an Evil character you have not yet chosen, you have that characters ability. [+ Good Amne] just like huntsman/damsel, if both abilities are in play they add each other, just like how a huntsman doesn't add an outsider if the damsel is already in play
Interesting... Generally speaking, I'm not totally sure if the Evil abilities getting picked can balance out with the Good abilities being picked... might be a bit Evil-favoured... as @-book mentioned, likely needs a custom script built around it, but then that'd be difficult to do because then the Amnesiac would pretty much know what their ability is for repeat plays of the script. Maybe the Good and Evil players both pick Good abilities, instead? It would move it towards an alternative version of the Evil Twin, but instead of adding a loss condition, both sides have abilities instead. Also, the Amnesiac(s) should probably be prevented from picking Amnesiac as their ability for the night. :D
@@Kage-Yami I had a thought while reading this. Have it be a Huntsman/Damsel script with the possibility of one of the Amne's turning the other into a not-in-play townsfolk if one amne chooses damsel and the other huntsman
The math doesn't react to a lunatic attack...what do you mean? The wiki says nothing about that. If they made a pick, and the demon learned that pick, that's it. The lunatic worked.
If a lunatic picks (for example) Anna and the demon learns Anna but picks Barry - the Lunatics ability is deemed to have malfunctioned. There are other similar "well it seemed like it worked" Lunatic rules too.
I just thought of the strongest Amnesiac ability.
"You are Jams. You are good."
🙏 I miss seeing more Jams.
a downside I noticed with Kazali Lunatic: it's really easy to figure out if your lunatic if minions you didn't pick start activating. So something like a witch or even a poisoner is a huge giveaway imo. and it goes the other way around, if the witch you picked as the lunatic never uses their junk that's sus. probably better to pair a kazali with the lunatic thinking they are a different demon.
this also means that Kazali wants to pick the most obvious powers if they suspect they've been the lunatic.
It's not such a downside. A lot of roles hard counter other ones. A lunatic that is easy to work because of interaction as or with a certain demon just gives it greater value as a good confirmation role in those games. Lunatic doesn't have to equally tricksy on all scripts, but it's worth storytellers understanding that showing a lunatic kazali is more likely good info for the good team
What I’m hearing is Lunatic probably doesn’t work with yet another demon.
Lunatic doesn't work with any demon then because they just go to their minions and the minions have no idea what they are talking about
it could be better in a script with less visible minions, such as poisoner, baron, mastermind, marionette etc
@@michaelkaram467 The best lunatic I've seen was not even in play, just on the script. A player was told he was the demon. Then first thing in the morning a player next to him pulled him andone of the minions into a chat and declared themselves as the Empath with a 0. The demon player than convinced himself he was the lunatic and delcared it to everyone. Evil team still almost won, as it went down to final 3 but I think the good team executed him anyway. I think it helped that there was a Magician in play, so the minion wasn't 100% certain who the demon was.
Reposting a reply to a comment that I made:
One idea for a soft jinx for both the Poppy Grower and the Magician: the Kazali gets to choose the minion token(s), but the storyteller decides who gets to be the minion(s). Then the Poppy Grower and Magician abilities can work as intended. Also, the storyteller can fake a Poppy Grower/Magician game when there's a Lunatic Kazali too.
I like that Jinx for the Poppy Grower. It would be kind of a fun Jinx with the Magician in play if, say, the demon has to pick as many players as they should have minions +1. Then they give the storyteller the minions they want. The storyteller then gives one of those players the Magician token and the rest becomes minions. The previous, already-in-play Magician becomes one of the roles one of the minions were previously.
@@ganema9 For your Magician jinx, I feel like it might unintentionally reveal information that would remain hidden sometimes. The main issue would be this:
If the Magician token is passed out before the Kazali picks, then there is a chance that the Kazali picks don't include the starting Magician, and a token swap would need to happen between the starting Magician and one of the Kazali picks, which informs one town member that a Magician is in play, and it would inform the Magician that one specific townsfolk/outsider is in play, when they normally would not know this information.
If the Magician token is passed out after the Kazali picks, it's less problematic, but still reveals unintended information. Since the new Magician has already seen their original token, they would know that the token they had is no longer in play.
My idea for the Magician was that after the Kazali picks the required amount of minion token(s), then the demon would learn their minion(s)+ the Magician. Then, when the new minion(s) are shown their new minion token, they also learn the demon + the Magician.
@@ganema9 But that would confirm that those roles are in-play?
@@Mazzis11to be fair in the case of all other demons that's already a thing. You'd get an extra minion and *should* immediately go "oh magician" or you'd not get your minion info proving that there's a poppy grower.
@@DasGanon I meant more it confirms those characters for the good team
This gave me inspiration for an evil amne ability: on your first choose a player, they become the demon, the demon then becomes the lunatic
Sounds more like an outsider than an evil imo
The more I watch this the more I’m learning just how powerful Kazali is! You get to choose your team AND their characters, and the minions have built in bluffs! I know there’s a lot more to it, but it’s pretty cool to me 😊
im devastated that ben didn't go to aggie for fake barber choices
I'm honestly surprised the way this went down - spoilers below!
I thought Good was going to slam dunk this for sure after Chiz picked Kat. A Mutant neighbor is the only one I can see being cagey if asked to help clarify Savant info, and that info was absolutely bonkers good.. so after the pick the remaining info of '4 or more outsiders' is soft-confirming 4 good players. (That additionally proves Kazali, though I think this is the first time ever where I didn't hear even a peep of 'what if it's an (other demon)'.) But that info didn't seem to come out publicly until essentially the final day, and by then there wasn't enough time to let Good work through the worlds.
I think Good were just a bit too cagey here, which combined with the lucky Kazali picks to let Evil stomp this. Poor Malaki, after that first night his picks had an almost even chance to hurt Evil as help!!
zero is a number, that is part of the definition of what zero is, the smallest non-negative integer (integers being real numbers, obviously). An "absence of numbers" would be something that is undefined, such as dividing by zero.
though just because it's funny linguistically, you could argue that n/0 isn't an absense of numbers but rather an absurdity of numbers 😉
@@emdivine true true, but also mechanically the same thing.
Neat game! Cements my opinion that Kazali is way too random to be balancable, but still some interesting twists and turns in there
Maybe it could set the outsiders to a certain number after the minion picks come out. Though that might require too much text.
Wow. This demon will be impossible to balance. Good never had a chance in this video.
MVP for evil, Ritchie.. threw so much suss he became no 1 evil and didn’t seem to share his info, not to mention triggering the barber and mutant outing themselves and creating the barber swaps (which really didn’t impact the game) well done evil
On the "does the Lunatic Kazali's picks not being the demon Kazali's picks" my only thought is that it should operate like the Leech Host pick.
I dont know if that counts or not, but it's not an attack either.
57:20 is the funniest conversation i've ever seen. I love dramatic irony!
oh i didnt realize malashaan and reznora were together
If a barber gets killed, does the lunatic get offered that choice to keep the illusion or are they not told because that’s extra information?
Either is fine. You can offer them the choice if even a Baber did not die. You're only obliged to treat them as though they're a Demon. - Ben
@@BloodontheClocktower Neat. Thank you for the answer.
Man, Ben always look great! especially the dreads, but what's the thing on top? Fairly sure it's not a bandana but I can't think of the name of it?
I think it’s just a big bandana
Thanks! I believe it's called a 'snood'. - Ben
@@BloodontheClocktower Thank you
The way I understand the Lunatic Mathematician interaction in general is, if the Demon didn't make the same choices as the Lunatic, that leads to the "you think you are the Demon" part of the Lunatic's ability to malfunction (because it signals that they are not the Demon), therefore math 1. So I think it should have been a 1 for that reason, but as long as you explain how you would rule it to a player who asks, it's fine either way.
Ellen made some primo picks for her bodacious band of locals only. Great game, cheers!
No mathematician ever has tried to argue 0 was not a number. That is just insulting!
That's a long-running inside joke at Capelli's expense, no mathematicians were harmed during the production on this game.
If Ellen had barber-swapped with Aggie, would Aggie have learned, "You are the Kazali; you are good?" Or would she _only_ have to learn she's the Kazali? Or would the fact she allegedly thinks she's the Kazali allow it not to be said at all? (I am guessing the first.)
It's been a very long time since I ran this game, so I have no memory of it. But having a quick look at the grimoire, it seems that Aggie would have learned she was the good Kazali and Ellen would be told (incorrectly) that she was an evil demon, when she would in fact have been an evil Lunatic. - Ben
@@BloodontheClocktower Which either would've confused a player who didn't have enough metaknowledge, and made them desperately hunt for the REAL demon, or would've ended the game swiftly as the good Kazali kills herself the next night.
Sounds like it might need a jinx or something to make it viable, or it's just a thing the evil team should avoid.
Thanks for the response!
Jinxes are for characters that don't work together. This is an example of two characters functioning exactly as intended. If the evil Demon wants to punch themselves in the face, you can't create endless amounts of extra rules to stop them from doing it.
- Ben
Why did the witch curse go away when the barber swap happened? Trying to figure out what i missed.
it's a new instance of the witch, so they have to make a new pick (like how if you barber swap the lleech into someone new, they have to pick a new host). but witch already acted in the night order by then, so there's no witch pick that night
That was some sexy savant info!
On day 2, I would've loved to see Ben give the Philosopher Savant: "Either at least one of Amy Rose's living neighbors has made her drunk or poisoned, or both of Aggie's neighbors are on the good team."
Description: "Tell me the Kazali is somehow simultaneously both weak and overpowered with the official app:"
Put me down as "it's just overpowered" please.
it's kinda weak if you put in 0 Outsiders :p
The answer is actually both, the reveal game kinda shows that with evil getting rolled because Kazali swapped 2/3 outsiders with a pretty strong town
unbalanced for sure either way though
@WolfOfLegend it can be balanced - but it is a bit more down to luck of the picks than judgement of an ST.
But then a Shugenja that neighbours the demon is brutal too...and that's another matter of luck.
@mrmalaki or just an empath, or ft/dreamer/seam/etc picks demon n1...
Can the demon barber-swap themselves with the lunatic?
Does anyone have a link to a recording where the lunatic properly believes they're the demon for (most of) the game?
The Demon can Barber swap themselves with whoever they wish.
If you want to see the best example of a Lunatic game, check this one out. it's one of my favourite (and certainly most memorable) games on this channel - ruclips.net/video/c5p-o-5lVfs/видео.html
- Ben
@@BloodontheClocktower Does it also change their alignment or only the character? Otherwise it would probably be a bit silly.
Character and alignment are not tied to one another. Alignment is only ever changed when it specifies so in the character's ability text (e.g. Snake Charmer). - Ben
@@BloodontheClocktower Ok great, thanks Ben!
Just watched the other lunatic game, that was pretty awesome indeed!
are Richie and Milk brothers?
How would a Kazali work with a Poppy Grower. I would think that would complete miss up the game.
Maybe the demon still makes their minion picks, but does not get confirmation from the storyteller that they were successful. They won't know whether they hit a goon, a soldier, or legitimate new minions. It might work best in a script with Magician to add some amount of suspicion when the demon confronts their minions. There could also be a jinx that if Poppy Grower and Kazali are both in play, minion roles are arbitrary (not the players though, to keep player agency for the demon since it's their one unique feature).
Though now that I think about it, I'm not sure how Magician would even work with a Kazali. Still, if there are enough ways for a Kazali to fail to turn a player into a minion, then I think a specially crafted Poppy Grower-Kazali script could possibly work.
One idea for a soft jinx for both the Poppy Grower and the Magician: the Kazali gets to choose the minion token(s), but the storyteller decides who gets to be the minion(s). Then the Poppy Grower and Magician abilities can work as intended. Also, the storyteller can fake a Poppy Grower/Magician game when there's a Lunatic Kazali too.
If I understand the rules correctly, when there were 7 people left the Witch should have just nominated who they cursed as that would instantly win them the game, no?
Hi. It's been a while since I played this game. Can you give a little context by explaining why you think that is the case? - Ben
My understanding is that the rules say if there are ever the same number of Evils compared to Good Roles left in the game, then Evils instantly win. The Witch Curse automatically kills someone simply by nominating them. So you've got 4 Good Roles left and 3 Evil Roles at this point in the game. Witch nominates whoever they Cursed, now it's 3 vs 3 and Evil Roles auto win.@@BloodontheClocktower
Those aren't the rules. I imagine you've perhaps come from similar games like Werewolf or Town of Salem where that's the case, but in Blood on the Clocktower, the Evil team wins when there are two players left alive and one of them is the Demon. Because dead players can still talk and vote in this game, it actually doesn't matter how many good players are left alive, as long as there's at least one. That one person can still nominate the Demon and thus the good team can still win. - Ben
@@chesh05to add to Ben's explanation as he missed that part of your comment the witch does not kill someone instantly by nominating them its if the cursed player nominates someone the cursed player dies
We in
I get that people want to have fun und sometimes making silly plays is fun. But there are more and more instances in these videos where good players are straight up intentionally not helpful to their team on purpose. I din't really get why these types of games are showcased on RUclips. In the end, some of the good players were rightfully annoyed. I just hope this behaviour doesn't spread
I tend to agree. I don't understand Richie's play at all. If you are a high information role then you should be trying to build credibility not destroy it by acting sus as hell. Even the goblin play, best case scenario you survive until final three and then no one trusts your info anyway. It's one thing to make those plays as outsider like Rez did where it makes sense but he didn't do town any favors there.
Just saying...wouldn't it be better if the kazali creates his minions on the second night so the good players would be more paranoied and already told legit info in day 1? Almost like a Marionette
Having a single evil player in a 15 player game, going it alone, would be utterly brutal. - Ben
@@BloodontheClocktowerI know but I think it wouldn't be that big of a deal if it is just for the first day. It is hard to find the demon on the first day when they also have bluffs. Anyway great game.
Richie and Ellen really were on niether team
Amne idea:
Each Night, choose a good character you have not yet chosen, You gain that characters ability. [+ Evil Amne]
Evil Amne Idea:
Each night, Choose an Evil character you have not yet chosen, you have that characters ability. [+ Good Amne]
just like huntsman/damsel, if both abilities are in play they add each other, just like how a huntsman doesn't add an outsider if the damsel is already in play
you'd practically have to build the script around that hahah, extremely powerful
Sounds like a Patters amni almost
Interesting... Generally speaking, I'm not totally sure if the Evil abilities getting picked can balance out with the Good abilities being picked... might be a bit Evil-favoured... as @-book mentioned, likely needs a custom script built around it, but then that'd be difficult to do because then the Amnesiac would pretty much know what their ability is for repeat plays of the script.
Maybe the Good and Evil players both pick Good abilities, instead? It would move it towards an alternative version of the Evil Twin, but instead of adding a loss condition, both sides have abilities instead.
Also, the Amnesiac(s) should probably be prevented from picking Amnesiac as their ability for the night. :D
@@Kage-Yami I agree with your middle point, but the final point just brings more chaos to it
@@Kage-Yami I had a thought while reading this.
Have it be a Huntsman/Damsel script with the possibility of one of the Amne's turning the other into a not-in-play townsfolk if one amne chooses damsel and the other huntsman
The math doesn't react to a lunatic attack...what do you mean? The wiki says nothing about that. If they made a pick, and the demon learned that pick, that's it. The lunatic worked.
If a lunatic picks (for example) Anna and the demon learns Anna but picks Barry - the Lunatics ability is deemed to have malfunctioned.
There are other similar "well it seemed like it worked" Lunatic rules too.
This is a jinx between the Mathematician and the Lunatic, which makes the Lunatic count as a misfire if the demon doesn't make the same choixe