I love how Jacqui and a few others continue to play so much with Ben. Makes it so fun to familiarize with their play styles and the chemistry between ST and players. Then you have patters who just does chaotic things 😜 and it is hilarious
I’m going to put a voice in for disliking the optional rule where the hatter allows type-swaps. Makes the game much less solvable and much more random-guess-based. Also, I think you should ask living players to make their hatter choice before dead players. Thanks for the game! Keep it up!
Agreed, as fun and chaotic as the optional rule is, it makes the hatter like a barber on steriods, which is too much for an outsider (BotC doesn't need power creep). If it was a minon with the optional ability or an evil amnesiac ability for execution only, that would be fairer IMO.
This game was still crazy with the FG jump and the barber swaps; I'm not sure the Hatter variant going off made much of a difference, but it might have, given how long the FT lived 🤷♀ Either way now we know what can potentially happen when you put FG/Hatter/Barber/Engineer all in a game I do agree that living should precede clock order; give the living evil players a small reward for staying alive :)
it doesn't matter who asks to swap first because the official advice is to give the person whichever evil role they've asked for, and if that role's in play, that player *has* to choose a new role
It does matter because if the dead choose a role then the living player can't choose it and the dead players chose in most cases doesn't matter.@@mel-burnes
Since TPI has started doing youtube shorts, can we get a supercut of Patters' wrong declarations. The dramatic irony is just too tempting. This 100% isnt a fang gu game, i don't think there is 2 evils alive. I think jacqui is good etc. Just a lite dunking on the great sport, PattersTTV.
Mad Hatter variant with Fang Gu/Barber/Engineer was rough for our FT who was quick to latch onto social reads. There's only so much you can do as a character who normally doesn't live that long, especially with conflicting info. Super fun script, very entertaining, and I hope Malaki still had fun!
I love how well-crafted this script was! So many potential worlds, yet still just enough opportunity for evil to have been found out. Well done to Ben for excellent STing and all players involved!
honestly it makes more sense to run barber swap after demon kill, otherwise the demon can just swap someone into the barber, kill them and then get a guaranteed second swap (and if the interpretation is it happens as soon as possible after the death, they get it the same night) that honestly seems kinda broken to me its much more sane in my mind to have them kill and then swap someone - sure they know the barber for next night and can still chain it - but it takes a second night to make it happen rather than going off all in one night also...right now im not even halfway through the game and its already absolutely brilliant and completely crazy XD
Another benefit: If the Barber swap happens at its point in the night order after the Demon kill, rather than immediately upon the death, it adds a layer of uncertainty for the demon about which player was actually the Barber. They could be anyone out of the Demon kill, yesterday's executee, other day deaths and other deaths that can happen before that point in the night order. I tried filling the script tool with all the non-Demon characters that can cause extra deaths; apparently, all of them except the Moonchild go before the Barber. (Also there was a new demon there, nice.) ...through a contrived series of events, it also allows the possibility of waking the Demon to tell them *three* Barbers have died: Barber is executed, demon kills Cannibal, then one of Po/Shabaloth/Al-Had/Assassin/Godfather/Gossip kills the Pixie who saw Cannibal. Edit to add: Ooh, you could get it up to four if there's also a Philosopher going Barber or Cannibal.
yeah but why would you as the demon ever swap a barber just to kill it a second later, that'd just confirm the players to each other, that kind of chaining is wholly unnecessary
@@mel-burnes because it eliminates townsfolk abilities and the second swap could easily be used to reactivate a dead minion or revive a dead zombuul PS: it also allows for a guaranteed fang gu jump, if the person you are swapping the barber into hasnt been all that public about their role yet - fairly risky, but a way to recruit someone onto the team thats somwhat trusted already
@@SharienGaming well you see Unless you're specifically swapping out an on-death townsfolk like a ravenkeeper then killing them would have the same end result as swapping them into the barber and then killing them a second later. and once again, that would confirm the swapped townsfolk to each other so that's a steep price for defusing very specific roles. and you might as well use the og swap to reactivate whichever role you wish to reactivate can't see anything inherently op about your ps. as you said, it's rather risky and considering the og barber is gonna be open about having been the barber it's gonna be rather obvious that the demon is fang gu, and if the evil team is willing to pay that price for a guaranteed recruitment, they're welcome to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@mel-burnes the reason that doing it instantly has issues is because it allows for 2 swaps in one night - one of which neutralizes a town ability and the other for example restores an evil ability (like by swapping a spent assassin with the other minion)... and as you pointed out, it bypasses most on death and some protection abilities, like mayor, king (choirboir doesnt trigger), ravenkeeper, sage, soldier, farmer, fool... probably forgot a couple and all that while requiring zero coordination with the rest of their team and yes that scenario i outlined in my edit is very risky... but its just one more thing that it allows...not the core problem - pithag is the safer way to get that done...but that requires coordination for the night of the jump to prevent info getting out
So Patters D1 says correct Shugenja info, and the convo with Lyra and Malashaan finds Patters as the real Red Herring. You guys need to buy lottery tickets I swear
I haven't yet seen a hatter game where they went off and not won evil the game. I thought engineer and fang gu might mitigate this but, nope. It seems to stop town's ability to pin down the demon's place on the grim pretty reliably. I'm yet to be convinced that hatter isn't much too strong.
Might change once players get more familiar with the Hatter and start recognizing the signs. A lot of these players play on intuition which they built up by playing so many games, and the hatter really seems to be throwing them. But so far I do tend to agree. At the very least, it seems to turn the final 3 into a 50/50 even in games where the evil team is pinned down perfectly.
If all evil players are hatting and all decide to become minions, do you end the game right there, or do you say "Hey now, you can't all be minions. Someone be a Demon.", or do you only make the last person change their choice? If there's a Lil Monsta on the script, can they decide to create Lil Monsta and how does that work?
If all the other evil players have chosen minions, the last one must choose a demon. If a player chooses to make a Lil' Monsta, they also choose a minion to be and babysit Lil' Monsta that night.
I'm not sure that I understand why dead players in a Hatter swamp cannot also choose a demon, since there are many ways for there to be a dead demon and an alive one. As long as there is only one alive demon, there shouldn't be a problem.
@@RasmusVJS I've been reading through the wiki, and I find nothing in either the Hatter's ability or the expanded rules page that requires this. The only thing it says is that you can't pick the same character. I would defer to the storyteller's ruling, of course, and there are only niche cases that a second (dead) demon would be useful, but I have yet to find anything that says "No you can't."
@@markp7262 On the wiki, under the optional rule, it specifically mentions "who wants to be *the* Demon", the "the" implying you can't choose 2 Demons. Which makes sense, since abilities generally avoid having 2 Demons in play
at "42:20" when George barber swapt with Amy, isnt Amy then a new Instance of a Fang Gu and if she picks a outsider (the hatter) Chaz, he wil become the new Fang Gu??
It's been 7 months since I ran this game, so I don't remember anything about it. But by the looks of it, the Fang Gu had already jumped once, therefore it couldn't happen again. If you check the character's ability text, it specifies 'The 1st Outsider this kills becomes an evil Fang Gu'. This is necessary, as if we didn't limit the jump to just once, we could end up with 3 extra evil players, which is wildly unbalanced! - Ben
Nothing at all. In fact that's a very common strategy. There are often more pressing things that the Demon needs to do though, such as swapping themselves with one of their minions (if they think they're about to be executed tomorrow). - Ben
@@BloodontheClocktower I guess part of my problem is that I can see everything that's happening. I've been watching a lot of videos so that I don't fall on my face the first game lmao, thanks :D
Haha. If you're thinking about resurrecting a Barber to create another Barber swap, I think you're more than ready for your first game of Trouble Brewing! - Ben
by far the most chaotic game ive ever been in. loved every moment.
Considers its you there saying something
Having the Engineer, Hatter, and Barber together was like watching a game of evil team musical chairs. Awesome game!
plus a Fang Gu jump!
I love how Jacqui and a few others continue to play so much with Ben. Makes it so fun to familiarize with their play styles and the chemistry between ST and players. Then you have patters who just does chaotic things 😜 and it is hilarious
patters, who canonically self-leech-hosted. Selling the world where he self witch-curses is far too plausible. he truly is pure chaos
George was 4 roles, or so. With no pit hag on the script. I'm impressed!
Ben clearly had way too much fun with this game, he was bursting during the grim reveal. What a wonderful game!
I like the idea of having the optional Hatter rule that demons and minions can switch referred to as a “Mad Hatter”
Never seen Fang Gu being played like a Lil Monsta
I’m going to put a voice in for disliking the optional rule where the hatter allows type-swaps. Makes the game much less solvable and much more random-guess-based. Also, I think you should ask living players to make their hatter choice before dead players. Thanks for the game! Keep it up!
Agreed, as fun and chaotic as the optional rule is, it makes the hatter like a barber on steriods, which is too much for an outsider (BotC doesn't need power creep). If it was a minon with the optional ability or an evil amnesiac ability for execution only, that would be fairer IMO.
This game was still crazy with the FG jump and the barber swaps; I'm not sure the Hatter variant going off made much of a difference, but it might have, given how long the FT lived 🤷♀ Either way now we know what can potentially happen when you put FG/Hatter/Barber/Engineer all in a game
I do agree that living should precede clock order; give the living evil players a small reward for staying alive :)
it doesn't matter who asks to swap first because the official advice is to give the person whichever evil role they've asked for, and if that role's in play, that player *has* to choose a new role
It does matter because if the dead choose a role then the living player can't choose it and the dead players chose in most cases doesn't matter.@@mel-burnes
@@23Zakira yeah that's fair actually. most cases they just pick whichever role they feel is the least useful so it's nbd but you're right
Holy shit that Grim reveal 😂 Ben was visibly struggling to keep the wires from crossing for the sake of the narrative
“The fake truth.” I’m using that. 🤣
Since TPI has started doing youtube shorts, can we get a supercut of Patters' wrong declarations. The dramatic irony is just too tempting.
This 100% isnt a fang gu game, i don't think there is 2 evils alive. I think jacqui is good etc.
Just a lite dunking on the great sport, PattersTTV.
There was never a demon who picked two nights in a row in this game. That's ridiculous.
I feel like the title of this video should be "However" 😅😂
Mad Hatter variant with Fang Gu/Barber/Engineer was rough for our FT who was quick to latch onto social reads. There's only so much you can do as a character who normally doesn't live that long, especially with conflicting info. Super fun script, very entertaining, and I hope Malaki still had fun!
I can confirm that Malaki had fun.
I love how well-crafted this script was! So many potential worlds, yet still just enough opportunity for evil to have been found out. Well done to Ben for excellent STing and all players involved!
honestly it makes more sense to run barber swap after demon kill, otherwise the demon can just swap someone into the barber, kill them and then get a guaranteed second swap (and if the interpretation is it happens as soon as possible after the death, they get it the same night)
that honestly seems kinda broken to me
its much more sane in my mind to have them kill and then swap someone - sure they know the barber for next night and can still chain it - but it takes a second night to make it happen rather than going off all in one night
also...right now im not even halfway through the game and its already absolutely brilliant and completely crazy XD
Another benefit: If the Barber swap happens at its point in the night order after the Demon kill, rather than immediately upon the death, it adds a layer of uncertainty for the demon about which player was actually the Barber. They could be anyone out of the Demon kill, yesterday's executee, other day deaths and other deaths that can happen before that point in the night order.
I tried filling the script tool with all the non-Demon characters that can cause extra deaths; apparently, all of them except the Moonchild go before the Barber. (Also there was a new demon there, nice.)
...through a contrived series of events, it also allows the possibility of waking the Demon to tell them *three* Barbers have died: Barber is executed, demon kills Cannibal, then one of Po/Shabaloth/Al-Had/Assassin/Godfather/Gossip kills the Pixie who saw Cannibal.
Edit to add: Ooh, you could get it up to four if there's also a Philosopher going Barber or Cannibal.
yeah but why would you as the demon ever swap a barber just to kill it a second later, that'd just confirm the players to each other, that kind of chaining is wholly unnecessary
@@mel-burnes because it eliminates townsfolk abilities
and the second swap could easily be used to reactivate a dead minion or revive a dead zombuul
PS: it also allows for a guaranteed fang gu jump, if the person you are swapping the barber into hasnt been all that public about their role yet - fairly risky, but a way to recruit someone onto the team thats somwhat trusted already
@@SharienGaming well you see Unless you're specifically swapping out an on-death townsfolk like a ravenkeeper then killing them would have the same end result as swapping them into the barber and then killing them a second later. and once again, that would confirm the swapped townsfolk to each other so that's a steep price for defusing very specific roles. and you might as well use the og swap to reactivate whichever role you wish to reactivate
can't see anything inherently op about your ps. as you said, it's rather risky and considering the og barber is gonna be open about having been the barber it's gonna be rather obvious that the demon is fang gu, and if the evil team is willing to pay that price for a guaranteed recruitment, they're welcome to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@mel-burnes the reason that doing it instantly has issues is because it allows for 2 swaps in one night - one of which neutralizes a town ability and the other for example restores an evil ability (like by swapping a spent assassin with the other minion)... and as you pointed out, it bypasses most on death and some protection abilities, like mayor, king (choirboir doesnt trigger), ravenkeeper, sage, soldier, farmer, fool... probably forgot a couple
and all that while requiring zero coordination with the rest of their team
and yes that scenario i outlined in my edit is very risky... but its just one more thing that it allows...not the core problem - pithag is the safer way to get that done...but that requires coordination for the night of the jump to prevent info getting out
This might be my new favourite script.
It’s midnight, I gotta sleep, but the script looks so cool…you can’t do this to me…
So Patters D1 says correct Shugenja info, and the convo with Lyra and Malashaan finds Patters as the real Red Herring. You guys need to buy lottery tickets I swear
I haven't yet seen a hatter game where they went off and not won evil the game. I thought engineer and fang gu might mitigate this but, nope. It seems to stop town's ability to pin down the demon's place on the grim pretty reliably. I'm yet to be convinced that hatter isn't much too strong.
Might change once players get more familiar with the Hatter and start recognizing the signs. A lot of these players play on intuition which they built up by playing so many games, and the hatter really seems to be throwing them. But so far I do tend to agree. At the very least, it seems to turn the final 3 into a 50/50 even in games where the evil team is pinned down perfectly.
Shout out to Amy Rose on final day doing a very good "bad defense" arguement just so she can win!
I was worried she was doing a too obvious bad defense and would lose...
If all evil players are hatting and all decide to become minions, do you end the game right there, or do you say "Hey now, you can't all be minions. Someone be a Demon.", or do you only make the last person change their choice? If there's a Lil Monsta on the script, can they decide to create Lil Monsta and how does that work?
If all the other evil players have chosen minions, the last one must choose a demon. If a player chooses to make a Lil' Monsta, they also choose a minion to be and babysit Lil' Monsta that night.
THE best game of BotC ive seen to date
Day 5 In The Description Is Incorrectly Formatted; It's 112 Not 1:12.
I'm not sure that I understand why dead players in a Hatter swamp cannot also choose a demon, since there are many ways for there to be a dead demon and an alive one. As long as there is only one alive demon, there shouldn't be a problem.
Because only 1 player get to choose Demon from a Hatter. So if a dead player does, no alive player can.
@@RasmusVJS I've been reading through the wiki, and I find nothing in either the Hatter's ability or the expanded rules page that requires this. The only thing it says is that you can't pick the same character. I would defer to the storyteller's ruling, of course, and there are only niche cases that a second (dead) demon would be useful, but I have yet to find anything that says "No you can't."
@@markp7262 On the wiki, under the optional rule, it specifically mentions "who wants to be *the* Demon", the "the" implying you can't choose 2 Demons. Which makes sense, since abilities generally avoid having 2 Demons in play
The only way this script gets more character jumping options is a Pit Hag.
Please run that, please.
at "42:20" when George barber swapt with Amy, isnt Amy then a new Instance of a Fang Gu and if she picks a outsider (the hatter) Chaz, he wil become the new Fang Gu??
Fang Gu only jumps once
The 'once' in the Fang Gu's ability text is global, so any instances of the Fang Gu have it apply to them. - Ben
@@BloodontheClocktower That's clear thank you for answering.
My brain's all tingly now.
Could the first barber swap have been Reznora the Fang-gu and a good player, creating a good Fang-Gu in whoever , and an Fang-gu in George
This was easily the most entertaining game of Blood on the C(l)ocktower I’ve ever seen. Oh my gosh.
Question: why didn't the Fang gu jumped to Aiden who was the barber ATM?
It's been 7 months since I ran this game, so I don't remember anything about it. But by the looks of it, the Fang Gu had already jumped once, therefore it couldn't happen again. If you check the character's ability text, it specifies 'The 1st Outsider this kills becomes an evil Fang Gu'. This is necessary, as if we didn't limit the jump to just once, we could end up with 3 extra evil players, which is wildly unbalanced! - Ben
I want to see poppy grower + barber/// Has that happened on one of these streams yet?
How did Aiden die as a Barber? Why didn't the Fang Gu jump to him?
The fang gu only jumps to the first outsider it kills!
@@garnet970 thanks. I thought it would reset every time there is a new FangGu
A “jumped to” Fang Gu can’t jump again, but a new FG created by (for example) Pit Hag or Hatter would be able to jump.
@@q-tuber7034 no extra fang gu jumps can ever be made, the "Once" token is universal and is not removed by FG coming in and out of play
@@mel-burnes thx, I have learned something new
If the barber can swap dead players, what's to stop the demon from killing a barber, then swapping an alive player with the dead barber repeatedly?
Especially as a Feng Gu. That's seems pretty strong.
Nothing at all. In fact that's a very common strategy. There are often more pressing things that the Demon needs to do though, such as swapping themselves with one of their minions (if they think they're about to be executed tomorrow). - Ben
@@BloodontheClocktower I guess part of my problem is that I can see everything that's happening.
I've been watching a lot of videos so that I don't fall on my face the first game lmao, thanks :D
Haha. If you're thinking about resurrecting a Barber to create another Barber swap, I think you're more than ready for your first game of Trouble Brewing! - Ben
Great game!!
Have an amnesiac ability that makes you an evil minion amnesiac when amnesiac is not on the script.