A weapon for Defending your home?
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The law, imo, is upside down when it comes to self defense. If there is an intruder, in order to prevent becoming a death/stabing/raped/severely injured statistic, you MUST assume the intruder means you personal grevious harm. And you MUST be allowed to use any/all means necessary. This SHOULD be the law. The intruder/attacker needs to know that THEY are in danger, NOT the victim. The victim never asked to be broken into, or attacked. This was exclusively the choice of the perpetrator.
I would generally agree with you when the intruder is an adult. Unfortunately there's the Oliver Twist scenario to consider.
If someone brakes in to my house they will never walk away !! 😎🥋🥊
The law exists to protect the government, not the people. The government does not want people to defend themselves. It undermines their system in which only the government is allowed to use violence.
@@russellramp9805 Same here, better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6.
@@TubeStoo Who would take the time to make sure it was an adult coming up the stairs at 3am . No one in their right mind would . You hit first if you can . There has been incidents near me where criminals were hurt but found to be minors .Their fault for breaking into houses
If someone enters my home in the middle of the night uninvited, all bets are off.
Worry about the legal consequences later.
"Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6."
Absolutely my friend... do what you have to do. Some sick bastards out there that do not care about your life when they enter your property with bad intentions.
I've heard it said you should have a hole ready to dispose of rubbish.
The rubbish in question, by the very nature of their activity is very unlikely to have told anyone where they were going and won't likely have done anything to be tracked or identified.
Such behaviour is not condoned by this lawyer or myself but cited for purely entertainment purposes.
Do what you have to do to protect yourself. As they say : " It`s better to be judged by twelve than carried by six ".
If someone wants to deprive me of my life or property there should be no such thing as reasonable force or grossly disproportionate.
Victims don't choose to be victims, the criminal makes a conscious choice to commit the crime, and often makes a career of it because the justice system serves no deterrent
It's to stop any random idiot using the law to kill ppl. With excuses as such. It goes both ways.
If we are ever on a jury, just remember what reasonable force is.
Absolutely. They often learn more criminal skills in jail and just piss about baking cakes and playing on their phones.
@@DJWESG1Not really... we're talking specifically about home invasions here... You're not going to walk down the street and bash someone over the head and then claim a defence used for home invasion.
My friend suffered a whole string of car thefts about 30 years ago. His business was attached to his house. When the police arrived they found the thief with arms tied, strung up on the garage hoist , Alsatian sat under him and my friend in his chair with his legally held rifle. Apparently the guy was screaming for the police to come and save him, had been let out of jail the day before. My friend never suffered another car theft.
Now your friend would be arrested and jailed ! 😐
A good friend of mine was told by a Superintendent to shoot any burglar who entered his house and then to put another round in the ceiling. He should tell the police when they arrive that he had fired a warning shot into the ceiling, but the burglar kept coming at him, so he shot him.
@@antitheist2000 Yes indeed .... Look at what they did to Tony Martin !.... Outrageous !
Your friend phoned the police ? .He is a better man than me tbh
@@antitheist2000 No . He would not phone it in
In the case of Martin, he was morally justified, as society had failed to protect him on previous occasions. If society cannot protect people then society cannot be right in sanctioning someone who takes measures to defend himself.
He was tortured by burglars. He was so frightened he even removed alternate treads on his stairs and lightbulbs to trip them up, but still they kept coming. Those he shot were no loss to society. 😏
I completely agree with all you’ve said, the Martin case really made me angry, he had been targeted many times previously and as you say not protected, the law in this country is a joke, America is very hard on criminals and we are the complete opposite
I know the following is slightly off topic re this type of case but this is where I hate the justice system in this country! my ex’s partners brother was stabbed twenty two times, died almost instantly, it was horrific, did they get life? No, one got twenty five years, one got eighteen and the third twelve years, the latter two will be out in half that time for good behaviour, the first isn’t eligible for parole until he’s served the twenty five years, for such a sickening crime they should all be behind bars until the day they die, these people don’t just take a life they destroy every member of the family and their partners, we need an overhaul of our criminal justice system.
@@-yi9mu exactly that!
@@desres2281 Those poor caraven dwelling people Martin shot when they burgled his farm for the THIRD time were the *real* victims - because they had been let down by society.
Well ..... according to the wealthy Liberal Elites safe behind their gated communities & private security.
I think Martin was warned a few times before about his behaviour regarding his shotgun from complaints from other people. I think the shotgun he had was illegal as he had his shotgun certificate revoked. Also shooting someone in the back is a no no due to the suspect running away
If I was on a jury where someone was on trial for attacking a burglar I would vote not guilty
Not attacking a burglar
Defending yourself from a burglar
In your home
Ah the old nullification i like it
Same. I don’t even care if they’re ‘guilty’ of something, like going ‘too far’… not guilty!
Absolutely
I suppose it one way to ensure you don't get selected for jury duty..
I don't care whether it's legal or not.
I will defend my family and as the burglar probably never told anyone he was here ,I shall dig a hole in the woods under the cover of darkness.
Problem solved. 👍
I agree. Burglars are not in the habit of telling anyone, exactly what home they are 'doing over'.
Woods have more protection than people.
@@imspyingonyou2243 Unless those people are gypsies.
Now THAT'S the right answer 👍
It wouldn't take much to set the scene up and make it look like he was armed as we heard a simple screw driver in his cold dead hands will probably lead to your release.
Another case, where the law is out of touch with the moral of people.
💯🇬🇧🇯🇲👍
Well take Lucy Letby ..... Many believe she'd look nice in red & orange - but burning at the stake's off the statutes.
The plan now is to tie the hands of the enquiry to ensure it can't be proven that gross dereliction by NHS managers who cared more about the hospital's image than keeping infants alive resulted in clearly preventable deaths.
Well over 90% of folk would happily hang folk like Letby, the Manchester bomber etc
And *certainly* the nation - except the Politicians wrecking the NHS - want an effective and exhaustive investigation into the conduct of Hospital Managers who ignored the warnings medics gave them...... with a view to ensuring criminal prosecutions if justified.
The law isn't supposed to align itself with 'the moral of the people'.
Law is to protect the government, not the citizens.
The law is far too vague! We should be allowed to defend ourselves in our homes without fear of prosecution! 😡
You can . You just have to know what to say when you give a statement . Lethal force can be used if you believe your life or a loved ones life is at risk . Think before you make a statement
We ALREADY are.
@@Interdiction 😂 no. Think b4 you act.
@tuulenkoti The law is not vague in the slightest . The statement you make will make all the difference . Having been on the receiving end of an aggravated burglary ATTEMPT i can say with my hand on my heart that I fully intended to do harm on the individuals that came into my house . One of them was lucky he ran the other not so lucky but they were tooled up which means I could legally have used lethal force on them both . The police were very unhelpful in the aftermath very unhelpful but I stuck to my first statement which stopped them in their tracks . One thing I will reiterate and that it . When seconds count the police are MINUTES away . Learn to deal with feral vermin as you cannot rely on anyone when the time comes
I agree, but gouging out the eyes of an attacker once they had been effectivly incapacitated would likely be going too far, (though there may well be grounds for mitigation)!
I can remember a case where a retired schoolteacher was battered to death by an intruder,in a planned attack, he used a hammer to smash her skull, how in the name of god could she defend her self? The law in this country is an ass!
Most of us will not be Googling permissibility of weapons while our home is under attack.
Because they're all permissable.
I always assumed that if someone broke into my house that they don't value their life above any material goods they want to steal. I don't value their life either. So glad I live where I have the right to use any weapon to defend myself and my property.
In the heat of the moment, how is anyone expected to be able to consider what is reasonable force and deliver that force accordingly. No one knows the capability of an unkown burgler. The bottom line is that if the burgler had not entered the property, the assault on him would never have happened.
100% correct
Dont call the police , just get rid of the burglar. I doubt they had a schedule that can be checked .
i taught my daughter self defense , she is a nurse so she traveled by car ,when she was getting into her car a guy came up to her with a knife to take her car keys , she did not decline , she just kicked him in the balls and got into her car and drive off ,while ha was on the floor holding his groin , sorted and done.
In other words, there is no defence for defending yourself from harm as one person's 'reasonable force' may be construed by the police as 'deadly force' even though the assailant may be intent on using 'unreasonable force' on the person involved!
Yep agreed ! The law seems to be, a decision on the spur of the moment judgement call , and their considered deliberating hindsight, balancing the scales of justice.
Bit like the monopoly board 'just past go collect £200 , or go to jail.
The only advice I've been given is, if you injure someone defending yourself all you say is 'your personal details and that you acted in self-defense', and nothing more, it's no comment otherwise until you're in court (that was from a policeman btw). Things tend to go against you when you answer their leading questions on the scene or in the 'interrogation'...plenty of legal YT vids on this.
Seems you didn't listen. The laws says quite clearly you are permitted to use force, to defend yourself and depending on the individual circumstances you can use deadly force in necessary.
What's worse, it's not a secret. And that information hasn't been withheld.
@DJWESG1 You didn't pay attention. As soon as you defend yourself and the police become involved, what will happen to you will effectively be decided by a roll of the dice.
You also have to deal with the legal process regardless of verdict, which is a horrific ordeal just by itself. The process is the punishment.
@@DJWESG1 Exactly . It is not a grey area at all it is all in black and white ,Reasonable force means if the intruder has a weapon then ANYTHING goes
A long while ago i was told by a passing policeman (told you it was a long while ago) that the barbed wire at the top of my alleyway door could get me in trouble if someone was to climb over and injure themselves.
Since that day I lost ALL respect for the police.
A few years ago, my previous neighbour was having late night drinks with a friend one summer night.
Their french doors were slightly ajar to let some air in.
They suddenly noticed an arm coming through the middle, one grabbed it while the other shut the doors on it.
They called the police to ask for immediate assistance (two women against male intruder)
It took the police 90 mins to get there.
Guess what they said to the two women. You should have let him go and shut the doors 🤦
Yes, you have a responsibility to ensure the safety of visitors, even intruders. The thinking behind this is what if the fire brigade or even a concerned neighbour needed to get in and seriously injured themselves?
That said, supposedly putting a warning sign up does defend you from some liability though.
My mate lives in Tennassee. Just down the road a neighbour has a sign nailed to a tree. Trespassers will be shot.
THEY ARE TUFF DOWN THERE. THEY WILL SHOOT YOU IN 2 SECONDS. GOOD FOR THEN.
I like that, simple and to the point.
Seems fair warning
I also remember seeing a sign saying "trespassers will be violated".
the hells angels also have those signs.The line below it says "survivors will be shot again"
There's a distinction between "having" a weapon for self defence, and "using" such a weapon.
The best situation is an "everyday item" that just happens to be handy.
When I worked in the motor trade I came across many who had baseball bats behind the drivers seat. - obviously a "weapon". I advised them to get a couple of baseballs, and a catching mitt, use them in the park for a few hours get grass stains on them and a few pics and videos of you and the kids "playing" with them. An "offensive weapon" (bat on its own) turns into a handy piece of sports equipment that spends a lot of time in the car in case you find yourself in the park with an hour to kill.
If you do have a conveniently placed weapon in your home make sure it has a legitimate reason to be there. Example, a baseball bat behind the door with no ball, is harder to explain than grabbing a cricket bat from a bag, with stumps, balls, and white flannels.
Yep otherwise I think it's seen as being premeditated. I believe that if you have a sword hanging on the wall as an ornament/antique, you can use that in self-defense. Look up Miriam Carrington in 2020, and see what you think. Sure you can't go hacking away, but you can threaten and defend yourself with it from what I gather.
There's an exception to the 'reasonable force' rule. If someone says something you think is offensive you can do anything you want to them, including kicking their door in, holding them at gunpoint, stealing all their stuff, throwing them in a cage and so on. Only caveat is you need to own a badge to qualify for exception to laws and decency.
The best you can hope for in the UK if you do serious damage to an intruder is if the press is on your side and there is a national outcry if they try to prosecute you, then hopefully the authorities back down. Good luck.
Still an absolute mess having the press crawling around your property and having your private details published.
Crime is going through the roof where I live, my neighbour of many years is selling up and moving away as his wife is too afraid to walk to the shop, its got so bad here.. it used to be so peaceful here and things are getting more dangerous and the police never turn up in good time, as a result if I felt that my myself or my partner were in danger I would use any means necessary to remove that threat, the old soldier attitude that was drummed in to me 40 years has never left me, these days too many are pumped up with drugs and appear to have no inhibitions and also have super strength, my hands and shoulders are both knackered, despite my hand being operated on a few years ago, I cannot even make a fist so the chances of me picking up something to put me at less of a disadvantage would be high, as if they came in to my home while we were in it, I would know they were equipped to subdue and do harm, I refuse to be a victim and would protect my partner with my life.
Always have tools handy that are not demonstrably weapons; " I feared for my life and panicked, Officer Woke, just grabbed the nearest paperweight". Law is best regarded as A] a tool for maintaining the elite status quo and B] an obstacle course to be understood and manipulated.
Here in the US we live in a town in a "Castle Doctrine" state...bottom line, no duty to retreat,, and a low bar to prove as the homeowner ,, you were in fear for your life and your countermeasures involved a firearm..My wife's cousin lives on the other side of town.. has a sign in the the front window next to the door "This house is protected by a 12 Gauge, semi-automatic shotgun 5 nights a week,, YOU guess which 5"...Burglary or home invasion here is not conducive to a healthy, lengthy lifestyle..
You cannot own a gun in the UK if a stated intention is to use it on another person for any reason. However, nobody is stupid enough to risk getting stabbed by their own kitchen knives while they have a perfectly good firearm locked in a cabinet.
I, too, live in a "Castle Doctrine" state in the USA. And where did we get the "Castle Doctrine" and the related "Stand Your Ground" (no duty to retreat) doctrine? -- From the Laws of England. Sir Wm Blackstone must be rolling in his grave.
I would defend myself, my family and my home and if the law doesn't like it tough. I have no respect for the law, namely the police, lawyers, judges or the legal establishment. Everything seems to be to the detriment of the law abiding system and completely in favour of protecting the perpetrator. You see it every day.
@BradleyUK58 couldn't have put it better mate. Scotland is a basket case now.
@BradleyUK58 dont think there's going to be anywhere to go eventually. We're going to have to stand and fight against these tyrants
If somebody breaks into your house they are dead. Castle doctrine. UK laws are pathetic.
Same here. If you cross my threshold, goodnight Vienna
I am 49, been practicing Kyuokshin Karate since I was 4, military Krav Maga Instructor in the Special Forces, (SBS), BJJ qualified black belt and a horribly bad boxer. But you can't learn self defense in a day or two, it's all about muscle memory and practice. I have been asked to hold courses several times, but I have always said no, because I don't want to give people false hope and expectations when it comes to self defense. Self defense is brutal and it should be over in max 10 to 15 seconds, if the time exceeds that, you have given your opponent time to draw a knife, a gun, a baton etc. So from my POV, it's useless, unless you train seriously for a long time. It can't be taught during a weekend or a couple of days. Sorry to say it, but that's just useless.
Wholeheartedly agree, like a little knowledge is a dangerous thing! With weapons carry being illegal in the UK, it's almost certain you're going to be at a disadvantage, even more so when you take into account physical capabilities and the age and gender of the victim. Essentially, the law only makes you a defenseless victim on purpose.
I am 51years old stared training shotokan at 12 years old left the UK at 23 continued to perform Kata until I met a Japanese guy called Hero who was a senior Gojoryu karataka there began a brutal year probably my best . I agree on the self defence courses the kids that attack you have no fear not a chance of getting a wrist lock or knocking a gun out of someone's hand you will probably get stabbed the only survivable solution to an imminent attack is absolute focused violence. On a lighter note sympathy on the lack of boxing skills because after my time with Hero I decided to become a kickboxer so moved to Thailand enrolled In a camp and got battered for a month. I don't like sport fighting but you don't want to break into my space 🙏
@tuulenkoti my point isn't the law, my point is that you can't learn self defense 2 or 3 days or 3 weeks. It's gives you a false sense of security and may harm you more than if you hadn't done the course. It's impossible to master techniques with the necessary confidence and assurance without several hundred/thousands of repetitions. On the street, the best form for self defense is a good pair of running shoes and in your home, just follow the instructions given by the intruder/s, it's usually the safest option.
@@BadlydrawnBen 🥋🙏
I notice US Police continually shout "Stop resisting" while trying to stop someone, even if they have stopped. 🤔May be worth remembering.
He slipped and my grandads old anvil fell on his face I keep it on the kitchen worktop as a tribute.
I chased a burglar out of my mum in law's house and trashed his car with poker from the fireplace, it could have been seen as excessive since he wasn't at all aggressive but the police made sure i worded my statement so that i didn't incriminate myself. So when I read about cops giving a mouthy pissed up teenager a lift home and taking objection to her lack of gratitude I tend to side with them a bit.
He attacked my foot with his groin officer 😂
To many laws, not enough justice - Street Justice.
Surely the right to life gives you the right to defend yourself/ your family with lethal force if someone comes armed into your home.
@BradleyUK58 I'm in the UK matey, I was on about the Human rights act. But then we are to be kept a weak and vassal people in all ways aren't we.
It's time we had a "castle" law as in some us states .
Don't they have a "stand your ground" law that allows you to deal with intruders? 🤔
@@desres2281 no unfortunately not. If you dealt with an intruder too harshly say with a baseball bat you could find yourself up on charges even if he was armed with say a knife .
Steph, you HAD it. Check out Sir Wm Blackstone's 4th vol. of his "Commentaries on the Laws of England." Blackstone's set was used as THE legal source for years in the USA -- and it is still revered and cited as authority for most any point touching on the Common Law. Alas, dumb-ass legislators, whether MP's, Lords, or senators or representatives, or assemblymen (or-women) have in many jurisdictions managed to muck around with the law of self-defence to the point of totally making a mess of things.
@@stephenjones6500 I agree with Chas. Dickens' character, Mr Bumble in "Oliver Twist": "If the law says that, the law is a ass -- a idiot." -- Or at least the MP's and court decisions responsible for the change in the law.
We have a new aspect to rural crime in my area we have all the farm and tool thefts now all the villages where no one locks doors are experiencing everything from parcel theft to plain Burglary all these rats are leaking out of the towns and cities and these kids are ruthless and i went through the system in the 80s these kids terrify me they are all tooled up and its first option its kudos to them . Iv had run ins with this so i don't take chances
We had burglarys where we used to live. It's traumatic to have someone invade your private space. It's ridiculous to expect someone to 'think'rationally when they don't know the intent of the imposer. Anyone who understands fight flight freeze would know the law is ridiculous IMO in this area.
My personal view is that if a person goes into someones house uninvited then they forfeit any rights.
Did a week of 'Restraint and Arrest' at Bulford camp during the 80's. On the first day we went to the NAAFI for a pint and I couldn't even lift the glass. The Olympic Judo team was there training, Neil Adams looked at what we were doing and winced.
When you wrists have been subject to so much pressure it hurts....then we moved onto the Kubaton and that hurt even more.
I was just looking for weapons I was allowed to have in my home. Empty nest and on my own. I was looking at machetes. You may think what the hell? I have been in situations where I have been attacked outside and had a balaclava man walk into my kitchen. So I was looking at weapons for bedroom and house doors. Thanks for this.
Householders get tortured to reveal where hidden savings are and pin numbers etc. Isn't any defence justified for an old person?
I have seen a few times that the prosecution, and some court decisions made the assumption "....should have thought the defense was disproportionate....".
It seems to me that a lot of implications and judgments are oriented to a hindsight way of thinking from the calmness of sitting in a courtroom. Few times have I seen the stress and fear of discovering someone in your home taken into due consideration. Even if the intruder is unarmed it is not easy for an ordinary untrained person to recognize how dangerous an act of aggression is and what the "proportionate" response is.
"Please, Mr. Burglar, let me consult case law on home defense before I decide whether I'll unload this magazine on you." - seems like a Monty Python sketch.
American are you?
The self-defence course looks all fine in theory. In the army and my first training self-defence day, my Captain turned himself into a canon ball and shot himself at a poor Lieutenant who flew 20 feet away. I thought that was the most basic and useful self-defence I've ever seen!
As a Firearms owner in the uk i cant even comment on something like this without risking losing my certificate , i would have to rely on pugilism, and still probably have my certificate revoked
The wise man of Kent 😉 Plenty have been through that for sure and it seems more common these days...it's so hard to get a FAC living in south London that I haven't even bothered jumping through the hoops.
@@LoremIpsum1970 I understand completely mate
Wouldn't the physical abilities/frailties of the householder be a factor ? ➡ a little old ladte would be more justified in using a weapon in self defence than a strapping six footer
People suddenly become a lot more equal when they are armed. Something the government fears.
Who's going to take the time to see if the burglar has a weapon!! 🤨
I was once many years ago a section one firearms holder who shot at a famous gun range in the South of England every week both hand guns and rifles which I had at home and also reloaded ammunition so would also have several hundred rounds in a safe as well as the guns ( back in the day when law abiding citizens where trusted to own weapons )
Anyway I remember well as I always did going to my local police station to inform them I was going on holiday for 2 weeks in case of a break in and on one occasion the officer jokingly said "you do know if there is ever a disturbance at your address we are not coming " hilarious. The pistol show at Bisley every year was attended by hundreds possibly thousands from all over the world and not a police officer (on duty anyway) in sight. Not needed you see . Probably the safest place on the planet.
Such a shame the maniacs of this world who were not and still do not obey the law ruin such a great sport for everyone.
I do remember thinking at the time of Hungerford and Dunblane had those maniacs walked down my street shooting people I could have stopped them so easily with my 22LR target rifle. Of course I only ever shot targets and shooting a person I'm sure is entirely different but still.
Injuries sustained by a burglar should be considered an occupational hazard.
A .case in a small town few years ago near me owner came home to find his front door open and a trail of blood going down the street. Some one got into the house but what he didn't know was the owner had a Rottweiler in the house.
Dogs are the only way in which we are allowed to defend our property, at least for now.
Its every mans right to defend their castle (regardless of politics and prosecution)
On a completely unrelated subject...
For those that enjoy field shooting, it is legal to own and even carry a target crossbow if you are 18+ as it is not regarded as a firearm, some crossbows are handheld like a pistol and some are even self-loading and they're not overly expensive either, and you can perfectly legally buy them in the UK.
Do remember though if you're considering taking up this sport, that it's an offence to discharge them in public or where you don't have permission to shoot, as they are potentially lethal if you accidently hit someone.
Where an intruder has been disturbed, does not flee, but chooses confrontation with you, then use whatever you can and take it from wherever you can find it, to dispel the immediate threat. This will likely mean causing serious damage to the intruder. It will be him or you. The problems arise when householders seek to detain and/or punish an intruder. If those are not your objectives then you have nothing to fear from the law. It's on your side.
I’ll defend my house. If the burglar died, so be it. My house is weaponised!!
A supreme court Justice came out here and said if someone breaks into your home by force and you are calling police but they are getting in, you are allowed to use something like a fire poker to dong them on the head. But it goes back to the crimes act "Any person whether police or not may use force not disproportionate to the objective to stop an indictable offense occurring/continuing". The Objective is to stop them harming you or someone else, or you can even hold shoplifters even without a security license because theft is an indictable offense. But this does not include revenge to bash their head in and kill them cos they broke your door. And you must have witnessed the indictable offense occurring not just think it did.
My home is my castle, says the thumbnail. The USA is very clear on this. The UK - whilst trying to clarify "reasonable" and "unreasonable" - makes it even worse. Heat of the moment, seems to protect you, and 'grossly disproportionate' seems to make sense i.e. tying up, torturing and so on. However, if the householder is a licenced firearm holder, that's where it's unclear. Tony Martin hid in the dark, and shot Fred Barras in the back with an unlicensed shotgun. However, if I were to shoot an intruder having given clear warning, would I go to prison? We love shades of grey in the UK.
If somebody enters my property with a weapon it is reasonable to think my life is at risk and I should be able to act accordingly to the threat.
In order to neutralise that threat it should be expected that I am entitled to 'over do things' and if the assailant dies then thats his fucking problem not mine.
He entered my property with a weapon after all, my response would be fuelled by absolute fear, adrenalin and the need to protect myself and family at all costs.
In such situations the likelihood of me thinking calmly about what the law says is zero.
As someone with 4 young daughters and a new migrant hotel opening up. I'll be going straight to mediaeval if someone breaks in
Never take a chance and assume theyre just there to steal,thats how you end up dead,always assume the worst and be prepared,end the threat permanently,id rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6
Somebody visiting South Africa remarked that the most popular house name was "Armed Response".
Best to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. If someone breaks into your home they are not there to be reasonable or nice, they are there to hurt, steal, assault , etc. Defend yourself by any means necessary. The law is shameful
If someone broke into my home while I’m inside? Then yes I would use anything at hand to cause the thief damage! He has no rights to enter my home. I would plead not guilty even if it meant me going to prison.
If someone breaks into your home, you don't have the luxury of taking time to ponder the law. Basically, it's survival - you or them. Unfortunately, you might be in a lot of trouble depending on the law where you live, but at least you were able to protect yourself and your family.
If someone scaled Windsor Castle would they offer tea and biscuits or the attack dogs? The UK is being filled with hundreds of thousands of brutes on boats.
If I was to get into a fight defending myself, I would seriously doubt my ability to escape the encounter without serious or life threatening injury unless I am armed and even then it's a toss up.
A person who trespasses should be made to leave their rights at the main gate. A person should always feel safe in their own home and should be allowed to use any weapon to achieve that aim without limitation. Time to legalise all kinds of firearms, including the AK-47, on the strict condition that they are only to be used whilst on one's own property - nowhere else. Anyone who takes the weapon past the main gate (after it is brought home from the store, obviously) to be given life imprisonment without parole like in Jamaica.
The law can think what it wants, if someone breaks in threatening me or my family I'll use whatever force I like to make sure only one of us walks out the door, even if it ridiculously means me going to prison - full stop, and I doubt I'm alone.
The Bill of Rights says we can have arms, and that is a constitutional Act taken from the Declaration of Rights.
If you were playing a board game based on outcomes, which character piece would you choose, the burgler/attacker or the home defender, based on English Law ?
The Foreign Office has advised tourists that Florida is a "Stand Your Ground" state, where householders believing they are about to be attacked have the right to shoot first.
It's a choice between getting dressed or getting armed in terms of _time._ Do I get dressed and tackle a burglar hand-to-hand just to keep things 'proportionate' or do I unlock the cabinet, load and make ready before finding out who woke me up? "I was naked when I shot him your honour, I felt vulnerable and exposed!"
So living on my own someone breaks into my house while I'm sleeping. Do I challenge the intruder or not?
If not then I am robbed, maybe beaten or killed, at the least word goes round that I do not defend myself so I get robbed on a regular basis
If I do challenge the intruder and that person is harmed I could go to prison so lose everything including my liberty
How is the victim of an intruder protected by the law?
How is the victim even supposed to know what they can do to defend themselves, and everything they hold dear, if the answer is "It's complicated"?
What about if the armed person at your door was a Met police officer acting outside his jurisdiction without (at the time) informing the local constabulary ????
Forget it. The system favours the criminal, has done for many years, but not at the first. If someone entered my property and began to walk up the stairs one tabletop later and dragged out into the opposite road, would end the matter.
Some years ago, I was attacked from behind, a fella wielding a piece of wood cracked it across my back. I took the blow, turned and with one punch laid him out flat. He ended up in hospital. Eventually the police came knocking and I denied the entire thing, and they could do bugger all about it, as it was the offender's word against mine. If I had said, I did it in self-defence the bastards would have arrested me, because we have a bastard system.
A caution to us all ....
If someone breaks into your home and you use force against them, it is not unusual for the police to request a warrant on your social media activity.
So late at night after a few beers you might post RIGHT HERE something like "if someone broke into my home I would do X, tell the police Y, and afterwards to Z"
Dear god do not assume that your 3 year old social media posts wont get word searched and presented in court.
Personally, if someone broke into MY home, I would use strong language and encouragement, to get them to desist. If things got crazy I would use a Chinese Burn combined with harsh words.
Thats my story and Im sticking to it.
The people don’t trust judges with making the right decision . Using reasonable force for self protection is far to vague and favours the attacker.
Seems like there might be a market for long pointy slide rules which in moments of life-or-death stress we can use to compute exactly how many Newtons of force we should defend ourselves with
Only used Restraint and Arrest once and that was to stop a night club owner in Inverness beating up his wife, but then I was fit back then.
I'd much rather take my chances in court than take my chances in hospital!
This sort of nonsense keeps lawyers busy!!
And a very nice income
them laws are outdated now surely with how things are now
If a person breaks the boundaries of my home, in order to rob me or kill me, I will defend myself even if that results in their death. If the law doesn't support me so be it.
I wouldn't hesitate.
My concern is that if a weapon is used then there appears to be a tacit presumption of guilt on the part of the homeowner.
Also property; if you caught someone stealing your dog for example why should disproportionate force not be allowed here?
My friend got jail for punching one of two burglars and killed him. the other ran away. He got sent down for one single punch because he was twice the size, it didn't matter that he lived in the countryside two miles from anyone with a wife and three kids
The only option is to ASSUME the burglar is armed . You can then use anything at hand if your LIFE is at risk . The main thing is what you say in a statement . You really do have to keep your mouth shut until you get a good story together . 3 am in the morning and someone is coming up your stairs . You end them as hard as you can then worry about the force used afterwards . There are ways and means to make your case look a lot stronger . Think before you talk ..
Was there not a case some years ago, where a guy in Norfolk shot and killed someone with a shotgun…and after much legal pontification, was found not guilty of murder or manslaughter, as he was in fear of his life, and defending his life and property…!!
Anyone trespassing and entering our property will be dealt with, if I’m terrified I won’t care what happens later.
What about “stand your ground”!
Whats the reasonable force test for burgling a house and fighting with the occupants?
If you ever get called for jury duty..look up jury Nulification, the Judge wont instruct you re this, or your duty to review the law as well as guilt / innocence 😮
I machine metal in my workshop, I regularly take deliveries of metal at both the front and back door. From time to time I may lean a piece of metal, maybe still wrapped, inside and adjacent to the door. If an intruder makes an entry and I am there then I will pick up whatever I can to defend myself, defend my family, defend my property, it might be a book, a chair or a piece of metal. I just hope it doesn’t happen or if it does it doesn’t make a mess on the carpet. As for disposing of the bodies, the world is a rather large place.
Disposal? Get some pigs...
With police clear up rate for burglaries so very, very low there is no deterrence for anyone who wants to commit burglary. Even if they are caught the maximum sentence of 14 years is rarely, if ever, handed down by the judge - usually a small fine or community service. So, if I'm burgled during the night I will assume that the burglar intends to do me or my family harm - I will do everything in my power to see that it doesn't happen. As somebody has already posted , it's better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6.
If someone breaks in when my mrs and step daughter are present, law be damned, they’re leaving in a body bag!
I know the law disagrees and speaking as someone who caught an intruder in their home at 2am one morning, as far as I'm concerned, if someone enters your home uninvited, they leave their rights as the door. You should be allowed to use all necessary force to protect your family, yourself and your property. You can't assume that the person is only there to steal your laptop. You have to assume the worst case and do what you feel it needed to protect your household. Some US states have a "Castle Doctrine" which gives homeowners legal protection if an intruder is severely injured or worse whilst invading your home. We should have a similar law in the UK.
I think I read somewhere that the police will also look into the possibility that you lured that person into your home with the intent of causing that person harm if there's any doubt in their mind. I really would like to know what the police get trained to ask in interviews, as all I know is to answer 'no comment'.
I have always stood up for what's right and watch out for others and educate police life is for looking out for each other switch the TV OFF those that don't research have nothing to teach God loves us all +
One major problem with the law and self defense is you are tried by a judge who has probably never been in a fight let alone been attacked or burgled and with the benefit of hindsight.
Im assuming a burglar wishes me and my family harm. I cannot afford anything less. A weapon is a force multiplier that gives you an advantage in reach and leverage. Hand to hand is dangerous and best avoided.
Ill be defending my home and family in a way that benefits me, gives me the advantage over a potentially stronger or drugged up invader.
Id rather be on trial admitting to violence than idenifying the invader who murdered my family member.
Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6
Can I put up a sign outside my house which says
"By entering these premises you are entering into a contract whereby you give up all rights to self defence and will allow the homeowner to kill you." ?
That way it's the intruders decision !!! They know what they are getting into !!! It's a contract !!!
The law in the UK is pathetic, these laws are 40 or 50 years out of date, for home owners that want to protect their homes and family, and need massively updating for the times we live in now, as far as I'm concerned B&E is still a crime in the UK, and if they bring a weapon, into my home, they can expect to get my full force in protecting myself, home, family etc,
I remember a case some years ago, when a man shot and killed 1 of 2 perpetrators that broke into his house, good for him I say and hopefully would deter others from a similar path, I think it's the one you mention from 2002, but the CPS put him in prison until a public outcry managed to get him released, firstly he was in my opinion 100% right to defend himself and property, he didn't know in the pitch dark of night if they were there to kill him, or just steal his stuff, but because it was an unlicensed gun he got screwed over, which is wrong they were still in his house "unlawfully" to do harm, the law needs to be re-written for modern times, to protect home owners against people uninvited and breaking into someone else's home.