Can You REALLY Defend Yourself in the UK?
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- Secure your place now:
buy.stripe.com...
Or email info@polarmacademy.co.uk for more info!
Joint statement on self defence, defending your home, reasonable force, and using a weapon for self defence:
www.cps.gov.uk...
£50 Free for switching Energy suppliers:share.octopus.... Sponsored!)
Join for exclusive content at blackbeltbarri...
Become a Channel member: / @blackbeltbarrister
Support the channel: buy.stripe.com...
or one-off: buy.stripe.com...
TO CONTACT ME: Follow & Message on Instagram:
/ blackbeltbarrister
Media/Advertising requests: contact@blackbeltbarrister.com
For FORMAL ADVICE Requests ONLY:
clerks@ShenSmith.com (non formal requests will be deleted)
💌 Join this channel to get access to perks:
/ @blackbeltbarrister
MY CAMERA GEAR
🎥 Big Camera amzn.to/3Nhbvll (amazon link)
🎥 Small Camera amzn.to/49P3ugM (amazon link)
🎙 RODE VIDEOMic Pro+ amzn.to/3QSnTJg (amazon link)
Gobe ND Filter amzn.to/40OsRLE (amazon link)
Neewer Ring Light amzn.to/46oiLCr (amazon link)
Switch Pod amzn.to/3ut9JXG (amazon link)
JOBY Gorilla Tripod amzn.to/40QBEgn (amazon link)
External Media Drive amzn.to/40Q6QMx (amazon link)
Peak Design Travel Carbon Tripod amzn.to/46u20Wq (amazon link)
Peak Design iPhone Tripod amzn.to/47DzTFg (amazon link)
Aputure Amaran 200x S amzn.to/47zFHQe (amazon link)
Aputure RGB amzn.to/3sTpgPQ (amazon link)
IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER:
I'm a Barrister of England and Wales.
Videos for educational guidance only, Always seek advice before taking action. Videos on my channel are not legal advice and should not be taken as such. I accept no liability for any reliance placed upon the content of these videos or references, therein.
#blackbeltbarrister #lawyer #barrister
Description contains affiliate links; I will occasionally earn commissions from qualifying purchases or leads generated. Description may contain affiliate or sponsored links, for which we may receive commissions or payment.
![Tee Grizzley - Blow for Blow (feat. J. Cole) [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wNLN5xsx5dc/mqdefault.jpg)
I am from the UK (Scotland) and WAS charged with assault as a teenager when defending myself. I was being attacked by two guys who claimed to have a knife at the time. I threw one punch which knocked one of them to the floor while they attacked me, and then I ran like no tomorrow. Police caught up to me about 3 months later, and I was charged with assault even though there were witnesses who said I was defending myself. Police just wanted to charge me and move on, when I mentioned the threat of a knife I was told if I didn't have proof of the claim then they wouldn't be adding it to my statement.
The court ended up dropping the charge against me because it was a minor offence and I was never in trouble previously, while the two guys that attacked me had previous for both carrying knives and assaulting other people.
Before this happened my career plan was to join the police and work toward being a detective. Unfortunately, since that day, I have never trusted the police or justice system in our country. I have had similar experiences since then with being assaulted on nights out in the street and robbed at knifepoint in broad daylight with the police refusing to even look at CCTV of both incidents.
The police have absolutely zero powers to remove anything from your statement. You don't have to sign it until you agree it is your statement.
I have always said police go for the line of least resistance,which is usually the victim of the attack.
You could still join them and then work to change the culture from the inside. That's why the force is in its current state that it is at the moment.
@@TheEulerID They shouldn't have the ability to do that, but they do. Being a young naive teenager who had no idea how these things worked, I believed the police officers at the time. Growing up I was told to always trust the police etc.
@@TeckleEh The naive teenager I can believe. Did you ask for a lawyer when you were arrested?
Rough translation:
It is unlawful for a normal citizen to defend themselves using a weapon, unless, by sheer luck, they stumble across a weapon whilst being attacked, and are somehow able to successfully grab the weapon and then successfully use it against the attacker.
Of course, it is far more likely the attacker uses the weapon on you and beats you half to death.
Though, don't worry too much. The police may be taking a break from policing naughty words online, and be in a position to recover your body.
Welcome to the UK everyone!
Yep - too rough to the extent of rubbish.
The first line in mass control "disarm the masses",and people wonder why the Americans quite rightly will not give up their right to bear arms.
It is possible but not guaranteed.
As with literally everything the police ever get involved in, self defence and weapons laws would be much better if the police didn’t get involved in them.
We should destroy the police entirely. They are the slavemaster's gaurds. They are vermin that protect criminals. Do away with the state altogether.
The moment you enter somebody's home intending to burgle it, you should be considered to have signed a waiver indemnifying the occupant against any claim you or the state may have for harm to yourself.
100%
Not just home invasion, any serious or violent crime.
If they value my possessions over their life then that's on them.
Agreed
The law says otherwise you must use reasonable force, what ever that is. To many people are convicted for defending their home.
You can twist the semantics any way you want, but British courts, police and the establishment in general absolutely hate the idea of people being able to defend themselves. And the idea of someone actually using FORCE to defend themselves sends them into a shiver. It's nothing to do with stopping vigilante mentality and everything to do with keeping the general population totally dependent on authority.
The secret to avoiding trouble for using self defence is don't hang around to explain yourself after you've done so.
So if an intruder breaks into my house and I beat him to death then I shouldn't hang around after the fight. Makes perfect sense.
@@crogeny lol maybe not in that scenario, in many it makes the most sense. 🤣
In a place with that many street cams like UK? It makes you loose the self defense argument.
@@nagyzoli not really. Most of them don't work and are just for show and if its self defence a lot of the time it wont even be reported and so the cameras (if there even are any) will not be looked at.
@@aikighost So basically you gamble on 4 things: 1.) The cameras near your house happens to not work 2.) Nobody files a missing person report 3.) No neighbor see and report you 4.) The guy did not have a lookout friend
My house was broken into as child and it was a very scary situation to be in.
Im now 25 and im a self trained "professional" archer, i just love archery.
If someone broke into my family home again, they would be met by me at the top of my stairs with a drawn bow and arrow ready to loose. I would verbally command them to leave the property and phone the police if possible at the same time. If said intruder ignored my verbal commands and proceeded up stairs i would have every right to protect my family from this intruder with my bow that is stored in my bedroom? Or would i get in trouble for confronting the intruder in my home with a bow and arrow if those circumstances did arrive.
I honestly think its reasonable to put an arrow in someones chest if they broke into yyour home and continued their advanced after being told to leave.
Problem is how quickly can you reload before they run at you with a knife have you heard of the 21 foot rule? That's with a gun. Just pray we never need it.
I don't think you would get into trouble if you only confronted an intruder in your home. Your 'sporting goods' are not on the proscribed list of offensive weapons which cannot be possessed even in a private home. However, if the intruder did not leave, but instead rushed towards you, I think you would get in trouble if you loosed an arrow (even if it didn't hit them). Your actions would have strayed into the use of unreasonable force. A better choice would be to use the bow to keep them at arms length, essentially using it as a staff. Not taking an arrow with you when you grabbed the bow would be a much better option for a legal defence.
You shouldn't even give them the verbal. Drop them and let the ambulance deal with the rest.
@@illegalopinions4082ideally yea but no. A bow takes time to set up and this would most likely be determined as premeditation.
I’m a trained archer myself and unfortunately our laws suck ballz
I agree with you, you should be allowed to do that but the law says no. It's premeditated and arguably excessive force. An arrow through the chest would very likely kill them. You'd never win in a UK court. Please, find another way or you'll be in the slammer too. It really annoys me that not lethals like pepper spray are illegal.
i think the problem is, we are not allowed to proactively defend ourselves, i.e. to own something for the purpose of (self defence).
What is reasonable to own as a weapon .. if it is designed to kill then it is not reasonable force in most cases
You're allowed to own it, not to carry it in a public place.
not so. pepper spray is thoroughly illegal in the UK and you cannot use any firearm with the intent of using it for self defence. some things you can own, just not with the intent of using them for defence. you can only use what is to hand.
Personally I believe we should have those rights, but sentencing should be extremely lengthy if they are misused against others.
@@barneylaurance1865
@@davidioanhedgesmase would be a start.
The problem with that is any weapon that might be usable for defence also has a role in offence. That even includes things like mace, pepper sprays or tazers. If something is purely defensive, like a rape alarm, then it is legal as that is clearly not an offensive weapon.
I hate that the laws were created by people that haven’t ever had to defend themselves. When someone is trying to hurt you, how is it possible to ‘go to far’ in defending yourself?
to have this topic brought up shows the contempt the powers that be in this country has for its own people, they want us defenceless and powerless
They succeeded
Why do you think the federal state in the US wants to 'grab their guns'. Plenty of people don't get it over here cause we're legally neutered. 'Gun nuts'? or smart to enshrine it in their constitution.
I tried to support the cops, but I cannot abide by that female police officer who caused distress, and abused her rights as an officer against an autistic child. Why that woman wasn't fired, I will never know.
Because the "thin blue line" is not between criminal and public but between rich and poor.
Corruption
I've been practising a range of martial arts since 1973 and I've seen a gradual erosion in what you can get away with while defending yourself compared to what the criminals are allowed to get away with while attacking you. Until the minor illness lie and the subsequent lock-downs I was teaching self-defence to adults. I always taught them not to get involved in physical or other altercations if you can possibly avoid or escape them. I always advised them that, in the event they were unable to avoid violence, to do what they had to do and then walk away. Never brag about it, never tell. It seems that the police FARCE have a hard-on for criminalising the law abiding while allowing the scum to rule the streets. Look at the vigour with which they follow-up hurty words, yet allow criminals to maim and kill with seeming impunity. And don't get me started on theft, shop-lifting, and burglary. The only time the police FARCE is interested is if the victim fights back, then you will feel the full FARCE of the law.
Remember the Ninja films and the subsequent banning of weapons which cannot be properly used unless you are trained in their use. Ive seen a lot of idiots hit themselves with Nunchuks as they don't expect it to bounce back after hitting something or someone. Now there are massive restrictions on what you can carry, and purchasing knives or swords. However, we still have people being hacked to death and that poor actual Policeman being murdered in London a few years ago by one of the people responsible for so much cultural enrichment in the UK.
Not so long ago the EU was trying to tighten up the already vague wording about "reasonable force" to "minimum force". Who does that help? Not the law-abiding citizens who didn't even elect them. It would have made it even easier for shyster lawyers (respect to you) to easy the criminals past the consequences of their actions.
I love your videos but you often seem to be swimming against the tide of filth which is, for want of a better word, the UK legal system.
Load of nonsense.
My feeling on self defence is as soon as its done, get off and away, don't explain yourself, say nothing, if asked about it say "what are you talking about? Never happened" get out of the area and don't ever talk about it again.
I switched off when it became clear that you were talking nonsense.
@@colincampbell4261 Yes. seems so.
Well said Sir!
Hi. My mother lives in a cul de sac. There are limited areas for parking. Last week police attended as a 46yr old called 'Paul' living two doors away, beat my mothers partner who is a 73yr old man because he didnt like where he parked on a public road. Photos were taken showing bloodly injuries along with bruising and torn clothes from him being thrown. The police did not arrest the perp despite this being witnessed by two other neighbours. (The guy has been prosecuted for this kind of thing before and of beating his ex).
However, it gets worse. One day later this man threatened 3 old ladies who live eitherside of him. He then proceeded to revving up a motorbike outside their gates purposefully intimidating them. Again the police did nothing. These ladies are in their 80s and obviously frightened in their own homes now. They are all buying nest cameras in the hope of some peace of mind. Why didnt the police arrest that man? The law clearly provides nothing for 3 old ladies and the old chap who was attacked. Is there something I am missing?
Coppers are coward, they would never fight and arrest someone who can give them a struggle or fight. Notice they only arrest the elderly, disabled like that girl with autism or willing people. Most coppers are out of shape and unfit for battle.
There is no money in arresting people for violent crimes… accidentally drive just over the speed limit though and the filth will be all over you like a rash 💰
Ageism in action. The police aren't bothered because it's only old folk being assaulted or bothered. With younger folk involved this could easily escalate to something far more serious. I know it would if this happened to me, but then again I'm a very vindictive & revengeful person.
maybe he's an informer
Update: It subsequently turns out my mothers partner had a head fracture (It will heal on its own). The A&E dept told him to report this to the police. They duly attended the station and unfortunately it was the same young man/officer who effectively turned them away. They asked for a senior officer but he said they were all busy. What do you think? Corruption?
There's a stark difference between what the laws say and how they're currently like to be interpreted in the UK.
You have an absolute right to self defence, and that includes from tyrannical governments who should always be afraid of the people.
If you are afraid of some threat you usually act upon to remove that threat. So does a government. And he is way stronger. Only americans dream about going into the mountain and conduct a guerilla warfare (while having 0 actual combat skills. Having a gun and knowing how to shoot is not enough)
I don't think the police care about that and will just arrest you anyway.
I hate to throw in the words of control freaks' & 'sociopaths ' but the police force is full of them.
it's never a good idea to speak to the police. I can't think of a single situation in all my years on earth that the police being present didn't make it worse for all involved.
We have the bizarre contradiction that if I believe I am safe and am attacked then I am free to use my walking stick to defend myself yet if I think I may be attacked and say I can always use my stick to defend myself then I leave myself open to being prosecuted.
To be quite blunt about it, as things are now in Britain with criminals receiving soft justice, an old lag said to me, "If attacked, I would rather be in court for his murder, than him in court for my murder".
This is how it will be until we get some sense of REAL justice in this country!
I got attacked by an ex boxer when I was 18 he was in his late 40s , id been out drinking stumbled and fell into hi hedge
He came out smashed my face in and a nearby guy pulled him off me
I got changed with assault,abd& affray,as he said i attacked him in the street and had witnesses
Went to croun court trial, was told to do a plea bargain as i was looking at getting 3 years
Police didn't provide any witness statements, photos from when i was arrested
Ended up with been on bail for 19months until trial then 280 Hours community service,£2000 fine and 2 years suspended sentence
I was working full time on an apprenticeship which is the only reason I didn't get time
The courts ,police and solicitors all decided that as i was a young lad who'd been out at a bbq and been drinking,i was the guilty party and not only deserved a broken nose smashed teeth and 3 years of my life on hold for tripping into a guys hedge
The justice system in this country is only there to make money
Had i have been a drug addict robbing people id have probably got a flat and some extra dole money
My instructer once told me "its better to be tried by 6, than carried by 6"
I'd love to hear your opinion on the new Energy Bill making its way through Parliament, with the clause that inspectors can use 'reasonable force' to enter our homes to check they are net-zero complaint. Could homeowners use an equal amount of reasonable force to defend from this particularly insidious home invasion?
Yes, I would like to know more details on the whole net zero thing! Please 🙏
Got any evidence for that clause in the Energy Bill?
@@OrangeNash Yes - the specific clause in the energy bill? Page 165, Section 195 'Enforcement', part 2d) "Energy smart regulations may include provision to ensure compliance with any prohibition ......conferring powers of entry, including by reasonable force; (edited for clarity but it's all there in part 2)
publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/58-03/0295/220295.pdf
So can I carry a handgun in the UK? NO ok, no further discussion needed.
I'M LOVING AND FALLING OUT WITH MY HOME 😢
Doesn't Halsburys Law state that administrative courts are unlawful? What does that mean for council tax payments, for speeding or parking tickets, for all sorts of misdemeanours?
That is absolute rubbish as a law.. Someone breaks into ur house and u can't use gross amounts of force! This guy knows where u live! If he gets put away, he spends 3 years plotting ur death and knows where u live! We should be able to cripple him for life!
Our laws are ridiculous. We have a God given right to defend ourselves with whatever tool is at hand. If someone comes into my house in the middle of the night I have no idea what their intentions are and I have four daughters. I will go to maximum response and worry about it later
It's 2023, when does common sense prevail?
Self defence 😂 Reasonable force 😂 Britain is a joke. Victims are helpless against criminals, police and the courts.
adding the introduction with your name is a step forward. I appreciate that Dan. Thank you :)
So how could a 76 year old man defend himself against a group of teens entering his house and trying to steal his wallet and all he had in his hands was a kitchen knife and a meat cleaver. I would consider this as reasonable force as he is totally incapable of using his strength against them.
So what would happen if he accidentally killed them all would he be imprisoned for murder ?
Police go for the easiest prosecution not if your innocent or not. One of thier favourites is asking you if you hit them if you answer yes then they charge you!
This country is an absolute joke.
My cousin shot and killed somebody forcing in to his house , the police came , thankfully had it on ring camera. Within 3 minutes of the police seeing the video, they shook his hand, radioed for an ambulance to remove the body, no arrest, no charges.
Here we would be screwed.
God i’m glad to be an American. Visiting the UK. Love your country and culture but I strongly believe I should be able to carry SOMETHING to defend myself. Criminals don’t follow the law and will have weapons.
The right to bear arms and the castle doctrine is true legal access to self defence. Anything short of that is a death sentence if you're truly up against it, whether it be physical or legal
My Grandaughter is heading for London this month to see some group, what is she is attacked, how can she defend herself? Not allowed pepper spray in the UK, all I can think of is an noise alarm, which I suppled, but nothing else, I do wish she was not going.
I always thought if both party’s want a fist fight then you can …. My friend was acting tough to a police officer at 18 calling him allsorts . The police officer said to do you want to fight me my friend agreed … the police officer got out the car removed his vest and knocked him out . The other police officer in the car said it was pre agreed so it’s legal.
Tony Martin got 3 years for defending himself and his property.
Problem is with this crap law system is if the assilant is bigger and than stronger yourself how are you supposed to defend yourself? If the person is threatinf violance or is robbing you? Im disabeled how can i protect myself without a weapon
I was lucky I got charged with section 17 with intent as i smashed a couple up with a golf club for robbing my auntie who as learning difficults and I am very protective of, I was so lucky as I was on bail for two years almost and some vital paperwork for the case went missing in storage(posh word for it cant remember) and my case got throw out! but I did learn is never ever use a duty solicitor!
Late cases on self-defence just go to show how much the law is open to interpretation. What the law practically is has changed since that same law was made because the dispositions of the judges who interpret it have changed.
Our law was written under the assumption that its interpretation would be left to the property-owning aristocracy. You are of course going to be very biased against burglars if you are the burglary victim's literal landlord.
My question would be, if an intruder broke into your home say with a knife and their intention was to steal your car. You can’t use self defence against a piece of property but they’re threatening you to get the keys. If you genuinely believe they just want the car but you still defend yourself because you’re standing in your home facing an intruder with a knife, where would that come under? Say you hurt them, maybe kill them. Could the argument be that they made it clear what they want and you should comply? It it still self defence because they’re threatening you or your family?
Wish I could get advice on police not doing job. A disabled man had a neighbour enter garden and tried to attack. Then called police and said was that person who committed the crime not him although was a witness . His daughter done a hit and run on the disabled persons vehicle and a witness hasn't even been asked just as the attack in the garden
I can use absolute force to defend myself and my lot anywhere I exist. The End.
The reason we have been saying we can’t defend ourselves is really about tools or equipment. Is it not illegal to own a weapon to defend ourselves with? For example criminals use all manner of illegal weapons, what is me or anyone to do about that?
Everyone has a right to defend themselves by any and all means necessary
I WILL defend myself. The legal system in UK is not fit for purpose.
my son keeps punching doors and shouting at me throwing stuff usually after weekends
nearly 22 im scared to death of him
Can a UK citizen claim self defence if e.g there was an attempt to drag them off to a quarantine centre, as we saw in Australia during Covid? Are there laws protecting personal sovereignty that could override hastily passed legislation in this type of scenario? Thank you.
So faced with a knife or a gun. I have to find something to protect myself and my family.? We need a second amendment!!
"You are no longer acting in self defence because you chased your attacker off"
Let's imagine a scenario where you had kids in the house, an intruder breaks in and you grab your certified shotgun from the safe, warn the intruder and they lunge with a knife.
Would this be deemed grossly disproportionate and perhaps calculated or would you be covered because of fear of death?
Fighting in built up home? No joke bro. More than one
DO NOT COME TO MY HOME
Yes wooden spoon
Learn to defend yourself with a kubotan and then everything becomes an effective self defence weapon. No need to carry anything specifically illegal.
There was a case recently where a house got broken into, the guy scared off the burglars, BUT then he chased them down and slit their throats.
He got convicted for being excessive.
I rather doubt anyone in Britain shed a tear for those burglars.
If I was a jury on his case, I'd just say "not guilty". Nothing a bit of jury nullification can't fix. I'd refuse to convict a homeowner defending his family or home.
The right to defend your self is the most important right their is, if you haven’t got that, you have got nothing, think about it, if you have got to let someone beat you you to death, and you can’t do anything, all other other rights are useless
you can defend yourself but you will be charged with assault every time because police dont give a single fuck about you they see another number on their quota
iv had to defend myself quite a few ties as an adult where i live and the first 2 times i completely knocked the guys out so they could stop punching me in the head
i was charged with serious assault
so about 2 years ago now i was attacked in my brothers garden so i open hard strike the guy to his throat and took him down and he shames his head on a fence i was again charged with assault
every time the charges where dropped when seen by a judge or the procurator fiscal just before trial
but the fact i was arrested put through the system like a fucking criminal is totally disgusting and should be a crime in itself
i almost served 5 years in the UK for defending myself from a home invasion with a can of cs gas
I go too far alright. Count on it. I am a small guy but when I get attacked (thankfully very rare) I go all out ape till he stops moving and then some.
The risk of the attacker recovering and returning the favour is too great.
Once me and my wife holding our 1 year old baby in her arms walked down the stairs of our apartment building. A junkie ran out into the hallway trying to stab my wife in the face with a screwdriver barely missing the face of our son. He nicked the bridge of her nose.
Immediately we engaged in a fight rolling several flights down concrete steps.
He got the upper hand and tries to push the screwdriver into my body.
My screaming stopped him in his tracks. We reported the event to the police.
Now, you guess who ended up in the locker during the 6 hour investigation. Yup. Me. The attacker never got charged. We moved out as quickly as we could which took two weeks. In that time he stole some of our property, threatened to run us over on the street and had a jolly good time doing it. No consequences.
Fuck the justice system, fuck the cops. I never trusted them again and never will.
just that the meaning of term 'reasonable' changes from person to person and may work with or against you
Absolutely you can just like anywhere else in the 🌎 you bet your arse I will !!
I cant believe this us actually a discussion,if someone breaks into a house at night with your wife and children or grandchildren i will do anything it takes to get the scumbags out of my house by any means necessary with or without weapon mo question's asked.
Better to be judged by 12,than carried by 6 as my old master used to say!
@BlackBeltBarrister fair to say you just need to act in the same way a police officer or licensed security guard would act
What about defending yourself against multiple home intruders when they are under 18.
Common sense should ‘kick in’ 🥋
This is why the guy is a barrister. He's good at using rhetoric to defend the indefensible. The fact that you can't carry the means to defend yourself means you have been denied your right to self defence. Never mind people, suppose a pit bull attacks you or your child what are you going to do, use harsh words? The police and the English / Scottish legal system are a part of the problem not part of the solution. That said, juries also take a large part of the blame so we can't put it entirely on the powers the be, the NPC nature of most of the Britoid population is very concerning.
So you can defend yourself and hope and pray you have a good judge and nothing to bad happens 😅
I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 4
I wonder what the position is if I have a fierce dog who bites the burglar in the butt and chases him off, presumably (but not necessarily) when I am not home ? Unfortunately, the dog is not familiar with the concept of reasonable force, although ironically I think most dogs will - reasonably - bark and growl to threaten and only attack if pushed. Does it help if there's a sign on the door - burglars beware of large unfriendly dog ?
I will defend my family and Property ( and worry about it later ) an englishman's home is his Castle . Take care my learnt friend .
I got stabed in a home burglary on my house and I broke the bloke jaw and I got done and not him..
You can’t “dispel the myth” that you’re not allowed to defend yourself in the UK because it isn’t a myth.
I’m sure you can provide statutes and interpretations and judgments where a victim has been legally permitted to defend himself; but there are too many examples of people who have found themselves in serious trouble for using physical force to get out of situations they didn’t put themselves into.
The fact that women aren’t allowed to carry things like mace really speaks to the way the law in general treats the idea of people trying to protect themselves.
Oh I'll definitely defend myself...
What's the law on using a weapon that you keep under your bed to defend yourself from an intruder in the middle of the night?
From what I have gathered from the video/chat you can't use a premediated weapon for self defence in the UK. It also seems you have to be in fear for your life or fear for lives of people living/visiting the home. If you do use something it still has to be under that nebulas term of reasonable force? The break in intruder does not care about breaking the law. So why is the occupier expected that the intruder won't break the law further by carrying a weapon or makeshift weapon? Flathead screwdriver and combo claw/flathead crowbar is the comon break in tool. So I am going to assume reasonably any break in intruder is armed in some fashion with a potential makeshift weapon.
The thing is legitmate items used for the purposed they are intended can be stored anywhere even under a mere bed. For example I have a five cell maglite they are very durable weighty torches I keep in the bedroom for power cuts household/garden use for under the stairs, loft and shed at night. A six cell is almost 50cm long. I also have a weight lifting set which includes a seperate 6ft steel bar, steel dumbells and the detachable weights are also steel. Pretty sure you can store these anywhere even under a bed? Jump out of bed warm up reattach weights and do some free standing weights. My family love to play bat/ball games. Again sporting gear can be stored under a bed. I also have duct tape and zip ties for legitmate D.I.Y. garderning and sporting purposes. All these items were purchased for a legitmate use for D.IY. houshold. gardening, sports and exercise.
@@PrivateCitizen84I find that ridiculous, I’m a uk citizen born and raised if I need to use one of my purely decorative items to deter an intruder, they will get it, and I will go to prison. We are not free, but criminals are. That is tyrannical in my mind.
@@Messy6610 Tyrants fear an armed populace and criminals don't fear a disarmed populace. So that's a win for the worst people in our society imo. So yeah we are stuck playing a shit hand delt by tyrants and criminals who have all the cards and both have way stacked the deck against us.
If any of my archery equipment bow/crossbow was used in home self defence I would get a fire arms charge and the charge of brandishing a weapon. All my target shooting equipment is double locked up and the bow/crossbow stuff the most lethal are disassembled when not in use.
Thing is if you do DIY, gardening and sports the home is an unwitting ad hock make shift arsenal. So if I was confronted with an intruder and was in "FEAR" for my life or my families life in the home at picked up something on hand be it household, DIY, sporting gear and projected my life my family lifes well we all know potentially from what and so do the Police/Courts.
We all know mostly likely it's an armed intruder with a make shift weapon used to break in. Who's mental state or motivation we have no idea of in the moment. Could be a just a punk or could be out of the mind junkie, pedo, murderer, rapist for all we know. When I got little kids and vunerable adults in the home any intruder is going down as fast as I can make them and duck taped limbs if still breathing.
@@PrivateCitizen84 lol nice. And this is exactly what I was getting at - I can keep my stuff where I want, and under the bed is an excellent storage location. What happens if I get woken up by an instruder and I have a heavy bat-type thing at my fingertips because that's where I store it, and I knock them down the stairs with it?
@@simonabarnett The bat I am assuming is for sporting reasons and it does have some wear and tear with a used ball, right?
Well considering hypothetical situations and working in the frame work of reasonable force and reasonable doubt. You would be in a heightened state of fight or flight vs a unknown number of intruders in fear for your life, right? So you coming down stairs means you are trapped upstairs, right? Jumping out a window upstairs to escape can lead to serious injury and leave you at the mercy of the intruders on the ground floor. Trying to hold a upstairs door with one body weight against a bigger intruder or more than one intruder may not be possible. So they can push into say the bedroom and/or come at you from more than one side. The top of the stairs is a bottleneck defensive position from high ground and you have some range with a bat.
That is where I would make a stand if I was forced to. Keeping the intruders from access to the wife and little kids in fear for my life and my famlies life. You I the Police and the Courts have no idea of the motive or intent of the intruders in that moment. So it is reasonable to expect a fearful outcome of the worst kind as regards to intruder(s).
Well look at London just remember victim's of this machete crazy are not allowed batons ect, are unlikely to because all our trust us in the police that doesn't work when they do not acknowledge crimes 😢
Dear Mr BBB,
I make my own laws.
Yes, you can, but you might well get arrested for doing so. That's the truth. In theory you can use "reasonable force", yes.
Sorry but in the moment im not thinking 'Oh i hope i don't get in trouble for this'... Someone charges at ya, Of course your going to react.
If you don't want to get hurt maybe don't start fight's with someone ?!!
I am now in my seventies, too slow to run, too old too fight fair. If someone breaks into my home at night, and if I hear them I shall use the maximum force to prevent them causing injury to myself and my wife, I shall assume that they intend to cause harm to us and use lethal force if I have to. At my age life in prison is not much of a deterrent when there is a chance that the perpetrator would have possibly fatally injured me anyway.
See that is why the system falls apart. Attitudes like I'm gonna kill someone who intrudes in my house just incase is why the state always seeks to take or liberties away. I have seen off home intruders in the past with two words. Nobody hurt, nothing taken. I agree it's a scary thought as you get older. But seriously get some security instead it's better in the long run.
@@captainchaos3053 I guessed you missed the part about life imprisonment not being that much to fear aged 70? Not only would you have to consider whether the person is fit enough to stand trial but could you keep them detained in poor health. Surprising there aren't more older offenders.
@@captainchaos3053 attitudes like his aren't the problem. Attitudes like yours, where you think you're a big hard man, are the problem. Truth is, if someone broke into your house with ill intent, your words aren't going to frighten them, and you'll end up getting your teeth knocked out or worse.
@@captainchaos3053 The state is not a living organism. It is a machine that does what it's told. If citizens are too lazy to actually command that machine then brainless politicians will use it to their own ends. There is absolutely no logical way for you to say "I was able to see off intruders with words" and apply that to every scenario. If you break into someone's house you should consider yourself lucky if you walk out alive.
In such a situation, you would have done the world a favour too by getting rid of a degenerate.
Shocking news that criminals don't care what the law says. The law-abiding will always be at a disadvantage.
That's what makes our current laws actively operating against the law abiding public
This is why people in the US are allowed to arm themselves. So they can defend themselves against bad men who will carry arms anyway.
@@tanfosbery1153AGREED
Two words. "Tony Martin" used his gun to defend against a burgler in his farm which is TOTALLY reasonable and was Jailed!
Eg. If you have a weapon or means of defense and USE IT TO DO SO YOU WILL BE JAILED! - So this is utter BOLLOX. You can Defend yourself as long as you DON'T do it SUCCESSFULLY!!!
@@AB-C1 Tony Martin DIDN'T use his gun to defend himself, he shot before he could even see who he was shooting at, and continued firing even as they tried to leave the property.
@@AB-C1 this is not the best example of self defence tbh..... and shooting an unarmed man is hardly reasonable is it lol..... he could have told him to lay on the floor and wait for police.......that would have been reasonable...... you cant just shoot people lol, even if they are on your property......
One piece of advice I got from my solicitor was to use any means necessary to defend yourself but as soon as police arrive, produce a business card for your solicitor and refuse any and ALL questions without a solicitor. Not a duty solicitor who works next door to the police station & knows all the cops on first name basis, but an actual defence solicitor who knows the nuances inside out. The police always "just want to understand what happened" and then use it against you. Say nothing at all without a lawyer in the room.
Good advice, particularly NEVER use a duty solicitor, they do NOT work for you.
Who has the money really for a lawyer to actually help
@@Messimagician83 Having the card of a "non-in-house" lawyer goes a long way to making them think twice about messing with you. Business cards are free, just make sure you have one in your wallet beforehand.
@@Messimagician83You'd rather pay a fine or go to jail than pay a lawyer? Weird priorities.
@@cyan_oxy6734 you missed my point. Who can actually afford a lawyer unless you have a lot of spare income or savings.
I have only one thing to say on this subject, "Having two feet in the dock is better than being six feet in a grave". Do what you need to do and worry about the law later.
We like to say:
"Better to be judged by 12 than be carried by 6."
In America we say Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
I've been attacked and had to defend myself. It is impossible to determine what is reasonable during the event when full of adrenaline and in fear of your life.
The laws on self defence very explicitly do allow for the heat of the moment issue, and are very much favourable to the perception of risk at the time. In general, if there are prosecutions on this matter only when it has tipped over into revenge. For example, running after somebody clearly fleeing and then setting about them with a cricket bat would not count as legitimate self defence if there was no credible threat.
@@TheEulerID That's easy to say and each case is different. In my experiance the attacker can only be considered neutralised if they are unconscious, have broken bones or are trailing blood. Most attackers are druggies who feel no pain and can display phenomenal strength.
Ive slashed a knifeman,
with his knife,
while he was holding his own knife.
But he was hired by our local kiddy fiddling cop Sam Brown, Fife Scotland.
Funny how the police chose not to investigate their own crime ?
holy crap ! @@JaSon-wc4pn
@@TheEulerIDwhat if they were running to get a weapon and return?
You absolutely can defend yourself in the UK. Just be ready to defend yourself again when the state comes for you.
Couldn't have put it better
Yes. I've done it loads of times. The trick is some restraint and a valid reason. I.E opponent had a weapon (or bigger than you) and you needed to end the fight quickly....Don't spend 5 minutes kicking the shit out of them. Be fast, be brutal, be efficient, then get cops called after you subdue him and explain why you needed to take him down hard and fast. You can snap arms and break legs to achieve that. The aim is to end the fight in 30 seconds or less and then stop. Remind the Police you are entitled to survive and the opponent chose the consequences.
Tell that to Tony martin.
@@tonysheerness2427I think this is about the worst case to use.
The burglar and his mates weee nasty pieces of work.
However Tony Martin was wrong on in how he went about defending himself and was no saint himself. I found him very horrid person in my experience.
Yeah but that's twitter remark, they well come after you for , they have no time for murder ..anyway you can stab someone fine as long as your a tick box , just on a dress and say your trans , and he misgendered you
Rule 1. your opponent can have a weapon and you cannot (unless you're in a bear Grylls documentary and one just happens to appear next to you)
Rule 2: you have to keep in mind the wellbeing of the possible murderous psychopath because someone who wasn't present at time can claim you went overboard and punish you
rule 3: When you're forced to defend yourself you better start praying the judge isn't in a bad mood or have personal beliefs that put you at a disadvantage
Nope, our justice system isn't stacked in the criminals favour at all
Incredible isn't it?
Incredible isn't it?
I admire BBB's faith in the legal system ... it is long gone for many others.
Well he can't directly criticise the system, since they would be petty and remove his Bar licence off him. But you can Tell BBB is not himself happy with the current standards of Law in the UK.
I value someone who actually knows and understands the law and works within the justice system's position on having faith in said system over people who don't.
Fully agree, it's very subjective and basically boils down on how good the defence is vs the prosecution..
There is a very fine line between reasonable and none reasonable in regards to the other side of things..
To many people have had sentences for defending their home for me to believe what he is saying.
i have no faith at all it is still corrupt.
When will the law acknowledge the fact that intruders had NO RIGHT to break into the house they broke into ! 😱
The case of a crazy dude breaking into a teenager's room when he was home alone and beating the shit out of him until the teenager grabbed a knife from the bedside table and stabbed the guy in the stomach while he was on top of him led to the teenager being charged for murder and convicted because the attacker was unarmed. That example alone tells you you cannot defend yourself in the UK. If a literal child being beaten on by a full grown larger man who broke into his house cannot use a weapon to defend himself
thats the woke juries fault and a bad lawyer..
@@ianhandforth5672 "woke juries" 😂😂
Similarly, a woman dealing with an attacker.
Always use MAXIMUM force in self defence, better to be prosecuted by the state then killed.
A lad with a golf club ran at my mother who was now in early motor nouron disease on her door step holding two walking sticks, my brother took a oversized heavy huge novality baseball bat with the curved end cut off into a angle for maximum PULP EFFECT and leathered that chav black n blue also breaking bone are estate went mad when he wasn’t bailed and my mother shat her self trapped in the living room unable to get upstairs to the toilet trying to charge him with gbh 10s of people went to the station we don’t think so a good clubbed teen 6 foot tall attacks a 5 foot old women with motor nouron he got what he asked for a good clubbing
@@audie-cashstack-uk4881....i think i know what your saying... on my fourth read through but il get there 👍
*than
Why the fuck does no-one know how to spell any more?
Everyone in here has cte and can't write properly.
UK citizen here.
If someone breaks into my house to steal my hard earned belongings, then they are going to get it.
We should have the final decision protecting our house/family and belongings.
Reasonable force is such a wide ranging get out.
The Law should make it clear if you break into someones house/property then there is no protection on you the thief.
Do it, if you have to. the media will be on your side later.
IMO one of the biggest problems with our laws is the use of words like "reasonable". They are so open to interpretation that they can be twisted to allow loopholes in both prosecution and defence.
Yep, same with "offensive" and "hate speech"
It’s by design. This is so that rich and connected people can get off the hook for anything, while the poor and middle classes are ruled over with an iron fist by a tyrannical 2 tier system hidden in plain sight. If a normal non-wealthy person defends themselves it’s automatically deemed unreasonable in every way and the maximum penalty needs to be sought. To get a “reasonable” verdict you need expensive lawyers at minimum.
They create as much grey area on purpose so they can twist the law to suit them.
The sad reality is the entire system is more concerned with the rights of criminals than the decent citizen.
That's nonsense. It's only sad that you misunderstand 'the entire system' so badly.
@@JakobusVdL Yes. People who make such comments tend to be utterly ignorant.
@@JakobusVdLWhen you see how corrupt the system is, and the people running the country - is he wrong?
Frankfurt School of Marxism : "An unreliable legal system with bias against victims of crime"
The system ... the police ... are more concerned about achieving their targets (as introduced by Blair). They won't waste time on trying to find a guilty person if it's easier to stitch up an innocent person. Immigration police operate in the same manner. I have first hand experience and numerous accounts of this.
How can you determine reasonable force when you defending your self?self preservation kicks in,the police will take the line of least resistance i.e. The victim.
Stop your defence activities when the threat is no longer imminent, and you’re good 👍🏻
My worry would be that the jury are not there at the time,the police have a way of manipulating the truth,
Disable your attacker and escape. Don't disable your attacker and continue to inflict harm them as a form of punishment for attacking you. It's quite simple really.
Stop when the threat is neutralised.
In Regina v Palmer the Judge conceded that "it is accepted that it cannot be weighed to a nicety, the amount of force required". I'm paraphrasing here, I cannot remember the exact wording.
As the Americans say, "better to be judged by six, then carried by six". That's how I see the world
Judged by 12 you mean? That's a small jury, but handily enough to carry you out if you die of shock
than*
Not all of us have £100k on hand to pay for a competent legal team.
@@MrEdrftgyuji household insurance should theoretically cover £50,000. Plus there's the possibility of Legal Aid
Not in the UK.
When Police kill people they quote " I believed that my life and the life of others were in danger" that's all they say or need to say.
You try that if you kill some burglar in your house.
You'd almost certainly be arrested then bailed while further investigations were made.
The CPS would be looking to try to convict you not to be looking for a way to convict you.
On the other hand, hurting someone's feelings, rather than their body, will definitely get you into trouble.
Hahaha, absolutely!
The justice system is so broken that no one trusts it... And how can a jury make an informed decision when lawyers bend the truth and when they don't know the answers they will word something so it sounds like you are guilty when you've got video evidence to prove you're not... They don't want the truth, they want the gossip, and gossip turns into untruths and opinions and opinions are heard by the jury, and THAT'S what they act on...
Had that by bringing a complaint to a Pub Landlady whom lied and pulled out of a contract!
Her husband also then got away with headbutting me which Police denied seeing caught on CCTV.
I do not recognise my country.
@@macmusica That's the idea (that we won't recognise it).
@@macmusicaYour country died a while ago. Fuck off to America, get licensed, buy a gun and quit being a victim.
Do what you have to do and do it properly .... NEVER become a victim to anyone ! 💪🏴
In a nut shell:
Criminals can attack you viciously. But, by law, you're only allowed to use "reasonable force" to SAVE YOUR LIFE.
What makes you think that defending yourself with more force than if someone was simply slapping your face would not be “reasonable” in that case?
Why are you so desperate to use unreasonable force?
@@chrisl461 Because in times of crisis, an innocent person whom was attacked should not have to worry about these type of things. Instead, a criminal can create a situation, innocent person reacts and they are screwed over for it. However, if the criminal was not born or was not a prick in the first place, the situation would have never happened. Therefore, the fault lies on the criminal being an arsehole which caused the entire mess in first place.
If a criminal is in your home, you should be allowed to kill simple as. It is your castle and you are the king. Don't want to die? Okay cool, don't enter into peoples homes. It's a damn simple easy to follow rule. (As just one example)
Don't be stupid. You have the choice to also be a criminal and use whatever force you want... but it will not be supported by the law. Similarly, the criminal isn't exactly being supported by the law either... so don't pretend they are somehow "allowed" to use more force than you are.
@@LordDaveKoreshuk police are also required to use “reasonable force” but they also have access to batons tazers pepper spray and guns ive seen 8 officers with bats and shields unable to take down one overweight man with a knife to where they called 2 squads of firearm officers if even our own police cannot protect us we must be allowed to do so ourselves the “reasonable force” argument also makes no sense as how many handcuffed men are on video being battered by multiple officers but one innocent person with no training is expected to become jackie chan and disarm criminals “reasonably” rather than taking the measures to ensure they do not become a victim
If someone gets hurt, or killed, in the process of committing a serious criminal offence then the state shouldn't intervene!
Every rnglishmen is sovereign dam right
and what constitutes a 'serious' criminal offence? But I agree with you.
Why not just say" criminal offence"@@matoko123
@@ianogden5067 Quite. I was questioning the opening comment what the differentiation was.
FOR THE VICTIM OF CRIME TO BE FURTHER TRAUMATIZED AND TREATED AS THE GUILTY ONE BY BEING FORCED TO SUBMIT TO INTERROGATION AND TRIAL IS A GROSS INJUSTICE AND A CRIME WITHIN ITSELF
I'd argue that posting comments in all capitals is a far more heinous crime 😂
You clearly have no idea.
Am I the only one who never reads comments in all caps?
Could be worse, I got 3 years in jail for defending myself
@@Doddster1983 Do you mean defended yourself in court or from an attacker? If from an attacker you probably got that because you went beyond defending yourself or you incriminated yourself with the words you used.
Lawyers can talk for hours about the intricacies of the law, but I know one thing for sure. If anyone attacks me or my family, in the street, or in my home, then all the force that I can muster will be used against them. I can always get someone like you to speak for me when the government or their bully boys come for me, as they no doubt will. Such is the sad state of the world we have to live I these days. However, I will have the satisfaction of knowing that my family are safe.
My friend defended herself against her ex boyfriend who had a knife. Because he reported it as "she went for him" with a knife, she was put in jail for 4 months and is currently wearing a tag. Her word against his, yet the police are totally going by his word. 👌 her barrister is confident she'll get off but in the mean time she lost her house and a good job. The law is shit.
I am sure your version of events is 100% factual.
no doubt...
this is an outrage!
said no one ever!
@@Jafmanz Well her barrister is very confident that she'll be found innocent. I've known this friend for over 20 years and nothing close to this has ever happened to her before. I bumped into him not long after the incident and he started to spew lies which I know are lies because I've seen the police pictures of the "wounds" and the police interview with him, so yeah, I'm pretty sure of the injustice, thanks for your input.
Did you leave a pointless reply to all the other comments here that have had a very similar experience with the uk police and justice system? Because my friend is certainly not the only one.
it does not matter what you believe nor what I believe nor anyone else reading the comments. The only thing that matters is what the justice system decides! The internet is awash with lies, half-truths, ignorance and deception.
You might be telling the truth about what you believe but you might also be wrong! you might be partially correct and missing some key information.. or you could be a very good story teller with some other agenda. It could be a combination of many of those and some I've not mentioned..
who knows?
I don't believe a word because I have no logical reason to do so.
The first thing that strikes me is that your friend defended herself. That means she was being attacked by a man with a knife. Is she 6 foot tall and 275lb's? did she also have a knife? a gun perhaps? did he attack her with a knife with his eyes shut? half heartedly poking into the air around her?
you have omitted so much! and yet divulged a very unbelievable scenario!
I hope that makes perfect sense!
In other news I was sent to prison in 2003 I was attacked by 2 men with swords and they twisted it around and said I had a sword...
I obviously won the engagement but the police believed them because well you know I told them there was 2 of them with swords...
To be clear here if the scenario was accurate and not much of note was omitted then I hope and trust that any man who attacks a woman with a knife (without fearing for his own life because x,y,z) gets a very long time in prison picking up the soap.
@@gardian1701
There is something more to your story that you are not mentioning because the opposite is what normally happens! The man regardless of innocence has everything against him in cases liek this.
@@v4skunk739 Completely not true.