Parking Charge Notice RESULT!!!
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- Опубликовано: 5 янв 2025
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Note: Obviously a typo in the letter, which should read July, not August and was corrected before submitting it! I was clearly thinking of the deadline when I first typed it! 😅
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What if they sue me? • A REALISTIC Overview o...
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Note: Obviously a typo in the letter, which should read July, not August. which was corrected before submitting it! I was clearly thinking of the deadline when I first typed it! 😅
Original video: ruclips.net/video/sUXh_T9EJ-U/видео.html
What if they sue me? ruclips.net/video/V9aY3R4K3vg/видео.html
How to beat it: ruclips.net/video/6RpAyRtr-2M/видео.html
I noticed that as well
☺️ I couldn’t concentrate as my eyes kept going back to the date with me telling self, have I got the dates wrong 🤪 rather worrying as I’ll be travelling to a family wedding for 1st Sept 😳
The notion that you need an app to date and time stamp evidence taken as a photo on your phone is nonsense. You're phone does that automatically and attaches a file to the photo with that information. That information is then easily accessible. I'd say that app is a bit of a con.
@@bugsygoo you say that, but one of the biggest problems clients have is lack of evidence.
Ah cool, I am glad you spotted it before sending.
I received a PCN for using a loading bay to unload equipment from my car into a theatre. The PCN stated that loading bay was for commercial vehicles only. I argued that I used the loading bay as a loading bay which is it's intended use and as I was using my car to carry out a professional engagement it was being used as a commercial vehicle (with the correct business insurance cover in place). My informal appeal was rejected, my formal appeal was rejected, the independent adjudicator found in my favour in about 45 seconds and stated that it was ludicrous that it wasn't rescinded earlier. The council has no incentive to rescind and every incentive to scare people into paying.
If the sign didn't specify the type of vehicle, it was clearly unenforceable. How it took three appeals is surely ludicrous.
Snap! If it doesn't state loading what or when they can't enforce it. I took 2 appeals to get mine over turned...
I got a ticket in my van in a loading bay and they said it was because I had to walk the pallets up the street I wasn't loading from the loading bay even though there wasn't a loading bay outside the bank.
The independent adjudicator isn't really separate as it gets paid by the parking companies.
Well done for your persistence!
My mate fell asleep at M1 services once and got a PCN for staying there for more than 2 hours. I wrote a letter on his behalf which read (in short): I just drove from Poland to your services location. Filled my car to the brim and ordered an espresso. Saw multiple signs saying tiredness can kill so decided to take a short nap which turned out to be longer than expected.
They replied with apologies and a £50 fuel voucher 🙂
That's fantastic! It encourages people staying off the roads when they're tired.
That’s good. 👍🏻
Well explained 🎉
Too good to be true…
@@celionegrelli9253 believe what you want 🤷♂️
Glad you got the justice you deserve on this occasion. Thank you for sharing your story.
"If this matter cannot be resolved at this stage, please consider this letter as a formal request to provide the necessary details for the matter to be escalated to an independent ajudicator" is well and truly the least aggressive way I've ever seen somebody say if you disagree with me I'll sue the crap out of you :')
Made me grin as well.
The person reading the letter probably thought 'Oh Flip' Haha
Yes, certain wording contained within the letter clearly indicated they were dealing with someone from the legal profession.
It was rather well worded.
@@richardkinghorn4729
As the old adage goes - “…. The pen is mightier than the sword ….” It was indeed well worded and succinct. Left the company in no doubt! lol
@@malaika2940 you don’t have to rant and rave to get what you want. Just be calm and use words in a way that leaves no doubt that they are in the wrong and if not sorted then face the consequences.
There’s no way they didn’t realize you work in the legal field after reading that.😂
I used to be a legal clerk, and writing letters (like that) is my super power!
I have a pretty good success rate, too, with BT, a private landlord, a lettings agency and a few more.
My late husband was a solicitor and I used to love reading letters he wrote. His use of language was fabulous 🙂
How could it be on the 28th Aug, 23. That’s what I call planning ahead.
i thought the same lol
Next time you go into the future to get a pcn.... can you get me the lottery numbers for that week
Clearly he drives a Delorean! 😂
How can you park and be doing 88mph at the same time?
Einstein proven correct again event horizon does exist did,the vehicle ever leave the car park?
I had a parking charge notice stating that I was not parked within 15 metres of a particular sign.
When asked for evidence of them physically measuring the distance they dropped the penalty charge. 😂
My disabled family member put the blue badge on the dash and parked at 12.15pm. The time dial slipped (they have shaky hands by the way) and was set at 12.30pm.
They only left the car for half an hour and came back. A ticket was issued. How desperate are these wardens? They must be starving.
They already know they are on shakey ground... The last thing they need is a barrister educating the public in real time over such scams
Oh you are so much more gracious than I, Mr BBB!
Doing something as a ‘gesture of good will’ when a person or company is clearly in the wrong really winds me up…
Sorry I punched you in the face, but as a gesture of good will I won't do it again.
@@DrWrapperband nice person.
It is said to avoid any implication that they accept your argument. This is an argument made to resolve their mistake, at a cost to you (in a hypothetical similar situation). It is allowed by law, but it is seriously disrespectful and displays the opposite of the goodwill they purport to. The law in the UK is insufficient to protect consumers from corporations wasting their time as a result of the corporation's failures, particularly as they are increasingly realising this and putting the burden of their poor work on individuals to reduce their own costs.
There needs to be governmental oversight of these companies and bogus Parking Charge Notices that are issued and successfully appealled need to be registered. These companies rely on intimidation and prey on the vulnerable to make their money from these Parking Charges.
Hi Peao9ui, what you suggest is a good idea much like western civilisation!, unless you insist on some major changes in the ways things are done here this regulatory body you speak of is unlikely to be any more effective than the ones we have now that are meant to keep an eye on privatised public utilities.
Cheers, Richard.
No, lawyers and barristers could easily write out templates for all this stuff that everyone could send in to court but they won't do that because they would then be out of a job.
That's already happening PRIVATE PARKING Act brings in a new Statutory Code of Practice and independent appeal service rather than the movable goalpost that is self regulation by parking companies and joke "independent" appeal services like POPLA and IAS which are paid for run by the parking company's own trade club to their own script.
.
U mean those bunch of criminals masquerading as a legitimate government thar clearly don't have our best interests at heart?
Already is the case since 2012. They need to be registered either with the BPA or the IPC (the two official bodies recognised by the government) and they need to follow some standard procedures. If the matter isn't resolved with the parking company the next step is to take it to the appeals process of these bodies (POPLA for BPA, and the less consumer-friendly IAS for IPC). Each time it's taken to the regulator appeal it costs them money so they're incentivised to resolve early. If they violate the rules or keep getting found to be in the wrong they can be suspended and have their access to the DVLA database cut off, as has happened to the notoriously incompetent UKPC a couple of times now.
A very amicable outcome all round. I’ve had a similar situation, where by I’ve replied courteously and promptly, offering due diligence with photographic documentation, time stamp etc, and had similar results. This was awhile ago, but a concise and anecdotal approach can, presumably put you in better stead. Congratulations 👍
Love all the wording that shows you know exactly what you want to say and how to say it, with references 😊
Happy for you. Job done!
I lost my appeal for a PCN because I spent to much time trying to find a ticket machine that worked. When this failed I tried to pay online and there was no connection. I then called them on the phone number on the ticket machine and they told me to leave the car park which I did. They also told me on the phone they were aware that the ticket machines weren’t working.
They said my appeal failed because I didn’t pay at a machine or online and had no evidence to prove it. I park services LTD are liars.
If what you say is true then tell them to piss off as they don't have a leg to stand on.
Do a Subject access request for a copy of the phone call, you could also evidence the online history and call logs with your mobile provider
Thanks Daniel. I watched your videos on this subject a couple of months ago. Then as luck would have it, I got a Parking Charge Notice in the post for not displaying my Blue Badge clearly.
I followed your advice and responded the same day. I used your letter as a guide to write my online appeal accompanied by photographic evidence. Im happy to say I was informed only yesterday that my appeal was successful. Thanks again Daniel for doing what you do to inform us mortals on how the system works.
Thanks for your 'goodwill' in sharing this Daniel, sir! I got a PCN some years ago at a pub car park, and despite entering the reg details into their tablet, I still received the "fine". I sent them a copy of a receipt and bank statement, along with a letter stating my charges for the admin time, effort and emotional distress for a nominal £10. Needless to say, I got two letters - one cancelling the PCN, and another very surly one saying, 'your "invalid invoice" has been rejected as we are not liable for any such payment'. That made me chuckle especially as it was Capita/ParkingEye.
Contract Law I think for any Invoice the Normal Place of Business and the VAT Reg Number (if VATable) and the company registration number (if Ltd company, names of propritors if not) must be included on any invoice order or other demand by the business.
I am a traffic management consultant, not a legal expert, but I do have some understanding of road traffic signs. All signs that intend to replay information to road users must comply with the TSRGD 2016 (as amended) and this applies to not only public highways but also to land to which the public has access. Such as car parks, ports and service stations. The car park signage does clearly not comply with these regs and I am sure that wafting these non-compliant signs in the vicinity of the car park has no merit or legal mert/standing as a result. I'd love to know if you as the Blckbelt Barrister would agree if this is true from your view. It's not possible to read the T's&C's from the vehicle and often I can't read it from standing right next to it as my eyesight wont allow it and they are frequently above my 6'4" head. All these companies are scammers, unethical and flout the law. I despise them. I have fought many and won, normally by avoiding dealing with them in the first place and deal directly with the land owners.
What are the regulations of font size etc? Is there case law on this?
I always contest them on signage and have never had to pay any of these leeches. Strange thing is, they never bother to amend any faulty signage.
How do you deal directly with landowners ???? Do you mean go direct to tesco or asda or whomever???? Confused motorist/ parker
Thank you so much.
Thank you sincerely.
A good illustration of being diplomatic in voicing an objection. An objection does not need to be offensive or otherwise demeaning of "the opposition". A reasoned argument often finds the Ear and prompts as in this case a ( re)consideration
There should be a law that if a parking warden issues a ticket which is later successfully revoked, whether by their employer or a court, then they get a fine for whatever the driver would otherwise have paid.
I bet that that would encourage them to make sure that the parking terms have indeed been breached and that there are no mitigating circumstances before the violation is “in the system.”
Great idea ☝️👍
I'd vote for that..
🇺🇸🙋🏻♀️🇺🇸Glad to hear the parking ticket was canceled and thank you for sharing your experience. It proves to be quite helpful. Several years ago a similar situation happened to my husband and I when we were in Manhattan, NY. In our case, we had to pay the fine along with a letter giving evidence of why we shouldn't have been ticketed. We responded later that day and also included pictures to bolster our point. We weren't too confidant that we would receive a refund, but thankfully a few months later, we received a check for the amount we had paid. If you are in the right, it is always best to respond as soon as possible with necessary photographs in a polite and respectful manner. Remember, you can always get more with honey than you can with vinegar. 😉🇺🇸🙋🏻♀️
'A gesture of goodwill' means that they are only too aware that they are onto a hiding and best to give this one a swerve. Well done and good suggestion to use your letter as a template.
I liked your letter, all points covered in a simple and courteous manner. If I had received the letter I would guess you had legal advice or training so that may have helped, now that you have offered the format for others it would be interesting to hear other people’s results.
I have been a paralegal for more years than I want to admit to. That said, as soon as you gave a cite for a case, they could have figured out you were a barrister. Good for you for standing up for yourself. There is a saying here in the states, if you don't ask you don't get. I don't cite cases but I do speak up if I think a company has treated me unfairly. Thank you for sharing.
Hi Daniel, Although you did not actually say "I'm a barrister and you have to listen to me" you did quote case law which might just have alerted the parking company to the fact that that they were dealing with with someone at least with knowledge of the law who would likely make a fuss. These companies are able to "strong arm" the ordinary Joe in the street because they are not aware of the law. Well done for illustrating the point...! 😊
good point.
in short "I'm not going to tell them I'm a barista - but I'm going to make them a damn good flat white and let them work it out themselves"
@@Derek_Garnham
😄
cheers, at least somebody gets it :)@@elainebutterworth8051
I should think that they would rather give this one a miss after reading your letter, well done
Good result ! But I wonder if they detected the iron hand in velvet glove ? Referral to previous case law and comments on unenforceable indemnity !
I received 3 PCNs while staying at a hotel as I was leaving & returning each day (I will not name the location or hotel). The hotel has underground parking &, as I had previously done on several prior visits, used the parking company's app to pay for parking. To cut a long story short, the parking company, since my previous visit a month earlier, had put a sticker on their notices, which I didn't look at, stating that vehicles had to be registered on the tablet in the hotel's reception. The reception staff at the hotel didn't ask if I had a car & if I was parked in the car park as well as not explaining that I had to register my car. In due respect to the parking company, & on sending them copies of my receipts for parking & proof I was staying in the hotel, they cancelled the PCNs as well as issuing an explanation to why they had been issued. On my next visit to the hotel in question, I mentioned what had happened & TBH the staff didn't care, which I find outrageous... However, the member of staff entered a PIN into a tablet, I entered my reg number & all was good
I recently visited someone at a retirement home, having been there many times. They recently introduced a tablet system so you have to register your vehicle. There has always been a book to sign in and write the vehicle registration as well as who you are visiting. I signed myself in, but didn't use the touch screen. The friend asked me if I put my car registration into the tablet screen, so I did as we were leaving within 5 minutes. So there was no issues.
My take here is check signage for any changes, even if you have been there before! Also some staff don't care, since it is not their problem. I always keep receipts and my dashcam footage. I sometimes take photos. Bank records also help. Most people don't, then have a hard time proving anything.
I would say that in these places there must be clear signage as you enter the building that you must input your car reg on the tablet. For example I've been to a restaurant where this is the case, and the tablet was clearly visible at the door
I had a family friend get a parking notice because I'd traced over a number on the date (these were hand written parking tickets) and they basically implied it was a previous ticket that I'd modified instead of writing a new one. Naturally I disputed this explaining that the pen was dry when I started writing the ticket so traced over the first number a couple of time to ensure it was legible and that I had a booklet of empty parking tickets (which I sent a picture of) so it wouldn't make any sense for me to reuse a ticket and finally that the date they were implying the ticket would have been from that the car wasn't parked in that car park.
So off it went to the 'judicator' with me feeling pretty confident there's no way that charge would stand up to scrutiny with the reasoning I've provided... and then the Judicator response came through that the charge was still valid and they'd increased the price from £60 to £100. After that I lost what little respect I had for parking companies and also lost significant faith in the UK justice system that has never recovered to this day. It would have been obvious to everyone involved that there was no tampering with that ticket like they had implied but they fined us anyway and the law sided with them. My understanding of law up to that point in my life was that it was the duty of the accuser/offence to prove that the defence was guilty of something but that case proved to me that it is often in fact the opposite and that the defence is guilty unless they can prove their innocence.
We hadn't tampered with the parking ticket, we'd complied with all the requirements of the parking ticket, we lacked any motive to tamper with the ticket. But the law found us guilty anyway and we had to pay the charge. All because I'd traced over a number a couple of times. Boils my blood just remembering it.
Was this an independent adjudicator, or the parking company's adjudicator? Seems like this was unfair and should have been reversed. Sounds like you didn't actually go to court over it though, which is possibly the only way of actually getting a fair decision sometimes.
I had a similar situation where I had some resident parking permits. You have to fill in the date you are parking and all good. One time I filled in the incorrect date (I lost track of days due to a bank holiday) and was issued a fine. I phoned them up and spoke to someone, pointed out that the permit had numerous unused rows on it, so there was no incentive for me to not have used the permit correctly. Their photo showed I had plenty of extra slots for additional days. Additionally the photo backed up my claim by showing that the most recent date on there was the day of the bank holiday when I wouldn't have needed a parking permit anyway. They accepted this was just an error in writing the date I was parked and agreed to cancel the fine :)
@@mattc3581 I think it was an independent judicator but it was so long ago I can't really remember. Yes we could have taken it further but, as I imagine they like to prey on, we just decided it wasn't worth the hassle.
Unfortunately the burden of proof in civil cases is quite different to criminal cases. The learned may correct me, but they don't need to prove beyond reasonable doubt that you made an unauthorised change to the permit, they just need to show on the balance of probability that you did.
@@tezinho81 All true, it is only balance of probability, ie more likely they are right than you. But if they have a photo of your windscreen with a permit with a date in it that looks correct and you had additional tickets available that would have cost you a minimal amount compared to the fine, it feels unlikely they would have convinced anyone that you were risking a big fine for not displaying a valid ticket when you could easily have done so.
@@mattc3581 Thanks for your reply. And yet they did sustain the fine at the appeal level; if you are correct, and I do not disagree, it would seem they are biased in favour of the parking company in that case. Irrespective of this I think it's manifestly unfair they increased the fine, they should have 'stopped the clock' on that and allowed the reduced fine seeing as it was appealed in good time and good faith.
There was no goodwill about it. They were caught trying to get away with it. I'd have had more respect for them if they'd owned up and apologised. As it is I still consider them scum
Love the reasonable Barrister quote. Superb lesson in how to be polite.
Its not rocket science being polite, LMAO, what a bunch of dopey lapdogs
What makes me angry is at my local supermarket, has signs saying rules of parking in the store car park, which runs by set private company, saying you only allow to park for two hours and don’t return for two hours (using APNR cameras), there are multiple signs saying don’t park on the double yellow lines if you do get fined set amount. People don’t take no notice of the signs and park on the double yellow lines. What’s make me angry is they willingly park there cars on are in front tactile pavement (both sides) making it hard to cross the road, as it difficult to see around the vehicles as sometimes they are high sided vans parked there. I told a member of the staff who works there who was very sorry it and the store is not happy about because of health and safety reasons.
Likewise number of times I see people parking in disabled bays, and taking up spaces for disabled people, because they don’t want to walk to far to do there shopping or get something to eat from fast food restaurants. I asked the stores can they do anything about it they said they cannot because it private car park.
I even once took a picture of building company van after they went into supermarket showing they are parked in disabled bay without blue badge, and send it to company (which seems like they do all car parks for different supermarkets etc) asking can they do anything about it, they said they cannot do anything about as they did not took the picture or saw the vehicle illegally parked in disabled bay.
I even saw a police car parked inside a disabled bay and two police officers got out and went to shop to get some food and coffee. I complained about it to the local police station and they said they would unable to do anything about (I can’t remember what they said) as many years ago.
'Unwilling' to do anything about it more like, as Police Officers never ( apparently) break the laws that they're paid to enforce. ( allegedly)
As much as I want you to resolve this parking matter as quickly as possible, the evil me was hoping the parking company would take its chances and challenge you in court. I would buy popcorn and watch all the videos to follow. All the best and well done for the quick resolution!
Must of got the Delorean up to 88mph and went Back to the Future.
Now he is just waiting for his speeding ticket! 😂
Having worked parking enforcement for our major local university, there's no way my partner or I would've presumed random papers on the seat would've been any of our business. Permits were a decal on a driver side window, a hangtag off the rearview mirror, or a department placard on the dash. Either you bothered to place it correctly, or you got a ticket. We had 13 lots to enforce across 3 miles, containing a couple thousand cars, and no time for hide and seek.
Our office would void the first ticket as a learning opportunity where they would explain where to put the permit, how to formally appeal, and where they were allowed to park in future.
You were in breach, and the office was being nice to you. You opined that perhaps the wind blew the permit down, but nowhere did you say you'd make sure it was more secure in future. And it reads like a lawyer wrote it.
"As a gesture of good will." More like they were shocked by someone using the proper language and could see they were clearly in the wrong and that things could get expensive if they had taken it further 😂
How to say you're a lawyer without saying you're a lawyer. He may not have said that he was a Barrister in the letter, but quoting case law and using legal language and arguments in the letter with evidence to justify the claims in the letter makes it clear that the letter was written by someone with a law background. (I wonder if they assumed he retained legal council to write the letter!) That said, it is good that the situation was resolved amicably.
It is a way they save face.
@@camellia8625 yep, it's their standard wording because they'll never admit that they were wrong.
"As a gesture of good will" is just a bog standard quote they use to refuse to admit they were wrong. I had a Penalty Charge Notice cancelled by an independent adjudicator as they were clearly in the wrong but still used that formula. Whether it is Parking Charge Notice or Penalty Charge Notice, it has become a part of a business model and admitting they were wrong would have a negative effect on their income. I found that even local authorities are very bullyish, use threatening language without the need for it, and try to give the impression that even if the PCN is unfair, paying is the best option to save the trouble of the appeal procedure.
It would be very difficult to prove, but clearly the intended purpose of Penalty/Parking Charges Notices which is often valid but in many cases, not the reason they are issued for.
Following up on what you said about the ulez charge in London I recently received a charge from Bristol for the same. I followed your advice, I genuinely didn't know I'd entered & definitely didn't know I was going to be charged! I haven't heard anything back! I know about London & I pay the charge, if I knew there was one I'd have avoided it or paid. Same as London there are no signs saying that you will be charged, just that you're entering a zone. Thanks for the advice! If I go again I will pay the charge but as I live in Lancashire & was visiting I doubt it will happen again. Thanks again 👍
I recently had a dispute with a main car dealer. I'm always polite but firm. I had all communications followed up by email, which helps. Before going legal, I phoned the MD of the company and had a long calm chat with him and it was resolved in 24hrs so no need to take it to court. Result 👍
I've always found that the further up a company hierarchy you go, the more likely it is that the person receiving the email is looking at it from the point of view of "why has this arrived on my desk (i.e. why has a minion not already dealt with this?)" and not "I need to do something to resolve this"
@@benedictarnold5376 Problem there is managers who don't realise they're just minions with a cap
In Scotland, they send unpaid parking charges to debt collectors. Plenty people in my circle ignore them however recently these charge letters have turned to debt collecting threats.
It's snowing! Yay! Free parking!
Whilst you didn't say you are a barrister your letter does give a pretty strong indication of solid legal knowledge though.
I'm just so disappointed that Al acting on behalf of said parking company did not reject your appeal when this had all the makings of a full series of uploads and maybe 2 full seasons of entertainment. Thanks BBB for showing us non legal types the way forward in terms of reacting to such situations.
heh. I could pretend they rejected me and act it out!
@@BlackBeltBarristerthat would make a good content actually
@@antyrak7905I'll have to give that some thought!
Agreed, maybe bbb should have written a letter like most people might have in lay man's language without a full knowledge of previous cases etc, seen where it went and then on court day submit all of the necessary information and watch them squirm !! 😂
Thrice, I've had this. Once in Cardiff when I parked next to an expensive BMW (turned out to be a bank manager's car which is why it was given preferential treatment), I had amazingly gone to buy my first digital camera from Dixons. Came round the corner and there was the traffic warden giving me a ticket, but not the BMW. I asked him to give the BMW one, he refused. Bank manager came out and had a chat and drove away. All the while I took lots of pictures and proved my case.
The second time was similar in many respects to yours but was in a Curry's owned car park. I had parked in a disabled bay and when I slammed the door, unbeknownst to me, the blue badge had slipped off the dash and onto the passenger seat, clearly visible with no effort at all. When I came out of the shop I removed the ticket and threw it away after taking a picture from where the over zealous and inattentive money-grabbing ticket issuer must have stood to place it on the windscreen, the blue badge, right-side-up, was totally visible. I sent off the picture which had the date and time in the corner, 10 minutes after the issue, told them to go to hell, I had demands and then letters threatening bailiffs for about nine months, threw them all in the bin, and never heard anything since.
Finally one from the vans that prowl our streets for income for the local council. I pulled into a bus stop in order to reverse into a place behind my car that was empty and clear of the bus stop, in order to visit my brother. I was surprised to have a notice a few days later telling me I owed £75. I sent off my refusal, told them I had the front and rear dashcam footage to show what I did that day, and I pointed out that they must have pictures (or video) immediately before the cherry-picked incriminating one, showing the empty space into which I intended to reverse when I pulled into the bus stop. Didn't pay.
Thank you. Glad to hear common sense prevailed. I would like to think the warden would be warned about his behaviour.
Wardens will be on bonus more tickets more money
Some years ago, I started a job which included a "golden hello" payment. Taxed of course. Things didn't work out, I resigned and the golden hello was repayable.
I claimed the repayment as a tax deduction. HMRC refused my claim. I wrote and explained why it was a tax deduction. HMRC wrote back and said it wasn't. I wrote back again and at great length explained why it was. HMRC accepted this. But I'm a former Tax Inspector and knew what I was talking about and obviously more than the people I was corresponding with.
So how many people, without my background and knowledge would have given in? Not claimed, never mind argued against two refusals of the claim?
But as you say, I never once in my correspondence mentioned my background. Arguments stand and fall on the law, not who is making the argument.
I'm pretty sure they worked out who they were dealing with because parking companies normally reject the first appeal out of hand.
Or perhaps it was the reasonable approach? Perhaps we’ll never know! 😅
@@BlackBeltBarrister They probaby don't want to run the risk of having the signage challenged
I've successfully challenged PCNs - the only ones I haven't contested were the ones where I realised after the fact that I'd misread the signage or accidentally overstayed in a spot. Which were all on me.
I don't make it a habit to go around collecting PCNs! It's a horrible feeling to see that bright yellow thing on your windscreen...
I'm having issues at the moment. The company that manages the land and parking at a petrol garage are threatening to take me to court because of me parking. The problem was I wasn't parked and all they have is a picture of me driving out. So far no proof and the threats continue.
The problem I have with the 'good will' assertion is that when laws are being applied based on an individuals 'generosity' rather than the actual facts then it opens the door for unfair application. In your case I suspect it was that they guessed your background but most people would not have been so Lucky. I received a fine after driving through Cardiff a few years ago for driving down a busses only road (NOT a bus lane). I paid the fine but sent Cardiff council a letter telling them that the sign they had posted to identify the lane was not visible from within a car. I sent screen shots from my dash cam along with the video for that part of the journey which clearly showed that the sign was Not visible. They replied by stating that the sign was 'legal' because it was below the maximum height allowed for road signs. While this is true the height the sign was placed is normally what would be used on a motorway and not in a town. Either way they know it cannot be seen but continue to issue fines which as far as I am concerned makes this a scam by Cardiff council.
Thanks for the warning about Cardiff council, I will make sure I never go to Cardiff.
It's not just Cardiff. There are plenty of bus only roads, and some are poorly sighted. Then there are the 'school roads' where vehicles have no access during opening and closing times, unless with permit.
Don't go to London either!
I won a similar appeal against a PCN to cut to the chase i took a photo of the rules or contract board placed above the thicket machine and on the board it stated i had to entre my Vehicle registration details before purchasing the parking ticket so i did. I got all the correct letters and numbers but 2 of them were in the wrong order poor typing on my part I won because it didn't say on the board has displayed on my Vehicle canceled on good will. And before anyone says it wasn't my vehicle reg on the ticket then, well to coin a phrase it was all the right notes not necessarily in the right order 😆
‘Furthermore’… ‘Oh God, we’re dealing with a Barrister’ 😂
I received a parking charge notice last week, they got the town wrong, I’v never been to that town, and the time over was 28 minutes, so it’s £100 for 28 minutes.
I’v appealed, but I’m happy to see it go to court.
I'm both glad and saddened to hear this was cancelled. I have a feeling this would have been an amazing journey to hear if they took you to court haha! Congratulations on what is the right outcome.
Having been the owner of both early model classic Minis, & some other old cars, there are occasions where balancing a permit (or ticket since they stopped making them self-adhesive) on the virtually non-existent dashboard is impossible. I routinely place such permits/tickets on the drivers seat in such circumstances. Even in the case where a sign explicitly stated that it should be displayed on the dashboard, I suspect they'd have trouble making such a term hold up if the car doesn't have a suitable dashboard to do so. Fortunately, to date, I haven't run into problems.
metadata on the camera from your phone will give you time and position location at the time the picture was taken insurance company's use it all the time for things that have gone missing and you send them a picture they can tell if the picture was taken before or after the fact
on a similar vein i had been parking the same car park for months, during lockdown there was a consible cue and it was teeming it down ,i left the park and went to buy a coffee on returning i paid the full amount for the day which was geo tagged by the bank, day location ect, received the parking charge notice week's later, replied and sent them a copy of the statement, three years later they are still chasing me
I got to respect your ability to make an 18 minute video which culminates in a two sentence response. 😂
I had a parking penalty notice some years ago when as a health care worker I visited a client within a group of flats. Us carers had to go to flat to collect permit then return to car and then go and collect and return to client, which can be problematic. I entered flat eventually and returned to car with in 12 minutes to find parking notice. I’ve been battling this for years
I was once sat in my car as i had just parked up. Along comes the yellow peril and slaps a ticket on the windscreen. I mentioned this to her without avail. I just happened to know her boss (my brother in law) and phoned himso she could hear. She was fired on the spot. That is what i call justice, it seems she was known for slapping ti kets on innocent cars
If you are still in your vehicle, technically you are not parked, just waiting.
@@ukinvasion2012Eh, I'm not so sure about that one. I believe (hopefully BBB or another lawyer can confirm) that they're required to give you five minutes grace period to move.
There is such a parking contravention as "no waiting" it's quite common. You don't need to have left the vehicle and gone off for a lovely meal at Quags to be in contravention. @@ukinvasion2012
I don't believe this story. Everyone who is employed has certain employment rights that include when / how they can be dismissed, and summary dismissal can only be done under very severe circumstances, which this does not sound like. I shall have to say that I find this kind of nastiness rather unsettling, and the boasting about hurting someone like that .........
BBB, Brilliant ! Congratulations too ! It will be interesting to see If this parking company changes the wording on any future Parking Permits, as to the Proper Placement. Thanks for the update.
28th August 2023^^.....are you from the future 😮
...to get a date so obviously wrong from a Barrister is unforgivable.
Haha, it was just the draft copy 😜
@@BlackBeltBarrister That would not stand up in court 😆
One of the arguments wardens use is the parking tickets not been displayed on the dashboard but the signs put up in the parking are
never stipulate this
Nice one about the date Daniel, as a retired Technical Author it is all too easy to get a minor thing through the proofreading process, I sympathise as someone who has done exactly the same!
hehe yes - that's why I always check before submitting things. I also unsend emails to re-check more times that I feel comfortable admitting 😂
'than' I feel comfortable admitting
@@michaeldale6560hard to tell if that was an actual mistake or jesting to keep folk like yourself on your toes on this comment
@@michaeldale6560 At least here we are seeing semi-legally worded letters for free, so these odd errors can be forgiven.
Good result - many years ago I had a similar case but in my case I purchased a P&D ticket and put it on my dashboard - but stupidly upside down. I appealed it asking for lenience given I had paid and this was a genuine error. They also revoked the PCN.
Also had one even further back when I parked in a meter bay with the correct change for the meter. This was a mixture of £1 coins and 50p pieces. This was at the time when the new 50p had been introduced and the old one was no longer legal tender - but the meter had not been updated to take the new 50p coins so I wasn't able to use the change I had. So I left a note on the dash to this effect. Got back to the car to find a ticket so I appealed stating the reason being that I was unable to pay as their meter hadn't been updated. They replied saying it was incumbent on the motorist to have the appropriate change for the meter. Funnily enough, when I replied saying it was unreasonable of the council to expect motorists to carry and use illegal tender because they had not updated their meters - the charge was revoked. A very satisfying (albeit minor) victory.
You're far more understanding than I am! My darling wife adopts your approach whereas I go for the balls and the jugular at the same time! My view is that it forces them to fight on two fronts which, as a certain Corporal Hitler found out, is not a good idea!
@BlackBeltBarrister I've just received a "Penalty Notice" from APCOA Parking, which I've immediately appealed against, using many of the tips from your videos, thank you! The circumstances are such that the signage can only really be read properly once you have driven past an entry camera; payments can only be made by an 'app' or by phone; there is poor to no mobile (02) network coverage in the area and no public telephone. I was assured that could pay later in the day, which I did, but got a PN anyway. I am happy to put everything into Proofify if you wanted to use it for anything, but otherwise no point at present, as I am fairly confident that they will cancel the notice. I wonder how many people would just pay it though... Thanks. Mike
Even though you did not specifically state you are a barrister, you kind of told them that by writing the letter as though you are submitting it to a court, I.E. citing a legal case that a general member of the public would not know about and pointing out the invalidity of the costs awarded on an indemnity basis being included in a contract! That letter practically screams "I AM A BARRISTER, TAKE ME SERIOULSY!" lol
On the adjudicator's website there are archives of past cases. If you're willing to do some reading, you can cite a case that fits your appeal.
@@Curvesohyeah And who would know to look there? Law nerds and BARRISTERS! 🤣
Glad you got the win. I've had a couple of similar wins, and they used the same 'gesture of goodwill' phrase, which I find incredibly patronising. It seems like companies just refuse to admit they made a mistake nowadays.
Great result, speaking as someone who has won a similar argument in the past. I am curious as to how the ticket was issued on the 28th August 2023 given today is 9th August 2023. Oops!
Typo on the draft 😂
Having just got to the letter showing the information challenging the PCN, it appears to have occurred in the future. If you are holding them to the letter of the law, can they not simply dismiss your letter as gaving not yet occurred as the date is in the future?
I am surprised by this, although it's not unknown for parking companies to monitor social media, they may have seen your videos. If something like this happens to you again it may be better to wait until it's decided before posting rather than give away your game plan. Anyway, good result! More people need to challenge these pseudo-invoices.
I work on a retail park where the car park is monitored by anpr cameras. After 8.30pm the parking time is limited to 10 minutes even through the shops are open until 9pm. There is also a burger king open until 11pm. They must be raking in the money.
Good result - although I was looking forward to more of a battle 🙂. I find the term 'a gesture of goodwill' annoying, I understand why they include it, but now and again it wouldn't hurt to admit they got it wrong. My only other observation is that although you didn't mention your legal credentials any one with half a brain cell would deduce that you had more than a passing knowledge of the law! Thanks for allowing your reply to be stand as a template.
Couldn't have said it any better 👏 💯
I was going to say just this myself too. Doing the right thing cannot be seen as a gesture of goodwill. They were in the wrong, they made a mistake, this isn't goodwill to me either.
I could pretend they took me to court and act it out 😂
The council let me off for a ticket because I told them It was an emergency and I was collecting an inhaler from the chemist.
I am surprised that you have been able to foresee that you going to get a parking charge notice on the 23rd August and be able to predict the weather will be good!
haha yes.. moral of the story - proofread before sending.
I was going to say something about this but your comment wins 👍🏻
First thing I noticed on the letter and mused to myself mmm Daniel can predict the future, nice spot
@@BlackBeltBarrister I am deeply anticipating the good weather your letter promises, sadly we don't seem to have formed a contract, so I can't hold you liable if it rains 🤣😂🤣
Or even the 28th of August.
tda2806, you should proof read your comment before commenting. Lol 🤣🤣
Glad this turned out in your favour and thank you for suggesting others use the wording if they were caught up in a similar situation 👍👋
Well done BBB. I parked incorrectly in my local hospital car park in my way to an an appointment. A few weeks later I got a demand from a recovery company for the full penalty. of £140. I did not get a pcn in my car, I did not get a letter from the car park company offering me the usual early payment ‘discount.’ I explained this to the recovery company and sent them a check in payment at the early payment level of £70. Their form letters make it clear any negotiation will not be dealt with and they refuse to acknowledge my letters, let alone respond to me in any way or acknowledge my offer cheque. Have I a case?
Shocker. Barrister gets an overturn whilst I myself, a non-barrister has been unsuccessful in a damaged vehicle claim due to potholes and subsequent appeal. *😂
*Smiley face added for ‘great British humour’ but inwardly I’m fuming.
i bought a pay and display ticket and stuck it to the inside windscreen on a hot day. i got a parking ticket/enforcement notice for failing to display a tiicket.the ticket had fell off the screen due to the heat melting the glue and it was curled up on the dashboard,but i took a photo and it was visable if you looked at the correct angle.i also took a photo of the ticket layed flat and sent an email and both photos to the local council.they retracted the fine and sent me a nice plastic parking ticket wallet that i could use next time
I’m sorry, but you have the date in the future, it’s only the 9th of August 2023 now and yet you say in you letter the charge was 23/8/23 and I assume the letter was sent on the 23/7/23. Accuracy my dear boy, accuracy.
I received a PCN some years ago after holidaying in Newquay. I argued that the sign clearly stated that “Parking charges apply from 08:30 to 22:30 everyday of the week. I had parked my car at 20:35, paid for two hours. I returned to my car at 22:47, leaving the car park at 22:50 ( the company use video cameras to see time of entering and leaving,,, clue ) ) My initial appeal ( to the company, naturally failed, so I appealed to the independent adjudicator, where my appeal was upheld. The adjudicator said that their signage could be much clearer ( bigger lettering) and that the hours where parking was charged for, were the only times the company could legally charge for.
Store your evidence with Proofify: proofify.app/
Note: July, not August!
Original video: ruclips.net/video/sUXh_T9EJ-U/видео.html
What if they sue me? ruclips.net/video/V9aY3R4K3vg/видео.html
How to beat it: ruclips.net/video/6RpAyRtr-2M/видео.html
Thank you, interesting video. I will say though that although you did not proclaim your Barrister status, your syntax did indeed proclaim you to be a Barrister. I could definitely detect a windy cushion response from the party involved. 😂
I am glad you cleared that up, I was begining to think that it was a some legalistic time warp thing.
You don't think that your letter might make you sound like a Barrister, and scared them off?
I won a polite argument with London Borough of Lambeth parking enforcement team as I had asked 2 members of their team if I was ok parked and they said yes, I asked if they train them in the art of entrapment. I was also with my dad in Nottingham and we parked and a Police man we met walking away asked about the car then mentioned we had parked on double yellow lines and no loading stripes, we looked and looked at each other then said pardon and he said no they have been tarmacked over???? We moved just in case!!!
I received one of these a few years ago. This was for parking with a trailer . We had paid for the parking and the parking ticket was placed on the dashboard. I had checked the parking cost beforehand and in the parking price list there was no mention of parking fees for car with trailer ! So I went back to the signage and checked ,lo and behold , in a tiny square about 8” x6” was the cost of parking with a trailer . So I appealed and the charge was cancelled . I have not returned to the town since so have no idea if it has been changed
I wonder if someone in their office watches your channel on You Tube😂😂
Am i wrong here but that letter says the parking ticket was issued on the 28th August 2023. How can you park in the future as it is the 10th August 2023 today? At Least the parking company got the date of PCN correct later on in the video.
Please take it further. Recover your time & costs regardless of how small.
I appealed a parking ticket last year due to unclear signage. Parkingeye refused my appeal so I appealed to the ombudsman and it got overturned. I was very happy with this as I had looked for signs to say I couldn’t park there and I saw none. I would’ve felt very aggrieved to have had to pay the fine, and would not have been able to afford to take it to court.
This is an advert advertising his app, nothing less, we see right through it
Sorry bbb truth hurts
Aaah yes. I can see what you're saying. He deliberately left his permit on his seat, in order to get a PCN, and subsequently use it to advertise his app. Devious!
@@Mikeyt171163 not counted how many times he plugs his app ?
Dear lord you are a Arse hat aren't you ?
Any circumstance fits with a barrister, what circumstance fits you ?
I'm not going to tell them I'm a barrister. Includes specific related cases to indicate he is in the business anyway.
I hope you sent the parking company an invoice for the time spent by you as a barrister arguing that the parking charge was wrong.
The great thing about videos is you can skip through the waffle and get to the interesting bit easily.
Yes, he did take the mickey with our patience making us wait 15:00. And the cherry on top was the posed "shocked" pic for the thumbnail. No shame 🤷♂
Imagine asking this bloke if he wants a cup of tea. "Have you established that there is reasonable evidence that I am displaying a desire for a cup of tea? I put it to you that you have not. Furthermore, have you established the time elapsed since I last consumed a cup of tea? These are the two predominant questions that must be answered, and I assert that you have failed to conduct either requisite observation.
They must have been saying, “ who is this guys lawyer “ ?
I got my very first PCN this October (2023). I just paid it as I don't want to deal with that negativity. But I honestly believe that the law on this must change. It was a genuine mistake-yet, legally, it is my fault. If the law in this country lets a burglar, child groomer walk away with no proper punishment, why can't they be a bit flexible on someone who makes a mistake which doesn't cost anyone an additional money? Demanding £100 for a missed parking payment is unreasonable. They should have sent a letter reminding to make the missed parking payments + maybe some admin charge for the letter/logistics. But £100 penalty isn't proportional to the offence if it is an offence.
It’s always good to hear of a parking charge notice being cancelled. My daughter has received at least four of these PCN’s at different shops, including retail parks.
In our experience, you should always contact the largest shop you went at that site and apologies for your overstay at there shop, and ask if they can help to have it cancelled.
In all of my daughters cases, this action has resulted in all of these PCN’s being cancelled.
Ah, that's why I can never find a space
A few years back I got a parking fine for parking outside my flat in a marked parking bay but the markings were faded (but still visible). I argued against the fine, sending photographs of my car parked in the bay and with the faded parking bay markings visible in the photos. They rejected my appeal. I then got in contact with the local council an sent them the evidence by email, and the council guy rejected that appeal.
So I ended up having to pay a fine for parking in a marked parking bay outside my home.
Fines are theft.
A member of the local council is issuing tickets unjustly on the street where I live. The signage is ambiguous and the section of road where these tickets are being issued has no restrictions. There has been a bit of back and forth with the company and their responses are as ambiguous as the signage. How or who can I contact (legal entities) to fight this? How do I get the signage reclassified or made clearer?
Thanks
Try your local councillors or mp
Dartford Crossing charge & fine for paying beyond the 48 hours. I got the fine & attempted to pay (I had paid after around 50 hours). There was no option to just pay the fine. I wrote a very polite letter requesting a method to simply pay the fine. They quashed the fine. The letter was worth my time.
Putting the permit on the seat is clearly not correct as the dashboard is always stipulated.
I have had a permit on the dashboard not seen and a ticket issued! It was cancelled on appeal.